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 Christianists on the MarchPosted on Jan 28, 2007
By Chris Hedges Chris Hedges, who graduated from seminary at Harvard Divinity School and worked for many years as a foreign correspondent for The New York Times, warns that the Christian Right is the most dangerous mass movement in American history. After two years reporting on the movement for his new book “American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America”, he writes that its engine is profound personal and economic despair caused by mounting social and economic inequities that fuel the creation of an American oligarchy. This despair, he said, has led tens of millions of Americans into the arms of demogogues who offer a world of miracles and magic, who sanctify and fuel the rage of America’s dispossessed and who plot the destruction the democratic state.
Dr. James Luther Adams, my ethics professor at Harvard Divinity School, told his students that when we were his age—he was then close to 80—we would all be fighting the “Christian fascists.” The warning, given 25 years ago, came at the moment Pat Robertson and other radio and television evangelists began speaking about a new political religion that would direct its efforts toward taking control of all institutions, including mainstream denominations and the government. Its stated goal was to use the United States to create a global Christian empire. This call for fundamentalists and evangelicals to take political power was a radical and ominous mutation of traditional Christianity. It was hard, at the time, to take such fantastic rhetoric seriously, especially given the buffoonish quality of those who expounded it. But Adams warned us against the blindness caused by intellectual snobbery. The Nazis, he said, were not going to return with swastikas and brown shirts. Their ideological inheritors had found a mask for fascism in the pages of the Bible. He was not a man to use the word fascist lightly. He had been in Germany in 1935 and 1936 and worked with the underground anti-Nazi church, known as the Confessing Church, led by Dietrich Bonhoeffer. Adams was eventually detained and interrogated by the Gestapo, who suggested he might want to consider returning to the United States. It was a suggestion he followed. He left on a night train with framed portraits of Adolf Hitler placed over the contents of his suitcases to hide the rolls of home-movie film he had taken of the so-called German Christian Church, which was pro-Nazi, and the few individuals who defied the Nazis, including the theologians Karl Barth and Albert Schweitzer. The ruse worked when the border police lifted the tops of the suitcases, saw the portraits of the Führer and closed them up again. I watched hours of the grainy black-and-white films as he narrated in his apartment in Cambridge. Adams understood that totalitarian movements are built out of deep personal and economic despair. He warned that the flight of manufacturing jobs, the impoverishment of the American working class, the physical obliteration of communities in the vast, soulless exurbs and decaying Rust Belt, were swiftly deforming our society. The current assault on the middle class, which now lives in a world in which anything that can be put on software can be outsourced, would have terrified him. The stories that many in this movement told me over the past two years as I worked on “American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America” were stories of this failure—personal, communal and often economic. This despair, Adams said, would empower dangerous dreamers—those who today bombard the airwaves with an idealistic and religious utopianism that promises, through violent apocalyptic purification, to eradicate the old, sinful world that has failed many Americans.
These Christian utopians promise to replace this internal and external emptiness with a mythical world where time stops and all problems are solved. The mounting despair rippling across the United States, one I witnessed repeatedly as I traveled the country, remains unaddressed by the Democratic Party, which has abandoned the working class, like its Republican counterpart, for massive corporate funding. The Christian right has lured tens of millions of Americans, who rightly feel abandoned and betrayed by the political system, from the reality-based world to one of magic—to fantastic visions of angels and miracles, to a childlike belief that God has a plan for them and Jesus will guide and protect them. This mythological worldview, one that has no use for science or dispassionate, honest intellectual inquiry, one that promises that the loss of jobs and health insurance does not matter, as long as you are right with Jesus, offers a lying world of consistency that addresses the emotional yearnings of desperate followers at the expense of reality. It creates a world where facts become interchangeable with opinions, where lies become true—the very essence of the totalitarian state. It includes a dark license to kill, to obliterate all those who do not conform to this vision, from Muslims in the Middle East to those at home who refuse to submit to the movement. And it conveniently empowers a rapacious oligarchy whose god is maximum profit at the expense of citizens. We now live in a nation where the top 1 percent control more wealth than the bottom 90 percent combined, where we have legalized torture and can lock up citizens without trial. Arthur Schlesinger, in “The Cycles of American History,” wrote that “the great religious ages were notable for their indifference to human rights in the contemporary sense—not only for their acquiescence in poverty, inequality and oppression, but for their enthusiastic justification of slavery, persecution, torture and genocide.”
His critique of the prominent research universities, along with the media, was no less withering. These institutions, self-absorbed, compromised by their close relationship with government and corporations, given enough of the pie to be complacent, were unwilling to deal with the fundamental moral questions and inequities of the age. They had no stomach for a battle that might cost them their prestige and comfort. He told me, I suspect half in jest, that if the Nazis took over America “60 percent of the Harvard faculty would begin their lectures with the Nazi salute.” But this too was not an abstraction. He had watched academics at the University of Heidelberg, including the philosopher Martin Heidegger, raise their arms stiffly to students before class.
