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Cheney the Survivor

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Posted on Jun 26, 2007

By Eugene Robinson

WASHINGTON—I’m often asked why, given my lower-than-low opinion of this administration, I don’t at least raise the subject of whether George W. Bush should be impeached. I answer with three scary words that tend to end the discussion: President Dick Cheney.

    Then again, Cheney would probably think of moving into the Oval Office as a demotion. The president, at least, has some accountability to public opinion—if he’s going to defy it, he has to offer some explanation. The president has to hold an occasional news conference, tolerate meetings with his opponents on Capitol Hill and endure lectures from world leaders who question his policies. Cheney can just blow it all off.

    Cheney will be remembered not just as the first sitting vice president since Aaron Burr to shoot someone, but also as the first vice president in history clever and determined enough to turn what is usually a ceremonial office into a center of vast independent power.

    It’s ironic that the latest outrage from Cheney is his claim to be exempt from a presidential order concerning the handling of classified documents because his office is not actually, or at least not exclusively, a part of the executive branch. Cheney, you see, has spent the past six years pushing the envelope of executive authority, asserting for Bush and himself the right to do pretty much any damn thing they want.

    Didn’t Cheney claim executive privilege as his reason for keeping secret the process he followed in developing the administration’s energy policy, including the names of the people with whom he met?

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    The flap over secret documents is a mere bagatelle, however, compared with the way Cheney has usurped, concentrated and wielded power. A remarkable series of stories in The Washington Post about Cheney’s unprecedented role began Sunday with the amazing tale of how, two months after the Sept. 11 attacks, Cheney got Bush to sign an order denying foreign terrorism suspects access to any court of law, military or civilian.

    Cheney presented Bush with the order, which had been written “in strict secrecy” by Cheney’s lawyer, as the two had lunch. Within the hour, the document had been made official with Bush’s signature—and neither Secretary of State Colin Powell nor National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice had been informed.

    Rice was “incensed,” according to the Post, while Powell didn’t learn of the order—which had enormous implications for U.S. foreign policy—until he heard it reported that evening on CNN. His response: “What the hell just happened?”

    What happened was that Cheney had taken him to school.

    Cheney went on to oversee the development of the shameful philosophical and legal framework the administration has used to justify submitting “war on terror” detainees to what Cheney called “robust interrogation”—and what international agreements call torture. Cheney supported a hair-splitting distinction between torture on the one hand and “cruel, inhuman or degrading” treatment on the other.

    I’ve never bought the theory of the Bush-Cheney relationship as Pinocchio-Geppetto—it lets Bush off too easily to imagine that Cheney pulls all the strings. But it’s clear that Cheney is the toughest, smartest infighter in the administration, and that his toughness and smarts have been employed partly in service of an independent agenda. Cheney came into office believing that the presidency—and, by extension, the vice presidency—had been deflated, and he set out to puff them back up again.

    Students of public administration should have to take a course called “Cheney.” How he has amassed and employed his power offers a case study in how government really works—and how a skillful operator can make a bureaucracy dance. Take Cheney’s penchant for secrecy, which seems to border on the maniacal. His office stamps “SECRET” on routine documents, including talking points for officials to use with reporters. He keeps papers pertaining to everyday business in huge Mosler safes. Is this loopy? No, he’s just putting into practice the dictum that information is power. Sunshine is for losers.

    This vice president whose Secret Service code name is “Angler” really does know all the angles. And above all, he knows how to survive. His one-time mentor Donald Rumsfeld is gone, his one-time top aide “Scooter” Libby is on his way to jail, yet Cheney—defiantly, disastrously, unbelievably—remains. It will take years to uncover and undo all the damage he has wrought. 

    Eugene Robinson’s e-mail address is eugenerobinson(at symbol)washpost.com.   

    © 2007, Washington Post Writers Group


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By Skruff, July 2, 2007 at 5:16 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

83235 by cyrena on 7/02 at 3:34 pm

No silence from me. I stand in apology and corrected. You have NOT directed any snipes at me, nor have I found anything personally objective.

So, my own post (in response to Ernest’s) was out of line in even mentioning you. However, his “claims” on you and your own arguments, were in fact a perfect description of some OTHER posters that have in fact been wasting our time. (or, at least mine, if only because I allowed it.)

Please accept my apologies.

Absolutely… I’m on the other page with you, and I am aware of whom you speak.  I have difficulty reading him with an open mind.  so I’ve stopped.

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By cyrena, July 2, 2007 at 4:34 pm Link to this comment

#83089 by Skruff on 7/02 at 5:26 am

Skruff,

No silence from me. I stand in apology and corrected. You have NOT directed any snipes at me, nor have I found anything personally objective.

So, my own post (in response to Ernest’s) was out of line in even mentioning you. However, his “claims” on you and your own arguments, were in fact a perfect description of some OTHER posters that have in fact been wasting our time. (or, at least mine, if only because I allowed it.)

Please accept my apologies.

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By Skruff, July 2, 2007 at 6:26 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

83068 by cyrena on 7/02 at 12:04 am

“***“When someone, like myself, finally grows tired of his silly game and calls him out by pointing to the absurdity of the remark, Skruff resorts to projecting his own innermost feelings as being the motivation behind the retort by accusing those who challenge his absurdities as simply engaging in a “win at all costs nastiness”—never stopping to realize that it is his petty snipes”

I have challenged Ardee, and Ernest Canning to repost one of my posts where I have been less than civil to them.  No response. Now I shall ask you when I have “sniped” at you.  I expect a similar silence.

Ardee wants to “win” me over. Ernest Canning feels I’m passive agressive.  I have no such thoughts about either of them.  I’m not so sure my point of view is the Holy grail of truth, but I am sure of my positions relative to me.

...and I have NEVER “projected my innermost feelings” on this website or any other. 

The “nastiness” I speak of is Mr. Cannings, and Ardee’s remarks about me personally.  I suggest that no one who meets only here knows another poster well enough to be personally nasty. 

So line up and take your personal shots (if you wish) then claim (without any backing) that I do the same to you.

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By ardee, July 2, 2007 at 5:58 am Link to this comment

Oh MY Goodness:

#82905 by Skruff on 7/01 at 8:44 am


You still fail to understand that you are talking about yourself…..what a shame.

None so blind as those who will not see.

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By cyrena, July 2, 2007 at 1:04 am Link to this comment

#82919 by Ernest Canning on 7/01 at 9:36 am

Ernest, Ardee, reading this that you wrote was like a “de ja vue” because after the attacks I’ve had today, (from morons)Skruff is pretty mild. He might just have bad days some times. Still, when you wrote this, it was like…this is exactly what the tune has become on the thread with End-Time Politics and Religion…or whatever the one was with the debate between Chris Hedges and Sam Harris.


***“When someone, like myself, finally grows tired of his silly game and calls him out by pointing to the absurdity of the remark, Skruff resorts to projecting his own innermost feelings as being the motivation behind the retort by accusing those who challenge his absurdities as simply engaging in a “win at all costs nastiness”—never stopping to realize that it is his petty snipes that are the source of degeneration of what should otherwise be an intellectually stimulating discourse between individuals who, though they do not always agree, have much to gain from the interaction if they show the other the respect that should be afforded all who seek to expand their minds through interactive dialogue.”***

It was almost exactly what I’d written to these same morons, on that thread, that have somehow decided that they’ll yank my chain, with bullshit. More than anything, I was annoyed with myself for even wasting time responding the second or third time, because it’s obvious that they aren’t responding to any of what I’m saying, because in reality, it’s only to harrass me.

So now, I’ve got Lefty, Timmy, Bfskinnerpunk, (or PF Flyers punk)and then some other space goon named wavelength. I swear, I think they’re stalking me. smile

(don’t those names sound a little bit like slapstick comedy? I dunno…I’m not taking any chances in laughing them off. So, I’ll have to keep my bat handy.


But, you both are right. I agree with your assessment on getting folks to put aside their minor differences, so that they can fullfill some of the larger common goals. That’s the major problem that the Civil Rights Movement encountered. Kind of a divergence of additional interests, which pretty much broke up the power of the common causes. It was a boon to many black folks at the time, at least when I was entering the work force, but over the years, we somehow left too many people behind. It’s never enough just to help “yourself” up. Once there, even part of the way, we have to turn around and lend the hand to the others. That didn’t happen.

So now, here we ALL are, in basically the same boat, and it’s taking on water too damn fast.

I’ll send out an SOS if the popscicle stand gang keeps bugging me.

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By ardee, July 1, 2007 at 5:14 pm Link to this comment

That two of those posters for whom I have the highest respect chose to flatter me with a response made my day. I would push the envelope a bit further, if I may.

In order to halt a creeping (or rather galloping) destruction of those very ideals which made this nation contain the seeds for something very special we must learn how to reach out. As long as we live in a democratic society wherein the vote determines the quality of our leadership (though the honesty of the vote itself has come under suspicion) we who seek change must seek alliances.

If we note the way the right has worked diligently for decades to obtain the power necesary to enforce its ideology upon the majority, and the right is certainly far, far from such, being always a small subset of our culture we should learn something. The right, not unlike the left, is comprised of various factions, some with religious agendas, some with economic ones, all with much individual differences yet all agreed to bury those differences to work for power and a greater voice in the agendas of our government.

The left however has never agreed to put aside its differences in order to speak with a unified and thus more powerful voice. While the right quietly bought up the media, made peace with the fanatics among them, converting that fanaticism into tireless political action, the middle was consumed with apathy and indifference and the left, the activisist who should have been informing and leading the push back towards the center instead bickered among themselves over rather trivial differences in iedeology.

I would use as an example the massive demonstrations opposing the looming invasion of Iraq. The group , at least here on the left coast,who got the permits, organised the speakers, planned the routes and, in general, did the dirty work, and did it rather well indeed, was ANSWER. Instead of appreciating that work, instead of applauding the way they agreed to speakers from all sides (Left Sides of course) of the issues as long as those speakers never used the forum to criticise ANSWER itself, there was widespread sniping about a Marxist group being in charge, not that this work had to be done, not that noone else stepped up to do it, just that they were socialists,hmmpph. Groups actually refused to participate because of some silly political purity issues. The demonstrations attracted millions of folks world wide and should have led to permanent coalitions working to move our nation away from creeping fascism, like the antiwar, anti Viet Nam coalitions born around those massive outpourings, yet they did not. One wonders if we will continue to argue and insult while our ship of state sinks slowly beneath the waves of international corporate rule?

