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‘President’ Lieberman: A Cautionary Tale

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Posted on Jun 12, 2007
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AP Photo / Karim Kadim, file

Joe, we hardly knew ye:  The evolution of Sen. Lieberman (Ind.-Conn.) may have surprised some of his earlier supporters.

By Robert Scheer

What if Al Gore had won the 2000 presidential election but died in office? Would President Joe Lieberman have been worse than George W. Bush? His recent actions suggest that he could have descended even lower in his illogical and immoral responses to the tragedy of 9/11. Although now an independent, Lieberman provides a cautionary tale for folks who talk of backing “any Democrat” who can win.

At a time when even President Bush has recognized the need for negotiations with Iran in order to stabilize Iraq, where disciples of Tehran’s ayatollahs have risen to power, thanks to the U.S. occupation he fervently supports, Lieberman urges war with Iran. “I think we’ve got to be prepared to take aggressive military action against the Iranians to stop them from killing Americans in Iraq,” he told CBS on Sunday, “and to me, that would include a strike over the border into Iran.”

He never learns. This is the joker who bought the Ahmad Chalabi line that invading Iraq would result in a pro-West and pro-Israel democracy with Chalabi (who later failed to get 1 percent of the vote) playing Iraq’s George Washington. For five years before 9/11, Lieberman pushed funding for Chalabi’s exile organization to lead the overthrow of Saddam Hussein. Lieberman was also a principal author of the 1998 Iraq Liberation Act, which threw $100 million in Chalabi’s direction.

Even as late as June 2004, when Chalabi was exposed by the United States as a spy for Iran, Lieberman continued to profess admiration for the architect of a policy that replaced the secular despot of Iraq with Shiite fundamentalists trained in Iran. “I met Dr. Chalabi and others of the Iraqi National Congress,” he said in a speech defending Chalabi after U.S. intelligence uncovered his contacts with Iranian spies. “It’s fair to say I found them to be patriotic Iraqis. Their counsel to us was important.”

In fact, Chalabi’s “counsel” concerning Iraq’s WMD program and ties to al-Qaida turned out to be totally fraudulent and as embarrassing to the United States as it was convenient to Iran’s plans to overthrow Hussein. Lieberman’s statement in support of Chalabi came two months after the National Security Agency reported that Chalabi informed Iranian agents that the United States had broken Tehran’s encryption code. At the time of the revelation, Chalabi traveled freely within Iran, where he maintained a residence. Despite Lieberman’s warm endorsement of Chalabi, “a person of strength, principle and real commitment,” the Bush administration ended his monthly $340,000 stipend.

Having fallen for the Iranian plot to gain control over Iraq, Lieberman now seeks to undo the damage by invading Iran. He is apparently unaware of public warnings that key Shiite leaders in Iraq would take up arms again in support of their co-religionists across the border. Indeed, the Iranian arms being smuggled into Iraq that Lieberman complains about are going to the Shiite militias dominating America’s surrogate government in Baghdad.

Bush seems to grasp this reality, which is why the United States is now negotiating with the Iranian ambassador in Baghdad, leaving Lieberman to play the role of a hawkish critic of an administration he apparently feels has lost its enthusiasm for yet another disastrous invasion. This is a man whom leading Democrats, including Bill Clinton, supported in his primary campaign against an intelligent Democrat who sought to end the Iraq nightmare.

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But, as those “any Democrat is better” apologists will likely argue, Lieberman, as president, would have conducted the occupation in a more measured manner, sensitive to civil liberties and other enlightened concerns. That conceit was also smashed on Monday, when Lieberman voted against holding Attorney General Alberto Gonzales accountable for sabotaging the federal judiciary. At a time when Arlen Specter and six other Republicans voted to advance a no-confidence vote, Lieberman supported the attorney general, who may well be remembered most for his consistent support of torture.

No surprise there, given Lieberman’s previous apologies for this administration’s assault on the rule of law. Indeed, even after the revelations of torture at Abu Ghraib, Lieberman was able to find a bright spot, noting that “those who were responsible for killing 3,000 Americans on Sept. 11, 2001, never apologized.”

Great. So we are now to be comforted by exceeding the standard set by Osama bin Laden. Lieberman also failed to acknowledge in his statement that the perpetrators of 9/11 had nothing whatsoever to do with Iraq before the invasion. The same can be said for Iran—but that does not quiet Lieberman’s cry for wider war.

Click here to check out Robert Scheer’s book,
“The Great American Stickup: How Reagan Republicans and Clinton Democrats Enriched Wall Street While Mugging Main Street.”


Keep up with Robert Scheer’s latest columns, interviews, tour dates and more at www.truthdig.com/robert_scheer.



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By cann4ing, June 20, 2007 at 11:20 pm Link to this comment

Oops!  That’s “Hamas holds the high cards.”  Mea Culpa!

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By cann4ing, June 20, 2007 at 11:18 pm Link to this comment

To Tony Wicher, Robert, Fadel, Atheo and other truthdiggers who are prepared to confront Zionist propaganda with a dispassionate recitation of facts, our resident Zionist fruitcakes, Ephraim “Lefty” Pesach and lilmamzer have found a new post, “Hamas holds the right” where they are again espousing their usual drivel.  You might want to check it out.

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By Michael Shaw, June 19, 2007 at 8:53 pm Link to this comment

79272 JBLOGGZ Israel is of strategic importance in the bid to dominate all the oil and natural gas in the region. They have been our police dogs for years. I believe at least part of the idea in allowing a Jewish state was so the US (and Britain) could maintain a strong foothold in the region.

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By Michael Shaw, June 19, 2007 at 8:26 pm Link to this comment

Well Steven, it appears we are practically neighbors. I hail from Santa Cruz. It appears they are outsourcing everything, even the news. I wonder what’s next? Outsourced politicians?

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By Michael Shaw, June 19, 2007 at 8:22 pm Link to this comment

Lefty what makes you believe that will happen?

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By Stephen Smoliar, June 19, 2007 at 1:53 pm Link to this comment

Michael (#79274), broadcasters are not the only ones “faking locality.”  At least one Reuters story about contaminated cat food, while released through the Reuters: US News feed, was actually written in Bangalore!  Check out the details at:

http://therehearsalstudio.blogspot.com/2007/04/o-brave-new-world-that-has-such-people.html

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By Michael Shaw, June 19, 2007 at 12:29 pm Link to this comment

# 79238 Brilliant analogy Steven. As we must be careful ourselves in how we communicate to others we must also be careful when others communicate with us. We must also be able to delve and read between the lines. Clearly the better we understand our own language the better we can break it down and find the real message. You know frankly I don’t think most people are careful or perhaps even capable enough, especially when it comes to major media. To me, major media for the most part is merely a propaganda tool. Of course all nations expel their own brand of rhetoric. But if anyone today actually believes we have a free broadcast media they should look to the consolidations of the FCC who took 50 major news outlets from a decade ago and consolidated them into 5 outlets today. Independent media has been virtually gobbled up. What cracks me up is groups like clearchannel who own about 40% of the media in our country try to make their local news team seem local. They even fly out their media whores and film them locally to give them a feel of community to the mostly unaware public. The joke of course is they are not local, far from it and they have no real commitment, stake or investment in our community. Of the 3 so called local broadcaster we have here in the central coast, only one of them is actually local.  This has happened all over the nation. Chicago’s News comes from the south. California’s news comes from the mid-west etc etc. But they keep telling us they are local. In effect they are lying to us. Now how can we trust news from anyone who can’t even tell us where they’re broadcasting from?

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By jbloggz, June 19, 2007 at 12:24 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

To see the comments on this low life Lieberman you would think that he is something of stature. He’s not, he’s just another zionista pushing out the same old crap. It wasn’t only Hitler who got rid of jews. Poles got rid of tens of thousands but not in ovens they merely kicked em out.  Poland has been better for that, at least Poles run their country. So… what happened that the US loves em so much that they pour billions into the bottomless israeli pit?  The Brits gave em nuclear weapons, the US gave em everything else. Just look into the people that control, government, media and much more in the two aforementioned countries. Good trick huh!

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By Stephen Smoliar, June 19, 2007 at 9:59 am Link to this comment

Michael (#79147), actually, one of the things I try do regularly on my own blog is find examples where people play fast and loose with the language they use and then try to tease some underlying truth about of that sloppy usage.  Today’s exercise, for example, deals with the buzz around THE KINGDOM, the new cop movie set in Saudi Arabia;  and my “victim” is a consultant for this project who happens to work for Kissinger’s consulting firm:

http://therehearsalstudio.blogspot.com/2007/06/reading-through-buzz.html

What I believe such exercises demonstrate is that, while knowledge definitely CAN BE powerful, as Ernest (#79093) reminded us, DISINFORMATION is often MORE powerful!  Thus, it is up to all of us to recognize disinformation when it is being spooned out to us and burrow under it in search of the knowledge it is trying to conceal.

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By Michael Shaw, June 19, 2007 at 12:07 am Link to this comment

See I already screwed up! 7 Afghan children killed in Iraq. Meant Afghanistan! Oooopps!

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By Michael Shaw, June 18, 2007 at 11:48 pm Link to this comment

#79015 Thanks Robert! I’ll do my best!

You know I am not one of those having to be politically correct kind of dudes. As a strong advocate to free speech, I also don’t generally try to tell people what they should or shouldn’t say either, but I do believe it’s important in being careful in what one says because often one word or mis-phrase could change the whole body of a discussion. I am certainly not infallible. I’ve made a few whoppers in this blog already!

To get to the point, I was listening to the news today about the 7 Afghan children killed in Iraq by a US raid. The clearchannel despots referred to them as “kids” and the local channel, the one I prefer referred to them as children. Now this might not seem all that different or that big of a deal. But to me there is a world of difference. A kid is a goat and a child a human being. Mistrusting major media as much as I do, I took this as an affront, a cheapening of human life concerning this event. Perhaps I’m being manic here, I knew what they meant by kids. But I do believe we must think about what we say before we convey it to others. Just the way we say something changes the entire story.(I’d like to hear what Steven has to say about this)

It’s pretty damn hard not to refer to Jews concerning Israel. I realize that and yet I knit picked about an article simply because it referred to Judaism rather than Zionism. I realize most Zionists are Jews, but I couldn’t help myself in saying not all Jews are Zionists. Perhaps I did so simply because I admire many Jews, starting with a high school English teacher who was the best and most beautiful teacher I ever had. Or perhaps I say it because I am partly Jewish myself and ashamed of what the Israeli government is doing. I don’t know what it is. Maybe I’m just going crazy. But to me the ethnic war that people seem to be talking about is really not an ethnic war, but a struggle among Semites. Brother killing brother over land and ideology. It is not much different than northern Ireland, the colony created in Ireland by the British. As we know, the bloodshed there lasted for hundreds of years. Several centuries! Basically Scot killing Irish and vice versa. Catholic killing Protestant, brother killing brother.

Anyone with an inkling to history knows the Scottish came from Ireland. They migrated to Scotland and were an Irish tribe know as the Scotti. Later the English exploited them to war on Ireland, thus creating the northern state within a state. Now I’m sure that even today and knowing the hostilities have finally stopped, if I were to go to a Scottish pub and tell those folks they were Irish I would get punched in the mouth! Same goes in Ireland. To me this is exactly what is going on in the Middle East.

