Lamont B Dumont on 2/21 at 5:33 pm said
“Jeff, you are not “grammatically challenged”, you are grammatically lazy”

okay you made me say this!! i don’t wish to cry in my beer, for us republicans aren’t supposed to whine.  but I’m dyslexic!! and my spelling is horrendous !! if it weren’t for spell check i wouldn’t even attempt to post for half my word are spelled wrong !!! because of that i have only been typing for a few yrs now so maybe with time it will improve ??  i wish you were right??  i wish it was just sloth !! (and i am lazy, notice the capitalization i refuse to use) but in my defense go talk to anyone who’s an expert and they will tell you spelling is a gauge of how well you can spell?? for i know i have been there!!  in most, and i say most cases it doesn’t have any correlation or show proof of other mental or logical dysfunction by its self
sure retarded people and those stricken with mental disorders cant spell but you have to look at the person in his or her entirety !!

and, i dont need to know how to spell to know abortion is wrong !!

-IllGramaticus KneeO’Kaun

Jeff, you are not “grammatically challenged”, you are grammatically lazy.  Lazy writing reflects lazy thinking; it’s not a mental or intellectual defect, it’s sloth.  If taking the time and effort to try to spell correctly and write clearly makes me guilty of the sin of Pride, I hope I get a seat in Hell near Thomas Pynchon. 
The dismissal of Samara’s point about fertility clinics is lazy.  The anti-abortion lobby has been unstinting in its insistence that the location of an embryo is immaterial with regard to its “sanctity”.  At least they put in a dishonest day’s hard work to come up with the “snowflake baby” dodge, and our lazy media never dug into it deep enough to realize and report that for every donated embryo brought to term in another woman’s uterus, thousands are dumpstered.
Lazy also was the lie that the number of embryos dumpstered by fertility clinics is insignificant in comparison to the number of abortions.  If anything, it’s the other way around. 
So you’re (not your) ready to say an embryo in a petri dish under liquid nitrogen is not as deserving of protection as one in a uterus?  A more observant person might notice how steep and slippery that slope is…
Why doesn’t the anti-abortion lobby tell us the truth.  They aren’t “Pro-Life”, they’re (not there, nor their) just Pro-Birth.  They are too busy meddling in the painful private decisions of others to show any concern for post-partum human life.

sorry to all for the last comment about being censored for some reason it just took then extra time to print one on my comments on another story, i was wrong and to truthdig i apologize

Eleanore as far abortion and caring for children goes i don’t understand why some believe that us pro-lifers don’t care about children once they are born ??? so they have to site stats and such ??? i believe in the right of the unborn child and i also believe its a societies duty to nurture and provide for the children among us too they are not exclusive idea’s with me ??? i might be a little harder on adults than libs might wish but I’m nothing but 100% in favor of providing for the well being of our nations children !!  i don’t know what Jesus has to do with it ???

IllGramaticus KneeO’Kaun

Jeff,
You are so wound-up and ready to defend “your perspective” that you fail to understand what the statistics cited represent—-family values and the sanctity of life is NOT merely about protecting embryos.

Jesus never said one word about homosexuality, he never said one word about civil marriage or abortions, but he was very clear about poverty--spirituality, no matter what your beliefs can only be achieved by eradicating poverty, protecting the environment and ending the war in Iraq.

Sadly, corporate avarice has eliminated the social contracts that were critical in protecting the middle-class--unemployment, low wages and no benefits, undermine middle-class family life—-the very backbone of our democracy. 

Here lies the spiritual contradictions of the 21st Century “moneylenders”--reverence toward embryos but forgetting the child, scorning homosexuality, but weakening families in favor of profit, acting pious, but expressing apathy towards the sick, weak and poor.

