#84151 by cyrena on 7/05 at 2:11 am
(247 comments total)

That doesn’t sound far fetched to me...as a matter of fact the BILLIONS we waste on Israel is what sounds far fetched to me (in the unbelievable catagory).

Another option in regards to Mexico would be us getting uninvolved in their government. We could also close the border and allow all the Mexican’s who vote with their feet to stay home and fight the damn revolution that country has needed for hundreds of years. Mexico is yet another example of a nation where the population is not being served by it’s government. I know the feeling…

Talk and voting and protest can only go so far. It obviously hasn’t gone anywhere for Mexico. For us, we just keep moving backward, more so when we are busy just talking etc… So, what options are really left?

It won’t be our government that saves us that much is for certain.

B

http://b-political.blogspot.com/

#83889 by ~B~ on 7/04 at 8:25 am

~b~

Thanks for the observations. I agree entirely, that the US population is not just California or Texas, (thank God) and I have in fact lived in multiple other locations. So, I know that the immigrant population is everywhere. I think my main point, was that hispanics didn’t just “arrive” here, and from a geographical perspective, it probably shouldn’t be a surprise, that there might be a large percentage of people from what are geographically “neighboring” states.

So, from that perspective, it means that among ALL of the continually immigrating population, they are far more likely to be the “illegal” ones. (all of the others are coming in via more “controlled” ports...ships of the air and sea...since we don’t have any Russians, or Europeans, or Indians swimming or walking over. So, they are in fact more “monitored” (and are readily given “papers” but still not any less of an “immigrant”.) Still, you’re right. I’ve definitely come to appreciate the huge problems that have become associated with this massive immigration, because it HAS caused major social problems within our communities, if only because it has come down to a matter of fighting for resources, (such as jobs, housing, and government services) because the basic foundation upon which all human behavior is founded, can pretty much be summed up in the need and the will to survive.

So, I have a proposal. Say re-cycle the “Just say no” campaign, and we -just say no- to all of the billions in charity, that we give to Isreal. We could take say 75% of that money, and develope jobs and stuff for all of our own legal citizens. We could take the other 25% of it, and invest it in....YOU GUESSED....MEXICO!!!

If we could put those dollars in Mexico, (in honest hands) and develope jobs, and housing, and the agricultural industry, and the tourist industy, (if they want one)and even boost them in their science and technology fields. Imagine that. With an economy of their own, they wouldn’t have to be sneaking into the US, and a bunch of them that are already here, might just take delight in the idea of returning home voluntarily.

Now I know that probably seems far-fetched, but maybe because we’ve just never tried that. So, do you think that’s at least a possible consideration?

Dear REaders,

Let’s not forget that all of us arrived here as people with a dream from another land. My grandparents came with the clothes on their back and a lot of interest in “making it”. They succeeded because they wanted something better and knew the alternative. I live in Colorado where we have a large hispanic population, we are neighbors, friends, families that are a strong and happy community. If we can’t learn to live and play together and appreciate each other the world will become an ugly place.

Keep in mind that the federal gov’t ignored people crossing the border for years, until “immigrants” become a “dirty word”. Let’s give those that want to be Americans the same opportunity we were afforded.

#83793 by cyrena on 7/03 at 10:02 pm

I have a couple of observations regarding this post…

“In reality, Mexicans have ALWAYS been here. I was born and raised in Southern California, and Mexicans have been here all my life,...”

While that may be true this is not the nation of California (or Texas). I live in the midwest in a small town like area heavy with tourism. I grew up with legal and illegal immigrants from Poland and other eastern Europeans - a couple hundred in my area tops. This was but a small portion of the population of actual citizens.

