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Chris Hedges: Bring Down That Wall

Posted on Nov 20, 2006
fence
AP Photo / Nasser Nasser

A foreign peace activist holds on to a fence in front of Israeli security forces in riot gear during a protest against the construction of Israel’s separation barrier in the West Bank village of Bil’in near Ramallah in 2005.

By Chris Hedges

The last hope of halting Israel’s steady ghettoization of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip and calculated destruction of the Palestinian economy is the imposition of sanctions against Israel, especially the revoking of the $9 billion in U.S. loan guarantees.  If we allow Israel to complete its massive $2-billion project to ring Palestinians in militarized, pod-like encampments in Gaza and the West Bank with security barriers, walls and electric fences, we will condemn Israel and the Palestinians to endless cycles of violence that could ultimately, given the mounting rage and despair that grip the Middle East, doom the Jewish state.

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There is little dispute about the illegality of Israel’s actions.  The International Court of Justice has called on Israel to dismantle the security barrier under construction in the West Bank and asked outside states not to render any aid or assistance to the infrastructure.  But this call has been ignored, although even the U.S. State Department has gently admonished Israel for its behavior.  The U.S. loans that make the barrier and expansion of Jewish settlements possible were granted with the stipulation that if the Israeli government used the funds to build housing and infrastructure beyond the 1967 border known as the Green Line these funds would be deducted from the loans.  In April 2003, when Congress authorized the $9 billion in loan guarantees for Israel it said that the loans could be used “only to support activities in the geographic areas which were subject to the administration of the Government of Israel before June 5, 1967.”  The legislation warned that the loan guarantees shall be reduced “for activities which the President determines are inconsistent with the objectives and understandings reached between the United States and Israel regarding the implementation of the loan guarantee program.”  The State Department, acknowledging the misuse of the money, has made a symbolic deduction in the amount handed to the Israeli government and reduced the loan guarantees by $289.5 million.  But unless there is heavy pressure brought on Israel soon the project will be completed, made possible by Washington’s complicity and a callous disregard for justice. 

Israel is pumping hundreds of millions of dollars, some reports say as much as half a billion yearly, into its colonization of the West Bank.  Since 1967, Israel has spent more than $10 billion on its settlements, and the total estimated cost for the snaking security barrier, which slices deep into the West Bank and connects with settlements and security roads to create pod-like Palestinian ghettos, is at least $1.5 billion. The barrier is being used not only to annex Palestinian land but give Israel control of Palestinian aquifers and at least 40,000 acres of Palestinian farmland.  It has devastated Palestinian communities, often cutting them in half or denying farmers access to farmland.  Travel, even between communities on the West Bank, has become difficult, especially for men, and many have lost their jobs, plunging with their families into squalor and despair.

The spate of deadly attacks by Palestinian suicide bombers in Israel gave Israel the right to impose draconian measures.  A barrier running along the 1949 armistice/Green Line, which demarcates the boundary between Israel and Palestinian-held territory, was Israel’s prerogative.  But the barrier is being used as an excuse to seize Palestinian land, with 80 percent of the barrier cutting into Palestinian territory, often as deeply as 20 kilometers.  The barrier, which costs about $1 million per mile, will eventually be 703 miles long.  About 450 miles of the barrier are finished or under construction.  When it is done the Palestinians in the West Bank, like those in Gaza, will be caged like animals, with little ability to move, even to neighboring towns, find work or live beyond a subsistence level. 
The assault on Palestinian society has been accompanied by an alarming increase in Israeli attacks against Palestinians, including the current Israeli offensive in Gaza.  Fifteen tank shells landed this month in the town of Beit Hanoun, killing 19 people and wounding 40. Four women and nine children were among the dead. Two Palestinians were killed Saturday as Israel continued airstrikes and ground operations against suspected militant positions in the Gaza Strip, all coming a day after the U.N.  General Assembly urged an end to the escalating violence.
Israeli leaders, angered over Palestinian rocket attacks, have dismissed calls for restraint, with far-right cabinet minister Avigdor Lieberman calling for Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniya and other militant leaders to be sent to “paradise.”

When Yasir Arafat agreed to end his exile to return to Gaza, swallow his pride and formally recognize Israel’s right to exist, when he turned his Fatah fighters into a collaboration police force in the West Bank and Gaza, he was broke.  The communist states that had once bankrolled him had collapsed.  He was humbled to the Oslo peace accord, under which he took the bitter pill of accommodation with his detested Zionist enemy.  Unless Israel too feels pressure it will never seek accommodation with the Palestinians, relying instead on increasing forms of repression and mounting violence.  These measures, depriving Palestinians of hope and dignity, are the fuel of radical movements and ensure not peace but unending war.  Israel has ignored the terms stipulated for the U.S. loan guarantees, and so we have a choice—to uphold our own demands and international law or be a party to Israeli policies that will lead to an unraveling of the region’s stability.

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By Trade Show Display, March 13, 2011 at 11:54 pm Link to this comment

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By Trade Show Display, March 13, 2011 at 11:51 pm Link to this comment

Why are we still talking about this!

[url=“http://www.integratedexhibits.com/guide/index.php”]Trade Show
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By Robert, December 11, 2006 at 2:56 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

JIMMY CARTER: ISRAEL’S ‘APARTHEID’ POLICIES WORSE THAN SOUTH AFRICA’S

By Israel’s Haaretz News Service


“When Israel does occupy this territory deep within the West Bank, and connects the 200-or-so settlements with each other, with a road, and then prohibits the Palestinians from using that road, or in many cases even crossing the road, this perpetrates even worse instances of apartness, or apartheid, than we witnessed even in South Africa.”

Link to above for details of ‘who dares to speak out against basic Human Rights’:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/799476.html

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By Tony Wicher, December 8, 2006 at 6:45 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Reply to Comment #40919 by Ken on 12/05 at 5:24 pm

“To Frank Goodman, Sr:

I feel real sorry for you, you are full of hate.
I had a real down to earth conversation with Tony Wicher about the reality of the Israeli/Palestinian situation.
Now you start up your “beat the drums” religious phobia hate rant.
I really have no time for your childish comments.
I brought out very valid points about your one democratic multi-cultural state idea for Jews/Arabs and others.
I showed that this is an unworkable plan and that 2 states living side by side in peace is the only way at this point in time.”

——————————————————————-

Frank, I did apologize to Ken for losing patience with him before. We do seem to be communicating better now. However, we still disagree. He favors the two-state solution (as do Jimmy Carter and Michael Lerner and many other peace-minded people). My position has not changed. I continue to hold the position that only one democratic state will work. However, I keep pointing out that if Israelis will adopt this goal in principle, they will find themselves in a very strong negotiating position. It could be considered as an immigration problem. It takes a time to absorb a lot of immigrants. If Israel accepts in principle that three or four million Palestinians have to be repatriated somewhere within the area, it still remains to be determined how long this will take, how much resources will be required, who will provide them, what security guarantees there will be during the long period of transition, etc. Perhaps extensive civil lessons in democracy and tolerance for every citizen should be part of the program. Anything is possible if the goal is right and enough resources are provided.

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By Robert, December 7, 2006 at 5:11 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

RIGHTS GROUPS: ISRAEL SECURITY AGENCY(ISA) TORTURES DETAINEES (Jerusalem Post)

By Dan Izenberg


“Despite a 1999 High Court ruling prohibiting pain-causing interrogation techniques, the Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency) continues to torture and degrade Palestinian detainees in violation of international law, human rights spokespersons charged on Tuesday.

Moreover, one of the spokespersons said the government had ignored a 1994 Justice Ministry decision to transfer the investigation of complaints against Shin Bet interrogators from Shin Bet to the independent police Investigations Department.

These allegations came during a conference in Jerusalem sponsored by United against Torture and the Public Committee aginst Torture in Israel (PCATI).”


http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1164881827458&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

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By Robert, December 6, 2006 at 6:20 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

APARTHEID ISRAEL by Virginia Tilley

“The bankruptcy of Mr. Olmert’s speech did accomplish one useful task: it highlighted and capped the current state of world paralysis. In fact, no one knows what to do. Daily in the West Bank, land is taken, people are confined, jobs are ruined or lost, families are divided, hopes are crushed. Daily in Gaza, conditions are far worse, as close to a million people face starvation while mortars, bulldozers, and tanks grind up people’s lives. Anguished cries from Beit Hanoun “Why? Why?”- receive no answer from Israel or anyone else. As one commentator noted, no one notices Gaza as long as the Palestinian’s daily death toll remains in the single digits. We leave the Palestinians only the job of dying more dramatically to get any attention at all.”

Here is the link to the rest this tragic story:

http://www.counterpunch.org/tilley12052006.html

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By Tony Wicher, December 6, 2006 at 4:55 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Comment #40938 by Ken on 12/05 at 7:05 pm

I would enthusiastically support a solution involving two democratic states, one “Jewish” and one “Palestinian” living side by side as equals, but I happen to believe that such a solution is unworkable - it would be rather like solving the problem of race relations in the United States back in the 60’s by giving the blacks Alabama, Mississipi and Georgia. It is the “two state” solution that is unworkable and unrealistic, not the “one democratic state” solution. There are many many reasons for this. The Holy Land is one. It will not be partitioned.  This I believe.

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By Ken, December 5, 2006 at 8:05 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

To Tony Wicher:

Lets move on and stop the blame game.
The future is all that matters.
Peace between Arabs, Jews, Christians & everyone is the true goal.
Peace in the Middle East & the world will come when the Islamic & Secular dictatorships accept multi-cultural democratic forms of government.
Without this, all else will fail to bring peace.
Again, 2 democratic states living side by side is the only workable solution for Israel and the Arab Palestinian Muslims.
I think this topic has been exhausted and I must say goodbye.
Peace to you all,
God Bless

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By Frank Goodman, Sr., December 5, 2006 at 7:33 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

This was inadvertently posted to the wrong site. Here it is at the right place

(Continuation of previous comment)

You can purchase your oil needs from anyone who has it to sell. For that, you can export products needed by those who have too much oil, but not enough oranges and high definition TV. You can manufacture automobiles rather than machine guns to sell to people who need transportation more than they need to defend themselves from rabid humans who invade their land. When most Jews get used to living with others, they can join the United Nations with the promise to abide by all UN resolutions.

The best way to fight against any threat to destroy Israel is to prove by peaceful means that Judaphobia is unjustified. And do not mistake defense of Islam, as Judaphobia. Also, do not mistake US resolve for imperialism unless we promote the idea that our president is the ‘leader of the free world’. If America proclaims or claims to be the ‘only remaining superpower’, put her in her place in the United Nations and make her behave in a civilized world of peaceful intent. Don’t give up an inch of Israel to Russia, Turkey, or Saudi Arabia. Let all the Palestinians come home to help defend that land from all encroachments by militants and violent Zionist regimes. Let us join in the condemnation of Fascism, Nazism, totalitarianism wherever it is found.

Then, we shall surely enjoy peace and prosperity ever after.

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By Ken, December 5, 2006 at 6:24 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

To Frank Goodman, Sr:

I feel real sorry for you, you are full of hate.
I had a real down to earth conversation with Tony Wicher about the reality of the Israeli/Palestinian situation.
Now you start up your “beat the drums” religious phobia hate rant.
I really have no time for your childish comments.
I brought out very valid points about your one democratic multi-cultural state idea for Jews/Arabs and others.
I showed that this is an unworkable plan and that 2 states living side by side in peace is the only way at this point in time.
No one has been able to show me how your one state plan will protect a minority Jewish population, in the event the majority Islamic population votes for an Islamic run government, in present day Israel. Tony was not able to address my questions and stated he could not give me a 100% guarantee that the Jews would not become an oppressed minority.
Frank, it appears you have now gone bonkers.  I must have spoiled your perfect plan that was not thought out correctly.
I am sorry for that.
However, the goal is not whether your plan or my plan is correct, the only thing that matters is that there is peace between Arabs & Jews.
Right my friend ?
The 2 state solution is the only real chance for this to happen, we don’t want another Iraq !
Take care Frank and come to your senses man.
God Bless

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By Robert, December 5, 2006 at 3:09 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Ken “The Slyer” Schreier…is active again at his deceptive trail of lies.

Hey “Slyer”...Have you changed your full name to “Ken” only?

People are noticing the changes on this forum & other forums.

You may have changed your name code, but it doesn’t take too much to figure who is out there behind the curtain of lies & distortions.

The TRUTH will always knock you down where you belong.

Once a Slyer liar…always a Slyer liar!!!

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By Frank Goodman, Sr., December 5, 2006 at 7:55 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Comment #40629 by Ken on 12/03

Ken,

Your comment to Tony is full of lies, distortions, obfuscation, and outright devious Zionist poisoning of the well of knowledge.

First, it is perfectly reasonable to advocate for freedom and justice for Jews and Muslims in this world of multi-cultural development. Jews have their term, ‘anti-Semitism’, for anyone who opposes the excesses of Zionism. We need a term to apply to Zionists and others who exhibit ‘Islamiphobia’. That is the term, Islamiphobia. Anyone with a violent and reactive phobia is ‘rabid’. As a rabid dog with hydrophobia due to rabies.

From now on anyone who tags me or anyone else as anti-Semitic, I shall tag them as ‘rabid’. For anyone who fears Islam, I shall tag, ‘Islamiphobic’. That goes for you, Ken, and all your ilk, who stump for the violence of Israel. Israel is not a Jewish state, but an Islamiphobic empire. Though Jews as a religious people, have always had their difficulties in there own civility toward other Jews, they excel at name calling of others who happen to differ with them on details of religion and the intent of God toward the sons-of-Isaac. Now we have two epithets that we can use toward those who exhibit anti-Islamic sentiment. We apply the term, Islamiphobic, to all who fear Islam. To those Jews who fight actively to displace Islam, Christianity, or any other religion, we apply ‘rabid Jew’.