If we cannot meet and find common ground with one like Skruff, how can we hope to achieve much of anything? I say that debate with Skruff is problematic at least, but I say that we must share in that problem because we need the Skruffs if we hope to achieve our goals. I must add that my words certainly do not echo my deeds as I have difficulty overcoming intellectual dishonesty also, but find a way we must…...

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By Tony Wicher, July 1, 2007 at 2:48 pm Link to this comment

I hope the Cheney impeachment rally will be an outpouring of love, of the best and truest self of this country which has been suppressed for forty years and more, since the Kennedy Assassination, the Vietnam War, and the progressive victory of corporate fascism and imperialism over democracy. Other countries have taken up where we faltered, and have moved ahead as leaders in democracy and civilization. This long national nightmare can end. We can really promote peace and democracy abroad. We can get the military-industrial complex off our backs and have plenty of money for peaceful projects both domestic and foreign. We can get rid of the insurance companies and have universal medical care as they do in all other advanced countries.

How about this: hang an effigy of Cheney from a flag pole and set it on fire; say the pledge of allegience to the flag while watching it burn. Then everybody dance around, pass the weed and have a good time!

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By cann4ing, July 1, 2007 at 10:36 am Link to this comment

ardee & cyrena:  I sincerely appreciate both the kind words and the thoughtfulness that have gone into both of your posts throughout the site known as “Truth”-dig.

Skruff appears to be a rather complex individual.  He obviously possesses a superior intellect and a working knowledge of history.  But there seems also to be a passive aggressive, know-it-all, nature within his personality.

If you track my posts, as well as those of some of the other intellectuals who seek to engage in that wonderful democratic process known as interactive communication, you will find him often searching for some tiny remark he can attempt to pick apart, as if the idea of intellectual interaction were a game of one-upsmanship.  The process leads to his eventually posting a truly absurd remark, such as “Ghandi was an abject failure” or “all truth is emphemeral”—positions which I doubt he sincerely believes but which he asserts to simply get a rise out of his target.  In the “Ghandi was an abject failure” case, Skruff was responding a prior posting by ardee which challenged the efficacy of violence.

When someone, like myself, finally grows tired of his silly game and calls him out by pointing to the absurdity of the remark, Skruff resorts to projecting his own innermost feelings as being the motivation behind the retort by accusing those who challenge his absurdities as simply engaging in a “win at all costs nastiness”—never stopping to realize that it is his petty snipes that are the source of degeneration of what should otherwise be an intellectually stimulating discourse between individuals who, though they do not always agree, have much to gain from the interaction if they show the other the respect that should be afforded all who seek to expand their minds through interactive dialogue. 

And, no, ardee, I did not think your post was too long.

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By Skruff, July 1, 2007 at 9:44 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

What is truely amazing about the (self identified) liberal establishment is the duplicity of their message. 

Generic example;

“Here I am a person of principle having examined all the issues from all sides I find my views to be not only totally correct, but also find that those disagreeing are (pick your own negative adjective)....and while we’re at it, I really resent all these personal attacks (unspecified) by the low-life cretins who inhabit this web site and have the temerity to disagree with my point of view.”

Let me say, that every issue has two sides.  This is not to say that the sun revolves around the earth, but the color of the twilight, quality of life issues, or the idea that the weather is good or bad are subjective concepts. Unfortunately some of the “perfect world” ideas are also dubious . 
It is my belief that people come from and are predators. (check out those canine teeth) that peaceful solutions often do not (by themselves) bring change. That a good fight has purpose, and that a man (or woman)must live by what THEY believe to be “the truth”.  Some people find this in religion, some in drag racing, and some in an on-going attempt to seek a higher plain for self and greater family.

I have made a choice to respond non-personally to comments which must be addressed, but where respect is lacking.

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By cyrena, July 1, 2007 at 9:38 am Link to this comment

#82883 by ardee on 7/01 at 6:59 am

Ardee….great post. Very inspiring. I hope it’s widely read.

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By ardee, July 1, 2007 at 7:59 am Link to this comment

The reason I remain at this site is encapsulated in the dialogues of Earnest Canning; the reasons I consider leaving are fully exposed in the replies of Skruff.

I would hasten to interject that Skruff is far from the least intelligent or uninformed of the motley crew that infest this and most other forums on line. Since the Rovian technique of smear the messenger and ignore the message has come into fashion it has bled into all political discourse.

When Skruff notes:
I am disappointed by the narrowness of arguments here, and disenchanted with the “win at all costs” nastiness.

He is absolutely correct but he fails to include the most important ingredient in that argument, namely ;that he himself falls prey to the exact same strategies. Most folks here, with a few wonderful exceptions, argue from their own narrow perspective, immediately fall to sarcasm and even invective when their belief system is challenged instead of engaging in the most useful tool available, constant evaluation of their position in the face of new input. A rare few do such as this, and it is those folks who are worth the effort.

Long ago I decided that I had two choices when engaging in internet political dialogues; I could simply ignore those who proved worthless, and Ive already done so with the worst of the lot here, and I could return insult with insult, invective and sarcasm in return for the same. I do that with those who otherwise display enough literacy in their posts to make me wonder why they do not take the next step and discuss and think about the points of others.

Dos this make my input as problematic as those who fall prey to the intellectually lazy debating techniques of Karl Rove? Sure I suppose it does.

One wonders what is one to do with someone who calls Ghandi’s life a failure? I am certain that Skruff knows this , in his heart, to be an impossibly ridiculous stance and only posted because of a frustration that noone is persuaded by that which “he knows” to be fact. The real fact is that Ghandi will be remembered as long as Dr. King, Jesus and as long as peace is valued

This post, become too lengthy by far, is posted because unless we overcome this communications problem, this reluctance to come together as the right has done, then we we always be a struggling minority, losing to the powerful forces of ideological purity and vast wealth.

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By Skruff, July 1, 2007 at 6:05 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Ernest Canning on 6/30 at 10:52 pm

“More scruffy thinking.” 

The ubiquitous attempt to belittle. What happened to the liberal tolerance for diversity? Does it not extend to viewpoints?


“The Panthers’ successes occurred when they engaged in peaceful efforts to assist people of color within their own community.  When they resorted to violence, they were decimated; hauled off to prison.  In case you haven’t notice, there are no more Panthers.”

In case you haven’t noticed, there is no more Martin Luther King.  Footprints of both Panthers and King remain.

“Malcolm X was an intellectual giant who, by the end of his too short life, was coming around to the power of non-violent resistance.”

You have some documentation of that? 

I love those arguments because they prove what I have always believed there is no Absolute truth, only the world viewed through the different experience of those of us who observe.

“The Watts riots accomplished little beyond the destruction of much of the community.”

Here is the point where I must respect your opinion. It’s still not my opinion, but your “view” is worthy of respect.

“oh what is that word you are so fond of, ‘ephemeral.’”

I’m not particularly fond of ‘ephemeral’ which I used once. I am much fonder of ‘the’ which I use quite often.

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By cyrena, July 1, 2007 at 1:06 am Link to this comment

#82842 by Ernest Canning on 6/30 at 10:52 pm

Ernest, you are a fountain of wisdom. ie your comment:

..... The Panthers’ successes occurred when they engaged in peaceful efforts to assist people of color within their own community.  When they resorted to violence, they were decimated; hauled off to prison.  In case you haven’t notice, there are no more Panthers.

Malcolm X was an intellectual giant who, by the end of his too short life, was coming around to the power of non-violent resistance.

The Watts riots accomplished little beyond the destruction of much of the community.  Whatever “pressure” was exerted was, oh what is that word you are so fond of, “ephemeral.”.....

Couldn’t have said it better myself. Maybe not even as well. The thing that’s so very sad, (but maybe not surprising) is that so many reasonably intelligent people fail to “get” this stuff. Some 35 or 40 years later, people whom have grown up in the footprints of movements like the Panters, don’t even have a clue to their original mission,(providing social services to the communities that were largely ignored by the “state”)and obtaining some measures of social-economic fairness and equality. 

Interstingly enough, Angela Davis spoke at an event here in my own community, about a year or so ago. It was a full audience. And, when a member of the audience brought this up, (about the Panther original mission)she was surprised that it wasn’t already well known. She wryly commented that “Humm, that’s why we can’t “assume” anything.”

And, she would be correct. Folks don’t know, and I can only hope that in pointing these things out from time to time, and making the necessary comparisons, the bigger picture might become clearer for them.

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By cann4ing, June 30, 2007 at 11:52 pm Link to this comment

More scruffy thinking.  The Panthers’ successes occurred when they engaged in peaceful efforts to assist people of color within their own community.  When they resorted to violence, they were decimated; hauled off to prison.  In case you haven’t notice, there are no more Panthers.

Malcolm X was an intellectual giant who, by the end of his too short life, was coming around to the power of non-violent resistance.

The Watts riots accomplished little beyond the destruction of much of the community.  Whatever “pressure” was exerted was, oh what is that word you are so fond of, “ephemeral.”

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By cyrena, June 30, 2007 at 11:10 pm Link to this comment

#82762 by Tony Wicher on 6/30 at 3:03 pm

Here’s the event I’m going to:

4th of JULY IMPEACHMENT PICNIC

Wednesday, July 4th - Noon to 3:00 PM

La Cienega Park
8400 Gregory Way
Beverly Hills 90211
Near Olympic & La Cienega

OK Tony, thanks for this location information. I’ll see you there, and I’m bringing my tribe with me.

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By Skruff, June 30, 2007 at 5:23 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Ernest Canning on 6/30 at 3:28 pm says:


“If you want a comparative analysis, consider the ineffectual violence of the Weather Underground.  What did “they” accomplish besides getting a few innocents killed?”


