Well, I’ve been reading these interesting and educational(?) exchanges between the lil mamzer, and Robert and Michael, and even the responses to me. (one of which I’d missed earlier).
#81916 by lilmamzer on 6/27 at 4:34 pm

• Now that we’ve cleared up that misconception, do you believe the Holocaust is not an event worthy of being remembered?

This misconception that she was “clearing up” for me, had to do with my misunderstanding of the 5.25 Jews that she was referring to, with the “never again” Zionist slogan. I thought she was talking about the Holocaust, and she was talking about the current population of pure Jews in the State of Israel, because she says that the “Arab terrists” have signed a charter to kill them all.

So, that’s how we somehow got to this latest question that she has for me; “Do I believe that the Holocaust is –not- an event worthy of being remembered?” It’s a contorted sort of a sentence, but the simple answer is of course not. First of all, just how in the hell is anybody allowed to FORGET it, even if they WANTED to?

The world has been paying the price for what Hilter and his Nazis did to the Jews ever since they did it. Hard to forget. And, ANY person, with ANY exposure to the U.S. or European educational system over the past 60 years, has certainly been well schooled on the importance of this “event”. And no, neither my own or any other opinions that I have seen or heard, have suggested that this “event” is not worthy of remembrance. So, it was a stupid question, but I will say again, that I have never suggested that. Indeed, the Holocaust should be remembered by the entire world, as a “never again” event. Never again, will the rest of the world standby, and allow a pack of psychopathic mad men to genocide an entire population of HUMANS, no matter what their ethnic, racial, or “class” identity happens to be.

But…alas, somehow the Zionists of the world haven’t considered that in relation to any “group”, other than themselves, since they have been involved in the exact same activity, (genocide and apartheid) ever since that event that she wants us to remember.

So yep, most of us DO in fact see the Holocaust as an event worth remembering, but obviously, the Zionists don’t get the same “message” from the memory. They mean “never again” should it happen to “us- the children of Israel”, but we can sure feel free to wipe out anybody else, and we’ve proven that, for the past 60 years. So there.

Aside from that, I actually do appreciate the Hebrew lesson, though t’was NOT lilmamzer that provided it. Rather, Fadel happened to give us that translation. I will remember it though lilmam, so go ahead, put it on the next exam as a “bonus” question, and I bet I’ll get it right.

Comment #82132 by ITW on 6/28 at 9:34 am

“You continually ignore that, and lie about other posters here.  It took you HOW LONG to finally figure out what Lilmamzer’s name meant?  All this time you’ve been hurling every conceivable vile combo you could think of and never figured out that it ALREADY meant “Little Bastard”.”

---------------------------------

ITW...Why don’t go to the “Welcome to “Palestine"” thread, by Robert Fisk and see where I got the details of what “MAMZER” meant in Hebrew… a “BASTARD”.

Check out comment #81971 by Fadel on 6/27 at 7:36 pm. He is a linguist and apparently he knows Hebrew.

So there you go...ITW. That is where I found out and when I found out about the meaning for “MAMZER” to be a “BASTARD”.

BTW, I don’t know any Hebrew.

You are getting more confused and making a fool of yourself. Its written all over your posts.

Take another vacation!

Comment #82262 by ITW on 6/28 at 8:11 pm.

ITW, I have traveled & worked in the Middle-East for 3 years. I saw many churches and synagogues all over the place. People went to worship on their own free will and out in the open. I saw it with my own eyes over & over.

Why don’t you stop your damn lies and start telling the truth for a change. You can’t even tell the truth to the people on this thread regarding your post “this will be my only post on this thread”.

When are you going to start telling the truth? You are “blowing a lot of hot wind.”

Here is something for you & the readers of truthdig to read regarding the Jewish community, rabbis, synagogue, businesses, fancy expensive homes...etc...in Syria. 

******************************************************
DISILLUSIONED SYRIAN JEWS ARE TRICKLING BACK HOME
By Kim Murphy TIMES staff writer
The Los Angeles Times,
World Report

“For me, I wanted to find out what kind of life I could live somewhere else, said the 29 year old teacher at the Jewish school in the heart of old Damascus. Kosher meat shops and fine-tailored clothing stores were up for sale. Gracious old houses--the classic Dama-scene townhouses hidden in the city’s ancient alleys, their intricate tile court-yards draped with shade trees and hanging vines were passed on to the few friends or family members who stayed behind, or sold to Muslims.

You must remember, Jatati said, ‘our people, our community used to have the best cars, the best shops right in the center of Damascus. One man had a shop worth 20 million Syrian pounds [about $450,000]. He sold it for 6 million [about $133,000]. You must realize his position.

Over the last 18 months, a population of perhaps 3,800 Syrian Jews has shrunk to just 300 in Damascus and 100 or so in the northeastern town of Kamishli. But now, over the last few weeks, the sound of sad farewells has given way to noise of welcoming celebrations. The shutters are opening on closed-up Jewish houses. Slowly but surely, many of those who left are finding that life in Brooklyn and France was not what they had hoped for, and they are coming home.

Yousef Jajati, head of the Syrian Jewish community, expects that many more will be returning over the next several months, reflecting a growing disillusionment with life abroad and reaffirming ties to a nation that has been their homeland for more than two millenia.”

http://www.inminds.co.uk/boycott-news-0056.html

Lilmamzer, an ideology that sets one race over all others, be it Nazi ideology which values Aryans uber alles or Zionist ideology that values Jews over all others is an ideology grounded in racism. 

If you could take off your ideological blinders for a moment, you would see, as I do, many striking similarities between the 20th Century Warsaw Ghetto and the 21st Century ghetto known as Gaza.  Both entail vast overcrowding within a relatively tiny geographic entity.  The walling in of the oppressed, and vastly underfed, masses within its boundaries.  Both ghetto’s were the product of racist ideologies which have produced ethnic cleansing.

I would grant you that the one distinction that remains is that Israel has never proposed a “final solution” to the Palestinian problem, though your fellow Zionist Ephraim “Lefty” Pesach came close to it when he suggested that Palestinian children did not have a right to live.  But the world should not have to wait for a “final solution” before condemning Israel’s form of apartheid.  The world has every right to insist that Israel, like all other nations, abide by U.N. Resolutions--242 in particular.

