While I was in Seminary, a Psychiatrist\prof made the statement that “90% of the clergy are in the pulpit trying to keep themselves straight.” “Straight” had a different meaning then than now.

If The Reverend Haggard had done what he was doing, (e.g. Mr. Jones, and a recreational drug) but had never made homosexuality an open issue in his “ministry”, he likely could have continued as he was for a long time and Mr. Jones, hypothethically, may have become one of his strongest supporters! Instead, he was condemning publically what he was doing privately, so Rev. Haggard was living three lives: an adult gay male, a married man with children, and a religious. Something had to give, so personally I thank Mr. Jones for outing Haggard. That needed to happen. It couldn’t have happened to a more deserving person. And perhaps now Rev. Haggard can get a real life based on who and what he is ... instead of building a new closet and\or getting a new spiritual facade to hide behind.

Reverend Haggard must surely have tremendous spiritual gifts and abilities. What a waste if he refuses to live life as it is intended for him and refuses to use his remarkable gifts for the common good of all people everywhere. Jesus said nothing about homosexuality; how can anyone, especially a gay religious, go beyond the authority of Christ without expecting strong repercussions?

Dan, if Mike Jones had any malice in exposing him, that is unforgiveable. however, Ted Haggard was a public figure. he was gay or bisexual, and yet he publicly opposed gay rights. I think it was justifiable for Jones to out him.

it’s a dilemma - how do we apply Christ’s command to turn the other cheek in this situation? I don’t believe that Jesus was calling us to passive submission to violence.

certainly, many Christians do recognize the right to self-defence. outing can be a form of self-defence against political violence, and I think many pacifists who shun physical violence will accept self-defence that does not use physical violence. outing can expose hypocrisy, and it makes the hypocrites finally confront their own sexuality. see the section on the figurative interpretation for turning the other cheek at Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_the_other_cheek

unfortunately, the fundamentalists will make them repress it, but there is the hope that they will choose to live in God’s love as members of the LGBT community. why don’t you write to Haggard, and tell him that it’s OK to be Christian and gay?

I think that, if Jones bore Haggard any malice when he outed him, Haggard’s public malice towards the LGBT community is worse. to remain completely silence would have been to acquiesce to oppression. is there a better solution you have that you can share? I think we all would be blessed if you could share it.

in any case, I do pray that Mike Jones is at peace, and that he is safe from retaliation.

Mr. Haggard’s ideas and his ways of presenting them are odious, so one is perfectly justified in attacking his ideas and his style of argument.

But to slander him, ruin his life and his family’s lives, is indefensible.

Moreover, one has only succeeded in showing Mr. Haggard’s personal failings. One hasn’t demonstrated the failure of his ideas.

True believers can, and will, argue that the fundamentalist program is sound, and that the failure was limited to one flawed individual.

The problem lies in fundametalism itself, not in the failings of one of its preachers.

Lorenzo, as for looking afield to places where gay marriage is tolerated. don’t forget New Zealand. My wife’s hairdresser and his partner are flying there to get hitched next month. It’s legally meaningless, since the Liberal (ironic name for the right-wing party here) government of John Howard is rabidly resisting even civil unions. The Australian Capital Territory (i.e. Canberra) a quasi-state entity similar to Washington, D.C., made civil unions legal, and Howard’s party stepped all over the principles of federalism to quash it. So the battle for gay legal rights is going on all over the world.

Re:Comment 38300 by Dan; Do please leave Mr. Jones “malice” out of this conversation.  What he did in “outing” the X-Rev.Haggard took lots of courage on several levels. Haggard’s duplicity deserved to be exposed and if the consequence was a “ruined life and reputation” he richly earned it. His sexual exposure was Mr. Jones great gift to Mr. Haggard but the X-Rev.is too much of a liar and a coward to accept it for the truth that it is.  Ms Goodman makes reference to the incremental movement toward gay marriage in the state of Massachusetts but she might have looked further afield for a more progressive and contemporary approach by looking at the news out of South Africa and Mexico City.  The United States will be brought to the altar of same sex marriage kicking and screaming the way it has reluctantly come to accept all social justice changes. Ms Goodman chooses the correct word “increments” and Mr. Jones made one more great and powerful contribution to the change that is surely coming and I sincerely thank him for it.

I find it hard to understand why so many who claim to follow Jesus, feel compelled to denounce those who He never criticized.

Many limes those who are so brutal with their words seem to be uncertain about their own sexual orientation and gay bashing becomes a defense mechanism for them.

It is wise to pay attention to what people profess so loudly to be for, or against.  Sometimes they are just trying to convince themselves or hide their shadow.  Notice how many supposedly Christians backed the most un-Christianlike policies of Bush and his bandits?  People who are comfortable in their own skin and their own sexuality, have no need to bash others for their sexual preferences.  When someone like Mr. Haggard comes out so strongly against homosexuals or anything else, it is wise to just ask yourself, “I wonder why they have so much of their energy invested in hating .....”  It is also important not to get pulled into their energy field by hating them for what they hate.  Just wonder, don’t judge.

