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Israel’s Primal Myth: A Barrier to Peace

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Posted on Jul 21, 2007
bombed out
AP Photo/Mohammed Zaatari

Palestinian refugees look over the rubble of a bombed-out house, following an Israeli strike, at the Ein el-Hilweh Palestinian refugee camp in Lebanon last August.

By Barry Lando

Forget about Hamas, the wall, Gaza and the occupied territories. There can be no peace in the Middle East until Israel and the Palestinians deal with one key issue: the Palestinian demand that Israel recognize their right of return.  That demand is based on the Arab charge that the Zionist state created the refugee problem in the war of 1948-49 by a brutal campaign of ethnic cleansing. It’s an accusation that Israel’s leaders have consistently rejected. Jewish soldiers could never commit such crimes. It was the Arabs themselves, they say, who created the refugees. 

It has become increasingly evident, however, that the Israeli position is, in fact, a self-serving myth created when the Jewish state was born, perpetuated ever since by the country’s leaders and still blandly accepted by Washington.

The myth goes like this: In 1948, when the Arabs attacked the newly declared state of Israel, the Arab population fled by the hundreds of thousands.  They left not because of attacks by Israeli soldiers but because of the calls of their own Arab leaders, who guaranteed them a speedy return once the Arab armies had triumphed over the upstart Jewish state. Indeed, they fled despite the attempts of many Israelis—as was movingly portrayed in the film “Exodus”—to convince their Palestinian neighbors to remain. Why should such treacherous people have the right to return? Not to mention the fact that their return by the millions would spell the end of Israel as a Jewish state.

This is the story that Israel’s leaders and Jews throughout the Diaspora have clung to for more than half a century. But since the early 1990s a new generation of Israeli historians and investigative journalists—drawing on formerly classified documents as well as recollections of Israeli leaders of the War of Independence—has demolished the traditional Israeli position.

According to their research, the Palestinians fled their villages not in response to a call from Arab leaders but because of a concerted campaign of terror—including massacres and rape—perpetrated by military units of the newly declared Israeli state.

As Gideon Levy, a leading columnist from Haaretz, put it, “1948 was Israel’s finest hour, the culmination of a mad dream: the formation of an independent Jewish state.” At the same time he declared, “it was our darkest hour, in which we committed war crimes on a large scale. And did so in all good conscience.”

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The key point, often overlooked, is that in 1948,
Resolution 181 of the U.N. General Assembly didn’t just call for the creation of the single state of Israel from the British mandate of Palestine. In fact, it recommended dividing Palestine into two separate countries—one predominately Arab, the other Jewish—to be joined by an economic union. 

According to Sylvain Cypel, a leading correspondent for Le Monde, the full version of that U.N. resolution was never published in its entirety in Hebrew. The reason for that may be simple. From the beginning Israel’s future leaders were determined that the Jewish state, carved out of the British mandate, would be just a first step toward the eventual takeover of all the land of Palestine. As David Ben Gurion, who would become Israel’s first prime minister, confided to Labor Party members in 1941, “As soon as we gain power, once our state is established we’ll annul [the partition] and will spread out over all the territory of Israel.”

There was, however, an obvious demographic hitch to such ambitions. If the Palestinians were allowed to remain on their lands, their numbers would overwhelm the Jews—the Jewish state would be stillborn. In fact, according to
Benny Morris, one of the first of the new Israeli historians, European Zionist leaders had secretly discussed plans for transferring the Arab population out of Palestine as far back as 1937 in Zurich. They had few illusions that the relocation of up to 500,000 Arabs could be peacefully achieved. “It is hard to imagine a transfer without recourse to force,” Ben Gurion later wrote in 1941.

Such blunt talk was for internal use only. Outwardly, a different myth was already being prepared. “They lied, oh, how they lied,” thundered Gideon Levy. “The Arabs were always the bad guys, and we were the just, absolute, and sole victims. That’s what we’ve been told.”

Indeed, after thoroughly researching Israeli archives, Morris found that not only was there no evidence that Arab leaders had called upon their people to flee in 1948-49, but that records revealed exactly the opposite: “In no case did a Palestinian population abandon its homes before an attack.” To the contrary, Israeli intelligence services had actually intercepted calls from Arab leaders asking Palestinians either to remain in their homes or to return if they had already fled.

Morris and other Israeli historians concluded that the Palestinians’ flight was—as the Arabs had long claimed—the result of a purposeful policy of Israeli forces, whose communiqués at the time spoke openly of “cleansing” or “purifying” the conquered Arab villages.

According to Gen. Yigal Allon, in May 12, 1948, as his men approached each Arab town, they tossed in tracts with the message in Arabic, “if you don’t flee immediately, you will all be slaughtered, your daughters will be raped.” Those were not empty threats. 

“The reality,” writes Cypel in his newly published book,
“Walled,” “is that the expulsion was desired, coordinated, and accomplished by systematic atrocities against, and killing of, civilians, with town properties razed on order (at first on a very unequal fashion from one area to another), and that nearly half of this expulsion was carried out even before the Arab states attacked Israel.”

Another Israeli historian, Gail Ehrlich, concluded that a dozen massacres of more than 50 victims each were committed during Israel’s War of Independence, apart from about 100 killings of smaller groups and individuals.  He described a “conspiracy of silence” surrounding those massacres, which were carried out by elite Israel troops and continued even after the creation of the state of Israel. 

“When the first expulsions were undertaken no local officer received an order to stop them,” says Cypel, who lived for 12 years in Israel and served in the army. “Everyone understood from then on what direction was to be followed, without any need for an explicit formulation.”

In 2004, Benny Morris wrote a new study concluding there had been far more “ethnic cleansing”—far more massacres and rapes than he had originally thought. The Israeli fighters had been given explicit orders “to uproot the villagers, expel them and destroy the villages themselves.” In October 1948 in the Galilee, he said, “There was an unusually high concentration of executions of people against a wall or next to a well in an orderly fashion. This can’t be chance. It’s a pattern.” The orders for expulsion followed the visit of Prime Minister Ben Gurion to the headquarters of the units that undertook them.

According to Cypel, “Of the 875,000 Palestinians who found themselves in the expanded State of Israel at the end of the war, only 150,000 were left after the new expulsions following the cease fire with the Arab states. The others, that is 82 percent, were driven out, half of them by military force, the rest under the combined influence of threat, terror, and a deep feeling of abandonment and powerlessness.”

What sealed their fate was the decision of the Israeli government in 1948 to refuse to allow any Palestinians who had fled—no matter what their motive—to return to their homeland. At the same time, Israeli residence was offered to anyone in the world who could claim Jewish ancestry.

As if to destroy evidence of the Palestinian past, over the following years some 400 out of 500 Palestinian towns and ancestral villages were burned, dynamited and bulldozed, obliterated from the maps of Israel.

When the war in Kosovo broke out in 1999 an Israeli editorialist wryly wrote, “How lucky we were then there was no CNN in 1948 or the whole world would have been able to see in Palestine the images we are seeing today.”

The particular irony in all this is that it has traditionally been Israel demanding that other countries acknowledge their own past moral failings, specifically with regard to the Holocaust. There is, of course, no comparison between the horrors of the Shoah and the campaign of ethnic cleansing against the Palestinians. But that fact, say some Israeli writers, should not absolve the Zionist state from recognizing the less than glorious episodes in its own history.

“Maybe we had to act as we did,” says Gideon Levy. “Maybe there was no other way possible. But why lie all these years?  Why not say, ‘One right came up against another, one victim came up against another, and the result was inevitable. We had to drive them out. It was them or us.’ That would be much more persuasive than the lie. It would also lead to peace.”

Most Israelis are still unwilling to take that step. They cite the fear of being overwhelmed and annihilated by a flood of returning Palestinians. But most Palestinian and Arab leaders are under no illusions that Israel would ever open its doors to the 4 million refugees. What they ask from Israel is formal recognition of what actually happened in 1948-49—a recognition that would entail the Zionist state’s assuming some responsibility for finally resolving the refugee problem. The great majority of Palestinians, they acknowledge, would never return.

That was the kind of deal that Yasser Arafat sought in the ill-fated Camp David talks of 2000: a face-saving accord that would have allowed him to claim victory, even though he and everyone knew there would not be a real right of return. Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, however, refused to cede any ground on the issue. The claim that Israel’s offer at the time was more than generous, says Cypel, was false—another case of Israeli myth making.

In fact, negotiations in following years between leading Israelis and Palestinians made it clear that a compromise on the issue was very much within reach.

Six months after the failed Camp David talks, for instance, at Taba, Barak’s former minister of justice, Yossi Beilin, submitted a draft proposal acknowledging that “the nascent state of Israel was drawn into the War of 1948-1949, which had its victims and led to suffering on both sides, including the displacement and expropriation of the civilian Palestinian population. ... Since that time the refugees have for decades lived without dignity, citizenship, or property.” Israel, he promised, “will be an active partner in closing this terrible chapter.” The proposal offered the refugees several options: return to Israel within limits to be agreed on, repatriation to a future Palestinian state,  or relocation in their current host countries or elsewhere, much of this to be underwritten by additional international financing.

“For the first time,” says Cypel, “Israel was admitting the illegitimacy of its demand that the Palestinians forget their own history.”

Speaking to his fellow Israelis, Beilin attempted to make them understand that “it is impossible to ask the Palestinians to give up the right of return. If we ask them, there will be no final record.” Ehud Barak, however, broke off the Taba talks.

Similar draft negotiations two years later in Geneva, which resulted in the Palestinians agreeing to limits on their right of return and Israel undertaking to compensate the heirs of Palestinians it had expelled, ended after the talks were denounced by Ariel Sharon.

Four years later, Israeli leaders and the great majority of its people still refuse to accept responsibility for the refugee problem. It boils down, says Cypel, to a question of appearances.

Despite Israel’s great accomplishments, he says, there is still widespread apprehension among Israelis about any questioning of the country’s self-image of moral superiority and perpetual victim of aggression. “The revelation of the slightest flaw, the revelation of the least stain, whether in the past or ... the present, seems to evoke such fear that it challenges not only the existence but the very legitimacy of this society in the eyes of a large majority of its own members.”

While Israel’s difficulty in dealing with its own past may thus make some sense, much more remarkable is how successful the Israelis have been in convincing American leaders to play along with their founding myth.


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By Neoconned, July 24, 2007 at 3:44 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Lefty

Before you start on that old routine of “The Goyim never lifted a finger to help the Holocaust victims”; Did any Israeli lift a finger to help the Kurds getting gased in Iraq?

