Top Leaderboard, Site wide
July 24, 2014
Truthdig: Drilling Beneath the Headlines
Help us grow by sharing
and liking Truthdig:
Sign up for Truthdig's Email NewsletterLike Truthdig on FacebookFollow Truthdig on TwitterSubscribe to Truthdig's RSS Feed

Newsletter

sign up to get updates


Blind Ideological Justice




War of the Whales


Truthdig Bazaar more items

 
Report

A Declaration of Independence From Israel

Email this item Email    Print this item Print    Share this item... Share

Posted on Jul 2, 2007
flag burning
AP Photo/Hatem Moussa

Armed Palestinian women burn Israeli and U.S. flags during a protest against Israel’s operations in the Gaza Strip and Lebanon.

By Chris Hedges

Israel, without the United States, would probably not exist.  The country came perilously close to extinction during the October 1973 war when Egypt, trained and backed by the Soviet Union, crossed the Suez and the Syrians poured in over the Golan Heights.  Huge American military transport planes came to the rescue.  They began landing every half-hour to refit the battered Israeli army, which had lost most of its heavy armor.  By the time the war was over, the United States had given Israel $2.2 billion in emergency military aid.

  The intervention, which enraged the Arab world, triggered the OPEC oil embargo that for a time wreaked havoc on Western economies.  This was perhaps the most dramatic example of the sustained life-support system the United States has provided to the Jewish state.

  Israel was born at midnight May 14, 1948.  The U.S. recognized the new state 11 minutes later.  The two countries have been locked in a deadly embrace ever since.

  Washington, at the beginning of the relationship, was able to be a moderating influence.  An incensed President Eisenhower demanded and got Israel’s withdrawal after the Israelis occupied Gaza in 1956.  During the Six-Day War in 1967, Israeli warplanes bombed the USS Liberty.  The ship, flying the U.S. flag and stationed 15 miles off the Israeli coast, was intercepting tactical and strategic communications from both sides. The Israeli strikes killed 34 U.S. sailors and wounded 171. The deliberate attack froze, for a while, Washington’s enthusiasm for Israel.  But ruptures like this one proved to be only bumps, soon smoothed out by an increasingly sophisticated and well-financed Israel lobby that set out to merge Israeli and American foreign policy in the Middle East.

Israel has reaped tremendous rewards from this alliance.  It has been given more than $140 billion in U.S. direct economic and military assistance.  It receives about $3 billion in direct assistance annually, roughly one-fifth of the U.S. foreign aid budget.  Although most American foreign aid packages stipulate that related military purchases have to be made in the United States, Israel is allowed to use about 25 percent of the money to subsidize its own growing and profitable defense industry.  It is exempt, unlike other nations, from accounting for how it spends the aid money.  And funds are routinely siphoned off to build new Jewish settlements, bolster the Israeli occupation in the Palestinian territories and construct the security barrier, which costs an estimated $1 million a mile.

Advertisement

Square, Site wide
  The barrier weaves its way through the West Bank, creating isolated pockets of impoverished Palestinians in ringed ghettos.  By the time the barrier is finished it will probably in effect seize up to 40 percent of Palestinian land.  This is the largest land grab by Israel since the 1967 war.  And although the United States officially opposes settlement expansion and the barrier, it also funds them.

  The U.S. has provided Israel with nearly $3 billion to develop weapons systems and given Israel access to some of the most sophisticated items in its own military arsenal, including Blackhawk attack helicopters and F-16 fighter jets.  The United States also gives Israel access to intelligence it denies to its NATO allies.  And when Israel refused to sign the nuclear nonproliferation treaty, the United States stood by without a word of protest as the Israelis built the region’s first nuclear weapons program.

U.S. foreign policy, especially under the current Bush administration, has become little more than an extension of Israeli foreign policy.  The United States since 1982 has vetoed 32 Security Council resolutions critical of Israel, more than the total number of vetoes cast by all the other Security Council members.  It refuses to enforce the Security Council resolutions it claims to support.  These resolutions call on Israel to withdraw from the occupied territories.

There is now volcanic anger and revulsion by Arabs at this blatant favoritism.  Few in the Middle East see any distinction between Israeli and American policies, nor should they.  And when the Islamic radicals speak of U.S. support of Israel as a prime reason for their hatred of the United States, we should listen.  The consequences of this one-sided relationship are being played out in the disastrous war in Iraq, growing tension with Iran, and the humanitarian and political crisis in Gaza.  It is being played out in Lebanon, where Hezbollah is gearing up for another war with Israel, one most Middle East analysts say is inevitable.  The U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East is unraveling.  And it is doing so because of this special relationship. The eruption of a regional conflict would usher in a nightmare of catastrophic proportions.

There were many in the American foreign policy establishment and State Department who saw this situation coming. The decision to throw our lot in with Israel in the Middle East was not initially a popular one with an array of foreign policy experts, including President Harry Truman’s secretary of state, Gen. George Marshall.  They warned there would be a backlash.  They knew the cost the United States would pay in the oil-rich region for this decision, which they feared would be one of the greatest strategic blunders of the postwar era.  And they were right.  The decision has jeopardized American and Israeli security and created the kindling for a regional conflagration.

The alliance, which makes no sense in geopolitical terms, does makes sense when seen through the lens of domestic politics.  The Israel lobby has become a potent force in the American political system.  No major candidate, Democrat or Republican, dares to challenge it.  The lobby successfully purged the State Department of Arab experts who challenged the notion that Israeli and American interests were identical.  Backers of Israel have doled out hundreds of millions of dollars to support U.S. political candidates deemed favorable to Israel.  They have brutally punished those who strayed, including the first President Bush, who they said was not vigorous enough in his defense of Israeli interests.  This was a lesson the next Bush White House did not forget.  George W. Bush did not want to be a one-term president like his father. 

Israel advocated removing Saddam Hussein from power and currently advocates striking Iran to prevent it from acquiring nuclear weapons.  Direct Israeli involvement in American military operations in the Middle East is impossible.  It would reignite a war between Arab states and Israel.  The United States, which during the Cold War avoided direct military involvement in the region, now does the direct bidding of Israel while Israel watches from the sidelines.  During the 1991 Gulf War, Israel was a spectator, just as it is in the war with Iraq.

President Bush, facing dwindling support for the war in Iraq, publicly holds Israel up as a model for what he would like Iraq to become.  Imagine how this idea plays out on the Arab street, which views Israel as the Algerians viewed the French colonizers during the war of liberation. 

“In Israel,” Bush said recently, “terrorists have taken innocent human life for years in suicide attacks.  The difference is that Israel is a functioning democracy and it’s not prevented from carrying out its responsibilities.  And that’s a good indicator of success that we’re looking for in Iraq.” 

Americans are increasingly isolated and reviled in the world.  They remain blissfully ignorant of their own culpability for this isolation.  U.S. “spin” paints the rest of the world as unreasonable, but Israel, Americans are assured, will always be on our side.

  Israel is reaping economic as well as political rewards from its lock-down apartheid state.  In the “gated community” market it has begun to sell systems and techniques that allow the nation to cope with terrorism.  Israel, in 2006, exported $3.4 billion in defense products—well over a billion dollars more than it received in American military aid.  Israel has grown into the fourth largest arms dealer in the world.  Most of this growth has come in the so-called homeland security sector.


New and Improved Comments

If you have trouble leaving a comment, review this help page. Still having problems? Let us know. If you find yourself moderated, take a moment to review our comment policy.

By Just The Truth, July 4, 2007 at 7:42 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

#83977 by Inherit The Wind on 7/04 at 11:10 am,

You need to learn how to use Google and do some basic research:

Mordechai Bentov, cabinet minister: “This story about the danger of extermination has been a complete invention and has been blown up a posteriori to justify the annexation of new Arab territories.” (cited in Le Monde, June 3, 1972)

Menachem Begin, leader of Gahal Party: “In June 1967 we again had a choice. The Egyptian army concentrations in the Sinai approaches did not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.” (cited in New York Times, Aug. 21, 1982.)

Gen. Matityahu Peled: “To pretend that the Egyptian forces massed on our frontiers were in a position to threaten the existence of Israel constitutes an insult not only to the intelligence of anyone capable of analyzing this sort of situation, but above all an insult to the Zahal [Israeli army].” (cited in Ha’aretz, March 19, 1972.)

Israel and Syria: Correcting the Record - Moshe Dayan exposes Israeli provocations in the Golan
http://www.kibush.co.il/show_file.asp?num=18442

Repentance from the Grave:
The Dayan Memoirs
http://www.hagalil.com/GuShalom/maamarim/dayan.htm

Whomever you were quoting and sneering at was right

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, July 4, 2007 at 5:47 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

GodSend on 7/04 at 3:18 pm
(15 comments total)

Oh, ‘Blowing in the Wind’ - why not volunteer to blow your mighty wind for the America’s Cup race?! You’ll do a lot more good over there than blowing your foul wind over here!  (And stop eating all those beans! - or is it the borscht?)

Another ethnic joke from a bigot.  I give you credit though, at least you spelled borscht right. (Hate the stuff—prefer schav).  Why do morons always think coming up with insults instead of facts and logic makes them clever?


Who cares what you don’t believe!

As long as you don’t try to force me follow your cult, or try to shove your fairy tales down my kids’ throats and call it “science”. 

What I want is what the Constitution guarantees me: the right to be left alone by you when it comes to my religion—or lack of it. 

Threaten you? - you must be kidding. You wouldn’t know a threat from a zephyr.

Backing off because you got called on it?  So you use another insult as a cover and…..

The God you don’t know exists will make a believer out of you before you can say ‘Windbag’!

...follow it up with another threat—that God will punish me.  Got that from the old Maude TV show? “God will get you for that!”  No, he/she won’t.  I don’t follow the superstitious teachings from desert folk 3,200 years ago.

And I accept as fact that the Earth is more than 6,000 years old, the Flintstones are a cartoon, not palentology upon which you build a museum, and that all species of life are related via evolution.  And I’ll bet I can argue that the world is flat better than you can argue it’s round—then turn around and make your argument that it’s round better than you!

Mark Twain has Huck Finn so confused about Right and Wrong by people just like you that when he FINALLY decides he’s going to continue to help, Jim, the runaway slave escape says “All right then, I’ll GO to hell!” and tears up a letter he’s writing to Jim’s owner informing on him.

People like you (and Osama Bin Laden) have used religion and fear to justify the most heinous crimes. And that was Twain’s point.


Now be a good boy and take out the rubbish for your mummy.

Whenever she asks me. She’s 82 now.  See, I actually follow the 10 Commandments—better than you, I’m sure.  Honor thy father and mother is easy for me: they are honorable, decent people who spent much of their lives helping others and teaching us the absolute quality of Right and Wrong. 

And my father, also an Agnostic, faced his death with more grace and courage than most people who “believe”, saying nothing more than “everybody dies”.  May the God you believe in grant you his courage!  My siblings and I agree—he taught us how to live, and, finally, how to die.

You should be that lucky!  But you won’t be until you throw away the white sheet and your arrogance.

Report this

By Kalifornia1, July 4, 2007 at 5:28 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Mr Heges describes what Westerners who specialize in the Middle East know to be true. What he says is no secret. Academics and diplomats have been saying this for years. Unfortunately truth, justice and common sense cannot compete with the lust for money and power in Washington. The American-Israeli axis is a catastrophe for the world, including the US. Good job, Mr Heges.

Report this

By Robert Castle, July 4, 2007 at 5:15 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

What has Israel ever done for, not to, the United States, in return for the billions of dollars it has received and is receiving from our tax money?  And talk about anti-semitism.  The amount of slander and libel heaped upon the American taxpayers who are subsidizing Israel by those accusing us of being anti-semetic makes their accusations seem paranoic. Another thing - you can have all of your infiltrating neocons. We do not want them meddling in our affairs. Maybe it is time for each country to go its own way.

Report this
GodSend's avatar

By GodSend, July 4, 2007 at 4:18 pm Link to this comment

Oh, ‘Blowing in the Wind’ - why not volunteer to blow your mighty wind for the America’s Cup race?! You’ll do a lot more good over there than blowing your foul wind over here! smile (And stop eating all those beans! - or is it the borscht?)

Who cares what you don’t believe! wink

Threaten you? - you must be kidding. You wouldn’t know a threat from a zephyr. The God you don’t know exists will make a believer out of you before you can say ‘Windbag’!

Now be a good boy and take out the rubbish for your mummy.

Report this

By Max Shields, July 4, 2007 at 3:15 pm Link to this comment

Al/#83910 by atheo on 7/04 at 8:55 am

No, it’s as simple as you want the narrative to be.

Point, first to be clear, I am completely against the policies of Israel as carried out aggressively and genocidally against its neighors, particularly the Palestinians. In fact, I think it was a mistake for such a state - for a number of reasons I won’t go into now - to have been created to begin with.

That said, like the Iraq war, there is a conflation of interests, not least of which is the absolute criticality of the Middle East (however pathological it has become) to the national interest of Washington and US transnational corporations. That those aims conflate with AIPAC and right-wing zionists seems obvious. But to ignore the history of the US in the region, the incredible demand for oil, its relations to Shah/Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and all that that means, is to ignore reality.

Report this

By Al Gomas, July 4, 2007 at 3:08 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Israel was founded by refugees from a racist holocaust that has reverberations to this day.  In their quest for security they have embraced Zionism which is just a Jewish version of the horror they fled from in Germany.
They have become the monstrous evil which victimized them.  They would be much better off seeking psychiatric help than military help. 
Of course that would upset the gravy train that enriches the 1%.  It is that global 1% that is the true enemy of civilization and the sooner we realize it, the sooner we can get on with the work of preserving the planet we all share.

Report this

By harry of b, July 4, 2007 at 2:34 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Excellent article by Mr Hedges.  One of the best on the topic so far in ‘07.

Not too suprising to see so many Israel-First folks all ripped up over it, ditto the Robertson-type followers of that two-century old Christian heresy known as Dispensationalism.

I know there are many intelligent citizens of Israel (and many who oppose their nation’s de facto apartheid and confrontational tactics)who are concerned over critiques of the power of the Lobby.  Some have responded here.  But all that those with an “America-First” outlook say is - do not involve us through your lobbies here in your foreign policies.