Poor Pastor Ted.  All those years of “warring” within himself and forgetting a simple fact, that G-d does not create mistakes.  That the real sin here and within Ted, is hate.  A hate so vile, so ugly, so beyond black, that he routinely used it to destroy the lives of others, to do as much damage to others of his own kind, and worse, did it in the name of Jesus who greatest teaching (at least to this Jew) was that of Love - love for self, love for family, neigbors, and most of all (and very Jewish) the stranger in your midst and those who are disenfranchised.

For all his hating the “dirt” inside himself, Pastor Ted’s life is further evidence of his hypocrisy.  I’ll let stand for now his intentional lying (10 Commandments) to his wife, his kids, his co-workers, his fellow theologians (hmm… not sure about that one), and to his flock. 

There is a critical falicy (phallacy - ?) to Ted Haggard’s story - he engaged in several, willful, deliberate, premediated acts -
1. He kept going back to the bed of the same man
2. He kept paying cash for his sex
3. He made no attempt to seek “help” from his evangelical brethren (perhaps wise on some levels, lest he end up on his back with them)
4. Once the news was out, he attempted to obfuscate the truth, to dissemble and lie.

There is no truth to his statements since this news became public.

The reality is that as long as we American continue to cling to our Puritan and Calvinist roots regarding sex and sexuality, we will continue to have this sort of widespread hypocrisy.  If the Evangelical movement wants to know why people hate (there’s that word again) them and religion in general so much, it’s because they do not practice, what they preach.  That’s the greatest crime because there is a lot that religion can teach us about how to treat each other, and our selves - with respect, compassion, kindness and mostly, love.

Eric

People like Haggard need sin. Sin is a great money maker and as long as there are people who enjoy both and can find a sucker to give up their cash and someone to label “sinner” there will be people like Haggard. Sin, a Holy Book and a Pulpit to thump it on are all these people need to bring in the flock. Sin gives the “In the name of God” speakers an excuse to speak. Which in turn brings them authority, control, power and profit. Haggard knew that well enough to build a Church which is little more than a Capitalist enterprise and use it to influence voters and politicians. A man who would shape government policy, without the authority granted by election should never be trusted, irregardless of what he is or who he sleeps with.

Please don’t mistake his pain for self-loathing. He’s not gay ... cured or uncured. He’s simply someone who saw an opportunity to grab money and power, who enjoys “sinning”. If he weeps, like most cheats, he weeps because he got caught.

Mr. Haggard’s life and reputation were an illusion, a fantasy, and nobody knows that better than he does. The only real victims here are his wife and kids, and for them we should all feel compassion.

The thing that’s really weird about all this is, Haggards followers will find endless reasons to forgive and embrace him and eventually he’ll be jerking them around again. But his family, particularly his wife will no doubt end up being blamed by the faithful for Ted’s indiscretions. Living in denial can really warp people, and I’m not talking about gays. Gays are not sinners. They are honest. The complete opposite of those like Haggard who condemn them.

I am hopeful that some degree of sanity will derive from this sordid incident. I have heard and read much in media of the words ‘hypocrisy’ and ‘hatred’, terms that should be, yet are not, separated from Christianity.

The difficult thing for Christians, especially those of us who are also gay, is to follow what Jesus taught us of loving, and of forgiving. If we cannot attain that level, then all we say or think on this subject is moot—we will find ourselves tangled just as deeply in the same hyprocrisy and hatred, venom against our own spiritual growth and wholeness.

I wonder how many gays who were taught to hate themselves and have undergone a “cure” are now in positions of authority - government, church, education - and are spreading this warped message even now.

Gay men were once thought to be the result of overprotective mothers. If mothers were underprotective, their boys ended up as criminals. Whatever - Mom was to blame.

Mr. Haggard ruined his own life, and also the lives of his wife, who looked completely destroyed, and his children, who will probably have to move away and change their names before they will be able to breathe easily again.

He preached hatred under the guise of religion. He was making more than $600,000 a year, plus expense accounts for his hookers and meth when he was travelling “on business”. He knew exactly what he was doing. His only regret will probably be that fat paycheck.

Dan,

How can you possibly say that Jones’s actions were driven by malice?  Malice?  A man that you’ve repeatedly had sex with and sold drugs to appears on your television one Sunday morning preaching a doctrine of hate and discrimination while pushing through public policy that legally discriminates against who you are.  This same man is preaching against the very thing you provide to him.  How is exposing that man, his hypocrisy, and holding him accountable for his own actions a sign of malice?  I don’t think making heroes out of drug-pushing hustlers is the right course of action, but I commend Jones for his actions and the public ridicule he’s had to endure in taking down this politically dangerous, self-loathing, hypocrite.

It’s a sad and sordid story all around.

Mr. Haggard’s worst offense wasn’t his hypocrisy, it was his hateful behavior toward gays. That would have been wrong even if he hadn’t been a hypocrite to boot.

Besides, is hypocrisy always wrong, or is it that much worse than all the other crimes we inflict upon each other?

Mr. Haggard’s hypocrisy was surely no worse than Mr. Jones’s malice in exposing him. Mr. Haggard’s life and reputation were ruined. Why should anyone admire Mr. Jones for perpetrating that?