You can go on and on about alleged Palestinian atrocities just as Robert can go on an on about Israeli atrocities.  The bottom line is that the way to peace is within the grasp of the nation with the world’s fourth most powerful military force--Israel.  Too bad, its short-sighted leaders are more interested in expanding settlements and maintaining occupation than they are in the rule of law.

Ill-lie-bastard...this thread is not about synagogues, churches, mosques, temples and places of worship.

If people go to practice their religion in the US and they want to put flags in front of their place of worship, that is perfectly ok.

I don’t judge people according to their faith. There are good people of faith & bad ones everywhere on this earth.

I believe that ALL people should have equal rights. No one should be considered superior or inferior because of his/her faith/religion status.

IN ISRAEL IF A PERSON IS JEWISH, HE/SHE IS FIRST CLASS CITIZEN. IF A PERSON IS MOSLEM OR A CHRISTIAN, HE/SHE IS 3RD OR 4TH CLASS CITIZEN.

These are facts. I have seen the harsh treatments that the Israelis dish out on the Palestinians (Christians and Moslems). It is pure RACISM.

So “ill-lie-bastard” only a hard core infected zionist would approve of Israel’s racist and Apartheid policies/laws.

#82181 by Robert:

MAMZER(BASTARD)- Your posts are just pure zionist garbage. They are clusters of trash; you have nothing but IDF garbage to post. You could be their computer “garbage” nerd.

Yes, but do you think my posts are garbage?
----------------

Your IDF department must be paying by the # of posts and/or clusters? Your posts are NOT even worth a red cent!

If my posts aren’t worth a red cent, why are my Zionist-Racist IDF Conspiracy paychecks so damn big??? I think I’ll buy another Lexus tomorrow......
-----------------

Keep your zionist lies and propaganda clusters flowing “ill-lie-bastard”. You do glow with all sorts of zionist colors on this thread!

Will do, Robert.
So what are the “zionist colors”, anyway?
------------------

Just think how much information has been posted for the readers of truthdig to read and further their knowledge.

I’m thinking..........OK, done.
Yes, knowledge is a good thing.
-------------------

We have seen your garbage & lies!

Haven’t you said this before?
--------------------

Robert, is there a synagogue near where you live? You should go there and have a look around. Look in the main sanctuary, the big room where services are held. Look up to the front and you will see an American flag (if you go to a synagogue in the US, of course) next to an Israeli flag. Every synagogue in the country will have this. That is the ZIONIST Israeli flag. Representing the ZIONIST State of Israel. In every Jewish house of worship, in every state in the union, all over the world, in fact.

Is that garbage and lies?

Comment #82169

MAMZER(BASTARD)- Your posts are just pure zionist garbage. They are clusters of trash; you have nothing but IDF garbage to post. You could be their computer “garbage” nerd.

Your IDF department must be paying by the # of posts and/or clusters? Your posts are NOT even worth a red cent!

Keep your zionist lies and propaganda clusters flowing “ill-lie-bastard”. You do glow with all sorts of zionist colors on this thread!

You and your posts do serve a purpose. Just think how much information has been posted for the readers of truthdig to read and further their knowledge. The truth has NOT been coming from your zionist propaganda..."ill-lie-bastard"!

We have seen your garbage & lies!

#82159 by Robert:

These bloody terrorists were welcomed in the US as leaders from an Israeli people election process. The Israeli people chose their own terrorists!

You sound so miserable. So wrapped up in a seething rage.

What are you going to do to make things better?

#82159 by Robert:

The attacks came after Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas ordered the disbanding of all Palestinian armed groups.

This is the part that is notable. When Abbas orders all “Palestinian armed groups” (AKA Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al Aksa Martyr’s Brigade, etc) to disband, you can be sure nothing will happen.

Finally Israel hits back hard after taking so many rockets the past week.

June 27, 2007

Israeli Attack on Gaza Kills 13, Wounds 45

“In Israel and the Occupied Territories, the toll from Israel’s attack on Gaza Wednesday has reached thirteen dead, with another forty-five people wounded. The dead included a twelve-year old boy. Israeli tanks backed by warplanes pushed at least a mile into the Gaza Strip in the largest operation since Hamas seized full control earlier this month. The attacks came after Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas ordered the disbanding of all Palestinian armed groups. Abbas aide Yasser AbedRabbo said the Israeli attack will guarantee Palestinian militants reject Abbas’ order to put down their arms. Hamas has offered a long-term truce with Israel in return for a contiguous Palestinian state in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. But Israeli parliament member Ephraim Sneh said the attacks will continue until Hamas renounce violence and recognize Israel’s “right to exist.””
***********************************************
Just Casual News of the day:

13 Palestinian civilians dead, the dead included a 12 year old Palestinian boy.

Imagine if 13 Israelis got killed and 45 wounded, what do you think the news headlines would be?

Just a guess..."Palestinian terrorists, suicide bombers/Jihadists, massacre Jewish women & children...etc...” Just a guess...! Of course this will be non-stop all day!

-------------------------------------------

BTW, Israel elected four (4) prime ministers who were terrorists, belonged to zionist terrorist organizations:

Ben-Gorion, Menachem Begin, Yitzhak Shamir and Ariel Sharon.

Menachem Begin headed the IRGUN, the terrorist organization (1930-1940’s). The massacre at the King David Hotel in Jerusalem (1946) with 91 people killed and the massacre of the Palestinian village of Deir Yasin (1948) of more than 200 Palestinian women & children murdered by the Irgun.

The Israeli people elected these bloody murderous killers to be their government leaders. The blood of thousands of innocent civilians is dripping from their evil bloody hands.

These bloody terrorists were welcomed in the US as leaders from an Israeli people election process. The Israeli people chose their own terrorists!

#82139 by Michael Shaw:

Also how can acts of terror ever end since they have been a part of the world since the beginning of civilization?

Does France send suicide bombers into Spain to blow up Madrid city busses?

Does the United States fire rocket barrages over the border into Toronto, Canada?

Does Poland send teams of gunmen to shoot up cars on the German autobahns?

If the good people of France, the United States, and Poland can contain themselves, surely one has to believe that Palestinian Arabs also have the capacity, somewhere and somehow, to stop the terror emanating from their midsts.

#82139 by Michael Shaw:

So you honestly believe if the Palestinians accept Israel as a state all hostilities will end?

