Peddling this self-help BS goes against recent studies which show that upward mobility in America is a thing of the past, that today, the name of the game is paddle as fast as you can just to stay in place, or what’s even worse, get caught in the undertow. 

These self-help advocates usually play down the crucial role that luck plays for the few who somehow make it.  They often write memoirs which preach “follow my path and beat the odds just like I did.” Then, to those who do try and don’t beat the odds, they say “Sorry, you just didn’t have what it takes.” This is nothing but an updated version of the house-slave scolding the field-slaves. 

Yes, gangs are scary, but at least they’re an understandable, albeit self-defeating. reaction to a hostile world.  And the answer is?  We the poeple have to change the world, that’s what.  .  .

Frank, with all due respect, you should check your assumptions against the historical record of this country. To say that the problems associated with Black America has nothing to do with institutional povertry and racism is simply not true.

While I understand where Dr. Cosby is coming from in his ctitique of of the perceived lack of self-
responsibility in Black America, it simply isn’t possible to deny that the US Government is racist and not going to go out of its way to lift blacks out of poverty. You saw what happened in New Orleans, didn’t you? I suppose you’re going to say it was the poor black folk’s fault for being abandoned. As James Baldwin once remarked in a lecture I attended, “blaming the victim is their favorite game.”

To quote Malcolm X, “It’s impossible for a chicken to produce a duck egg. It can only produce according to what that particular system was constructed to produce. The system in this country cannot produce freedom for the Afro-American. It is impossible for this system, this economic system, this political system, this social system, this system period.” But wait, M.L. King also reched the same conclusion: “The evils of racism, economic exploitation, and militarism are all tied together...” Was it a coinicence that both men were murdered shortly after uttereing such sentiments? I think not. It also seems, Frank, that your position is debatable.

It makes me laugh when I hear the talking heads crow about how black people “love” Bill Clinton. All Clinton did was to cut off ADC, spend 8 billion dollars to build more jails to stick young uneducated, impoverished black men while at the same time approving a statute that cut federal funds for legal services for indigent prisoners.He also failed to get a bill through Congress that would have spent 5 billion on repairing the nation’s crumbling schools - in order to get the military its 250 billion dollar yearly stipend. Some friend.

Frank, even though your apparent committment to the capitalist system blinds you to its insidious crypto-authoritarian aspects, you are correct in saying that progress will be made by more voices speaking the “unpopular truth.” The exposing of Uncle Toms and their cynical, toxic double-dealing and drawing the connections between oppression and money are to be part of that “unpopular truth.”

Kudos to Asim for getting it right in this article.

The problem facing black youth today isn’t economic, it certainly isn’t capitalism, and it isn’t racism.  It also isn’t slavery as a historical institution, although the fact that slavery is an oft raised excuse being pushed by apologists for black America’s economic problems today is part of the problem.

Every one of you on this board who point to economics, racism, capitalism, colonialsm, etc. need to learn that YOU are a big part of the problem.  You blame everyone and everything but the black communities and individuals themselves. You preach the oppressed victim mentality to black youths and doom them by teaching them to believe in predetermined failure rather than opportunity and responsibility. You give them infininate excuses to fail. Success does not come from society or government programs or rhetoric, it comes from individual effort and initiative. That initiative that is brought to the country by many generations of immigrants who understand what real poverty is like in less capitalist countries and come here with a sense of possibility. That is why we see greater success among immigrants where there is still stagnation among blacks in many areas. The glorification of the thug culture being promulgated by the Hip Hop industry certainly isn’t helping things either.

Only black America can solve black Americas problem.  When there are fewer opportunistic apologists like Al Sharpton, and there are more men of courage like Dr. Cosby speaking the sometimes unpopular truth, then more progress will be made.  Those who are actually helping are doing so by teaching the black youth that they alone will determine their own success in life and that today they can only limited by a lack of initiative and lack of personal responsibility.

To comments #15090
There is a national program called “Study Circle”, now being used to set up dialogs in schools, communities, police and civic organizations. It works for teacher too.
“A conversation to explore differences opens up the subconcious to higher levels of understanding”..David Bohm..Father of the Dialog, Quantum Physicist, and non-religious Christian model.

It is obvious to any perceptive observer that black slavery was wrong and that its negative effects will transmit for several generations to come. But if it were not for slavery in America, there would not be so many blacks living here-Keith Richberg “Out of Africa”
How the African-American community addresses or does not address, engages or does not engage this issue will define us as a people to this nation and to the world. It will explain if the strident Black voices of social protest heard frequently in the national discourse are the products of a broad moral vision or simply the whimpering of self-interest--whether the gnashing of our teeth over social injustice is just an empty sound emanating from a people whose practice of morality is clearly selective.-Samuel Cotton “THE SLAVERY ISSUE: A CRISIS IN BLACK LEADERSHIP”

Africa, China and India have all suffered from Western Colonialism. Which one suffered the most is debatable. Yet somehow India and China have somehow recovered their heritage and copied the West and improved on certain elemental social constructs for their people. And Africa?

