Bukko, you poor blind misfit! How does anything you said about the economy during the Grant administration apply to today? ALL economic indicators are rising. Unemployment is way down--those who want a job have one. Home ownership is at an all-time high, especially for minorities. Minority business ownership is at an all-time high. The bottom 50% of all wage earners are only being asked to shoulder 4% of the tax burden, and they are receiving the lion’s share of the entitlements. The only dark spot, from an economic standpoint, is the fact that liberal Democrats voted against a minimum wage increase and against a repeal of the death tax. Those liberal votes are destined to crush minorities economically, but clearly liberals don’t give a damn.
Griggsy, you poor illiterate soul. Not only are you unable to string together a coherent, complete sentence, but you are also wrong on the facts. LBJ twisted arms? Which arms were those? His fellow southern Democrats? It didn’t work--they were filibustering. Republicans? How can a Democrat president “twist arms” of Republicans? The simple fact is that the civil rights legislation was dead in the water until Republicans joined with northern Democrats to halt the filibuster. By the way, just what does “LBJ meant business” mean? That’s a pretty vague sentence that really doesn’t mean a whole helluva lot.
You continue to call the rich “welfare queens.” Griggsy, the top 50% of all wage earners pay 96% of the taxes, and they don’t get that money back. Tax rates ACROSS THE BOARD have been lowered, but that doesn’t mean anybody got a refund (except for that first miniscule rebate towards the beginning of the Bush administration).
You absolutely ignored the facts I presented about Clinton which refuted your liberal lies. All you said was that my facts come from the sewer. Well, no they don’t. The facts I presented are easily verified, if you would take the time to do so. Bukko is guilty of this “if I ignore the facts, the facts don’t exist” mentality as well. He didn’t respond to any of the facts I presented about the various Great Sociey programs that have been such a colossal failure. Finally, nobody, with the exception of Gloria, has even attempted to respond to my facts concerning Bush’s fictional vacation. Conservative Truth #17--When liberal liars are confronted with conservative truth, they will yell, scream, demonize the conservative, change the subject, and ignore the conservative facts. I am anxiously awaiting a direct response to any of the facts I have presented.

Bukko, thanks for the interesting information.Neither one was Truman! He was busininess failure also ,but he was highly competent leader, and hisorians admire him as a leader. Even Larry Kudlow,supply-sider, admires his investigation of war contracts as a great example of can-do!All our Democratic candidates for president, are way above W!

Griggsy: Interesting you should mention U.S. Grant. I was watching a documentary about him on Aussie TV in June. (It’s surprising how much there is about American culture on the government-run channels here.) I see a lot of parallels to the Cheney Administration. There was tremendous corruption under Grant, just as there is under Cheney. The level of income disparity grew too, with the robber barons ripping off the populace through their cartels with the railroads and public utilities. The lives of the common people grew much worse, with average folks losing their savings in financial panics, getting thrown out of their houses when their jobs disappeared, and going hungry in the land of plenty.

This TV series portrayed Grant as largely innocent; someone who allowed the friends he served with in the Union Army to steal government money but did not take any himself. This is not the case now. Bush and Cheney were not brave enough to serve in combat like Grant and his cronies, and they HAVE personally profited. Especially Cheney with his payoffs from Halliburton.

Grant also figured in a book by Gore Vidal titled “1876.” I was inspired to buy that (only $3.33 at a used bookseller) by a TV programme about Vidal. It’s all about how Republicans stole the presidential election in 1876 from Samuel Tilden, a Democrat who got more popular votes as Al Gore did in 2000. Vidal wrote this in 1976, but it’s totally eerie how it foretells EXACTLY how the Republicans were to steal the 2000 election. Right down to having a crooked electoral board in Florida (which was still mostly a swamp then) tip the balance through crooked vote-counting. I’m glad I read it now instead of in 2000, or I would have been screaming!

The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq , it should have stated.And others can cite other failures.

My word and sentence fragments are fine.Learn new words and fragments can make points.And your facts come from the sewer!Mine from reputable sources.

LBJ led on the voting rights bill .He twisted arms. He meant business.Yes, those people pay most of the taxes,but those moneys become the property of the whole citizenry and to pay any such large sums back is treating those people as welfare queens.W. spouts right -wing stupidity when he says he wants to give money back- Bukko explained that quite well. Your facts ,as I stated, are wrong as right-wing ones generally are! Grant will rank higher, I dare say! Gephardt is right: this is a miserable failure! Cheney -Bush cannot fight the wars in Afghanistan .They should have waited to start the second, if at all .They loved to raise the deficit.Their Social Security plan is absurd.Their loony right-wing policies are phony.The economy is not as robust as others were after recessions - and they offer the lame rationalizatios- 9/11 etc. as to why. And as Peter Beinart noted in the New Republic , the Republicans are in more disarray than the party of the people. So, right-wingers ,you need help to get over your adversion to prosperity for all! F.Griggs rests in his Socratic ignorance and humble naturalism.  Griggsy

Reply to Hondo,
Yes yes I understand about the President’s vacation. I am not twelve years old. I have have a job. I work. I am am connected all the time as well. The difference is I get three weeks vacation after working at the same place for eighteen years.
Anyway this is a dead horse. you can continue to beat it as long as you like.
I just came home from a dance & life goes on.
Good night.

