LOGO: Truthdig: Drilling Beneath the Headlines. A Progressive Journal of News and Opinion. Editor, Robert Scheer. Publisher, Zuade Kaufman.Best Political Blog Winner, 2007 Webby Awards, People's Voice and Jury.  
 
July 24, 2008
Log in / Register

 Choose a size
Text Size

Reports
Obama on the Brink
No Easy Out for Obama

Ear to the Ground

A/V Booth

Arts & Culture

Digs
Inside the Data Mine

Truthdig Bazaar
The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy

The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy

By John J. Mearsheimer and Stephen M. Walt
$26.00

more items

 
Reports

Sheinbaum: Carter’s ‘Apartheid’ Mistake

Email this item Email    Print this item Print   
Posted on Dec 22, 2006
Sheinbaum and Carter
Sheinbaum: Jewish Journal; Carter: Amazon.com

Stanley Sheinbaum and the cover of Jimmy Carter’s new book.

By Joshua Scheer

Truthdig speaks with the internationally renowned diplomat, peace activist and scholar Stanley Sheinbaum about Jimmy Carter’s controversial new book, “Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid.”

Sheinbaum has long been active in the Israeli-Palestinian peace process. In 1988 he headed a nongovernmental delegation of five American Jews that succeeded in getting Yasser Arafat to recognize Israel and to disavow terrorism.

He has been a board member of the International Center for Peace in the Middle East in Tel Aviv since 1982 and a board member of Americans for Peace Now since 1988.

He was chairman of the American Civil Liberties Foundation of Southern California and a regent of the University of California.

Currently the publisher of New Perspectives Quarterly, Sheinbaum remains active in Mideast peace efforts, along with a host of other progressive issues. He speaks here with Truthdig research editor Joshua Scheer.


Truthdig: What is your impression of the Jimmy Carter book?

Sheinbaum: Very serious, very intelligently written and laid out; putting in all sorts of components that were important to have included, such as the records of the various agreements that were made, starting way back in the first century and bringing it right up to date in about a dozen pages.




Truthdig: It’s called “Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid.” How does this come up?

Sheinbaum: My take on it was that Carter was trying to use the concept of apartheid as a way of creating an interest in the problem, but not making an accusation about it, [not] that this was an apartheid scheme as we understand it from South Africa, but rather that there were components that should lead to a discussion and have Jews everywhere thinking about what the implications of the policy were.  And the major component, as you probably know, is the occupation of Palestinian lands, especially in the West Bank, which is not considered part of Israel, or hasn’t been.  But a number of Israelis and hard-line American Jews have wanted to consider it [a part of Israel].

Truthdig: Is Carter critical of the Palestinians and their involvement in bombings and actions of that sort?

Sheinbaum: Yeah, he gets into the question. Especially of Hamas, which he practically calls a terrorist organization.

Truthdig: Would you call it a balanced book?

Sheinbaum: Yes.

Truthdig: Some have criticized the book [as] not being historically accurate, that it lacks some facts. Did you find that to be true?

Sheinbaum: No.  As I said, he has a chronology going way back to the first century, with the various components, and bringing it up to the 21st century; various agreements that were made, [and] when they were not adhered to, when they were adhered to, and he is very articulate about that.

Truthdig: Some of his other books have been about a less controversial subject matter; do you think he knew what he was getting into when he wrote this book?

Sheinbaum: I think he made a serious mistake, to answer that question, when he applied the term “apartheid.” He was hoping to use the concept of apartheid as something that would create a dialogue or a debate.  But instead, it created accusations against him, that he was equating what was going on in the occupied lands with what went on in South Africa.

Truthdig: So in your mind his only mistake was using the term “apartheid”?

Sheinbaum: Yes.

Truthdig: Is it a good book?

Sheinbaum: It’s a good book.

Truthdig: Did he recognize his role in possibly contributing to the creation of Al Qaeda, and therefore increasing terrorism, through his actions in Afghanistan when he was president of the United States, or was that not in the book?

Sheinbaum: I don’t recall that being in the book.

Truthdig: It’s interesting because of [Zbigniew] Brzezinski [the architect of the strategy of supporting the mujahedeen in Afghanistan against the Soviets; the Afghan “freedom fighters” later formed the Taliban]… .

Sheinbaum: Yeah, the one thing that sort of startled me was that he talks about Bill Clinton as having been determined to bring about peace between Palestinians and the Israelis. But then under Bill Clinton’s tenure, the Israelis occupied much of the West Bank.  And it’s almost as if Clinton sanctioned that.

Truthdig: Do you think Clinton did that?  Do you think that was a mistake in the book not to mention it?

Sheinbaum: No, I think that was a mistake on Clinton’s part.

Truthdig: You were intimately involved in the peace process.  Can you explain what you did, and would that method perhaps work today?

Sheinbaum: No, it’s not as easy today.  The tensions are greater, the divisions are greater, and the self-interest is stronger than ever, on both sides. The Israelis are moving into large areas of the West Bank, and for the Palestinians this is a hostile thing to do; it keeps them further from coming to terms with the Israelis.

Truthdig: How did you help to create peace, if only temporarily?

Sheinbaum: Well what I did, as you may know, I organized a group of five American Jews including myself, to go deal with Arafat, who was then the leader in some vague way of the Palestinians.  [We tried] to get him to accept ... Israel as a national state, and to disavow terrorism, which he did ... and that was a significant thing to do, and then there was a lot of pressure on him from the hard-line Palestinian side to back off.

Truthdig: Is that why the peace did not last?

Sheinbaum: It didn’t last ... because the intensity from the hard-line Palestinian side was very strong.

Truthdig: When you went to meet with Arafat, what was the reaction in the Jewish community?

Sheinbaum: Very negative.

Truthdig: Why was that?

Sheinbaum: At one point, when I got back, there where dead pigs thrown in my driveway.

Truthdig: Is there any way to take action toward peace without having such hate directed at you?

Sheinbaum: Well, anyone who talks to an enemy is himself an enemy.

Truthdig: Was this worth it to you?

Sheinbaum: Well, I got Arafat to accept the concept [of an Israeli state], and to disavow terrorism.

Truthdig: In your estimation, is there any politician out there today with a plan, or at least the courage to take on this issue and risk being labeled an anti-Semite?

Sheinbaum: I’m really not aware of anyone.

Truthdig: I’m still having a hard time understanding why people would be so opposed to your efforts to foster peace. Why would they call you a Jew-hater and an anti-Semite, especially since you are Jewish?

Sheinbaum: In political conflict you get these kinds of reactions. If they’re not on your side and there are political things at stake, then the antipathies are really very strong. 

Truthdig: This is a quagmire, probably the worst situation in the world. 

Sheinbaum: Oh yeah, this cannot go on.

Truthdig: What could fix the problem?  As you said, the divisions are great, so the peace efforts that worked before will likely not work again.  So what could work now?

Sheinbaum: There are tensions in the Middle East that are now very strong and could lead to explosions of an undetermined nature, and everything must be done to stop that. 

Truthdig: Do you have a plan for that yet?

Sheinbaum: No.

Truthdig: Are you working on one?

Sheinbaum: No, I’m not. ... I’m not allowed to travel anymore.  I have had some physical problems. ... And to get involved in an active way ... [when] you can’t travel—it’s almost impossible. I should say that I’m trying to keep in touch with those American and international Jews who think similarly to myself.

Truthdig: So you are still as active as you can be without being able to travel?

Sheinbaum: Yeah.

Truthdig: Do you think Carter’s book is a good attempt to try to find a peaceful solution?

