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 A World Where Lies Are TruePosted on Mar 26, 2007
By Chris Hedges “Before they seize power and establish a world according to their doctrines, totalitarian movements conjure up a lying world of consistency which is more adequate to the needs of the human mind than reality itself; in which, through sheer imagination, uprooted masses can feel at home and are spared the never-ending shocks which real life and real experiences deal to human beings and their expectations. The force possessed by totalitarian propaganda—before the movements have the power to drop iron curtains to prevent anyone’s disturbing, by the slightest reality, the gruesome quiet of an entirely imaginary world—lies in its ability to shut the masses off from the real world.” —Hannah Arendt, “The Origins of Totalitarianism” In the middle of the lobby of the 50,000-square-foot Creation Museum in Petersburg, Ky., a 20-foot waterfall tumbles. Two life-size figures of children with long black hair and in buckskin clothes play in the stream a few feet from two towering Tyrannosaurus Rex models that can move and roar. The museum, which cost $25 million to build and has a sea of black asphalt parking lots for school buses, has a scale model of Noah’s ark that shows how Noah solved the problem of fitting dinosaurs into the three levels of the vessel—he loaded only baby dinosaurs. And on the wooden model, infant dinosaurs cavort with horses, giraffes, hippopotamuses, penguins and bears. There is an elaborate display of the Garden of Eden, where Adam and Eve, naked but strategically positioned so as not to display breasts or genitals, swim in a river as giant dinosaurs and lizards roam the banks. Before Adam and Eve were expelled from paradise, museum visitors are told, all of the dinosaurs were peaceable plant-eaters. The evidence is found in Genesis 1:30, where God gives “green herb” to every creature to eat. There were no predators. T-Rex had such big teeth, the museum explains, so it could open coconuts. Only after Adam and Eve sinned and were cast out of paradise did the dinosaurs start to eat flesh. And Adam’s sin is a key component of the belief system, for in the eyes of many creationists, in order for Jesus’ death to be meaningful it had to atone for Adam’s first sin. The museum has a theater equipped with seats that shake and gadgets that spray mist at the audience as the story of God’s six-day creation of the world unfolds on the screen and the sound system rocks the auditorium. There are 30-foot-high walls that represent the cliffs of the Grand Canyon, floors that resemble rocks embedded with fossils, and rooms where a “Christian” paleontologist counters the claims of an “evolutionist” paleontologist. It has the appearance of a real science museum, complete with a planetarium, a gift shop and plaques on the wall with quotes from creationist “scientists” who have the title doctor conspicuously before their names. It has charts, timelines and graphs with facts and figures. It is meant to be interactive, to create, like Universal Studios, a contrived reality with an array of costly animatronic men and women as well as moving dinosaurs. The danger of creationism is that, like the pseudo-science of Nazi eugenics, it allows facts to be accepted or discarded according to the dictates of a preordained ideology. Creationism removes the follower from the rational, reality-based world. Signs, miracles and wonders occur not only in the daily life of Christians but in history, science, medicine and logic. The belief system becomes the basis to understand the world. Random facts and data are collected and made to fit into this belief system or discarded. When facts are treated as if they were opinions, when there is no universal standard to determine truth, in law, in science, in scholarship, or in the reporting of the events of the day, the world becomes a place where people can believe what they want to believe, where there is no possibility of reaching any conclusion not predetermined by those who interpret the official, divinely inspired text. This is the goal of creationists. Other creationist museums are going up in Arkansas, Texas, California, Tennessee and Florida. Museums are part of a massive push to teach creationism in schools, part of a vast Christian publishing and filmmaking industry that seeks to rewrite the past and make it conform to the Bible. The front lines of the culture wars are the classrooms. The battle is one we are slowly losing. Twenty states are considering changing the way evolution is taught in order to include creationism or intelligent design.1 Only 13 percent of Americans in a 2004 Gallup poll, when asked for their views on human origins, said life arose from the strictly natural process of evolution. More than 38 percent said they believed God guided evolution, and 45 percent said the Genesis account of creation was a true story.2 Courses on intelligent design have been taught at Minnesota, Georgia, New Mexico and Iowa State universities, along with Wake Forest and Carnegie Mellon*, not to mention Christian universities that teach all science through the prism of the Bible. The museum is an illustration of the movement’s marriage of primitive and intolerant beliefs with the modern tools of technology, mass communication, sophisticated fundraising and political organization. Totalitarian systems usually start as propagandistic movements that ostensibly teach people to “believe what they want.” This is a ruse. This primacy of personal opinion, regardless of facts, destabilizes and destroys the primacy of all facts. This process leads inevitably to the big lie. Facts are useful only if they bolster the message. The use of mass-marketing techniques to persuade and convince, rather than brainwash, has led tens of millions of followers to accept the toxic totalitarian line by tricking them into believing it’s their own. Ironically, at the outset the movement seemingly encourages people to think “independently” or “courageously.” At first all have, in the totalitarian belief system, a right to an opinion, or, in short, a right to believe anything. Soon, under the iron control of an empowered totalitarian movement, facts become worthless, kept or discarded according to an ideological litmus test. And once these movements achieve power, facts are ruthlessly manipulated or kept hidden to support the lie. Creationism is not about offering an alternative. Its goal is the destruction of the core values of the open society—the ability to think for oneself, to draw independent conclusions, to express dissent when judgment and common sense tell you something is wrong, to be self-critical, to challenge authority, to advocate for change and to accept that there are other views, different ways of being, that are morally and socially acceptable. We are beginning to see the growing intolerance that comes with the empowerment of these ideologues. There is a bill in the Texas Legislature to strip all mention of evolution from Texas school textbooks and institute mandatory Bible classes for all students. This is just the start. And yet, coming from the modern age, these Christo-fascists cannot discount science. They employ jargon, methods and data that appear to be science, to make an argument for creationism. They have created parallel research and scholarly institutions. They pump out articles in self-published journals to provide “evidence” that homosexuals can be cured, that global warming is a myth, that abortion can cause breast cancer, that something they call “post-abortion syndrome” leads to deep depression and suicide and that abstinence-only education is an effective form of birth control. This pseudo-science has seeped into the public debate. It is disseminated