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Robert Scheer: What Bush’s Open Mike Revealed

Posted on Jul 18, 2006

By Robert Scheer

Editor’s note: In the midst of a Middle Eastern crisis that threatens to destabilize the entire region and perhaps beyond, it was unnerving that what most seemed to interest President Bush at the G8 summit is that China is a long flight from western Russia.

Bombs were exploding and innocents dying, from Beirut to Haifa to Baghdad, and yet George Bush managed to pose for yet another photo op, smiling as he gave the thumbs up at the close of the G8 summit. Thanks to an unsuspected open mike, however, we could also glimpse the mind-set of a leader unaccountably pleased with his ignorance of the world.

What seemed to interest him most at that farewell get-together of leaders bitterly divided over a disintegrating Mideast was not some last-minute proposal for peace but rather the fact that it would take China President Hu Jintao eight hours to fly home from St. Petersburg to Beijing.

Bush had started the exchange by noting, absurdly, that, “This is your neighborhood, doesn’t take you long to get home.” Uh, yeah, incurious George, sure thing. Never mind that St. Petersburg is in Europe, on Russia’s northwestern corner, due north of Turkey, and Beijing is on the eastern edge of mainland Asia.


Square, Site wide

“You, eight hours? Me too. Russia’s a big country and you’re a big country,” he said when corrected, sounding for all the world like an earnest kindergartner, processing new information. “Russia’s big and so is China.”

Unfortunately, Bush’s private remarks to British Prime Minister Tony Blair several minutes later also revealed a cluelessness about more important matters: Israel’s bloody assault on Lebanon, its causes and possible solutions.

“See, the irony is what they need to do is get Syria to get Hezbollah to stop doing this shit, and it’s over,” he said, apparently referring to the guerrilla force’s firing of rockets into Israel. “I felt like telling Kofi to get on the phone with [Syrian leader Bashir] Assad and make something happen.”

While it is refreshing to note that our president employs language that would earn a radio shock jock a fine from his own rabid obscenity-sniffers at the FCC, his profound ignorance is appalling. Israel, Hamas and Hezbollah all have their own hard-core agendas—Syria is just one player in the tortured region. Furthermore, Bush’s complete disinterest in the Mideast peace process—especially as an “honest broker” between Israel and the Palestinians—since the Supreme Court handed him the job in 2000 has paved the way for this moment.

But should we be surprised at Bush’s poor grasp of the world he supposedly leads? After all, the blundering of the Bush administration has seriously undermined secular politics in the Mideast and boosted the religious zealots of groups like Hezbollah to positions of preeminence throughout the region, from savagely violent Iraq to the beleaguered West Bank and Gaza.

But what is truly “ironic” is that the Bush administration, having overstretched our militarily and generated no foreign policy ideas beyond the willy-nilly “projection” of military force, has become a helpless bystander as the entire region threatens to burn.

Responding to Bush, Blair at least sounded somewhat constructive, offering to go directly to the Mideast and pave the way for a visit by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. In this, he seemed to be unwittingly aligned with former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, who expressed on Sunday frustration with her successor for not leaving the conference to engage in emergency shuttle diplomacy in the Mideast.

Where Albright was critical of the “disaster” in Iraq for distracting from the dormant Mideast peace process,  Rice was shrilly defensive.

“For the last 60 years, American administrations of both stripes—Democrat, Republican—traded what they thought was security and stability and turned a blind eye to the absence of democratic forces, to the absence of pluralism in the region,” she said Sunday. “That policy has changed.”

While this is certainly a dramatic sound bite, the words have no logical meaning: The U.S. continues to embrace the dictatorships of Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Jordan, as has been the case for 60 years. In fact, Bush has added Libya to the “approved” list. Meanwhile, Israel is attacking elected governments in the Palestinian Authority and Lebanon with U.S. support.

As for the democracy in Iraq that Bush wants Russia to emulate, things haven’t worked out as neocons like invasion architect Richard Perle had hoped when he fantasized about Pentagon favorite Ahmed Chalabi leading Baghdad to recognize Israel. On Sunday, according to Reuters, the notoriously divided Iraqi parliament unanimously passed a motion condemning the Israeli offensive and urging the U.N. Security Council and the meeting of the Group of Eight leaders to intervene “to stop the ... Israeli criminal aggression.”

Instead of creating a malleable U.S.-Israel ally, the overthrow of the secular Sunni leader Saddam Hussein has extended a fiery arc of Shiite-dominated religious fanaticism blazing across the Mideast skyline that betrays Bush’s claim to be bringing democracy and stability to the region.

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By dr sam, April 29, 2007 at 11:53 am Link to this comment
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By Hondo, August 11, 2006 at 6:15 pm Link to this comment
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Thank you, Pat, for the education in liberalism that you have given me. It has been my experience that the disease of liberalism is a cancer of the mind, the heart, and the soul. It renders a person completely unable to differentiate between fact and fiction, between good and evil, and between reality and delusion. You and your like-minded comrads have provided an absolute textbook confirming all of the above.
You say that my opinions are pathetically childish. The opinions I expressed in my posts are that the U.S. military is the finest military force in the history of the world, that the members of our armed forces are intelligent and highly trained, and that the civilized portion of the world owes their very civilized existence to the brave Americans who have fought, bled and died for the cause of freedom. That’s childish? No, it’s not. It’s just true. In WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and on and on, up to the present day, American man and women have gone to every corner of the globe to secure the blessings of liberty for millions of people other than fellow Americans. The aftermath of those wars saw the U.S. spend billions of dollars to rebuild infrastructure that had been destroyed in those wars. Many of the countries we have rebuilt were formerly enemies, yet we reached out to them as new allies. There has never, in the history of the world, been a country that has amassed as much wealth and power, and used it for more good, than the U.S.
You deny saying that Hezbollah is not a terrorist organization. Well you certainly provided a link to a site that said that very thing, and you touted that site as complete truth. That is typical liberalism. Say something completely outrageous, deny you said it, and accuse the listener of being hateful simply because we heard what you said. You say that it would be a waste of your valuable time to respond to the facts I have presented. Typical liberalism. It’s impossible for you to respond because I have presented facts which are easily verifiable, so you choose to insult me instead. You say that there are always two sides to every story. That is actually a true statement. Those two sides are the truth and the fiction. The problem with liberalism is that liberals assign the same moral equivilency to both. It’s not so hard to see the truth. I’ll make a confession—when I graduated from college over 20 years ago, I was a true-red, died-in-the-wool liberal. I had faithfully absorbed all of the liberal claptrap that had been spewed on me by my professors, and I just knew that conservatives were the very picture of evil. A colleague said to me one day, “You’re a smart guy Hondo. Do some research on your own. Do some thinking on your own. Don’t believe liberalism just because some college prof said it was cool to be that way. Analyze the issues for yourself and see where you end up.” I did that, and was completey shocked to find that the bulk of what I had been told by the purveyors of liberalism was pure fiction. You say that I am mindless for believing in the opinions I have expressed. I disagree, because I am supported by facts/logic/reason. The truth remains the truth, no matter how loud the liberal screams to the contrary.

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By Pat, August 10, 2006 at 11:12 pm Link to this comment
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Bukko: Thanks for the kind words.

Hondo: Now I will say it and mean it. You and not just your opinions truly are pathetically childish. I disagree with you because I’m full of HATE??? You don’t have a clue! I detest arguing with anyone let alone a total stranger. Why do you live your on-line life like an attack dog? You clearly don’t want to take part in reasoned sharing of differences of political opinion. You just want to be ‘right’. You don’t respectfully share your views. You beat people with them while abusively name-calling and ridiculing. Why is that?

I never said every single member of Hezbollah isn’t a terrorist, or any of the other exaggerations you’ve attributed to me. I only felt the Galloway video was interesting because someone finally had the guts to state to a clearly biased reporter that reporters are not as unbiased as they claim to be. Contrary to your opinion, there are always two sides to every story and I’m sick of reporters, politicians, and narrow minded people like you who insist there is only one side…your side. We’re not all stupid or uninformed because we don’t view the world through your personal red, white and blue glasses.

You love your country. Great. The rest of us are just as proud of our countries but we don’t treat others as inferior because they’re not “us”. Have you ever even visited anther country or do you just get all your perceptions of them from boob tube newscasters?

Even if I took a week to develop reasoned answers to your every single point with evidence of my own you still wouldn’t accept it. Others have tried on this very blog and you called them liars. I tried and you called me a liar and a slut. You’re so locked into your version of “party politics” that for you there is no middle ground…no opinion but your own.

If it makes you feel good and superior to live such a narrow reality fill your boots. You’re going to get the shock of your life one day when you finally find out world history isn’t quite as dogmatically one-sided as you insist it is. Till then, have a great life…at least till marshal law is declared and you can’t even discuss politics without FEMA’s permission.

I’ve met many people in my 57 years. You absolutely qualify as the most closed minded human being I’ve ever met. Enjoy your land of Oz, Hondo.

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By Bukko in Australia, August 10, 2006 at 8:31 pm Link to this comment
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Pat: I read your long commentary, and let me say “Good onya!” Heartfelt, well-reasoned and well-written. The world needs more Canadians! I hardly see any down here, and this is a land full of immigrants. I’ve met more Maltese than Canucks. Only one was when my wife and I were handing out fliers for an anti-nuclear power rally prior to Hiroshima day, a young bloke who came down because he married an Aussie gal. I guess the Great White North is a good enough place that people don’t feel compelled to migrate to the Great Red South.

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By Hondo, August 10, 2006 at 5:53 pm Link to this comment
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Thank you, Pat, for another teachable moment. I have provided solid evidence to deconstruct your liberal lies. The facts that I have provided are easily verifiable for anyone who wishes to look for the truth. You don’t respond to any of the facts I have provided, and you rant and rave about how Hezbollah is not a terrorist group, Iraqis were better off under Sadaam, the American military is composed of ignorant people, Canada derives no national security benefits from the U.S.A., and the rest of the world has received no benefit from America whatsoever. You do this because your liberal ideology has imbued you with a hate that has made you deaf, dumb and blind to all that is true and real in this world. You say that the reason why you don’t respond to the facts/logic/reason that I have presented is because you don’t have time, and because you are being considerate to the other liberals on this site. That’s BS and you know it. Liberals don’t respond to conservative truth simply because self evident truth is impossible to refute.
Let’s end our lesson today with a little current events exercise. Everbody, I’m sure, is aware of the Islamofacist terrorist scheme that was thwarted this week. The U.S. and Great Britain worked together, shared intelligence, relied on info gathered through the NSA wiretapping program, and saved who knows how many lives. Thank God we have a President and an administration that have the courage to defend our country, and other countries around the world, despite the constant barrage of left wing lunacy spewed in their direction on a daily basis. Here endeth the lesson.

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By Pat, August 9, 2006 at 1:18 pm Link to this comment
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Hondo: I just read your last two posts. One of Hitler’s top henchmen was reputed to have made a statement that directly relates to what is clearly your personal brand of ideology. I won’t waste time looking for the exact quote since it is the idea I want to convey rather than the exact words.

Paraphrased, he basically said that if you want the people to believe a lie, just keep on saying it loud and long enough and eventually most of the people will begin to believe it, (specifically because it’s being said by people they have accepted as being in authority over them). He absolutely proved it was effective (and today’s advertisers make an extremely good living using this same technique).

By the lies Hitler and his cabal told repeatedly to the German sheeple, (because the sheeple chose to believe their leaders rather than their own eyes), Hitler’s propaganda convinced them to accept without protest the deaths of not only millions of Jews but millions of Gypsies, and millions of others…basically anyone who dared disobey the dictator’s commands or simply if he had any prejudice toward their ‘kind’.

There are many people in every country even today who still turn off their independent thought processes and instead believe only what their chosen leaders and their talking head newscasters tell them as if it’s all gospel truth simply because their leaders claim it is. You are clearly one of them. No matter what you see or hear that gives the lie to your leaders words, you still insist on blindly following your leaders, as if they are incapable of ever being wrong.

I originally believed you were just a guy who got his jollies from stirring the pot with nonsense statements just to watch people get mad. Then I went to your site and actually had a look at what you state there as well. Based on your postings on your own site as well as what you continually spout here, it became clear that you actually truly believe the bull droppings you continually spout.

You’re not just a guy having a little fun by prodding people with a verbal stick. You appear to be something far more deadly…a blind bigot…the kind that would happily volunteer to join Bush’s SS if he had one so you could ‘deal’ more effectively with those of us who don’t bow down and worship your personal choice of dictators…George Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfield, et al. No matter how many laws the leaders you worship continue to put in place to take a way your freedoms while ensuring their own, you still blindly insist that all they do is for the good of the sheeple (whether the rest of us sheeple want it or not).

You have continually accused me and others of refusing to answer your “talking points”. I don’t know why others didn’t waste their time answering every single one of your claims but here’s why I didn’t. I made the deliberate choice not to answer each and every one of your so-called truths specifically because: (A) I know most of the world doesn’t believe as you apparently do, so I felt it would be pointless to argue with you; (B) I didn’t want to get into repeated, extremely long personal disagreements with you or anyone else on what is basically a PUBLIC forum.

You yourself repeatedly chose which parts of people’s comments to give answer to and which to ignore at the same time as you were accusing others of this. You also repeatedly and rudely called others, including the author, “liars” when their opinion differed from your own.

In voicing your brand of truth you claim “Christian Conservative” beliefs. It is so-called Christians like you and George Bush who are giving genuine Christians who simply try to live a life without hate and war a bad reputation as fanatic nut-bars. Tell me Hondo, what would the Jesus you claim to serve think of your continual nasty, hateful attitude toward anyone you disagree with? What would He think of your using words like “liar” and “slut” on anyone who merely chooses to believe differently than you?

You love to prate on about teachable moments while being totally unteachable yourself. You are not only a nationalistic braggart but a blind bigot. You’re so in love with your idea of America as being the be all and end all that you can’t even comprehend how racist you truly are. Yours is the only country on this planet worth living in? The rest of the world should be grateful for your largess? What utter nonsense! It’s people like you that makes people from other countries dislike Americans.

The very fact that you can mouth the unbelievable stupidity that Iraq and Afghanistan are better off because America came over and carpet bombed them with Depleted Uranium to effect the regime change America, not Iraq and Afghanistan wanted is ludicrous! When exactly did the Iraq or Afghan people vote for or against America interfering in their lives? How is Afghanistan better off now that it’s only cash crop is opium and it’s people are oppressed by warlords, who charge them even for the rocks to build their hovels, while their American puppet government cowers in soldier surrounded compounds? How is Iraq better off when they live daily with bullets and bombs in destroyed homes, while their American controlled government tells them what to do?

Your belief that your government is always just and good is as foolish as your president’s belief that people on the other side of the world would welcome America with flower strewn parades while they go about the business of burying their dead children and trying to rebuild their destroyed lives. I feel sorry for people like you, because your kind are destroying this planet with your pride, hatred and blind bigotry.

How would you feel if Canada and Mexico decided your country needed regime change (which many of us do happen to long for) and decided to march on Washington? But of course we’d have to weaken you with many years of sanctions first, like your country did to Iraq and Afghanistan. Then we’d have to use the UN to disarm you so you’d be easy pickings like you did to Iraq and Afghanistan. Then we’d have to carpet bomb you with 2000 tons of DU munitions like you did to Iraq and Afghanistan so your soldiers would begin to sicken and die with multiple cancers. Then finally, once we wore you down every which way from Sunday, we’d just trot into Washington and arrest your leaders and put them on trial for war crimes against the countries they’ve invaded, like America is doing in Iraq.

For any that escape we can make up a card game offering big time prize money to any turncoat willing to turn in any American leader who escaped (just like a lottery…wow five million bucks for the Prez or his father or a million for his brother…hey soldier he’s right over here hiding in this basement…can I have my millions now please). After all its all just a game right. Isn’t that what many of your Iraqi troops have said when asked how it felt to kill those they’ve been told are terrorists rather than men fighting to free their homes of foreign aggressors…“killing these Muslim ‘terrorists’ is just like playing a video game!” (Oops that one was just a kid…ah well at least he/she won’t grow up to be a terrorist).

To those Iraqi it’s no video game, Hondo. It’s their babies, not yours, who are dying. It’s their homes, not yours, being blown up by your American war machine. It’s them, not you, who are facing the bombs and bullets and guard dogs and prisons and torture, and hunger and thirst and rape and death and death and death and death, and death!

Right now all of Iraq and Afghanistan are currently “Katrina” victims on a nation-wide and far more severe scale. Only nobody is providing them with FEMA trailers to live in after their homes are blasted to rubble. And there’s no Oprah to encourage others to donate homes and household goods to replace what they’ve had destroyed. And no jobs to go back to. And no farms left to grow their food on because American soldiers were ordered to destroy those farms to try and force them to say where soldiers might be hiding. And for this you believe they’re THANKFUL to America and BETTER OFF? What fool’s paradise do you actually live in?

I wish you could spend just one week in what’s left of an Iraqi home, wearing their clothing and with your skin tanned so you will look just like one of them to those friendly but trigger-happy American soldiers, so you could FINALLY see and experience what you feel they are supposed to be grateful to America for. Maybe then you’d finally stop calling those of us who hate war liars and sluts!

And maybe then you’d realize why so many of them have become guerilla fighters that are using the only means they have to try and stop any more of the giant American war machine from killing any more of their children. Maybe then you’d finally see your war mongering leaders for what they really are. They’re all carbon copies of “Madeline Albright” number of innocent dead Arab children too high a price to pay for regime change!

Till you’ve lived what they have to live on a daily basis, YOU KNOW NOTHING!

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By Hondo, August 8, 2006 at 12:04 pm Link to this comment
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Pat provides us with a link that states that Hezbollah is not a terrorist organization, and calls that truth that the mainstream media doesn’t have the courage to report. What more proof do we need? This kind of radical liberalism is a cancer of the heart, the soul and the brain. It renders a person completely incapable of discerning fact from fiction or good from evil. Pat, do you truly believe that Hezbollah is not a terrorist organization? How do you expect anyone to take you seriously with that kind of cockamamie belief system? It is, in fact, self evident that Hezbollah is a terrorist organization. Self evident, anyway, to anyone who isn’t blinded by ideology.

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By Hondo, August 8, 2006 at 8:01 am Link to this comment
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Well, here we are at another teachable moment. Comment #17126 contained several facts which, in true liberal fashion, Bukko and Pat ignored. It’s easy to be deceived when you ignore the facts, isn’t it? The one fact which Pat responded directly to was the one about the good people of Iraq and Afghanistan being better off today than they were before. Pat confuses the actions of the terrorists with the actions and beliefs of the law abiding citizens in those countries. I thought that liberals were supposed to be all about nuanced thought processes. Clearly that isn’t true, so I will explain something to you. The terrorists want us gone, so they blow up bombs and they shoot at us. The law abiding citizens are grateful for our military presence and our fight for freedom from terrorism. The war will be over when the terrorists are completely destroyed. We have a president who is committed to that goal, and for that i am grateful.

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By Pat, August 8, 2006 at 6:36 am Link to this comment
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Here’s a little bit of truth that main stream media won’t print. Thank God there are still a few people with the guts to stand up to corrupt politicians and the main stream media who enable them. Their deliberate manipulation of news storys into corrupted and biased reporting is shameful and disgusting.

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By wilson, August 7, 2006 at 11:53 pm Link to this comment
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Maybe another phony terrorist attack before
November Elections- l. “to preserve GOP control of Congress” (why it works that way, I’ll never understand) 2. Provide excuse for nuking Iran.
WAS CALLED OFF?, since Israel already has the excuse, that Iran is “the support of Hezzbollah”.
Isn’t all this shite Insane? Beyond Insane.. Beyond Sick… so what’s left?

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By Bukko in Australia, August 7, 2006 at 9:36 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Pat: It is a shame that movements are defined in the public mind by their extremists. The American left wing was tarred by the radicals who bombed campus buildings, Islam has been defamed by terrorists like Osama bin Laden, and Christianity is denigrated by nitwits like those preachers whose names you’re too kind to mention. I worked at several Catholic hospitals in the U.S. and I’d feel honoured when I’d have priests as patients. After the sex abuse scandals broke, I’d look at them and think “Were you one?”

I used to think that Hondo was an intelligent provocateur, spouting outrageous nonsense to get a rise out of people. But when he repeats statements like “life is better now in Iraq” in this forum and his own blog, I believe he’s stating his heartfelt opinion. Utterly wrong, of course. Everyone who knows anything realises life is worse under U.S. occupation than it was under Saddam. Imagine—my country made a living hell even worse! But if you’ve dealt with delusional people, you’ve seen how they can fool themselves.

I know Australia will suffer when what’s coming finally happens. I think they will suffer less, because the people here care for each other. Kinda like Canucks in that respect. Comes from that underlying doughty British spirit, and having to rely on each other to survive in a harsh landscape.

But we didn’t come here for comfort. It was morality. My wife and I aren’t religious, but we didn’t want it on our consciences that we stayed in a country that was going to kill millions with nuclear weapons. That, I fear, is where this will end, with the nuking of Iran, and perhaps Pakistan when the Pakis give H-bombs to Osama in revenge for the attack on their co-religionists.

As for America ucking up Antarctica? Already happening! Look at the melting ice shelves… Global warming will make Canada a more desirable vacation spot, though wink

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By Pat, August 7, 2006 at 12:35 pm Link to this comment
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Hi there Bukko: You can just bet your boots we have many politically brain dead in Canada too. Some are even in our government…like our new Prime Minister! (I didn’t vote for him. I found him too fond of US/British policy). And no I didn’t know ‘Archie’ had a site where he can rant to the like-minded. But it doesn’t surprise me. That kind of mindset likes an audience.

As a Christian myself, I find “Archie Bunker’s” brand of ‘christian(?)’ belief really sickening because all genuine Christians world-wide have begun to be labeled as crazy fanatics specifically because of ding bats like Bush and Archie and some of the big name American, so-called preachers (I won’t bother to say any names as their money grubbing and war mongering ways and their butt-kissing endorsement of the Shrub’s disastrous war policies are well known.

People like these sometimes make me ashamed to even be called a ‘Christian’. The very Bible the Shrub and Archie claim to believe in stated it clearly…Blessed are the peacemakers. Their very war lust and lack of concern for the innocent non-combatants shows they are not and never were genuine Christians. I only wish more people, especially reporters, could see the difference between the real thing and the ‘lying & deceiving’ hypocrites who preach what they don’t live.

Although I greatly appreciated your concern for my feelings, I was never steaming angry…just disgusted. Before retiring I was an ordained minister and a crisis counselor. I’ve dealt with the delusional before. His statements went so far beyond rational I can’t believe anyone on this planet could possibly be that big a simpleton politically. Not even someone trying to be faithful to their leader out of patriotism could possibly be that unenlightened. He is either: (A) a liar who doesn’t even believe his own drivel but who is simply trying to tick people off to get his jollies (like a little boy who likes to fart and burp to irritate those around him); or (B) he really is a genuinely delusional wing nut seriously in need of medical help. Either way I never took his comments very seriously.