While I am at it, I also propose a term for Islamists who would displace Judaism, Christianty, or any other religion, as ‘rabid Islamists’. And instead of anti-Semitic, let us use ‘Judaphobic’. But, let it apply only to those who exhibit a real fear of Jews. Do not use it for kind, considerate, tolerant and loving Jews who can and do live in cooperative spirit of democracy with other people. For those who are mildly critical of the excessive claims of Jews, as ‘Chosen People’, let them use the term ‘Critics’ of super racism. Remember the idea that elevated the Aryan Race to one of superiority over all other people? It is the one that spawned the Hitler doctrine of elimination. Hitler intended to eliminate all humans on the face of the Earth except those he designated as ‘Aryan’. It is the same sick politics as Zionism, though Zionism has Jews as the Super Race, rather than Aryans.

Let us not cross the intent and use any epithet incorrectly. When you oppose all Jews, you are Judaphobic, not anti-Semitic. When you fear Muslims, you are Islamaphobic, not anti-Arab.

Jews can rely upon the decent people of the world to work for their legitimate rights without being Islamiphobic. You can join with your fellow man from all religions to work for equal rights and justice within your own nation and in the world at large. You do not need nuclear bombs and your IDS to defend yourselves from peace loving people anywhere.

Continued

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By Tony Wicher, December 4, 2006 at 9:48 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Replay to Comment #40629 by Ken on 12/03 at 12:05 pm

“I still do not hear any real working plan !”

I do not have a plan. That is for Israelis and Palestinians to work out. Plans concern strategy and tactics leading to an end. I offer you only the end which is one democratic state with a constitution defended by a united people and an integrated army of Palestinians and Israelis. I tell you that if you adopt this as the end, you will find the means. 

You say, “The United Nations is not a place for Jews to rely on for protection or fairness !
The oil rich arab countries have never given significant amounts of money to relieve Arab Muslim economic suffering in the West Bank, Gaza or Lebanon. If they did, those people would not have the ghettos they have today !”

You see, Ken, you will never have peace until you acknowledge that your part in creating war. You don’t want to admit any responsibility at all, nor are you willing to admit to any sort of charity or good intentions on the part of the Muslims. You are so sadly mistaken in this. If you will admit your responsiblity for the plight of the Palestinians, not in word but in deed, by fully repariating them, you will find that the Muslims are not your enemies any more, either in the United Nations or elsewhere. But though Ahmedinejad and others keep saying this over and over, all you can see is demonic islamofascists trying to kill you. It is too bad.

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By Robert, December 4, 2006 at 7:52 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

READ & WATCH FORMER PRESIDENT JIMMY CARTER “THE TRUTH” ON PALESTINIAN/ISRAELI ISSUES/CONFLICT:


THE AMERICAN FORMER PRESIDENT DARES TO SPEAK OUT & TO TELL THE TRUTH.


JIMMY CARTER: “Sure, that’s what you say, and that’s the general consensus in the United States. The fact is that, when the Palestinians dug under the Israeli wall from Gaza and captured the Israeli soldier, one soldier, at the time, Israel was holding 9,200 Palestinians prisoner, including 300 children, some of them 12 years old, and holding almost 100 women prisoner.

And immediately, the Palestinians who took the soldier said, ‘We want to swap this soldier for some of our women and children.’ And the Israelis rejected that proposal and refused to swap at all with the Palestinians in the West Bank. That was the key issue.

So it’s right that the Palestinians took a soldier, which they should release. But for Israel to keep 9,000 Palestinians and not release any of them is something that you don’t mention in the question, and it’s generally no even known in this country.”


FULL INTERVIEW OF FORMER PRESIDENT JIMMY CARTER.

One can read full the transcript of interview on NPR and watch video on:

ABC’s Good Morning America

DemocracyNow

On Charlie Rose

Youtube


http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=717

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By Ken, December 3, 2006 at 1:05 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

To Tony Wicher:

I still do not hear any real working plan !
The United Nations is not a place for Jews to rely on for protection or fairness !
The oil rich arab countries have never given significant amounts of money to relieve Arab Muslim economic suffering in the West Bank, Gaza or Lebanon. If they did, those people would not have the ghettos they have today !
The arab countries created the ghetto situation by trying to destroy Israel.
In 1948 and in subsequent wars , the arab nations told the arabs in the newly formed state of Israel to leave, so that they could destroy Israel, once destroyed, they could return and take the land back.
Well the arab nations lost and the Palestinian arabs became homeless and found themselves in the middle of nowhere ! 
The Jews are not to blame for their present situation, their arab brothers are !
But to look ahead and not back, how do we solve their problems ?
The only real solution is 2 democratic states living side by side in peace.
Then, once the Palestinian democracy is seen to be functional, and really a true democratic state, Israel would be very willing to have stable relations with this new democracy. Trade and travel between them would increase. Both Jews and Arabs would be able to live in safety and be free to practice their religions in which ever country they wish to be in.  This utopia would be achieved, if only the arab Muslim world would allow it.
But, as you see in Iraq, this is not possible at this point in time.
First the Islamic dictatorships must be convinced to accept multi-cultural democratic governments, a free press and schools that teach objective truth to future generations of arab Muslim children ! The children are the future and it is they who must grow up with the democratic principals of fairness, justice & peace between all peoples !
Only then will the hatred and killing end ! 
That is the only reasonable solution, we do not want another Iraq !
A comment Tony, you gave the example of Solomon threatening to cut the baby in half. That threat was made to make its real mother known, well it worked Tony !
The true mother told Solomon, let the other woman have the child, but do not kill the child. By this response Solomon knew that this was indeed the child’s mother ! If she had not stepped forward I am sure Solomon would have given the baby to one of his many wives/concubines to care for it !
So here, in this whole Israeli/Arab conflict, sometimes an apparent harsh threat, such as the Palestinian arabs being held hostage, in the West Bank & Gaza for 58 yrs by their arab brothers to be a thorn in the side of Israel , will bring out the true mother of peace.
It appears that this mother of peace is the United States & Israel, who are trying to find a 2 state workable solution to relieve Palestinian suffering and have peace in the Middle East ! 
Lets walk before we run, the one state solution does not have a snowball’s chance in hell to work !
God Bless

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By Tony Wicher, December 3, 2006 at 10:53 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Continuation of Comment #40572 by Tony Wicher on 12/02 at 11:38 pm in reply to Comment #40551 by Ken Schreier on 12/02 at 6:57 pm

Since we are finally really talking, Ken, let me lay out for you some general political considerations. The difficulties Israeli Jews face as an minority of Jews in a sea of Arabs and Muslims are indeed great. Jews who do not want to face such difficulties should stay where they are or emigrate to some more peaceful and advanced part of the world, such as Europe or Japan or India or the United States. Why in the world go to the Middle East? But to those who are already there and wish to stay, or who wish to go, I say, your military solution to your security problems, that is, “Jewish self-defense” will never work. You MUST find another way. If you will adopt this proposal of “One Democratic State in principle as your goal, you can still negotiate from a position of strength, and you will find that instead of hating you, the whole world will respect you and help you. That is my belief. The United Nations will vote for it unanimously. The whole world, especially the United States, will indeed contribute billions and billions to help you with the transition. I bet Saudi Arabia would be good for a few billion too. Instead of being the paraiah of the world, the Jewish people will thus lead the world (as indeed they always have in many ways) into a new era of peace. Does this sound ridiculously utopian? IT ISN’T. Israelis have their work cut out for them, and no mistake. And no shirking. This must be done. By order of God, in my opinion.

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By Ken, December 3, 2006 at 6:30 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

To Tony:
I am sorry to say that your response to me is totally lacking.
You tell me my concerns are legitimate and you cannot assure me that the Jews will not become an oppressed minority in a democratic Islamic majority run government.
You give me no plan and expect Jews to trust that a majority arab muslim population will give them equal rights ?
Please Tony, before you suggest such plans, think before you talk.
It is easy to suggest plans for peace, but try implementing them ! You know the saying ” The devil is in the details” !
Your response you use is common, “I don’t know if it will work “, “I cannot assure you that things will go as planned”, etc.
The Jews in Israel cannot bet their lives on your nothing plan !
So Tony, I am not such a hard head as you thought !
I am just real about the way politics and people are !
I am still waiting for a plan that will assure Israeli Jews that they will not become an oppressed minority in a democratic Islamic run government in present day Israel !
Tony, could you please tell Robert to tone down his anti-Jewish rant, he makes your arguments of equality for Jews & Muslims living in peace very weak !
He spouts nothing but Jewish hate and you should cut him loose !

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By Tony Wicher, December 3, 2006 at 12:38 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Reply to Comment #40551 by Ken Schreier on 12/02 at 6:57 pm

Ken,

I sure don’t have any “bulletproof plan”. Your concerns are legitimate and must be addressed by Israelis and Palestinians in discussions leading to a democratic state with a strong constitution that its citizens believe in and will defend. I just do not believe that any two-state solution is likely to work. It is like Solomon cutting the baby in two. Somehow, the Holy Land is inherently one and partition just will not work.  If the Palestinians do accept partition, it will not be because it is just, but only because they have been beaten into submission.

Tony

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By Ken Schreier, December 2, 2006 at 7:57 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

To Tony Wicher:

Well, I am in, for the most part, agreement with what you wrote me.
The issue is full rights for Palestinian Arabs in the West Bank, Gaza and right of return of arabs who lived in Israel prior to 1948, is that correct ?
Well Tony, that is 58 yrs ago and most of those folks have probably died or are very old or may not even wish to return.
However, let us suppose Israel allows the arab Palestinians the right of return, will the arab countries start exporting all arab trouble makers and terrorists and claim that these are Palestinians who have a right of return ?
Will the arab nations start exporting all decendants of Palestinian arabs who left Israel, whether they want to or not,  so that they will outnumber the Jews and simply vote in an Islamic controlled government ?
How are you going to assure Jews that they will not become the oppressed minority in their own country ?  Excuse me Tony, if the arabs take control of the government by democratic elections, it will no longer be called Israel.
If all these refugees , estimated at over 5 million, would return, how would the economy of Israel support a doubling of the population with jobs, food, housing, medical, education, etc ?
Would the United States have to send billions of U.S. taxpayer dollars, evey year, to support this new multi-cultural democracy you propose ?
Israel is a small country with limited means in land and natural resources how would it support this 100% increase in population by itself ?
Israel already has a large below poverty line population and would not be able to support a mostly poor 5 million arabs returning !
How does Israel screen, or any other organization appointed,the incoming arabs who claim to have a right of return and how will documentation be verified ?
There are already 1 million plus arab Israelis who would vote, for the most part, with the new arab Palestinian population and certainly replace the Jewish run government with a Muslim run government, how would you deal with that ? 
Democracy in the western countries do not base their democracies on religious parties, however, in that part of the world, that is what would happen and who are we to tell them different ?
How would we enforce this new democratic government in Israel to make sure it does not become Islamic ?
Would the United States government be required to send its boys & girls into the “New Israel” to make sure the Jews are not being oppressed and restore a multi-cultural democracy if the arab population freely votes for an Islamic government ?  Will it become another Iraq ?
These are only some of the issues !
It is not as easy as you and your friends state !
Show me your plan to make sure the minority Jewish population does not become like the present Arab Palestinian ghetto on the West Bank & Gaza ?
Israel has pondered over these many problems for many years, and even Shimon Perez, has stated that the right of return is not workable !
I have also come to that conclusion.
The only workable solution is 2 states living side by side in peace.
After you honestly ponder over the many problems you will agree also !
If you can show me a 100% full proof plan that addresses the issues I have stated, I would be in full agreement !
So, lets hear your bullet proof plan ?

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By Robert, December 2, 2006 at 6:00 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Reply to comment #40423 by Ken “The Slyer” Schreier on 12/1

(continuation of previous post/comment)

“Do the Islamic Arab countries allow Jews to own property in their lands?”


DISILLUSIONED SYRIAN JEWS ARE TRICKLING BACK HOME
    By Kim Murphy TIMES staff writer
        The Los Angeles Times,
          World Report

“For me, I wanted to find out what kind of life I could live somewhere else, said the 29 year old teacher at the Jewish school in the heart of old Damascus. Kosher meat shops and fine-tailored clothing stores were up for sale. Gracious old houses—the classic Dama-scene townhouses hidden in the city’s ancient alleys, their intricate tile court-yards draped with shade trees and hanging vines were passed on to the few friends or family members who stayed behind, or sold to Muslims.

You must remember, Jatati said, ‘our people, our community used to have the best cars, the best shops right in the center of Damascus. One man had a shop worth 20 million Syrian pounds [about $450,000]. He sold it for 6 million [about $133,000]. You must realize his position.

Over the last 18 months, a population of perhaps 3,800 Syrian Jews has shrunk to just 300 in Damascus and 100 or so in the northeastern town of Kamishli. But now, over the last few weeks, the sound of sad farewells has given way to noise of welcoming celebrations. The shutters are opening on closed-up Jewish houses. Slowly but surely, many of those who left are finding that life in Brooklyn and France was not what they had hoped for, and they are coming home.

Yousef Jajati, head of the Syrian jewish community, expects that many more will be returning over the next several months, reflecting a growing disillusionment with life abroad and reaffirming ties to a nation that has been their homeland for more than two millennia.”

http://www.inminds.co.uk/boycott-news-0056.html
==================================================

Ken “The Slyer”...you can also check with Mike Wallace from CBS 60 Minutes; he tried to report on life for the Jewish community in Syria in the 1980s. The producers at CBS would not give the OK to put Mike Wallace’s report on TV for the American public to see. The report, according to Wallace, was too positive. The Syrian Jews didn’t have any big complaints to be aired and according to Wallace, confidentiality was accomodated for the Jewish community in Syria in order to air out any major complaints. There was none!