Sheinbaum: Yeah, and I think it’s unfortunate that provocative term “apartheid” was included, because it’s turning people against the book.  People like Alan Dershowitz and Marty Peretz of The New Republic are misinterpreting it.

Truthdig: Dershowitz wrote that he was upset by Carter’s unwillingness to engage in a public debate.  Would you like to see a debate?

Sheinbaum: Sure.

Truthdig: So the “apartheid” term is really the key point here?

Sheinbaum: It’s the trigger.

Truthdig: They probably intended to use it to sell books, with that powerful word, and now it seems to have blown up in their face.

Sheinbaum: No, I don’t want to impute that motivation to him [Carter].  I think he was sincere; I don’t know him that well.  They may have been hoping that the term would trigger a debate.

Truthdig: And it obviously did.

Sheinbaum: Yeah, but to an extent those who are using it are trying to invalidate the book itself.

Truthdig: Thanks so much for your time.

Email Newsletter

Get truth delivered to your inbox every week.

Previous item: E.J. Dionne Jr.: The Risk-Aversion Spiral

Next item: E.J. Dionne Jr.: Christianity's African-American Soul

Jump to Comments

Advertisement


Elsewhere: .

Comments

Are you a Truthdig member yet? Login now, or register with Truthdig.

By Robert, May 15, 2007 at 3:26 pm #

IT HAS BEEN SAID THAT A PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS. EVEN WITH A THOUSAND WORDS, HOW CAN ONE DESCRIBE THE LOOK IN THE EYES OF A 13 YEAR OLD PALESTINIAN BOY BEING USED BY ISRAEL’S IDF AS A “HUMAN SHIELD” ?

THE SIMPLE ANSWER IS THAT THERE IS SOME STORIES & TRUTH THAT CAN ONLY TOLD WITH PICTURES.

Take a look & read the TRUTH of this story:

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11& ar=1018

Report this

By Tony Wicher, May 14, 2007 at 5:17 pm #

Reply to #69913 by Bob Griffin on 5/14 at 11:42 am

Amen, brother.

Report this

By Bob Griffin, May 14, 2007 at 11:42 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

To Righty, Hondo, etc.

This past Thursday I heard a lecture on part of the first genocide of the 20th century.  Israel is still supporting the denial of the genocide of 1915.  Hrant Dink was murdered this year because he didn’t want the world to forget.

Israel is supporting both the major and minor powers connected with Seyfo, the genocide in 1915 in Asia Minor (both Turkey and the Kurds). Both Turkey and the Kurds show an ongoing interest in cultural genocide against ethnic minorities.

There is a choice. Shall one make ‘never again’ mean “We’ll do anything against anyone in order that no one may do to us what was done”, or shall one strive for a world in which never again shall a people, any people, be destroyed because of their faith, their ethnicity, their language, the color of their skin… The choice confronts ALL of us, Jew and Gentile, Kurd and Chaldean, Abo and Aussie, Cherokee and Anglo-American…

Be Well,
Bob Griffin

Report this

By Tony Wicher, May 14, 2007 at 10:21 am #

Reply to #69835 by PatrickHenry on 5/14 at 4:14 am

“Alot of political hay is made with the mere mention of “the holocaust” infering special status and laws, exemption from human rights because someones ancestors died in it is not right either.”

PH,

Have you ever read Norman Finkelstein? He is one of the finest scholars in the country, right up there with Noam Chomsky. He is brilliant and rock solid.  He has written two books that deal with this subject, “The Holocaust Industry” and “Beyond Chutzpah: On the Misuse of Anti-Semitism and the Abuse of History”. I highly recommend them. You can also check Finkelstein out at:

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com.

Report this

By PatrickHenry, May 14, 2007 at 4:14 am #

Persons who were abused as children typically grow up to abuse their children.

There are many other races, religions and ethnic minorities which have suffered as much as the jews and now at the hands of the jews.

While 6 million jews were tragically killed in the holocaust, little mention is made of the 20 million non jews, i.e. Russians, Poles, gypsies.

Throughout the millenia, all people, races and cultures have suffered at the hands of others.  In my lifetime its been the Cambodians and Ugandians, the Ethiopians and the Serb/Croations to name a few.

Alot of political hay is made with the mere mention of “the holocaust” infering special status and laws, exemption from human rights because someones ancestors died in it is not right either.

Report this

By Tony Wicher, May 13, 2007 at 10:26 pm #

Hey, Hondo, it’s been more than sixty years. You are stepping on the Palestinians already. Time to rejoin the human race, don’t you think?

Report this

By Tony Wicher, May 13, 2007 at 3:29 pm #

Reply to #69640 by Hondo on 5/12 at 9:26 pm

You hate people very easily, don’t you? That is because the trauma of the Holocaust in your past is making you afraid it will happen again. So what do you do, but go around with a chip on your shoulder. It’s natural, it’s what people who have been traumatized do, but unfortunately it’s self-destructive. Keep it up, and of course people will start hating you. That’s how it works. That is what is happening now.

Get over it.

Report this

By Hondo, May 12, 2007 at 9:26 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

Tony, I don’t think I have ever read a more ignorant, more hateful comment on this site than your latest comment. Do you truly believe that Jews just need to “get over” the Holocaust? Do you really believe that their inability to “get over” the murder of 6 million Jews will cause it to happen again? That’s just like saying that a child’s inability to just “get over” being molested will cause him to be molested again. Or that a woman’s inability to just “get over” being raped will cause her to be raped again. Or that the African-American’s inability to just “get over” that slavery thing will just cause slavery to happen again.
Truly, there is no one on this Earth quite as hateful or ignorant as a liberal! Thanks, Tony, for the teachable moment!

Report this

By Righty, May 12, 2007 at 6:24 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

Now Tony Wicher predicts that the Jews will suffer another Holocaust at the hands of the world because they do not fall in line with his thinkings.
Everything Tony says just supports my contention that he is a Jew HATER and someone who needs to be watched and his opinions ignored. He is a liar in reference to his wish to have peace between Jews & Muslims and really only seeks the destruction of Israel. He also rants about Jews in America, who do not support his view, and believes that they will be the cause of their own destruction.
Nazi is the only word that describes this bastard’s views.
Screw you Tony boy and may you suffer the same fate you predict for Israel and the Jewish people.
NEVER AGAIN, NEVER AGAIN, NEVER AGAIN !

Report this

By Robert, May 11, 2007 at 12:39 pm #

Hey Tony...don’t let this “IDF JOE” get under your skin. I am appalled at the hatred & fanatic zionist comment.

Hang in there Tony. You are a caring human being and one who deeply cares for humanity on this earth.

All the best.

Report this

By Tony Wicher, May 11, 2007 at 11:31 am #

Reply #69317 by PatrickHenry on 5/11 at 3:52 am

The sad thing is that this type of hate and fear is going to cause the very thing Jews are afraid of. When they say “Never again!”, what this really means is that they are unable to get beyond the shock of the Holocaust, and their inablility to get over it will ultimately make it happen again. Freud calls it “the compulsion to repeat” the traumatic experience. What they cannot forget will happen again. This is so tragic.

Report this

By PatrickHenry, May 11, 2007 at 3:52 am #

Gee Tony, I don’t think G.I.Joe likes you very much.

I don’t think “Joe” favors Carters book.

So much for the Jewish (ADL) position on “hate speech”.

Report this

By G.I. JOE, May 10, 2007 at 6:29 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

Fuck you Wicker:
You call on all Jews to disassociate themselves from Israel.
Who the hell are you to make such a request?
And if Jews don’t, will you round them up and send them to gas chambers?
It is fucking asshole Jew HATERS like you that need to be put away for good. You are one of those disgusting beings that hold Jews accountable for all that is evil in this world. They must fall into line or be eliminated if they don’t.
You are scum and that is why I am addressing you in this foul language. You deserve no better and hope you suffer great distress and eventual death in the near future.
That is a prayer I hope comes true.