If not, why not?  Why did every past, present and future generation of Isarelis let the Kurds die? 

You are guilty by way of inaction.  If every Goyim who was ever born (and yet to be born) was, and is, and ever shall be guilty of letting the excusively Jewish Holocaust happen, are we not to use the same standard on Israel for their inaction on human tragedy throught the world? 

By the way, forget the 5-6 million gentiles who died in the Holocaust.  As we all know, they don’t count, being Non Jewish goyim low life.

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By jfior, July 24, 2007 at 1:10 am Link to this comment

#88941 by ardee on 7/23 at 5:16 pm
(329 comments total)

“I suspect Israeli policies towards the palestinians stem more from the treatment jews received for thousands of years than any literal translations of the old testament. One wonders at a city in the long ago B.C. wherein there would be literally 32,000 virgins in a city that, in those days, would be lucky to contain a few thousand souls all together. Reading a book of parables and attempting to ascribe a literal translation to the darn thing doesnt work… “

Ardee, I agree with you that there most likely is a great deal of pent up frustration and anger at their “people’s” treatment over time (but to say that the Palestinians have been the sole persecutors and thus should be the sole focus of Israeli military I think is inappropriate) but I like to think that modern day morality would prevent the tacit acceptance of the outside world of what could be viewed as genocidal behavior…look at Darfur and Rwanda to name a few…granted…the outside world condems such actions and little else, there is little support for this type of activity these days…certain Muslims may think differently about Darfur, but that is a different subject all together

The myths in the OT are clearly full of hyperbole, Josua blowing his horn did not make the wall of Jericho fall down… all I’m saying is that if they want a justification that can rally a group of people to a common cause, make the claim that YAHWEE is on your side and have a book to “prove” it that shows how YAHWEE has delivered your people from its enemies before and the methods used to claim the land…it seems logical to me that they would read those myths as a primer for how to do it now….that is all.

I think it was Stephen Wienburg who said roughly “good people do good things, bad people do bad things, it takes religion for good people to do bad things”

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By Neoconned, July 23, 2007 at 9:50 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

#89011 by Lefty on 7/23 at 8:17 pm

Why don’t you terminate the Palestinians then?
They are, after all, vermin as you see them.

You could Nuke them, Napalm them, or even work them to death, or, if you really want to be ironic then gas them.

Would it be equally correct to see Jews throughout the world as vermin and Squatters??? Is the only place for Jews in Israel???

If you want to ethnically cleanse Israel, then does it equally follow the world should be ethnically cleansed of Jews (except for their natural home in Israel)??

Bigots like you are a disgrace to true Judaism. 
You shame yourself even as you utter such racist assumptions of superiority.

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By cyrena, July 23, 2007 at 9:42 pm Link to this comment

#88941 by ardee on 7/23 at 5:16 pm

•  ITW,
As one nut job to the other, Ive always been crazy but it kept me from going insane. Generally Cyrena’s posts are pretty fair, but we all slip form time to time, except for me, of course, Im perfect….Oh and you too, but then again…....

Thanks for the acknowledgement Ardee. I like to think that I’m generally pretty fair and open-minded, and most others seem to pick that up. But, ‘tis true that I do indeed slip up. Frequently, as a matter of fact; at least on the small stuff. I have developed an annoying habit of subconsciously assuming that people can read my mind, which is sometimes reflected in my writing. I try to be aware of that, but occasionally I do blow it, and that of course requires some sort of correction/verification to what I actually intended. But, once I’ve done that a few times, (on the SAME issue or concept) I begin to think that my energy is best directed elsewhere. I’ve just never been one for flogging dead horses, or much else to be truthful.

Still, “perfection” has never been my claim. You’re all allowed to put me away, if I ever make such a claim in connection with myself.

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By cyrena, July 23, 2007 at 9:16 pm Link to this comment

#88947 by blafo on 7/23 at 5:27 pm

•  It is often said that “the price of freedom is eternal vigilance.” Maybe so, but it is equally true that one price of lasting peace is relative vulnerability….

Blafo, this post contains some excellent observations. I was particularly struck with this…

•  This very consistent pattern of behavior by the Israeli government strikes me as brilliantly strategic. It virtually guarantees that Istrael will never have to actually make peace, while making them look like they are always wanting and negotiating for it, and also casting the Palestinian leadership and people as demented violence lovers.

This has indeed been the consistent pattern. And, it’s a game that is used in smaller subdivisions of societies everywhere. But, seeing the destruction so blatantly wrought by this brilliant pattern, one would think we would finally recognize how this consistent pattern of behavior on the part of the Israeli government, has ultimately put us all at great risk.

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By Robert, July 23, 2007 at 8:04 pm Link to this comment

Comment #88831 by ITW on 7/23


“Ardee, haven’t you been paying attention?

According to the 1Sgt, Cyrena, GodSend and Robert, I’m supposed to be the one needing mental health care.  After all, I dare to question the ravings of these four, and, like the old Soviet Union, anyone who questions their “truth” must be mentally ill and locked up so they can’t spread their “insanity” (they all want me blocked from posting).”

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

“Inherit The Zionist Hot Wind”...Nice try at trying to sidetrack the issues.You can just keep flapping your jaws & foaming at the mouth till the cows come home. The TRUTH about your “Evil Zionism” hurts your kind and it has that penetrating sting when it comes from people who have seen and experienced Israel’s Zionist Nazi methods. Mr Naeim Giladi, an honorable Iraqi Jewish man, has the guts and integrity to reject zionism and to writeabout the evil ways of your zionist terrorists & Israels IDF murderer’s records.

Keep working at your sly methods and you may be able to influence & team-up with “ardee” to walk with you down that racist zionist’s path and Apartheid ideology.

In the meantime, just keep blowing that “Hot Zionist Wind”. You might just come up with something that is worthy of TRUTH. So far, its all been zionist garbage & propaganda.

http://www.inminds.co.uk/jews-of-iraq.html

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By blafo, July 23, 2007 at 6:27 pm Link to this comment

It is often said that “the price of freedom is eternal vigilance.” Maybe so, but it is equally true that one price of lasting peace is relative vulnerability. The Israeli government has always maintained a policy of zero tolerance for vulnerability of any kind. Consequently, every time a peace treaty has been initiated, the very first single incident of violence by some rogue Palestinian fanatic (which the Israeli government was never close to naive enough to think would not inevitably occur) was seized upon immediately as a great surprise and shock and used to utterly jettison the peace effort that had previously been negotiated with such apparent statesmanship and optimism. Instead of taking one on the chin (and yes, that may be a glib way of referring to a bus bombing, but consider it in the context of all the Israelis who have suffered since the first time Israel could have followed through with a true peace treaty) and garnering unwavering international support by refusing to allow one act of violence to derail an effort to interrupt a long historical pattern of violence and suffering by both Israelis and Palestinians, the Israeli government has always insisted on calling any violent act against them a conspiracy by those in power in Palestine. In other words, they have always used as their excuse to trash whatever peace they just negotiated, the tale that the Palestinian leadership negotiated peace one day and then directly ordered the launch of a katusha into Israel the next. This very consistent pattern of behavior by the Israeli government strikes me as brilliantly strategic. It virtually guarantees that Istrael will never have to actually make peace, while making them look like they are always wanting and negotiating for it, and also casting the Palestinian leadership and people as demented violence lovers. Until recently, this pattern also provided effective distraction from the expansion of Israeli settlements into Palestinian territory.
I’ve often wondered why, with the USA and Europe behind them, the government of Israel could not make peace with the Palestinians. Absent peace, the Israeli people are, and presumably will continue to be, attacked regardless of their defensive measures. It seems to me that if they really saw peace as the solution to that problem and really wanted it, they would make it happen. If I were an Israeli citizen wanting peace, I would be fed up with my government’s old and worn out excuse of the “evil” Palestinian leaders. I would demand that they get off their asses and actually BE the diplomats they claim to be, stop assasinating people and make friggin peace already. No more bullshit. Just GET THE JOB DONE!

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By ardee, July 23, 2007 at 6:25 pm Link to this comment

#88854 by Miller Smith on 7/23 at 10:37 am
(Unregistered commenter)

The jews didn’t run the locals off when Israel was formed.  The Arab countries told the locals to leave.  Jews were thrown out of the arab countries and you don’t hear you guys calling for the jew’s right to return now…do you?

You just want a whole bunch of jew haters to be allowed back into a country they hate with the right to vote it out of existence.  That is your goal and you can’t hide that.


Sorry Mr. Smith, but your version of historical fact is not the accurate one. There have been several historical tomes researched and written about that time and the facts are quite clear. Tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of arabs were run out of the emerging state of Israel, their property confiscated and lands usurped. Great Britain, in an attempt to regain its former colony did indeed provoke violence and some neighboring arab states did as well fearing a tidal wave of people flooding their lands and straining their resources.

You win no points for an obviously biased and regrettably untruthful assertion. Why on earth can folks not see that both parties here are in the wrong?

As has been stated before, and well too, a single state solution is simply impractical at this time and we must work to achieve a palestinian homeland. I do believe that, in the fullness of time we shall see the two cousins merge and make a strong state, but I will certainly not live to see such an event.

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By ardee, July 23, 2007 at 6:16 pm Link to this comment

#88813 by jfior on 7/23 at 6:21 am
(8 comments total)

As many have already hinted at…I just wanted to clarify…the Israeli internally-accepted methods of nation building through terrorism and absolute (or attempted) destruction of another people can stem only from a their literal reading of the Old Testament (or Torah if you are not a Christian or have a Bible handy) and the story of how Israel came to be in the first place…how else to justify such slaughter and expulsion of a “lesser class of humans”....read the Old Testament and see of the slaughter of entire populations…except for the virgins of course….

I suspect Israeli policies towards the palestinians stem more from the treatment jews received for thousands of years than any literal translations of the old testament. One wonders at a city in the long ago B.C. wherein there would be literally 32,000 virgins in a city that, in those days, would be lucky to contain a few thousand souls all together. Reading a book of parables and attempting to ascribe a literal translation to the darn thing doesnt work…

ITW,
As one nut job to the other, Ive always been crazy but it kept me from going insane. Generally Cyrena’s posts are pretty fair, but we all slip form time to time, except for me, of course, Im perfect….Oh and you too, but then again…....

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By cyrena, July 23, 2007 at 5:24 pm Link to this comment

#88813 by jfior on 7/23 at 6:21 am

”....read the Old Testament and see of the slaughter of entire populations…except for the virgins of course….