Today, life is ENTIRELY different. Our population is nearly triple. Yet, the census population of citizens here is mostly unchanged. Where are all of these folks coming from? Mexico, Russia, Ukraine, Thailand, Poland, Belarus, and on and on. Population wise, the foreign workers are half mexican half everything else. These workers are illegals, quasi-legals, and legals -----and cheap. So it isn’t just about the middle class feeling the pinch. [Though seeing it discussed on television may be]

“I just hate to have folks misinformed as to the belief that it is THEY who are responsible for our woes. Because...it’s not all them. “

VERY true. As that goes, it mainly boils down to the Federal Government. Immigration is their mandate. The problem isn’t the illegal workers per se - it is our federal government that refuses to enforce the mandates it doesn’t want to. Fair employment, fair housing, immigration, regulation of the food supply, financial systems and markets, media, the list goes on - the government is our true problem. This does not mean we leave the millions of illegal workers in place. They will unfortunately have to be part of our problem in fixing the federal government - if this is possible.

B

http://b-political.blogspot.com/

#83816 by THOMAS BILLIS on 7/04 at 2:51 am

If you had left the adjective at pissed instead of pissy you would be closer to the truth.My description is fucking angry.

I love it. Mine too!!!

*******************************

Verne, your’s too, was especially good…
#83433 by Verne Arnold on 7/03 at 6:37 am

You make me tired all over with your tripe.  A “pissy” electorate...give me a break and what the “F” is your point?

**********************

You guys made me feel SO much better. Guess we’re all a bit on the testy side. Poor EJ.

#83521 by beelzabush666 on 7/03 at 10:30 am

...."But, it doesn’t seem like they’re thinking about the millions of blue collar workers, skilled and experienced who have seen wages and benefits decline for years in the face of this massive influx of illegals....”

Beelzabush666,

This was the thing I was trying to point out earlier..In reality, Mexicans have ALWAYS been here. I was born and raised in Southern California, and Mexicans have been here all my life, even before I was. I lived in Texas for nearly two decades, (self imposed prison) and there were always a lot of Mexicans there as well.

And, there didn’t get to be a problem, until about 6 years ago. Before then, we weren’t all that reved-up about it, which is exactly the reason it became a problem. Because in reality, the benefits and wages for the middle class worker in this country has been declining for years, specifically for anyone in the corporate slavehood. And, they’ve been declining, so that the corps could make TONS more profit. And, they have.

These construction companies, and all of the agricultural giants, have always PREFERRED to hire them, where there is no concern for benefits, (not even the minimal state or federal benefits) they don’t have to give them sick days, vacation days, health care, or even the minimum wage. They can work them for as many hours as they want, and they even work the kids. They don’t have to be concerned about safety codes, or any sorts of compensation, because of course these people will NOT “complain” about such treatment, because they don’t want to loose the little bit that they’re getting.

So, that’s why they work the sweatshops, and do these huge government projects for private contractors. And, they clean office buildings and hotels for the same reasons. And these contractors and subcontractors would RATHER pay the fines for employing undocumented workers, because of course...it’s a hell of a lot cheaper than paying US.

So, they aren’t the reason that “middle class” jobs are no longer available, to “english-only” speaking people. Those were already in rapid decline, even before this most recent influx of the past few years.

It didn’t help that so many US Corporations, like Coca-Cola and Ford, decided to move major operations down there, but WITHOUT hiring any of the locals, and when they did, it was always for peanuts. So, that pretty much chased them up here.

And, oddly enough, (something folks probably don’t give much thought to) the US admits close to 3,000 “ailens” per day, from nearly any of the European nations, WITHOUT A QUESTION. As long as their white, it’s alright. No problems for Canadians coming across either. They don’t need any special paperwork. So, you have to admit, that there is a bit of a double standard there. Not that I have anything against Canadians, but there’s definitely a difference in how we treat our “aliens”.

Now, there’s really no reason why the American Corps that own so much business in Mexico, couldn’t hire THEM, to work there, and pay them a livable wage. But, they don’t. Still, it might be easier to convince the US Corps to hire them down there, so they wouldn’t have to come here.

Admittedly, they’ve even started getting on MY nerves, and I never thought I’d say that. So yeah, something will have to change. I just hate to have folks misinformed as to the belief that it is THEY who are responsible for our woes. Because...it’s not all them.