Two decades later, even in the face of the growing reach of the Christian right, his prediction seems apocalyptic. And yet the powerbrokers in the Christian right have moved from the fringes of society to the floor of the House of Representatives and the Senate. Forty-five senators and 186 members of the House before the last elections earned approval ratings of 80 to100 percent from the three most influential Christian right advocacy groups—the Christian Coalition, Eagle Forum, and Family Resource Council. President Bush has handed hundreds of millions of dollars in federal aid to these groups and dismantled federal programs in science, reproductive rights and AIDS research to pay homage to the pseudo-science and quackery of the Christian right.
The radical Christian right, calling for a “Christian state”—where whole segments of American society, from gays and lesbians to liberals to immigrants to artists to intellectuals, will have no legitimacy and be reduced, at best, to second-class citizens—awaits a crisis, an economic meltdown, another catastrophic terrorist strike or a series of environmental disasters. A period of instability will permit them to push through their radical agenda, one that will be sold to a frightened American public as a return to security and law and order, as well as moral purity and prosperity. This movement—the most dangerous mass movement in American history—will not be blunted until the growing social and economic inequities that blight this nation are addressed, until tens of millions of Americans, now locked in hermetic systems of indoctrination through Christian television and radio, as well as Christian schools, are reincorporated into American society and given a future, one with hope, adequate wages, job security and generous federal and state assistance. The unchecked rape of America, which continues with the blessing of both political parties, heralds not only the empowerment of this American oligarchy but the eventual death of the democratic state and birth of American fascism. Previous item: Annie Nelson on the 'Fuel That Doesn't Kill Us' Next item: Will the Big States Please Stand Up? Elsewhere: . CommentsAre you a Truthdig member yet? Login now, or register with Truthdig.
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By morgan-lynn lamberth skeptic griggsy, March 23, 2007 at 12:12 pm # Skruff , right . I meant serious child abuse. My computer is my higer power . I lacked faith for awhile: I thought that my higer power had abandoned me and thought that was why I was so listless and not wanting to use it . But the power came through -hallelujah !I am saved! Once saved, always saved .
By Skruff, March 23, 2007 at 5:32 am # Comment #59915 by morgan lamberth on 3/22 at 11:19 am claims: “Child abuse -the rod- is prohibited” Wish it were so Ms Lamberth. BUT from Blue Blue Maine to Red Red Mississippi, Children may be subjected to corporal punishment. Many from their teachers as well as their parents. The standard in Maine (for example) is that corporal punishment for discipline may not leave bruises or abrasions which last more than 10 days. BY The Way.... The passage in the Bible allowing use of “rod” is a King James variation. The passage origionally used “shaft” the shaft was a sheep’s crook, used to lead, not to hit.
By John Hanks, March 22, 2007 at 7:54 pm # Basically, enlightened people are prejudiced against every pack of humans. It is not our duty to pretend that anyone is particularly worthwhile or virtuous. Most Americans have lower middle class values because those values have become a national dogma which is constantly reinforced by the media. Lower middle class values are a direct descendant of peasant values. They are described in numerous sociology texts. The corrupt everything that is decent in this society and they breed a climate of endless lies and dishonesty. They are one of the worst tyrannies ever devised.
By John Hanks, March 22, 2007 at 5:15 pm # We must tax all the manifestations of lower middle class human waste. That means the bogus blockhead churches as well.
By morgan lamberth, March 22, 2007 at 11:19 am # Skruff , no ,not back then . Nowadays they use ours if they reason about morality and not go by those horrible morals of yore.Oh, many now still follow that nonsense , harming others .Certainly, the religious right does wrong , but even its members use ours iff they reason with facts, not their tastes .That is , slavery is gone pretty much .Women have more rights.There is less sexual repression. Child abuse -the rod- is prohibited .Contrary to traditionalists , we are more moral now.There has been moral progress.
By John Hanks, March 22, 2007 at 10:03 am # Which is worse? Mainstream religions get their strength from their character as cults. If they ever saw God, they would shoot him, her, or it on sight. On the other hand, enlightened religions are basically physical cowards. They allow the “religious” abuses to go on without picketing a single catholic church, a synagogue, or a fundamentalist church. It takes 20 suckers to support a crook, and it takes 50 lazy cowards to support both.
By Skruff, March 22, 2007 at 6:55 am # Comment #59697 by morgan-lynn lamberth on 3/21 at 10:06 am Ana right to an extent. I do however, object to their silly doctines. But most religious people most of the time act morally as we,using our humanist morality The Spanish inquisition and this is the short list. Christians more moral than whom?
By morgan-lynn lamberth, March 21, 2007 at 10:06 am # Ana right to an extent. I do however, object to their silly doctines. But most religious people most of the time act morally as we,using our humanist morality !