Griggsy, you poor confused soul! What, pray tell, do you mean when you say that LBJ came through when it counted the most? You don’t give any facts to support that statement, so I am left to conclude that you really don’t know what you’re talking about when making that asinine statement. You say that it is a big lie to say that people who abuse the system are lazy. OK, you tell me. Why do people abuse the system, if it’s not because of laziness? Please griggsy, do educate me. You say that Reagan gave handouts to the rich, and you call them the real welfare queens. The hard cold facts say that the top 1% of all wage earners pay 34% of all the taxes, and the top 50% of all wage earners pay 96% of all taxes. Please enlighten me griggsy! How can a group of people who pay 96% of all taxes be called “welfare queens’? Is that what you mean by “right wing lies’? It’s just the facts! You say that Clinton looks better than ever. Are you talking about the President who sold nuclear secrets to China for campaign contributions? Are you talking about the president who was offered Bin Laden on a silver platter, but refused to take him? Are you speaking of the President who brokered the deal with North Korea that paved the way for them to become the nuclear threat they are today? Are you talking about the president who was so obsessed with getting blowjobs from interns that he forgot to safeguard our national security? Are you talking about the President who had more people vote against him than voted for him in 1992 and 1996? Don’t bring that liberal hooey when debating me, griggsy! I have the facts on my side! You say that Pres. “Grants” looks better than Pres.  Bush today, and you say, “How about all that?” Well, first I would say, who is Grants? Do you mean U.S. Grant? Well, I would say that there is not one single presidential historian who ranks Grant ahead of Bush. Now, if you include people like James Carville and Howard Dean in the category of “presidential historian”, maybe you have a point.
“Now, how about all that”??? Well, griggsy, if you would ever introduce one, single solitary fact to the debate, perhaps I could answer that question. Perhaps if you brought anything to the discussion besides misspelled words, sentence fragments, inappropriate word usage and the like, I could give you a right proper answer. As it stands now, I will await your first fact and your first coherent sentence with great anticipation!

LBJ came through when it counted!What nonsense about people abusing the system ,because they are lazy: that is the Reagan big lie! Reagan ,on the other hand, gave fat hand outs to the super rich , the real welfare queens!One learns to mistrust right wing facts: ‘ Big Lies” as the title says. Clinton looks even better than ever. When the Republicans embarrassed themselves with their silly sexual hunt , his popularity rose. I t is still high and historians declare him a competent president while W. -well Grants looks so much better! Now, how about all that ?

Response to Gloria (and Andy Borowitz)--Pres. Bush is not taking a “vacation”, at least not in the way that you and I would take a vacation. Don’t liberals understand that the powers of the Presidency don’t disappear anytime the Pres. leaves the big white building in D.C.? He can be in the Beltway or he can be on a ranch in Texas or he can be in the Austrailian Outback, it just doesn’t matter. He is still “connected”, he is still in power, and he still is “The Decider.” Funny, isn’t it, how the party of AL GORE, THE INVENTOR OF THE INTERNET, doesn’t understand the concept of staying connected in Crawford, Texas!
Response to Bukko--You are way confused, mate! You believe in the goodness of Mommy and Daddy Government with a religious fervor that is scary! I would defy you to name just one government program that accomplishes what it was created to accomplish at a reasonable cost to the taxpayers. HINT: There isn’t one. You mention Head Start. The cost of that program goes up every year, but academic achievement goes down. What’s wrong with that picture?
The National School Lunch Program? The cost goes up each year, but the nutritional value of lunches goes down. The result is a very expensive government program that promotes childhood obesity. What’s wrong with that picture? How about that great experiment in socialized medicine called Medicare? At it’s current rate Medicare will be bankrupt in 20 years or less. Why? It’s not because of a lack of funding--Medicare funding goes up every year. It’s because too many people who could provide for themselves are glomming on to the “Mommy Government teat.”
All of those “success stories” you touted were really liberal lies, but they pale in comparison to the whopper at the end of your comment. LBJ made it possible for blacks in the South to vote??? YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!!! Check your history, Einstein! Civil rights legislation in the 60’s wouldn’t have been passed unless the GOP had joined with Northern Democrats to defeat the Southern Democrat filibusters. Do you understand that? Southern DEMOCRATS filibustered civil rights legislation, but the Republicans fought against them and the filibusters were defeated. LBJ was a southern Democrat, by the way, but couldn’t seem to convince his fellow racists to change their tune. My, my, my! Isn’t it interesting what facts we can uncover when we sweep away the liberal lies and look at these issues in the cold light of harsh reality!

Bukko, right-wingers sure like to use the term socialism as if that were dirty. They cannot fathom that it isn’t the same everywhere.Anyway, here I call our system Americanism whereby not just the super rich have prosperity but all can live better.Spencer-Randism just does not work to help most people. We lovers of Americanism do value LBJ; the anti-Americanists love the lying mantra of welfare queen of Reagan and the kick yourself of the it is your money of Cheney -Bush.No ,LBJ’s Great Society did not fail ,but supply side has.Clinton reinvigorated, after three times against Republican recalcitrance, welfare . As Joe Conason entitled his book “ Big Lies,” that is what one gets from the right!

Yes, curse that LBJ! He started programmes like Medicare. That horrid example of socialised medicine that lets old people get their health problems fixed AT GOVERNMENT EXPENSE! OK, so doctors get 75% of their income from it. But Medicare has failed so badly that hospitals all over America are filled with old people who are being KEPT ALIVE. What they really should do is go off and die (unless they’re rich.)

If it weren’t for LBJ’s Medicare, those “useless eaters” (phrase borrowed from a fellow named Hitlo who was popular in Germany from 1933 until 1945) wouldn’t be alive to suck up Social Security payments, putting the entire system at risk of bankruptcy. But actually, that’s good, because Social Security is just socialism. It’s even in the NAME! Dead giveaway. So when Social Security goes under, and old people don’t get that money, they can go die. Unless they’re rich. But that’s best for the country. Wouldn’t want any socialism. Death is preferable.

