Robert...thanx for this fabulous website…
http://www.BlackLds.org. I will forward it to my African American friends and others. The Mormons have built three temples in Africa so far (besides chapels)...in Nigeria, Ghana and So. Africa as you know and they only do this if there are enough members in an area to justify having a temple built in their midst.

There are still so many misconceptions and distortions out there about the Mormons and I guess that there always will be. Still, a candidates’ religion ‘is to have no bearing’ on his becoming a politician or Pres of the U.S. I can’t understand why some folks cannot grasp this. (o:

Robert -

I’m assuming that you’d also never vote for a Southern Baptist, given that their church was founded because of its support for slavery.  The church didn’t even apologize for its racist roots until 1995.

I know you’d love to believe that it’s true, but Mormons are not racist.  The vast majority of Mormons were embarassed about the church’s policy at the time and were extremely excited and relieved when it was changed.  Mormons still celebrate the date when the policy changed, even though the vast majority of Mormons today were not alive or were not members of the church when the policy was in effect.

http://www.blacklds.org/

There have been some very good Mormon politicians & some pretty bad ones, like every other religion. It think it depends on the person & their particular view of governing & how consistent they are in the policies they support. Do they have a pro business bias, or do they support regulation & fairness? How independent are they from policies the Mormon church favors? Can you trust they will do what they say they will do?  These are the same questions that should be asked of a cadidate of any religious faith.

YunginSpirit said:

Blues—you evidently don’t know the meaning of the word fascist/fascism, sorry. );

Well of course I know the various interpretations and semantic shades of that word. As a linguist, I know that words bear variable connotations in distinct contexts. The fascism of modern Mormonism derives from it’s insistence that people must be segregated on the basis of their material success. This is a deeply un-Christian stance. Remember, race is not the only thing that tears social discourse asunder. Present-day Mormons are strict Darwinians, who insist that folks who, say, wash cars of a living are predestined to the slums of Heaven. There is a powerful element of racism against blacks just behind the window dressing of current Mormonism. That could improve, but it is the state of that religion in the present. For now, this church operates as the de facto government in several areas of the US. And it is deeply bound to it’s own internal financial network.

Time Magazine, 5/1/00

But the Boy Scouts of America headquarters in Irving, Texas, is controlled by another faction in the debate, those for whom “morally straight” definitely means sexually straight. In recent years, members of the Mormon church have become a powerful force within scouting.

Today nearly 10% of the members of the Boy Scouts Advisory Council live in Salt Lake City, Utah, home of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter- day Saints. The Latter-day Saints constitute less than 2% of the U.S. population but 21% of the boys in the core Boy Scouts program, more than any other group.

The Latter-day Saints have been instrumental in helping defeat pro-gay initiatives in at least three states. [Actually, and technically speaking, they helped to pass anti-gay initiatives.] In 1995 Jack Goaslind Jr., a prominent church member who currently sits on the Scouts advisory council, said the church “would withdraw our charter membership” if scouting were required to admit gays.

I am a Buddhist who has lived the greater part of his adult life in northern Utah which is close to 98% LDS. Consequently, have met the full range of types, that run, wonder of wonders, just like humans all over the globe, from the magnifecent to the dastardly. Ever hear of the Bell Curve, folks? Well, strangely enough, the LDS are also not immune to it. Like Sherlock, they laugh, weep, have fun, go on picnics, just like us regular folks, plus have this remakable precept called “service” that they try to follow.

Anyway, the issue here is not so much the LDS but the nature and quality of presidential candidates ingeneral. I am afraid that this really is a reflection of our national character, made up of the weaknesses of each one of us: to wit we are drawn to the shallow, the corrupt, the hypocritical.

Perhaps that best describes the qualities of our own spirit, that we grasp so eagerly, time and again at such individuals: Kennedy, Nixon, Johnson, BushI ⅈ, Clinton, and ClintonII or Obama demagogues and traitors one and all.

So the interesting thing is not what these prejudices say about the LDS church but what they repeatedly reveal about the shallow scum we have become as a society, “salt that has lost its savor. fit only to be thrown out and trodden under foot.”

Considering the Church’s current policy on race and the Priesthood it is quite obvious that Bruce R. McConkie, the author of “Mormon Doctrine” was incorrect in his doctrinal opinion regarding race and holding the priesthood.  As an observer of history I have found it is always a mistake to judge people or institutions of the past for the opinions they held, which were popular, though incorrect, at the time.  Who knows what our children will judge us harshly for in a hundred and fifty years.

YunginSpirit, I can appreciate your cause, I really can, but living in Salt Lake City makes me fully aware of your delusion.  Robert Roberg has just illustrated nicely the foundations of your faith.  You simply cannot deny that.  Do I want a president whose faith if founded in such beleifs?  Who would?  As for 33% of your faith being minorities, I would challenge you to provide evidence for this stastic (NOT using LDS sources).  Good luck…

In the 1966 version of Mormon Doctrine it states:

“Negroes in this life are denied the priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty.  (Abra. 1:20-27.) The gospel message of salvation is not carried affirmatively to them (Moses 7:8, 12, 22).” Pg. 527

This is why I could never vote for a Mormon
http://www.lifeafter.org/terminology.asp

“The present configuration of the Mormons is that they are committed to fascist beliefs. They think that people that wash cars are no better than dogs, while corporate hot-shots are headed for a much cozier spot in heaven. That may well change in time. But at this moment, those are the nazi thoughts that they entertain. Mitt Romney has turned my Commonwealth of Massachusetts into a little spot of corrupt fascist hell. He is a typical modern Mormon fascist. Not all Mormons are fascists, bit 90% are convinced that fascism is the only decent philosophy. So a vote for Romney is a vote for fascism. By the way, they believe that black people are animals. Well 90% of them.”

Good grief.

