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Report

Looking Back on 40 Years of Occupation

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Posted on Jun 3, 2007
Israeli guard tower
AP Photo / Emilio Morenatti

With part of Israel’s security barrier in the background, a Palestinian woman shops for produce near the Kalandia checkpoint between Jerusalem and the West Bank city of Ramallah in April 2005.

By Chris Hedges

Israel captured and occupied the Gaza Strip and the West Bank 40 years ago this week.  The victory was celebrated as a great triumph, at once tripling the size of the land under Israeli control, including East Jerusalem.  It was, however, a Pyrrhic victory.  As the occupation stretched over the decades, it transformed and deformed Israeli society.  It led Israel to abandon the norms and practices of a democratic society until, in the name of national security, it began to routinely accept the brutal violence of occupation and open discrimination and abuse of Palestinians, including the torture of prisoners and collective reprisals for Palestinians attacks.  Palestinian neighborhoods, olive groves and villages were, in the name of national security, bulldozed into the ground.

Israel’s image has shifted from that of a heroic, open society set amid a sea of despotic regimes to that of an international pariah.  Israel’s West Bank separation barrier, built ostensibly to keep out Palestinian bombers, has also been used to swallow huge tracts of the West Bank into Israel.  Palestinian towns are ringed by Israeli checkpoints.  Major roads in the West Bank are reserved for Israeli settlers.  The U.N. estimates that about half the West Bank is now off-limits to Palestinians.  And every week there are new reports of Palestinian produce that is held up until it rots, pregnant women giving birth in cars because they cannot get to hospitals, and even senseless and avoidable deaths, such as one young woman who died recently when she couldn’t get through a checkpoint to her kidney dialysis treatment.

“We are raising commanders who are policemen,” former Israeli General Amiram Levine told the newspaper Maariv. “We ask them to excel at the checkpoint. What does it means to excel at the checkpoint?  It means being enough of a bastard to delay a pregnant woman from getting to the hospital.”

The occupation was benign at the beginning.  Israelis crossed into Palestinian territory to buy cheap vegetables, eat at local restaurants, spend the weekend in the desert oasis of Jericho and get their cars fixed.  The Palestinians were a pool of cheap labor and by the mid-1980s, 40 percent of the Palestinian workforce was employed in Israel.  The Palestinians flowed over the border to the shops and beaches of Tel Aviv.  But the second-class status of Palestinians, growing repression by Israeli authorities in the West Bank and Gaza and festering poverty saw Palestinians, most of them too young to remember the moment of occupation, rise up in December 1987 to launch six years of street protests.  The uprising eventually led to a peace accord between Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization led by Yasir Arafat.  Arafat, who had spent most of his life in exile, returned in triumph to Gaza. 

The Oslo Accords that followed momentarily heralded a new era, a moment of hope.  I was in Gaza when they were signed.  The Gaza Strip was awash in a giddy optimism.  Palestinian businessmen who had made their fortunes abroad returned to help build the new Palestinian state.  The radical Islamists seemed to shrink away.  Palestinian women threw off their head scarves and beauty salons sprouted on city streets.  There was a brief and shining sense that life could be normal, free from strife and violence, that finally Palestinians had a future.  But it all swiftly turned sour.  The 1995 assassination of Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin, coupled with mounting draconian restrictions on Palestinians to prevent them from entering Israel and keep them in submission, led to another uprising in 2000.  This one, which I also covered for The New York Times, was far more violent.  This latest uprising has led to the deaths of more than 4,300 Palestinians and 1,100 Israelis.  It ushered in an Israeli policy that saw Jewish settlers relocated from Gaza.  Gaza was then sealed off like a vast prison.  Israel also began to build a security barrier—at a cost of about $ 1 million per mile—in the West Bank.  When it is done, the barrier is expected to incorporate 40 percent of Palestinian land into the Israeli state. 

Israeli air strikes have, over the past year, decimated the infrastructure in Gaza, destroying bridges, power stations and civilian administration buildings.  The breakdown in law and order, coupled with the growing desperation in Gaza, has triggered an internecine conflict between Hamas and Fatah.  There are some 200 Palestinians who have died in clashes and street fighting between the two factions during the past year—more than one-third of those killed by Israel during the same period. 

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The Israeli abuses have been well documented, not only by international human rights organizations, but Israeli human rights groups such as B’Tselem.  On June 4, 2007, Amnesty International released a new 45-page report called “Enduring Occupation: Palestinians Under Siege in the West Bank,” which again illustrates the devastating impact of four decades of Israeli military occupation. The report documents the relentless expansion of unlawful settlements on occupied land.  It details the ways Israel has seized or denied crucial resources, such as water, to Palestinians under occupation.  It documents a plethora of measures that confine Palestinians to fragmented enclaves and hinder their access to work, health and education facilities. These measures include the 700-kilometer barrier or wall, more than 500 checkpoints and blockades, and a complicated system of permits to heavily restrict movement.

“Palestinians living in the West Bank are blocked at every turn. This is not simply an inconvenience—it can be a matter of life or death.  It is unacceptable that women in labor, sick children, or victims of accidents on their way to hospital should be forced to take long detours and face delays which can cost them their lives,” said Malcolm Smart, director of Amnesty International’s Middle East and North Africa Program. 

“International action is urgently needed to address the widespread human rights abuses being committed under the occupation, and which are fueling resentment and despair among a predominantly young and increasingly radicalized Palestinian population,” said Smart.  “For 40 years, the international community has failed to adequately address the Israeli-Palestinian problem; it cannot, must not, wait another 40 years to do so.”

Of Gaza’s 1.4 million residents, a staggering 1.1 million now depend on outside food assistance.  The World Food Program has identified Gaza as one of the world’s hunger global hot spots.  The WFP is a principal food aid provider to Palestinians, providing assistance to 640,000 Palestinians, more than a third of them in Gaza.

The desperation—with young men unable to find work, travel outside the Gaza Strip or West Bank and forced to sleep 10 to a room in concrete hovels without running water—has empowered the Islamic radicals.  The desperation has led the Palestinian population, once one of the most secular in the Middle East, to turn to radical fundamentalism.  The more pressure and violence Israel employs, the more these radicals are empowered.

The Israeli lobby in the United States is captive to the far right of Israeli politics.  It exerts influence not on behalf of the Jewish state but an ideological strain within Israel that believes it can crush Palestinian aspirations through force.  The self-defeating policies of the Bush administration are mirrored in the self-defeating policies championed by the hard-right administration of Prime Minister Ehud Olmert in Jerusalem.  Israel flouts international law and dismisses Security Council resolutions to respect the integrity of Palestinian territory.  It has instead trapped Palestinians in squalid, barricaded ghettos where they barely survive. 

It is not in Israel’s interest—or our own—to continue to fuel increased Palestinian strife and rising militancy.  Economic sanctions and an arms ban against Israel are our last hope.  These were the tools that toppled the apartheid regime in South Africa.  And it was, after all, the sanctions imposed by the first President Bush—he suspended $10 billion of loan guarantees for resettling Russian immigrants in Israel—that prodded right-wing Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir to attend peace talks in Madrid.

A trade embargo—even if imposed only by European states—would be a start.  It is outside pressure that can alone halt the inexorable slide into a conflict that could become regional.  And a new regional conflict with Israel could spell the end of the Zionist experiment in the Middle East.  It may be quixotic, perhaps even impossible, but it is the last measure left to save Israel from itself.

Chris Hedges is a veteran journalist and former Mideast bureau chief for The New York Times. His most recent book is “American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War On America.”


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nahida's avatar

By nahida, June 11, 2007 at 3:32 am Link to this comment

to lilmamzer #76301
part-1

you asked “Can you agree that Jews have a right to live as a free and independent nation in their homeland of Israel? “

Why should I –the Palestinian- be asked to give up my home to you; just because you are Jewish?

Why should I -the Palestinian- give up my homeland to you, so you can have self-determination; just because you are Jewish?

Why should I –the Palestinian- become a refugee in order for you to “colonies” my villages and towns; just because you are Jewish?

Why should I have to give up my home for a Russian, just because he is Jewish?

Why should I have to give up my home for a Polish, just because he is Jewish?

Why should I have to give up my home for an Ethiopian, just because he is Jewish?

Why should I have to give up my home for an American, just because he is Jewish?

Jewish people who are coming to occupy my Palestine, have their own countries, why claim mine and then drive me away from where my ancestors lived for millennia?

You want a homeland, go and get one on parts of Germany from those who persecuted you.
Or go and get a country in the USA where the number of Jewish people is the highest.

Why should I give up my home, farm, villages, towns, identity, and country in order for you to have self determination and build “your” society on the destruction of mine, just because you are Jewish?

Jewish people are not a nation, they are many ethnicities, they are not one race, nor do they originate from one geographical region or country.
Every ethnic group of them BELONGS to a different geographical region on this planet.

All they have in common is their religion…Yet they want the world to believe that they are one “nation”.

Descending from many different regions; they have no links with the land of Palestine except those of them who originated from Arabic/ Middle- Eastern descendents (i.e Palestinian Jews)

Do you want me to recognize your right to ethnically cleanse my people, so you and your people could colonize my country?

Do you want me to recognize your right to kick me out of my home and replace me with your ilk, just because they are Jewish and I am not?

NO sir…. not in your wildest derams

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nahida's avatar

By nahida, June 11, 2007 at 3:24 am Link to this comment

to lilmamzer #76301
part-2
Did the Zionists terrorists ever recognized “Palestine” or the Palestinians’ right to exist on their own land?

NO, of course not… Palestinians are not Jewish

Did they ever recognize my right to return home where I belong?

NO, of course not… I am not Jewish

Now, I question the morality and ethical grounds on which “Israel” was founded. When the Zionists adopted Palestine as a homeland for all the Jewish people they ignored the fact that Palestine had already its own native Palestinian inhabitants, with a very small Jewish minority of 2.5%.

The early Jewish refugees did not come with olive branches in their hands; rather they came with tanks and machine guns, they engaged in extensive terror attacks on the native Palestinians, they were building their armed forces ever since until it became the forth most powerful state in the world today.

To make the problem more comprehensible I will draw on this analogy: Britain today has about 2.5% Muslim minority some are natives and some are immigrants (which was exactly the case in Palestine in the 1900’s).
If Muslims started calling for establishing a homeland in the UK for all persecuted Muslims in the world on the expense of its native British will that be morally acceptable?

What if those refugees came fully armed and started murdering their hosts in order to drive them out to Europe, claiming that they are Europeans and Europe is big enough for all British people! What if those refugees claimed that God gave them this land and establishing an Islamic state in Britain is a divine right? Unfortunately this is the very grounds on which the state of “Israel” was established on the land of Palestine.

The continuous existence of such a state is MORALLY QUESTIONABLE; as by definition “”Israel” is a Jewish state; in order to maintain its exclusive “Jewishness” it denies millions of exiled Palestinians the right of return to their homes and their families ignoring their basic human rights. When Hitler called for a purely Arian state the world got up in arms against such an exclusive racists regime.

The continuous existence of such a state is LEGALLY INVALID; as Israel’s recognition as a state (by the United Nations and the International community) was conditional to Israel abiding by UN resolutions including the right of return of Palestinians; which were never implemented by Israel, so even the legal grounds of the existence of Israel is not present.

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nahida's avatar

By nahida, June 11, 2007 at 3:20 am Link to this comment

to lilmamzer #76301
part-3
Why should the Palestinians recognize “Israel’s” right to exist as a JEWISH state, which will have the prior demand that they must give up completely on their right of return; because if that right was to be implemented, It will spontaneously erode “Israel” as a purely Jewish state, and that would contradict the precondition of Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish state.

How can a state be recognized when the very foundation on which it was established are immoral? How such a state should continue to exist when by its very definition it is insular, exclusive, and racist?

What I hope to see is an all inclusive state of Palestine on the whole land of historic Palestine where all races, religions living side by side on equal grounds.

A state where no group of its population has more rights or advantages over the others just because of their “Jewishness”.

A state with no walls between its peoples; where no one is denied their basic human rights for their religious or non-religious beliefs, no one is denied justice for their race; no one is prevented from returning to their homes on the basis of their lack of Jewishness.
If that should mean an end to a racist exclusive Jewish state so be it.

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Robert's avatar

By Robert, June 10, 2007 at 8:11 pm Link to this comment

Posts by “stenchy/lefty=ephraim pesach” 6/10:

Wow…“stenchy/lefty=ephraim”...is this all you got you give us on this forum? Is this really your best and your best performance? Surely…NOT!

A BABOON with one weeks training & half a box of ripe bannanas…can out perform you & your posts.

This BABOON is perched on your ‘manure filled stall gate’...and screaming… “I am…LMAO” at “stenchy/lefty=ephraim’s” ignorant performance! “I see EVIL, I hear EVIL…and lefty=ephraim speaks EVIL”.

Give us your BEST shot. Surely you can out perform a half-way trained BABOON. CAN’T YOU?

Stenchy/lefty=ephraim…Give us your best. Let us see what you have in academic brilliance & performance. That BABOON on your stall gate is waiting impatiently for his turn.

Go ahead let us see what you have. Give us something NEW. Surely you are capable of out performing that BABOON… whose next step is to knock you down with his better performance?

Please don’t let us down…Let us see what you have! YOU MUST BE A BALL OF FIRE!

BTW, Norman Finkelstein is a man who cares about “TRUTH” and he does NOT like EVIL LIARS.

He really is brilliant academic scholar!

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Tony Wicher's avatar

By Tony Wicher, June 10, 2007 at 7:31 pm Link to this comment

Re #76899 by Ernest Canning on 6/10 at 5:46 pm
(312 comments total)

“Sadly, such actions have a disturbing historical antecedent when, during the waning days of the Weimar Republic, the Nazis undertook to expell all pacifist and Jewish professors from German academia.

Score at DePaul:  Fascisim 1, Academic Freedom 0.”

Yeah - slime buckets 1, scholars 0. Lies 1, Honesty 0. Garbage 1, Quality 0. Smear everything. Drench everything with garbage. Shout lies, drown out the truth. These are the tactics of Nazis and Zionists.

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By bigjimbo, June 10, 2007 at 7:20 pm Link to this comment

A point to keep in mind.  Even though 90+ percent of neocons are Jewish, indeed draft dodging cowardly slimeballs, despising neocons does not make you an antisemite.

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By cann4ing, June 10, 2007 at 6:46 pm Link to this comment

In comment #76765 Tony Wicher quotes Fr. Holtschneider as claiming that “academic freedom” is alive and well at DePaul and that outside interest and debate over the Finkelstein tenure position was “unwelcome.”

Sorry, Fr. Hotshcneider but when you permit an outside Zionist, Alan Dershowitz, to interfere with an internal application for tenure of one of your own professors, when you permit a Dean, under pressure from such outside influence, to overrule the considered academic judgment of a faculty committee of your university’s department of political science and a personnel committee of your College of Liberal Arts & Science, when the only reason for denying tenure to such an eminently qualified academic is his willingness to tackle a subject that has become taboo, the illegal 40 year Israeli occupation of Palestine, in general, and the misrepresentations of Mr. Dershowitz in particular, it can no longer be said that “academic freedom is alive and well at DePaul University.”  What you have done is the antithesis of academic freedom, an act that will have a chilling effect on the willingness of all other faculty in terms of their willingness to tackle any controversial subject.

Sadly, such actions have a disturbing historical antecedent when, during the waning days of the Weimar Republic, the Nazis undertook to expell all pacifist and Jewish professors from German academia.

Score at DePaul:  Fascisim 1, Academic Freedom 0.

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By lilmamzer, June 10, 2007 at 4:32 pm Link to this comment

#76860 by Peter RV
Zionists are indeed buying our representatives by pricing them ,like - pigs.