We often hear the talk(exploitation) about the tribal wars between Arab and Arab, that Arabs are simply war-like crazy animals. That is what is currently being said of Gaza and Hammas. Yet these people are all Semites, every last one of them. Be it tribal war amongst Jew and Arab, Arab and Arab, Arab Jew and Arab, however you shape it, it is a struggle of ideologies among the Semitic peoples. That I believe was the point I was trying to get across earlier. But I leaped before I looked! Hopefully this new explanation will shed more light.

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By Tony Wicher, June 18, 2007 at 8:12 pm Link to this comment

Some people are worried that Lefty is preventing dialogue and we should be ignoring him, but once you get to know him he becomes really useful to the discussion, because he gives us endless opportunities to prove over and over that he is wrong. In this way he provides a very useful energy to the discussion. Seriously, Lefty, don’t go away.

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By cann4ing, June 18, 2007 at 7:18 pm Link to this comment

Actually, Robert, I think Ephraim “Lefty” Pesach’s rants are so absurdly irrational that most do not warrant a direct response.  What is of value is your factual presentations, especially your sharing with others at Truthdig extensive links to essential information.

Scienter est Potentia is Latin for “knowledge is power.”  Given the importance of the United States to the resolution of the Israel/Palestine conflict, I suspect that a meaningful, just and peaceful resolution will only come about when a majority of the American people come to understand the destructive and racist nature of Zionism and the harm that it has caused not only to Palestinian but to peace-loving Israelis.

In a nation where AIPAC, Alan Dershowitz and Joe Lieberman have sought to limit the scope of discourse, the voices of intellectual giants like Noam Chomsky and Norman Finkelstein must be heard above baseless claims of “anti-semitism” from individuals like Ephraim “Lefty” Pesach, who are already way beyond Chutzpah.

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By Robert, June 18, 2007 at 2:01 pm Link to this comment

Comment #78921 by Ernest Canning on 6/18

Ernest…yes the link has several tidbits of information that were glaring at all of us & our “lefty/ephraim-pesach”.

With every post he exposes his SICK zionist agenda of hatred and the worst form of GLARING racism. Lefty just wants everyone to “shut-up” about his great love for Israel’s racist/apartheid zionism & its ideologies. He wants everyone just to EXIT this & other threads concerning the Palestine-Israel conflict. 

Notice that he keeps striking out & then he attempts to want to go to something else, as he has been doing and just did in his last desperate post. I noticed that my last post really rattled his cage. His outburst of frothing HATE fits exactly what I posted about him in my initial post at the beginning of this thread.

Whats next for lefty…a quote from Pharaoh?

We can ignore his deep rooted hatred, or respond with facts, and we have. But we should also NOT just sit on the sidelines and NOT do something.

Lefty/ephraim’s type of post comments can be heard all over our main stream “AIPAC” controlled media, maybe not in the same ranting words, but its out there beneath that transparent thin surface of the news media’s agendas…of fueling hatred for Arabs, Islamic….etc…

Thanks to the internet, we can help to bring the TRUTH so that many others can have a chance to see the other side that has been concealed for so many, many years.


Michael Shaw: Thanks for your constructive inputs. No need to apologize to me. I respect your point of view. I hope that you will continue to be constructive and to the point as you have been. I know that you conveyed that theme in your comments. The TRUTH matters to you. It matters to me and to many people who care about all humanity.

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By Michael Shaw, June 18, 2007 at 1:36 pm Link to this comment

Steven you are right. Britain created this mess and as we see she hasn’t yet given up her colonial ambitions. I look to the overthrow of Iran by Kermit Roosevelt back in the 50’s. That was for the sake of BP. Look what it’s done! Look at us with Britain in Iraq! Look at the west ignoring the plight of the Palestinians! The mess created a century ago continues to evolve. What it amounts to is more bloodshed and more enemies. The defense industry loves it!

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By Michael Shaw, June 18, 2007 at 1:28 pm Link to this comment

78232 Thanks again Robert. Like you I am not per say a Zionist though I believe in Israel’s right to exist. That might sound like an oxymoron but to anyone who believes Israel should not exist and be dismantled, where on earth would they go and who would take them?

My anti-Zionism comes in the form of military aggression by the right wing government of Israel and their abandoning any commitment to a real peace process with the Palestinians. Another problem I have is with their reactionary psychology to ending any peace process when an incident in terror happens. To this end Israel has been as over reactionary as our own government was concerning 9/11. I perceive much of this as coming from the holocaust. As for Bush and company, there is no excuse, merely opportunity.

There will always be someone on any side who is willing to end the peace process, especially knowing how easy it is. We simply can’t go out invading other countries every time an act of terror happens. Defending yourself is one thing, but scaled aggression and preemptive war is another.

It’s like the war on terror itself. It is battling an ideology and doing that is an impossible task. After 59 years of bloodshed, it has done nothing for Israel.

Terrorism has always been with us. Sadly it will probably always be with us. The key to controlling it is through mutual cooperation. To this end I agree with Dennis Kucinich. We need a department of peace. Every nation needs a department of peace, including Israel and the Palestinians.

As I’ve said before, we need to compensate the Palestinians for their losses and give them a new state with their own autonomy. To start this ball rolling, we need to help Israel give up the occupied territories. We shouldn’t abandon them, merely help them achieve this goal.

I believe once the Palestinians see a ray of hope and a chance at governing their own destiny, levels of violence will dispense and open negotiations leading to real friendship and mutual cooperation will be attainable. This will be of great benefit to Israel and it should ease tensions between them and their Islamic neighbors.

The problem is how do we get this started and who will have the courage to initiate it?

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By Michael Shaw, June 18, 2007 at 12:10 pm Link to this comment

You’re right Steven and I will do so! Thanks!

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By Michael Shaw, June 18, 2007 at 12:07 pm Link to this comment

Robert RV I admit I was knit picking a bit and I apologize. It seems to me there is plenty of knit picking going on in here and my adding to this flame is non productive. What I see in here beyond the several very stimulating and enjoyable conversations, is a whole lot of hate. Not by you but perhaps in a way by everyone of us in here. Hate is what flames the war in the middle East. Hate is what promoted the aparteid wall. Hate is what promoted theft of lands and subjugation and blowing up buses with school children. Hate is what our real enemy is. That and indifference.

It seems we are not only defending our personal ideologies but now we are defending our ethnicity as well. Both sides are guilty of this. Well I no longer wish to be a part of it. If we are ever to solve the problems of the Middle East or even problems at home we need to end the hate and form rational judgments. Pointing fingers at one and other only breeds a continuation of the same old carnage and mistrust.

For my own contribution to this, I apologize to all.

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By atheo, June 18, 2007 at 10:49 am Link to this comment

@ Peter RV,

I couldn’t agree more. Did Americans whine about racism when America was criticized during the Vietnam war? Are they sensitive now to harsh verbiage regarding Iraq? Only the warmongers. All this supposed hurt about anti-semitism is simply a foil, it is an attempt to silence the criticism and divert the attention to the purported “hate” of the one exposing the crimes. Is there a real racism in opposing Israel? No more so than opposition to apartheid South Africa or indeed American slavery.

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By Peter RV, June 18, 2007 at 9:17 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Ref.#78845 by Michael Shaw

I understand your objection to my oversimplifying expressions such as ‘judeo-american’ when talking about those American Jews who are responsible for the mess we are in and who are,BTW, preparing us an even bigger one. Of course, I am aware that not all Jews, and not all Americans, for that matter, are guilty of the abomination we ended up in. I read avidly everything what Finkelstein and Chomsky say (although I certainly do not agree completely with their interpretation of our situation) and I frankly admire Uri Avnery, Gideon Levy and Amira Haas, but these people are themselves under a permanent siege by those Jews who are calling shots in our Country and Israel. Now, am I supposed every time I mention these anthropophags like Lieberman and Co, to recite the politically correct mantra and mention Einstein, for exemple? Besides being boring,it would reflect in a way, an appology to the Jews, which I don’t intend. Jews have to feel sufficient guilt for the existance of this crowd in their midst. I don’t even know if they are a majority in in their community,or not (although they certainly give that chutspah impresion that they are). I call them ‘tribal Jews’ to distinguish them from the others but doubt that would be a better accepted term. If that offends, so let it be. Hour is late and the Tribals’s got this Nation by the balls, worrying about the mannerism is quite out of place, at this moment

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By Stephen Smoliar, June 18, 2007 at 8:54 am Link to this comment

Michael (##78842), there are many ways in which I can respond, all of which would take this discussion even further from the Lieberman topic than it has gone already!  If you are interested in continuing the discussion, I suggest you use the Post a Comment link at the bottom of the Rehearsal Studio post and copy-and-paste your comment from here to there.  You can also create an RSS subscription to Post Comments for automatic notification of new comments (and, of course, you can subscribe to the blog, itself).  I doubt that the discussion here will benefit from considering the issues of genetic epistemology!

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By cann4ing, June 18, 2007 at 8:20 am Link to this comment

Interesting link Robert.  I was intrigued by a couple of other historical tidbits it contained:  That in 1938 the World Zionist Conference refused to participate in a 31 nation conference in France on the resettlement of the victims of Nazism because it feared “resettlement of Jews in other nations would reduce the numbers available for Palestine.”  It quotes David Ben Gurion as stating, “If I knew that it were possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, but only half of them by transporting them to Palestine, I would choose the second.”

These two quotes sum up the fundamental distinction between the interests of the Jewish people and the ideologically blinded goals of Zionism.

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By Robert, June 18, 2007 at 6:37 am Link to this comment

Comment #78854 by “lefty=ephraim pesach” on 6/17

“The Arabs supported the Third Reich & assisted Adolph Hitler it attempting to exterminate all of the Jews.”

=================================================

  The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict
  Zionism and the Holocaust


“The U.N. decisions to partition Palestine and then to grant admission to the state of Israel were made, on one level, as an emotional response to the horrors of the Holocaust, Under more normal circumstances, the compelling claims to sovereignty of the Arab majority would have prevailed. This reaction of guilt on the part of the Western allies was understandable, but that doesn’t mean the Palestinians should have to pay for crimes committed by others—a classic example of two wrongs not making a right.

The Holocaust is often used as the final argument in favor of Zionism, but is this connection justified? There are several aspects to consider in answering that question honestly. First, we will examine the historical record of what the Zionist movement actually did to help save European Jewry from the Nazis.

Shamir proposes an alliance with the Nazis

“As late as 1941, the Zionist group LEHI, one of whose leaders, Yitzhak Shamir, was later to become a prime minister of Israel, approached the Nazis, using the name of its parent organization, the Irgun(NMO)...[The proposal stated:] ‘The establishment of the historical Jewish state on a national and totalitarian Pd bound by a treaty with the German Reich would be in the interests of strengthening the future German nation of power in the Near East…The NMO in Palestine offers to take an active part in the war on Germany’s side’...The Nazis rejected this proposal for an alliance because, it is reported, they considered LEHI’s military power ‘negligible.’ ” Allan Brownfield in “The Washington Report on Middle Eastern Affairs”, July/August 1998.”

—————————————————————————

AS LATE AS 1941, SHAMIR PROPOSES AN ALLIANCE WITH THE ZAZIS…HMMM….???