Ken “Slyer”...if you live in New York City or Tel Aviv, depending on which one of your 2 nationalities passport you are using these days, you can asked Jews who used to live in the Islamic Arab states regarding ownership of property in those countries.

May be you are an Ashkenazi Jew and you don’t associate with Sephardic Jews who came from North Africa & Islamic Arab countries.

Ashkenazi Jews look down on Sephardic Jews…true or false…Ken?

Ken “The Slyer”... You are the village fool! You must enjoy making a DAMN FOOL of yourself.

Your zionist lies & propaganda are your only friends & your worst enemies.

TRUTH & JUSTICE FOR THE OPPRESSED WILL PREVAIL!

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By Robert, December 2, 2006 at 4:36 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Reply to comment #40423 by Ken “The Slyer” Schreier on 12/1

(continuation of previous post/comment)

“Do the Islamic Arab countries allow jews to own property in their lands?”

THE JEWS OF IRAQ by Naeim Giladi

“About 125,000 Jews left Iraq for Israel in the late 1940s and 1952, most because they had been lied to and put into a panic by what I came to learn were Zionist bombs. But my mother and father were among the 6,000 who did not go to Israel. Although physically I never did return to Iraq, that bridge had been burned in any event, my heart has made the journey there many, many times. My father had it right.

And I began to find out about the barbaric methods used to rid the fledgling state of as many Palestinians as possible. The world recoils today at the thought of bacteriological warfare, but Israel was probably the first to actually use it in the Middle-East. In the 1948 war, Jewish forces would empty Arab villages of their populations, often by threats, sometimes by just gunning down a half-dozen unarmed Arabs as examples to the rest. To make sure the Arabs couldn’t return to make a fresh life for themselves in these villages, the Israelis put typhus and dysentery bacteria into the water wells.

I was there and heard their grief. ‘Our hearts are in pain when we look at the orange trees that we planted with our own hands. Please let us go, let us give water to those trees. God will not be pleased with us if we leave His trees untended. I asked the military governor to give them relief, but he said, ‘no, we want them to leave.’

I could no longer be part of this oppression and I left. Those Palestinians who didn’t sign up for transfers were taken by force-just put in trucks and dumped in Gaza. About four thousand people were driven from al-Majdal in one way or another. The few who remained were collaborators with the Israeli authorities.”

http://www.inminds.co.uk/jews-of-iraq.html

=================================================

In his book, Ben Gurion’s Scandals: How the Haganah & the Mossad Eliminated Jews, Giladi discusses the crimes committed by Zionists in their frenzy to import raw Jewish labor. Newly vacated farmlands had to be plowed to provide food for the immigrants and the military ranks had to be filled with conscripts to defend the stolen lands. Mr. Giladi couldn’t get his book published in Israel, and even in the U.S. he discovered he could do so only if he used his own money.

The Giladis, now U.S. citizens, live in New York City. By choice, they no longer hold Israeli citizenship. “I am Iraqi,” he told us, “born in Iraq, my culture still Iraqi Arabic, my religion Jewish, my citizenship American.”

                  John Mahoney
                  Executive Director,
        American for Middle East Understanding

(continued in next comment)

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By Tony Wicher, December 2, 2006 at 2:13 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Reply to Comment #40423 by Ken Schreier on 12/01 at 12:05 pm

Frank, as usual you did not address any of my comments ! I knew you would just start with your foolish hate & distorted views about Jewish Zionism. You know nothing about what Zionism even means ! You are deaf, dumb & blind to the truth ! You cannot reason with a person who will not listen but just talks the anti-Jewish scapegoat crap of past generations.
Again, you only attack the Jewish state, not Islamic states ? It is obvious from your writings that you are a supporter of the Islamic religion. I have read your writings on other forums and I know this to be fact.
You call the God of Judaism & Christianity, only their God and the God of Islam a universal God. Is that not right Franky boy ?
Not only do you not understand Jewish theology, but also lie about your beliefs !
You talk about truth, you would not recognize truth if it slapped you in your face ! 
You like to hear yourself talk and shout your own distorted truth !
You only accuse Jews of being the problem ! “

Okay, Ken. I do admire your persistence in continuing to post here in spite of your unpopularity with most of the other posters. I mean this sincerely and I’m sorry I lost patience with you before. Well then, just for the sake of balance, allow me to state my position concerning the various Muslim and Arab states. First of all, whether more or less secular or more or less Islamic, I can’t think of any of them I would call a democracy. So we can agree on that. Where we disagree is that I also don’t call Israel a democracy, whereas you do. I agree even with George W. Bush about one thing, which is that democracy is the right answer for the Middle East. Nothing else will do. I just propose to start with Israel. You know why? Because Israel almost is a democracy with freedom of speech and all the rest of it. It is certainly a lot closer to one than any of the Arab countries.  We are really only a little bit apart on this. The only thing missing for Israel to be a real democracy is that it must include the Palestinians as full citizens. Now such countries as Iraq and Iran and Egypt and Saudi Arabia have a long way to go to become democratic. It looks like Iraq is not going to make it for a long time. Of course, my disagreement with Bush is that I believe that democracy can be spread only by peaceful means, not by bombing people and occupying their country. However, that is another matter. My point is that Israel is not now but could easily become the first democracy in the Middle East. Educated, modern Jews can actually teach Palestinians about democracy, and they might just find that Palestinians are eager to learn. But to do this they must include them, not exclude them.

If the God of the Jews is the same as the God of all humanity, then this is what their God is now telling them to do, as indeed He is also telling Palestinians to swallow their pride and live together with you. Remember, God told Hagar to return to Sarah’s house and submit to her rule. Perhaps the Palestinians would even be willing to live under the Star of David in a country called “Israel” - if they were really fully repatriated and treated as equals. Of course, I can’t speak for them.

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By Robert, December 2, 2006 at 8:55 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Comment #40423 by Ken “The Slyer” Schreier on 12/1


“You think that you can ignore the truth by not answering my questions, it will not work!”


Ken “The Slyer”...you NEED to practice what you are preaching on this forum. You are a sly bigot zealot. Just take a look at the many questions that were directed at you by so many individuals on this & the other forum over the last several weeks…you did NOT answer their questions; you just continued to foam & froth at the mouth with your usual zealot propaganda.

When forum discussions got heated & you were looking like a damn fool by supporting ONLY your zionist objectives for “JEWS ONLY”, you quickly took that first exit out and pretended that you had left this & previous forum.

I am going to let the people on this forum read & search for the TRUTH regarding your distortions of facts, which is a common ignorant & sly tactic often used by you.

1) “In 1973, did the arab nations attack Israel on Yom Kippur, a day when Jews would be praying to God and fasting & thus have its defences down to attack?”

The Arab nations did NOT attack Israel in 1973. The Arab nations attacked the Israeli army on “occupied Arab land.”

Tell this forum which Israeli cities were attacked by the Arab armies in 1973?

While we are on this subject…the zionist Jewish terrorist “Irgun”  attacked the Palestinian towns & villages in pre & 1948.

Israel attacked Egypt in 1956. Israel attacked Egypt, Syria & Jordan in 1967. Israel attacked lebanon in 1982 & 2006.

2) “Were not Jews BANNED from praying at the Western Wall when Jordan was in control of Jerusalem prior to the 1967 war?”


The almost one million Christian & Moslem citizens of Israel of the pre-1967 were not allowed (BANNED) from praying at the Aqsa mosque for Moslems & the Church of Holy Sepulcher for Christians, both were located in East Jerusalem pre-1967. There was no peace treaty between Jordan & Israel.

Slyer…Your zionism & distortions are wrong!


3) “Was not Anwar sadat murdered for signing the peace treaty with Israel?”

Was not Yitzhak Rabin murdered for trying to make peace with a Palestinians? Who murdered him…Ken? Tell this forum!

(cotinued in next comment)

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By Ken Schreier, December 1, 2006 at 1:05 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Frank, as usual you did not address any of my comments ! I knew you would just start with your foolish hate & distorted views about Jewish Zionism. You know nothing about what Zionism even means ! You are deaf, dumb & blind to the truth ! You cannot reason with a person who will not listen but just talks the anti-Jewish scapegoat crap of past generations.
Again, you only attack the Jewish state, not Islamic states ? It is obvious from your writings that you are a supporter of the Islamic religion. I have read your writings on other forums and I know this to be fact.
You call the God of Judaism & Christianity, only their God and the God of Islam a universal God. Is that not right Franky boy ?
Not only do you not understand Jewish theology, but also lie about your beliefs !
You talk about truth, you would not recognize truth if it slapped you in your face !   
You like to hear yourself talk and shout your own distorted truth !
You only accuse Jews of being the problem !
I don’t need you to tell me about democracy and morality.
You think that you can ignore the truth by not answering my questions, it will not work !
Now state the truth Frank and answer these questions :
1: Do the Islamic Arab countries allow Jews to own property in their lands ?
2: Do the Islamic Arab countries allow Jews to vote and have representatives in their law making institutions ?
3: Did the United Nations divide Palestine into the State of Israel & the State of Jordan ?
4: Did not the United Nations do this to create a State of Israel to be for Jews and Jordan for arabs ?
5: Did not the Arab countries reject this and told the Palestinian arabs to leave Israel so that they could attack it and drive the Jews into the sea ?
6: Were not Jews BANNED from praying at the Western Wall when Jordan was in control of Jerusalem prior to the 1967 war ?
7: Since the arabs lost, in their attemps to destroy Israel, did it result in the Palestinian arabs being left homeless and stuck in a ghetto on the West Bank and exiled to other arab lands ?
8: In 1973, did the arab nations attack Israel on Yom Kippur, a day when Jews would be praying to God and fasting & thus have its defenses down to attack ?
9: Did Israel after the 1967 & 1973 wars, allow arabs to return and keep control of the Temple Mount which they have to this day ?
10: Did Israel destroy or show disrespect to the Mosques on the Temple Mount when they recaptured Jerusalem ?
11: Was a peace treaty signed at Camp David between Menachem Begin of Israel & Anwar Sadat of Egypt ?
12: Was not Anwar Sadat murdered for signing the peace treaty with Israel ?
13: Did Israel with its powerful military ever say that they wanted to drive the Arabs into the sea or destroy them ?

Well Frank, answer these simple 13 Questions directly with a Yes or No. Do not try to distort the truth with your lies.
Answer the questions truthfully Frank , Yes or No answers only.
I bet you will not be able to do it, but will continue your paranoid phobia against Jews !
I will be waiting to see my prediction come true !

See you Frank !

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By MARIAM RUSSELL, December 1, 2006 at 11:45 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

No wonder Israel is a screwed up mess! Imagine an Army of Ken Schreiers with big guns, cluster bombs, etc. and oblivious of any reason, willfully ignorant of any history, and absolutely sure no one matters in the world but them and what they want….now!

Does not matter that the country was the home of other people, they want it, so there, those other people will just have to leave, or be killed.

Sounds like the Conservatives in the US who are killing and causing havoc all over the world.


Exactly like a crowd of three-year-olds in the throes of a screaming, kicking, fit of rage at being impeded…only these three-year-olds have the most powerful killing tools known to man and think it is cool to use them.

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By Frank Goodman, Sr., December 1, 2006 at 7:31 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Re: Comment #40183 by Ken Schreier on 11/29

Thanks again Ken, for your clear intent to convey to the world that Jews are superior to all others. Thank you for clearly showing your contempt for true democracy in favor of your ‘Jewish democracy’ in Palestine. Thank you for exposing the lies about the Zionist terrorists who invaded Palestine in 1945 and drove the peaceful Palestinians out of their villages and then proceeded to erect a Jews only apartheid state.

You know nothing of democracy and less about human rights. You know nothing of decency and respect for children and women. You know nothing of a world without prejudice. You accuse me of prejudice and hating of Jews. You ignore the facts that I am in touch with Jews for Peace in Palestine. I am in touch with Jews who understand freedom and human rights. I am in touch with Jews who do not hold to the apartheid position of official Israeli propaganda. I am familiar with the lies and distortions by AIPAC, ZOA, and other organizations that promote the prejudice and anti-Arab hatred by some Jews. Fortunately, not all Jews are so ignorant of human rights and cooperation, that they cannot see the horrors of the oppressive regime in Israel.

You can rant and rave all you want in these pages. They do help us who are on the right side of God’s intent for mankind to live in peace and cooperation. You clearly show yourself for what you are, an ignorant, arrogant blow hard, who will be put in your place by world opinion soon. Then you can kiss your Zionist, Fascist, Oppressive Regime of thugs and child killers, good-bye forever.

No, I am not anti-Semitic. I am anti-terrorist, anti-Zionist, anti-crime in any form. Jimmy Carter got it right. He is mild and tries to keep a center position. So do I. I cannot veer to your murderous intent to seize all of Palestine for Jews only. I am a true democrat who will fight to save Palestine for a One Democratic State for Jews, Muslims, Christians, and any other people who can live in peace with their neighbors and contribute to the prosperity of the Palestinians of all religions. If you join us, we will show you the way to cooperation and peace. We will show you how to live by God’s laws of justice and commerce with liberty and justice for all. We will show you how to move away from the ghetto mentality that rejects non-Jews who are peaceful in favor of Jews Only streets and neighborhoods. We will show you how to live in peace with those who are your fellow humans on this planet. But, you will have to give up your holier than us attitude and learn about the concept of equality and justice under law.

If you are an Israeli citizen, you could join the millions of your fellow citizens who are for peace for Palestine/Israel. If not, you can join one of the many organizations spreading the concept of peace and joint occupation of that land for the benefit of all of God’s Children, not just for the Children of Israel. There is a new message from God available for the descendants of Isaac, that the world is for human beings to live at peace with all other human beings descending from Adam and Noah, in harmony with nature and God’s law. Vive la Paix.