I mention the Panthers, the Watts riots, and Malcolm X, and you bring up “the weather underground.  ,

I am beginning to believe we live on different planets.

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By cann4ing, June 30, 2007 at 4:28 pm Link to this comment

Tony, I appreciate the reference to the Kucinich flyers.  I’ve printed my own set and plan to hand them out in Thousand Oaks tonight when I go to see Sicko!

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By cann4ing, June 30, 2007 at 4:26 pm Link to this comment

Ghandi an abject failure?  How absurd.  His peaceful, non-violent resistence liberated India from British imperialism.  That his success in life was not followed by success after his death in uniting Hindu, Muslim and Sikh is tragic but a far cry from “abject failure.”

Ghandi’s philosphy provided the underpinning and inspiration for Martin Luther King and the American civil rights movement.  King himself acknowledged that.

If you want a comparative analysis, consider the ineffectual violence of the Weather Underground.  What did “they” accomplish besides getting a few innocents killed?

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By Tony Wicher, June 30, 2007 at 4:03 pm Link to this comment

I would like to add that for those of you who celebrate the glorious Fourth, I suggest you do so at your local “Impeach Cheney” rally. They are going on all over the country. There could be no more meaningful way to spend your Fourth. Also, watch Sicko this weekend. Mickael Moore endorses only Dennis Kucinich’s health plan. Dennis suggests handouts to people coming out of the theatre that make this point.

Here’s the event I’m going to:

4th of JULY IMPEACHMENT PICNIC

Wednesday, July 4th - Noon to 3:00 PM

La Cienega Park
8400 Gregory Way
Beverly Hills 90211
Near Olympic & La Cienega

Friends and Impeachment Activists:

Please come join and be a part of a nationwide movement to Impeach Bush & Cheney and to uphold Americans’ Constitutional Rights:

To Celebrate the Inauguration of the Los Angeles Impeachment Center.


Congresswoman Maxine Waters is a confirmed speaker for both the inauguration ceremony and for the picnic from 12 to 3 pm.  There will be music at various times at the picnic including music and entertainment from Eva James (songs around 1pm), musician Steven Fine,and special guest Marcy Vaj and the Regime-Change Band.

What and Whom: Congresswoman Maxine Waters to speak at 11 am at a 30 minute Ceremonial Inauguration for the Peace Center (Maxine Waters to speak) ; Picnic from 12pm - 3pm at La Cienega Park (Olympic & La Cienega). Confirmed speakers who will attend and speak at Impeachment Center July 4th Picnic include: Maxine Waters, Paul Koretz, Byron De Lear, Anthony St. Martin, Larry Everest, Shakeel Syed (Executive Director of the Islamic Shura Council of Southern California), and Jackie Goldberg.

Why: To Urge Los Angeles City Council, Santa Monica City Council and CA State Congressional and Assembly Representatives to Pass a Resolution Calling for the Impeachment of President Bush and Vice-President Cheney

When: Wednesday, July 4th, 11 a.m. to 3 p.m.

Where: 8124 W. Third Street (at the “Peace Center” located by Crescent Heights & 3rd Street) ; 11 am inauguration will be immediately followed by picnic at nearby La Cienega Park from 12-3 pm.

Leaders of the Westside Greens, the Progressive Democrats of Los Angeles, the Los Angeles Greens, and the Santa Monica Democratic Club will officially inaugurate the Los Angeles Impeachment Center to be followed by speakers who will address strategies and ideas relating to the impeachment of George W. Bush and Richard B. Cheney. The Impeachment Center will coordinate phone banking, letter writing, meeting sessions and civil disobedience actions relating to Impeachment.  It will provide Impeachment related resources available for distribution. Lawn signs, bumper stickers and other literature will be made available to all who attend. Volunteers will discuss tactics relating the Impeachment of both Bush & Cheney.

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By Tony Wicher, June 30, 2007 at 3:55 pm Link to this comment

#82657 by Skruff on 6/30 at 5:51 am
“Ghandi, for all his public relations acumen was an abject failure as far as goal accomplishment was concerned.”

Excuse me? Gandhi an abject failure? He may not have succeeded in everything he tried to accomplish, but still, India is today a independent, secular democracy of one billion people and Gandhi deserves more credit for that than any other one man.

What about Nelson Mandela? Not only did he succeed, he managed to do it without getting assassinated. What a man!

In almost every case violence is counter-productive. Jesus is right. If the goal is peace on earth, which all mankind wants, then the means must be peaceful. No matter what the the purported goal may be, no matter how seemingly justified, war, riots, assassinations and all other forms of violence, including hateful speech, add to conflict. The early Sixties were the most progressive generation in our nation’s history, but when that revolution of love became violent, it was defeated and co-opted by the forces of reaction. Only love can change the world.

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By Skruff, June 30, 2007 at 6:51 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

by Ernest Canning on 6/29 at 4:57 pm

“Ardee, I fully concur.  Ghandi and Martin Luther King got it right.

Ghandi, for all his public relations acumen was an abject failure as far as goal accomplishment was concerned.  He wished to unite the people of India under a nationalistic, rather than a religious banner. the partitioning of British India starting in 1947, The emergence of Bangladesh and Pakistan would have saddened Ghandi and made his fight meaningless.

Jesus had a similar fate, and although one can admire these principled people for their costly stand, their goals were not met.

Martin Luther King happens to be one of my (very few) heros. He was aware that he was sacrificing his life for an idea, but Martin’s peace movement was not the only fight for civil rights, and having lived (and marched) through that time, I am unsure that civil rights would have been accomplished by King alone. The Panthers, H Rap Brown, Malcolm X, and the Watts rioters also put extreme pressure on an administration already fighting a war abroad. People in Scarsdale, West Roxbury, Orange County, Shaker Heights, and Saddle Brook were looking with horror at the burning cities near-by and were putting big-time pressure on their representatives to “do something” ....and dispite King’s abhorance of violence, his death caused the worst riots in the US since the Civil (sic) War.

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By Tony Wicher, June 29, 2007 at 9:02 pm Link to this comment

Re #82557 by PatrickHenry on 6/29 at 6:49 pm

I don’t know if Cheney is best described as “stupid” or “incommpetent”. He obviously has great skill as a bureaucrat. Maybe Bush is stupid enough to believe half the crap he says, maybe - but Cheney? I just wonder whether we yet understand his agenda. It is about bloating himself with Halliburton blood money, that’s for sure. But I don’t know if it stops there.

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By PatrickHenry, June 29, 2007 at 7:49 pm Link to this comment

Do not mistake for conspiracy and intrigue what can best be explained by stupidity and incompetence.

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By cann4ing, June 29, 2007 at 6:27 pm Link to this comment

Tony, I think you may have hit on something the rest of us have missed.  Cheney can’t be killed.  He’s a machine, cold and heartless.

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By Tony Wicher, June 29, 2007 at 6:14 pm Link to this comment

Re #82523 by Ernest Canning on 6/29 at 4:57 pm

A friend emailed an article to me today which muses on the question of whether Cheney should be assassinated. I replied that like Dennis Kucinich I oppose all political assassination. The evil that Cheney represents cannot stand the light of day. Exposed in an impeachment hearing, it will shrivel and die, leaving only the husk of what may once have been a human being. Assasinate him, and people will think him human. The husk then dies, but the evil spirit within is only liberated to metastasize. Who knows, there may be even worse things than Cheney who are pulling his strings.

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By Skruff, June 29, 2007 at 6:07 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“Be civil or do not respond.”

I challenge you to point to one post where I have not been civil. 

But I have no need to respond to every post which suggests that there is but one “correct” point of view.

I am disappointed by the narrowness of arguments here, and disenchanted with the “win at all costs” nastiness.

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By cann4ing, June 29, 2007 at 5:57 pm Link to this comment

Ardee, I fully concur.  Ghandi and Martin Luther King got it right.  Those who participate in violence become what they despise.  Those who advocate it, consistently underestimate the power of peaceful, non-violent resistance.  I hope it never comes to the point where all avenues of democratic change have been shuttered, but if that ever occurs, there is a very powerful yet entirely non-violent means to bring the oligarchs to their knees.  It’s called a general strike.

As to Skruff, while there have been times where he has shown potential, there are many occasions in which he seems to delight in taking the positions of a contrarian, such as when he suggested to me that it matters not if it can be shown that the Bushies electronically flipped the vote; that the solid academic presentation by Professor Steven Freeman & Joel Bleifuss in “Was the 2004 Election Stolen: Exit Polls, Election Fraud and the Official Count” documenting a mathematical impossibility in the vast shifts between exit-poll data and the official count all favoring the incumbent President because all that matters is that Bush was sworn in; that history really doesn’t matter because all “truth” is “ephermeral.” 

Any attempt to respond to this assinine and twisted line of reasoning merely produces derision from the erudite “Skruff.”  I’ve decided that it’s best I stop trying to inject reason as a replacement for skruffy thinking.

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By ardee, June 29, 2007 at 5:27 pm Link to this comment

Skruff says:
I disagree. when dealing with an entity which will kill children, innocent civilians, and torture folks to get (questionable) information If you take violent revolt off the table, you will be ignored, until they get around to you.

Now please read the above again before you ask if I’ve read the turner diaries
.....
I say, ..You had to include the last didnt you, demonstrating an immaturity rather than understanding that my reference to that book was to lump that far right wing nutjob in the same category as Tim McVeigh who used the theme of the ‘Diaries’ to blow up the Oklahoma Federal Building, murdering children and other innocents, and to show the ridiculous nature of contemplating an armed insurrection against this nation.

You think any such threats would be taken seriously by our government, really? Just how would you make such a threat, piece together letters from various magazines and send it to Georgie? The real threat to the neoconservative corporatists who have usurped the power of the people is to use our political power and not our weapons. You cant take armed insurrection off the table because no reasonable or sane person believes it to be there in the first place. We either retake the Democratic Party or make a third party strong enough to keep the progressive agenda on the table.

It didnt take an armed revolt to begin the process to bring justice and equality to black Americans (we arent there quite yet), in fact it was the violence of the racists who sped the process, and violence always has a negative effect. Those who preach it retard the cause and probably have watched too damn many John Wayne movies….