You were right about one thing Bukko…Canada is almost certainly in for some serious trouble in the not too distant future. Some of our leaders have joined the world’s elite, ‘let’s see how many countries we can screw up while making a few extra war profits’ club. Already Canadian soldiers have begun to be specifically targeted by the Afghan forces. Why? Because although we were only there in a peace-keeping/observer role before, we’ve switched to being part of the problem Shrub & Co. created. If it keeps up we’ll end up with the same reputation as America and Briton and will begin to face the same sort of retaliation.

When people have no war making equipment as America, Briton and Israel do, they are left only with guerrilla tactics to try to defeat their oppressors. Sooner or later we will face those freedom fighters (labeled terrorists by their big bully oppressors) unless we return to a peace keeping role.

By the way, did you enjoy the rant that Iraq, Afghanistan, Japan, and even all of Europe are only free because America and nobody else died to make them free? ” My favorite part was how Iraq and Afghanistan are grateful for America’s help and that they’re now better off. I wonder if that’s why they’re so busy these days thanking their American liberators with suicide bombs and bullets in such great numbers? Maybe they just want to return America’s gift ‘in kind’.

I’m glad you found a better place to live even though I believe when it all hits the fan, it will hit you as well, because Austrailia is part of the ‘coalition of the willing’ too. With the help of all the self-proclaimed peaceniks like Bush, Blair, et al, I doubt there’s a safe place left on this planet…except maybe Antarctica. But give them time. They’ll screw up that continent too sooner or later.

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By Bukko in Australia, August 7, 2006 at 2:26 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

How are you going Pat? When Aussies hear my accent, they ask “Are you Canadian?” That’s in part because I don’t have any particular regional American tone, but mainly because it’s highly insulting to ask a Canadian if they’re a Yank! That’s how horrible it is in the world’s eyes to be an American today. People get angry if someone thinks they are one…

I apologise for the inconsiderate actions of my countrymen like Hondo. He and his ilk are in the minority. However, the current administration in Washington D.C. only cares about the opinion of this deluded few. Sadly, all of President Cheney’s actions are designed to appeal to this paranoid nativist fringe. Do they have many such types in Canada? Do they have any political influence?

I appreciate reading your posts, even though they have no effect on the intended target. Do you know that Hondo has a blog called I shudder to think what Jesus would think of a so-called Christian who calls a peaceful grandmother a “slut.” It was Jesus who stepped in to protect an adulterous woman from being stoned. The so-called Christians in my homeland are actually Pharisees. I’m so glad I’m an athiest.

My wife and I considered emigrating to Canada. That would have been a lot easier than Australia. Unfortunately, when the U.S. economy implodes due to the financal mismanagement of the Republican cabaal, it’s going to take Canada down with it. Good luck, Canucks. You know what they call you down here? “The world’s second-best Australians”

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By Hondo, August 7, 2006 at 12:27 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Pat—Thank you for proving to all of the assembled masses that my characterization of you was 100% accurate. I have rarely seen such a massive amount of ignorance displayed in one written statement. Let’s deconstruct your liberal lies and see what the facts really are.
1. Canada doesn’t need our protection? Tell that to your prime minister, who still has his head firmly attached to his torso thanks to American Homeland Security. It’s mighty cheeky of you to say you don’t need our help, when you know full well that we will continue to protect you free of charge. I would prefer a simple “thank you”, but apparently gratitude isn’t part of your DNA. By the way, how about Japan, all of Europe, Iraq and Afghanistan as countries/regions that are vastly better off because America sacrificed life and limb to help? You ignorance on this subject makes me glad that my kids don’t go to school in Canada!
2. Torture/horrible conditions at Gitmo? Not according to the bipartisan group of U.S. Congressmen who toured the facility. All of them (with the exception of the always amusing Swim Coach—Ted Kennedy) proclaimed that all Gitmo prisoners were well treated.
3. Half a million Iraqi children dead because of U.S. sanctions? Pull your head out honey! You are refering to the U.N. Oil For Food debacle which killed almost as many Iraqis as Saddam did.
4. You cited American reporters as your source for info about military recruitment. You probably don’t realize this, but about half of everything in the American mainstream media is made up, including the info you just cited. In Canada that percentage rises to about 70%. An adequate educational system would probably enable you to think more independently, but, hey, what do I know? I’m just a conservative living in the greatest country in the history of the world that saves your bacon on a daily basis!

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By Pat, August 6, 2006 at 1:50 pm Link to this comment
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I hereby extend an apology, in advance, to those who are actually intelligent, and caring Americans. What I’m about to say is not my view of you who are actually capable of reasoned thought. My apology also to those American soldiers who genuinely care for the civilians they are supposed to be helping. I know not all American military personnel are as hateful as some have become as a result of the horrors they live on a daily basis.


Hey there “low”: (thanks for the “Hondo” name translation, Fadel…it suits him). My final act of time wasted replying to “low’ will be these concluding remarks:

I’ve tried to be civilized, polite and restrained in my comments to you “Hondo” but apparently you just don’t know when to quit exposing your stupidity. So here goes!

Is your real name Archie Bunker, well known to all who loved that show, as the most clueless of American patriots? Are you really as stupid, dense and rudely ignorant as you are working so hard at making yourself out to be? Are you truly only polite to those who bask in and worship your extremely limited version of enlightenment as Archie did”, O ye who art in the extreme minority of world opinion?

Regarding your unbelievably moronic claim that America is all that keeps Canada safe…which is the only reason I bothered to waste my time answering your foolishness…

Canadians have never needed and currently still do not need or want America’s help because even us dumb hick Canadians have clearly seen that every country America decides to help sooner or later ends up as either an American State, an American protectorate, or a DU coated, bombed to stone-age level, useless wasteland full of cancer-ridden, crippled, starving, homeless victims of US helpfulness. Take a look at Iraq and Afghanistan for two excellent and current examples of American helpfulness. Ah well at least your prez found somewhere to store/dispose of his waste DU materials.

Name a country from, oh say, the last 25 years of American helpfulness (we’ll stick to those years you were supposedly a thinking adult since you said you’re 46 now) that honestly believes it’s better off after America has come along to HELP them? And name any of them that actually asked for America’s help in destroying their country! At least under dictator Saddam the Iraqi still had homes and jobs, and food, and live children.

They can’t say that any more after all America’s help can they! But then I just bet you would agree with Madeline Albright who stated on TV before the world that half a million Iraqi children dead of American sanctions over a ten year period was a small price to pay for regime change. And that doesn’t even include the new batch of Iraqi civilians your soldier friends have helped to find freedom over the last three years. Your prez helped them to freedom alright. He just neglected to mention their freedom would be found in mass graves throughout Iraq, as a direct result of the help they received from their liberators.

And we won’t even discuss the many reports, by female American soldiers, let alone Iraqi women, as well as men and boys imprisoned at Abu Graib, of how frequently a few of America’s brave boys can’t even keep their peckers in their pants, let alone their bullets in their guns when they’re around innocent civilians, or female military personnel who make the mistake of not travelling in packs even to the bathroom or shower. It’s pretty bad when American military women are in more danger from their brothers in arms then they are of the enemy. But I bet you will say you never read any of those storys, right!

And before you say that Iraq and Afghanistan are better off because their leaders killed and tortured some of them, kindly remember the whole world has seen the Guantanamo and Abu Graib photos and it wasn’t Saddam’s soldiers doing all the rape, torture and even murder of civilians and prisoners in those pictures and reports but American and British soldiers.

I believe it’s also America’s leaders who say the Geneva conventions are outdated and should be dispensed with. But, when they torture, it’s probably justified in your view, because your prez says so, right!

My family and many like them have worked hard to keep Canada safe. They are genuine heroes, unlike yourself. You are just a blow hard couch warrior who’s bravery is all in his big mouth rather than his actions.

Canadians don’t need multi-million man armies or multi-trillion dollar war making factories, because we’re not trying to take over the world’s assets for our rich corporations.

We also don’t need your help to be safer from ‘terrorists’ because unlike your buddy and his neo-con-artist friends, Canada doesn’t run around the world stealing other people’s real estate and assets by bombing them with DU till there’s nowhere left in those countries that’s safe to live. Canada doesn’t need to have something like 122 military bases in countries around the world because we don’t try to be the world’s unwanted bully-boy police force.

Our government also hasn’t hired Haliburton to build a bunch of new detention (concentration) camps to hold, I believe the report was up to 2,000,000 dissidents in the near future either. They must be for dissidents because it can’t be for the illegal aliens the Shrub has welcomed to swarm over the border so he can supply cleap labor to all your country’s rich business owners so they won’t have to pay an actual living wage to those who already live in America legally.

My comment re teens and out of work people being part of your military recruitment efforts related directly to repeated news stories from American TV and newspaper reporters, who interviewed a broad selection of your own countrymen. I’ve read many stories of parents and students who continually fight to keep recruiters off school property and of the fact that your schools lose federal funding if they refuse access to recruiters. Why does your military recruit in Junior High and High School? Because your war machine has to get it’s new cannon fodder before their minds develop enough to realize they’re being conned with promises a mature, thinking adult would see through immediately.

I’ve also read American news articles that your valiant ‘war prez’ (who did all his fighting for American freedoms while hiding in the National Guard) is offering American citizenship to Mexican and other foreigners willing to serve two years in your military. Of course they’ll probably be dead or dying of bullets, bombs or DU by the time they’ve finished their two years service (unless your prez institutes his stop-loss program with them, like he’s done to current troops), but hey at least they’ll have an American passport while they’re eating DU dust and killing on demand for George and the Veep. If the comments of America’s current war veterans are anything to go by, the ‘new’ passport holders will also have no job and little or no medical coverage in America once they tour of duty is over…if they miraculously survive America’s endless supply of DU munitions…but you can’t have everything can you.

I read just yesterday that 40,000 Americans have gone AWOL since 2000. If that story is true, I guess a lot more (smart) Americans are getting sick of your leader’s never-ending wars too. Hey, I have an idea! Why don’t you go and offer to enlist and go in place of one of them. Ask your teenage kids to go with you if you’re really such a patriot, being as how you’re so brave and such great a supporter of the Shrub’s war efforts. After all, if it’s good for other people’s kids it should be good for you and your kids too. Just don’t come crying when they come home in a body bag or a wheel chair, because, after all, you claim to be in full support of the Shrub’s war effort so if you lose a few of those you love, at least you’re bringing Bush’s version of American democracy to the world.

It was American reporters who mentioned all the recruiters dogging the steps of America’s youth in high schools and universities. It was those they interviewed who said they didn’t see any other choice but to join up because so many can not find work in any other types of jobs. BUT…To any of those who’ve actually WILLINGLY CHOSEN a military career whom I may have offended by my comment I offer apology, but to you “low”, as you said, I offer NONE.

Your comments on this and at least one other blog where I’ve seen your “name” and read your bombastic drivel show you are a foolish and childish boy in a man’s body, who belittles anyone he thinks he can get away with on the flimsiest excuse. You are a verbal bully. Are you a bully in person too?

I think if someone were to steal all your generalistic verbal labels like “liberal”, “conservative”, “Marxist”, “liar”, etc, you would be like a Frenchman with his hands tied behind his back. They talk while gesturing with their hands continually. (I know…my husband is French.) You are unable to address a single point without your never-ending labels and if someone disagrees with you, you’re convinced they’re one of your ‘pet’ labels. For example, I’ve stated clearly that I’m not a “liberal” but your tiny brain insists that anyone who disagrees with you must be a liberal or they’d agree with you.

The last time I directly addressed you I stated that your attitude was pathetic. I’m very sorry for that. I was mistaken. Someone has to actually be able to reason intelligently before thinking people can legitimately call them pathetic. You are living so far inside your own “Archie Bunker” dream world that you are totally incapable of seeing anything that doesn’t fit your own narrow world view. That doesn’t make you pathetic. It just makes you self-deceived. So I apologize for calling you pathetic.

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By Bukko in Australia, August 5, 2006 at 10:07 pm Link to this comment
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But Fadel, it’s so much fun to irritate these trolls! The trick is to stir them up whilst expending as little effort as possible. Ideally, one writes a short comment which inflames them to blurt out a stem-winding diatribe. The ratio of response to provocation is key! They’re so enraged that it’s not hard to do. Cruel, I admit, like rattling a stick on the fence which encloses a frustrated, barking dog… I used to do that, too!

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By Hondo, August 5, 2006 at 7:36 pm Link to this comment
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Pat—Nowhere in your long, rambling screed did I see an apology to our brave men and women of the American military for the way you characterized them (high school kids, out of work moms and dads). Nowhere in your nutty liberal diatribe did you respond to the link that I provided concerning recruitment goals and education level of the recruits. Typical!
You are right about one thing—I overlooked the fact that you are from Canada. My mistake. That does bring up an important question, however. Why are you so ungrateful for the national security that America has freely provided for you? Why aren’t you thanking God daily for the existence of the United States and the freedom we have secured for you and your fellow countrymen? You thank God you are not an American, but you gladly accept the national security perks of being our neighbor. The brave men and women of the U.S. Armed Forces have fought, and bled, and sometimes died to defeat the forces of tyranny which threaten both you and I, and then you demean them. My characterization of you stands, and I make no apology!

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By Fadel Abdallah, August 5, 2006 at 6:34 pm Link to this comment
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Comment # 16821 by Pat:

Thank you dear Pat for your well-reasoned response to this “low” hondo; for “low” is the Spanish nom de plume he himself unwittingly has chosen for himself.

Your’s is the really the final ultimate words to be said about this ugly character. In light of this, may I suggest to everyone who has been annoyed by this evil animal just to stop reading him or responding to him. That would eventually kill him, since he’s a parasite who only thrives on others’ reaction to him.

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By Pat, August 5, 2006 at 7:34 am Link to this comment
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Hondo: Let me clear up a couple of your misconceptions (not that it will do any good with one as closed-minded as yourself):

1. I’m a 57 year old grandmother and no “slut”, but since you clearly enjoy being so crude fill your boots if that’s what gives you your jollies. I’m also not a liberal or a conservative, but since you obviously believe so strongly in labels as well as in making assumptions, what I really am is very tired of blow-hards like yourself who use the American constitution (which was once one of the greatest documents ever written, but is now, according to your ‘commander in chief’, just another goddamn piece of paper) to try to shout down any opinion other than your own.

By the way, I’m not even American…something for which I thank God on a daily basis. I clearly stated where I’m from in an earlier post, which you might have noticed if you ever read more than the parts of what others say that you don’t like.

2. Not everyone who thinks your president is a dumb-ass war mongering moron is crazy simply because we don’t worship him or his policies the way you clearly do. As you yourself pointed out, your own constitution…you know, the one you so proudly brag about…gives others the right to disagree with your personal world view. But then, apparently you believe your right to freedom of speech is greater than the rest of the world’s since you use terms like “slut” or “Marxist” or “liar” on anyone who has the temerity to dare to disagree with you.

3. I was calling your attitude pathetic, not you personally. Of course I doubt you’d be able to understand that there is a definite difference since subtlety clearly isn’t your strong suit. If I wasn’t clear enough the first time, allow me to reiterate…It was George Bush and his neo-con friends I called war-crazy thugs. At least get your facts straight. If you’re going to quote me at least be accurate.

4. Apparently you really love name calling, since only a pig totally lacking in manners would use such a derogatory term as ‘slut’ on someone who simply disagrees with him politically. Apparently your mommy didn’t teach you how to disagree without using such disgusting and childish words. I didn’t notice you using such sexual slurs with the men who disagreed with you. Was it because I’m a woman that I got the sexual slur included in your diatribe?

5. At no time did I say you had no right to support Bush unless you’re willing to fight America’s bloody, life destroying and never ending wars. I simply asked why you don’t put your money where your mouth is. (And by the way, I didn’t ask why you weren’t fighting in THIS particular conflict. Specifically because I didn’t know your age, I asked where you were in ALL the conflicts America has taken part in during your lifetime. That pretty much took your current age out of the equation. And I guess your answer shows where you’d be if asked to enlist…hiding behind your constitutional right to stay home while others do all the fighting for your freedom to call other people ‘sluts’. Too bad you don’t practice what you preach. You must have been REALLY relieved when that bill your friends in Washington were trying to get approved stated that they wanted to be able to draft all males and females from 18-46 into a minimum of 2 years ‘military or related’ service. What a relief for you. By the time they get it into law you’ll have made it over the cutoff age.

6. I happen to come from a military family and married into the military, so I fully understand the concept of fighting for truth and justice and freedom from oppression, unlike yourself who according to your own words hides behind your constitutional right to stay safe while others fight for you so you can continue to be an armchair warrior like your best buddy George Bush. I just happen to disagree with war mongers who want everyone else but themselves and their children to do the fighting and dying, especially when those wars are nothing less than conflicts fought for power and profit. But then that concept is apparently beyond your understanding.

7. As to the freedoms I enjoy as the result of the efforts of others…My own husband of 39 years spent his entire adult life in the military and saw duty in many places around the world, including alongside Americans, so before you shoot your mouth off any further about my lack of understanding regarding the quality of people willing to serve their country, at least attempt to recognize that others might actually know as much of what they’re talking about as you claim to. My family put their ‘patriotism’ where you only put your flag-waving rhetoric.

If my country were threatened by another my husband would be the first to re-up even though he’s now retired, and I’d be proud of him for doing so, and would look for some way to aid in the war effort myself…but ONLY IF MY COUNTRY WAS ACTUALLY UNDER DIRECT ATTACK FROM A REAL ARMY WITH REAL AIRPLANES, BOMBS AND TROOPS. Unlike America, who has designated itself as the world police when it can’t even take care of policing it’s own borders and who has more criminals and jails to put them in per capita than any other country on this planet according to your own US statistics. Clean up your own country before you seek to clean up everyone else’s, armchair cowboy.

Now to Sheer’s article…You said he had basically nit-picked an ‘off the cuff’ remark in order to ridicule your ‘commander in chief’. Well, since these comments were only one of a whole list of seemingly never ending foot in mouth statements made by you much vaunted ‘commander in chief’, and heard round the world by millions through television broadcasts, why shouldn’t a reporter have the right to comment on them? After all it isn’t as if your ‘commander in chief’ isn’t well known for his verbal gaffs, now is it. He’s not exactly the brightest light bulb in the box. He failed to finish university, he flunked the National Guard, and was even a failure in his own oil business. So it’s hardly a surprise to anyone but you that he sucks as a president too. As far as I’ve ever seen the only thing he’s ever apparently been successful at is his Skull & Bones club and his sending other people to kill for him while he and his family and friends stay home and get rich off the war profits.

Finally…If I’m a ‘slut’ for daring to disagree with you then I guess that would make you George Bush’s ‘pimp’ since you keep trying so hard to sell him to people who can clearly see what you are obviously totally unable to. Thanks anyway but I’d rather have a real man and neither you or Georgie qualify.

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By Bukko in Australia, August 4, 2006 at 9:42 pm Link to this comment
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Pat: Don’t you realise what this Bush adoration is? A cult! Just like with the Moonies, Jim Jones, David Koresh and others. Kim Jong Il in North Korea also comes to mind. They slavishly devote themselves to defending every twist and turn of the dear leader.

And they’re so ANGRY. You ever notice when debating with a right-winger that the hostility leaps right out at you? They should be happy as pigs in slop, because they control every branch of the U.S. government, but they’re still frantic that things are slipping away. That’s part of the mind control tactics cults use. “You are under threat; bad people want to take things away from you.” That’s why Fox News has to harp about “the War on Christmas.” It fires these people up if they think there’s something to fear.

If it’s any consolation to you, the mindset shown by Hondo is in the minority. Even in the U.S. they’re outnumbered. In Canada, Europe, here in Australia and other parts of the developed world, people accept the reality of global warming, for instance. There are differences of opinion on what to do about it, but people know it’s real. I think that might be the reason such people feel so surly. They know that reality does not conform to their cultish beliefs, and the dissonance is too much for them to handle. So they have to flounder about and insult anyone who tries to shake their false beliefs. They can’t handle the truth. Im pity them…

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By Hondo, August 4, 2006 at 9:20 pm Link to this comment
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Thank you, Pat, for living up to every one of my expectations. You have provided us with a teachable moment. Let’s go through all of your “points” (liberal lies) one by one and refute each one with facts.
1. You say that this site has devolved into my personal name calling rant corner. That’s pretty typical of liberals. When a conservative uses facts, logic and reason to refute liberal lies, the conservative is “mean spirited.” If you can’t handle the heat, Pat, stay out of the kitchen.
2. After you criticize me for name-calling, you start calling me names (pathetic, crazy thugs, etc.). So it’s OK for liberals to call conservatives names, but not the other way around. Pat, that makes you a hypocrite. Well, maybe I misspoke there. Being a liberal makes you a hypocrite; everything that follows just falls under the category of “act naturally.”
3. You tell me that I have no right to support Bush’s war policy unless I am willing to sign up and go to the war. I happen to be 46 years old, so that’s impossible, but let’s pretend for a moment that I am actually 22 and perfectly capable of volunteering. If I was 22, and I didn’t want to volunteer, would that disqualify me from supporting the war? Absolutely not. You see, Pat, here in the U.S. we have this thing called a Constitution. Maybe you have heard of it. That Constitution has what’s called a 1st Amendment that guarantees me freedom of speech. I know that freedom of speech is a concept that liberals oppose, but it’s something that conservatives absolutely treasure. That freedom of speech gives me the right to speak the truth to liberal liars like yourself, on a blog that should be called Untruthdig. Besides, you can’t believe how much fun it is for me to read your responses, Pat, and imagine you spitting and cussing and foaming at the mouth. You amuse me!
4. Now the amusement is over. You absolutely pissed me off by characterizing our military as a bunch of high school kids, and out of work moms and dads. Pat, you ignorant slut! You live your life, basking in the glow from the blessings of liberty secured through the blood, sweat, tears and lives of the brave men and women of our armed forces, and then you DARE to insult them. The 1st Amendment gives you the right to do that, but it also gives me the right to repudiate you. Take a look at the following:
It will give you some facts about the quality of person who volunteers to fight for the freedoms that you take advantage of.
5. Now, back to the original point of Robert Scheer’s column. I know that you don’t want to discuss that; nobody on this site will debate me on the merits of that column. I’ll give it one more try. Robert Scheer tried to ridicule our Commander-In-Chief because of some off the cuff, small talk kind of remarks that Pres. Bush made. My response? Who cares! Pres. Bush is competent enough at his job that he has kept America safe, and America’s interests safe, from terrorist attack ever since 9/11. That’s a much better record than the Sex Offender-In-Chief had during the 1990’s. Of course, it’s much easier to pay attention to little details like terrorists who want to kill us when you aren’t preoccupied with where your next blowjob is coming from!
Pat, I’m not going anywhere. I will continue to speak the conservative truth on this blog all the way through the 2006 elections. The only way I will stop is if the Dems recapture control of either house (that’s a promise I made in a previous post). I don’t anticipate that happening, so my plan is to continue with my comments up to the 2008 election! Have a ggod day!