By Ana, March 20, 2007 at 9:23 pm # I find no problems with the Christian (or almost any other) religion when it is kept at just that, religion. My problem (and rightly so) begins when religious beliefs become law--especially when such beliefs replace or interfere with science. I have seen that happening in this country and feel sick. It is so sad to watch our country move backwards, to see people fight to take away another’s civil rights, and all the while claiming they are doing it in the name of God. I thought we were founded on seperation of church and state, and that it was those crazy Taliban-run countries that based their laws on religion? Again, I have no problems with the Christian religion. I have serious problems when religious beliefs start leaking into legislation, as they have so clearly begun to do already (gay marriage, stem cell research, “intelligent design”, etc). It is disgusting to have scientific fact dismissed and replaced by religious theory. (As our president has proudly done with the introduction of “intelligent design”. That may be what he believes, but who the hell is he to demand that his belief be taught to every child in America? Who is he to force the dismissal of years and years of scientific fact? ) The act of doing so gives way to a very slippery slope. Making religion into law. Hmmm...I wonder how the Taliban got started?
By IRQ Conflict, March 14, 2007 at 5:02 am # Why does anybody give any credence to this liar? You would be best served to research people before taking any of his tripe to heart. He is nobody. http://herbertsobel.blogspot.com/2005/03/open-letter-t o-chris-hedges.html http://www.rrstar.com/localnews/your_community/rockfor d/20030520-4814.shtml
By Skruff, March 13, 2007 at 9:56 am # Comment #58226 by John Hanks on 3/12 at 7:54 pm says: “I am prejudiced against lower middle class values, but not lower middle class people. The American way of life is lower middle class with its infantile infatuation with symbols and not substance, its inability to compare and contrast, and its perpetual anger and condescension toward anyone who enjoys lively conversation, reads good books, or writes a letter to the editor.” I don’t know what stereotypical “lower-middle-class-values” you mean. The values you suggest below might belong to William Randolph Hurst, John D Rockefeller, or any number of VAnderbildts. My friends who live in trailers, three-decker walk-ups, and pre-built trac-homes have values as different from each-others as they are from thefolks listed above. Some even embrace loyalty to family and friends, a desire to see their children achieve more, and a a strong work ethic. Come on John, admit your bigotry and use “trailer-trash” & “swamp-nigger” in your posts… I understand what you are saying....even if you do not.
By John Hanks, March 12, 2007 at 7:54 pm # I am prejudiced against lower middle class values, but not lower middle class people. The American way of life is lower middle class with its infantile infatuation with symbols and not substance, its inability to compare and contrast, and its perpetual anger and condescension toward anyone who enjoys lively conversation, reads good books, or writes a letter to the editor. This is the fertile soil for every sort of monstrosity from fundamentalism to fascism to nazism and to corporate media culture. To keep lower middle class values, you have to fight every day to ignore and stay away from the facts and ideas that determine our increasingly pathetic destiny.
By Skruff, March 12, 2007 at 11:44 am # Comment #57750 by John Hanks the scribe writes: “Democracy was born of the enlightenment, not of Christianity. Christianity did contribute to the rise of individualism by emphasizing the fate of the individual soul. However the naval gazing aspect of Christianity has always made it subject to every sort of crook. Fear fuels every protection racket and especially the fear of the unknown or punishment in the hereafter. The rise of modern fundamentalism paralleled the rise of the lower middle class, which is fearful and angry at everything that is unfamiliar.” There is no democratic country in the world today. These united states have never been a democratic country. Ben Franklin, when asked told a citizen that we had “A republic if we can keep it” No democracy would allow a party system like ours, an electorial college, or a senate system based on geography rather than a one man one vote system. Wyoming had a population of 509,204 Vermont had a population of 621,394 Both statea have 3 electors a system which disenfranches over 100,000 Vermont citizens. That isn’t anywhere near “democracy” and it doesn’t matter how many “enlightened folks” say it is. Second, I suppose some “lower middle class folk” are the angry zenophobic people you contend they are. I worked on the textile looms ($1.45-an-hour in 1969) in Lawrence with the most wonderful “lower-middle-class folk” They shared everything they had, they laughed, joked, cried and questioned the concept of “god” just as “the enlightened” few do on this board. I seriously doubt that the inner-city black folks (who vote almost as a solid Democratic block) fit your classification either. Or the native folks who occasionally pray to a different diety. No, I think your concept is repulsive and wrong. I would hope you reconsider.
By morgan -lynn lamberth skeptic grigssy, March 12, 2007 at 7:16 am # Hanks, except for the bit about the lower middle class, I do agree with you. Their egos are so tied into the supernatural or the paranormal , that they feel they would lose a friend or source of help , if they changed .It will take emotions to help them overcome their superstition .Anyway, most are just fine .But we do have to take on these Christianists, faith -healers and frauds . Bizby ,can you add anything? I applaud my fellow skeptics .