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By Tony Wicher, November 30, 2006 at 9:24 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Reply to Comment #39824 by Kwagmyre on 11/26 at 7:52 pm

(Continuation of previous post)

Now, this isn’t just my idea; it is an idea whose time has come. Please check out the following website:

http://www.one-democratic-state.org/


The Association for One Democratic State in Israel/Palestine, of which I am a member, is a kind of “think tank” for peace. Please read the very thoughtful contributions by American, Palestinian and Israeli peace advocates. You will understand why this is the right answer. I myself believe in it so completely that I will go to any length to get it seriously considered by you and other leading Democrats, such as Bill and Hillary Clinton and Barak Obama. Just think, suppose you could get Joe Lieberman to support it. If you could convince him, you could convince the Israelis, and that is who, ultimately, needs to be convinced. Israelis need to be convinced, that is, that their security does not lie in living in a “Jewish state” with a majority Jewish population (enforced by immigration laws) and defended by a Jewish army. Unfortunately, that is the founding idea of Israel. This founding idea is simply not compatible with modern democracy. It inevitably leads to an apartheid state which is what Israel now is, as Jimmy Carter has pointed out in his new book. The answer to this is NOT a two state solution of any kind, any more than this was the answer in the 1960’s in this country. The answer, then and now, is integration, which our Democratic party led the country in back in its heyday. This will be a rebirth for the Democratic Party.

I have so much more to say about why this is a good idea and will work. Please, somebody read this message and CONTACT ME!!!!! It has to be a real person. I want to talk to Barbara Boxer about this. I have always supported her. I really need the chance to put this idea in front of her. That’s all I ask.

Thank You,

Tony Wicher

Ontario, California


Anyone who would like to be a part of such a meeting, please contact me at:

.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

or call me at (909) 988-9530.

Frank, I am in contact with Prof. Musa and I am going to try to arrange a meeting with Boxer that will include Palestinians, Israelis and Americans who are members of the One Democratic State Association. What do you say, can we do it?

Ken, better watch out! I’m a dangerous character! With guys like me running around loose, peace could break out all over!

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By Tony Wicher, November 30, 2006 at 9:09 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Reply to Comment #39824 by Kwagmyre on 11/26 at 7:52 pm

Post #39780 by Question Everything:

“And finally, a question for the people reading this: what can we, you and me, do to raise American consciousness about this issue?”

Well, speaking for myself, I emailed Nancy Pelosi, recommending she read “One Country” by Ali Abunimah of the Electronic Intifada, this so she could understand what strikes me as the most sensible approach to the problem:  the creation of a multi-ethnic state in Israel which was discussed in the other thread about Israel by Chris Hedges.
I emailed her after reading that she distanced herself from former President Jimmy Carter’s book on the Apartheid character of Israel(also saying that her support for Israel was unwavering, something that actually characterizes most if not all the Democrats’ sentiments in the Congress).”

———————————————————————

Good Job, Kwaggy. Here’s my idea: I am trying to arrange a meeting with our stalwart liberal Senator Boxer to put the One Democratic State idea in front of her. I have sent her this letter:

Dear Ms. Boxer:

We the American People have given Democrats control of Congress because of the utter incompetence and corruption of the Republicans. Although we have enough faith believe that the Democrats will be at least a little more competent and less corrupt than the Republicans, we are very skeptical as to whether they are likely to represent anything more than a small improvement. If you would like to surprise us, and provide dynamic new leadership that would really take the country in a new direction, as FDR did, what you need is a really good, new idea. People say that Democrats are not Republicans, but that they have no ideas of their own. Democrats do need a really bold new idea that the country can get behind, an idea that will have bipartisan support, and idea that will really lead the country. Here is such an idea.

This idea is in the area of foreign policy. It concerns the Israel/Palestine conflict. My view is this: if you look at the situation as impartially as possible, from the standpoint of a justice of an international court, there is really only one solution that satisfies the universal demand for justice, equality and human rights, and which is therefore the only one the whole world will accept. It is, that there should be a single multiethnic democracy in the whole area, including the West Bank and Gaza. Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza must be repatriated. The government of this land must treat these refugees as the equals of any Jew immigrating from somewhere else in the world. Non-Jews (Arabs, Christians, Muslims, whatever) must be the equal of Jews in every way, just as they are in the United States or any democracy in Europe, but NOT in Israel as it is currently constituted. Racist demographic laws intended to preserve a majority Jewish population must be repealed. This country must have a written constitution, like the United States, written by representatives of all ethnicities and religions, which guarantees freedom of religion and the separation of church and state. People of all religions and ethnicities stand and fight together to defend their Constitution, their liberty and their security against all enemies, foreign and domestic. In other words, if we are going to spread “freedom and democracy” in the Middle East, why don’t we start with Israel? Maybe Iraq can’t do it, but maybe Israel can!

(continued in next comment)

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By Robert, November 30, 2006 at 7:35 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Re: Comment #40183 by Ken “The Slyer” Schreier on 11/29


“Jesus believed it, I guess he was a Jewish Zionist lier also!”

Oh well, what else is new in Ken “The Slyer’s” life & thoughts these days?

He is screaming “anti-semitism” and trying use Jesus’s name to make an appeal for his Nazi & Apartheid policies of Israel.

Ken “The Slyer”... Just a few days ago, your pals, zionist belligerent Israeli settlers, from your “democratic state for Jews only” were chanting aggressively. Their chants echoed their hate for Jesus & Christianity.

You & your zionist pals don’t care for anyone on this earth except for your fanatic zionist theories. Your zionists like to use & exploit Christianity, American taxpayers to promote their zionist’s agendas. Which are more American aid, more diplomatic support, more weapons, & more apartheid occupation of the Palestinians.

As I have commented to you previously…you can take that IDF uniform off & remove those Israeli flags out of your living room. Your loyalty is not to America; your loyalty is to Israel.

You are such a fanatic IDF zealot; you would shoot and kill Palestinian children just for throwing stones at their brutal occupiers.

Here are the details of these fanatic “religious” zionist Jewish zealots who use brutal aggression on peace loving internationals & Palestinian children.

“A small group of human rights workers to accompany Palestinian children to their homes. They were confronted by about 100 Israeli settlers in small groups, who started CHANTING in Hebrew “WE KILLED JESUS, WE’LL KILL YOU TOO!”, a refrain the Israeli settlers had been repeating to internationals in Tel Rumeida all day.

After about thirty seconds of waiting, a small group of very aggressive settler men surrounded the international volunteers and began spitting at them, so much so that the internationals described it like “rain.” Then the settler men from the back of the crowd began jumping up and spitting, while others kicked the volunteers from the back of the crowd and from the side. The Israeli soldiers who were standing just a few feet behind the internationals at the checkpoint just looked on as the internationals were being attacked.

One settler then hit Tove on the left side of her face with an empty bottle, breaking it on her face and leaving her with a broken cheekbone. She immediately fell to the ground and the group of settlers who were watching began to clap, cheer, and chant “WE KILLED JESUS, WE’LL KILL YOU TOO!.”

Here is the link. Are these photos fake?

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=687

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By Ed Encho, November 30, 2006 at 5:43 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

At exactly what point do Americans finally wake up to the fact that our political system has been manipulated against the best interests of our country by a well financed, highly influential network of agents who represent the hard liners of a foreign power with a long record of duplicitous behavior, human rights abuses and a flagrant disregard for the international community? We are being duped, used and abused by a so-called ally that has no qualms about whether or not The United States becomes an international pariah and a target for the inevitable terrorist attacks that will result from this unholy alliance.

Why are we so hated by the world? A damned good place to look for answers would be our heinously unjust and one-sided stance towards the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as well as our billions of dollars in foreign aid and supply of military hardware and munitions to Israel. Our gross favoritism and thumbing of our noses to the world community while essentially sanctioning the reign of brutality exercised against Palestinian civilians by armed to the teeth Israeli forces as well as their West Bank land theft is regularly on display in both the corrupt and pathetic excuse for a media in this country and at the United Nations where our slobbering bully of an ambassador John Bolton uses his the bully pulpit from his illicit recess appointment by Emperor Bush that did an end around past Congress to veto and quash UN Security Council resolutions condemning the rampant violence and killing that is so much a contributor to the regional instability in he Middle East.

Of course it’s virtually impossible to engage in any sort of serious discussion of the disproportional nature of our relationship with Israel in any of the mainstream media outlets because it is and has been the elephant in the living room and any honest or constructive criticism is a potential career killer. Given that the majority of the well paid shills, suck ups, cowards and public relations flacks that comprise the bulk of what passes for reporting in these sick, dumbed down times are more interested in protecting their own asses, prestigious positions and high salaries they are subject to instantaneous exile by the bullies of the Israel Lobby along with their shrill knee jerk cries of Anti-Semitism. Interestingly a similar situation exists when analyzing the dangerous theocratic militancy of their allies in the exteme Religious Right and the Christian Zionist Rapture Death Cult. Granted every now and then a Pastor Ted is exposed and justifiably so for his perversion and hypocrisy but they are few and far between and this subculture of home grown anti-American jihadists is largely allowed to fly under the radar for the same reasons. Don’t look for substantive policy changes under the Democratic Congress because Israeli hardliners have their hooks into many influential members of that party as well, including the queen in waiting and darling of AIPAC Hillary Clinton herself.

Just my two cents but this should be the biggest issue up for serious discussion in America today.

Mr. Hedges is as always brutally honest and represents a moral beacon if we choose to follow it. His masterpiece ‘War Is A Force That Gives Us Meaning’ should be required reading for all who buy into the jingoist simpleton black and white worldview pimped by the neocons.

The fact that Jimmy Carter has also recently written a book regarding this entitled:
“Palestine Peace Not Apartheid” which is getting some play in the and media may at least serve to wake up some of the disinterested millions to the fact that there is much below the simplistic invocation of the Bushist bogeyman Al Qaeda as a convenient device to terrorize Americans and keep them from seeking the truth that the underlying reason as to why we are now a pariah nation.

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By Robert, November 29, 2006 at 10:46 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“Israel’s Apartheid Checkpoints”

The number of Israeli “Apartheid” roadblocks & checkpoints in the West Bank grew by nearly 40% in the past year, part of an increasingly sophisticated lockdown that disrupts all aspects of Palestinian life.

In all, there are approximately 530 checkpoints and roadblocks in the West bank, up from 376 in August 2005.


“The Checkpoint Generation” - Haaretz - Israel Newspaper

By Amira Hass, reporter for Haaretz-Israel News.

“Yassin, who had returned from overseas a few months earlier, had apparently not yet internalized the fact that it is dangerous to remind a soldier that a Palestinian is a human being. When the soldier shoved, Yassin shoved back.”

“The truth is that even soldier’s parents should not be interested in these explanations. They should, however, be very worried about their country sending their sons and daughters on a apartheid mission: to restrict Palestinian mobility in the occupied territory, to narrow the Palestinian expanse in order to enable Jews to move freely within that same occupied territory and in order to increase their expanse within it. In order to carry out this mission in full, facing the natives, the soldiers must feel and act like “superiors.”

Continue to read Amira Hass’s article and just think about what the Palestinians have to put up with and endure on a daily basis.

Here is the link:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/793975.html

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By Ken Schreier, November 29, 2006 at 5:27 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I am only back to make a comment to Frank Goodman, Sr.
Well Frank, you and your Jew hating crew is now on this forum and telling your lies here also !
The truth hurts Frank, but you have a big problem in dealing with your psychopathic hate of the Jewish people living in the land that the Almighty promised them !
Jesus believed it, I guess he was a Jewish Zionist lier also !
You may not believe that promise, but most of the Judeo-Christian world does !
You say you believe in God ? However, I can tell by your hate that your only God is the ego in your own pathetic thought process !
Your one sided attack on the state of Israel is the give away !
Never do you mention the Muslim Arab hate and their murdering of innocent Muslim & Jewish women & children !
They do not want peace with Israel, they want its destruction !
You do not admit that Arab Muslims are not tolerant of other religions or multi-cultural democracies in their countries and will never agree to a multi-cultural democracy in that region ! Just look at Iraq, the USA is doing exactly what you say to do in Israel !
Yet you have said that you are totally against what the USA is doing !
It is wrong to get rid of a Muslim country’s Islamic theocracy but OK to get rid of a Jewish theocracy ?
Your own words show your unreasonable hate towards a people who only want to live as JEWS IN THE DEMOCRATIC STATE OF ISRAEL !
You and your kind just can’t stomach that, so you vomit all your Jew hating crap ! 
By your account, you would think that the Arab Muslims in the West Bank, Gaza & Lebanon were angels who can do no wrong and Israel is satan !
It is people like you, who make themselves out as people who want to help make peace for Jews, but then say “only if you give up your Jewishness and submit to a multi-cultural democracy” !
What a bunch of crap !
I don’t hear you tell the Muslim Arabs to give up Islam !
You are a phony !
I am sick of you and your kind !
So keep on telling your lies , one day you will see how wrong you are!
I know everthing I have said will go in one ear and out the other ! YOU ARE DEAF, DUMB & BLIND WHEN IT COMES TO TELLING THE TRUTH !
The truth , which you distort, is that Israel has always wanted peace with it’s Arab muslim brothers and the Arabs have always wanted the destruction of Israel !
Israel is here to stay ! Get it Frank, here to stay as a Jewish Democracy !
Great is the Almighty and God bless the United States for backing her !
So bye Frank, I hope you find a psychiatrist who will help you deal with your denial of hate when it comes to anything Jewish ! Your name “Goodman” is Jewish, maybe that is the root of your problem, “self hate” !

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By Frank Goodman, Sr., November 29, 2006 at 7:19 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Re: Comment #39731 by Ken Schreier on 11/25

Ken, please don’t leave. You make the case for the Palestinians for us. You are our best spokesman to bring out the horrible affairs in Palestine. None of us can bring out the terror of the IDF like you can. You do in by your support of the murderous, apartheid, anti-democratic spirit of the rogue state of Israel. You say it all. You show the sins of Zionism better than we who support human rights and true democracy.

