Although I am not a socialist, certainly not a Marxist, I believe strongly in fairness, economic, political, and social. The reason I believe Putin, Chavez, etc. get such bad press is that they are not in the loop, but on the contrary, represent barriers to the international oligarchy’s aim to rule the world. I’m married to a Latin American. I’ve lived in Latin America and Latins know what the word oligarchy means. Latin leaders know what’s really going on at the level of the international oligarchy, too, while most American’s have no clue. Putin understands this as well.

Even Castro, for whom I have no great admiration, was essentially forced into Soviet hands because it was either that or play along with the international oligarchy, the local brand against which he had fought a difficult but successful guerrilla war. Some even justify his heavy-handed dictatorship as the only way to guarantee against a coup organized against him at the international level. The same argument has been made for others like him.

I think there is at least an element of truth in this. It seems to me that it would indeed be very difficult to protect the goals for which such leaders fought from intrigue organized internationally with every conceivable technological and socio-political device available aimed at upsetting their applecart, with cost being no object. Of course, if you’ve been a victim of terrible personal injustice at the hands of such leaders as Castro, as many of our Cuban compatriots have been, this kind of thinking doesn’t go down easily.

Of course I agree that injustice is never justified. The words themselves make the irony clear. The means don’t justify the ends in my book. The world unfortunately doesn’t function according to this ideal, however.

#91749 by DWAYNE on 8/02 at 12:52 pm: “...This President is completely out of touch with the WORLD, and how America should represent itself internationally.  His agenda is obvious (oil, and make his cronies rich & distract the nation while doing it) ......The sad part is, he knows that (his) congress will not impeach him or question his dictatorship control of our legislature.  Let alone will they (congress) address his belief that the law does not apply to him and his Executive Branch .......What goes around comes around and we Americans will eventually pay with another terrorist attack against us by homegrown or foreign groups.  I hope the world will forgive us for his short sighted behavior and illegal deeds....”

Maybe not another terrorist attack as a result, DWAYNE, or maybe, but no, the world will not forgive the USA. It can’t all be blamed on one person, either. Governments around the world are now working to end the “American century”. It’s simply all too expensive to continue with into the future.

Climate-change is the new imperative and investing in replacing and upgrading infrastructure is taking over from ridiculous military adventures as a means of profit-making. As far as the oil was concerned, though, that is making Russia and Nigeria and Venezuela rich in the meantime, too.

Maybe “congress will not impeach him or question his dictatorship” is coming to an end shortly too. At present, they are still their own worst problem, though. When they finally realise that screaming about Iraq or Iran is becoming increasingly irrelevant, it could already be too late, as you suggest.

Forever manufacturing reasons to divert peoples’ attention from problems at home instead of working diligently and conscientously to resolve them leaves everybody running out of time to be able to find and apply the necessary solutions. Hurricane Katrina was an example - and more will follow. The bridge collapse in Minnesota is another small symptom of a larger problem.

Re: #90784 by cyrena -

Thanks, Cyrena. It’s refreshing to know there are some level-headed, rational human beings left on the planet. I get pretty fed up sometimes with some of the ridiculous, indiscriminate reading and so-called reasoning concerning it that goes on in some of these comments. It’s pretty amazing sometimes...people with so-called education who have a lot of information stuffed in their heads with no real knowledge of even the most basic elements of how to process it for anything approaching reliably valid results.

#90759 by straight_talk_11 on 7/29 at 8:10 pm: “...What I said in your quote of my post stands on its own merit. I’m not defending what any body said ......objective reading of an article .....anything else is just “I said, you said” ......the post to which I’m responding. I choose to bow out of this stupidity and let others judge the merits of an utterly simple observation I made in the post you so unsuccessfully aspire to criticize...”

Oh, I see - you are a lawyer! Then, you do “have a profound intellectual problem” ...and a more basic and typical professional problem, duh.

#90759 by straight_talk_11 on 7/29 at 8:10 pm

• ….”I’m putting in a vote for objective reading of an article and the ability to discriminate between junk and integrity in journalism.”…

I ditto the above, since that’s what we’re trying to do here. And, I thank you straight_talk, for doing that. This is even better…

• Yours is a more basic and typical human problem: you have a world view that you retrofit with heavy boots into whatever you read to make it confirm whatever you think. Most people do that. Even when your world view is correct, that sucks. It undercuts your credibility and confuses others who are equally inept at constructing an intelligent analysis

I say that because, MOST people do – do this. And, it has created tons of confusion. That’s why we have to keep the focus on the straight talk, and intellectual analysis.