Okay Eleanore,
let me try to answer theses 10 questions ?? even though as i have said before your stats tend to be slightly off ??
Q-1.  Why do children represent a disproportionate share of the poor in the United States?
A- unfortunately they are the weakest of our population, and the weakest of any culture are the first to be poor in any said culture its just a sad hard fact of human civilization !!
Q-2.  Why has the proportion of children without health insurance, remained at 8.5 million, or 11.7 percent of all children?
A- no excuse, bad parenting for any and all can get medicare (called something different i think) for there children nationwide
Q-3 Why are young adults (18 to 24 years old) less likely to have health insurance coverage?
A- cause young people have the worst jobs and those jobs don’t or wont supply there workers with health care !!
Q-4.  Why is there a direct correlation between health insurance coverage and income—
A- self explanatory
Q-5.  Why do most homeless families consist mostly of an unmarried mothers and children?
A- breakdown of families and morals in the culture
Q-6.  Why are there more than 750,000 homeless people in the United States?
A-well considering we have a population of over 300 million i would say most are homeless due to mental disorder or drug and alcohol addiction some have just given up and left the rat race !!
Q-7.  Why does 50 percent of America’s homeless have substance abuse problems?
According
A- you just answered Q-6 for me !!
Q-8.  Why does more than 40 million people in the U.S.  Lack the skills to read a job offer or utility bill?
A- horrible PC school systems run by democrat unions more concerned with teachers jobs than they are with teaching children and kids get passed to the next grade as not to hurt there feeling, when they cant read or write !!! (count me as once, one of these kids)
Q-9.  Why does a 2003 survey by the National Assessment of Adult Literacy (NAAL), conducted by the US Department of Education,
A- same answer as # 8
Q-10.  Why does the United States allow the widespread trafficking of thousands of “American children”
A- come on ?? we don’t allow this it just happens because some people are evil immoral people !!

Eleanore, all this being said ??? the government cant fix every problem !! this is a free country free to be poor and the such but anyway that’s no excuse for abortion !!

From the SoapBox of Da IllGramaticus KneeO’Kaun

Hello again Eleanore nice to here from you
yes you are right there is a problem in this country with child poverty in relationship to the rest of us (non-children) even thought we still have the highest standard of living in the history of the planet !!! but if one child is poor that’s one child to many i will agree!!  unfortunately we cant remove children from drug addict parents or abusive parents or horrible acts of fate that render them poor !!!  all that being said, going after your political leaders to demand better treatment for the poor children of our country is by all means your prerogative and i see no fault in doing that, i actually encourage it !!  and you will never here me advocate denying children services they need !!!

but just because we have children in our country that are poor is no reason to advocate the act of fetal homicide, to support genocide on the unborn !!! just because there are poor amongst our children is no excuse to abort 25% of them !!! this is another left leaning illogical argument !! a bate and switch tactic to refuse to face the facts that abortion is wrong !!!

IF THE SUPPORTERS WHO BAN ABORTION ARE REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT HUMAN LIFE, WHY HAVEN’T THEY AGRESSIVELY SPOKEN OUT ABOUT “BORN CHILDREN ” OR PERHAPS IT’S EASIER FOR THEM TO SPOUT POLITICAL PROPAGANDA AND RIGEOUTEOSNESS WHEN ONLY TALKING ABOUT LIFE THAT DOESN’T REALLY EXIST.

1.  Why do children represent a disproportionate share of the poor in the United States?  They are 25 percent of the total population, but 35 percent of the poor population. In 2004, 13 million children, or 17.8 percent children, were poor.

2.  Why has the proportion of children without health insurance, remained at 8.5 million, or 11.7 percent of all children?

3.  Why are young adults (18 to 24 years old) less likely to have health insurance coverage?

4.  Why is there a direct correlation between health insurance coverage and income—92 percent of homes that earn incomes of $75,000 have health insurance—what about families that don’t earn $75,000 a year?

5.  Why do most homeless families consist mostly of an unmarried mothers and children?

6.  Why are there more than 750,000 homeless people in the United States?

7.  Why does 50 percent of America’s homeless have substance abuse problems?

According to a 2005 study of homeless young people published in the “Journal of Adolescence” which found that personal drug use, familial drug use, family conflict, and in some cases family breakdown were contributing factors.

8.  Why does more than 40 million people in the U.S.  Lack the skills to read a job offer or utility bill?

9.  Why does a 2003 survey by the National Assessment of Adult Literacy (NAAL), conducted by the US Department of Education, indicate that fourteen percent of American adults scored below the basic level in prose literacy and that more than half of these persons did not have a high school diploma or GED?