(Yitzhak Shamir, was later to become a prime minister of Israel)

Well…well…What do you know…a former Israeli prime minister wanted an alliance with the Nazis!

Have you all noticed that Lefty/ephraim-pesach is confused and getting desparate for anything? His lies and evil zionist propaganda are scattered on this & other threads.

Lefty/ephraim’s attempts are NOT working for him & no one is buying his zionist lies’s bait!

- Planting doubt…Not working!
- Character & personal attacks…not working.
- Sidetracking attempts…NOT working.
- Changing the topic…NOT working.
- Lies & zionist propaganda ...NOt working.
- Placing blame/questioning postures…NOT working.
- Amateurish heckling ...NOT working.
- By way of deception…NOT working.
- Trying to be clever & cute…NOT working.
- Lots of BS…NOT working.
- Chameleon tactics, trying to blend in with the crowd…NOT working.

Lefty/pesach…your ‘ADL’ friends are losing their confidense & patience with performance.

YOUR LIES ARE UP TO YOUR EARS…YOUR COLLEGE MATH SHOULD HELP YOU IN FIGURING OUT YOUR STATISTICAL SUCCESS SCORE!

THE PEOPLE ON THIS THREAD & OTHERS CAN SEE RIGHT THROUGH YOUR DECEPTIVE WAYS, AND YOUR DAMN LIES!

Here is the link for the details of above facts:

http://www.wrmea.com/jews_for_justice/holocaust.html

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By Tony Wicher, June 18, 2007 at 12:51 am Link to this comment

“First of all, MILLIONS of Arabs abandoned their homes in the Israeli partition, upon the urging of the surrounding Arab countries to get out, pending the massive Arab attack upon the Israelis.”
—————————————————————————
This is a ridiculous fairy tale told to children. Millions of Arabs “abandoned” their homes solely because the Zionists were systematically attacking and occupying their villages, rounding up those deemed resisters and shooting them, and then burning them to the ground, thus carrying out a meticulous plan for the ethnic cleansing of Palestine devised master strategist David Ben-Gurion. This plan had been carefully laid for years and was carried out as soon as the U.N. granted the partition of Palestine and the British Mandate ended. Please, read Pappe and learn some real history.

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By Michael Shaw, June 17, 2007 at 9:46 pm Link to this comment

Peter RV Although I agree with most of your post 78784, I could have better stomached, “Zionist/Neocon” propaganda rather than “Judeo American” hypocrisy. I simply cannot abide in it. The notion is as absurd as Christian-Zionism which frankly is nothing more than a recent insane creation of America’s radical fundamentalist movement. I’d like to add that the so called Christian Zionists want to bring on the destruction of Israel to see the second coming. The problems we see happening in the Middle East right now are coming from the right wing of the Israeli government and the right wing of our own government. I hardly believe that denotes a label like Judeo/American. Not all Americans and not all Jews like what’s going on over there and not all of them are Zionists either.

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By Michael Shaw, June 17, 2007 at 9:04 pm Link to this comment

78731 Steven, I read and enjoyed your article. It appears you are a linguistics expert yourself. If not, surely a devout disciple to it. I appreciate your professional opinion and the interesting knowledge you exemplify.

As for me and coming from the perspective of an interested non expert, what I’ve gathered from the Psychology of Language debate concerning Chomsky and Jean Piaget is perhaps what I believe to be its most important aspect. Evolution. To believe it or not! This is the real question here, at least in layman’s terms.

Do we believe our cognitive, inbred ability to communicate has basic unchanging limitations, or does it have more multidimensional evolving aspects?

Well I believe in evolution! For this reason I tend to lean toward Chomsky. We all climbed out of the same slime pond hundreds of millions of years ago and the complexities of the brain, especially it’s communications center are as complex as life itself and life is an ever changing, ever developing and evolving process. I see no limitations to it. Life will find a way.

There is no doubt that the “gift” of communication separates us from the other animals and in fact there is hardly a doubt our communication is the main tool to our survival as a species. Does it evolve? Will it continue to evolve? There is evidence that suggests it does. To take the other side of the coin one would almost have to believe in an Adam and Eve and throw Darwinism right out the window.

Evolution is what brought us from the pond to the days of homo erectus and we’ve come a long way since then. As surely as we have abandoned the cave to embrace modern culture, science and technology, so too have we improved our language and communications skills. Is this as far as it gets? Perhaps! But I believe it is only the beginning!

Thanks Steven!

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By Michael Shaw, June 17, 2007 at 6:50 pm Link to this comment

I’m sorry Lefty but it is you who needs to investigate.

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By Michael Shaw, June 17, 2007 at 6:43 pm Link to this comment

Ernest I understand that. We are creating the turmoil there. There’s no doubt about it! They want this to happen. It’s obvious!

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By PatrickHenry, June 17, 2007 at 5:48 pm Link to this comment

Lieberman endorsed Chalabi, Gonzales, WMD in Iraq and its subseqent invasion, AIPAC and their provocatours. Now he advocates war on Iran.

His judgement stinks.

If we had term limits he would have to be elected as something else…like Connecticut Controller or Governer…some other office where he can piss off those people who keep sending him to Washington, where he helps Bush to alienate America from the rest of the World and U.S. citizens from other states.

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By cann4ing, June 17, 2007 at 5:06 pm Link to this comment

Micahel Shaw, current circumstances entail more than simply the US/Israeli refusal to accept electoral results in Palestine when the Palestinian people rejected the thoroughly corrupt Fatah, replacing it with Hamas.  According to Ali Abunimah of the electronic intifada, who was interviewed on June 15 at Democracy Now! Egypt, Israel and the U.S. have been arming Palestinian death squads, including forces controlled by Gaza warlord, Muhammed Declan.  Abunimah compares these death squads to the Contras and notes that “the architect of this policy is none other than Elliot Abrams…who was convicted for lying to Congress in the Iran-Contra scandal.”

Abunimah contends this is part of a larger US strategy of installing puppet regimes throughout the region to “fight proxy wars…against this phantom enemy of an Islamic caliphate that George Bush and his friends have dreamed up.  An everywhere it is failing.  In Afghanistan the Taliban are resurgent.  [In] Iraq…the US can’t even trust the Iraqi militias and the Iraqi army that it set up…And now we see the US-backed Palestinian Contras being routed in Gaza.”

http://www.democracynow.org/print.pl?sid=07/06/15/142823

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By Michael Shaw, June 17, 2007 at 4:22 pm Link to this comment

Robert… post# 78759 Absolutely true what you’re saying. I think it should be pointed out however that the Stern Gang never had more than 100 members. The fact remains they assassinated several people, including some Jews and even a British diplomat. I believe the total number of assassinations they committed amounted to about 40 in all and in fact 40% of those were Jews. The other 60% of the victims were Palestinians and the Brits.

As for Hammas, the actions of Israel and the US in denying them and “appointing” a new government proves without a doubt there is no true road map to peace. Neither Israel nor the United States wants a viable peace process any more than they want a viable Palestinian state. All it amounts to are more land grabs and more chaos for the Palestinian people. Divide and conquer! Starve them! Crush them out of existence! How many times have we seen this happen there?

If they hadn’t killed Arafat they wouldn’t be worrying about Hammas. That action alone propelled Hammas into power. Israel in fact even supported Hammas in the past to fight the PLO and now here we go again! It won’t stop until an Israelite becomes their prime minister! All the while the bulk of Palestinians suffer.

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By Peter RV, June 17, 2007 at 4:17 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Ref.78759 by Robert
Thanks for Donald Neff’s article and the link.

Judeo-American hypocrisy is truly breath-taking

I never thought of either Hezbollah or Hamas as being terrorist organizations, especially not Hamas.
Hamas was declared a terrorist on the insistance of our Semites.(Russia refuses to recognize it as such). In fact, it is an important social organization very close to the Palestinian People and it is for this reason that it won the only real democratic elections Palestinian ever had. They are apparently very disciplined para-military formation something like Lebanese Hesbollah who have proved themselves magnificent fighters in the best Arab tradition.
Al Fatah has outlived its usefullnesss if it ever had one. By sssociating themselves with the occupation they are committing suicide in installments which is going to be obvious in a not too-distant future. Collaborators of the enemy of the occupied people invariably get corrupted and hated by their own people (Remember what happened to that ‘South Lebanon Christian Army’ not so long ago, so much loved by our ‘Christian Zionists’).
It doesn’t matter what the situation looks like at the moment, Hamas is there to stay. It is there to stay for the simple reason, because other organizations have nothing to offer Palestinians except the acceptance of their chains.
If Hamas gets hold of some of those russian anti-tank weapons Hezbollah used in Lebanon, those ‘excursions’in Gaza may just become much less enjoyable, for the IDF.
And, they will get them eventually.

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By atheo, June 17, 2007 at 3:31 pm Link to this comment

Robert,

The fact that lefti is not simply ignored at this forum, indicates that many are using it to comfort themselves with lies rather than to seek truth. It reminds me of other supremicist groups that push the same type of hate filled messages:

” Ahmadinejad.  He is an irrelevant germ.  Although, his Nazi sentiments are widely shared by the vast majority of Arabs and Muslims.”

His constant resort to cusses and insult should be a signal to all that he is simply a hatemongering racist. Sadly, he prevents actual dialog from occuring.

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By Robert, June 17, 2007 at 2:14 pm Link to this comment

Washington Report, May/June 2006, pages 14-15

Special Report

Hamas: A Pale Image of the Jewish Irgun And Lehi Gangs

By Donald Neff

“A photograph dated 1947 shows a poster issued by British police forces seeking 18 wanted Jewish terrorists from the Irgun Zvai Leumi and Stern Gang. Pictured at top left is Irgun commander and future Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin (AFP Photo).
     
AS EASY as it is to dismiss clichés as banal and misleading, the troubling problem is that they often cloak an essential truth. Scoffs and derision often greet the cliché that “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.” Yet freedom fighters is exactly how Israelis view the early Zionists who fought in 1947 for the establishment of Israel—and how Palestinians now consider their fighters resisting Israeli occupation.

The reality is that when faced with a superior military force, such as Britain possessed in 1947 and Israel does today against the Palestinians, terror is the underdog’s only viable weapon. Once a state has been established and legitimized, however, as in the cases of Israel and South Africa, the former “terrorists” tend to gain a veil of legitimacy as well. But legitimacy is now being denied Hamas. Even though Palestinians elected a Hamas-led government in free and fair elections, Israel denies it legitimacy on the grounds that Hamas is a terrorist organization.

Sixty years ago, however, at the time of the British Mandate, it was Jews in Palestine who mainly waged terrorism against the Palestinians. As Jewish leader David Ben-Gurion recorded in his personal history of Israel: “From 1946 to 1947 there were scarcely any Arab attacks on the Yishuv [the Jewish community in Palestine].”

The same could not be said for the Zionists. Jewish terrorists waged an intense and bloody campaign against the Palestinians, British, and even some Jews who opposed them leading up to the establishment of Israel.

The two major Jewish terror organizations in pre-independence Palestine were the Irgun Zvai Leumi—National Military Organization, NMO, also known by the Hebrew letters Etzel—founded in 1937, and the Lohamei Herut Israel, Fighters for the Freedom of Israel, Lehi in the Hebrew acronym, also known as the Stern Gang after its leader Avraham Stern, known as Yair, founded in 1940.