By John Hanks, March 9, 2007 at 9:27 pm # Democracy was born of the enlightenment, not of Christianity. Christianity did contribute to the rise of individualism by emphasizing the fate of the individual soul. However the naval gazing aspect of Christianity has always made it subject to every sort of crook. Fear fuels every protection racket and especially the fear of the unknown or punishment in the hereafter. The rise of modern fundamentalism paralleled the rise of the lower middle class, which is fearful and angry at everything that is unfamiliar.
By morgan -lynn lamberth skeptic grigssy, March 9, 2007 at 3:59 pm # I abjure all thought control movements. I do not care for the supernatural and the paranormal, despite my schizotypy. I objurate faith healing and religious fraud. I find that most of those who engage in the supernatural and the paranormal do fine .I think that most fundamentalists would not follow the Dominionists!
By susan 28, March 8, 2007 at 1:02 pm # #56754 by Moe Hare “CIA missionaries”. Moe, the linked article goes into that in full detail - the pastor of Antipas Ministries, from whose site that article was taken, is a Vietnam vet and former intelligence pro who is also an evqangelical preacher, whose ministry is dedicated (among other things) to exposing the Dominionist movement for what it is, so he speaks from experience in both realms. the site details the whole history of the movement from its inception to modern day, citing missionary use in political terorrism in Haiti, Latin America and elsewhere. there are literally hundreds of articles, all useful in and of themselves but because he’s a preacher all include biblical references to back up their claims that the Christian Right is an apostate (heretical) movement, and ties it directly to the Antichrist in Revelations, for those who put stock in that, as well as to debunk the Right’s claims that “Godless liberals” are the Antichrist; he clearly shows that the Abtichrist as described will emerge from the Christian church itself (the False Messiah, who will not be overtly anti-Christian but rather will masquerade as Christian and preach “global unity under Christ” - not UN secularism) when it will be corrupted by an alliance with “the Beast”, which will be a singular superpower with hegemonic military might ("who can make war with her?”, etc). i must say that the parallel is startling. it’s disturbing enough to me as an agnostic (who was raised Catholic and had years of Bible study) but to true believers it should be downright horrifying. worth a read for everyone, but i warn it’s not for the squeamish or those who prefer to cling to the notion that “it can’t happen here”.. *sigh* it’s like watching a trainwreck in slow motion, only from *inside* the train..
By morgan -lynn lamberth skeptic grigssy, March 8, 2007 at 9:28 am # Surely, we have to have a consensus ! We should agree on the fundamentals that murder,rape,slavery and theft are wrong and that altruism is right against Ayn Rand .Our morality follows Jeremy Bentham in using the pleasure -pain principle and moralists who have adviocated the silver or golden rules. We discern what is good or bad for humans , other animals and the enviornment.In that sense , morality embraces objective values . It is provisional and debateable. It is contextual, not absolute or relative. We do have to free ourselves of presentism or ethnocentrism , but I think ours is valid for all persons at all times taking those two measures into account. I favor the Nanny State to take care of our welfare when private measures lack as they sorely do .Others can debate that . Fine, but we do so with reason and facts. I recommnend Michael Shermer’s “ The Science of Right and Wrong”, Paul Kurtz’s “Forbidden Fruit “ Michael Martin’s “Atheism , Morality and Meaning” and RIchard Robinson’s “An Atheist Values.” for atheist defenses of morality .
By Moe Hare, March 4, 2007 at 7:35 pm # Susan, you forgot to mention the special CIA missionaries.
By susan28, March 3, 2007 at 10:08 pm # #53928 by Skruff “My father believes that missionaries aare sent to other countries to make them safe for capitalism”. PAT ROBERTSON, ROBERTO D’AUBUISSON & THE DEATH SQUADS everything you ever wanted to know about American “missionary” work but were scared sh*tless to ask.. and this article is by a group of fundamentalist evengelicals, mind you. they’ve been there and back with these people and aren’t afraid to name names. they take the whole movement apart bolt by bolt. the site is just mindblowing. even *i* was shocked and i thought i’d heard it all. brave folks.
By John Hanks, February 17, 2007 at 5:37 pm # I think some of my posts have not been passed on. The point I always try to make is the it is not our morals that are at fault for the mess we are in. Our institutions must be blamed instead. Neocons, and religionists of all sorts have launched a direct assault on our schools, government, courts, media, etc. with little understanding or resistance. A lower middle class society that is constantly pandered by a media that exploits lower middle class values cannot stand outside of the box and see these right-wing traitors for what they are.
By John Hanks, February 17, 2007 at 1:27 pm # Nazis, Neocons, Religionists, etc. all have one thing in common. They reify (sp) ideas so that self-serving abstractions (ie master race) are real. They believe that they have a right to lie, cheat, steal and even kill to further some inherently impossible agenda. They are extremely dangerous because they are criminals. I would like to have them spending the rest of their lives in Leavenworth and on the net so people can tune in and see just how ordinary most criminals are.