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By Pat, August 4, 2006 at 11:00 am Link to this comment
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It has finally become clear to me…This blog has nothing to do with discussing this or any other article of actual “news”. It has devolved into “Hondo’s” personal name calling rant corner. Anyone who doesn’t see things “according to Hondo” is ignorant, illiterate, and nuts.

Hondo, if you really believe all the crap you continually spout, you are pathetic! The world does not revolve around Saint George and his gang of neo-con war crazy thugs. Nor does it revolve only around you and your personal opinion of everyone who doesn’t happen to agree with your world view.

If you can’t say anything constructive why don’t you just shut up and go somewhere where there are people who believe like you do. Why do you insist on hanging around people you claim are the “insane…Cracked Nut Brigade”, on a site you feel is spouting errors and lies? Go preach to your own choir.

Better yet, (as I said once before) since you believe Georgie’s policies are so good and are saving the world from terrorists rather than creating new ones, why don’t you put your money where your mouth is and go sign up to “fight over there so we won’t have to fight over here”. I hear George’s friends are having trouble getting more high school kids and out of work moms and dads to sign up as cannon fodder. Surely someone as ‘convinced’ as you has the courage of your convictions! Or are you just a bag of piss and wind who doens’t have enough guts to do anything more than sound off with your mouth but not with your actions?

Where were you during all the conflicts America has taken part in? Did you hang out with Georgie in the National Guard or did you just hide from the recruiters under a chair in your own living room? If you like Bush’s policies so much, support him with your actions instead of with your mouth!

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By Hondo, August 4, 2006 at 9:40 am Link to this comment
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To Mad as Hell—You, sir, are insane. “King George” is going to suspend the 2008 election, personally “shut you up”, and institute a facist dictatorship? Wow! I knew going in that there were a lot of crazy people here at truthdig, but you win the golden straitjacket! Do you tape aluminum foil to your bedroom windows so that FOX News and George Bush don’t monitor your brainwaves? Just curious.
Let’s try some facts, Mr. Cuckoo’s Nest. Not one of Pres. Bush’s national security programs has been ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. After all of the weeping and gnashing of teeth, your liberal Democrats voted with the GOP to renew the Patriot Act. Electing Pres. Bush (twice) has allowed the U.S. to suffer only one terrorist attack on U.S. soil or against an American target abroad, as compared to the carnage of the 1990’s (if you need any help refreshing your memory, just ask and we’ll compare lists). Do you ever wonder why Democrats can’t win major elections anymore? It’s because the Democrat party has been hijacked by The Cracked Nut Brigade, and you, sir, are the Head Nut!

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By Mad as Hell, August 2, 2006 at 7:02 am Link to this comment
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You are right.  I MUST be “Crazy as Hell” to argue with someone with such congitive dissonance.

I have not seen you present ONE fact that is verifiable by ANYTHING but your favorite right-wingnut sources.

Sorry.  Quoting Fox/Pravda and Nazi-Anne Coulter and other similar low quality sources, while denouncing anything and everything reputable is neither “proof” nor “fact”.  It’s nice to say that if it’s in the New York Times or the Washington Post or on CNN it must be a lie, but that simply is a mark of being delusional.

Which you are. 

But don’t worry.  If Mad King George keeps going the way he’s going, he’ll find an excuse to suspend the 2008 elections, I’ll be FORCIBLY shut up, and you’ll either be deliriously happy to be living in a true fascist dictatorship, or you’ll wake up and say “What have we done? But I didn’t know!”  and trust me, you won’t be forgiven.

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By Hondo, August 1, 2006 at 5:29 pm Link to this comment
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Pat—I’ll ask you the same questions I have asked others before you. Do you have difficulty with reading comprehension. Is the inability to comprehend simple English a liberal trait? I commented directly on the Robert Scheer column, the liberal toons yelled, screamed and changed the subject, and here we are. I would love to debate the merits of the Scheer column, but I find myself responding to off-the-topic rants from the cuckoo’s nest.

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By Pat, July 31, 2006 at 7:54 pm Link to this comment
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I happened to read this qoote tonight and immediately thought of you Hondo.

The dangerous patriot: “The one who drifts into chauvinism and exhibits blind enthusiasm for military actions. He is a defender of militarism and its ideals of war and glory. Chauvinism is a proud and bellicose form of patriotism . . . which identifies numerous enemies who can only be dealt with through military power and which equates the national honor with military victory.”: Marine Corps, Colonel James A. Donovan

It sure sounds just like you and your best friend George Bush, Hondo. Did Georgie hire you as his personal cheering section and to promote all his bananna-brained BS about how he’s trying to free the world of terrorists? Or do you just spout your nonsense to irritate people.

I’ve yet to read a single posting of yours that is anything but a bunch of rambling personal rants against anyone who happens to have a different opinion than you, mixed in with a few quotes from some of the neo-con-artists you apparently hero-worship.

Ok…we get it….you like George Bush. Now give it a rest…....Please!!! Other people are as entitled to their opinions as you are to yours, so if you have nothing constructive to say regarding the actual article “What Bush’s Open Mike Revealed” then pleeeeeeese take your rants elsewhere.

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By Hondo, July 31, 2006 at 2:15 pm Link to this comment
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Mad as Hell should rename himself “Crazy as Hell”! You continually confuse fact with fiction, which of course is a trait of the insane. You may not like the facts that I have presented here. These facts may make you uncomfortable. That doesn’t change the fact that they are indeed facts. I have presented facts refuting your idiotic claims; facts which come from sources other than the lunatic liberal blogosphere. My facts come from easily verifiable sources. Of course you never respond directly to my facts. You ignore my facts, throw more lies in my direction, and congratulate yourself on what a smart fellow you are. The lunatic fringe of the secular progressive movement never ceases to amaze me!

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By Mad As Hell, July 29, 2006 at 4:10 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“Not one of these wingnuts ever responded directly to my comments.”

Yet another lie by Hondo. I, and others have dismantled WITH FACTS each and every one of your parrotted talking points.

The fact that you refuse to listen or acknowledge that your arguments have been addressed and countered is simply a symptom of your own congnitive dissonance.

That means: You don’t like what you see so your brain blanks it out and says it doesn’t exist.  Yet everyone reading your comments and the responses, everyone but you, can see that your points have been addressed, and demolished.

Here’s what reading your posts is like (remember this is an analogy):

Hondo—“It’s raining green cheese over NY,NJ and Ct.”
M.A.H.—“No, It’s not. I’m here in the NY, NJ and Ct. area and it’s raining ordinary water.  Here are pictures and here is a news blog on it.”

Hondo—“M.A.H. How come you won’t respond to my valid points? How come you traitorous liberals never can respond to my points?”

M.A.H.—“But I AM responding, I can SEE the rain out my window, it’s not green cheese. I was just out in it 2 minutes ago and got wet!”

Hondo—“All you lefty commies are destroying the country, and the main stream media is helping you to pretend there is no green cheese raining in the NY, NJ, CT area. That’s why you are helping the terrorists.”

M.A.H—(in exasperation)“Hondo, you are hopelessly deranged.”

Hondo-“AHA!  All you Marxists do is call me names. You can’t refute any of my facts!”

And on and on and on it goes. While this was an exaggerated, invented, fictional discussion, it was EXACTLY like real arguments with you.

Arguing with your cognitive dissonance is pointless.

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By Bukko in Australia, July 29, 2006 at 12:11 am Link to this comment
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Sayeth George: I’m almost ashamed that I’ve wasted the past couple of minutes writing a response to you.

Heya mate, don’t be ashamed that you’ve wasted a couple of minutes. I feel sorry for Kibble and others who have taken time to write well-reasoned rebuttals to a deaf person. Better to channel that energy into actual work like putting up political posters, attending activist meetings
in the real world or volunteering to be a poll watcher at the local elections board so the Repigs don’t steal another one.

And take a moment of pity for Hondo. This board is the only socialisation he gets. Here’s a guy with a wife and three kids who spends HOURS banging away at the keyboard instead of being with his family. But they just don’t care what he’s up to. My wife NEVER lets me waste time wanking on blogs at home because she wants to spend that time with me. (Lucky thing that work in my Aussie hospital is so slow that I can do this. Cheers for their high-speed connexion, too!) So talking back to Hondo makes him feel important, like people are actually taking notice of him. I’m sure he wakes up at night with his pulse racing, thinking of how he’s going tom answer back to those treasonous liberals. It’s what Ann Coulter’s book about “How to Talk to a Liberal (if you really must)” told him to do.

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By Pat, July 28, 2006 at 7:46 pm Link to this comment
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Bravo George (#15685). I was going to say exactly the same thing to “Hondo” earlier today but I figured it would only feed his need to argue.

In relation to R. Sheer’s comments about Bush and his perpetual foot in mouth conversations and behavior - What amazes me is the American polls that claimed Bush received such high approval ratings from the American public re the Israel/Lebanon conflict in spite of his continual war mongering comments. There has to be something screwy about those poll figures. Either they are based on HOW the questions were worded (i.e. - to manipulate the results), or who was being polled (i.e. - choosing to poll those likely to be his supporters). One can only believe they’ve been manipulated as effectively as Bush’s last two elections.

I absolutely refuse to believe such an enormous percentage of the American Public could possibly be that deaf, dumb and blind to what is going on around the world at the instigation of Bush and his cabal of neo-con-artist cronies. Only those who get all their news from Fox could possibly believe Bush is a wise and just leader.

Only a totally heartless public could watch for the last few years as countless numbers of Iraq and Afghanistan innocents have died at the hands of ‘coalition forces’, while the Bush government says, “too bad…so sad…gotta break eggs if you want an omelet…and besides we don’t do body counts”. If the Bush cabal were any more callous you could scrub rocks smooth with their attitudes toward the innocent victims of their efforts at imperial expansion.

Only a totally heartless public could watch the same thing happening again in Lebanon and still willingly support the man who says one country has the right to defend itself by murdering hundreds of innocents and causing literally billions of dollars damage to another country, while claiming they are only trying to get at the few people they really want. I refuse to believe the majority of Americans are as callous as Madeline Albright who felt 500,000 children dead of American sanctions in Iraq was acceptable as long as the US achieved their desired regime change.

I have met countless Americans over my lifetime and am close friends with many. I’ve only met exactly one American in all those years who has that sort of attitude, so where are all these supposed Bush supporters coming from?

I don’t know what it will take to depose ‘king’ Georgie and replace him with someone with a heart and a brain but I pray it will happen soon before he totally destroys what’s left of America’s once great reputation.

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By John U., July 28, 2006 at 7:41 pm Link to this comment
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Re: Hondo 15594

You seem to be a specialist at statistics distorting while you promote RNC talking points.
Point #1—You claim the red states have such high SAT scores because conservatives are so smart. So I googled SAT scores by state, and at first glance, you almost seem right.  However when you factor in for example that a far higher percentage of blue state students actually took the exam as opposed to red states (Like 75% of students in New Jersey vs. 8% in Mississippi) than you can drive your Hummer through the gaping hole in your logic.  Look at the top 5 per capita income states: Connecticut, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Maryland, New Hampshire and you get the trend.
Point #2 The 2000 election—-Let’s faces, Bush was appointed by a 5-4 vote. I think both sides can bring up good information to prove their points… why not recount ALL the votes in Florida and see who actually won?
Point #3—The Economy——Just because the Forbes 400 or top 10% of the country is doing ok doesn’t mean everyone is.  The minimum wage is paying at 1950 levels (it would be over $9/hr if it were still at 1969 levels), 7 million have lost health insurance coverage since 2001, pensions are evaporating (except for the Forbes 400 class) and real take home inflation adjusted incomes for the bottom 80% have declined every year during this “Bush” boom. You make the ludicrous claim that the “deficit is down”...true but only from it’s Bush peak…and you conspicuously don’t mention how Clinton left a large surplus ($120 billion in fiscal year 2001 to be exact) which your beloved so-called conservatives had turned into a $400 billion deficit by 2004. And with everyone doing so well, how come bancrupcy filings are at or near all time highs? Your “bush” boom is completely built on a foundation of huge stimulating budget deficits (the reverse side of tax cuts)and fiscal irresponsibility….and lots not forget those extraordinary low 1% interest rates of 2003-2004 combined with the Fed goosing the money supply.  The only reason home ownership rates rose was because of subprime lending, and with housing values now declining we will see this segment of the population take a huge hit soon (just look at todays paltry 2.5% growth figure)....and let’s not forget at todays huge $296 billion budget deficit if we go into recession you won’t be able to cut taxes to stimulate the economy because incompetent team Bush has essentially destroyed fiscal policy through it’s recklessness.

Point #4   Iraq——It’s a moral, political and economic disaster for all involved….$400 billion down the drain. Perhaps you should check out that Republican congressman from Minnesota (who’s name I can’t remember) who has supported this war until he just got back….and actually told the truth for once…....that Iraq is even worse than what most liberals think

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By Hondo, July 28, 2006 at 6:32 pm Link to this comment
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Reply to George, Comment #15685—Do you have difficulty with reading comprehension? Is English a second, somewhat unfamiliar language for you? Please direct your eyes to comment #14424 where I respond directly to the subject matter of Robert “The Great Liar” Scheer’s column. Then read the subsequent posts from all of your wacky liberal friends. Not one of these wingnuts ever responded directly to my comments. They called me names, changed the subject, and tried to scare me off. I have then responded to their posts. The minute one of these left wing bananas responds directly to my original post, I will respond to them and we will be back on track. Here’s a little friendly advice, son. Know your facts before you try to get in my space.

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By George, July 28, 2006 at 5:31 pm Link to this comment
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Hondo, a couple of things:  First and foremost, over the past week or two that you have been submitting posts for this report I have seen you say nothing about Mr. Scheer’s report itself.  Have you no capability of analytical thought, or are you only capable or regurgitating the trash you hear on AM hate radio?  You flourish on a completely selfish motive that you believe your spreading “truth”.  Furthermore, your language is so laced with imprudent labels that if they were all taken out of your posts there would be nothing left. You and people like you are the reason there is hate in the world.  I’m almost ashamed that I’ve wasted the past couple of minutes writing a response to you.

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By Hondo, July 28, 2006 at 7:03 am Link to this comment
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Bukko, as usual, has offered a “Fractured Fairy Tale” version of the truth in his latest post. My ego gets nothing from me posting my comments in “enemy territory”, any more than the NBA All-Stars would get ego-gratification from a pickup game with a bunch of high schoolers. Conservative truth is far superior intellectually to left wing fantasy. My only satisfaction comes from seeing the truth displayed on a blog that was created by a liar (a man too dishonest for even the LA Times!) and dedicated to the spreading of lies.
Now would be a good time to summarize the results, for those keeping score at home.
1. Liberal liars say that they are inherently smarter than conservatives. I have refuted that lie with actual SAT score rankings showing that red states outperform blue states. Look it up for yourself.
2. Liberal liars continue to bleat about the “stolen elections” of 2000 and 2004. I have presented evidence showing that those elections were not stolen and that George Bush honestly beat the hell out of Kerry, and narrowly but honestly beat “Broken Thermometer” Gore. Did you know that the U.S. Civil Rights Commission investigated the 2000 election results in Florida in Jan. 2001? Eight people serve on the Commission; 6 of them were Democrats. Here is a summary of their findings:
—-No evidence was found that any voter was ever harrassed, intimidated, or prevented from voting.
—-No evidence was ever found of systematic disenfranchisement of Black voters.
—-In 24 of the 25 counties with the highest percentage of non-voted ballots for president, the county supervisor was a Democrat. The supervisor in the 25th county was an Independent.
—-Ballot spoilage was 14% higher in counties were the election supervisor was a Democrat. It was 31% higher when the supervisor was Black. The infamous butterfly ballots of Palm Beach County? A creation of the Democrat Party.
—-16 Florida counties had higher ballot spoilage rates than Palm beach County, but Gore didn’t want them recounted. Why? they were GOP counties.
—-Gore threatened legal action to keep absentee ballots from military personnel from being counted. Why would Gore want to disenfranchise soldiers and sailors? Because they vote overwhelmingly for the GOP. Gore should have been imprisoned for trying to steal the 2000 election! Thank God for the 3 conservatives and the 2 moderates (in other words, all but the 4 liberal wing nuts!) on the Supreme Court who put Gore’s criminal enterprise on ice.
As for the 2004 election, here is a partial list of people/organizations who investigated and found no evidence of the GOP “stealing the election:
—-The NY Times
—-The Democrat Party
—-Karen Tumulty, Time Magazine
—-Mark Jurkowitz, The Boston Globe
—-John Kerry (he conceded defeat, and only later flip-flopped in a pathetic attempt to curry favor with the left wing bananas who still believe in aliens)
Bottom line—-We won, you lost, get over it!
Bottom Line II—-We will win again in 2006 and 2008, and crazy liberals will again say they were cheated.
3. Liberal liars continue to say that Iraq is worse off now than they were before the invasion. There is a mountain of evidence showing how false that is, but let’s focus on the most important state of all.
—-Pre-invasion, more than 1 million Iraqis died a violent death under the Saddam regime. That averages out to about 50,000 per year, and does not include the thousands upon thousands who were killed by the UN food for oil criminal conspiracy.
—-Post-invasion, the violent deaths at the hands of the Saddam regime have stopped, and so have the deaths at the hands of “Kofi the Butcher.” Replacing those numbers are the approximately 6800 deaths per year of Iraqi citizens due to the war. Liberals say that Iraq is not better off today? You people are nuttier than sqirrel turds!
4. Liberal liars say that the U.S. economy is in the toilet due to the Bush tax cuts. I have presented hard, cold facts (look them up for yourself) to show that government revenue is up, the deficit is down, home ownership is way up (especially for minorities), unemployment is way down, black ownership of business is at an all time high, and the economy is humming along at levels we haven’t seen in decades.
What is the matter with you people? Are you so blinded with hate for the majority of Americans who disagree with your Marxist, secular progressive agenda that you are willing to wreck the U.S.A. just to regain power? Are you so opposed to the vision of our Founding Fathers that you are willing to destroy everything they stood for just to hurt Bush? You people are insane, and you make me sick!

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By Bukko in Australia, July 27, 2006 at 9:32 pm Link to this comment
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How are you going Kibble? Nice to see comments from another psych nurse. I used to do that, but I work respiratory now. Ah, Prolixin Decanoate… I preferred Haldol 5 mg with Ativan 1 mg IM for the ravers myself. Much quicker!

You’re right about how to deal with delusionals. Let them rant. You can’t use logic on an irrational person, because by by definition, they’re beyond “reason.”

As for why someone would persist in a forum contrary to their views, don’t overlook ego. Face it, a big motivation for why we post is to show off our own intellects. “Hey everybody, look at how smart I am!” And in general, liberals are smarter than conservatives. What’s sad is when someone THINKS they’re smart, but doesn’t have a clue how clueless they are. I tend to pity those “short bus” types.

It’s gotta be hard to be in denial about EVERYTHING. No global warming, we haven’t lost the war in Iraq, George Bush is a genius, we have always been at war with Eastasia, Freedom is Slavery… It’s a good thing these people are not able to deeply analyse what they believe. If they did, the contradictions would make their heads explode.

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By Hondo, July 27, 2006 at 6:16 am Link to this comment
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Kibbles and Bits—Just a quick note to correct one very minor point. I’m not particularly a John Wayne fan. I am, however, a big fan of John “Hondo” Havlicek, who played for the Boston Celtics during the 60’s and 70’s. He was one of 2 sports heroes I had growing up. The other was Tony Perez of the Big Red Machine in Cincy. Both embodied characteristics that I admire: going about your business the “right way”, remain focused on the goal, help your fellow man in ways that make a difference, be a good teammate, get the job done. Naturally, all are conservative characteristics!

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By paul kibble, July 26, 2006 at 1:26 pm Link to this comment
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Re: Mad as Hell (Comment #15231): You’re right, of course. Continuing to prod this poor, wounded, foaming-at-all orifices beast with a sharp stick is cruel and unusual punishment,  especially since rigid, humorless authoritarians with delusions of (as I said) adequacy tend implode all on their own anyway. So, yes, we should just sit back and let nature take its inevitable course. 

As I noted, Hondo embodies perfectly what Richard Hofstadter calls “The Paranoid Style in American Politics,” especially in terms of what our friend likes to call “cold, hard facts.”  (They are, of course, warm, malleable clay, selectively culled and tendentiously interpreted bits of info that can be molded to fit his preconceived notion of the truth.)

Of course, he couldn’t respond to (borrowing his fetish phrase)the “cold, hard facts”

—-about the reasons that even Republicans are jumping ship on the administration’s rosey Iraq policy (things in Baghdad are “terrible”—-quote Bush 7/25/06—-even though “the insurgency is winding down,” quoth Dickey). So Bush’s cowboyism has gone from “They’ll welcome us as liberators!” to the “terrible” situation in Iraq, which his war planners now sheepishly call “Plan B.” Wow, a resounding success for our kill-‘em-all foreign policy!

—-about why high-profile Repub candidates like Blackwell and Harris are trailing in the polls.

—-about flip-flopper Bush’s about-face on global warming (in its current version a paraphrase of whacko Bob K Jr’s statements on the environmental impact of CO2 emissions).

—-about the support of evangelicals for initiatives to reduce global warming.

—-about why so many of those 63 mil who voted for Bush have now put his ratings in the toilet.

—-about why it’s OK for nominal Good Christians(for whom marriage is supposedly an inviolable sacrament) to get a little on the side (even with barnyard animals—-a felony, by the way) but not Billy-boy Clinton, who was impeached for obstruction of justice, not having consensual sex with Monica.

—-about those “found” WMD’s (which we sold to then-ally Iraq some 20 years ago) that, the Defense Department admitted, were not WMD’s we supposedly invaded Iraq to discover (like cap guns as opposed to AK-47’s).

—-about how every intelligence official now admits that the “cooperative relationship” between Saddam’s secular regime and Osama’s Islamic fundamentalist terrorists never existed (sorry, no training camps).

—-about the AP report (a wingnut lefty source) indicating that a complete recount of the votes would have given Gore the 2000 election, etc.

The list goes on. And on. And on. But if your brain resembled, as Hondo’s does, a lump of moldy Swiss cheese, would you be able to track even the simplest point? Like most psychotics, Hondo (hiding behind his pathetic 10-year-old-boy John Wayneish moniker—-oooo, what a stud!) fantasizes that he has an exclusive patent on the truth when, of course, he hasn’t been on speaking terms with reality since that metal plate was installed in this vet’s head after that grenade went off. (Ah, the legacy of Vietnam. . .)

Hondo, in fact, reminds me of a delusional patient—-I’ll call him Jeff—whom I had occasion to treat years ago. He was housed on Unit B, the ward of the hospital reserved for violent psychotics. Hospital staff new to the ward would fall into the trap of trying to “reason,” with Jeff, “reorient him to reality,” etc.