Jfior:

I just wanted to thank you for illuminating where these multiple virgins had come from, and why they’ve apparently come to have so much “significance” in current religious mythology. (ironically enough, this was the “word” on the hijackers of 9-11…they were allegedly seeking virgins in heaven)

Anyway, since I’ve never been much of a Bible reader, (and particularly not the Old Testament, because it is just downright VIOLENT) I had never heard or read these creepy parts that you pointed out.

And yes, it explains a lot. Still scary as hell, but it does explain a great deal.

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By Neoconned, July 23, 2007 at 2:14 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

#88884 by Non Credo on 7/23 at 1:00 pm


Ohhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!  That was cutting.  And it cut Deep.

You went straight for the Testicles.

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By Miller Smith, July 23, 2007 at 11:37 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The jews didn’t run the locals off when Israel was formed.  The Arab countries told the locals to leave.  Jews were thrown out of the arab countries and you don’t hear you guys calling for the jew’s right to return now…do you?

You just want a whole bunch of jew haters to be allowed back into a country they hate with the right to vote it out of existence.  That is your goal and you can’t hide that.

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By hidden, July 23, 2007 at 10:33 am Link to this comment

“And the world doesn’t believe that you fightin’ for freedom

Cause you fucked the Middle East, and gave birth to a demon

It’s open season with the CIA, bugging my crib

Trapped in a ghetto region like a Palestinian kid

Where nobody gives a fuck whether you die or you live “
Immortal Technique
The fourth Branch
Revolutionary Volume II

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By Inherit The Wind, July 23, 2007 at 9:19 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

{i]ardee on 7/23 at 4:35 am
(322 comments total)

Robert,
Please refrain from hijackinga thread in this fashion. It shows a selfish diregard for the rights of others when you post one after the other after the other. A summary and link would have done nicely, especially since your diatribe smacks of poor mental health.

Ardee, haven’t you been paying attention?

According to the 1Sgt, Cyrena, GodSend and Robert, I’m supposed to be the one needing mental health care.  After all, I dare to question the ravings of these four, and, like the old Soviet Union, anyone who questions their “truth” must be mentally ill and locked up so they can’t spread their “insanity” (they all want me blocked from posting).

That means, since you, too, find Robert’s endless boring, unoriginal, reprinting of propaganda for 6, 8 or 10 posts in a row to be nothing more than an insulting hair clog in the drain, you, too must be mentally unstable.  Combine this with the fact that you can and will actually debate honestly, even with me, seals it—you must be mental.

Now they will all flame me….wait for it! smile

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By Neoconned, July 23, 2007 at 8:19 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I still can’t get my head around the paradox of how a secular Zionist state is defended and enforced by “pious” groups. 

It’s as baffeling to me as Marxist inspired Zionists, of east Europe, collaborating with Hitler to engineer a mass flight to British controlled Palestine (the natural Bad Guys, at that time, so far as Zionists were concerned).

Have I missed something or is the true nature of Zionism one form of truely Ruthless and Cynical in character???

At this point in history, no one talks openly about these massive historical incongruities.  Unless of course they want to be labled Anti-Semitic for even giving it due consideration.

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By jfior, July 23, 2007 at 7:21 am Link to this comment

As many have already hinted at…I just wanted to clarify…the Israeli internally-accepted methods of nation building through terrorism and absolute (or attempted) destruction of another people can stem only from a their literal reading of the Old Testament (or Torah if you are not a Christian or have a Bible handy) and the story of how Israel came to be in the first place…how else to justify such slaughter and expulsion of a “lesser class of humans”....read the Old Testament and see of the slaughter of entire populations…except for the virgins of course….

Of course, there is a good deal of evidence that those stories are fabrications of later generations…like the story of Aeneas and Rome, but I can’t see that stopping the devoutly religious

Read the following from the OT…quite disturbing…

Joshua 6:21 And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.

Numbers 31 Moses says “Have you saved all the women alive? Kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.” So they went back and did as Moses instructed, killing everyone except for the virgins. In this way they got 32,000 virgins

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By ardee, July 23, 2007 at 5:35 am Link to this comment

Robert,
Please refrain from hijackinga thread in this fashion. It shows a selfish diregard for the rights of others when you post one after the other after the other. A summary and link would have done nicely, especially since your diatribe smacks of poor mental health.

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By hidden agenda, July 23, 2007 at 12:17 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

There is no right answer, solution, war, or policy that is able to change the past. There are so many books, answers, and support for people on, what seems like infinte, sides of this story that it will never have any effect on the matter. What I can tell you is this, lets agree to disagree and gain as much knowledge about the concept of humanity as we can, so that we shouldn’t ever fall into the trap of ignorance and arrogance of humanity.

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By Fadel Abdallah, July 22, 2007 at 10:04 pm Link to this comment

Another piece of hard facts, known for long time only to the privileged few who were free from the blinding Zionist propaganda, prevalent in the West in genral and in the U.S. in particular.

Ideally speaking, the truth of these facts should serve as a liberating force to bring justice for the Palestinians! But it seems that in this vast land of freedom, very few are really free from the tyranny of the Zionist propaganda machine, and more so among the bought politicl class, through whom, unfortunately, no justice can be served as long as their Zionist masters tell them to forget about justice.

All, except one, of the presidential candidates, from both parties, were ordered to visit Israel and pay homage to their masters, and you still call this a democracy?!

I weep for the sad lot of the Palestinians, but lately I’ve been weeping more so for my adopted homeland whose democracy and ideals have been sold cheaply to the highest bidders! So instead of real democracy we are left with all the democracy that money can buy!

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By albert, July 22, 2007 at 9:56 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

palestinians are not the only ones affected by zionist crimes. check out iamthewitness.com to see what i’m talking about.

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By Robert, July 22, 2007 at 9:35 pm Link to this comment

(Part VI- Continued from previous comment)

Bacteriological Warfare

“The Haganah put typhus bacteria into the water going to Acre, the people got sick, and the Jewish forces occupied Acre. This worked so well that they sent a Haganah division dressed as Arabs into Gaza, where there were Egyptian forces, and the Egyptians caught them putting two cans of bacteria, typhus and dysentery, into the water supply in wanton disregard of the civilian population.”

“I was disillusioned at what I found in the Promised Land, disillusioned personally, disillusioned at the institutionalized racism, disillusioned at what I was beginning to learn about Zionism’s cruelties. The principal interest Israel had in Jews from Islamic countries was as a supply of cheap labor, especially for the farm work that was beneath the urbanized Eastern European Jews. Ben Gurion needed the “Oriental” Jews to farm the thousands of acres of land left by Palestinians who were driven out by Israeli forces in 1948.

And I began to find out about the barbaric methods used to rid the fledgling state of as many Palestinians as possible. The world recoils today at the thought of bacteriological warfare, but Israel was probably the first to actually use it in the Middle East. In the 1948 war, Jewish forces would empty Arab villages of their populations, often by threats, sometimes by just gunning down a half-dozen unarmed Arabs as examples to the rest. To make sure the Arabs couldn’t return to make a fresh life for themselves in these villages, the Israelis put typhus and dysentery bacteria into the water wells.

Uri Mileshtin, an official historian for the Israeli Defense Force, has written and spoken about the use of bacteriological agents[1]. According to Mileshtin, Moshe Dayan, a division commander at the time, gave orders in 1948 to remove Arabs from their villages, bulldoze their homes, and render water wells unusable with typhus and dysentery bacteria.
     

  Bacteriological Warfare

  The Haganah put typhus bacteria into the water going to Acre, the people got sick, and the Jewish forces occupied Acre. This worked so well that they sent a Haganah division dressed as Arabs into Gaza, where there were Egyptian forces, and the Egyptians caught them putting two cans of bacteria, typhus and dysentery, into the water supply in wanton disregard of the civilian population.

Acre was so situated that it could practically defend itself with one big gun, so the Haganah put bacteria into the spring that fed the town. The spring was called Capri and it ran from the north near a kibbutz. The Haganah put typhus bacteria into the water going to Acre, the people got sick, and the Jewish forces occupied Acre. This worked so well that they sent a Haganah division dressed as Arabs into Gaza, where there were Egyptian forces, and the Egyptians caught them putting two cans of bacteria, typhus and dysentery, into the water supply in wanton disregard of the civilian population. “In war, there is no sentiment,” one of the captured Haganah men was quoted as saying.”

http://www.inminds.co.uk/jews-of-iraq.html

——————————————————————-

THE ZIONIST HAVE LEFT THEIR TRAIL OF POISON BEHIND. DECEPTION AND MASS MURDER HAVE ALWAYS BEEN THEIR WAYS!!!

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By Robert, July 22, 2007 at 9:26 pm Link to this comment

(Part V- Continued from previous comment)


ABOUT THIS ARTICLE:

The Link interviewed Naeim Giladi, a Jew from Iraq, for three hours on March 16, 1998, two days prior to his 69th birthday. For nearly two other delightful hours, we were treated to a multi-course Arabic meal prepared by his wife Rachael, who is also Iraqi. “It’s our Arab culture,” he said proudly.

In our previous Link, Israeli historian Ilan Pappe looked at the hundreds of thousands of indigenous Palestinians whose lives were uprooted to make room for foreigners who would come to populate confiscated land. Most were Ashkenazi Jews from Eastern Europe. But over half a million other Jews came from Islamic lands. Zionist propagandists claim that Israel “rescued” these Jews from their anti-Jewish, Muslim neighbors. One of those “rescued” Jews-Naeim Giladi-knows otherwise.

In his book, Ben Gurion’s Scandals: How the Haganah & the Mossad Eliminated Jews, Giladi discusses the crimes committed by Zionists in their frenzy to import raw Jewish labor. Newly-vacated farmlands had to be plowed to provide food for the immigrants and the military ranks had to be filled with conscripts to defend the stolen lands. Mr. Giladi couldn’t get his book published in Israel, and even in the U.S. he discovered he could do so only if he used his own money.

The Giladis, now U.S. citizens, live in New York City. By choice, they no longer hold Israeli citizenship. “I am Iraqi,” he told us, “born in Iraq, my culture still Iraqi Arabic, my religion Jewish, my citizenship American.”

John F. Mahoney
Executive Director,
Americans for Middle East Understanding (AMEU)

http://www.inminds.co.uk/jews-of-iraq.html

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By Robert, July 22, 2007 at 9:21 pm Link to this comment

(PartIV-from previous comment)
“Zionist propagandists still maintain that the bombs in Iraq were set off by anti-Jewish Iraqis who wanted Jews out of their country. The terrible truth is that the grenades that killed and maimed Iraqi Jews and damaged their property were thrown by Zionist Jews.