By Skruff, February 17, 2007 at 11:14 am # Comment #54097 by morgan lynn lamberth on 2/17 at 1:54 am “… we have always had the moral sense,but it is a matter of developing it to be world wide in scope; for the world...” What is “morality” and how do you define it across cultures? What is “moral” to me, may be immoral to you. I, for an instance, do not believe in “charity” I believe is a “natural selection” way of propigating the race. I believe in “Commonwealth” over Statehood, What’s moral? What’s not? Don’t we have to have a consensus before we export it?
By morgan lynn lamberth, February 17, 2007 at 1:54 am # I was peluccid[quite clear.]I am a college graduate whose English professors did not object to my syntax. I could read better as I was only two years better than my peers . One more point to my economic points: unions could play a more vibrant role in the new social contract. Now please everyone, get onto the subject : how do we oppose the Christianists? Would public service ads work? Christianist quotes on billboards ? It might help to have the more tolerant fundamentalists sound out that they ,too, oppose the Christianists. Most of the fundamentalists do not want the Biblical version of law .Willian, good points.And the golden rule was taught long before Yeshua .No fingers in the sky gave us morality; we have always had the moral sense,but it is a matter of developing it to be world wide in scope; for the world is our neighbor.
By Skruff, February 16, 2007 at 3:37 pm # Comment #54031 by Jeff Badura on 2/16 at 1:56 pm says “we live in a culture that has the highest standard of living in the history of mankind point blank so step back and smell the roses don’t let others filthy wealth discourage you from enjoying your relatively good existence !!” You’re right Jeff, the conversation has gone stale. I’m glad you have a good life, and believe all others in the US share your good fortune. About that last....You’re wrong… but I’ll never convince you! I really wish you could see the trailer park a bit east of Machias. Little children about seven and eight play in the stacks of garbage heaped to the rear of the park. the cracked windows are stuffed with rags and the whole place stinks (especially in the winter) because an open sewer runs down next to the trailers to the lake-sized cesspool off to the side. The parents in this park often use drugs, including alcohol, and they don’t seem to have much ambition, BUT wwhat about the children? Do they deserve an existance like this because of their bad luck? Pine Ridge in South Dakota is another place which looks (and smells) more like the third-world than here where wealth lives. But who cares about Indians? maybe that education you plan to obtain will open your eyes.
By Jeff Badura, February 16, 2007 at 1:56 pm # hello all !!! - from the soapbox of, Da IllGramaticus KneeO’Kaun
By morgan -lynn lamberth, February 16, 2007 at 9:41 am # I stand unchallenged.We receive outsourcing also !Our use of machinery as Einstein long ago observed makes us the top dog .If we had the European social contract , our workers wouldn’t suffer.So,I stand with those unemployed workers !Don’t fault trade with no argument ! Textile jobs benefitted workers of South Carolina against those of Massachusetts; now it is Chineses workers in textiles who benefiT. Push for a new social contract .We have less unemployment than Europe, so Europe needs to get a better employment enviornment.We certainly indeed need to press the Chinese government to give the citizens a new liberal social contract as far as they can do so, step by step . I am with Sen . Charles Schumer to get the Chinese to buy more from us. Do not forget the export workers who stand to gain from free trade. A serious discusssion is in order, not my villification .Now we must oppose the Christianists ! That is the subject at hand.How do others challenge them ? As a naturalist, I will unite with others to oppose them through civil liberties groups. We need to oppose mightily the Roushdoonies !
By Jeff Badura, February 16, 2007 at 6:38 am # thanks Terry Sloth for pointing that out !! i didn’t know i was grammatically challenged??? i thought we were discussing history, politics and religious philosophy and global economies??? whats the population of Pakistan? whats the unemployment rate in the USA? whats the difference between Christian zealots and Islamic extremist’s and what is a Nazi??? that’s what we are talking about?? i thing the diction class is on another site, you might have sent your post to the wrong place? must not have anything intelligent to say about the topics so you need to point out spelling errors???
By Skruff, February 16, 2007 at 5:43 am # Interesting that a article entitled “christianists of the march” has evolved to a discussion about wages, and profits. My father believes that missionaries aare sent to other countries to make them safe for capitalism. SO, maybe the discussion hasn’t “evolved” at all. maybe God, religion, and particularly xtianity have always been about money!
By Polly Ester, February 15, 2007 at 6:46 pm # This article explains why it is imperative for the U.S. to rethink their policies on economics, globalization and energy consumption: http://www.petrodollarwarfare.com “Revitalize the US Manufacturing Base with Energy Reconfiguration. Alan Greenspan, the former chairman of the Federal Reserve, gave Americans the peculiar impression that it does not matter where American products are made, as long as people can continue to buy them. Nothing could be further from the truth. The loss of over 3 million US manufacturing jobs since 2000 has led to decreased real income, growing personal debt, and record numbers of personal bankruptcies. A superpower that loses its manufacturing base will not be a major power for very long. The most viable careers in the 21st century will likely revolve around the “green” job sector. The US must substantially invest in alternative/sustainable-energy technologies, and other export sectors to gradually but earnestly move the economy from a trade deficit back to a trade account surplus. This will take decades, but the imperative for large-scale domestic energy reconfiguration projects and the deployment of alternative energy would provide the US with new employment opportunities that would be safe from overseas outsourcing, while also enhancing our long-term national security.”