The Irgun was led by Menachem Begin, the future Israeli prime minister who was a leading proponent of Revisionist Zionism, the militant branch of Zionism pioneered by Vladimir Zeev Jabotinsky, which openly despised the Arabs and sought restoration of what it called Eretz Yisrael, the ancient land of Israel. By this was meant “both sides of the Jordan,” the Irgun slogan meaning all of Palestine and Jordan was the rightful home of the Jews.

The Irgun was the dominant Jewish terrorist organization, both in size and the number and frequency of its attacks. Its most spectacular feat up to this time had been the July 22, 1946 blowing up of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, with the killing of 91 people—41 Arabs, 28 British and 17 Jews. Mainstream Zionists despised Begin and his Revisionists, although there was cooperation between the two on military matters. Ben-Gurion, the leader of mainstream Zionism, fought throughout his premiership with Begin.”

—————————————————————————
THE ‘TRUTH’ HAS A LASTING & PENETRATING STING TO IT…WHEN IT COMES AT YOU FROM TRUTHFUL PEOPLE, like Ilan Pappe, Norman Finkelstein and others….

“Zionist PROPAGANDA”...has NO place in the zone of TRUTH.

The Zionists (Jewish) were the first to bring “TERRORISM” to Palestine (see details in article link).

Let us ask this “lefty=ephraim pesach” if he is more qualified on the subject of “HISTORY” of Palestine, Zionism & Mid-East? Is Ephraim more qualified than Ilan Pappe (PhD from Oxford)...Norman Finkelstein…PhD…?

http://www.wrmea.org/archives/May-June_2006/0605014.html

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By atheo, June 17, 2007 at 1:17 pm Link to this comment

Lieberman Repeats Calls For Military Action In Iran
By Stephen Singer , Associated Press Writer


http://www.theday.com/re_print.aspx?re=0f3e0679-4258-4989-98d4-9e7708e40402

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By atheo, June 17, 2007 at 1:14 pm Link to this comment

lefti writes:

“Second, what sovereign nation wouldn’t expell terrorists from their country?”

I guess he would have supported the Third Riech.

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By Robert, June 17, 2007 at 11:56 am Link to this comment

  
     
“THE 1948 ETHNIC CLEANSING OF PALESTINE ILAN PAPPÉ”

“This article, excerpted and adapted from the early chapters of a new book, emphasizes the systematic preparations that laid the ground for the expulsion of more than 750,000 Palestinians from what became Israel in 1948. While sketching the context and diplomatic and political developments of the period, the article highlights in particular a multi-year “Village Files” project (1940–47) involving the systematic compilation of maps and intelligence for each Arab village and the elaboration—under the direction of an inner “caucus” of fewer than a dozen men led by David Ben-Gurion—of a series of military plans culminating in Plan Dalet, according to which the 1948 war was fought. The article ends with a statement of one of the author’s underlying goals in writing the book: to make the case for a paradigm of ethnic cleansing to replace the paradigm of war as the basis for the scholarly research of, and the public debate about, 1948.

ON A COLD WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON, 10 March 1948, a group of eleven men, veteran Zionist leaders together with young military Jewish officers, put the final touches on a plan for the ethnic cleansing of Palestine1. That same evening, military orders were dispatched to units on the ground to prepare for the systematic expulsion of Palestinians from vast areas of the country2. The orders came with a detailed description of the methods to be used to forcibly evict the people: large-scale intimidation; laying siege to and bombarding villages and population centers; setting fire to homes, properties, and goods; expelling residents; demolishing homes; and, finally, planting mines in the rubble to prevent the expelled inhabitants from returning. Each unit was issued its own list of villages and neighborhoods to target in keeping with the master plan. Code-named Plan D (Dalet in Hebrew), this was the fourth and final version of vaguer plans outlining the fate that was in store for the native population of Palestine3. The previous three plans had articulated only obscurely how the Zionist leadership intended to deal with the presence of so many Palestinians on the land the Jewish national movement wanted for itself. This fourth and last blueprint spelled it out clearly and unambiguously: the Palestinians had to go.

The plan, which covered both the rural and urban areas of Palestine, was the inevitable result both of Zionism’s ideological drive for an exclusively Jewish presence in Palestine and a response to developments on the ground following the British decision in February 1947 to end its Mandate over the country and turn the problem over to the United Nations. Clashes with local Palestinian militias, especially after the UN partition resolution of November 1947, provided the perfect context and pretext for implementing the ideological vision of an ethnically cleansed Palestine.

Once the plan was finalized, it took six months to complete the mission. When it was over, more than half of Palestine’s native population, over 750,000 people, had been uprooted, 531 villages had been destroyed, and 11 urban neighborhoods had been emptied of their inhabitants. The plan decided upon on 10 March 1948, and above all its systematic implementation in the following months, was a clear case of what is now known as an ethnic cleansing operation.”

—————————————————————————

Here is the link for the rest of Dr. Ilan Pappe’s, an Israeli Historian and professor, article “THE 1948 ETHNIC CLEANSING OF PALESTINE”:

http://71.18.226.238/final/en/journals/printer.php?aid=7175

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By Stephen Smoliar, June 17, 2007 at 10:49 am Link to this comment

In response to Michael (#78591) (and anyone else interested in Chomsky the linguist, as opposed to Chomsky the political polemicist) I have just written a “position post” on my view of Chomsky at

http://therehearsalstudio.blogspot.com/2007/06/structurational-cognition.html

where all are invited to comment!

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By Robert, June 16, 2007 at 7:21 pm Link to this comment

Comment #78583 by Michael Shaw on 6/16

Michael your comment/post # 78583… An excellent post without a doubt!

The TRUTH is the best route!

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By Stephen Smoliar, June 16, 2007 at 5:20 pm Link to this comment

Michael (#78583), any attempt to account for the ill will of Arabs towards the presence of Jews in Palestine must account for the role of the British.  Remember that, after Lawrence planted the seeds of a union of the Arab tribes, he advised them to trust the better judgment of the British in matters of governance, because the British owed a debt to the Arabs for their military assistance.  Unfortunately, the British ended up “paying” in the form of the Balfour Declaration, which essentially opened the gates for any Jew to settle in Palestine (now under British control) as a “return to the homeland.”  Without the Balfour Declaration the Zionist movement would never have built up the strength that would culminate in the founding of the State of Israel.  From this point of view, it might be fairer to say that the British created the mess that the United States subsequently sustained after the State of Israel had been constituted.

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By Michael Shaw, June 16, 2007 at 4:13 pm Link to this comment

PS Mike mid City I see the calling of a national emergency to implement Marshall law as possible but impractical. They don’t need to go to those lengths to perpetuate the ripoff. Of course with a goof ball like Bush in there, anything is possible

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By Michael Shaw, June 16, 2007 at 3:56 pm Link to this comment

Well Mid City, I have no magic 8 ball. In fact generally and perhaps fatally and going beyond the US political institution, I tend to agree with Robert Fisk, that there is little hope…little hope.

I see two parties with weak candidates and with the mess we’re in, none of them in my view are capable of saving us. We are yet to see the results of the carnage, especially economically. If FDR were running I might not be as skeptical. But he ain’t out there although some might argue Kucinich, and he ain’t got a chance in hell!

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By Michael Shaw, June 16, 2007 at 3:32 pm Link to this comment

78572 I hear you Robert! These are the kinds of things generally suppressed by major media. It’s like the folks who think 9/11 was conducted by a group of crazy Arabs thus all of Islam must be crazy. Hardly was mentioned Israel’s use of US choppers or tanks in killing Palestinians for decades with US emblems still on them, never removed by the Israeli government. Things of this nature hadn’t happened since British merchant ships flew American flags in the first world war!

Hardly is mentioned the vast US military build up surrounding all of Mecca, the holiest of all Muslim shrines or the exploitations of big business(energy corporations,WTO) on that region. Hardly is it taken into account that Bush ended honest peace brokerage when he sided with Sharon after he called for the assassination of Arafat. And most importantly, no one is asking why 9/11 happened in the first place! All we heard and still hear is simply that they hate us. No causality!

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By Michael Shaw, June 16, 2007 at 3:06 pm Link to this comment

Hey Steven, concerning Chomsky, I appreciate your reply and also I believe the reason Chomsky has any opponents is because he is for the most part misunderstood but the bulk of those who comes across his work. Many cannot fathom his brilliance. There are those of course with alternative agendas who fully understand him and even fear him. I’m glad to see you respect him from a political stand point and I am really a big fan of Chalmers Johnson too!

I certainly didn’t wish to contribute to any misunderstanding and for that I apologize. If anything it shows us the complexities of language in real time. At least I found the ability (finally) to understand what you were getting to! Also I look forward to your blog. Thanks Steven!

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By Michael Shaw, June 16, 2007 at 2:36 pm Link to this comment

IE Arabs persecuted, murdered and subjugated Jews…. Sorry Lefty but you are wrong unless you’re talking about ancient Egypt, the Assyrians and the Pharoahs, who were not back then even Arabs. Most of the injustices to Jews that you speak of came from Christian Europe, starting with the European Crusaders who inflicted far more damage on the Jews than the Muslims ever did. In fact in that scenario, Muslims and Jews were both victimized and slaughtered. Only Christians were spared. It was an attempt to ethnically cleanse the holy land of all non Christians.

The trumped up Dreyfus Affair in France and the killing of thousands of Jews by Christian-Czarist Russia is in fact what led to Zionism in the first place. Of course then came the Nazi’s, again backed by Roman Catholicism and other Christian faiths.

Christianity has historically been a greater threat to the Jews than any other group of peoples or institutions. I’m not denying fanatical Islamic fundamentalism or its threats to Israel. But much of those threats were created by the actions of Israel herself along with the good old USA! We empowered the Taliban and in fact financed them. We created Al Queada by sending bin Laden to Afghanistan and arming him! We created Saddam Hussein and we overthrew a freely and democratically elected government in Iran(who are also non Arab by the way). That’s what led to a revolution, thanks to our backing of the Shah(whose father supported the Nazies in WW2) and ultimately established the radical Islamic fundamentalist government we are at odds with today. Even Hezbollah is a product of Israeli aggression. 

For centuries Muslim, Jew and Gentile lived in relative peace as far back as Mohammad. When Mohammad retook Jerusalem he allowed Jews(and Christians) to practice their beliefs unscathed. That trend continued up till 1948 and the creation of the Jewish state. Not until then did widespread hostilities break out between Arab and Jew and arguably, today Jews who reside in other Arab countries are not being rounded up en mass, subjugated or killed. The same cannot be said for Palestinians in the occupied territories.

In 1939 it was the Jews who were herded like cattle into camps and subjugated and the description of the Warsaw Ghetto by Jews who survived the holocaust are strikingly similar to the current descriptions of the Aparteid wall and conditions in the occupied territories. Today, a Palestinian can’t even get a blanket without permission from the Israeli government. The last time something like that happen to Jews was in Nazi occupied Europe.