Maybe the World Wide Web wasn’t such a good idea, after all.

So Bill Clinton claimed to be a Baptist and carried a Bible to church. Did it make any difference? How many of you discriminating liberals would reject Romney for his faith but not Bill Clinton?

Blues—you evidently don’t know the meaning of the word fascist/fascism, sorry. );

Jonathan—The Mormon Church is comprised of about 33% minorities. Almost 3 million people in Mexico and Central and South America and the Carribean are members. Not to mention more than 500k in the Phillipines. The country with the fastest growing LDS membership per capita is currently Africa. These numerous members are good and happy folk. So, vegetate on that my friend.

In the States there are Black congretations, Tongan, Spanish speaking, Samoan and Chineese, where anyone can attend. So you should check your facts ... preferably from the Church itself or people who have been member for some time. Mitt Romney did an equisite job as Gov of MA.

TomChicago—I see that you haven’t studied the history of your own country as you don’t know the true meaning of the “Separation of government and religion.” Do a google search and if you are diligent, you will find that all of our early Fathers and Leaders and many after them, prayed to God before and during meetings, had Bible study in the White House and other government buildings and insisted that the Bible and Jesus Christ be taught in schools (and this was done for several centuries). This great nation was founded on Christian principles.

Today, all of these important references about Christianity in government and the Bible being taught to our children are being taken out of our schools and hidden from them and the public by progressive socialists, liberals and GLBTs who seem to permeate the school system. They are endeavoring to change history and are succeeding incrementally. They want to get God and all things Christian out of the public domain so that they can live their lives without God’s Laws in the way and without conscience. (The beginning of anarchy.) “Separation of Church and State” was instituted for the protection of the Churches from government interference and to prevent a State Church being set up, like the national Church of England was set up by King Henry V111.

What I’d like South Park to do is tackle the factual absurdities underlying the entire Christian religion. While they’re at it they may as well tackle all other major religions one at a time. It’s kind of unfair of them to pick on only Mormons and Scientologists, when the only difference between them and traditional Christians is that traditional Christians’ ridiculous stories are a older. Thetans and gold tablets and aliens from space are silly, yes. So is walking on water.

I am a Mormon from Utah, and I would not vote for Mitt Romney---not because he is a Mormon, but because his politics suck.  Sure, he was successful with the 2002 Olympics, and he no doubt would be 100 times better than George W as our Chief Executive, and he is a handsome gentleman, but that does not qualify him to be President of the United States.  Just the fact that he is trying to change from a moderate into a conservative and court the likes of Falwell, et al, is enough for me to dismiss him.  If you were to look into his business practices before he became Governor of Massachussetts, you would find that he has very little concern for the working class of this country.  The choice for Republicans in the next election is dismal.  Maybe it is time to consider some of the more progressive Democrats this time.  Is this really the best we can do for our country?  I am sure that there are many Mormons who would be a great President---just not this one.

I have an idea, let’s go backing to worshipping Zeus, Venus and Mars and then we can all go live on Pluto, it’s no longer a planet; hence its real estate value might be down, so it might be a good time to buy, and build a new empire; think about it, Bush, Romney, or whoever could be Commander-in Chief of Pluto.

What I hope it says is that Americans have become more wary of the combination of religion and political power; that they are mistrustful of any hint of a dominionist trend.  Furthermore, who could trust a flip-flopper like Romney anyhow?

I’ve worked for Mormons, and my girlfriend has Mormon parents. Religions change in history. For example, the Islamic Spanish Moors were extremely liberal and tolerant. The majority of Muslims do not act like that at all in our time. Perhaps they will again. The present configuration of the Mormons is that they are committed to fascist beliefs. They think that people that wash cars are no better than dogs, while corporate hot-shots are headed for a much cozier spot in heaven. That may well change in time. But at this moment, those are the nazi thoughts that they entertain. Mitt Romney has turned my Commonwealth of Massachusetts into a little spot of corrupt fascist hell. He is a typical modern Mormon fascist. Not all Mormons are fascists, bit 90% are convinced that fascism is the only decent philosophy. So a vote for Romney is a vote for fascism. By the way, they believe that black people are animals. Well 90% of them. That could change, but it is not what they tend to believe presently. So voting for someone like Romney is like insuring someone with a reputation as an arsonist. It’s just the reality. I hope they will change this reality soon. But today, this is how it is.

Boggs, you are completley ignorant of the LDS Church. It’s sad and pathetic you would stoop to something so low.

The ignorance of the posters in this article is astounding. I wouldn’t vote for a president who represented many of the things that are listed here either. Fortunately, 99.99% of what’s been posted here against Mormons isn’t true.  I suppose that many of you are the same conspiracy theorists who believe that George Bush ordered the planes to be flown into the world trade center (and actually setup bombs to take the whole thing down).

If you’d spend as much time learning about the focus of Mormon beliefs as you do professing to be experts, you’ll find out that the beliefs of Mormons are no more irrational than those of any other religious group.

Pres Bush’s religion has never come into play during his administration accept for his sincere compassion for others...that’s all folks!

“We need to vote without fear of a candidates religious beliefs...unless he is Athiest or Muslim, in my view.”

Pretty much sums up the Mormon view of minorities.  Again why Romney shouldn’t and won’t win the Republican seat for president!

Voters are now concerned, frightened, and alarmed, more than in the past, about candidates’ religions partly because of Bush’s religiosity and his reckless actions, based, as he has said, upon his talking and listening to his god.

Thank God, the people have learned a bit of a lesson from this present “Evangelical” “chief decider.”
Everyone has to admit the idea behind mormonism is “lofty” to say the least.
However, the power of the Mormon church to raise money and purchase votes must not be underestimated.
They are probably the next wealthiest organization after the Catholics.
They are building up mountains of wealth on earth and for no reason other then to buy power!