By John Hanks, February 15, 2007 at 5:04 pm # We have been plagued with Fundamentalists, Zionists, Moonies and other bogus religious movements almost forever. Most of them are criminally subversive and their leaders belong in Leavenworth for sedition and treason. As long as liberals and progressives continue to insist on saving their souls and providing a good example, they will be fighting crooks with one arm tied behind their back. When dealing with this kind of lower middle class filth anger is a waste of time. Only a continuous black hatred will do. These people are criminals. They are not moral actors. They are deaf to any human appeal.
By Terry Sloth, February 15, 2007 at 4:51 pm # Morgan-Lynn and Jeff, I think you both mentioned that you’re going back to college to improve your employment opportunities, let me suggest two college classes that will be helpful--reading comprehension and expository writing. After reviewing your comments, it is quite clear that both of you have difficulty expressing yourselves in a literate fashion. English classes could enhance your chances of obtaining a higher position. However, nothing is guaranteed since we do live in a global, competitive, and “non-protectionist” economy, so it is very possible, that a worker in China or India will have a far superior command of the English Language—-that’s life.
By Anne, February 15, 2007 at 3:54 pm # Jeff (and Morgan)
By Skruff, February 15, 2007 at 12:57 pm # Comment #53773 by morgan -lynn lamberth on 2/15 at 10:15 am says: “Protectionism is nothing more than anti-competiveness” It is hard to be civil to folks who advocate the abandonment of the American worker in favor of the nameless hords abroad. When you speak of “competiveness” you fail to mention that workers in China are often paid in rice and live in prison cells. How can an American worker “compete” with someone who has no expenses? So while you sell us out in the name of “social justice” maybe you should find out what type of “justice” exists where we are exporting jobs. AND while you are at it, you might wish to visit Lawrence Massachusetts, Patterson New Jersey, or Gary Indiana and tell the displaced workers attempting to feed their (American)children how they can cut their wages enough to compete with chinese prisoners.
By morgan -lynn lamberth, February 15, 2007 at 10:15 am # Protectionism is nothing more than anti-competiveness , the protection of some at the expense of the majority.We need to sell more and buy more abroad to up wages and buying power. That is modern history . As Dr. Paul Krugman notes , we need an industrial policy for workers .Buying from your neighbor or from Beijing is the same thing .Without government involvement , there is economuc royalism; with, there is fairness, Americanism.Pat Choate, Pat Buchanan and Lou Dobbs’s solutions would beggar us .Americanism- fair play for all- is the ultimate solution!Protectionism is just like saying it is your money in arguing for tax cuts when social needs arise- it just does not work !
By Jeff Badura, February 15, 2007 at 9:13 am # Hello Eleanore yes you are correct we do not share the same world view !! i understand your point about some aren’t ready able or willing to go to college and your right, but unfortunately in today’s hi-tech world those who do not wish to further there education are doomed to a more sparse existence than those that do !!(im going back and im an old man) we have to face facts and change with the times!! American labor has gotten really out of hand i don’t think it would ever be feasible to buy 200 dollar shoes, or the like that it would cost if things were made here in the USA!! just look at whats happening in Detroit to see the mess we are in!! the planet is getting smaller every day so globalization ans outsourcing is a fact we have to deal with and adjust too!! regardless of our world views!! and no, if the cost of the medicated food for one on my many animals was to increase 100% to 200% he would die because unfortunately i could not afford to keep him alive at those costs!! when ever possible i do buy American and if the entire country agreed to cut off all foreign trade and be protectionist than maybe i would patriotically join in but you know that will never happen!! but as i say over and over things aren’t that bad we have it pretty good so don’t fret we will all be okay in the end (economically at least) PS not to cast this barb at you but have you ever noticed that a bi-coastal smug liberal wouldnt be caught dead in a American made car??
By morgan lynn lamberth, February 14, 2007 at 8:42 pm # I should have stated PPI[Progressive Policy Institue, arm of centrist liberal Democratic Leadership Council.] What the study there states is that our our companies and laborers beat the cheap manufactures with tools.So, it is just the old story of innovation making for fewer jobs after all, not cheap labor itself.As always , new jobs open up elsewhere.That is where the Europeans do well: they have worker protections . Did cheap Japanese and Korean goods do us in? No, we were better at producing other goods- comparative advantage or we competed well with them .Their wages have gone up ! As far as college and tech, many just cannot handle them alright. Yes, they can do better otherwise ! What societal aid do others advocate for displaced workers ?