10.  Why does the United States allow the widespread trafficking of thousands of “American children” into the slave trade which forces them into commercial sex work, hazardous labor or domestic service?

Lamont how superior !!! were do people get the idea that those of us who are grammatically challenged also must be mentally challenged too ??? sounds like an ignorant bigoted statement to me ?? English is only one subject among many and not to tell you to much personal business, but there can many good reasons why some spell worse than others ?? as long as you can understand what I’m saying ? i think thats the point !!  unless your a snob !!
i did address the clinics question so read it its a false argument.  i love women as sexual creatures !! again your being the narrowed minded professor !!! regardless of how much we like sex or sexuality it should not and could not be free pass to kill the Innocent !!! 
I’m not calling anyone a Nazi, but Nazis loved the act of abortion they forced them on the undesirable. we should really look at ourselves and what we are doing as a culture, all the stats by Polly about poverty in New York ?? like that’s an excuse to kill the unborn ??

from the SoapBox of Da IllGramaticus KneeO’Kaun

John Lowell; Thanks for your thinly veiled reference to me as a Nazi.  The Wingnuts always trot out the Nazi/Hitler references as soon as logic and facts fail them, which is usually pretty early on in the discussion.  I accept your unconditional intellectual surrender.
In truth, you’d likely be a more comfy fit in the Nazi party than me.  Nazis also tended to be people who adhered so tightly to a specious ideological position that they eventually tied themselves into knots.  It gives them something to do while hanging out in that corner waiting for the paint to dry. 
I’m a scientist, at least that’s how I put dinner on the table.  I’m a college drop-out, but the last 4 people who did my job are Ph.D.’s.  I can pull this off because my mind naturally works that way.  Evaluating facts, assembling them into models, reaching conclusions & making predictions based on those models and most importantly, smashing the models and reaching new, often very different conclusions when new facts contradict my old model is just second nature to me.  As a result, I’m not comfortable with any ideology, since they all tend to ban inconvenient facts and frown on intellectual curiosity.  Forced to declare my politics, I would characterize myself as a Groucho Marxist, I wouldn’t belong to any party with standards so low that they would have me as a member. 

Jeff Badura; Please learn to spell.  Sloppy writing is evidence of sloppy thinking.

Neither of you addressed my (or Samara’s) point about fertility clinics.  I can see why you would be reticent to do so.  That is the inconvenient bit that reveals you both as base hypocrites.  Your choice to castigate the destruction of an embryo created through sex and dismiss, nay ignore the destruction of an embryo created through science says more about you and your position than you can ever say yourselves, even if Jeff ever does learn to write. 

What you choose not to says reveals much more than what you choose to say.

Just a couple of guys uncomfortable in their own skins, totally freaked out at the idea that a woman could be a sexual creature. 

Go be sad little boys on your and let the grown-ups worry about this one.  This debate requires people who are unafraid to confront all of the available facts and who won’t toss out the facts that don’t fit their pre-established position.

Lamont, you got me I’m a anti-abortion nut ??? in your mind because I’m against the genocide of the unborn child!! I’m a “nut” !! I’m insane ??? so be it !! 

Louise, your logic is way off base, even if its constantly repeated by the nay-sayers on the left, just because you might think Iraq was the wrong thing to do doesn’t mean we should throw our hands up and never try to do whats right ever ??? Iraq has nothing to do with abortion !!! and to argue your point it was not an illegal war and those who died, though they were innocent, they died protecting our future and did it with eyes wide open as a volunteer force!!! even if you were right about Iraq (and you are not) complaining about one wrong is no excuse to refuse to address any wrongs !!! and that’s often the argument of the left!! to change the topic and point out another misdeed in order to not face the misdeed in question !!! its intellectually dishonest and irresponsible because if you use this template on all arguments, you never have to face any !! but i think that’s your plan !!