And, we have to encourage each other to avoid doing what most people do – this retrofitting and re-writing of history, (or current facts) to fit whatever it is that we read elsewhere, or would prefer to believe, for whatever the reasons.

Douglas Chalmers:

I refer you to #89615, my first post on this article, for a succinct summary of my political thoughts regarding the current administration and its agenda.

Re: #90753 by Douglas Chalmers -

What I said in your quote of my post stands on its own merit. I’m not defending what any body said, Catholic or otherwise. I’m putting in a vote for objective reading of an article and the ability to discriminate between junk and integrity in journalism.

Anything else is just “I said, you said”, which is exactly what you’re promoting with the post to which I’m responding. I choose to bow out of this stupidity and let others judge the merits of an utterly simple observation I made in the post you so unsuccessfully aspire to criticize:

“...[the bishops] saying that if you’re going to violate our principles, then don’t kill it if it’s almost all human is vastly different from ‘calling’ for such a thing.”

If you really can’t tell the difference, then you have a profound intellectual problem, but I don’t think that’s really it. Yours is a more basic and typical human problem: you have a world view that you retrofit with heavy boots into whatever you read to make it confirm whatever you think. Most people do that. Even when your world view is correct, that sucks. It undercuts your credibility and confuses others who are equally inept at constructing an intelligent analysis.

I don’t think the ends justify the means, even when I agree with you. Regarding your apparent conclusions about my political leanings, either you haven’t read my other posts or your reading comprehension is even worse than I’ve given you credit for.

#90740 by straight_talk_11 on 7/29 at 6:01 pm: “...You read it. I already read it. The headline is a goofball distortion, and your quote, completely out of context...”

You can’t seem to even handle it straight from the Catholic church’s website - and you have the temerity to call your self “straight_talk 2”. You obviously have an agenda to peddle and touting your approval or disapproval of particular commenters appears to be part of your MO.

My reason pertained to what games the Neocons and their Fascist friends around the world are scheming next. Obviously you don’t want to know - or don’t want anyone to know. Or, are you a Catholic as well as a GOP? The blogs here exist either with you or without you.

Mike Mid-City re #90695:

Good post. I addressed the sincerity of Bush’s “religious” leanings, or lack of it, already in my post #89615. Add to that his one-time admission that he’s a member of the exclusive Skull and Bones Society, which every year holds a celebration with its roughly 800 members worldwide in which they simulate human sacrifice to Molech, an ancient mythological god to whom people sacrificed their children. I suppose that’s supposed to be all in fun, but I wonder how the religious right would view that if they could ever bring themselves to believe it about their wonderful paper doll president they practically idolize themselves because he’s for gun control, capital punishment, and against abortion.

It’s amazing to me that all one has to do to subvert our entire democracy is tell a bunch of fundamentalists that you’re one of them and agree with some of their pet issues.

Johnny Doughey re #89779:
I don’t think Bush’s sacrifice of his reputation is either intentional or martyrdom. He’s just doing what he was put in place to do. Neither those who put him there nor he have anything to lose in terms of reputation at this point and the “master” players don’t care about Bush’s reputation. They’re just going to go for their agenda no matter what unless we stop them by taking our government back. I just talked with a very smart information technology guy who works for Bank of America and he still believes there was a connection between Hussein and Al Qaeda. As long as enough of these smart but completely duped types are around, we’ve got problems.

Douglas Chalmers;

You read it. I already read it. The headline is a goofball distortion, and your quote, completely out of context, is also a goofball distortion. I don’t like what they said either, but saying that if you’re going to violate our principles, then don’t kill it if it’s almost all human is vastly different from “calling” for such a thing. Their principles prohibit such a thing. Anybody who can read knows that. So the headline is grossly misleading, and if you don’t agree with that, your reading comprehension is nil and so is your ability to place things in proper context and discriminate cheap pulp news from news with some semblance of journalistic integrity.