By Eleanore Kjellberg, February 14, 2007 at 6:44 pm # Jeff, it is obvious that we do not share the same world view—-yes, everyone should have the best education possible, but not everyone as the academic ability to attend college. Not everyone is capable, that’s just reality. The entire U.S. population will not attend college; those with academic limitations should not be inhibited from obtaining a good paying job. Blue collar and manufacturing jobs, should not be arrogantly viewed as occupations not worthy of Americans, but only worthy of laborers in India, China and Indonesia. Historically these manufacturing jobs were unionized, paying excellent wages and providing good Yes, times have changed, not to the benefit of American workers, times have changed because both Democrats and Republicans no longer represent the working-class, they only represent the “corporatocracy”–-passing NAFTA and WTO and other such legislation, obliging multinationals who incessantly lobby politicians for favors. We are all sick of hearing that third world populations are doing jobs that Americans won’t do—-that’s another lie. Americans will take these jobs, but they want a decent wage and benefits. BTW, Jeff, thousands of white-collar computer positions are being outsourced-—it’s called off-shore outsourcing. So even if all Americans obtain a college degree, they are economically doomed, unless legislation is enacted to protect American employment--establishing tariffs, making it no longer quite so attractive to hire third world workers. So maybe Americans need to cut-back on their consumption, buy fewer cheap items, and purchase items manufactured by American
By John Hanks, February 14, 2007 at 4:40 pm # The American people consists of three groups. There are the crooks,the suckers, and the lazy cowards. Lower middle class religions consist of crooks and suckers. The rest of the people (with authentic religion) consist of lazy cowards.
By John Hanks, February 14, 2007 at 4:23 pm # Lower middle class religion reflects the values of the lower middle class. It grovels before economic and political authority (just as it once defended slavery). It makes up lies and then believes them. It despises wisdom and learning. And ultimately it resorts to force and/or fraud to get its way. Jesus rightly despises them as blockheads and phonies. They are almost totally devoid of any genuine religious, moral, or honest impulse.
By morgan -lynn lamberth, February 14, 2007 at 12:14 pm # Check out the Center for Progress to see that out-sourcing is not the problem.Trade aids the poor. What we need is give the lay offs job retraining and interim incme as Europeans get.
By Jeff Badura, February 14, 2007 at 11:21 am # Dear Eleanor and Anne!! hello ladies i do enjoy your banter but lets be real ?? FYI- i am lower-lower middle class my 32,000/35,000 a yr is low for the urban area, i do live in, but i don’t want to give to much info away, in case I’m looking for a job?? don’t want a hateful so called lib to blackball me when they google my name? and see I’m a proud neo-con !!! so i cant tell you guys all? but I’m no christian i told you before, i don’t go to church i don’t even believe in a judging god, i think religion is one of the biggest problems the world faces but i have to be fair too!! just because I’m no christian bible thumper doesn’t mean that Christians are on a par with the crazies in the middle east or with Nazis !! that’s simply foolish ignorant talk !! Eleanor your stats are way off !! you statement that our country had a 30% rate of workers in the USA earning poverty wage is just wrong !!! if that was the case it would show up in the streets and at the ballot box we have a steady 11% or 13% poverty rate just google poverty and after you weed through all the third world horrible real poverty! then you might find the US numbers and its about 11 to 13 % as far as economics are concerned I’m not apologizing for corporate greed in American, but times change ,its no longer profitable for America labor to be manufacturing goods that can be sold on the world market !! we have become a white collar nation we outsource our labor to the developing world !!! that’s not going to change ladies and in the big picture that is progress for in the end it will improve the “real” poverty of the world in those countries !! walmart and the such are careers for only the handful of white collar management, the rest are entry level service jobs, and that’s just the way it is !!! i have had many bad experiences with tyrannical bosses! I’m fully aware that corporations can be mean to there employee’s, but this is a free country, if you don’t like a job !! quit !! go to school, start a new career, move to a more prosperous area of the country (i did ) we live in a free capitalist society, not a socialist workers utopia that only exists in the mind or dreamers!! every time a nation has tried Marx’s ideas it hasn’t happened as planed !! with out the sin of greed, there is no progress!! our system works !! it really does !! we might cry about not having this or that, but the things we really need we have in abundance! we are are really rich in any historical context !! we have food, water, lodging, clothing,heat, medical (no one is turned away from the emergency room or the county health care facilities, so yes, we have medical too) history, is the only fair judge of our current society, for humans are inherently dissatisfied !! we live into our early 80’s our biggest problem right now is obesity? and i think that says it all, our gluttony is our problem not the lack of goods !!! yes, the rich are getting richer,(so what) but the middle class has stayed roughly around the same, a kid getting out of high school today has to go to college and not the factory if he wants to succeed in life, but like i said times change!! so ladies, i say to both of you, go to walmart buy some flowers and smell the roses !!! living in the USA ain’t as bad as you progressives make it out to be !! (glass half full vs half empty) PS- say a prayer for George Bush, he needs your help and support to bomb Iran !!