-From the SaopBox of Da IllGramaticus KneeO’Kaun

Samara your point about pro-lifers not picketing fertility clinics is very weak, first of all they picket abortion clinic cause those places are places dedicated to the killing of the unborn child that’s the sole purpose! that’s were the act is being committed so that’s were you naturally get the protest!! for 25% of our children are aborted every year since 1972 about 1.5 million a yr. these numbers are so much larger than anything the fertility clinic does !!! the embryo’s in the fertility clinic are in test tubs dishes or what ever there not in the womb, yes they will be destroyed and yes some right to lifers are against that just look to the stem cell debate to see what i mean. what have done Samara is just to obfuscate the matter on were protests are held so that you yourself don’t have to face the ugly facts that abortion is murder by ridiculing those against the act of fetal homicide you hope to detract from the main topic at hand !!! even the PC term “pro-choice” is a perfect example of obfuscation and denial for who is against “choice” we all like choice in music in sports in movies food what ever but we don’t have the choice to kill others ??? the pro-abortion groups don’t even want to here the word !!! so they call it choice ??? back to your post some pro-life groups are against the fertility clinics you do hear loud peeps in the stem cell debate and i ask you, who is to be held accountable for their absurd positions on the genocide of the unborn child??? all of us will be held accountable.by history !!! just as we now look with disdain on the past crimes of man when speaking of slavery or the inhumanity of the roman arena we will be ridiculed for the inhuman act of abortion by future generations a hundred years from now !!

-From the SoapBox of Da IllGramaticus KneeO’Kaun

“most persons concerned with embryos are not at all concerned with life after birth and that is just highly concentrated cowflop, of course. The very anthropology that informs the one compels the other.”

John,
A cultural anthropological monograph about the social and political conflicts of abortion in the U.S. would confound most observers.  The emergence of evangelicals backing political candidates over the last 30 years is the predominate reason why conflicting ideology has surfaced over a “women’s right to choose.”

Religious beliefs, dictate that life begins at the moment of conception, however, religious beliefs are grounded in “blind faith.” Those with secular views of conception fail to see microscopic cells as a “vulnerable child.” So here again, the real issue is separation of church and state.

Fundamentalists see the need for NO separation—-they believe that the U.S. is a Christian Nation and laws should be theologically designed.

Now let’s talk about “cowflop”—-we can’t always agree as to when life begins, but we all know what a toddler looks like, and we can all easily assess when someone is living in poverty—according to figures released by the U.S. Census Bureau in September 1996, 13.8% of Americans live in poverty. Many more are on the borderline. Poverty affects all ages, but an astonishing 48% percent of its victims are children:
• About 15 million children—one out of every four—live below the official poverty line.
• 22% of Americans under the age of 18—and 25% under age 12—are hungry or at the risk of being hungry.
• Everyday 2,660 children are born into poverty; 27 die because of it.
• Children and families are the fastest growing group in the homeless population, representing 40%.

John, Evangelicals collect hundreds of millions from their devoted following, it’s disingenuous to philosophize about the sacredness of conception, if these same fundamentalist sects refuse to donate their fortune to poverty—-why do followers of Jesus need to horde billions of dollars?

Now let’s talk about New York, the domain of Giuliani, domestic poverty knows no geographical barriers, but it is especially widespread in New York City.  A study, released in 1995 by the Citizens Committee for Children of New York, reveals that New York children fare worse in virtually every category than their counterparts at the state and national level. This includes low birth weight, infant mortality, violence-related deaths, abuse and neglect, education, and job preparedness.
Life for New York City children is getting worse: 
• 25% of New Yorkers are children.
• 762,000 children live in poverty.
• 181 babies are born into poverty each day.
• 10,000 children are homeless. This number has doubled since 1988.
In addition to these sad statistics, many New York City children read and do math below grade level. An estimated 38.9% of the city’s school children will graduate high school, compared to 68.8% of all American students

Giuliani, our “warrior candidate” showed a complete disregard for the poor in NYC when he was Mayor—-many perceived is policies to be racist.  So if you are interested in a warmonger, who is completely apathetic to social issues—-Giuliani is your Man.