Report this

By PatrickHenry, May 9, 2007 at 5:20 pm #

Mr. Wicher,

Yes sir I do support HR333.

I support cutting off funding for Iraq operations.

I endorse Paul, Kucinich and Gravel as worthy to be candidates for President and could vote for any of them.  I like Gravel’s position on term limits.

Report this

By Tony Wicher, May 9, 2007 at 4:46 pm #

Reply to comment#69044 by PatrickHenry on 5/09 at 3:15 pm

Hey there, PH my friend. Somewhat off the topic, but just out of curiosity, do you support the impeachment of Bush-Cheney. I want them tried for crimes of state by the Senate before the International Criminal Court does it. That way the American people will still be able to hold up their heads again in the eyes of the world. If these rats are allowed to finish out their terms and slink off into the night, what does that say about us?  We must rise in defense of our Constitution. We must show the world that democracy still means something in this county.

I advocate that all Americans call and email their their congressment to voice support for HR 333, the resolution to impeach Richard B. Cheney.

This Iraq war does have an Israel connection. It is true that Israel has many influential Jewish supporters in this country and that they work though AIPAC, the ADL, etc. to influence U.S. policy in ways favorable to Israel. This sympathy of American Jews towards Israel is understandable, but it is not rational and not good for Americans or even Israelis because it enables their immoral behavior. I therefore call on all American Jews to go on record by signing a statement dissociating themselves from Israel’s current apartheid, anti-democratic government.

Report this

By PatrickHenry, May 9, 2007 at 3:15 pm #

I see the same old knuckleheads are still at this post.  Sort of an Arab/Israeli blog war which has detracted greatly from what the issue was, Carter and his critique of Israeli politics.

I for one want Israel out of U.S. politics by way of AIPAC registering as a foreign agent with its minions of sub-lobbys.  I want the US government to shed itself of dual nationals i.e. Perle, Feith, Dov Zakim and the rest of the neo-morons who have gotten us in this mess in Iraq.

Finally I want a formal apology for the attack on the USS Liberty from Israel and a more independent investigation of 9/11 bringing in all information concerning the movement of Israeli nationals and their supposed foreknowledge of events.

Alot is comming out now about JFK and the obvious hand Johnson had in his death with those polititians involved still around today.  9/11 smells like the same rat and I don’t want to wait 40+ years to find out we’ve all been spoon fed bullshit once again.

Report this

By Bob Griffin, May 9, 2007 at 1:00 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

Fadel,

The passage in Matthew doesn’t refer to the Jews in general, but rather to the scribes and the Pharisees. The scribes were a sort of intellectual class, while the Pharisees were a specifically religious sect of about the same class standing as the scribes.  Both groups were literate, and both groups apparently looked down on the average Jew (the average Jew at that time, like the average Roman, being mostly illiterate). Most of the condemnation of the scribes and Pharisees derives from this despite for common folk, and the actions which flowed from it; at least that is what the context indicates.

By the way, Rabbi Hillel and his grandson Rabban Gamaliel were known as more open to people, and not nearly as narrow in their teachings as various others of their contemporaries.

As to the speech or prophecy against Jerusalem, I would look at it in historic context.  If we attribute it to Jesus himself, it is perhaps a reaction to the general rejection or misunderstanding of the Jewish community.  If on the other hand it was composed in and by the early Christian community, the immediate background might be a composite of the recent destruction of Jerusalem by Titus and the increasing rejection of the Christians by the rest of the Jewish community.  Rabbi Tarphon, who flourished in the late 1st through early 2nd century, was apparently radically outspokenly anti-Christian.

Be Well,
Bob Griffin

Report this

By Righty, May 7, 2007 at 9:26 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

Do you see how Fadel Abdullah uses Jewish sources to support his anti-Jewish hate propaganda.
Yes, he wants the world to believe that the Jews hate themselves and truly believe that they are the cause of evil in the world.
This bastard uses the free press in Israel to support his anti-Jewish position.
Go to any country in the world who is a democracy and has a free press. You can always find some news stations and articles that are against the policies of that particular country. That is what happens in a free society. Now Fadel knows this but uses these sources to prove Jews are hateful of themselves and their own country the state of Israel. This bastard comes from an Islamic society which controls free speech and free press. He only presents the Islamic government’s viewpoint. He is a believer in the “big lie”. If you say it enough times it becomes the truth.
That is why he is a spammer. He just keeps that propaganda coming. On and on with the anti-Jewish hate articles. Nothing good about Jews only bad.
I guess his people are angels and do no wrong? No articles about Arab Muslim oppression and hate of anyone who does not believe in Islam and its prophet Mohammad. Yes, Abdullah is a liar and distorts the truth. He is true evil and will in the end suffer due to his own hate and lies. Praise to Allah.
The only thing Jews got from being pacifists were suffering & being murdered at the hands of others.
Zionism is necessary for the survival of Jews in a world of 3 billion Muslims & Christians who have murdered and oppressed them over the last 2,000 years.
Screw you Abdullah.

Report this

By Fadel Abdallah, May 4, 2007 at 9:05 pm #

In the NIV Study Bible, New International Version, Zondervan Publishing House, Michigan, 1985; Matthew: 23:15, page 1477, I read the following:

“You snakes! You brood of vipers! How would you escape being condemned to hell?! Therefore, I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flag in your synagogues and purse from town to town…”

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you! How often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.”
=======================================
In this quoted passage of the Christian Bible, it’s obvious that God is speaking and condemning the Jews in the strongest possible language. If I were a Jew I would be greatly offended and do my best to censor or have this removed from the Bible! However, I am neither a Jew nor a Christian, and I am wondering what kind of reaction a Jew or a Christian would have upon reading this passage. I know there are many passionate Christians, Jews and even atheists on this thread, and I am deadly curious to know what’s your take or comment on this. Any comments would be appreciated for I need this to do some research.

Report this

By Tony Wicher, May 4, 2007 at 4:52 pm #

Fadel said:

Well, Mad As Hell, I am not surprised that in your Zionist fanatic and screwed up mentality you have the audacity to attribute to people what they don’t say. This talk about “Jews are inherently evil” and that I “want EVERY Jew in the world killed” are your own words and the figment of your sick and insecure imagination, and your evil desire to mark me up as a Jew hater and anti-Semitic.

Now mark my words! I cannot be anti-Semitic because I am possibly more pure Semitic than yourself. I actually believe that there are so many good and noble Jews, in whom I place a great hope in helping the Palestinians get justice, while, at the same time, helping rescue Jews and Judaism from evil fanatic Zionists like you. In fact, I have a good number of close Jewish friends who are noble, sincere and the best human beings. Those are Jews I am willing to defend with my own life if they face persecution or harm. In doing this, I will be acting in the best tradition of my noble coreligionists, such as Saladin and many others before and after him who rescued the Jews from the persecution of the Inquisition, the Crusaders and lately the Jewish survivors of the Nazis. There is well-documented history about this, but I know you’re no reader seeking enlightenment to suggest references for you.

Moreover, your insistence on equating fanatic Zionism with Judaism is another indication that you’re ill informed and have a screwed up mentality. You should know by now that there are more Jews than you can count who are against Zionism as a racist and secular colonialist enterprise.

By way of conclusion, it’s not Jews or Judaism; it’s fanatic Zionism, stupid!