These attempts invariably failed because, you see, it was WE, not Jeff, who were sick, we were the “nutjobs” who had “lost it.” (Note Hondo’s reference to One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest—-bet he’s seen that particular bird more than once.) We were all agents of the international Commie conspiracy and we might be able to fool others but not, by God, Jeff.

The more staff tried to present Jeff with “the cold, hard facts,” the more agitated he’d become, until the session would culminate with his screaming, “You can all go fuck yourselves! I know I’m right. God said I’m right! No one can shut me up!”

One day, the Chief of Staff took us aside and said, “Listen, when you argue with him like this, all you do is reinforce his pathology. The best thing to do is let him rant, just nod and say, ‘OK, Jeff, you’re right.’ And if he becomes too disruptive, put him in isolation, bring out the restraints and, if necessary, give him a shot of Prolixin.”

I suspect that our friend Hondo has a history similar to Jeff’s, or, at least, similar to our Prez’s—-a history of substance abuse followed by a “life-changing” decision for Christ, and also, as a Viet vet—-unlike AWOL Georgie—-experience with PTSD. Certainly he has some of the classic features for certain psychoses as described in DSM-IV: the obsessive repetition of fixed ideas, the ritualistic speech, the substitution of reality with an impregnable belief system, the attack-the-enemy-and-wipe-‘em-out apocalyptic dreams, the quasi-religious delusion that his fantasies of absolute righteousness are God-inspired, etc.

The interesting question is why Hondo would spend so much time using a leftish forum as a Hyde Park platform from which to screech and flail around his certifiably bizarre little crotchets.

Let’s be honest: most blogs, left or right, are preaching to their chosen choirs. If you really have ideas to share, then you normally want to share them with your ideological allies. You may briefly want to play the gadfly on, say, Little Green Footballs (right) or The Huffington Report (left), debate this or that issue, but deep down you know that you’re not going to bring anyone into your camp. After a time, you therefore move on and consolidate members of your own (as Georgie would say) base through the civilized exchange of ideas and experiences. 

That is, unless you’re a sad, lonely, essentially powerless and seriously disturbed loser who’s gonna show the world that, by God, you may have fucked up your life but you can always make up for that hard, cold fact by revenging yourself against your “enemies” out there in cyberspace. Then your “mission” becomes to rail against the infidels in hopes of scoring somec dim Pyrrhic victory. Well, gamers like to play virtual war, too.

So Mad as Hell, what we should do is follow the example suggested by the Chief of Staff of that hospital: don’t reinforce Hondo’s pathology by pretending you can have a reasonable debate with him. The depth of his illness is unreachable by conventional therapy. Since we can’t put him in isolation {“I’m not going anywhere”), let him go on screaming himself hoarse in his padded cell, in search of his “Lieberman-in-the-rough.” 

Or maybe he is reachable. Re his powers of persuasion, he did say one thing that suggests he briefly brushed up against reality: “I’m not that good!”

Well, for once he got it right.

P.S.: My admittedly colorful invective, which Hondo finds just so naughty-poo because of its Rabelaisian exuberance and, well, because it alludes to sex (which makes twice-borners hysterical), was not(as you might think) based on my channeling Lenny Bruce or even Howard Stern (yet another former supporter of the Dubster who’s since dumped him).

Why, no, I took my cues from none other than. . .Ann Coulter, that model of rhetorical restraint: Pamela Harriman is a “whore,” Bill Clinton should either be “impeached or assasinated,” Justice Stevens should have poison put in his creme brulee, Gloria Steinem is a “termagant” who “had to sleep” with a rich liberal to fund Ms. magazine, and—-per her chat with Donnie Deutsch last night (7/25/06) on “The Big Idea”—-Bill Clinton is “a latent homosexual” (just as, of course, Hilary is a closet Lesbian).

Of course, like me and Kenny Starr, Ann is naturally prurient about other people’s sex lives, but this last bit about Slick Willie’s willy is an odd charge coming from a mid-40ish, childless she-male who’s never found the right, or Right, partner of either sex with which to consummate holy matrimony. But Relationship Expert Annie apparently also has the inside dope on the real motives behind Bill’s tomcattery.

Yet since many, many American men—-Dems or Repubs, Libs or Conservs, Christians, Jews, or nonbelievers—have violated their pledges of fidelity, I guess that means the country’s filled with secret same-sexers. So much for preserving Family Values. No wonder the fundies are so desperate to pass that Defense of Marriage Act in Congress. They can’t keep their hands off their own kind. They’re probably hoping the law will do it for them. Hey, Prohibition worked, right?

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By Mad as Hell, July 26, 2006 at 11:41 am Link to this comment
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“Good bye for now. I’m not going anywhere!”—Hondo.

Perfect! That’s right, Hondo, you are going nowhere—except maybe around and around again in the same circle.

Stop throwing around words like Marxism.  It’s clear from your context you haven’t a clue what Marxism is—to you, it’s just anyone who isn’t a right-wingnut fascist. 

You claim to be a Christian—but if you examine Jesus’ words you’ll find HIM to be, by your definition, a Marxist too.

I said it before: Facts and logic mean nothing to you. You just toss out the same old rant you did before and ignore EVERYTHING that contradicts you, even proves you are spouting crap and lies.

Kibble is wasting his time on you. I won’t argue with someone who won’t accept facts and logic, who doesn’t even understand the concept of a premise and logic.

Ayn Rand wrote “By the very nature of existence, contradictions cannot exist.  When you find one, check your premises. One of them will be in error.”

Everything about your “arguments” are contradictory, Hondo.  That’s why they are arguments, just a bad recycled schpiel the you repeat over and over and over and over and over and over and over…...and over.

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By Pat, July 26, 2006 at 11:13 am Link to this comment
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Hondo…If you believe so strongly that what’s taking place in Iraq at the direct orders of your bosom buddy Bush is a good and right thing to do, why then do you not support his actions by packing up your family and moving over there! Put your money where your mouth is. Or are you all mouth and no action? Are you just an armchair pussy who likes to watch all the killing but pees his pants if it actually comes near his own family?

Feel free to go over there and breathe in some of that DU laden air. Go taste and enjoy the bullets and bombs being so generously donated to the Iraqi people by Bush & Co, instead of the peace and prosperity the Bush Cabal promised. Expose yourself and your own family to some of Burning Bush’s liberation efforts.

Experience first-hand your door being busted down in the middle of the night and your family being terrorized. Watch your children sob in terror as every male in your family over the age of ten are beaten and murdered by their liberators. Enjoy the view as your sister is raped and then murdered by her liberators. Experience the thrill of trying to find work that no longer exists, food and clean water that can no longer be found or purchased, only to come home and find your home is now rubble and your family is missing or dead of white phosphorus or DU induced cancer.

Of course your friends in Washington can’t cut and run from Iraq yet! How foolish of us peacenicks to believe the Iraqi civilians have been beaten and tortured enough by America’s big brave soldiers and their bombs and bullets, batons and dogs! Your friends haven’t reached even half a million innocent dead victims yet. After all Madeline Albright said 500,000 dead Iraqi children was a small price to pay to bring freedom to the Iraqi people over the previous ten years before this latest liberation effort, so I guess it’s ok for the Shrub to feel the same way about his version of Iraqi liberation.

But then your friend Bush is sure working hard on freeing them over there isn’t he. He’s doing a great job. He just forgot to mention that his version of freeing people means freeing them from living. After all once you’re dead you’re definitely free of any further oppression, right!

Maybe you can convince the Iraqi people of your personal views on liberal, republican, conservative, WHATEVER, beliefs since you sure are NOT convincing anyone here that anything you say makes sense. Personally I think you just love the sound of your own yakking so much you want the rest of the world to enjoy your mental musings too. Personally I think you’ve been smoking too much wacky tobacco and you make no sense because your brain is fried.

And by the way…if you really believe this blog is ...“mindless Marxism so prevalent on this blog”... and dumb and uninformed, why are you constantly posting to it? Why are you wasting yours and everyone else’s time constantly telling the rest of us we don’t have a clue unlilke you, who believes you arer totally informed on what’s true and what isn’t? Go hang out with Bill O’Reilly or Ann Coulter. I think you three would really get along.

Mad as Hell, you are absolutely right. Trying to access the brain of the brain-dead is definitely like trying to teach a pig to sing.

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By Hondo, July 26, 2006 at 7:37 am Link to this comment
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Mr. Kibbles and Bits—- I’ve noticed a disturbing pattern with you. Everytime I answer one of your lying diatribes with hard, cold facts, you respond with ever increasing amounts of profanity and an escalating level of pretty sick sexual content. We have arrived at another teachable moment. When liberals find themselves losing a debate due to the facts not being on their side, they immediately start screaming louder (I can practically see the spit flying from your dirty little mouth) and they attempt to stifle the debate with charges of racism, personal attacks, etc. “If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with B.S.” seems to be the standard liberal strategy. If the conservative gives you facts, respond by screaming and hope to scare him away. Repeat lies circulated by the radical left wing bananas on the crazy liberal blogs over and over again until they become part of your reality. You people are sick, but your sickness can’t overcome cold, hard facts, which are as follows:
1. The only people today who still believe that the 2000 and the 2004 election were fixed are crazy people, such as you (as evidenced by your hysterical ranting) and RFK Jr. (By the way, Mr. Kibbles and Bits, in answer to your question—no, there is no difference between “causing” and “helping to cause.” Both phrases suggest that Bush is somehow responsible for hurricanes. Don’t preach to me about intelligence if you believe something as stupid as that!)
2. The only people in America who believe that we should cut and run from Iraq are the fringe liberal wingnuts who scream so hysterically on the lefty blogs. How do I know that to be true? Because Congressional Democrats have been given two chances to vote in favor of immediate withdrawal, and they have declined both times. I would think that we all could agree that politicians from all parts of the political spectrum pander a great deal to the voters. If the lefty bananas were telling the truth, and a majority of Americans wanted to cut and run, then the Dems would have voted that way. They didn’t, which tells me that you are no more connected to reality than, oh, say, a delusional member of the Kennedy clan. The truth is that a majority of Americans want the job finished in Iraq. Many Americans disagree with the overall strategy in Iraq, but there’s not much disagreement about finishing the job. Except among liberal traitors.
3. Liberals love to draw parallels between run-of-the-mill adultery (immoral for sure, but not illegal) and the sex crimes committed by Clinton (immoral AND illegal). Rape is a crime. So is getting a blow job in the Oval Office from a White House intern (made illegal by sexual harrassment legislation signed into law by the Sex Offender-In-Chief himself). It’s also illegal to lie under oath, no matter how much you don’t like the question. So don’t use that tired, old liberal strategy of confusing the issue with sleight of hand (Pay no attention to the felon in the Oval Office! Look at these law abiding citizens over here!)
4. One final thought. So many of you have gotten so jacked up about the deaths of terrorists, and the deaths of the innocent civilians at the hands of the terrorists. You have tried to make this the fault of the U.S. Most Americans don’t buy into that. Left wing wackos, the liberal politicians who pander to them, and their willing accomplices in the main stream media have been singing that same old song for 3 years. In 2004, America was offered a choice. Choice A was a man who promised to change course in the war on terror, to stop the fighting, to line up with France and Germany as we sought to “understand” the “root causes” of terrorism and to fight a “more sensitive war.” Choice B was a man who said that the terrorists must be killed for America to be safe. He said that the time for talk was over, and it was now time to fight for freedom. He said that negotiating with terrorists was pointless, and that he would do whatever it took to destroy the terrorist threat. America went to the polls and 63 million voted for W. (Quiet down, Mr. Kennedy. We heard you about ‘cheating.’ We also heard you about hurricanes made at the White House and exported to the Gulf. If you don’t quiet down, we’ll have Nurse Ratchet sedate you!)
For those of you who have a brain (that excludes you, Mr. Kibbles and Bits), do yourselves a favor. Get on the Internet (and I don’t mean the liberal blogosphere!) and check out actual news reports to verify what I have said. The truth is there, for all who sincerely want to see it. My goal is to change 1 person’s mind, and to convert them away from the mindless Marxism so prevalent on this blog. I have no illusions about converting anyone to conservatism; I’m not that good! But I would be pleased if I could find one “Lieberman-in the rough” out there.
Good bye for now. I’m not going anywhere!

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By Mad As Hell, July 25, 2006 at 6:54 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Why do you spend SO much energy on Hondo?  You’re trying to teach a pig to sing.

If you argue with a fool (even a fascist one like Hondo), what does that make you?

Hondo doesn’t care about your arguments, your facts, your sources.  He’s not listening or reading what you say.  He’s just waiting to pounce with his latest version and twist of the same old, same old fox/pravda agitprop.

When you (seriously) argue with Hondo, you are just pissing in the wind, my friend.

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By John U., July 25, 2006 at 6:36 pm Link to this comment
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Bush is a fool (and a malevolent one at that)....Iraq is the biggest foreign policy failure we have ever had…..worse than Vietnam because Vietnam didn’t contaminate the whole world the way Iraq has. The Israel-Lebanon situation shows just how impotent Bush and Condi are.  The book “Bush on the Couch” should be a good read right now… pretty much points out how twisted and weak his mind is…..and open to any suggestion by Cheney or Rove

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By paul kibble, July 25, 2006 at 3:07 pm Link to this comment
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Thanks for enriching my coffers (albeit modestly), Bro! I bet one of my conservative friends (unlike you, a Republican who in a moment of sanity dumped the Dubster) that your exercise in faith-based cretinism couldn’t offer any substantive rebuttal as to why even many of Bush’s conservative supporters—-congresspersons, pundits, and the public—-no longer back their boy on the Iran disaster. THEY (your FORMER allies such as Congessman Gil Gutknecht, Tucker Carlson and the other talking heads, and the disillusioned Bushites reflected in those subterranean poll #’s)  said all those “treasonous” things, not me. And guess what, on your part, THE REST IS SILENCE, just like that fag Hamlet said.

Oh yes, they all must have yielded to a “tragic tendency” to give in to reality, er, the hypocrisy and lies of the liberal commie nutjob moonbat feminazi leftie conspiracy. But wait: I thought you guys had more balls than us, based on a philosophy of Ubermensch, I mean, superior morality. Guess when the chips are down, your defectors cut and ran. Anyway, welcome, Mr. Gutknecht et. al., to the detox unit for recovering Righties.

(Note: Iraq civilian casualties are now at their highest since that start of the war. But, yes, Dicky-boy, the insurgency is in its last throes!)

1. “Invincible ignorance” (thanks, John Gregory Dunne) strikes again on the 2000/2004 elections. As usual, if the data fit your preconceived notion of the truth, it’s acceptable; if it doesn’t, nada. I presented my evidence, but since rebutting it requires something well beyond your capacities—-namely, thinking—- you responded with your cast-in-concrete sound bites. (If you were bound by the rules of an actual debate before a live audience, where premises and evidence are subjected to close scrutiny by your opponent, you’d be laughed off the stage, as Coulter recently was by Frankin in a debate at the L.A. Amphitheater.)

Oh, it’s just that you don’t want to waste 15 minutes of what you loosely describe as your “life.” Since said “life” is already a toxic waste site for every psycho/Chrish-tee-un/Republican pile of bullshit ever excreted by Coulter and her partners in crime, surely one more small addition won’t matter.

And of course, whenever our fundie friends get backed into a polemical corner, out come the Clinton clubs! Whack! Rapo!  Whack, whack! Adulter! Gosh, let’s see how these hypocritical fuckers hold up in the knockin’-boots morality department. And WATCH, folks, how Good Christian Hondo slimes his ways past these lapses (cuz, see,  he, um, doesn’t have the time) from his own team. (see

1. President George H.W. Bush allegedly had an LTR with British-born Jennifer Fitzgerald that lasted at least two decades, all while married to Bar, who said, “He didn’t even notice when I stopped coloring my hair.”

2. Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, famously married to Maria Shriver, is allegedly a serial groper, a purveyor of prostitutes and the father of at least one child out of wedlock.

3. Sen. John McCain, 2008 Republican presidential frontrunner, and admitted adulterer and alleged philanderer.

4. Rudolph Giuliani, former mayor of New York City and another GOP 2008 presidential contender, betrayed his second wife, TV presenter Donna Hanover, with his “very good friend” Judith Nathan, whom he has since married. Hanover also publicly accused Rudy of having an affair with a staffer, Cristyne Lategano-Nicholas.

5. Rush Limbaugh, comedian, (a.k.a. “Rusty Sharpe”) dated Marta Fitzgerald while she was married to someone else. Marta later became his third wife. (He and CNN’s Daryn Kagin recently stopped dating.)

6. Bill O’Reilly, propagandist, who is married to Maureen McPhilmy, tried to have phone sex with Andrea Mackris, who sued him for sexual harrassment.

7. Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, is probably the most audacious serial adulterer in any political party.

8. Former Rep. Bob Barr’s notoriety as an adulterer was one of many ironies around the so-called Defense of Marriage Act (DoMA) which he wrote, and which was passed with the leadership of fellow adulterers Sen. Majority Leader Bob Dole and House Speaker Newt Gingrich.

9. Rep. Henry Hyde, who served as chairman of House Mangers in the adultery-related impeachment of President Clinton, was a home-wrecker himself. Hyde had an affair when he was a young and foolish man of 41 while he and his girlfriend were both very much married. Her husband later said Hyde broke up his family.

10. Gary Bauer, professional moralizing Christian nationalist, experienced a mutiny when he was running for president when actual Christians on the staff of his 2000 presidential campaign quit in protest over Bauer’s “inappropriate” behavior with a 26-year-old deputy campaign manager. Euww

11. A definite top 10 contender is the Wall Street Journal’s John Fund, a sanctimonius Clinton-hater, who, as reader TL reminds us, “[Apparently] had a fling with the DAUGHTER of someone he was having an affair with and then arranged for (or at least condoned) the abortion of their child.”

And my personal favorite, yet another Good Christian of the Hondo stripe:

12.  Neal Horsley, and rightwing religious nut, freely admitted to a kinky sex life, including this outrageous exchange on Fox’s Hannity & Colmes:

AC: “You had sex with animals?”
NH: “Absolutely. I was a fool. When you grow up on a farm in Georgia, your first girlfriend is a mule.”
AC: “I’m not so sure that that is so.”
NH: “You didn’t grow up on a farm in Georgia, did you?”
AC: “Are you suggesting that everybody who grows up on a farm in Georgia has a mule as a girlfriend?”
NH: It has historically been the case. You people are so far removed from the reality… Welcome to domestic life on the farm…”

As for Rapo/Adulterer Slick Willie, would that be the same Bill Clinton whose popularity stayed in the 70-80 percentile range during the Lewinsky scandal, as opposed to the current occupant’s dismal showing in the poll?  Per MediaMatters/The Gallup Organization, a Fact, or FACT (to employ your helpful caps): “From the time that the Lewinsky story broke through the Senate’s February 1999 acquittal of Clinton on perjury and obstruction of justice charges, Clinton’s Gallup job approval rating NEVER dipped below 58 percent (a relative low he reached in a January 23-24, 1998, poll).”

“Clinton’s Gallup job approval ratings actually hit the high for his presidency during the Lewinsky matter, reaching 73 percent at the time of his December 19, 1998, impeachment by the House of Representatives (in a poll taken December 19-20, 1998) and reaching another relative peak of 70 percent in a February 9, 1999, poll, taken during Clinton’s trial in the Senate.”

God, how that infuriated the right! Guess the general public thinks lying about the reasons for invading Iraq and getting all these people killed is morally more important than lying about getting a blowjob from an intern. And Rapo Bill was indicted and convicted for his sex crimes, right (paging Annie Coulter—-again)?

Suck on that, Hondo.

2. As always, the only distortions occurring here are yours. I presented the full transcript of what Kennedy Actually wrote, but once it twisted through your pretzel-maker psyche, out comes “KENNEDY SAYS BUSH CAUSES KATRINA.” Hey, dumbfuck: there’s a little dif between causing and helping to cause.

Gee, since you “heard” Kennedy say those things with your very own ears, we’d have every reason to accept on faith take the accuracy of your little (un)intelligence reports. Tell you what, when I want news info/analysis from a brain-damaged, semiliterate halfwit who hasn’t had a coherent thought or reliable memory since he gave up booze for Jay-sus, you’ll be the first I call.

Note to dumbfuck: there’s a little dif between causing and helping to cause. Every event represents the resulte of a chain of prior events, but in the words of Francis Bacon (this here fancy-pants dead English guy), “It were infinite for the law to consider the causes of causes, and their impulsions one of another; therefore it contenteth itself with the immediate cause”. This immediate or effective cause, not necessarily that closest in time to the event, is termed the proximate cause. Katrina was the proximate cause of Katrina. Intervening causes were global warming.

Thanks for that rather touching display of intellectual insecurity, but the gentleman (sic) doth protest a little too much. I don’t give 2 hoots about my doctorates either (they were a means to an end), but your typical no-nothing response (them pointy-headed book-larnin’ types) betrays the anxiety of someone who was probably just this many IQ points from riding on the short bus back during your Skool Daze. I was obviously way too generous to assume you’d actually earned your G.E.D.—-special ed students don’t have to worry about that level of advancement, do they?

As for your vast “experience” (all of which could be tattooed on your 2-inch dick): that professor of yours had a better connection to reality than you did. I’m betting he was involved in some field of ethology, which explores links between animal models of behavior and their human counterparts.

Of course, I know why you really hated (and flunked) the course: it smacked of that fucking heretic Darwin. Man evolved from monkeys? Craziest goddam thing I ever done heard tell of! I love how the concepts of evolutionary biology/comparative zoology scare the shit out of you ignoramuses.

By the way, animal models are also used in medical research (my filed). And the late right-wing whackjob Robert Ardrey (The Territorial Imperative, The Social Contract, The Hunting Hypothesis,  Man and Aggression) used ethological studies to account for man’s inherent drive toward violence.

3. Who read my post to you? Did you dislocate your jaw trying to lip-read some them big fancy word? I never tried to portray O’Connor as a right-wing extremist. My exact words: “Of course, what you mean here by ‘rightly’ is ‘extreme conservatives,’ AS OPPOSED TO the moderate conservatives that O’Connor and Kennedy occasionally proved themselves to be. Kennedy and O’Connor frequently voted in the majority of 5-4 splits that characterized the Rehnquist court. But they sometimes succumbed to a ‘tragic tendency’ to let reason, fairness, and, yes, justice, take precedence over knee-jerk ideological commitments.”

The phrase “moderate conservatives that O’Connor and Kennedy occasionally proved to be” sure doesn’t sound like I’m typing her as an extremist, O Reading-with-Blinders. In fact, I have written an article (not a blog) praising her restraint in cases such as Planned Parenthood of Southeastern Pennsylvania v. Casey, Lawrence v. Texas, Gratz v. Bollinger,

Of course, none of this has anything to do with my main point, that given the remarks HER HUSBAND made re her feelings about Gore’s possible election and her resultant concern about her successor, she should have recused herself. You really can’t follow even gthe most elementary point, can you, pinhead?