Head Start and school lunches—two other horrible failures! The failure of these programmes was SO POWERFUL that Richard Nixon was unable to eliminate them during two terms in office. Why can’t those poor children just be hungry and stupid, so they will drop out of school, join criminal gangs and hopefully GO DIE?!? Why do those damnable Democrats try to keep people alive? The answer is to let everyone DIE (unless they’re rich.)

And don’t even get me started on how LBJ made it possible for black people to vote in the South. Thankfully there are Diebold electronic voting machines so that’s not a problem any more. It’s the Republican solution. Even in the name: DIEbold. Dead giveaway…

I have put forth a solution here in reccommending no taxes except Land Value Taxes. Search “Henry George” if you are interested. It’s really different from right or left.
This forum was about the bush vacation. Guess what? He is only taking ten days. A nice, long vacation during the mess this country has become under his watch is not good PR. He really wants one of his buddies to get elected next election. Better stop talking & start voting.

Bukko talks about the benefits of higher taxation for social benefit. He must not remember what a dismal failure LBJ’s Great Society was, and how horribly it affected our country right through the Carter Administration. Tax rates skyrocketed, hundreds of new social entitlement programs created (not one of which succeeded), inflation and unemployment rose, national morale plummeted. It took a conservative Republican to rescue us in 1980. Check your facts!

Griggsy: My wife and I are going to be Down Under until fascism is gone from America. Therefore, I expect to be buried here…

Bukko , so right. When minimum wages go up,so do other wages. So,government can help us by marginal interference in the economy . How long are you going to be there,Bukko? I wish I could use such tram service! Yes , Bush talks about our money ,but as you state, he wants to do so by depriving us of real benefits.  There has been no government take over of business and there is minimum regulation - no wall to wall socialism or fascism.

Griggsy: You’re welcome. Sometimes a person says things more sensibly with occasional spelling errors than does a person with perfect form but mal-formed thinking. If you know what I mean. And I think you do…

I also agree with you about the virtues of higher taxation for social benefits. Australia is a higher-tax nation than the U.S. It’s on par with Europe. I have close to 40% of my paycheck taken off the top, and there’s a 10% GST (good and services tax) built into the purchase price of everything except food and medicine. So I’m giving about half my money to the government. And I don’t mind.

Why? Because society gets so much for the taxes that people pay. I work in a public hospital where any citizen can get treatment essentially for free. (But not me! I’m here on a work visa, and one of the conditions of entry was that I had to buy private health insurance.) I ride to work on a public tram system that only covers 1/3 of its costs from ticket sales. The rest is subsidised by taxes paid by people who don’t even ride the trams. As a result, traffic flows smoother in town, pollution is less, and the city will continue to function during the coming oil supply crisis caused by President Cheney’s Mideast conflagration.

There are many other ways that society works better here than in the U.S. due to high taxation and wise stewardship by government authorities. Just like in Europe. Compare that to how things are in low-taxation nations like sub-Saharan Africa. Taxes are low there because the government is so shambolic that they just don’t get collected. And as a result of low taxes, there’s almost no health care, paved roads, public education, etc. I love the high taxes!

Bukko, thanks for the kind comments .It takes me quite awhile to proof-read as my fingers try to mispell. I find no illiteracy in my comments.Maybe I am to formal for some. I use words I see in regular sources . That character sure wants to demean herself!

I’m sure that it makes liberals feel better to “psychoanalyze” the competition, but, as usual, you come to the wrong conclusions. I think that a lesson on the differences between liberals and conservatives is in order.
First, conservatives don’t believe in “forced pregnancies”, despite the illiterate, almost unreadable rantings from griggsy. I am a conservative with 3 kids, so I am something of an axpert on the subject. Someone please explain to griggsy how pregnancies occur. I just had this conversation with my 7 year old, and, believe me, the words “conservative Republicans” never came up. Having said that, I should point out that liberals believe that all taxpayers, regardless of their religious/personal beliefs, should have part of their paychecks confiscated by the government to pay for abortions for those who couldn’t keep their legs together. Liberals are the ones who “force”, not conservatives.
Liberals say that homosexuals have a fundamental right to marry. I will give $1 million to the first person who can tell me what part of the Constitution says that. If you fail that, I will still award the money to the first person who is able to identify any signer of the Constitution who believed that gay marriage is a fundamental right. Be able to provide proof from the man’s writings. I’ll give you a hint--you won’t be able find any of the above. Liberals don’t care about that pesky old Constitution anyway. They just want to force (there’s that word again, and associated with liberals again) their secular progressive agenda on the majority. By the way, conservatives don’t want homosexuals to stay in the closet. That is another liberal lie. We want gays to enjoy all of the blessings of liberty that we have in this country, the same as anyone else. Just don’t force the majority to accept into law behavior we find objectional.
Both griggsy and Bukko talk about conservatives being crazy. Do they ignore people like RFK, Jr., who believes that Pres. Bush “caused” hurricanes to happen? Do they ignore people like Howard Dean, whose very public displays of insanity caused his presidential campaign to implode? Do they ignore people like Al “Broken Thermometer” Gore? Here’s a guy who believes that he invented the Internet. He believes that making a not very believable sci-fi movie makes him a movie mogul. He believes that it is possible to accurately predict what the weather will be like world wide for the next 20 years, when we all know how hard it is for the local TV weather guys and gals to put together an accurate 5-day forecast. Devotees of The Church of Global Warming are the very picture of insanity!
It’s kind of amusing to me to be called crazy by such an array of loonie-toons. All I can say is, Wow! Welcome to the cuckoo’s nest!