=======================

Fadel,

Damn right! The problem begins with Zionism, not Judaism. Non-Zionist Jews are among the finest people in the world and always have been. The problem began when certain Jews developed an ideology which said that Jews would always be persecuted unless they had a national state of their own. The persecution was real and getting worse, so their idea had some plausibility. Then they negotiated with the British and got the Balfour Delaration. Jews began to migrate there and tensions in Palestine from this immigration became steadily worse. Then the Holocaust convinced millions of surviving Jews that the Zionists were right, and they stampeded to Palestine. Now they are sitting there on top of the Palestinians. The Palestinians hate their guts and who can blame them? What a mess!The problem is that a Jewish state cannot really be a democracy. Citizenship in a democracy cannot depend on race, creed, color or national origen. This is something you don’t think about when you are running away from Hitler. It is sixty years later, and past time to re-think their position.

Report this

By Thomas, May 4, 2007 at 12:07 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

Fadel Abdullah:
You can’t even communicate truthfully in one language. Why do you think 5 of them will do the trick?
The only language your kind understands is the brute force that will get rid of those like yourself who are wolves in sheep’s clothing. Only through the defeat of the “Big Lie”, that the Jew is the cause of evil, can your kind be brought down.

Report this

By Fadel Abdallah, May 3, 2007 at 9:06 pm #

Kindly read these words by Rachel Corrie (the 23-year-old American peace activist who was crushed to death by a bulldozer paid for by US taxpayers as she tried to prevent the Israeli army from destroying homes in the Gaza Strip) - she tells us in her own words - through her emails to her mother - why she was in Gaza, protecting Palestinian families from the Israeli army that was bulldozing their homes and green houses:

“Love you. Really miss you. I have bad nightmares about tanks and bulldozers outside our house and you and me inside…. I am really scared for the people here. Yesterday, I watched a father lead his two tiny children, holding his hands, out into the sight of tanks and a sniper tower and bulldozers and Jeeps because he thought his house was going to be exploded….This is in the area where Sunday about 150 men were rounded up and contained outside the settlement with gunfire over their heads and around them, while tanks and bulldozers destroyed 25 greenhouses - the livelihoods for 300 people….I was terrified to think that this man felt it was less of a risk to walk out in view of the tanks with his kids than to stay in his house. I was really scared that they were all going to be shot and I tried to stand between them and the tank. This happens every day, but just this father walking out with his two little kids just looking very sad, just happened to get my attention more at this particular moment”, probably because I felt it was our translation problems that made him leave.”

- Rachel Corrie

Source: Guardian

Report this

By Fadel Abdallah, May 2, 2007 at 12:44 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

#67213 by Mad As Hell on 4/29 at 7:31 pm
(Unregistered commenter)

Mad As Hell (aka: Screwed up as Hell) wrote:
============
“Fadel:
As you continue to get closer and closer to your key point, that ALL Jews are inherently evil, I keep waiting for you to demand that the world EXTERMINATE all Jews and finish the job Hitler started.  It is the ONLY logical inference from all your arguments and posts--that you want EVERY Jew in the world killed.”
==================================
Well, Mad As Hell, I am not surprised that in your Zionist fanatic and screwed up mentality you have the audacity to attribute to people what they don’t say. This talk about “Jews are inherently evil” and that I “want EVERY Jew in the world killed” are your own words and the figment of your sick and insecure imagination, and your evil desire to mark me up as a Jew hater and anti-Semitic.

Now mark my words! I cannot be anti-Semitic because I am possibly more pure Semitic than yourself. I actually believe that there are so many good and noble Jews, in whom I place a great hope in helping the Palestinians get justice, while, at the same time, helping rescue Jews and Judaism from evil fanatic Zionists like you. In fact, I have a good number of close Jewish friends who are noble, sincere and the best human beings. Those are Jews I am willing to defend with my own life if they face persecution or harm. In doing this, I will be acting in the best tradition of my noble coreligionists, such as Saladin and many others before and after him who rescued the Jews from the persecution of the Inquisition, the Crusaders and lately the Jewish survivors of the Nazis. There is well-documented history about this, but I know you’re no reader seeking enlightenment to suggest references for you.

Moreover, your insistence on equating fanatic Zionism with Judaism is another indication that you’re ill informed and have a screwed up mentality. You should know by now that there are more Jews than you can count who are against Zionism as a racist and secular colonialist enterprise.

By way of conclusion, it’s not Jews or Judaism; it’s fanatic Zionism, stupid!

Report this

By Robert, May 1, 2007 at 5:41 am #

Hey Fadel...Its that same ole zionist attack dogs, but under different names.

Its the same synchronized fanatic zionist comments on this forum/thread & others. These guys are NO strangers to each other. Just take a look at the time that each comment was posted. Just a few minutes apart. ITS THAT FAMILIAR AIPAC/ISRAEL “INTERNET MEGAPHONE”!

The TRUTH hurts these ill willed zionists. Their loyalty is for Israel’s Apartheid policies. They don’t care about other people, universal Human Rights, equality and justice for all; they ONLY care if its ONLY good for Israel and/or Jews.

As for that “MFH” fellow, he keeps threatening TRUTHDIG with his tantrums about anti-semitism and his permanent boycott and last visit on TRUTHDIG.

Oh what a great loss its going to be for humanity!

DEMOCRACY, JUSTICE, HUMAN RIGHTS & EQUALITY FOR ALL PEOPLE ARE THE FOUNDATION FOR PEACE IN PALESTINE/ISRAEL.

Here is a recent link on the main topic of this thread:

“The Looming Challenges”

“Palestine and Peace”

By Hanan Ashrawi (04/28/2007)

http://www.counterpunch.org/ashrawi04282007.html

Report this

By Fadel Abdallah, April 30, 2007 at 8:27 pm #

To: Mad As Hell,"Jehovah" be Praised, Johnny, George and Righty:

While I continue to post hard facts, mostly from Jewish sources, you continue to dig out all the filth of the English dictionary thinking this would hurt me. In fact, I carry these curses as badges of honor, because they’re proof that I really managed to get under your thick skins. I am actually collecting and saving these curses hopefully to publish them in a future book.

Just for your knowledge, I can equally curse and insult you in five languages if I were to descend down to your lowly levels.

An Arabic proverb speaks to your types by saying:

“Each earthen-pot oozes the liquid it contains.”

I don’t blame you for displaying openly the types of miserable creators that you’re. I just feel so sorry for the sickness of your hearts and souls!

Report this

By Mad As Hell, April 29, 2007 at 7:31 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

Fadel:
As you continue to get closer and closer to your key point, that ALL Jews are inherently evil, I keep waiting for you to demand that the world EXTERMINATE all Jews and finish the job Hitler started.  It is the ONLY logical inference from all your arguments and posts--that you want EVERY Jew in the world killed.

I have NO idea why Truthdig allows such pure anti-Semites like you to post.

This is my last post and visit to Truthdig until they stop allowing such garbage.  You anti-semites can rule here as you taint a great man like Jimmy Carter with your hatred and filth.

Report this

By Allah Be Praised, April 29, 2007 at 12:38 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

Abdullah, Fadel:

What an asshole. You are scum and blame Jews for all the evil in this world. You are just typical Jew hating scum. No one really wants to hear your propaganda. May Allah the merciful & just send your soul to eternal damnation & suffering.
May the pigs inhabit your kitchen and may your body be left to rot in the desert for the vultures to feed upon.

Report this

By Johnny, April 29, 2007 at 12:28 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

Fadel:
Your Muslim Arab colors truly show through. According to you the Jews are the source of evil in this world. You are a moron and I now know why your people are so dumb, they actually believe those lies they are being told by their dictatorial theocratic Islamic regimes.

