Re #71460 by JNagarya on 5/21 at 10:36 am

The difference between the rule of law and politics is crucial. If this were a matter of politics, we should wait until November 2008. But this administration has committed the gravest crimes of state. The upholding of Constitutional law is a matter of evidence and investigation and due process. Investigation takes time. Due process takes time. 

Do Democrats have any political motives that would prevent the investigation from going all the way to impeachment and conviction? I suppose it depends on how dirty the Democrats are, how much they have to cover up. We shall see. But you would think that they would relish the opportunity, after what the Republicans did to Clinton. They get their revenge by doing the right thing. It’s a God-given opportunity. How can they resist? 

I don’t see any point in a third party. Hey, we Democrats are a big tent party. Communists welcome. No use sitting out there in a phone booth all by yourselves. But the idea of a Kucinich-Paul bipartisan national peace ticket appeals to me.

Ernest Canning---I agree. We disagree over semantics perhaps.  My frustration is with with my fellow American Citizens who have become too easily duped by propaganda. I personally am aware of all the sites that you refer to and have gotten very interested in reading much of the alternative media in this country and outside of it over the last few years. I no longer look at the Nightly News as anything other than infotainment.  While the reality is that alot of Americans are not dumb per se, the bombardment of propaganda has programmed the electorate. We have become far less intellectually curious than we should be. The Propaganda Matrix, and not just The “Faux News” Network creates a ruberic whereby Americans are put on one side or another. And I have seen how far too many people actually believe that Neo-con henchmen like William Kristol, Bill O’Reilly and Sean Hannity are perceived to be legitimate journalists, rather than what they are, Murdoch’s disinformation machinists.

Re comment #41714 by LondonInNY.  The only area in which you and I disagree is in your assessment that the American people are “dumb.” I think there is a vast swath of the population which is either uninformed, or worse, misinformed due to the fact that whenever they turn on what they perceive to be the “nighly news,” they are bombarded by propaganda.

During the Danny Schechter documentary, “Weapons of Mass Deception,” Paul Krugman observed, “You ask why do the Europeans see things so differently, well, one answer is...they don’t have...’Countdown iraq,’ SHOWDOWN IRAQ,’ Target Iraq’ on their screens nonstop.”

While comedians like John Stewart and Bill Mayer are actually better sources of information than any of the pundits, the best source of detailed information is Democracy Now! available at Democracy Now.org.  If you haven’t already done so, I would encourage you to pull-up their Monday-Friday broadcasts--you can go into their archives as well.  (It can also be linked at this web site).

I concur with JNagarya’s statement that we can’t just be talking amongst ourselves.  (By the way, J, your “best government money can buy” tracks the title of a book by investigative reporter, Greg Palast, “The Best Democracy Money Can Buy.") But be warned, there is a level of responsibility that will accompany your discovery of the treasure trove of knowledge available at Democracy Now!  You can’t keep it to yourself.  You should then do what I am doing--encouraging everyone you come into contact with to tune into Democracy Now!

The answer to our present malaise lies within the Latin phrase, Scienter est Potentia (knowledge is power).  The best defense against tyranny lies within an informed citizenry.

#71460 by JNagarya on 5/21 at 10:36 am Actually you should know that I respect your knowledge of the Rule of Law I have read some of your other posts and find them informative. .  My point is you should respect the opinions of other posters even if you disagree with them or they seem elementary to you. 

It would be much more effective and positive if you mentored instead of insulated people that you find unknowing of your knowledge.
Actually your insults to me did not make any impression except that I am flattered you read my post, however I really did not focus on your points.  Most of us here have a lot to learn about the rule of law, in fact I am worried about the way things are going.

Your comments about my experinece and me are uninformed and inaccurate. 

As an artist, I would never insult an other artists work even if I did not like it. 

My point JNagarya, insulting people by name calling will never get you a positive results.
To me your sincerity. may be questionable. 
Your seem to use the same approach as the Republicans when you disagree with someone. you Insult and belittle the messenger and then drive home your opinion or your point or opinion. 

JNagaryua, I believe you have much to offer us. Those of us that may be unknowlegable on the Rule of Law, please do it in a positive light.  JNagaryus convince me, do not insult me. 

PS. I love Mark Twain and have some of his works in my library and please accept my apologize for suggesting that you are the Dear Abby of Truth Dig.

If you move over to the Hillary site, you will see many posters that agree with my opinions but, without my form of rhetoric posted in my original twit post. I had to work hard not post any rhetoric on this post, because I love to write. I have stated before my opinions are in flux.

give it a rest people. we all got screwed in the ass. the infectious cum will be dripping for years. all you can do is hope for a cure somewhere down the road.

To “Ernest Canning” I asked that question rhetorically but your answer is most welcome and enlightening. The only thing that frustrates and saddens me is that the intellectual energy on this board is not reflected more widely in the general population. John Stewart and the Huffington Post only scratch the surface. My fellow Americans are so numb, consumed with surviving, holding on to our jobs, saving a few pennies for retirement and not otherwise rocking the boat, that we repeately fall prey to politicians who are all too happy to keep raping us with the complicity of the Corporate Media. Democracy is dying, breathing its last gasp and yet still their is a wide swath of America that sees Truth, Justice and the American Way as the enemy. Empty suits like Mitt Romney are viewed as fresh faced saviors. BUT,can we as Americans handle the truth? Even when the messengers of truth are not as pretty and well coifed and thus do not get the media attention that they deserve. As Americans we really need to look in the mirror and see the parallels with this and other fascist regimes in history. We need to recognize that folks like Dennis Kucinich, Ron Paul, David Ray Griffin, Michael Ruppert and others are HEROES for at least challenging the political orthodoxy and ruling classes in this country who do not believe in your knowing or having access to the truth. If this was a free country, Dick Cheney would be hanging from a tree with a noose around his neck and Bush would soon thereafter be headed to the gallows. The world would have been safer if Bush/Cheney faced execution for their crimes. As Jon Stewart stated to Chuck Schumer, in response to the Senator’s statement that what Gonzales did almost makes you want to gulp. “Almost gulp?!” Asked Stewart in response. What is it going to take to make you actually gulp? Do these guys have to sodomize the declaration of independence in front of you?” A second American Revolution is necessary indeed. The Democrats are not the answer to bringing down Republican Acts of Treason, hence the false left/right paradigm in America. It is morning in America indeed.