MR. Polly Ester
you are way out of line equating the US, Military to Nazis and Guantanamo to concentration camps !!! you must have zero knowledge of history for its evident to see your clueless on the matters you speak of !! “Bergen-Belsen.” was a death camp were innocent Jews, gays, Gypsies were worked to death in slave labor or taken to the gas chamber to be killed !! Guantanamo is a detention center for prisoners of war who were picked up on the battle field and wish to kill you !! they are not innocent !!! they are not being worked to death in slave labor and they are given Geneva convention rights when in fact they don’t qualify for them because they not uniformed soldiers there officially according to the Geneva convention “saboteurs” and by the Geneva convention we have the right to shoot all none uniformed combatants we find on the battlefield because they are hiding in, and endangering the civilian populace when they refuse to were military uniforms !! so we are treating them above and beyond the Geneva convention !! it is very clear you wouldn’t know a Nazi if he was marching down your street ??? until you would be greeting him with a white flag !!!  you guys on the far left loony bin always willing to call the USA Nazis, when we are in the middle of a world wide war on Islamic extremist are not only lacking any kind of intelligence but also are treasonous because your giving propaganda aid to the enemy !!! shame on you for your hateful ignorant comments !!!!  shame on you !!

- from the soapbox of, Da IllGramaticus KneeO’kaun

Hey Rodney Matthews thanks for the advise but i already figured that one out !! no i wouldn’t want any women i impregnate to have a abortion !! and if she did i would no longer have anything to do with her !! if she tells me she is pro-abortion i then also no longer have anything sexual to do with her, because your are right, i don’t want to have a abortion

but Rodney Matthews your argument is illogical you seam to imply that only those affected by said circumstance should be the sole ones allowed to make the decision but who speaks for the unborn child ??? what right to choice does he or she have ???

no Rodney Matthews we are honor bound to speak out on all evil we come across that’s what people do who live in a society together we work together for the betterment of said society

- from the soapbox of, Da IllGramaticus KneeO’kaun

dear Samara,

I’m not going to speak for anybody else but i will speak for myself, Abortion is murder !! its that simple !! when you die the Dr. will pronounce you dead when the electrical activity in your brain stops !! that’s when you are officially and scientifically dead so it logical to say that life begins when that synapse starts in the fetus (around day 7) just because the babies head hasn’t came out of the Virgina yet, does not mean its not a living being !!  when i here women speak of women’s rights? when speaking of abortion. it echos the American Civil War were Southerners spoke of “states rights” when speaking of slavery!! its a illogical argument, your rights to happiness do not trump others rights to life !! when you become pregnant you no longer are just talking about your body for you now are sharing it with an equally important being !! its now their body for you are sharing it for the next 9 months !! I’m sorry if mammal biology doesn’t sit well with the feminist movement but so be it !! the purpose of sex is not to empower you, or to have fun, its to reproduce!! if you have sex by all means use birth control, but understand that if you get pregnant you have responsibility to your baby!! if you don’t want or cant have a baby then don’t have vaginal sex ! sorry but that’s the hard facts !!  in the 60’s and 70’s we had a cultural revolution and the pendulum swung to far to the left when Row vs Wade was made law !! its bad law the 4th amendment to the Constitution speaks of illegal search and such not the killing of the unborn child its a terrible interpretation of the amendment !! abortion has created a rift in our political parties it cause hate on both sides of the isles and its gotten Bush elected twice for he never would have won the elections if the religious right wasn’t voting on abortion !! its been a moral stain on our nation over 45 million children have been killed in the name of sexual freedom or “women’s rights”!! 25% of of children have been executed for the crime of having a mother who didn’t want them !! and then we go to the third world to adopt babies !!  genocide is defined as a act of killing 10% of a population for economic or political or religious reasons and we are killing our young at the rate of 25 % we are committing genocide on the weakest members of our society and a culture is judges by how they treat the weakest members of that culture so shame on all of us !!! and all the other rights given to us by the cultural revolution are not in question any more, they are accepted as a facts of life!!  but not abortion ?? abortion will be argued over, until we do away with it, because its wrong and evil !! and the numbers of those against it are slowly becoming the majority and i will admit slowly !! but the tide is turning and genocide of the unborn child is on its way out, it will just take a couple of judges than time to make law giving the fetus the same rights we all have but it is on its way out !!  the Bill of Rights is the preamble to the Constitution and it says right at the beginning that we all have the right to “ Life Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness” the first right is life !!! life trumps all other concerns your happiness should not be allowed to overrule the unborn child’s right to life its that simple !! regardless of how burdensome childbirth might be !!

