Remember the Civil rights marchers?Remember the war protesters marchers of the seventies and the end of the Viet Nam war when the returning vets marched in Washington?Where are our true Patroits?If we cared we would march until this ends.People are too involved in their individual lives.If we just ignore this crisis we will loose everything we hold dear and this country as we have known it to be for all time.When Bush leaves office there will be a draft,then you will see people wake up to what has been done to our country.But it will be too late.Who knows what Cheney has in mind for the next two years?Now is the time for those who care to march on washington in numbers never seen before.

I remember seeing Bush and Cheney on t.v. at an airport after the Supreme Court decision gave them the presidency in 2000.  They were being interviewed, and the topic was the miliary. If you remember the world prior to 2000, military wasn’t something often spoken about; the world was pretty peaceful.  Their comments were that they were going to build up the military, because we didn’t have a military plan; and they were also going to develop an energy plan because we didn’t have one.  So, you see what these master planners have accomplished in 6 short years.

I notice that a lot of you are now splitting hairs about what percentage of the population did or didn’t vote vote for George W.
The fact remains that he IS the president.
The first time he ‘Stole’ the election but the SECOND time he won. If the American people cannot bestir themselves to cast their votes and then get’the wrong guy’ well thats that.

The point is that people are suffering and dying and it looks like the US is now talking about attacking Iran.

More suffering and dying.

But lets get real- God chose Bush to rule America (and the world??) Katherine Harris says so!!

bush has never run the country. Cheney runs Bush and avoids all scritiny as vp.  Bush has the mind of a spoiled and illiterate adolescent .

What this demonstrates to me is the power of insitution of the U.S. presidency and danger it poses for the whole world not just the U.S. The fact that a president can declare a war on other nations without reason demonstates that there is something fundamentally wrong with the institutions of government.

CORRECTION:

In 2000, Dubya got the 50 Million and Gore got the 51 Million votes.

Actual count:

Dubya: 50,456,002 - 47.87%
Gore: 50,999,897 - 48.38%

Who says voter fraud is not important?

Ga: Speaking strictly in terms of votes as a percentage of eligible voters, I will certainly concede your point. I was not confused at all, but surrendered to my less precise statement to avoid getting into a discussion of statistics and sampling, which I feared no one would appreciate or understand. But given your flip statement about mathematics, I will assume that YOU are familiar with concepts in statistics such as sampling errors, level of confidence, margin of error, etc., for purposes of the following discussion.

There is a widespread obsession these days with the idea that “every vote counts”. At least at the national level, where millions of votes from tens of thousands of precincts are involved, this is in my opinion a misleading notion. Even if intentions were completely honest all around (and we DO know better, don’t we?), there will always be errors in the reported vote—there are just too many ways for inaccuracies to creep into the process. (Yes, I will certainly concede that it can be made better than it is today, but that is another discussion entirely.) Even if we can get the count to within plus or minus one-half of one percent of the “true” total, that translates to plus or minus 500,000 votes if 100 million people are voting). This puts us pretty much in the ballpark with the numbers under dispute in 2000.

I believe that you have to look at a national election as nothing more than “the last poll of the election season”. If you have ever studied statistics, you know that we could come excruciatingly close to the actual election result by properly sampling a tiny percentage of the electorate. But we don’t do that, partly because there are people who would feel excluded from the process, and perhaps because it would make the result easier to manipulate. (I could make a pretty good argument as to why the pluses of such a process might outweigh the minuses, but I will leave that one for another time, too.)

Calling for a recount in a close election is generally done because clever people inside the “loser’s” campaign ARE schooled in statistics, and realize that they have a good chance of even a perfectly clean recount coming out in their favor the second time around. You will almost certainly get a different number EVERY TIME you count that many votes. The real trick in such situations is to count them until you win, and then stop your opponent from counting them yet again!

Along these lines, one could assert that we had a statistical “dead heat” in 2000. If that is so, I would object to the outcome based on the fact that we have a constitutional process for choosing the president when there is a tie in the electoral vote, and we did not use it.