Actually, watching South Park is a pretty good way of judging the comparative strengths and weaknesses of religions and philosophies. Even when their take makes me uncomfortable or even angry, the two guys who put that show together have an uncanny knack at picking out the absurdities, irrationalities and outright delusions we all sometimes fall victim to.

“You don’t even have to know which religion a politician belongs to know if you want to vote for him or her--just listen to their views and look at their records and use another part of your brain besides the reptilian fear base”

I.Greene,
The “reptilian” part of my brain knows three things—-separation of church and state is imperative—-Bush invaded Iraq obsessed with a Messianic mission to democratize the Middle East; and that your precious Mormon, Romney, who is running for President supports Bush’s “SURGE.”

So I think there is one more thing you should know—and that is--take your delusional religious ideology and shove it.

Danny Quintana… if you really are an Attorney, you should know that “a person’s religion should have no bearing on his running for office as president.” Therefore, your claim is highly suspect. You should also know that most Christian Churches reckon that only approx’ 7,000 yrs have elapsed from the time of Adam and Eve leaving Eden up to the present time. And BYW, I know that far-left dems and liberals have a penchant for the word fascism. I would suggest that you check out several dictionaries and educate yourself on the meaning of the word and then do an honest comparison with the LDS Church. You are way off base.

Dr. Knowitall...right, I’m not gay but I don’t mind the people at all. The good that Mitt has accomplished in MA in one term has been quite astounding. His final act before leaving office as Gov. was to ensure that the voices of more than 70% of the people who voted against gay marriage was heard and counted...by the Courts and by (a rogue) Congress. That’s the kind of leader we need. One who fearlessly acts for the people first and foremost and for good. More than 12 million Mormons can’t be wrong...lol!

Jerry...if the governent were to tax all Churches as businesses it would be a foolhardy decision. Cities and communities everywhere would lose out on millions of dollars of charitable donations, volunteerism and manpower help that is constantly in place. I don’t know of any Church that is supported in any way by Government monies...it’s against the law. Check your facts please.

jimbobuddy...sorry Buddy, but you evidently don’t know what you’re talking about. You obviously have had a negative experience or two with a member and just need to ‘forgive and forget’ and get on with your life. BYW, the LDS Church is the 4th most prominent Church in the Nation now, and the fastest growing through converts. True cults are smallish and they come and go and generally die off. Twelve million members and counting is not a cult...neither is Scientology, Jehovah’s Witness or RCC. We need to vote without fear of a candidates religious beliefs...unless he is Athiest or Muslim, in my view.

Jon… how old are you young man? I don’t watch cartoons but know of Southpark. Clever creators but they slander and denigrade many people and things that are good, just for a laugh. Not nice! Being on a website like “Truthdig” does not affect an LDS persons temple recommend. The Church is not controlling...everything is based on choice. Also, Romney’s religion never came into play, not once as MA Gov. Neither does the Church advise Orin Hatch, Bill Bennett, Harry Reid or other LDS in government positions on political matters. YunginSpirit

Prioritizing the questioning and questions puts the query ‘Why are our millions of grandparents paying twenty, thirty, fifty times more for their medications than grandparents say, a mile away in Canada; so that a dozen or few rich folks can own jets?’ before the consideration of a single wealthy Romney’s political future. The question: What has Romney’s Mormon religion contributed to his attitudes and efforts on behalf of those millions? Has it affected his allegiance to the Republican Party vs. that party’s tendency to protect the ones in the jets before the ones with the needs? Find the answers to those questions, among others, and you find the answer to whether America is cutting itself short by rejecting Romney for any reason.

Lamonte tells you that you’ll see women in leadership positions throught the Mormon church.  What Lamonte fails to mention is that the only “leadership” positions women hold are over other women and children under the age of 12. 

The one thing I hate about all of this is that it gives mormons another reason to feel “persecuted”, which they’ll wear like a badge of honor.  They believe god’s chosen people will endure endless persecution--so the more people say they won’t vote for a mormon, the more the mormons believe they’re the one and only true religion.

There is just as much evidence for the existence of Santa Claus as there is for the existence of God. 
Yet, at some point most people grow up and understand that Santa does not really exist.  They also make this intellectual leap with the Easter Rabbit and the Tooth Fairy, acknowledging that these are just stories for children.
So what keeps people believing in something when they know they’ve been lied to previously on 3 very important occassions?
Why don’t they simply dismiss the 4th BIG lie? 
Frankly, anyone who believes in religious dogma and decries scientific thought really isn’t intelligent enough to be the leader of the free world. 
George W. Bush being the prime example of that!

Eleanore Kjellberg said: 

“Save your sermons for the senseless; not everyone needs to navigate a maze of dreadfulness by sedating themselves with theological nirvana.”

Save yourself, Ellie! According to you and the other irrational conspiracy theorist posters here, the Mormon Boogymen are secretly plotting to come eat your children and steal your soul. 

Go ahead and substitute “Jews” or “Gays” for “Mormon” in all your statements and BING!!!! you are now revealed to be the very same bigots for whom you hold such contempt.

You don’t even have to know which religion a politician belongs to to know if you want to vote for him or her--just listen to their views and look at their records and use another part of your brain besides the reptilian fear base.

Yes Igreene, Jesus so called “teachings” are good instruction. That would be ‘forgiveness’ and a ‘do unto others’ doctrine, correct? Note, Igreene, and a few others here, that it is more than debatable where in fact these modern, and not all that well practiced, guidelines actually have originated.

So the point is, and I am taking some liberty to speak for many others here, that we are simply saying that people whom profess to believe in magic are not grounded. We same people are saying that we do not feel comfortable with those whom profess in magic and the like, regardless of which religious doctrine they ‘believe’ in by the way, to be in a position to determine public policy. The reasons should be clear.