Thanks Bukko. In the current issue of Free Inquiry, born agains like that person are more likely to have divorces than the rest of us and no more moral.Sweden, a largely non-religious nation ,is more socially advanced -less crime etc. Denmark, according to some survey is the happiest nation.They do pay high taxes.No causation perhaps. With the growth of the federal government , the states have also grown and so has liberty. Social conservatives do not care much for liberty. They want forced pregnancies and forced school prayers. They want homosexuals to stay in the closet and not have fundamental right to marriage or civil unions. I favor negative rights for the other apes ; Peter Singer and Spain’s socialist government advocates that. Our cousins deserve protection. Yes , the enforced pregnancy people will find it abhorrent that I favor rights for the other apes and approve of choice! But a being without ever having consciousnes is not the same as one with consciousness . Those in comas had consciousness and might return to consciousness, so they are not the same as those unborn.And I say creationism is cretinism . And libertarian conservatives are for anarchic capitalism when they talk of liberty , not so much for civil rights. One should replace the loaded question of are we paying too high taxes wit h the sensible one of what is the appropriate tax in each category?Many Americans are willing to pay higher taxes in order for others to get health insurance.Roads and armies and education cost -no free lunch. And our fellow people are our concern! I just had to unload!

Some things to remember about right-wing insulters, Griggsy. Much of what they hurl at others is “PROJECTION.” The very qualities they hate the most in themselves are what they accuse others of. They fear these inner demons, so they think that’s the worst thing they can use against their opponents. That’s why O’Reilly, who wrote a smutty, drug-filled novel and sexually harrassed his aide, was so down on Bill Clinton. He projected his bad side onto Bill. So when you’re criticised by a rightist, look on it as a smudged window into the dark part of their soul.

And Coulter… I worked a lot of psych nursing in the U.S. and I have seen women like her in crisis stabilization units. (Using U.S. spelling there because that’s where it was.) These are angry, angry ladies. Frequently it’s because of cocaine or methamphetamine abuse. Too much speed alters your brain’s dopamine receptor system and makes you surly. I can’t say that’s what’s with Coulter, although it would go with her anorexic look. People can also become that way through personality disorders with no substance abuse, or during the manic phase of bipolar disorder.

Whatever the cause, their personal lives spiral out of control. They are quarrelsome in their everyday interactions, yelling at people, throwing things, stomping out of interviews… Even media identities such as Coulter need to have doormen, drivers, makeup artists, etc. They burn so many bridges that eventually no one wants to be around them. They end up shreiking and all alone.

Look at what’s happened with the campaign staff of Katherine Harris, the witch who organised the vote-stealing that put Bush into office the first time. She’s SO impossible to be around that she’s on her third set of advisers, and will lose the Florida Senate race to Bill Nelson. Even the Republicans in Florida hate her so much that they’re not going to let her cheat her way to a win.

I tend to pity small misguided people like Hondo. They have no power, so they do no harm to anyone but themselves. I despise people like Coulter and Harris, because they use their power for wicked ends. It must be hell to BE them, though, even with all their money. Their lives are full of hostile anguish and vengeful frustration.

Bukko, has someone attacked my writing ? Fr. Griggs in his Socratic ignorance and humble naturalism ,laughs . I do have to really proof-read as my fingers want to write in reverse order and what not. Anyway, while those who need health insurance cannot generally get it and the rise of poverty is true, the president vetoes a good bill in the name of morality. The right is for diminishing the rights of homosexuals and for keeping nuts from burning private flags while we want to ensure the common welfare .I am nulti-literate in eleven languages. Die recht-extremisten sind narren. La derecha es contra el pueblo . Je deteste les extremistes de la droite et de la guache. Jeg elsker Clintons. And these right-wing and left-wing exstemists would make fools of themseleves in any language.

Bukko! My Man! FINALLY--SOMETHING THAT YOU AND I AGREE ON! I have noticed from the very beginning how illiterate most of the people posting on this site are. Griggsy is one of the worst. I can’t believe how poorly all of these supposedly intelligent liberals communicate via the written word. It’s really quite shameful. All I keep hearing is that liberals are such geniuses, then I read all of these comments that are absolutely lousy with spelling errors, grammatical and puncuation mistakes, poor word usage, etc., and I realize that everything I have thought about uneducated liberals is true.

Bukko,that is right.They think that his sex life means some thing more than faulty personal judgment,when W. veotes a good bill that shows faulty one for the nation. Fortunately, some states are on the right track .Look at that clown Coulter- she , perhaps ,a p romiscuous person, calls Clinton and Gore both homsexuals ,according ot Media Watch. Maybe she is Phyllis Schafly and Bill O’Reilly’s love child along with Sean Hannity !I cannot prove that ,but evidently I do not have to ,according to her standards. And Hondo’s. We liberals do not have to take the back seat! I expect the right-wing loons to respond with more nonsense. They just cannot help that neurosis! I am so tactful.And thanks to you and the other non-right wing loons.

Heya Griggsy. I’ll say one thing for Hondo—he doesn’t make the same spelling and grammatical errors that most rightists make. Usually there’s a directly proportional relationship between a person’s ignorance about facts and their ability to communicate properly in written words. Hondo shows evidence of a proper high school education. Too bad that’s where he stopped learning. Just like George Bush.