Korea is a predominantly Buddhist, but has strong Evangelical Christian base like Africa. However, when the missionaries came they did not build churches, the Korean society influenced them to build schools, which gave them the best of both worlds.
In Africa they build churches freely without interference from the African society. Just like they do in America, and we now have the world’s best preachers.

In the spirit of the debate on this thread, I wanted to direct readers to a pair of really sharp, searing and insightful talks by Bob Avakian, taking on directly this “personal responsibility” thing, the “two Bills”—Cosby and Clinton—and the role that people like Bill Cosby play.

Go to http://www.bobavakian.net to download mp3s
“Conservatism, Christian Fundamentalism, Liberalism and Paternalism ... Bill Cosby and Bill Clinton ... Not all “Right” But All Wrong!”

In struggle,

Linda

There’s also another talk called

“The NBA: Marketing The Minstrel Show and Serving the Big Gangsters”

“Stop blaming slavery” and “slavery may have been an accident of history?” How is that?  Slavery certainly was a factor in the plight of the ex-slaves immediately post-Civil War, wasn’t it?  And, at least up to the sixties when Civil rights legislation was passed.  Is it possible, then, that in barely two generations slavery ceased to be a factor in the lives of the descendents of African slaves?  Wasn’t it the slaveowner who segregated African women from African men?.  Does it stretch credulity to believe that this might have something to do with the much discussed situation of the African family in America today? 

And the fact that many latinos in our barrios also falter on this same “path to responsibility”, what does this say about the problem?  As a matter of fact the problem exists in the ghettos of Asia, Latin America, Australia, Africa - wherever colonialism has done its dirty work..  That makes it generic, doesn’t it?  Difficult to solve, yes, but will a gathering for the pooling of resources and self-help be enough?  In addition doesn’t there have to be a societal response?  How to get society to accept its responsibility?  Surely not by letting it off the hook.  We the people have to change the world, that’s how, starting here in the good old USA.

“The problem isn’t spiritual, it’s economic.  Under the oppression of capitalism gone wild, young black males in the ghetto have little opportunity to break out of their chains.”

Now we’re getting somewhere. The fraud of capitalism is what needs to be exposed before we can achieve a better understanding on what it means to be black in this country.

Dick Roberts, in an article written over 36 years ago, “The Fraud of Black Capitalism,” pointed out back then that “there is no evidence that the government agencies and private foundations of the American ruling class hope to improve the income level of whole layers of the Black population or anything close to that.  Their aim is quite different.  They hope to buy off a few individuals – and thereby fool the whole population.  This is the essence of capitalist tokenism.  It is imperative that the tactics and strategy of revolutionaries be based on a clear recognition and understanding of this two-faced operation.”

When Andrew Young is a paid defender of Wal-Mart, when Tony Brown tells us that the black underclass is to be left behind, when we can witness Tavis Smiley’s open admiration for Ken Blackwell, or when we have to read clueless cultural psuedo-intellectual, right wing drivel like Joseph C. Phillips’ “He talk like a White Boy,” you know the Uncle Toms are running amok. And getting paid.

It is immoral and wrong to export people in a barrel, but before we try it we should send them to church..

Vermicular Heresey

Churches provide moral fiber for
The corporate world
They proffer sacrifices to the
Syndicates of wealth
Who take what they need not
And under duress they give one-tenth
To those who grovel
Churches have conscience
Which they share
With the Scions of power
Who feast on ambiguity
When Truth runs in circles
Not knowing whom to trust
Nor where the Light begins
And the Darkness ends
For the Soul has left
The Church for the desert
Perhaps in excess of
Forty days.

There is no silver social or religious bullet to solve Black society’s endemic psyco-social confusion and anger.

{Evidently he missed the part of the video with Demitri Kornegay, who defined a black man as “a man who is honest, reliable, as well as self-reliant,’’ and “assumes responsibility not only for his own actions but for the actions of those persons he is responsible for.’’ }

Every one who has a perspctive and solutions is partially right because all those perceptions equate to the conscious response of the blind men to the elephant’s body. The “black man’s” definition can apply to anyone regardless of race or gender. There is no immediate solution to the problem of black men.In any western society not every can make it or will take advantage of available opportunities.