Among the most important documents in my book, I believe, are copies of two leaflets published by the Zionist underground calling on Jews to leave Iraq. One is dated March 16, 1950, the other April 8, 1950.
     

The terrible truth is that the grenades that killed and maimed Iraqi Jews and damaged their property were thrown by Zionist Jews.

The difference between these two is critical. Both indicate the date of publication, but only the April 8th leaflet notes the time of day: 4 p.m. Why the time of day? Such a specification was unprecedented. Even the investigating judge, Salaman El-Beit, found it suspicious. Did the 4 p.m. writers want an alibi for a bombing they knew would occur five hours later? If so, how did they know about the bombing? The judge concluded they knew because a connection existed between the Zionist underground and the bomb throwers.

This, too, was the conclusion of Wilbur Crane Eveland, a former senior officer in the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), whom I had the opportunity to meet in New York in 1988. In his book, Ropes of Sand, whose publication the CIA opposed, Eveland writes:

In attempts to portray the Iraqis as anti-American and to terrorize the Jews, the Zionists planted bombs in the U.S. Information Service library and in synagogues. Soon leaflets began to appear urging Jews to flee to Israel. . . .

Although the Iraqi police later provided our embassy with evidence to show that the synagogue and library bombings, as well as the anti-Jewish and anti-American leaflet campaigns, had been the work of an underground Zionist organization, most of the world believed reports that Arab terrorism had motivated the flight of the Iraqi Jews whom the Zionists had “rescued” really just in order to increase Israel’s Jewish population.”[6]

Eveland doesn’t detail the evidence linking the Zionists to the attacks, but in my book I do. In 1955, for example, I organized in Israel a panel of Jewish attorneys of Iraqi origin to handle claims of Iraqi Jews who still had property in Iraq. One well known attorney, who asked that I not give his name, confided in me that the laboratory tests in Iraq had confirmed that the anti-American leaflets found at the American Cultural Center bombing were typed on the same typewriter and duplicated on the same stenciling machine as the leaflets distributed by the Zionist movement just before the April 8th bombing.

Tests also showed that the type of explosive used in the Beit-Lawi attack matched traces of explosives found in the suitcase of an Iraqi Jew by the name of Yosef Basri. Basri, a lawyer, together with Shalom Salih, a shoemaker, would be put on trial for the attacks in December 1951 and executed the following month. Both men were members of Hashura, the military arm of the Zionist underground. Salih ultimately confessed that he, Basri and a third man, Yosef Habaza, carried out the attacks.

By the time of the executions in January 1952, all but 6,000 of an estimated 125,000 Iraqi Jews had fled to Israel. Moreover, the pro-British, pro-Zionist puppet el-Said saw to it that all of their possessions were frozen, including their cash assets. (There were ways of getting Iraqi dinars out, but when the immigrants went to exchange them in Israel they found that the Israeli government kept 50 percent of the value.) Even those Iraqi Jews who had not registered to emigrate, but who happened to be abroad, faced loss of their nationality if they didn’t return within a specified time. An ancient, cultured, prosperous community had been uprooted and its people transplanted to a land dominated by East European Jews, whose culture was not only foreign but entirely hateful to them.”

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By Robert, July 22, 2007 at 9:11 pm Link to this comment

(Part III- continued from previous comment)

“Sixteen years later, the Israeli magazine Haolam Hazeh, published by Uri Avnery, then a Knesset member, accused Ben-Porat of the Baghdad bombings. Ben-Porat, who would become a Knesset member himself, denied the charge, but never sued the magazine for libel. And Iraqi Jews in Israel still call him Morad Abu al-Knabel, Mordechai of the Bombs.     

In September 1949, Israel sent the spy Mordechai Ben-Porat to Iraq. One of the first things Ben-Porat did was to approach el-Said, the prime minister of Iraq, and promise him financial incentives to have a law enacted that would lift the citizenship of Iraqi Jews.

As I said, all this went well beyond the comprehension of a teenager. I knew Jews were being killed and an organization existed that could lead us to the Promised Land. So I helped in the exodus to Israel. Later, on occasions, I would bump into some of these Iraqi Jews in Israel. Not infrequently they’d express the sentiment that they could kill me for what I had done.”

http://www.inminds.co.uk/jews-of-iraq.html

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By Robert, July 22, 2007 at 9:06 pm Link to this comment

(Part II- continued from previous comment)

“David Ben Gurion, Israel’s first prime minister, told a Zionist Conference in 1937 that any proposed Jewish state would have to “transfer Arab populations out of the area, if possible of their own free will, if not by coercion.”[8] After 750,000 Palestinians were uprooted and their lands confiscated in 1948-49, Ben Gurion had to look to the Islamic countries for Jews who could fill the resultant cheap labor market. “Emissaries” were smuggled into these countries to “convince” Jews to leave either by trickery or fear.

In the case of Iraq, both methods were used: uneducated Jews were told of a Messianic Israel in which the blind see, the lame walk, and onions grow as big as melons; educated Jews had bombs thrown at them.

A few years after the bombings, in the early 1950s, a book was published in Iraq, in Arabic, titled Venom of the Zionist Viper. The author was one of the Iraqi investigators of the 1950-51 bombings and, in his book, he implicates the Israelis, specifically one of the emissaries sent by Israel, Mordechai Ben-Porat. As soon as the book came out, all copies just disappeared, even from libraries. The word was that agents of the Israeli Mossad, working through the U.S. Embassy, bought up all the books and destroyed them. I tried on three different occasions to have one sent to me in Israel, but each time Israeli censors in the post office intercepted it.

British Leaders.
Britain always acted in its best colonial interests. For that reason Foreign Minister Arthur Balfour sent his famous 1917 letter to Lord Rothschild in exchange for Zionist support in WW I. During WW II the British were primarily concerned with keeping their client states in the Western camp, while Zionists were most concerned with the immigration of European Jews to Palestine, even if this meant cooperating with the Nazis. (In my book I documentnumerous instances of such dealings by Ben Gurion and the Zionist leadership.)

After WW II the international chessboard pitted communists against capitalists. In many countries, including the United States and Iraq, Jews represented a large part of the Communist party. In Iraq, hundreds of Jews of the working intelligentsia occupied key positions in the hierarchy of the Communist and Socialist parties. To keep their client countries in the capitalist camp, Britain had to make sure these governments had pro-British leaders. And if, as in Iraq, these leaders were overthrown, then an anti-Jewish riot or two could prove a useful pretext to invade the capital and reinstate the “right” leaders.

Moreover, if the possibility existed of removing the communist influence from Iraq by transferring the whole Jewish community to Israel, well then, why not? Particularly if the leaders of Israel and Iraq conspired in the deed.
     

  Britain had to make sure these governments had pro-British leaders. And if, as in Iraq, these leaders were overthrown, then an anti-Jewish riot or two could prove a useful pretext to invade the capital and reinstate the “right” leaders.”

http://www.inminds.co.uk/jews-of-iraq.html

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By Robert, July 22, 2007 at 9:00 pm Link to this comment

THE JEWS OF IRAQ
By Naeim Giladi

“ABOUT 125,000 JEWS LEFT IRAQ FOR ISRAEL IN LATE 1940S AND INTO 1952, MOST BECAUSE THE Y HAD BEEN LIED TO AND PUT INTO A PANIC BY WHAT I CAME TO LEARN “ZIONIST” BOMBS.”

MY STORY

“Of course I thought I knew it all back then. I was young, idealistic, and more than willing to put my life at risk for my convictions. It was 1947 and I wasn’t quite 18 when the Iraqi authorities caught me for smuggling young Iraqi Jews like myself out of Iraq, into Iran, and then on to the Promised Land of the soon-to-be established Israel.

I was an Iraqi Jew in the Zionist underground. My Iraqi jailers did everything they could to extract the names of my co-conspirators. Fifty years later, pain still throbs in my right toe-a reminder of the day my captors used pliers to remove my toenails. On another occasion, they hauled me to the flat roof of the prison, stripped me bare on a frigid January day, then threw a bucket of cold water over me. I was left there, chained to the railing, for hours. But I never once considered giving them the information they wanted. I was a true believer.

My preoccupation during what I refer to as my “two years in hell” was with survival and escape. I had no interest then in the broad sweep of Jewish history in Iraq even though my family had been part of it right from the beginning. We were originally Haroons, a large and important family of the “Babylonian Diaspora.” My ancestors had settled in Iraq more than 2,600 years ago-600 years before Christianity, and 1,200 years before Islam. I am descended from Jews who built the tomb of Yehezkel, a Jewish prophet of pre-biblical times. My town, where I was born in 1929, is Hillah, not far from the ancient site of Babylon.

The original Jews found Babylon, with its nourishing Tigris and Euphrates rivers, to be truly a land of milk, honey, abundance-and opportunity. Although Jews, like other minorities in what became Iraq, experienced periods of oppression and discrimination depending on the rulers of the period, their general trajectory over two and one-half millennia was upward. Under the late Ottoman rule, for example, Jewish social and religious institutions, schools, and medical facilities flourished without outside interference, and Jews were prominent in government and business.

As I sat there in my cell, unaware that a death sentence soon would be handed down against me, I could not have recounted any personal grievances that my family members would have lodged against the government or the Muslim majority. Our family had been treated well and had prospered, first as farmers with some 50,000 acres devoted to rice, dates and Arab horses. Then, with the Ottomans, we bought and purified gold that was shipped to Istanbul and turned into coinage. The Turks were responsible in fact for changing our name to reflect our occupation-we became Khalaschi, meaning “Makers of Pure.”

I did not volunteer the information to my father that I had joined the Zionist underground. He found out several months before I was arrested when he saw me writing Hebrew and using words and expressions unfamiliar to him. He was even more surprised to learn that, yes, I had decided I would soon move to Israel myself. He was scornful. “You’ll come back with your tail between your legs,” he predicted.
About 125,000 Jews left Iraq for Israel in the late 1940s and into 1952, most because they had been lied to and put into a panic by what I came to learn were Zionist bombs. But my mother and father were among the 6,000 who did not go to Israel. Although physically I never did return to Iraq-that bridge had been burned in any event-my heart has made the journey there many, many times. My father had it right.   