“#71455 by Leefeller on 5/21 at 9:54 am
(40 comments total)

“One other poster, whom I feel has assumed the position of (Dear Abby of Truth Dig} chastised me for the following statment “We have the best government money can buy”, I happen to belive this, but can change it to read, “we have the best government that can waste money”.  I know Rhetoric, but it gets to the point.”

Twit --

Your first inadequacy is the inability to distinguish between politics, on one hand, and on the other, law.  That is the saame flaw we see in the contemporary Republican Party.  It’s all and only politics.  Everybody does it, so it’s okay for us to do it.

Your second inadequacy is the unwillingness to inform yourself not only of the applicable laws, but also beyond the fashionable but juvenile cynicism in which you pride yourself.

Your third inadequacy is the lack of guts to name names, instead of engaging in sideways sniping.

Those are sufficient to make the point that not everyone is a member of your “We’re so clever, and hipper than everyone else” choir.

I have an education in law; you do not.  And I’ll not tolerate insults from sniveling cowards such as yourself.  The cure for Bushit, et al., is compliance with and restoration of the rule of law—not instead acting exactly as do Bushit, et al.  And certainly not the constant bashing of those in a position, and of a disposition, to do that.

Instead of doing nothing but sit on your ass and bash Democrats as excuse to do nothing but that, how about learning to see beyond the surface by actually learning that not everything Congress does or is doing is ready to view, therefore any arrogantly presumptive conclusion that they aren’t doing anything is unavoidably uninformed, and false.  That would be constructive, whereas your snide sideways smears are, at most mature, juvenile, and destructive.

I read more Mark Twain during high school than you could imagine yourself doing.  I therefore know all his criticisms of gov’t—“Congress, that grand old national asylum for the helpless,” and so on.  That does not make them wholly true; nor are they to be excuses for doing nothing but sitting on one’s “superior” ass and bashing everyone in politics on the false ground that “they’re all corrupt”. 

Shit, or get off the pot.  If you want Congress to do the will of We the people, then let Congress know what that will is.  Bashing them, instead, is a waste of irreplaceable time.

#71444 by Ernest Canning on 5/21 at 9:08 am

Seems like we are always preaching to the choir here, but you are on the money on this one, no pun intended. 

One other poster, whom I feel has assumed the position of (Dear Abby of Truth Dig} chastised me for the following statment “We have the best government money can buy”, I happen to belive this, but can change it to read, “we have the best government that can waste money”.  I know Rhetoric, but it gets to the point.

Me, myself and I, now known as the uninformed twit, really believe there are few differences between both political parties except, one seems to appeal to larger number of imbeciles. 

Only three candidates from the two parities seem to offer solutions on issues that are tearing our country apart. Paul, on the war.  Dennis Kucinich on most everything and Mike Gravel on the war and some issues.  All the others candiates seem to be in the pockets of big money or in Never Neverland.  Main stream media is shoving the pablum candidates down our throats, we need to push back. 

My rants, my rants are my rants.

Re LondonInNY’s query, why aren’t more Democrats getting behind Kucinich?  Answer:  The conglomerated corporate media which not only seeks to control who we elect but how we elect.  An ever shrinking number of giant corporations controls what most Americans see, hear and read.  They have a vested interest in the status quo.  There are sound financial reasons for evading meaningful electoral coverage that would actually link candidates to their positions on issues that truly matter to the vast majority of Americans--the middle and working classes.

The privatizing schemes of rampant American crony capitalism have corrupted almost every field of human endeavor, including the media and how elections are run.  By spending more time on celebrity journalism, by limiting coverage to horse-race (polling) questions concerning so-called “leading” candidates and such inane irrelevancies as the price of a candidate’s haircut, the corporate media forces candidates to spend billions on 30-second, spot ads.  Since only those candidates who sell out to the corporatocracy can raise the money necessary to purchase those spot ads, they are the only candidates the corporate media decides are worthy of our attention.  Indeed, the sums raised by a candidate is one of the criteria used to determine whether they are worthy of coverage.  A deliberate effort is made to marginalize all other candidates, especially Mr. Kucinich who represents a threat to their monopoly control of the public airwaves. 

Where campaigns are relatively short affairs within the parliamentary democracies in the U.K. and Europe, the U.S. has degenerated into a permanent campaign mode so that the corporatist candidates will have sufficient time to raise the monies necessary to feed the conglomerated media noise machine.

Like all marketing schemes, the ads purchased by the corporate-backed candidates are designed to deceive the electorate, which, so long as it acts as passive consumers, will continue to vote against its own interests, creating what Noam Chomsky describes in “Failed States” as a “democracy deficit.” Chomsky quotes John Dewey’s conclusion that “politics is the shadow cast on society by big business,” a circumstance that will continue so long as power resides in “business for private profit...reinforced by command of the press, press agents and other means of publicity and propaganda.”

While on issue-after-issue, Mr. Kucinich represents the interests of a vast majority of the electorate, he can never succeed unless and until the electorate itself adopts the rights and responsibilities of citizenship, actively seeking out the truth as to where each candidate stands on issues of substance--a truth that is available through alternative media and the internet.

Re #71427 by LondonInNY on 5/21 at 7:38 am

If your running I’ll vote for you.

