Mudwallow, in law, intend is exceedingly important when it comes to the degree of culpability.  You should not be providing this administration “the benefit of the doubt” when there is no doubt.  Truth and accuracy matter.

Well, this falls in line with the arrogance, incompetence and hypocrisy that this administration has instilled into the federal government.

Putting in place policies of torture while being able to deny them with some plausibility is every repressive regime’s dream. Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and their accomplices may have learnt from their colleagues in Mexico, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Egypt, Morocco, China, or many other places…

Ernest Channing, apparently you didn’t grasp the simple point that either way one looks at the situation the administration belongs behind bars. Criminal incompetence or just plain criminality, it doesn’t matter.

Mudwollow, there is no “possible.”  Had you bothered to read the Washington Post article I linked to, you would see that “orders” to torture came from on high.  While Cheney, Addington, Gonzales, Bybee (now a federal judge) and Rumsfeld were the principle movers, the President is implicated as well.  That is why, when Justice Kennedy fired a shot across the bow of the U.S.S. Unitary Executive by stating in the Hamdan decision that violations of Common Article 3 of the Geneva Convention amount to criminal violations under the U.S. War Crimes Act, it sent Gonzales scurrying over to the rubber-stamp Republican Congress which then gave them the Military Commissions Act that provided a retroactive immunity for all crimes committed by Americans in service of the Orwellian “war on terror.”

I admire the General.
  But i thin in the big picture, the slap on the wrist for the admin was well worth their long term goal in allowing this to happen. if not encouraging it.
  I’ve always thought those pictures were supposed to “leak out.” The recoil among the American people, who have largely forgotten about them already in our “up to the minute”, “breaking news” society here in the United States of Amnesia.
  I think their essential purpose was a psychological hit on the Iraqis. They were intended from the get go to be publicized to seriously terrify the Iraqis. I doubt they have so swiftly moved on to the next news Item, any more than the US has moved on from 9/11.

Let’s give the administration the benefit of the doubt.

Possibly they were as completely ignorant of this ongoing and widespread torture as they declared.

Possibly they were guilty of perpetrating it from the beginning.

It really doesn’t matter. Either they’re criminally incompetent or simply criminal. One would think you couldn’t have it both ways but having it both ways is what the Bush administration is all about.

mlevass, I have been in the military.  I have been in combat (Vietnam).  “You” my friend don’t know what you are talking about.  The “few bad apples” is a canard.  Ask Janice Karpinsky about the Rumsfeld-signed directives she saw posted on the Abu Ghraib walls.  Karpinsky, who had nothing to do with it, was scapegoated; demoted from General to Colonel while the likes of General Geoffrey Miller, who carried out this amoral task, was rewarded.  Take the time to read the Washington Post piece I linked to earlier in this post.  Read Alfred McCoy, “A Question of Torture.” 

What occurred at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo and what is still occurring for those who have disappeared into the CIA controlled, dark site dungeons across the globe, is not the product of a “few bad apples” but, in fact, is a matter of policy eminating from the highest levels of the U.S. government.  It is torture, plain and simple.  It is a war crime.  It is why the Military Commissions Act must be repealed, Cheney and Bush must be impeached and why all the perpetrators, no matter their rank or high office, must be brought before the bar of justice, tried in the same manner as the Nazis at Nuremberg.

Tell me and I will forget, Show me and I may remember, Involve me and I will understand”—Lao Tse

As William Shakespeare said and performed by moi: “ahh…there’s the rub”  Dick-n-Bush does not want you “involved”;) got it?

Read Assault on Reason—Al Gore.

Responding to a few comments:

First off.  Those of you who purport that torture is widespread need to seriously get out of your action movie mentalities. Just because you have watched a lot of war and action movies does not make it true.  Back to reality.  Those of us who were/are in the military know how it is.  Those of us who have seen combat know how it is.  Just as in any large group, there are a few bad apples.  Luckily the instilling of honor, dedication, and duty does take hold in most service members.  If you don’t know and haven’t been there, don’t guess or BS just STFU.

TDoff-  The general was not a part of the administration.  He was the IG that was in charge or the investigation.  IGs are, by requirements, supposed to be impartial and independent.