You make the case for one state with liberty and justice for all. It takes a democratic state to enforce justice. It takes people who understand human rights to keep Islamists, Zionists, and Fascists in line. It takes a hundred years of peaceful cooperation to erase the consequences of Israeli racism and the rage of the Palestinians whose land was seized in terrorist raids by Zionist thugs after World War Two. But, it must be done.

Those of us who are against the Zionist Israel attack and encroachment upon Palestine, do not distinguish between the rights of Jews, Christians, or Muslims. We see it as a human rights issue, not a religious issue. You show your prejudice clearly and your support of the violent expulsion of Palestinians from their land clearly as wrong. You have moved quite a few to turn against Israel and it murderous intent. The world is turning away from the error of 1948.

We are more sophisticated now. Even with the ZOA and AIPAC effort to saturate American media with the lies and deceptions about Israel, Americans are getting the story. Jimmy Carter has exposed the tyranny of Zionism. Hamas is mild as compared with Zionists. How can you compare one Israeli soldier captured and held with 9000 Palestinians, including 300 children as young as 12, and 100 women in Israeli jails?

Keep up your lies and attempts to malign the peaceful gestures by Palestinians. The more you tell them, the more incredible you become. You are the emperor with no clothes. Put your naked lies in this space and let those of us who know better expose your disgusting display to the world. Please stay and give humanity a chance to see you in all your nakedness and horror. The enemy of Israel is Truth, but Truth will set you free. You could join with all the peaceful intended people and advance a single state of Palestine/Israel where every citizen of that land could be proud of the true democracy possible. Where every Jew, Christian, and Muslim could enjoy freedom and justice under law. Where no person is denied his right to return to the land of his ancestors. Where murderers of children are put in the prisons which now hold the children and their mothers and the freedom loving Palestinians are freed to return to their homes and land.

I thank you for making our job easier by your terrible filth against human rights and freedom. I thank you for making the case for Palestine. Keep it up. We need you.

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By Robert, November 28, 2006 at 8:30 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

An article on Palestine / Israel conflict that was on Counterpunch.org website on 11/27/2006.

Kathleen & Bill Christison have recently visited Palestine in October, 2006, which was their 5th trip to Palestine since 2003.

The article reveals the TRUTH about Israel’s policies resembling Nazi’s oppression.

“In fact, it matters little what you call it, so long as it is recognized that what Israel intends and is working toward is the erasure of the Palestinian people from the Palestine landscape.”

“Children shot to death sitting in school classrooms here, families murdered while tilling their land there; agriculture land stripped and burned here, farmers cut off from their land there; little girls riddled with bullets here, infants beheaded by shell fire there; a little massacre here, a little starvation there; expulsion here, denial of entry and families torn apart there; dispossession is the name of the game. With no functioning economy, dwindling food supplies, medical supply shortages, no way to move from one area to another, no access to a capital city, no easy access to education or medical care, no civil service salaries, the people will die, the nation will die without a single gas chamber. Or so the Israelis hope.”

You can read the TRUTH and the rest of the story from these courageous American’s WHO DARE TO SPEAK OUT about ISRAEL’s NAZI OPPRESSION.

Does It matter What You call It?

“Genocide or Erasure of Palestinians”

By KATHLEEN and BILL CHRISTISON

http://www.counterpunch.org/christison11272006.html

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By Spinoza, November 28, 2006 at 7:00 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Mr Schreier is in need of multiple orgasms on December 22.

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By MARIAM RUSSELL, November 28, 2006 at 5:36 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Mr. Gershoff, While you are correct that no one in the western countries cared about the people living in Palestine. They, the Brits, with the League of Nations planned to turn Palestine into a ¨Jewish Homeland¨ without giving any thought to the million or so Muslims who lived there, also a few Christians who lived there. Later the United Nations OKed the plan to partition the country but with the understanding that the citizens of the country agree. When the Arabs would not agree to allow these few people to take their land and country, the Jews, Ingrun, began massacres, attacks, etc. to urge the non-jews to leave…..then declared that the country was Israel, and with the backing of the strongest country in the world, made it stick.

I would not consider myself anti-Jewish, but I detest the actions of the Jewish controlled government of Israel, and consider it no less reprehensible than the German government of WW2.

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By jeff gershoff, November 28, 2006 at 2:02 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

One cannot help but dislike this guy, Robert.  Even some points he makes that might have some validity are lost in the vindictive bile of his rhetoric.  When he speaks of “good jews” what in the hell is one to make of that?  This guy reminds me of some white, upper middle class university educated,diletante , who has actually never been in a more threatening situation than riding on the Lexington Avenue Subway in Manhattan.  Get your ass up into Kashmir or parts of Mumbai or Karachi or near the Pakistan/Afghanistan border pal and then let’s hear some more of your crap.  In case you forgot, the country now called Israel was a sad, dirty, poverty ridden, wind swept dump until the very jews that you hate went in there and turned it into a garden.  Sure, now the Palestinians want it back…no one much cared who lived there in ‘48.

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By Robert, November 27, 2006 at 8:44 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Re: Comments #39716 & #39731 by
Ken “THE SLYER” Schreier on 11/25

“If Israel is were eliminated, it would not cause peace in the region or the world. The Moslems also have a problem with Western Civilization represented in the form of Christianity!”

Ken “The Slyer”... I posted the following facts in response to comments that were submitted on the other forum “Israel’s Barrier To Peace”. You were spewing your usual deceptive fragmented baloney about Judeo/Christian values, the holy bible & its teachings and that Jews & Christian beliefs are close & similar.

So again you are spewing your usual deceptive baloney hook on this forum as noted above in quotation marks.

Here are the facts for the people on this forum to see & read about ISRAEL’s Law & Policy regarding Christianity:

1. Israel issues national identity cards where the religion of the card holder is clearly shown in BOLD type.

2. In Israel a Christian is permitted to preach the gospel in a church building, but for the clergy or anyone to even tell one about the teachings of the Bible outside of church will bring a 5 year prison sentence.

3. For a Christian to give a Bible or a religious article or even an act of kindness toward a Jew, such as giving a gift of food, can be interpreted as trying to convert a jew to Christianity and can bring a 5 year prison sentence.

4. It is illegal for a Jewish woman to marry a Christian man or a Jewish man to marry a Christian woman. The marriage is not recognized and it is against the law.

5. Christian & Moslem citizens of Israel are third & fourth class citizens. They do not have the same opportunities and protections as Jews.

6. The Israeli settlements are for Jews only. No Christians or Moslems are allowed to enter or live in them.

One can easily see how these third & fourth class citizens are treated in Tel Aviv airport and other places. Their humiliations by the Israeli personnel are the worst in the world. Its the Nazi method. Animals are treated better than these people who have done nothing wrong, except their ID cards & passports show the individual’s RELIGION.

Ken “The Slyer” calls Israel the only democracy in the Middle-East. The fact is…its a democracy for Jews only.

Israel has NO constitution.

Ken…you can run from the TRUTH all you want to, but can’t hide from it. It will face & haunt you & your fanatic zionist deceptions wherever you are at.

I presume that you thought if you high tailed it at this junction of the TRUTH route…you will accomplish the following goals:

A). Exit now so that you will not be pushed to answer any questions & attempt to refute the TRUTH on this forum. Notice no questions answered from your side…just foaming at the mouth!

B). Exit now & may be damaging comments about zionist theories, deceptions & Apartheid Israel will stop or slow the flow of comments on this forum.

Lastly Ken “The Slyer”, one who speaks the TRUTH & supports HUMAN RIGHTS PRINCIPLES for all HUMAN BEINGS surely has nothing to fear. A person with TRUTH & integrity does NOT run from his shadow.

Noam Chomsky, Norman Finkelstein, Israel Shahak, Stanley Cohen, Jennifer Lowenstein and many other good Jews are NOT for the Judaism of Ariel Sharon, Benjamin Netanyahu, Ehud Olmert. Not for the Judaism of the generals of Israel Defense Forces (IDF). Not for the Judaism of zionism & its brutality. But for JUDAISM that stands with the oppressed, the disadvantaged and the victims of tragedy.

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By Kwagmyre, November 26, 2006 at 8:52 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Post #39780 by Question Everything:

“And finally, a question for the people reading this: what can we, you and me, do to raise American consciousness about this issue?”

Well, speaking for myself, I emailed Nancy Pelosi, recommending she read “One Country” by Ali Abunimah of the Electronic Intifada, this so she could understand what strikes me as the most sensible approach to the problem:  the creation of a multi-ethnic state in Israel which was discussed in the other thread about Israel by Chris Hedges.
I emailed her after reading that she distanced herself from former President Jimmy Carter’s book on the Apartheid character of Israel(also saying that her support for Israel was unwavering, something that actually characterizes most if not all the Democrats’ sentiments in the Congress).

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By Question Everything, November 26, 2006 at 12:48 pm Link to this comment
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With religious fundamentalism on the rise throughout the world, we find the Jews (Israel) calling for the Christians (America) to combat the Muslims (Iran). The stage is now set for a major conflict - one that may involve as many as 2 billion people. This will not be war as we have known it in the past, but a brave new war of terror and attrition that may bring destruction for generations. If we set ourselves against all Muslim nations, we will end up like Israel, besieged on all sides, with no bus, subway, or street cafe safe from suicide bombers.

Given this precarious situation, this country owes itself, at the very least, a serious open debate about the future of US/Israeli relations.

- Is it truly in the interest of the US to continue to support Israel?
- If Israel is so eager to push the US into a major conflict in order to protect its settlements, can it truly be said that they are our friends?
- What would be the results (good or bad) if we simply stopped giving Israel our unqualified support and took a more even handed approach to the Middle-East conflict?

And finally, a question for the people reading this: what can we, you and me, do to raise American consciousness about this issue?

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By Kwagmyre, November 26, 2006 at 12:02 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Ken Schreirer’s departing rant #39791:

“The only way to peace in the world is to get rid of the oppressive dictatorships and religious fundamentalists who kill in the name of God !”

As if you, Ken, were not at all a religious fundamentalist who you can be rest assured would no doubt kill in the name of the Zionist God you worship so fervently!

Couldn’t take too much truth, huh, so you’re departing again?

Gee, what a grave loss for the rest of us.

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By Ken Schreier, November 25, 2006 at 8:33 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Well time for me to leave again !

The talking head Jew haters have started to take over this forum also !
They are like a cancer that eats away at the healthy cells in the body and kill them and thus causes the rest of the body to die !
People, don’t become diseased by these people who try to distort the truth in the Middle East !
Again they will tell their lies and scapegoat the Jews as they have always done in the past!
The only way to peace in the world is to get rid of the oppressive dictatorships and religious fundamentalists who kill in the name of God !

Bye
Peace to you all, and have a Merry Christmas & Happy Hannuka, as well as, a Happy & Healthy New Year ! Love One Another !

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By Ken Schreier, November 25, 2006 at 5:42 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Well I am very pleased !
I see that I have attracted a following !
Robert, Kwagmyre, Wicher, have all followed me to this blog !
Kwagmyre was so distraught that he said to his fellow responders, that without me their blog was finished and said his farewells to his buddies !
Robert told his fellow responders that I went to this blog and start posting there ! These are real pathetic individuals ! 
They just won’t give up with their lies of wanting a multi-cultural democratic state that is to replace the Jewish State of Israel and create peace in that region!
Israel is a reality and its not going away !
Israel has just as much right to exist as every other country in this world !
To suggest that the Jewish state of Israel be eliminated is proof that these individuals are just another bunch of Nazis looking for a Final Solution to Jews being eliminated from this world !
Again, it is ok to have 22 Islamic states that are theocracies, but 1 Jewish democratic state is not acceptabe !
They never address the Arab Moslem doctrine to eliminate Israel !
Again arab states do not allow democracy & freedom of religion, Israel does !
If Israel were eliminated, it would not cause peace in the region or world. The Moslems also have a problem with Western Civilization represented in the form of Christianity !
It may seem easier to them to get rid of 6 million Jews, but what about getting rid of 2 billion Christians ! That won’t be so easy, unless they develope nuclear weapons to do the job, and that is what Iran is trying to do now !
Islam considers all non Moslems as infidels and worthy of death if they do not accept Islam !
The real issue here is, Islam does not accept democratic values or freedom of religion !
Until they do, peace will not come to that region or the world !
Wake up people before the world goes up in a big puff of smoke !
Bye, Robert, Kwagmyre, Wicher, you have been exposed for the Jew haters you are, keep on writing your lies, the jig is up !

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By Kwagmyre, November 25, 2006 at 10:59 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Posted by Ken(“The Shrill”)Schreier:

“He talks about wanting a democratic multi-cultural state in place of the Jewish state of Israel. Does he not see that Israel is already the only democratic multi-cultural state in the region already !”

Yes, Ken, that’s EXACTLY what he and I have been addressing in the other post on Israel.  And if Israel is so “democratic” as you claim, why are the Palestinians CONTINUOUSLY subjected to humiliating searches at checkpoints, had their property confiscated(which in many cases deprived the farmers of making a living), denied better water quality which the Settlers were then treated to(with those same Settlers intimidating the Palestinians in the occupied territory), etc., etc., till what Israel gets away with is revolting to anyone with common sense?

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By no common sense, November 25, 2006 at 1:46 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

peace in the middle east has to start with the jews.  after all they were the ones to initiate all the violance when they mass illegally immigrated to the heart of the middle east, to the point where they declared their own country and forced so many palestinians off their land. They are still keeping them hostage and forcing them off their land.

in the 80’s the PLO who had fled to lebanon decided to make peace with israel and settle on a two state plan. israel responded by bombing the hell out of lebanon and killing 20,000 people.

i don’t think the jews are looking for peace. they always remind us of how the nazis treated them, but they never mention how they treat the palestinians.

as long as the evangelicals - the same people who supported slavery and racism - exist, the US will always support an illegal state.