What this country needs most is a Second American Revolution. The American public needs to come to the realization that the two party system has created the illusion of democracy. The false left/right paradigm shields us from the corruption of our leadership. The ruling class in America is raping the American public. Health insurance, retirement and financial security are not things that any congressman ever has to worry about. 

As I stated BUSH/CHENEY are NIXON/AGNEW ON STEROIDS. They are front men for a corrupt element in our government that saw what was possible and just took it to another level. Stolen elections, questionable/curious involvement in 9/11, War without legal justification, manipulation of the Justice Department and the electoral process. We did not resist the consolidation of power in Corporate America, the Media and the Military over the last couple of decades. Hence there is no legitimate major media looking into the most criminal administration in the history of our country. What this administration has done and continues to do is so far beyond Nixon/Agnew and yet the Democrats are silent.  Where are the DEMOCRATS?? Joe Lieberman is a phucking criminal and political whor_ of the highest order, ruled more by AIPAC money than the American Constitution. At the height of Republican Neo-Con corruption, he signs on to their team.  How convenient. The Constitution has become an irrelevant document.  Antitrust laws are a sham. Otherwise, how have we allowed Rupert Murdoch to in essence become Citizen Kane, a man with the most unscrupulous motives, and an unhealthy alliance with Roger Ailes, PNAC (Neo-Conservatives) and other fascists around the globe, to acquire so many media assets. The consolidation of media power has resulted in a shaping of news to suit the aims of the criminal element within our government. Why aren’t more Democrats getting behind Kucinich?

Conservatives and Liberals are not in power in America, only fascists and their complicitors. Conservatives are not activist politico’s who involve themselves in spying, monitoring the American public and enforcing a moral code on the people while they have their hand perpetually in the Treasury. These godless scum use God and religion are used as sword to control the masses. They are not Christians but rather use faith to prey on a fragile democracy and the people who crave leadership and a belief in right and wrong. The 4th Reich has taken hold in America. The Big Lie continues unabated.  Indictment and trial for TREASON, their removal from power and the administration of CAPITAL PUNISHMENT are the only answer. We let Nixon off and now the worst these crooks fear is the potential shame of getting caught and then being “pardoned”.  Why do we worry about whether there is Democracy in Cuba, Venezuela, Iraq, Iran or Russia when those who are in control here do not believe in the power of the people here. May this administration rot in hell!!

“#71305 by Tony Wicher on 5/20 at 2:32 pm
(28 comments total)

“"#71206 by JNagarya on 5/20 at 4:11 am”

““#71097 by Tony Wicher on 5/19 at 7:55 pm
(27 comments total)

““#71058 by JNagarya on 5/19 at 10:00 am”

“In a way I hope Gonzo doesn’t resign or get fired, or impeached: as long as he’s there—neutered—he keeps the issues front-and-center, and continues to damage Bushit, et al.”

“Yeah, but on the other hand, Democrats might insist on confirming only an honest Attorney General who would proceed to investigate the hell out of the Bush Administration. Kind of puts Bush between a rock and a hard place. What do you think?”

He is between a rock and a hard place—except for the third option/escape: violating the law.

That’s why he won’t fire Gonzo, or request he resign.  But we do have to worry that he might attempt an “interim” appointment while Congress is out of town. 

At the same time, I just heard on NPR (WBUR, actually) that there’s talk of Gonzo resigning.  Perhaps that’s an effort to short-circuit the vote of no-confidence, in the belief that would return the process to square one, instead of continuing on to the next step: appointment of a special prosecutor; voting on impeachment; or whatever other options are possible.

“A constant revulsion.”

Yeah, this guy is a a great credit to his race, huh?

The conduct is sufficient to revolt.

“We must impeach even if it can’t be completed before 1/21/2009.  And I have vague memory (I go through a lot of materials, mostly legal, when online) of seeing reference to a statute concerning impeachment which makes exception to the rule that all unfinished business at the end of a Congress “falls to the floor”—that the impeachment would continue with the next Congress.”

“I didn’t know that. It’s good to know there isn’t necessarily a time limit.”

If that’s true; I’m not certain, and my focus was elsewhere, so I didn’t pursue it.  I believe the date the statute (if it’s true) was enacted was 1874.

“I just hope this does not wind up something like Nixon, where first Agnew resigned and Nixon was allowed to appoint his successor, who then proceeded to pardon him. This was praised at the time as “bringing the country together”, but to me it meant that Nixon was allowed to get away with it.”

I’m still pissed about that.  We should have set the obvious example by indiciting and prosecuting.

Almost as bad was the excuse for not prosecuting Agnew: “His family has suffereed enough.” You won’t hear that excuse about a poor person caught violating the law.  Instead, while he does his time, his wife, if he has one, will be smeared as being “a welfare queen”—even if both are white.

“I’ll admit that I’m terrified.  I’ve felt a constant dread, not always subterranean, at times arising to anxiety, since 12/12/2000.  And the brazenness of the law-breaking—publicly, in broad daylight—only increases the sense of dread, and the terror: will they leave willingly? or will they go even further than they already have?”

“But the real horror, for me, did not begin until after 9-11 when they started beating the drums of war to invade Iraq in early 2002. That’s where I saw where it was all heading.”

Also alarming was that it tended to obscure everything that went before, all the way back to the theft of the election.  As if matters weren’t already complicated enough.

“#71206 by JNagarya on 5/20 at 4:11 am”

“#71097 by Tony Wicher on 5/19 at 7:55 pm
(27 comments total)

“#71058 by JNagarya on 5/19 at 10:00 am”

“In a way I hope Gonzo doesn’t resign or get fired, or impeached: as long as he’s there—neutered—he keeps the issues front-and-center, and continues to damage Bushit, et al.”