by nervous and timid media anxious to give both sides in every argument. Those who have contempt for facts and truth, for honest research and inquiry, are given the same platform by the press as those who deal in a world of reality, fact and rationality. The movement desperately needs the imprint of science to legitimize itself. It achieves this imprint by discrediting real science and claiming creationist science as true science. All attempts to argue the creationists out of their mythical belief, to persuade them with logic, evidence, scientific inquiry and fact, will fail. They have created a “fundamentalist science.” They know they cannot return to the pre-Darwinian innocence that let them believe the Bible alone was enough. They need, in the midst of their flight from reality, to reassure their followers that science, science not contaminated by secular humanists and nonbelievers, is on their side. In this they are a distinctly modern movement. They seek the imprint of science and scholarship to legitimize myth. This is a characteristic they share with all modern totalitarian movements, which co-opt the disciplines of law, science, medicine and scholarship to give a modern veneer to their primitive and superstitious belief systems, systems that allow the rulers to dictate reality and truth. The “paraprofessional” organizations formed by the Christian right, organizations of teachers, journalists, doctors, lawyers and scientists, mimic the activities of real professional groups. They seek to challenge the legitimacy and the power of the traditional organizations. The duplication of the structures and methods employed by the non-totalitarian world, the use of pseudo-science to dress up fantasy, is slowly undermining our legitimate scientific and educational institutions. It is destroying the foundations of our open society. It is ushering us into a world where lies are true. * Correction: A representative of Carnegie Mellon University states “Carnegie Mellon University does not teach a course on intelligent design. The contemporary issue of intelligent design is sometimes raised in discourse in courses such as Christianity and Science: A Multidisciplinary Approach. This fulfills an elective in the religious studies minor.” 1 Scott LaFee, “Local scientists, doctors and professors talk about ‘intelligent design,’ ” The San Diego Union-Tribune, F-1, June 8, 2005. 2 Frank Newport, “Third of Americans Say Evidence Has Supported Darwin’s Evolution Theory,” The Gallup Poll, Nov. 19, 2004, http://poll.gallup.com/content/default.aspx?ci=14107&pg=1. Previous item: Kucinich Blasts Democrats Next item: Outsourcing War Protest in an Imperial World Elsewhere: . Comments: 289 Published. Add Yours?Are you a Truthdig member yet? Login now, or register with Truthdig. |
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By Sue, May 8 at 3:10 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
RE:mitochondria, Jim H.
Greetings to both of you:
Reply to this | Report thisThank you Mitochondria for the compliment that I sound young. My life was renewed several years ago and I began a fresh walk with Christ. I am 51 years old and assist 10 of thousands of missionaries in the ministry I am working in. We are in bringing the “truth” not theory to the hearts of the hurting, sick, and lost people throughout the world. God has blessed us in many ways and has blessed our missions with thousands upon thousands of miracles you will never see on the evening news (you see this world has a hard time believing you know). Jim H. you are using words from a Catholic book of some sort. I am not of this religion and don’t plan on ever being connected with this practice/false teaching. Pure and simple I am a follower of Christ - Jesus Freak or whatever you might think to call me that may explain whom I walk with. The Word of God pulled me to Christ then the work began. I risk who I am every day to follow him. I live by this Word and plan on sharing love with others so that they may understand they are not alone in this world - but loved by the Son of God. It sounds like you think Jesus was a liar - that is okay because you know no more and have not been called to him at this time. However, if you died tonight where will you be and do you have peace about that. God is not a theory. An Indian standing on a mountain by himself hundreds of years ago can figure this out alone. It is in us to know truth. However, man is unreliable, tends to lie, and is totally selfish. These are traits that occur from sin. God is none of these which makes Him the perfect source of truth. God is holy and therefore cannot lie. Studying things that the world has conjured up is a waste of time in a life that is full and surrounded by a mission. Contentment only comes when you know who you are and why you are assigned to a specific mission in this life. I have my mission - I love Jesus - I hope one day you have the same peace.
By Jim H., May 5 at 3:34 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
------------------------------AN ENSLAVING FORCE
Reply to this | Report thisFew people realize the extent of the reach, influence and overwhelming power of religion! Nor do many people have any idea as to the enormity of the Vatican’s financial resources! Very likely, the Vatican is the wealthiest entity by a factor of 100 that the world has ever seen. And its tax-free status, weekly and “willed” donations of millions, when added to income from all its many worldwide investments, positions those who control that fabulous bottomless pool of wealth as the world’s most influential lobbyist or purchaser! This may be one of the reasons the Pledge of Allegiance was plagiarized and altered from “one nation indivisible” to the bigoted “one nation (divided) under God.” And why 100 senators disgraced our country and themselves by reciting the religious pledge on the steps of the senate and before television beamed to the entire world! The time has come to discredit the outrageous assertions by the Ponzi-racketeering charlatans who promote the plague-like mind destroying disease religion that survives by warping the minds of innocent children and fools, robbing them of their candy and toy money, and enslaving them to a life as shills who help perpetuate the criminal religion schemes. “Secular humanists,” “non-believers” and other sane and rational people know that no proof survives the fairytales of a magician named Jesus or his magic miracles, nor is there any proof whatsoever that there is or ever was a supreme creator God! Yet this and other lies are used to perpetuate their rotten scheme religion. People who live in the “real” world refuse to accept silly lies, fairy tales and farce as fact, whether it be about “Santa Claus” “The Tooth Fairy,” “Donald Duck,” a “Jesus” or a “Creator God.” Nor should they be lumped with or considered analogous with a gang of thieving, lying, mind-warping pedophiles who use a how-to manual of pornography, pillorying, stoning to death and other forms of outright bigotry, for their weekly stimulus to more proselytizing. The senators who said that fallacious rendition of our once great Pledge of Allegiance shall be remembered as the promoters of a criminal enterprise and the abettors or cohorts of a bunch of thieving slavers who invade every phase of society with their lying assertions that “our country was founded as a Christian nation.
Their plagiarism of our once great Pledge of Allegiance, their repeated attempts to force their “Godism” on all schoolchildren, and their ever increasing use of all forms of media and gimmicks to mesmerize, indoctrinate and bludgeon American people with their outrageous, endless efforts to dominate us all with a “Theocratic” form of government renders them heinous felonious criminals!