And do you notice when right-wingers bring up Bill Clinton’s sex life, they just luuuuv to toss in details from their fervid little minds? “Monica had big lips...” Clinton EXCITES them! They get hot thinking about him, in the sexual and tempramental senses of the word. That’s why they hate him with such passion. Clinton represents the wild passion they wish they had in their lives; the lust, the sweaty grunting pleasure that they just CAN’T achieve. They can’t do it because they’re too fat or impotent or hung-up. So they HATE Clinton because he’s got what they’re not. Quite pathetic in a deeply Freudian way.

Mad as Hell, right on! These loons just love to show their lunacy! How they only see what they want to see. Clinton tried to dampen attacks alright. Everybody see ‘BIG LIES.” In “THE NATURAL” and “The Survivor “, one reads of a far superior president to the loon we now have.

Hondo,
Not only do you persist in lying, and deceptions, but you can’t count.

Under President Clinton there were 3 terrorist attacks WITHIN the US.  However, two of these were by home-grown right-wingnuts like yourself: Oklahoma City and the Atlanta Olympics.  The third was the first attack on the WTC in 1993.

The others, overseas, were responded to by a measured counter attack.  However, the REAL work was in putting a renewed and greater effort on gathering intelligence, and effort that was immediately and completely shit-canned on Jan 20, 2001.

You, Hondo, are truly delusionary--and a provable hypocrite.  Only 1 terrorist attack on US targets including 9/11?  I’ll bet the families of the 2600 dead Americans in Iraq would disagree with you.  You see, all those IEDs in Iraq that are used against our brave young men and women are either terrorists....or not. 

If they are not terrorist attacks, then clearly we are NOT fighting terrorism in Iraq--and your whole argument about Iraq is a lie. 

If we are, then your argument that there haven’t been any terrorist attacks on American targets is a lie.

They both cannot be true. Either way, Hondo, you are a lying hypocrite. 

It’s typical of right-wingnuts to try to make it seem that the attack on the World Trade Center didn’t happen in the heart of the Blue State Liberal NorthEast.  Get over it.  That’s where it was--New York City, in the State of New York, just 2 miles away from New Jersey, and about 20 from Connecticut.  The heart of Blue State Liberalism.

So stop this delusion that North Eastern Liberals don’t understand terrorism and are afraid to fight it.  It’s another of your lies.  Everywhere I turn, I know somebody who lost a friend or a loved one in the twin towers.  To us, the attack on the World Trade Center is more real than it is to ANYONE else in the world.

What are you doing in OUR house anyway?  Why don’t you go join up with your fellows on Nazi-Anne’s website.  There you’ll get all the comfort of having your delusions reinforced.

Bukko, we must remember the right -wing loons read at a second grade level and their mental state is strained to fathom the truth with a small t.[Fundies have truth with a capital T, meaning their poor grasp of reality.]

To Mad As Hell--As is typical with the modern left, you resort to intentional deceit (some would call that lying) in an adolescent attempt to make a point. Let me ‘splain some things to you.
1. There were 8 terrorist attacks against U.S. targets, both here and abroad, during the Clinton administration. How did Clinton respond? By getting blow jobs from Monica. I hope that made him feel better (I’m sure it did, she had some big lips!) while Americans were dying. During the Bush administration, we have had 1 terrorist attack against a U.S. target. Nothing since 9/11. Do the math, ye mental midgets of the left. The answer to this story problem is, “Yes--we are safer today with Bush as president.”
2. Despite you typical liberal tendency to be completely self-absorbed, it wasn’t just northeastern liberals who died in 9/11. The victims of 9/11 came from every corner and every region of this great nation. You have just engaged in the very typical liberal strategy of attempting to stifle debate on an issue by claiming that I don’t have the right to question your “moral authority.” Good try, it won’t work.
I’ll leave you to stew in those juices for awhile. Rest assured, however, that each and every time one of you wacky liberals says something stupid, I will point out the errors of your ways. Bye, bye!

Mad as Hell is so right.W’S brain is on vacation! No one is asking Israel to commit suicide ,but to avoid more civilian deaths and more infrastructure damage that hurts civilians.I realize that is hard to do .But I am with Blair on this.I side with the Israelis , the Lebanese and the Palestinians . They, along with the Jordanians ,should have a common ,not commnon misery.Fr.Griggs is so sad..

George Will put it:
40% of the voters will vote Republican no matter what.  40% of the voters will vote Democratic no matter what.  The battle is for the at 20% in the middle.

Now, the latest NBC/Wall Street Journal poll says only 27% of Americans think the country is headed in the right direction.

According to Hondo, the other 73% of us are traitors.  Guess what, bozo?  A super-majority can’t be traitors to the country--we ARE the country!  Just 12% think our problems are short-term blips--that puts them on the fringe.

Just 34% approve of Mad King George’s handling of Iraq.  So even the yeller dawg Republicans (Will’s 40%) are peeling off from this ineffective, incompetent moron.

Even The Father of Modern Conservatism said recently that George Bush should have resigned.  When then asked what Mad King George’s legacy would be, William F. Buckley (yup, himself) replied: “Bush has no legacy.” Buckley said it coldly and factually.

So where does that leave Hondo? Arguing angrily over the deck chairs on the Titanic.

If Mad King George was SO good at fighting terrorism, why did Osama Bin Laden do EXACTLY what was necessary, at the critical moment, to get George “re-elected”?  Simple: OBL is evil but he is neither stupid nor short-sighted--and he knows Mad King George is both.  MKG is the BEST recruiter OBL has--ineffective but GREAT at getting more and more young fools to join OBL.