Yeah, but on the other hand, Democrats might insist on confirming only an honest Attorney General who would proceed to investigate the hell out of the Bush Administration. Kind of puts Bush between a rock and a hard place. What do you think?

“A constant revulsion.”

Yeah, this guy is a a great credit to his race, huh?

“We must impeach even if it can’t be completed before 1/21/2009.  And I have vague memory (I go through a lot of materials, mostly legal, when online) of seeing reference to a statute concerning impeachment which makes exception to the rule that all unfinished business at the end of a Congress “falls to the floor”—that the impeachment would continue with the next Congress.”

I didn’t know that. It’s good to know there isn’t necessarily a time limit. I just hope this does not wind up something like Nixon, where first Agnew resigned and Nixon was allowed to appoint his successor, who then proceeded to pardon him. This was praised at the time as “bringing the country together”, but to me it meant that Nixon was allowed to get away with it. Just think, we could have been the first democracy I can recall to put its president in jail! I’m sure it must have been done before. I can’t think of a better proof that we are, after all, truly a great democracy. 

“I’ll admit that I’m terrified.  I’ve felt a constant dread, not always subterranean, at times arising to anxiety, since 12/12/2000.  And the brazenness of the law-breaking—publicly, in broad daylight—only increases the sense of dread, and the terror: will they leave willingly? or will they go even further than they already have?”

First they impeach Clinton. That so-called impeachment was a partisan subversion of the Constitution. For that they deserve their coming impeachment doubly, in spades, with barbed wire wrapped around it. Then they steal the election
from Al Gore, who ran a weak campaign because he distanced himself from Clinton on account of that ridiculous Lewinsky scandal (a huge mistake; the polls showed the population was ready to pin a medal of honor on Clinton for that blow job). I could not believe that such a moron could be elected president. But the real horror, for me, did not begin until after 9-11 when they started beating the drums of war to invade Iraq in early 2002. That’s where I saw where it was all heading.

“I don’t think I can even get my head around the fact of torture—the most morally depraved of acts one human can impose upon another.  The brazen lying of the country into illegally invading and occupying an essentially defenseless country.  How can it happen that a number of individual sociopaths could somehow come together into a group which magnifies the evil out of all proportion?

And 28 per cent (an inflated number) could actually support and defend all that!?

How does one comprehend it?”

These days, if only 28% of the people don’t know their asses from a hole in the ground, you’re doing pretty well.

I was just listening to Ron Paul today and I liked what I heard. He wants the U.S. to be a democracy instead of an empire. There are such Republicans. What about a Kucinich-Paul bipartisan peace ticket? Just a dream, of course, but a pleasant one.

Ok posters, I may be over reacting but, this may part of Bush’s final drive for power and avoiding impeachment?

I may not understand, but it seems to gvie Bush power over all three (four if you count us) branches of government.

National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive ?NATIONAL SECURITY PRESIDENTIAL DIRECTIVE/NSPD 51 ?HOMELAND SECURITY PRESIDENTIAL DIRECTIVE/HSPD-20

Any congressional scholars out there?

“#70959 by Louise on 5/19 at 12:59 am
(Unregistered commenter)

“Of course Kerry won. The big mystery is why did he cave and concede so quickly?”

He didn’t want to be called “sore loser”.  And you know that would have happened.  Once was enough.  Why give the Republican’ts excuse to do it again, serially?

“Of course Al Gore won, the final numbers prove that. The mistake he made was turning the fight over to Joe Lieberman.”

The mistakes he made were two: Not calling for a recount of the entire state.  And beleiving in fair play.  The latter is, you’ll agree, what we want.  So was that a mistake?  I don’t think so.

“If the Republican National Committee hadn’t been looking for a THOROUGHLY DISHONEST MAN. And a LIAR willing to orchestrate ANY CRIME NECESSARY to assure they gain absolute control of the Congress and the White House and the Supreme Court.”

I was online reading the FL elections laws during the battle.  Baker’s assertions about the law were exactly opposite the actual law.  Perhaps worse: the media would interview Gore’s people, and they would assert the law.  Then they’d interview Baker, and he’d assert te law.  And that was the end of it: it left the viewer to pick whatever side they preferred.  What the media should have done was run the text of the law—the standard—on the screen—or simply read it to the viewer before or after the interviews.  Recall Baker making it sound as if Gore was cheating because he “cherry picked” only a select list of counties for recounts?  In fact, the law stipulates that any candidate can chose any number—or all—for recounts.  Baker lied on the point.  And the media acted as if it was all a toss-up, opinion—as if there wasn’t actually a standard: the law.

“Then go to; http://kucinich.house.gov/SpotlightIssues/documents.htm and read Supporting Documents for H Res 333; A Resolution to bring Impeachment charges against Richard Cheney, as Introduced in the House of Representatives by Representative Dennis Kucinich

“We do have ONE LEADER in Congress who shares our concern. Now how about we throw our support behind him and make it happen!”

The support for impeachment must also be communicated—near constantly—to his colleagues in the House.  And in the Senate.

And that means it must be as consistently communicated to Republicans.  If anyone needs to be overwhelmed with such demands, it’s the Republicans.  They arrogantly and boastfully backed this illegitimate junta.  Now that it’s blowing up in their faces, they need constant reminding that we know what is going on, and that we see it blowing up in their faces.  They want to get reelected?  Then they’d better _EARN_ it.

“#71076 by PatrickHenry on 5/19 at 6:14 pm
(51 comments total)

“JNagarya

“One or two “senior” politicians (i.e. Pelosi) can and have blocked important legislation (HR333) concerning wishes from constituants from states other than their own.”

And have blocked legislation which would have been the opposite: harmful.