Be civil or do not respond.

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By PaulMagillSmith, June 29, 2007 at 3:04 pm Link to this comment

We don’t need a revolt, since a revolt is a revolution that failed. The people (many) have been in the revolt stage for quite some time now.

It is sheer lunacy to consider the possibility of an armed insurrection against this government UNLESS the military supports the effort. Even then what would likely occur would be a an internal war between the US military and the private mercenary troops we currently fund. The key is in the last three words of the last sentence. The revolt can become a revolution if we de-fund the private mercenary army. How many mercenaries are willing to fight for principle rather than profit…none.

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By Skruff, June 29, 2007 at 7:00 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

82053 by ardee on 6/28 at 5:00 am

“Talking about violent overthrow of the government is not the way to win through.”

I disagree. when dealing with an entity which will kill children, innocent civilians, and torture folks to get (questionable) information If you take violent revolt off the table, you will be ignored, until they get around to you.

Now please read the above again before you ask if I’ve read the turner diaries.

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By cyrena, June 28, 2007 at 8:57 pm Link to this comment

Sweet Old Lady,
#82221 by sweetoldlady on 6/28 at 4:55 pm

No need to forgive your ignorance, (because you aren’t) or your status as a non-American, (because you’re probably all the better off). But the answer to your question is…you’re right. And, we actually DO have in this American political structure, other parties besides the Dems and the Repubs. We’ve got Libertarians, and Greens, and we’ve even had the occasional Independent in a few of our parliamentary seats, or as the occasional Governor here and there.  And, we have a provision for the “write-in” candidates on our ballots as well.

So, the legal structure does in fact allow for the type of 2nd Revolution that you suggest. The problem here, is that in a general sense, Americans are simply not as politically or ideologically “connected” as they are in the UK, (or even the EU in general) and because of the total corruption that our Electoral system has become. It is next to impossible, (in the realpolitiks of the American political system) for a candidate or candidates(s) to gain even a foot of recognition, without a ton of money and political influence. As some commentator mentioned somewhere in these reports, it would almost seem that anybody who is actually vying for the job(s,) are probably the least qualified in a real sense. Not always, because we have in fact had good leadership in our history. But as it stands now, this 2nd, (or renewal) Revolution that is so needed, can only come about with a re-awakening of the general populace here, just to get everybody re-indoctrinated to what the whole thing was intended in the first place. A democracy of “we the people”.

I think it’s coming about, albeit slowly, and spaces like this help accomplish that.

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By Nitro, June 28, 2007 at 8:44 pm Link to this comment

Well, I guess I’ve been totally mis-understood again. All I said was if it comes, and I sincerly believe it’s coming, I would fight for my Rights and Liberty’s and the Responsible, Accountable, action of our government.
As I have before.

I most certainly hope and pray ardee, that a peaceful solution to our crisis comes about. Everyone voting for themself?... Sure why not. What ever.

But I think, as many do, that the longer we all sit around venting in cyber-space, ranting and raving about Impeachment and criminal proceedings and etc, we’ll wake up one morning and it will be too late then.

At the current rate… I think it’d be a safe bet to say that in just a little more time, King Bushit will take away our right to protest against the King. Like the Habeas Corpus Right loss, and how many others…

So yee haw and yah rah for the peaceful solutions to manifest, just know that I think the American People are drawing a line in the sand.

To a Better Day…

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By sweetoldlady, June 28, 2007 at 5:55 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Forgive my ignorance as a non-American, but is it possible for an ordinary American citizen to run on an ‘Independant’ ticket as it is in the U.K?
This way, you could bypass both the Democrat and the Republican parties. I have just read the 4th of the Washington Post articles on Dick Cheney, and also the reader’s comments, and they mostly agreed with the ones here. Just imagine if the millions of you all stood as Independant candidates at your next election; there would be your 2nd revolution right there, and all perfectly legal. (Not to mention scaring the hell out of the ‘official’ Democrats and Republicans.)

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By ardee, June 28, 2007 at 6:00 am Link to this comment

#81998 by Nitro on 6/27 at 9:17 pm
(64 comments total)

Didn’t read the “Turner Diary” ardee [81704] and maybe I do need evaluating.

Too long of a list to address the names of those in our history, that were accqused of being off the wall, crazy, rebellious, needing evaluating, that were only proven to be nothing but “True Patriots” my friend.

A polite and considered response, one that causes me to reevaluate my “diagnosis” in fact.

For both Nitro and B

Comparing the situation in 1775 with today is pointless really, one had a small and scattered population with an absentee ruler and very, very long supply lines, the other has an imbedded military with a suspended Posse Comitatus Act, a huge paramilitary police force and a populace unwilling to see violence as a solution. That last is a very good thing.

Revolutions come in all flavors, recourse to violence indicates failure. We certainly need dramatic changes to our political and social systems if we are to survive as the worlds greatest democratic institution.

We have been abandoned by our two political parties in favor of those who writelarge and continuing campaign checks, thus enslaving us all. There are, however, much better ways to work for change than spouting off, in open forum, about a need for a violent overthrow of the government. Some may see a retaking of the Democratic Party as the way, some may not, I for one do not. Some may see that supporting a third party, one pledged to never accepting donations from corporations, as a solution. I sort of agree with this at least as a partial solution.

The key to whatever is necesary to retaking our democratic republic from the corporatists who work diligently to shrink the middle class and put profit before honor and freedom is engaging and involving the peoples of these United States. Talking about violent overthrow of the government is not the way to win through.

Subtext…...I will always respond politely to polite debate, that racist jackass is off my list and should be off the list of every right thinking person.

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By Verne Arnold, June 28, 2007 at 4:22 am Link to this comment

#81867 by THOMAS BILLIS on 6/27 at 2:10 pm

Thomas, thanks, I do agree and Frank Zappa was truly a genius.  I had followed him in a number of interviews a long, long time ago.

Yes, prophetic and sad at the same time…these are things we don’t like to see come to reality.

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By cyrena, June 28, 2007 at 3:57 am Link to this comment

#81675 by PaulMagillSmith on 6/26 at 10:10 pm

Just noticed this particular post from you PaulMSmith, and you were wondering what the process and/or likihood was, of doing a sort of “citizens impeachment”.

I’m thinking there is, if only because it’s so clearly written into the Constitution, for exactly this reason…this circumstance, such an event. And, the founders were gun-shy at the time, they knew they wanted to say “never again” to the tryranny of “the king”. And, there are numerous grassroots impeachment groups that have come into what I like to think is some progress, since really the beginning of the year, when Nancy Pelosi made it clear that “impeachment was off the table”.

Admittedly, I was really disgusted to have her so summarily dismiss it, when they finally had a chance to DO something after 12 years of being hog-tied by these neo-cons.

But, the actual answer to your question about the logistics of doing a “citizens movement”, (a bit on the order of a class-action suit, except that this would need a constitutional law scholar/expert, of which there are many who would surely do the work pro bono, as a “we the people” type movement.) I can’t think of a time in our history, when things have ever been this bad. I mean Nixon was bad, there have been a few others, but this is just totally unprecedented, because it’s been such a total and devastating HIJACKING of our entire government structure!!!

But now, this last absurdity with him actually claiming that he’s not in the executive branch, because of this totally convuluted reasoning that would embarrass ANY legal clerk, or even a high school senior…because it’s just the most outrageous thing anybody has ever heard. Well, I now think it will be sooner than later, for them both to be gone.

At this point, cheney is so blatantly out of control, (that could have a reverse meaning I suppose, since it’s his unprecedented CONTROL that has put us in such peril) but you know what I mean. Now finally, some of his own are making noises, if only because of the pure essence of realpolitik. In other words, it’s only about the “party” now, and about their individual careers.

With this last move by dick, he’s just proved to all, that he’s finally gone over the edge, he’s out of control, and george is totally useless, as he always has been. If they didn’t know it before, they do now. I don’t see that they have a choice, but to do another late night walk like they did with Nixon. Otherwise, they’ve pretty much crashed and burned. Now the only question is how much left is salvagable. How much have they not already stolen, that we’ll never be able to recover.

Check out some of the groups at http://www.impeach.org

Howard Zinn wrote a piece specifically addressing this, about 6 or 8 months ago. You might try to google him, or check the truthout.org archieves.

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Tony Wicher's avatar

By Tony Wicher, June 28, 2007 at 12:30 am Link to this comment

We may be impeaching Cheney before September, I hope, I hope. I wonder if people will remember who introduced HR 333? Will he still be treated as a gentle Bambi creature with too many principles to have a chance of getting elected?

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By Nitro, June 27, 2007 at 10:24 pm Link to this comment

~B~ [81981] Thanks for the web links to check out. It’s hard to find good info sites.

And good post…

To A Better Day…

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By CitizenDefender, June 27, 2007 at 10:19 pm Link to this comment

White House, Cheney’s office subpoenaed By LAURIE KELLMAN, Associated Press Writer
53 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - The Senate subpoenaed the White House and Vice President Dick Cheney’s office Wednesday, demanding documents and elevating the confrontation with President Bush over the administration’s warrant-free eavesdropping on Americans.


White House, Cheney’s office, subpoenaed
The Senate Judiciary Committee subpoenaed the White House and Vice President Dick Cheney’s office Wednesday for documents relating to President Bush’s controversial eavesdropping program that operated warrant-free for five years. (June 27)

The escalation is part of the Democrats’ effort to hold the administration to account for the way it has conducted the war on terrorism since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. The subpoenas extend the probe into the private sector, demanding among other things documents on any agreements that telecommunications companies made to cooperate with the surveillance program.

The White House contends that its search for would-be terrorists is legal, necessary and effective — pointing out frequently that there have been no further attacks on American soil.

To the Whitehouse statement: The 9-11 attack was a False Flag event intended to be used to start a war against Afghanistan, Iraq, then Syria, Lebanon, Libya and Iran.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EAVESDROPPING_SUBPOENAS?SITE=INEVA&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

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By Nitro, June 27, 2007 at 10:17 pm Link to this comment

Didn’t read the “Turner Diary” ardee [81704] and maybe I do need evaluating.