Report this

By George, April 29, 2007 at 12:22 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

Fadel Abdullah:
Your comments blame Jews for all the evil in the world. It is more likely that your kind ARE THE ACTUAL CAUSE FOR THIS EVIL. It is liars like yourself that distort the truth and cause the world to hate Jews. That is exactly what the Nazis did. But then there is no difference between you and them.
FUCK YOU.

Report this

By Righty, April 29, 2007 at 12:09 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

LOOKS LIKE FADEL ABDULLAH IS SPAMMING AGAIN.
HE IS JUST ANOTHER PROPAGANDA MINISTER OF ANTI-JEWISH HATE.
JUST IGNORE HIM.

Report this

By Fadel Abdallah, April 28, 2007 at 3:09 pm #

Read the following short articles from different sources and reach your own enlightened conclusions!
=============================
5. Irish Peace Laureate Shot By Israeli Troops at Non-Violent Protest - Why Isn’t This News?
By Robert Naiman (Source: MyDD)

Those who blame the Palestinian people for their fate, attributing it to Palestinian violence, and faulting the Palestinians for not emulating Gandhi, King, or Mandela (whose role in the “armed struggle” is always conveniently elided for the purpose of this comparison) should periodically ask themselves, when Palestinians do engage in nonviolent protest, and are subjected to brutal repression as a result, how come the mainstream U.S. media don’t pay any attention?

Wouldn’t this be a precondition for a successful nonviolent protest strategy? That people find out about it? Imagine if U.S. news organizations had not reported on lunch counter sit-ins in the South, Freedom Rides, or the Montgomery bus boycott - and the repression that resulted. What if no-one reported on the deaths of Evers, Goodman, Schwerner, Chaney. Would these protests have been as effective?

That U.S. political, diplomatic, and financial support for the Israeli government’s policies in the West Bank provide crucial support for these policies should be beyond debate. Don’t the American people have a right to know what’s going on?

6. Prisoners in Israel
By MWC NEWS

Tamimi, 46, was jailed in 1993 for killing an Israeli settler in the West Bank. His own background is also bloody – two of his brothers were killed by Israeli troops, as well as his wife’s father and sister.

His case has sparked controversy in Israel, where a judge and a member of the Israeli Knesset have opposed giving him the US $90,000 operation because he was convicted of killing an Israeli.

Overall, the 10,000 Palestinian prisoners held in Israel are not significantly discriminated against when it comes to medical care because all prisoners in Israel receive poor treatment regardless of background, claims NGO Physicians for Human Rights, Israel (PHR).

7. What cease-fire?
By Amira Hass (Source: Ha’aretz)

“Cease-fire” is yet another hollow term, showing that the Palestinian representatives - elected or not, Hamas or Fatah or Palestine Liberation Organization-Tunis, from Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas to the last spokesman of the Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ “Brigades” - keep falling into the traps set for them by the politics of Israeli occupation.

On the Saturday and Sunday before the Palestinians “broke the cease-fire,” Israel Defense Forces soldiers killed nine Palestinians. Among them was a 17-year-old girl, a 15-year-old boy and a policeman who was on the roof of his house and was not involved in any “battle.”

Report this

By Fadel Abdallah, April 28, 2007 at 3:04 pm #

Read the following short articles from different sources and reach your own enlightened conclusions!

3. Let Taibeh go to Palestine
By Gilad Sharon (Source: Ha’aretz)

Change the citizenship of Israel’s Arabs

On the issue of a Jewish state versus a state of all its citizens, it must be said without embarrassment and without apology: Of course we want to live in a democratic country, but at the same time we want to live in a Jewish country. Israel was not established to bring a democratic regime to a benighted region. Israel was established as a national home for the Jewish people.

Representatives of the Arab sector and Knesset members from the Arab parties are discriminated against; this is a fact. It is possible to try to whitewash this. It is possible to appoint someone as deputy Knesset speaker, or bring a representative into the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, but then it is impossible to talk about security matters, and all the reports are moved to the subcommittees.

Therefore, as I see it, the goal has to be a significant Jewish majority among the citizens of Israel, forever. Minorities have to be totally loyal to the state, to fulfill all the obligations and enjoy all the rights, like the Druze, some of the Bedouins and the Circassians. An example of action in this direction is changing the citizenship of the Arabs of Umm al Fahm, Taibeh, Jaljulya, Kafr Bara and so on - as far as and including Kafr Qasem. After all, there is no real reason why Qalqilyah and Tul Karm should be Palestinian and Taibeh Israeli. This is a mistake and nothing more.

4. U.S. eyes potential $65 million bomb sale to Israel
By Jim Wolf (Source: Reuters)

What happened to Peace?

The Bush administration announced on Friday what would be the first officially disclosed sale of U.S. military equipment to Israel since the end of Israel’s armed conflict with Lebanon in 2006.

In a notice to Congress, the Pentagon’s Defense Security Cooperation Agency said Israel had requested as many as 3,500 MK-84 “general purpose” bombs, spares and repair parts plus U.S. government technical assistance in a deal worth up to $65 million if all options are exercised.

Report this

By Fadel Abdallah, April 28, 2007 at 2:56 pm #

Read the following short articles from different news sources and get an education that will make you see the light!
========================================
1. Will I hang the flag?
By Gideon Levy (Source: Ha’aretz)

There is a flagholder installed in my garden. The previous residents used it to fly the flag of their favorite soccer team. Since they left, the holder has remained orphaned. During my childhood, there was no question about it: My parents would take the national flag out of the cupboard each year, proudly display it on the balcony, and it would drown in the street’s sea of blue and white. I would look with excitement at our decorated balcony: I was proud of the flag…

I clearly remember when I stopped hanging the flag. It was after I saw the settlers dashing through Palestinian villages, fearsome flags waving from their cars to confront and provoke the residents of the land they had invaded. I said to myself that a flag intended for provocation and confrontation is not my flag. I later saw the flag as a land marker, establishing ownership that is not ours. In every settlement and outpost they hung the flag that was my flag as well to “establish facts on the ground.”

2. When an Anti-Semite is Not an Anti-Semite
By Arthur Neslen (Source: CounterPunch)

What do Einstein, Mahatma Ghandi, Ehud Olmert and, yes, me all have in common? We could each be censured for racism according to the European Union Monitoring Centre’s ‘working definition of anti-Semitism’ which was last week adopted by the UK’s National Union of Students as official policy.

This definition has lately been sweeping all before it, taking endorsements everywhere from the All Party Parliamentary Report on anti-Semitism to the US state department’s special envoy for combating anti-Semitism. The British government has pledged to re-examine its own definition of anti-Semitism if the EUMC’s successor body, the Fundamental Rights Agency, ratifies the new lingua franca…

By the new standard though, it might be an anti-Semitic ‘double standard’ to single him out for criticism when the hateful words of the former Indian leader, Mahatma Ghandi, are still being taught in British schools. In 1938, Ghandi said he believed that ‘Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French.’ Thus might he disbar himself from speaking at a British college today.

Einstein though would really bomb. After the Deir Yassin massacre that killed more than 250 Palestinian civilians in 1948, he signed a letter to the New York Times describing the Herut Party (a.k.a Likud) as ‘closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties’. Its then-leader (and Israel’s future prime minister) Menachem Begin, represented ‘fascist elements’ in Israel, and his party had ‘openly preached the doctrine of the fascist state’. So Einstein, would flunk the EUMC’s ‘comparing Israeli policy to the Nazis’ test.