At the Mar 15 2006 conference at Yale(NYT 3/20): “State of Black Men in America” it was correctly recognized and commented on that:
(1)There are more higher educated black(nabab types) women in America than black men. Question: Why is that?
(2)There is a rapidly increasing gap in “Social Development,” between black men and women. Why is that?
There is very little value in castigating blacks who are successful(preachers, politicians, sport figures, hair dressers, hair fixers, wealthy entrepreneurs, etc.) and who have not come forth or COME TOGETHER peacefully to help in whatever way, those of the “black underclass”. And CHURCH is not helping..In Black America there is a dire need for many of us to come together, regardless of religious beliefs; to dialog, plan, pool resources, and sacrifice time and money to help each other, and stop blaming white people, the system, or slavery.
Slavery might have been just an “accident of history”.
And for some strange reason, ideas from Buddhism an Confucianism which are not religons, are silently appearing in western white society and solving age old problems. Jesus knew about these men, perhaps black men can learn something new from them.

Just because some Superfish successfully makes it upstream doesn’t mean that every one is capable of doing it.  Then study the Superfish some will say and apply what’s learned to the others.  But what if the problem turns out to be the stream itself..  It’s too hot, too cold, deficient in certain nutrients, not enough oxygen, etc etc?  What then?  Change the quality of the stream, clean it up, bubble in oxygen or some such?  But that’s too expensive.  Who’ll pay?  So force all the others to make like the Superfish, even though they may not have exactly the same qualities ready to burst forth within themselves.  At least not in a dangerously to one’s health stream that features such pollutants as poverty, racism and violence

And no matter the outcome be sure to blame everything on the individual youth.  He or she just didn’t have what it takes.  What the heck, as long as the rest of us make it upstream. .  .

If you are curious and can imagine it you can do it, and that engenders real Hope. (Bee Gee)

It is encouraging to see and hear that people like Bill Cosby. A well established man of means, education, social awareness, ‘social intelligence supreme’ and compassion who continues to push the social envelope of the black man’s self development motif.
I am a *nabab, NOT African American, who has been concerned more about Self Identity and Self Image than being a Black man. These psycho-social distinctions derived from learning how to stand up to any individual and assert my right to be HERE without FEAR, apology and without ANGER. This means I claim my “social space” wherever I am without anxiety or jealousy. My ancestors’ blood is buried deep below this soil. I have a ton of negative racial experiences, mostly from whites and the rest from black folks who reject me because I do not project “Making It” or from my family who thinks I am white because I participate in anything socially intellectually attractive, not caring if there are blacks involved or if whites resent me. I do not gamble, or take toxic substances or “fix my lovely Kinky Hair that God, Evolution or Chance gave me.”
My model was Booker T., and since then I have added and “absorbed” formally uneducated, Curious Creative, Self educated men with Social courage; like August Wilson and Gordon Parks. But NO Corporate Success models, or Urban Scholarship Ivy League types, Nationally Famous Preachers, Sports Figures or HipHop Successes;
These Internationally outstanding black men of valor KNEW who they were and had Self Identity. Self Identity goes beyond church dogma, race, class and money and they READ useful books. But Formal education is very important: ask Bill Gates.<<baz gray>>

We (as black men) need to collectively ask the question: HOW DID THESE BLACK MEN DO IT WITH AND WITHOUT SLAVERY CONDITIONS.??
I am sure that they had some religious or spiritual sense, but they were not church dogma driven.
Looking at other religions and their history ALSO helped me. As a westerner you must read the Bible and it’s history to understand Western society’s power outlook on race, ethnicity and nationality. You don’t have to believe the Bible to develop Self Identity and good self-image. Jesus, Confucius, Buddha did not have any bible to read, but they had GOOD Social Spiritual self identity and image, love for all Beings, and they were fearless. And one other very important thing that has helped and is still helping me: is my ability to look at my slave roots (like Ben Franklin did for himself by looking at his low class roots) facing it, learning it, and healing the past without abandoning it for church.

If you suffer abuse as a child and never face it in therapy or otherwise, you are stuck with a negative self image like many men-black and white are.
As it is said; “As long as Blacks stay in church, America is safe.”

* Nabab-NativeBornAmericanBlack as distinguished from blacks elsewhere ..most of whom identify with white culture and are “superior to us”..so they think anyway..

Someone mentioned the flake Jakes, well the worse pimps in the black community are nit the one walking the streets but the hustlers in the puplpit.
They hustle their own to believe in a Bible that says one person may buy another and leave that slave as an inheritance to his children.
People overlook that Creationists use the story of Noah and Ham to explain Noah’s curse is how Ham became black and also justified blacks as slaves as Noah’s curse said that Ham & his children ( which were all of the African nations) should serve their brothers.
Paul who did away with the OT didn’t do away with slavery

Lets not over think it…

People learn responsibility from their family, their schools, and their church....

Which one of these insitutions hasn’t been undermined by our political insitutions?

Responsibility for Black Youth

Wow- when responsibility simply meant accountability in the Black community, it applied to everyone. Those were the times when not too many Black people were given the opportunity to obtain a piece of the American “apple pie” so they struggled together to maintain.