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By Robert, November 24, 2006 at 10:52 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

RE: Comment #39501 by Ken Schreier on 11/23


“The truth is, there is oppression & brutality in the West Bank & Gaza, but it is not Israel’s fault, it is the terrorist organizations, Hamas & Hezbollah and countless other groups, who are the source of their oppression!”


Ken…you were called by several of the commentators on “Israel’s Barrier to Peace” forum by Chris Hedges on “Truthdig” which you exited about 10 days ago, a fanatic zionist, one who is foaming at the mouth, a fool, advocate of Apartheid Israel, mentally unstable with bi-polar disorder symptoms…and several more.

Why do you a have a problem telling the truth?
Tell the truth if you are capable of it!

The people on this forum are not stupid; the internet is a vast resource for facts & truth. All they have to do is Google for names & information to verify the facts or lies.

On the issue of terrorism, here is what the records show.

Since September 28, 2000 to present, the record shows that approximately 4,000 Palestinians have been killed by Israeli defense forces & approximately 1000 Israelis have been killed.

I am using the figures of B’Tselem, the Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the occupied territories for both the Israeli & Palestinian figures- on the Palestinian & the Israeli side roughly one-half to two-thirds of the total number were were civilians or bystanders.

The findings of the human rights supports—B’Tselem, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, Physicians for Human Rights in Israel, and so forth- they all say that Israel uses reckless indiscriminate fire against Palestinians, and B’Tselem says when you have so many civilian casualties, you have, approximately 800 Palestinian children / minors who have been killed, which is more than the total number of Israeli civilians killed.

So, one could say- using numbers, now- Israel is responsible for three(3) times as much terrorism in the Occupied Territories as Palestinians against Israel. That’s the question of terrorism!

Ken…tell us if B’Tselem is telling the truth or not? You are saying “It is not Israel’s fault.”

While we are at this topic…What do you think of Noam Chomsky, Norman Finkelstein, Gideo Levy, Uri Avnari, Stanley Cohen. Jennifer Lowenstein and other Jewish scholars & academics who write & speak about the facts / truth regarding the Palestine / Israel conflict.

Surely you don’t think that they liars & Jew haters?

Ken, as previously conveyed to you on the other forum, your mind & soul are infected with zionist proganda that you are not capable of focusing on real truth & facts. You only see the world through zionist propaganda prisms.

You are trying to preach to this forum about truth, but you are not practicing what you are trying to preach & you are not capable of telling the TRUTH.

You are still screaming “anti-semitism” at everyone who speaks the TRUTH about Israel’s brutal policies & killings.

You can take that IDF uniform off & be an advocate to JUCTICE, TRUTH, HUMAN RIGHTS, UN CHARTER, GENEVA CONVENTION, EQUAL RIGHTS… for all human beings. Not just for Jews.

Israel is a theocratic state. Its a wellfare state. Its a democracy for “Jews only” where Christian & Moslem citizens are third & fourth class citizens with no equal rights as Jews. Israel is a Nazi state that uses the worst kind of terrorism against innocent un-armed civilian populations and systematically tries to lie about the killings.

IN The END JUSTICE & TRUTH WILL PREVAIL FOR THE OPPRESSED & DISADVANTAGED!!!

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By Tony Wicher, November 24, 2006 at 7:58 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Reply to Comment #39348 by Spinoza on 11/22 at 5:15 pm

“Make certain you have an organism or two on December 22”

Two organisms and multiple orgasms!

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By Spinoza, November 24, 2006 at 12:03 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

PEACE AND JUSTICE OR WAR AND DISTRUCTION


WHICH IS BETTER?  WE BETTER STOP VOTING AND BETTER GET OUT IN THE STREETS AND RAISE HELL.

EVERYONE HAS TO WAKE UP, JEW OR GENTILE, AND STOP BEING MANIPULATED BY RIGHT WING SCUM OF ALL TYPES.

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By MARIAM RUSELL, November 23, 2006 at 10:19 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

MR. SCHREIER, CONSIDER A FEW FACTS….ALSO LOOK AT NO.39447

History’s legacy created divisive issues between Palestinians and Israelis. Judea, home of the Jews in ancient times, was conquered by the Romans and renamed Palestine. Palestine was later conquered and inhabited by Arabs for over a thousand years. The Zionist movement arose to restore the Jews to Israel, largely ignoring the existing Arab population. Following the Balfour Declaration in 1917, Palestine was granted to Britain as a League of Nations mandate to build a national home for the Jewish people. The Arabs resented the Jews coming in to take their land. Led by Grand Mufti Hajj Amin El Husseini, they rioted repeatedly and later revolted, creating a history of enmity between Jews and Arabs in Palestine. Britain stopped Jewish immigration to Palestine. Following the Holocaust, in which 6 million Jews were killed by the Nazis, pressure on Britain increased to allow Jewish immigration to Palestine.  In 1947, the UN partitioned the land into Arab and Jewish states. The Arabs did not accept the partition and war broke out. The Jews won a decisive victory, expanded their state and created several hundred thousand Palestinian refugees. The Arab states refused to recognize Israel or make peace with it.

ALSO, FROM A WATER REPORT…..

The twenty-first century is going to be in many aspects different from the passing one. It will bring with it a different climate, which will most probably have an impact on the hydrologic cycle. At the same time, the new century will make evident the unfurling of the Information Age, ushered in during the last few decades. This will most probably promote the trend, already started in Israel, in which income from high-tech industries replaces that from agriculture in the national economy. This will further the trend of increasing urbanization and consequently, of increasing urban demand for water. No one, except a few science fiction writers, has foreseen such dramatic changes in such a short period, including the engineers who planned the water systems of the Middle East. Thus, with regard to the management of water resources in the region, new approaches will have to be examined, and if necessary, new water resource development and management plans will have to be developed.

SO, THE JEWISH MINORITY, AFTER THE BRITS DECIDED THEY COULD NO LONGER AFFORD TO KEEP 100,000 TROOPS IN PALESTINE AFTER WW2 FOUND THEM NO LONGER THE WORLD POWER WITH THE WEALTH OF INDIA AND THE REST OF THEIR EMPIRE TO SQUANDER ON FORIEGN ADVENTURISM, TURNED RESPONSIBILITY OVER TO THE UNITED NATIONS,TOOK MATTERS INTO THEIR OWN HANDS AND DECLARED THAT PALESTINE WOULD HENCEFORTH BE ISRAEL,,,,,FORGET WHAT THE MAJORITY POPULATION WANTED OR AGREED TO…..AND WERE BACKED BY THE USA, THE STRONGEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.

THIS PISSED THE ARABS OFF…IMAGINE THAT! NARROW MINDED PEOPLE, THOSE ARABS. ACTUALLY THINK…LIVE SOMEWHERE FOR A THOUSAND YEARS OR SO AND IT BECOMES YOURS.

If you or anyone else is intrested in a factual look and understanding of the whole conflict then you must google chomsky which will take you to the official Chomsky site, then select Talks and read U S MIDDLE POLICY, given at Columbia University, April, 1999. He is always accurate.   

Also it is possible to dislike the policies of the Jewish State without disliking an entire people, most of whom are no more charmed by the actions of Israel than I or many of the posters here.

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By R. A. Earl, November 23, 2006 at 10:07 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I’m so tired of this stupidity.

Neither the Israelis nor the Palestinians have demonstrated sufficient maturity to be allowed to “own” a state unsupervised. They BOTH act like children in a schoolyard and deserve to be treated as such.

If these idiots must blow BILLIONS on the most futile of all endeavours… building a wall… why don’t they do the rest of us a favor… BUILD THE DAMN WALL SO THAT IT SURROUNDS and QUARANTINES BOTH ISRAEL AND PALESTINE… then SEAL IT so no one can get in or out. Arm every man, woman and child and let them fight to the death. The last person standing will be declared the winner and be awarded possession of BOTH STATES.

Jeez this is stupid, stupid, stupid.

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By Ken Schreier, November 23, 2006 at 4:57 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

There is a responder on this site who calls himself “Robert”.
Well, this person as been spewing his Jewish hate all over this website.
He only talks about arab moslem oppression caused by Jewish brutality. He does not tell you the real truth, only his truth !
The truth is, there is oppression & brutality in the West Bank & Gaza, but it is not Israel’s fault, it is the terrorist organizations, Hamas & Hezbollah and countless other groups, who are the source of their oppression !
They hold their own people hostage in order to take power and control the West Bank & Gaza !
They have also vowed to destroy Israel and want no peace with the Jewish state !
They hide in schools, hospitals, mosques and residential areas and use women and children as shields to protect them against Israel, who is trying to eliminate them so peace can finally be achieved in the Middle East !
These terrorist groups are largely supported by Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia.
These countries, and their terrorist arm, are the source of Palestinian misery !
These countries spew lies and use Jews as the scapegoat for problems caused by their own plans to eliminate the state of Israel from the middle east !
Robert mentions nothing of this !
The elimination of Israel, as a Jewish state, is all he cares about !
He talks about wanting a democratic multi-cultural state in place of the Jewish state of Israel. Does he not see that Israel is already the only democratic multi-cultural state in the region already !
Israel allows all religions to worship as they please !  Israel has a 1 million Israeli arab population who vote in Israeli elections !
Do any arab countries allow Jews to vote or own property in their countries ? The answer is , Of course not !
There are 22 Islamic arab states in the region, none of them multi-cultural democracies !
What he wants is a 23rd Islamic dictatorship !
I have made you aware of this phony so that you can see him for what he is, a Jew hater !

God Bless - Peace to the world !

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By Izzy Bee, November 23, 2006 at 12:39 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Revoking Israel’s loan guarantees would certainly be a good start. To break the cycles of violence, this country must abandon that weird double-edged sense of WWII woundedness and sense of entitlement, and become aware that intransigence and bullying are harming its international standing.

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By Robert, November 23, 2006 at 11:48 am Link to this comment
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Re: Comment #39341 by Mark Kienan on 11/22

“1. What will happen when Iran has a nuclear weapon?
2. What will happen when the US puppet regimes of Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Egypt are overthrown by the arab street just as is happening in Iraq?
3. What will happen when instead of fighting essentially unarmed muslim men, women and children Israel is confronted with nuclear armed muslim army that is seething with anger for the years of brutality openly and arrogantly meted out to Palestinians/Leboneses by the Israelis?
4. I expect there is going to be a precipitous move to make peace and also emigrate.
5. The day of a nuclear armed muslim/arab army is not far away. It is inevitable.”

Well Mark…surprisingly you failed to mention the following FACTS / TRUTH. May be you are not aware of these FACTUAL information?

1. WHICH COUNTRY IN THE MIDDLE-EAST HAS STOCKPILES OF UNDECLARED NUCLEAR WEAPONS?

2. WHICH COUNTRY IN THE MIDDLE-EAST HAS STOCKPILES OF UNDECLARED CHEMICAL AND BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS?

3. WHICH COUNTRY IN THE MIDDLE-EAST HAS NO OUTSIDE INSPECTIONS OF ITS NUCLEAR, CHEMICAL AND BIOLOGICAL FACILITIES / FACTORIES?

4. WHICH COUNTRY IN THE MIDDLE-EAST HAS KIDNAPPED AND JAILED ITS WHISTLE BLOWER, MORDECHAI VANUNU?

IT IS NOT IRAQ? IT IS NOT IRAN?

YOU MAY HAVE GUESSED IT! ITS…ISRAEL!!!

Why is it that the above details are almost never discussed or make the news topics on our US mainstream news media?

No one from our elected US officials dares to speak out & tell the TRUTH about ISRAEL’s undeclared massive arsenals of “WMD’s”. For anyone from our elected official or the mainstream news media reporters to bring these facts into the open for the American public to hear…would result in a career suicide.

Where do you think the Israeli’s got these weapons & the technology from? You guessed it… mainly the U.S.A.!

Israel gets the most sophisticated weapons from the US annualy…FREE OF CHARGE & no questions asked!

IF the MID-EAST needs to be “WMD” free, we should place ISRAEL on top of that list. Why the double standards in a region with very good resources for all Americans.

What resources does Israel has to offer our national interests?

Israel’s goals & objectives has been to keep that “smear & fear” wedge actively placed between the Arab/Moslem countries and the USA.

This way Israel can keep that US aid, $3-5 billion, per year flowing smoothly…so those Jewish settlements “Jewish Colonies” in the Occupied Territories can keep getting bigger in size & numbers.

So ask yourself again.. Who has those massive stockpiles of “WMD’s” in the Mid-East?

Which people & countries in the Mid-East should be in fear?

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By MA, November 23, 2006 at 10:38 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

THESE ARE THE BASICS….

Population of Palestine, since 12th century majority Muslim…

1850…350,000…85% Muslim
1922…752,000…589,000 Muslim
1947….1,970,000…..1,181,000 Muslims

Wikipedia…

During the war of 1948, many fled or were expelled from their homes in the part of the land that would become the State of Israel to other parts of the land or to neighbouring countries.

The UN estimates their number at 711,000 [1] while the Israeli estimate of the refugees is 420,000 and the Palestinian estimate is 900,000. The degree to which the flight of the refugees was voluntary or involuntary is hotly debated. Some cases of expulsion are well-documented, such as in Lydda and Ramle. In other cases, such as in Beersheba and Safed, the Arabs fled before Jewish troops had entered.[2]

From July 1946 until June 1948, Irgun fought as irregulars against the British mandate and Arab forces, informally in coordination with Haganah forces. Their participation in massacre at Deir Yassin , which accelerated the Arab exodus from Palestine on the eve of the founding of Israel[1] ,has been widely discussed and documented. Their largest single operation was a successful assault on Jaffa (an Arab enclave according to the UN partition plan) starting on April 25.