Your heart is in the right place it appears to me Igreene. Let your mind go a little and it will be clear to you that we living people together can make this world a better place. You may already believe that but it is not clear from your criticism of ‘us’. Resorting to medieval fairy tales to justify anything, like a person’s integrity, for example, is not acceptable in a forward looking and responsible society.
We do not hate anybody. We should all hate ignorance however, especially since there is no excuse.

You don’t have control over your race or gender (among other things).

You have complete control over your silly-ass unsupported beliefs.

How about not voting for him because he is hypocritical opportunist of the first order (I’m a gay man, what about my civil rights?  Are they merely a political football?) as well as an empty suit.

Danny Quintana hit it on the head.  The problem with Mormonism, is that it is a relatively new cult (I mean religion).  With that in mind, pretty much everything the Mormons have done has been recorded in newspapers and literature.  That means that information like Joseph Smith being convicted of fraud is public information.  It seems that the Mormons choose to live in delusion, and that’s fine as long as they are fully aware that it is a choice to live in delusion.  Mitt Romney has absolutely no business (and won’t be) elected president no matter how much prayer you use. 
And are all of these Mormon posters daily readers of Truthdig?  If so, you know you’ll lose your temple recomend by reading “liberal” blogs!!!

“As for a Mormon candidate, watching South Park pretty much ended that as a possiblity for me.”

God help us if South Park has become the main source for education on religious beliefs for Americans.

As the first poster on this topic ,it’s interesting to see the other responses. A couple of points; all religion is irrational. That’s why it’s called ‘faith’.Many of you use that fact to equate ancient religions with more recent ones. REALLY? So the Heaven’s Gate cult is equivalent to Roman Catholicism? They’re either all equally valid, or all equally phoney, according to this flawed logic.. That’s a cop out. life is complex. You’re supposed to use that mass above your shoulders to discriminate between truth ,and bullshit. Religions dont get a pass on that ‘smell test’.
Ten years ago , I would have been among the posters here that have been cautiously defending Mormons, and Mitt Romney. However,since then, I’ve been in a position to get to know, and observe Mormons as they live and interact with a larger community of non-Mormons.On a superficial level they are some of the nicest people that I’ve ever met. But the truth is , that they have an unseen agenda. It’s all about creating your personal ‘Kingdom’, your own planet, in the afterlife. Bending your will to the dictates of the church elders is requisite. I have been lied to and betrayed , personally, by ‘respected’ Mormons in positions of leadership in this particular commuinity. I have personally witnessed the same malevolent behavior by other Mormons towards non-believers.
I do not ignore that sin - if I may label it as such - is a universal human failing. But , I’m telling you that the Mormon ‘system’ is different. It is done with full awareness of it’s negative impact on other people,who are not of their faith. There is an internal, self- justifying mechanism which allows them to say nice things to your face, and then -as a group - damage your reputation,cheat on their taxes, commit section 8 housing fraud, manipulate and betray their non- believer ‘friends’. These were not isolated incidents, nor were they limited to the same individuals, and they proceeded over a period of years.
I noted the litany of respected Mormon public servants in this country. But the presidency is different. George W Bush may, or may not have been a good Govenor of Texas. But he could not , in that capacity, ignite a devastating conflagration in the middle east and bring shame onto our country’s reputation. He had to be elected President of the United States to do that. Given my experience, I would not trust mitt Romney to place the protction of the U.S. Constitution above the interests of the Mormon Church.
I conclude that the Mormon church is an authoritarian cult.

I have no qualm with those who state that they oppose Mit Romney’s candidacy as a Mormon on grounds that they “never” vote for anyone who is “overly religious”, as long as that person has never at any time voted for Al Gore, Ralph Nader, George Bush, Bill Clinton, John Kerry, John Edwards, Bill Bradley or any other presidential candidate of note in recent history. Romney is no more “overly religious” as far as the public knows than any of those people. Somehow I doubt the Romney-bashers on this thread are truly that consistent in their anti-religion stance, however. Are Clinton and Gore idiots because they believe in burning bushes? Lovely Christian hypocrisy at its finest.

Sorry to the Mormon apologists, but I for one don’t buy it. I’m not Christian; I don’t believe Jesus even existed. But I can understand why some would still hold on to the belief that he did. The evidence is not clear.

But to believe that Joseph Smith found some tablets in the 19th century (hardly ancient history), tablets that no one has seen, is absurd. Anyone who believes that is at the very least horribly gullible. Joseph Smith was nothing but a con-man. We have seen many con-men of his ilk before and since, most notably L. Ron Hubbard.

Would I vote for a Scientologist? Absolutely not. When you can’t see through that load of bull for what it is, YOU DON’T HAVE THE RIGHT TO HOLD THE NUCLEAR CODES.

I see no reason to give L.D.S. any more respect that I give the Church of Scientology, for the same reasons: it should be possible for both cults to demonstrate their claims to at least a minimal extent: LDS should be able to produce the tablets, and the Church of Scientology should be able to point to the star around which Xenu’s planet was. Both should be willing to put their claims to the test.

When it comes to Christianity, unfortunately, we can’t expect documentary evidence to have survived intact to this day. So evidence must be indirect. But in the case of extraordinary claims made by MODERN cults, we should be much more demanding.

So, no, Mr Romney should not be allowed to become president. The question should really be whether Mr Romney shouldn’t be put in an insane asylum. That’s what we would do to anyone who claimed the same beliefs without the protection of the word “Religion”.

My wife spent her high school years in Twin Falls, Idaho as the daughter of the Episcopal minister. When I asked her if she would vote for a Mormon for President she said “no”.

It is what I expected from hearing her stories. If the Mormon church CAN do something to get its way it WILL try.

However, for myself Mr. Romney has his own record in office and if he can demonstrate from the record that he has an independent political stance
then I will listen. 