#90680 by blog dog on 7/29 at 1:10 pm: “==== It’s about way more than profits, commissions and kickbacks on arms sales — hyper-weaponizing the Middle East whilst the amount of terror surges lends massive support to the analysis pointing to a planned virtually endless Global War Of Terror and Global Torture Gulag, further terrorizing the entire world, designed to become so thoroughly terrorized, virtually everyone, everywhere is expected to fall on bended knee and beg the New World Oligarchy to “Keep the Peace” the world over...while forestalling the collapse of the perto-arms-drugs dollar....”

They still intend to keep the remaining Palestinian Arabs (and Christians) desperately suffering and under never-ending duress .....to show how awful they really are and how Israel must keep them pesky A-rabs under control. Check the poor children of Palestine http://poetryforpalestine.spaces.live.com/

#90649 by Goffredo on 7/29 at 11:50 am: “...Frodo failed ....Bush has the ring....”

Yes, courtesy of the church, Goffredo. more like the Chimera, but ....Of The Rings of Power and the Third Age ......the War of the Last Alliance, in which Elves and Men.....

Arrested development!?!? .....in the Utopian state...... BRAVE NEW WORLD - Aldous Huxley (1932)

“Community, Identity, Stability” is the motto of Aldous Huxley’s utopian World State. Here everyone consumes daily grams of soma, to fight depression, babies are born in laboratories, and the most popular form of entertainment is a “Feelie” - a movie that stimulates the senses of sight, hearing, and touch. Though there is no violence and everyone is provided for, Bernard Marx feels something is missing and senses his relationship with a young woman has the potential to be much more than the confines of their existence allow. Huxley foreshadowed many of the practices and gadgets we take for granted today--let’s hope the sterility and absence of individuality he predicted aren’t yet to come.......

“I shall begin at the beginning,” said the D.H.C. and the more zealous students recorded his intention in their notebooks: Begin at the beginning. “These,” he waved his hand, “are the incubators.” And opening an insulated door he showed them racks upon racks of numbered test-tubes. “The week’s supply of ova. Kept,” he explained, “at blood heat; whereas the male gametes,” and here he opened another door, “they have to be kept at thirty-five instead of thirty-seven. Full blood heat sterilizes.”............

–"the operation undergone voluntarily for the good of Society, not to mention the fact that it carries a bonus amounting to six months’ salary”; “Bokanovsky’s Process,” repeated the Director, and the students underlined the words in their little notebooks. One egg, one embryo, one adult-normality. But a bokanovskified egg will bud, will proliferate, will divide. From eight to ninety-six buds, and every bud will grow into a perfectly formed embryo, and every embryo into a full-sized adult. Making ninety-six human beings grow where only one grew before. Progress. “Essentially,” the D.H.C. concluded, “bokanovskification consists of a series of arrests of development. We check the normal growth and, paradoxically enough, the egg responds by budding.”

“My good boy!” The Director wheeled sharply round on him. “Can’t you see? Can’t you see?” He raised a hand; his expression was solemn. “Bokanovsky’s Process is one of the major instruments of social stability!” “Ninety-six identical twins working ninety-six identical machines!” The voice was almost tremulous with enthusiasm. “You really know where you are. For the first time in history.” He quoted the planetary motto. “Community, Identity, Stability.” Grand words. “If we could bokanovskify indefinitely the whole problem would be solved.” Solved by standard Gammas, unvarying Deltas, uniform Epsilons. Millions of identical twins. The principle of mass production at last applied to biology............. http://www.huxley.net/ and click pic for links

“Universal happiness keeps the wheels steadily turning; truth and beauty can’t........” http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/bravenew/

RE: #90654 by Douglas Chalmers on 7/29 at 12:05 pm — $20-billion in arms sales to S.Arabia...$30-billion in arms (military aid for free) to Israel...$13-billion in the next decade for Egypt....”. Who is kidding who? Its all about the money!!!”

======= It’s about way more than profits, commissions and kickbacks on arms sales — hyper-weaponizing the Middle East whilst the amount of terror surges lends massive support to the analysis pointing to a planned virtually endless Global War Of Terror and Global Torture Gulag, further terrorizing the entire world, designed to become so thoroughly terrorized, virtually everyone, everywhere is expected to fall on bended knee and beg the New World Oligarchy to “Keep the Peace” the world over...while forestalling the collapse of the perto-arms-drugs dollar.

#90604 by jbart on 7/29 at 8:03 am” “...His Presidential Legacy?? What a joke!!...”