There is a thing called “institutional memory” (career lawyers leaving DOJ is a loss of that).  We are lucky to have Ted Kennedy.  Even when he was the lone “liberal” voice,” when everyone else was hunkered down, he continued to speak those principles.

“Same goes with churches, they have to pay for the municipal services which they use and impact.  The pastors, rabbi’s, ministers, priests should have to file personal income tax and fully disclose their earnings as the rest of us do.  The meaning and use of religion has changed since the founding fathers.”

The underlying principle hasn’t changed.  In all but one of the first state constitutions, adopted during 1776-77, and 1780, there are statements of the right of freedom of conscience.  That included not paying taxes to support a church to which you didn’t belong.  Thus no taxation.

Even more: In such as GA and NC, active clergy were prohibited holding public office.  And in GA there was a provision which guaranteed the freedom to preach, but also stipulated that if it were seditious against the state, it could be prosecuted.

The Founders and Framers had seen religious persecution up close, at minimum in the legal histories of their colonies.  They didn’t pull punches about it.

“#71097 by Tony Wicher on 5/19 at 7:55 pm
(27 comments total)

“#71058 by JNagarya on 5/19 at 10:00 am

“We are in sync. Democrats have done a good job on the investigations. This administration is 100 times worse than Nixon, makes Nixon look like George Washington. There are emails all over the place. They will never keep a lid on this.”

In a way I hope Gonzo doesn’t resign or get fired, or impeached: as long as he’s there—neutered—he keeps the issues front-and-center, and continues to damage Bushit, et al.

A constant revulsion.

“Impeachment is coming soon. Dennis Kucinich deserves to be the next president for having led the charge, but the election campaign for 08 is less important than impeaching Bush and Cheney now.”

Absolutely agreed.  No excuse should be allowed to do otherwise—including the, “Well, they’re only going to be there XX months longer.”

“If Bush, Cheney and Rove all allowed to slink away quietly in the night, it will implicate the next administration in their crimes. They need to spend the rest of their lives in jail. Impeachment in the House is not good enough. This must be handled in such a way there will be conviction in the Senate, if there is to be full accountability.”

Absolutely.

In law, silence is assent.  We must impeach, else the egregious violations of nearly everything this country stands for, and the Constitution and laws, will be established as precedent.  I don’t fear that the next president (Bushit isn’t president; the Constitution stipulates that the president shall be _elected_) would abuse those precedents; but in future another would.

We must impeach even if it can’t be completed before 1/21/2009.  And I have vague memory (I go through a lot of materials, mostly legal, when online) of seeing reference to a statute concerning impeachment which makes exception to the rule that all unfinished business at the end of a Congress “falls to the floor”—that the impeachment would continue with the next Congress.

I’ll admit that I’m terrified.  I’ve felt a constant dread, not always subterranean, at times arising to anxiety, since 12/12/2000.  And the brazenness of the law-breaking—publicly, in broad daylight—only increases the sense of dread, and the terror: will they leave willingly? or will they go even further than they already have?

I don’t think I can even get my head around the fact of torture—the most morally depraved of acts one human can impose upon another.  The brazen lying of the country into illegally invading and occupying an essentially defenseless country.  How can it happen that a number of individual sociopaths could somehow come together into a group which magnifies the evil out of all proportion?

Even under the tyranny of the theocracy in such as MA-Bay habeas corpus was a right.  We can’t do better than that?

And 28 per cent (an inflated number) could actually support and defend all that!?

How does one comprehend it?

“#71032 by Pat Williams on 5/19 at 2:40 pm
(Unregistered commenter)

“Just because officials in one state or another remove people from the voting rolls does not necessarily mean the former voters are non-citizens. Many an elderly persons who were born in poverty or native American (Indian) who have no proof they were born in the US. My friend’s mom, a full-blooded Ojibway was born on a reservation in Michigan. She never could get a birth certificate or other proof. The bottom line is that there is very little voter fraud but much vote fraud. Computers cannot be made secure with secret ballots because, as with ATMs, the only way to secure is with identity. Paper ballots are the only way to go along with legally mandated audits, partial recount checks and observations by all parties. Exit polls should be owned by the people and also secured. Contrary to the claims that exit polls are not reliable, well-designed exit polls are eminently relieable and a sound basis for checking vote fraud. The exit polls and other statistical evidence in 2004 indicate that Kerry won by over 4 million votes, much in key swing states and would have won by several million more if not for the minority vote suppression. Despite best efforts and a great turnout in the 2006 mid-terms, exits polls, prior to “adjustment” by MSM owners indicates at least 3 million votes shifted or negated (undervote), about 4% of the vote. We SHOULD have at least ten more Democrats in Congress right now if our votes had been secured.”

None of us can be on top of everything, so it’s exceedingly helpful that others, such as you, are tracking such as the voter/ing issue and keeping us informed.  And that is well stated. 

And compassionate.

“#71073 by PaulMagillSmith on 5/19 at 5:52 pm
(25 comments total)

“#71064 by JNagarya on 5/19 at 10:22 am

“In 1972 I, also, was was about 24 years old and during the passing decades have come to agree with you that patience is the most vital, yet the most difficult of virtues.”

Is it ever difficult!

“Although I might sometimes seem a bit anxious for change (after all it has been a very trying past six years) I also recognize revision of a thoroughly corrupted system of government takes time. Rome wasn’t built in a day, but it got built, right?”

For more years than six.

“Thanks for taking the time to read & respond to particulars in other people’s posts. It might look like we (a number of us anyway) are on different paragraphs, but it looks like we are on the same page. It also seems we are in agreement that we share a civic duty to speak out against the injustice & criminal activities foisted upon us by an administration infested with miscreant neo-Con fascists.”

Last night I was researching volumes of legal history (I “enjoy” colonial law and its eventuation in constitutional law) and saw a quote from I think, Justice Brandeis: “Democracy is responsiblity.”