My god, this isn’t “rocket science”, when the middle class is given a breather and feels that there is confidence again in the leadership of this country, they will restart the economy. Don’t forget the middle class is the glue that holds our economy together. WIth everyone feeling like to sky is falling this country is in a terrible state and in fact, in trouble. We need to return this country to the people and rescue it from the conservative lunatics in D.C. I have never seen such a bunch a bad liars like these guys in my life.

“When people are feeling more secure about their own situations, they’re more willing to welcome others,” he said in a follow-up interview Monday. “If we had moved first to address the middle class’ anxieties, we would have had a much better chance of success…

Well, NO SHIT!!! And it took him HOW long to figure this out??

We didn’t begin having all of this overwhelming hostility to undocumented workers until...well, after we got hijacked, and the middle class started falling fast. That’s what ALWAYS happens in an economically depressed society...people start fighting over resources, and when it becomes as lopsided as it has, with the gap between the Oligarchy and “all the rest of us”, folks start getting real testy. And, because that is SO predictable, there’s no reason in the world, why somebody “in charge” wouldn’t have known that. It just didn’t matter.

And, far too many middle class Americans who have become “disenfranchised” themselves during these dark years, can only look to these immigrants as the “reason” for their troubles, when in fact the immigration explosion is also of our own making.
The Oligarchy took over Mexico’s economy long ago, and the Mexican leadership did nothing to stop it. So basically, they (the immigrants) are HERE, because the Corps and their “fair trade”, have made it impossible for them to survive THERE.

Still, when it comes to food, housing, jobs, etc, etc...all the basics that have somehow slipped out of reach even for long term “middle classers”, the first place to look is at those “immigrants”.

Outlaw secrecy, wire the politicians, the senior bureacrats and CEO’s to the Internet and everything would change.

Pay particular attention to those smoke-filled back-rooms.

I’m amazed at how the Dem party leaders just don’t get it. Are they still the party of the working class? The GOP sure isn’t! I’ve always admired the likes of Ted Kennedy for their commitment to helping the poor and vulnerable and making life better for all Americans, not just the rich. But, it doesn’t seem like they’re thinking about the millions of blue collar workers, skilled and experienced who have seen wages and benefits decline for years in the face of this massive influx of illegals. And please don’t call us bigots or xenophobes. This has nothing to do with ethnicity or skin color. Most of the Mexicans who are coming here are fine, hardworking, family oriented people who would be welcome additions to a community if they did not sneak in and take the jobs of Americans who are also hardworking family oriented people. Don’t tell me the building trades are jobs Americans wont do. Until recently these were good paying jobs with benefits and job security. the purpose of an immigration policy is to allow appropriate numbers of qualified deserving people to come here and enrich our society just like our ancestors have, at the same time regulated so as not to cause social and economic problems for the people already here. We don’t have that now, and the Federal government is chiefly to blame. What is their agenda ?

The idea that “government can’t do anything right” is of course stupid; I could give many examples to the contrary.  It is spread by conservatives just as an excuse to undermine all the liberals’ government entitlement programs that redistribute wealth downward, since what conservatives are really after is redistributing wealth upward.  But Democrats could easily get around that idea and still help ordinary people.  All they’d have to do is start thinking outside the box they have gotten stuck in ever since FDR, of solving ordinary people’s various problems with loads of complex government programs, one for each problem.  Almost all of those various problems boil down to one problem: not enough money.  The way to solve it is by raising taxes on the rich in order to pay for massive tax cuts for everyone else, even complete elimination of all taxes they have to pay.  Keep the message to voters simple: “If elected, we will give **YOU** more money by eliminating **YOUR** taxes.” I find it hard to believe that that wouldn’t be wildly popular with the lower 99% of voters whose taxes would be drasticly cut or eliminated, and it would actually help them greatly.  Even the poor pay 20% of their incomes in various local, state and federal taxes, on average.  If politically possible, beyond merely eliminating all taxes for the middle class and poor, there could be a graduated negative income tax for the lower middle class and poor, the less income you have the more you get.  When conservatives scream “socialism!!!!” to try to scare people, point out that the economy grows when more money is put into the hands of consumers, and how it was doing better BEFORE Bush’s far-right policies.  Scare them back by screaming “Great Depression!!!!”, which is what happened last time we had policies like Bush’s, and which we may be heading for again.