And the likes of George W. Bush and his ilk, by giving millions of dollars to faith-based groups, is bidding them “Godspeed!”
By mitochondria, May 5 at 6:33 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
First of all we DO know how apes came about but this is not the forum to teach , however I think you should undertake a study of your own. You will be enlightened I assure you. I have never questioned whether or not Christ roamed the earth for 33 years . That is not a concern of mine . I am concerned with what was taught though , for instance , he being the son of god and all of the miracles . He and the apostles were preaching to desperate people and tricking them would have been incredibly easy.There primary need was food and shelter. Very few were educated . Christ on the other hand was very intelligent , he and many of the characters in the bible were with the Essenes for some time studying middle eastern religion (Hindu,etc .) and much of the teaching of Christ bears a striking resemblance to the teaching of Hinduism . The bible is hear say and if you feel a need to believe every word then there would be no use trying to persuade you of anything but I will say that you need to study biology in its current form so that you can master the theory of evolution . Then if you still want to challenge you won’t reflect the same ignorance and embarrass yourself . I realize many young Christian people aren’t allowed to study evolution but you need to ask yourself why and embark on a 6 month study of your own . Start with Darwin’s writings and work forward to modern day biology and the study of molecules of the cell. If by then you still have doubts you will have at least given yourself a firm background from which to argue your points . You seem intelligent but you sound young . I think you need to give every credible subject the benefit of the doubt until you understand ideas that are opposing to you.
Reply to this | Report thisBy Dave, May 4 at 6:09 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
To All (mito, Jim and Frank)
mitochondria. microevolution YES. macroevolution or “supraspecific evolution” NO.
Jim H. What did the ape evolve from and where is your physical evidence. Where is the physical evidence of any of it.
Frank. OK no mention of God by scientist but I have heard and seen in writing the use of designer, if you have not heard or seen this I would have to question how much you read, They just can not bring themselves to use his real name.
Reply to this | Report thisBy Sue, May 4 at 4:06 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
RE: Jesus
The question isn’t if Jesus was here - even the false teachings of Mormons - Jehovah Witnesses - Muslims know of His existence, it’s been here for over 2000 years. That is not the question at all - the question is who do you believe Jesus is? A liar? An insane man? Or the Son of God (who He said He is)? I believe He is God and will return as He said He would. Just like you believe you came from a monkey? By the way, in your belief - who made the monkey? I would like to know because of the grand designer details in his eyes, nose, lungs, teeth, and every other part of his being ;how they all work together to form such an animal. Also why is 13% of the human population RH Negative (monkeys have the RH factor)? Please understand that renewing cells and aging bodies are a sign of life and creation to a believer - the thought that we came from an accident is foolishness to us. So “Who do you think Jesus is”? You really must decide. Using words like fairytale reflects your lack of overall knowledge of evidence available. I suggest you do more research and then respond back to me with your thoughts about Jesus instead of denying His existence. Even evolution scientists are laughing at your crazy statements.
Reply to this | Hide 3 replies | Report thisBy mitochondria, May 4 at 7:12 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Re: RE: Jesus
occasionally when I address a person as young as you on this board I need to be careful not to offend . Obviously , you are very intelligent, but you need to continue to study so that you can begin to understand the topics we are discussing . Nothing in the subject matter of evolution suggests we come from a monkey .(you need to read about the subject and tell your folks you are trying to understand ) That is a religionists description that was designed to get followers of Christ to steer clear of the true understanding for it may undermine your belief in a ghost who may or may not have claimed he was the son of a ghost who called himself god . Scientists are pretty much in agreement that the events in the Genesis chapter most likely never occurred and that it’s allegorical. Even the pope agrees with that assessment . If that is the case then all that is written in the bible is merely hear say (my opinion)and credibility has certainly been lost in the interim . Believers need to study the Theory of Evolution themselves . If you read about the topic and sincerely make an effort to understand it should take you about a year @ 1to2 hours a day. I have read the bible and quite frankly I don’t agree with much of it . There are some nice little fictional stories there but not much else
Reply to this | Report thisBy Ernest Canning, May 4 at 6:24 am #
(1614 comments total)
Re: RE: Jesus
Belief does not equate to knowledge. The mere fact that you chose to “believe” that there is a God or that the man Jesus was God (as opposed to a first century Ghandi) cannot be equated to scientific evidence that there is (a) a God or (b) that Jesus was either the son of that God or God Himself.
Reply to this | Hide 1 reply | Report thisBy Sue, May 4 at 9:07 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
God is knowledge
I believe… because I have been chosen to… by His revealing of truth through the Word (taken from the manuscripts and within them is evidence that demands a verdict).. and from the personal healing I have experienced in my life since I was 9 (now 51).Many miracles, many stories, much total peace! No fear of man, death or financial ruin. Enjoying the full life and friends who can testify to similar happenings. Knowledge does not come from man.......man is ignorant and has a pea sized mentality - our God teaches us that any knowledge we receive most certainly comes from Him alone. As I watch the world fret over the price of gas, the housing market, the war Iraq and famine throughout the world, it makes me smile because I know that “not a hair on my head can be touched unless God says so”. Peace through Christ. Simple gift from God - the owner of knowledge itself.
Report thisBy Jim H. 4/26/2008, April 26 at 1:08 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Re: Sue, April 25
Sue: Wise up!
Reply to this | Report thisThere NEVER, NEVER, NEVER WAS ANYONE “JESUS”! OR “GOD’!
They are FAIRYTALE CHARACTERS used to screw-up the minds, and bodies of innocent children and naive fools LIKE YOU so the charlatans, who pretend they are “Agents of God” can steal money from you, and convert you into a slaving shill, and cohort proselytiser, to entice more of your kind of imberciles into their web of ever broadening ‘Ponzi-like’ criminal scheme!
By JIM H. 4/26/2008, April 26 at 12:54 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Re: andrew, April 19
This poor specimen of living creatures has the audacity to presume, and assert ‘pedantically’, comprehension of things far beyond his juvenile mentality! ROTE teaching has not afforded him, nor, has his ‘keepers’ added to the mesmerizing indoctrination he has been succored upon, any means by which he could possibly discern fact from fiction, or fiction from truth!