No, what I said was that all Arab belligerants must accept Israel as a neighbor with whom they will peacefully coexist, not just the Palestinian Arabs. The neighboring Arab stets have been using the Palestinian Arab issue as a tool for internal domestic reasons for decades. It pays for their respective regimes to keep the Palestinian issue alive rather than solving it to distract public attention from their own problems with governance.
--------------

Arafat was prepared to do that and yet now he is dead and the bloodshed continues.

Arafat was never prepared to make real peace with Israel. Remember the Karine-A? The only ones who push that tired line about Arafat ready to make a peace deal are those who maintain the fiction that it’s always the fault of Israel and never the Arabs. President Clinton and everyone else at Camp David have attested to the fact that Arafat would always weasel out of every chance make a deal. It became clear that his mission was “the struggle”, to use a carelessly benign euphemism, rather than achieving something tangible and historic for his people.

======================

THERE - FIXED IT

#82139 by Michael Shaw:

No, what I said was that <b>all Arab belligerants must accept Israel as a neighbor with whom they will peacefully coexist, not just the Palestinian Arabs. The neighboring Arab stets have been using the Palestinian Arab issue as a tool for internal domestic reasons for decades. It pays for their respective regimes to keep the Palestinian issue alive rather than solving it to distract public attention from their own problems with governance.
--------------

Arafat was prepared to do that and yet now he is dead and the bloodshed continues.

Arafat was never prepared to make real peace with Israel. Remember the Karine-A? The only ones who push that tired line about Arafat to make a peace deal are those who maintain the fiction that it’s always the fault of Israel and never the Arabs.

#82116 by Robert:

MAMZER in HEBREW means BASTARD. So your posting name means “Little Bastard”.

So glad my nom de plume (or should it be my nom de guerre?) meets with your approval. There is a method to my madness, you know.

We will teach you a little Hebrew yet.
--------------------

That really fits your zionist vile!

My “zionist vile” WHAT?

You can’t end a sentence on that adjective - it doesn’t make any sense.

Please revise and re-submit.

Lilmamzer 81915

So you honestly believe if the Palestinians accept Israel as a state all hostilities will end? What about those on both sides who see opportunity in the violence? Also how can acts of terror ever end since they have been a part of the world since the beginning of civilization?

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/05/12/arafat. israel/index.html

Arafat was prepared to do that and yet now he is dead and the bloodshed continues.

Hey ill-"mamzer"...someone on another thread has given the Hebrew translation to your posting name “MAMZER”.

MAMZER in HEBREW means BASTARD. So your posting name means “Little Bastard”. 

That really fits your zionist vile!

Comments #82014; #82017 by ITW on 6/27

ITW...your vile rhetoric is nothing but absolute rigid zionism to the core. Israel has annexed the expanded boundaries of East Jerusalem. Its boundaries are on the edges of Bethlehem. Pretty soon East Jerusalem’s city limits will reach Hebron and other Palestinian towns and villages. Not a bad land gobbling zionist scheme...eh!

International Law & UN Resolutions are there for a purpose whether you or anyone likes them or not. If Israel claims to be a democratic country & part of the international community, then it must abide by international law & UN Resolutions.

ITW...Who has killed more lives? Is it Hamas or Israel? To help you out with the numbers, check out my comment #81619 on 6/26. Hamas, the Palestinians are resisting Israel’s brutal/zionist occupation with what ever they have. May be you think or believe that Palestinian/Arab blood is not equal to Jewish blood...just like Israel’s IDF believes?

If Hamas had 50% of Israel’s weapons, would they have any suicide bombers or use that method? Now would they?

If Israel would dismantle its brutal & total (pre-June 1967) occupation of the Palestinian people would there be violence and killing to what has been going on in the last 2-3 decades? 

ITW...you left out the #’s of Israel’s military weapon arsenals...why? Just think if the Palestinians had what Israel has to defend their towns, cities, people, schools, women & children, their land, their freedom & dignity. Israel is occupying & brutalizing an unarmed Palestinian people.

What would you do if armed thugs were occupying your home and killed your wife & children and you had no weapons to defend yourself & family...no police...nothing?  What would you do? Can you think rationally?

Shouldn’t the Palestinian people have a normal life? Are they not entitled to have their Human Rights & FREEDOM?

#82073 by Ernest Canning:

Nahida, elsewhere on this site, I noted the many similarities between Gaza and the Warsaw Ghetto.  I noted how Ironic that the children and grandchildren of the victims of Nazi oppression have now become the oppressors, walling in the Palestinians within the overcrowded piece of real estate just as the Germans once walled in the Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto.

Zionism is not Nazism. The fact that someone (Ernest, Nahida, Fadel, Cyrena, Billy The Dick, “Robert”, take your pick of the litter) can compare an ideology espousing Jewish self-determination with an ideology obsessed with the elimination of Jews shows the extent to which the debate about human rights has lapsed into absurd, thoughtless slogans.

The Gazan Arabs have isolated themselves by choosing a genocidal terrorist group, Hamas, as their government. No nation on the planet would open its borders to Gazan Arabs if they were neighbors. To hold Israel to a standard no other nation would be held to is a case prima facie bigotry.

The power to change the dynamics of this situation rests with the people of Gaza. The nation of Israel is not accountable for the terrorism that emanates from within Gaza and poses a mortal threat not only to Israeli civilians but to Egyptians as well. I refer to the editorial columns I have excerpted from the Egyptian press in recent posts. Furthermore, the Arab brothers in Egypt want no part of Gaza either. Why won’t Egypt open her borders to the Gazan Arabs? Are they obligated to by any laws? Certainly not by the natural law of self-preservation.

GOOD NEWS FROM ISRAEL
Amid all the incessant chatter denigrating Israel and the idea of self-determination for the Jewish people in their own homeland, this little news item should remind the Israel-haters that she isn’t going anywhere.
===========================
Updated June 28, 2007 13:35
Aliya from North America Increasing
By JPOST.COM STAFF

The Aliyah Department of the Jewish Agency for Israel anticipates a five to 10 percent increase in aliya from North America by the end of 2007, marking the largest aliya from that region in a quarter century, the Jewish Agency reported Thursday.

In 2006, 3,200 Americans and Canadians moved to Israel and adopted Israeli citizenship, the highest figure since 1983.

On Monday, some 300 New York area residents who plan to move to Israel this summer will participate in a farewell ceremony hosted by the Jewish Agency in Manhattan, in conjunction with the Israel Consulate. Israel’s Ambassador to the UN Dan Gillerman is scheduled to address the group. Similar farewell events have already been been held this month in Toronto, Boston, Miami, and Rockville, Maryland.