There is the fact that he’s a Republican which will admittedly make his job more difficult. I’m from the state of Sen. Gordon Smith who is Mormon and a Republican and recently charted a position away from the President on Iraq. I’m still waiting to hear, however, if he will help the Democrats correct that ugly bill that shredded habeus corpus in the last Congress. My vote for him in 2008 will depend on this.

“To arrogantly dismiss all followers or believers of any religion as crazy, cult followers, or mindless is more a reflection of YOUR cynicism and despair than it is a useful commentary on this article.”

IGreene,
Save your sermons for the senseless; not everyone needs to navigate a maze of dreadfulness by sedating themselves with theological nirvana.

Bush cites his religious beliefs all the time and look what a disaster he is for the country!

I would never vote for Mitt Romney because he is a republican.

In America, it is time to tax all religions, just as we do any business. I’m tired of them freeloading on the rest of us.

I am not LDS, nor do I attend church regularly, but I do see myself as a follower of Christ’s teachings (among others) and was baptized in the Presbyterian Church.  I have major difficulties with the doctrines of most Christian denominations, with the exception of the United Church of Christ/Congregationalist churches who are open, welcoming to all, and hold that God continues to reveal himself to us (as opposed to fundamentalists who believe the bible is a static and literal dictate).  I believe that if one is a thoughtful and reflective person, the teachings of Christ (taking into consideration the context of the culture of his time) are simple, true, and meaningful sources for guidance in our lives--to fear them or other good teachings from the worlds great wisdom traditions is to shut oneself off to a richness of life’s meaning not to be found elsewhere.

After posting my comment yesterday, I came back here to see others responses, and I, too am appalled that so many of you who think you are “progressive” or “liberal” would make statements steaming with the hateful, disrespectful and illogical sentiments you do.  These are people you are talking about, not some symbolic group--real people with real lives, trying to navigate this bizzarre world in the best way they know how---just at you are, and you are no better or worse than they. 

The LDS church is a legitimate and stable organization that is one of the most “American” of all our religious affiliations, in that it endured hysterical persecutions over its history, yet endured, and went on to prosper and embrace the American Constitution and way of life to the hilt.  Study history, folks, and you will see that like every other religion or philosophy, LDS has been a power force for both good and evil in its follower’s lives.  To arrogantly dismiss all followers or believers of any religion as crazy, cult followers, or mindless is more a reflection of YOUR cynicism and despair than it is a useful commentary on this article.

Cal said, “how can you support a Morman who has been brainwashed since infancy to believe that ... women cannot be leaders in the hierarchy”.

Obviously you’ve never been part of a Mormon congregation.  On any given Sunday (or any other day of the week) you will find women in leadership positions throughout the church, teaching, organizing, leading, speaking sermons and every other hierarchical function.  They do not hold the priesthood but their voice is definitely heard, heeded and respected.

As a life long “liberal”, at least according to my fellow Mormon church members, I am appalled at the narrow minded (or should it be called closed minded) thoughts expressed in these posts.  I have always assumed it was the Republican side of the aisle that held medieval views on matters of religion.  I see that the Age of Enlightenment hasn’t quite founds its way into liberal America either.  How disappointing.

I’d have the same level of difficulty voting for any person of faith, Mormon, Christian or Muslim...whatever. People of faith can easily cross the line into delusional and that’s going to be a problem for me. I can deal with it by simply taking a look at what a candidate says about his own religious beliefs and then take an even longer look at what his platform says about him. An example would be, say, Dennis Kucinich, a person of faith. However, his platform says he can do secular with no problem and, to me, that means Kucinich is not a slave to dogma. I don’t believe a Muslim candidate, on the other hand, would ever be able to ignore their own dogma and they would always be on a mission. As for a Mormon candidate, watching South Park pretty much ended that as a possiblity for me.

Under no circumstances should a mormon become president of the most powerful nation in history. They believe that blacks have, “the mark of Cain”, Native Americans are decendants of mythical “Lamanites”, the cursed evil dark skinned Isreali tribe that killed the “white and delightsome” mythical “Nephites”. They even believe that the male, who has the “priesthood” will become a god in his own private heaven with many wives in the hereafter. The best Molly Ivins and you other female types can hope for is to be married to a god....

While most religion is nonsense, the mormons will not bomb you if you live next door to them. They will just try to bore you to death as they are convinced a man who was convicted for fraud by a New York jury is a “prophet” and their aged leader talks directly to skippy.

But foreign policy requires actual knowledge of history, science and culture. Native Americans come from Asia and have been in the “New World” for at least 12,000 years. The Jews have only been a seperate identifible people for at best 7,000 years. The reason, there is only 7,000 years of recorded history. The linguistics, the blood lines the DNA all go to Asia, not Israel. Yet young mormon children continue to be taught that Indians, (those evil dark skinned Laminites) are members of a lost tribe of Israel. While such nonsense is acceptable for people who are not well educated or intellectually dishonest, a world leader should not hold such ridiculous racist and sexist views of reality. It is a complex world and mormons who have a real admiration for fascism are not mentally fit for an office as important as leader of the “free world”, such as it is.

Danny Quintana
author and retired attorney
Hunting & Gathering, An Urban Youth Survival Guide; Martian Peace, Why We Must Explore the Oceans & Space.

Chuck:  I won’t vote for anyone who is overly religious.  Mormonism is a cult.  It is not different that any of the other major organized religions.  They are all bonkers because they put the needs of the organization above the needs of their flock.  Ask yourself, who are the biggest beneficiaries of organized religion?  The holymen.  That’s who.  If you believe that women are equal to men, then how can you support a Morman who has been brainwashed since infancy to believe that men and women have separate roles and that women cannot be leaders in the hierarchy?  The same goes for Catholics.

What could be more amusing recreation than to sit back and watch Christians eat their own.  (Grin!)