Includes $20billion in arms sales to S.Arabia (on top of what they are buying from Britain yet accusing them of wanting to buy their the US’s evil products...... as well as $30billion in arms (military aid for free) to Israel to help them to “still have supremacy over the Arab states”. At the same time, Israel is mouthing that arming S.Arabia is helpful in deterring Iran!

Meanwhile “The United States also is preparing a package of military assistance worth some $13 billion in the next decade for Egypt....”. Who is kidding who? Its all about the money!!! http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN28341491

#90468 by straight_talk_11 on 7/28 at 3:07 pm: “...First, the headline is grossly misleading and the quote is not only taken totally out of context, but it itself is grossly misleading as well. This is like the end of a long gossip chain that ends up distorting the facts to the point of becoming unrecognizable. Read the rest and some of the more informed comments, to wit...”

Read it for yourself at the Catholic website online, ‘straight_talk_11’ - dodging the main issue, they agreed by default!

“..."In particular, it should not be a crime to transfer them, or other human embryos, to the body of the woman providing the ovum, in cases where a human ovum has been used to create them,” the bishops said...... However, they said, “at very least, embryos with a preponderance of human genes should be assumed to be embryonic human beings and should be treated accordingly,” they said......” http://catholiconline.com/international/international_ story.php?id=24515

Frodo failed.

Bush has the ring.

the 1Sgt:

Yes, there will be. And yes, including GWB. He just does whatever some other idiot who is not completely inarticulate tells him to do.

There’s a dumb new quiz show on CBS called The Power of Ten, and in their ads one of the questions is:

“What percentage of Americans think they’re smarter than President Bush?”

They don’t give the answer in the ad, but I bet it’s pretty high and probably roughly correct.

#90463 by cyrena on 7/28 at 2:42 pm
(550 comments total)

There will however, always be dumb asses with degrees.

=======================================================

Like GWB?

Right again, Cyrena. I did not intend to denigrate all with advanced degrees. Obviously some did well, and must confess myself that I have an advanced degree. I just noticed, as have you, that the degree in itself doesn’t tell anything like the whole story. I had some real bozos for colleagues in graduate school and they graduated with high marks, their utter incompetence notwithstanding.

“The Roman Catholic Church has called for women to be allowed to give birth to human-animal hybrids created in the laboratory ...”

- Douglas Chalmers quoting Timesonline

First, the headline is grossly misleading and the quote is not only taken totally out of context, but it itself is grossly misleading as well. This is like the end of a long gossip chain that ends up distorting the facts to the point of becoming unrecognizable. Read the rest and some of the more informed comments, to wit:

“The headline is misleading. The RCC still opposes *creating* these embryos - very strongly. But it has announced that if these embryos are created dispite [sic]its objections, then its anti-abortion views are still in effect, and the embryo should be carried to term rather than be discarded as medical waste...”
- Suricou Raven, London, London

Straight Talk,

I believe you on this.

*....."he majority of PhD’s working to solve this problem attempted to solve it by TRIAL AND ERROR!!!!

And, that IS one way to learn some things...just NOT this problem.

I witness these same things all of the time, and I have to tell you, I live (and work) in a University environment, and I’m not even gonna tell you some of the stuff I see and hear. It would be terribly distressing.

On the other hand, we DO have some good thinkers around, and many others have great potential.

There will however, always be dumb asses with degrees.

Quoting Cyrena:

“...there are some incredibly DUMB ASS people walking around, with advanced degrees of all flavors.”

Amen, sister!
: )

A PhD in cognitive psychology, a notable exception to the above quote from you, once told me something very interesting. She cited a study with a very large sample, solid experimental design, and strong statistical methods. It showed that something like 60% (I forget the exact percentage, but it was a significant majority) of PhD’s in this country had not advanced to Piaget’s highest level of cognitive development, the ability to employ abstract reasoning.

For example, they had to sort a set of rings of graduated size so that their shadows superimposed and only one shadow showed. The rings were initially ordered randomly on a horizontal bar with slots on the top side into which the rings snugly fit when hung on the bar. There was a small light at one end of the set of rings that projected through them onto the far wall to cast their shadows.

Since the light emanating from the source spread conically from its source to cast the shadows, the obvious solution was to place the smallest ring closest with the rest in order of size to the largest in the slot farthest from the source. The majority of PhD’s working to solve this problem attempted to solve it by TRIAL AND ERROR!!!!