Care to share the evidence? Who pays what to whom? When? Where is your evidence?
Perhaps American lawmakers prefer Israel to Jihadists because, well, the Jihadists are Jihadists.
====================

It is a horror to think that these political mercenaries have been deciding in our name, to devastate the whole countries for the sake of Israel’s “security”.

What’s interesting about this statement is the scare-quotes around the word security. As if Jews don’t deserve to live free from fear of shooting attacks, bomb attacks, knife attacks? What kind of double-standard is that? Jews aren’t really being slaughtered by Arabs? It’s fake?

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By Peter RV, June 10, 2007 at 3:11 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Ref.#76785 by Robert

  Robert,
Thank you for the link.
Zionists are indeed buying our representatives by pricing them ,like - pigs.
What a disgrace for the George Washington’s Republic.
It is a horror to think that these political mercenaries have been deciding in our name, to devastate the whole countries for the sake of Israel’s “security”.
It is clear by now that our political system is rotten to the core and that it’ll take nothing short of a revolution to bring it back to its original foundation. But, it has to be done.
The alternative is a catastrophy.
(BTW, giving undisputed facts to the goons is, what Romans used to call,” margarita ante porcos”)

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Tony Wicher's avatar

By Tony Wicher, June 10, 2007 at 2:01 pm Link to this comment

Re #76801 by lilmamzer on 6/10 at 2:49 pm
(120 comments total)

“Finkelstein has failed.”

Yes, and schlockmeisters like you and Dershowitz have succeeded. Congratulations.

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Tony Wicher's avatar

By Tony Wicher, June 10, 2007 at 1:45 pm Link to this comment

#76801 by lilmamzer on 6/10 at 6:49 am
(120 comments total)

“The bottom line is Finkelstein is not a scholar but an ideologue and there is a huge difference.”

lil,

Real scholars - which obviously do not include you - know good scholarship without the stamp of approval of academic politicians at some second-rate college. So go ahead, smear your slime all over the place. No one can stop you.

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By lilmamzer, June 10, 2007 at 7:49 am Link to this comment

The bottom line is

Finkelstein is not a scholar but an ideologue

and there is a huge difference.

DePaul University knows the difference - after all, it’s their business to know.

Publish or perish - in peer-reviewed academic journals. Finkelstein has failed.

Good riddance.

And in other news…...

[url=“http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/06/10/wirq310.xml”]
Palestinians shoot me and Jews treat me[/url]

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Robert's avatar

By Robert, June 10, 2007 at 3:11 am Link to this comment

Peter RV;

RE: ITW comment #76735 on 6/9 at 7:32 pm

“Zionists buying up all the politicians” “Vast Zionist conspiracy”

Facts mean nothing to you. I pity you.”

—————————————————————————

Here are some facts for ITW and others… hopefully they’ll mean something to him. No pity though…

Please check out what your US Senators & Congressman/woman in your state & other states have received from PRO-ISRAEL PAC:

==================================================

Pro-Israel PAC Contributions to 2006 Congressional Candidates:

Here is the link for the $$$ numbers & year to date:


http://www.wrmea.com/archives/May-June_2006/0605031.html

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By Peter RV, June 10, 2007 at 2:56 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Ref.#76735 by Inherit the Wind.
Very touched by your pitying me.
Now, what are your arguments, smarty pants ?

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Robert's avatar

By Robert, June 10, 2007 at 12:28 am Link to this comment

FYI:


US CAMPAIGN TO END THE ISRAELI OCCUPATION.

Check the dates: June 10 & 11 Mobilization in Washington, D.C. to protest the 40 years of Israeli occupation.

Phyllis Bennis


http://www.endtheoccupation.org

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Robert's avatar

By Robert, June 10, 2007 at 12:20 am Link to this comment

Tony…thanks for the update on Finkelstein tenure status. I saw it posted earlier today on his website.

Finkelstein has that moral courage to speak the “TRUTH”. He is consistent with his commitments to exposing lies and propaganda. He exposed Joan Peters book…her book was a hoax & a fraud.

BTW, Finkelstein has one more year at DePaul. There is a better future for him…on the horizon; I am sure of that.

ALL THE VERY BEST TO YOU Norman Finkelstein & YOUR FAMILY. MANY THANKS FOR ALL THAT YOU DO FOR CONVEYING & REPORTING THE “TRUTH”!

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Tony Wicher's avatar

By Tony Wicher, June 10, 2007 at 12:20 am Link to this comment

Following are some remarks by Noam Chomsky in an interview with Amy Goodman on the Finkelstein tenure case:

NOAM CHOMSKY: The whole thing is outrageous. I mean, he’s an outstanding scholar. He has produced book after book. He’s got recommendations from some of the leading scholars in the many areas in which he has worked. The faculty—the departmental committee unanimously recommended him for tenure. It’s amazing that he hasn’t had full professorship a long time ago.

And, as you were saying, there was a huge campaign led by a Harvard law professor, Alan Dershowitz, to try in a desperate effort to defame him and vilify him, so as to prevent him from getting tenure. The details of it are utterly shocking, and, as you said, it got to the point where the DePaul administration called on Harvard to put an end to this.

AMY GOODMAN: That’s very significant, for one university to call on the leadership of another university to stop one of its professors.

NOAM CHOMSKY: To stop this maniac, yeah. What’s behind it? It’s very simple and straightforward. Norman Finkelstein wrote a book, which is in fact the best compendium that now exists of human rights violations in Israel and the blocking of diplomacy by Israel and the United States, which I mentioned—very careful scholarly book, as all of his work is, impeccable—also about the uses of anti-Semitism to try to silence a critical discussion.

And the framework of his book was a critique of a book of apologetics for atrocities and violence by Alan Dershowitz. That was the framework. So he went through Dershowitz’s shark claims, showed in great detail that they are completely false and outrageous, that he’s lying about the facts, that he’s an apologist for violence, that he’s a passionate opponent of civil liberties—which he is—and he documented it in detail.

Dershowitz is intelligent enough to know that he can’t respond, so he does what any tenth-rate lawyer does when you have a rotten case: you try to change the subject, maybe by vilifying opposing counsel. That changes the subject. Now we talk about whether, you know, opposing counsel did or did not commit this iniquity. And the tactic is a very good one, because you win, even if you lose. Suppose your charges against are all refuted. You’ve still won. You’ve changed the subject. The subject is no longer the real topic: the crucial facts about Israel, Dershowitz’s vulgar apologetics for them, which sort of are reminiscent of the worst days of Stalinism. We’ve forgotten all of that. We’re now talking about whether Finkelstein did this, that and the other thing. And even if the charges are false, the topic’s been changed. That’s the basis of it.

Dershowitz has been desperate to prevent this book from being—first of all, he tried to stop it from being published, in an outlandish effort, which I’ve never seen anything like it, hiring a major law firm to threaten libel suits, writing to the governor of California—it was published by the University of California Press. When he couldn’t stop the publication, he launched a jihad against Norman Finkelstein, simply to try to vilify and defame him, in the hope that maybe what he’s writing will disappear. That’s the background.

The whole article is at

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=979

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Tony Wicher's avatar

By Tony Wicher, June 10, 2007 at 12:02 am Link to this comment

Well, friends, I guess this means we have to score one for lilmamzer, Dershowitz and the other Zionist political attack dogs who have successfully savaged this fine scholar, or so they think.  There are certain objective standards for scholarship, and Finkelstein’s work is both prolific and of the highest quality. This has every earmark there can be of a crude academic hatchet job engineered by Dershowitz. The reputation of one injured by such tactics will only shine more brightly. Good luck, Norman. You can do a lot better than DePaul anyway.   

June 09, 2007
DePaul Statement on Finkelstein Tenure Decision
DePaul University Statement on the Tenure and Promotion Decision Concerning Professor Norman Finkelstein

06.08.2007

DePaul University confirms that it informed Professor Norman Finkelstein today that Rev. Dennis Holtschneider, C.M., DePaul president, upheld a recommendation by the University Board on Promotion and Tenure (UBPT) - the final stage in the faculty review process - to deny his application for tenure and promotion.

Granting tenure equates to a guarantee of lifetime employment, and the same standards are applied to all faculty members under consideration. In every case, the final decision is one of balancing the various arguments for and against tenure. The tenure process, which is detailed in DePaul’s Faculty Handbook, involves a rigorous review of each applicant’s scholarship, service and teaching, with the recommendations at each level forwarded up to the next level for consideration. It is an evaluation of faculty by faculty.

In Professor Finkelstein’s case, a faculty committee of the Department of Political Science voted in favor of tenure, submitting statements for the majority and minority, with a response from the majority. The Personnel Committee for the College of Liberal Arts and Sciences then voted to support tenure and promotion, with reservations that it asked the college dean to note in his report. Subsequently, the college’s dean issued a written opinion against tenure and the UBPT voted against tenure. The UBPT report and materials from the lower committees were forwarded to the president for review. As in all cases of tenure, the final decision was made by the president.

Fr. Holtschneider said, “According to DePaul’s Faculty Handbook, the president can overturn the UBPT’s recommendation in rare circumstances and for compelling reasons. I find no compelling reasons here to overturn the UBPT’s decision.”

Fr. Holtschneider continued, “Over the past several months, there has been considerable outside interest and public debate concerning this decision. This attention was unwelcome and inappropriate and had no impact on either the process or the outcome of this case.”

He added, “Some will consider this decision in the context of academic freedom. In fact, academic freedom is alive and well at DePaul. It is guaranteed both as an integral part of the University’s scholarly and religious heritage, and as an essential condition of effective inquiry and instruction. On a daily basis, DePaul faculty and students explore the most important ideas of our time, including difficult and contentious issues, and they do so in ways that adhere to professional standards of academia and respect the dignity and worth of each individual.”

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Robert's avatar

By Robert, June 9, 2007 at 10:50 pm Link to this comment

40 Years of Lies

Believe It or Not in the Middle East

By Robert Fisk

June 9 /10, 2007


“Only the president of France, General de Gaulle, moved into the political isolation by telling a press conference several months later that Israel “is organising, on the territories which it has taken, an occupation which cannot work without oppression, repression and expulsion - and if there appears resistance to this, it will in turn be called ‘terrorism’”. This accurate prophecy earned reproof from the Nouvel Observateur - to the effect that “Gaullist France has no friends; it has only interests.” And Believe It or Not, with the exception of one small Christian paper, there was in the entire French press one missing word: Palestinians.”


Here is the link to the rest of the details:

http://www.counterpunch.org/fisk06092007.html

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Robert's avatar

By Robert, June 9, 2007 at 8:36 pm Link to this comment

Comments(?) by “stenchy/lefty=ephraim pesach”


Wow…“stenchy/lefty=ephraim pesach”...how did you ever come up with those brilliant & dynamic comments!

I am sooooo…impressed with your intelectual abilities. I bet that you can stand up against Ilan Pappe, Finkelstein, Chomsky, Dr Nurit Peled-Elhanan…PhD…just to name a few! It makes us wonder just who is giving you all your zionist garbage propaganda to “type & post” on “truthdig”.

Your juvenile heckling is a reflection of the size of that pus filled abscess that is in your frontal lobe!

Your grunts, moans, groans & whining about our comments…can be heard coming out of your isolated manure filled…stall.

Is that all that you are capable of? A trained baboon can out do you…Ephraim!

You have been over-dosed on your sick zionism mode of therapy! Its time to get a seond opinion!

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By Inherit The Wind, June 9, 2007 at 8:32 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Peter RV:

You have exactly the same mentality as the KKK and the American Nazi Party. “Zionists buying up all the politicians” “Vast Zionist conspiracy”

Facts mean nothing to you. I pity you.

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By Peter RV, June 9, 2007 at 4:14 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Ref.#76555 by Inherit the Wind
On rat’s asses and Anti-Semitism.
Finally we agree on something.
True,you may say, we don’ give rat’s ass what happens in Darfur ( did you ever think this might be because the U.S. is not only not giving an unconditional support to the Sudan Government, but, it may come as a surprise to you, it has just anounced an embargo against Sudan. Would you mind if we did the same to Israel?)
True, you may say, we don’t give rat’s ass that Saudi Arabia y Syria make “top ten” (AIPAC’s evaluation?-never mind) (could it be that Syria is already on our hit list and Saudi Arabia is so fabulously rich that it doesn’ give a hoot for the American opinion. It maybe just none of our business what kind of political system they have).
True, we hardly give rat’s ass that 22 Arab nations do not permit self-determination to their minorities. Again, it is not known they use helicopters, tanks and buldozers, compliments of the U.S.A., to treat their minorities.
True, we don’t give rat’s ass for the internal strife among Muslims, as long as it is not fomented by our CIA ( and Mossad) death squads, which is usually the case. Besides, we have shown to be plain jackasses when it comes to understand any problems outside of our shores (come to think of it, we are far from brilliant when it comes to those within them).
As far as the Iraq War is concened, we have a sharp disagreement. We hold as evident ,the truth that AIPAC and other Jewish organizations are responsible for this immoral War, which was waged mainly to install Israel as a regional power in the ME. Never mind the money, over million of people would have been alive (your Rabbis may say, so what?)today if Wolfowits, Perle,Faith,Kristol, etc didn’t have such an influence in Washington. You seem to be unaware that Podgorets is already foaming from his mouth calling to nuke Iran. This is not the fairy tale of the Protocol of the Elders of Zion, to dispense with, with the traditional sneer.
We don’give rat’s ass there is no enough wealth in Israel to offset the lobbying effort of the rich oil states. Agreed, but the Zionist money is not in Israel, but in the U.S.A., along with massive Jewish Organizations which are not even declared as lobbies viz. AIPAC. Effectivness of these organizations can be judged by our lobsided pro-Israel policies which hve been flying in our faces for quite a while now.
Zionists are buying our politicians and candidates so blatantly, it is not even funny.
Finally, what you will always refuse to see is that what you call anti-Semitism is simply awareness to the reality that our Country has been used to promote Zionist dreams. We think we are growing in numbers because the events are confirming that we are right. What do you think of your side?
There are ,in fact, two realities you cannot accept.
First, the reality of the bestial treatment Israel daily inflinges on defenseless Palestinian population, since decades now.
What is intolerable to us, is not so much your cruelty, but the fact that our Nation has been accomplice to your inhumanity.
Second, you are dragging us into a catastrophy in your fanatical biblical delirium. If Israel wants to go that way, that is its business. The question is only to extricate the U.S. from its folly. I leave aside an argument that, even with all the help from the rest of us ,with all your nuclear bombs ,you can only pospone the inevitable final defeat. You have chosen the path of war and violence against one billion of Muslims. Imagine when that enraged mass starts to move with its inexhaustible supply of fighters
who don’t mind dying for Allah.
And, Israel already has no stomach for fighting measly Hezballah.

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By Inherit The Wind, June 9, 2007 at 4:12 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“They are NOT on the side of the BRUTAL, RACISM, APARTHEID ideologies of Zionism of Ariel Sharon, Benjamin Netanyahu, Ehud Olmert, Yitzhak Shamir, Menahem Begin,”

Robert, you may not believe this, but I happen to be very against these very same men.  But there’s a BIG difference between being opposed to the dangerous and idiotic policies of Benjamin “What-a-YAHOO” and opposing the existence of the state of Israel.  Ariel Sharon has been a loose cannon for 25 years—only as PM did he finally show some (if not a lot) of sense.

So how do you feel about the late Yitzach Rabin or Shimon Peres? Or Ehud Barack?  Rabin was murdered by a believer in Netanyahu’s policies, and opposed to Rabin’s very real shot at achieving true and lasting peace.

I guess the question I’m asking is: Is your opposition the right wing and Likud that have dominated and WARPED Israeli politics, or is it to the whole state of Israel as an entity?

I agree with the first—they’ve screwed things up as badly as if George W. Bush was their leader and, claiming religion have been incredibly stupid and sinful.