Reply to this | Report thisFirst, idiot, everything known to man, and every sound or utterance used to convey anything at all, has derived from LIVING beings, not FAIRYTALE CHARACTERS. The words we use are conglomerations of sounds that have evolved over time and have been accepted as meaning certain things.
Anything not PROVABLE FACT, IS EITHER A FAIRYTALE, OR A LIE!
Unproven conjectures, such as those proffered by LYING CON MEN, or CHARLATAN “RELIGIOUS” THIEVES, are absurd, audacious devices used to entrap innocent children, and naive simpletons LIKE YOU into a life of slavery as a shill, and a proselytizing cohort, in their efforts to control, and dominate the entire World with a Theocratic form of Government. And, you, with your asinine assertions are an example of the disastrous results!
Although books may contain information relating to knowledge, the knowledge contained therein does not ‘derive’ from a book! Books are means of conveying information. But, the information in a book is not necessarily FACT!
Some idiots LIKE YOU, base their whole outlook, and ‘way of life’ on some things contained in a book that has no relation to reality or fact, and merely amounts to conjecture or, are actually FAIRYTALES.
You are a disgraceful example of what happens to those who suffer ‘mind-warping’ when too young to fight it, or at a later age when the sponge-like filling of the head is still too soft to have matured!
By mitochondria, April 26 at 5:38 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
God and Christ are images you’ve conjured in your mind and you hope above all else that your particular imagination supercedes all that others believe in today. Supernaturalism is a belief in ghosts and spirits that always reward us “tomorrow” if we endure the hardships of today. It is a soothing invisible ointment that we apply to keep us safe in an unstable world, but it’s all make believe . If it works for you though and it gives you comfort then perhaps you should continue to believe but realistically it’s just very impractical,good luck to you
Reply to this | Report thisBy mitochondria, April 26 at 5:25 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
You need to adopt a better understanding of just what evolution means . Evolution was “not” invented . Evolution has always been!!! Your body is in the process of evolution right this very minute . Cells are dying and cells are being born not to mention the cells that are in the middle of the lives . You have a very cynical view of evolution and you need to read to understand it better . Then if you want to debate at least you will understand the basics .Don’t let your belief get in the way of truth
Reply to this | Report thisBy Sue, April 25 at 4:51 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
The truth
All of mans opinions are nothing but that.....hot air and noise. Truth is about deep understanding all the way to the soul of oneself. It is not about what someone told you but what God has told you. A relationship with Christ is not a religion. It is a relationship with God Himself. Unless you have walked with Jesus (God who came here as man) and submitted your life to Him you have know idea of who He is. Civilizations can be blessed by God and they can be cursed by God. But the man who fears the Lord is always safe. Peace to all of you and may you learn of the love of Christ before the destruction of this world. It is sooner than you think.
Reply to this | Report thisBy andrew, April 19 at 1:17 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
WOW
I have to start by saying that I am very shocked by the comments in this “column”. Chris, you are doing exactly what you say that this “cult” is supposedly doing. That is, being intolerant. I hardly think that a religion that is thousands of years old is a “movement”. If you remember correctly, evolution was only invented in the 1700’s. Christianity does drive its followers to explore all answeres and to question and validate what the Bible says. You are a hypocryt and a liar sir. Just because you believe in evolution, doesnt mean that everyone who doesnt is stupid.
Reply to this | Report thisBy Jim H., March 17 at 6:42 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
-------AN ENSLAVING FORCE (FOR IMBERCILES)
Reply to this | Report thisFew people realize the extent of the reach, influence and overwhelming power of religion. Nor do many people have any idea as to the enormity of the Vatican’s financial resources! Very likely, the Vatican is the wealthiest entity by a factor of 100 that the world has ever seen. And its tax-free status, weekly and “willed” donations of millions, when added to income from all its many secretive worldwide investments, positions those who control that fabulous bottomless pool of wealth as the world’s most influential lobbyist or purchaser! This may be one of the reasons the Pledge of Allegiance was plagiarized and altered from “one nation indivisible” to the bigoted “one nation (divided) under God.” And why 100 senators disgraced our country and themselves by reciting the religious pledge on the steps of the senate and before television beamed to the entire world! The time has come to discredit the outrageous assertions by the Ponzi-racketeering charlatans who promote the plague-like disease religion that survives by warping the minds of innocent children and fools, robbing them of their candy and toy money, and enslaving them to a life as shills who help perpetuate the criminal religion schemes. “Secular humanists,” “non-believers” and other sane and rational people know that no proof survives the fairytales of a magician named Jesus or his magic miracles, nor is there any proof whatsoever that there is or ever was a supreme creator God. Yet this and other lies are used to perpetuate their rotten scheme religion. People who live in the “real” world refuse to accept silly lies, fairy tales and farce as fact, whether it be about “Santa Claus” “The Tooth Fairy,” “Donald Duck,” a “Jesus” or a “Creator God.” Nor should they be lumped with or considered analogous with a gang of thieving, lying, mind-warping pedophiles who use a how-to manual of pornography, pillorying, stoning to death and other forms of outright bigotry for their weekly stimulus to more proselytizing. The senators who said that fallacious rendition of our once great Pledge of Allegiance shall be remembered as the promoters of a criminal enterprise and the abettors or cohorts of a bunch of thieving slavers who invade every phase of society with their lying assertions that “our country was founded as a Christian nation. With their plagiarism of our once great Pledge of Allegiance, their repeated attempts to force their “Godism” on all schoolchildren and their ever increasing use of all forms of media and gimmicks to mesmerize, indoctrinate and bludgeon the American people with their outrageous, endless efforts to dominate us all with a theocratic form of government renders them criminals!
And the likes of George W. Bush and his ilk, by giving millions of dollars to faith-based groups, is bidding them “Godspeed!” Jim H.