“I, too, understand what the Democrats are doing, and understand how hard it is to turn a herd of stampeding elephants, especially when they are running scared; and you’d better believe they’re scared at the moment.”

I think they’re all worried, and the Republicans are just about terrified: despite their arrogance, it’s all blowing up in their faces.  When this is over, we may look back and thank Gonzo for being so obviously criminal—not only a liar; criminal to the bone.  That hospital incident is utterly, jaw-droppingly astonishing.  And stomach-churning.

“A lot of work has been & is being done, and much of it most people aren’t even aware of quite yet...and in ONLY four months, as you stated. Imagine where we will be in a year or so.”

I still worry: Will Bush, et al., go willingly?  Or will it be necessary to surround the White House with the military (what military! is there a plan in destroying it?), and send in Federal Marshalls to drag them out kicking-and-screaming?  I mean that.

“By the fall of 1966 I was active against the Viet Nam war, and the scales were tipped heavily in the pro war camp’s favor.”

During the last three weeks of my Junior year—June, 1965—we “had” to read _The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn_.  I read it in three days; it blew me away, and I turned against the war, to which I’d given little thought (it only became a regular spot on the news in May, 1965).  By the turn of Winter, 1965-66, my pacifism had crystalized.  I read nothing but Twain—everything I could get my hands on—for the two years beginning June, 1965, until graduation in June, 1967.  (Extra half-year due to illness.)

“As the public became aware things weren’t quite as the government was trying to ‘spin’ them, public opinion shifted toward a ‘tipping point’ at which time almost everyone jumped on the band wagon. Once the scales shifted against the war they couldn’t be reversed, and the war ended. I see the same thing happening now.”

Yes.  But I’m still on edge waiting for it to penetrate the “mainstream” (if such exists any more) media.  Actually, the media wasn’t all that different then; it took it a long time to stop perpetuating the administration line.

“Patience doesn’t mean being complacent, though, so we have to keep holding their feet to the fire.”

We have no acceptable alternative.

“Keep on pushing, ok?”

Always do.  I think we all feel overwelmed—serial scandals of the worst degree, a new one nearly every day.  There’s a Chinese saying: “May you live in interesting times.” It’s intended as a curse.  Watergate was frightening—and the Saturday Night Massacre was terrifying.  How much longer will the constant undercurrent of Bushit’s terrorism against the world continue?

“#71109 by LondonInNY on 5/19 at 2:33 pm
(3 comments total)

“BUSH/CHENEY=NIXON/AGNEW ON STEROIDS.”

On crystal meth—methadrine.

“Impeachment is not the solution. Indictment for Treason and administration of the DEATH PENALTY is more apropos.”

Impeachment is indictment.  It is done in the House.  The trial on the impeachment is done in the Senate.

“The rise of the NEO-CONS and THE BIG LIE are analogous with the rise of the NAZI’S.”

Agreed. 

“The corruption runs deep and straight to the White House. This is not about partisan politics. The American Neo-con experiment has proved disastrous to freedom, democracy, the rule of law, the US Constitution and individual rights and liberties. It is no longer funny and cannot be dismissed as politics.”

Agreed.

“The Faux News Network is very much an instrumentality of NEO-CON PROPAGANDA created by NEO-CONS, Roger Ailes, Rupert Murdoch and his henchman who are psuedo journalists.”

Exactly.  And Roger Ailes was in the Reagan Administration as his media dude.

Most don’t realize how extreme Reagan was—that he was a member of the John Birch Society ("commies!" everywhere).  They can get a clue from extremist Goldwater, who said of Reagan and his crowd, “I don’t know what these people are, but they aren’t conservatives.  They’re even to the right of _me_!”

I can hear those impeachment drums beating louder. I heard it on Keith Olberman the other night. On Thursday John Stewart asked, “What do these guys have to do, sodomize the Declaration of Independence?”

Re #71054 by JNagarya on 5/19 at 9:46 am
(222 comments total)

As one who was on the streets in the late 60’s and still has much to learn; I have been following your dialogue with the others and find it very informative.  For the most part I agree with you.  As a less than patient human I struggle to give the Dems the benefit of the doubt.  We the people are the only ones who can create a third party, but I don’t believe there are enough of us...yet.

BUSH/CHENEY=NIXON/AGNEW ON STEROIDS. Impeachment is not the solution. Indictment for Treason and administration of the DEATH PENALTY is more apropos. The rise of the NEO-CONS and THE BIG LIE are analogous with the rise of the NAZI’S.

-9/11 Lies
-Corruption of the Electoral Process thwarting the will of the American people in two Presidential elections and perhaps countless other state races
-WMD’s
-Justice Department
-The World Bank

The corruption runs deep and straight to the White House. This is not about partisan politics. The American Neo-con experiment has proved disastrous to freedom, democracy, the rule of law, the US Constitution and individual rights and liberties. It is no longer funny and cannot be dismissed as politics. The Faux News Network is very much an instrumentality of NEO-CON PROPAGANDA created by NEO-CONS, Roger Ailes, Rupert Murdoch and his henchman who are psuedo journalists.

BUSH/CHENEY=NIXON/AGNEW ON STEROIDS. This is not partisan politics. THEY ARE CRIMINALS. The Justice Department Scandal has far reaching implications and illustrates a blatant and total disregard for the Constitution, the rule of law and and an effort to thwart the will of the American people and the electoral process. What they have and continue to do violates every aspect of the principles upon which this country was founded, in a very suBstantial way. IMPEACHMENT? Impeachment is NOT strong enough punishment. Fascist Analogies to the Third Reich are apropos. The Nixon Agnew team were bumbling fools compared to the relentless and intentional disregard for law, democracy and the constitution that this administration has shown. They should be indicted, tried for TREASON and receive CAPITAL PUNISHMENT---them and the ENTIRE CLAN OF PNAC NEO-CON CRIMINALS, if necessary.