But I don’t agree with the second. Israel has a right to exist if Syria, Yemen, Libya and Saudi Arabia have the right to exist.

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By cann4ing, June 9, 2007 at 4:04 pm Link to this comment

Re comment #76638.  Robert, I can’t thank you enough for posting the link to such a powerful video.  It not only exposes the truth behind this brutal occupation, but, on a broader scale, the extent to which America’s corporate-owned mass media has degenerated into a propaganda network, easily manipulated not only by the Zionists but, in a broader sense, by the military-industrial complex and U.S. imperialism.  Especially powerful were the words of Robert Fiske to the effect that brutal illegality of the occupation has become “the last taboo subject in America.”

I also found the discussion of how the U.S. media, unlike media in both the UK and Israel, “always” portray clashes between Palestinians and the IDF as the “defense” of Israel, even when it occurs in the occupied territories and involves purely offensive action.  One comment by Noam Chomsky would appear to have equal application, whether applied to the IDF, U.S. Forces in Iraq or, for that matter, the German army in occupied France during WWII.  “You can’t defend yourself when you are occupying someone’s land.  Call it what you like.  It’s not defense.”

Of course, there is also the tired effort to hide the brutal reality with the Orwellian “war on terror.”  Any who would dare resist occupation are, of course, classified as “terrorists.”  That isn’t new.  It isn’t just the label slapped on Palestinians resisting Israeli occupation or Iraqis resisting the American occupation.  In fact, the Nazis designated all European resistance movements as “terrorists.”


The revelation of the concerted campaign to denounce any and all who speak out against this brutal and entirely illegal occupation and gradual ethnic cleansing as either anti-semitic or as “self-hating Jews” is, as Norm Finkelstein aptly describes it, truly “beyond Chutzpah”—a description that applies equally to the verbal assaults by Emphraim “Lefty” Pesach, lilmamzer, and the hot air flowing from Inherit the Wind.

That said, I also saw in this remarkable video, in the 2,000 Israeli & Palestinian women who staged a peace march in the middle of Jeruselem, in the hundreds of IDF “refusniks” who prefer jail to taking part in this abominable subjugation, and in the Israelis who joined with ordinary Palestinians in rebuilding homes that had been bulldozed by the IDF a ray of hope.

This one hour, 19 minute video is a must for anyone who desires to learn the truth about “40 years of occupation.”

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By Robert, June 9, 2007 at 3:02 pm Link to this comment

Comment #76554 by Peter RV on 6/9 at 4:06 am

PRV…what our friendly & civil/civility(?) zionist zealots are attempting to accomplish on this & other threads…is CRY ANTI-Semites, and DILUTE this forum or attempt to change the topic…etc…

ITW(howling in the wind)...is sounding like his other hysterical ranting zionist zealots.

I am NOT anti-Jewish, I am ANTI-ZIONISM and its RACISM & APARTHEID Israeli established policies. These racist policies are practiced & enforced on, the Palestinians, the victims of this tragic conflict.

There are many Jews who are for PEACE and against the horrific crimes committed by Zionists from the 1940’s to this day.

I have high respect for the Norman Finkelstein, Noam Chomsky, Uri Avnary, Sara Roy, Amira Haas, Tanya Rheinhart, Gideon Levi, Elliot Cohen and many other Jews who are on the side of TRUTH, MORAL JUSTICE & PEACE.

They are NOT on the side of the BRUTAL, RACISM, APARTHEID ideologies of Zionism of Ariel Sharon, Benjamin Netanyahu, Ehud Olmert, Yitzhak Shamir, Menahem Begin, the IDF generals, the IDF soldiers and the fanatic zionist ZEALOTS.

MORAL JUSTICE, EQUAL RIGHTS TO ALL ARE THE INGREDIENTS TO A LASTING PEACE.

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By Tony Wicher, June 9, 2007 at 2:51 pm Link to this comment

Defending Israel from democracy
Jonathan Cook, The Electronic Intifada, 5 June 2007


The second Palestinian intifada has been crushed. The 700km wall is sealing the occupied population of the West Bank into a series of prisons. The “demographic timebomb”—the fear that Palestinians, through higher birth rates, will soon outnumber Jews in the Holy Land and that Israel’s continuing rule over them risks being compared to apartheid—has been safely defused through the disengagment from Gaza and its 1.4 million inhabitants. On the fortieth anniversary of Israel’s occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, Israel’s security establishment is quietly satisfied with its successes.

But like a shark whose physiology requires that, to stay alive, it never sleeps or stops moving, Israel must remain restless, constantly reinventing itself and its policies to ensure its ethnic project does not lose legitimacy, even as it devours the Palestinian homeland. By keeping a step ahead of the analysts and worldwide opinion, Israel creates facts on the ground that cement its supremacist and expansionist agenda.

So, with these achievements under its belt, where next for the Jewish state?

I have been arguing for some time that Israel’s ultimate goal is to create an ethnic fortress, a Jewish space in expanded borders from which all Palestinians—including its 1.2 million Palestinian citizens—will be excluded. That was the purpose of the Gaza disengagement and it is also the point of the wall snaking through the West Bank, effectively annexing to Israel what little is left of a potential Palestinian state.

It should therefore be no surprise that we are witnessing the first moves in Israel’s next phase of conquest of the Palestinians. With the 3.7 million Palestinians in the occupied territories caged inside their ghettos, unable to protest their treatment behind fences and walls, the turn has come of Israel’s Palestinian citizens.

These citizens, today nearly a fifth of Israel’s population, are the legacy of an oversight by the country’s Jewish leaders during the ethnic cleansing campaign of the 1948 war. Ever since Israel has been pondering what to do with them. There was a brief debate in the state’s first years about whether they should be converted to Judaism and assimilated, or whether they should be marginalised and eventually expelled. The latter view, favoured by the country’s first prime minister, David Ben Gurion, dominated. The question has been when and how to do the deed.

The time now finally appears to be upon us, and the crushing of these more than one million unwanted citizens currently inside the walls of the fortress—the Achilles’ heel of the Jewish state—is likely to be just as ruthless as that of the Palestinians under occupation.


Read the rest of article at:

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article7001.shtml

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By Tony Wicher, June 9, 2007 at 2:07 pm Link to this comment

Israel’s former parliament speaker Avraham Burg has branded Israel as a ‘Zionist ghetto’ in ýhis newly-published book
Israel’s former parliament speaker has branded Israel as a ‘Zionist ghetto’, scoffing at the regime’s self-definition as a Jewish state.

In an interview published in Ha’aretz daily on Friday, Avraham Burg said that this self-definition is the key to the regime’s ruin.

“It [Israel] can’t work anymore. It’s explosive. It’s dynamite.” said Burg, parliamentary speaker from 1999 to 2003.

Burg has newly written a book, “Defeating Hitler” in which Ha’aretz says he describes Israel as a “Zionist ghetto” and compares Israeli behavior in the occupied Palestinian territories against Palestinians to that of Nazi Germany.

Also a former chairman of the semi-governmental Jewish Agency responsible for immigration to Israel, Burg took issue with the law of return, under which any Jew is able to come to live in the occupied lands.

“The law of return is the mirror image of Hitler. I don’t want Hitler to define my identity,” he said.

A former activist in the anti-settlement Peace Now movement, Burg is today a businessman who considers Israeli society paranoid and comparable to pre-Nazi Germany.

Burg slammed Israel for construction of a separation wall in the West Bank, saying, “The separation fence is a fence against paranoia ... There is something so xenophobic about it. So insane,” he said.

He also criticized targeted assassinations carried out by the Israeli army against Palestinian resistance fighters, comparing them to murder.

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By Robert, June 9, 2007 at 1:30 pm Link to this comment

PEACE, PROPAGANDA & THE PROMISED LAND:


A VIDEO that reflects the TRUTH is better than millions of words!

We in the U.S. will NOT see this documentary on CNN, FOX NEWS, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC and the rest of our mainstream news media.

This is a powerful video that exposes the Israeli army/IDF brutal policy, horrific crimes and barbaric aggression on the unarmed Palestinian population.

You will flinch & may be stressed when you see the facts in cold blood.

Here is the link to: Peace, Propaganda & The Promised Land Video


http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=533

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By Inherit The Wind, June 9, 2007 at 5:08 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Mr. Barton:
You will never convince the anti-semites here.  They don’t give a rat’s ass that hundreds of thousands are being murdered in Darfur, and that many American companies support the Sudanese tyrants doing it.

They don’t give a rat’s ass that Saudi Arabia and Syria regularly make the “top ten” of repressive dictatorships.

They don’t give a rat’s ass that in most of the 22 Arab nations the right of self-determination is denied to everyone who isn’t Arab and Moslem.

They don’t give a rat’s ass that in those 22 nations only one religion can be practiced, Islam, and that any other religion gets persecuted by modern Torquemadas.

They don’t give a rat’s ass that even Arab Moslems get persecuted just as much if they are the “wrong” Moslems—Shi’ites in a Sunni-run nation.

They don’t give rat’s ass that we have spent two and a half times more money in 4 years in Iraq than in 60 years in Israel.

They don’t give a rat’s ass that their conspiracy theory, that Zionist Jews control and pull the puppet strings in Washington, makes no fucking sense because The Bush Family is SO close to the Saudi Royal Family that Prince Bandar is called Bandar Bush—and that the Saudis HATE Israel.

They don’t give a rat’s ass that there’s NO WAY there’s enough wealth in Israel to offset the lobbying efforts of the rich Oil states.

They don’t give a rat’s ass that China has the USA completely by the balls (thanks to Reagan and the Bushs) and China despises Israel. That all China has to do is float their currency and the US tumbles into a cataclysmic depression.

No, they don’t give a rat’s ass about any of these facts that discredits their age-old “International Jewish Conspiracy” theory, updated to use “Zionism” as the code word for Jews.  Remember the characters Timon and Simba in the Lion King?  These anti-semitic bigots would have you all thinking that Timon the meerkat rules and dominates Simba the Lion King.

Why? Well, at least Fadel is honest.  He’s a Palestinian nationalist who wants to see Israel destroyed and replaced with yet another Arab Moslem dictatorship. 

And I think TW is simply naive with a Utopian dream that defies and denies all factual evidence that it would result in a blood bath.

But the others? They are just the usual maggots who appear every half-century or so claiming all the world’s ills will vanish by the simple solution of slaughtering all the Evil Jews. 

But this time there’s a nuclear-equipped nation to prevent that happening. It’s a growing, dynamic modern economy constantly filling with educated entrepreneurs, and with the best-trained and best-equipped military in the region, and one of the best in the world.

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By Peter RV, June 9, 2007 at 5:06 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Ref.#76527 by Robert.
Thanks for the link.
I have a sort of “inside” information that confirms the worst fears.
About a couple of years ago I met a Russian Israeli, errant in Spain looking for greener pastures, after his disenchantment with the Promised Land. He wasn’t a “self-hating” one, by any means, but he had some objections for which, I would tell him, could get him tarred and feathered in Broklyn or Bronx (you see, I’d already anticipated existance of Lefty,Lilmamzer and the Inherit Brigade). I’ll elaborate on this some other time but coming back to the point,
I was taken aback when he told me ( in defense of Israel, mind you) :
” In Israel, everybody agrees that we only do what Americans tell us to do”.
An eye-opening statement which I first naively thought, it must be their collective self-deception in attempting to throw their guilt on somebody else.
Nothing of the kind. If one understands it correctly, i.e. that for Israelis “American” is a code word for AIPAC,Bnai Breth, Jinsa etc- de facto power in Washington, then, everything falls in place.
Sharon’s statement couldn’t have surprised any Israeli. And he was right -they have the Power and the Cover. Great, as long as the rest of us accept our submissive role.
One thing is becoming clear- The stink in the Middle East does come from this side of the ocean.

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By Robert, June 9, 2007 at 3:11 am Link to this comment

Comment #76353 by Ill-Lie-Mam on 6/8 at 11:09am


IT IS WORTH REPEATING. ONE MORE FOR THE TRUTH RECORD:


I doubt if many Americans are aware that Israel has committed acts of aggression, war crimes, criminal acts, non-stop spying against the United States.

The Lavon Affair, the criminal & war crime attack on the USS Liberty, Jonathan Pollard/Israel spy scandal & other spying incidents…just to name a few.

The Israeli IDF attack on the USS Liberty ship left 34 American men dead and 174 were wounded. To this date, no formal investigation was initiated or conducted (by U.S. Congress) regarding this horrific attack/aggression. Everything has been swept under the rug.

Here are a couple of samples of what some of the US Navy personnel commented on the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty ship:

“Never before in the history of the United States Navy has a Navy Board of Inquiry ignored the testimony of American military eyewitnesses and taken, the word of their attackers.”

_ Captain Richard F. Kiepfer, Medical Corps, US Navy (retired), USS Liberty survivor.

—————————————————————————

“The evidence was clear. Both Admiral Kidd and I believed with certainty that this attack…was a deliberate effort to sink an American ship and murder its entire crew…It was our shared belief…that the attack…could not possibly have been an accident…I am certain that the Israeli pilots [and] their superiors…were well aware that the ship was American.”

- Captain Ward Boston, JAGC, US Navy (retired), senior legal counsel to the US Navy Court of Inquiry.

——————————————————————————-
Click on this excellent website… and see what former US Secretary of State, Dean Rusk, former CIA Director, Richard Helms and other Americans had to say about the Israeli IDF attack on the USS Liberty ship.

Here is the link/website to the USS Liberty ship & its BRAVE AMERICAN SAILORS:

http://www.ussliberty.org

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By Robert, June 9, 2007 at 2:33 am Link to this comment

Comment #76444 by ill-lie-mam on 6/8 at 6:03 pm

“keep quoting Finkelstein. he’s a fraudulent wannabe-academic, and now he has lost his chance at tenure at DePaul.
****DENIED***”
———————————————————————-

Ill-Lie-Mam…Could you give this forum/thread where this latest news break/article on Finkelstein tenure has been printed? I can see where you provided (From FrontPageMagazine.com / May 29,2007).

Are you 100% sure regarding Finkelstein tenure status at DePaul? If you are 100% on this… sure would like to read the official transcript/news release!

BTW, the above website is interesting…should be able to provide good zionist propaganda references for your hysterical trails of comments.

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By Chatles Barton, June 9, 2007 at 1:17 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Norman Finkelstein was denied tenure at DePaul University because of his vitriolic attacks on his critics.  The anti-Zionist here are engaged in the same sort of vicious attack on the defenders of Israel:  “Dershowitz, for instance, is a proven fraud and neo-Zionist apologist,” “Their sick attempts with their juvenile heckling/tauting & sly methods are not going to work on the people who care for the TRUTH & equal rights for all people.” “these infected zionists got brainwashed” “ALL THEY WANT TO DO IS MOAN ,GROAN AND CRY “ANTISEMITISM” WITH THE HOPE THAT WE WILL JUST GO AWAY.” “this forum’s “fanatic zionist gang’s”” “ceaseless diatribes posted by Truthdig’s resident Zionists” “Ill-lie-mamzie…you have been frothing at the mouth & bragging about your Apartheid zionist Israel for the past several weeks.

All what we can see out of all your hysterical propaganda is stenchy garbage. Your Israel cannot survive without the billions of dollars & all other aid that comes from the American taxpayers.