- from the soapbox of, Da IllGramaticus KneeO’kaun

What most of the Anti-Choice movement really is about is punishing women for having sex; not about “protecting all life from the moment of conception”. The main piece of evidence that we have is the utter lack of effort by these so-called “Pro-Lifers” to picket, shut down and outlaw every fertility clinic in this country. I find this absolutely confounding given that thousands of “unborn lives” are routinely destroyed in said fertility clinics every year; about as much as in abortion clinice. So what actually is the material difference between “destroying unborn life” in fertility clinics and “destroying unborn life” in abortion clinics? Pro-lifers regularly make the argument the “location of the unborn life” is immaterial, whether in or outside the womb. Therefore, I hold them to their own words when I ask this question: Why does the “location” all of a sudden NOT matter here; whether in the abotion clinic or the fertility clinic? The end result is the same; an “unborn life is destroyed.

Yet we don’t hear a peep about that, I guess, because women who seek assistance from fertility clinics are not trying to “escape the consequences of having sex”, a situation against which I have heard so many “Pro-Lifers” rant againt. I can’t count how many times I have heard Pro-Lifers rant against women having sex and how such women should “accept the consequences of having sex”. Yet at the same time, they deny that their goal is to punish women for having sex when confronted about this reality. This seems like a blatent contradiction if you look at their actions.

To any “Pro-Lifer” who denies that their main goal is not to really punish women for having sex but to “protect the unborn”, please explain to me why National Right to Life (and the rest of their ilk) don’t rountinely picket fertility clinics that regularly destroy said unborn life and make outlawing them part of their top priorities, along with shutting down abortion clinics? I think the answer is glaring obvious for the reasons previously stated. Also, it would be terrible PR for the “Pro-Life” movement’s efforts to persuade public opinion to agree with their fascist views that the Govt. should enact compulsory pregnancy/childbirth laws against women-rendering us to be nothing but fetal factories and thus rolling back decades of women’s progress in this country. Yet these Pro-Lifers completely undermine their own premise by not favoring the outlawing of fertility clinics. They need to be held accountable for their absurd positions.

Hello Polly,

You say:

“It’s quite bizarre, that some people will obsess over zygotes, and are cavalier about adult human life; a psychiatrist is needed to analyze that kind of logic, since it’s just too demented for average folks to comprehend.”

Your precise meaning notwithstanding, what is implied here - and what is erroneously presupposed by all too many, Oberstgruppenfeuhrer Dumont included it would seem - is that most persons concerned with embryos are not at all concerned with life after birth and that is just highly concentrated cowflop, of course. The very anthropology that informs the one compels the other. What is far, far more common are those who either through ignorance or willful self-service make dramatic display of their compassion yet are perfectly prepared in another moment to dispatch or to objectify and reduce to profitable use the very weakest among us. So whatever might be said of truth and sanctity in the Bush Regime, if you’re on the look-out for qualifying phonies, go no further than the death penalty abolishing career woman that just left an abortion clinic. No, I’m afraid we’ve found just the job for Herr Dumont.

John Lowell

Hey jeff if you don’t like abortion then don’t have one.

John,
Actually the leaders who authorized “a war of choice” against Iraq, which caused the death of over 600,000 Iraqis, and over 3,000 U.S. troops, would be the prime candidates for managing “Bergen-Belsen.”

I think today, those detention camps are called Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib, and secret torture facilities utilized by the “extraordinary Rendition Program.”

It’s quite bizarre, that some people will obsess over zygotes, and are cavalier about adult human life; a psychiatrist is needed to analyze that kind of logic, since it’s just too demented for average folks to comprehend.

Even if we disregard the abortion
issue—-Giuliani is still incompetent—-being Major of NYC does NOT a president make, in fact, he has stated that he would still have invaded Iraq, even if he knew they had NO WMDS-—now, that’s simply nuts.

He actually believes the Giuliani “warrior myth.” Talking tough about “Islamofascism,” shows a desperation to win favor with Conservative Republicans—-we don’t need another irresponsible nutcase in the White House, with a loose trigger finger; eight years is quite enough.