#71058 by JNagarya on 5/19 at 10:00 am

We are in sync. Democrats have done a good job on the investigations. This administration is 100 times worse than Nixon, makes Nixon look like George Washington. There are emails all over the place. They will never keep a lid on this. Impeachment is coming soon. Dennis Kucinich deserves to be the next president for having led the charge, but the election campaign for 08 is less important than impeaching Bush and Cheney now. If Bush, Cheney and Rove all allowed to slink away quietly in the night, it will implicate the next administration in their crimes. They need to spend the rest of their lives in jail. Impeachment in the House is not good enough. This must be handled in such a way there will be conviction in the Senate, if there is to be full accountability.

JNagarya

The touchscreen voting box method should produce a quality paper ballot, verifiable with no chad. it could then be placed in “the box” by the voter.  Any dispute then open the box and begin counting.

By advocating term limits I mean for the lobbyists and congressional staffers too.  I by no means want to deprive voters in any state or district the right to send whoever they want to federal office, only in another position where senority starts anew.  One or two “senior” politicians (i.e. Pelosi) can and have blocked important legislation (HR333) concerning wishes from constituants from states other than their own. 

I live outside of Washington DC, and see The myriad of lobbies knowing full well they don’t pay the appropriate taxes to the district but expect the services of the city (police, fire, water, EMS).  The salaries and expense accounts of these snake oil salesmen and women are substantial.

Same goes with churches, they have to pay for the municipal services which they use and impact.  The pastors, rabbi’s, ministers, priests should have to file personal income tax and fully disclose their earnings as the rest of us do.  The meaning and use of religion has changed since the founding fathers.

#71064 by JNagarya on 5/19 at 10:22 am

In 1972 I, also, was was about 24 years old and during the passing decades have come to agree with you that patience is the most vital, yet the most difficult of virtues. Although I might sometimes seem a bit anxious for change (after all it has been a very trying past six years) I also recognize revision of a thoroughly corrupted system of government takes time. Rome wasn’t built in a day, but it got built, right?

Thanks for taking the time to read & respond to particulars in other people’s posts. It might look like we (a number of us anyway) are on different paragraphs, but it looks like we are on the same page. It also seems we are in agreement that we share a civic duty to speak out against the injustice & criminal activities foisted upon us by an administration infested with miscreant neo-Con fascists.

As a regular daily viewer of C-SPAN & C-SPAN2, I sometimes find myself so angry I wish I could reach through the TV screen and just smack one of the representatives and say, “Wake up, stupid, you’re doing wrong and lying about it to me.”

I, too, understand what the Democrats are doing, and understand how hard it is to turn a herd of stampeding elephants, especially when they are running scared; and you’d better believe they’re scared at the moment. A lot of work has been & is being done, and much of it most people aren’t even aware of quite yet...and in ONLY four months, as you stated. Imagine where we will be in a year or so.

Stay positive, keep writing, and speaking out against the current tyrants and we will eventually win the day. Staying focused on the goal of universal justice is essential.

By the fall of 1966 I was active against the Viet Nam war, and the scales were tipped heavily in the pro war camp’s favor. As the public became aware things weren’t quite as the government was trying to ‘spin’ them, public opinion shifted toward a ‘tipping point’ at which time almost everyone jumped on the band wagon. Once the scales shifted against the war they couldn’t be reversed, and the war ended. I see the same thing happening now.

Patience doesn’t mean being complacent, though, so we have to keep holding their feet to the fire. If you do nothing nothing gets done, right? If we all push together we can open a doorway to a better future. Keep on pushing, ok?

I vote for the candidate who best shares my core beliefs and convictions and whose interpretations of government are concurrent with my own, political party notwithstanding.

Vote for the candidate not the party.

“#70663 by PatrickHenry on 5/17 at 4:13 pm
(49 comments total)

“Those electronic voting machines which lack the verifiable paper trail necessary to allow a recount is where “they” got us.”

The addition of a “paper trail” as has been proposed by those least informed are nonsense: a computer can do more than one calculation at a time.  Sure: the printout has on it that which is on the screen of the machine.  But is that the only calculation going on?

“Term limits and public funded campaigns with PBS access for all candidates 24/7.”

Why were the Founders opposed to term limits?  Might it be worth looking at all the issues involved, instead of proposing a bandaid to gag the voter against voting for whomever s/he pleases?

“. . . tax the hell out of . . . the megalithic churches too.”

And by that means give them the right to interfere in politics.

Separation of church and state is to be absolute: you don’t pay taxes, you don’t get to lobby, or otherwise meddle in politics; in exchange for which, gov’t doesn’t interfere in your “religion”.

And in time, the taxes from one “religion” would be used to support “religions” not supported by those who paid the taxes in the first instance.

“#70624 by Scott on 5/17 at 7:24 pm
(22 comments total)

“All I can say is thank God Paris Hilton was released early.”

She was!?  Damn!  I missed the news of that because of the stupid 24/7 hearings about Gonzales lying, and breaking the law, or whatever he did.

It’s frustrating.  I can’t wait until they return to regular programming.  I need a break from all this nonsense.  I’ve about watched all my Arnie Schwartzeneger DVDs to death!

“#70816 by Leefeller on 5/18 at 2:22 pm
(37 comments total)

#70756 by JNagarya, Your blind allegiance to the potential efficiency of the Democrats seems slightly naive.  From your post I believe you feel the Democrats are doing something exciting, on the other hand I expect business as usual, I hope you prove me wrong.”