Too long of a list to address the names of those in our history, that were accqused of being off the wall, crazy, rebellious, needing evaluating, that were only proven to be nothing but “True Patriots” my friend.

So that’s ok in your opinion that I need evaluating, because I have big shoulders. I just wonder… have you ever offered your life for your country? Or are you of the 99% that don’t serve, yet sit back and squander with no respect for the liberty’s that prevail to everyone, yet, only paid for by a few?

Would you fight for your land, your rights, your freedoms, your Liberty? Or would you sit back and wait for it all to be history, while watching it on CNN? At someone else’s all expense…

Wave your flag of peace my friend, the day is coming, it’s in the wind. Pray yet a peaceful solution comes about, no doubt, yet face reality and what has been done and happened. They have BROKEN THE LAW, and if refuse to agree to a Article V Convention, then once again my friend,...

IT IS UP TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO REMOVE FROM OFFICE THOSE IN VIOLATION, AND RESTORE THE GOVERNMENT TO A GOVERNABLE ONE.

All I can say is if it comes down to it… you’ll damn sure see me there on the front lines, as before… It’s one thing to wear a t-shirt that says, “NO FEAR.” It’s quite the other to live it…

So think what you may my friend, just know, that I am a TRUE PATRIOT ! ~

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By ~B~, June 27, 2007 at 9:12 pm Link to this comment

“to the open forum:
Any moron like this one who preaches violent revolution in open forum is either really stupid(he is, obviously),a real right wing nutjob in the Tim McVeigh category, very young and already bored with summer vacation or a provocateur hoping to incite a progressive website to preach violence. Your choice.”

Ardee you are risking joining Point Blank in “proving with such eloquence how very useless you are to any ultimate solution to the problems besetting our nation”

Revolution is not for “right wing nut jobs” exclusively. It is also the last tool available to an oppressed population. Would you claim Patrick Henry to be any of the above slurs because of his opposition to oppression and his calls for revolution? [Not that I am by ANY means comparing Point Blank to Patrick Henry…I agree with your assessment in Point Blanks case but I digress…]

While we are at it, Patrick Henry himself feared what the nation had become after the revolution. He feared the same impulses of greed, corruption, and consolidation of power we had fought the king to escape. If not for his activism the Bill of Rights would not exist. He realized that in order for a government to be free of oppression it must be created for the sole purpose of freedom. Any other reason for forming a government would inextricably lead to some sort of oppression.

“You are not to inquire how your trade may be increased, nor how you are to become a great and powerful people, but how your liberties can be secured; for liberty ought to be the direct end of your Government.” Patrick Henry at the Virginia Ratifying Convention June 5 1788.

http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/v1ch8s38.html

The above site is a great resource for folks who would like to actually read the arguments that helped forge this nation.

Also, as an interesting aside…fear mongering is an American tradition. At the time of the birth of our nation fear was the main engine to drive the states to form a large national government rather than a loose confederation. Again, Patrick Henry rose against this threat also at the Va Ratifying Conv.

“Consider our situation, Sir: Go to the poor man, ask him what he does; he will inform you, that he enjoys the fruits of his labour, under his own fig-tree, with his wife and children around him, in peace and security. Go to every other member of the society, you will find the same tranquil ease and content; you will find no alarms or disturbances: Why then tell us of dangers to terrify us into an adoption of this new Government? and yet who knows the dangers that this new system may produce; they are out of the sight of the common people: They cannot foresee latent consequences: I dread the operation of it on the middling and lower class of people: It is for them I fear the adoption of this system.”

After over two centuries here we are STILL fear-mongering the citizens into a more and more oppressive government. Into more and more economic pitfalls, military misadventures, and of course the lining of the pockets of those in power.

So the question is…is Patrick Henry (the original not the poster here lol) a moron? right wing nut job? very young? or a provocateur?

A moron would be one who would let their government run amok. A moron would allow his government to dictate to him what his rights should be. A moron would allow this government to continue as it has for centuries. Bush is not the begining just the latest.

Point Blank - try reading more it may open your eyes…

B

http://b-political.blogspot.com/

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By DennisD, June 27, 2007 at 8:26 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

If a cockroach can survive a nuclear blast how can a mere subpoena or impeachment trial harm Chenmail. He does what he wants because he knows there isn’t a Democrat with enough balls to stand up to him and he owns all the Republicans.

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By KYJurisDoctor, June 27, 2007 at 8:11 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Dick Cheney imagines himself an emperor.

http://osi-speaks.blogspot.com/2007/06/emperor-dick-cheney-creates-fourth.html#links

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By ardee, June 27, 2007 at 4:13 pm Link to this comment

#81709 by Point Blank on 6/27 at 5:08 am
(94 comments total)

ardee, IF you support what I deem communist backed shit head organizations, then it goes without saying that you are so damn low you have to jump up to touch bottom and that your color must be the same as a horse’s pha-toot.  On what coast are you located?  Since you are probably a “city slicker” the color is PINK!  Now, sonny, go to your corner and play with yourself.  Bye, jerk-

I must thank you for proving with such eloquence how very useless you are to any ultimate solution to the problems besetting our nation, so eloquently that I felt the need to repost it in its entirety. Everyone should have the opprotunity to see how sophomoric and really abysmally stupid you are, and , as the bold emphasises, a racist asshole to boot.

to the open forum:
Any moron like this one who preaches violent revolution in open forum is either really stupid(he is, obviously),a real right wing nutjob in the Tim McVeigh category, very young and already bored with summer vacation or a provocateur hoping to incite a progressive website to preach violence. Your choice.

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By THOMAS BILLIS, June 27, 2007 at 3:10 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

To Verne the end of my comment was intended to mean let us all grow up and not get so involved in what church one goes to and who one is sleeping with.That competence be the number one priority in who we elect for office and individually we worry about our own morality.
To add something that is irrelevant to this discussion but I think is interesting.Last night wondering through You tube I saw a debate Frank Zappa was having about record labeling in 1988 and he made the statement that the United States was headed toward a fascist theocracy if it continued in its current domestic policies.Talk about prophecy.Move over Nostradamus.

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By Patrick Story, June 27, 2007 at 2:42 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The supposed fear of “President Dick Cheney” is phoney. In the real world, the pile of evidence brought against either Bush or Cheney will cause the other to make a deal fast to escape criminal prosecution, and then resign. Then “President Nancy Pelosi.” Let’s get on with it now.

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By cyrena, June 27, 2007 at 1:22 pm Link to this comment

#81718 by Sylvia Barksdale Morovitz on 6/27 at 5:51

Sylvia, this is an excellent post, and you bring up an interesting point about Eugene’s reference to any comment on impeachment. As a matter-of-fact, he gives the standard excuse at the beginning of his column, when he writes this:

...“I’m often asked why, given my lower-than-low opinion of this administration, I don’t at least raise the subject of whether George W. Bush should be impeached. I answer with three scary words that tend to end the discussion: President Dick Cheney.”..

And, in reality, that WAS the thinking for the ordinary person who really hated the fact that george turned out to be a retard, (which many of us already knew), but the thought of Cheney’s suceeding him, (which is of course the Constitutional flow in such an event), was simply more than anyone could psychologically prepare for or embrace.

That is until it became increasingly obvious to ordinary people, that it was Cheney himself, that was the real danger, and he’s just as impeachable as bush and the others are, so the impeachment crowd finally figured out, that was where we needed to start…which Cheney. That’s the number one tactical solution in the counter-terrorism arsenal. Find the HEAD of the terror network, (in this case cheney) and whack or totally disable HIM, and the rest will follow.

That’s why the focus has to be on impeaching him first, which we now have more than enough evidence to do.

Meantime, the 4-part essay series on Cheney’s secret and criminal life is posted on Truthout. The series has been put together for the Washington Post, by a team of their top journalists and staff research assistants. To date, 3 parts have been published.  They are lengthy, but well worth the read. (one link will give you all three so far published.)

Never mind the last part. I’ve just noticed that all 4 parts are posted now, at this link:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/062707B.shtml

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By Serginho, June 27, 2007 at 1:04 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Simple solution…impeach and try both Duh and Chicanery together.

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By PaulMagillSmith, June 27, 2007 at 12:32 pm Link to this comment

Come on now, folks, “give Cheney a break”...a broken neck at the end of a rope for treason, that is!!!

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By Verne Arnold, June 27, 2007 at 9:35 am Link to this comment

#81704 by ardee on 6/27 at 4:37 am

GIVE ME LIBERTY, OR GIVE ME DEATH !!!

“Nitro, I much prefer you be given a psychiatric evaluation….So tell me, how did you enjoy reading “The Turner Diary”?”

Wow, Nitro, You must be one sick puppy, after all you would actually prefer death to imprisonment.  Imagine that!  You know what…me too!

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By Mudwollow, June 27, 2007 at 8:41 am Link to this comment

How many know about IBM helping the Third Reich make their death camps run more smoothly? How about both Ford and General Motors working with Adolph and then receiving war reparations when the Nazis lost?

Maybe Cheney makes himself extra repulsive on purpose. Maybe he just wants to avoid a lot of “I like Dick” bumper stickers and T-shirts.

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By Verne Arnold, June 27, 2007 at 8:34 am Link to this comment

#81715 by CitizenDefender on 6/27 at 5:27 am

“What concerns me is why the American people were not informed of Prescott Bush aiding Adolph Hitler, so I have included a noteworthy link. After you watch this you will understand George “Herbert Walker” Bush was named after his father-in-law, Dorothy Walker Bush’s father George Herbert Walker.”

Yeah, we already know, so what’s your point?  Do you actually expect us to get up off of our ass and “DO” something?  Do you know how uncomfortable that would be?  Can you imagine the trouble that would cause?  I mean come on, get real.  I make 50K and I have a family…jeez, I mean, jeez, what do you expect?  Action for christ sake? I mean get real…Jesus, you must be nuts!