Margaret-  Your statement of the “government” being the largest employer of illegals is wrong.  The largest employers of illegals are agriculture, services and construction industries.

Jessica- Famine/Starvation occurring in Africa and Asia would not go away if you threw 100 trillion dollars at it.  The number one reason why there is starvation in Asia and Africa, is the widespread corruption of fascist tyrannical socialist leftist faminelords. 

Enemy of the State-  The decline started in the late 80s/early 90s.  Well before the current administration.  The decline started when social engineering experiments and political correctness created an atmosphere of pettiness and CYA.

81407 by dan on 6/25 at 10:29 pm

A salute to the kids. Bravo. (we’ve done many of those letters at our school as well, but we haven’t had the pleasure of delivering them in person)

Excellent. (and yeah, of course he would say that we don’t torture.) That’s the standard template, and I’m sure it’s just coded into all of their speech patterns, because they all have had to say it so damn many times. All of the spokespeople, Condi of course, she set the tone on that one. The U.S. does not practice torture. It’s become a “mantra-lie” like so many others.

Right. So…what do THEY call it? That’s what gonzo, and cheney, and addington, and rumsfeld, and john yoo, and all of the other shadow team have been diligently working on all of these years. A way to keep their own asses out of jail, now that they’ve been practicing this torture business far and wide.

So, Cheney changes the laws, and george signs on the dotted line.

Unfortunate that the U.S. is no longer AMERICA. The principles of the founding fathers are spat upon and disgraced.

My feeling is that what I grew up believing in is gone ... corrupt politicians, judiciary, public servants appointed to protect “the people.”

The “people” no longer exist. We are simply “the stupid mod” not worthy of even the slightest human dignity.

Fascism has returned.

On Democracy Now! Seymour Hersh makes it clear that General Taguba was directed to confine his investigation to the lower level command even though he was aware that Rumsfeld was behind the torture.  Taguba’s comments reveal clearly that Rumsfeld was less than candid when he appeared before Congress as the Abu Ghraib scandal was breaking.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/06/19/1433252&mode=thread&tid=25

The article in today’s Washington Post, “Pushing the envelope on presidential power” ties the entire torture scandal to Richard Cheney and his chief of staff, David Addington, as part of their endless drive for dictatorial executive powers.  This lengthy article is a must read.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/cheney/chapters/pushing_the_envelope_on_presi/index.html

This from the article explains it all,

..“Taguba, describing the moment nearly three years later, said, sadly, “I thought they wanted to know. I assumed they wanted to know. I was ignorant of the setting.”..

I know EXACTLY how he feels, as do countless other public servants, who…CONTRARY to it just seeing it as a “job”, are in fact committed to integrity, and a personal work ethic, WHATEVER job they are on or in, and weather they are high up the ladder or not. Matter of fact, there are actually far more blue collar or working drones who are VERY much committed to whatever they do well, and we have lost so many these past 7 years, because of well….I don’t even have to say.

But, I was an early “purge”, and as it all turned out, it was indeed the best thing that could have happened, since I DID enjoy my work, and would most likely not have left on my own, after such a long time.

But the Corporations, (especially any of the large ones that are even within smelling distance of the Original Texas Cabal, (Halliburton, Exxon-Mobile, Chevron, Enron, Lockeed Martin, Bell Helicopter, Raytheon….I could go on, since there are so many more.

But, my point was that nearly as soon as The Coup of 2000 was pronounced, (and I lived in Texas at the time), we knew it was gonna get real ugly. Man oh man, it was brutal.

I was foolish enough to fight back, just on how BLATANTLY illegal it was, but it was just me against the Corporate lawyers, and I was forwared that it would be bloody.

And, it was pretty much the same thing with all of the “alleged” government agencies that are supposed to investigate this sort of thing. Not in Texas. Those offices, like the Dept of Labor, or the EEOC, or whatever…are all totally owned by the administration, and they do as they are told. I’ve seen so many of these corporations go out of their way, and spend literally oodles and oodles of investor funds, just to keep from paying a legitimate claim, that would actually cost less then all of the bullshit they do to get around it. And, if the victim doesn’t fall fast enough, they start piling on the retailiation. (Like Joseph and Valerie Wilson).