My “allegiance” is to the rule of law—“A system of laws, and not of men”—John Adams.  As well, I was circa 23-24 during Watergate, and even then knew it takes patience, and time, to reestablish the rule of law by means of due process.  At that time I was a regular at a particular bar.  At the beginning of that year—it was June, 1972, and I’d just seen the first report on the break-in—everyone in the bar except myself was pro-Nixon.  A solid year later, everyone in that bar was solid for impeachment.  Time, patience, persuasion. 

“My feeling about the Democrats, which is the same for the Republicans, they are the best government money can buy.”

The usual fashionable cynicism by the self-righteous who would, given the same opportunity, would be part of the “best government money can buy”.  Reminds me of the cliques during the 1960s who stood around jabbering about how others weren’t as aware/hip as they. 

“Between the two parties, they only have three candidates between them that make some sense not having the money or mass media support they are all on the bottom.”

What do you propse to do about that?  Vote for a third party candidate who hasn’t a chance of being elected?

“Waiting for the next revelation from the Democrats tries my patience, because people are being slaughtered in Iraq and I believe Bush should be impeached.”

I agree that Bush, et al., should be impeached—and removed.  In fact, I’ve been of that view since 12/12/2000, and haven’t been silent about it.

“Dennis Kuckinich is the only one that has tried to do something.”

He so far has three additional sponsors signed on.  Howver, in neither house do the Democrats have sufficient votes, at this point, to impeach.  Time patience, persuasion.  And in place of bashing the Democrats, communicated pressure for impeachment.

We the people are the ultimate check on gov’t.  Impeachment should not originate in Congress—we saw the abuse of power result from that against Clinton.  It must begin with We the people, else it be seen as nothing more than partisan, or “political stunt,” and the demand for that must be communicated to Congress.  Instead of doing that, those who don’t participate anyway bash the Democrats for not doing the impossible—as excuse to continue to not participate.  And then they throw their vote away—if they vote—on pie-in-the-sky and undermine the candidacy of those who have a chance of actually winning.

“Thanks for the feed back.”

Yer welcome.

“#70998 by Ron Ranft on 5/18 at 11:24 pm
(Unregistered commenter)

“I voted for Ralph Nader in 2000. And I would do so again. Yes, there is that myth that Nader caused Gore to loose.”

In exchange for being nominated by the Greens, Nader promised he wouldn’t campaign in swing states.  He broke that promise and campaigned in swing states, including FL. 

“No, Gore and the Supreme Court caused Gore to loose.”

Those are no more the facts than your failure to know the facts about Nader’s promise, and his breaking of it.  The first person to run to court in FL was Bush.  The first person to run to Federal district court was Bush.

Gore is not named Scalia.  It was Scalia who unprecedentedly intervened in the election to stop the counting of votes.

I was not Gore who took his frivolous “case’ to the _wrong_ branch of gov’t.  The Constitution gives exclusive authority to _CONGRESS_ to resolve election disputes such as that in 2000; the _UNELECTED_ SC has no legitimate role in the issue. 

It was the SC—not Gore—that subverted the Constitution in order to unconstitutionaly appoint Bush.

“So what does that have to do with anything? The Democrats won big in the last elections and promised to do something about this administration. What have they done?”

How long have they been in control?  Four months?  They’ve totally discredited Gonzales, and numerous others have resigned.  And as long as he is where he is, he keeps the issue alive, and continues to damage Bush, et al.

“They’ve held hearings. Whoopdeedo! As this article points out, it is as clear . . . what all the firings are about but what has happened as a result of those hearings? There is going to be a call for a no confidence resolution which means jack!”

Congress is pursuing the issues as required by law.  Due process.  The no-confidence vote does several things: takes a “sense of the Senate” as to how many might be for impeachment).  And it puts Republicans on the spot—an election is coming up—are they for Gonzales?—an election is coming up—or are they for Gonazles resigning?—there’s an election coming up.

Congress is farther along in the process than political neophytes like you realize.  They are already at “show cause”.

“We’ve had none binding resolutions and half-assed bills calling for timetables, withdrawals, with all kinds of caveats, none of them with any teeth in them.”

Regardless whether they have teeth, if Bush won’t sign them, they won’t be the law, therefore won’t have any effect.  The responsibility is on Bush.

“The Democrats either are liars about their stated goals or they are dragging this all out so they can use it to try and gain more power.”

The Democrats (nor Gore) didn’t veto.  The responsibility is on Bush.

“That makes them as despicable as the Republicans. They are willing to trade American and Iraqi lives for more votes and more power.”

If Bush won’t sign a bill with teeth, then that bill doesn’t become law, and therefore has no effect.  The responsibility is on Bush.

“Never forget that they were complicit in the formation of this war. Except for a few, they all have blood on their hands.”

They were lied to, as were the rest of us.

“Until they repeal the Military Commission Act, impeach the criminals in the White House, the Democrats will never be a whit better than the Republicans no matter how much smoke and how many mirrors they wave about!”

Can’t impeach without sufficient votes.  That means they have to gain support of sufficient Republicans to even attempt it.  The only way to do that is the way they are doing it: investigation, and gathering and presenting hard evidence toward that end, and holding hearings which builds the pressure. 

It would take a minimum of 67 votes to impeach.  How many Democrats are there in the Senate?  Much fewer than 67.

Reply to #70756 by JNagarya on 5/17 at 11:34 pm

I agree with you. The Democrats are serious, even if they are trying to keep their asses covered as usual. Kucinich is dead serious about impeachment. It is a matter of letting investigations get to a certain point; then there will be a special prosecutor and it will be like Watergate. Republicans will throw in the towel at some point. Events are moving rapidly.

Impeach the bastards. It’s past time for a special prosecutor.

Ernest Canning -

While I agree that the 2000 “selection” involved a judicial coup, I don’t think the word “legal” is appropriate.  What the neocons pulled off was decidedly illegal.

I agree 1,000%. That’s why I put “legal” and not
legal.