Report this

By Fadel Abdallah, April 28, 2007 at 7:56 am #

If you think you heard it all about the evil Israeli connection to all the evil in the world just listen to this:

A report I just heard on Chicago Public Radio about the Guantanamo prisoners reveals that one of the torture techniques interrogators use against the Muslim detainees is to strip them naked and drape them up with the Israeli flag, forcing them to kiss the cross, forcing them to drink their own urine, besides other unheard of methods of torture. But the most interesting of all these is to use of the Israeli flag as a weapon of torture!

Another piece of information from free independent sources indicate that between 8 thousand and 10 thousand Israeli Mossad agents entered Iraq with the American occupying army. They are the ones mostly planning suicide bombing in Sunni and Shia areas to inflame the passions and the civil war among Iraqis.

American military in the service of Israel and evil Israelis in the service of U.S. military will leave us with a legacy which will be the cause for a thousand year hatred between these two in their unholy alliance and the Arab and Muslim world!

The Israeli apartheid wall was built with American taxpayers’ money and with the full blessing of Bush and his gang. In light of this it’s almost naive of ask evil Bush to tear down this wall, as two other pieces on Truthdig ask. It is also inappropriate to address Bush as “Mr. Bush”; he should be addressed as, “Evil, Liar Bush” instead.

Report this

By Fadel Abdallah, April 23, 2007 at 8:58 pm #

#65957 by Righty on 4/23 at 7:47 pm
(Unregistered commenter)

I really got under your skin, kido! Enjoy your eternal Hell!

Report this

By Righty, April 23, 2007 at 7:47 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

Fadel:
You are not high in the sky but down in the mud.
You are an anti-Jewish scum bag who would have turned Jews into the Nazis with a smile.
You are without merit and a liar. You claim to be a peace loving Muslim but that also is a lie.
You are a disgrace in the eyes of G-d and man and you will face your maker when you die. It is then you will realize that 72 virgins are not awaiting you and that Allah will not be greeting you. Only the Hellfire of your own lies await your soul for all eternity.

Report this

By Fadel Abdallah, April 23, 2007 at 1:38 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

To: #65616 by Righty on 4/21 at 9:50 pm

An Arabic proverb speaks to your filthy types when it says:

“Clouds high in the sky are not harmed by the barking of dogs!”

Report this

By Tony Wicher, April 22, 2007 at 5:20 pm #

Fadel,

You are right. You can find some of the best articles against Zionism in Haaretz. That does mean that you do have to give Israel that much credit - they do allow such articles to be published, and that means they do respect freedom of speech. They do have a “Jews-only” democracy; now if we could only persuade them to get rid of the “Jews only” part, and include everyone!
The most hopeful thing I have read lately is this article from the Nation online posted in my ODS:
posted April 17, 2007. Is Asmi Bishara the Mandela, the democratic leader Palestinians need?

Israel’s Strategic Threat

by Neve Gordon

In early April the rumors about Dr. Azmi Bishara, the most famous Arab Knesset member, began circulating on the Internet: Bishara is afraid
to return to Israel; Bishara intends to resign from the Knesset; the Israeli Security Agency has decided to accuse Bishara of treason and espionage. The gag order preventing the publication of any information
about Bishara’s actions made the rumors all the more intriguing. What did Bishara, in fact, do?

Bishara, a Christian Palestinian citizen of Israel from Nazareth, established the National Democratic Assembly known as Balad in 1995 and became a Knesset member in 1996. Since then he has been interrogated several times by the Israeli Security Agency, and has
been charged and found not guilty twice: once for organizing visits to Syria for Israeli Arabs who wished to visit family members and a second time for speeches he gave in Syria and Israel praising Hezbollah’s resistance in southern Lebanon and Palestinian opposition in the occupied territories. His visit to Beirut following last year’s Lebanon war, alongside his claim that Israel was committing war crimes in Lebanon and carrying out genocide against Shiite Muslims, was, for many Israelis, yet another indication that Bishara has been using his
parliamentary immunity to harm Israel. Many Jewish members of the Knesset have argued for years that Bishara is a fifth column and that Israeli democracy has a right and indeed an obligation to defend
itself against the Bishara threat.

(continued below)

Report this

By Tony Wicher, April 22, 2007 at 5:17 pm #

The Nation article, continued from above

But what, one might ask, are Bishara’s new offenses? It is, after all, highly unlikely that he is a spy on the payroll of a foreign entity.  And while one may not like his uncompromising opposition to Israeli
and American regional policies and his admiration for Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah’s militancy and strategic intelligence, expressing such views does not in and of itself jeopardize Israel’s existence. Bishara, it seems, is a threat not because of any particular action or
statement but because he has become a symbol of a new kind of opposition within Israel.

During the past few months, political activists and members of the Palestinian intellectual elite within Israel, all of whom are Israeli
citizens, have drafted four documents that articulate how they conceive the state’s future. The underlying assumption of all of these documents is that as long as Israel is defined as a Jewish state, its laws will always fall short of basic democratic principles and, more particularly, the right of all its citizens to full equality.

The authors of the documentcalled “The Democratic Constitution” maintain that the Arab citizens of Israel should be considered a “homeland minority” with national rights. The idea is to transform
> Israel into a bilingual and multicultural democracy for all its citizens, rather than a Jewish democracy, which they argue is an oxymoron. Such transformation would inevitably mean changing the laws of citizenship and immigration so that citizenship would no longer be granted automatically to any Jew wishing to immigrate but rather to
anyone born within Israel’s territory or whose parent or spouse is a citizen, or to people persecuted due to their political beliefs.

Not long after the documents’ publication, Israel’s second-largest newspaper, Ma’ariv, reported a meeting between the head of the security agency, Yuval Diskin, and Prime Minister Ehud Olmert. During
> the meeting Diskin warned Olmert that the radicalization of Israel’s Arab citizens constitutes a “strategic threat to the state’s existence.” Diskin added that “the proliferation of the visionary
documents published by the different Arab elites in Israel is particularly worrisome, [since] the documents are united by their conception of Israel as a state for all its citizens and not a Jewish
state.” The head of the security services concluded that “the separatist and subversive patterns represented by the elites might engender a new direction and mobilize the masses.”

Balad sent a letter protesting Diskin’s assertions, arguing that legitimate political activity whose aim is to change the state’s character should not be considered subversive or dangerous. According
to Ha’aretz, the Israeli Security Agency replied that it “would foil the activity of anyone seeking to harm Israel’s Jewish or democratic character, even if that activity was carried out by legal means.”

Diskin’s words are telling. He admits not only that anyone who strives to alter the Jewish character of the state is considered an enemy and will be treated as such but that the secret service has no respect for democratic practices and procedures. It is precisely within the context of the four historic documents that one should understand the recent accusations against Bishara. More than anything else, Bishara constitutes a symbolic threat, since he personifies the recent demand of the Palestinian elite to transform Israel from a Jewish democracy
to a democracy for all its citizens.

Report this

By Righty, April 21, 2007 at 9:50 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

Fadel Abdallah:
We have read your prior anti-Jewish rantings. You are a liar and another propaganda minister, like Federer, for the arab league and other anti-Jewish organizations in this world.
Jews are not rounding up Muslim Arabs and leading them to gas chambers. The Muslims Arabs on the West Bank and in Gaza are free to leave anytime they want. Their worst enemy is their own people who call themselves their leaders, Hamas, Hezbollah, Fatah and other terrorist groups who want to be in control of their futures.
Screw scum like you who use democratic news sources in Israel to support your anti-Jewish comments.
Those sources you use are writers who are free to publish their comments in the Israeli free press.
They are not truth but opinions of individuals.
That is something a person like you cannot begin to understand.
Your people have no free press. Your people live under oppression by your Islamic regimes and have no free speech. Yet you have the nerve to attack Israel who allows Arab Israelis more freedom and higher standards of living than they would have in Arab countries. I do not see Israeli Arabs leaving Israel to live in Islamic countries.
You are scum pal and I can smell your stink from 10,000 miles away.