By frank, March 17 at 5:59 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
imagination magnified( just insert the card )
One of the toughest things for me to wrap my mind around is what the fanatical fundies envision from a stowaway god. They babble on about a god that “exists” without an ounce of proof only in there sometimes boisterous expressions .One thing to remember is that all cults, and there are no exceptions, wrap you in an umbrella that forbids you from seeking verification outside of the scope of worship you aspire too. That is why it’s so difficult to realize you are captivated by that entity . The god that you “imagine” is genuine( to you) and you are convinced that he’s real because he helped you get out of that ditch on thanksgiving day 1999 after you offered a prayer as a last resort . You stroked his ego and he stroked yours . Sort of like a give and take situation that allows you to justify what you believe in one neat little package of “ I told ya so” wisdom passed down perpetually by grandma and gr.grandma etc. Well anyway you get the picture . Real science cares less about the concept of god . No scientist that I know has ever ever mentioned a god in the course of his/her work. It is the fundies that feel threatened because of what science has disovered in the past 50 or so years . In the past religion had control . They were able to burn people at the stake when they dodged doctrine but today they are not permitted to behave that way in civilized society. Let’s hope it stays that way and religion remains religion and science , science..
Reply to this | Report thisBy Mark Van Horn, September 3, 2007 at 8:31 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Creationism, Intelligent Creationsim, Evolution, no matter how things got to be here the way they are now, that is the way God whatever our personal concepts of God might be. If that is the way it is can we not say that is the way God meant it to be?
Reply to this | Hide 1 reply | Report thisBy Austin, March 16 at 8:05 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Re: Answer
Hi, it is probbablly strange that i am commenting on this because you left this comment over a year ago… well anyways to answer your question: It is clearly stated throughout the Bible and in the book of Genesis how God intended for us to be. I says That we were supposed to live perfect like him and have a perfect and pure loving relationship with him. We actually were created to be with him in the Garden Of Eden and were supposed to live with Him forever. But God gave us a choice. He gave us the decision of whether or not to love him. Because forcing someone to love you is not true love. True love only comes through the choice of loving. Anyways back on the topic of giving us a choice: He gave us a choice whether or not to love him by place the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the Garden. He said not to Eat from this tree and that was his one law. But unfortunately Satan tempted us to eat the fruit. So we did and we were cast out of the gardedn of Eden. We were cast out because of ONE sin, the eating of a piece of fruit. ANd it says in Romans that through one mans sin came death. And it also mentions in the Bible several times that we are in a Post-Fallen world and because of sin we become less and les perfect and through our choices have been made this way. But I want to finish this message with a promise that God made to us. He said after Adam sinned that He would fix it. He would fix the broken relationship so we could be made perfect again and live with HIm forever in heaven. So he sent his only Son, Jesus Christ, down. Jesus lived a perfect life and He died on the Cross. And when he died on the cross, He died for ever sin that has been committed or will be. He died thinking personally of both your sins and of My sins. God sent all his wrath down at that momment and Jesus interceded and took the punishment for OUR mistakes so that we can be covered by the blood of Jesus and be made perfect again so that we can be with Him forever. And he says that all you have to do is accept it and you will be saved. I am sorry i made this so long but a long story short, God created us perfect, we sinned and messed it up and now we are in a post Fall and imperfect world, BUT GOD has fixed it so that when we die we can be with him forever. Thank you , Austin
Reply to this | Report thisBy Jim H., May 2, 2007 at 6:35 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Real? McCoy;
Why not: “Jack and the Beanstalk”, “Little Orphan Annie” “Donald Duck”, “Flash Gordon” “Buck Rogers” “The Green Hornet” and “Supermouse” along with those other ‘fairytales’?
THERE NEVER!, NEVER!, WAS A JESUS! YOU ARE PROMOTING CRIME! Wake up! Stop promoting that Ponzi-like racketeering scheme that coerces children and fools into performing atrocious sex acts!
Reply to this | Hide 1 reply | Report thisTHE MAKE-BELIEVE JESUS!
After the recent discovery of Essene documents at Kimberth Qumran (Palestine) it has been proven that Jesus was the result of an artificial construction operated by falsifiers in the second century.
And: Former Priest, Luigi Cascioli says “Jesus never existed” in his book, ‘The Fable of Christ’
He has a lawsuit pending against Catholic Hierarchy to show their proof! Signor Cascioli?s contention is that there was no reliable evidence that Jesus lived and died in 1st-century Palestine and, therefore, “there is no basis for Christianity”!
RELIGION IS A ‘PONZI SCHEME’! A CRIMINAL ENTERPRIZE!
THE PUTRID PUKE OF DISTORTED MINDS!
There is no excuse for intelligent people to be so ignorant of facts about the charlatan fantasies and make-believe pretenses of religion, that works to undermine the true Democratic principles and unifying influences of our Democratic Society. To promote, propagate, profligate or publish the same pretentious and pompous falsehoods that are the evil tools used by Fallwell, Baker, Haggard, the Pope, and their ilk to brainwash, indoctrinate, brand, and subjugate innocent children and fools for the purpose of using them to gain ever more money, power, and divisive influence, is tantamount to supporting pimping, and prostitution. And because those charlatans use their evil schemes and lies to control, and enslave those misled ‘bovid-like’ droves by rendering them ‘virtual’ robots that do their bidding; they are criminals, and by supporting them, ‘you’, are a criminal cohort, equally guilty of the crimes they commit against humanity, those fools, and the children they sexually molest!
THE WORST FORM OF CHILD ABUSE IS WARPING OF THE MIND!
THE ORIGIN OF NATURE
Beginning is never found but keep an ear to the ground
Accept the word of a friend there’s no beginning or end
Nature origin for instance is ceaselessness Existence
JH 8/29/06
By Austin, March 16 at 8:23 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Re: Wow
Wow… all I really have to say is WOW… Those are some pretty bold statements… Some pretty bold statements… All I have to say is that I am praying for you and i am shocked by these accusations you are making, and might I add you have no support to these claims. THERE IS A GOD!!! and HE still loves you.
Reply to this | Report thisBy Jim H., September 8, 2007 at 3:57 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
____________________ATTENTION
---------------Mass/energy never disappear
-------------------Ever were ever here!
---With nothing to ‘create’, a “so-called “Creator-God”
--------is an impossible superfluous nonentity!
-----------------------J.H. 5/8/07
-------------------THE ORIGIN OF NATURE
------Beginning is never found but keep an ear to the ground
------Accept the word of a friend there’s no beginning or end
------Natures origin for instance is ceaselessness Existence
------The worst form of child abuse is warping of the mind!
