“I appreciate where you are coming from, but again, what ultimately defines “a caring decent manner?” This is an important question.  If there is no high moral reason for living right, then why not just appear to live right.  In other words, why not live the “do anything to get ahead, just don’t get caught” mentality?”

Chris,
You ask what being caring and decent is, here are a few examples:  a decent leader would not commit genocide in Iraq; a decent leader would not cut health benefits for U.S troops returning from Iraq and Afghanistan; a caring leader would nationalize medicine; a caring leader would implement a new energy policy so we don’t continue to destroy our environment; etc…

We have a devout Christian President, but his religiosity does not make him caring or decent.

Chris, it would be nice to think that humans are on a slightly higher level than Pavlov’s dog, and are able to do the “right thing” without being bribed.

“my point, is that we do not need to rely on and believe in mystics, mythology, fables and fairytales to act in a caring decent manner.”

I appreciate where you are coming from, but again, what ultimately defines “a caring decent manner?” This is an important question.  If there is no high moral reason for living right, then why not just appear to live right.  In other words, why not live the “do anything to get ahead, just don’t get caught” mentality?

“Eleanore Kjellberg, what exactly defines the appropriate level of self control and discipline?  Different cultures see different actions as appropriate.  Which system is correct?  And why is it correct?”

Chris,
This is not a discussion about cultural relativism nor cultural anthropology—-what I am trying to say is not mysterious or philosophical, as ADULTS living in “our culture” certain behavior is tolerable, and other forms of behavior are not--my point, is that we do not need to rely on and believe in mystics, mythology, fables and fairytales to act in a caring decent manner.

Fables, perhaps, are useful when initially teaching morality to children.

Eleanore Kjellberg, what exactly defines the appropriate level of self control and discipline?  Different cultures see different actions as appropriate.  Which system is correct?  And why is it correct?

To reply #40605 Dr. Knowitall, PhD.

Dr hunter has NO skeletons in his closet. He guards himself by everyone knowing where he is at all times and also knowing what he is doing at all times. So idiots like yourself cant say he is doing anything wrong.

He strongly believes in global warming and that was a big topic for CCA to turn down for him.

Get some knowledge at least listen to the man talk before you start saying things like you said.

you can find him at itunes search Northland. All his sermons are there

“I have a question for Eleanore Kjellberg.  If “mythology” does not dictate morality, what logical reason does?  Enlighten me.”

Self-control and discipline should be secular character traits--fear caused by “mystical” religious ideology, seems like a primitive way to control behavior.

Tell me, do you still need mom to read you a bedtime story and make everything ok? So why do you need fables and authoritarian figures to control your behavior?

I have a question for Eleanore Kjellberg.  If “mythology” does not dictate morality, what logical reason does?  Enlighten me.

Also, I am a little saddened by the content of the comments on this site.  I am a christian fed up with right wing intolerance.  As I search through truthdig for common ground, all I find is left wing intolerance.

Praise for Rev. Hunter. Praise for the Nazis too, who made the trains run on time.

People like Hunter are the only way the CCA can pull itself up and out of the margins, but it seems their “board” is intent on staying on the sidelines. That’s OK with me, since their ideas for curing poverty are along the lines of cutting taxes on the wealthy. Curing disease means giving insurance companies immunity from the courts. They also believe money is equivalent to free speech: the more money, the free-er the speech...I consider this to be the most dangerous and harmful idea in the United States.

In any case, by refusing to participate in most of the great moral issues of our times, they are in fact not pursuing a moral agenda at all...even disregarding the rather primitive and authoritative nature of what they deem morality to begin with.

The battle over abortion was lost a very long time ago...the vast majority of Americans support Roe v Wade, so they’re wasting their time. They failed to make any progress legislatively, so now their trying to mold the courts, but that’s not going to work either.

The only thing they are succeeding in doing- aside from helping to elect unnatural disasters like Bush based on single issues like stem cells- is to stoke the fires of bigotry and hatred, especially toward gays. Others too, but their campaign against gays has been fairly successful as a grass roots ballot initiative-type movement in many places.

Being an optimist, and judging from the course of history, the anti-gay movement will fade away in the future as people become less ignorant.

Thus without people like Hunter, movements like CCA will be seen as just another one of those backwards right-wing groups, with a legacy analogous to the way in which we presently view the segregationists of years past.

“If he still is too stupid to see his anti-abortion stance is an obscene intrusion into the secular domain of governance trying to impose his will on all American women who are neither in his sect, and many not even Christian, why should we be applauding his half-baked rejection of bigoted fundamentalist trash positions?”

I couldn’t have said it better--it’s all a bunch of crap!  And what’s even crazier is the lack of concern about over-population.  We all better get concerned about environmental issues; if we don’t we will have NO FUTURE.

As one citizen raised as an Episcopalian who became too nauseated at that sect’s racism, anti-semitism, smugness, genteel snobbery, and general indifference to the values of Jesus of Nazareth, and resolved to be an atheist from age 16 on, and thus have lived happily ever after, among the secular humanist crowds, it is hard to resist gloating about the Rev. Joel Hunter hullabaloo.

If he still is too stupid to see his anti-abortion stance is an obscene intrusion into the secular domain of governance trying to impose his will on all American women who are neither in his sect, and many not even Christian, why should we be applauding his half-baked rejection of bigoted fundamentalist trash positions?

I say let the old fool burn in hell even tho no atheist believes in this mumbo jumbo anymore.
Maybe Guantanimo or Al-Grahib, under U.S. Fascist management is a close enough match to burn his silly ass. As for praiseworthies, maybe Truthdig can shovel a little deeper excavation to exhume a real one. Not many among the Christians, tho Bill Moyers is pretty sound. Meanwhile, Ahm jes gonna gloat all the way to the next secret Holy Rollers Meeting I can find. Halleluyah!
Ion C. Laskaris, Burllington,Vt. + iclrevusa.com

Thank you for acknowledging the consistency in Hunter’s convictions. Sadly, the religious right tends and the non-religious left tend to clump their issues. Global warning is a liberal issue, therefore we conservative Christians must be against the environmental cause. Pro-life is a Christian issue, therefore we must mindlessly endorse a deadly, clueless foreign policy if a pro-life President pursues it. Broad-minded men like Hunter are needed on each side of the culture wars. Bigotry and political chicanery are alive on both ends of the political spectrum.

Quite possibly CCA has run its course.  I don’t know how anyone can trust any of these guys.  Did Truthdig consider the possibility that Hunter has skeletons in his closet that “being out there” might help expose?  If he’s so concerned about issues of the human condition, what’s he doing in the CCA anyway?

Are we so feeble, that we still need mythology to control morality?