We can’t see your abscessed head out of all that garbage that you are standing in! Hit that dusty trail…”

We are clearly not dealing with rational people, who are conducting a detached search for truth within the context of a rational dialogue.  What we have on the anti-Zionist side is an endless fanatic hate for Israel and for any Jew who defends or supports Israel.  The anti-Zionist wish to deamonize Israel and its defenders.  They vent endless and limitless rage.  To hear the anti-Zionist tell it nothing is more evil than Israel, which is governed by people who engage in an endless stream of the most wicked, evil acts ever perpetrated by one group od people against another.  Never mind the fact that hundreds of thousands of Sudanese have been murdered during the last decade, or the tens of thousands of Shiites, killed by Sunnis and the tens of thousands of Sunnis killed by Shiites in Iraq.  Never mind the murders of thousands of Hindues by Muslims in India, or the murders of hundreds of Buddhists by Muslims in Southern Thailand.  Israel is fare more evil than anything else.  Israel is singularly and utterly evil, and those who support it are wicked beyond belief.  The defenders of Israel are incapable of reason.  Nothing they have to say is worthy of the slightest attention. 

What is most shocking us that these hate driven rants, appear on a web-site called “Truthdig.”  What you are digging for ladies and gentlemen is not truth, it is a vent for you otherwise free floating hate.

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By Robert, June 9, 2007 at 12:06 am Link to this comment

Comment #76282 by IWT on 6/8

“And they want total control, total power, and unimaginable wealth. Israel? that’s a puppet, a thorn, and an excuse, no more.”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

ISRAELI PRESS: October 3, 2001


Sharon to Peres:“Don’t worry about American pressure; we control America”


“An acrimonious argument erupted during the Israeli cabinet weekly session last week between Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and his foreign Minister Shimon Peres during which Sharon reportedly yelled at Peres, saying “don’t worry about American pressure, we control America.”

According to Israel radio (in Hebrew) Kol Yesrael, Peres warned Sharon Wednesday that refusing to heed incessant American requests for a cease-fire with the Palestinians would endanger Israeli interests and “turn the US against us.”

At this point, a furios Sharon reportedly turned towards Peres, saying “every time we do something you tell me Americans will do this and will do that. I want to tell you something very clear, don’t worry about American pressure on Israel, we, the Jewish people control America, and the Americans know it.”

The radio said Peres and other cabinet ministers warned Sharon against saying what he said in public because “it would cause us a public relations disaster.”

http://www.wrmea.com/html/newsitem_s.htm

—————————————————————————

It is clear and obvious who controls this administration’s “U.S. POLICY” in the Middle-East.

You can curse the “zionist establishment” in and around Washington, D.C. all you want to, but that is not going to change the situation nor what is really going on. You may think that it is “cute & clever” to badmouth the zionist gang…Paul Wolfowitz, Bill Kristol, Douglas Feith, Richard Perle…et al…but you are NOT fooling anyone here.

I have seen this zionist pattern too often being used on “truthdig” and other forums.

YOU ARE NOT IMPRESSING ANYONE BY YOUR ...WORDS/GESTURE & FAKE POSITIONING!

BTW, G W Bush “backed down” with his confrontation with Ariel Sharon during Israel Brutal IDF assault on the Palestinian town of Jenin!

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By Tony Wicher, June 8, 2007 at 10:37 pm Link to this comment

Re #76444 by lilmamzer on 6/08 at 6:03 pm

Norman Finkelstein, one of the leading lights of the international hate-Israel movement, has been denied tenure at DePaul University in Chicago.”

==================================================

There is no politics as nasty as academic politics, and I’m sure Dershowitz is good at it. The excellence of Finkelstein’s work stands on its own, however, and denial of his tenure is a travesty of justice.

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By cann4ing, June 8, 2007 at 10:35 pm Link to this comment

Fadel Abdallah:  Thank you for the haaretz reference.  Quite a remarkable article.  Before reading it, I had no idea that Rabbi Schlomo Goren sought to get General Markiss to blow up the Mosque of Omar immediately after the IDF seized the Temple Mount in 1967.  It serves to underscore that the central argument made by Israeli historian Tom Segev that the scope of discourse within the Israeli media is far greater than it is here, within the U.S., where the AIPAC alliance with the American military-industrial complex and neoconservative political elites seeks to squelch any and all criticisms of the Israeli government’s brutal occupation, even from Jewish Americans, by conflating such criticism into the bogus charge of anti-Semitism.

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By Fadel Abdallah, June 8, 2007 at 8:40 pm Link to this comment

Those who read my contributions to Truthdig Blog might have noticed that I like to introduce writings and opinions by courageous and honest Jews. I do this because I believe that if we have enough of those, Jews collectively will be saved from the fanatic Zionists who are bound to destroy other Jews along with the Palestinians they hate so much, just because they happened to exist as the natives of the land when the colonial Zionist project came into existence.
 
Here’s one of those noble, courageous and honest Jews with whom I can share my land and live with in peace.
===================================
1967 - The war that ended Judaism
By Bradley Burston

…If absolute occupation corrupts absolutely, no group would be more corrupted by Israel’s presence in the territories than rightist rabbis.

With Messianic zeal, they set to dictating new commandments and enunciating new prohibitions, revolutionizing Judaism by casting the settlements as the building blocks of a Third Temple - all the while turning the settlement enterprise and territories as a whole into a new Golden Calf, a god to which the people as a whole would be forced to sacrifice.
 
Long dismissed as passive politically, militant religious Judaism came to set policy for the settlement movement as a whole, and, in effect, for the rest of us. Because we let them. We coddled the settlements with our tax revenues, we protected them with our army service, and knowingly, impotently, we tolerated their intolerance of Arabs.
 
If fundamentalist Muslim Palestinians taught their children that all of the Holy Land belonged to them alone, and that it was permissible that all of the Jews should be killed or expelled, entire Jewish organizations would make their livings detailing the baseness of the incitement.

But if fundamentalist rabbis in Israel taught Jewish children that all of the Holy Land belonged to them alone, and that it was permissible that all of the Palestinians should be killed or expelled, how did we respond?

We continued to pay their salaries as civil servants.

Kindly read the entire article at:   

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/867362.html

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By cann4ing, June 8, 2007 at 8:19 pm Link to this comment

For those who have grown weary of the ceaseless diatribes posted by Truthdig’s resident Zionists and who are curious as to what an honest intellectual debate on the subject of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict might look like, I would suggest the June 8, 2007 segment of Democracy Now! entitled, “Israeli Historian Tom Segev, Palestinian Physician Mona El-Farra and US Scholar Norman Finkelstein on 6-Day War and Its 40-Year Legacy.” 

Mr. Segev noted agreement with Ms. El Farra’s assertion that occupation will never bring peace and that “only peace that is built on justice will bring peace to the area.” 

Segev added: 

“American friends of Israel should redefine their friendship for Israel.  Friendship does not mean support the government at all times.  And I think they should make a distinction between Israel and the government of Israel, just as they do that for their own country….  There are many, many Israelis who object to the occupation.  Nothing you will say in your rally in Washington will be new to Israeli ears.  In fact, the public debate in Israel is much more open than it is in this country regarding the future of the territories….It is very important that people realize that freindship to Israel does not mean supporting occupation of the territories.”

The effort by lilmamzer, Ephraim “Lefty” Pesach and Inherit the Wind to shut down that debate by flooding this post with their endless rants exposes that, at their core, these AIPAC Zionists are fascists who seek to close all dialogue.  What else explains the brownshirt-like delight of someone like lilmamzer in the denial of tenure to one of this nation’s most outstanding scholars, Norman Finkelstein.  In that delight, lilmamzer reveals that he and his ilk are not merely racists who pose a threat to the continued survival of Palestinians as a people, but to the core principles embodied in the First Amendment inside these United States.

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By Tony Wicher, June 8, 2007 at 8:03 pm Link to this comment

For a Secular Democratic State
by Saree Makdisi (UCLA) in The Nation, 4 June 2007

This month marks the fortieth anniversary of the Israeli occupation of the West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem. Four decades of control established and maintained by force of arms—in defiance of international law, countless UN Security Council resolutions and, most recently, the 2004 Advisory Opinion of the International Court of Justice in The Hague—have enabled Israel to impose its will on the occupied territories and, in effect, to remake them in its own image.

The result is a continuous political space now encompassing all of historic Palestine, albeit a space as sharply divided as the colonial world (“a world cut in two”) famously described by Frantz Fanon in The Wretched of the Earth. Indeed, Fanon’s 1961 classic still enables an analysis of Israel and the occupied territories as fresh, insightful and relevant in 2007 as the readings of Cape Town or Algiers that it made available when it was first published.

Israel maintains two separate road systems in the West Bank, for example: one for the territory’s immigrant population of Jewish settlers, one for its indigenous non-Jewish (i.e., Palestinian) population.

The roads designated for the Jewish settlers are well maintained, well lit, continuous and uninterrupted; they tie the network of Jewish “neighborhoods” and “settlements”—all of them in reality colonies forbidden by international law—to each other and to Israel. The roads for the West Bank’s native population, by contrast, are poorly maintained, when they are maintained at all (they often consist of little more than shepherds’ trails); they are continuously blockaded and interrupted. A grid of checkpoints and roadblocks (546 at last count) strangles the circulation of the West Bank’s indigenous population, but it is designed to facilitate the free movement of Jewish settlers—who are, moreover, allowed to drive their own cars on the roads set aside for them, whereas Palestinians are not allowed to drive their cars beyond their own towns and villages (the entrances to which are all blockaded by the Israeli army).

The wall that Israel has been constructing in the West Bank and East Jerusalem since 2002 makes visible in concrete and barbed wire the outlines of the discriminatory regime that structures and defines everyday life in the occupied territories, separating Palestinian farmers from crops, patients from hospitals, students and teachers from schools and, increasingly, even parents from children (it has, for example, separated one parent or another from spouses and children in 21 percent of Palestinian families living on either side of the wall near Jerusalem)—while at the same time enabling the seamless incorporation of the Judaized spaces of the occupied territories into Israel itself. And a regime of curfews and closures, enforced by the Israeli army, has smothered the Palestinian economy, though none of its provisions apply to Jewish settlers in the occupied territories.
There are, in short, two separate legal and administrative systems, maintained by the regular use of military force, for two populations—settlers and natives—unequally inhabiting the same piece of land: exactly as was the case in the colonial countries described by Fanon, or in South Africa under apartheid.

All this has enabled Israel to transplant almost half a million of its own citizens into the occupied territories, at the expense of their Palestinian population, whose land is confiscated, whose homes are demolished, whose orchards and olive groves are razed or burned down, and whose social, economic, educational and family lives have been, in effect, all but suspended, precisely in order that their land may be made available for the use of another people

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By Tony Wicher, June 8, 2007 at 8:02 pm Link to this comment

For a Secular Democratic State
by Saree Makdisi (UCLA) in The Nation, 4 June 2007
(Continued)

The result has been catastrophic for the Palestinians, as a World Bank report published in May makes clear. While the Jewish settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem enjoy growth rates exceeding those of Israel itself, Palestinian towns and villages are slowly being strangled. While Jewish settlers move with total freedom, the combination of physical obstacles and the bureaucratic pass system imposed by the Israeli army on the Palestinian population has not only permanently separated the Palestinians of the West Bank from those of Gaza, East Jerusalem and Israel (movement among which is forbidden for all but a tiny minority) but has also broken up the West Bank into three distinct sections and ten enclaves. Half of the West Bank is altogether off-limits to most Palestinians; to move from one part of the rest of the territory to another, Palestinians must apply for a permit from the Israelis. Frequent bans are imposed on movement into or out of particular enclaves (the city of Nablus, for example, has been under siege for five years), or on whole segments of the population (e.g., unmarried men under the age of 45). And all permits are summarily invalidated when Israel declares one of its “comprehensive closures” of the West Bank—there were seventy-eight such days in 2006—at which point the entire Palestinian population stays home.

The lucky few who are able to obtain passes from the Israelis are channeled from one section or enclave to another through a series of army checkpoints, where they may be searched, questioned, hassled, detained for hours or simply turned back. “The practical effect of this shattered economic space,” the World Bank report points out, “is that on any given day the ability to reach work, school, shopping, healthcare facilities and agricultural land is highly uncertain and subject to arbitrary restriction and delay.” Given the circumstances, it is hardly any wonder that two-thirds of the Palestinian population has been reduced to absolute poverty (less than $2 a day), and that hundreds of thousands are now dependent for day-to-day survival on food handouts provided by international relief organizations. Not only has the international community refused to intervene; it has actively participated in the repression, imposing—for the first time in history—sanctions on a people living under military occupation, while the occupying and colonizing power goes on violating the international community’s own laws with total impunity.

To all of these charges, Israel and its supporters have but one response: “security.” But as the World Bank report argues, it is “often difficult to reconcile the use of movement and access restrictions for security purposes from their use to expand and protect settlement activity.” Moreover, the Bank notes, it seems obvious that Israeli security ought to be tied to Palestinian prosperity: By disrupting the Palestinian economy and immiserating an entire population—pushing almost 4 million people to the edge—the Israelis are hardly enhancing their own security.

Such arguments miss the point, however. No matter how fiercely it is contested inside Israel, there remains a very strong sense that the country is entitled to retain the land to which it has now stubbornly clung for four decades. Even while announcing his scheme to relinquish nominal control over a few bits and pieces of the West Bank with heavy concentrations of Palestinians, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert insisted on his country’s inherent right to the territory, irrespective of the demands of international law, let alone the rights and claims of the Palestinians themselves. (“Every hill in Samaria and every valley in Judea is part of our historic homeland,” he said last year, using Israel’s official, biblical terminology for the West Bank.)

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By Tony Wicher, June 8, 2007 at 7:59 pm Link to this comment

For a Secular Democratic State
by Saree Makdisi (UCLA) in The Nation, 4 June 2007
(continued)

Although some people claim there are fundamental differences between the disposition of the territories Israel captured in 1967 and the territories it captured during its creation in 1948—or even that there are important moral and political differences between Israel pre- and post-1967—such sentiments of entitlement, and the use of force that necessarily accompanies them, reveal the seamless continuity of the Zionist project in Palestine from 1948 to our own time. “There are circumstances in history that justify ethnic cleansing,” argues Israeli historian Benny Morris, with reference to the creation of Israel. “A Jewish state would not have come into being without the uprooting of 700,000 Palestinians. Therefore it was necessary to uproot them. There was no choice but to expel that population. It was necessary to cleanse the hinterland and cleanse the border areas and cleanse the main roads. It was necessary to cleanse the villages from which our convoys and our settlements were fired on.”

Israel’s post-1967 occupation policies are demonstrably driven by the same dispossessive logic. If hundreds of thousands have not literally been forced into flight, their existence has been reduced to penury. Just as Israel could have come into being in 1948 only by sweeping aside hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, Israel’s ongoing colonization of Palestinian territory—its imposition of itself and its desires on the land’s indigenous population—requires, and will always require, the use of force and the continual brutalization of an entire people.

Indeed, the discriminatory practices in the occupied territories replicate, albeit in a harsher and more direct form, those inside Israel, where the remnant of the Palestinian population that was not driven into flight in 1948—today more than a million people—continues to endure the systematic inequalities built into the laws and institutions of a country that explicitly claims to be the state of the Jewish people rather than that of its own actual citizens, about a fifth of whom are not Jewish. Recognizing the contradiction inherent in such a formulation, various Israeli politicians, including Deputy Prime Minister Avigdor Lieberman, have explicitly called for the territorial transfer—if not the outright expulsion—of as much as possible of Israel’s non-Jewish (that is, Palestinian) minority. Although it would be intended to mark the ultimate triumph of the dispossessing settler over the dispossessed native (Lieberman is an immigrant from Moldova who enjoys rights denied to indigenous Palestinians simply because he happens to be Jewish), such a gesture would actually amount to a last-ditch measure, an attempt to forestall what has become the most likely conclusion to the conflict.

For, having unified all of what used to be Palestine (albeit into one profoundly divided space) without having overcome the Palestinian people’s will to resist, Zionism has run its course. And in so doing, it has terminated any possibility of a two-state solution. There remains but one possibility for peace with justice: truth, reconciliation—and a single democratic and secular state, a state in which there will be no “natives” and “settlers” and all will be equal; a state for all its citizens irrespective of their religious affiliation. Such a state has always, by definition, been anathema for Zionism. But for the people of Israel and Palestine, it is the only way out.