Tongue planted firmly in cheek…

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By cann4ing, June 27, 2007 at 8:29 am Link to this comment

CitizenDefender:  Actually, there are many who are well-aware of the connections between Prescott Bush and Nazi Germany.  If you go back to the 4/27/07 Truthdig article by Amy Goodman, “U.S. Frees International Terrorist,” you will find my three-part post entitled “curious links” that tracks three generations of the family Bush.

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By Verne Arnold, June 27, 2007 at 8:17 am Link to this comment

#81462 by Dr. Nonothingatall, Phud on 6/26 at 7:00 am

Interesting post…almost poetic…I think I agree.  I just can’t figure out how all of this shit happened.  I thought we were smart, I thought we had it all figured out, I guess I was wrong.

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By Skruff, June 27, 2007 at 7:04 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

81715 by CitizenDefender on 6/27 at 5:27 am

I applaud all the comments made to the Cheney issue. What concerns me is why the American people were not informed of Prescott Bush aiding Adolph Hitler, so I have included a noteworthy link. After you watch this you will understand George “Herbert Walker” Bush was named after his father-in-law, Dorothy Walker Bush’s father George Herbert Walker. George Herbert Walker brought Prescott Bush into Brown Brothers Harriman and the Union Banking Corporation, which was a Nazi money laundering operation. John Buchanan, an investigative journalist brings a great deal to light about the Bush dealings.”

The “Harriman” being former Democratic activist and New York Governor Averial Harriman whoes wife Pam was funding Democratic candidates through the 1996 elections…

Point being Prescott Bush (R) was not alone…nor was his party.

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By Sylvia Barksdale Morovitz, June 27, 2007 at 6:51 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Robinson’s story on Cheney tells it like it is!  True, Dick Cheney has plenty of smarts.  Unfortunately, for America and the rest of the world, they are criminal smarts.  He pulls Bush’s chain as easily as flushing a toilet and I believe he is the prime player in most of the illegalities committed by this administration.  This is not to intimate that I think Bush is an angel.  He is far from it and as Chief Executive, should have put Cheney in the closet long ago instead of allowing him to make policy.
The drive to impeach Cheney, if successful, would ensure that he never sat in the controlling chair of our nation.  This is precisely the reason the move is on!  I am surprised and disappointed that Robinson failed to discuss this.  If Cheney were cast out, Bush would be at a loss as to any direction he should take our country.  He has followed the brainwash of Cheney and Rove too long to be able to stand alone.  It’s possible that he might even resign.
As Congress and the House loses more and more republican backing and some are calling for the redeployment of our troops from Iraq and Afganistan, Bush is finding himself in a quandry that he’s unable to deal with.  He has obviously considered himself as a person who is above the laws of the land and now to find himself looked upon as a tyrant and mass murderer, he might just do something really stupid, like hitting Iran with WMD, thereby, escalating a war that never should have begun in the first place and creating more enemies for our country who will never forget his crimes.
The three, Bush, Cheney and Rove should do their time in the can like all common criminals, though they’re crimes aren’t common by a long shot but akin to the greatest despot the world has ever known.

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By CitizenDefender, June 27, 2007 at 6:27 am Link to this comment

I applaud all the comments made to the Cheney issue. What concerns me is why the American people were not informed of Prescott Bush aiding Adolph Hitler, so I have included a noteworthy link. After you watch this you will understand George “Herbert Walker” Bush was named after his father-in-law, Dorothy Walker Bush’s father George Herbert Walker. George Herbert Walker brought Prescott Bush into Brown Brothers Harriman and the Union Banking Corporation, which was a Nazi money laundering operation. John Buchanan, an investigative journalist brings a great deal to light about the Bush dealings. http://video.stumbleupon.com/#p=09zrk9id8n

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By Skruff, June 27, 2007 at 6:24 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Patrick Henry has been quoted here slightly out of context. the complete line is even more apt to our current situation:


“Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!”

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By ardee, June 27, 2007 at 5:37 am Link to this comment

GIVE ME LIBERTY, OR GIVE ME DEATH !!!

Nitro, I much prefer you be given a psychiatric evaluation….So tell me, how did you enjoy reading “The Turner Diary”?

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By ardee, June 27, 2007 at 5:35 am Link to this comment

#81591 by Point Blank on 6/26 at 4:49 pm
(93 comments total)

ardee, you betcha I have nothing but ill feelings towards the ACLU (American Communits Lawyers Union), the NAACP and the rest of the off beat organizations.  I will never, for as long as I live, make anything but the most vile remarks about them.  If you don’t like it then I suggest you cease reading any and all of my comments.

...Done and done.

One may, you fail to understand, criticize with intellect and thus avoid proving, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you are a moron.

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By Verne Arnold, June 27, 2007 at 5:15 am Link to this comment

#81664 by THOMAS BILLIS on 6/26 at 9:30 pm

I think I want to agree with you but, the last three sentences are confusing…please clarify.

Basically, we have screwed our selves through fear.  We have allowed the fascists to scare the common sense out of us and we are making shamefully bad decisions.  I pray we aren’t too late to change this tragic course of events.  Evil rules the day at this time.

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By PaulMagillSmith, June 27, 2007 at 12:53 am Link to this comment

Sorry I asked, Ernest, and I knew the Senate must try the case, but what is another avenue the people have when confronted by an un-responsive legislature? It appears the founding fathers, while presenting a good format for democratic principles, did not consider all the ramifications tyrants could bring to bear.

Another civil war seems in the mix, if not another revolution. Can we count on the sensibility (common sense) of the American people at large, when confronted with the polluting factor of money driven election processes & propagandistic information sources? Without a viable means of educating the masses to truth about this corrupt cesspool known as ‘our government’ I am inclined to not be hopeful, yet I still cling to the belief I wrote in a previous blog, “Tyrannies are temporary”.

The real question is how long can we afford to wait before the world, and our country, are doomed? I wish the re-incarnations of Jefferson & Franklin would step out of the shadows to give us insight & direction, but I’m afraid it’s just up to us, folks.

Keep on plugging away, Ernest, and after studying numerous of your posts take heart in the fact you’re not alone.

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By cann4ing, June 26, 2007 at 11:59 pm Link to this comment

Paul, you could not bring criminal charges against Bush/Cheney while they remain in office.  The sequence would be impeachment, trial in the Senate and then removal from office.  They could then be subjected to criminal prosecutions, but in order to charge them under the War Crimes Act, Congress would have to repeal the Military Commissions Act, which provided a retroactive grant of immunity for all crimes committed in carrying out the Orwellian “war on terror.”

Have you watched the video from the link I provided?  If not, you definitely should.

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By PaulMagillSmith, June 26, 2007 at 11:20 pm Link to this comment

Calm down Nitro; don’t want you to get in trouble by speaking the truth LOUD & CLEAR. If I can I’ll send you a care package to Git-Mo, ok friend?

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By PaulMagillSmith, June 26, 2007 at 11:10 pm Link to this comment

The question is no longer ‘Should Cheney (then Bush) be impeached and tried for many obvious crimes?’, but how to go about making this happen. I know there are certain governmental immunities involved, but what if 100,000 or so citizens (who could afford the required filing fees) filed criminal charges against Cheney & Bush in the DC & Federal courts? Could they actually be arrested and “frog marched out of the Whitehouse in handcuffs”? (That phrase was used by a patriot a few years ago…remember?) Any lawyers on this thread who can shed some light in this area?

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By THOMAS BILLIS, June 26, 2007 at 10:30 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Let me start with a quote from Shakespeare"the fault Cassius lies not in the stars but in ourselves”.Dumb gets dumb stupid gets stupid.These people are elected by the people who demand more Paris Hilton and Nicole Smith and by the way 5 mins of politics on the evening news for who is going to lead the free world.All this impeachment talk is buyers remorse High Crimes and misdeamoners does not spell incompetence.If you followed the electoral process in 2000 and did not know that Geroge Bush was a moron shame on you.If you did not follow it or better yet did not vote you are getting what you deserve.Demand smarter better candididates forget who are they are sleeping with and what church they go to you will have better government.You can be a great legislator and unfaithful to your wife.The legislation has to do with us and infidelity his wife has to deal with.It seems that all the adult countries seem to realize this and we do not and look where it got us.A man who sleeps with only one woman and fucks the country.

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By Nitro, June 26, 2007 at 10:21 pm Link to this comment

Point Blank - [ #81581 - 81591 ]
You are more right than rain my friend about the upcoming 2nd Revolution and it just may be sooner than most want.

And if ardee thinks your reasoning for the Revolution is “faulty?” How dare you for being so honest about the cry baby NAACP, the communist ACLU, and the back shooting Amnesty Int !

So ardee, you wanted to know if any other commentors shared Point Blanks “disturbing views…” You’re damn right I do and then some ! Share this one…
VIVA LA REVOLUTION !!!

Share this disturbing view as well. Instead of wasting any more time and tax dollars on any Impeachment proceedings, since they’ve all deemed themselves “Above and Beyond the Law and Prosecution,” how about just EXILING them ?

Would that not disturb your view too much ? Since you definately would not want to hear my disturbing view I’ve stated for over a month now of tarring and feathering the bastards on the White House Lawn or maybe a couple dozen hangings on the White House Lawn at dawn.

But maybe here’s a more suitable VIEW for you ardee. Check out the FOAVC.com web site [Friends of the Article V Convention]. Since that is about the last peaceful attempt to remove our current tyrant dick-taters I see that just might come to pass before the 2nd Revolution.

And if Congress fails to meet the AMERICAN PEOPLE on this one, then I hate to inform all the Sheeple of the U.S. but it will be the RESPONSIBILITY, of the American People to REMOVE the personnel in our current dick-tater ship, by force or any means, and RESTORE OUR government to a governable and responsible system.

And if the Article V Convention comes to pass, then I hope the 1st Amendment that is passed will be one to reduce the government personnel’s paychecks, perks and benefits, to something more realistic and appropriate to their efforts deserved. At least cut off their health insurance until every American has health insurance, and return our wages to those more realistic than nothing more than minimum wages. Maybe that would help them return FAIR TRADE and help do something about the current health care screw job going on in America!