--------------------------8/29/06
--------http://anoraclesworld.blogspot.com/
Reply to this | Report thisBy stanik, September 7, 2007 at 4:56 am #
(1 comments total)
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Reply to this | Report thisBy Ignorance Isn't Bliss, June 7, 2007 at 11:50 am #
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Reading over the comments, I find it interesting to see conservatives equating intelligence with arrogance. Where will we end up as a culture if we continue this trend of besmirching those who are well-spoken and well-educated simply because they are well-spoken and well-educated? The world is becoming increasingly more complex, and I know that I, for one, would like to see our leaders and commentators showing more intelligence and understanding, not less.
Of course, as the article points out, ignorance is the goal of the religious right. Evidence of their success can be found throughout this thread. How many posts on this thread make the claim that evolution is not fact, but theory and therefore has no real standing? Many on this thread also claim that it requires “faith” to “believe” in evolution. This shows both ignorance of how scienctific theories are formed, and ignorance of how the scientific community governs itself.
Theories are not “guesses”, they are frameworks for facts. These frameworks allow scientist to say “If A is true, then B should happen.” If B doesn’t happen, then the theory is changed or, if the evidence is strong enough against the theory, the theory is falsified (and thus is no longer taken seriously). So far, the facts continue to support the theory of evolution, facts that span many disciplines of science from geology to cell and molecular biology. Concepts have been adjusted as new facts come in, but nothing has been discovered to overturn the original premise. On the contrary, volumes of data have been discovered to support it.
So to say that believing in evolution takes faith is the equivolent of saying that believing in gravity takes faith (gravitational theory). Or atoms and molecules (atomic theory). Or magnets (electromagnetic theory).
I challenge those who believe that evolution is just a pet theory of godless scientist devised to shield them from having to admit there is a god to actually study evolution - not what creation scientists say about evolution - but evolution itself. If it’s really so flimsy, you shouldn’t have any problems at all. Of course, it might require you to become well-educated so that you can understand it, and that, my friend, could very well lead to arrogance.
Reply to this | Report thisBy one in California, June 1, 2007 at 7:40 am #
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HAHAHAHAHA. I have to give credit where it is due. Chris has overcome the triteness test. None of what you said was trite. it was “original” gobbledygook!
Reply to this | Report thisThere are so many intellectual Word circles I had to reread it to figure out where he stood on the issue. You have to be real smart(arrogant) to confuse your readers.
oh, he’s against it. hmm.
Funny how intolerant those are who accuse others of intolerance.
Oh yeah, we are real worried about the “dangers” of those who disagree on how stuff got started.
OOOO boogyman.
Sorry Chris, you blew it and only showed us unfounded fear of the “bad guys” the Christians.
I am so worried about the local Methodists, perverting my kids to doing bad things like not lying, and like cutting my head off for disagreement.
oh wait, that is the other guys isn’t it.
By Anyart, May 29, 2007 at 11:30 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
I have two sons, 11 and 13. They have a lot of fundie acquintances and are often slagged for believing in evlolution. I think my advice to them is probably applicable to many of you out there: Don’t worry about the fundie kids. In 10 or 15 years, you will be on your way to being a doctor, scientist, lawyer or other professional career that entails critical thinking. The fundie kids will either be washing your cars and mowing your lawn, or 5 years or more behind you as they will have to learn real science. They certainly won’t be in cometition for the same jobs.
Reply to this | Report thisBy my left foot, May 27, 2007 at 2:23 am #
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Evangelical leaders with little or no scientific background are encouraging the young people in there charge to question the validity of darwinian theory simply by offering uneducated opinions about theory and its purpose . First of all let me say this : Yes evolution “is” theory and so is the theory of relativity. Just ask the people of Nagasaki. “All” scientific thought will forever be theory. The reasoning being that if someone else can show “experimentally “ that the current thinking about an entity is “wrong “ then we have accomplished what “science “ has attempted to attain and that is the open endedness of inquiry that forever allows us to learn . As scientists we are attempting to understand our natural surroundings . To date evolution has been heralded as one of the best available theory’s . It is the very foundation for all of the biological sciences and certainly provides a foundation for many more natural sciences At this juncture nothing comes close to providing the base that evolutionary theory does . It’s led us to genetics which in turn has given us a look at dna which is the very foundation or the building blocks of life . It has given us a peek at the entire genome system that has already yeilded results scientifically and given us tools for further discovery . You need only to study biology and molecular biology to understand the processes of life and the complexity that surrounds us and everyday we are learning more and more and the basis for all of this rests with the “Theory of Evolution “ Evidence keeps piling up in all of the sciences in support of evolution . Join us as we search for answers. Study science and search for the answers . Inspire and be inspired .
Reply to this | Report thisBy creations, May 26, 2007 at 6:19 pm #
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You say, “Its goal is the destruction of the core values of the open society—the ability to think for oneself, to draw independent conclusions, to express dissent when judgment and common sense tell you something is wrong, to be self-critical, to challenge authority, to advocate for change and to accept that there are other views, different ways of being, that are morally and socially acceptable.” Yet you accuse them of doing exactly what you are accusing them of destroying. Science has never proved evolution to be fact. Why is it wrong to question it? Is freedom of speech only for the non-religious? Your faith is in the lie you call evolution. How truthfull is teaching a theory as fact to millions on children for decades?
Reply to this | Report thisBy Devin MacGregor, May 23, 2007 at 1:40 am #
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Webster: ... A legitimate journalist would do research and discover that truth is the absolute foundation of the Christian faith. ...
Devin: No Webster if you actually read your bible you would know that FAITH is the foundation of your religion. Truth is in the pudding. You have faith that you have Truth. And each christian sect has just a tad different Truth than the other but they all rest on FAITH as their bedrock.
Webster: ... any “pseudo-science” is involved, just the assumption that anyone questioning scientific orthodoxy (as Copernicus & Galileo once did) must be an enemy. ...
Devin: Psst, Webster those two you mentioned especially the latter questioned established CHURCH science. That would be the same people as those “creation scientists” of today. Apparently your counter-arguments are weakened by anyone who actually knows what and who those two men argued about and against.
Webster: Surely his most absurd and self-defeating claim ...