Again, as I predicted, you didn’t dare address any of the issues that contributed to the 2000 election scandal: Harris’s conflicts of interest, those rioting “volunteers,” etc. Because you’re a bloated armchair bully who’d get his sagging ass kicked in a real throw down, those tactics are your idea of a fair fight.
Of course Gore “persisted” in asking for a recount—-and had his advisors insisted on counting the overvotes, he would have been ultimately vindicated.

As the AP report I cited (and of course you ignored) put it, “In a review of ALL the state’s disputed ballots, Gore edged ahead under all six scenarios for counting all undervotes and overvotes”—-i.e., counting hanging chads, dimpled chads,  the Palm beach dimpled “double” chads, partially or fully filled ovals on an optical scan, and accurately counted absentee ballots. That means he got more votes in Florida by almost every conceivable counting standard. By the way, even the very conservative columnist Charles Krauthammer conceded that hanging cha should be counted.

Funny, by the way, how you shriek about those 63 mil who voted for Bush in 2000 (and most of whom have given him a thumbs-down in the polls). Yet you don’t mention of the over 500,000 who gave Gore the plurality in 2000. What’s that bit of Holy Writ about whited sepulchers?. . .Oh, yeah.

4. On July 6, 2005, Georgie the Science Guy, succumbing to his “tragic tendency” to give in to the liberal whackos, acknowledged that human activity contributed to global warming. He recognized “that the surface of the Earth is warmer and that an increase in greenhouse gases is contributing to the problem.” Divine revelation—-or common sense?

Yes, Hondo, your capo di capi himself said much the same thing as Bobby K Jr—-those greenhouse gases were contributing to global warming. With me so far?

But wait! Isn’t this the same George Bush who a year earlier had denied there was such a phenom?  George, you flip-flopper! You bet:  he’d read a memo from Richard Lindzen, an oil whore—-that is,  “climate-skeptic” scientist—-who has consistently taken mucho $$$ from the fossil fuel boys.

But probably the most influential voice behind the memo was Frank Luntz, a Republican Party strategist. In a leaked 2002 memo, Luntz said: “THE SCIENTIFIC WINDOW IS CLOSING AGAINST US, but is not yet closed. There is still a window of opportunity to challenge the science.”
So Bring in Lindzen, Robert Balling, Roy Spencer and the other hos’s. (By the way Hondo, these guys are obviously “morons” since they have all thoie letters after their names).

Unfortunately. the science in question was clearly expressed in the reports of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). Created in 1988 by the World Meteorological Organization and the United Nations Environmental Programme, IPCC’s purpose is to evaluate the state of climate science as a basis for informed policy action, primarily on the basis of peer-reviewed and published scientific literature

In at recent assessment, IPCC stated unequivocally that the consensus of scientific opinion is that Earth’s climate is being affected by human activities: “Human activities ... are modifying the concentration of atmospheric constituents ... that absorb or scatter radiant energy. ... [M]OST OF THE OBSERVED WARMING OVER THE LAST 50 YEARSIS LIKELY TO HAVE BEEN DUE TO THE INCREASE IN GREENHOUSE GAS CONCENTRATIONS..” Still following, Hondo: that’s exactly the opinion that Georgie paraphrased in 2005..

IPCC is not alone in its conclusions. In recent years, all major scientific bodies in the United States whose members’ expertise bears directly on the matter have issued similar statements. For example, the National Academy of Sciences report, Climate Change Science: An Analysis of Some Key Questions, begins: “Greenhouse gases are accumulating in Earth’s atmosphere as a result of human activities, causing surface air temperatures and subsurface ocean temperatures to rise”

The report explicitly asks whether the IPCC assessment is a fair summary of professional scientific thinking, and answers yes: “The IPCC’s conclusion that most of the observed warming of the last 50 years is likely to have been due to the increase in greenhouse gas concentrations accurately reflects the current thinking of the scientific community on this issue.” The American Meteorological Society, the American Geophysical Union, and the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) all have issued statements in recent years concluding that the evidence for human modification of climate is compelling.
The 928 papers were divided into six categories: explicit endorsement of the consensus position, evaluation of impacts, mitigation proposals, methods, paleoclimate analysis, and rejection of the consensus position.

Of all the papers, 75% fell into the first three categories, either explicitly or implicitly accepting the consensus view; 25% dealt with methods or paleoclimate, taking no position on current anthropogenic climate change. NONE of the papers disagreed with the consensus position.

This analysis shows that scientists publishing in the peer-reviewed literature agree with IPCC, the National Academy of Sciences, and the public statements of their professional societies. Politicians, economists, journalists, and others may have the impression of confusion, disagreement, or discord among climate scientists, but that impression is incorrect. (

(See:// )

After Gore’s “An Inconvenient Truth” was released, the AP contacted 100 climate scientists, including noted “climate skeptics,” and of the 19 that had seen the movie, all recommended its accuracy.

This made the Bushies’ got very nervous. So of course the U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works issued a press release headlined “AP Incorrectly Claims Scientists Praise Gore’s Movie.” Of course, this is a Hondo-style “debate,” the Committee did not bother substantiating that claim.
The committee release whined that the AP didn’t cherry-pick (your preferred verb, Hondo) the handful of scientists around the world who make a living questioning the scientific consensus on global warming. For example, an Australian scientist named Bob Carter told an obscure Canadian paper that Gore’s arguments are “so weak that they are pathetic.” How could the AP exclude this kind of incisive analysis?

The release is also full of misinformation about global warming science. Here are just three of the most blatant errors:

1. The research of Dr. Michael Mann is “now-discredited.” A report released last week by the National Academy of Sciences, created to Congress to provide scientific guidance, found Mann’s research – which concluded the warming in the last several decades is unprecedented in the last 1000 years — “has subsequently been supported by an array of evidence.”

2. “Scientific reports” concluded Mt. Kilimanjaro’s glacier is not disappearing due to global warming. The climate scientists at explain studies of Kilimanjaro “only support the role of precipitation in the initial stages of the retreat, up to the early 1900’s.” Moreover, “the Kilimanjaro glacier survived a 300 year African drought which occurred about 4000 years ago.” The most likely explanation for why it has almost completely disappeared this time is “anthropogenic (human-induced) climate change.”

3. A literature review in the journal Science which claimed consensus on global warming is “flat out incorrect.” The release relies on the analysis of Benny Peiser, which was egregiously flawed. Benny claimed that 34 abstracts “doubted or rejected” the scientific consensus. Actually, there wasn’t ONE peer-reviewed abstract that opposed the scientific consensus.

What I love about you assholes who claim to be God/Jesus-lovers is that you’re only too willing to bend over and take it up the ass from oil companies and other ecocidists who are destroying the Lord’s handiwork. (Glad I’m an atheist.)

Stop, I’m wrong. Even your fellow Christers want to stop manmade global warming—- “The same love for God and neighbor that compels us to preach salvation through Jesus Christ, protect the unborn, preserve the family and the sanctity of marriage, and take the whole Gospel to a hurting world, also compels us to recognize that human-induced climate change is a serious Christian issue requiring action now.” (See  )

So Bush has betrayed you, your fellow Christers have betrayed you. . .  And there you sit, hunched over your keyboard, increasingly isolated, increasingly crazy, wondering if you should up that scrip for Paxil or just take another swig of Jack Daniels. Hey, I’d recommend both.
By the way, stealing the name of one of John Wayne’s more memorable movie characters doesn’t make you the stand-alone stud fantasize yourself as being. What it does make you is a sad little boy forever arrested at the age of 10 when it was so easy to tell the bad guys from the good.

P.S.: As for your neologizing “bananas” as a noun for “whacko”: like most borderline schizos, you’ve devised your own language. I would too, if I lived in your very small, very private, very scarey little world. And as for meaning, anyone with a brain can also figure out a sentence in pidgin English. The writer’s job is to be clear and precise at the outset, not make the reader go on some faux treasure hunt. But since you’re not a writer, that point is moot.

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By Mother of US Special Forces Soldier, July 25, 2006 at 11:56 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

TO:  Comment #15134 by Hondo on 7/25 at 7:59 am

I offically name you   Hondo   the
” Ditzy “(defined :scatterbrained ) red voter alive.

You stated and I quote:
“Please allow me to educate you.”

You failed!

But here try the following for HELP:
  Harvard, Stanford, Duke, MIT, UCLA they have great classes in “LOGIC”; ” ECONOMIC STATS ” .
Remember though unlike BUSH you must attend class to learn.

Zooming onto $$$$$$  4.00 a gallon just loving it,  aren’t YOU?  ZOOM ZOOM

Mother of US Special Forces Soldier

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By Mad as Hell, July 25, 2006 at 10:24 am Link to this comment
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Hondo just goes on saying the same things again and again.  He offers nothing new, refutes NO argument, just goes on and on with his parroting of Fox/Pravda’s party line.
A true neo-con fascist.

Here’s one: Bush got 62.5 million votes (supposedly).  But 59 million people AT LEAST voted against him.  And the GOP managed to get over 3.5 million votes nationally tossed that would have gone Dem (otherwise the GOP wouldn’t have worked to get them tossed). So 59 and 3.5 is ALSO 62.5 million votes.

And when you toss in Ohio’s absurd and illegal dis-enfranchise of voters, there’s NO WAY Bush won the 2004 election—he stole it.  For the second time.

Some mandate!  But in the Hondo world, anybody who doesn’t follow his screwball ideas, doesn’t deserve the right to vote anyway.

When’s your plane leaving for Teheran?  If you don’t like that, Mad King George has SO screwed up Afghanistan that the Taliban are making a comeback!  You’ll like them, Hondo: They believe women are commodities that you have to keep wrapped up. If she trips and shows an ankle they beat her to death.  If she’s raped, they beat her to death.  If she goes to school they beat her to death.

You’ll LIKE living with the Taliban, Hondo! Just don’t remember you were once an American and try to exercise any freedom of speech, thought or anything—or they’ll beat YOU death!

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By Hondo, July 25, 2006 at 7:59 am Link to this comment
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Paul Kibble—as is typical of left wing bananas (don’t try to turn this into a racial thing, anybody with brains knows what I mean) you make great use of hypocracy and lies to try to make a point. Please allow me to educate you.
1. Pres. Bush did indeed have a mandate based on his legal re-election to the presidency in 2004. Almost 63 million Americans voted for him. He received more than 50% of the popular vote, which is something Bill “So What If I Raped Them, They Wanted It” Clinton never accomplished. I seem to recall that when the White House was under the control of the Sex Offender-In-Chief, Democrats kept bleating about the “mandate from the American people” based on elections where more people voted against him than voted for him. The hypocracy of a liberal knows no bounds! Bush’s election was a true mandate, and no amount of liberal temper tantrums will change that fact of reality.
2. You distort the record concerning Robert F. Kennedy Jr. The man absolutely believes that the recent hurricanes are the fault of George Bush. I have heard him say it in his own words on news reports on CNN, MSNBC, and on the Sean Hannity radio show. I’m not refering to “talking heads” or a right wing talk radio guy telling us what Kennedy said. I mean that, in his own words, Kennedy said the hurricanes were Bush’s fault. The man is just as insane as you are, Mr. Kibbles and Bits. By the way, I don’t give 2 hoots about your doctorates. In my experience, the more letters someone has behind their name, the less connected to reality they are. The dumbest person I ever met was a college professor I had (he had a doctorate, too) who tried to tell us that studying the mating habits of baboons would enable us to understand human sexuality. What a moron!
3. You continue to cite Kennedy’s lies and distortions as proof that the 2004 election was stolen. I could spend the next 15 minutes of my life tapping on the keyboard and listing all of the different ways that Kennedy’s myths have been debunked, but that would be 15 minutes of my life I could never get back. I will simply quote from the report released in 2005 by the Democrat Party. It said, “Despite the problems on Election Day, there is no evidence from our survey that John Kerry won the State of Ohio.” We won, you lost, get over it!
4. Your hypocracy shows again when you try to paint Sandra Day O’Conner as a right wing extremist. How many times did we hear liberals say that Bush should appoint a successor to O’Conner who was just as moderate, just as thoughtful, just as open minded as O’Conner? I started thinking that Sandra Day O’Conner was the wisest person on earth since the days of Solomon! You can’t have it both ways! The facts are there to see, for anyone who wants to go online to read the daily news accounts from those days in 2000. The Democrats wanted to cherry pick ballots from liberal precincts to recount, and they wanted to use ESP to discern voter intentions from hanging chads. After each recount, Bush still was ahead. Gore persisted, because, as every liberal knows, if a liberal loses an election it just had to be fixed! Finally, 5 members of the Supreme Court (3 stone-cold conservatives, 2 moderates) overruled 4 liberal wing nuts (is that less racist than “bananas”?), stopped Gore’s criminal attempt to steal the election.
5. You talk about global warming as if the world’s scientists are unanimous about the issue. More liberal lies. The scientific community is greatly divided on whether or not the claims made by “Broken Thermometer” Gore in his new flick are at all credible. Much has been written by scientists all over the world about how useless computer models are in predicting future weather activity. Articles are appearing literally every day from scientists criticizing the junk science in Gores movie, just as there are art icles being written in support. What liberals do is to denounce any scientist who disagrees as disreputable, and then misrepresent the “reputable” scientists as if they were speaking for the whole scientific community. The standard liberal party line? “Anyone who disagrees with my lies sucks! They no longer exist in my ‘Fractured Fairy Tale’ world! Therefore, it’s unanimous. All of my lies are true!” Mr. Kibbles and Bits, you are the very picture of insanity. As you will see in the months and years ahead, a majority of Americans don’t buy in to your liberal lies. The GOP will retain control of both houses of Congress in 2006, and, in 2008, somebody a whole lot more conservative than Bush will win the White House. Can you say Pres. Tancredo? How about Pres. Gingrich? Or maybe Pres. Allen or Pres. Santorum? To paraphrase fellow conservative Alice Cooper, “Welcome to your nightmare!”

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By p. toman, July 25, 2006 at 7:38 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Mad as Hell (comment #15035): Hondo is a fascist. I’d gladly pay for his ticket to Iran.(Wonder if I could write it off on next year’s taxes?)  There’s no difference between Islamofascism and the American-Taliban version of that kind of fanaticism.

Laurence Topliffe (comment #14830): Thanks for posting more info about your website….very interesting.

GREAT double post by paul kibble (Comments 15059 & 15062)but it took me a while to get through it. Worth the effort—-way more informative than Hondo’s recycled Republican talking points.

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By Mother of US Special Forces Soldier, July 25, 2006 at 7:11 am Link to this comment
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TO:  THE UNEDUCATED - Comment #14783 by Hondo

little one YOU need EDUCATION and FAST!

Democrates have higher sat scores by far!
Democrates have higher psat scores by far
democrates have higher degree level obtained including PhD.
Now YOU want to compare the AP scores and I really blow out your doors?

Negative Education states

lucky for the New England states they carry the HIGHEST SCORES IN THE NATION!

YOU are posting FALSE data.

Now want to you the average salary of a red state verses blue?  I have the data.

Mother of US Special Forces Soldier

Rank and file at the college board by state DO NOT LIE but a red voter will!

How the gas and food prices?  You haven’t seen anything yet.

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By Pat, July 25, 2006 at 5:50 am Link to this comment
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People like “Hondo” and far too many others just like him, use ‘labels’ like Marxist, Conservative, Liberal, Fascist, Democracy, etc as if these words actually mean something. Ann Coulter and Bill O’Reily are perfect examples of people who uses labels to pigeon-hole or ridicule others ... when they haven’t got a clue themselves, but hey at least they’re making a name for themselves (even if that name is “nasty, hateful *#$%*”).

Everyone wants to put labels on concepts that cannot even be easily defined. As far as I’m concerned, what all this war mongering and political posturing comes down to in the final analysis is simply this: POWER & PROFIT! That is all some people want and they don’t care who gets hurt or killed as long as they can get what they want. And isn’t that the perfect definition of today’s modern politician, regardless of political affiliation. People can’t even rule themselves properly but they think they know what’s best for everyone else.

Whether the power and profit grabbers are using religious or political beliefs as their excuse, the common denominator is always POWER & PROFIT. “I want what you got (PROFIT) and I also want to be the boss of everybody else (POWER).” There has never been a war waged on this planet that doesn’t come down to those two things.

I received a forwarded article the other day called “The Shame of Being an American - written by Paul Craig Roberts - 07/22/06 - Information Clearing House”. The same person also sent me the link to a page full of pictures of the innocent victims of the horrific Israeli bombing of Lebanon -

I was asked what I thought of them. I answered with the following: “What do I think? I think the pictures are real ... and disgusting! I think ‘armchair warriors’ who like to make war as long as they don’t have to experience it firsthand should be outlawed in every single country on this planet.

I think every single man and woman regardless of race, color or creed, who supports war ANYWHERE, FOR ANY REASON (especially all politicians) should be required by law to go and face the bombs and bullets themselves ... on the front lines. I think they should have to - mandated by law - take every single one of their children along for the ride, regardless of age, so these oh so willing armchair warmongers can experience the ‘full’ and total horror of what they propose should be done to others (especially if their kids are old enough to be terrified. That way they can experience the full effects of what the war they’ve chosen to wage does to other people’s children).

I think they should also be required to take their grandchildren, parents, aunts and uncles along with them so they can get a good dose of first hand experience of what it feels like to have their own innocent newborn baby’s head blown off, or their own toddler blown out of their car and killed, or have to watch their children or elderly relatives slowly starve or slowly sicken and die from DU poisoning, or have to dig them out of the rubble of bombed buildings. Maybe then the wars would stop.

I think that when you hold your beloved dead baby in your arms it’s not so easy to be so fond of starting wars!

I think I wish God had taken me home with the cancer four years ago before I had to see that headless baby or any of the countless other dead victims of other people’s hate. I think humans make me sick. I think I don’t know why God hasn’t blown us all straight to hell where so many of us belong. I think we’re nothing less than a race of disgusting, perverted savages. At least rabid dogs are so sick they can’t understand why they attack. We do it on the least pretext and understand exactly what we’re doing ... and we don’t give a crap as long as it’s someone else who has to hold and mourn their headless babies. That’s what I think!

Why did I decide to post these comments publically? Because of the title of that second article - “The Shame of Being an American”. I’ve read article after article condemning America for not stopping Israel and Lebanon from feuding ... as if America is some sort of cosmic god or is the only country able to do this,when America can’t even make itself behave humanely.

The plain and simple truth is that although American politicians are a prime example of the blind leading the blind, that title is actually true of every single country on this dirt ball. We are a planet run by bullies and rabid killers who think of nothing but power and profit and don’t care who suffers as long as it isn’t them.

BUT…Those who willingly or unwillingly obey and do the bidding of their country’s political leaders ... do their killing ... are little more than cowards. Why? Because the rest of the world’s population outnumbers the ‘killer’ politicians thousands to one yet we don’t have the guts to say no when politicians demand we go to someone else’s country…someone else’s home…and kill people we’ve never met who have done nothing to harm us personally.

I’ve listened for years to people complain about the ‘war-mongers’, yet I’ve heard of only a very few who’ve had the guts to go to jail rather than kill on demand to increase some politician’s power and profit.

It isn’t only Americans who need to be ashamed of what their leaders and their country are doing. Until we all stand up and say, “I don’t care if you jail me, kill me or try to hurt my family to force me, I WILL NOT GO AND KILL FOR YOU!!!” we will continue to suffer the death and destruction ordered by the power-mad, rabid dog politicians of this world, regardless of what country we live in.

There could be no war if the cannon-fodder refused to be cannon fodder any longer. Until we the people get the guts to say no to politicians, to generals ... to killing ... we will continue to suffer the rule and oppression of the rabid dogs who love power enough to force others to kill for them.

The world has no problem putting embargoes on Iraq or Lebanon to financially pressure them to cease attacking others. Where are the sanctions against the USA or Israel by self-righteous Canada, Australia, France, Germany, etc? Why no sanctions or embargoes against the biggest war mongers of them all…the USA, England, Israel, etc?

Maybe some reporters need to write a few other articles, with titles like, “The Shame of Being A Silently Complicit Canadian…The Shame of Being A Silently Complicit Australian…The Shame of Being A Silently Complicit Israeli…The Shame of Being A Silently Complicit Englishman…The Shame of Being A Silently Complicit ..... (fill in your own country of choice”)!

Politicians are bullies and bullies can only control the willing. When will we stop being willing?

Pat, Canada

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By John U., July 24, 2006 at 6:14 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Re: Hondo 15038
Don’t forget to affix your “I don’t support our troops as you can see from this irresponsible gas guzzler I’m driving” bumper sticker next to your Hillary ‘08 sticker. I’m sure your Made In China magnetic ribbon stickers have fallen off by now.

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By paul kibble, July 24, 2006 at 3:02 pm Link to this comment
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4. “In 2004—landslide win for Bush, not even a peep from Kerry/Edwards.”

Bush didn’t win by a landslide in 2004, nor did he have a “mandate” based on his election.

“Although Bush received a majority of the popular vote: 50.73% to Kerry’s 48.27%, it was, percentage-wise, the closest popular margin ever for a sitting President; Bush received 2.5% more than Kerry; the closest previous margin won by a sitting President was 3.2% for Woodrow Wilson in 1916. In terms of absolute number of popular votes, his victory margin (approximately 3 million votes) was the smallest of any sitting President since Harry S. Truman in 1948.” (Source: Wikipedia) 

And, oh, hark, here’s a peep:  the Kerry/Edwards presidential campaign filed two motions to preserve and augment evidence of alleged election fraud in the 2004 election.

Captioned “Motion Of Intervener-Defendant Kerry-Edwards 2004, Inc. For A Preservation Order And For A Leave To Take Limited Expedited Discovery.,” the motion sought o preserve all ballots and voting machines pertaining to the Yost matter for investigation and analysis; and to make available for sworn deposition testimony a technician for Triad Systems, the company that produced and maintained many of the voting machines used in the Ohio election.

The technician has been accused of tampering with the recount process in Hocking County, Ohio, though other counties are believed to have also been involved.

A.“Is that the same RFK Jr. who said that the recent spate of hurricanes have occurred because Bush is president, and Bush is unfriendly to the environment?”

Needless to say, another distortion—-you’d put any circus contortionist to shame. Until recently, Bush the Science President claimed the jury was still out on global warming (despite the overwhelming consensus of reputable scientists to the contrary). Kennedy argued that Bush’s policies on CO 2 regulation (on which the Dubster flip-flopped) contributed to the phenomenon of global warming—-not in the simplistic scenario you propose (although Bush was “appointed” by God, he still doesn’t have His powers) but through a complex chain of climatological/environmental events.