In closing (and before someone starts yelling I’m anti semitic)I’d like to add I believe in Israel’s right to exist. The holocaust is reason enough to embrace this ideology. However, that said, the Palestinians who lost their land in the process should be compensated and the occupied territories given up. Also the Palestinians need their own autonomy and their own state, freed from Israeli occupation and governance. I believe the whole world should play a role in this effort. It is to their benefit. As for Britain and the United States who created this mess in the first place, they’re respective roles should be constricted to compensation aimed at creating a new Palestine State.  It should be a UN mandate and it is the only real solution to a peaceful Middle East. It will rebuild our relationships with the entire Muslim community and establish ties in friendship rather than ties to war and mistrust.

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By atheo, June 16, 2007 at 2:02 pm Link to this comment

Lefti,

Are you sure that you are Jewish, or simply a racist?
Maybe you ought to explore some better aspects of Judaism:

Rabbi Teitelbaum On Zionist Heresy    

JewsNotZionists.org  

“Zionism is the greatest form of spiritual impurity They have polluted the Jewish people with their heresy.” -Rabbi Yoel Teitelbaum

The words of the saintly Rabbi Joel Teitelbaum, author of the VAYOEL MOSHE ring clearly when we view events in the Middle East:

“...if we place all the immodesty and promiscuity of the generation and the many sins of the world on one side of the scale, and the Zionist state on the other side of the scale by itself, it would outweigh them all. “

“Zionism is the greatest form of spiritual impurity in the entire world.”

“They are polluting the entire world. They have polluted the Jewish people with their heresy, Heaven help us.”

“It is no surprise why G-d’s anger comes down from heaven. It is necessary to repent and escape from them more than from a lion who is chasing a person to kill him.”

“It has been explained that before the coming of the Messiah, this regime will come to an end, as Messiah cannot come any other way, since the Zionist state holds up the redemption of the world.”

“We need G-d’s mercies that divine intervention should bring about the end of the state. May G-d have mercy on us all.”

Rabbi Teitelbaum also wrote:

“It is clear that anyone who believes in G-d has no doubt that they are from the source of the accursed impurity of heresy, Heaven help us.

It is horrible that such a thing arose in our day, and how can we be silent when we see such violations of our faith and the principles of our entire Torah?

Especially since so many of our religious brethren - fail to speak out about the truth! In such circumstances, the entire truth could be forgotten, G-d forbid.”

“Everything our blessed rabbis cried out about earlier in the century about the dangers of Zionism has almost been forgotten! Even my own writings go ignored. THEREFORE, SHOULD THE TRUTH AND FOUNDATIONS OF OUR RELIGION BE FORGOTTEN?

It is impossible to describe to what extent the world has become sunken in such a falsehood which is destroying the entire Torah. Therefore we are obliged to cry out before anyone against the deep impurity which has spread out in our generation.

Let us hope there are increasing numbers who open up their eyes and the teachings of our forefathers should reach their ears to seek truth and faith.

Without this, there is no hope….”

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/nk.html

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By Robert, June 16, 2007 at 1:56 pm Link to this comment

Comment #78554 by Michael Shaw on 6/16

On the indigenous population of Palestine…..1890’s…

The indigenous Moslems, Christians and a small minority Jews once got along in Moslem-dominated Palestine for centuries, until about 100 or so years ago when zionist Jews started to massively colonize Palestine. Zionist thinker, Ahah Haam, criticized the early zionist settlers he saw in 1890:

“Serfs they (the Jews) were in the lands of the Diaspora, and suddenly they find themselves in freedom [in Palestine]; and this change has awakened in them an inclination to despotism. They treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, deprive them of their rights, offend them without cause, and even boast of their deeds, and nobody among us opposes this despicable and dangerous inclination.”

“In a pamphlet under the heading line of “Truth from Eretz Yisrael” published in 1891, Ahad Ha’Am wrote of how the Jewish settlers at the time treated the indigenous Palestinian people:

“[The Jewish settlers] treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, trespass unjustly, beat them shamelessly for no sufficient reason, and even take pride in doing so. The Jews were slaves in the land of their Exile, and suddenly they found themselves with unlimited freedom, wild freedom that ONLY exists in a land like Turkey. This sudden change has produced in their hearts an inclination towards repressive tyranny, as always happens when slave rules.”

Ahad Ha’Am warned: “We are used to thinking of the Arabs as primitive men of the desert, as a donkey-like nation that neither sees nor understands what is going around it. But this is a GREAT ERROR. The Arab, like all sons of Sham, has sharp and crafty mind…Should time come when life of our people in Palestine imposes to a smaller or greater extent on the natives, they WILL NOT easily step aside.” (One Palestine Complete, p. 104) How accurate Aha Ha’Am’s description was even after more than a 100 years plus of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict! The conduct of most Israelis, especially in the Occupied Territories , is very similar to the way Ahad Ha’Am portrayed early Jewish settlers’ conduct over a century ago.”

Here is the link in reference(s) to the above facts:

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Famous-Zionist-Quotes/Story642.html

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By Michael Shaw, June 16, 2007 at 12:29 pm Link to this comment

Actually atheo IE ...the first Zionist settlement….what you are referring to is the settlement of Petah Tikva, or the mother of all settlements. It was initially a failed effort founded by pioneers from Jerusalem. It was the first “modern” Jewish agricultural settlement(kibbutz) in what use to be Ottoman Palestine. The land was originally purchased in Jericho which is today one of the largest urban centers in Israel. That purchase however was rejected by the Turkish Sultan who forbade them from living there. They retained the name Petah Tikva as a symbolic gesture and went on to purchase land from the Arab village of Mullabis, a sale the Sultan allowed, no doubt because it was invested with malaria. This of course swept through their settlement, forcing them to move yet again to Yehud. Once there, they were funded by the Baron Edmond de Rothschild to drain the swamps near Mullabis and eventually moved back to the settlement in 1883. It was the birthplace of the Labor Zionist Movement, the left wing of Zionism. They were inspired by the writings of A.D. Gordon who lived in Petah Tikva. It was a socialist movement not to be confused with the political Zionism of Theodor Herzel. They believed in class struggle to attain statehood while Herzel was more motivated to influencing powerful states like Britain to attain this goal. They split in two in the 1930’s to left and right factions and abandoned their socialism entirely after WW2. They are the elitist core of today’s Israel. The Heganah, the largest Zionist military force in it’s day were a part of the Labor Zionist institution. Many of their members eventually came to power in the 1948 government. 

Another interesting tidbit is the Zionist time line showing Zionism or at least the idea of Zionism beginning as early as 1777. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Zionism

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By atheo, June 16, 2007 at 10:25 am Link to this comment

The first Zionist colony was established in 1882 in the coastal plain of Palestine, near what is today Tel Aviv.Prior to the advent of Zionism, Christians, Muslims, and Jews had lived in Palestine in relative harmony.

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By Leefeller, June 16, 2007 at 9:11 am Link to this comment

#78490 by Robert,

Thanks for finding that for me.  I heard only part of it while driving the other day.

This was why I was questioning the zion history time lines, let me know if you feel the presented history to be true or not?

I will have to listen to it at a later time, it should fill in some blanks depending on your feelings toward the speakers.

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By Stephen Smoliar, June 16, 2007 at 8:53 am Link to this comment

Michael (#78424), you misread me (not a good sign for someone with so much admiration of lingusitics)!  I never said that *I* called Chomsky psycho.  I said that I have heard him called many things (in the course of a professional life that has taken me through many circles, each of which looked at cognition through different lenses).  I am sure you will agree that Chomsky’s detractors number right up there with this admirers.  My own admiration is directed more towards his political writings, particularly his recent participation, along with Chalmers Johnson, in the American Empire Project.  As far as linguistics is concerned, I cannot deny his impact on the way we think about language today, but I prefer some of the alternatives to the path he set out and his disciples now faithfully pursue.  When I decide to pursue this further on my own blog, I’ll let you know!

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By Robert, June 16, 2007 at 12:51 am Link to this comment

Re: Comment #78483

Need to make a correction on previous comment #78483.

First sentence: I meant to say “Leefeller” asked a question about the history of zionism & the Palestinian refugee numbers.

Sorry…atheo…Leefeller!

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By Robert, June 16, 2007 at 12:23 am Link to this comment

Michael Shaw, Leefeller & Atheo…

Atheo asked a question about the history of Zionism and Palestinian refugees numbers, atheo commented on the Palestinian refugees “Who are the Palestinian refugees?” and Michael Shaw provided the name of Theodor Hertzel as the father of Zionism.

I know that there is a lot of information out there regarding these main & important issues regarding the Palestine-Israel conflict/problem.

I would like to start with an important debate between two outspoken individuals.

You can either watch the full debate video or read the transcript. This debate has a lot of facts, history, events, guidelines and what the International World Court ruled…etc…

Watch video and/or read full transcript, and you judge for your self.


“Former Israeli Foreign Minister Shlomo Ben Ami Debates Outspoken Professor Norman Finkelstein on Israel, the Palestinians, and the Peace Process.”

Here is the link to the debate of 02/14/2006. Click on Watch 256K Stream:

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/02/14/1518230

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By Michael Shaw, June 15, 2007 at 10:22 pm Link to this comment

Well Mike Mid City we’ve had plenty of fertilizer in the last 6 years. We’re up to our necks in it. Let’s hope there are enough good people with shovels out there who can dig us out of it.

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By Michael Shaw, June 15, 2007 at 9:27 pm Link to this comment

Patrick I’m not calling all of them two bit, though certainly some of them are. (Trent Lott definitely) I’m saying by limiting terms we are not giving them a chance to learn and function as they must and we will be creating more two-bit politicians than ever and giving them lifetime salaries to boot! The problem is not in the system, it is the influence of lobbies via campaign finance upon that system. That in my opinion is what needs fixing, not the senate or congress which acts and exists in the realm of constitutional law. Terms are already specified in the Constitution by the forefathers and that’s good enough for me.

I’d also like to point out it often takes years to formulate plans, laws or policies and exercise them. In this respect, by limiting a good politician who serves their constituency well we would be in effect, cutting our own throats.

Now I don’t like Trent Lott and frankly there is nothing I’d enjoy seeing more than him being thrown out of office on his ear. That said, I am not from Mississippi and it is apparent the folks down there like him. If they didn’t they wouldn’t vote for him.

I reiterate, if the people don’t like the politician than vote him out of office. If there is any provable wrongdoing, let the judiciary decide. It is not the constitution that should be turned on it’s ear, it is those who manipulate it and skirt around it by what amounts to “legalized” bribery that needs correcting.

Though I agree with you senior officials can play the system more than rookies, campaign finance is the real villain, not necessarily some politician looking to pork up his district.

Eliminate the power of the lobby-eliminate the pork and a whole lot of laws that solely represent the mega corporations.

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By Michael Shaw, June 15, 2007 at 8:54 pm Link to this comment

Mudwallow, Bravo! There is no such thing as genetic purity unless you include all of humanity as being one. This is what we should be doing, rather than diversifying our species to suit our own prejudices.

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By PatrickHenry, June 15, 2007 at 8:49 pm Link to this comment

535 elected politicians representing 300 million Americans hardly rates as two bit. 

Many of them are fine men who only wish for the well being of their constituancy and corporations within their districts.

However, over time as with all men and women in power they become intrenched with various lobby’s whose money keeps them there.  Millions are spent for a job which pays little what it cost to get there.