No, Al Qaeda hasn’t attacked us at home since 9/11.  But remember: there was over 8 years between the first WTC bombing and the second, and we are only 5 years past the first.

Pop quiz for morons like Hondo: WHO were the victims of 9/11?
a) Good wholesome middle Americans who would never go near the Sodom and Gomorrah of the North East?
b) Texans, Wyomingans, Montanas and Utahan?
c) Corrupt New York, New Jersey and Connecticut, blue state voting dirty liberals who never ever want to be tough on terrorists?

Trick Question!  NONE OF THE ABOVE!  We who live in New York, New Jersey and Connecticut were the VICTIMS of 9/11, not bozos like Hondo safe in some Southern or Mid-western state.  WE lost our friends, our loved ones, our brethren.  IT WAS WE NORTHERN BLUE STATE LIBERALS WHO DIED IN THE ATTACKS. IT WAS OUR HOMES THAT WERE THREATENED!  WE KNOW TERRORISM! WE KNOW WHAT IT MEANS LIKE YOU NEVER WILL!

And we know damn well Mad KingGeorge is doing NOTHING to stop it, and everthing to encourage so he has an excuse to continue his power grab to be the first king of America since the LAST Mad King George.

We are no safer from terrorism. But we ARE in more danger of losing our freedom, every day.

American Mom-- We went to Iraq and Afghanistan to defeat Islamofacism. Money had nothing to do with it.
God bless your son. I truly and sincerely appreciate the sacrifice he voluntarily made to fight for the cause of freedom. I will pray for him, and for you, and for all mothers with sons and daughters at war.

If he doesn’t do anything I think we are better off than he tried to show up as a President. Just sit in the Whitehouse then sip “booze” or learn more how to read, how to think, how to speak, and mostly how to be a “man” like us.

I bet all of us could afford to take a vacation if there was equality through land value taxes & no other taxes; income, sales, personal property, etc. Before you naysay envision what you might have left for yourself if buildings & other improvements were not taxable. You might not have to put the McMansion on the market everytime heating costs bump up. (Land Value Taxes will not bring peace in the ME, stop global warming, nor give you fellow citizens that have the same morals & values as you think you have. I know I think I have mine as well. Don’t we all?)

Like those who voted for the war in Iraq, I thought we had a good pretext for one . I did not realize Cheney-Bush had cooked the books and had different information from the congressmen . And this maladministration has made a havoc of things in Iraq and the Iraqi administration is not ready to act as it ought.It looks like we will have troops there for years to finish our bungled attempts as Ricks maintains . [So I am a “mugwump.!” Fr. Griggs is just hopes for the best.]

I think Bush needs to go on vacation--maybe get away for a few days from his handlers and reflect about his special veto of the stem cell legislation.  Maybe he’ll realize how silly he is going to seem later being known as the “flushing president.” The guy who would rather bear the label of the flusher has got to sense something is really, really bizarro with those who are running his show.

TO:  Comment #14997 by Hondo

Do YOU know WHY we went into Afghanistan?

Do YOU know WHY we went into IRAQ?

Why do YOU go to work everyday?

Are YOU motivated by $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$?

Do YOU have any form of economic education?

Sincerely
Mother of US Special Forces Soldier
d-green
green
rangers
seals

BUSH nightmare 109 .....

Better check in with China as they now OWN a 10000000000000 reserve currency in US DOLLARS.......tick tick tick...... GOOD JOB (not) BUSH!
-----------------------------------------------

Molly Hennessy-Fiske
Los Angeles Times
Jul. 24, 2006 10:33 AM

WASHINGTON - The U.S. economy has been steadily growing, with unemployment low and corporate profits at historic highs.

So, why can’t David Lewis get a decent raise?

Lewis worked his way up through technology companies around San Jose, Calif., finally landing a $77,000-a-year Web design position. But in five years in that job, he received only a single 5 percent pay increase. advertisement

That was troubling for someone facing the rising costs of rent, food, gasoline, and raising a newborn daughter. But Lewis, 36, found it especially troubling because he had done what has traditionally helped Americans share in a growing economy: He had earned a four-year college degree.

Wage stagnation, long the bane of blue-collar workers, is now hitting people with bachelor’s degrees for the first time in 30 years. Earnings for workers with four-year degrees fell 5.2 percent between 2000 and 2004 when adjusted for inflation, according to White House economists.

It is a setback for these workers, and it may explain why surveys show that many Americans think President Bush has not been a good manager of the economy.

Not since the 1970s have workers with bachelor’s degrees seen a prolonged slump in wages. These workers did well during the last period of growth, with average wages rising 12 percent from 1995 to 2000, according to an analysis by the Economic Policy Institute.

For Lewis, the decline in buying power prompted a radical decision: Last year, he moved his family from San Jose to Gardnerville, Nev., where the cost of living is lower.

“Nothing else was going down except wages,” said Lewis, who graduated from California State University, Long Beach, in 1994 with a degree in fine arts. Now, he is starting his own Web design business while his wife, Kimberly, works for the county.

Although earning a bachelor’s degree is still worth hundreds of thousands of dollars in lifetime earnings, on average, the recent wage slump has affected a substantial part of the workforce. About 30 million Americans ages 20 to 59 have a four-year degree and no advanced degree, according to the National Center for Education Statistics.

White House economists did not lay out wage trends for people with master’s and other advanced degrees. But other studies have found that wages for those workers were flat between 2000 and 2004, when adjusted for inflation, while confirming the decline for people with undergraduate degrees.