And hopefully we will SECURE OUR BORDERS and return all ILLEGAL ALIENS to their rightful country! And AMNESTY THAT !

So in a locked VIEW with Point Blank… sorry if my Nitro-methane got mixed with a little Nitro-glycerin tonight, but I can only think of one last thing to say…

GIVE ME LIBERTY, OR GIVE ME DEATH !!!

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By PaulMagillSmith, June 26, 2007 at 10:20 pm Link to this comment

Hitler was a survivor, too, until his madness was revealed to the world, and he poisoned & shot himself. With an utter lack of decency I don’t believe Cheney will be so accomodating. Sad for the rest of us, eh?

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By cann4ing, June 26, 2007 at 9:36 pm Link to this comment

Point Blank, I assume from your post that you linked and watched.  Kudos my friend.  Your “if true” remark strikes at the core of the issue. 

While the video was quite impressive, I am not convinced “beyond a shadow of a doubt.”  At this point, I will say that it warrants an objective and thorough investigation, but then, given the numbers of gutless politicians occupying the halls of Congress, one wonders how far Kucinich can go with his proposed investigation.  Not far, I suppose, in the absence of greater numbers of individuals taking the time to watch this powerful, and suprisingly academic, video.

If it is true, impeachment would not be enough—not even close.  “If true” amounts to treason and wanton murder.  Most of us, myself included, would prefer that it wasn’t true, but then that is merely a reflection of a psychological defense mechanism—denial.  Not wanting it to be true does not mean that it isn’t. 

Because this video may be the most important any of us watch in our life times, I am re-posting the link.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=964034652002408586

Once again, I encourage every “Truth”-digger, every person who regards him or herself as an active citizen and not merely a passive consumer, to watch it.  Then come back.  If you can offer a valid intellectual challenge to its content—please do!  If not, spread the word.

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By ~B~, June 26, 2007 at 9:26 pm Link to this comment

Many good comments on this piece.

Welcome Ernest to the 9-11 official story disbelievers. It could be believable if the laws of physics were as easy to manipulate as the constitution and Bill of Rights have been.

I would love to see Kuchinich try another go at truth…but does anyone here truly believe we will EVER know the full truth? I do not.

And as to my questions on Revolution/Fascism…I think revolution is an impossibility in this nation. We have been divided. We have been split along political, ideological, racial, national (huge population of non residents), and about every other way we could be divided. Not least of all those who eyes are open (minority) and those who call them conspiracy nuts (majority). In other words people are either complicit or complacent and neither will be fighting this government in any form.

As to the fascism, It has already taken hold and is quickly gobbling up more. If it is not checked soon (and I doubt it will be) we will soon find ourselves prisoners and slaves (which we are very close to already).

If you haven’t noticed our rights are nearly gone. Our government is out of our control and entirely in control. We are sliding down a slippery slope and all I see are dogma and fascismo at the bottom. Can we crawl back up?


B

http://b-political.blogspot.com/

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By weather, June 26, 2007 at 7:24 pm Link to this comment

Ernest Canning, maybe you’re right, Ronald Reagan could have been act one of a very troubling production of the art & science of deceit.
Though I don’t belive we were as a Nation so infected at the time w/a such a highly manipulated media machine as we are at this moment. A machine so toxic it could contain and help choreograph the greatest fraud ever put over on America:9/11 “seminal” indeed.

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By cann4ing, June 26, 2007 at 6:19 pm Link to this comment

I must say that I have been somewhat pleasantly surprised by the near unanimity of support for the impeachment of Richard Cheney at this post, especially that coming from my fellow Vietnam vet, Point Blank, who usually occupies a position at the opposite end of the political spectrum from my own.  I suspect that if the corporate media polled the American public at large on whether they supported Congressman Kucinich’s call to impeach, rather than the corporatist stooges who stood like frozen statues on stage at the first Democratic debate, the results would have been markedly different.

But the extent to which so many despise this most secretive of our public officials is based only on what we know?  Could it be that what we don’t know is much worse?

Throughout the time I have posted comments at Truthdig, I had been skeptical of those other Truthdiggers who insisted that there was some official complicity in 9/11.  I remained skeptical until this past week when another Truthdigger provided the following link:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=964034652002408586

The academic presentation on this video is about two hours in length.  I would encourage all to view it.  I would be intrigued not only by its impact on others, but would be delighted to hear from those who could intellectually challenge the disturbing questions it raises about this seminal event—not the least of which is the distinct possibility of official complicity and that Cheney could have been at its core.

Finally, I would note that Dennis Kucinich has announced that he will hold Congressional hearings in September to look into questions the 9/11 Commission failed to answer.

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By Margaret Currey, June 26, 2007 at 6:17 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Back in the Nixon administration Spiro Agno quit as vice president, of course Chaney has no soul so he and Bush along with Gonzales have to be Impeached, of course how do you Impeach Gonzales when his branch does the Impeachment process, this country is in a tight bind and if things go the way that Chaney wants them this is no longer a government that has freedom, in other words the military will take over, the elections will be cancled and we will be an American USSR.

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By ardee, June 26, 2007 at 5:32 pm Link to this comment

#81581 by Point Blank on 6/26 at 3:55 pm
(89 comments total)

It will, unfortunately, come to a revolution in the near future.  I firmly believe the American people are damned tire of the federal gov’t. shoving everything down our throats and taking a hell of a lot more than they give.  They have, for too many years, REFUSED to listen to the people of the United States, but, but, but WILL listen to the likes of the ACLU, NAACP, Amnesty International, etc. They live high on the hog with our tax money WITHOUT OUR PERMISSION.  Look at the raises and the retirement benefits and the perks THEY vote for themselves when it SHOULD BE WE, THE PEOPLE THAT DETERMINE WHAT THEY ARE ENTITLED TO AND WHEN. They are SCREWING us without any foreplay whatsoever and it is all in the name of GREED AND GREENBACKS.

I find your reasoning for a revolution faulty, the conditions for such a violent overthrow of a powerful government commanding a very powerful army untenable and your derogatory references to the NAACP, the ACLU and Amnesty International (?) chilling and all too revealing.

I wonder how many here share this disturbing view?

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By cann4ing, June 26, 2007 at 5:29 pm Link to this comment

Sorry, weather, but Ronald Reagan was the beginning of the problem.  The Reagan you think you know was the fictional creation of the right-wing media.  The man should have been impeached for Iran Contra.

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By ardee, June 26, 2007 at 5:00 pm Link to this comment

For thedeanpeople
I noted that you linked to a DU article and I just had to mention that Groupthink reigns supreme there.

The three founders, Earl,Elad and David, roomies at Yale and now partners in DU, are confirmed DLC guys, one even contracts to them. That site has purged leftists who criticize the Democratic Party, some of whom were fine minds indeed. One of them, Pocho by name, marched alongside Dr. King in Selma yet was “tombstoned” for a five word response to the question;“Why were we attacked on 9/11?”. His answer,“because we had it coming.”

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By weather, June 26, 2007 at 4:42 pm Link to this comment

When good looks bad and bad is choreographed to look good, you’re near the tipping point.

Im a 3rd gen. Republican ashamed of the affiliation.  I believe humbly and sincerely that if Ronald Reagan were to see today how the spirit and intent of his policies had been so preverted by those in power, he’d be spinning in his grave.

Instead of moving forward into a new and very challenged century w/esteemable hope, we are being dragged down into a dark, draconian hole and the Media wants to be the tour guide.

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By ~B~, June 26, 2007 at 4:32 pm Link to this comment

This is all bulls—t. You can blaim Cheney, Bush, Gonzales, Rupert Murdoch, Every Last Rep. and Sen. that voted for the Patriot Act, PA II, MCA, etc. You can blame the media, SCOTUS, Rush Limbaugh, hell anyone ya want. This is NOT an individual leader issue. It is not a group of bad seeds issue. This system has been built over a matter of decades by Dem. and Rep. alike, by presidents, reps., sens., justices, and all the plethora of other beaurocrats.

Our rights have slowly been erroded over time to make it seem everyday—so there would be no backlash when they disappeared all together in the future - which sadly appears to be upon us.

Our military has been thrown around the world and usually stays. This has made deployments commonplace. War outrage becomes exhaustion.

Our government has been privatized, outsourced, and what remains is continually more corporatized. This has made it nearly impossible to control costs, maintain oversight, or achieve the goals that the original government program was set up to achieve.

Our elections have been toyed with and toyed with for so long the voters feel their vote has NO bearing.

Our bipartisan system has never really put forward a candidate that represented the people. Each party puts forward the candidates who are influential among their controlling big business donors/owners. This has resulted in candidates so similar the voters feel no reason to vote at all.

Talk is no longer enough. No change has come of discussion. We continue down the road we have trod for many decades now.

I guess the question to be answered is will America have a second revolution? Will American states someday celebrate independence day from the American Federal Government? Or will the American people go the way of the German population in the 1930s - ignoring fascism until it was far to late? Or will the American people embrace their fascism?

B

http://b-political.blogspot.com/

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PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, June 26, 2007 at 4:24 pm Link to this comment

HR333 targets Cheney, whose authors have already thought it out.

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By felicity, June 26, 2007 at 4:24 pm Link to this comment

#81437 by ardee

Everyone should read your post.  Great job!

I’ll add that Cheney is fighting for his historical life.  In his own eyes, he’s a loser and his history, when studied in depth confirms it. All that he advocates and does reflect his personal drive to assuage what he knows about himself - he’s a coward.  A person shamed, even if his shame comes from within himself, can be extremely dangerous.  The tragedy is that America has been caught up in his personal quest for redemption.

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By great_satan, June 26, 2007 at 4:17 pm Link to this comment

Its not a new pheneomena, didn’t Reagan nod out through the staff meetings? Wasn’t Bush Sr. President for 12 years? He just handled it with his G-man subtlety instead of running around glaring at the camera and making public declarations of “I don’t listen to nobody!”.
  Jr and Reagan are the same, the clownish frontman for the Veep who just looks to nefarious to get elected.
  But the neo-con control game has progressed since the “Golden Age” of the Reagan years, so there is less need for subtlety. The veep can now just say “F you, what the hell are ya gonna do about it.” The public will forget about it the next time Bush steps up and says, “I’m the decider.”