If one takes a statistical view of an election result, the only objection to the result one can bring to the table is that a statistically significant number of members of a demographic subclass favoring your candidate were excluded from voting.

And last but not least, most of the people who didn’t vote don’t deserve to be considered part of the electorate, since they chose not to express their will at the ballot box. I am aware that a good number of people that should have been allowed to vote were turned away, but those do not even come close to accounting for the 101 million people that stayed home on Election Day in 2000.

(P.S. Neither one of those guys were MY candidate.)

“Virtually half the country voted for Bush…”

In what country was that?

In the U.S., in 2000, of about 203 Million eligible voters, there were about 51 Million for Dubya and about 50 Millions for Gore.

In the U.S., in 2004, of about 217 Million eligible voters, about 60 Million voted for Dubya, and about 59 Million for Kerry.

Do you know what “mathematics” is? More importantly, “percentages”.

What you may have done was to confuse the fact that Dubya got 50.7% of the votes (in 2004). But that does not mean that “half the country voted for him”, only that “half the voters who voted, voted for him”.

Now, as for

“Our votes did not elect George Bush. Most Americans voted against him, or wanted to vote against him, but election fraud got him into office.”

The Supreme Court, basically, declared Dubya winner in 2000. And Gore did get more of the popular vote. And there was documented voter fraud.

The latter—voter fraud—should have ROCKED THIS COUNTRY TO THE CORE, regardless of “which party won.” Why did it not?

Could it have been—because of people like you whose candidate “won” were perfectly happy to look the other way at the worst type of fraud that ever could occur in a Democracy?

Just what would you be saying if Gore or Kerry “won” and there was documented voter fraud? Screaming bloody murder!

Please spare us the sentimental posturing about
scumbag Bush/Cheney “tragic lack of logic” This is just a stupid euphemism and an example of the
intellectual and spiritual cowardice of 99 out of 100 of you media journalists.

These are liars to the backbone, criminals and an illegal administration to boot. These whores only serve the rich. Mark Twain despised this vermin in the late 19th century, and Theodore Roosevelt called their masters “malefactors of great wealth”

Do your homework on your American history and stop your adolescent whimpering. It’s disgusting!

Ion C. Laskaris, Burlington,Vt.+ iclrevusa.com

It’s time to reject the dividers and reach for union.

The thing here is, when collateral damage is questioned, the answer is always, “well, in war that stuff happens.” Which is true.
But it gets sticky when the realization sinks in that we started a war with someone who didn’t attack us. It should be no surprise to anyone why the administration has been so insistant about the connection of 9-11 to Iraq, because without it, collateral damage
suddenly takes on the aspect of war crime.

This fear in america has been in denial/building for awhile,now it is being exploited by the ones that created it to gain more control/money,it’s working.The Hegelian philosophy of the Skull&Bones;,create a problem,then be asked to fix it, and get/take more control. CIA have toppled/replaced dictators all over the world ,why not at home ?
If it is not countered emensely there will be no stopping it,then what ? Worlds worse nightmare AGAIN Just like Hitler,the SS,etc, but NOW WORSE

Daniel: “Our votes did not elect George Bush. Most Americans voted against him, or wanted to vote against him, but election fraud got him into office.”

To continue telling yourself that a handful of ballot boxes are all that came between our current situation and “a better day in America” is to blind yourself to the things causing the real problems in this country today. Whether you believe that the count fell one millimeter to the right or to the left of 50/50, the real lesson to take away is that “most” of us did not vote against him. Virtually half the country voted for Bush, and it was even worse in ‘04!. This a fact that needs to be confronted by anyone that realistically hopes to help turn things around in this country.

Get over Election 2000, dude, if you ever hope to realize what people of good will are really confronting in this country. There are SO many challenges that need to be dealt with, but the main one is definitely not electoral fraud.

>>>>Please, if you haven’t, read 1984 by George Orwell. <<<<

Also see V is for Vendetta.

And get out in the streets.

People have to get out in the streets, Man the barricades, stop the war machine!

We have to defeat the right. How can this be done despite the media being right wing???

There are hundreds of demonstrations across the nation but we need many more. Join various anti war groups and get ready to go door to door. We have to build a vigorous left wing in this country.