By Anne, February 14, 2007 at 12:03 am # Hi Jeff, Long time no see,
By Eleanore Kjellberg, February 13, 2007 at 4:24 pm # Jeff is an expert on $10.00 per hour wage earners—-Jeff’s income is about $30,000 a Perhaps you’re involved with too many bible study groups; mythology is beginning to affect your judgment. It’s nice to know that your cat can find a cheap meal—-but feeding your cat does not justify the exploitation of workers. CEOS are making more than 450 times the salary of an average “But our capitalist system has worked very well for all of us, you live in a country with the highest standards of living ever (last 60 yrs) in the history of mankind so it must be working!!” Jeff, you have assumed the role of apologist for multi-national corporations, who have no loyalty to any country; in fact globalization allows them to avoid taxes in the U.S. and in the country where they manufacture their junk. “The truth of the matter is that in the ‘booming economy’ of this, the richest country on earth, 30 percent of American workers earn poverty or near-poverty wages because the minimum wage has not kept pace with inflation and we have lost millions of decent-paying manufacturing jobs. Low-wage American workers are now the lowest-paid in the industrialized world. In this nation of ‘’family values,’’ more than 20 percent of our children live in poverty.” Jeff—-take time off from reading the bible, and start to read non-fiction books about the economy--start with “Nickel and Dimed,” by Barbara Ehrenreich.
By Jeff Badura, February 13, 2007 at 2:06 pm # Mr Skruff did you read the next line in that comment?? i said some are going to point out dictator’s we are dealing with to point out the supposed hypocrisy of the statement, and you did!! as i said Skruff one dictatorship one despot at a time !! some might say that dealing with China is opening them up from the inside (i don’t always agree) and that economic freedoms will bring social freedoms, the point was, that Bush had made it, for the first time in our history due to the Neo-cons, the stated policy of the USA, that we would or should no longer be placating dictators at the guise of a false security!! that had never been said so like that before !! you guys can nit pick my words, and turn them around, cut and paste them like Micheal Moore, to your liking, but the facts are still the facts!! and no one is happy about having to deal with the Saudi’s or China? but one thing at a time! Skruff look at the big picture !! would you have us do nothing? because we cant topple the government of China? so we should just give up, retreat from the world stage cause we cant change the whole planet tomorrow?? and pretend that Bush is the enemy? not despotism or Islamic extremist!! the logic of the left make no sense, its all complaint’s, some valid and some not, but zero solution !! its so cool to dump on your country?? with no solutions for a better future!! just blame the USA for everything and oppose anything the government tries to do !!! that’s the plan of the left !! and that’s why you get no real traction or respect nationally !!
By Jeff Badura, February 13, 2007 at 9:14 am # Eleanore FYI- at walmart medicated cat food cost 16 bucks !! at Main street pet store is 22 and they never have it in stock ??? if i had to rely on Main street my cat would die and or i would pay 33% more !! just so that our economy can stagnate !!
By Skruff, February 13, 2007 at 8:45 am # Comment #53105 by Jeff Badura on 2/12 at 9:20 am states: “Sorry John, your point blank wrong, a neo-con is simply a “new-conservative” its from a change in our attitudes toward foreign affairs were we no longer support the tyrannical dictators of the planet” You think? What about China’s dictator who has recieved Most Favorable trade status from three administrations (including the current one, although they no longer call it MFN)? What about Pakistan’s dictator who is ourr new best friend, even though his countrymen likely harbor Osama Bin Laden? How about our cozy relationship with the House of Saud, the Kuaiti Emirate, and our former enemy in Lybia? No, I believe the difference is now we support dictators for economic benefit, rather then political idology.
By Eleanore Kjellberg, February 12, 2007 at 5:46 pm # “second Wal-Mart does hurt Main St. yes, I will agree, but have you tired to shop on Main st ??? they have lots to be desired, and the prices are too high, and the stock is too low, and the hours are worse than banking hours !!! so Wal-Mart might not offer good health insurance ( a much bigger problem than just Wal-Mart- you can blame the retiring baby-boomer’s for sky rocketing health costs) but Wal-Mart doe save me 20 to 50 bucks a week on everything from clothing to cat food !! I know international mega corporations are frowned upon by the socialist left, but I’m sorry to say its called progress !!! the super grocery stores, the home depots, and the rest bring down costs and give much better service than Main street !!! times change, things change, you have to be flexible in the global marketplace or you fail? its that’s simple !!! it’s called capitalism !!! if your already angry at the notion of capitalism? you’re going to hate Wal-Mart, and the such, but so be it !!” Jeff, The fact that Jeff, can buy a few cheap “shmattehs” each weak, is all that is needed for him to formulate his economic assessment of multi-national corporations. As far as Jeff is concerned, the entire U.S. can look like one giant mall inundated |
Huckabee’s Major Misfire
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