When wages for people with bachelor’s degrees declined in the 1970s, the cause was a flood of baby boomers entering the job market. This time, economists say, much of the blame goes to trends familiar to workers with less education.

Off-shoring, which has shifted manufacturing and call-center jobs to Mexico and India, is increasingly affecting the white-collar sectors of engineering and software design. Companies have continued their long effort to replace salaried positions with low-paid, nonsalaried jobs, including part-time and freelance positions without benefits.

Those positions make up nearly half of the 6.5 million jobs created since 2001, said Paul Harrington, a labor economist at Northeastern University in Boston.

Harrington looked at the growth of salaried jobs during the past five economic recoveries and found that they increased an average of 11.5 percent, compared with 2.5 percent during the current recovery.

“There’s clear deterioration in the college labor market,” he said. “The American economy just does not generate jobs the way it has historically.”

Alan Guarino, chief executive of Cornell International, an international staffing firm, sees a similar change in his own work as an employment recruiter. About 15 percent of workers with four-year college degrees are working at “gray collar” jobs below their skill level, such as in retail, because they cannot find better-paying jobs. Before 2001, the figure was about 10 percent.

“A very significant percentage of the jobs we are creating are contingent jobs,” not salaried positions, said Guarino. Jonathan Hess, 25, took a low-paying job—and then found himself falling further behind.

A graduate of the University of California, Santa Cruz, Hess has been working as a clerk at a Borders Bookstore in San Francisco. Until earlier this month, he was earning $1,300 a month, living paycheck to paycheck. Then, the bookstore manager reduced the staff’s hours and forced workers to take vacation time early to avoid unpaid leave.

“It’s a good corporation, but the wages are barely livable,” Hess said of Borders. “Anybody who’s using it as their sole means of surviving—it’s tough.”

J. Tony Smith won a $5,000 raise at his Web designer job with a San Francisco art school, which boosted his salary to $55,000. But that was the only raise he has received in almost three years.

After inflation, that raise is now worth less than $1,000 a year. Smith feels like he has stalled, especially since he was making $80,000 at a previous job.

“It’s not a healthy economy, and folks do struggle paycheck to paycheck,” said Smith, 38, who graduated in 1990 from UC Santa Cruz with a degree in literature and theater. He worries about providing for his 11-year-old son and 7-year-old daughter.

Smith’s sour opinion of the economy might seem unusual, given that gross domestic product has averaged a solid 3.8 percent growth in the past three years, including a 5.6 percent spurt in the first quarter of 2006. Unemployment remains at a low 4.6 percent. But Smith is far from the only person to take a dim view amid the upbeat statistics.

In an Associated Press-Ipsos poll released in July, 60 percent of respondents said they disapproved of how Bush was handling the economy.

“The administration is saying the only reason people are not sharing in the recovery is they don’t have the right skills,” said Lawrence Mishel, president of the Economic Policy Institute. But if college graduates are not doing well, Mishel said, “what does that say?”

Bush’s advisers say graduates are earning less because their ranks are swelling, and they face tougher competition for better-paying jobs. But they see good news in the fact that productivity is increasing and that, eventually, wages will follow as they have in the past.

“Whether or not new college graduates are making more than they were five years ago, we do know the same people will be making more five years from now,” said White House spokesman Ken Lisaius.Not all college graduates are faring poorly. Starting pay is up for business administration, marketing and accounting majors, but down for humanities majors, according to the National Association of Colleges and Employers. Compared with 2005, starting salaries for accounting majors rose 5.5 percent this year, while those for English majors declined 4.1 percent.

However, some experts say wage stagnation could become a permanent fixture for the bulk of four-year degree-holders.

Harvard University economist Richard Freeman, in his 1976 book “The Overeducated American,” detailed the previous erosion of graduates’ wages. Today, he believes that college-educated workers will continue to see their wages erode, due to the global labor market. Moreover, the pressure will intensify as China, India and other off-shoring hubs develop their own glut of graduates.

China alone expects the number of college graduates to increase by 22 percent this year, with 4.13 million job candidates entering a domestic market with only 1.66 million jobs available, according to a Chinese government report released in May.

Still, a college education can be a ticket to higher-paying jobs. College graduates earned an average $51,206 last year, while high school graduates earned $27,915, according to Census Bureau figures. Those with no high school diploma earned $18,734.

Bukko--You have said some pretty ignorant stuff in the past, but this post absolutely beats them all. Are there any limits at all to the ignorance of a liberal?
Just for laughs, let’s say that you got your wish, and everything you called for actually happened. What would be the results?
1. The democratic government presently existing in Iraq would be overthrown, civil war would ensue, and Islamofacism would gain control, leaving Iraq even more dangerous to the world than they were before.
2. Israel would be destroyed, as Islamofacism would produce a Holocaust that would make the Nazis look like Sunday School teachers.
3. The Islamofacist terrorist organizations around the world, emboldened by the cowardice of the actions you call for, would accelerate their plans to destroy the West and kill all non-Muslims. The U.S. would experience 9/11 type attacks nationwide, and our entire way of life would cease to exist.
Do any of you ever wonder why liberal Democrats can’t win big elections? When the Republicans retain control of the House and the Senate next November, and when a conservative Republican wins the presidency in 2008, will you be shocked? I won’t. The benighted, dangerous ideas that are so deeply held by liberal ignoramuses like Bukko make your political candidates largely unelectable.

How about we all pitch in for a new more revolutionary chainsaw for Bushy while he’s on vacation?

You know, one with more horse-power, easy starter, longer blade, sharper chain that slices through those tree trunks like butter...get where I’m going?