Report this

By Fadel Abdallah, April 21, 2007 at 9:38 am #

A good reading on how Israel and the Zionists use the tragic event of the Holocaust as a political asset to justify their own Holocaust against the Palestinians! I strongly believe that Ha’aretz better serves the Palestinian cause than all Arabs and Muslims combined. It must be the ultimate source of choice for all truth and peace seekers.
================================
The Holocaust as political asset
By Amira Hass (Source: Ha’aretz)

Turning the Holocaust into a political asset serves Israel primarily in its fight against the Palestinians. When the Holocaust is on one side of the scale, along with the guilty (and rightly so) conscience of the West, the dispossession of the Palestinian people from their homeland in 1948 is minimized and blurred.

The phrase “security for the Jews” has been consecrated as an exclusive synonym for “the lessons of the Holocaust.” It is what allows Israel to systematically discriminate against its Arab citizens. For 40 years, “security” has been justifying control of the West Bank and Gaza and of subjects who have been dispossessed of their rights living alongside Jewish residents, Israeli citizens laden with privileges.

Security serves the creation of a regime of separation and discrimination on an ethnic basis, Israeli style, under the auspices of “peace talks” that go on forever. Turning the Holocaust into an asset allows Israel to present all the methods of the Palestinian struggle (even the unarmed ones) as another link in the anti-Semitic chain whose culmination is Auschwitz. Israel provides itself with the license to come up with more kinds of fences, walls and military guard towers around Palestinian enclaves.

Separating the genocide of the Jewish people from the historical context of Nazism and from its aims of murder and subjugation, and its separation from the series of genocides perpetrated by the white man outside of Europe, has created a hierarchy of victims, at whose head we stand. Holocaust and anti-Semitism researchers fumble for words when in Hebron the state carries out ethnic cleansing via its emissaries, the settlers, and ignore the enclaves and regime of separation it is setting up. Whoever criticizes Israel’s policies toward the Palestinians is denounced as an anti-Semite, if not a Holocaust denier. Absurdly, the delegitimization of any criticism of Israel only makes it harder to refute the futile equations that are being made between the Nazi murder machine and the Israeli regime of discrimination and occupation.

The institutional abandonment of the survivors is rightly denounced across the board. The transformation of the Holocaust into a political asset for use in the struggle against the Palestinians feed on those same stores of official cynicism, but it is part of the consensus.

Report this

By Robert, April 17, 2007 at 11:21 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

LOOK AT THE CHILDREN OF PALESTINE & ISRAEL’S “BRUTAL” IDF:

http://poetryforpalestine.spaces.live.com

Report this

By Lefty, April 17, 2007 at 1:17 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

Re: #63138 by Peter on 4/10 at 9:22 am
(Unregistered commenter)

“The only thing Jews got from being pacifists were being oppressed and murdered by the Christian & Muslim worlds. Zionism was a necessity for Jews to free themselves from being dominated by these groups of people which number around 3 billion today.
This Zionism makes the world uncomfortable. These nations have finally realized that they are not going to get away with murdering Jews any longer.
Zionism was and will always be a matter of self preservation for the Jewish people.”
--------------------------------------------------
Yes, the reaction of the former European/Arab oppressors is predictable.  They don’t like having a nuclear missile pointing at their noses.  Tough shit!  Imagine how these same bone heads would dread the news of a Black African Nation acquiring nuclear weapon capability! Wooops! LMAO!

Report this

By Robert, April 11, 2007 at 7:23 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

“Deir Yassin Remembered”

By: Daniel A. McGowan
The Link - Volume 29, Issue 4

“Early in the morning of Friday, April 9, 1948, commandos of the Irgun, headed by Menachem Begin, and the Stern Gang attacked Deir Yassin, a village with about 750 Palestinian residents. It was several weeks before the end of the British Mandate. The village lay outside the area that the United Nations recommended be included in a future Jewish State.”

“By noon over 200 people, half of them women and children, had been systematically murdered. Four commandos died at the hands of resisting Palestinians using old Mausers and muskets. Twenty-five male villagers were loaded into trucks, paraded through the Zakhron Yosef quarter in Jerusalem, and then taken to a stone quarry along the road between Givat Shaul and Deir Yassin and shot to death. The remaining residents driven to Arab East Jerusalem.”

“The final body count of 254 was reported by the New York Times on April 13, a day after they were finally buried. By then the leaders of the Haganah had distanced themselves from having participated in the attack and issued a statement denouncing the dissidents of Irgun and the Stern gang, just as they had after the attack on the King David Hotel in July, 1946.”

“Nor was the massacre simply “a male thing.” Palestinian women and children brutally massacred and Jewish women took part in the attack and the subsequent mopping up operations. Jacques de Reynier, a French Red Cross employee who arrived after the massacre, described the Irgunists and the Sternists as follows:

‘All are young men and women, including teenagers, armed to the teeth with pistols, machine guns, grenades, and large cutlasses, most of them covered with blood, in their hands. A young woman, beautiful but with eyes of a murderess, shows me her cutlass, still dripping with blood as she carries it around like a trophy. They are the ‘mopping up team,’ which probably goes about its business very conscientiously.4 ‘

Even Nathan Friedman-Yellin, successor to Stern Gang founder Yair Stern, condemned the “shocking” murder of women, termed the attack a “massacre,” and said is was “too cruel.” He complained that it was not authorized by the leadership and that it spoiled “our image” in the eyes of the Soviet Union. Others, like his Sternist rival, Yisrael Scheib (Eldad), and Menachem Begin insisted that without Deir Yassin “the state of Israel could never have been established.”

{Daniel A. McGowan is a Professor Emeritus at Hobart and William Smith Colleges and the current director of Deir Yassin Remembered, a group of Jews and Non-Jews working together to build a memorial at Deir Yassin on the west side of Jerusalem.}

***************************************************

For the rest of the TRUTH about Deir Yassin Remembered by Daniel McGowan (pages 1-7)...click on the link:

http://www.ameu.org/page.asp?iid=101&aid=143&pg=5

Report this

By Peter, April 10, 2007 at 9:22 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

The only thing Jews got from being pacifists were being oppressed and murdered by the Christian & Muslim worlds.
Zionism was a necessity for Jews to free themselves from being dominated by these groups of people which number around 3 billion today.
This Zionism makes the world uncomfortable. These nations have finally realized that they are not going to get away with murdering Jews any longer.
Zionism was and will always be a matter of self preservation for the Jewish people.

Report this

By Mad As Hell, April 10, 2007 at 7:53 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

Another Fadel Fantasy!

Here’s a very different, and well-documented examination of the events at Deir Yassin.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/de ir_yassin.html

Note the details Arab propaganda omits, like Arab fighters were trying to shut the road between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, and Deir Yassin was a strategic point on that road.  Or that there was heavy armed resistance that resulted in MOST of the Arab deaths there--not “massacred” but fighters dying in battle.  Or that numerous Arab fighters disguised themselves as women and hid among them to attack the Jews (Similar tactics using ambulances and other non-combatant items and people are still used today).  Or that when the fighters disguised as women, and the women they were among, refused to go to the safe area.  Or that ANY attrocities that may have been committed, were roundly condemned BY JEWS!

And finally, that Fadel, like Federer, sees this as justification for blowing up a pizza parlor full of children.  Fadel, let me give you a word of advice: You cannot claim the moral “high ground” by committing attrocities.

Report this

By Fadel Abdallah, April 9, 2007 at 8:57 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

This Day in History! Lest We Forget!!