Rite on Kevin .... along with all those others who believe there is more after this life and are willing to make unreasonable choices/decisions/statements now so that THEY will be accepted and rewarded in the next!

Politicians will say and do whatever it takes to get elected, to bad the public usually listens and believes them, even worse the politicians are to scared to say what they really believe in - and when they do (rarely) state their true opinion they get walked all over by other poli, the public and media.

Justice Blackmum writing the courts opinion in Roe v Wade said that given the lack of consensus between the scientific, philosophical, and theological communities on when life begins, it was not for the judiciary to presume to answer that question at this point in man’s understanding about life. It is presumptuous for any theologian to make that determination for us all. This debate is all politics now.

Hey Rodney Matthews its not religious bigotry? its respect for the unborn child, the repect for life!!! if you believe Abortion is murder than you can’t vote for Rudy, thats not bigotry its conviction!!! libs dont know the diffrence!! they always have to slander the right!!

Ridi won’t get the republican nomination anyway because the religious bigots won’t vote for him or Mitt Romney.

Lamont B. Dumont,

Clearly, your real calling passed you by in the 1940s. You should have been a guard at Bergen-Belsen extracting the gold from the teeth of the inmates that were gassed there.

John Lowell

Politicians like great apes evolve. And like their distant relatives swing back and forth, from branch to branch, depending on where the food is and which way the wind is blowing.

No cause for alarm, that’s just the way it is. That’s just the way most of us are. So what on earth prompts people to think a politician, just because he’s decided he wants to be a president will be exceptional? I’d say the most exceptional thing about them is they want to be!

Now about that pro-life thing. That one always puzzles me.

“It’s not hard to share the concern of right-to-lifers for the value of human life from the moment of conception.”
Agreed.
But what about after birth?

When a candidate states he makes “no apology for the fact that I am pro-life.” I’m always left hanging ... waiting for the following statement. Something to the effect, “which is why I am appalled and disgusted with the number of innocent children who have suffered horrible injuries and violent deaths in this illegal war in Iraq!”

Nuff said.

Giuliani - I never bought him as any sort of hero; he was just in the right seat at the right time was was able to cover his screw-ups in the aftermath.  I’ve considered him an unpricipled, ambitious political hack ever since he was a showboating US Attorney taking undue credit for the work of his much more talented staff. 

Abortion is the elephant in the room partly because of our sound-bite political culture.  People who have positions that can’t be summed up in 10 words or less are ridiculed and marginalized.  No one is given the time to present a thorough position because the MSM has decided that each voter either has the attention span of a fruit fly or is monomanaically obsessed with a single issue. 

I’d like to see the feet of the sanctimonious busybodies (or “pro-lifers” as they like to unjustifiably compliment themselves) held to the fire.  Are they ready to start picketing fertility clinics?  They are livid that surplus embryos from fertility clinics might be used for stem-cell research.  Does it not violate the “sanctity of life” to toss those embryos in the dumpster?  Is it really better to throw them out in the trash than to use them to research possible cures?  Because that’s where most of the wind up.

In for a dime, in for a dollar - if you oppose using surplus embryos for research, you are dishonest if you do not oppose the creation of those surplus embryos in the first place.  Are you going to crank up a protest at the local fertility clinic?  Of course not, because then you would be telling infertile couples they may not reproduce.  That’s not going to win you a lot of converts.  You can’t rationalize that your acceptance of fertility practices is pro-life, because embryos WILL be destroyed as a result.  Please don’t come back with the “snowflake baby” dodge.  Only a very tiny fraction of surplus embryos are implanted in someone else’s womb.  According to the corner you painted yourself into, if one embryo is destroyed, it’s murder.

Is every embryo is sacred?  Or just the ones that came about as a result of having sex?  Now we’re getting to the real issue.  The anti-abortion wingnuts don’t really care about life, per se.  If they did, they’d have much more reasonable positions on what happens to a baby AFTER it’s born.  I think they are freaked out about the sex. 

Scratch an anti-abortion nut, you’ll find a sex fiend whose upbringing has taught them to feel very about about their sexuality. 