About 125,000 Jews left Iraq for Israel in the late 1940s and into 1952, most because they had been lied to and put into a panic by what I came to learn were Zionist bombs.”

http://www.inminds.co.uk/jews-of-iraq.html

(Part I -Continued in next comment)

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By Inherit The Wind, July 22, 2007 at 8:45 pm Link to this comment
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cyrena on 7/22 at 5:38 pm
(457 comments total)

#88658 by Inherit The Wind on 7/22 at 8:42 am

• I guess they never MET any of of the Tunisian Jews who were forced to leave Tunisia. I have.
I guess they never met the Syrian Jews who were forced to leave Syria. I have.
I guess they never met the Persian Jews who were forced to leave Iran.  I have.
Wind….you must be pretty old, if you’ve met these Jews who were forced to leave all of these places, because while I do know that it happened….(long, long, ago) I also know that many Jews continue to live in places like Iran, Syria, Iraq, (or…at least before we destroyed that nation). There are Jews currently living in multiple others of these Middle Eastern countries as well. Now, none of these places are likely to welcome YOU, but indeed there are Jews presently living in all of the places that you’ve named.

And yep, I’ve met them.

All six of them.

I don’t know where you get your numbers but Iranian Jews have been trying to get out since 1979—how old do I have to be to know people who escaped since then?

I guess you never met Tunisian Jews who fled in the 50’s and 60’s—how old do I have to be to have met them?

I’ll bet you’ve never been to the King’s Highway areas of Brooklyn where there have been massive enclaves of Syrian Jews—my cousins had a HUGE windfall on their parents’ house after their death…

Cyrena, you must be of Arab descent because only that way could I forgive your insane, absurd, insipid bias.  You KNOW that being Jewish in ANY Arab or Moslem nation is a HUGE risk.

Actually I really just think you are a pompous idiot.

BTW: I guess you abandoned the idea that I must be female (what was THAT all about????? ) as if that was some kind of insult.  I’m not, but my wife is and she is a hell of a lot more brilliant than YOU will ever be!  Prettier too—OK, I ADMIT it: I AM biased (when it comes to her).

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By cyrena, July 22, 2007 at 7:21 pm Link to this comment

#88616 by Neoconned on 7/22 at 1:22 am

It feels like talking to a brick wall when you deal with an Israeli apologist.  I mean, how do you even begin to understand the mindset of the likes of David Ben Gurion, who prefered Jewish children to die in the death camps rather than reach safe in Britain or the US.

Neoconned….

It definitely IS like talking to a brick wall. Maybe worse, because walls generally don’t talk back, with all of this insanity. (unless they happen to be situated next to some burning bushes.)

I’ve pretty much given up.

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By cyrena, July 22, 2007 at 7:10 pm Link to this comment

ARDEE,

My guess is that n.a. is either ITW or lilmamer in drag.

N.A. is an acronym for Neurotics Anonymous, although I’m sure it serves many other functions as well. Still, that did come to mind, when I saw the handle, and read the post. Thing is, if this person really does participate in such a 12-step program, he or she has been missing their meetings.

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By cyrena, July 22, 2007 at 6:58 pm Link to this comment

#88641 by nefertiti on 7/22 at 6:26 am

•  Do you guys know why Israel is after South lebanon ? it has nothing to do with Hezbollah , yep , that s right , it is After the LITANI RIVER in the south it is all about water resources (becoming like gold in the region )


TRIPLE BINGO for you Nefertiti…

It’s definitely the water, and it’s not just NOW becoming like gold, it’s been that way a long time. Israel has been hogging the water for 60 years. (more valuable than gold actually, since you can’t drink gold.)

Stealing the land was easy. Controlling the limited supply of water is more complicated, and requires that all of the Palestinians go without.

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By cyrena, July 22, 2007 at 6:38 pm Link to this comment

#88658 by Inherit The Wind on 7/22 at 8:42 am

•  I guess they never MET any of of the Tunisian Jews who were forced to leave Tunisia. I have.
I guess they never met the Syrian Jews who were forced to leave Syria. I have.
I guess they never met the Persian Jews who were forced to leave Iran.  I have.
Wind….you must be pretty old, if you’ve met these Jews who were forced to leave all of these places, because while I do know that it happened….(long, long, ago) I also know that many Jews continue to live in places like Iran, Syria, Iraq, (or…at least before we destroyed that nation). There are Jews currently living in multiple others of these Middle Eastern countries as well. Now, none of these places are likely to welcome YOU, but indeed there are Jews presently living in all of the places that you’ve named.

And yep, I’ve met them.

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By Neoconned, July 22, 2007 at 6:28 pm Link to this comment
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It feels like talking to a brick wall when you deal with an Israeli apologist.  I mean, how do you even begin to understand the mindset of the likes of David Ben Gurion, who prefered Jewish children to die in the death camps rather than reach safe in Britain or the US.

What kind of warped sick mind does it take to reach that point of rationale, Ben Gurion reached?

There is nothing special about being Jewish any more than being part of any other religion.  If there is any distinction to be made about being Jewish, apart from cheap Tribalism, it is only the poisonous mix of Self Pity and Narcissism mixed with a disengenuos front to the western media. 

As Rabbi Yoseph says, “It is a religious duty to expel all Christians (non Jews) from the state of Israel, only if doing so would not endanger Jewish Life”.

If ever there was a SNEAKIER, cowardly, disengenuous, bizaar take on relating to other human beings…..The shear racist double talk is breath taking.  Basically, he means, we’ll kick your ass when we can be sure we won’t get hurt.  Otherwise, lets stay friends until then, or at least keep a low profile.

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By cyrena, July 22, 2007 at 6:27 pm Link to this comment

#88716 by Paolo on 7/22 at 3:59 pm

Paolo:

Great rundown on the Arab Dictator Allies. You’re right, we could add more. But, that’s enough for starters.

(the cool jazz, cool cars, though…could probably wait though, until we get some cool ways to take care of the sick, house the homeless, and feed folks with hot or cool food.) smile

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By Paolo, July 22, 2007 at 4:59 pm Link to this comment

Response to Jeremy, who said (with irony):

“Hooray for the righteous Arab dictators!”

True enough—most of the Arab world is ruled by dictators. Not that this fact has prevented American regimes from supporting them for decades.

Saudi Arabia: a dictatorship, considered our “staunch ally” (and especially, family friends of the Bush Crime Family).

Egypt: Basically a one-party dictatorship. Receives the SECOND biggest amount of foreign aid from the USA. (Israel, of course, is first).

Libya: Gaddafi is now our friend, since he provided some good propaganda feed to the Bushies through his renunciation of nuclear weapons.

Kuwait: Another family-ruled dictatorship.

Uzbekistan: not technically an Arab state, but a majority Muslim country where the ruler, Islam Karimov, gets rid of opponents by boiling them to death. And yes, he is our staunch ally.

And the list goes on and on.

Of course, we support these tyrants enthusiastically. Bet that plays really well on the Arab “street.” They also make fabulous places to “rendition” prisoners whom we want to torture, but feel we can’t quite get away with it. So we turn the poor victims over to our proxies.

And by the way, Israel DOES oppress Arabs, too. You did read the article, didn’t you?

[DISCLAIMER: my own view of the Middle East is that we shouldn’t take sides at all. There’s plenty of blame to go around, but our attempts to choose sides make matters worse. The best foreign policy, as articulated by Ron Paul, is non-interventionism. America should concentrate her efforts on making cool jazz, cool movies, cool technology, and cool cars. Concentrating her efforts on ruling the world is decidedly un-cool.]

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By ardee, July 22, 2007 at 4:47 pm Link to this comment

Jeremy,
You might read a bit deeper before letting your prejudgments overtake the realities here.

Of course, in any topic concerning the Israeli/Palestinian conflict there will be agendised folks, and you yourself are one of them.

I imagine you would accept hundreds of posts deriding the flaws and foibles of arabs yet would rise in righteous indignation at one citing of Israeli error. I have news for you Jeremy (my youngest son’s name), there is enough blame to go around for all sides in this issue. Israel, palestinians and the entire world in fact are guilty of putting their own self interests before what is right.

One might note that Israel did throw tens of thousands of legitimate residents from the newly created state of Israel, stole their ancestral farms and lands. They are also guilty of imprisoning and torturing as well. Palestinians encourage or at the very least allow terrorism to go on in their names, refusing to deal with the corruption within or the peace process without.

The world uses this crisis of over sixty years duration to its own personal ends as well. So what we do not need here is some smarmy little commentary that lacks depth or provides any illumination. But thanks for playing.

Wouldnt it be nice if , just once, we could discuss possible solutions instead of rehashing blame?

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By jeremy, July 22, 2007 at 11:58 am Link to this comment

Yay! I am so glad we all have a place to come to bash Israel! It’s really awesome.

Hooray for the righteous Arab dictators!

(because they’re not an anachronism destined to fade into history, finally swallowed up by their own people after the people finally wake up, claim their rights and realize it is not Israel that is oppressing them, it is thier own leaders)

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By P. T., July 22, 2007 at 11:45 am Link to this comment

“Why is it, as Erich Hoffer asked more than twenty years ago, that the world expects the Israelis to be the only real Christians?”


Answer:  The world obviously doesn’t expect that.  That’s why Zionist expansionism has gone on for so long—with U.S. financing.  Silly question.

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By 1DREES, July 22, 2007 at 10:45 am Link to this comment
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“Why is it, as Erich Hoffer asked more than twenty years ago, that the world expects the Israelis to be the only real Christians?”—- COZ HE WAS BEING PAID FOR IT & LATER HE DID CHANGE HIS OPINION PUBLICLY…..ZIONISTS:Ones who believe they are the “only” humans(God’s"Chosen ones”)& rest is “Trash” to be consumed / used. MODUSOPERENDI:start as business and bilk the populations while laying down Organisations that are for (fake)trade & “our
protection” whose actual purpose is surveillance & Harrassement of “nonZIONIST”. they keep screaming “Hitler’s holocaust, Hitler’s holocaust” while they been doing WORSE since 1948 in their Fanatic Fantasyland called Isreal aka “shitty little state”, armed with 300 nuclear bombs that they dont want to talk about.(these are peaceful people!lol) GOAL: creation of some nutty global empire based on pureness of “Chosen Ones” ENEMIES: anyone that
does not Comply with them or their propaganda (is also branded an Antisemite & thoroughly harassed) NETWORK: global and very developed, a well oiled machine bent on EVIL. FEARS: “EVERYBODY is out to get us because we are good!” this is the typical BRAINWASH and then they WHITEWASH real issues with PATRIOTIC LIES. Also intresting to note that Mr Vanunu who stated the true state of Israeli Nukes rots in jails since 2 decades fro speaking the truth, hence we can safely conclude that TRUTH is definately not a passion in Israel. so GOD HELP ALL THAT COME IN CONTACT WITH ZIONISTS!