Here’s what Kennedy actually wrote 1n 2005: “’A moment of truth is arriving,’ [Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour wrote [in a document titled “Bush-Cheney Energy Policy & CO2”], ‘in the form of a decision whether this Administration’s policy will be to regulate and/or tax CO2 as a pollutant. The question is whether environmental policy still prevails over energy policy with Bush-Cheney, as it did with Clinton-Gore.’ He derided the idea of regulating CO2 as ‘eco-extremism,’ and chided them for allowing environmental concerns to ‘trump good energy policy, which the country has lacked for eight years.’”

“. . . .On March 13, Bush reversed [i.e., “flip-flopped” on] his previous position, announcing he would not back a CO2 restriction using the language and rationale provided by Barbour. Echoing Barbour’s memo, Bush said he opposed mandatory CO2 caps, due to ‘the incomplete state of scientific knowledge’ about global climate change.”

“Well, the science is clear. This month, a study published in the journal Nature by a renowned MIT climatologist linked the increasing prevalence of destructive hurricanes to human-induced global warming.”

“Now we are all learning what it’s like to reap the whirlwind of fossil fuel dependence which Barbour and his cronies have encouraged. Our destructive addiction has given us a catastrophic war in the Middle East and—now—Katrina is giving our nation a glimpse of the climate chaos we are bequeathing our children.”

B. The New York Times [article, editorial, op-ed piece?—-as usual, no citation given] isn’t part of “a right-wing conspiracy,” but it’s not exactly an icon of journalistic integrity and objectivity, much less the hotbed of liberalism you imagine it to be. Take—-please—-Judith Miller, who was a faithful shill for the Busies’ Iraq war con job until countervailing evidence raised its inconvenient head and forced the Time to apologize for her mindless flackery of behalf of Dubya. (She also left her post at the Times in disgrace).

C. Oh, and as for those stats:
Yes, 26% who registered in 2004 couldn’t find their names on the voter rolls at polling places. As a result, 4.2 percent of Kerry voters had to cast a provisional ballot and 4.1 percent of Bush voters had to do likewise.
Unfortunately, this small margin makes a difference: a mere 0.1% difference between Bush and Kerry voters translates as thousands of votes in an election where the win/loss difference was somewhere around 130,000.

As Kennedy himself wrote, “The DNC report only ventures an estimate for the subset of 129,543 voters, not the full 3 percent turned away by long lines, writing of the additional 0.83 percent, ‘We do not know the voting preferences of these approximately 47,979 voters.’”

Even more significant, there’s no evidence that the need to cat a provisional vote was equally distributed, or that that everyone who should have been allowed to use a provisional ballot was in fact allowed to, or that provisional ballots were counted in an equitable manner.
Kennedy added, “I chose not to rely on this incomplete picture from the DNC. It was evidently informed by self-reports of voter preference by citizens surveyed months after the victor had already been determined—a notoriously unreliable measure that routinely overstates the performance of the victor. Instead, I cite the lone report on the Ohio scandal that was produced by the federal government, the Conyers Report. It concludes that the majority disenfranchised by the lines were Democrats. That report—along with every news report from Election Day—identifies that the worst lines were in urban areas and on college campuses, Democratic strongholds both.” (See )
In fact, the more thoroughgoing Conyers report found that Democratic voters were disproportionately (and in violation of the Voting Rights Act) targeted for challenge at the polls, that many more Democratic than Republican voters were turned away by long lines, and that many were improperly denied provisional ballots.

Ohio did OK in counting provisional, except in Democratic counties like Luca and Cuyahoga Counties, where respectively 41% and 34% of the provisionals were thrown out, as opposed to 23% statewide. The law of averages dictates that, with those differences, nearly all the provisionals in Republican counties were counted. 

D.  As for those 174,000 or 129,543—-would discouraged voters split evenly, as the DNC report implies?  No statistician would suggest such a parity was possible unless conditions were the nearly the same for all involved. White voters waited on average about 20 minutes, black voters, nearly an hour.

The 129,543 votes were only a part of those disenfranchised. The report identifies a second group of about 48,000 citizens, or 0.83 percent of Ohio’s electorate, whose votes were also suppressed because of the long lines and other factors. 

But there were more people put off by long lines than those who actually went to the polls and were discouraged. The report also mentions 48,000 voters who didn’t vote because, among other factors, they had heard about long lines.

The DNC report also states that 3% of voters were turned away by long lines: “Scarcity of voting machines caused long lines that deterred many people from voting. Three percent of voters who went to the polls left their polling places and did not return due to the long lines.”

E. I’m happy to report that the Republicans are now reaping the whirlwind for their Ohio caper. Good Christian Ken Blackwell currently trails his Democratic opponent by some 20% in the race for the governor’s office. Ohio voters are onto the con: the clear conflict of interest in serving as both secretary of state and co-chairman of Bush’s Ohio campaign; the blatantly partisan rulings that limited the use of provisional ballots in key inner-city districts; and the grotesque requirement (wisely abandoned) that only voter-registration forms on heavyweight 80-pound paper would be accepted. Up to his usual tricks, Blackwell has this year interpreted an ambiguously worded state statute so that anyone who registers as a new voter could be convicted of a felon if that person gives the forms to an outside group for submission.

And Katherine Harris’s campaign in Florida—-well, payback’s a bitch.

F.The funniest line in your little whinefest was the bit about Bush being a “moderate conservative.” I’ll give Mark Crispin Miller the floor on that one:

“The movement now in power is not conservative but radical, intent on an apocalyptic program that is fundamentally opposed to the ideals of the Enlightenment, on which, lest we forget, this revolutionary secular republic was first founded. The movement frankly disbelieves in reason, and in all the other worldly goods that every rational American still takes for granted: pluralism, checks and balances, ‘the general welfare,’ freedom, progress, the pursuit of happiness. For this movement, condom use is worse than death by AIDS, however many millions the disease may kill; the ruination of the planet should be hastened, not prevented, as it means that He will be returning soon; the ‘war on terror’ is a matter not of geopolitics but metaphysics, as our national enemy is ‘a guy named Satan’; homosexuals should not be citizens, the US having been conceived as a ‘Christian republic’; and—most relevant to this debate—the movement’s adversaries, which means all the rest of us, are not human beings with divergent interests but literal ‘agents of Hell,’ demonic entities against which any tactic, however criminal or sinful, is permissible, because they are likely to use any tactic, regardless of its sinfulness or criminality, to force their evil program on the Righteous Ones.”

You talk about liberals’ supposed “anger” at having there “world view” challenged
by “facts.” Since you’re a near illiterate—-lip-reading a few pages of Coulter a week doesn’t count—-you’ve never read the American historian Richard Hofstadter’s famous essay, “The Paranoid Style in American Politics.” Yet you embody that style with breathtaking perfection. For example, re your very selective and self-protective notion of “facts,” Hofstadter writes:

“A final characteristic of the paranoid style is related to the quality of its pedantry. One of the impressive things about paranoid literature is the contrast between its fantasied conclusions and the almost touching concern with factuality it invariably shows. It produces heroic strivings for evidence to prove that the unbelievable is the only thing that can be believed. Of course, there are highbrow, lowbrow, and middlebrow paranoids, as there are likely to be in any political tendency. But respectable paranoid literature not only starts from certain moral commitments that can indeed be justified but also carefully and all but obsessively accumulates ‘evidence.’ The difference between this ‘evidence’ and that commonly employed by others is that it seems less a means of entering into normal political controversy than a means of warding off the profane intrusion of the secular political world. The paranoid seems to have little expectation of actually convincing a hostile world, but he can accumulate evidence in order to protect his cherished convictions from it.”

Hondo, only one of your phrases rang true here—-the bit about “little old me.” I assume the “little” refers to either your intellectual or genital endowment—-conservative troglodytes tend to have Level 5 anxieties (with compensatory behavior) over those two issues. The “old” part likewise sounds plausible since clearly neither your politics nor that desiccated blob of tissue you call your brain has evolved since Jurassic Park.

Unlike Our Savior, Good Christian Hondo fatally declined to turn the other cheek in this debate, although of course he’s been only too willing to spread those other cheeks to accommodate ride-‘em-cowboy Georgie’s titanium mantool. Harder, deeper, faster, Daddy Dubya, touch that gland!

Like the high-school wallflower (of either sex) who dreams of putting out for the entire varsity squad, Hondo has been taken for a ride (in every sense) so often by this administration that he now imagines he’s become the Right’s new prom queen He should have remembered that repulsively cynical (but here, entirely appropriate) locker-room maxim: the ugly ones always fuck.

P.S.: From the quality of your (as it were) prose, I infer that English is not your first language. Certainly your grasp of the vernacular is, oh, a little shaky. But, um, listen and learn, as someone once said to me: the slang term “bananas” is used as an adjective, not a noun, as in the phrase, “Bush’s stance on global warming is bananas.”  “Banana” used as a noun is an unflattering epithet applied to an assimilationist Asian, equivalent to “oreo” for blacks.

Got it? Game, set, and match to moi. Now go take a nappy with your playmate Georgie.

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By paul kibble, July 24, 2006 at 2:47 pm Link to this comment
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Oh my goodness, our Good Christian Hondo didn’t cut and run, as you did during our exchange on the last Mississippi “abortion mill” standing!  Taking a break from those woman-on-dog websites, whaleish man-titties heaving with mirth whenever you think you’ve scored another killer debating point (“Oh, snap!”), you in fact walked directly into the line of fire. Oops, someone should have told you there’s a difference between being brave and being foolhardy. Call the clean-up crew, fellas, it’s gonna get messy.

You claim that liberalism rots “your heart, your mind, and your soul”—-an odd complaint coming from someone who possesses none of those qualities. Hilariously, the dim little 5-watt bulb that is you, flickering away in cyberspace, also imagines that, like Jesus himself, you’re the Light of the World, bringing the truth to us heathen dwelling in outer darkness. Like your Massah Georgie, you obviously have delusions of adequacy (rather than grandeur).

You also sneer at my “room-temperature IQ” (so much for my two doctorates), presumably in contrast to your brainiac brilliance. (Finally pass that G.E.D., did we?) Oh, well: if wishes were horses, then intellectual beggars like you could ride.

You say you love debating. That’s sweet. My 5-year-old son loves pounding on the keys of our grand piano. Like you, he has no idea what he’s doing, but, unlike you, he’s capable of learning. Suggested title: How to Debate a Liberal (If You Must), by your fave dominatrix.

You’re a “Christian” in the same way that crooks Tom Delay, the late and little lamented Kenny Ley, and Dubya himself are “Christians”: cynical hacks who coat themselves with a patina of piety to justify their depredations. 

I realize that you’re used to dealing in black-and-white sound bites processed through the Fox/Coulter/Bush meat grinders. It makes the big, bad world so much more manageable, huh? Your putative mentor Jay-sus once said, “By their fruits ye shall know them!” How true, O Blessed Redeemer! So come, all ye faithful, let’s look at the rotting bowl of poisoned apples Hondo calls “facts.” Try to keep up, my ADD amigo.

1.  Predictably, since you spend so much of your time sniffing Anne Coulter’s thong (not to mention Dubya’s jockstrap), you start off with a D.O.A. cliché about my “liberal panties [being] in a knot.” (News flash, Hondo: not everyone shares your underwear fetish.) Form follows function: you use dead language to express dead thoughts.

But what your tone-deaf dispatch misreads as my “anger” is in fact my undisguised and probably quite unhealthy glee in backing the frothing-at-every-orifice little mutt that is you back up against the bars of your self-built cage. Oh, God, I feel so ashamed—-or not. (Actually, it’s the sort of emotion you should be able to identify with, since I’m betting a large chunk of your sad, lonely youth was spent torturing many creatures great and small—but mostly small.) I expect PETA’s legions to show up on my door step any minute now.

A.” You talk about Bush’s low poll numbers. That’s a fact, but only because he has a tragic tendency to pay too much attention to the left. . .Conservative support has eroded because, too many times, Bush has sided with the liberals.”

Oh, I see: when Kerry modifies his views on an issue, he’s a “flip-flopper.” When Bush does the same, it’s a slight character flaw, a “tragic” but ultimately forgivable propensity to placate those damned Libs.  (Similar, no doubt, to his earlier pre-Jesus “tragic tendency” toward hoggish consumption of booze and blow.)

But wait: hasn’t Bush staked his whole reputation on being an iron-willed Man of Principle standing tall against crushing onslaughts from liberal armies of the night? Why, yes—-except when he doesn’t.  Emerson said: “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds;” in this sense, Bush and you must have very large minds indeed.

Let’s look at the latest example of that “tragic tendency:” the Dubster’s veto of a bill that would have expanded federal funding for human embryonic stem cell research. There’s the inconvenient fact (as opposed to a Hondo denatured factoid) that notorious Lefties like Bill Frist, Nancy Reagan and Orrin Hatch have expressed strong support for this type of research. Thus Frist: “While human embryonic stem cell research is still at a very early stage, the limitations put in place in 2001 will, over time, slow our ability to bring potential new treatments for certain diseases.” 

Moreover, 70% of the public supports such research “and would likely support any legislative initiative that funds it in any way, shape, or form.” (Gallup, July, 2006) This broad-spectrum support cuts across class, party, and ethnic lines. But Bush, resisting his “tragic tendency” to capitulate to the Left, vetoed the bill that would have provided funding for these programs.

So, according to your calculus, this rightward sashay should have earned Bush a few upticks in the poll numbers, si? Why, no: in fact, “polls show a majority of the public still supports stem cell research, “and many vow it won’t end with a veto.”

The stem cell numbers are representative of the fact (not factoid)  that on all of Bush’s major foreign and domestic initiatives, the Prez has continued to lose ground with the American public. (Judicial nominations are a sideline issue for most of the public, though not for us partisans.) As usual, you didn’t dare address Bush’s general (dis)approval ratings for job performance because by this point they’re so deep in the toilet you’d need a fleet of Roto-Rooters to extract them. Which takes us to our next point.

B. “The fact that conservatives are unhappy with Bush doesn’t take away from the fact that nearly 63 million Americans voted for him in the last election, giving him 4 more years.” Unfortunately, what does take away from that fact is the nasty little detail that so many of those 63 million now think he sucks:

“A spate of good news at home and abroad has so far failed to boost how Americans feel about President Bush’s job performance. Bush’s approval rating slipped to 35% in a TIME poll taken this week, down from 37% in March (and 53% in early 2005). Only 33% of Americans in the survey said they approved of Bush’s handling of the situation in Iraq, vs. 35% in March, and 47% in March 2005. His management of the U.S. economy lost supporters, too, as 36% approved, compared with 39% three months earlier. Bush’s handling of the war on terror saw a slight gain in support, from 44% to 45%. “

“Bush’s poll numbers remain stuck in a rut despite several high-profile victories scored recently by the Bush Administration. Earlier this month, U.S. forces killed al-Qaeda leader Abu Mousab al-Zarqawi in an air raid in Iraq. Also this month, Karl Rove escaped indictment in the CIA leak investigation. And the Commerce Department reported today that the U.S. economy grew 5.6% in the first quarter of 2006, the fastest growth in more than two years.” (Source: Time Magazine, June 30)

2. “You engage in the typical liberal deceit by saying that Bush was forced to admit that Sadaam had nothing to do with 9/11. Bush didn’t have to admit anything, because he never said that Sadaam was tied to 9/11. Not ever did he say that. He did say that there were links between Sadaam and Bin Laden, a fact that has been supported over and over again by both government sources and independent fact-finding commissions.”

Actually, the only deceit being engaged in here is yours. The “government sources and independent fact-finding commissions” have reached the opposite conclusions, as we shall see.

Here’s a lesson in Debate 101: define your terms at the outset. What do you mean by “links”? “Correlation equals causation” is one of the most common logical fallacies exploited by cynical governments who want to manipulate a gullible public for their own nefarious purposes—-why, after all, where there’s smoke, there’s fire, right? That’s exactly what the Bush administration did.
A. If Bush “never said that Sadaam was tied 9/11,” why did he spend so much time saying “that there were links between Sadaam and Bin Laden”? Because our casus belli for invading Iraq had to be based on such a specious connection.

As we all know, the Bush Ministry of Propaganda, as a key part of its case for going to war, repeatedly suggested that Iraq had a significant “cooperative relationship” with the people who attacked us on 9/11. The administration did everything it could to ensure that this “cooperative relationship” would be read by an ill-informed public as tantamount to directly aiding and abetting the 9/11 attacks on the Twin Towers. Thus, in 2003 a Washington Post poll found that nearly seven Americans out of ten believed Saddam had played a role in the Sept. 11. 

The “relationship” between ideological incompatibles like Osama and Saddam Hussein’s former regime was mostly based on unverified claims that were first advanced by some top Bush administration officials, even though they were largely discounted at the time by the U.S. intelligence community and subsequently discredited by current and former U.S. intelligence officials.

Thus, in 2004, The Pentagon was forced to issue a press release stating that “news reports that the Defense Department recently confirmed new information with respect to contacts between al-Qaida and Iraq ... are inaccurate.” So the liberals have infiltrated Foggy Bottom, too!

But the “cooperative relationship” lie was but one element in Bill Kristol and the other neocons’ blueprint for their Project for a New American Century in the Middle East. To the later great humiliation of the administration, they allowed badly cherry-picked and faultily analyzed information to justify their pre-existing agenda. They could barely wait to get of the gate to those oil fields.

Thus, according to Richard Clarke, ``Rumsfeld was saying we needed to bomb Iraq [shortly after 9/11]. ... We all said, ‘but no, no. Al Qaeda is in Afghanistan,`and Rumsfeld said, ‘There aren’t any good targets in Afghanistan and there are lots of good targets in Iraq.’‘’. . .``But the CIA was sitting there, the FBI was sitting there, I was sitting there, saying, ‘We’ve looked at this issue for years. For years we’ve looked and there’s just no connection,’‘’ wrote Clarke.

But to an easily manipulated electorate, the fact that we attacked Iraq was “proof” in itself that they were implicated in 9/11. Why, after all, would we attack a sovereign nation that posed no threat to our national security unless it was a co-conpirator? Correlation=causation. Q.E.D.

B. Oh, yes those government sources and independent fact-finding commissions. After Bush repeatedly did his guilt-by-association shtick with Saddam Hussein and Al Q-9/11 attacks, he finally stated in September 2003 that the Iraq’s Madman for All Seasons played no role in those attacks:  “We’ve had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with the September 11 [attacks].”

Likewise, the 9/11 commission reported that Osama bin Laden met with a top Iraqi official in 1994 but found “no credible evidence of a link” between Iraq and Al Q in attacks against the United States. . Indeed, the commission staff said, Iraq apparently rejected Osama bin Laden’s requests to provide space for training camps and help Al Qaeda acquire weapons.

In fact, senior U.S. officials long ago conceded that there never was any such evidence suggesting Saddam’s secular police state and Osama bin Laden’s Islamic terrorism network were in league. At most, there were occasional meetings.
The U.S. intelligence community never concluded that those meetings produced an operational relationship. That verdict was in a secret report by the CIA’s Directorate of Intelligence that was updated in January 2003, on the eve of the war.

“’We could find no provable connection [“connection”=”link,” Hondo] between Saddam and al-Qaida,’ a senior U.S. official acknowledged
Similar conclusions are contained in CIA documents excerpted in 2004 as part of an Armed Services Committee minority inquiry into Iraq intelligence failures. The declassified portions of the documents relate to the Intelligence Community’s analysis of Iraq’s connections to al Qaeda, and demonstrate that the Intelligence Community 1) did not conclude that Iraq had provided training to al Qaeda in Weapons of Mass Destruction technologies, and 2) that it was skeptical of an alleged meeting between the lead 9/11 hijacker (Mohammed Atta) and an Iraqi intelligence official in Prague five months before the 9/11 attacks.
Further, U.S. intelligence services unanimously agreed last fall that “no specific intelligence information” tied Iraq to U.S. terrorist attacks, including the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.

Their findings were presented in a still-secret report on Iraq. The summary, or “key judgments” section, of the 90-page National Intelligence Estimate has since been declassified. (The report is different from the unclassified 25-page white paper the CIA made public on its website last October.)
Page 4 of the report states: “... [W]e have no specific intelligence information that Saddam’s regime has directed attacks against U.S. territory.”

Many of the notorious Judith Miller’s Iraq stories came from Ahmed Chalabi – an Iraqi defector favored by the administration to replace Hussein, and one with whom Miller has had a 10-year relationship.
U.S. intelligence officials stated that the vast majority of the information Chalabi has provided on Hussein’s regime has proved to be unreliable or false.

However, he remained a key source of intelligence for a temporary shop Feith and others set up at the Pentagon before the war called the Office of Special Plans. They say Chalabi’s information made it to the White House through that special office.

C. You wisely chose to avoid rebutting my point about all those Republicans who have turncoated on Bush and are refusing (unlike you) to parrot all that looking-through-rose-colored bombsights shit about how wonderful things are going in Iraq (the insurgents are in their final throes!) 

Here are some more traitors from—-Omigod—-your camp, Hondo! “David Brooks now admits that he was gripped with a ‘childish fantasy’ about Iraq. Tucker Carlson is ‘ashamed’ and ‘enraged’ at himself. Tom Friedman, admitting to being ‘a little slow,’ is finally off the reservation. Die-hard Republican publicist William Kristol admits of Bush, ‘He did drive us into a ditch.’ The neocon fantasist and sometime Republican speechwriter Mark Helprin complains on the Wall Street Journal editorial page—the movement’s Pravda—of ‘the inescapable fact that the war has been run incompetently, with an apparently deliberate contempt for history, strategy, and thought, and with too little regard for the American soldier, whose mounting casualties seem to have no effect on the boastfulness of the civilian leadership.’” Treason! And those are your former allies! Guess they share Georgie’s “tragic tendency” to buckle under to the Libs.

D. Bush “also said that Sadaam had WMD, another fact which has been proven true (we found them).” This is typical conservative bullshit, to paraphrase you. Why, yes we did—-and they’re technological dinosaurs that have about as much relationship the WMD’s the Bushies were originally tweaking about as your knuckle-dragging fundamentalism does to true Christianity.

As the Washington Post reported on June 22 of this year, re those pre-Gulf War antiques,  “[n]either the military nor the White House nor the CIA considered the shells to be evidence of what was alleged by the Bush administration to be a current Iraqi program to make chemical, biological and nuclear weapons.”

The Duefler Report concluded that “old, abandoned chemical munitions” found in Iraq—such as the ones hyped by Rick Santorum and Hoekstra—are not part of a “chemical weapons stockpile.” According to the report:

“While a small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions have been discovered, ISG judges that Iraq unilaterally destroyed its undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991. There are no credible indications that Baghdad resumed production of chemical munitions thereafter, a policy ISG attributes to Baghdad’s desire to see sanctions lifted, or rendered ineffectual, or its fear of force against it should WMD be discovered.”

“The scale of the Iraqi conventional munitions stockpile, among other factors, precluded an examination of the entire stockpile; however, ISG inspected sites judged most likely associated with possible storage or deployment of chemical weapons.”