If you do, expect a backlash. A nation, goes the old diplomatic saw, has no friends,only interests.  Or if they do have friends, then “friends don’t let friends drive drunk!”

Again, kudos to Chris Hedges.

Report this

By lilmamzer, July 4, 2007 at 2:26 pm Link to this comment

#83977 by Inherit The Wind:

Gee, that explains the 80,000 Egyptian troops massed on Israel’s West, the 40,000 Syrians to the North/East, and the attack by Jordan from the East the day AFTER the war started—when Jordan could still have stayed out of it.

Egypt blockaded the Straits of Tiran - itself a casus belli, in addition to massing the troops, kicking out the UN Sinai contingent, and publicly declaring the intent to invade and destroy Israel. There is also documented evidence of Egyptian artillery opening fire on Israel from Gaza before the IAF finally made its move.

Syria had been diverting the headwaters of the Jordan River and shelling Israeli towns for years, also casus belli, and Jordan rained thousands of heavy artillery shells on Jerusalem’s Jewish civilian neighborhoods, which still stand as war crimes - there was no military value to those targets.

Report this

By S.A. Brown, July 4, 2007 at 2:19 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Why is the Israel lobby getting away with this?  I believe that much of the reason is the failure of the mainstream media to give Americans the facts about the Middle East, and especially Israel’s policies.  We can read the facts in such publications as this one, in Counterpunch and in the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, but readership is comparatively tiny.  Americans in general are fair-minded, and if they fully understood the situation there is a much better chance they would turf many of the groveling politicians in Washington and insist on “independence from Israel.”  It will not happen any other way.

  Alison Weir writes that the mainstream media “missed the boat” on important revelations about Israel’s actions, but she is being either naïve or charitable.  I believe that news unfavorable to Israel is routinely and purposefully suppressed by the owners and publishers.  The press in this country is as much controlled and censored by corporate business as it was by governments in Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union.  There are several reasons why this suppression occurs.  In some cases it is to avoid antagonizing Zionist evangelical Christians and Jews that in some regions make up an important segment of their audience.  In other cases the media owners are committed Zionists such as Rupert Murdoch who control media empires and drastically limit reporting of facts and commentary that is seriously critical of Israel.

I think that another and perhaps most important reason is dread of advertising boycotts.  Many major advertisers are controlled by Zionist Jews; they are an organized and monolithic force, and a boycott by them can be easily organized and enforced, with devastating effects on any mainstream medium against which it would be directed.  This is not just speculation; it has happened.  Last year the Washington Report related a case in 1948 in which the publisher of the New York Times canceled an advertisement soliciting funds for Menachem Begin’s Irgun Zvi Leumi, a Zionist terrorist organization at the time.  This resulted in an advertising boycott by wealthy Zionist department store owners that the paper’s brass described as a frightening experience, and they locked away all related correspondence in a safe.  Is there any doubt that chill from fear of such concerted action hangs over any mainstream medium that may be tempted to lay the full facts before the public and publish the withering denunciations Israel’s actions and its lobby’s activities deserve?

I see no way around this situation.  A widely distributed, tax-supported national medium operated fully arms-length by the Government and free of advertising could tell the facts without fear, but don’t hold your breath.  The very idea would undoubtedly be crucified by politicians in the Congress as un-American.  Pity.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, July 4, 2007 at 1:36 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“GodSend on 7/04 at 11:08 am
(13 comments total)

Lefty:

What will be consumed, my friend, is you - and not by evolution, either! You sound just like that know-nothing agnostic ‘Blowing in the Wind’ wink

Christ is not a ‘religion’ like all other ‘religions’ - not even ‘Christianity’ as it is known today. You will not find many (if any) true followers of Christ in the ‘System of Christianity’! It’s much more of a ‘Personal’ thing”

There you have it: This arrogant SOB thinks anyone could actually live their lives in America and NOT have spent it being inundated with his kind of propaganda. I especially love “Christ is not a ‘religion’”.  Yeah, that’s what ALL religions say. We are the TRUE FAITH, the one path to God, and all the others are just phony-baloney religions.

I’ll bet I know a THOUSAND TIMES more about your religion and Christianity than you will EVER know about Agnosticism.  So you all you have to say to me is “Believe as I do or God will damn you.”

The next step is: “Believe as I do or I will kill you!”  That’s what they do in Saudi Arabia, Iran and Libya, and that’s what the Taliban did.  And I’ll bet GodSend wants to do the same thing here.  Notice the threat he built in…What’s next, GodSend “God will wreak his vengeance on you and I am his hand here on earth to do it!

Yeah, buddy, you’re not just a member of a religion, you’re a member of a cult.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, July 4, 2007 at 12:10 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I keep saying: by legitimizing anti-semitism all the psychos have come out of the woodwork.

That is as much a myth as the one about Israel being in danger of annihilation in 1967. (The Arabs were not intending to attack in 1967 and Israel’s military and political leaders knew that.

Gee, that explains the 80,000 Egyptian troops massed on Israel’s West, the 40,000 Syrians to the North/East, and the attack by Jordan from the East the day AFTER the war started—when Jordan could still have stayed out of it.

You are entitled to your own opinions, no matter how ridiculous they are. YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO YOUR OWN FACTS!


One can say that Eygpt’s Presdent Nasser, for reasons of face, was daft enough to walk into the trap set for him by Israeli Defence Minister Dayan, but it was a war of Israeli aggression pure and simple.

One could say that, but it would be pure crap.  If Dayan, seeing the imminent threat from Nasser, prepared the environment to benefit Israel, that’s not aggression—that’s good generaling.

For ITN I was the first Western correspondent to the banks of the Suez Canal with the advancing Israelis).

And when did Alzheimers set in?

Sadat’s little war for peace...

You are f***king kidding, right?  a “little war for peace”?  “We had to destroy the village to save it”.  No, it was a BIG war to crush Israel—Sadat admitted and took what he could from it—proof that Israel could be hurt and wasn’t invincible.  He said that.

In fact, he told me in a phone call…J/K!  But since you are claiming to be Golda’s “girlfriend” that she confessed to on the phone…..

How do I know that Golda lost control of her generals? She told me.

What we have here is yet another lunatic hearing voices.  Tell it to GodSend—he’ll believe you—he thinks all Israelis are Satan’s spawn.

What’s happening here is that legitimate discussion of options, problems, possibilities, and, most importantly, legitimate criticism of BOTH sides is now impossible.

Anti-semitism is back, full-force, and this time the scapegoat is Israel and Zionism, with a solid dollop of “International Finance” (code for Jewish bankers, whoever they are).

I cannot even tell you that I DETEST Joe Lieberman (and I do) and think his helping to whip up a frenzy over Iran is INSANE!

I’m no fan of the Iranian leadership—I think they are incompetent, ignorant, cruel fanatics. But I don’t see the Bush plan of continual confrontation with them to be rational. “Because Israel’s telling us to…”  That’s so f***in’ stupid as to reach new lows.  Israel and Iran are natural allies, sharing many enemies. It is only THIS leadership that doesn’t recognize it in their fanaticism.

But your minds are made up, and you don’t want to be confused with facts.

Report this
GodSend's avatar

By GodSend, July 4, 2007 at 12:08 pm Link to this comment

Lefty:

What will be consumed, my friend, is you - and not by evolution, either! You sound just like that know-nothing agnostic ‘Blowing in the Wind’ wink

Christ is not a ‘religion’ like all other ‘religions’ - not even ‘Christianity’ as it is known today. You will not find many (if any) true followers of Christ in the ‘System of Christianity’! It’s much more of a ‘Personal’ thing wink

Report this

By H J Ross, July 4, 2007 at 11:42 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

If America is to support Israel, then Israel should be made to support Jesus Christ, whom is the Christians God. I have said all along that since 911 we are in a religious war. The USA needs to get those Jews to accept Jesus. 

Guess what, it will never happen! Jesus wasn’t a Jew.  They ( the jews) know that Jesus was an Israelite from the tribe of Judah and Levi… Jews hide behind their god satan and curse the God and Father of our Lord Jesus the Christ the founders of the white Christain nations whom are true Isreal today.

Report this
GodSend's avatar

By GodSend, July 4, 2007 at 11:14 am Link to this comment

No, it’s not JOOOOOOOOOOOOOs - it’s Zionists (fake Jews) and their goyim stooges. The Zionists parade as Jews but they are worshipers of Satan, not Yahweh. The Neturei Karta Jews and the ‘Jews Against Zionism’ Jews explain this critical difference (and Zionist deception) very well! Messianic Jews also do a good job of identifying the true ‘religion’ of Zionists.

Sorry, lilmamzer, you’ll have to try harder! wink

Report this

By TruthSeeker, July 4, 2007 at 11:10 am Link to this comment

Ah, the Israel elephant in the American jungle. War on Terror: Qui bono? Israel, of course. Look at the explosive growth of their defense, IT industries, all war on terror related. Look at their fusing their hatred of Arabs with the new American hatred of Arabs. Nobody cares for the crimes against humanity going on in Palestine, thanks to the war on Terror. The enemies of Israel are being destroyed and balkanized, one by one: Iraq, soon Iran, Syria. Washington DC has been hijacked by Israel and its agents. Our media has been taken over by Zionists. The War on Terror rolls on…

Mossad slogan: “By way of deception thou should make war”.

For those paying attention, isn’t it quite obvious by now?

I highly recommend an essay on the neocon threat: “Of Crazies, Neocons and the Enemy Within”
Also, “The Enemy Within: The Neocon Hijacking of America”


Pure truth, if you are not blind to see.

Report this

By TruthSeeker, July 4, 2007 at 11:01 am Link to this comment

Ah, the Israel elephant in the American jungle. War on Terror: Qui bono? Israel, of course. Look at the explosive growth of their defense, IT industries, all war on terror related. Look at their fusing their hatred of Arabs with the new American hatred of Arabs. Nobody cares for the crimes against humanity going on in Palestine, thanks to the war on Terror. The enemies of Israel are being destroyed and balkanized, one by one: Iraq, soon Iran, Syria. Washington DC has been hijacked by Israel and its agents. Our media has been taken over by Zionists. The War on Terror rolls on…

Mossad slogan: “By way of deception thou should make war”.

For those paying attention, isn’t it quite obvious by now?

I highly recommend an essay on the neocon threat: “Of Crazies, Neocons and the Enemy Within”
Also, “The Enemy Within: The Neocon Hijacking of America”

Links: http://valenzuelasveritas.blogspot.com/2007/06/of-crazies-neocons-and-enemy-within.html

http://valenzuelasveritas.blogspot.com/2004/12/enemy-within-neocon-hijacking-of.html

Pure truth, if you are not blind to see.

Report this

By lilmamzer, July 4, 2007 at 10:56 am Link to this comment

#83933 by lilmamzer on 7/04 at 9:39 am
(346 comments total)

#83911 by GodSend:

How about this short list of Zionist agents, Israeli and American, current and former:

Bush
Chertoff
Zakheim
Greenspan
Bernanke
Lieberman
Wolfowitz
Perle
Feith
Abrams
Silverstein
Guiliani
Clinton (W)
Clinton (H)
Pelosi
Barack
Saban
Krauthammer
“Scooter” Libby
etc., etc., etc. (hundreds if not thousands more)

Hedges, this guy GodSend is only writing what you are too afraid to say yourself.

Why not just come out of the closet and publish your own list of favorite Jews?

No need to answer - it’s not the role of the agitprop provocateur (that would be you, Hedges) to get his hands too dirty.

Report this

By authoralan, July 4, 2007 at 10:53 am Link to this comment

Dear Chris Hedges,

I am a fan of yours but I must correct you - I hope you don’t mind - about the 1973 war. You wrote that Israel came “perilously close to extinction.”

That is as much a myth as the one about Israel being in danger of annihilation in 1967. (The Arabs were not intending to attack in 1967 and Israel’s military and political leaders knew that. One can say that Eygpt’s Presdent Nasser, for reasons of face, was daft enough to walk into the trap set for him by Israeli Defence Minister Dayan, but it was a war of Israeli aggression pure and simple. For ITN I was the first Western correspondent to the banks of the Suez Canal with the advancing Israelis).

It is true that Eygpt and Syria struck first in 1973 but the point is that Eygptian forces crossed the canal and stopped, well inside Israeli-occupied Eygpt. Eygpt’s President Sadat had no intention of advancing further and that was known to Henry Kissinger, who actually triggered the war by sending Sadat a message that “a little heating up” would be in order. Sadat’s little war for peace went badly wrong for him and Kissinger because Prime Minister Golda Meir lost control of her generals, Sharon in particular. He, Sharon, was determined to teach Kissinger as well as Sadat and the Syrians a lesson. How do I know that Golda lost control of her generals? She told me.

I was in Israel on the second day of the 1973 war (then as a correspondent for the BBC’s Panorama programme) and I had a private telephone conversation with Golda. During that she told me only that Kissinger was blocking her request for an urgent face to face with President Nixon. But… shortly before she died I had a five-hour, private conversation with Golda. The 1973 war was one of the major topics we discussed and her revelations included what she had to do to regsain control of her generals.

The full story is in Chapter 32 of Volume Two of my latest book, ZIONISM: THE REAL ENEMY OF THE JEWS. That chapter is titled The Yom Kippur War and “Nuclear Blackmal”.

Although it can be obtained from Amazon, my book won’t be available in America until I have it printed there. Like the mainstream media, publishers are terrified of offending Zionism - I mean offending Zionism as much as the title of my book does.

I insisted on that title because in seven words it reflects two related truths for our time. The first is that the sleeping giant of clasicial anti-Semitism is being re-awakened throughout the mainly Gentile Judeo-Christian world. The second is that a prime cause of the re-awakening is the behaviour of Zionism’s aggressive and self-righteous child, Israel. (As, prior to the obscenity of the Nazi holocaust, many Jews everywhere feared would be the case if Zionism was allowed to have its way).

I think I should add that my book is the OPPOSITE of anti-Semitic. Stripped down to its absolute essence, it’s my Gentile call for the Jews to become the light unto nations (not least because the rest of us need them to be). In the very last words of my book (which are from my heart as well as my mind and have pride of place on the back jacket of Volume Two), I put it this way:

“If the Jews of the diaspora can summon up the will and the courage to make common cause with the forces of reason in Israel before it’s too late for us all, a very great prize awaits them. By demonstrating that right can triumph over might, and that there is a place for morality in politics, they would become the light unto nations. It would be a prize available to no other people on earth because of the uniqueness of the suffering of the Jewish people. Perhaps that is the real point of the idea of the Jews as Chosen People…. Chosen to endure unique suffering and, having enjured it, to show the rest of us that creating a better and more just world is not a mission impossible.”

Report this

By freespeechlover, July 4, 2007 at 10:43 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Hedges’ article is brilliant, regardless of detractors, Zionist, anti-Semitic, or both, in the comments section.  It’s heartening to see U.S. journalists with the courage to speak truth to power, and it matters not whether Washington is being manipulated by Israel or Israel is a client-state of D.C.  Either way, the results for Palestinians the world over are the same.

Report this

By lilmamzer, July 4, 2007 at 10:39 am Link to this comment

#83911 by GodSend:

The US is a client state for Israel! Make no mistake about it! What did A. Sharon say to S. Peres in 2001? (“I want to tell you something very clear, don’t worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America and the Americans know it.”)

How about this short list of Zionist agents, Israeli and American, current and former:

Bush
Chertoff
Zakheim
Greenspan
Bernanke
Lieberman
Wolfowitz
Perle
Feith
Abrams
Silverstein
Guiliani
Clinton (W)
Clinton (H)
Pelosi
Barack
Saban
Krauthammer
“Scooter” Libby
etc., etc., etc. (hundreds if not thousands more)

JOOOOOOOOOOOOS!!!!!!!!

Report this

By Vlogger, July 4, 2007 at 10:11 am Link to this comment

Hedges article is simply mistaken when it asserts that: “The country came perilously close to extinction during the October 1973 war when Egypt, trained and backed by the Soviet Union, crossed the Suez and the Syrians poured in over the Golan Heights.” Former BBC Panorama and ITN Middle East correspondent, Alan Hart, clarifies this crucial point in his monumental two volume history of the Israel-Palestine conflict: “Zionism the Real Enemy of the Jews”.

He demonstrates that Israel was never, at any point in its history, in danger of annihilation by the front line Arab states. The military balance of forces was always overwhelmingly in Israel’s favour ever since Golda Meir made her hugely successful fund-raising trip to the US in the late 40s to get the money needed to enable Ben Gurion to buy arms from Eastern Europe via Czechoslovakia. As Norman Finkelstein argues, to assert otherwise is to accept the propaganda of the Zionists who always try to make “poor little Israel” appear the victim when the reverse has always been the truth. Read Hart’s excellent books about 1973 for more info.

Report this
GodSend's avatar

By GodSend, July 4, 2007 at 9:59 am Link to this comment

The US is a client state for Israel! Make no mistake about it! What did A. Sharon say to S. Peres in 2001? (“I want to tell you something very clear, don’t worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America and the Americans know it.”)

How about this short list of Zionist agents, Israeli and American, current and former:

Bush
Chertoff
Zakheim
Greenspan
Bernanke
Lieberman
Wolfowitz
Perle
Feith
Abrams
Silverstein
Guiliani
Clinton (W)
Clinton (H)
Pelosi
Barack
Saban
Krauthammer
“Scooter” Libby
etc., etc., etc. (hundreds if not thousands more)

It’s a classic case of the tail wagging the dog. What can Israel possibly do to benefit the US? Why should Americans die to promote the Zionist agenda of “Greater Israel”? (see PNAC and ‘Balkanization of the Middle East’ - Iraq, for starters) wink

Report this

By atheo, July 4, 2007 at 9:55 am Link to this comment

Max Shields is so self delusional that he believes that the US uses Israel to fight it’s supposed enemy Hezbolah. Quoting Max Shields:

” Israel has served as a proxy against Hezbollah (Iran/Syria); and sides with the US on all US foreign policies - inside and outside the region. Israel is a client state.”

Yes, the US is supposed to have it’s security enhanced by Israel’s aggressions in the M.E. What chutzpah!

Report this

By Al, July 4, 2007 at 9:45 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Max Shield writes “I agree with much of what Hedges presents here, but that the narrative is more complex. Israel is a client state to the U.S. It is a beachhead for U.S. Middle Eastern hegemony.”

————————————————————————-

Actually it’s as simple as it appears. You know how sometimes the most obvious appears right underneath your nose, as they say.

Report this

By Max Shields, July 4, 2007 at 9:24 am Link to this comment

I agree with much of what Hedges presents here, but that the narrative is more complex. Israel is a client state to the U.S. It is a beachhead for U.S. Middle Eastern hegemony.

In this case, I would not pin the entire relationship on a lobby or on other US/Israel internal forces.

The history of the US vis a vis the Middle East predates the developed relationship with Israel. I don’t see Israel as representing Judaism, as much as refelcting the will of Washington. The right-wing governments in both nations will change to reflect the changing image of the US as it throws off the bare aggression of Bush for a liter-version.

The real test is can the US ever shed its deeply rooted foreign policy of imperialism?

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, July 4, 2007 at 9:01 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“atheo on 7/04 at 7:13 am
(144 comments total)

Cyrena,

I applaud your patience. These disgusting racist hatemongers that fill this site comment section are not interested in dialog. They simply seek to blind others with their own hatred. It’s completely repulsive, but I guess it has an appeal to those who seek to remain true to zionism.”

There is not one Jew here who isn’t absolutely terrified by what we are reading at Truthdig.Com.  We see ALL the signs of another holocaust coming.  All of you arguing that Jews control America, that somehow, Jews have gotten our leaders to betray the best interests of the US for this little nation have laid the ground-work for the TRUE hard-core anti-semites to feel confident to come out of the woodwork—Vinnie, Blahblahblah, and GodSend.

The constant hammering on how Jews have an unfair (and, by implication, demonic) over-representation, combined with the LIE the high government officials are dual citizens is EXACTLY HOW HITLER DID IT IN THE 20’s and 30’s!

Your refusal to acknowledge that Hamas cites that crude, disgusting forgery “The Protocols of The Elders of Zion” as “proof” of Jews’ evil is further grist for the mill.

As a secular Jew, I am FULLY AWARE that as Americans turn on Jews, first it will be those that avidly and actively support Israel, then it will be those that clearly and obviously do not follow Christianity.  Then it will be the rest of us.

America’s history of racism and bigotry is long, virulent and very resiliant.  It’s only 1964 and 1965 that the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts were passed, yet they are ALREADY being rolled back viciously.  We have a President who is clearly a fascist who hates Democracy.  Despite the absurd claims that he’s a tool for Israel, there’s hard, solid evidence that he’s more a tool for the Saudis—Israel’s bitter enemy.

The racists feel they have a justification now to loudly call for all sorts of restrictions on anyone who isn’t White, conservative, and devoutly Christian (if they are Catholic, rather than Protestant they are grudgingly tolerated).

And places like this are fostering the old lie, yet again, that the Jews are at the heart of everyone’s problems.  Now the excuse is “zionism” and Iraq, but there’s always an excuse.  Jews in America have a right to be afraid, yet again, and a RIGHT to fight back against the bigotry that has tormented us down the millenia.

Just how easy will it be to destroy Israel?  And what will you have in its place? Peace? Stop snorting whatever that is, stop smoking that opium because it ain’t going to happen.

Yet again, Jews in general and Israel in particular, are the scapegoat for all the ills in the world and the Middle East—because it’s easy and doesn’t require actual THINKING!

Report this
GodSend's avatar

By GodSend, July 4, 2007 at 8:45 am Link to this comment

Inherit the Wind:

Thanks for admitting that you’re an agnostic and know nothing! Remember, you will inherit the wind - as well as the whirlwind. Your opinions are blowing in the wind. Windbag would be a much better name for you wink

Report this

By Alan Hart, July 4, 2007 at 8:45 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Dear Chris Hedges…. I am a fan of yours but I have to put you right - I hope you don’t mind - on the matter of the October 1973 war. You writethat Israel came “perilously close to extinction”.

That’s not so. Eygptian forces crossed the Suez Canal and stopped, well inside Israeli occupied Eygptian territory. As Henry Kissinger knew in advance of President Sadat’s little “war for peace” (launched after Kissinger sent Sadat a message that “a little heating up” would be in order),Sadat had no intention of advancing further.

I’m a former ITN and BBC correspondent and I was in Israel for that war. On day two I had a private telephone conversation with Prime Minister Golda Meir; and shortly before her death I had a five-four private conversation with her in the flesh. On that occasion we talked quite a lot about what really happened in 1973.

I recommend that you read Chapter 32 of Volume Two of my book ZIONISM: THE REAL ENEMY OF THE JEWS. That Chapter is titled The Yom Kippur War and “Nuclear Blackmail”.

Though it’s available from Amazon, my book won’t be available in America until I have it printed there. Like the mainstream media world, the publishing world is terrified of offending Zionism.

I believe the key to understanding is knowledge of the difference between Judaism and Zionism - why they are total opposites and hence why it is perfectly possible to be passionately anti-Zionist (meaning anti-Zionism’s colonial enterprise) without being in any way, shape or form anti-Semitic.

In due course I hope to be lecturing and debating across America as I have done in the past, and when I do, one of my main messages to Americans will be:

* DON’T blame the Jews who live among you for what hardcore Zionists have done and are doing in Israel/Palestine.

* DON’T even blame the Zionist lobby for buying influence on American foreign policy because it, the lobby, is only playing by the rules of the Game.

* DO blame your pork-barrel system of politics which puts what passes for democracy up for sale to the highest bidders.

Perhaps I should add that my book is the OPPOSITE of anti-Semitic. Stripped down to its absolute essence, it’s my Gentile call for the Jews to become the light unto nations (not least because the rest of us need them to be) by demonstrating that there is a place for morality in politics and that right can triumph over might

The end words of my book, words from my heart as well as my mind, are the following (and have pride of place on the back jacket of Volume Two):

“If the Jews of the diaspora can summon up the will and the courage to make common cause with the forces of reason in Israel before it’s too late for us all, a very great prize awaits them. By demonstrating that right can triumph over might, and that there is a place for morality in politics, they would become the light unto nations. It is a prize available to no other people on earth because of the uniqueness of the suffering of the Jews. Perhaps that is the real point of the idea of the Jews as Chosen People…. Chosen to endure unique suffering and, having endured it, to show the rest of us that creating a better and more just world is not a mission impossible.”

Report this

By atheo, July 4, 2007 at 8:13 am Link to this comment

Cyrena,

I applaud your patience. These disgusting racist hatemongers that fill this site comment section are not interested in dialog. They simply seek to blind others with their own hatred. It’s completely repulsive, but I guess it has an appeal to those who seek to remain true to zionism.

Report this
Robert's avatar

By Robert, July 4, 2007 at 7:51 am Link to this comment

April 7 / 8, 2007

How Can Children of the Holocaust Do Such Things?
A Jewish Plea
By SARA ROY

“For unlike past conflicts involving Israel and the Palestinian and Arab peoples this one feels qualitatively different—a turning point—not only with regard to the nature of Israel’s horrific response—its willingness to destroy and to do so utterly—but also with regard to the virtually unqualified support of organized American Jewry for Israel’s brutal actions, something that is not new but now no longer tolerable to me.

I grew up in a home where Judaism was defined and practiced not so much as a religion but as a system of ethics and culture. God was present but not central. Israel and the notion of a Jewish homeland were very important to my parents, who survived Auschwitz, Chelmno and Buchenwald. But unlike many of their friends, my parents were not uncritical of Israel. Obedience to a state was not a primary Jewish value, especially after the Holocaust. Judaism provided the context for Jewish life, for values and beliefs that were not dependent upon national or territorial boundaries, but transcended them to include the other, always the other. For my mother and father Judaism meant bearing witness, raging against injustice and refusing silence. It meant compassion, tolerance, and rescue. In the absence of these imperatives, they taught me, we cease to be Jews.

Many of the people, both Jewish and others, who writeabout Palestinians and Arabs fail to accept the fundamental humanity of the people they are writing about, a failing born of ignorance, fear and racism. Within the organized Jewish community especially, it has always been unacceptable to claim that Arabs, Palestinians especially, are like us, that they, too, possess an essential humanity and must be included within our moral boundaries, ceasing to be “a kind of solution,” a useful, hostile “other” to borrow from Edward Said. That any attempt at separation is artificial, an abstraction.

By refusing to seek proximity over distance, we calmly, even gratefully refuse to see what is right before our eyes. We are no longer compelled, if we ever were, to understand our behavior from positions outside our own, to enter, as Jacqueline Rose has written, into each other’s predicaments and make what is one of the hardest journeys of the mind. Hence, there is no need to maintain a living connection with the people we are oppressing, to humanize them, taking into account the experience of subordination itself, as Said would say. We are not preoccupied by our cruelty nor are we haunted by it. The task, ultimately, is to tribalize pain, narrowing the scope of human suffering to ourselves alone. Such willful blindness leads to the destruction of principle and the destruction of people, eliminating all possibility of embrace, but it gives us solace.

Why is it so difficult, even impossible to incorporate Palestinians and other Arab peoples into the Jewish understanding of history? Why is there so little perceived need to question our own narrative (for want of a better word) and the one we have given others, preferring instead to cherish beliefs and sentiments that remain impenetrable? Why is it virtually mandatory among Jewish intellectuals to oppose racism, repression and injustice almost anywhere in the world and unacceptable—indeed, for some, an act of heresy—to oppose it when Israel is the oppressor, choosing concealment over exposure? For many among us history and memory adhere to preclude reflection and tolerance, where, in the words of Northrop Frye, “the enemy become, not people to be defeated, but embodiments of an idea to be exterminated.”

What happens to the other as we, a broken and weary people, continually abuse him, turning him into the enemy we now want and need, secure in a prophecy that is thankfully self-fulfilling?

What happens to a people when renewal and injustice are rapturously joined?”

http://www.counterpunch.org/roy04072007.html

Report this

By cyrena, July 4, 2007 at 7:40 am Link to this comment

It’s sad really, we’ve yet to see an American Jew of any respect and standing come out and confront the remarkable arrogance and brazen deceit that is Israel.
********************
I can’t find out who wrote this now, (sounds like weather maybe) but I just wanted to tell you, that I actually DO know a FEW American Jews, who would be glad to do this, and probably already have.

**********************************
Thing is, with the zealots going on and on and on, with all of the rhetoric that is supposed to make everybody forget what’s going on now, and what they’ve done for decades, as if there could possibly ever be a valid excuse for such inhumane behavior…there’s no telling what could happen to a decent American Jew in this setting.

I’ll just try to keep my head down and my nose clean. Maybe I can lobby these folks on my own, and arrange for them to speak up.

Report this
Robert's avatar

By Robert, July 4, 2007 at 7:02 am Link to this comment

Another Bomb In Jerusalem:

July 2, 1946: The King David Hotel in Jerusalem was bombed. Killing 91 people

Menachem Begin sic who planned the destruction of the King David Hotel and the massacre of Deir Yassin (See picture at top of this page, flanked by pictures of the bombed King David Hotel). Ex prime minister, Shamir, was originally a member of the Jewish “terrorist” gang called Irgun, which was headed by none other than Menachem Begin. Shamir later moved over to the even more radical “Stern Gang,” which committed many vicious atrocities.

Shamir himself has defended the various assassinations committed by the Irgun and Stern gangs on the grounds that “it was the only way we could operate, because we were so small. So it was more efficient and more moral to go for selected targets.” The selected moral targets in those early days of the founding of the state of Israel included bombing of the King David Hotel and the massacre of Deir Yassin.

April 9, 1948: A combined force of Irgun and Stern Gangs committed a brutal massacre of 260 Arab residents of the village of Deir Yassin. Most of whom were women and children. The Israeli hordes even attacked the dead to satisfy their bestial tendencies. In April, 1954, during Holy Week, and on the eve of Easter, The Christian cemeteries in Haifa were invaded, crosses broken down and trampled under the feet of these miscreants, and the tombs desecrated. The Israeli military conquest, therefore was made against a defenseless people, who had been softened up by such earlier massacres as Deir Yasin {250 Arabs; men, women and children were massacred there}.

May 1948: The U.S. appointed Count Folke Bernadotte of Sweden to mediate between the Arabs and the Israelis. In his first progress report (of Sept. 16, 1948) he recommended that the U.N. should affirm “the right of the Arab refugees to return to their homes in Jewish controlled territory at the earliest possible date.” The Israelis responded in their own quiet way. The following day Bernadotte was murdered in Jerusalem.

February 1949: Israel launched an offensive across the Armistice lines with Egypt which brought its forces to the Gulf of Aqaba, occupying the Palestinian police post of Umm Rashrash which they afterwards named Eilat.

    1950: Israelis seized the Al-Uja de-militarized zone on the Egyptian side and Baqqara on the Syrian side, expelling their Arab inhabitants and razed their homes to the ground by bulldozers.

1950-1955: Israeli forces unleashed more than 40 acts of armed aggressions against Arab states, almost all causing a heavy loss of life. This included attacks and massacres in Qibya, Huleh 1953, Nahalin, Kfar Qassem in 1954, Gaza and a Syrian outpost on Lake Tiberias in 1955.

October 14-15, 1953—Under the command of Ariel Sharon, Israeli squads attacked the unarmed Arab village of Qibya in the demilitarized one. Where they blew up 42 houses and killed more than sixty residents who were trapped inside. The details were so gruesome that the U.S. joined in a U.N. condemnation of the Israeli action, and for the first and only time, suspended aid to Israel in reprisal.

July 1954: Israeli intelligence planted “a ring of spies (Moles)” in Cairo, its task was to begin sabotage operations against selected Egyptian, British and American targets…On July 14, the Alexandria post office was fire-bombed and the U.S. Information Agency offices in Cairo and Alexandria were damaged by fire started by phosphorous incendiary devices, as was a British-owned theater.

Members of the spy ring were caught, and they confessed. They had been planted by Modin, the Israeli military intelligence organization. The purpose, presumably, was to sabotage Egyptian relations with the U.S. and Britain. Various commissions of inquiry into the affair conducted in Israel were never able to decide whether or not Israeli Defense Minister Pinchon Lavon authorized the operation.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1457.htm

Report this

By weather, July 4, 2007 at 6:54 am Link to this comment

sepharad;it Never had to get like this.

  Israel could have dovetailed its standing on the World’s stage as an honorable and esteemable player. Today Israel is a Global disgrace.
  For Israel more is never enough, intoxicated w/a sense of entitlement that defies commonsense and purpose.
  It’s sad really, we’ve yet to see an American Jew of any respect and standing come out and confront the remarkable arrogance and brazen deceit that is Israel.
They shot Rabin, now look what you got;a bloated bag of invective and revengeful hate in the faux comatose Ariel Sharon - and Netanyhu, who w/a face like a foot and an ego that shows-up on doppler radar, plots toxic to the touch deception w/dark precision that has its rewards. Ask Ben how long Silverstein owned the World Trade Ctr. complex before 9/11, he’ll know very well. 9/11. was most profitable for Israel wasn’t it?

Report this

By cyrena, July 4, 2007 at 6:16 am Link to this comment

•  #83376 by Sepharad on 7/02 at 11:49 pm


•  Cyrena, nothing that you writereveals any particularly deep knowledge on your part. Israel’s history did not begin in 1948.

Sorry to disappoint you. Actually, I’m not here to take or teach a class. It has not been my intention to reveal any particularly “deep knowledge”. (deep knowledge on “my part”, about –WHAT-? Just no “deep knowledge, eh?) And no, I guess I just wasn’t trying to impress you. Matter-of-fact, I’m on a little sabbatical, a well deserved one, so no, this wouldn’t be the time for me to offer you any of my dissertations.

I AM aware however, that Israel’s history did not begin in 1948. As a scholar, I’ve done the reading. More than you might realize, but here again, we don’t really need to go through that, since you already know so much, and so do I. No doubt we’ve read many of the same books, academic journals, and other things. For me of course, it’s imperative that I obtain my sources and other research from a variety of perspectives. So, without giving you my resume, seeing as how I’m not looking for a job, you’ll just have to trust that I do in fact have the required history.

You will also have to accept that because my primary interest in the history/politics/culture of the area are from a Human Rights perspective, I have studied this conflict (for my purposes at least) from about 1902. My study of Middle Eastern History goes back much further. But my work is on what is going on now.

What I see, are so many horrific violations of International Law, on the part of Israel, for which there are simply no allowances. This Israeli “fear” of the Islamists is hype, and I pretty much resent you trying to shove it down my throat, but ONLY because as I’ve mentioned…I’ve seen the situation on the ground, in the West Bank as well as Gaza, and Israel is guilty of crimes against humanity. There is no way around this reality, and nothing makes it OK, including your fear of what has been hyped into an unreasonable hysteria about the people that have been held under what I know to be a brutal military occupation. Here in the U.S., as bad as things have become, I can never imagine being treated or having to live the way that the Palestinians have tried to survive, under this very brutal regime. I wish I could say that there might be some valid excuse for it, but there isn’t. It’s a despicable violation of the laws of the land, and so we’ll just have to leave it at that.

40,000 Palestinian homes just destroyed by your tanks and bulldozers, just for the hell of it. Checkpoints that can’t be negotiated by Palestinians even trying to get to a one and only hospital, through a one and only checkpoint, while the “settlers” all have special license plates, so that they can always just whiz right through. It’s very much BULLSHIT, for you to say that Palestinian mothers somehow “rejoice” when their sons are drawn into these “operations” by those who would (and do) take advantage of them. To suggest that these mothers actually ENCOURAGE their children to involve themselves in these operations is malicious slander, and you told that lie to the wrong person, because I know better.

I’m also disgusted by your insistence on referring to me as an anti-Semite. You’re out of line.

I have every right to express my very deep disgust, and disrespect, for the way that Israel has chosen to perpetrate what can only be called an Apartheid repression, against another population of people. These are crimes against humanity and they are on-going. That pretty much destroys any possible “legitimacy” that Israel might have, just because she has no moral standing in the world. Unfortunately we here in the U.S. have finally sunk to that level as well.

I’ve received a number of excellent sources from this thread, which I will continue to appreciate, but I suspect that we don’t have much in common beyond what we already disagree on.

Report this

By Al, July 4, 2007 at 6:10 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

This article says it all. More and more people are starting to figure out what they have been afraid to admit for years. The power of the Israeli lobby and the money they pour into the two parties.

All of this has always been about Israel. I remember back in the seventies when I was in grade school I ran into a Saudi kid (here in the states) and one of the first things out of his mouth was how the jews controlled the USA. I dismissed it as an off comment…tied it to the fact he was Arab.

The more you read about this the more you realize the FACTS.

Check out how many dual citizens (Israel and USA) are in the US government. Look at Fox news, notice the number of reporters with jewish names. What are the odds of two jews in a row being named FED CHAIRMAN? How is it damn near every CNN broadcast almost always has one or two jews moderating (wolf blitzer, Larry King are examples). Why does every US congressman make the usual “trek” to Israel (why not Burkina Faso?) Why is it if you speak out about this you are labeled an “anti-semite”? Is free speech a CRIME in the US if it is against Israel’s influence on the USA?

Why DO THESE ARABS really want to kill us? Why did they attack us in New York twice. What will we do when they eventually detonate a NUKE in our country?

Is the answer to KILL all Arabs? Will this solve their problem with Israel?

Why are we involved?

Why is it that when a democrat is elected in 2008 as president and both houses are democratic that our foreign policy in the middle east will still be biased in favor of one party (Israel) over the other (arab world).

Why don’t we listen to our founding father’s advice?
GEORGE WASHINGTON:
“In the execution of such a plan, nothing is more essential than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular nations, and passionate attachments for others, should be excluded; and that, in place of them, just and amicable feelings towards all should be cultivated. The nation which indulges towards another a habitual hatred or a habitual fondness is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest. Antipathy in one nation against another disposes each more readily to offer insult and injury, to lay hold of slight causes of umbrage, and to be haughty and intractable, when accidental or trifling occasions of dispute occur.
So likewise, a passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter without adequate inducement or justification. It leads also to concessions to the favorite nation of privileges denied to others which is apt doubly to injure the nation making the concessions; by unnecessarily parting with what ought to have been retained, and by exciting jealousy, ill-will, and a disposition to retaliate, in the parties from whom equal privileges are withheld. And it gives to ambitious, corrupted, or deluded citizens (who devote themselves to the favorite nation), facility to betray or sacrifice the interests of their own country, without odium, sometimes even with popularity; gilding, with the appearances of a virtuous sense of obligation, a commendable deference for public opinion, or a laudable zeal for public good, the base or foolish compliances of ambition, corruption, or infatuation.”

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/washing.htm

Report this

By Verne Arnold, July 4, 2007 at 5:52 am Link to this comment

#83818 by cyrena on 7/04 at 3:09 am
(227 comments total)

#83802 by Sepharad on 7/03 at 11:39 pm

Thanks for the read Sheparad.

Things have heated up here the last few days and the posts add up quickly.  I agree wholeheartedly with your response…a propaganda blitz has been the norm. 

Do you remember being in the forest and rolling over a rotted log and seeing hundreds of insects running every which way, to escape the light?  Watching this administration I am reminded of that.

I responded to your thoughtful response (2 parts) to my post regarding the first Libby Freed article, but because of the quickly changing “geography” here I didn’t know if you would go back to read it.  So, I will thank you again here.

Report this

By Verne Arnold, July 4, 2007 at 4:16 am Link to this comment

#83169 by Non Credo on 7/02 at 11:30 am

Amen back on ya.  Lieberman, for example, is a disgrace.  He is openly condoning the attack on Iran.  My great fear is we will do it…or pay Israel to do it for us, so we can claim no blood on our hands (who’d believe that).  If I said what we should do to Lieberman, I would probably be sent to Gitmo.

Report this

By cyrena, July 4, 2007 at 4:09 am Link to this comment

#83802 by Sepharad on 7/03 at 11:39 pm

Thanks for the read Sheparad.

Please understand that there is no disrespect intended AT ALL, but this is pretty much old stuff to me, and well, I’ve been on the ground, and seen the real deal for myself.

Now, can I make my position very clear again, unless you may have missed it. I am not, (and I do repeat this), an anti-Semite, and I very much resent the suggestion. So please, get that out of your mentality, if you are going to direct discussion to me.

So, let’s move on from the anti-Semite stuff. I am a scholar, and I’ve had the opportunity (if one could call it that) to visit the area over the years, and to study it again more recently and with my own eyes.

And, I certainly understand this major “dilemna” that Israel has had dealing with these terrible terrorists, for so long, and how you’ve been so wronged, and if only they would just stay in their cages, and not try to have jobs, or food, and heaven forbid HOUSES, (over 4,000 have been destroyed by Israel in the past 7 years, and I could of course go on.)

So, it’s because of what I KNOW to be the situation on the ground, in Gaza, as well as the West Bank, where settlers CONTINUE to move in and perpetrate violence against the people even there, and even now, and it’s been 60 years.

I’ve done the history, I’ve seen all of the resolutions that Israel has broken or failed to honor over the last half-century, and I’m simply not any dumber than the Palestinians are.

So, I’m sorry I just can’t get there with all of these excuses for why Israel has to maintain an Apartheid system, and it really doesn’t matter about the rest.

At this point in time, because of the long history of consistent aggression against them. (the Military Court System for “Palestinian’s ONLY) is a horrible joke. A farce. A tragedy.

So, unless you can tell me that Israel might consider moving back to her original designators, and giving the Palestinians a chance at a life under THEIR control, not Israel’s control, I can’t think of anything at all, that’s gonna solve this.

And I admit, as I’ve admitted before, that I honestly don’t understand the thinking on Israel’s part. It just seems like common sense to me, that if you want to live without this on-going fear, you would just TALK to these people, finally put some borders in writing, so that they will know what it is that you want them to “recognize”, and maybe that will work.

What you cannot attempt to continue feeding me, is how bad these Islamists are, because I know better. It’s a bunch of hype.

Report this
Robert's avatar

By Robert, July 4, 2007 at 2:50 am Link to this comment

Israel’s New Middle East

By Tanya Reinhart

“But Israel is not sacrificing its soldiers and citizens only to please the Bush administration. The “new Middle East” has been a dream of the Israeli ruling military circles since at least 1982, when Sharon led the country to the first Lebanon war with precisely this declared goal. Hezbollah’s leaders have argued for years that its real long-term role is to protect Lebanon, whose army is too weak to do this. They have said that Israel has never given up its aspirations for Lebanon and that the only reason it pulled out of Southern Lebanon in 2000 is because Hezbollah’s resistance has made maintaining the occupation too costly. Lebanon’s people know what every Israeli old enough to remember knows - that in the vision of Ben Gurion, Israel’s founding leader, Israel’s border should be “natural”, that is - the Jordan river in the East, and the Litani river of Lebanon in the north. In 1967, Israel gained control over the Jordan river, in the occupied Palestinian land, but all its attempts to establish the Litani border have failed so far.

As I argued in Israel/Palestine, already when the Isra! eli army left Southern Lebanon in 2000, the plans to return were ready.[12] But in Israel’s military vision, in the next round, the land should be first “cleaned” of its residents, as Israel did when it occupied the Syrian Golan Heights in 1967, and as it is doing now in southern Lebanon. To enable Israel’s eventual realization of Ben Gurion’s vision, it is necessary to establish a “friendly regime” in Lebanon, one that will collaborate in crushing any resistance. To do this, it is necessary first to destroy the country, as in the U.S. model of Iraq. These were precisely Sharon’s declared aims in the first Lebanon war. Israel and the U.S. believe that now conditions have ripened enough that these aims can finally be realized.”

Tanya Reinhart is a Professor of Linguistics at Tel Aviv University and the author of Israel/Palestine: How to End the War of 1948 and The Roadmap to Nowhere.

http://www.counterpunch.org/reinhart07272006.html

Report this

By Sepharad, July 4, 2007 at 12:39 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Cyrena, I’ve read your and other writers’ concerns for “collateral” damage, number of Palestinian civilians and children killed in the many wars, intifada, responses to Hezbollah and Hamas attacks etc. It may be hard for hardcore anti-Zionists and anti-Semites to believe, but Israelis are not monsters who deliberately set out to destroy the innocent. We are in a continual war for our survival but even so the IDF tries to fight fighters, not civilians, and the “Palestinians” and the non-Palestinians who try to oppress and involve them don’t always make that easy.

You must know that Hamas and Hezbollah and other such groups prefer to fight amidst civilians, knowing full well the result will be civilian casualties and lots of video footage to show a gullible world too ready to be convinced that Jews are childkillers. The argument that jihadists make is that Moslems will prevail worldwide because they embrace death while Israel and the West cherish life. There are five million Jews in Israel, six million in the U.S. and another five thousand scattered elsewhere in the world. There are 1+billion Moslems, many of them surrounding Israel which is as ridiculously small in size compared to the vast Arab territories as we are in number compared to the Moslems. Yasir Arafat grasped the significance of the demographics issue immediately, and liked to say that them most potent weapon is the Palestinian womb. There are nearly four million “Palestians” waiting for their lives to happen (third and fourth-generation descendents of the 750,000-800,000 Arabs who left Israel during the ‘48 war of independence). Israel, the size of the SF Bay area or Deleware, with no infrastrudcture to speak of in the years ‘48-‘45, managed to take in the 900,000 Jewish refugees driven from their homes post-‘98 and moved them into the mainstream. How long will the Palestinians remain needy, unemployed—but very disestitute after all that time? 

Provided with all that cannon fodder, with human lives as cheap as lierwurstthe Islamists are quite willing to sacrifice as many lives as it takes—though you notice that the great sheikhs are content to sit in honor while they send young people with explosive belts strapped on, or in explosive-packed cars. And parents eagerly push their children into blowing themselves up and destroying many innocent lives with them. The parents probably don’t even have to push too hard, because instead of being educated for making a life Palestinian children attend madrassas where they are exposed to nothing but religious teaching and, perhaps vilest of all, propaganda cartoons on the tv all day every day. Poets become famous writing about the brave “children of the stones” but never go near the firing lines. These people, and the Arab governments that maintain the refugees as a public difinition

All of us here have good, close, Moslem friends we actually see on a regular basis.
Israel has in the past tried very hard to establish joint economic ventures in the West Bank and inside the Israeli border. But during the second infitada, the Jews and Arabs involved in such activity were targets and murdered in disproportionately high numbers compared to the rest of the population. The Arabs’s and Jews involved in these projects were all too frequently found gagged, tortured, executed.

Report this

By Advocate4Liberty, July 3, 2007 at 11:53 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Here’s the bottom line: the people of this country have allowed our so-called leaders to perpetuate the gruesome mistake of siding with Israel to begin with. But there’s good news (sort of).

The neo-crazies and Zionists are greedy - a common human trait. They are on the verge of pulling a really bone-headed stunt, probably nuking Iran. As other analysts have pointed out, that will do more damage than all of the Israeli terrorism to date, over a much larger area to many more people.

One likely result will be China (and maybe Japan) dumping trillions of U.S. dollars like radioactive waste. Our economy tanks, we drop to a third-world standard of living, but guess what? No more American dollars to Israel: we’re broke. They won’t last six months. Every cloud has a silver lining.

Hopefully, most decent people in Israel will get out before the awful end, and cockroaches like Olmert and Lieberman and many of those settlers will sit tight while the artillery shells fall.

Eventually the U.S. may recover, after putting the politicians and “influencers” responsible in Supermax or ...

Report this
Robert's avatar

By Robert, July 3, 2007 at 10:49 pm Link to this comment

On the Edge of the Non-Violent Demonstrations
By Amira Hass

“All they had was a single hand-held loudspeaker, and people aged from 17 to 75, 300 in all. They were exposed, open, and walked toward ! the soldiers, also Israelis, who hid inside four tanks and a single jeep. It would have been very difficult to think the soldiers weren’t there, because they did what every IDF force in the territories does: They started their engines with a deafening noise, moved the cannon barrels up and down and left to right, as if aiming it at the demonstrators, issued white and black smoke from the engines, and rolled back and forth on the tank treads, those steel teeth that have chewed up the asphalt and sidewalks that European countries spent a lot of money improving.

It’s doubtful the voice coming from the loudspeaker reached the soldiers. But they must have known that every person marching toward them was an Israeli. The IDF takes a great deal of pride in its sophisticated technology, which enables daylight or nighttime identification of sources of fire. That day in Ramallah, a pair of opera glasses would have sufficed for the soldiers in the tanks to know who was marching ! outside. Who knows, maybe they recognized a neighbor, or their older sister’s philosophy teacher.

In fact, maybe the Hebrew voice reached the soldiers. The speaker, a Ph.D. in history, was emotional as he shouted “We invite the soldiers to come home.” The rest of the marchers began chanting “Soldiers come home,” and with perfect orchestration, the soldiers responded immediately with two stun grenades. Don’t be afraid, said an Israeli woman with some experience in these kinds of events. That’s nothing but noise. It’s just meant to frighten us.

That’s not exactly true. When a stun grenade falls inside a crowd, and not away from it, the way they are supposed to, it can burn, harm eyes, wound, even break a bone. Dozens of Palestinians who stood unarmed over the past year opposite soldiers have been wounded that way. During the last 16 months, the Palestinians tried dozens, if not hundreds, of times to hold non-violent demonstrations against IDF forces.

It’s impossible to march on the settlements. Banks of tanks and machine guns, fortifications, reinforced outposts and roads for Jews only block direct access to the settlements. The IDF Spokesman’s Office has spun a myth that every clash that ended with Palestinian casualties was a conflict between two armed sides.

IDF and Border Patrol troops have made clear innumerable times that any gathering of people opposite its forces is considered a dangerous “disturbance of the peace” that requires a response. Sometimes clubbing and violent dragging, then come the stun grenades, maybe tear gas, and very quickly firing live ammunition into the air and then shooting rubber-coated steel pellets into the crowd. The steel pellets are covered with a thin layer of rubber, sometimes it’s live ammunition.

Sometimes the shooting starts before any of the demonstrators have managed to throw a stone. Often, the shooting is in response to stone-throwing by teenagers who hide behind ! improvised barricades. Sometimes they are shot in the head, sometimes the pellets strike protesters standing in albeit dangerous places, but dozens of meters away from the stone-throwers. To someone who has been at these non-violent demonstrations in recent months, it appears the IDF has long since gone past what was thought to be its limits. The Israelis that day in Ramallah decided not to test the limits, and dispersed on their own, going to their next meeting with the Palestinians.

For Palestinian activists to organize dozens of non-violent demonstrations that would march simultaneously toward IDF forces, they would need some guarantee that the soldiers wouldn’t cross the red lines into mass murder. Only Israeli society can provide that guarantee.”

http://www.counterpunch.org/hass1.html

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, July 3, 2007 at 10:03 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Told you…the virulent anti-semites are out: Vinnie, Blahblahblah and GodSend—these neo-nazis make Fadel look like a Democrat!

BBBBB is a holocaust-denier. All holocaust-deniers are neo-nazis.  Period.  No argument is possible—the Holocaust is the best-documented crime in history. I won’t argue with a nazi—you just want an excuse to rehabilitate Hitler and National Socialism, and institutionalize biological racism.  Tell me, do you call African-Americans “mud people”? Do you always refer to MLK “Martin Luther McCoon”?  Those are the classic “code words” for American nazis and kluckers.

As for GodSend—I’ll bet your patron saint is Torquemada—the chief torturer of the Spanish Inquisition.  Your “religious” garbage is meaningless to me—I am Agnostic and you might as well be threatening me with The Great Pumpkin.  All it tells me is that you are irrational and therefore dangerous.  If there were a God, he would see in you as great an evil as this world has ever seen.  Jesus would weep at the venom you spew.  Despite all the good, kind people who worship Jesus, YOUR existence as a so-called follower of him is the best argument against his divinity.

TW: THESE 3 are PRECISELY the foundation of my arguments against yours.  They are the same mindset as the leaders of Hamas, and for decades the leaders of Fatah.  Please tell me HOW Israel could open its doors to people who think like Vinnie, Blah and GodSend and expect NOT to be slaughtered?

Robert, even you have to see the evil in these 3.

Report this
GodSend's avatar

By GodSend, July 3, 2007 at 8:43 pm Link to this comment

Jewish “Soul-Sickness” could well be Denial of the Deity of Jesus the Christ - their very own Messiah! (we all know what they did to Him, the Holy One of Israel, whose coming was prophesied by the Jewish prophet Isaiah, long before He appeared). But wait, there’s Good News: It’s a disease that’s curable - ask any Messianic Jew! smile

Report this
GodSend's avatar

By GodSend, July 3, 2007 at 8:36 pm Link to this comment

‘Inherit the Wind’ (should be ‘Reap the Whirlwind’) and ‘Elvis’ both made the same Freudian slip in recent posts (Freud was Jewish, of course) wink -  they alluded to ‘demonic powers’ associated with Jews. Well, it’s not Jews BUT it is Zionists who possess demonic powers - or rather, demonic powers possess them! Zionists worship in the “Synagogue of Satan” and guess who is waiting there to be worshiped? Yup, that old Devil who was cast out of Heaven and who deceives the whole world, in fact, he is “the god of this world”. Jesus the Christ got it right (what else is new) when He made those statements.

SEE my website for a full understanding of who Zionists (leaders of Israel and American Zionist politicians from all parties) really are and what they’re ‘up to’. The short answer is ‘rebellion against Yahweh’ - again! Neturei Karta Jews (true Torah Jews) explain it very well on their website. smile

Report this
Robert's avatar

By Robert, July 3, 2007 at 8:14 pm Link to this comment

Terrorism and Collective Punishment
68 women gave birth on checkpoints,
34 infants and 4 women died
Saed Bannoura
IMEMC & Agencies
April 11, 2007

The Palestinian Independent Commission for Citizens Rights (PICCR) reported that Israeli troops stationed at hundreds of roadblocks in the occupied territories barred dozens of pregnant women from crossing the checkpoints while in labor; 34 infants and four women died on their roadblocks.


Soldiers searching a Palestinian Ambulance

The Commission reported that soldiers forced 68 pregnant women to give birth on road blocks after barring them from crossing as they were being transferred to hospitals and medical centers.

Also, the PICCR said that the Israeli procedures complicated the lives of the Palestinian civilians including pregnant women by enforcing harsh conditions and carrying illegal practices at these checkpoints.

Since the beginning of the Al Aqsa Intifada on September 28 2000 until July 2006, 68 pregnant women had to give birth at checkpoints, and that 34 infants and 4 pregnant women died on these checkpoints.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/cur_sit/68births.html

Report this
Robert's avatar

By Robert, July 3, 2007 at 8:03 pm Link to this comment

Ill-lie-mamzer…Look you who wants to preach to us about rudeness? Its ill-lie-mamzer (341 comments total) of the worst forms of rudeness & zionist sarcasm.

Keep it up…ill-ill-mamzer…gives us 10 more hysterical rude posts.

WE CAN’T STOP YOUR DISEASED & DEFORMED ZIONIST PERSPECTIVES!

YOUR ZIONISM IS WRONG.

Report this

By Blablahblah, July 3, 2007 at 7:59 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

A great article on the leech that is Israel and what do we see in “refutation”?

Predictable stale whines about the Nazi Party from the middle of last CENTURY and other meaningless distraction.

Inherit The Wind, as a rabid holocaust-insister, refuses to admit many many MANY Jews and Rabbi attended the holocaust skeptics conference in Iran.

You know, Iran, the country that has openly provided a home and living for tens and tens and tens of thousands of jews - the most number of jews in the mid east second only to israel itself.

I smell the same clowns behind the “Irans president threatened to wipe wipe israel off of the map” lie….All they have is lies..

Next were going to hear more absurd Zionist poison like…get read folks…“Iran just hates jews”!.......The irony!...LOL!...By the way..Who wiped Palestine off the map anyway?..THAT one is a REAL fact!

Israel is a hub of NOTHING - its a mutli billion dollar LEECH on the American taxpayer..Welfare state extraordinare.


We dont need it. It means nothing except to the fringe religious fanatic right.

DECALRE INDEPENDENCE FROM “ISRAEL”!

The only ones who will disagree are well…the same old same old.

Report this

By lilmamzer, July 3, 2007 at 7:58 pm Link to this comment

#83735 by weather:

How do you say pathologic denial in Hebrew?

You say it like this: WEATHER

Report this

By weather, July 3, 2007 at 7:55 pm Link to this comment

Israel shoots themselves in the Head.

Standing outside the gates to Heaven they refuse to budge, demanding that God first find, identify and punish the assailant.

How do you say pathologic denial in Hebrew?

Report this
Tony Wicher's avatar

By Tony Wicher, July 3, 2007 at 7:54 pm Link to this comment

#83694 by Inherit The Wind on 7/03 at 5:18 pm
(Unregistered commenter)

“Vinnie Faggio the Kike Zionist on 7/03 at 3:10 pm
(Unregistered commenter)

Kike Zionists did 9-11. ”

There we have it, folks. I TOLD you all the “anti-Israel” types were really just old fashioned nazis and kluckers who blame Jews for everything—the lie doesn’t matter, just get it out there.

Yo, Vinnie—got your swastika on right, you nazi bastard? “

ITW, lilmamzer, lefty and I all agree on this one, I believe - as probably does everybody else on this thread. The Zionist smear is to equate responsible and well-intentioned critics, who are actually friends of Jewish people, with real anti-Semites. By doing this you give these real anti-Semites aid and comfort. “Zionism is racism” is not anti-Semitism, it is the truth. “Kike Zionists did 9-11” - now THAT’s snti-Semitism.  So yeah, pin on your swastika and take your seig-heiling ass elsewere, Vinnie.

Report this

By lilmamzer, July 3, 2007 at 7:53 pm Link to this comment

#83731 by Robert:

WE CAN’T STOP YOUR DESEASE STATE OF MIND!

FYI: it’s spelled D-I-S-E-A-S-E, and in the context of your sentence, it should have a “D” on the end, as in “DISEASED”.

Also, Robert - typing in caps on a post is like shouting. It’s rude. Raising your voice does not raise the level of your game.

Report this

By lilmamzer, July 3, 2007 at 7:49 pm Link to this comment

#83729 by weather:

Israel suffers from a soul sickness that is very old and remains untreated.

“Soul sickness”?

What are your qualifications for passing judgment on a an entire nation’s “soul”?

While you are describing your qualifications, Dr, Freud, what exactly is the “soul” of a nation? I’m looking for something beyond rhetoric. I want you to lay out a fact-based and rational argument instead of spouting meaningless cliches and buzzwords.

Report this
Robert's avatar

By Robert, July 3, 2007 at 7:47 pm Link to this comment

Ill-lie-mamzer…zionist and zionism have no concepts for rationality!

When you become rational, people of TRUTH and rationality will listen and let you know.

Keep it up (338 comments total) for your resume and record of lies and NO rationality!


WE CAN’T STOP YOUR DESEASE STATE OF MIND!

Report this

By weather, July 3, 2007 at 7:44 pm Link to this comment

Israel suffers from a soul sickness that is very old and remains untreated.

Until Israel confronts their own dark truths and finally heals themselves w/out manipulating blame unto others Peace and humility will continue to elude them.

Report this

By lilmamzer, July 3, 2007 at 7:40 pm Link to this comment

#83722 by Robert:

Ill-lie mamzer…wants to know who is ranting away?

ILL-lll-mamzer…that is an easy response.

ITS YOUR (337 comments total)...THAT IS WHO IS RANTING AWAY !

GO AHEAD…POST 10 MORE OF YOUR LIES AND ZIONIST GARBAGE. GET HYSTERICAL WITH MORE POSTS!

WE CAN’T STOP YOUR BESEASE STATE!

I give you the best of both: quantity AND quality.

I especially like this one, Robert:

GET HYSTERICAL WITH MORE POSTS!

How about this: I’ll post rational arguments and YOU get hysterical. Seems to be working well so far. OK?  grin

Report this
Robert's avatar

By Robert, July 3, 2007 at 7:33 pm Link to this comment

Ill-lie mamzer…wants to know who is ranting away?

ILL-lll-mamzer…that is an easy response.

ITS YOUR (337 comments total)...THAT IS WHO IS RANTING AWAY !

GO AHEAD…POST 10 MORE OF YOUR LIES AND ZIONIST GARBAGE. GET HYSTERICAL WITH MORE POSTS!

WE CAN’T STOP YOUR DESEASE STATE!

Report this
Robert's avatar

By Robert, July 3, 2007 at 7:33 pm Link to this comment

Ill-lie mamzer…wants to know who is ranting away?

ILL-lll-mamzer…that is an easy response.

ITS YOUR (337 comments total)...THAT IS WHO IS RANTING AWAY !

GO AHEAD…POST 10 MORE OF YOUR LIES AND ZIONIST GARBAGE. GET HYSTERICAL WITH MORE POSTS!

WE CAN’T STOP YOUR BESEASE STATE!

Report this

By lilmamzer, July 3, 2007 at 7:32 pm Link to this comment

#83715 by Non Credo:

I am full of compassion for your mental disability, Lilmamzer.

Try reading this very slowly:

If you have a big chunk of “local” people living in territory over which you have effective sovereign control,

- and those people aren’t and can’t ever be citizens,

- and they can’t vote in your elections,

- and these people constitute a substantial proportion of the people living in the territory over which your government has effective sovereignty,

- then your country isn’t a democracy, you cretin.

Spare me your compassion. Don’t want it, don’t need it.  grin

Your turn to read slowly:

The local Egyptian and Jordanian leftovers have the power to make themselves citizens of their own country. Just not in Israel.

That does not mean Israel is therefore NOT a democracy.

It certainly is because her citizens create, ratify, and repeal her laws and elect her leaders through the democratic process.

Japan was occupied by the US for years after WWII, and no Japanese citizen living in postwar occupied japan voted in American elections. they weren’t citizens. It didn’t make the US any less democratic.

The Japanese learned how to reform and govern themselves without constituting a threat to their neighbors. Now it’s the “Palestinian” Arabs turn.

The analogy holds.

Report this

By lilmamzer, July 3, 2007 at 7:25 pm Link to this comment

#83710 by Robert:

Ill-lie-mamzer…gets hysterical with his posts clusters. He thinks that he can dilute the TRUTH about his Apartheid Israel and zionism. He just keeps posting & ranting away like a paranoid psychotic…hoping to sidetrack the issues! Look at his comment #s…its all trash and sick zionist sarcasm!

ZIONISM IS WRONG, ZIONISM IS RACISM, ZIONISM IS APARTHEID. EQUAL RIGHTS FOR ALL PEOPLE IS NOT A ZIONIST BELIEF. EQUAL RIGHTS FOR “JEWS ONLY” IS WHAT ZIONISTS & ISRAEL BELIEVE IN & PRACTICE!

So who’s ranting? grin

Report this

By cyrena, July 3, 2007 at 7:02 pm Link to this comment

#83686 by Robert on 7/03 at 5:07 pm

Robert,

Reading this piece on the Nakba and the Zochrot reminded me immediately of an excellent book, that explains much of the same.

The Title is The Lemon Tree, and while I have read reviews that claim it to be biased, I did not find that at all. It simply tells the story of a house that is claimed by two families, one Jewish, and one Arab.

I highly recommend it.
Sorry, can’t remember the author now.

Report this
Robert's avatar

By Robert, July 3, 2007 at 7:02 pm Link to this comment

Comment #83640 by Jbart on 7/3 at 3:03 pm

“To Jacob*, ITW and lefty, et all…Are you guys Jewish, per chance?

—————————————————————————

Jbart…these guys are fanatic zionists to the core. Some will say they are not Jewish, some will say they were raised atheists, some are Jewish zionists…etc…, but for sure they are hard core zionist zealots. And BTW, they have a right to their religion and/or belief(S).

“Ill-lie-Mamzer”, BTW, Mamzer in Hebrew means “Bastard”. Why he chose such a name…NO ONE KNOWS, but that is his business? These zionist most likely got brainwashed and infected with the most gruesome forms of zionism’s ideologies, right here in these United States. All they care about on these threads is planting doubt, labeling commenters as anti-semetic, promoting and supporting zionism racist and Apartheid ideologies.

Ill-lie-mamzer…gets hysterical with his posts clusters. He thinks that he can dilute the TRUTH about his Apartheid Israel and zionism. He just keeps posting & ranting away like a paranoid psychotic…hoping to sidetrack the issues! Look at his comment #s…its all trash and sick zionist sarcasm!

ZIONISM IS WRONG, ZIONISM IS RACISM, ZIONISM IS APARTHEID. EQUAL RIGHTS FOR ALL PEOPLE IS NOT A ZIONIST BELIEF. EQUAL RIGHTS FOR “JEWS ONLY” IS WHAT ZIONISTS & ISRAEL BELIEVE IN & PRACTICE!

Report this
Paolo's avatar

By Paolo, July 3, 2007 at 6:56 pm Link to this comment

George W. Bush does it again. He said Iraq needs to emulate Israel and become a “democracy.”

In order to do that, Iraq should set up a government agency that would grant instantaneous, automatic citizenship to all Shi’ite Muslims. Of course, a Grand Imam would have to be appointed to make sure no one fakes their being Shi’ite. This would emulate the Israeli “right of return” instantaneous citizenship for any Jews (as well as the Rabbinical authority who gets to decide just who is and is not a “Jew”). Muslims and Christians, of course, have to go to the end of the line. Sunnis would go way, way to the end of the line (in our ideal Shi’ite State).

Then, you’d have a “Shi’ite State,” just as Israel is a “Jewish State.”

But wait, you might protest. That Shi’ite State would not be a “democracy.”

Neither is Israel.

Not that, as a libertarian, I put much stock in democracy, anyway. Democracy just means 50 percent plus one gets to decide who the oppressor is going to be. I’d rather just do away with oppressors, myself. The concept of “limited government” is far more important to a free society than the concept of “democracy.”

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, July 3, 2007 at 6:28 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

weather on 7/03 at 3:56 pm
(27 comments total)

Israel is its own worst enemy.
No friends, just resentments, acrimony, distrust and hate. Good job and just think Israel, you have no one to thank but yourselves.
What is really tragic, we’ve been infected now too. Go ahead Israel slide-up and take a bow, it only took 50yrs. to distinguish yourself as a Global pariah, but stay stuck in the pathology of your denial - it’s your drug of choice.

Translation: How DARE you fight back and defend yourself from enemies sworn to slaughter every last one of you, women and children included!  It’s damned uncivilized to NOT let yourself be murdered.

Weather blames the victim for the victim’s problems—like blaming a rape victim for dressing attractively.

Where do these vermin come from.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, July 3, 2007 at 6:23 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“darryl on 7/03 at 3:35 pm
(Unregistered commenter)

israel is hated by every countrty in the world that should tell you something “

It tells me the kluckers are coming out of the woodwork like termites. Where did you get this bullshit excuse for a “fact”? David Duke’s website?

You are living proof of what I’ve been saying for months: Every half century or so the assholes crawl out from under their slimy rocks to insist that all the world’s problems will be solved if only all the Jews are slaughtered.

As if!

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, July 3, 2007 at 6:18 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“Vinnie Faggio the Kike Zionist on 7/03 at 3:10 pm
(Unregistered commenter)

Kike Zionists did 9-11. “

There we have it, folks. I TOLD you all the “anti-Israel” types were really just old fashioned nazis and kluckers who blame Jews for everything—the lie doesn’t matter, just get it out there.

Yo, Vinnie—got your swastika on right, you nazi bastard?

Report this

By lilmamzer, July 3, 2007 at 6:12 pm Link to this comment

#83686 by Robert:

What the leftover Jordanian and Egyptian Arabs need is a lot less fixating on the “nakba” and wallowing in self-pity, and a lot more coming to terms with how they are going to live in peaceful coexistence with the Israelis.

All these articles from the WRMEA (which you should just link to, by the way - it’s frickin’ tedious to have to scroll past that stuff all the time, Robert) never address how these local Arabs can help themselves instead of nursing all their grievances. People are getting so tired of it.

Report this

By lilmamzer, July 3, 2007 at 6:08 pm Link to this comment

#83678 by puzzled:

So, can someone tell me please, why is Israel, this beacon of democracy, called “shitty little country”?

For the same reason you did: bigots shoot their mouths off all the time.

Report this
Robert's avatar

By Robert, July 3, 2007 at 6:07 pm Link to this comment

Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, May-June 2007

Special Report

Norma Musih, Zochrot and the Nakba
By Robert Hirschfield
 
Norma Musih of Zochrot (Photo R. Hirschfield).

 
NORMA MUSIH, a young, soft-spoken teacher from Jaffa, does not look like a woman who would elicit telephone death threats. But she and the members of her group, Zochrot—which means “remembrance,” and which was founded in 2002 by Israeli activists and scholars—have devoted themselves to commemorating, understanding and teaching about a subject that in Israel is plainly subversive: the Palestinian Nakba.

Musih recently stood in front of a mostly progressive New York Jewish audience, brought together by Brooklyn Parents For Peace, and talked about Zochrot and the Nakba.

“For us,” she explained, “1948 was the independence war, the State of Israel being created. A great event for the Jews. For Palestinians, it was the loss of everything, the big catastrophe—Nakba! Most Israelis don’t want to know this word, don’t want to hear it.”

Zochrot works to get that word through to Israelis, to get it heard, to have it understood.

Musih showed her audience slides she brought with her—graphics of displacement. One was of the Etzel Museum at Manshiyye, built on the ruins of a Palestinian house.

“There is nothing there about the story of the house,” she said. “The house tells its own story.”

In another slide, Adnan Mahmid, from the village of Lajjun, points to where his house had stood. Now it’s just an empty space.

One of Zochrot’s activities is putting up signs in places where there once were Arab villages, naming them, commemorating them.

“They are usually removed after 15 minutes,” Musih said. “At best, two hours.”

Less easy to destroy are the oral histories Zochrot gathers from Palestinians, stories of places and lives before the Nakba. Zochrot members go to Arab villages taking testimonies that then appear in booklets and videos.

Zochrot is similar in a way to groups in Poland and Germany dedicated to understanding and atoning for the destruction of Jewish life and culture in their countries.

“At first, the Nakba was something I couldn’t understand,” Musih said. “But I felt there was something there I must face. I had to explore what that was. Now I see that the Nakba belongs to us as well as to the Palestinians. It is part of our healing process.”

Musih spends much of her time trying to educate Israelis, especially children, about the Nakba. In one of her exercises with children, she hands each child a card on which are the names of Palestinian villages that were destroyed, or from which Arabs were driven out. The children are to put their cards in their proper places on the map.

“One Israeli girl put back on the map the village her father had destroyed,” Musih recalled.

A Palestinian child, whose card had the name of Birrem, his village, told its story, as well as restoring it on the map.

On one of Musih’s slides, an Israeli girl asks the question: “Who does my house belong to?”

Zochrot commemorates Nakba Day by bringing together Jews and Arabs in Tel Aviv. The event is publicized with a light touch. Stickers are put up with cartoon balloons emerging from people’s mouths, saying, “I almost forgot—today is Nakba Day!” One of the balloons—Musih laughed, pointing to it—emerged from the mouth of a stern-faced Theodore Herzl.

http://www.wrmea.com/archives/May-June_2007/0705025.html

Report this

By lilmamzer, July 3, 2007 at 6:01 pm Link to this comment

#83646 by I know that I know nothing:

The first paragraph claims that Israel probably would have been extinct without US help in 1973, while the rest of the piece argues that the US should ‘declare its independence of Israel.’ Hm….

Hedges just doesn’t have the cojones to say outright
what the rest of his writing makes clear: that it would have been better had the US left Israel to its fate rather than lend a helping hand.
—————————-

Regardless of one’s view of Israel, an article that could be read thusly should not ba applauded - unless, of course, one is politically somewhere to the right of Adolf Hitler.

The Israel-bashers here at Truthdig occupy a Jew-hating space so far to the left, in fact, that they have reached the point of convergence with the fascist far right of David Duke, and, as you mentioned, Adolph Hitler.

This is one reason why I have moved from left of center towards the actual center in recent years - the way the left has cozied up to Israel-bashing opportunists and world-class despots like Hugo Chavez and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. It makes a mockery of what “progressive” politics used to be about. Human rights for everyone except, of course, if they are members of that one nation that has no legitimate excuse for existing. Just ask Hedges about that.

Report this

By puzzled, July 3, 2007 at 5:49 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

So, can someone tell me please, why is Israel, this beacon of democracy, called “shitty little country”?

Report this

By lilmamzer, July 3, 2007 at 5:45 pm Link to this comment

#83640 by jbart:

BTW, I’m NOT an anti-semite, simply a man who has opinion(s).

Why would anyone think that?

Report this

By lilmamzer, July 3, 2007 at 5:43 pm Link to this comment

#83643 by Vinnie Faggio the Kike Zionist:

Kike Zionists did 9-11.

Hedges, this one’s yours.

Report this

By lilmamzer, July 3, 2007 at 5:38 pm Link to this comment

#83665 by Elvis:

Hedges is not an anti-semite because he criticizes Israel. Hedges IS an anti-semite becaue he alleges that Jews control the US.

There is legitimate criticism of Israel, and then there is criticism of Israel which actually IS antisemitic. The test is whether the critic consistently holds Israel to standards of conduct that are not applied to other nations in similar situations. If the critic applies a double-standard,  and employs arguments whose thrusts are the delegitimization of Israel as a national expression of Jewish self-determination, such criticism is evidence of antisemitic bias.

Report this

By cuthean, July 3, 2007 at 5:25 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

no credo writes:
” No, it isn’t, Lefty.

Israel effectively rules over all of the non-Jewish Palestinians in the occupied territories, and these people can’t vote in Israeli elections.

If a major portion of the population you lord it over can’t vote in your elections, then you’re not a democracy.

Sorry this is so embarrassingly obvious. Sux to be you, we guess. “


how is this any different than here in occupied ZOG ‘kwa?

Report this

By Elvis, July 3, 2007 at 5:20 pm Link to this comment

Hedges is not an anti-semite because he criticizes Israel. Hedges IS an anti-semite becaue he alleges that Jews control the US. For a small group of people to cause a larger group of people to work against their interests requires demonic powers. Enders, have your ever thought that the reason Americans support Israel is because they share common beliefs? If you dont like it here, move to Pakistan and join up with expats with similar beliefs to yourself, such as Adam Gadahn

Report this

By lilmamzer, July 3, 2007 at 5:06 pm Link to this comment

#83656 by weather:

Israel is its own worst enemy.
No friends, just resentments, acrimony, distrust and hate.

Au contraire - she has many friends.

Just not here in this dank little corner of the internet.

Report this

By lilmamzer, July 3, 2007 at 5:03 pm Link to this comment

#83631 by jbart:

BTW, how much aid does Israel give to the under-privileged countries of the world? Please let me know of the benevolent nature of Israel. I’m ANXIOUSLY awaiting your information. Because Israel is such a religious country, one can only assume that it’s degree of charity and spreading good will around the world is extensive.

<u>Some more interesting projects:</u>

Dozens of Africans & Asians arrive in Israel to Learn About Development -
Israel, January 19, 2007

Throughout the month of January three delegations from Nigeria, South Africa and India’s cooperative movements came to Be’er Sheva, the capital of the Negev, to learn about entrepreneurship, leadership, rural development and rural finance.
———————————

Israeli Reconstruction Program Helps Tsunami Affected Province in Sri Lanka -
Tel Aviv, Tal Hotel, December 14, 2005

International Steering Committee will convened in Tel Aviv in order to proceed with the plans of helping in the rehabilitation program in Sri Lanka which was hit a year ago by a devastating Tsunami.
———————————

Africans Trained in Israel on Ways of Establishing Small Enterprises -
Be’er Sheva, Israel, October 10, 2004

The Negev Institute for Strategies of Peace and Development conducts training course for people arriving from Africa.
———————————


In Sri Lanka, New Trauma and Emergency Medical Response Project -
Sri Lanka, March 2007

The Joint Distribution Committee has entered a partnership with Israeli Development Agency (MASHAV) and Sri Lankan Ministry of Health for the development of a trauma and emergency response system in the Sri Lankan health sector.
———————————

TSUNAMI Building Back Better: Reflecting on The Past Two Years -
SE Asia, December 2006

Two years later the Joint Distribution Committee still has dozens of programs implemented in Sri Lanka, Thailand, Indonesia and India now in a phase of longer-term development, have primarily focus on the areas of education, reconstruction, and employment/livelihood rehabilitation.

Report this

By weather, July 3, 2007 at 4:56 pm Link to this comment

Israel is its own worst enemy.
No friends, just resentments, acrimony, distrust and hate. Good job and just think Israel, you have no one to thank but yourselves.
  What is really tragic, we’ve been infected now too. Go ahead Israel slide-up and take a bow, it only took 50yrs. to distinguish yourself as a Global pariah, but stay stuck in the pathology of your denial - it’s your drug of choice.

Report this

By lilmamzer, July 3, 2007 at 4:53 pm Link to this comment

#83631 by jbart:

BTW, how much aid does Israel give to the under-privileged countries of the world? Please let me know of the benevolent nature of Israel. I’m ANXIOUSLY awaiting your information. Because Israel is such a religious country, one can only assume that it’s degree of charity and spreading good will around the world is extensive.

Israel is a very small country with limited resources for extraterritorial aid missions and certainly outright monetary grants, but charity and “tikkun olam” (Hebrew for ‘repairing the world’) are fundamental Jewish (and hence, Israeli) values.

Here’s a source of current Israeli aid missions around the world:

http://www.israaid.org.il/

“IsraAID is a coordinating body of Israeli and Jewish organizations and other interested parties based in Israel who are active in development and relief work and are concerned about global issues”

Some current projects:

Israel to provide eye treatment for South Sudanese refugees in Kenya - Kenya, July 1st, 2007

Israeli eye doctors would arrive on July 2nd to operate on dozens of patients in Kakuma camp for a duration of two-weeks.
————————

Group of 41 Young Israelis Aid Nepal’s Poorest -    Nepal, June 20, 2007

For the past month and a half a group of 41 Israeli volunteers and backpackers have been aiding Nepalese in Katmandu and the suburbs. The volunteers are working under the umbrella of the Israeli aid organization Tevel Betzedek which initiated this unique program.
————————-

Israeli agricultural expertise aids Tibetan refugees - Israel, May 24, 2007

Israel21c reports about a group of 50 Tibetans who have come to Israel for a year to learn agricultural techniques from Israeli farmers.
————————-

Israel launches humanitarian mission in Vietnam -    Vietnam, May 20, 2007

Dr. Rafi Kot an Israeli doctor living in Vietnam arranged a medical mission consisting of 54 doctors from around the world among them Israelis to travel to remote areas in Vietnam and aid the local population.
————————-

I also remember when Katrina hit New Orleans, there were teams of Israeli medical and disaster relief specialists helping out down there. Same for when the tsunami devastated Southeast Asia - there were teams of Israeli relief workers in Thailand, Sri Lanka, and elsewhere. Last year when Iran was hit by some big earthquakes, the Mullahs refused Israeli offers of humanitarian assistance. Many lives could have been saved - Israelis have experience with rescuing people from collapsed structures - an unfortunate expertise developed over years of suffering suicide bombings.

There’s lots more, too many to list…......check it out for yourself at the website above.

Report this

By lilmamzer, July 3, 2007 at 4:40 pm Link to this comment

#83631 by jbart:

What’s with the “tired boilerplate crap” you attribute to Chris Hedges? Is your method of debate that banal? That simplistic?

What do you mean. “what’s with” it? That’s what I think of Hedges screed. It’s OLD STUFF. USS Liberty? Been there, done that, it’s OVER. Standard Israel-bashing talking points. All of it. And he gets so many things wrong. I did say I would do a comprehensive Fisking of this piece. Are you that anxious?
——————————-

Criticize through “condescending” comment? To you, and lilmamzer, and other Israeli backers/shills

Shills? That’s condescending.
———————————

Why does Israel deserve the exorbinant amounts of U.S. taxpayer funds/Aid? You need to avoid the potential annilation by the Arabs? Potential is the operative term here.

Hedges did get at least one thing right - his account of the ‘73 war. Hedges writes, “The country came perilously close to extinction during the October 1973 war when Egypt, trained and backed by the Soviet Union, crossed the Suez and the Syrians poured in over the Golan Heights.” There you go.
————————————-

We, the U.S. get as much payback from Darfor, in terms of reciprocation,as we do from Israel.

You don’t understand how valuable a trading partner Israel is with the US and the rest of the world. Sudan, for all the plight of the Darfur refugees who are being slaughtered by the Janjaweed Muslims, does not contribute in any meaningful way to the global marketplace of goods, services, and ideas. I’m not arguing for abandoning Darfur at all. Just saying that Israel is a first-world center of research and development with significant relationships in many industries. There are strategic and moral dimensions of the relationship that developed and evolved through the Cold War and now into the current situation with malignant extremist Islam. Israel is our partner in that fight. Of course, you will disagree, but we benefit from her as an ally, in the opinion of most Americans.
——————————————

Is it because the jews are “God’s chosen”?

Your understanding and use of that term is flawed. Ask a rabbi. You attach a negative connotation where there is none.
—————————————-

Be objective, and unbiased, whenever you post. Leave your “agenda” away from your comments

You are incoherent. Everyone posting here has a bias. I certainly do. So do you. It means you have a point of view. Your agenda seems to be to cut off Israel from close diplomatic, military, and economic ties to the US. That implies a very strong bias. I disagree entirely. I have my own biases. Why should I automatically drop mine in favor of yours when I believe yours to be wrong on many levels? You can’t agree to disagree?

Report this

By darryl, July 3, 2007 at 4:35 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

israel is hated by every countrty in the world that should tell you something

Report this

By I know that I know nothing, July 3, 2007 at 4:20 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Hey lefty - movies made by Horowitz’ freedom center have a priori a low credibility status. 


Oh, the comedy of it all!  Last time Mr. Hedges starred on truthdig he was relentlessly attacked for his dishonest and shameful performance in his debate with Sam Harris.  At the time I commented to the effect that such blatant sophistry impugned the integrety of his reporting on the Christian right.  The total cynic in me also thought that all a sophist like Hedges has to do to get back on the good side of most of the truthdig crowd is to writean article bashing Israel.  And sure enough, here comes Chrissy.
So why am I not laughing?  Like any written piece, there are many ways to interpret this article.  Clearly one possible interpretation is that Hedges expresses his regret here that the 1973 war did not end with a final solution to the Israel problem. 
The first paragraph claims that Israel probably would have been extinct without US help in 1973, while the rest of the piece argues that the US should ‘declare its independence of Israel.’ Hm….

Regardless of one’s view of Israel, an article that could be read thusly should not ba applauded - unless, of course, one is politically somewhere to the right of Adolf Hitler.

Report this

By Vinnie Faggio the Kike Zionist, July 3, 2007 at 4:10 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Kike Zionists did 9-11.

Report this

By jbart, July 3, 2007 at 4:03 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

To Jacob*, inherit the wind, lefty, et all…
Are you guys Jewish, per chance? You all seem to be willing to profess your thoughts)in an biased/pro Israel way. Is it that you can only see reality throgh “colored glasses” or are you really believing what you say you do? I’m just wondering if there’s a direct correlation with your thoughts &the; “objective” truths of the situation. This is just to consider things to ponder when you look for varying opinions to your own. BTW,I’m NOT an anti-semite, simply a man who has opinion(s).

Report this

By jbart, July 3, 2007 at 3:31 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

As predicted,very early after this story/editorial broke/was published on this site, the two sides are at each other’s throats. Good,and it should be so. The passions on both sides of this debate need to vent.
To CYRENA…You are absolutely correct when you speak of the ideals/morality of the faith of Islam. I have a brother-in-law who is a devout Muslim. He leads a good life, respects my sister,and is a pleasure to engage in deep conversations re:his religion and life in general. And he tells me that he is in the majority of Islamics who interpret the KORAN as others do the Bible and the Old Testament. Being a devout atheiest,I can understand, and accept, that he believes what he believes.
Now on to JACOB…What’s with the “tired boilerplate crap” you attribute to Chris Hedges? Is your method of debate that banal? That simplistic? Criticize through “condescending” comment? To you, and lilmamzer, and other Israeli backers/shills, I have a simple question. WHAT MAKES YOU/ISRAEL so important to the needs/Security of the U.S.A.? Huh? Why does Israel deserve the exorbinant amounts of U.S. taxpayer funds/Aid? You need to avoid the potential annilation by the Arabs? Potential is the operative term here. Potential. How about Darfor? Potential? Or ACTUALLY occurring? Get my point? We, the U.S. get as much payback from Darfor, in terms of reciprocation,as we do from Israel. And,at least, they leave our gov’t alone. They don’t try to “bribe” our elected officials to support their agenda. Is it because the jews are “God’s chosen”? Why not give us all a break here. Be objective, and unbiased, whenever you post. Leave your “agenda” away from your comments and realize that we/Americans are seeing the wrongs done in the past, and the havoc and death that has be realized, and want a change in direction. BTW, how much aid does Israel give to the under-privileged countries of the world? Please let me know of the benevolent nature of Israel. I’m ANXIOUSLY awaiting your information. Because Israel is such a religious country, one can only assume that it’s degree of charity and spreading good will around the world is extensive.

Report this
Robert's avatar

By Robert, July 3, 2007 at 3:28 pm Link to this comment

NEXT IN-LINE TO BE PARDONED BY BUSH…THE ISRAELI SPY ,“JONATHAN POLLARD” ...PERHAPS 12/2008 OR 01/2009.

I wonder what “Bush” feels about Israel spying on the U.S., such as, the zionist anti-American monster, Jonathan Pollard.

Jonathan Pollard is a convicted Israeli spy and a former United States Naval civilian intelligence analyst. Pollard pleaded guilty and was convicted on one count of spying for Israel, receiving a life sentence in 1986 with a recommendation against parole. Israel publicly denied that Pollard was an Israeli spy until 1998, when he was granted Israeli citizenship.

According to Eric Margolis in the Toronto Sun, Pollard provided Israel with the names of Amerivan agents in the Soviet Union. Margolis also alleges that the names were later traded to the Soviet Union by Israel and a number of key CIA agents were executed as a result. Seymour Hersh in The New Yorker claims that “a number of officials strongly suspect that the Israelis repackaged much of Pollard’s material and provided it to the Soviet Union in exchange for continued Soviet permission for Jews to emigrate to Israel.“and that” a significant percentage of Pollard’s documents, including some that described the techniques the American Navy used to track Soviet submarines around the world, was of practical importance only to the Soviet Union”

Pollard’s superiors at the Navy Field Operational Office in Washington, D.C. grew suspicious of Pollard’s conduct. Stacks of classified documents unrelated to his work were repeatedly found in his office. The FBI was soon called in to investigate, and they arrested Pollard in November 1985. Any hopes of keeping the scandal under wraps were dashed when Pollard attempted to avoid arrest by requesting asylum at the Israeli embassy, as originally ordered by his Israeli handlers from Lekem (his controller was Rafi Eitan, former head of Lekem.) The Israeli embassy nevertheless refused to grant Pollard and his wife asylum, and Pollard was subsequently apprehended by the FBI. At the time, Israel publicly denied any connection to Pollard.

There were press reports at the time of the Camp David 2000 Summit that Clinton had offered to pardon and release Pollard as an inducement to then-Prime minister Ehud Barak to enter into an agreement with the Palestinians, but nothing ever came of it. There were also rumors that Pollard was among the many whom Clinton considered for Presidential pardon on his last day in office, January 20,2001.

The latest Israeli request for Pollard’s release made in new York on September 14, 2005 was again declined by President Bush. A request on Pollard’s behalf that he be designated a Prisoner of Zion was rejected by the High Court of Justice of Israel on January 16, 2006. Another appeal for intervention on Pollard’s behalf was rejected by the High Court on June 8, 2006.

Pollard & Israel’s spying has caused the deaths of many Americans! This zionist monster loyalty was not to America, but to a foreign country…Israel. He needs to pay for his damn spying crimes and the deaths of our fellow Americans; He belongs in prison till he rots. This is only one of many spying affairs by Israel on the U.S.

You can watch “Spy Jonathan Pollard” caught on tape. Surveillance video from 1985 shows American stealing secrets for Israel.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15222134/

Report this

By weather, July 3, 2007 at 3:07 pm Link to this comment

Free us from Israel please!

This isnt a relationship at all, it’s a toxic bribe.

Report this

By cyrena, July 3, 2007 at 2:57 pm Link to this comment

#83210 by Sepharad on 7/02 at 2:18 pm

Well Sepharad, I can’t buy all of your arguments, but I can in fact believe some of them, including this:

2)Israel did NOT encourage Bush the Younger to invade Iraq. Sharon told Bush it was a bad idea that would create chaos in the region, and futhermore their own intelligence suggested that Saddam’s WMDs had long since been moved into Syria. Beyond private persuasion, Sharon felt it impolitic to publicly oppose an important ally.

************************
I’m sure that bush the kid didn’t need the least bit of encouragement from Sharon or anyone else, to invade and destroy Iraq, (though I’m sure it was never in the plan to destroy it quite this much, since we were supposed to be “liberators”, which basically meant that we went there to “liberate” their oil, and that hasn’t worked out as yet). Still, it makes sense to me that Sharon may have told him exactly that, at least at the time. Because of course, the invasion and occupation did exactly what Sharon warned, but then so did everybody else, including most foreign policy experts right here.

None of that mattered, because the invasion of Iraq had been on the agenda for long before this government even took possession of the white house. It had indeed been on the drawing board for years, while they tried to pressure Clinton to do the same thing, while he was in office.

The “moral” or the humanitarian reason for attacking and occupying Iraq only came to the revolving explanation after so many others had collapsed. If indeed this gang had been interested in the human disaster of Saddams attacks on the Kurds, they wouldn’t have chosen to turn the other way after they GAVE him the stuff to use on them in the first place. All that biological stuff.

It’s also been overwhelmingly documented that Saddam never attempted to re-build his nuclear program after the first Gulf War. There was no way he could. He’d lost a long war with Iran, then Kuwait, (after we took over)and he was bankrupt, and broken. In short, Saddam did NOT have any WMD’s, and that has been proven over and over again, and there’s been no indication from the expert watchdogs at the IAEA, that anything was ever “moved to Syria”. So, that part I don’t buy.

The “moral” reason wasn’t added until the WMD didn’t show up, and until the alleged connection between Saddam and al-Qaeda was shown to be impossible. Still, the bush team here continues to make those false claims about the created “al-Qaeda link” and he even said as recently as two weeks ago, that we “had to go into Iraq, because Saddam refused to allow inspections and disarm.” That too, is a blatant lie, because Saddam HAD in fact submitted to inspections, and made all appropriate declarations, and it all checked out with the team for the UN’s IAEA…as early as November, 2002, and they were just finishing up, with report already prepared, when bush told them to get out, because we were about to hit.

Since this was in fact a major component of this agenda from the beginning, I’m certainly willing to believe that Sharon had warned against it, for whatever the reasons.

Report this
GodSend's avatar

By GodSend, July 3, 2007 at 2:37 pm Link to this comment

Here’s another dose of reality:

http://www.ziopedia.org

Also, Michael Rivero’s ‘What Really Happened’ and
Rixon Stewart’s ‘TheTruthSeeker’. And there is Chris Bollyn’s website. Perhaps you prefer Eric Hufschmid’s - or Henry Makow’s (PhD). I could go on and on with ‘interesting’ (and revealing) websites! wink Don’t forget Paul Levy’s - Awaken in the Dream. Some of these are published by Jews. smile

Did I mention Texe Marrs and David J. Meyer? (LastTrumpetMinistries) Worth a Look!

I would add Edger J. Steele - but he’s an Anti-Semite!

Report this

By ken bubb, July 3, 2007 at 2:25 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Mr. Hedges:
Please begin a sign-up sheet: Declaration of Indepence from Israel.  When the number gets into the millions, we finally will have a voice that just might be heard.

Report this

By ender, July 3, 2007 at 2:25 pm Link to this comment

I don’t see Chris Hedges or this article as being the least bit anti semitic, or anti Jewish.  Israel has a fundamentalist right wing that has performed less than admirably.  The US has one in office right now.

Its just not the US’s responsibility to fund their little experiment, or owe them any loyalty.  If you do, you have some other agenda than the interested of the US.

I think Israel can survive quite fine or their own.  With more than 200 nuclear warheads at their disposal, they are more than capable of defending themselves.

But they do not provide $20billion a year in benifits to the US, and if its your problem, your in the wrong country.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, July 3, 2007 at 2:19 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Godsend.
Are you by any chance a member of the same church as Mel Gibson? Or are you one of the “Christian Knights of the Ku Klux Klan”? 

Are you SO blind that you refuse to recognize that Bush sees Prince Bandar of Saudi Arabia as his BROTHER (nick-named “Bandar Bush”) because the Bushes are completely in the pocket of the Saudis?

Can you PLEASE explain how Bush could be completely under the control of the Israelis and the Saudis AT THE SAME TIME?

Or do you believe that Jews are sent by Satan and have demonic supernatural powers?

Report this

By samuel burke, July 3, 2007 at 2:08 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

thank you mr hedges…....there seems to be a anti israel revolution in great britain…..maybe the palestinians plight will finally be brought to an end…..america needs to follow suit
http://www.jewishcomment.com/cgibin/news.cgi?id=11&command=shownews&newsid=943

Not the Nicest Union Meeting
Last uploaded : Monday 2nd Jul 2007 at 23:32
Contributed by : Carol Gould

There is now a disturbing spectrum of trade union boycotts of Israel proliferating across Great Britain. Never have I known the small ( 260,000) Jewish community of the UK to be in such crisis and so besieged. Impassioned journalism by Howard Jacobson, the Chief Rabbi Sir Jonathan Sacks and Melanie Phillips, embellished with the expressions ’Jew-hatred’ and ‘witch hunt’ reflect the rising anguish in both secular and religious Anglo-Jewry.

I am in the unique position of being amongst a tiny handful of British-based Jewish-American members of one of the institutions demanding a boycott, the National Union of Journalists. It is perhaps because I can bear witness to the abject hatred recently displayed towards me at a recent NUJ meeting that I am best suited to explain and chronicle the British boycott saga for an American readership.

Report this
GodSend's avatar

By GodSend, July 3, 2007 at 2:06 pm Link to this comment

lilmamzer:

My website receives around 2 million hits/year and has been in existence for 10+ years. It is seen every day/month by people from over 80 countries, including Israel. It is updated regularly - the latest update is about that Zionist Liar Libby getting his ‘Get Out Of Jail Free’ card from your fellow Zionist-lover Bush. The world can SEE what I have to say! smile

Isn’t the WWW wonderful!?

“You shall know the Truth and the Truth will set you free.”

Report this

By lilmamzer, July 3, 2007 at 1:55 pm Link to this comment

#83578 by GodSend:

Have a look at Neturei Karta and ‘Jews Against Zionism’ to get an appreciation of the difference between Zionists (Satanists) and true Torah Jews.

Oh, you mean those 12 (or is it 15?) guys dressed up like real Jews but attending Holocaust Denial conferences in Tehran with Ahmadinejad?

Right.

Who are you to tell 16 million Jews around the world who love Israel, support the establishment and prosperity of the Jewsih homeland (Zionism, by the way) and study the Torah what a Jew is or is not?

Go to Israel and tell the 5.25 million Jews they are not Jews but “satanists”.

Thank you Chris Hedges.
“GodSend” is your guy.

Report this

By lilmamzer, July 3, 2007 at 1:49 pm Link to this comment

#83576 by Non Credo:

Are you really this obtuse? The Palestinians can’t vote IN THE ELECTIONS OF THE GOVERNMENT THAT ACTUALLY CONTROLS THE TERRITORY WHERE THEY LIVE: THE GOVERNMENT OF ISRAEL.

Therefore, Israel is not a democracy.

It most certainly is a democracy.

The local Arabs you refer to are not citizens of Israel.
Nor will they be, nor should they be.

Those local Arabs have a choice: learn to coexist peacefully with their Jewish neighbors and earn the right to live as citizens in their own (and separate) nation-state, or remain as they are, regressing into a thrid-world morass of self-pity and eternal victimhood.

The choice is theirs. Most people see that and sympathy for the “plight” of these local Arabs is dwindling, even in the 22 existing independent Arab nation-states.

Report this
GodSend's avatar

By GodSend, July 3, 2007 at 1:48 pm Link to this comment

lilmamzer:

No, it’s folks like you (Zionist-lovers) who attracted me to post here!

Your Anti-Semitism label will not stick. Anti-Zionism? - by all means! Anti-Israel and Anti-Israel Lobby - by all means!

Have a look at Neturei Karta and ‘Jews Against Zionism’ to get an appreciation of the difference between Zionists (Satanists) and true Torah Jews.

Report this

Page 4 of 5 pages « First  <  2 3 4 5 >

 
Right 1, Site wide - BlogAds Premium
 
Right 2, Site wide - Blogads
 
Join the Liberal Blog Advertising Network
 
 
 
Right Skyscraper, Site Wide
 
Join the Liberal Blog Advertising Network
 

A Progressive Journal of News and Opinion   Publisher, Zuade Kaufman   Editor, Robert Scheer
© 2014 Truthdig, LLC. All rights reserved.

Like Truthdig on Facebook