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By Inherit The Wind, July 22, 2007 at 9:42 am Link to this comment
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The usual suspects with the usual propaganda.

I guess they never MET any of of the Tunisian Jews who were forced to leave Tunisia. I have.

I guess they never met the Syrian Jews who were forced to leave Syria. I have.

I guess they never met the Persian Jews who were forced to leave Iran.  I have.

Because the usual Arab-sympathizer crowd doesn’t want to acknowledge the atrocities and civil rights violations and the “ethnic cleansing” that regularly go on in their “utopia” they start the nonsense, trot out the same old suspect documents and ignore what is obvious to anyone with intellectual integrity:

Opening up Israel’s doors to every Palestinian is national suicide.  Not just political suicide, but physical suicide.  Jews will be slaughtered by the 100’s of thousands—and I’ll bet NOT ONE of the Pro-Arab symps here advocate opening THEIR nation’s doors to those Jews who will have nowhere to go.  There will be another holocaust, sanctioned by the Arab states and the fanatical mullahs.

No, the only solution to bring peace NOW is a two-state solution. Israel must empty the settlements and move Sharon’s wall back closer to the border.  Agreements MUST be hammered out on Jerusalem.  The Moslems want the Temple Mount, the Jews want the Western Wall.  NO agreement that doesn’t give each their holy sites will work.

The Arabs MUST bring the terrorists under control. The Westerners MUST bring Israeli responses under control.

But this constant call for total national suicide by Israel, which will be followed by genocide will not happen.  The “Right of Return” is nothing but a cover for the right to evict and slaughter all the Jews in the Middle East yet again.  The Palestinians cannot even live in peace with other Palestinians—how will they now live in peace with Jews?

They won’t but that’s an inconvenient truth that the usual suspects like to ignore.

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By ardee, July 22, 2007 at 8:24 am Link to this comment

I almost passed on this article only because I expected the usual litany of stupidity from both sides. Imagine my surprise to find only a scant few including this newbie n.a. to have posted such illiteracies.

Hey n.a. how do you explain the historical facts of jew , christian and moslem living side by side in that region for thousands of years? How do you explain the candlelight procession in Teheran after 9/11 in support of the US? How do you rationalise that both the oldest still active synagogue and catholic church in the Middle East to be in Baghdad?

Well you just dont because it doesnt fit in your neat little package of stupid hatreds.

Thanks, Hiram , for this cutie:
Why is it, as Erich Hoffer asked more than twenty years ago, that the world expects the Israelis to be the only real Christians?

I support a single state solution but understand that this will only come after a great time of healing has occurred, for now I would hope to see a state for the Palestinian. One supported by all nations and with defined borders to stop Israeli aggression and freedom fighters (terrorists) transgression.

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By samuel burke, July 22, 2007 at 8:12 am Link to this comment
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the zionist in israel have commited crimes against the jews living in arab lands in their effort to populate the land…by force. the jewsagainstzionism group of rabbis and orthodox have mounted a truthtelling campaign trying to show what has transpired in israel since zionism started its campaign to populate the middle east.

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/index.cfm

if you navigate their site you will find stories of jews from arab lands along with the stories from the rabbis who tried to procure aid from the world zionist organization during the war in europe and were denied.

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By nefertiti, July 22, 2007 at 7:26 am Link to this comment

Do you guys know why Israel is after South lebanon ? it has nothing to do with Hezbollah , yep , that s right , it is After the LITANI RIVER in the south it is all about water resources (becoming like gold in the region )

in 1919 in paris , during a zionist conference the Jews at the time (not israelis yet) had decided that the Litani river should be on their map as well as the Golan Heights of syria (done ) and the Jordan Valley (of jordan ) (Done ) rich in water . now they are after the Litani river (working on it ) to have plenty of water for agriculture and lawns , and pools etc… even if the neigbouring countries have to die of thirst.  right now after losing the Jordan valley , jordan has huge water problems

http://www.wrmea.com/archives/Sept_Oct_2006/0609020.html

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By samuel burke, July 22, 2007 at 6:51 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

i am really glad to see this news making headlines in the u.s more and more often. israel is a country built on lies deception and terrorism, and like the article says, noone is advocating for its demise, merely for the lying about it’s inception and the dehumanizing campaign against the palestinian populations to come to an end, and their struggle to regain their dispossessed land be rewarded with a solution. But alas, the world is united against this effort, and are pressured by organizations like aipac to suppress the truth and to opress the palestinians even more.

who says that the murder of thousands of palestinians is any less a crime than the murder of the jews in europe, murder and ethnic cleansing is a crime regardless of the number of murders commited. In world war 2 there were apprx 50 million deaths and not one is more valuable than the others. The jewish organization like to make the murder of the jews way more reprehensible than the murder of the other 45 million, they lose sight of the fact that there were way more deaths of non jews than there were of jews, either that or they believe that the death of a gentile is not as worthy of recognition.

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By Howard, July 22, 2007 at 6:39 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

When has Israel been the impediment to establishing a Palestinan state?
From 1948 to 1967 , the West Bank was admisitered by Jordan, not Israel, and a Palestinian state could have established at the stroke of a pen.  After the Six-Day War, Israel offered to return the newly acquired territories to the Arabs in exchange for recognition and peace; the response was thunderous no.
More recently Yasir Arafat was offered a state in almost all of the West Bank, Gaza and parts of Jerusalem by Ehud Barak and more generously by Bill Clinton, and turned it down becuause the offer did not include the destruction of Israel by flooding it with returning refugees.
Currently, the Palestinins are ruled by a government that is dedicated to the destruction of Israel.  What would the agenda be in the dialogue that this article addresses towards Israel, a timetable for Israel’s committing suicide?

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By weather, July 22, 2007 at 6:13 am Link to this comment

Cyrena, Congress like many of us are all suffering from attention-deficit disorder. Confront them and the Media, don’t stop - organize, focus and execute.


Israel is a petri dish of mis and disinformation, even the best liars fortified w/rom & ram memory fail in time and time and honor are truth’s best friend.

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By nefertiti, July 22, 2007 at 6:10 am Link to this comment

This is the best documenti found that shows that zionism did not want to teach the Mizarhi students about their origins and past nor allow them to talk about their Arabic past , which they became ashamed of . they did not even teach them science and math etc.. (because of their origin) but taught how to become a plumber, electrician , and other services to serve the Ashkenazis i suppose .


http://www.monitor.upeace.org/pdf/Connection_Part I.pdf

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By Neoconned, July 22, 2007 at 5:59 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

#88604 by hiram on 7/21 at 11:15 pm

As you can see…an apologist at work.

Israel may well be a bigoted nation of Baruch Goldsteins.

It feels like talking to a brick wall when you deal with an Israeli apologist.  I mean, how do you even begin to understand the mindset of the likes of David Ben Gurion, who prefered Jewish children to die in the death camps rather than reach safe in Britain or the US.

What kind of warped sick mind does it take to reach that point of rationale, Ben Gurion reached?

There is nothing special about being Jewish any more than being part of any other religion.  If there is any distinction to be made about being Jewish, apart from cheap Tribalism, it is only the poisonous mix of Self Pity and Narcissism mixed with a disengenuos front to the western media. 

As Rabbi Yoseph says, “It is a religious duty to expel all Christians (non Jews) from the state of Israel, only if doing so would not endanger Jewish Life”.
 
If ever there was a SNEAKER, cowardly, disengenuous, bizaar take on relating to other human beings…..The shear racist double talk is breath taking.  Basically, he means, we’ll kick your ass when we can be sure we won’t get hurt.  Otherwise, lets stay friends until then, or at least keep a low profile.

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By nefertiti, July 22, 2007 at 5:32 am Link to this comment

What about the right of hundreds of thousands of Jews to return to the Arab countries they were “ethically cleansed” from in 1948 as well? 
—————————————————————————
Scooter

I was listening to Mr ANdre Azoulay an Ex Minister in Morocco , He is jewish . right now he is Advisor number one to the King Mohamed 6, used to be advisor to his father Hassan 2. He said the majority Moroccan Jews who left in 1956 to France (not israel)did it for economic reasons. after France left , moroccan was poor and the infrastructure was totally destroyed .Jews from Moroccan could easily go to france and seek jobs etc ..  He said it during a press conference in Casablanca , where i lived personally for 12 years .

http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/1091/9110022.html

Did you know about Roger Bismuth A tunisian jew doing really well recently at the parliament elections in Tunisia ??

200.000 Jews living in iran right now do not want to go to Iran , even if the US media protrayed their lives miserable so many times . They were even offered Lots of money from Jewish groups they are offended

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/881714.html
Do you know that Maurice Motamed an iranian jew is a member of Parliament ? he often travels to europe but he said Home is Iran , would you believe ??

Jewish Iraqi Samir Naqqash , during a documentary said he never wanted to leave Baghdad , he was happy. he always spoke in Arabic till his death , he performed in Arabic , never wanted to change his name , he said the Jewish Agency took him to israel after Handcuffing him.  he said if we stayed , who would populate israel , they needed people to make the numbers grow . they needed the Arab jews as cheap labour too. Ella Habiba shohat ,moussa huri joined Mr Naqqash in his documentary “the Arabs we never about”

Naiem Giladi also an iraqi jew says the same thing . he blamed Israel for creating fear in Iraq for bombing jewish cafes , and centres to cause panic and people to leave . he was a journalist and has enough documents to blame Mordechai Ben porat to be responsible (ben porat is now a Knesset member in israel )
Mr Giladi wrote a book (still forbidden in israel and the US )  called : Ben Gurion scandals and how the Hagannah eliminated Jews .  (I have a copy and it is interesting to see how many Jewish families were involved in scaring other jews for the sake of israel )
he said he was a zionist and worked underground but later he did like like what he saw . and left .

http://www.doublestandards.org/giladi1.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Trfxfl45ono

http://www.forgetbaghdad.com/index.php?topic=naqqash

This is jewish Arab Ella habiba shohat speaks of thier lives in Iraq

http://www.bintjbeil.com/E/occupation/arab_jew.html

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By E.H., July 22, 2007 at 4:43 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Based on personal testimonies I have heard from people in the Lod area of Israel, as well as my own reading, Barry Lando’s article is succinct and accurate, and I agree with his analysis.