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By Tony Wicher, June 8, 2007 at 7:17 pm Link to this comment

Re #76293 by Matt on 6/08 at 5:55 am
(Unregistered commenter)

“Yes, Tony - and sometimes I think this is exactly what Israel wants. Maybe they want to INDUCE hatred of Jews in general in America, to give substance to their claim of being a necessary haven. They can’t stand the fact that Jewish people are perfectly happy here.”

Yes, it seems that Zionists are against Jews who are not Zionists. They try to identify Zionism with Judaism, and but they are completely different. I hope and pray that American Jews are beginning to think to themselves that they are Jewish Americans and NOT Zionists, and that for the sake of the good name of Jewish people here and everywhere, they should be the first and the most prominent in opposing immoral Israeli policies. They should also recognize who are their true friends, not Zionists but Americans who understand, value and will fight at their sides against anti-Semitism and every other form of racism. They should be defending these true friends against false charges of anti-Semitism.

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By lilmamzer, June 8, 2007 at 7:11 pm Link to this comment

#76442 by Billy the Dik:
FINAL POST:  The facts I am referring to are nothing more than the fact that Jews have a HUMAN right to seek a secure future for their children’s children.  This does NOT support intangible claims to ‘specialness’ and it extends to ALL human beings.  Of course having the human right and self-sabotaging it are completely seperate issues.

You simply cannot deny Jews the right to self-determination. You never deny that right to Arabs, French, Ghanains, Kenyanms, Sri Lankans, Russians, Finns, Canadians, Mexicans, or anyone else. Yet for Jews you make a point of denying what every other nation reserves for itself.

If ANYONE makes a claim about “specialness”, it is YOU, Billy. You claim that Jews are special in NOT having the right to live as a sovereign people in their own homeland. You are guilty of bigotry by exclusion.

By singling out the Jews, it is YOU who are the bigot. It is YOU who deny a basic human right only to Jews and to nobody else.

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By lilmamzer, June 8, 2007 at 7:03 pm Link to this comment

GOOD NEWS: FINKELSTEIN DENIED TENURE AT DEPAUL

Norman Finkelstein, one of the leading lights of the international hate-Israel movement, has been denied tenure at DePaul University in Chicago.

==============================
from FrontPageMagazine.com | May 29, 2007
==============================

“Finkelstein brags that “never has one of [his] articles been published in a scientific magazine.” By that he means academic journals. Yes, Finkelstein has yet to publish a scholarly article in a refereed academic journal, the sine qua non for tenure at any serious university. His entire “record” consists of anti-Israel and anti-Semitic propaganda “books”, which get published on the basis of their commercial potential (bashing Jews is a great seller), not their academic quality.”

“Finkelstein has been fired from every college job he ever held before DePaul. Finkelstein only went to DePaul out of desperation, after “radical Islamist Aminah McCloud—a follower of Louis Farrakhan—helped him land a job at DePaul.” Finkelstein himself dismisses DePaul as “a third-rate Catholic university.”

====================

Keep quoting Finkelstein.

He’s a fraudulent wannabe-academic, and now he has lost his chance at tenure at DePaul.

**** D E N I E D ****

Couldn’t happen to a nastier guy.

This is really good news.

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By lilmamzer, June 8, 2007 at 6:57 pm Link to this comment

#76434 by Billy the Dik:

Illone and Righty, I will not continue, this is pointless.  You have so many inches of thread here, always allergic to honest self-examination, that to respond any longer feels foolish.  You are beyond new information because your pose and position has been ready-made for you and regurgitated by you.  I think it is pure cowardice that makes you squeamish at the idea of admitting your false assertions and your obviously insecure insistence that there is no truth but Zionist domination, albeit with the US pimp payment to the whore of Israel.  I will no longer share ideas with a wall.

Don’t let the door hit ya on the way out.

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By lilmamzer, June 8, 2007 at 6:15 pm Link to this comment

#76399 by Fadel Abdallah:
They writefor the filthy dollar and that’s why they cowardly hide behind fake names.

Of course we writefor “the filthy dollar”. Nobody would ever writerebuttals to the Truthdig crap out of conviction, right?

So it must be “the filthy dollar”. And who, Fadel, is paying me these “filthy dollars”?

Do you think it might be corrupt Prince Bandar of Saudi Arabia who just received $2 BILLION in bribes from BAE for the sale of fighter jets to Saudi Arabia?

Do you think it might be the estate of Yasser Arafat who stole billions of aid dollars for his own personal gain?

Do you think it might be Bashar Assad of Syria who has plundered Lebanon for years?

Please tell us all who you think is paying me “filthy dollars”.

You know, not ALL Jews are motivated by money. Some things Jews do are the labor of love.

Writing here and having a little fun with you is actually something I do just for the fun of it. All pro bono, so to speak.

My gift to the readers. smile

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By lilmamzer, June 8, 2007 at 5:58 pm Link to this comment

#76399 by Fadel Abdallah:
Lilmamzer and Lefty are full-time paid employees of the Zionist propaganda machine.

Right.

You seem so threatened by my arguments. Of course, my reasoning can’t possibly be sound, my sources can’t possibly be reliable, my conclusions can’t possibly be rational.

IF FADEL DOESN’T LIKE WHAT HE READS, THEN IT MUST BE A ZIONIST CONSPIRACY

Typically hysterical Arab/Muslim retreat from reality. It’s the JOOOOOOS, those RACIST ZIONIST JOOOOOOOS ruining it for everyone.


BOOO!!!!!!

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By lilmamzer, June 8, 2007 at 5:53 pm Link to this comment

#76396 by Billy the Dik:
Even the few facts that support your claims are undermined by your cross-eyed committment to denial of any wrong-doing.

Whoa, almost missed this little gem in the “fevered project” of your post. You actually admit that I have supported my claims with facts.

Please elaborate: which facts are you referring to?

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By lilmamzer, June 8, 2007 at 5:49 pm Link to this comment

#76396 by Billy the Dik:

The truth does not matter to you Jr. Zionists unless it supports your fevered project.

“Fevered project”? Did you even read your own posts?
=======================

I find it impossible to read your blatant racist and fascist exhortations without wincing.

Oh, no! The last thing i would ever want to do is make you wince.

Please explain how I am a “racist”. Be literal. Be rational. Be explicit, and PLEASE stay on topic.

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By Fadel Abdallah, June 8, 2007 at 4:13 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Judging from the frequency and timing of their rants, it should be clear to every one that Lilmamzer and Lefty are full-time paid employees of the Zionist propaganda machine. Possibly this is the only job open for such disturbed souls. They writefor the filthy dollar and that’s why they cowardly hide behinnd fake names. In my way of thinking, if someone writes out of conviction, they should be courageous enough to sign his/her real name to what they write. You can’t find more lowly person than someone who wants to disassociate him or herself from the garbage they keep recycling.

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By Peter RV, June 8, 2007 at 3:01 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Ref.#76245 by Ernest Canning
  Yes, the same old gang with the same old ludicrous behaviour.
  One or two intelligent posts appear ,then an avalanche of obscene lies and denials follow. Just what was predicted long ago- a vulgar forum-heckling.
  What is new now, though, is that, the more of this heckling garbage appears, the less some of us have chance to post anything at all, even to register. (Once the editor answered angrily my complaint, telling me off for whining and that my ideas,after all, aren’t “exactly revolutionary”).
Perhaps should I conclude that I am touching somewhere a raw nerve of the censor? (Who is he? Lilmamzer? Lefty? Inherit? or all of them as a gang?) No idea. I can only guess.
I have strong ideas, that is true, but they are based on a long observations of events and facts. When I express them ,I never balance them by some politically correct platitude, expecting always a contest, not an applause. When an answer comes in form of personnal insults instead of arguments, that too is a reward - I have won an easy battle.
Although I shun insults, I most certainly have a profound contempt for “opinions” based on propaganda and worn out cliches. But unlike the propagandists, I can distinguish person ,who, as a human being, deserves a respect, from his opinion ,which often doesn’t deserve any, and it should be savaged and ridiculed as appropriate. I accept to be treated in the same manner.
For exemple, an “opinion” which is based on such “facts”, that it is the peace-loving Jews who suffer in Palestine in the hands of the ferrocious Palestinians, will always draw scorn from me, and I don’t mind being called an Anti-Semite for that.
I am totally insensitive to this type of intimidation, my “enemies” feel that, and it drives them rather, shall we say- desoriented.

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By lilmamzer, June 8, 2007 at 12:50 pm Link to this comment

#76354 by Billy the Dik on 6/08 at 11:36 am
(123 comments total)

liladolph sure likes to dominate the conversation.  You’re correct about one thing, It’s Over!  While the zionists think they’re prospering beyond the reach of their oppressors (what a sick joke) the US taxpayers are, in swarms, beginning to realize that the retards that have been supporting Israel’s crimes against humanity are either anemic, power-hungry jews or inbred, fundamentalist Xian perverts.  Yes, it’s coming to a dead stop!  Plus they talk so much self-praise and self-pity, it’s another obvious attempt to distract from the tortured truth.
===========================

Hedges, I blame you for attracting malicious nonsense like this. The difference is, wingnut whack-jobs like Billy The Dik just come right out and speak their (small) minds, whereas you, Hedges, attempt to distort the truth by errors of omission and selective, one-sided narratives.

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By lilmamzer, June 8, 2007 at 12:44 pm Link to this comment

#76354 by Billy the Dik:

liladolph sure likes to dominate the conversation.
Are you suggesting that my voice shouldn’t be heard? How very “progressive” and “liberal” of you to express a desire to squelch opposing points of view. And you try to call me “Adolph”? That’s so lame, dude.

================

While the zionists think they’re prospering beyond the reach of their oppressors (what a sick joke) the US taxpayers are, in swarms, beginning to realize that the retards that have been supporting Israel’s crimes against humanity are either anemic, power-hungry jews or inbred, fundamentalist Xian perverts.
Translation, please. Are you suggesting that US public opinion is turning against support for Israel as a US ally in the Middle East? If that’s what you’re trying to say, you are quite mistaken. Support for Israel now in the US is at an all-time high. Love the part about “power-hungry jews”. Of course, you’re not antisemitic and you meant that in a good way, no stereotyping there, of course.

================

Plus they talk so much self-praise and self-pity, it’s another obvious attempt to distract from the tortured truth.
“Tortured truth”? More alliterative nonsense. Stick to what you do best - crude antisemitic insults.

=================

You’re correct about one thing, It’s Over!
Conceding the USS LIberty smear already? That was too easy, dude.

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By lilmamzer, June 8, 2007 at 12:09 pm Link to this comment

#76334 by Robert:

More praise for Judge Cristol’s book, “The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Navy Spy Ship”
============================

“Cristol…makes his case that it was not deliberate. His conclusion is the result of 14 years of investigation, done with the perspective of a combat pilot, and with the painstaking care one would expect of a federal judge.”- KEITH TAYLOR,
San Diego Union-Tribune, 18 Aug 2002, BOOKS, p. 5

=============================

“...an exhaustive analysis…the author knows more about this subject than anyone who has written about it.”- REAR ADM. PAUL TOBIN,
U.S. Naval Institute Proceedings 2002 Aug; 128(8):88

==============================

“...an exquisitely researched and articulately presented analysis…a must-read for all who have an interest in the Liberty incident.”- Rear ADM. T. A. BROOKS, USN (Ret.)
Former Director of Naval Intelligence
Naval Intelligence Professionals Quarterly, Oct 2002

================================

“It is by far, the most thorough, even handed and accurate account.”- CAPT. ERNEST E. CASTLE, USN (Ret.),
United States Naval Academy Alumni Association, “Shipmate”, Nov 2002

=================================

BEST QUOTE:

“Jay Cristol…has done the U.S. government a service….” [An] “insightful book.”- JOHN DARRELL SHERWOOD,
Historian, U.S. Naval Historical Center
International Journal of Naval History, December 2003

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By Charles Barton, June 8, 2007 at 12:06 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I not only think that we should hate Israel for the bombing of the Liberty, we should also hate the British for the burning of the White House and the rest of Washington in 1814, the Fins and Swedes for stealing New Jersey from the Native Americans, the Dutch for stealing New Jersey From the Fins and Swedes, and for giving us insurance and for building Wall Street, the Italians for giving us the Mafia, the French for eating snails, and fighting a naval war against us in the 1790’s, the Germans for selling the Hessian Army to the United Kingdom to fight against us in the Revolutionary War, the Russians for inventing Borsch, and the Hawaiians for inventing the Hula, and the Japanese for attacking Pearl Harbor, for eating sea weed, and for inventing the Betamax.

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By lilmamzer, June 8, 2007 at 11:48 am Link to this comment

#76334 by Robert:

Keep dredging up the USS Liberty all you want, Robert. Been there, done that.

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By lilmamzer, June 8, 2007 at 11:45 am Link to this comment

#76334 by Robert:

(lilmamzer’s correction: Jay Cristol was not an admiral but was a chief federal judge, lawyer, naval officer, and US Navy carrier pilot.)

Here’s some US Navy praise for Judge Cristol’s analysis of the unfortunate events surrounding the USS Liberty:

“After years of research for this book, Judge A. Jay Cristol has reached a similar conclusion to one my father reached in his June 18, 1967, endorsement of the findings of the court of inquiry. I commend Judge Cristol for his thoroughness and fairness, and I commend this work.”- SEN. JOHN McCAIN, decorated Navy combat pilot and former POW

=========================================
“Only those with an ulterior motive can still cling to the conspiracy theories after Judge Jay Cristol’s excellent coverage documents each detail that led to the tragic mistaken attack.” - ADM. LEON A. (BUD) EDNEY, USN (Ret.);
former NATO supreme allied commander, Atlantic;
and commander-in-chief, U.S. Atlantic command

==============================
“Judge Jay Cristol has completed exhaustive research, an accurate reconstruction of events, and persuasively reasoned analysis of the tragic circumstances which led to the Israeli attack on the Liberty…. A great book, I couldn’t put it down!” - ADM. JERRY JOHNSON, USN (Ret.),
former vice chief of naval operations

==============================
“This is a story of mistakes in war as old as history and as current as today’s headlines. Jay Cristol is well qualified to writethis exhaustive history after analyzing, collecting, and cross-checking decades of interviews and reams of written material.”- ADM. DAVID E. JEREMIAH, USN (Ret.),
former vice chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff

===============================

BEST QUOTE: “Only those with an ulterior motive can still cling to the conspiracy theories after Judge Jay Cristol’s excellent coverage documents each detail that led to the tragic mistaken attack.”

Indeed.

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By lilmamzer, June 8, 2007 at 11:34 am Link to this comment

#76334 by Robert

This unfortunate incident has been investigated ad nauseum. It’s history.

Here’s a thorough investigation by a former US Navy admiral which puts the issue to rest, finally:

Cristol, A. Jay (2002). The Liberty Incident: The 1967 Israeli Attack on the U.S. Navy Spy Ship. Dulles, Virginia: Brassey’s. ISBN 1-57488-414-X.

By the way, Robert - the US Navy mistakenly shot down an Iranian civilian airliner over the Persian Gulf - Iran Air Flight 655 - in July of 1988, killing all 290 passengers and crew aboard, including 38 non-Iranians and 66 children.

Terrible mistakes happen sometimes. And the US wasn’t at war with Iran, and was not in a hot shooting war with enemy states closing in on all sides.

And yet, the Israel-bashers such as yourself trot out old news like the Liberty all the time.

Will conspiracy theorists such as yourself be doing this in a hundred years as a way to smear Israel? As if it will be any less relevant then than it is now?