Senators like Trent Lott, Orrin Hatch even Kennedy get the most earmarks in spending bills as they are senior and know how to work the system better than the framers who created the system.  I’m sure their constituants and favorite corporate lobbys who benefit by government pork dollars would reelect them even if they were dead as not to lose their place in line.

Our system needs to be shaken upside down with campaign finance reform, a fair system of debate and yes, term limits for the 535.

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By Michael Shaw, June 15, 2007 at 8:12 pm Link to this comment

Patrick Henry, before we even begin to think about busting up the seniority system in the house and senate, we should consider getting rid of political salaries for life first. The quicker the turnaround in the house and senate, the more permanent salaries and lifetime medical care we end up doling out to two- bit, inexperienced politicians. Also we should consider the will of the people. If they don’t like their senior senator they can vote him out of office.

Frankly I do not abide in term limits. Like any well learned position, experience plays the greatest role. In and out politicians and more salaries for life is what you’re asking for. That and an even dumber legislation than we already have.

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By Michael Shaw, June 15, 2007 at 7:48 pm Link to this comment

Steven I’d like to add that you are right as far as my labeling Chomsky as a psycholinguistic was not exactly the best way to describe him. I should have stated “linguistics expert” instead. Still, and not to knit-pick, the debate you cite with Jean Piaget was about the psychology of language. Perhaps the reason there were no winners in that debate is because both sides stood on much of the same, common ground. As for losers, I see none. Surely everyone should have benefited by the views of these two men. Still my money goes with Chomsky who had plenty of evidence to back up his notions. Perhaps that is prejudicial on my part since I so greatly admire the man.

I would also like to add that when I mentioned Chomsky in the first place it was from a humanistic standpoint concerning the Middle East. I do however appreciate your correcting me in this slight error of entitlement, although I will never be swayed by your assessment of Chomsky as being a psycho. I accept his opinions on the Middle East as structurally sound even if you do not.

But that’s all right. Healthy debate is what true democracy is all about. I appreciate your comments.

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By PatrickHenry, June 15, 2007 at 6:59 pm Link to this comment

Sen Joe Lieberman (I-Israel) poster boy for term limits.

Sworn into the US senate by GHWB in 89’.

As advocated by Mike Gravel (3) 6 year terms as Senator are enough, the GOP’s own contract with America in 94’ proposed (2) 6 year terms.

We need to bust up the seniority system in the house and senate and reinstill democracy there.

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By Michael Shaw, June 15, 2007 at 6:29 pm Link to this comment

Well Steven, that’s your opinion. I happen to not abide in it. From a linguistics standpoint, Noam Chomsky is probably the most brilliant man in the world. He began the “Cognitive Revolution” as far back as the 1950’s which dealt entirely with psychology, anthropology and linguistics. He is also credited in creating the theory of generative grammar and is the head of MIT’s linguistics department. He is the 8th most cited scholar in the world. I don’t think that merits in calling him a psycho.

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By Michael Shaw, June 15, 2007 at 6:03 pm Link to this comment

And Robert thanks for your post! I appreciate your kind words and like you, I believe in the truth no matter how hard it might be to stomach. I would also like to thank you for sharing your experiences with the Middle East, especially concerning it’s human elements. This is something that is often “forgotten” though it never must be.

To me the aparteid wall and the subjugation of the Palestinian people is a crime against humanity. In fact it reminds me a whole lot about what’s been said and written by Jews themselves about the Polish Ghetto in WW2.

No one seems to care that the Israeli government has broken more UN mandates and charters than practically any other country, even Iran! God forbid if anyone points this out because once they do they are labeled as Jew haters, even if the people saying it are Jews themselves.

I pray for a reconciliation between Hebrew and Muslim and a day they can both live in peace as brothers, but it will never happen as long as Israel clings to the occupied territories or as long as the US remains a bogus peace broker.

I have never been to Israel and hope that perhaps one day I may go there. I do have friends who were there and they reflect much the same things you are talking about.

I do hope that others will read your post. It contains many of the truths that some might find to hard to fathom, but the bottom line is it contains the truth!

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By Michael Shaw, June 15, 2007 at 5:06 pm Link to this comment

Well Ernest as we know running companions are usually chosen by logistics rather than any real connection between the two candidates. Look at Kennedy and Johnson! These guys didn’t like each other at all but because LBJ came from the south he got the nod.

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By Michael Shaw, June 15, 2007 at 2:22 pm Link to this comment

Actually the first Zionist Congress began in 1879 in Basel,Switzerland. Theodor Herzle was the guy who created it. “At last I founded the Jewish(Judenstaat) State…Perhaps in five years, and certainly in fifty, everyone will know it!” Herzle who was born in Budapest, Hungry and is known as the father of Zionism. It is speculated Herzle was driven by an anti-semitic incident in France known as the Dreyfus Affair when a French-Jewish officer was tried and convicted of spying for Germany in the Franco-Prussian war. He witnessed a huge French gathering calling for “death to Jews” after this trial.

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By Michael Shaw, June 15, 2007 at 1:56 pm Link to this comment

Well lefty I think we’ve finally found something we can agree on. There should be a separation clause between the state and corporations. In fact Thomas Jefferson along with James Madison proposed that very thing in an 11th amendment while the Constitution was being drawn. The others said it wasn’t necessary since state constitutions already carried similar laws. I wonder what happened to them?

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By Mudwollow, June 15, 2007 at 1:26 pm Link to this comment

Jews are people who practice Judaism. It’s a religion, not a race. If you believe that any group of people scattered around the world for thousands of years still maintains genetic purity, you lack the reasoning of an eight-year-old.
It’s mindnumbing to see such stupidity in the 21st century. This absurd and widely believed notion of “the Jewish race” sinks to the same category as immaculate conception, resurrection and witches. Come to think of it, most people believe in this kind of crap. No wonder we are so screwed up still.

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By atheo, June 15, 2007 at 12:41 pm Link to this comment

Who are the Palestinian refugees?


Palestinian refugees are the individuals who have been forced from their homes through deliberate Israeli actions since 1948, and their offspring. There are five primary groups of Palestinian refugees and displaced persons:

The largest group is comprised of Palestinians displaced/expelled from their homes in 1948. This includes Palestinians registered as refugees with the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA), created in 1949 to aid Palestinians forced from their homes, and others who either were not eligible for international assistance or chose not to receive it.

The second major group is comprised of those Palestinians displaced for the first time in the June 1967 war from their places of origin in the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip.

The third group of refugees includes Palestinians who left the Occupied Territories since 1967 and have been prevented by Israel from returning due to revocation of residency rights, denial of family reunification, or deportation. Some are simply unwilling to return to there due to a well-founded fear of persecution.

In addition, there are two groups of internally displaced Palestinians. The first includes those who left their homes or villages but remained in the area that became the state of Israel in 1948. The second group includes Palestinians internally displaced in the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip.

http://imeu.net/news/article0030.shtml

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By atheo, June 15, 2007 at 12:38 pm Link to this comment

Do Palestinian refugees have a right to return to their homes?




Yes. All refugees have an internationally recognized right to return to areas from which they have fled or were forced, to receive compensation for damages, and to either regain their properties or receive compensation and support for voluntary resettlement. This right derives from a number of legal sources, including customary international law, international humanitarian law (governing rights of civilians during war), and human rights law. The United States government has forcefully supported this right in recent years for refugees from Bosnia, Kosovo, East Timor and elsewhere.

In the specific case of the Palestinians, this right was affirmed by the United Nations Resolution 194 of 1948, and has been reaffirmed repeatedly by that same body, and has also been recognized by independent organizations such as Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch.

The U.S. government supported Resolution 194, and voted repeatedly to affirm it until 1993. At that time, the Clinton administration began to refer to Palestinian refugee rights as matters to be negotiated between the parties to the conflict.

http://imeu.net/news/article0040.shtml

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By Leefeller, June 15, 2007 at 12:37 pm Link to this comment

Lefty,
Appreciate your followup on my question.  Need to verify, who was making speech on PBS.

Right beside you on your basic changes needed in our government.  Thought the Democrats cleared the halls of rats (lobbyist),  or was it a symbolic vote?

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By atheo, June 15, 2007 at 10:08 am Link to this comment

On the Escalator to War With Iran

by Patrick J. Buchanan


...With Lebanon, Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan convulsed by ever-widening civil wars, a new danger is that the United States, tied down in two of those wars, may be about to lash out and launch a third – on Iran…


“If there’s any hope of ... stopping their nuclear weapons development,” Lieberman said, “we can’t just talk to them.”

Joe’s call for air strikes follows the GOP debate where several presidential hopefuls did not even rule out the use of tactical atomic weapons to deal with Iran’s uranium enrichment program.

These are politicians, however, and bashing Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s Iran has no political downside. More ominous are the grim words of serious U.S. diplomats and soldiers not usually given to bellicose rhetoric.

On Wednesday, Undersecretary of State Nicholas Burns told CNN that Iran is not only arming the Taliban in Afghanistan, but Hamas in Gaza, Hezbollah in Lebanon and insurgents in Iraq.

“There’s irrefutable evidence the Iranians are now doing this and it’s a pattern of activity,” said Burns. He added there was no chance the shipments were coming from rebel groups in Iran.

“It’s certainly coming from the government of Iran. It’s coming from the Iranian Revolutionary Guard corps command, which is a basic unit of the Iranian government,” said Burns.

NATO officials in Afghanistan say Iranian-made AK-47s, plastic explosives, mortars and one “explosively formed penetrator” bomb that can pierce coalition armor have been intercepted.

On Wednesday, Gen. Petraeus told USA Today’s Cesar Soriano that Iran is “funding, arming, training and, even in some cases, directing the activities of extremists and militia elements in Iraq.”

The flow of arms from Iran into Iraq, said Petraeus, has not diminished since the May 28 meeting between U.S. Ambassador Ryan Crocker and his Iranian counterpart.

“The people they (the Iranians) are arming are very, very serious thugs,” said Petraeus. The general claims that militants armed by Iran kidnapped the British contractors on May 29 and were behind the recent mortar and rocket attacks on the Green Zone.

What Iran is being publicly charged with here, by responsible U.S. officials, are acts of war – arming insurgents and terrorists to kill U.S. soldiers and civilians.

“As many as 200 American soldiers” may have been killed by Iranians or Iranian-trained insurgents, Lieberman claimed. Petraeus and Nick Burns would not be making these charges publicly if the White House did not want them made publicly.

What is going on? The most logical explanation is that the White House is providing advance justification for air strikes on camps of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard that are allegedly providing training for and transferring weapons to Afghan and Iraqi insurgents. And if the United States conducts those strikes, Iranians will unite around Ahmadinejad, and Tehran will order retaliatory strikes against U.S. targets in Iraq and perhaps across the Middle East.

President Bush will then have his casus belli to take out Natanz and all the other Iranian nuclear facilities, as the Israelis and the neocons have been demanding that he do. This would mean a third Middle Eastern war for America, with a nation three times as large and populous as Iraq. Perhaps it is time to begin constructing a new wing on Walter Reed.

Which raises the question: Where is the Congress? Why is it not holding public hearings and sifting the evidence to determine if Tehran is behind these attacks on Americans and if the United States has not itself been aiding insurgents inside Iran?