I have been in Israel several times; I have spent much time in the occupied territories; and I have witnessed the cruelty and inhuman treatment of Palestinians by settlers and by the Israeli army. What happened in the late 40’s in Israel—the expulsion, ethnic cleansing, and “encouragement” of Palestinians to leave their homes and their villages—is still on-going today in the occupied territories and, to an extent, in Arab-Israeli villages. In the occupied territories, Palestinians’ livelihood is all too often devastated by Israeli settlers who uproot Arab crops, destroy livestock, and take over Arab lands illegally, under the rubric of “national security”—the catch-phrase the seems to justify so many actions in Israel…

It is difficult to understand how the Israelis, a people who themselves have undergone such tragic suffering based in antisemitism, can practice inhumanity toward other people largely based on religious and ethnic differences.

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By cyrena, July 22, 2007 at 4:30 am Link to this comment

Here’s another excellent report that compliments the excellent one that Barry (and truthdig) have provided for us.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/071907G.shtml

For Weather:

I’m going to do exactly as you’ve said, and writeto Congress on this. I’m also going to writeto my favorite candidates, and ask them to SPECIFICALLY address this issue. Admittedly, I don’t expect much. According to the above article, Congress hates the Palestinians as much as the administration does, if not more.

So, maybe we should force ALL prospective candidates for ANY office, to provide us with their position on the conflict, and what they propose as the U.S. position.

That should be a good way to whittle the list down.

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By nefertiti, July 22, 2007 at 4:29 am Link to this comment

What should the USA do that would be in it’s best interest, not Israel’s or Palestinians. Answer: steer clear. Why? Because some Jews want to kill all Muslims, and some Muslins want to kill all Jews, and they are neighbors.Thus, there can be no peace in Palestine.It’s hopeless.

———————————————————
Dick
i do not agree with your post. Palestinians do not want to kill for the sake of killing , they are occupied and want to be free . Israelis have Beautiful Rich Israel , why cant they dismantle the settlments that according to internationl law and geneva conventions are illegal settlments . take them to israel and build a wall there not on Palestinian land and farms . dismantle the 750 checkpoints that are making life hell for the palestinians .  palestinian school kids can wait 3 hours every day each way to cross checkpoints to go to school , or work ,  or even the nearest hospital . women had to give birth like animals behind bushes at checkpoints , where russian soldiers (oops israelis ) smoke , laugh and txt messages on their mobiles . i have seen a few documentaries that could make one sick even a hardened zionist fan .  68 babies have died at those checkpoints recently according to Btselem . settlers abuse the water resources , to water their beautiful lawns and gardens and have pools , and the palestinians dont have enough to drink of water their tomatoes plants .
i could go on and on and on .  AMerica should put real pressure on the Israel , dimantle the settlements move them to the Negev or to israel , and end the Occuapation . ALlow freedom to the palestinians so they can have a homeland , (right now the power they have is fake . any 19 years old kid at the checkpoint is more powerful than Mahmoud Abbas because he will decide if he could go through or not )

I suggest you google Hebron Diaries by Shaul Yehuda , a diary written by an IDF OFFIcer this might open your eyes a little . Please do , just for curiosity sake .

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By nefertiti, July 22, 2007 at 4:20 am Link to this comment

Why didn’t the Muslims take in their brother Muslims like Israel did the 700,000 Jews kicked out of their ancestral homes?
—————————————————————
because there are UN resolutions , and the Geneva conventions that support that ANy refugiee has the right to return home .  those who settled somewhere else was a few hundreds years ago but nowadays the UN allows refugiees the right to go home .

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By nefertiti, July 22, 2007 at 4:17 am Link to this comment

There’s someplace in “the Bible” that kind of allows them to do whatever they want
—————————————————————————-
Mudowollow , the bible put conditions if they followed the torah properly , if they respected the synaguogues if they did not steal or cheat in business , if they only worshipped god alone and not a golden calf they made themselves , etc….  therefore , they could not stay in the holyland and were forbidden from it and had to be scattered among nations until Yahweh decides for the right time , that s why many Ultra Orthodox jews do not support the creation of Israel which they say is a sin and against the Torah

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By weather, July 22, 2007 at 4:02 am Link to this comment

Ah Israel what a lovely little zip code.

Israel is a rolodex of manipulating myths. Just look at the ‘Jewish vote’ myth. The actual head count fits on a postage stamp. The Jewish money that skews the vote? That is a disproportionate disgrace.

If you can no longer tolerate the deceit that is Israel today. Writeand scream to Congress it does work. Confront every form of Media and by ALL and any means buy NO Israeli goods including the American companies that have any kind of facility there i.e., IBM regrettably.

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By cyrena, July 22, 2007 at 3:05 am Link to this comment

#88604 by hiram on 7/21 at 11:15 pm
Hiram writes:

....“These include Israeli Christians and other religions who would have to be crazy to welcome some hundreds of thousands Muslim hostiles into their country. Why don’t their brother Muslims take them in as Israel did the 700,000 Jews kicked out of their ancestral homes by Arabs in 1948.

Here’s more typical Zionist apologies and accusations. Why didn’t the Muslims take in their brother Muslims like Israel did the 700,000 Jews kicked out of their ancestral homes?

Hiram…WHAT 700,000 Jews, and WHAT “ancestral homes”? Where did all of these Jews come from, that were allegedly kicked out of their ancestral homes? WHAT ancestral homes? Were they “ancestral homes” that Arabs were also living in…like FIRST? Like, BEFORE they were run out. It seems to me, (based on hundreds of historical accounts) that when the Jews first started moving into Palestine en mass, (prior to 1948) the Palestinians already living there for the previous 1000 years, were perfectly accepting of these newcomers, as were the Christians and Jews who also happened to be there at the time. They didn’t start getting real worked up, until they found themselves taken over by these “newcomers”. The rest is history, but the article explains it very well.

And, it doesn’t hold to your question that Muslims should have “taken in” their brothers, when….AT THE TIME, there was no “Jordan” or Lebanon, which could be considered an “Arab” state. Those are ALL artificial borders, and I would say that they HAVE INDEED taken them in. Have you noticed the multiple concentration/refugee camps scattered about the area?

You also suggested that the Christians and “other” religions of Israel would have to be crazy to welcome some hundreds of thousands of “hostile” Muslims to their state. That’s basically stupid, and not even the issue. If you read the article, you would know that nearly 60 years later, there are relatively few Palestinian refugees who would even WANT to return to Israel proper. They DO want their own state however, that is not ruled by the Israeli military. And, when they build homes in Gaza or the West Bank, they don’t want Israel to send their tanks to demolish them.

So, you’re missing the point. I cannot accept that anybody wants anything more from the Israelis, than for them to recognize the international laws, including those that uphold Human Rights. So, WHY would any Muslim, (hostile or not) really want to return to what has been the “state of Israel” for the past 60 years?

Peace is possible if Israel withdraws to her 1967 borders, and STAYS there, without interfering with anybody else.

This is equally stupid….

…”Why is it, as Erich Hoffer asked more than twenty years ago, that the world expects the Israelis to be the only real Christians.”

Because, the answer is…NOBODY expects the Israelies to be the only Christians. Matter of fact, I don’t need for them to be “Christians” at all. They can be anything they want, as long as they follow the laws, and don’t keep taking billions from the American taxpayers.

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By cyrena, July 22, 2007 at 2:34 am Link to this comment

#88577 by Georgia Whitman on 7/21 at 7:17 pm

Georgia:

Excellent point about Pape’s book. The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine. I read it myself, and was very impressed by the amount of information and research that he had done. All should read it, but of course, they won’t.

Even today, as we speak and blog, I can provide several examples of Zionists, (even young ones) who will automatically sprout that Ilan Pape is just a “hack”, because that’s what their Zionist parents apparently teach them at home, (before they even reach the academic communities)and so they won’t even consider something like Ilan Pape, unless they are REQUIRED to read it. Even then, they will only do the reading from the antagonistic and biased viewpoint, from which they have been nursed.

The GOOD news, is that they do number in the minority, and the majority of American Jews do not subscribe to such thinking. (at least not the ones I’ve come into contact with in my years of serving the public, or in the academic communities.

If we just get all of those Zionists re-located to their special state -Israel- and maybe even help them finish walling THEMSELVES in, (to their own special colony)we might be able to re-unite the rest of the world, who is accepting of the international rules of engagement.

Israel isn’t going to do that, but we can get rid of their influence in our OWN country, and go back to our own blueprint,(the Constitution) and that will take care of US. Israel is clearly not our responsibility, and hanging out with Israel gives us an equally bad reputation.

Time to cut those apron strings, (the billions that we give them) and let them just be “The Chosen People” all on their own. With God on their side, they don’t need US.

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By Neoconned, July 22, 2007 at 2:22 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

#88604 by hiram on 7/21 at 11:15 pm

As you can see…an apologist at work.

Israel may well be a bigoted nation of Baruch Goldsteins.

It feels like talking to a brick wall when you deal with an Israeli apologist.  I mean, how do you even begin to understand the mindset of the likes of David Ben Gurion, who prefered Jewish children to die in the death camps rather than reach safe in Britain or the US.

What kind of sick warped mind does it take to reach that point of rationale, Ben Gurion reached?

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By Neoconned, July 22, 2007 at 1:15 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

regarding Lilmamzer and her tactics

Passing strange are the ways of the right wing apologists.  There is something unique about Israeli apologists that you won’t find anywhere (I think).  They have an almost pathological way of lying through their teeth while playing the Victim Card. Even as they conduct, defend, and execute right wing policies.  They make a point of flagging up their uniquness and moral superiority by way of being Jews - as all 6 billion of us know, were sanctioned by GOD from time immemorial.  But feel persecuted when no one believes their rather infantile spin and double talk.  And subsequently accuse people of not critisizing other nations on an equal footing.  This three ring circus of middle class moral dispensations and gangster policies and conduct, finally spews forth in a convoluted Self Pitying cry for their own dead, while standing on the corps of a palestinian child. 

Naturally anyone (even fellow Jews) who see though all the double talk and blatant lies is evil and a nazi.  God forbid you should even accuse some Israelis of behaving like Nazis. 

Heaven Forbid.  The irony would kill us all.

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By hiram, July 22, 2007 at 12:15 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Everybody likes to slam the Jews but let’s be real. The word is not Jews but Israelis. These include Israeli Christians and other religions who would have to be crazy to welcome some hundreds of thousands Muslim hostiles into their country. Why don’t their brother Muslims take them in as Israel did the 700,000 Jews kicked out of their ancestral homes by Arabs in 1948?
Jordanians are Palestinians. They have plenty of land, land originally part of the mandate but cheated from Israel by the British. Let them build collective farms as the Israelis did and make the desert bloom like Israel does.
The real reason Muslim Arabs hate Israel is because it teaches that by collective hard work a decent egalitarian society with freedom even for women can be achieved. But in such a society the ayatollahs and the imams and the sheiks and the effendis have no power and Islam can’t have that.
Why is it, as Erich Hoffer asked more than twenty years ago, that the world expects the Israelis to be the only real Christians?