Read more here: http://thenonsequitur.com/?p=220

Q: Quick follow-up. A lot of the consequences you mentioned for pulling out seem like maybe they never would have been there if we hadn’t gone in. How do you square all of that?

THE PRESIDENT: I square it because, imagine a world in which you had Saddam Hussein who had the capacity to make a weapon of mass destruction, who was paying suiciders to kill innocent life, who would — who had relations with Zarqawi. Imagine what the world would be like with him in power. The idea is to try to help change the Middle East.

Now, look, part of the reason we went into Iraq was — the main reason we went into Iraq at the time was we thought he had weapons of mass destruction. It turns out he didn’t, but he had the capacity to make weapons of mass destruction. But I also talked about the human suffering in Iraq, and I also talked the need to advance a freedom agenda. And so my question — my answer to your question is, is that, imagine a world in which Saddam Hussein was there, stirring up even more trouble in a part of the world that had so much resentment and so much hatred that people came and killed 3,000 of our citizens.

You know, I’ve heard this theory about everything was just fine until we arrived, and kind of “we’re going to stir up the hornet’s nest” theory. It just doesn’t hold water, as far as I’m concerned. The terrorists attacked us and killed 3,000 of our citizens before we started the freedom agenda in the Middle East.

Q: What did Iraq have to do with that?

THE PRESIDENT: What did Iraq have to do with what?

Q: The attack on the World Trade Center?

THE PRESIDENT: Nothing, except for it’s part of — and nobody has ever suggested in this administration that Saddam Hussein ordered the attack. Iraq was a — the lesson of September the 11th is, take threats before they fully materialize, Ken. Nobody has ever suggested that the attacks of September the 11th were ordered by Iraq. I have suggested, however, that resentment and the lack of hope create the breeding grounds for terrorists who are willing to use suiciders to kill to achieve an objective. I have made that case.

And one way to defeat that — defeat resentment is with hope. And the best way to do hope is through a form of government. Now, I said going into Iraq that we’ve got to take these threats seriously before they fully materialize. I saw a threat. I fully believe it was the right decision to remove Saddam Hussein, and I fully believe the world is better off without him. Now, the question is how do we succeed in Iraq? And you don’t succeed by leaving before the mission is complete, like some in this political process are suggesting.

My God. The man is clearly a frightened child, tripping over his own words, bungling the answers, knowing that he made a mess of it, yet knows—and clings to, desperately—the one way to keep trying to dig himself out: generate crazy fear in the American People.

Please, if you haven’t, read 1984 by George Orwell.  In it he explains how the wars continue abroad in Oceana.  The wars are designed to keep everybody afraid and to keep the ruling government in power.  Orwell nailed it, back then, when he wrote this book.  Fear is the only weapon the current Administration has for keeping itself in power; it only offers incentives to large business and the upper 5% of the populace.  And, if they are right that most people believe that 9/11 has something to do with Iraq, there is no question that the American people will respond to the fearful messages sent out by the Republican Party in power today.  Can someone please explain the timing of the alarm at the “plot” to blow up airliners?  The participants, apparently, had no passports and no dates for their actions; yet it was considered “imminent.”  Remember Cheney, who ordinarily does not deem it necessary to communicate with the general public, suddenly proclaimed that the Democrats like Lamont would aid Osama Bin Laden, a day or so before the announcement of the airline plot.  It was shown he knew about the British arrests at that time.  I may be wrong, but it seems to me that these “alarms” will occur regularly, whenever there is some “plot”, to keep everybody disturbed enough to vote for the Republicans, who are “strong” on defense against terrorists.  I await the call for a new selective service draft and hope that may shock some people into seeing through the ploy of using fear; but I’m not optimistic.

The run-up to the Iraq war was all lies.  Now they’ve started the run-up to attacking Iran.  Richard Armitage says we should talk with the leaders of Iran and Syria.  Who is going to talk to them?  Bush is unable to carry on an intelligent discourse and he knows it. And all the leaders of the world know it. And Rice knows it.  Bush sent her to talk during the Hezbollah/Israel crisis, when he should have done it.  The world knows why.  I’m convinced that Bush has some kind of brain deterioration and wonder what the next 2 years are going to be like. By the way, where has Laura been?