“We are seeing a continued increase of olim of all streams and age groups,” said Boaz Herman, head of the Aliyah Department in North America. Herman noted that the Jewish Agency has registered immigrants ranging in age from several months, to elderly individuals in their nineties. Herman noted that 70% of immigrants from North America were under 35, and nearly 40% were under 18.

The oldest person thus far to make aliya in 2007 was a 94-year-old from Miami. A 90-year-old Holocaust survivor plans to move to Israel from New York this summer.
====================
“Aliya” is Hebrew whose literal meaning ‘to go up’ describes immigrating to Israel.

GOOD NEWS FROM ISRAEL
Amid all the incessant chatter denigrating Israel and the idea of self-determination for the Jewsih people int heir own homeland, this little news item should remind the Israel-haters that she isn’t going anywhere.
===========================
Updated June 28, 2007 13:35
Aliya from North America Increasing
By JPOST.COM STAFF

The Aliyah Department of the Jewish Agency for Israel anticipates a five to 10 percent increase in aliya from North America by the end of 2007, marking the largest aliya from that region in a quarter century, the Jewish Agency reported Thursday.

In 2006, 3,200 Americans and Canadians moved to Israel and adopted Israeli citizenship, the highest figure since 1983.

On Monday, some 300 New York area residents who plan to move to Israel this summer will participate in a farewell ceremony hosted by the Jewish Agency in Manhattan, in conjunction with the Israel Consulate. Israel’s Ambassador to the UN Dan Gillerman is scheduled to address the group. Similar farewell events have already been been held this month in Toronto, Boston, Miami, and Rockville, Maryland.

“We are seeing a continued increase of olim of all streams and age groups,” said Boaz Herman, head of the Aliyah Department in North America. Herman noted that the Jewish Agency has registered immigrants ranging in age from several months, to elderly individuals in their nineties. Herman noted that 70% of immigrants from North America were under 35, and nearly 40% were under 18.

The oldest person thus far to make aliya in 2007 was a 94-year-old from Miami. A 90-year-old Holocaust survivor plans to move to Israel from New York this summer.
====================
“Aliya” is Hebrew whose literal meaning ‘to go up’ describes immigrating to Israel.

More from the Egyptian press:
=============================

The Egyptian People Feel There is a Danger From Within

Chairman of the executive council of the Egyptian weekly Roz Al-Yousef, Karam Gabar, wrote in his column:

“Hamas is the Brotherhood of Palestine - the Palestine branch [of the Brotherhood]. They hold a place at the top of the list of members of the international organization of the banned group [i.e. the Muslim Brotherhood]. This means that this is a worldwide movement that does not recognize national identity, the flag, or the anthem. They do not recognize a homeland that must be defended and for which one must give one’s life. The homeland for them includes any plot of land on Earth on which the flag of the Brotherhood may be flown… Hamas is the same thing. Whoever does not share their faith is [considered] outside of Islam, and he is treated like one of the infidels…

“For Hamas and the Brotherhood, democracy is just dancing with Satan. The people who harbor the most enmity for democracy are those same groups who think that they have a divine mandate to rule and to implement the shari’a they see fit, and not Allah’s shari’a. Democracy for them is just a means to take power; afterwards, they whip democracy with lashes and behead it with the sword… No one can raise their head and speak up without becoming an infidel who must be punished. Their democracy is worse than dictatorship…

“In the history of Hamas and the banned [Muslim Brotherhood] there are incidents that are blacker than black: murders, torture… Hamas and the banned [Muslim Brotherhood] have no written law, [and both movements] do not recognize the this-worldly judicial system or secular judges.

“Their judicial system is speedy, and it has a special law [taken] from the worst exegetical texts from the days of the ridda, separatism, and darkness. The end of [their trials] - which last no longer than a few minutes - is swords, or a traitorous bullet, without fair trial. The banned [Muslim Brotherhood] recognizes the law of the country in cases where it serves their interests, and afterwards it rebels against the law, casts aspersion on the judicial system, and does not honor the legitimate [government] or the constitution…

“For the first time, the Egyptians felt dread when they saw the students of Al-Azhar University conducting combat displays with the same methods as Hamas, and in the same clothing, with the same slogans and tools. The public felt the danger growing under [its] skin, flowing in [its] blood, and touching on [its] nerves - a real danger flowing from the depths, and not something imported from abroad…”

================

You know it’s bad when the OTHER Arabs start recognizing Hamas for who and what they are.

More from the Egyptian press:
=============================

The Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt is Trying to Reproduce Hamas’ Experience in Gaza

Tariq Hasan, a columnist for the Egyptian government daily Al-Ahram, wrote:

“In Egypt there are those who are trying to reproduce what Hamas did in Gaza… For anyone who has the slightest doubt about this and wants proof, it is sufficient to consider statements by Brotherhood representatives in parliament… They said that Egypt waved the Zionist flag, despite the people’s opposition to this. This means that Egypt, like the Palestinian Authority, deserves that a revolution should take place in it.

“The Brotherhood, like Hamas, does not recognize the legitimacy of the parliament that ratified the peace treaty with Israel, nor the legitimacy of the state that ratified these agreements, since [in its view] it is a traitorous state that works for foreign interests and that does not represent its people. From these statements we understand that the Hamas problem is not [limited to] just Gaza, but it is also in Egypt, and that the Brotherhood holds the same positions and uses the same ideas and statements with which Hamas conducted a putsch against the [legitimate] government, and through which it declared Gaza a rebel region under its rule.

“Here in Egypt the Brotherhood brought out the masked militias in Al-Azhar University, and there in Gaza Hamas put them to use. Here they changed the Egyptian flag and removed the eagle of the Republic from it, and there they took down the Palestinian flag and waved the green flag of Hamas. What can we expect?…

“In light of this severe threat, it is not enough for us to say to people ‘look at what Hamas did in Gaza’ in order to warn them about the Brotherhood in Egypt. We must learn the lessons without delay.

“Hamas won the game it was playing, and the Brotherhood is doing the [same] thing. There, there was a government that allowed them to take part in elections without their recognizing the legitimacy of that Authority [i.e. the PA] and without their being made to accept the state’s constitution and its laws. Hamas used the elections and democracy as an instrument [in order to take power], and then they turned the matter over to the armed militias in order to conduct a putsch against everyone.