“The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries.” - James Madison, primary author of the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights

“Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity in exclusion of all other religions may establish, with the same ease, any particular sect of Christians in exclusion of all other sects? That the same authority which can force a citizen to contribute threepence only of his property for the support of any one establishment may force him to conform to any other establishment in all cases whatsoever?” - James Madison, “A Memorial and Remonstrance,” addressed to the General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Virginia, 1785

“And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a Virgin Mary, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. . . .  But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away all this artificial scaffolding.” - Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, 11 April 1823

Not after 230 years. But, keep hoping Tom!

As a non-Christian I’ve read the comments here with great interest. What’s particularly interesting is that the comments clearly prove the point Susan made in her article. The amount of bigotry I see here against people of the Mormon faith is far more openly hostile than what people would ever express about Jews, blacks, Hispanics, Muslims or Hindus. As a non-Christian the hostility does not surprise me because this is what I know many people feel about me and my religious background. It’s just the openness about that hostility that I’m not used to seeing.

As for the specific reasons for the anti-Mormon hostility, I find them laughable. Every single accusation leveled against Mormons here is something I could just as easily level at the Catholic, Protestant and other Christian churches. One poster points to the Mormon belief that some Native American tribes are the “LOST TRIBES OF ISRAEL” as proof of its absurdity, with big capital letters and exclamation points! But how is that claim any more absurd than claims of burning bushes, a talking snake offering a naked dude an apple, the refusal to acknowledge the existence of dinosaurs, Jesus coming back to life after being crucified, and an old guy walking on water? Finding tablets with secret language on it is funny, you say? Funny compared to what? A set of blue sapphire tablets on a mountain in Israel containing God’s hand-writing?

I’ve seen statistics that indicate that 95% of the electorate would not support an atheist if he or she ran for president.  That says a lot more about who we are as a nation than the 37% that won’t support Romney.

Will you listen to yourselves?  I am a Mormon and I am appalled at the bare-faced bigotry I have read here.  The misconceptions and outright lies are thick.  Here is just one example:

“‘Mormon’ and ‘moron’ are derived from the same Greek root word.” - How is that possible?  The word ‘Mormon’ comes from the name of prophet in the Book of Mormon.  If you don’t subscribe to the religion, then it is simply a made-up name.  If you do,then it is the name of person who once lived.  Plus, the word ‘Mormon’ appears nowhere in the official name of the church.  It is just a nickname that was originally meant as an insult but later adopted; like Impressionism.

Here are some of the jobs that the general populace find acceptable positions for a Mormon:

Athlete:  Steve Young, Johnny Miller, Danny Ainge
Entertainer: Gladys Knight, The Osmonds, Gordon Jump
Hotel chain founder: J. Willard Marriott
Leading research in cancer, neurology, polymers, etc. at BYU.
Secretary of Agriculture: Ezra Taft Benson (later president of the Mormon Church)
Secretary of Education: Terrel Bell
Undersecretary of State: J. Reuben Clark
Numerous governors and senators from states other than Utah.
Current US Senate Majority leader: Harry Reid

This list is just a sample of the vast number of Mormons that have been accepted by the main-stream population.  And yet, the backwards thinking misconceptions persist.

Do you have any idea how similar this discussion sounds to pre-civil-rights propaganda and discrimination?  If you think that statement is off base, do a little research and find out why the Mormons wound up settling in Utah.

I’m hoping that most people with Mormon colleagues, neighbors, and friends will know how seriously to take some of the hateful and inaccurate things said above.

Younginspirit: my guess is you’re not gay.  Watch out for Romney; he’s out of touch with mainstream America.

I’m employed in Hawaii by a Mormon family-owned company based in Utah and it’s been the best job I’ve had in my 19 year career in aviation. They seem to know how to run a business better than any past employer, and as a consequence care about employee morale (as opposed to morals).  My (unpublicized) atheist sentiments do not factor into my employment and if a Mormon presidential candidate known for being a good administrator as governor of a liberal New England state will maintain a healthy separation of church and state, unlike any follower of the protestant evangelical unctuously creepy likes of jerry falwell/pat robertson/dr. james dobson/franklin graham et al., and given no better choices, I could see myself cautiously voting for such an individual and hoping for the best.

This is an interesting list of commentary, I am sure the misperceptions, ignorance, and out and out misrepresentations regarding the Church of Jesus Christ of Later-day Saints, “Mormon’s,” are very similar to what must have been said among people of this ilk regarding Catholics when JFK ran for President.  As Kennedy said, “The more we change the more we stay the same,” we are really not as enlightened as we would sometimes believe ourselves to be. 

I am L.D.S., aka, a “Mormon.” Just to set a few things straight, the word, Mormon, is derived from the name of the gentleman who helped compile the “Book of Mormon.” For those who believe the “Book of Mormon” to be scripture, the linguistic etymology of the name is from a long lost and forgotten ancient American derivation of an even more ancient version of Hebrew (you will have to read the “Book of Mormon” to fully get this).  For those who do not believe the “Book of Mormon” to be scripture, it means the name is derived from somewhere in the recesses of Joseph Smith’s imagination.  Where the guy above got the idea of a Greek derivation is beyond me.  This, however, is a small but perfect example of the depth of misunderstanding and ignorance many of the comments on this article display.

Take any of these comments and apply them to Jews, Catholics, or any other religious or minority group and post them on a public site and you would be shouted down for prejudice of the lowest order.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion but before you go and make yourselves sound like bigots, which I truly do not think many of you are, I would recommend that you educate yourselves more fully on what you are talking about.  If even a tenth of what you are alleging here were true I do not think would be able to vote for a Mormon either.  Good thing for me, it is not.