The saddest thing for me regarding Bush’s cavalier admission is the inexcusable abuse of our troops; how they were whipped into this collusion theory strategy. And now they want to stop-loss 60K more?  Indeed, when will this end?

Harsaru. You are right in saying that for many decades the American government has supported harsh dictatorships around the world. I too have traveled in North Africa and agree with you. People there have suffered enough. Most of us do NOT support these regimes.

But you are also wrong. Our votes did not elect George Bush. Most Americans voted against him, or wanted to vote against him, but election fraud got him into office. Even those who voted for him were scared by his lies. But just watch. We will take back control and make this government democratic again. And those who lied to us, who deceived us and the rest of the world, will be disgraced and out of power.

At one time, the US was like that, at least the liberals were.

Well reasoned and communicated !  I just cannot believe that so many still support this White House administration’s determination to continue in its imperialistic war.  I suppose it is because Mr. Bush, Cheney, et al, (friends) are still able to reap the monetary benefits from the Iraq/Afghanistan debacle.  They do not measure or consider the thousands of young men and women that face the next forty or fifty years minus their limbs, eyes, and disfigurements - which are directly the cause of Mr. Bush’s push to go to war.  With or without cause.
Mr. Bush’s absolute arrogance concerning the Iraq war, his statement in particular, “nothing” was appalling.  He conveyed to the populace that it simply did not matter whether there was a connection or not.  He is the decider.  More appalling is the fact that the congress continues to support this little squirt and his napoleonic complex (democracy is the only way).  My heart breaks for this once great, respected nation.  I am saddened by the harm caused by the greed of a few powerful individuals.  We have unwise leadership and America will reap what it has sewn.

“the people of these countries have suffered enough”

Chilling to read both post and comment. Five long years.

There is no more time to spend on the evidence. Fear and loathing is what the Republican party, the religious righteous and all the other exploiters have perpetrated on the planet. Because you see, they have a Plan.

The most frightening part of all this is no matter what the crime or disaster, the same cast of characters retains their grip on absolute power. What stops them from making things a whole lot worse?

It’s a sick and twisted start to the 21st century.

Where is your Conscience America?

Where is your Spine?

Oh dear me.

Never mind about what Bush the nose picker and farter says, Marie.

What do YOU say?

Why did the puppet’s manipulators pull his strings and send our troops to attack and occupy Iraq? Was it to get rid of a vicious and brutal dictator? Was it to bring democracy to the middle east? Was it to keep Saddam from getting out from under the cruel (to the Iraqi people) sanctions and developing his weapons to retaliate against Israel for their unwarranted and indefensible bombing of his nuclear facility back in the 80s?

If any of those things mentioned in the previous paragraph might be a pretty good reason for attacking and invading and occupying Iraq, WOULD WE HAVE DONE THEM IF IRAQ HAD NO OIL?

Ball’s in your court Marie. When do YOU start saying something instead of NOTHING?

Never mind; you’re not a bit different from Scheer and Conason and Ivins. None of you super investigative reporters have any inttention of looking for the truth. Finding it and reporting it might cost you some real money.

Beautiful!!

You cannot imagine how frightened we - who live in the third world - are. We watch the news and read stuff on the net and have no say at all in the unfolding of the “Third World War” which is what you americans are going to unleash on us. No matter that there are a lot of Americans who say “Not in my name” the fact is that it is your votes that elected George Bush and your taxes that pay for the soldiers and weapons that are killing thousands of people in Iraq and Afghanistan. It is the US government that has supported every single dictatorship in the world -with the exception of Fidel Castro - but including Saddam Hussain. I have travelled extensively in Iraq and Iran, Egypt and the Gulf
the people of these countries have suffered enough. They are not demons. they have( I should say HAD ) hopes and dreams just like the rest of us. The Iraquis have no hope and now Iran is being threatened. Where will this end ?
I grew up in an area where there were a lot of peace corps volunteers working. They were good people and I used to think America was like that.