NOBODY CARES - IT’S OVER

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By Robert, June 8, 2007 at 10:33 am Link to this comment

Rockets, Napalm, Torpedoes & Lies

Israel’s Attack on the Liberty, Revisited


By Jeffery ST. Clair

6/08/2007

“In early June of 1967, at the onset of the Six day War, the pentagon sent the USS Liberty from Spain into international waters off the coast of Gaza to monitor the progress of Israel’s attack on the Arab states. The Liberty was a lightly armed surveillance ship.

Only hours after the Liberty arrived it was spotted by the Israeli military. The IDF sent out reconnaissance planes to identify the ship. They made eight trips over a period of three hours. The Liberty was flying a large US flag and was easily recognizable as an American vessel.

A few hours later more planes came. These were Israeli Mirage III fighters, armed with rockets and machine guns. As off-duty officers sunbathed on the deck, the fighters opened fire on the defenseless ship with rockets and machine guns.”

“Finally, 16 hours after the attack two US destroyers reached the Liberty. By that time, 34 US sailors were dead and 174 injured, many seriously. As the wounded were being evacuated, an officer with the Office of Naval Intelligence instructed the men not to talk about their ordeal with the press.”

——————————————————————————

To “truthdig” readers…just click on the link to read the rest of this bloody cover-up. There has been NO formal investigation of this criminal Israeli attack. For 40 years our “SAILORS” & the families of the USS Liberty have been “DENIED” the TRUTH from our “SORRY” government officials. One would ask…WHY?

NO ONE DARES TO SPEAK OUT…for our sailors. Don’t they deserve truth & recognition for their bloody ordeal & their deserved heroism.

Its all about ISRAEL & AIPAC…!!!

Here is the link to this great article & many thanks to jeffrey ST. Clair for daring to writeabout it:

http://www.counterpunch.org/stclair1126.html

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By lilmamzer, June 8, 2007 at 9:05 am Link to this comment

#76281 by nahida:

You quote from Hamas Leader Ismail Haniyeh.

You writewords to the effect that Israel is intransigent and unwilling to negotiate in such a way as to satisfy the demands of the Palestinian Arabs.

And what, exactly, are those demands, Nahida, according to the elected Hamas government?

From the Hamas Charter, the core documentof the goals of Hamas:

“There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.”

“Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.”

“The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up.”

So, how then would you expect Israel to negotiate with people whose demands are maximalist and, by definition, genocidal?

In other words, what’s in it for the Jews? Certain death? Or, at the very least, disenfranchisement and terminal dhimmitude?

You need to answer this basic, fundamental question:

Can you agree that Jews have a right to live as a free and independent nation in their homeland of Israel?

If your answer to that basic question is no, then you stand for incessant war, repression, genocide, intolerance, and the crudest of double-standards.

Wish not for yourself what you would deny to others, Nahida.

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By lilmamzer, June 8, 2007 at 7:40 am Link to this comment

#76186 by Tony Wicher:

Yes, but all these wonderful acheivements are negated by what Israel has done to the Palestinians.

By what calculus can you make that determination? The majority of Israelis don’t want to have to maintain security precautions over the Arabs in Judea and Samaria. Don’tyou think the Palestinian Arabs would help themselves by ending their genocidal education system? By electing leadership truly committed to peaceful coexistence with a sovereign Jewish nation instead of aiming to overrun it?

I have no sympathy left for the Arabs when they elect the likes of Hamas and squander the highest per capita foreign aid donations in the world by channeling that money to terror attacks against Israeli civilians.

You live in a childish and simplistic world where Israel is always BAD and the Arabs are always GOOD, and anything Israel does, or is, or stands for is completely irrelevant so long as it’s not a Tony Wicher Utopian (read: completely unrealistic and unattainable) Garden of Eden.

We need to know if you focus as much of your emotional energies on other ethnic and national issues, or are hopelessly mired in your Jew-problem.

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By lilmamzer, June 8, 2007 at 7:33 am Link to this comment

#76281 by nahida:

Quoting from the Hamas leader? Do you have the balls to admit that the Hamas platform is for the genmocide of the Jewish nation? I know you don’t.

So we’re back to the crux of the matter, which you duck and dodge and refuse to answer:

Can you agree that Jews have a right to live as a free and independent nation in their homeland of Israel?

If your answer to that basic question is no, then you stand for incessant war, repression, genocide, intolerance, and the crudest of double-standards.

Wish not for yourself what you would deny to others, Nahida.

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By Esther, June 8, 2007 at 7:32 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

So, in just 4 years we’ve spent more than double what we’ve spent on Israel in almost 60 years…

Isn’t that a little like swatting a mosquito while being attacked by a swarm of bees?”
——————

The destruction of Iraq was PART of the ruinously expensive anti-Arab, anti-Muslim agenda we have been pursuing in obedience to the Israel lobby for decades, honey.

So you can ADD that to the cost of Israel to the US. 

Just like you can add the huge increase in gas prices caused by this war. Just like you can add the cost of the Arab oil embargo after the 1973 war.  Just like you can add the stratospheric cost of the upcoming war on Iran, and the vast increase in the price of oil that’ll come after that.  Just like you can add our “peacekeeping” mission in Lebanon in the 1980s. Just like you can add the “aid” we shell out to the rulers of Egypt and Jordan, an ongoing bribe to keep them at “peace” with Israel, though it means draconian political oppression against their own inhabitants, who understandably despise Israel.

All told, one scholar has estimated that the real cost of Israel to the US since 1967 has been around 1.6 TRILLION dollars. Sounds low to me.

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By lilmamzer, June 8, 2007 at 7:29 am Link to this comment

#76190 by Tony Wicher:
The only thing that matters to democratic prinicple is that the definition of “Jew” does not involve the land of birth and residency, the same
as “White”, “Black”, “Christian”, “Moslem”, “Arab”, etc. This cultural-genetic inheritace cannot determine citizenship in any country, and if it does, that country is not a democracy.

Your statement is incoherent.

Israel is democratic. The rule is by majority with minority protections and freedoms.

How you perversely define what a Jew is and is not according to your fuzzy thinking has no bearing on the reality of Jewish sovereignty.

Israel is sovereign because the majority of Jews in Israel and around the world make it so. That is self-determination.

Period.

End of story.

If you hate the idea so much, get off your ass in California and go to Gaza (again) and start shooting at the Jews. Otherwise, the Jews of Israel will continue to grow in numbers, prosper beyond the reach of their Arab oppressors, and continue to be a thorn in the side of people like you with Jew-problems.

And that makes me smile.

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By Esther, June 8, 2007 at 6:58 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

And Israel is a haven for exectly whom? Who is a Jew? The irony here is that Israel, as a state defined by the Holocaust, adopts Hitler’s definition of a Jew.

The basic propaganda encourages Jews by this racist definition to be ever fearful: “Were you raised as a Christian, or are you an atheist? Well, you have a Jewish grandmother, so Hitler would have considered you Jewish - therefore you’d better give lots of money to Israel, and support and praise the Israeli regime uncritically! You’d better call your congressmen and senators and tell them to support more wars in the Middle East for Israel! Because, well, you never know - you might have to come ‘home’ to Israel someday (especially if you betray your country for our benefit, as we insist that you do)...”

Israel does all it can to try to deny the distinction between the state of Israel Jewish people in general. But of course, if a non-Jew - adopting Israel’s definitions - says that ” ‘the Jews’ cluster-bombed Lebanon” instead of ” ‘Israel’ cluster-bombed Lebanon”, that person is an anti-Semite.

The Israelis want to have their cake and eat everybody else’s, too. Eff that.

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By Matt, June 8, 2007 at 6:55 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Tony Wicher quoting Rabbi Lerner (thanks Tony!):

“Israeli behavior might have led to anger only against Israelis, had it not been for the fact that virtually every organized Jewish community in the world claims that Israel is “the Jewish state” and then contributes large sums of money to support its activities….Jews cannot be surprised if anger at Israeli policies slips over into anger at the Jewish people who claim to overwhelmingly support that state.”

Yes, Tony - and sometimes I think this is exactly what Israel wants. Maybe they want to INDUCE hatred of Jews in general in America, to give substance to their claim of being a necessary haven. They can’t stand the fact that Jewish people are perfectly happy here.

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By Matt, June 8, 2007 at 5:48 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Re: #76124 by Matt on 6/07 at 1:02 pm
(Unregistered commenter)

lilmamzer:

Have you noticed that all your lists of lovely Israeli accomplishments have nothing to do with the basic question of whether racialist/apartheid/ethno-religious nationalist Israel is workable AS A COUNTRY.

Plenty of Jewish citizens of many countries in the world, even long before Israel was created, have always been doing and making wonderful things, inventing this or patenting that. That has NOTHING to do with Zionism’s workableness as a racial/nationalist project.
—————————————————————————-

Matt, have you read this thread, or did you just decide to throw in another uninformed comment.

If you scroll down you’ll find this quote:

“I cannot conceive of Israel withdrawing if Arab states do not recognize Israel, within secure borders.” — Nelson Mandela, former President African National Congress and the country of South Africa, and the primary advocate against South African Apartheid who served 25 years in Apartheid South African prisons.

Now, don’t you feel stupid?
——————-

Um, what’s the Hebrew for non sequitur, Rabbi Leftowitz?

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By Inherit The Wind, June 8, 2007 at 4:40 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“Your zionist pals got us involved in this very costly war in Iraq. Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas feith, Richard Perle, Adelman, Scooter Libby, Elliot Abrams, Ari Fleischer, Chertoff, and many others. It was their damn false lying reports about Iraq’s “WMD’s”. The zionist establishment kept the pressure & the lies on…non-stop. Look at where our country is right now. Look at all the human losses…in the 1000’s for the Americans & in the 10,000’s for the Iraqis.”

First off, they are not my “pals”. I’d like to see the whole treasonous bunch in jail, along with their ring-masters, Bush, Cheney and Rove.

But this “vast Jewish(sorry ‘Zionist’) conspiracy” is a repeat of the old Hitler lies, nothing else.  These sons-of-bitches want to build an American Empire, like Rome, not a Jewish or Israeli one. 

Look at their actions: Israel is the pawn, not the puppet-master.  Iraq is not about Israel, it’s about establishing 4 mega-bases, the most advanced in history. It’s about control of the most important energy resource in the world, oil.  Didn’t you hear Tony Snow say we are going to be there for 50 years?

And it makes sense that Bush is using Israel as a pawn.  Remember: Bush, Cheney and a slew of others are OIL-MEN!  They don’t want alternative energy. They don’t want bio-diesel or ethanol, or wind or solar, or hydrogen. They want Americans driving Hummers and Navigators and gas is now over $3/gal.  They want us using oil, and they want to control the Middle East’s oil supply.  Sure, there will still be South America and Nigeria and Russia.  But if the US controls Arab/Iranian oil, Bush and pals control the world’s oil.

And they want total control, total power, and unimaginable wealth.  Israel? That’s a puppet, a thorn, and an excuse, no more. 

Think I’m wrong? Look at what Bush&Co;, the radical right, and the Christo-fascists have done to our Constitution.  Look how they’ve destroyed every progressive initiative since Grant left office. They’ve even destroyed all the work of one of the greatest GOP presidents ever: Teddy Roosevelt. Didn’t Roosevelt put teeth in Anti-Trust? Gone. Protecting the environment? Gone. Fair Deal? Gone. Pure Food and Drug Act? Gutted and virtually gone.  Sound money? Gone.  All TR initiatives.

Stop fantasizing that Israel is behind it all. That fantasy is either idiotic or anti-semitic.  Facts don’t back it up.  What facts DO back up is that the Christo-Fascists and the reich-wingers have politicized and destroyed our freedoms for their own end of creating a new Christian empire, complete with their own army: Blackwater.

You have the meerkat dominating the lion.  It’s the other way around. Simba’s the boss, not Timon. Stop being fooled by Arab and Nazi propaganda.  No way in Hell any American President is going to be controlled by Israel.  Especially not this headstrong, stubborn ignorant egotistical jackass.

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By nahida, June 8, 2007 at 3:19 am Link to this comment

Israel must recognise Palestinian rights

Israel’s fateful error was to underestimate the resolve of the Palestinians. Tens of thousands have been killed or wounded by the Israeli army since 1967. During 2006, the number of Palestinians killed reached 650. Since the beginning of the Israeli occupation in 1967, more than 650,000 Palestinians have been detained by Israel - about 40% of the male population. Today three-quarters of the Palestinian people are displaced: there are 5 million Palestinian refugees throughout the world. 


With the signing of the Oslo accords in 1993, we were told that things would get better. But life became more hellish as Israel accelerated settlement building and seizures of our land. Meanwhile, the world was fed the fallacy that Israel was defending its “threatened existence”. In reality, it is Israel, through the prosecution of colonial war, that has threatened the Palestinians’ right to live in their land. And when they were most needed, the world’s most powerful states refused to ensure respect for the international law that “the acquisition of territory by force is inadmissible”. 


In contempt of the will of the international community, Israel continues to build its annexationist apartheid wall across the West Bank. Which western state would, in the 21st century, accept that its citizens be literally caged and locked into cantons? 


Undaunted by repression, my people have embraced democracy as a means of struggle and governance. Yet in response the world’s most powerful democracies have imposed an economic blockade against my people, while Israel continues to kill, expropriate and destroy with impunity. The humanitarian catastrophe in the occupied West Bank and Gaza is clearly designed to subvert the elected government and create a client authority that concedes every wish of the occupier. There can be no exit from the impasse without sanctions being lifted and Israel’s release of the hundreds of millions of dollars of our money it has seized. 


In the 1967 war, Israel conquered the land of Palestine but it did not conquer the people. And in its attempt to debase and dehumanise my people, Israel has debased and degraded itself before the family of nations. The 1967 war has over 40 years engendered successive wars and destabilisation of the Middle East. The increasing mistrust between the Arab-Muslim peoples and the western world is rooted in the conflict in Palestine. 


The first step to change this catastrophic climate is for the west to engage with the Palestinian National Unity government, which envisages the establishment of an independent state on all the Palestinian land occupied by Israel in 1967, the dismantling of all the settlements in the West Bank, the release of all 11,000 Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails and the recognition of the right of all Palestinian refugees to return to their homes. If Israel is serious about peace, it has to recognise these basic rights of our people. The 1967 war remains an unfinished chapter. Nothing will stop our struggle for freedom and to have all our children reunited in a fully sovereign state of Palestine, with Jerusalem as its capital. 


- Ismail Haniyeh is the Palestinian prime minister


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2096394,00.html

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By Robert, June 8, 2007 at 12:59 am Link to this comment

Comment #761156 by ITW on 6/7 at 2:35 pm

“Robert,

While I don’t accept these numbers as valid, let’s say they are, just for argument’s sake. That’s over 60 years, right? $108 billion.

Now, if I remember correctly, we are spending $60 billion every year in Iraq and have since the invasion in 2003. So in 4 years we’ve spent $240 billions chasing the Bushian lie and WMD/Al Qaeda lie/fantasy…

So, in just 4 years we’ve spent more than double what we’ve spent on Israel in almost 60 years…

Isn’t that a little like swatting a mosquito while being attacked by a swarm of bees?”
***************************************************

The “conservative” figure of $108 billion for Israel is a lot of money for the American taxpayers. The true figure is much higher than that. As per my comment #76127, the figure is $134,936,680,000 as the total cost to U.S. taxpayers (1949 - November 1997).

You may think of it as a “little sum” when compared to the cost of the Iraq war.

The Iraq war was deceptively planned (for Israel), supported by the famous “zionist establishment” in and around Washington, D.C., Pentagon, State Department and other agencies.

Your zionist pals got us involved in this very costly war in Iraq. Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas feith, Richard Perle, Adelman, Scooter Libby, Elliot Abrams, Ari Fleischer, Chertoff, and many others. It was their damn false lying reports about Iraq’s “WMD’s”. The zionist establishment kept the pressure & the lies on…non-stop. Look at where our country is right now. Look at all the human losses…in the 1000’s for the Americans & in the 10,000’s for the Iraqis.