Or is it all up to George W. as to whether we launch a third and wider war in the Middle East, which could result in an economic and strategic disaster for the United States?

full article:

http://www.antiwar.com/pat/?articleid=11139

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By Rusty, June 15, 2007 at 9:32 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

No better than Bush? What?

First of all, as Vice-President under an intelligent president, Lieberman would not be so powerful.

Second, Lieberman actually has quite a fine career voting record across many social and environmental issues. While I agree that Lieberman has really ‘lost it’ on foreign policy matter, I’d say this writer is far too limited in his view.

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By Leefeller, June 15, 2007 at 9:12 am Link to this comment

Robert

Recently I head on public radio, a speaker on the history of zionism, do not know if he was accurate,  but he was saying that the zionism started in the 1930’S,  and that they planned and actually did move millions of Palestinians from there homes right after the state of Israel was formed,  other posters like Lefty may have some insight on this?

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By Stephen Smoliar, June 15, 2007 at 8:49 am Link to this comment

Michael Shaw (#78127), I’ve heard Noam Chomsky called a lot of things;  but “psycholinguist” was never one of them (“psycho” linguist, perhaps)!  The guy is about as inveterate a structuralist/positivist as you are ever likely to encounter:  Linguistic capacity is all hard-wired into the brain (and all semantics can be explained in terms of syntax), leaving no role for psychology.  He once had a no-holds-barred debate with Jean Piaget where there were no winners, only losers.

By the way, anyone who thinks that Lieberman’s is the only pecker in the AIPAC pocket might want to check out the photograph I pulled into my old Yahoo! 360 blog at

http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-Mff23hgidqmHGqbcv.lfskakEtS6qLVHUEMFUG4-?cq=1&p=56

Best not to have a full stomach when you look at it, as you might make quite a mess of yourself.  It is really hard to look at it and have still have any positive thoughts about Hillary.

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By Robert, June 15, 2007 at 4:41 am Link to this comment

(continued from previous comment)

We stayed there for about 9 weeks. My family and I made a commitment to tell the truth about what we saw, witnessed and experienced from our trip to the Holy Land. So there you go…just wanted to share a little background with you. It may help to understand where my drive for the TRUTh comes from.

I am NOT anti-Jewish. I am anti-Zionism, Israel’s RACISM/APARTHEID policies that the Israeli government and its brutal IDF have gruesomely enforced on the Palestinians for several terrible decades.

It is FORTUNATE that there are many JEWS who are for TRUTH, peace, moral justice and against the many horrible crimes committed by Zionists against the Palestinians from the 1940’s to this date.

I have high respect for Norman Finkelstein, Noam Chomsky, Sara Roy, Tanya Rheinhart, Amira Haas, Uri Avnary, Gideon Levi, Nurit-Peled Elhanan, Rabbis and many other Jews who are on the side of TRUTH, moral justice, peace, human rights, international law, UN Resolutions, Geneva Convention Charter.

They are NOT on the side of the brutal / racist zionism of Ariel Sharon, Menachem Begin, Iztshak Shamir, Ben Netanyahu, Ehud Olmert, Israel’s military generals, Israel’s brutal IDF soldiers and the fanatic zionist zealots.

I would like to ask/request for you to read an article by Dr. Nurit-Peled Elhanan, an Israeli professor. This compassionate Jewish mother writes about the children of the Israelis & the Palestinians…the victims of this tragic conflict.
——————————————————————————-

“We Are All Victims of the Occupation”

Let Our Children Live

By Nurit-Peled Elhanan       01/29/2007


Here is the link to this outstanding article:

http://www.counterpunch.org/peled01292007.html

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By Robert, June 15, 2007 at 3:02 am Link to this comment

Comment #78055 by Michael Shaw on 6/14 at 2:04 pm

“My point is with all the bad we are constantly bombarded with, we hear very little about the good, the Jewish Peace Movement. Groups like “Rabbi’s for human Rights”, or “Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions.” Groups like these who are having real time communications with their Palestinian counterparts to make a better way of life for both peoples who are in fact all Semites, their only separation being religion.”
—————————————————————————
Michael,

First of all…thanks for the personal introduction of your background. Your comment reflects a lot of who you are. It reflects that you do care genuinely for peace, truth, justice, friendship and being around people.

I believe in telling the TRUTH. The TRUTH has a lasting sting to it when it comes from anyone or from any direction.

I am an American, I am not an Arab, I am not from the Mid-East. I have no Arab blood in me either from my father side (Italian) nor from my mother’s side (Irish).

I had very little or close to nothing knowledge regarding the Mid-East and the Arab/Palestinian-Israeli conflict. It was only when I read a book, “They Dare To Speak Out”, by Paul Findley, that I really started to search for what this topic/matter was all about. Findley’s book sort of removed that cloudy film that was sealing my vision for many years.

A few years after graduating from college, I got a job as a consultant, in the Mid-East, for an American company. I worked in the Mid-East for 3 years. It was my first time to be in that part of the world. I found the people very friendly, helpful, generous, and very welcoming to their homes for lunch, dinner and other occasions. Generosity was part of their culture, ways and customs. To be stingy & not welcome a guest with genuine generosity is almost taboo. The people had dreams and goals that were similar to the rest of the people in the world. Good education for the kids, better future, dreams, better jobs…etc…

Anyway, a few years ago, my wife, my kids and I traveled to Israel and the Palestinian areas. It was was about 2 weeks before Christmas. We visited Tel Aviv, Haifa, Nazareth, Jerusalem, Bethlehem, and several Palestinian towns and villages.

The people were friendly. We really felt safe and at home. We met several Palestinian (Christian & Moslem) families. They welcomed us into their homes with open arms. To this day, my wife, my kids and I are in touch with them. They really made some very lasting impressions on us under the severe conditions that the Israeli occupation has placed on them. They have taught us what the meaning of humility & TRUTH are. We heard their horror saga of events regarding the occupation and Israel’s brutal IDF.

We witnessed several gruesome & harsh incidents by the IDF. We saw the long lines of Palestinian women, children, and others at the mercy of these young IDF soldiers on the many Israeli gates/checkpoints between the Palestinian towns and villages.

One of our biggest surprise/shock came when we were leaving and heading back to the U.S. It was at Tel Aviv airport. We could not believe what we witnessed. We were totally shocked at the way the Israeli Palestinians (Christian & Moslem) were treated by the Israeli airport personnel. All western & Israeli (Jewish) travelers went through within minutes. The Palestinians were just standing in their places and waiting for their turns. They were at the mercy of their Israeli Jewish “MASTERS”. It was worst scene & the most gruesome form of RACISM.

I’ll never forget the look on their faces. It really was sad. One could see and feel their injustice. According to the people that we spoke with at the airport…for most of them…it was hours getting through the Israeli routine system that happens to be for them.

(Continued in next comment)

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By atheo, June 14, 2007 at 10:22 pm Link to this comment

Joe Lieberman denies warmongering


————————————————————————————————————————
Hilary Leila Krieger, THE JERUSALEM POST Jun. 15, 2007

————————————————————————————————————————

US Senator Joe Lieberman defended himself Wednesday from criticism that he is pressing for war with Iran, telling The Jerusalem Post he merely wants to strengthen US diplomacy with a credible threat of force.

After Lieberman told CBS’s Face the Nation Sunday that the US had to be prepared to use “aggressive military action” against Iran because of its behavior in Iraq, he faced a barrage of criticism that he was warmongering.

Zbigniew Brzezinski, former president Jimmy Carter’s national security adviser, said political leaders such as Lieberman, “echoed by some powerful lobbyists, are actually at the moment pushing the military option.”

Perceiving the comments as referring to the pro-Israel lobby, the Anti-Defamation League slammed Brzezinski for giving weight to conspiracy theories about Jews hawkishly controlling government policy on Iran…
===================

Like everyone in Washington, Zbiggy knows who is doing what to whom and I doubt that he will let himself be silenced. I suspect as the disaster of US policy in Iraq, a war orchestrated by pro-Israel Jewish neocons and pushed by the Jewish Zionist lobby, continues to unravel, there will be more public criticism of the lobby from officials who don’t want to be too close when it goes down. And yes, it will go down. Meanwhile, it’s time people began showing up in some numbers at the door of the various ADL offices and tell them to take their comments to the “flat earth” folks, or better still,  take the truth about the lobby to the public through call in shows and letters to the editor with copies to members of Congress.-Jeffrey Blankfort

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By cann4ing, June 14, 2007 at 9:43 pm Link to this comment

In 2000, Lieberman probably would have been delighted to be Bush’s running mate, but Cheney beat him to it.  As much as I admire Al Gore’s take on the environment, I have to question his judgment in chosing this AIPAC-hugging, Republi-crat.

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By Michael Shaw, June 14, 2007 at 9:07 pm Link to this comment

Hey Patrick Henry we need to ban lobbies from donating to political campaigns. We also need to provide free and equal time on the airwaves we are supposed to own! Corporate campaign financing, be it foreign or domestic is the biggest problem we’ve got and it has to stop. The forefathers are rolling in their graves, particularly Thomas Jefferson and James Madison. Probably Patrick Henry too!

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By Michael Shaw, June 14, 2007 at 8:53 pm Link to this comment

Hey John U I agree with your assessment of Lieberman. However let’s not forget the neocon agenda either based upon the Wolfowitz Doctrine and calling for unilateral preemptive post Soviet strikes on potential rivals and control of most of the world’s natural gas and oil. The New World Order! What is transpiring here is more so a rich against the rest of us situation. It does neither our own basic citizenry or the basic citizenry of Israel any good. Just creates more enemies for both of us, paints bigger targets on our backs and puts us deeper in debt.. But hey, business couldn’t be better! Particularly if you ask defense contractors and energy corporations.

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By Michael Shaw, June 14, 2007 at 8:34 pm Link to this comment

Correction Stone Acre Farm. It was in Stonington.

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By Michael Shaw, June 14, 2007 at 8:31 pm Link to this comment

Thanks for the reassurances Mike Mid City. Didn’t know Coulter was from there but hell, you can’t blame an entire society for one individual or even two concerning Lieberman.

As for Peter Reilly, I can’t say as I remember that case you speak of. That was back around the time Ted Bundy was on the loose. I think I was in Connecticut at that time you speak of. If my memory serves 73 was about the same time my nephew was diagnosed with Lyme Disease. In fact he was the first in the nation to be diagnosed with this. He and a couple of his friends all went camping and came down with it. They were bitten by deer ticks. Fortunately he survived.

For more Connecticut trivia, my brother in law was an environmental scientist who once lived in Westport with my sister and their kids. They met the Newman’s and Cary Grant who had a big Monticello type summer estate there. I’ve seen the place. Also my nieces and nephew used to play with Newman’s kids. He had two girls then. I saw them once playing in the county youth museum. Cute blond haired kids. Thought they were a bit spoiled but it was enjoyable just the same. My sister and brother in law liked Paul and Joanne. Cary too! But of course they were all democrats. Hard to think of big money being that way by today’s standards.

My fondest memories of Connecticut come from Stonington Farm. It was a small dairy just south of the Rhode Island border. I loved that place. Even had a cow manure fight in the barn after falling off a cow into a big pile of it in front of my nieces and nephew. They laughed and the manure began to fly. My sister had to hose us down before we could get back into the house. Fresh eggs every morning, a pig named Arnold, a trout stream running through the pasture. You couldn’t beat it.