In recent decades Democrats have started promoting some tax cuts—but only an array of complex highly targeted tax cuts, once again to solve various specific problems, not the overall problem that wealth is getting increasingly concentrated.  That’s the dumbest strategy ever!  Spread the tax cuts around to as many voters as possible to get their votes, the way Bush did with his ridiculous $300 tax cut.

~B~ has sid it very eloquently. Why can’t you Washington Pundits get the meanig of: “ ILL--legal? Why do we have a problem with sealing our southern border? Yup, you’re right Lou Dobbs speaks the populist lingo and if i remember right the majority rules. If you feel so guilty over the terrible asticities of the Mexican people, yes I feel for them, also, go to Mexico and help them unionize and get clean water, shelter...oh afraid of being shot by the goverment? Get real!

the Feds tried to bargain with us. Give us this amnesty deal and we promise to start enforcing the borders and prosecuting employers who break the law and hire illegals. A half hearted promise at that. How about lets start enforcing the laws already on the books. Show us you are serious and then we’ll talk about what to do with the 12 million already here. Anyone who thinks this massive influx of cheap labor isnt hurting American workers must be a journalist or some other profession immune from outsourcing. Ask the computer professionals forced to train their replacements. another five years of this and there wont be any middle class left save managers and professionals. This issue needs to be addressed by the Dem Candidates (the Repuiblicans are already toast), or we’ll end up with an independent populist candidate

A Pissy Electorate Gets Us Nowhere

By E.J. Dionne

You make me tired all over with your tripe.  A “pissy” electorate...give me a break and what the “F” is your point?

Pablum...is this what we need?  Pablum?

Screw it...................

Truthdig, I think you need some fresh blood.  E.J.Dion and Marie Coco-puffs...oh please!

“The United States is a cranky nation in a crabby mood.”

Only you Dionne would call outrage and moral indignation “pissy”, “cranky”, and “crabby”. Would you please just go put on your GO DEMZ cheerleader outfit and get it over with?

This isn’t about racism this is about doing what is right for the citizens of the nation. No, not the Mexican nation, the United States. This issue right here BLATANTLY shows where the Democratic party loyalty truly lies. The “party of the people” does not represent the people. They are beholden to business interests who LOVE cheap labor, weakened/dead unions, and the control job insecurity gives. Nothing freezes wages like another 10 million illegals!!!

WAKE UP! Unless Individual states demand real solutions I see none forthcoming.

“And the strongest arguments in the restrictionists’ arsenal played on a widespread belief that the federal government was too incompetent to enforce whatever tough provisions the bill contained.”

BINGO!

“Bayh pointed to poor planning for the Iraq War and the failure to rebuild New Orleans after Katrina as leading inevitably to skepticism. “A government that’s going to permit that is suddenly going to know how to make an entirely new employment system work?” Bayh asked.”

Umm the fact that MILLIONS of illegals made it here in the first place and were allowed to infiltrate across the entire nation while the Federal Government was doing nothing to stop them. Or maybe the fact that they can’t balance a budget. Or how about the fact that they can’t even stop a lawyer with TB who is on the watchlist and stopped at the border? Or maybe the inability to reign in Health care costs and out of control corruption, regulation of the food supply, ....is there a mandate the Federal Government HAS been able to achieve?

Really E.J. wake up. Your stories are pitifully out of touch. Just like the party you cheer for. Is that pissy, cranky and crabby enough for ya?

B

http://b-political.blogspot.com/