Look at all the money & resources that we, the American taxpayers, have to dish out for Israel & its damn zionist establishments “WARS”. When one combines all the other factors…it is a lot more than a “mosquito”.

Lets not forget the famous AIPAC gang. They worked hand in hand with the above mentioned zionists. And they are deceptively working on “Iran” ...next.

It was all about Iraq’s “WMD’s”...but there is NO mention of “ISRAEL"S WMD’S”.

Israel has the largest undeclared stockpiles of WMD’s in the region. Where did they get them from? Who helped with the manufacturing & the technology? Where did the Israelis get the uranium & other deadly chemicals from? Just ask Mordechai Vanunu…the Israeli whistle-blower. Google search him & see what has happened to him!

At any rate, Israel & the zionist establishment are extremely costly to the American people & taxpayers.

Just think what all this money can do for America. For our schools, education system, jobs, social security, research, environment, roads, energy, Medicare, prescription drugs for the elderly, the poor ...and much more.

ISRAEL IS A FRAUD. OUR HARD EARNED MONEY NEEDS TO STAY AT HOME & NOT TO THIS GREEDY, NAZI-APARTHEID, RACIST-ZIONIST ESTABLISHMENT.

Your pals on this forum said that “Israel is a good investment”; I say that it is a BAD investment. If its economy is doing so well, as “ill-lie” was bragging, then ALL U.S. AID TO ISRAEL MUST STOP!

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By cann4ing, June 7, 2007 at 9:24 pm Link to this comment

To Tony Wicher, Peter RV, Fadel Abdallah and Robert.  I see that our neighborhood Zionists, Emphraim “Lefty” Pesach, ITW and lilmamzer are back at it.  Their efforts to tar as anti-semitic, anyone who would dare question Israel’s racist subjugation of an occupied population, one which has transformed Gaza into a modern day Warsaw Ghetto is precisely what I expected the moment I read Mr. Hedges thoughtful article, “Looking back on 40 years of occupation.”

As in the past, the four of you have provided factual arguments to counter their many irrational rants.  My only suggestion would be that you repeat some of the links to Prof. Finkelstein et al that you provided elsewhere at this site, so that the Truthdiggers who read this article will have direct access to the delightful wealth of information that you four have provided.

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By Inherit The Wind, June 7, 2007 at 8:33 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“The only thing that matters to democratic prinicple is that the definition of “Jew” does not involve the land of birth and residency, the same
as “White”, “Black”, “Christian”, “Moslem”, “Arab”, etc. This cultural-genetic inheritace cannot determine citizenship in any country, and if it does, that country is not a democracy.”

__________________________________________

Thanks, TW. You keep making my arguments for me. Israel is surrounded by 22 countries that discriminate against non-Arabs and non-Moslems.  You can even add the MOST democratic Moslem state in the region, Turkey, to that group.  Because in Turkey, they don’t believe you can really be a Turk if you are not Moslem.  As I’ve said, I’ve heard them say it (And I love Turkey, having been there a few times—nicest people you ever want to meet).

Those 22 nations seem to get some kind of special exemption from the anti-Israeli gang.  None of you ever acknowledge that what you accuse Israel of, all her neighbors do so matter-of-factly.  Try being a Jew or a Christian in Tunisia, or Libya.  Check out what fun it is not to be Arab (even though Moslem) in Sudan. We have such a close alliance between the Bushes and the Sauds, yet in Saudi Arabia you cannot openly practice Christianity or Judaism.

Yet all of you are blind to them and their tyranny in your rather demented hatred of Israel.  Nor is there ever any recognition that those 22 fellow Arab Moslem states never reached out a hand to the Palestinians, never offered them a home, but only used them as a pawn.

The only nation in the middle east that even has the trappings of a real democracy is Israel. None of the others even comes close by YOUR OWN DEFINITION, Tony!

I still do not understand how you can defend such a postion.

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By Tony Wicher, June 7, 2007 at 7:14 pm Link to this comment

Following is part of an Tikkun article by Michael Lerner, commenting on why the strategy of smearing all critics of Israel as anti-Semitic is backfiring in the worst way. 

Lerner:

Israeli behavior might have led to anger only against Israelis, had it not been for the fact that virtually every organized Jewish community in the world claims that Israel is “the Jewish state” and then contributes large sums of money to support its activities. But Jews cannot have it both ways. Either Israel is a state like other states, having no special relationship to Judaism or the Jewish people except that a lot of Jews live there (as they do in the U.S. as well), or if Israel is in fact a manifestation of the Jewish people and Judaism so that Jews and those friendly to the Jewish people are expected to support it, then Jews cannot be surprised if anger at Israeli policies slips over into anger at the Jewish people who claim to overwhelmingly support that state. And that anger grows dramatically when AIPAC manages to convince otherwise liberal or progressive elected officials that they dare not speak publicly the upset they feel at Israeli policy, lest they face an organized campaign to label them as “anti-Israel” and defeat them in elections by providing financial and political support for their opponents.

The anger grows stronger when Jews and non-Jews encounter the efforts in the organized Jewish community to suppress debate, and when hundreds of thousands of the members of that American Jewish community join in labeling as anti-Semitic or as “self-hating Jews” those who critique publicly Israeli policy.

We have no sympathy with those who hate Jews for any reason, and insist that generalizing to an entire people from the behavior of some, even their elected government or the state that they support, is illegitimate. We don’t accept anti-Americanism from those who rightly are outraged at US policy around the world, and we don’t accept anti-Semitism from those who are outraged at Israeli policies. But we also recognize that if the public perception continues to be that large majorities in the Jewish world stand behind Israeli policy no matter how destructive or immoral, the likelihood of real anti-Semites becoming successful in manipulating the legitimate moral outrage people feel toward Israeli policies. So Israel’s policies are not only immoral, but also self-destructive.

We have a great deal of compassion for people on all sides of this struggle.

Jews as a people, both in Israel and around the world, are a traumatized people suffering from PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder). In my lifetime one out of every three Jews on the planet were murdered. Is it a surprise that our people are completely disoriented, and though seeming to function in a rational way in pursuing their own personal self-interests, are actually unable to think rationally about their own survival as a people, but instead simply are acting out on others the trauma that was acted out upon us.

Similarly, though we are very critical of the role Arabs played in the period before the creation of the State of Israel, we have compassion for how the trauma of the expulsion from their homes and the subsequent life in refugee camps and under Israeli occupation has led to Palestinians also becoming a traumatized people suffering from PTSD and unable to think rationally about their own survival as a people, instead embracing one false messiah after another from Nasser to Arafat to Saddam Hussein to the current leaders of Hamas and Hezbollah. and embracing armed struggle when it was obvious that violence and terrorism had only impact: to strengthen the hands of the most hateful and militaristic elements in the Jewish world.

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By Tony Wicher, June 7, 2007 at 6:37 pm Link to this comment

#76176 by lilmamzer on 6/08 at 12:26 am
(102 comments total)

“There is no such thing as a Jewish race. Thee are Jews from all races - black African Jews, dark-skinned Jews from India, Jews from Arab countries, Jews from Europe and South America, Jews from all over the globe, including Japan and China.”
————————————————————————-
Lil,

The only thing that matters to democratic prinicple is that the definition of “Jew” does not involve the land of birth and residency, the same
as “White”, “Black”, “Christian”, “Moslem”, “Arab”, etc. This cultural-genetic inheritace cannot determine citizenship in any country, and if it does, that country is not a democracy.

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By Tony Wicher, June 7, 2007 at 6:14 pm Link to this comment

Re #76075 by lilmamzer on 6/07 at 10:45 am

Yes, but all these wonderful acheivements are negated by what Israel has done to the Palestinians. Include the Palestinians, share all these benefits with them (as you have forced them to share their country with you) and then, perhaps, Israel will really be what you now falsely claim it is. Because of what it is doing to the Palestinians, Israel is rotting morally from within, all their acheivements notwithstanding.

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By lilmamzer, June 7, 2007 at 5:26 pm Link to this comment

#76124 by Matt:
Plenty of Jewish citizens of many countries in the world, even long before Israel was created, have always been doing and making wonderful things, inventing this or patenting that.</b

How do they ever find time to control banking, the media, and pull the strings of government?
=========================================
<b>That has NOTHING to do with Zionism’s workableness as a racial/nationalist project.

There is no such thing as a Jewish race. Thee are Jews from all races - black African Jews, dark-skinned Jews from India, Jews from Arab countries, Jews from Europe and South America, Jews from all over the globe, including Japan and China. You would never be able to individuals from different races and exclude the very real possibility that they might be Jews. You need to get off this Zionist-Racist thing. It simply has no bearing on reality. Zionism is, however, the central idea of Jewish nationalism, and, by definition, is not racist in theory or in practice. It has been, by your own term “workableness”, a remarkable success. Jews from all over the world, from ALL RACES and ethnic backgrounds, have become productive and vital participants in the renewal of Jewish sovereignty in Israel, helping to build a vibrant and viable society and economy. My previously posted examples were intended to show that Israel has managed, in a very few decades, to move from a third-world agrarian economy to a first-world high-tech leader in research and development. And is a net food exporter. That is success by any standard.

By the way, the dictionary definition of “workable” is this - “practicable or feasible”.

Well, there she is, a highly productive economy, capable of defending herself, educating her citizens, feeding her citizens and exporting the surplus. Sounds practical and feasible to me.

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By lilmamzer, June 7, 2007 at 5:07 pm Link to this comment

#76167 by Billy the Dik:
You’re really getting desperately spastic now, thunderthroat!  You prove that I didn’t just shit in your lunch before you ate it.

Wow.

Smooth, Billy.

Do you even know any Jews? (remember - “Rabbi” Michael Lerner doesn’t count, and neither does Chomsky)

You need to go out and get to know the Jewish community herein the US and around the world. When you do that, you will understand the centrality of Israel to Jewish life and culture, and the enormous love and support from Jews around the world.

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By lilmamzer, June 7, 2007 at 5:01 pm Link to this comment

#76137 by Robert

Money well spent. In the context of the entire foreign aid program of the US, and in the context of our US political, military, and of course, moral objectives, aid to Israel was and will continue to be the right thing to do.

Thanks for the information.

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By Inherit The Wind, June 7, 2007 at 3:35 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“Washington Report On Middle East Affairs

A CONSERVATIVE ESTIMATE OF TOTAL DIRECT U.S. AID TO ISRAEL: $108 BILLION

By Shirl McArthur (a retired U.S. foreign service officers, is a consultant in Washington, D.C. area)

Check out Table 1 & Table 2 for statistical details. Also, read the special “notes” and narratives concerning figures & impacts on the U.S.”

********************************************

Robert,
While I don’t accept these numbers as valid, let’s say they are, just for argument’s sake.  That’s over the course of Israel’s nearly 60 years, right?
$108 Billion.

Now, if I remember correctly, we are spending $60 billion every year in Iraq and have since the invasion in 2003.  So in 4 years we’ve spent $240 billions chasing the Bushian lie and WMD/Al Qaeda lie/fantasy…

So, in just 4 years we’ve spent more than double what we’ve spent on Israel in almost 60 years…

Isn’t that a little like swatting a mosquito while being attacked by a swarm of bees?

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By Robert, June 7, 2007 at 2:34 pm Link to this comment

Washington Report On Middle East Affairs

A CONSERVATIVE ESTIMATE OF TOTAL DIRECT U.S. AID TO ISRAEL: $108 BILLION


By Shirl McArthur (a retired U.S. foreign service officers, is a consultant in Washington, D.C. area)


Check out Table 1 & Table 2 for statistical details. Also, read the special “notes” and narratives concerning figures & impacts on the U.S.


Here is the link to the facts on U.S. Aid to Israel:


http://www.wrmea.com/archives/July_2006/0607016.html

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By Robert, June 7, 2007 at 2:10 pm Link to this comment

U.S. FINANCIAL AID TO ISRAEL: FIGURES, FACTS, AND IMPACT (benefits since 1949 -as of 11/1997)

SUMMARY:

Foreign Aid Grants and Loans
$74,157,600,00

Other U.S. Aid
$9,047,227,200

Interest to Israel from Advanced Payments
$1,650,000,000

Grand Total
$84,854,827,200

Total Benefits per Israeli
$14,630
——————————————————————-

Cost to U.S. Taxpayers of U.S. Aid to Israel:

Grand Total
$84,854,827,200

Interest Costs to U.S. Taxpayers
$49,936,680,000

Total Cost to U.S. Taxpayers
$134,936,680,000

Total Taxpayer Cost per Israeli
$23,240
——————————————————————————-

Special Reports:

Congress Watch

Congressional Research Report

U.S. Aid to Israel: The Strategic Functions

U.S. Aid to Israel: What Taxpayers Should Know

U.S. Aid to Israel: Interpreting the ‘Strategic Relationship’

—————————————————————————

Here are the facts & $$$ figures for/about “U.S. Aid to Israel”.

Click & check on the “Special Reports” for the impact on the United States & The American Taxpayers.


http://www.wrmea.com/us_aid_to_israel/index.htm

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By Matt, June 7, 2007 at 2:02 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

lilmamzer:

Have you noticed that all your lists of lovely Israeli accomplishments have nothing to do with the basic question of whether racialist/apartheid/ethno-religious nationalist Israel is workable AS A COUNTRY.

Plenty of Jewish citizens of many countries in the world, even long before Israel was created, have always been doing and making wonderful things, inventing this or patenting that. That has NOTHING to do with Zionism’s workableness as a racial/nationalist project.

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By lilmamzer, June 7, 2007 at 1:44 pm Link to this comment

#76112 by Robert: Ill-lie-mamzie…you have been frothing at the mouth & bragging about your Apartheid zionist Israel for the past several weeks.

Frothing? I have been writing clear, concise, cogent and correct refutations of the most absurd allegations regarding the Arab war against Israel.

As for bragging, I merely state the facts. Am I proud of what Israel has achieved in the past few decades? Absolutely. And I look forward to much more in the future.

By the way, you wouldn’t be reading this post if not for the Israeli-designed chip in your PC.

Just thought I’d mention that. Is that frothing, too?

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By lilmamzer, June 7, 2007 at 1:40 pm Link to this comment

#76117 by Billy the Dik:

Illandvomiting, 99.9% of Jews support a Jewish State? Hahahahahhahahahha Another NaZionist LIE.  You really take the cake, man.  Reality never intrudes on the bullshit your daddy fed you, does it…

OK, refute it with some evidence. Show polling data. Go out in the community and talk with actual, real Jews. In your town, go to all the local synagogues and Jewish Day Schools, across the US, around the world, and see for yourself. Ask them if they support the State of Israel. Ask them if they believe as you seem to, that Israel = Nazi Germany.
But remember, “be polite”.

Ummm, and “Rabbi” Michael Lerner doesn’t count.

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By lilmamzer, June 7, 2007 at 1:35 pm Link to this comment

#76112 by Robert:

Your Israel cannot survive without the billions of dollars & all other aid that comes from the American taxpayers.

That’s a falsehood. Israel receives about $3 billion in military loans and credits from the US, most of which are spent here in the US for defense requirements and on joint research projects. That money gets pumped BACK into the US economy, dude. The Israeli economy is doing well enough on its own, and I have posted evidence previously.
==================================
We can’t see your abscessed head out of all that garbage that you are standing in! Hit that dusty trail…

Hit the trail? Is that your way of telling me not to speak out? How very “progressive” of you to squash dissent, to limit freedom of expression and speech. Of course, if you don’t like what I have to say, just make me go away instead of using reason and rational arguments - sheeesh - the irony of “progressive politics”.....are you a fascist or a liberal?  You need to do some serious thinking about that.