Any mormons reading, this take note. Christians have ALWAYS been harder on heretics (you guys) than on heathans (me).
Romney will not get elected in the US because he is a heretic from mainstream Christianity. But all of you mormons had better get smart and stop supporting fundies like Bush because if protestant, and particularly evangelical, christianity ever becomes the dominant political power in this country they’ll be coming for you long before they com for me.

If the bloggers in this thread are as misinformed on election day about the various candidates as they are about the Mormon Church then the country would be better served if they stay home.  Try doing some diligent research instead of sucking up every rumor and paranoid story on the street.  Seek the truth with honesty and integrity and you might be surprised at what you find.

From the many articles I’ve read and videos I’ve watch regarding Romney, it’s quite obvious to me that he is a very astute, intelligent, person and a great speaker with a good sense of humor.

It states that (paraphrasing) “Religion is to have no bearing on a person who is running for office.”

Romney has done a fabulous job running MA as governor. His Church or religion never came into play during that time. In fact his Church does not believe in getting involved with politics or in influencing members on how to vote.

Mormons on the whole are very honest, disciplined and good people...I’ve known many. The leaders of the Church are not paid...they work before retirement and do not get any monies from the Church. Tithing is a voluntary thing as their teachings are based on ‘free agency’ or choice.

I think that Mitt would make a great president, judging by his huge success in fixing and running the ‘broken’ 2002 Winter Olympics and leaving it with a profit and going into MA as Gov with a deficit and leaving the state with a big profit and a state Healthcare Plan in place, the first state to do so. He has excellent business sense and credentials.

You have to look at a person and judge them by what they stand for and their record! Romney’s record thus far has been brilliant and impeccable.

The vast majority of Mormons are compassionate, upright and highly patriotic people.

As an organization, the Mormon Church has engaged in charitable undertakings of incredible proportions, just visit http://www.lds.org/humanitarianservices to see for yourself. In addition the Church sponsors several colleges and many other social services.

As most religions do, the Mormons advocate strong family values, personal integrity and industry. Yet the Mormons are hardly puritanic; compassion and outreach are some of the hallmarks of Mormon populace. To learn more about the beliefs go to http://www.mormon.org

One unique belief that Mormons hold is about the Constitution. The Church regards the United States Constitution as a sacred document, and that the Founding Fathers were men inspired. Such regard for the Constitution (which among other things requires division between religion and state) assures adherence to it’s articles like no other claim.

There have been many Mormons among this country’s leadership: Ezra Taft Benson, George Romney, Orrin Hatch, Henry Reid to name just a few. Compassion, integrity, and strong patriotism have always accomplished their service with religion always staying off the sleeves.

God bless America!

“Mr. Romney’s candidacy ends when he is asked to explain the traditional Mormon position regarding skin color.”

I know. It’s sad that the bigoted ‘Christians’ in the South can’t accept a religion where the leader, just this year, admonished the members of the church that “each of us is a son or daughter of our Father in Heaven, who loves all of His children” and told members who had racist feelings to “go before the Lord and ask for forgiveness and be no more involved in such.”

He explained to members, “that no man who makes disparaging remarks concerning those of another race can consider himself a true disciple of Christ. Nor can he consider himself to be in harmony with the teachings of the Church of Christ. How can any man holding the Melchizedek Priesthood arrogantly assume that he is eligible for the priesthood whereas another who lives a righteous life but whose skin is of a different color is ineligible?” (http://www.lds.org/conference/talk/display/0,5232,23- 1-602-20,00.html)

There was a time in history where racism was prevalent throughout our country.  Unfortunately, the US culture also affected the policies of the LDS church.  We are trying to move on. The rest of the country should also.

May I remind everyone that the Southern Baptist Convention was formed because of its support for slavery? Racism was and is an ugly part of America.

“How can we expect rational problem analysis with subsequent prudent decisions when an individual has ridiculous views of how the world works? “

We’ve obtained ‘rational problem analysis’ from presidents who believe that a dead man came back from the dead after three days and that a virgin gave birth to a child for over 200 years.  We can have the same expectations for a Mormon (the Senate Majority Leader is a Mormon and I haven’t seen any indication that his religious beliefs inhibit his decision making).

When you examine anyone’s religious beliefs you’re going to find stuff that you find unbelievable.  Otherwise, I suppose you’d be a member of that religion.

More proof that religion is crap.

While I generally would not base support of a candidate on religious affiliation, in Romney’s case, I do.  I live in Salt Lake City and on a dialy basis see what the Mormons do/have done to the local political and social scenes. 
1. If you’re not Mormon, you don’t belong.
2. If you’re not white, you’re not right.
3. If you’re Mormon, you’re republican.
4. Religion=politics, therefore, all political decisions have HEAVY religious tones.

Most of the Mormons I know, although nice people, honestly feel superior to and pity those non-Mormons.  I cannot support ANYONE with these beliefs.

Oh wow! Read the posts above and you can just feel the hate. These people don’t have a theological or intellectual difference of opinion. They hate! They go way overboard, which is quite typical in some discussions with certain people. It is visceral. How do you have a productive conversation when the other side behaves like what you read above?

Dear Susan,

The irony in this tale is that in being tempted to view Romney as some sort of victim, we are missing the point.  Romney is not a victim of mass anti-religious bigotry--he is a victim of the narrow religious bigotry of the Christianist right, whose insistence on inserting themselves into American domestic and foreign policy decisions have become almost more important than saving souls.  I believe that they wouldn’t want a Mormon in the highest office of the land simply because they have enjoyed too much influence and power under the Bush/Republican Majority to ever let that go by aligning themselves with anyone outside their tiny circle of religious doctrine.