No one is “pro-abortion”.  No one “wants” to have an abortion, any more that anyone “wants” to have a quadruple bypass.  Unfortunately, one of those groups is made to feel guilty about a difficult medical decision by people who would do us all a favor if they’d to their own internal demons instead.

Mitt Romney’s change on abortion isn’t as relevant as his Mormon beliefs.  As long as you believe that when you die you go on with your wives to another planet to populate it, he’s doomed to be tossed into the “wacko” bin along with the Scientologists.

Giuliani is a comic book fantasy character created by MSM.  On September 10, 2001 is popularity was zero—-his second wife, Donna Hanover, was about to throw him out of Gracie Mansion; because he kept bringing his girlfriend Judi (now is third wife) to the Mayor’s residence.

Most ethnic groups in NYC hated him—-they considered him a racist fascist. http://www.openair.org/alerts/artist/nyhitl2.html

MSM’S super-fantasy figure was considered a creepy mayor who did not have a “pot to piss in,” but he became a main benefactor of 9/11—-isn’t it interesting how a penniless major, who didn’t supply his policemen and fireman with working radios—-hampering their interdepartmental communications, became a multi-millionaire:  “The only thing Giuliani has run since leaving office is the booming franchise of Giuliani. He has written a huge best seller and made a small fortune giving speeches all over the world. He has run a lucrative consulting business, one that enables him to fly down to a place like Mexico City for a few days, explain to them how they can reduce the crime rate and then he pockets big change.” http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1776815/posts

“Witnesses who escaped from the tower tell a vastly different story than Mr. Giuliani. They say that in the north tower’s final 15 minutes, only a handful of civilian office workers were still in the bottom 44 floors of the building, perhaps no more than two or three dozen. Many of the firefighters who remained in the towers were between the 19th and 37th floors, having made slow progress up the stairs in their heavy gear.
It is clear, witnesses said, that even after the south tower collapsed, many, if not most, of the firefighters had no idea that they were in dire peril, or that it was time for them to leave. In contrast, police officers received strong guidance from their commanders to get out of the building, the commission reported, thanks in large part to the information sent to the ground by police helicopters”

So who cares where he stands on abortion--the guys a jerk.

Why, oh why, is it that abortion “is often the issue on politicians seem especially opportunistic and unprincipled”, puzzles the baffled E.J. Dionne. After all, “we have created a system that encourages many in their ranks to adjust their convictions to their political needs. And then we denounce them”.

Just a couple of universe-sized things wrong with this rather clueless reverie: (1) the operation of the “system” doesn’t somehow nullify a politician’s innate capacity to make moral judgements, sin does that, and (2) “we” didn’t create the “system”, they did. Dionne would seem so possessed of victimization imagery that he can manage a sugary measure of sympathy even for the protozoa that make such a travesty of our political life? Truly remarkable, I’d say.

John Lowell

abortion is the bull in the china closet !! Romney changed his view?? cause he knows he had no shot at the nomination as a pro-abortion candidate !!! for those of us who believe abortion is genocide we wont, and can never, vote for a pro abortion candidate !!!
the press is giving Giuliani the red carpet treatment, cause they wish to advocate his social liberal views, but he has no chance at being the GOP nominee for he’s on the wrong side, of one of the most important issues in the party !!  the genocide of the unborn child !!!
on the opposite track Dem’s have to be pro-abortion if they wish to win the nomination !! abortion is the line in the sand !! thats why politicians flip flop when seeking national office!!

The (apparent) strength of the Republican Party over the recent past has been about the red meat issues for the Christian fundamentalist--god, guns, gays, and gynecology/obstetrics. The willingness of the Republicans to cynically throw them this red meat--in combination with Fox news misinforming these people 24/7 about how poorly they were otherwise being represented and lying about the opposition--is THE STORY of how the Republicans have been able to rack up all of these congressional victories and greatly harm the country.

During these increasingly uncertain times, you can expect to see even more people turn to fundamentalism and exacerbate the above described phenomenon.

jon
For some relevant irreverence on the recent global warming report, see: http://EcosystemCollapse.com/ellen.html