Devin: LOL, you are joking right? How many religions do we have in the world today? Each professing the order of things etc.
He is talking of scientific method, logic, etc as a universal standard as opposed to hmmm I do not know why this is so it must be supernatural. Then jump to your own conclusion that it was Bigfoot that created the world or Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, etc. Again in christianity alone how many read those scriptures differently according to their own interpretations and then claim their interpretations are the correct ones and divinely inspired?
Webster: ... First of all, does he not know that universities first grew out of church schools? Is he really ignorant of the fact that science, as a discipline, arose only in Christian-influence Western Europe, where inquisitive minds believed in a “God of order”, who would create a world of order, who commanded people made “in His image” (hence, also of orderly mind) to have dominion (not ownership or tyranny) over that world, hence requiring them to do their best to understand it? Is he not aware that Galileo, Kepler, Francis Bacon and Isaac Newton were all creationists, (Newton (at least) very explicitly a young-earth proponent)?
Devin: It is obvious that you do not know that schools existed before christianity. So did science, medicine, govt, law, engineering, etc. When christianity took over the governoring of Rome it was decreed that no more learning was necessary. God is all that one needed. The masses enlarge were no longer taught. Scrolls were burned. Libraries burned to the ground. We called these the Dark Ages. It it were not for some Irish monks and largely muslims outside of christian controlled territory we would have lost much more but it was with the advent of the crusades that brought back to backward Europe this knowledge that was suppressed. This sparked the rennaissance.
And gee what else could those men actually be other than christian? To be anything else then meant you were killed.
Webster: In short, ...
Devin: No Webster it is you that charged back with those truckloads of manure. What, can’t find the nearest federal building?
When you speak of contradictions in the future it is best that you look at your own contradictions in creation, adam/eve, flood, etc. All bound with contradictions.
Reply to this | Report thisBy James M, May 22, 2007 at 11:30 am #
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Thanks for this expose on the museum. I’ve posted some of the great parodies of and responses to the notorious “Bananas: an atheist’s nightmare” clip on my blog at http://blue.butler.edu/~jfmcgrat/blog/ I hope everyone finds them as amusing as I did. I find that I need a good dose of humor lest I burst into tears at the hard work and large sums of money being pumped into institutions that are opposed to science, reason and education…
Reply to this | Report thisBy my left foot, May 22, 2007 at 10:15 am #
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It’s no child left behind except in matters involving supernaturalism ,and the ghosts , spirits and gods that inspire the ignorance is bliss population . Hopefully, these children won’t always be exposed to fiction, but they’ll have a lot of catching up to do when they finally do break free of the nonsensical fables and fairy tales . Everything even remotely related to biology has a standardized base that starts with evolution . To correctly understand this data you must have a sufficient background if you are to be successful in your studies , but no matter how you present it to them that hand goes up and the la la la la la la’s begin. They are taught to ignore you the minute evolution is mentioned and no amount of reasoning will suffice . It’s classic brainwashing !!
Reply to this | Report thisBy Eloise999, May 22, 2007 at 6:41 am #
(1 comments total)
I think we should consider it child abuse when kids are deliberately fed creationist garbage to make them stupid. There is not the slightest evidence to support the idiotic notions that dinosaurs and humans co-existed, that T-rex was a herbivore (!), or that the universe is only about 6000 years old. Only the mentally ill could believe such nonsense in the face of overwhelming evidence against it. If Christians had their way, we’d all be living little better than the Bronze Age goat herders who wrote Genesis. They believed the Earth was a flat circle with a big dome of sky overhead. The dome was a solid structure with stars and planets embedded in it, and God could move them about like game pieces on a board. Oh, and you could reach the sky if you built a tall enough tower, but God would get angry and confuse your language. People believed this as the truth because they did not know any better, and now it’s in the Bible, and if you’re a Christian you have to accept it as truth, also, or else admit that the Bible is full of misinformation and nonsense. I suppose that’s Ken Hamstring’s next job--a museum devoted to the wonders of our flat Earth and its pretty sky-dome so that Christian children will be further compelled into the black hole of ignorance to which their parents have already consigned them. No wonder American kids are the dumbest in the industrialized world.
Reply to this | Report thisBy Webster, May 21, 2007 at 10:06 pm #
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Chris Hedges claims, against *all* the evidence, that creationists inhabit, “A World Where Lies Are True.” A legitimate journalist would do research and discover that truth is the absolute foundation of the Christian faith. As Paul wrote, “If Christ be not raised, [that is, if our claims about historical events are not true,] then your faith is worthless,” (1Cor 15:17).
I see much propaganda here, and very little in the way of factual data. There is not a single fact listed that is to be “discarded”. There is no argument that any “pseudo-science” is involved, just the assumption that anyone questioning scientific orthodoxy (as Copernicus & Galileo once did) must be an enemy. He claims that “facts are treated as opinions” with no evidence and no specifics, (apparently, his case would be weakened if anyone were able to check his “facts").
Surely his most absurd and self-defeating claim is this sentence, taken directly from the text:
“When facts are treated as if they were opinions, when there is no universal standard to determine truth, in law, in science, in scholarship, or in the reporting of the events of the day, the world becomes a place where people can believe what they want to believe, where there is no possibility of reaching any conclusion not predetermined by those who interpret the official, divinely inspired text.”
I count at least two SEPARATE pairs of contradictions, just in this sentence alone! Near the beginning, he says that “there is no universal standard,” but he finishes with reference to “the official, divinely inspired text.” In between, he says that, “the world becomes a place where people can believe what they want to believe,” amazingly, not even a single word separated from the description of this place as being, “where there is no possibility of reaching any conclusion not predetermined”!
Beyond his transparent self-contradiction and irrational fear of fact-checking, perhaps his most laughable scare-mongering is against, “universities that teach all science through the prism of the Bible.” First of all, does he not know that universities first grew out of church schools? Is he really ignorant of the fact that science, as a discipline, arose only in Christian-influence Western Europe, where inquisitive minds believed in a “God of order”, who would create a world of order, who commanded people made “in His image” (hence, also of orderly mind) to have dominion (not ownership or tyranny) over that world, hence requiring them to do their best to understand it? Is he not aware that Galileo, Kepler, Francis Bacon and Isaac Newton were all creationists, (Newton (at least) very explicitly a young-earth proponent)?