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By Sang Ze, June 26, 2007 at 2:32 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Cheney for President! The man is obviously a genius.

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By QuyTran, June 26, 2007 at 2:29 pm Link to this comment

Bush couldn’t be president without Cheney ! So only animal will look after animal !

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By Hammo, June 26, 2007 at 2:11 pm Link to this comment

As Robinson indicates, Cheney does appear to be highly skilled ... and highly dangerous.

Because of his five draft deferments during the Vietnam War, and his apparent extreme desire for the invasion and occupation of Iraq, Cheney could fairly be called a “chicken hawk.”

More on this concept in the article:

“Chicken hawks are real and dangerous”

http://www.populistamerica.com/chicken_hawks_are_real_and_dangerous

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By Scott, June 26, 2007 at 2:02 pm Link to this comment

I’d hate to think it will take a string of galvanizing events to make more people pay attention. If the critical mass of people capable of connecting dots for themselves doesn’t exist I fail to see how things will improve.

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By rage, June 26, 2007 at 12:49 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Cheney IS the President! It’s why we need to impeach HIM. Dumya Forrest Gump, the more-tarded, couldn’t manage a decent fart, let alone the whole country.

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By ctbrandon, June 26, 2007 at 11:41 am Link to this comment

“Can American voters recall or otherwise impeach their representatives?”

We can, by demanding that our elected representatives do just that…represent the voice of the public. Unfortunately, most Americans are too preoccupied with work, family, and the occasional escape that American Idol provides. Until we begin holding our representatives accountable from the city council to the President of the United States, they will continue to stomp on the Constitution.

brandon
http://www.actforyourself.org

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By eric swan, June 26, 2007 at 11:38 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

not impeaching bush/cheney will set a precedent that will destroy what is left of our democracy.

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By Karen, June 26, 2007 at 11:13 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Apparently some in the GOP are thinking about how to get rid of Cheney (he’s due to have surgery this summer to replace the batteries in his pacemaker).

Sally Quinn in today’s Washington Post has floated a trial balloon for the replacement being Fred Thompson.

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By Karen, June 26, 2007 at 11:04 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Our model should be Watergate.  First Spiro Agnew was forced to resign and then they went after Nixon.

Dennis Kucinich has a bill calling for the impeachment of Cheney.  If the Dems (and the American people) would get behind that, then we might be able to force Cheney at least to resign, if not actually impeach him. 

The question we might want to worry about is who Bush/Rove would choose to be the next VP.

At any rate, we must stand up to thugs or we lose everything.  And we are very close to that already.

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By GW=MCHammered, June 26, 2007 at 10:07 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Narcissists like Bush and Cheney will always pull the tire-iron defense of “special” or “secret information” when their ego or back is to the wall. But their survival toolbox doesn’t really hold that many tools. It’s why they need an army behind them to survive.

And the Dem’s rollover submissiveness is exactly what’s wrong with (only) two-party rule… it can end up the perfect marriage of the ills. Allow Unelected Lobbyists as their marriage counselor and you end up with the three-way orgy of malady we have today.

The final coffin nail however, is that of the passive ‘We The People.’ Ultimately, we are the wallet that enables their vice. A national two-week retreat from our work/spend-all disease would cure many a woe.

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By Scott, June 26, 2007 at 9:53 am Link to this comment

Can American voters recall or otherwise impeach their representatives?

If there is any truth to the adage that people get the governments they deserve then it stands to reason voters are ultimately just as responsible for their representatives actions as their inactions.

That other well worn phrase lead, follow or get out of the way comes to mind and unfortunately it looks like voters have opting for the third choice. If there is any truth to the belief that the terrorists hate your freedoms its probably your ‘freedom’ to do this they hate the most.

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By Inherit The Wind, June 26, 2007 at 9:03 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

It’s very simple:
Any impeachment effort names Cheney first and Bush 2nd. That way, Cheney is convicted and ousted first, then Bush.

Cheney has taken us back to the Nixon Watergate years—and the corrupt, cowardly idiots in Congress not only let him, they helped him do it!

Watching Cheney operate in the Bush WH is very similar to watching the way Joseph Stalin operated when Lenin was still alive, and after.  Give no quarter, turn on ANYONE who even deviates a hair from your agenda.

Richard Cheney is not only emblematic of what is wrong with our government, he is the worst thing to happen to it since the Civil War.  The health and safety of our very freedom requires that this monster be evicted via impeachment, then tried, convicted and sentenced as the traitor he is to his nation and the Constitution he swore to defend.

He is a liar and as CEO of Halliburton he was a total incompetent who didn’t even know to do due-diligence on companies they purchased.

He deserves a prison jump-suit even more than Dictator Bush.

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By cann4ing, June 26, 2007 at 8:52 am Link to this comment

The June 25, 2007 Washington Post article, “Pushing the Envelope on Presidential Power,” places Cheney and his chief of staff, David Addington, at the heart of the torture scandal and the more than 1000 presidential signing statements, as part of their endless drive to acquire dictatorial executive powers.  It is a far superior piece to Mr. Robinson’s apologetics for evading the issue of impeachment.  All Truthdiggers are encouraged to read it.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/cheney/chapters/pushing_the_envelope_on_presi/index.html

The argument that you can’t impeach Bush because Cheney would then become President is a cop-out.  You can either bring articles of impeachment first against Cheney, as Dennis Kucinich has done, or you could bring impeachment proceedings against Bush, Cheney, Alberto Gonzales and Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas (for lying under oath at his confirmation hearings) simultaneously as the House and Senate also move to repeal the Torture Act aka Military Commissions Act of 2006 (MCA).  Because the MCA established a retroactive immunity for all war crimes committed in service of the Orwellian “war on terror,” a repeal of that act is a necessary pre-requiste to bringing these high-level war criminals before the bar of justice.

At the time she first stated that impeachment would be “off-the-table,” Speaker Nancy Pelosi stated that it was a “waste of time.”  Yesterday, on Democracy Now! Salt Lake City Mayor Rocky Anderson wondered aloud as to how the framers of the constitution would have reacted to the suggestion that their insertion of the impeachment clause into the Constitution was a “waste of time.”

The appointment of one more Federalist Society Justice would produce a Federalist Society majority on the Supreme Court and an end to the rule of law as we know it.  Every day this fascist regime remains in power carries with it the danger of a permanent loss of our Constitutional democracy.  Our “representatives” in Congress are supposed to be the guardians of the rule of law.  Impeachment in these circumstances is not merely their prerogative but a “duty” the framers imposed on members of congress essential to the preservation of the very document/in which the impeachment clause is to be found.

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By Chaseme, June 26, 2007 at 8:20 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

When cheney bought the presidency back in 2000, he wasn’t looking for someone to support his ideas; he was looking for someone stupid enough to carry them out. Hence, the thing we have holding the title as commander in chief.

No other republican candidate could fit the bill like bush. Back in 2000, McCain surely wasn’t as stupid as he is now. This administration has a tendency to do that to people. Right, Powell?

Cheney knew he would be where he is long before 2000. He had wormed his way through a network of corridors that would lead him out into his own garden of green backs. Those corridors, if accessed by an amateur, (Amateur-those who has spent time in Vietnam and time recovering from the trauma of war) would appear to lead to and from the Pentagon, or in and out of the public and private sectors.

With the amount of time cheney spent traversing to and from the public and private sectors, (deferments) he became wily enough to hang onto things that could be useful to him. Things like, the many government contracts he created while at the Pentagon. Where are those contracts now?

This is why I think it is important that once a person receives a Governmental Security Clearance, your fate should be sealed with the government. None of this back and forth movement, because eventually the line between the two will be even more skewed than they are now with who’s doing what in Iraq? 

So it was never a question of who would be appointed to the vice-presidency, the concern for the board members at Halliburton was, ‘Who can we appoint that is stupid enough to allow us to pull this off?’ And, ‘How can we eventually find a way to keep our mastermind in a money making role?’

Rumsfeld is still around, do you think cheney will just disappear? bush will be the only one cutting down trees after ‘08, while the others are in the board rooms of some private company improvising ways to do it (911?) all over again.

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By Dr. Nonothingatall, Phud, June 26, 2007 at 8:00 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Cheney…the black heart of America!  The poster man (not a boy) of all that is wrong and evil,

That we allow him relevance is a travesty of even our own black history,

It defies the very image we hold so dear, illusion at its best,

This nation in denial of so much,

Fear rules and like a thief in the night,

Steals that which we hold so dear, that which we never were.

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By thedeanpeople, June 26, 2007 at 7:54 am Link to this comment

This Is Just Another Beltway Brahmin False Meme

Even Robinson identifies it as a means to “end the discussion.”

What it really is, is a means to dismiss even considering the possiblity rationally.

This is how GroupThink works.

Here a sampling of the Impeachophobes’ False Memes.

—-

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By KISS, June 26, 2007 at 7:20 am Link to this comment

“Didn’t Cheney claim executive privilege as his reason for keeping secret the process he followed in developing the administration’s energy policy, including the names of the people with whom he met? “
And pray-tell who is about to challenge him? The Dimmos have no guts and with the latest Supreme Court decisions he is as safe as the gold in Ft. Knox. Cheney’s power came from cowardly journalism and his subordinates, without challenges the door was open for him to do as he damned well pleased.
Impeachment of Cheney…now that would be justice even if Bush pardons him.

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By Mark in NY, June 26, 2007 at 6:50 am Link to this comment

Cheney already is president; he has been since 2000.  Shrub doesn’t even blink unless Cheney’s hand is up his ass, puppet-like, pulling the controls.

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By Marjorie L. Swanson, June 26, 2007 at 6:48 am Link to this comment

Cheney isn’t that much smarter than all the rest of the neo-cons, he’s just willing to do whatever it takes to achieve his ends. Call the Dems wimps, and there is truth in that, but don’t forget all the wimpy Republicans that dared not protest lest they be Chenied or Roved. Or else being politicians, they just didn’t care so long as they got re-elected.

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