If we were to re-conduct the survey referred to in an more in depth manner, we would need to ask about the religious afiliation and devotion of the 37 percent who said they would not vote for a Mormon.  A few of that group would say they are anti-religious, and (erroneously) see the Mormons in the same group with Moonies, Jehova Witnesses, or Branch Davidians:  mindless sheep who follow the dictates of a cult leader, who want to take over the world.  However, I bet the majority are self described fundamentalist, evangelical or other “very religious” (aka, highly involved in their church) Christians.

Unfortunately, the Mormons are and have been the offshoot group most doctrinally maligned by evangelical and mainstream Christian churches for years. (I was recently told very sternly by otherwise progressive, mainstream Lutheran mother-in-law that “You know they are NOT Christians, right? They will tell you they are, but they are NOT!” when mentioning casually the fact that my son’s close friend’s family was LDS. She didn’t want me, someone who is not a member of any church, to be tricked by their emphasis on service to others and family, I guess.)

So, to answer the question posed by the title of this column:  we are a nation that in abandoning our Founding Fathers intent on keeping a personal, private right but keeping religion out of government (and subsequently,politics) we have allowed only one extreme wing of the Christian faith to define for all of us what faith is.  Which is why intense religious faith and practice of any kind on the part of a candidate for public office, including Romney, might have to be a disqualifier until the time returns when religion is a once again, personal.

“Why would it?  What does belief in the trinity have to do with balancing a budget?”

I would rather not vote for anyone that professes to believe in magic. How can we expect rational problem analysis with subsequent prudent decisions when an individual has ridiculous views of how the world works?
I take the liberty of calling said views ridiculous because they are. Just compare the poor Mormons “views” with those of, your choice, some other delusional theory of whom we are and what we need to do about it.
These different “views” are very inconsistent with each other and further discussion will prove them downright ridiculous.

“Of course a person’s religion affects his or her values”
We see this all the time. A person’s religion is a reflection of that person’s gullibility and not a reflection of “values”. What about the suicide bombers, pedophiliac priests, hand-in-the-register Evangelical politicians? All of these creeps are those who claim or have claimed to be religious but are operating in unacceptable ways. 

We need down to earth and compassionate problem solvers to help run and guide our society, truly spiritual people in other words, and we should try to steer clear of anyone whom is so insecure with their place on this planet that claims of belief in magic are used to qualify said persons integrity.

“Republican” is the real deal-breaker for me.

Still, I would maintain that a candidate’s religion can be a legitimate problem, especially if it’s a religion that asserts authority over its members.

Remember, most religions have moral positions with direct political consequences.  In this case, those would be over abortion, contraception, and the rights of women.  Romney, by his record, has been willing to at least fudge his religion’s positions on those issues; but what would happen if the Mormon church leadership (all male) called him up and laid down the law - while he is President?

This is not theoretical:  the Catholic church recently did essentially that, threatening to ex-communicate Catholic officeholders who defy church mandates in their policy making.  This is every Catholic politician’s worst nightmare, and a really stupid thing to do; but it provides us direct confirmation of our worst fears.

The Constitution allows no religious qualification for office - in other words, no candidate can be kept off the ballot for that reason.  It does not require us to ignore people’s religion if it has policy implications.  At the very least, we are entitled to ask them whether we are really electing their church leadership to office.  Yes, the Kennedy question we thought was laid to rest.

I think it is great. If someone believes that Jesus after death visited the Indians to spread his message and that an angel talked exclusively to Joshua Smith to reveal God’s wisdom, then I think such a person is not qualified to be president.
I also personally think that anybody believing that Gods born from virgins who were impregnated by ghosts should not be electable.
Freedom from religion is more important at this juncture of our nation then freedom of religion.

The Enclyclopedia Dramatica notes that “Mormon” and “moron” are derived from the same Greek root word. 

I would vote for Romney if he renounced the poor behavior propigated by his church and practiced by so many of its members.  This will not happen and this is the problem.  JFK would have disassociated himself from the negative practices of Catholics in a minute.  Romney does not have the gumption to call his church out when they do wrong and people want a president with this ability.  God knows the Mormons are committing numerous crimes in Utah that are currently being investigated by the state and feds.  The state has had to take over a school district becuase the Mormons let their beliefs get in the way of properly administering a school district. These investigations and corrective actions need to continue. The ball is in Romney’s hands and he will fumble.  He will not act against fellow Mormons when they do wrong.

I think some people are concerned with the bigotry and clanish behavior of Mormons in western states (e.g., Nevada, Utah, Oregon, Idaho, and Arizona).  Some small commuities are run by Mormons who exclude non-Mormons or treat them unfairly.  The lines between church and state are blurred in these communities (e.g., the Mormon sheriff treats you differently based on your religion).  Too many Mormons treat you differently in the workforce based on whether or not you belong to the local LDS center.  Non-Mormon Caucasians report that they feel like Blacks in the South in the 50’s when they deal with Mormons in small western towns-they are not equal humans in the eyes of Mormons, and it is OK to treat non-Mormons differently in secular life.  What people are objecting to is the all-too-common bigotry perpetrated by Mormons.  Remember that these guys were still excluding Blacks when Romney was in college and when he was serving his church over his country he went to France on a religious mission instead of serving in Vietnam-he received a deferment to go on this mission).

If you think the percentage of Americans that would never vote for a mormon president is high, just take a look at the percentage that would never vote for an atheist.

“In an effort to address the religion issue, Romney reportedly met earlier this fall with a group of leading evangelists, including Jerry Falwell, Franklin Graham and Richard Land of the Southern Baptist Convention, who were invited to the governor’s home to discuss not political issues but issues of faith. And as they quizzed him on his faith, one of the ministers focused on Romney’s beliefs about Jesus Christ.”

THEIST leaders and their political policies: approved pre-emptive attacks of sovereign countries; have caused the death and destruction of hundred of thousands of civilians; have neglected to eliminate poverty, effecting 25 percent of the U.S. population; have failed to enact a universal healthcare system; have endorsed policies that have destroyed our