You lefty libs, just want to tare down this president and the whole nation along with him. You seem to forget that he has kept this country safe from terrorists by taking out Saddam, President Bush deserves his vacation and you should show your respect to him. Instead, you wine about global warming (Gore’s insane myth) and stem cells (a myth of insane immoral mad scientists)and try to ban prayer in schools and teach evolution as if it was a fact.

Brendemuehl says:

“Why don’t you Libs and Lefties put forth a SOLUTION!  (Something other than asking Israel to commit national suicide, that is.)”

When Germany renounced its bullying, ethnic chauvinist, expansionist, militarist ideology, was that a “national suicide” — or was it a chance to be reborn as a better country?

Just for a laugh, I’ll post the comment I left for the evangelical guy:

This leftie lib has a solution: I want President Cheney, Commander-in-Chimp Bush, the entire war cabinet, every Repug in Congress and five Supreme Court justices (must I name whom?) to resign immediately. Democrats can replace them. Then we immediately pull all U.S. troops out of Iraq as fast as they can drive away. Next, we give the Iraqi government cash payments of $1 billion a week in war reparations. (That’s $500 million a week less than we’re spending there now.)

Then we stop sending extra shipments of bombs to Israel. They’re just dropping them on Lebanon anyway. We tell Israel we we’ll deduct whatever they shoot outside their own borders from any future weapons shipments. Then we stop being the world’s biggest arms supplier in all those other areas. Maybe Jesus would like that, if we stopped supplying instruments of death…

But wait! That wouldn’t be any good, for evangelicals would it? You people NEED lots and lots of killing. Hatred war, deaths of millions of people, especially in the Middle East. It’s an evangelical’s wet dream—you can cause the Battle of Armageddon and bring Jesus back to Earth! Yes, you are so powerful that you can CONTROL JESUS! Just kill and kill and kill. Yeah, that’ll do it…

Collin,
One solution might be for the US to treat other countries in a more equal and fair way. Like perhaps not just giving blanket support for Israel when they clearly step over the line by slaughtering innocent civilians of a neigboring country because a terrorist group is using that country as a haven. I mean honestly, if someone shot at you out of a crowd of people would you be justified in opening fire on the entire crowd? Sure you could make the arguement that you don’t know who is the bad guy or how many there are. I guess the “only way to be sure is to nuke them from orbit” (Aliens)…

Mr. Borowitz,

While this is mildly amusing as an exercise in irony, Junior’s gleeful fiddling while the Middle East burns has passed the funny stage when the body count topped 100.

Now it’s just plain scary.

And for the so-called evangelical, I just wonder where in the Bible does it say that thou shalt stand by and do nothing while suffering escalates.

Just curious.

Has Bush put forth a SOLUTION? Or a plan? I must have missed something.

Great post.  Maybe a vacations a good thing for the President.  Perhaps he takes the time to think, something he doesn’t seem to have much time to do when he’s not on vacation.

Andrew Pass
http://www.Pass-Ed.com/blogger.html

Why exclude national suicide by Israel?

Israel is an outlaw state created by the US and Britan after WW II, it should be disbanded it’s criminal leadership jailed and a free and independent Palestine should take it’s place.

Don’t forget Cindy Sheehan should be down in Crawford too in August, so y’all come down....no wonder worm Bush may cut his vacation short....plus he has to spread the word of WW II and phony terrorist plots to help the Republicans win in November since they have nothing else to run on

This at last is the answer to all woes. Bush on vacation where he can do no harm. Perhaps we could all chip in and pay for a permanent vacation for George of the burning Bush. After all if Bush cannot take care of his bushes all may be lost. Consider a brush fire which is a real possibility in the dry summer season. It could start on Bush’s ranch then quickly burn out of control putting bushes of all types and walks of life in mortal jeopardy.

But I digest.

Let us return to the concept of Bush on vacation which fills me with a new and wondrous hope for the future. Let us write letters to Bush asking him to extend his vacation possibly for a few more years along with his entire administration and congress too! There they can pursue harmless pastimes like hunting for quail on Bush’s bush over-run ranch just gives those boys and girls a few beers hand ‘em a loaded shotgun and point them into the setting sun and that includes Dick Cheney who has much experience with this sort of thing.

Perhaps we could make one of those realistic new western movies out of the hunt we could call it “The Deregulators” or some such title. We could begin the movie with one of those slow motion shots of people walking drunk with their shotguns which somehow gives the simple act of walking a sort of poetic motion very, very impressive. I have always wanted to try that with a bunch of chimpanzees dressed up like cowboys to see if we can impart some of that same poetic motion upon them. Come to think of it I am just repeating myself.

I picture an ad campaign for our new movie that goes something like this “Many embarked on a dangerous journey into the unknown Bush country but only a few returned.” Probably a few too many.

Ok, something simple here:  Why don’t you Libs and Lefties put forth a SOLUTION!  (Something other than asking Israel to commit national suicide, that is.)

http://www.evangelicalperspective.blogspot.com

How do I hate thee? Let me count the ways.
I hate thee to the depth and breadth and height
My soul can reach, when feeling out of sight
For the ends of Being and ideal Grace.
I hate thee to the level of everyday’s
Most quiet need, by sun and candle-light.
I hate thee freely, as men strive for Right;
I hate thee purely, as they turn from Praise.
I hate thee with a passion put to use
In my old griefs, and with my childhood’s faith.
I hate thee with a hatred I seemed to lose
With my lost saints… ---
I hate thee with the breath,
Smiles, tears, of all my life!  ---
and, if my spirit chooses,
I shall but hate thee more after death.