“Here, there are [Muslim] Brothers who do not recognize the legitimacy of the state and oppose the constitution and the law, and despite this, we find people who say that [the Brotherhood] represents them and speaks in their name in parliament… Whoever ignores this [matter] will bring us into the gates of hell that we saw in Gaza…”

From the Egyptian press:
=======================

Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood are Dragging the Entire People to Suicide

In his daily column, the editor of the Egyptian daily Al-Gomhouriya Muhammad ‘Ali Ibrahim wrote:

“Hamas is the Palestinian side of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood, which has become the heart and the brain of the world organization of the Brotherhood, and whose Supreme Guide has become the one who motivates, advises, and guides all of the Islamist currents in the world…

“I imagine myself a Palestinian living in Gaza, or an Egyptian living here [in Egypt] if, God forbid, the Brotherhood had a majority in parliament. First, if what Hamas did against Fatah were to happen anywhere in the Arab homeland… the result would be, quite simply, that people would not receive salaries, schooling, [medical] treatment, or services…

“I imagine that when Hamas considers murdering Mahmoud Abbas, it will in no way ask the people, since it [already] received a mandate at the ballot box… It is possible that Hamas will receive orders from Iran and will carry them out, and then it will drag the region into a destructive total war. It is also possible that Tehran will convince the Hamas leaders to repeat Hizbullah’s experience…

“In short, the victory of Hamas and the Brotherhood at the ballot box does not mean that they are politicians and that they are capable of running the state, with all of the political [implications] and the responsibility that this entails. All that Hamas is capable of doing is to be crack troops of suicide. Unfortunately, however, they are not committing suicide alone. They are forcing the entire people to commit suicide, and I fear that this is the same tactic and path that the Brotherhood in Egypt is taking…”

#82057 by nahida:

Israeli ex-parliament speaker calls Israel a “Zionist Ghetto”, compares it to Nazi Germany

So what?

Ramsey Clark, former Attorney General of the United States, turned into a far-left whack-job, just like this Burg character. He even ended up going to Baghdad to defend Saddam Hussein. Clark hates his own country as much as Burg seems to hate his. All it proves is that both the US and Israel are open and secure enough in their freedoms of expression and dissent to put up with assholes like these Burg and Clark.

I actually like seeing crap like this because it reminds me of the vast difference in culture between the US, Israel, and most European countries on the one hand, and repressive, authoritarian regimes (including all Arab countries with the possible exception of Lebanon) where dissenting voices are crushed.

Thank you Nahida - you have served the cause of freedom, albeit in an unintended way.

Nahida, elsewhere on this site, I noted the many similarities between Gaza and the Warsaw Ghetto.  I noted how Ironic that the children and grandchildren of the victims of Nazi oppression have now become the oppressors, walling in the Palestinians within the overcrowded piece of real estate just as the Germans once walled in the Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto.

But there is another troubling analogy.  Just as the Nazis found Jews willing to act as policemen who would aid in the oppression of their own people, now I see Fatah becoming the surrogate policemen of Israel and the U.S.  The places and peoples may change but the tactics of fascisim, whether German or Zionist, remain the same.

By the way, do you know what the Nazis called the resistance movements throughout occupied Europe?  They called them “terrorists.”

Israeli ex-parliament speaker calls Israel a “Zionist Ghetto”, compares it to Nazi Germany

Article links at:

Haaretz - Leaving the Zionist ghetto

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/868385.html

Haaretz - Burg: Defining Israel as a Jewish state is the key to its end

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/867986.html
--------------------------------------------

Avraham Burg, ex-speaker of the Knesset (Israeli parliament) and head of the Jewish Agency (responsible for bringing Jews from all over the world to Palestine) calls Israel, a “Zionist Ghetto” and compares it to “Nazi Germany”.

Further goes on to say that any Israeli who can leave Israel, should do so before it’s too late, for Israel is an utopia gone wrong. Almost calls the Israelis, paranoid blood-thirsty Judeo-Nazis.

He himself has immigrated to France and has acquired French nationality recently.

Avraham Burg, says “to define the State of Israel as a Jewish state is the key to its end. A Jewish state is explosive. It’s dynamite.”
In an interview in Israeli Haaretz Weekend Magazine, he said that he is in favor of abrogating the Law of Return and calls on everyone who can to obtain a foreign passport.

Burg, who was interviewed on the occasion of the publication of his book “Defeating Hitler” said “the strategic mistake of Zionism was to annul the alternatives. Israeliness has only body; it doesn’t have soul.”

“Judaism always prepared alternatives,” says Burg, who three years after leaving Israeli politics is now a citizen of France and a successful businessman.
“Just as there was something astonishing about German Jewry, in America, too, they created the potential for something astonishing. They created a situation in which the goy can be my father and my mother and my son and my partner,” Burg says.
His book ruminates about Israel and Zionism, compares Israel and Germany, harshly criticizes Eichmann’s hanging, reflects on Judaism in the age of globalization and remembers his father’s house.

Burg said he started his book in mourning for the loss of Israel. “During most of the writing the book’s title was ‘Hitler Won.’ But slowly I discovered the layer of not everything being lost. And I discovered my father as a representative of German Jewry that was ahead of its time. These two themes nourished the book from beginning to end.”

--------------------------------------------

[...]

Shavit: What you are saying is that the problem is not just the occupation. In your eyes, Israel as a whole is some sort of horrible mutation.

Burg: “The occupation is a very small part of it. Israel is a frightened society. To look for the source of the obsession with force and to uproot it, you have to deal with the fears. And the meta-fear, the primal fear is the six million Jews who perished in the Holocaust.”

[...]

Shavit: We are being dragged into carrying out war crimes?

Burg: “I have no other way to see it. Especially if there is no horizon of dialogue. The Israelis are very calm. One more Arab, one less Arab. Ya’allah, it’s alright. But in the end, the pile grows high. The number of innocent people is so large that it can no longer be contained. And then our explosion and their explosion and the world’s will be infinite. I see it happening before my eyes. I see the pile of Palestinian bodies crossing the wall we erected so as not to see it.”

[...]

Shavit: You believe Israel should be relieved of nuclear weapons.

Burg:”Of course, of course. The day the Bomb is dismantled will be the most important day in Israel’s history. It will be the day on which we get such a good deal with the other side that we will no longer need the Bomb. That has to be our ambition.”

#82015 by cyrena on 6/27 at 10:26 pm

Cyrena - I’m beginning to wonder if you’re capable of posting anything factual at all.