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By Brewer, November 23, 2006 at 1:32 am Link to this comment
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I sense that some of the posters out there are beginning to understand the problem.

Most Americans cannot understand why anyone could hate them.

President Ahmadineajad of Iran said it:

“A regime has been established which does not show mercy even to kids, destroys houses
while the occupants are still in them, announces beforehand its list and plans to assassinate Palestinian figures and keeps thousands of Palestinians in prison. Such a phenomenon is unique – or at the very least extremely rare – in recent memory.
Another big question asked by people is why is this regime being supported?”

http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:v5RWPlOBK90J:news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/09_05_06ahmadinejadletter.pdf+Iran+letter&hl=en&gl=nz&ct=clnk&cd=3

(Incidently, he has never expressed a desire to wipe Israel off the map. His remarks have always been specifically aimed at the “Zionist Regime” – sorta like “regime change” as often touted by George W. Bush.)

Osama Bin Laden said it

“All that is going on in Palestine for the last 11 months is sufficient to call the wrath of God upon the United States and Israel.”
http://www.public-action.com/911/oblintrv.html

W. Scott Thompson Adjunct Professor of International Politics. The Fletcher School, Tufts University, Former White House Fellow and Assistant to the Secretary of Defense (1975-77) said it:

“An international coalition to rid the region and the world of a monster is a good thing. Why then does Washington have so little international support for its imminent war to achieve “regime change” in Iraq?...
The real reason why America can’t get support for its war can be summed up in one word, Palestine…On a broader front the creation of a Palestinian state would remove the sting that young Arabs have felt so poignantly. And then, instead of seeing the West’s inevitable victory over Saddam Hussein in Iraq as yet another humiliation, they could look to the building of new foundations of - we hope - democratic Arab states throughout the Middle East.”
“Iraq - It’s the Right War, But at the Wrong Time”
The Nation (Thailand)March 18, 2003

For what it is worth, I say it too – Palestine is the key.

The U.S. supports a fascist state in the Middle East which practices ethnic cleansing of people who are not Jews. That is why the U.S. is hated by Muslims.
Simple as that.

http://www.brewerstroupe.blogspot.com/

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By Spinoza, November 22, 2006 at 6:15 pm Link to this comment
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Make certain you have an organism or two on December 22.

It is impossible to have peace without justice and without people being happy.

To that end we must fight fascism and all types of capitalism.

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By skrome, November 22, 2006 at 4:42 pm Link to this comment
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In wars, there are winners and losers, and the winners, whether they are good or evil, call the shots. In 1967 Israel won the war and if the Palestinians and Arab states had made peace on Israeli terms back then, the whole area would probably be stable and thriving now with trade, tourism, and maybe even open borders. All things quite possible with peace. Think of Europe after WW11. It didn’t take long. Instead the Arabs chose the 3 NOs policy. No peace, No negotiations, and No recognition. Fortunately, some Arab states have changed their policy but now we have Hamas and Hezbolah who seem to embrace that regressive stance and have added their medievil version of Islam to the mix. To be sure, Israel has it’s own share of nutjobs, but it’s not official policy to call for the anilalation of their neighbors. What will happen when Iran goes nuclear with Ahmadinajad, and his Shiite version of end times, with his finger on the button. I think he’s more interested in wiping out Israel than in helping the Palestinians who will be vaporised along with the despised Zionists. It’s bad enough having our own guy with two more years left in power to push the button and fast forward to the rapture. Israel has made plenty of mistakes and maybe this wall is one of them, but when the redskins (oops, I meant native americans) have the wagon train surrounded and are firing in burning arrows, it’s not always easy to think straight.

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By Mark Kienan, November 22, 2006 at 4:40 pm Link to this comment
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1. What will happen when Iran has a nuclear weapon?
2. What will happen when the US puppet regimes of Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Egypt are overthrown by the arab street just as is happening in Iraq?
3. What will happen when instead of fighting essentially unarmed Palestinian men, women and children Israel is confronted with a nuclear armed muslim army that is seething with anger for the years of brutality openly and arrogantly meted out to Palestinians/Leboneses by the Israelis?
4. I expect there is going to be a precipitous move to make peace and also emigrate.
5. The day of a nuclear armed muslim/arab army is not far away. It is inevitable.

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By JSD, November 22, 2006 at 3:09 pm Link to this comment
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The wall, of course, is a result of Israeli politics. It has lessened, no doubt, suicide bombing attacks, therefore creating the political situation in Israel for its extension, etc., and the ensuing abuses of its use.

The solution begins with a new U.S. Executive administration committed to resuming a Peace process; but more: committed to a just resolution in Palestine.

If and when this process resumes, the wall will, in all likelihood, be a latterly issue to get the Israelis to address—well after security issues, etc.

A new Peace Process should begin, conceptually, not with Palestinian Jews’ and Arabs’ issues, but with a U.S. realization that we Americans are responsible for what Israel does. Israel is both our ally and, more importantly, Israel is our client. We support Israel. Israel could not do what it does; Israel could not survive without us.

Therefore the U.S. is complicit in crimes committed by Israel. We must be jurist then in this respect. Without some measure of deep feeling for our American responsibility for the sufferings of both Arabs and Jews in Palestine, I have little hope for a truly comprehensive and finally just resolution to the problems there.

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By michaellange, November 22, 2006 at 2:14 pm Link to this comment
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The similarities of how Jews were treated by th nazis in the warsaw ghetto are overwhelming; the comments by Avigdor Lieberman (a mouthpiece of the present government) as well as B. Netanyuh about mass transfer of Palestinians to Jordan has overtones of the Nazis’s Endloesung—the daily humiliation of a group of people simply because of their religion (one cannot say race as both Jews and Arabs believe they are both descended from Abraham) and language, wanton killings of palestinians on a daily basis, the imprisonment of an entire people in “Bantustans”—the only thing missing is the gaschambers, although Mr. Liebermann’s comment of sending Palestinians to Paradise raises this spectre as well.  And yet who is a t fault—essentially it is us Americans who do not want to admit that these atrocities could be stopped immedaiately by stopping the American financial support of Israel.. For America the ongoing Israeli unwillingness to come to terms with their Palestinian problem in a fair and internationally accepted way, is the prime issue of securing America’s national security.  Until Americans force their government to adopt a truly balanced view on this issue, they will not have any chance to succeed on any of the issues they have set out to achieve in the Middle East.  Their are many brave Israeliswho have spoken out on this issue as well as brave American Jews, yet why do we never see them invited on American talkshows.  For every Willaim Krystol, Richard Perle, Elliott Abrams lets have an Amira Haass, Norman Finkelstein, Uri Avery, Nom Chomsky etc.  Until we rise up to being totally brainwashed and lied to by our corporate/government public and cable television outlets,  we will rapidly march towards the Biblical Armaggedon that our rightwing pundits are promoting so lightheartedly.

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By Brewer, November 22, 2006 at 1:32 pm Link to this comment
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It is not difficult to understand the confusion of well meaning Israel supporters. The media bias is extraordinary. The facts are rarely aired:

“During the conflict Palestinian children have consistently made up a disproportionately large number of Palestinian deaths. In this first year children’s deaths accounted for 24% of the Palestinians killed, while children’s deaths accounted for 17% of Israelis killed.
During this time, ABC reported on 56 Israeli children’s deaths (including repetitions in later newscasts) and 19 Palestinian children’s deaths – 200% of Israeli children and 15% of Palestinian children, a ratio of 13.8 to 1.
CBS reported on 37 Israeli children’s deaths (including repetitions) and 27 Palestinian children’s deaths – 132% of Israeli children’s deaths and 21% of Palestinian children’s deaths, a ratio of 6.4 to 1.
NBC reported on 45 Israeli children’s deaths (including repetitions) and 17 Palestinian children’s deaths – 161% of Israeli children and 13% of Palestinian children’s deaths, a ratio of 12.4 to 1.

Collectively, the networks reported on an average of 46 Israeli children’s deaths – 164% of the Israeli children killed – and 21 Palestinian children’s deaths – 16% of the Palestinian children killed. In other words, the networks reported on Israeli children’s deaths at a rate 10.2 times greater than Palestinian children’s deaths.
To understand the pattern of network news coverage of children’s deaths, it is useful to compare the number of deaths reported to the actual number that took place. While repeated coverage of Israeli children’s deaths creates an impression of a higher number of Israeli victims than there actually were, omissions of the majority of Palestinian children’s deaths considerably under-represents the number of Palestinian child victims.
Comparing the day-by-day reporting of children’s deaths to the actual daily death toll reveals an additional dimension of the distortion. In this comparison, we discover that the reports on Palestinian children’s deaths followed the curve for Israeli children’s deaths, rather than the much steeper curve of their actual death count.
This finding underscores the tendency by all three networks to report a fictional situation in which Israeli and Palestinian deaths occur at more or less the same rate, and illustrates the substantial gap between the reality of Palestinian fatalities and the coverage of them. It suggests that the desire to appear ‘balanced’ is too often prioritized above the need for accuracy.”

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/media/net-report.html

Consider that the Palestinian children die at the hands of a highly organized military force that claims to target only militants and the Israeli deaths are caused by random attacks. How is it possible that nearly eight times as many Palestinian children are being killed as are Israeli children?

http://www.brewerstroupe.blogspot.com

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By Robert, November 22, 2006 at 10:42 am Link to this comment
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Re: Comment #39189 posted on 11/21


It looks like “Ken Schreier” has re-surfaced on this forum after last week’s defeat exit from “Israel’s Barrier to Peace” forum.

Ken is at it again with that same familiar zionist jewish method of screaming “anti-semitism” in order to attempt to silence TRUTH about his Israeli democracy “for Jews only”.

For references to above, one can type “barrier” in “truthdig.com” search area…which will take you to Chris Hedges: Israel’s Barrier to Peace & its 900 plus comments forum/discussion.

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By Robert, November 22, 2006 at 8:43 am Link to this comment
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Re: Comment #39077 by Bill on 11/21

“Israel is certainly not perfect, but you can’t make peace with enemies who have no interest in peace. It’s not to the advantage of Hamas to make peace, after all. It’s not to the advantage of Syria and Iran, either. What choice is there?”


Wow…Bill!  Which source of our mainstream news media are you quoting & echoing here? Is it CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC…and others?

Our mainstream news media outlets are mainly owned & controlled by zionist Jews. Their main interests in regards to the Mid-East & Israel is to spew their propaganda of smear & fear of Arab & Moslem countries and, at the same time, shield Israel from any wrong doing or criticism.

Israel is a brutal terrorist state. Its brutal army continues to murder innocent Palestinians & Lebanese civilians without any respect for Human Rights, Geneva Conventions, International Law, UN Convensions. It relies on the U.S. for diplomatic cover & protection. The U.S. almost always vetoes any UN resolutions going against Israel’s for its brutal atrocities.

Israel continues to occupy Palestinian land and continues to expand its Jewish settlements all over the “Occupied Territories” defying International Law & UN resolution 242 & 338, which the U.S. supported.

Israel does NOT want peace at all. It wants to expand its boundaries & by murdering & evicting Palestinians from their homes & land.

So long as there is turmoil, which Israel prefers, so that U.S. aid keeps coming their way & with no questions asked. $3-5 billion dollars per year.

If there is peace in the region, why would Israel need $3-5 billion dollars of aid per year?

Look at who is funding and paying for that damn APARTHEID wall that separates people from their loved ones, their farms & olive trees, their hospitals, their schools, their villages, towns, their mosques, their neighbors.

Its those loyal American taxpayers!!!

Bill…here is a link for everyone on this forum to see the REAL Israel & its brutal IDF / settlers.

Human Rights workers viciously attacked by Israeli settlers. They were confronted by 100 settlers in small groups, who started chanting in Hebrew “WE KILLED JESUS, WE’LL KILL YOU TOO!”

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=687

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By jeff gershoff, November 22, 2006 at 8:39 am Link to this comment
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I’m disgusted from reading all of the posts to this article.  Neither the Israelis nor the Palestinians are right or righteous.  They are both sad, blind, weasels fighting in a hole.  As to the rest of my fellow posters here.  Don’t you see the futility of this gnawing, frantic, anxious desire for “figuring this problem out”?  You’re not going to figure this problem out.  The knot, the rats nest, the labyrinth is so twisted and wrapped in and around itself it is simply just one ball of sludge.  If I were me, and I am, I’d start getting myself prepared for the new world order which is coming very soon and I’m afraid is the type of science fiction vision that is not very pretty to us “civilized” early 21st century humans.  Let’s quote Yeats, “Let all things pass away”.

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By Gloria, November 22, 2006 at 8:36 am Link to this comment
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Israel can what it wants as long as I do not have to pay for it. That is the first thing that should have been said by President Bush on 9/11, “No country will receive another foreign aid payment until the masterminds of this attack are turned in to the United States of America.” But he didn’t say that and we and our grandchildren are going to pay for an unfinished war in Afganistan and an illegal invasion in Iraq for a hundred years. So Israel can build it’s fence if Israel pays for the fence itself. I am more worried about the stupid, expensive fence that we are going to build on the Mexican border. It would create jobs if we just used manpower and equipment to seal both borders and both coasts.