Duelfer also appeared on the June 22 broadcast of National Public Radio’s Talk of the Nation, where he stated that these munitions are not weapons of mass destruction:

“We found, when we were investigating, some residual chemical munitions. And we said in the report that such chemical munitions would probably still be found. But the ones which have been found are left over from the Iran-Iraq war.
. . .They are almost 20 years old, and they are in a decayed fashion. It is very interesting that there are so many that were unaccounted for, but they do not constitute a weapon of mass destruction, although they could be a local hazard. . . . these do not indicate an ongoing weapons of mass destruction program as had been thought to exist before the war. These are leftover rounds, which Iraq probably did not even know that it had. Certainly, the leadership was unaware of their existence, because they made very clear that they had gotten rid of their programs as a prelude to getting out of sanctions. . .they are local hazards. They are not a major, you know, weapon of mass destruction.”

Even Fox’s Brit noted that “the Defense Department is saying tonight about all this, well, yes, they were found, and yes, they were, though degraded, weapons of mass destruction, but they were not the weapons of mass destruction that we believed where there.”  The bananarama left claims another victim—-with a tragic tendency to tell the truth.

3. A mentally challenged semiliterate offering history lessons to his betters is like a paint-by numbers toddler offering drawing lessons to Picasso: at first it’s amusing, then slightly irritating, then finally sad.

Your “history lesson” consists of shattered fragments of info (or disinfo) ripped out of context, Fox factoids, omission of conflicting or contradictory evidence, and outright lies It suggests that you were born out of your time since clearly you really would have felt more at home as a minor functionary on Goebbel’s staff (“Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth”).
I realize that, given your ADD-challenged pea brain (so like your Master’s), you can barely focus on one issue at a time. Simple minds, simple explanations.

A. Of course, you confuse the issue of disenfranchisement (the approximately 180,000 voters, 54 percent of whom were African American, who would probably have favored Gore)  with issues of ballot design (the 113,000 “overvotes”  cast predominantly on Palm Beach county’s “butterfly” ballot and Duval county’s two-page ballot) and defective electoral machinery (the estimated 120,000 votes lost due to machine errors, concentrated in areas where voters were poorer, black, or elderly Jews - all groups likely to support Gore). But semantic nuances like this are for pussy-ass liberals.

As for “liberal stupidity” being responsible for the ovevotes,  as James G, Wilson noted, “A confusing ballot created by Theresa LePore, a former Republican- then Independent- turned Democrat (to ensure she’d be elected to the Supervisor’s position in a largely Democratic county), caused folks to either vote for the wrong person or punch two names (overvote). Even Bat Pukehanon [sic] admits that there is no way he should have received those 3,000 votes in a mainly Jewish Palm Beach county. Coincidence? Accident due to a confusing ballot? Or, did 3,000 Jewish folk actually vote for a neo-Nazi??? . . .”

Wilson continues: “During the recounts, it came out that Reflublican [sic] officials in Seminole and Martin counties altered absentee ballots that were printed incorrectly. At the same time, these officials refused to let Democratic representatives correct ballots for their registered absentee voters. As a result, absentee ballots went to Shrub by a margin of two to one. Coincidence? Hardly!”

B. You conveniently omit the other issues in the 2000 heist, to wit:
•  Katherine Harris’ conflicts of interest (unlike Jeb, refusing to recuse herself from the recount
•  Purged voter rolls, often of (mainly black) voters who in fact had no felony convictions ChoicePoint gave Florida officials a list of names of these nonexistent ex-felons to “scrub” from their list of voters. The company acknowledged the error, and blamed it on the original source of the list—the state of Texas. (Florida wisely settled a voter discrimination lawsuit with the NAACP in 2002 rather than face trial)
•  Police taking part in questionable poll security practices,
•  Republican officials’ altering of ballots in Seminole and Martin counties,
•  Rupert Murdoch’s crazy-like-a-Fox role in prematurely calling the election
•  “Rent-a-thugs” rioting to stop the recounts in Miami-Dade county “[they] created a mob scene, , ,screaming. . .pounding on doors and [threatening an] alleged physical assault on Democrats”—-Time Magazine)
•  Most importantly, the conclusions of the independent recounts

C. With typical Chrish-tee-un hypocrisy, you’re a champion of election bylaws and rules when they work in Monkeyboy’s favor but, predictably, not so much so when they work against him.

Bush won the election night vote count in Florida by a little over 1000 votes. Florida state law provided for an automatic recount due to the small margins. Florida manual recounts had previously been used as in the case of one of its senators, Connie Mack. In fact, then-Governor George W. Bush himself had recently signed a bill permitting recounts in his state.

Accordingly, as mandated by Florida statute, Gore requested that disputed ballots in four counties be counted by hand. Gore’s incompetent advisors badly mismanaged the situation by demanding recounts in only four rather than in all counties, and of “undervotes” but not “overvotes.”

The final tally of December 2000 did not actually recount all of the state’s ballots.

There were the infamous disputes over chads, hanging chads, and dimples, with different judgments among counties and counters, etc.  As an AP report put it, “In a review of all the state’s disputed ballots, Gore edged ahead under all six scenarios for counting all undervotes and overvotes”—-i.e., counting hanging chads, dimpled chads.  the Palm beach dimpled “double” chads, partially or fully filled ovals on an optical scan, and accurately counted absentee ballots.

D. “Let’s also keep in mind that, in 2000, we hardly had a conservative S.C. Only 3 of the justices (Scalia, Thomas, and Rehnquist) could rightly be called conservative.” Of course, what you mean here by “rightly” is “extreme conservatives,” as opposed to the moderate conservatives that O’Connor and Kennedy occasionally proved themselves to be. Kennedy and O’Connor frequently voted in the majority of 5-4 splits that characterized the Rehnquist court. But they sometimes succumbed to a “tragic tendency” to let reason, fairness, and, yes, justice, take precedence over knee-jerk ideological commitments.

An SC that had a previously demonstrated a fetish for states’ rights decided in this instance to overrule its own philosophy on nonintereference and rejected—-one time only (ooo, dangerous precedent otherwise)—-a state court’s election laws as interpreted by that state’s highest court.  Why? On the embarrassingly obtuse theory that “different counting standards violate the equal protection and due process provisions of the federal constitution,” according to Eric Alterman. (That could apply to the counting methods in any state—-no wonder the SC didn’t want their decision to set a precedent.)

Oh, as O’Connor’s husband explained, Sandy told partygoers at an Election Day fete that what then looked like Gore’s victory was “terrible” and., see, she wanted to retire and didn’t want Al picking her successor. So much for recusing yourself in cases of conflict of interest.

E.Gore wasn’t interested in stealing the election—-he didn’t need to. He won a plurality of the votes 543,416 votes and thus became the candidate since 1888 who clearly did received a plurality of the popular vote rebut not a majority of the Electoral College. So vox populi “we” lost even though “we” won.

F. Did you happen to keep a copy of the receipts for those liberal judges in Florida that Gore “purchased”? Probably next to the receipts for those WMD’s we sold the Iraqis when Rummy and Saddi were still butt buddies.

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By Joe, July 24, 2006 at 11:59 am Link to this comment
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I agree, Hondo is so stupid there is no point in even addressing anything he says.  It is just a waste of time to respone to any of his moronic talking points.

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By Hondo, July 24, 2006 at 11:48 am Link to this comment
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Nice try, Ganderson. Trust me, there won’t be any regime change. I will make a promise to all of you left wing bananas, however. If the Republicans lose either house of Congress in November, I will quit bothering you, AND, I will affix a “Hillary in 2008” bumper sticker to my Chevy minivan with the obscenely low gas mileage!

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By Mad as Hell, July 24, 2006 at 11:28 am Link to this comment
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Why, oh why does Hondo keep calling himself a conservative?  He is nothing of the sort.

No, I don’t think he’s a liberal in disguise, agitating either.

But I don’t think there’s anything conservative about Hondo.  Hondo is a radical reactionary fascist, who waves the flag, sings patriotic songs, but clearly doesn’t give a rat’s posterior about the freedom, democracy and openess these United States are built on.

Like Nazi-Ann Coulter, Hondo wants to see all dissent against Bush crushed, by the intimidation of wiretapping, poking into our private lives, and the end of the long-cherished rights guaranteed to us by Bill of Rights and the 14th Amendment.  I think, secretly in his tiny heart, Hondo thinks the Bill of Rights is at best a scrap of paper, and at worst a Commie plot.  Notice how he throws around the word “Marxist” without ANY idea of what it means, or who advocates marxism?

Like Coulter, Hondo likes to use half-facts and flat out lies.  WMDs?  How come only HE knows about them? How come Bush and Rumsfeld didn’t loudly trumpet that they had found them and the yellow-cake Hondo claims was found? ALL of Bush’s need to justify the war in Iraq would have vanished with their discovery.  It didn’t because it didn’t happen, because Hondo is, of course, lying about it—or worse, lying to himself.  But that’s the mark of a radical reactionary.

Words and arguments don’t mean anything to Hondo—they are no more than tools and red-herrings to toss out to distract and dispel on the way to his twisted Utopia: A place where everyone is forced to live according to the nutty right-wing “Christian” ideal.  I can’t honor them by calling the Christians—they are no such thing, anymore than the Jihadists are true Moslems.

In this “Utopia”, we’ll all have to look the same, dress the same, talk the same, worship the same and never,never, EVER question our leaders on pain of death. Think I exaggerate?  Nazi-Ann advocating arresting anyone who criticized Mad King George for treason and executing them.

But Conservative?  No way! Conservatives believe in things like fiscal responsibility (that’s why so many are dis-illusioned by Mad King George). They DO believe in the US Constitution—they may disagree with interpretations that Liberals have, but they staunchly believe in it—especially things like freedom of speech, and the right to a fair trial.  TRUE conservatives believe in honest ballots and votes, not stolen elections.

And TRUE conservatives HATE government corruption and bribery—that’s why Hondo’s “Christian” buddy, Ralph Reed was sent packing down in Georgia by the real conservatives.  They saw him as the corrupt hypocritical pig he is.

But there IS a society EXACTLY like the one Hondo advocates, exactly like the one he wants us all to live in.  There’s only one catch: It’s a Moslem country and it’s called IRAN!

Hondo, all you gotta is MOVE TO IRAN! They think EXACTLY the way you do.

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By Gandersen, July 24, 2006 at 8:17 am Link to this comment
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Hondo the Hero!

Hey all, Hondo really is a Damocratic Liberal and True American. 
I know many will find it hard to believe, but it is true.  I found this out on another site.

Every time Hondo writes, he helps convince others of the dangers of extremeism.

His mission is to help stir up anger aginst the current conservative movment and the best way to do this is to act like you are a staunch supporter to an extreme. 

Even the most stauch conservatives/Republicans I know(some actually hung pictures of Bush in their house??)  have taken them down.  While they still believe in the conservative agenda understand Bush is a total moron. 

So, do not get too excited about Hondo, this is a smart tactally oriented liberal democrat who is assisting in upcoming regime change. 

So, personally, we shold thank “Hondo” for helping by takeing the extreme conservaive position to help educate and illustrate that
there are a lot of “wackos” out there.

Only a True American Patriot sacrafice themselves like this to help create awarness about the danger of the extreme right in our country.

With Hondo’s help we will overcome the fallacy that one political party has the key to all our countries problems and that God is pulling for one party or country for that matter over another.

Thanks Hondo, keep it up.  The more insane rantings the better, it truly helps the liberal movement.

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By Hondo, July 23, 2006 at 9:36 pm Link to this comment
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Bukko, how good of you to join us in this discussion! Regretably, you have some “untruths” in your post (some people might call that lying), so please allow me to set the record straight. You say that Christian conservatives like me are a minority and you call us a cult. How false is that statement? Let me count the ways! Approximately 76% of Americans identify themselves as Christian. From 1974-2004, the percentage of Americans who self-identify as extremely conservative, conservative, and slightly conservative has ranged anywhere from 25% to 36%, with the percentage trending upward in the later years. The percentage of Americans who self-identify as extremely liberal, liberal, and slightly liberal has ranged anywhere from 14% to 23%. Those figures come from The American National Election Studies. George Bush calls himself a Christian conservative, and he got almost 63 million Americans to vote for him in 2004. That’s a cult? Maybe in the Outback, but not here in the good old U.S.A.!
One other thing, Crocodile Bukko. PLEASE get over this stolen election fantasy that you and so many other delusional liberals have bought into. We won, you lost, get over it! There is not one shred of credible evidence that either election was stolen, although I will say that Al “Broken Thermometer” Gore did his absolute best to steal the 2000 election before the Supreme Court put his criminal enterprise on ice.
As for VietVet—I will not shut up. I am so sick and tired of liberal lies, hypocracy and treason that I am going to continue to spread the truth of Christian conservatism in those places where the truth is not normally heard. You’re stuck with me for as long as I have a computer!
One last comment for John U.—you gave us a teachable moment with your last post. I presented facts concerning SAT scores and you responded with “You can’t tell me…”. What a perfect illustration of the difference between conservative truth and liberal fantasy! You Da Man!

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By Magginkat, July 23, 2006 at 10:04 am Link to this comment
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Israel has the same problem as the US.  It is being governed by a bunch of greedy, cold blooded, blood thirsty thugs, doing their dirty work in the name of god, of course.

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By Gonnuts, July 23, 2006 at 7:34 am Link to this comment
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What really twists my wig is we give Israel billions in arms and aid, one would think that bush would have asked Israel to cease fire long enough to get the 25,000 innocent Americans out of harms way before Israel started using the weapons WE GAVE THEM!
It is bush’s sworn duty to protect American lives. It’s become apparent that bush neither cares to uphold his word or that he gives a tinker’s damn about anyone but himself.
After viewing bush’s vulgar, disengaged, imbecilic display it should be clear to anyone with half a brain that not only is bush unfit to run a hot-dog stand, he’s clinically insane.

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By Bukko in Australia, July 23, 2006 at 4:29 am Link to this comment
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To those of you who have tried to respond to Hondo, I echo the sentiments of VietVet. Why bother?

This guy has popped up on several other threads with the same Fox/Limbaugh talking points. I thought at first he might be a troll who tries to stir things up just to get people enraged (like I do when I snark at right-wing sites.) But mere provocateurs try to keep it short. More rage for less work.

But this guy seems to absolutely believe it, and wants to blabber on at great length. It’s like Moonies or other people in a cult. The good thing is, they’re in the minority. The bad thing is, the policy thrust of the Cheney administration and their propaganda organ at Faux News is entirely aimed at such folks. They are the only ones whose opinions the administration cares about.

I enjoy the reality-based opinions I see on this site. Kudos to Sheer and the other writers here. My question is, what are the rest of you doing besides writing to blogs? How many of you have signed up to be poll-watchers? How many are active with Democratic Party organisations in your district. Pathetic as the Dems might be, they’re the only viable opposition at this point. How many of you march in demos? What are YOU doing to make sure the election won’t be stolen this year like it was in 2000 and 2004?

Of course, I shouldn’t talk. My wife and I emigrated from the U.S. last year because we’re disgusted at what the U.S. has done and mortally afraid of what it’s going to do. But we’re active in Aussie affairs. Good onya to everyone who puts their bodies on the line for the politics of their nation.

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By wilson, July 22, 2006 at 9:08 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Wait!  The first shot was fired when, in l947, the State of Israel was created. And the first
Zionist President Ben-Gurion, said, “A million Arabs aren’t worth one Jewish fingernail”.
But, this is not about Judaism. Its about Zionism. According to Jewsish faith and Torah Law, the Jewish people are forbidden to have their own state, while awaiting the Messiah.
{Tehillim Ch. 127 (Jerursalem Talmud, Tractate
Hagiga 76c). The State of Israel is a heretical regime.    Start from there.

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By Hondo, July 22, 2006 at 8:02 pm Link to this comment
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To all of you who have posted comments—I am absolutely bewildered and amazed at the way in which you view the world around you. I do not understand how you can look at all of the different events that have taken place, both here and abroad, and and so completely misinterpret them. And this isn’t a one-time deal, either. Over and over and over again, the liberal part of the political spectrum in every corner of the world is dangerously, provably wrong on every single issue that confronts us. That is why I say that liberalism is a disease, a cancer, that renders a person totally unable to differentiate fact from fiction, truth from lies, good from evil, and right from wrong.
Several of you express anger over the polarization of American politics and blame it on Bush. This is fiction. When Bush became president, he did just exactly what he promised to do, which was to reach out to Democrats in an attempt to forge a partnership in governing our country. He refused to allow the Justice Dept. to investigate the last minute pardons that Bill Clinton auctioned off to the highest bidders, even though an investigation was warranted. He refused to allow the Justice Dept. to investigate the horrible vandalism that took place at the White House as the juvenile delinquents who made up Clinton’s staff moved out. Bush invited much of the leadership of the Congressional Democrats to the White House to build a partnership to do the country’s business. He even let Ted Kennedy craft domestic legislation to show his sincerity in being a uniter, not a divider. Pres. Bush did this while people like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Ann Coulter were screaming about how naive Bush was. They warned conservatives everywhere that all of this “nicey-nicey” stuff from the president would come back to bite him, because you just can’t trust liberals. Bush ignored the advice, and what happened? The Democrats screwed him! Almost from the beginning, liberals have lied and schemed and even resorted to treason, all in an attempt to undermine this president and regain power in Washington. So don’t call this president a divider; he did everything he could to foster bipartisanship.
Examples of what I’m talking about: Liberals say there have been no WMD found in Iraq and they call Bush a liar. This is a liberal lie. The U.S. has found 500 chemical weapons in Iraq since 2003. These pre-1991 munitions, containing sarin and mustard gas, were all badly corroded, and the chemicals were degraded. As such, they couldn’t have been used as originally produced, but they were still very toxic and could have been (and undoubtedly would have been) repackaged for use by insurgents and terrorists alike. We have found 1 million pounds of yellow cake uranium at a nuclear weapons facility. We found 1.8 tons of partially enriched uranium at the same facility. Liberals respond by chanting “Bush lied, soldiers died.” Liberals ignore the truth because it conflicts with their goal to undermine the president at any cost.
Liberal members of the mainstream media delight in revealing classified national security programs as they undermine our president and the war effort. Liberals say that the wiretapping was illegal and unconstitutional (even though Clinton did the same thing after the Ok. City bombing). U.S. vs Brown and U.S. vs Butenko say you’re wrong. Liberals say they don’t like the bank record program, concede that it wasn’t illegal, but say it should be revealed anyway, all in an attempt to undermine the president and the war effort. Liberals say that the world was better off with Sadaam in power, despite all evidence to the contrary. And now, this “open mic scandal.” Liberals attempting to take small talk from the president and jump to “drugged and demented.” Liberals getting all bent out of shape over “the shoulder massage”, after they completely ignored the actions of the Rapist-In-Chief of the previous administration.
Do you see why I continue to make these posts? I hate liberalism and all of the dishonesty that goes with it. I have nothing but contempt for liberals, because you are dead-set on destroying the America created by our Founding Fathers and replacing it with a more Marxist America. I listen to the drivel that passes for intelligent discourse on the left, and I feel driven to hold it up to ridicule. I am sick and tired of liberal lies and left wing treason, so I will continue to refute all of your nonsense with facts, logic and reason.

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By john u, July 22, 2006 at 4:19 pm Link to this comment
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RE: Hondo’s comment 14783
Last time I checked all states you’re talking about had lower scores and higher drop out rates….you can’t tell me that Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana, Florida, South Carolina, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Kansas etc are stunning intellectual centers of the United States….I should know, since I’m from Texas myself, and outside of Austin (the only county in the state to vote for gay marriage) the state is in a trailer trash rut of tacky urban sprawl and decaying rural areas. Most Bush states had higher crime rates, more abortions, more divorces,lower incomes, etc, etc (Texas can’t seem to get above 45th in anything). If you could be so kind, why don’t you name the 10 of 15 states, etc. you’re referring to.  If you check Media Matters website you can probably find the study (not poll) that showed Fox watchers were at the bottom of actual knowledge and bigger believers in echo chamber hype. O’reilly himself recently attacked Jon Stewart watchers as slacker/stoners, when demographic data for advertisers clearly shows Stewart watchers to have higher incomes and education levels (see Media Matters and put Jon Stewart in the serach engine) if you don’t believe me. Personally I think those Ohio exit polls were right but your beloved Christians stole another election using push polling and all the disenfranchisement techniques they know so well.

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By Laurence Topliffe, July 22, 2006 at 2:40 pm Link to this comment
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This is a letter I sent to elected representatives. There was no response.  I hope you respond positively. 

Things are going to change for the better, hopefully sooner than we think and the change is not going to be insignificant.  It’s going to be very good, very profound and you should know that it’s already started. 

You should pursue what you discover from reading this and what follows.  Everything in this letter you can verify very easily.

(For Peace is a non-profit org I just established in Iowa.)

        For Peace

402 W Broadway Ave, #2

Fairfield, Iowa 52556


.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

Dear Representative,

It is your responsibility, as the elected representative for your district, to do everything humanly, humanely, politically, legally and logically possible to prevent war, and if the nation is engaged in a war, to end it.  That means that when someone comes to you with a proven non-violent way to create peace in the world that is absolutely irrefutable, a way to bring a satisfactory end to the situation in Iraq, your position obligates you to look into it immediately, to confirm or not.  Once it is confirmed, if you discover that your active participation would help, and not only won’t interfere with your political duties but will in fact help you achieve them, your position obligates that you do so.

History has shown that politics, governments and religions are incapable of creating a peaceful world.  Nothing the US or any other government has done has ever created lasting peace.  In fact, governments have even been the instigator of wars.  What’s going on in Iraq is, in my opinion and that of many others, an example.

Religions also have not been able to create peace.  In fact, religions, too, have been the cause of wars.  Nothing has worked—religions, peace treaties, laws, sending countries food, money, etc., nothing.  As worthwhile as some of these and other well-intended efforts have been, they have proven to be incapable of creating a world at peace. 

        There are many non-religious organizations around the world that do various things that they feel will help create a peaceful world.  The key element of many of these organizations is meditation.  The founders and members of these organizations who teach and practice meditation know, because of the knowledge they have and the experience of inner peace they have during and after their meditation that meditation is the only way that world peace will ever be created.  There is a saying that expresses this:  Individual peace is the basis for world peace.  And there are hundreds of published studies that show unequivocably that this is undeniably true.

        The cause of man’s inability to live in peace, as well as all the other problems in the world, such as crime, is man’s undeveloped and disorderly state of consciousness.  It’s been said for some time that Man is using only 5 or 10% of his mental potential.  There are those who will argue this isn’t true but research has shown that in fact it is, although the percent itself may be off and the understanding of what constitutes full mental potential, i.e., how to define it, may not be the way it is thought to be.  As long as this condition exists, as long as Man does nothing to develop his consciousness and create an orderly state of brain functioning, war, and all the other problems the governments exists to prevent or eliminate, will never be eliminated.  By developing human consciousness, all of them will be.  There are four more states of consciousness beyond waking, dreaming and sleeping, all of them providing greater wisdom, health, intelligence, emotional maturity, happiness, goodness, etc.  Developing these states of consciousness is absolutely fundamental to peaceful human co-existence, and meditation is the only way this can be achieved.  Without developing our consciousness, when it comes to creating a peaceful world, everything else is almost a complete waste of time, money, effort and life.