<<there was a rash of suicide bombings back in the early to mid 1980’s>>

Not true.  The first Palestinian sucide attack on Israeli soil was 1989.  Palestinian suicide attacks against Israel didn’t start in earnest until after the Oslo accords in 1993.

<<they had SINCE been more controlled, under Hamas, because I know that to be a fact.>>

But unfortunately, it’s not a fact.  The 2nd intifada (2000) spawned far more Palestinian suicide attacks than the first.  Attacks have dropped in the last couple of years mainly due to the effectiveness of the West Bank wall Israel is building along with its various security measures.  My guess is that Hamas is also preoccupied with internal political struggles against Fatah since its electoral win - but it has nevertheless tried to mount suicide attacks and failed (thus the new focus on un-targeted rocket attacks).

And we know the wall has been effective because there have been no successful suicide attacks from Gaza, where a completed wall has been in place for some time.

<<In other words, the real instances of a suicide bombers from Gaza or the West Bank, INSIDE Israel’s soverign terriotory, have been minimal in the past 20 years, or at least sporatic.>>

Again, as I show above, that’s just plain wrong on all counts.  a) There never were any from Gaza, and b) there’ve been more suicide bombs inside Israel since 2000 than all the years before, combined.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hamas_suicide_attacks

Of course if you want to dispute wikipedia, then be my guest - just post a legitimate source that backs up your claims and I’ll accept it.

The rest of your post was a rather standard ad hominem attack on lilmamzer which I can neither confirm or dispute… other than that the level of your humor would make you quite popular around junior school to early high schoolers.

What continues to amuse me is a) your apparent inability to research even the most basic and public facts, and b) your glee in demonstrating this repeatedly and at great length.  This isn’t a personal attack on you - it’s an observation from your many posts.

If you were truly “on the ground” in that region at some point, then I would wonder exactly what you were doing… because it appears you learned less than those of us who have never been there.  I’m glad you finally found the Hamas charter, though you’ve dismissed its central crux as “standard language” for that group (you know, that standard clause about the jihad based anhialation of Israel being their central purpose and all)… I’m sure that point was nothing to worry about… just the fine print.

No lilmamzer,

I didn’t follow the links, but ONLY because you had already posted some of these figures in the body of your post, and I knew THOSE numbers were WRONG, so why would I have followed the linK. That doesn’t make any sense. Time is precious, and I don’t need to look at stuff that I’ve seen with my own eyes.

Now, I did NOT say, that there have been NO suicide bombings in Israel (on Israel’s actual property) in 20 years. I did not say that. What I DID say, was that there was a rash of suicide bombings back in the early to mid 1980’s, and that they had SINCE been more controlled, under Hamas, because I know that to be a fact. In other words, the real instances of a suicide bombers from Gaza or the West Bank, INSIDE Israel’s soverign terriotory, have been minimal in the past 20 years, or at least sporatic. It usually takes them several years of broken and empty promises by the Irsraelis, before they get desperate enough to pull off one of the types of “suicide bombings”, and they don’t just pull them off as easily as you are claiming. The Israeli security is so tight they simply cannot access these locations that you’re making claims to.

Now, here’s the deal, just so we know what we think we know. I’ve been on the ground, in the flesh, and for extended periods of time, in Israel, the Palestinian territories, and a few of the surrounding nation states. I have never been to Iran. The rest...yes. I KNOW what my eyes have seen from the air, and on the ground. I have watched the changes, and I have documented the changes. And, I continue to read Academic journals by other scholars, who have been there even more recently than I have.

And, at this point in time, I still trust my own eyes and ears better than I trust your links.

I think you’re in a psychotic meltdown, and that you should avail yourself of whatever services might be available to you. Generally, it’s not cureable, but can be controlled with meds, electroshock treatment, and other more advanced therapies that are becoming available.

So, instead of working that Bin Laden stock into your budget, use the money on a good psychiatrist.
You’ll be glad you did. I’ll hold down the fort for you while you’re being treated, and I’ll make sure those terrists don’t do anything bad to Israel.

Comment #81940 by ITW on 6/27 at 6:18 pm

ITW, didn’t you just come back from a vacation? Hmm...you sound like you may need another long one.

First it was “Ill-lie-mamzer” who was gone for a while, then you ITW, and now its “lefty-ephraim”. Very interesting...guard duty!

ITW, since you know so much about Israel and this Hamas so called charter...etc…

Didn’t the PLO also have a charter and it was revised in the early 1990’s? Didn’t the PLO recognize Israel as a state with the pre-June 1967 as its borders?

What did the PLO & the Palestinian people get for their charter revision & the recognition of Israel?

Where is the PEACE that Israel keeps promising the Palestinians?

Shouldn’t Israel also be asked to recognize a Palestinian state which should include Gaza, West Bank and East Jerusalem, as per UN Resolutions 242, 338, 194, and the International World Court ruling of July 2004?

Why does Israel keeps building new “Jewish Settlements”, for Jews only, in the Occupied Territories? Isn’t that against International Law & the Geneva Charter?

The United States went to war and attacked Iraq on the basis that Iraq refused to honor UN Resolutions. Why should Israel be immune from abiding by & honoring UN Resolutions?

While I am at it ITW, can you provide for us, in approximate numbers, what Israel has in regards to military hardware, since you seem to be soooo concerned with Hamas’s charter?

Israel Military U.S. Made Hardware:

# of tanks, # of fighter jets, # of bombers, # of Black Hawks, # of gunships, # of cannons, # of submarines, # of destroyers, # of missiles, # of heavy army personnel carriers, # of nuclear missiles / bombs (>200), amount of chemical & biological weapons stockpiles, # of military troops/reserves and other pertinent sophisticated military information for Israel?

*************************************************

Guess what Hamas has in regards to the above...Israel’s arsenals?

Well...since Gaza & Hamas are under the watchful eyes of Israel’s IDF sophisticated surveillance & satellite systems 24 hours per day for 365 days per year...I just might as well just guess at Hamas’ arsenal(s):

- A few hundred hand guns, ancient rifles and AK-47s.

- Kasam “firecrackers” homemade rockets.

- Lots of rocks & stones.

Can you think of anything else that Israel may NOT be able to handle in regards to Hamas’s weapons? Israel controls their movements from the sky, sea and land...right?

Do you that Israel can win against hamas’ military hardware?