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By lilmamzer, June 7, 2007 at 1:26 pm Link to this comment

#76098 by Billy the Dik: What is obvious is that people like me, Robert,Greg, Frikken kids,Nahida, Norman Finkelstein, Rabbi Lerner, Chomsky, Zinn, etc. etc. etc., are concerned about what will best serve future generations of Jews

It’s very touching that you seem to think you know what’s better for the Jews than 99.99% of the real Jews in the world, who overwhelming support and believe and love the State of Israel more than you can ever know. Bringing out your far-left token Jews such as the internationally-ridiculed (and rightfully so) “Rabbi” Michael Lerner do not (and I can’t repeat that strongly enough) add even a veneer of legitimnacy to your genocidal position.

By the way, I have a stack of old Tikkun magazines in my basement which I use to line the cat’s litter box.

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By Robert, June 7, 2007 at 1:22 pm Link to this comment

Ill-lie-mamzie…you have been frothing at the mouth & bragging about your Apartheid zionist Israel for the past several weeks.

All what we can see out of all your hysterical propaganda is stenchy garbage. Your Israel cannot survive without the billions of dollars & all other aid that comes from the American taxpayers.

We can’t see your abscessed head out of all that garbage that you are standing in! Hit that dusty trail…

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By lilmamzer, June 7, 2007 at 1:19 pm Link to this comment

#76098 by Billy the Dik: What is obvious is that people like me, Robert,Greg, Frikken kids,Nahida, Norman Finkelstein, Rabbi Lerner, Chomsky, Zinn, etc. etc. etc., are concerned about what will best serve future generations of Jews

What is obvious is that you and the token Jews you mention are not at all concerned with what best serves Jews (or Arabs for that matter), but what best serves your burning desire to see the demise of Jewish sovereignty and the State of Israel. The most twisted part of your worldview is that you believe that by destroying Jewish national identity you are doing the Jews a favor.

Favors like that were handed out by Germany in the 30s and 40s.

Do the Jews a real favor and read abook NOT authored by a far-left idealogues such as Chomsky, Lerner, Zinn, Finkelstein, or any of the other fringe characters you ALWAYS trot out to prop up your lame arguments.

Nahida must be on your list as the token Arab. At least she doesn’t pay lip service to the “saving the Jews from themselves” baloney. She’s an honest, straight-up, Jew-hating Muslim, straight from the burning sands of Arabia, from the sound of her Wahhabi-inspired posts. How curious you lump her in with your house-Jews.

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By lilmamzer, June 7, 2007 at 1:08 pm Link to this comment

#76101 by Robert: Zionism bases its current policies & propaganda on ancient beliefs that God promised the Jews “The Promised Land”.

You should ask a Zionist what it means instead of blowing it out your ass.

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By Robert, June 7, 2007 at 12:57 pm Link to this comment

Comment #76093 by Billy TD on 6/7

Billy,


Zionism bases its current policies & propaganda on ancient beliefs that God promised the Jews “The Promised Land”.


ONE COULD ASK…WHERE DID GOD PROMISE THE JEWS THE PROMISED LAND AND FOR THE PALESTINIANS…BRUTAL OCCUPATION, REFUGEE CAMPS & ZIONIST RACISM?

WHERE IS THAT SPECIFICALLY WRITTEN AT?

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By lilmamzer, June 7, 2007 at 12:44 pm Link to this comment

#76093 by Billy the Dik:

OK, it’s workable, as long as it can feed at Washington’s tit and with whatever suffering it can nourish its vampire bloodlust on.  Israel is writing its own death sentence.  Without the internet they might have extended their reign of self-loathing run amok.  The world has grown tired of their ZioNazi tactics of trying to censor anybody who uncovers the truth.  If Israel’s crimes against humanity were not a reality Jews would welcome such charges with open arms and prove them false.  Instead, like the Nazis before them, they turn red in the face, pound their sissy fists, and deny those not willing to buy lies for the fulfillment of Zionist delusions of grandeur their democratic rights to refute vicious lies.  Then they resort to the cheap tricks they learned in law school.  Your unrestrained hatred of self and those weaker is OVER!!  This future you have bestowed even unto your own grandchildren.  Eternal Shame on Your Name!


Whatever.

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By Matt, June 7, 2007 at 12:13 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Israel is the only country in the Middle East that actually DOES work.
————

Oh, please! Israel is a hothouse orchid, unsustainable without billions from the US (trillions, if you count all the wars we fight for you). All that largesse, and you’re still not even clearly viable!


Or maybe this is a better metaphor:


Israel is a fraying, fragile, patently fake Zionist stage setting.

The walls shake embarrassingly when characters enter and exit through the door.

The hammy actors, the hapless director, producers, and stage managers are barely managing to suspend the remaining audience’s disbelief.

In ever greater numbers the disgusted subscribers walk out, shaking their heads and demanding their money back.

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By lilmamzer, June 7, 2007 at 11:57 am Link to this comment

#76044 by Tony Wicher: I’m afraid the whole Zionist project was always unworkable.

Continiuing with some examples of how Israel works, Tony Wicher’s outer-space fantasies notwithstanding….....
==========================================
Israel Tests New Drugs for Emphysema Breakthrough. Israeli Kamada, a bio-pharmaceutical developer and manufacturer of prescription drugs, has been granted by the European Agency for the Evaluation of Medicinal Products (the EMEA), approval of its plan to begin phase 1 clinical trials on a respiratory form of its API drug product. Successful results of the clinical trials of the respiratory form will mark a breakthrough in the treatment of Congenital Emphysema, as well as other lung disease indications.

Mercury acquisition by HP for $4.5 billion proves Israel’s software leadership. Mercury is an Israeli company that started out as an Israeli start-up, based in Israel and founded on Israeli know-how is significant. The know-how of the company and its people is what is being bought.

HBO orders 40 episodes of Israeli series. HBO has decided to order 40 new episodes of the series “Treatment,” based on the critically-acclaimed Israeli television series “Betipul.” The series portrays a psychologist who treats patients at his clinic five days a week and then seeks psychological treatment for himself. The original Israeli series was aired on the Israeli HOT cable network and starred actor Assi Dayan. HBO will cast actor Gabriel Byrne (The Usual Suspects) in the leading role as the psychologist. The 45 episodes will be the same number of episodes originally aired in Israel.
=========================
I could keep this list going all day, but the picture is clear. All the propaganda from the Truthdig Klan cannot obscure the fact that Israel is a success. The most ethnically diverse, free, open, and advanced country in the Middle East continues to thrive. Can you say that about the 22 Arab nation-states? Why won’t you call them “unworkable”?

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By lilmamzer, June 7, 2007 at 11:50 am Link to this comment

#76044 by Tony Wicher: I’m afraid the whole Zionist project was always unworkable.

Continiuing with some examples of how Israel works, Tony Wicher’s outer-space fantasies notwithstanding….....
==========================================
Israeli male lifespan among highest in developed countries. Men in only five countries have longer lifespans than Israeli males, who live an average of 78 years: Iceland (79.2), Japan (78.6), Switzerland (78.6), Sweden (78.4), and Australia (78.1). The average lifespan is one measure for defining quality of life and differentiating between developed and undeveloped countries.

Israeli Scientists Develop Heart Muscle With Embryonic Stem Cells. In a breakthrough development, Israeli researchers have successfully created new heart muscle with a built-in blood supply by using human embryonic stem cells. The Technion-Israel Institute of Technology scientists say they new development could now make possible the replacement of tissue damaged in heart attacks. It is the first time the researchers have created a three-dimensional cardiac tissue with blood vessels.

Israeli Bomb-Sniffing Breakthrough for Bags.Israeli startup TraceGuard aims to thwart terrorists with technology it claims can detect solid and liquid explosives with greater accuracy… Jews will help keep you safe when you fly, Tony Wicher - think about it

Israeli invention gives paralyzed a chance to walk. An Israeli-developed and manufactured wireless, computer-controlled device that enables safe walking for people with a foot paralyzed due to stroke, brain injury, cerebral palsy, spinal cord injury or multiple sclerosis has received approval from the US Food and Drug Administration.

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By lilmamzer, June 7, 2007 at 11:45 am Link to this comment

#76044 by Tony Wicher: I’m afraid the whole Zionist project was always unworkable.

Unworkable? Israel is the only country in the Middle East that actually DOES work. What planet are you on?
==========================================
Israel Startups Raise $1.62B. Israeli high-tech startups raised $1.62 billion in 2006, the highest amount in five years. The figure represented a 21 percent rise over the previous year. An Israel Venture Capital (IVC) Research Center survey noted that 402 companies raised funds from foreign and local venture investors. Life science startups raised $369 million last year, a record since the survey began in 1999. In the fourth quarter of 2006, local high-tech firms raised $477 million, a 25 percent increase over the previous quarter. The rise was particularly noteworthy as it followed this summer’s war along Israel’s northern border.

Israeli Company make Fish Farming more Environmentally Safe. Israeli-based Atlantium has developed a UV filter system already in use in Turkey to decrease the need for nasty fish antibiotics by about 90 percent. The largest food conglomerate in Turkey increased production of the two types of fish they grow by 50 and 100 percent, while reducing antibiotic use by 90 percent. Maintenance was reduced from 30 hours to less than one hour per month with hardly any downtime, all of which lead to significantly increased profits. Atlantium’s UV-filter is also ideal for cleaning up the aftermath left by natural disasters such as Hurricane Katrina.

New Intel chips based on technology developed in Israel. Intel has replaced its basic series of processors with the new Core 2 Duo series, which has doubled the computing core, and was designed at Intel’s Haifa R&D center in Israel.

Israeli/US students design for light helicopter wins international competition. Thirteen engineering and aeronautics students at the Technion-Israel Institute of Technology, in cooperation with students at the Pennsylvania State University, have won first prize in an international competition for helicopter design run by Bell Helicopters and the American Helicopter Society. Dubbed “GrassChopper,” the judges panel found the winning model much superior to the other designs in altitude and speed.

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By lilmamzer, June 7, 2007 at 11:20 am Link to this comment

#76044 by Tony Wicher: I’m afraid the whole Zionist project was always unworkable.

I think the only fear you have is that Jews control their own destiny for the first time in thousands of years by re-establishing their own sovereignty in Israel.

Unworkable? The Israeli economy is growing faster than any economy in Europe, certainly faster than that of any Arab country when oil profits are excluded (after all, the Arabs don’t produce the oil, they merely sit on the land).

Israel produces more engineers per capita than any nation on the planet. This is reflected in the advances made in the high tech and medical technologies sectors in Israel. The Pentium chip in your computer was designed in Israel.

Israel manages to forge ahead as a First-World nation despite the heavy defense burden thrust upon her by 60 years of incessant Arab genocidal hostility and five major wars waged against her.

Israel is the most multi-cultural society in the Middle East, and as such it is the only true functioning democracy, with protections for all faiths and all beliefs across the entire political spectrum, your nonsensical propaganda notwithstanding. Before you try to tar Israel as “unworkable” you should take a look at Suadi Arabia and Syria and Lebanon and tell me what works about those repressive/regressive palces. Try carrying a King James Bible into Saudi Arabia, Tony Wicher. See how far you get.

The “Zionist project” has been an incredible success by any standard. The Jewish population continues to grow, the economy is rapidly expanding and is a world leader in arts and sciences, the universities are top-notch and offer true academic freedom, women and minorities enjoy rights and freedoms unheard of anywhere else in the Middle East, and yet you single Israel out as “unworkable”. Any idea how many of the 22 Arab nation-states qualify as failed states? Care to hazard a guess and then decide which of those are “unworkable”?

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By lilmamzer, June 7, 2007 at 11:08 am Link to this comment

#76022 by nahida

I asked you a very simple yes/no question, and you have failed to give an appropriate response.

Of course, the subtext of your posts is the answer you are afraid to say openly: “NO”.

So, I will ask one more time: Can you agree that Jews have a right to live as a free and independent nation in their homeland of Israel?

Or, let me ask another way, to make it more palatable for you to utter the (ridiculously)unspeakable: Can you agree that Jews have a right to live as a free and independent nation in their homeland of Israel while Arabs of 22 independent nation-states have the right to live freely in theirs?

If your answer is no (and nobody doubts that it isn’t exactly that), why not just say it instead of running off a litany of out-of-context figures, half-triths, and outright lies?

You seem much more satisfied wrapping yourself in dogma and party lines than examining the essential questions of our time. That is intellectually lazy as well as disingenuous, Nahida.

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By Tony Wicher, June 7, 2007 at 10:39 am Link to this comment

#75940 by Billy the Dik on 6/06 at 10:24 pm
(106 comments total)

“Robert, yep, we’ve got their number and they don’t like it at all.  The grotesque hypocrisy is that these are tactics perfected by the Nazis: SILENCE DISSENT!!!  This is also the very opposite of what democracy means.  In short, these fraudulent farts are thinking like the most creepy, up-for-sale lawyer:

1). If the facts are against you, go with the law.

2). If the law is against you, go with the facts.

3), If the law and the facts are against you, throw mud.

4). Deny, deny, deny.

5). Change the subject.

6). Sleep the sleep of the hyena.”
—————————————————————————
This is a very accurate description of Zionist tactics. Just listen to Lefty and lil.   
This is how a slime bucket of a lawyer like Dershowitz defends guilty-as-sin clients. But the sin of Zionism will out like murder.

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By Tony Wicher, June 7, 2007 at 10:15 am Link to this comment

Re #75966 by Billy the Dik on 6/07 at 12:53 am

I’m afraid the whole Zionist project was always unworkable. If it had been a matter of Jews migrating to the Holy Land and building communities, while living peacefully with their non-Jewish neighbors, it could have worked. But the idea of a “Jewish state” and “Jewish self-defense” was given a huge impetus by the Holocaust, and it is ironic that only three years after the Holocaust ended, the Nakba began. The idea of a “Jewish state” is completely unworkable, as Jews are finally beginning to admit - and the sooner the better.

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By Charles Barton, June 7, 2007 at 9:35 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I would like to call your attention to Mshari Al-Zaydi comments in today’s Asharq Alawsat, an Arab Newspaper. 

http://www.aawsat.com/english/news.asp?section=2&id=9195

Al-Zaydi argues that Arabs are trapped in the past.  They hold to the same illusions that brought them defeat in 1948 and 1967, so that they suffer the same defeat over and over again. 

“Mohamed Hassanein Heikal (a long time Egyptian government propaganda spokesman), the symbol of media defeat, is still talking and talking and talking through his forum on ‘Al Jazeera’. What does this mean?! It means that criticism is a virtue that is not practiced here and that we are creative in the art of accommodating ourselves and others to delusion.”

Al-Zaydi completely ignores illusion serving criticisms of Israel, and focuses instead on the harm that the illusions have done to the Palestinians:
 
“We should have reviewed our history and entire discourse and recognized our true stature – without lies. Moreover, we should have determined our capabilities whilst discerning truth from falsities. A rational shock should have occurred to shake off history, examine the present and come up with an explanation as to why our part of the world has been resisting development, power and growth!”

“Imagine, after forty years since the defeat and too many promises made about the war to restore our dignity, we are now talking about Fatah al Islam, Osbat al Ansar and Jund al Sham in the Palestinian refugee camps!”

“In Gaza, both Hamas and Fatah are slaying one another while the world is fed up with us and our endless crises.”

“It only takes one moment to break this cycle and release the questions from their cyclical prison. Then our world can shed its cover and our culture can emerge from behind the lies – only then can our time stretch and break free from the boundaries of closed circuits.”

Al-Zaydi cuts to the quick: “they immersed themselves in a vast sea of darkness; an Arab sea of darkness that swallowed up every spark of rationale or criticism.”

Here we see an Arab who is willing to talk in terms of self criticism and reason I hope that this is a sign of change.

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