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By shum davar, November 22, 2006 at 2:23 am Link to this comment
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Your article is simply more of the non sense propaganda put forward by anti Israel bashers. There has never been a Palestinian people, Palestinan language, or unique Palestinian culture. There are displaced people from many wars around the world but wouldn’t you think in six decades that the displaced from formerly “British Palestine” could have been successfully made citizens of any of the dozens of surrounding states.  The Polish German border has moved several times over the last cenury. Millions of ethnic Germans and Poles forced out of their farms, villages, and cities and made citizens of their new homeland.  In wars there are winners and loosers.  The Arabs (with your worldwide liberal support) have allowed this festering problem to continue.  Oslo was a shame and your Arafat honorarium pure hoakum.  Jordan is the Palestinian state with almost 80% of the population made up of decendants of British Palestine partition and the wars that followed it.  Let the rest of the Palestinians who don’t want to be Israeli join their families and move there !  If you lived in a nation the size of NJ you too would be threatened and damaged when the terrorists, suicide bombers, katushas and missles, strike. You would be only kilometers from such terror and death. Acts of war must be dealt with firmly.  The wall is only a protective measure. History has shown that wars usually are only terminated when on side has suffered horriffic casualties.  WW2 is the perfect example. Those that call themselves Palestinians are going to bring their own confligration onto themselves!

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By Ken Schreier, November 21, 2006 at 11:54 pm Link to this comment
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The anti-Jewish talking heads are at it again !
Good thing they are very small in number !
Good thing their one sided support of the terrorist groups in the West Bank & Gaza are very evident, aka, Hamas & Hezbollah !
No condemnation of arab muslim doctrine for the destruction of Israel is ever stated on this website !
Thank God these people have no influence at all in the situation in the Middle East !
Keep those anti-Jewish comments coming people, so your prejudice & hate of the Jewish people can be seen by all who browse this racist site !
God help you to see the wrong that you do and enlighten your mind to understand the truth !

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By Warren Greer, November 21, 2006 at 11:40 pm Link to this comment
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Dang!  I thought this was about the Wall between the U.S. and the rest of North America!  Oh, well.  As long as I’m here, here’s my two centavos.
    The U.S. got the upper third of the United Mexican States (that’s who they are—it’s on their money) as spoils of war, after we settled Texas with Gringos who got land by attesting they had converted to Catholicism and became Mexican citizens.  The Latino Texans didn’t like the dictator, Santa Ana, so we pried Texas off with their help, then promptly (or not so promptly, those hot-blooded Latinos have a poorly developed sense of time as well as all the other things Schwarrttzzennegger documented) took all their land away from them.  Now, we keep them starving at home, working illegally in U.S., and second-class all the way!  They are our spoils of war, right?  The loot that keeps on producing booty! 
    Well, I hope this fit into the discussion you guys were having.  I like the part about
Waaaalls!

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By Robert, November 21, 2006 at 7:32 pm Link to this comment
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(‘“THE VIOLATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS I THINK IN THIS TERRITORY IS MASSIVE,” LOUISE ARBOUR, THE UN HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR HUMAN RIGHTS, SAID DURING A VISIT TO BEIT HANOUN, GAZA, A TOWN THE ISRAELI ARMY SHELLED EARLIER THIS MONTH, KILLING 19 PALESTINIAN CIVILIANS.)

The pictures reflect the pain, suffering, and the abuse of human rights of Palestinians by Israel’s brutal policy & army.

Here is the link where the pictures tell the rest of the tragic STORY:


http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=693

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By Ned, November 21, 2006 at 4:16 pm Link to this comment
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I love the logic of the pro-Israeli arguments.  How is taking 40% of Palestinian land a form of self defense?  Israel is the only nation in the world who can get away with such atrocities.

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By Brewer, November 21, 2006 at 1:32 pm Link to this comment
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Since partition, Israel has increased it’s landholding in Greater Palestine from approximately 50% to 78%. It has done this through the implementation of a deliberate policy of terror against a people whose only defences are home-made rockets and their own bodies. The current death rate is 76 Palestinian to 1 Israeli and the majority of Palestinian casualties are civilian. The Settlements in occupied territory are a crime under the Geneva convention. An Israeli organization, PeaceNow, has just announced that 40% of the settlements occupy stolen private land (http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/790748.html)
Israeli so-called “peace initiatives” are chimera. The invasion and terror have never let up. Oslo was a hopelessly flawed initiative designed to either legitimise Israeli incursions and create a Palestinian State impossible to manage, or to fail entirely and excuse further incursions.
For years, Israel has shelled, bombed and bulldozed Palestinian houses and olive groves, killing civilians. It routinely carries out the kidnapping and assassination of any Palestinian citizen it pleases, including democratically elected officials.
The wall serves two purposes. On the one hand it alienates vast tracts of Palestinian land and on the other, it turns Gaza and the West Bank into a series of concentration camps, seperating Palestinians from schools, medical services and each other. It will not bring security and peace to Israel and that is not it’s purpose. (See “The Fence” 
http://www.brewerstroupe.blogspot.com/ )
Israel’s actions in Palestine, South Lebanon and Golan have a single purpose, the expansion of an Apartheid State.
This anachronistic, fascist wall must be stopped

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By Helmut, November 21, 2006 at 1:06 pm Link to this comment
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Yes, the ZOG runs every thing. It isnt the US military industrial Complex. It is ZOG. It isnt the Anglo Saxon / Germanic elite that have been running the show since Constantine was the Emperor; it is the lowly shylock and his brethren that call the shots. Buh. Whatever. Build the wall, enslave the palestinians. Engulf the middle east in flames, let the flames spread to the rest of the world so that we can finally be rid of the disease (Man). And who will be left to claim the prize? The same Anglo Saxon Germanic Cabal that was running the show to begin with. Straight out of Sun Tzu, classic end game, set and match. Shalom!

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By Bill, November 21, 2006 at 9:00 am Link to this comment
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What does Chris Hedges expect? It takes two to make peace. And every halting Israeli step towards peace (like unilaterally giving up the Gaza strip, for example) finds no corresponding movement on the other side, just more violence, more attacks on their citizens.

You’ve got two sides that hate each other, with strong disagreements between them and no trust at all. You don’t wipe that away in an instant. No, if they truly want peace, one side makes minor concessions, slow movements toward peace, and the other does the same.

This isn’t happening here. Israel’s attempts are met with increased violence (which simply increases the power of hard-liners in that country). What are they to do now? If you can’t have peace, you must try to protect yourself the best you can. You must try to survive until someday, maybe, your enemies will be ready to start the long, slow peace process.

Israel is certainly not perfect, but you can’t make peace with enemies who have no interest in peace. It’s not to the advantage of Hamas to make peace, after all. It’s not to the advantage of Syria and Iran, either. What choice is there?

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By dboylon, November 21, 2006 at 6:19 am Link to this comment
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All empires rise and fall. This is the way of history. Americans and Israelis don’t see it coming. When America has its financial collapse who will support Israel then? Israel is doomed. They are there own worst enemy. If their leaders were smart they would have negotiated peace along the Saudi initiative when America first invaded Iraq. They would have been negotiating from a point of strength. Israel already looks weak because of Lebanon. The price for peace has gone up…and it will only get worse for them.

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By Jaded Prole, November 21, 2006 at 4:53 am Link to this comment
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Jimmy Carter is right to ask “Peace or Apartheid.” There is no place in the civilized world for states based on ethnicity and terror. It’s time for us to stop underwriting Israel. That is the only avenue to peace in the middle east. Don’t count on the Democrats to do anything but continue our blind support for zionist terror. We must turn up the heat and demand an end to US support.

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By Robert, November 20, 2006 at 8:21 pm Link to this comment
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American Israel Public Affair Committee (AIPAC) occupies the U.S. Congress. Its lobbyists are all over Washington, Congress & US Senate offices drumming up support for a foreign country…ISRAEL.

Its not about American national interest; its all about Israel & Jewish interests!

Who is footing the never endless bill for this persistent & cancerous support? Its the American taxpayers!

Israel gets $3-5 billion dollars of American aid per year.

Over $108 billion dollars of American aid to Israel (1948-2006) non-stop & on-going right this minute.

Americans are in the dark when it involves Israel, AIPAC & the lobbyist’s pressure on our elected officials.

The American people need to wake up & get rid of this malignant CANCER that is spreading & suffocating our souls! We should demand that American interests come first.

We should stand, support & demand for TRUTH, fairness, justice, human rights, UN charters, just peace, international law in the Mid-East.

We should not let Cheney and his gang(Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz,Adelman, Douglas feith, William Kristol, Eliot Abrams, Ari Fleischer, Scooter Libby & others) at the Pentagon take complete control of American policy in the Mid-East.

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By busta, November 20, 2006 at 4:52 pm Link to this comment
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The Berlin wall was to separate to world powers ready to destroy each other, and only went down when both sides decided to use reason to come to peace instead of distrust and hate.  This wall should come down when both of these groups have that same reasoned moment, until then it should not come down.

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By How about recognizing who was bombing who? No one, November 20, 2006 at 3:53 pm Link to this comment
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Such rot.  If you lived under so many years of irrational bombing, hatred, and international isolation, much of it even long before the intifada I and II, how would you react?  The US has one bombing by a international terrorist and we go irrational.  Israel has managed to stay a democracy and an regional economic giant even under this pressure. 

I do not justify claiming farmland and aquifers, nor do I want to justify separating Palestinians from their lawful work, but the Israelis have lived under the potential for destruction since 1948.  The Arabs, or more precisely, the Arab nationalists, tried to eliminate Israel 4 times officially and now many times unofficially.  For all the legitimate suffering in the West Bank and Gaza, for Allah’s sake, where is the Arab investment in those communities, huh?  Ask why the Arab league has never stepped in to help the Palestinian communities.  Ask why it is Hamas and Hezbollah that are given funds set up clinics and food banks.  Ask why aid from Arab countries, amongst the wealthiest in the world is generally military and not about building infrastructure.  Why?  Quite simply:  because that sort of constructive help would give the Palestinians a reason to give up their current fight and reduce the ability to recruit for the destruction of Israel.

Israel is not blameless.  But as a previous writer suggested, being against an act does not make me against Israel.  The issue is really not about a fence—it’s about how to protect yourself when your neighbor refuses to acknowledge your right to live next door.

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By One For Dissent, November 20, 2006 at 1:43 pm Link to this comment
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Obviously the Globalists, who are in control of the U.S. government (you’re an absolute mindless, fearful sheep if you don’t see that) know that many, many American Christians love the Jews and Isreal, because they are God’s chosen people and it is the Promised Land. They are USING the U.S. to implement their evil reign on the world, and the Middle East must come to peace (every state must buy into the world banking system) before that will ever happen. Many Christian theologians believe the Anti-Christ will rise out of Isreal.

But if Man still has the strength to SEE this and defeat this, then it may not happen in our time.

Who is fed up with our government not doing what the majority of Americans want? Down with tyranny! Die you evil internationalist bastards!

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By k shamash, November 20, 2006 at 1:17 pm Link to this comment
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Wall is a shame.  Bigger shame is these sick idealogues who are bent on killing and maiming innocents. 
Hence the wall.  Shame but very necessary.

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By felicity, November 20, 2006 at 12:21 pm Link to this comment
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International Court of Justice said that the wall Israel is building violates international law, must stop and what is built must be torn down.  Israel argues that human rights treaties do not apply to what it does in the Palestinian territory or the West Bank.

The US, by funding the wall is acting outside of International Law.

We scream bloody murder when another country - Iran, North Korea, Iraq…defies the ICJ or a particular UN Resolution, but are amazingly quiet when we do. Our hypocracy is stunning.

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By MARIAM RUSSELL, November 20, 2006 at 10:06 am Link to this comment
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BTW…....

I do not equate objecting to the carnage wrought by the Jewish State with being ¨ANTI-SEMITIC¨, A MISUSE OF THE WORD, BY THE WAY, AS SEMITES ARE/WERE JEWS, ARABS, THE ANCIENT ASSYRIANS, BABYLONIANS, CARTHAGINIANS, ETHIOPIANS, AND PHOENICIANS.

I also do not equate objecting to the carnage wrought by the government of the US at the behest of the corporations to un-patriotism…..quite the opposite.

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By harsaru, November 20, 2006 at 9:57 am Link to this comment
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shades of the concentration camps??????

Why is this happening?
Why is the world quiet?
Don’t the israeli’s think that palestinians are human beings?
Why does the majority of the media in the west always take the side of Israel when they are clearly in the wrong?

why?

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By MARIAM RUSSELL, November 20, 2006 at 9:54 am Link to this comment
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Ya know, Chris, the Jewish state maybe needs to be doomed. So Our Mr. Hitler killed six million of them. That is a shame, and I´m sorry, but does that make me willing to see them commiting the exact same atrocities on a people whose only crime was that they were living on the land that the Jews lived on several thousand years ago? And, because of the amount of my and your taxpayer dollars that go to support and arm Israel, my and your names are on every bomb and other method of destruction used.

ENOUGH, I SAY.

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By harald hardrada, November 20, 2006 at 9:54 am Link to this comment
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israel’s desperation stems from its demographics

since the last russian jews arrived, israel’s had to depend on the declining fertility of its own citizens—meanwhile palestinians are multiplying fast

americans want to build their own border fence: they take their cue from the israelis—official analysts think they’re clever in saying israel’s the 51st state, but they’re wrong: america’s a province of israel

america’s skewed desperation [frightened white folks] is more complex than israel’s, given that immigrants keep coming, offset partly by the decline in blacks as some blacks become white & as other blacks have smaller families

israelis & america’s frightened white folks pool their interests through their common warmongering & general hostility to the Other, whoever the Other may be—it’s no accident that condoleezza threatens everybody in sight & that bolton shrieks at other countries in the united nations—these are signs of america’s lost strength

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By Quy Tran, November 20, 2006 at 9:14 am Link to this comment
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New Berlin walls have been erected. One in Gaza and the other in Arizona.

God Bless all the victims !

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By Julia Glifford, November 20, 2006 at 9:01 am Link to this comment
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Israel is the villain in all these wars. All the dead, all the money - why can’t Americans free themselves from these demons.

Wolfowitz, Perle, Ledeen, all Israeli Jews.

These are our enemies.

Wake up you stupid GOY ... we are a nation under occupation

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