So there you go. If Israel really wants genuine and permanent peace with the Palestinians, the road to peace is clearly there.

What Israel really wants is all Palestinian lands WITHOUT the Palestinian people...that is what it wants! The Palestinians are just in ZIONISM’s way!

ISRAEL & ITS ZIONISM WOULD VERY MUCH LIKE TO GET RID OF THE PALESTINIANS. THEY WANT THEM TO GO TO JORDAN AND LEAVE FOREVER. DOES THAT RING A BELL...ITW? HAVE YOU HEARD THAT FROM ISRAEL’S FORMER LEADERS?

#81940 by Inherit The Wind:

Plus, we have Cyrena making up “facts” as she goes along--makes Ann Coulter look like an amateur.  Did you catch her latest BS? There haven’t been any Palestinian suicide bombers in 2 decades.

Yeah, we caught her latest BS. You can’t make this shit up - you have to read her posts to believe someone would actually put herself out there like that. I find myself looking forward to her next contribution just for the amusement value.

By the way - have you ever read any Michael Totten? He’s an independent journalist/blogger who spends a lot of time in Lebanon, Kurdistan, Iraq, as well as some time in Israel and the territories as well.

He thinks and writes clearly and dispassionately. He has good guest bloggers sit in for him when he’s on assignment, and the message board has some really good, informed debate. Much livelier, more engaging, and thought-provoking than this place. Knowledge beats juvenile name-calling any day, and you’ll see a difference.

Check it out:

http://www.michaeltotten.com/

ITW, if you are referring to me, to Robert, to Cyrena, to Tony Wicher or to Michael Shaw your latest post is nothing less than shameful.  Presenting an objective analysis of the impact of Israel’s forty-year, illegal occupation or a critique of the racist and fascist underpinnings of the doctrine known as Zionism does not make one an “anti-Semite.” Your conflating a call to end the illegal occupation into a call that “Jews lay down their arms” is flat-out dishonest. 

The accurate quotes by Nahida about the statements made by Israel’s “Founding Fathers” reveals that the greatest threat to Jews living in Israel is neither Hamas nor Fatah, but the Zionists themselves for their racist philosophy is the greatest obstacle to Jews and Arabs living in peace and harmony in a truly democratic society. 

The statement by David Ben Gurion that he would prefer to save only half the Jewish children from the Holocaust by transporting them to Israel to saving them all by transporting them to England exposes the Zionists not only as fanatics but traitors to their own people.

And, judging from the ideologically blinded posts of you and your Zionist fellow travelers, one can only conclude that you have no sense of shame.

#81931 by cyrena:

I did in fact read the Hamas Charter.....And yes, I did see a few lines of what I considered to be the typical rhetoric of an Arab resistance group, and all the rest was pretty benign.

Typical rhetoric? That doesn’t speak well of Arab “resistance groups”, does it? What are they “resisting”, anyway? Old people commuting on city busses? Teenagers eating pizza? And you think the Hamas covenant is benign? Didyou follow the link I provided to the list of suicide bombings in Israel by Hamas and it’s Arab terrorist allies? That’s your benign Hamas covenant put into practice, turning Israeli civilians into corpses as a matter of policy. If that’s benign, what does Arab malignancy look like?
-----------------

Instead, Israel has since INCREASED the settlements in the West Bank

Arabs live in Israel as citizens, but Jews have to be ethnically-cleansed from areas that have been traditionally and historically Jewish for thousands of years?
-----------------

...and has continued to imprison most Gazans

False. Gazan Arabs can move as freely in and out of Gaza as their fellow Egyptians care to allow them. Israel is under no obligation to allow any Gazan Arabs into Israel. Why should they? The Gazan Arabs have declared their desire to destroy Israel by electing Hamas. Israel owes them nothing.
-----------------

...not to mention the non-Jewish population of Israel, that they still allow to “be” there, even though they have no rights...

False. That’s just empty, inflammatory rhetoric.
-----------------

...and whomever is not imprisoned, they just roll over with tanks.

Yes, if there are any non-Jews who are still not in prison, anywhere in the country, the army just rolls over them with tanks. Again, empty, inane, inflammatory rhetoric.
-----------------

I figure if I mosey over to my neighbors house, and steal their shit, and lock up their familiy members, they will rightfully come after me, and that they probably will wanna kick my ass. Even if they don’t kick my ass, they’re gonna want their stuff back, and they’ll demand that I free their family members. If I don’t, it’s a guarantee that they’re gonna kick my ass. Ergo, I wouldn’t think of doing it. It’s not worth it.

Whatever.

Lilmamzer,

I did in fact read the Hamas Charter, from both of the sources that you provided. (I prefer the yale website, but the other one was fine as well). And yes, I did see a few lines of what I considered to be the typical rhetoric of an Arab resistance group, and all the rest was pretty benign. So, I already told you that I acknowledged that part of their rhetoric, and I also told you that it doesn’t begin to sound as insane as the Zionist stuff. It just doesn’t.

And, I still can’t get you to give any sort of acknowledgement to International Law, since the UN has confirmed as recently as 2004, that Israel needs to get back to her OWN “existance”. Instead, Israel has since INCREASED the settlements in the West Bank, and has continued to imprison most Gazans, (not to mention the non-Jewish population of Israel, that they still allow to “be” there, even though they have no rights), and whomever is not imprisoned, they just roll over with tanks.

And, if Israelis are dying from stone thowing, (by suicide bombers or otherwise), maybe they would be safer if they weren’t ALL OVER the damn place, instead of in their own area that was so generously gifted to them by the rest of the world.

I figure if I mosey over to my neighbors house, and steal their shit, and lock up their familiy members, they will rightfully come after me, and that they probably will wanna kick my ass. Even if they don’t kick my ass, they’re gonna want their stuff back, and they’ll demand that I free their family members. If I don’t, it’s a guarantee that they’re gonna kick my ass. Ergo, I wouldn’t think of doing it. It’s not worth it.

Convent Damage Unsettles Gaza Christians

Gaza Christians Fear Persecution After Convent Damaged During Hamas Takeover, Look to Leave
----------------------------------
GAZA - Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - The ransacking of a Catholic convent and an adjacent Rosary Sisters school during Hamas’ sweep to power broke more than wood and plaster. It signaled the end of a relatively peaceful, if sometimes uneasy, relationship between Gaza’s 1.4 million Muslims and 3,000 Christians.