So, as the general said, “He thought they would want to know”, because just about ANY normal person or administration WOULD want to know. Unfortunately for him, he was uncovering exactly what they ALREADY knew, and had been trying to keep secret for all of that time. All of the torture stuff has been passionately put in place by Cheney and his favorite lawyers.

And, when george actually said pubically, that he was closing down all the secret prison/torture chambers and moving all of those people to Gitmo, Cheney had a “private meeting” with him, (you KNOW it had to be a routine ass-kicking) and so george eventually had to admit that they were still using them. Cheney will absolutely NOT back down on the torture. (Which is why he made his lawyers writea signing statement for the lastest Act that was pushed through by McKay a couple of years ago). Actually, Cheney’s lawyers writemost of the stuff, and george just signs whatever Cheney tells him to sign.

Anyway, Halliburton is now doing the same thing to this young kid…well, not that young. He’s like 36, and came to their accounting department in 2005 I think. He uncovered a serious scam in the accounting, that he eventually brought to the attention of the SEC. He just didn’t know any better. Had no idea who he was dealing with. And now, they’re making his life really miserable Because, as soon as he did that, Halliburton probably put out a contract on the guy. But yeah, it was right there in North Texas, same agencies, same Cabal.

These people are very scary, but it’s great to know that there are some of us still out there, who actually ARE chosing not to be slave to a corporation that has become an abuser. But for some, that’s a hard choice, when they have to be financially responsible for people other than themselves. (like kids)

A sad chapter, of a very sad book about our rapidly declining country. It is of course salutory that people like Gen Taguba have serveded. The armed services used to contain many such, who would put the correctness of their task* above their careers. Unfortunately many of these high integrity individuals have been pushed out of the service during the last six years. The quality of our armed services are rapidly declining as a result.

* To protect and defend the constitution.

General Taguba sir!

The people who assigned you this task, indeed from the Commander-in-Chief on down were’nt and never will be good enough to polish your brass.

You Sir are a true American hero. My respect Sir!

I guess there must be something wrong with me because AT THE FIRST HINT that my “superiors” were (a) not in the slightest interested in the truth, (b) deaf to anything they didn’t want to hear, (c) fully prepared to abandon all support for me should I “fail” to meet their expectations,
I would have bailed from that “job” in an instant!

Somehow we get this screwed up idea that our “careers” are so damned important! It doesn’t matter a whit, folks, how high up the corporate ladder you climb or what accolades you attract during your working years. There’s ALWAYS many who are far better than you, far worse than you, and on top of that, DAMNED FEW PEOPLE ON THIS PLANET GIVE A RAT’S ASS WHAT POSITION YOU HOLD OR WHAT YOU ACHIEVE.

After more than 65 years, it’s finally dawned on me that the ONLY thing that matters is that I’m having a really good time living my life in whatever fashion I choose. What does NOT matter is what most others think about me (intimates and family and true friends excepted, of course.) WHY? Because soon I will no longer exist, just as for billions of years, I never existed. NO ONE WILL EVER CARE THAT I WAS HERE.

If I were the General, I would have resigned, VERY PUBLICLY, at the first hint that criminals such as Rumsfeld & Co were not in FULL SUPPORT of my findings. Who the hell needs that kind of shit in their lives?

It’s so vital that we have members of the military who have so much integrity and refuse to have their voices stifled.  To date, the war has cost over $340 billion dollars—money which could have been spent much more wisely and with better end results.  It is estimated, for example, that the expenditure of a mere $19 billion would eliminate starvation and malnutrition worldwide.  In a time when the current defense budget is $522 billion, the goal of eradicating world hunger is clearly well within reach.  Thus, it is clear that the occupation of Iraq needs to end, and it needs to end now without regard to what this will do to United States interest in Iraq’s oil.  There are simply much more important issues that need to be addressed, and by avoiding these issues and adhering to his doomed quest for victory, Gonzales will continue to plummet in popularity.

Thanks to Taguba, Diogenes may, at long last, set down his lantern.

What a difference between this one man, and the sniveling cowards with whom he was forced to work.

I salute you, and thank you, General Taguba.

There are very few rays of sunshine and hope in these days of the disastrous Bush administration, but you are one.

The man was upholding his oath as an officer.

“He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself”.