I imagine things have changed quite a bit since then. All I can say is if so, too bad!

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By John U., June 14, 2007 at 8:20 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Lieberman is nothing but a warmonger trying to offload Isreal’s dirty work onto American lives and taxpayers, just like Iraq. His Iran project is another fiasco in the making. Shame on Connecticut for putting him back in.

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By atheo, June 14, 2007 at 7:27 pm Link to this comment

@ w mast

The AIPAC spying trial has been delayed yet again, it seems that this story gets as little ink in the “alternative” press as the MSM.

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By PatrickHenry, June 14, 2007 at 7:27 pm Link to this comment

I wonder why we don’t hear more about the AIPAC trial going on right now. 

It’s far more important than Paris.

I bet Sen. Lieberman (I-Israel) knows all the players intimately.

Term limits on lobbiests too.

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By Michael Shaw, June 14, 2007 at 7:24 pm Link to this comment

Oh! and Mike mid City, I have long had relatives in Connecticut. Still have a niece and grand niece there. As a youth I used to summer in Mystic, Connecticut. Even visited Electric Boat and shot pool on the sub base. I even at one point nearly joined the US Coast Guard Academy for officers training. I know Connecticut like the back of my hand. Always loved that state! My sister who lived there for years can’t stand Lieberman. She doesn’t like Hilary much either since she now resides in New York.

As for conservative democrats go, you’re right! There are plenty of them there and even here in California.for me Feinstein comes to mind and is of a similar mold as our friend Lieberman. Frankly I have no problem with true conservatism. What I cannot except is the bastardized, bizzaro world version the neocons have come up with and I couldn’t believe he won in 2004 either. Had lots of underhanded help both times around.

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By Michael Shaw, June 14, 2007 at 7:05 pm Link to this comment

Hey Mid Town. Hope I didn’t lose a friend.

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By Michael Shaw, June 14, 2007 at 7:03 pm Link to this comment

Hey atheo! Well granted I stretched it a bit with Chomsky. He is a reformed Zionist though, psycholinguistics expert extraordinaire and someone who hails from my old home town. He also has a remarkable handle on the Mid East crisis too. I felt including him was necessary to make my point.

As for lefty, I have enough Jewish blood in me to be accepted as a Jew and be granted Israeli citizenship. But alas in the most orthodox realities, since it was my father who was Jewish and not my mother, who in fact was a Roman Catholic of English and Scottish decent, I cannot claim that I myself am a Jew. I never said I was a Jew either. I said my father was and my grandparents were. So what does that make me? I’ll let you decide. But I already know who I am and where my loyalties stand. I was simply wondering if you did?

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By atheo, June 14, 2007 at 6:31 pm Link to this comment

I’m sorry, I should have addressed that last comment to Mike Shaw.

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By atheo, June 14, 2007 at 6:30 pm Link to this comment

Max,

You make a better ambassador for Jews than lefti, one would think that he would realise that his supremacist, hatemongering is counterproductive. You lost me on Chomsky though, he’s an unreconstructed Israel lobby denier.

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By Michael Shaw, June 14, 2007 at 4:05 pm Link to this comment

Hey lefty! Are you really a lefty or are you talking about being south paw?

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By Michael Shaw, June 14, 2007 at 3:04 pm Link to this comment

I’d like to add some things in here if I may. First of all I am the son of a Jewish father, a guy who was raised on Synagogue and the Presbyterian Church. My grandmother was the daughter of Greek Jews. She was born in Kansas City Missouri and eventually made her way back to Philadelphia where she met and married my Presbyterian Grandfather. While living out west, my great grandparents ran a trading post. During the “troubles”, when Native Americans came into the post, my great grandparents used to literally hide my grandmother in a sugar barrel. She was born in 1869.

That said, I never knew my grandmother. She died from diabetes complications long before I was born. I only know what my father told me about her. He was born in 1908 in Philadelphia, her baby out of six. He grew up and joined the army between the two great wars, became an overhead crane operator in a ship yard that built some of the finest ships that served us in WW2 and beyond, was pro-union and an organizer for the CIO. If he were alive today he’d tell you he ducked more Pinkerton/police batons and bullets than most, was devoutly anti-Hitler and anti fascist and he would also have been the first to tell you that creating a Euro-Jewish State in the heart of Islam was a mistake that will haunt us for many years to come.

That said, great wrongs have been done by the Israeli government. The victimizing of the Palestinians en mass is but one example. The Likud party gaining power virtually through assassination is another and with the help of GWB together they ended the possibilities of an actual peace settlement that was well on its way in becoming a reality. That’s what Shimon Perez said when the Sharon government openly called for the assassination of Yassar Arafat. By the current look of things he was right! It took great courage on his part to admit that!

My point is with all of the bad we are constantly bombarded with, we hear very little about the good, the Jewish Peace Movement. Groups like “Rabbi’s for Human Rights”, or “The Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions.” Groups like these who are having real time communications with their Palestinian counterparts to make a better way of life for both peoples who are in fact all Semites, their only separation being religion. Then of course we have Norman Finkelstein who went ahead and reported on Israeli human rights violations in spite of being threatened by the Likud Party. Or how about those 50 odd Israeli pilots who refused to fly sorties to strafe unarmed Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza? Or how about Noam Chomsky!?! There are plenty of good Jews out there risking more than their standing and no one should forget that. They don’t all agree in lockstep with Likud, Bush or Lieberman either.

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By Mudwollow, June 14, 2007 at 2:29 pm Link to this comment

You know, Lieberman has a point. Why did we go to all the trouble of developing the neutron bomb if we are not going to use it? There are really only two logistical problems. How can we kill everyone in the Middle East without hurting Israelis? And will our oil, under their soil, become too radioactive to burn in our SUVs?

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By Robert, June 14, 2007 at 1:28 pm Link to this comment

There you go folks…“Lefty=ephraim pesach”...got exposed & his bare zionist behind is out there for all readers/commenters to see who this racist phony is.

Ephraim…you are impacted with your zionism’s ideolody teachings of hatred & PURE racism. Where did you get all these brainwashing teachings & initiations of such extreme proportions for such hatred & racism? Was it in the u.S. or Israel? Can Arab American families & their children TRUST you?

You sound like the Jewish American/Israeli assassin/terrorist…Baruch Goldstein. He massacred more than 2 dozen Palestinians while they were praying in their mosque. One can google search…baruch goldstein for more details.

You are an explosive “ZIONIST” extremist. You are spewing trash, hatred, racism & zionist propaganda on truthdig’s threads constantly.

Everyone is fed up with your idiotic posts. You have no substance and certainly NO TRUTH.

PS: Just returning the many favors back at you…zionist lefty/ephraim! You can dish, but you can’t take it…eh!

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By Michael Shaw, June 14, 2007 at 1:15 pm Link to this comment

Wow! Have things really quickly gotten out of hand. Even I feel partly to blame since I had suggested in my first post that Lieberman should move to Israel. The real problem here is that politicians in general are more intent in satisfying those who present them with the most campaign finance, they’ve forgotten their duties concerning the general well being. In this respect Lieberman is no different then any of the rest of them regardless of party affiliation. Now we’ve got Arab infiltrators on one side and Zionists on the other. As civil war is breaking out throughout the middle east, so to does it rear it’s ugly head in here.

The bottom line is simple. Lieberman would have made a lousy president.

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By atheo, June 14, 2007 at 1:12 pm Link to this comment

@ [sic]lefti

Keep repeating your lies, nobody hear believes them.
Only a true bigot would.

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By atheo, June 14, 2007 at 1:08 pm Link to this comment

@ John

No offense, I just don’t value wikipedia.

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By Matt, June 14, 2007 at 12:58 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Lefty writes:

“On the other hand, it is indisputable that Iran, and the arab muslim nations, have expressly stated that Israel has no right to exist, and that they intend to destroy Israel.”

No; THAT IS A LIE, Lefty.

Ahmadinejad stated that the Israeli racial supremacist regime, like other unjust regimes of the past, such as those of the Soviet Union, South Africa, and Saddamist Iraq, someday “must vanish from the page of time.” That is a prediction of the eventual demise of a bad regime, not a threat to undertake military action in order to make it happen, and not a threat of physical annihilation of the country.

It is not a threat at all.

He was only saying that the Israeli regime is so inherently bad that it can’t last forever. US leaders used to say this kind of thing all the time about the Soviet Union. Was this a threat of invasion? No. Were we saying that we planned to accomplish the physical destruction of that country and murder all its inhabitants? No.

You are twisting Ahmadinejad’s expression of distaste for Israel’s racist governing ideology- a distaste shared by many peaceable people all over the world - into a threat of military attack and physical annihilation. You are full of baloney.

STOP LYING, Lefty.

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By Matt, June 14, 2007 at 12:38 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Even IF Iran is a potential future “existential threat” to Israel - and that’s a big “if” - since when is any nation morally required to do itself certain and grievous harm, possibly mortal harm - and right now - in order to prevent some hypothetical, future harm to another nation?

The threat to Israel is ridiculously hyped. It’s more accurate to say that Iran is a RIVAL to Israel: a strategic impediment to Israel’s expansionist, hegemonic goals.

But more importantly: to the extent that the threat is real, IT IS NOT A THREAT TO US!

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By John C. Bonser, June 14, 2007 at 12:21 pm Link to this comment

atheo - I was responding to someone who claimed that antisemitism cannot apply to Jews. I had no intention of offending you. However, when the shoe fits wear it!

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Robert's avatar

By Robert, June 14, 2007 at 11:39 am Link to this comment

Comment by Peter RV on 6/14

Peter RV…Joe Lieberman is a “Zionist Jewish Extremist”. He is a permanent member of the famous zionist “AIPAC(American Israel Public Affair Committee” organization. Joe Lieberman represents Israel more than he represents the U.S. His staunch support for Israel’s zionism with its racist & Apartheid systems is unrelenting. He pushed for the Iraq war & he fully supports it no matter what the American losses are. He supports all our American losses in resources & human lives…ALL BECAUSE IRAQ HAD WMD’S and because its ALL FOR ISRAEL!

He is pushing hard for the U.S. to attack IRAN…so that we will have another disaster on our hands. More American lives getting killed and more billions of dollars being wasted…All for Joe Lieberman’s…Israel.

Lieberman, AIPAC, the mainstream News Media and our elected officials NEVER bring up Israel’s massive undeclared nuclear, chemical and biological “WMD” weapons stockpiles. Why?

I would not doubt that Lieberman has dual citizenship. One for Israel and one for the US.
—————————————————————————
BTW, “Lefty” (aka), “Lefty/Ephraim Pesach”...He is a fanatic zionist zealot with extreme racism. He is posting comments on another thread, Chris Hedges “Looking Back on 40 Years of Occupation”, and advocating that Israel should “NUKE” the Arab countries and wipe out the Arab population. One can see “lefty=ephraim pesach’s” zionist & extemist racist comments on many of ‘trudig’s” threads. Check and see for yourself…he is deceptively being sort of…civil.. on this thread.

PS: “Lefty=ephraim pesach”...just thought to return the favor…Ephraim!

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