Wow! That was just one example of the kind of problems they were asked to solve.

#90317 by Inherit The Wind on 7/28 at 4:04 am: “...See, DogShit is a real nazi--as evil as Adolph Hitler.  He’s EXACTLY the same as the Taliban who will beat a woman to death if she slips and falls and her ankle shows.  That’s how DogShit thinks....”

Um, I think you need to go wash your mouth out, ITW ......or perhaps get religion after all.

#90335 by Skruff on 7/28 at 5:58 am: ‘...What clever political commentary. You folks must do a lot of reading.... I’m impressed....”

Gee, thanks for th support, Skruff - are you bagging me as well?

#90427 by Lefty on 7/28 at 12:01 pm: “...THE problem facing the world, is indeed the ‘rebellious house of Israel’, not Russia - and certainly not Muslims! ============= THE problem facing the world is the sickness of christianity and islam, two strains of the same pathology.  The sooner they are eradicated from the world, the better and happier the world will be.  Better, it would be entertaining to watch them eradicate each other.  Where IS that crusade Bush promised....?”

And I’m supposed to be anti-Jewish, huh? You seem to forget that there are three Abrahamic religions - that’s Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Again, that is as they are now practiced because Christianity was never an Abrahamic religion at its commencement. Jesus taught against Jewish doctrine and people neither understand that now or seem to want to. That’s how much of a usurped mess that particular religion has become.

In that case, then, you must be Catholic as well as GOP, Lefty, as the current German pope also wanted to start a crusade against Islam - or to assist Bush in his crusade. But Christians are not supposed to remember that now either. While you are at it, don’t forget that they have also endorsed human-animal hybrids as a new more easily manipulated race of slaves - Bush would just love that as the basis for his crusader armies:- “The Roman Catholic Church has called for women to be allowed to give birth to human-animal hybrids created in the laboratory .......Embryos injected with animal cells, or chimeras, should be treated as human beings where they have a preponderance of human genes, the bishops say in a sumbission to a Government committee......” http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article 1993579.ece

#90430 by straight_talk_11 on 7/28 at 12:07 pm
Straight Talk:

...."Even less do I find any correlation between the “power elite” and those with any credible indications of personal wisdom."…

Thanks so much for your post. I thought I might add that your old teacher sounds like a few of my own favorites, including my now 84 year old dad. And, I’ve tried to incorporate the same. And, my own definitions of “wisdom” and intelligence”, is that if one is WISE, then he or she is intelligent as well. I don’t necessarily measure “intelligence” by ones level of education, since we know that there are some incredibly DUMB ASS people walking around, with advanced degrees of all flavors.

Just look at george, and HE’s the “commander-in-chief”.

Anyway, your old teacher was a treat. We should all be so fortunate, to have at least one, and to be able to RECOGNIZE the wisdom that they provide.

Quoting Lefty:

“THE problem facing the world, is indeed the ‘rebellious house of Israel’, not Russia - and certainly not Muslims!”

“THE problem facing the world is the sickness of christianity and islam, two strains of the same pathology.  The sooner they are eradicated from the world, the better and happier the world will be.”

The problem facing the world is fundamentalism. Neo-atheists are also fundamentalists, dogmatic subscribers to a belief system that effectively worships the superficial world of matter and energy as ultimate reality. Even modern theoretical physics understands neither matter nor energy as fundamental any longer, or anything like what they appear to be on the surface.

Neither fundamentalist group, the Christian right or fundamentalist Muslims, represent all those who believe in the existence of a Supreme and Conscious Intelligence. One can be scientifically well-informed and accept evolution as an unarguable fact without substituting it for God. The laws of nature may be viewed as aspects of this Supreme Intelligence. Evolution can be seen as His modus operandi as Creator.

Talk of eradicating other belief systems in favor of your own tends to be the view of those who have the basic fundamentalist trait of exclusivity, elitists who think they’re too smart to believe in “fables”, etc. and who imagine that all theists are idiots who accept all the inevitably provincial cultural trappings that adorn most ancient religious scripture in this world. There are some who can see more deeply than this and appreciate the unity underlying the truly fundamental aspects of the great world religions that the so-called fundamentalists completely miss.