In short, Hedges plays fast and loose with what few facts he uses, and buries them in emotionally-charged innuendo like diamonds in truckloads of manure.
Reply to this | Report thisBy my left foot, May 21, 2007 at 8:26 am #
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Comments that are taken from the bible can be fielded in many literary works that are similar in philosophy worldwide . Take Islam, Hindu , The Torah , etc . Collectively I suppose I could find all of the works of the bible in a combination or combinations of works. Trinity’s and virgin births were abundant 600 years before Christ showed up . So what you are professing isn’t new it has however been packaged very cleverly over time. I don’t understand why Christians can’t reason in a similar manner and realize there book of mores isn’t the only one out there . I know , I know , this is the part where you feel the need to convince me that your book is the ultimate translation from god and that you worship the one true imagined god . There have been so many I’ve lost count. Your various sects have even omitted books claiming they didn’t contain the “breath of god “ like that macabees for instance . Although the catholic church offers this book still and its pronouncements of purgatory etc. There are so many others I just don’t have time here to list them all .
Reply to this | Report thisBy Christian, May 21, 2007 at 5:45 am #
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“Creationism is not about offering an alternative. Its goal is the destruction of the core values of the open society—the ability to think for oneself, to draw independent conclusions, to express dissent when judgment and common sense tell you something is wrong, to be self-critical, to challenge authority, to advocate for change and to accept that there are other views, different ways of being, that are morally and socially acceptable.”
Interestingly, if you’ve studied the Bible yourself (not relying on an explaination “predetermined by those who interpret the official, divinely inspired text") then you would see this statement about what creationism is destroying is actually a statement exposing the self-centeredness of human nature Satan appealed to in Genesis 3:4 ("knowing good and evil"). This theme is throughout the Bible and, as your statement shows, man wants to be self-reliant on his own Knowledge and Will as opposed to submitting to a perfect God, and ultimately submitting to Jesus for salvation from our sinning against God.
Your statement also is a fulfillment of 2 Timothy 4:3-4 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.”
The Bible (and Christianity as described in the Bible) is all about living peacefully together because we need to first humble ourselves by acknowledging there is a Living God who is much bigger than us, trusting in Jesus to forgive your personal sins of disobeying God, and then loving our fellow man as we love ourselves.
Don’t solely rely on what people say about the Bible and Christianity--read it yourself and remove all doubt!
Reply to this | Report thisBy my left foot, May 19, 2007 at 6:40 am #
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I agree with Yezbok sometimes when you are dealing with vulnerable people you need to give them something to run paralell and then let them choose . I think the museum Yezbok describes would be an excellent alternative followed by a darwinian narrative that simplifies the process. Placing it across the street from a creationist museum with plenty of glitter and circumstance would also make sense ,Let’s select a board of directors and make it happen.... Good thinking Yezbok
Reply to this | Report thisBy yezbok drahcir, May 18, 2007 at 8:18 pm #
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Forget censorship; build a ‘Totalitarian Museum’ across the street. Feature past dictators, showing how they were empowered by the exploitation of religion and the suppression of reason, and how crucifixions, inquisitions and genocide happened in the name of “saving nations” from “the wrath of God”.
Reply to this | Report thisBy Your Mom, May 10, 2007 at 6:24 pm #
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Get a job! Get off this site and get busy! Stop laying around eating potato chips and talking to crazy people on a computer. Can’t you think of anything else to do with your life? Is this how I brought you up? To be some kind of bum? Find a hobby worth doing. Get a life worth living. Yours is obviously in shambles.
Reply to this | Report thisBy Jim H., May 10, 2007 at 8:39 am #
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To: 69060
Need a Doc?
Look in the mirror! And, repeat after ‘me’:
“Your jibber jabber would be funny if it wasn’t so bizarre.
Are you on crack, alcohol, and meth at the same time? It seems that way!!!!! Whatever, get help and don’t talk to me until you do. You type nothing but wasted garbage. It almost looks like UNIX programming information that was affected by a serious computer virus. Senseless.” INANE!
But at least I am not an enslaved robotic GODIST denying reality for insanity!
Reply to this | Report thisBy Agree w/Doc, May 9, 2007 at 5:19 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
RE:68473
Jim Bob:
Reply to this | Report thisLet me introduce you this thing called Eastern Time. Ever heard of it? It means there is a 3 hour difference with these postings. No your not keeping me up, I get up to go to a full time job everyday. Something I wonder if any of you people have or have had in the past. You see I sleep just fine and wake up with peace.
Your jibber jabber would be funny if it wasn’t so bizarre.
By Jim H., May 6, 2007 at 1:32 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Re: 68356 by Ernest Canning
(This is my “lengthy rant” (response) ‘requested’ by Earnest Canning to his post admitting his lies about me!)
This guy Earnest Canning is not only a fool, but an admitted liar as well! Who, for some unfathomable purpose sees fit to make uncalled for lying assertions and snide remarks while defending and promoting a couple of religious fanatics against the barbs I cast at their ‘fallacious’ ‘Godism’. Although he readily admits to some of his bigoted debasing lies, he fails to account for his failure to know the facts before sinking to the level of a snake and casting his uncalled for aspersions. And, in his effort to cast a ‘smokescreen’ to minimize the extent of his egregiousness, he resorts to more uncalled for malicious remarks hoping no doubt, that others may be influenced to side with him and overlook his horrible bigotry. And, when I, ‘naturally’ took offense at his admitted unwarranted derogatory remarks, as any sensible person would, and asked: “Is it your custom to start by inserting your nose where it doesn’t belong! while emulating those you see fit to congratulate for doing the very same!, i.e., totally avoiding the SUBJECT at hand.”
‘Don’t you know’ this ‘Joker’ had to go and twist these carefully chosen words to:
“He suggested that I had no right to inject myself into his dialogue--as if the comment section at Truthdig was his personal domain”. (?)
And then, ‘Earnest Canning’ says: “ It is my profound hope that all Truthdig readers stop responding to Jim”
NOW! JUST ‘WHO’ THINKS HE OWNS Truthdig?
No one takes offense at properly expressed criticism that is not wh