A few Blacks, such as Mr. Cosby, were given this deliciously appealing, golden-crusted imitation of a pie and decided to keep it all to themselves.  In the spirit of maintaining, that pie Cosby received would have been cut into slices, and divided among others. At that point, he would have recognized this deliciously appealing, golden-crusted imitation of a pie was full of shit.

I’m still surprised to hear Mr. Cosby speak of “responsibility” considering, during his ‘I Spy’ days he failed to mentioned the word. For that reason, I have two words for Cosby in his attempt to garner the word “responsibility”- Autumn Jackson.

Greed has stripped us of our responsibility/accountability. In the day, there were only a few Black gluttonous figures: Zora Neale Hurston, Booker T. Washington, etc. Today, there is a huge list, ranging from Clarence Thomas, Allen Keyes, to Condoleezza Rice and Charles Barkley, to T.D. (Fakes) Jakes and (Shift yo dollar to me) Creflo Dollar, and the list goes on and on.

These are the people who have yet to bite into the deliciously appealing, golden-crusted imitation of a pie. Therefore, they will continue to use religion, politics, and the backs of those struggling Blacks to fulfill their greed. They are not your kids “role-model” nor are they “responsible” for your kids…until they, personally are faced with the struggle to maintain

Two things right off the bat struck me personally in this article. 1) the right of passage, and 2) a black father figure who is a responsible, caring and giving parent.

These struck me because, though I am lily white, I was raised by my black step-father from the age of 5.  He was my light, my inspiration, my Dad. He is the one who taught me not only of Malcome X, but of NOW (National Organization of Women) and the real insanity of bigotry. He said I could be anything I wanted to be. He never said that being a woman meant I had to limit myself.

Yes I was greatly fortunate to have my step-father, but as wonderful as that was and to the degree that he helped to shape and define my life, the lack of a rite of passage left my life often in an ambiguous state. Many anthropologist have said for decades that the main reason they believe we have such a “Teen” problem is that we lack public and personal rites of passage and the training that comes before them.  17 years ago I gave my daughter a rite of passage when she started her period with her friends and family.  It was wonderful and she still to this day recommends it to every woman.  My niece had one as well 12 years ago and she still feels the same as my daughter.

When my daughter had the right of passage she went from an angry and upset teenager going through a rough puberty to a young girl who better understood what was happening to her and what that meant concerning her future and her abilities. It was dramatic and breathtaking to see. She stood taller and gained a great deal of self esteem.

Some of you have brought up the roll of religion , specifically Christianity, concerning Kornegay’s methods and have focused on that aspect.  Well I have news for you. Though my father and myself have done much the same as Kornegay, including the spiritual aspects of it, we are by no means Christian.  My father was a Tibetan Buddhist and I am Wiccan.  Truths are truths, it is why culture throughout history has so many common threads.  I think Kornegay has touched on one of those truths and I hope it takes hold for all our sakes.

According to Drury, Strauss had a “huge contempt” for secular democracy. Nazism, he believed, was a nihilistic reaction to the irreligious and liberal nature of the Weimar Republic. Among other neoconservatives, Irving Kristol has long argued for a much greater role for religion in the public sphere, even suggesting that the Founding Fathers of the American Republic made a major mistake by insisting on the separation of church and state. And why? Because Strauss viewed religion as absolutely essential in order to impose moral law on the masses who otherwise would be out of control.

At the same time, he stressed that religion was for the masses alone; the rulers need not be bound by it. Indeed, it would be absurd if they were, since the truths proclaimed by religion were “a pious fraud.” As Ronald Bailey, science correspondent for Reason magazine points out, “Neoconservatives are pro-religion even though they themselves may not be believers.”

“Secular society in their view is the worst possible thing,’’ Drury says, because it leads to individualism, liberalism, and relativism, precisely those traits that may promote dissent that in turn could dangerously weaken society’s ability to cope with external threats. Bailey argues that it is this firm belief in the political utility of religion as an “opiate of the masses” that helps explain why secular Jews like Kristol in ‘Commentary’ magazine and other neoconservative journals have allied themselves with the Christian Right and even taken on Darwin’s theory of evolution.

The problem isn’t spiritual, it’s economic.  Under the oppression of capitalism gone wild, young black males in the ghetto have little opportunity to break out of their chains.  The easiest, most irresponsible method is to get a gun and gangbang.  Church sessions like Sunday school don’t address the root problem, which is lack of opportunity in the ghettos to become rich legally.

I am vey intersted in this conversation. I am a teacher and sees the need for this kind of conversation. How ca I bring this discussion to my school?

This is a fascinating parallel to the beginnings of the Sunday School movement (about 125 years or so ago) where churches actually provided school on Sundays to needy children.

If only more churches would take this step.

http://evangelicalperspective.blogspot.com