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By kevin99999, July 21, 2007 at 11:48 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Israel has no interest in peace. They want to grab more and more lands and continue their terrorist policy. And as long as U.S. involved in the peace process as Israeli’ ally, there will be no peace.

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By cyrena, July 21, 2007 at 11:37 pm Link to this comment

#88516 by Neoconned on 7/21 at 1:08 pm

•  I expect LILMAMZER will be typing up an excuse even as I writefrom the offices of the Mossad. 
Let’s see what this right wing apologist has to say.  I’m sure it’s going to be a beaut.

#88583 by RickinSF on 7/21 at 8:00 pm

•  Is lilmamzer posting as n.a.?
I see a similarity.

#88515 by n.a. on 7/21 at 1:00 pm
I’m not going to repeat anything from this posting, because RickinSF is right, it’s all very similar to what we’ve been reading for a while now. And, we all expected a response from him/her, that would sound something like this.

Scooter is the backup.#88518 by Scooter on 7/21 at 1:12 pm

He says the article lacks context, and he’s worried about all of the Jews that were allegedly “cleansed” from other “homes” in the Middle East. Another attempted diversion that defies the facts of history, since there are still Jews in all of those places.

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By waxman, July 21, 2007 at 9:28 pm Link to this comment

THE ONLY WAY THE PROBLEM CAN BE SOLVED IS FOR SEAN HANNITY, DICK MORRIS AND THEIR CRONIES TO BE PUT TOTALLY IN CHARGE FOR THE NEXT DECADE…..

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By RickinSF, July 21, 2007 at 9:00 pm Link to this comment

Is lilmamzer posting as n.a.?
I see a similarity.

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By Georgia Whitman, July 21, 2007 at 8:17 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The 1948 ethnic cleansing or Nakba (Catastrophe) as the Palestinians call this tragedy, was the culmination of a plan that began in the late 19th century, way before the Holocaust. The only problem with this article is that it leaves out a very important Israeli historian Ian Pappe, the author the The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine. This is a very important book that documents the entire planning process using as source material interviews of those who carried out the plans and David Ben Guirion’s diary. Golda Meir was involved as well. What the Zionists wanted was pure Jewish state, to build an economy that did not require Palestinian labor.

Ilan Pappe official website
http://www.ilanpappe.org/
50th anniversary of The Nakba http://www.alnakba.org/
(the chronology is an eye opener)

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By Paolo, July 21, 2007 at 7:55 pm Link to this comment

My view, as a libertarian (but registered Democrat)is that America’s best course of action in the Middle East is: hands off! Meddling in the internal affairs of the Middle East only makes matters worse.

Having said that, however, I would argue, as a dispassionate outside observer with no ax to grind, that Israel has a lot of tough questions to answer, as brought up in this very good article.

1) If Jews are allowed instantaneous citizenship, the second they set foot in Israel, as part of the “right of return,” why is not a similar citizenship granted to Palestinian Muslims and Christians? [Answer: that would change the demographics. Christians and Muslims would outnumber and outvote Jews, who nonetheless would remain a sizeable minority. But sharing power is, for them, out of the question.]

2) As the article pointed out, David Ben-Gurion said Israel should expand and control the entire Levant. Is this not a threat of invasion? Why is it that Israel is given a pass on threats of invasion, while Muslim countries (such as, for example, Iran) are threatened (seriously) with being NUKED, even though they have invaded no other country? Hmmmmmm?

3) How can Israel claim to be the “only democracy” in the Middle East, when displaced Palestinians have no right to return to their original homes? Isn’t this like South Africa claiming to be a “democracy”, even though only whites could vote (back in the 1980’s and before)?  Israel is not a “democracy” in any realistic sense of the word. It is most properly called either a “theocracy” or an “ethnocracy”, depending on how you define “being Jewish.”

But again, this tangled mess is not the concern of the USA. Ron Paul has it right: the best course for US foreign policy is NON-INTERVENTIONISM.

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By P. T., July 21, 2007 at 7:51 pm Link to this comment

One of the odd things is that the East European Zionists are descendants of Khazar Turk converts to Judaism.

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By Mudwollow, July 21, 2007 at 6:44 pm Link to this comment

I don’t think you’re allowed to say this about Israel. There’s someplace in “the Bible” that kind of allows them to do whatever they want. Many evangelicals support “the Bible’s” special rules regarding people who choose to call themselves Jewish, including recent converts. It’s not too different from the immaculate conception, the resurrection or any other bit of preposterous horse crap that comes out of religious fanatic asses. The Bible/Torah/Koran said it so it must be true.

Can’t we find an island for all these religious fanatics, Christian, Jewish, Muslim or whatever? Let them hash it out amongst themselves. It doesn’t matter which religion wins by killing off the other religions, the winning religion will soon splinter and start killing off each other. Fun for all.

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By P. T., July 21, 2007 at 6:01 pm Link to this comment

For excellent information on Zionist collaboration with the Nazis, click http://www.counterpunch.org/brenner1223.html

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By dick, July 21, 2007 at 5:16 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

What should the USA do that would be in it’s best interest, not Israel’s or Palestinians. Answer: steer clear. Why? Because some Jews want to kill all Muslims, and some Muslins want to kill all Jews, and they are neighbors.Thus, there can be no peace in Palestine.It’s hopeless.

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By 1drees, July 21, 2007 at 5:10 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

ZIONISTS:Ones who believe they are the “only” humans(God’s"Chosen ones”)& rest is “Trash” to be consumed / used. MODUSOPERENDI:start as business and bilk the populations while laying down Organisations that are for (fake)trade & “our protection” whose actual purpose is surveillance & Harrassement of “nonZIONIST”. they keep screaming “Hitler’s holocaust, Hitler’s holocaust” while they been doing WORSE since 1948 in their Fanatic Fantasyland called Isreal aka “shitty little state”, armed with 300 nuclear bombs that they dont want to talk about.(these are peaceful people!lol) GOAL: creation of some nutty global empire based on pureness of “Chosen Ones” ENEMIES: anyone that does not Comply with them or their propaganda (is also branded an
Antisemite & thoroughly harassed) NETWORK: global and very developed, a well oiled machine bent on EVIL. FEARS: “EVERYBODY is out to get us because we are good!” this is the typical brainwash and then they
WHITEWASH real issues with PATRIOTIC LIES. Also intresting to note that Mr Vanunu who stated the true state of Israeli Nukes rots in jails since 2 decades for speaking the truth, hence we can safely conclude
that TRUTH is definately not a passion in Israel. so GOD HELP ALL THAT COME IN CONTACT WITH ZIONISTS! especially the PALESTINIANS.

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By GodSend, July 21, 2007 at 4:53 pm Link to this comment

Rather than passing judgment, let’s let Yahweh deal with His Chosen People in His own way! He’s done it before - He can do it again! No need to get the whole world’s knickers in a twist.

Of course, it’s entirely possible that after He metes out His judgment, nobody will be interested in claiming their ‘right of return’?! wink

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By THOMAS BILLIS, July 21, 2007 at 4:41 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Why don’t the Israeli’s do what the United States did .Put them on inhospitable land and give them casinos.My point being we are more than happy to believe myths since we have had our own.

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By Scooter, July 21, 2007 at 2:12 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

This article lacks context.  What about the right of hundreds of thousands of Jews to return to the Arab countries they were “ethically cleansed” from in 1948 as well?  Would they get a right to return to Syria, Iran, Iraq, North African countries—or even areas in what is now the West Bank that had large concentrations of Jews?  Of course not.  Since when, in any war, has this “right of return” ever been honored, or even considered?  I cannot think of one single example.  Trying to pin a mythical “Holocaust” on the Jews, in the context of the Arab world trying to annihilate the Jewish state at the dawn of its existence, is such a low blow I now question the veracity of other articles on this website I used to think had integrity.

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By Neoconned, July 21, 2007 at 2:08 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I expect LILMAMZER will be typing up an excuse even as I writefrom the offices of the Mossad. 

Let’s see what this right wing apologist has to say.  I’m sure it’s going to be a beaut.

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By n.a., July 21, 2007 at 2:00 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Here is good summary of really happened in the Middle East: http://www.terrorismawareness.org/what-really-happened/

Palestinians celebrate 9/11 attack:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyaixXr6PvI

Since 1945, the number of Muslims killed by other Muslims outnumbers those killed by Israelis by a factor that far exceeds 100-1. source: http://www.nysun.com/pf.php?id=55137&v=9335610811
_______________________________

Arabic proverb says “first comes Saturday, then Sunday.” It means that Arabs will exterminate Jews before they exterminate Christians. It also means that Israel is the first line of defense against Islam. Question: How many moderate Muslims gave money to victims of Islamic terrorism? The answer is at the end of this post.

Name any area of achievement, any field of human endeavour — patents filed, literacy, quality of life, degree of civil or political freedoms, transparency, world-class universities, and so on. In every case, the nations of Islam are at or near the bottom in every category, and only barely beat sub-Saharan Africa in overall performance. source: http://www.islam-watch.org/Others/Why-Muslims-doomed-to-fail.htm

Islam has the world’s record of genocide. Its victims, over more than 1,350 years, number in the hundreds of millions, many more than the victims of the Holocaust and World Communism combined. Muslim genocide is still ongoing in the Sudan, Ivory Cost. Mauritania, Somalia, the Philippines, Indonesia, and, to a lesser extent in other Muslim countries. source: http://allaboutmuhammad.com/page15.html

The Muslim world does not accept non-Muslim immigrants. In fact, it is becoming more homogenous as Islamic regimes drive out religious minorities or whittle them down through other means of attrition. Even Muslims who feel entitled to life in the West often decry the presence of foreigners in Muslim lands. source: http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/homeland.php?id=1072859

The answer: Exactly the same number of moderate Nazis gave money to victims of Holocaust. Islam must be eradicated to prevent another world war.

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By P. T., July 21, 2007 at 1:47 pm Link to this comment

The indigenous Palestinian people (Canaanites) have long been beleaguered.

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By P. T., July 21, 2007 at 1:37 pm Link to this comment

There is another problem legally.  Under international law, Palestinian leaders making a peace deal cannot sign away the right of return because that is an individual human right.  Such a deal would be legally null and void.

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