Despite promises of protection by Hamas leaders, Christians fear more attacks, and some say they want to leave. Gaza’s flock already has been hit hard by emigration in recent years, and a new exodus could remove what is left of one of the Arab world’s oldest Christian communities.

“We don’t trust them. Our time is coming,” said a Greek Orthodox Christian, who in the current climate of fear asked not to be identified.

No one has claimed responsibility for damaging the convent and school, and Hamas vehemently denied involvement.

However, signs point to Muslim extremists rather than ordinary vandals. A statue and picture of the Virgin Mary - who is held in high esteem by Muslims - were left untouched.

[…] Missak suggested the vandals were acting on their own. “They were ignorant people. They don’t represent all Muslims,” he said.

Other Christians blame Hamas - at the least for not preventing the destruction. One woman said only Hamas militants could enter the convent during the fighting, when Gaza’s civilians were pinned down in their homes.

#81913 by cyrena:

I don’t want to hear anymore about suicide bombers in Israel again either. They did that 2 decades ago, and Hamas was the only organization able to get some control over it. Nobody is suicide bombing Israel now

Hamas “got some control”? Hamas creates, recruits, trains, and arms suicide-bombers . It’s what Hamas does.

<u>A Few Examples:</b>

Mar 31, 2002 - 14 people were killed and over 40 injured in a suicide bombing in Haifa, in the Matza restaurant of the gas station near the Grand Canyon shopping mall. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack. The victims: Suheil Adawi, 32, of Turan; Dov Chernevroda, 67, of Haifa; Shimon Koren, 55; his sons Ran, 18, and Gal, 15, of Haifa; Moshe Levin, 52, of Haifa; Danielle Manchell, 22, of Haifa; Orly Ofir, 16, of Haifa; Aviel Ron, 54; his son Ofer, 18, and daughter Anat, 21, of Haifa; Ya’akov Shani, 53, of Haifa; Adi Shiran, 17, of Haifa; Daniel Carlos Wegman, 50, of Haifa. Carlos Yerushalmi, 52, of Karkur, died on April 1 of wounds sustained in the attack.

May 7, 2002 - 15 people were killed and 55 wounded in a crowded game club in Rishon Lezion, southeast of Tel-Aviv, when a suicide bomber detonated a powerful charge in the 3rd floor club, causing part of the building to collapse. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

June 18, 2002 - 19 people were killed and 74 were injured - six seriously - in a suicide bombing at the Patt junction in Egged bus no. 32A traveling from Gilo to the center of Jerusalem. The bus, which was completely destroyed, was carrying many students on their way to school. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack. The victims: Boaz Aluf, 54, of Jerusalem; Shani Avi-Zedek, 15, of Jerusalem; Leah Baruch, 59, of Jerusalem; Mendel Bereson, 72, of Jerusalem; Rafael Berger, 28, of Jerusalem; Michal Biazi, 24, of Jerusalem; Tatiana Braslavsky, 41, of Jerusalem; Galila Bugala, 11, of Jerusalem; Raisa Dikstein, 67, of Jerusalem; Dr. Moshe Gottlieb, 70, of Jerusalem; Baruch Gruani, 60, of Jerusalem; Orit Hayla, 21, of Jerusalem; Helena Ivan, 63, of Jerusalem; Iman Kabha, 26, of Barta; Shiri Negari, 21, of Jerusalem; Gila Nakav, 55, of Jerusalem; Yelena Plagov, 42, of Jerusalem; Liat Yagen, 24 of Jerusalem; Rahamim Zidkiyahu, 51, of Jerusalem.

July 31, 2002 - Nine people - four Israelis and five foreign nationals - were killed and 85 injured, 14 of them seriously, when a bomb exploded in the Frank Sinatra student center cafeteria on the Hebrew University’s Mt. Scopus campus. The explosive device was planted inside the cafeteria, which was gutted by the explosion. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack. The victims: David Diego Ladowski, 29, of Jerusalem; Levina Shapira, 53, of Jerusalem; Marla Bennett, 24, of California (US); Benjamin Blutstein, 25, of Pennsylvania (US); Dina Carter, 37, of Jerusalem (US); Janis Ruth Coulter, 36, of Massachusetts (US); David Gritz, 24, of Jerusalem (US-France). Daphna Spruch, 61, of Jerusalem died of her wounds on August 10. Revital Barashi, 30, died of her wounds on August 13
======================

There are so many dozens of suicide bombings from Hamas, there isn’t space in a single post to list them all.

Hamas wrote its covenant with emphasis on killing the Jews, and these attacks are how they put their ideology into practice.

#81913 by cyrena:

I don’t want to hear anymore about suicide bombers in Israel again either. They did that 2 decades ago, and Hamas was the only organization able to get some control over it. Nobody is suicide bombing Israel now

Two decades ago?

More than 100 “major” suicide bombings have been carried out since September 2000.

Here’s just two from last year:

Mar 30, 2006 - Rafi Halevy, 63, and his wife Helena, 58, of Kedumim, Re’ut Feldman, 20, of Herzliya, and Shaked Lasker, 16, of Kedumim were killed when a suicide bomber hitchhiker disguised as an ultra-Orthodox yeshiva student detonated his explosive device in a private vehicle near the entrance to Kedumim.

<u>Apr 17, 2006 - Eleven people were killed and over 60 wounded in a suicide bombing during the Passover holiday at the Rosh Ha’ir shawarma restaurant, near the old central bus station in Tel Aviv. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the attack. The victims: Philip Balhasan, 45, of Ashdod; Rozalia Beseneyi, 48, and Pirosca Boda 50, of Romania; Marcel Cohen, 73, of Nice, France; Ariel Darhi, 31, of Bat Yam; Victor Erez, 60, of Givatayim; Binyamin Haputa, 47, of Lod; David Shaulov, 29, of Holon; Lily Yunes, 42, of Oranit. Lior Anidzar, 26, of Tel Aviv died of his wounds on May 13. Daniel Wultz, 16, of Weston, Florida (USA) died on May 14.</b>

A complete list can be found here:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Terrorism/ victims.html

Nobody is suicide bombing in Israel now? Do you honestly believe it is from lack of trying on the Arabs’ part?

Why do you think there is a security barrier between the narrow coastal plain of Israel and the hills of Judea and Shomron? It is an effective anti-terrorist method, along with the checkpoints along roads, which, although politically unpopular, do in fact save Israeli lives.

#81913 by cyrena: