#82313 by cyrena on 6/29 at 4:03 am

Yes it does.  Ah, computers, what a trip.  It wasn’t my comment I worried about, but Tony Wicher’s, I didn’t want him banned.  It must have been my cut and paste.  You are a good one, your comments are very kind and considered, thanks for your concern.

Ok Verne….we wouldn’t have reported it. Stuff happens in the keyboard world. Besides, it was nothing offensive.

No no no, something happened…I have no idea…do NOT report this comment!!!

#82183 by Tony Wicher on 6/28 at 12:38 pm
(122 comments total)

Nevertheless, Lugar is a solid Republican moderate and when he caves it means Republican support for the war and for the Bush administration is caving, and the Democrats will be able to cut off funding for the war and impeach Cheney followed by Bush.

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As one not given to prayer…I pray you are correct!

This is a good piece, and Joe certainly calls it from the reality of our recent history. IOW, this is all a political reaction by the politicians, and DennisD has it on the mark…it’s the 2008 Election that has brought forth this “change of heart”.

And, while I haven’t had a chance to read the paper presented by the scholars from the Brookins Institute, it’s important that Joe has mentioned that Brookins IS in fact a Centrist-supporting ideology of the status quo. And we should remember that the ISG Report itself, holds to the basic philosophy, that Lugar repeats here, (but is basically the foundation of the report itself):

•  “Persisting indefinitely with the surge strategy will delay policy adjustments that have a better chance of protecting our vital interests over the long term.”

The “vital interests” (AMERICA’S “vital interests”) are also at the foundation of the ISG,  and so when we hear this, we are obliged to confront the proverbial question again, of just exactly what “”America’s’ ‘vital interests’” are in Iraq, or the greater Middle East. For instance, how did AMERICA’S oil get to be under the soil of Iraq?

So, with any of this we have to first challenge the whole reason for being there to begin with. And, that would be the hidden/shadow agenda, of securing those “vital interests” for the long term success of the multinational energy/oil corporations, which have little or nothing to do with the “vital interests” of Americans at-large. If anything, the entire adventure of America in Iraq has crushed the interests of Americans-at-large, because we’ve expended so much blood and treasure to pursue these self-proclaimed “vital interests”, by sending both public and private mercenaries to pursue and secure those “vital interests”.

In reality, neither the US or the British, or any other member of the “coalition of the willing”, has any legitimate claim to “vital interests” in Iraq or anywhere else. Yet, that’s what all of the so-called “benchmarks” and other stuff of the ISG are predicated upon….. How to privatize Iraq’s oil. So, when we hear our politicians claim that they have these “requirements of the Iraqis,” such as distribution of the oil revenues, and a requirement that they “work-out” some agreements on regional autonomy,  what is really meant, is that they want the Iraqis to sign that Hydrocarbon Draft Law, (that was written by the Cheney Corp) and that while the Cheney Corp has certainly PREFERED to establish a puppet central government in Baghdad, in order to accomplish this, it hasn’t worked out. So now, the idea is to give more consideration to breaking the nation up more completely, which would be more work for the Robber Barons, because it would mean having to negotiate with individual regions, provinces, municipalities, etc, etc., for the theft of the oil.

So, this latest “escalation/surge” was supposed to give the designated puppet government time to bring the rest of the population “on board” with the theft, and that hasn’t happened, and it’s not going to. Each and every one of the former and current staff of political Robber Barons, from Rumsfeld, to cheney, to Gates, to Rice, back to cheney, to the Zal…guy that used to be the US Ambassador, (and another signatory to the PNAC) to the new Ambassador, (Ryan Cochran?) to the current Admiral Falcon, and back to Gates, and then Cheney again….have ALL made the rounds in the past few months since the “surge” or the “benchmark program” became the latest operation. And, they’ve all gone with the same M.O. and purpose in mind…to force the handover of the Nations oil, to US, however it has to happen. To that end, even the so-called “liberal Dems” are now proposing a “bipartisan bill” in conjunction with some of the slime of the Republicans, (Brownback and Kay Bailey Hutchison of ALL people) on how to DIVIDE UP IRAQ.

Need I say more?

Re #82200 by scurvybro on 6/28 at 1:51 pm

Your scepticism is justified, of course. I’m hoping that the Democrats haven’t forgotton the Clinton impeachment. They may be wusses, but somewhere in the backs of their minds they want revenge. You might think Hillary, even, would have such feelings. Let’s see what happens by September.

I’ll believe it when I see it. That is, I’ll believe that these Republican “centrists” have reversed their support for Bush and his war when they vote to cut off funding.

Pardon my skepticism, but I’ve heard these words of doubt too often in the past from other Republicans, such as Chuck Hagel, Olympia Snow and Susan Collins. When it comes down to actually DOING something that matters, like casting a vote, they dutifully fall in line.

Until these Republicans (and, sadly, way too many Democrats) change their actions, I’ll continue to take their comments with a boulder of salt.

Nevertheless, Lugar is a solid Republican moderate and when he caves it means Republican support for the war and for the Bush administration is caving, and the Democrats will be able to cut off funding for the war and impeach Cheney followed by Bush.

The U.S. blocks a political settlement by refusing to accept the demand of the Iraqi resistance that U.S. troops not be permanently based in Iraq.

The “Centrists” aren’t facing reality. They have finally ran out of rope and are in the process of looking for a way out of the mess they made.

Centrist my ass. Richard Lugey is at best a complicit enabler. It’s the good cop, bad cop game. Similar to the bait and switch game. I think we need a reality show with three judges to determine which political gamer is most successful at pacifying the American public while stomping on its throat.

Gee whiz Richard Loogy is so moderate he only broke my nose and ruptured my spleen. He didn’t reach down my throat and rip out my liver like those less moderate Republicans. I’m voting for him.

I support our troops by demanding that they be returned home to their families, not sacrificed needlessly for the greed of the elite. Not to mention the fact that over 600,000 iraqis have died since this slaughter began, most of them innocent women and children. What a barbaric nation we have become.

“Centrist” politicians are perhaps the worst of the breed, as they do nothing but react to the popular opinion of the time and modify their views to fit.

brandon
http://www.actforyourself.org

Washington’s self-styled centrists, as usual, are trailing far behind public opinion…”

“When nobody in Congress stepped up to demand implementation of the ISG report, the silence permitted President Bush and Vice President Cheney to escalate the war.”

We have been loosing (as in killed) about .6 soldiers per hour for the last few months.  That equates to about 100 soldiers per month…plus or minus.  Maybe we need to remind our “leaders”; congresspersons that, as they speak…if they speak for say 2 hours, 1.2 U.S. soldiers die AS THEY SPEAK!!!!  Sorry for the caps but yes I’m yelling!!!!

Somehow this has to be brought down to a level anyone can understand and it must be realized that the clock of death is ticking…every minute of every day.  This does not even include the Iraqi’s…factor that in and it’s beyond comprehension.

Support the troops?  My God …when death is this certain…how would you judge support for the troops…I would say get them the hell out!

How do our politicians look now?  They debate and people die!!!