There is nothing intelligent in superficiality, whether theistic or atheistic, and this is the truly great danger. It is precisely what underlies a “them or us” mentality that precipitates wars, often ironically in the name of God. The truly big picture cultivates understanding, and is unifying, compassionate and does not talk of eradicating others’ belief systems.

It summons rather than rejects. It reconciles rather than differentiates. It comprehends, loves, and embraces rather than hates. The wise always look with an eye to understanding the source of bitterness in the enemy, which often if not always means looking to oneself for answers.

There is nothing of this kind of wisdom in talk of eradication. This kind of talk, in fact, is the essence of evil in this world, most especially war.

Cyrena and Outraged:

Not necessarily the most intelligent, but one of the wisest teachers I ever had was a retired Air Force major. I don’t know what level of education he had because he taught electronics at a community vocational center. I was still in high school and had already had all my college prep courses. I learned a lot from this man...much more than just electronics. He used to start “preaching” whenever he noticed young, mostly male students talking or acting like typical young males who think war is something heroic and glamorous. People a floor below and two rooms away could overhear him shouting, “War is hell!” when his “sermon” came to a climax.

He used to give us almost impossible and different tests again and again until we could all pass with flying colors, then give us an “A”. We all loved and admired him. He was definitely a person who thought way “outside the box” while remaining eminently practical.

I think there may be some confusion about the way some of us use the word “elite”. To avoid this, I tend to couple it with power, resulting in the term “power elite” when I’m talking about those to whom I referred in an earlier post as having an unbridled sense of entitlement. This has nothing to do with level of education and everything to do with attitude, a most undemocratic one at bottom.

Typically, I don’t see a lot of correlation between level of education and the “power elite” or those with elitist attitudes. Even less do I find any correlation between the “power elite” and those with any credible indications of personal wisdom.

#90268 by GodSend on 7/27 at 8:34 pm
(177 comments total)

DC:

THE problem facing the world, is indeed the ‘rebellious house of Israel’, not Russia - and certainly not Muslims!
=====================================================
THE problem facing the world is the sickness of christianity and islam, two strains of the same pathology.  The sooner they are eradicated from the world, the better and happier the world will be.  Better, it would be entertaining to watch them eradicate each other.  Where IS that crusade Bush promised?

#90412 by Outraged on 7/28 at 10:56 am

• A recent survey by North Carolina’s Center for Creative Leadership showed that while only 19 percent of top American managers had earned a postgraduate degree, a remarkable 88 percent of brigadier generals had advanced education.”

Outraged,

Your point is very well taken, (and I’ve often mused on this myself). In short, it proves what we’ve known all along…it hasn’t been the “educated” among the commanders, or the generals, or the civilians at the State Department, that have been “advising” on this disaster that is Iraq, or any of his other potential horrors to the world. In fact, any of THEM, have long since been dismissed or otherwise shit-canned. This list is long, and goes back so far now, that I can’t even remember them all. But the end result is that while we’ve actually HAD these educated and experienced military personnel, george hasn’t wanted to pay any attention to all of that.

Meantime, I’m still HIGHLY recommending it for ALL citizens. (the education thing that is.) It’s the only way they’re gonna know and understand, that NONE of this stuff is “normal”. Imagine how confused our young adults are these days? For some of the younger ones, this dysfunctional government/society is all they’ve ever known.

I noticed some comments alluding to the proposition that the “educated” and “elitest” don’t know what they’re talking about when it comes to war and the like.  Well, if thats true then we’re in trouble since:

“Certainly, advanced education today is more common in the military than in highest levels of business.  A recent survey by North Carolina’s Center for Creative Leadership showed that while only 19 percent of top American managers had earned a postgraduate degree, a remarkable 88 percent of brigadier generals had advanced education.”

Also:
“The rising educational level is manifest in the lower ranks as well. Over 98 percent of the army’s all-voluteer force at time of the Gulf War were high school graduates, the highest percentage in history.”

Excerpt from: War and Anti-War; Alvin and Heide Toffler, copyright 1993.

I realize this book is a bit outdated, but it does show the trends and direction of the American Armed Forces.  To say that education is elitest or unnecessary in war is to say we don’t need educated, trained surgeons for heart surgery.

To me the first excerpt also shows just how uneducated American managers are.  GW being the first idiot that comes to mind, Darth being the second.