Early in the morning of April 9, 1948, commandos (terrorists) of the Irgun, headed by Menachem Begin and the Stern Gang, attacked Deir Yassin, a village with about 750 Palestinian residents. The village lay outside of the area to be assigned by the United Nations to the Jewish State; it had a peaceful reputation. But it was located on high ground in the corridor between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. Deir Yassin was slated for occupation under Plan Dalet and the mainstream Jewish defense force, the Haganah, authorized the irregular terrorist forces of the Irgun and the Stern Gang to perform the takeover.

In all over 100 men, women, and children were systematically murdered. Fifty-three orphaned children were literally dumped along the wall of the Old City, where they were found by Miss Hind Husseini and brought behind the American Colony Hotel to her home, which was to become the Dar El-Tifl El-Arabi orphanage.

This is another example of Israel’s planting the seeds of terrorism in the area! Now, once in a while they are made to have a taste of their own medicine!

Report this

By Robert, April 8, 2007 at 9:28 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

“ISRAEL DOESN’T WANT PEACE” - Haaretz - Israel News

By GIDEON LEVY

04/09/2007

“Israel makes a point of setting prerequisites and believes it has an exclusive right to do so. But, time and time again, Israel avoids the most basic prerequisite for any just peace - an end to the occupation. Of all the questions asked during his Passover interviews, no one bothered to ask Olmert why he didn’t react with excitement to the recent Arab initiatives, without preconditions? The answer: real estate. The real estate of the settlements.”

*****************************************************

Well...I must thank Gideon Levy for this article dated 4/9/2007.

My comment #62615 on 4/06/2007 echoed almost the same message and narrative.

Here is the link to rest of Gideon Levy’s article:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/846420.html

Report this

By Robert, April 8, 2007 at 12:26 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

“How Can Children of the Holocaust Do Such Things”

“A Jewish Plea”

By SARA ROY

April 7 / 8, 2007

“For my mother and father Judaism meant bearing witness, raging against injustice and refusing silence. It meant compassion, tolerance, and rescue. In the absence of these imperatives, they taught me, we cease to be Jews.

Many of the people, both Jewish and others, who writeabout Palestinians and Arabs fail to accept the fundamental humanity of the people they are writing about, a failing born of ignorance, fear and racism. Within the organized Jewish community especially, it has always been unacceptable to claim that Arabs, Palestinians especially, are like us, that they, too, possess an essential humanity and must be included within our moral boundaries, ceasing to be “a kind of solution,” a useful, hostile “other” to borrow from Edward Said. That any attempt at separation is artificial, an abstraction.”

“Why is it virtually mandatory among Jewish intellectuals to oppose racism, repression and injustice almost anywhere in the world and unacceptable--indeed, for some, an act of heresy--to oppose it when Israel is the oppressor, choosing concealment over exposure?”

“What are Jews now capable of resisting: tyranny? Oppression? Occupation? Injustice? We resist none of these things, no more.  For too many among us they are no longer but necessary and good-we cannot live, survive without them. What does that make us? We look at ourselves and what do we see: a non-Jew, a child, whose pain we inflict effortlessly, whose death is demanded and unquestioned, bearing validity and purpose.”
***************************************************

An outstanding article by Sara Roy and one that exposes her Judaism vs Zionism.

Here is the link to Sara Roy’s article:

http://www.counterpunch.org/roy04072007.html

Report this

By Tony Wicher, April 7, 2007 at 7:11 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

Reply to Robert

“What do the Palestinians have to defend themselves from this brutal nuclear powered regime?”

Nothing but God, my friend - and world opinion.

Report this

By Federer, April 7, 2007 at 3:15 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

test: why am I getting “You are not authorized to perform this action” when I tried to post and haven’t received a reply to my registration?

Report this

By Tony Wicher, April 7, 2007 at 10:57 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

Righty,

I quit this thread mostly because you keep repeating the same things no matter what anyone else says, and I got tired of wasting my time. There have been many supporters of Zionism on this thread, including Mad as Hell and others, that were worth communicating with, but you are just a broken record.

Federer,

You really should check out the One Democratic State yahoo group. There are people there living in the West Bank and Gaza who are really advocating an ODS position and trying to form an opposition political party. I believe these people are in danger from Palestinian militants who regard ODS as traitors to their cause of “national liberation”, as well as Zionists who fear the possibility of ODS becoming popular far more than they fear the Palestinian militants. These people need all the help they can get. You have much valuable knowledge to offer. The group is at

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/one-democratic-state/

Please send me your private email address and I will give you more particulars. My email address is:

twicher at speakeasy dot net

Report this

By Robert, April 6, 2007 at 11:22 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

Palestine, Syria, Lebanon & the rest of the Arab states in the Middle-East will be willing to agree to a formal Peace Treaty with Israel, TODAY & EVERYDAY, if Israel agrees to withdraw back to the pre-June 1967 borders, which is only a 22% skeleton of Palestine.

Israel does NOT want to give any occupied Palestinian land. It continues to receive huge American aid & funds each year, $3-5 billion, continues to build new settlements & expand existing ones.

Israel is worried about all the aid that it gets from the American taxpayers. If there were a formal Peace Treaty with the Arab states, then Americans may start asking why should we continue to hand out all these billions of dollars to Israel?  If there is NO conflict, then may be cut those aid $$$ in half.

One may wonder if Israel just plainly benefits from the current stalemate of NO PEACE situation. They have all those stockpiles of “WDM’s” and the most sophisticated American made weapons. They control just about everything. From the U.S. Congress, Senate, GW & Cheney...etc…

What do the Palestinians have to defend themselves from this brutal nuclear powered regime?

Report this

By Righty, April 6, 2007 at 11:44 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

To This Forum:
These comments are going nowhere and have now become very repetitive & boring.
No one is getting any place debating on a subject which has become a one sided attack on Israel by a professional spammer named Federer.
There are also only 4 or 5 people actually making comments. Guess subject is not very important anyway. The whole situation over there is a religious conflict and nothing more. It will never end until the Islamic countries become a democracy and allow all people to worship as they please. 
Federer never came through with the objective polls I requested.
I am out of here.

Report this

By Interesed in Politics, April 6, 2007 at 4:08 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

It is amazing the length of time this thread has gone on.
Most threads on most blogs last no more than a week if that.
By their very nature controversial views are to be their basis controversial and have two sides.
However Mr. Carter seems to have a short term memory with many aspects to his presentations.
Take for example his views on the current Iraq debacle themselves.
Has he forgotten his experience with the Iranian crisis of the embassy takeover many years ago and the ill planned rescue attempt in the desert ?
Makes George Bush look like a trooper.
Has he forgetten that with his wonderful negotiations with North Korea that it led to North Korea not only producing and testing a nuclear bomb but being the primary irresponsible exporter of horrible nuclear and ballistic missile technologies and equipment to volatile regional customers.
All very deadly and serious with longer term repercussions.
In terms of Mr. Carter and his book and well as its marketing on talk shows one could say that he was bought and paid for by the Saudi Arabians.

Report this

By Mad As Hell, April 5, 2007 at 8:25 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)

Federer: 
a few things:
1) I condemn Goldstein and his actions just as much as you do.  He’s a monster and not a martyr. He deserves to have his grave spat upon.

2) Goldstein is the ONLY “suicide bomber” to come out of Israel. The only one.  There were terrorist incidents against Jewish civilians many times before before him and after.  In case you forgot (conveniently, I suppose) Palestinians attacked, held hostage and MURDERED the Israeli Olympic wrestling team ALL the way back in 1972, in Munich--a third country trying to