        The quality and quantity of one’s consciousness is dependent on the orderliness of brain functioning, which when present, produces a coherent brain wave pattern.  This orderliness is dependent on the neurons functioning harmoniously.  The greater the orderliness of brain waves, the more neurons there are working in synchrony.  The greater this is, the greater the coherence, the clearer the mind and the healthier, wiser, more caring and happier the person is.  And research has proven that meditation creates this state of mind in the individual and a peaceful influence in the world.

        There are a number of different types of meditation.  Research on one of them, the Transcendental Meditation technique, proves that it has the ability to create world peace.  The over 600 published studies show, among other things, that when the number of TM meditators in an area is 1% of the area’s population, violence and crime in the area declines.  A couple of the websites where you can find this research is, and  The following paragraphs are from these websites.

Reduced Crime Rate and Improved Quality of Life

Maharishi has introduced a new theoretical understanding of society, which concludes that the only practical way to handle large-scale problems is to approach them holistically by creating coherence in collective consciousness. Citing the general principle of physics that the coherent elements of a system exert an influence proportional to their number squared, Maharishi has estimated that one percent of the population practicing the Transcendental Meditation technique—or as few as the square root of one percent practicing the TM-Sidhi program together (in a group)—would be enough to create an influence of coherence in collective consciousness capable of neutralizing the stresses that are the root cause of social problems.

Extensive scientific research on the city, state, national, and international levels has confirmed Maharishi’s prediction. A study of 160 US cities found a significant reduction in crime trend from 1974 to 1978 in proportion to the number of people in the city who had learned the technique by 1973. The study controlled for demographic variables known to influence crime.

Research has further demonstrated that when groups practicing the Transcendental Meditation and TM-Sidhi programs are introduced into a city, state, or country anywhere in the world, then crime decreases, there are fewer traffic accidents, and the quality of life improves in that area.

Studies have shown that when the University group, or a similar group located anywhere in the world, is sufficiently large, that is, approaching the square root of one percent of the world population (8,000), that international relations improve and regional conflicts decrease world-wide.

The conclusion of this research is that the only viable means of reducing and eventually eliminating the age-old problems of society and creating world peace is the ecological and truly systemic approach of creating coherence in collective consciousness through the Transcendental Meditation and TM-Sidhi programs.

      The TM-Sidhi program is what advanced meditators, “sidhas,” do.  During meditation, they introduce a formula that results in them levitating, going two to three feet in the air.  It’s called “yogic flying.”  At the moment of liftoff, the brain wave coherence within and between the brain’s hemispheres is maximum and they experience peace and bliss.  It’s much more powerful than the TM technique and creates the same crime-reducing influence with fewer people if they do their program in a group because of what is called “constructive interference” of the individual brain waves that are generated.

        The coherence they generate in their consciousness radiates throughout the field of consciousness that is at the basis of all of creation and everyone’s mind.  This produces a subtle organizing and peaceful effect on the brains of non-meditators.  As a result, they feel, think and behave better, even though they do not notice anything.  The first research that showed this inspired the writing of a book—The Crime Vaccine.  A recent one about creating a peaceful world is entitled Victory Before War.

        To emphasize again, the only way peace in the world will ever be achieved is through meditation.  All the other means—politics, religions, guns, barriers, laws, etc.—have never worked and they never will as long as most people in the world are not at peace within themselves, as long as their brains function in a disorderly way.  Without the orderliness and the inner peace that accompanies it, most time, money and effort spent is wasted, if the intent is to create world peace.  Orderliness and higher consciousness will automatically create peace.  The facts make it clear that everyone should become a meditator.  Everyone should develop their consciousness by improving their brain functioning.

        I am asking you, pleading with you, to visit the Maharishi University of Management in Fairfield, Iowa and the Office of the US Peace Government.  Go to the domes where the yogic flyers fly every day.  Talk with the students and members and delegates of the US Peace Government.  Look at the research that shows that through this knowledge and the TM and TM-Sidhi techniques, we can create a peaceful world.  AND, PLEASE, LEARN TO MEDITATE YOURSELF!


        I hope, from the depths of my heart, that you will heed what this letter says and learn to meditate.  Once you do, you will understand why meditators feel the way they do.  Hopefully you will be inspired to do what you can to spread its use.  I’m developing a website-—For Peace.  Under this will be various branches:  Businesses for Peace, Cities for Peace, Schools for Peace, Politicians for Peace, etc.  Those who learn to meditate and pay a fee to my non-profit organization—“For Peace,” will have their names on my website and a page with their thoughts plus a link to their website.  I will send them a newsletter and when appropriate support their efforts regarding meditation’s use and possibly even their re-election.  The revenue the website generates will be used to support the teaching of meditation in schools, prisons, etc. 

        Finally, we should be able to assume that those who seek to be and are elected to hold a public office are of the highest character.  We should be able to trust that they are considerate, conscientious, thoughtful, honest, trustworthy, honorable and wise.  Recent events, discoveries and revelations show that this is not always the case.  In fact, since these discoveries have shown that some elected representatives can’t even act within the law themselves, how can they pass laws and expect the citizens to live by them?  When they can’t be honest and act honorably, how can they expect respect from the citizens of this country or any other?  How can they hope to create a nation at peace within itself and with the rest of the world?  When they lie, cheat and steal and otherwise not act in the best interests of the populace and the world, what makes them think that they can create a peaceful world or be respected by the people they are supposed to represent or other nations and their leaders?  I’m not referring to everybody, only those who knowingly violated the law, or ignored the principle of the law, from the president down.  Both the people of our nation and others have suffered as a result.  So has our image and relationship with other countries.  By becoming a meditator, politicians will discover how to end the problems in education, of drug abuse and other crimes, corruption, many health issues, etc.  And they will regain the trust they once had, and strengthen it. 

To all readers:  Peace is everyone’s responsibility.  The more meditators, the sooner a peaceful world will be created.  The sooner our men and women in Iraq and elsewhere will come home.  The sooner the killing of women and children will end.  The sooner humanity can get back to enjoying life without fear.  If you are going to complain about the failure of the government to create peace, and do nothing yourself, then why are you any different?

I am still working on developing my website. 

        A variation of this letter was sent to all senators and state representatives, a few other government officials, the military, the press, and some magazines and talk shows.  I got no reply.  So it’s up to you.  There is not one legitimate reason for anyone to not be in a proven peace-creating program, not one and the Transcendental Meditation program is such a program.  There is no basis for you to walk away from this and at the same time expect others to engage in right action.

I welcome your reply.


Laurence Topliffe

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By Vietnam Vet, July 22, 2006 at 1:40 pm Link to this comment
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For Christ’s sake are we gonna have to put up with Hondo and his bullshit on this subject also? Folks, the best thing is not to address this fool and he will shut up!

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By george, July 22, 2006 at 1:10 pm Link to this comment
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Aside from all of the fiction that Hondo is propagating, he brings rise to a very interesting point.  Bush has completely polarized our society.  Your either 150% behind the current administration or you are an unpatriotic “banana”.  I was watching some of the presidential debated between Nixon and Kennedy from 1960 recently and I was astonished by how much they agreed with each other on most issues.  Furthermore, they were polite with each other.  It wasn’t the kind of argumentative garbage we hear today where people like Hondo make generalizations based on fear and hate (i.e. “liberals, in general, being too stupid to breathe”).  I am completely fed up with the lack of harmony between people these days.  I can only take comfort in the knowledge that guys like Hondo, Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld are all mortal.  So Hondo, you go ahead and continue to make propositions of hate and spite the rest of your days.  You continue to make a complete fool out of all that you “believe” in.  I on the other hand choose to find good in people which unfortunately is becoming more and more difficult to do these days.

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By Mad As Hell, July 22, 2006 at 8:05 am Link to this comment
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Hondo, the talking puppet in his many obfuscations and untrue “facts” says WMDs were found in Iraq. 

How come this tid-bit of news was not only missed by the MSM, but by Fox/Pravda?  After the invasion we replace Hans Blix’s 60 investigators with over 150,000 ARMED investigators—and still didn’t find any WMDs—unless you count the chlorine Ahmad Chalabi has for his US-bought swimming pool!

Goebbels said keep telling the great lie and people will eventually believe it.  Hondo is helping do just that.

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By Hondo, July 22, 2006 at 4:48 am Link to this comment
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John U.—I have never seen those polls on FOX News you speak of. I suspect they are about as reliable as the 2004 presidential election exit polls were, and we all know how bogus those exit polls were. I have seen, however, the data on SAT scores for high school kids around the country. 10 out of the top 15 states in SAT scores voted for Bush. 21 of the top 30 states voted for Bush. 6 of the worst 10 voted for Kerry. Bottom line—high school kids from liberal states are less educated than their conservative counterparts. I’m certain that those lesser educated kids grow up to be lesser educated adults who spew their liberal ignorance all over

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By Mike, July 22, 2006 at 3:25 am Link to this comment
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Link to Butchers For Democracy in the Middle East.

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By disgusted, July 22, 2006 at 2:59 am Link to this comment
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When I checked to be notified about a
posting I made, I was not informed that
I’d get a barage of emails, at least 40
a day on every posting listed. I contacted to be removed from the
list but the notices keep coming
my real e mail is listed with you, Now get me

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By Gandersen, July 21, 2006 at 8:35 pm Link to this comment
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Comment to Hondo #14737

Our wonderful slime ball president who’s but your head is burried in has done such a good job “uniting” our country that there are people like you who actually hate liberals just because they are liberals????

Are’t liberals supposed to be christians.  Aren’t Christians supposed to be tolerant?  Does not add up as usual.

Personally, I do not hate conservateives or liberals just, i just dissagree with both sometimes.  But, unlike you I can separate the person from the politics.  I try never to hate anyone.

Never before has out country ever been so divided as now under the “Bush” Adminsitration.

It has absolutely nothing to do with the media, or any other outside influence, it is purely and simply our leader and his administration that are responsible for the situation.  If you are going to give our joke of a president the credit for the good things he does, you had better give him credit for the bad as well. 

He claimed to be a uniter not a divider.  He has created the largest divide in our country and the largest gap between our country and most of the world.  It does not matter if you are conservative or liberal this can in no way be good.

If you think our nation is so strong that it can go it alone for ever or if you happen to think that god blesses our USA over other countries then god help you.

Look at all great societies before our 200+ year old democracy.  All but england come and gone.  Some(Egypt, Rome) lasted for thousands of years and were the center of the world for their time.

Mark my words, with people like you this country is headed for either a civil war or running the risk that 5 or 6 other nations of size will get tired of our BS and decide to put us in our place. 

Oh, and before you say it could not happen, once again, no one ever, ever thought Rome would fall and after 5,000 years no one ever thought Egypt would be just another country.


Proud but lately embarrassed to be an American

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By John U., July 21, 2006 at 7:34 pm Link to this comment
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That Hondo guy sounds like a talking parrot who’s watched too much Rush, O’Reilly and the Coultergeist. Pull yourself together dude! The intellectual stagnation is appalling! Let’s not forget that recent surveys have shown that people who embrace ‘fair and balanced’ Fox are the least aware and knowing about any kind of political affairs. He’s like drowning in his own propaganda.

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By Hondo, July 21, 2006 at 7:13 pm Link to this comment
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Well, Paul Kibble, you certainly got your liberal panties in a bunch over little old conservative me! That’s not unusual. Liberals usually get angry when confronted with facts that contradict their distorted world view. Let’s talk about that world view.
You talk about Bush’s low poll numbers. That’s a fact, but only because he has a tragic tendency to pay too much attention to the left. Examples are the Harriet Meiers nomination (poll numbers went down, then back up after nominating Alito) and the immigration issue (poll numbers down because he refuses to secure the border). Ignorant liberals and their willing accomplices in the treasonous mainstream media like to squeal about how Bush’s numbers are down because he’s too far to the right of most Americans. The facts don’t bear that out. Bush is a moderate Republican who gains points every time he moves to the right. Conservative support has eroded because, too many times, Bush has sided with the liberals. The fact that conservatives are unhappy with Bush doesn’t take away from the fact that nearly 63 million Americans voted for him in the last election, giving him 4 more years. A too moderate Bush is clearly a lesser evil than any of the left wing bananas the Democrats want to trot out.
You say that I equate the war on terror with Iraq. You are right, and you are painfully ignorant if you don’t do the same. You engage in the typical liberal deceit by saying that Bush was forced to admit that Sadaam had nothing to do with 9/11. Bush didn’t have to admit anything, because he never said that Sadaam was tied to 9/11. Not ever did he say that. He did say that there were links between Sadaam and Bin Laden, a fact that has been supported over and over again by both government sources and independent fact-finding commissions. He also said that Sadaam had WMD, another fact which has been proven true (we found them). We are now starting to see evidence that WMD from Sadaam found their way to Syria. In light of recent developments, can you not see that Islamofacism is not confined to one particular country? Thank God Bush is president, and not Kerry or Gore!
You talk about the 2000 and 2004 elections being rigged. That’s typical liberal B.S.—if we lost, we must have been cheated! Here’s a little history lesson for you. Listen and learn. After the 2000 Florida results were announced, the Democrats immediately cried “foul”. It seems that many of the voters in the more liberal precincts were too stupid to fill out their ballots correctly (confirming everything I have ever said about liberals, in general, being too stupid to breathe). In response to this, Gore demanded a recount in the liberal precincts because, apparently, stupidity equates to disenfranchisement. The Bush team said, fine, we agree to a recount, but let’s recount all of Florida’s votes. Gore didn’t want to do that, because he wasn’t interested in truth. He was only interested in stealing the election. As it turned out, the votes in those precincts were recounted, multiple times, and Bush still came out ahead. Gore made it clear that he was going to keep recounting the votes, with the assistance of liberal judges in Florida that he had purchased, until the Supreme Court stepped in and put an end to Gore’s criminal enterprise. Let’s also keep in mind that, in 2000, we hardly had a conservative S.C. Only 3 of the justices (Scalia, Thomas, and Rehnquist) could rightly be called conservative. There were 2 other justices, much more moderate than The Big Three, who also voted against Gore. Bottom line—-you lost, we won. Get over it. In 2004—landslide win for Bush, not even a peep from Kerry/Edwards. You can bet that if there had been even a sniff of real (as opposed to imaginary) cheating on the part of the GOP, Edwards the Mighty Trial Lawyer would have fired away in court. He didn’t because there was no cheating. We won, you lost, get over it!
Oh, by the way, you referenced Robert Kennedy Jr. and his belief that the Ohio election was rigged. Is that the same RFK Jr. who said that the recent spate of hurricanes have occured because Bush is president, and Bush is unfriendly to the environment? Clearly he’s nuts, but I will offer you some facts, just in case you are interested.
FACT—The New York Times (are they part of the right wing conspiracy?) concluded that there was no evidence whatsoever to support the accusation of GOP cheating in 2004.
FACT—Kennedy claims that 357,000 Kerry voters were prevented from voting or had their votes not counted and he cites “Democracy At Risk” as the source. He misquoted them. They said the following:
26% of voters who first registered in 2004 didn’t find their names on the voting rolls. 4% of Kerry voters and 4% of Bush voters were forced to cast provisional ballots. That’s “astounding partisanship?”
Kennedy says that 30,000 voter registrations, all Kerry voters, were purged from the registration list. He has no way of knowing if any of those who were purged were even real people. By the way, the purging was done in accordance with state law.
Kennedy says that 174,000 Kerry voters were “put off” by long lines. The report he was citing put the actual number at 129,000, and said they were evenly split between Kerry and Bush voters.
There’s more, but I think I made my point. Robert Kennedy, Jr. is actually Fox Mulder in disguise. He is a certifiable left wing banana worthy of our contempt and ridicule.
Mr. Kibble, I won’t bother being polite. You are an idiot who believes in conspiracy theories, and you spend way too much time absorbing all of the B.S. on the liberal blogs. All of that liberalism is rotting you heart, your mind, and your soul. I love debating, but I would prefer it if someone with an IQ over room temperature would come forward to debate me.

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By Sergio Rogers, July 21, 2006 at 7:00 pm Link to this comment
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In Dec. 2000, I heard a Nostradomus quatrain that was purported to have said, “In the year of the third millennium, in the seat of greatest power, the village idiot will be brought forth and declared leader.”
Can anyone doubt that soothsayer now (note he didn’t say elected)?

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By PapaB, July 21, 2006 at 5:16 pm Link to this comment
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In comment #14324, “Mad as Hell” wrote:
“Didn’t anybody notice that George the Dictator said he felt like giving UN Secretary General Kofi Anin the following order?
““I felt like telling Kofi to get on the phone with [Syrian leader Bashir] Assad and make something happen.”“

The key words here are “felt like.”  “Felt like” generally indicates the speaker had no intention of acting.  The real irony here is that Kofi Anin did make fair, reasonable, appropriately angry comments about the situation.  Meanwhile, our esteemed leader will continue to put new chips on his shoulder, all the while drawling “watch that sh-t.”

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By bikerdude, July 21, 2006 at 1:41 pm Link to this comment
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Whether Bush is stupid or not doesn’t matter much. He is in place and being handled to deliver the conservative republican agenda. That is working. They will ignore his boorish behavior and his obvious mental lapses as long as he continues to deliver for them. What appears to be stupid to me is that my fellow democrats and progressives can let this behavior continue. We should be denouncing his activities in a loud and persistent way. We should be attacking the MSM for not exposing the lies and demanding the truth. This administration will continue degrading America and Americans until we force them to stop. Impeach, prosecute, incarcerate….

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By Laurence Topliffe, July 21, 2006 at 1:31 pm Link to this comment
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14655 P Toman, I have no idea why you are unable to open the websites I listed.  They all start with www and end with org, except one or two that might end with .com. I suggest you call me at 641-472-7354 or email me at .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address).

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By John U, July 21, 2006 at 12:44 pm Link to this comment
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This just goes to show what a pathetic, embarrassing and incomptetent bunch of idiots we have running and representing the country. Every Bush foreign policy ‘initiative’ has boxed us into a dilemma or corner we can’t back out of (which is the hallmark of failed leadership).  All the neocon predictions of flowers, chocolate, the spread of democracy, sunshine, etc has proven ‘we should have known better’ ridiculous. Now their excuse is we “have to be patient”, “stay the course”, or “we haven’t given it enough time to work”. We’ll be hearing that until they leave office in 2009 and slink back into their hole. Of course, they will never be held to their own phony ‘personal responsibility’ and ‘held accountable’ standard since they are above the law…..and haven’t done one thing for this country.

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By SoonerThought Podcast, July 21, 2006 at 11:31 am Link to this comment
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Mr. S, you nailed it. By the way, whatever happened to the Project for A New American Century crew…they seem strangely silent on this these days…

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By Shairia Moham, July 21, 2006 at 9:37 am Link to this comment
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You people are not on path. We hate bush but we fear him more.  Strength is the only thing that win the day.  Bush is strong and will not stop.  It so funny to see poeple work against the person who will protect people.  One day we have leader like bush any then we win.

Allaha Akc bar

(sorry for bad english spell)

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By P. Toman, July 21, 2006 at 9:13 am Link to this comment
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Very funny (and mean) post by by paul kibble comment #14550. Hondo really is an idiot, huh? Is he the best the right has to offer? Just asking.

Comment #14538 by Gandersen on Hondo: No, I don’t think Hondo’s just having “fun.” He’s one seriously scary dude. 

Laurence Topliffe, Comment #14565, I wanted to check out the websites you mentioned but couldn’t get them to open, any solutions?

Comment #14587 by Fadel Abdallah made me very sad. I think I can understand his anger, but has it really has come to this? I guess it has.

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By georgepwebster, July 21, 2006 at 1:38 am Link to this comment
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The sixty year old who should go to Lebanon is GWB.  So is it true that Karl Rove’s middle name is Christian, and he was born on December 25?  Did he not have birthdays when he was little? Did he get just one present for Christmas and his birthday?

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By Fadel Abdallah, July 20, 2006 at 8:18 pm Link to this comment
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As to what Bush’s open mike reveales, an Arabic proverb speaks to that by saying, “Every earthenware pot oozes the fluid it contains.”

True and to the point as Robert Scheer’ article is, I am really feeling so low and helpless that all we can do is talk! Over the last three weeks, I have been radicalized to the point that if I know that Hamas or Hizbullah will have a use for a sixty-year man who never handled a weapon, I would take the first plane to the Middle East and join their ranks.

I agree with comment 14336 by Sondra, that “we are not free.” Yes, taxation rebellion is one thing we can do collectively and in large numbers. Massive civil disobedience is another; say by 5 million people, walking on the White House and offering Bush to surrender, with a list of crimes against humanity, to be tried as a war criminal. We can then chant the words of the more honorable American who said, “Give me liberty or give me death!”

Until something of substance will happen, I have only the following prayer to repeat: “O Almighty! Kindly send a few meteors on the White House, the Pentagon, the Congress and a bigger one on the whole Israel; for it’s only then that the world would experience peace! Amen.”

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By richard vajs, July 20, 2006 at 8:03 pm Link to this comment
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When it comes to Israel, the Democrats and Republicans are not left-wing/right-wing; they are left cheek and right cheek. (Israel ass-kissers for you dumbshit conservatives out there who may have missed my drift.)

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By August West, July 20, 2006 at 5:26 pm Link to this comment
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The fact that the Decider did nothing at the G8 summit to deal with the Middle East violence is not surprising.  Three days after Hurricane Katrina hit he was playing air guitar at a naval base in San Diego.  Five weeks before the 9/11 he received the Presidential Daily Briefing entitled “Bin Laden Determined to Srike in US” and decisively did nothing.  Immediately after being told the second tower was hit he listened pensively for several minutes as Florida school children read aloud “The Pet Goat,” and followedd this up by glad-handing and a photo op.  I guess in some situations he just doesn’t have the answer in his gut right away.  Mayby he’s just not interested in some stuff that others might consider important.

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By Laurence Topliffe, July 20, 2006 at 5:07 pm Link to this comment
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Complaining about the current administration and ignoring what has been proven to end what they have started or ignored isn’t very wise or useful.  Become a member of the US Peace Government.,,,,,,,,,  DO search for “bubbling bliss of yogic flying.”

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By roooth, July 20, 2006 at 4:06 pm Link to this comment
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Hey Dream Weaver - Thanks for the links: (“Should any of the delusional Republican-types who visit this site actually lack a reason to believe that George Bush is an arrogant cowboy that lacks the mental capabilities necessary to run a small, corner drugstore, much less a large country with nuclear capabilities, just watch: lated&search;= And also watch: lated&search;=.”)

I don’t know what’s scarier: the fact that we have a president obviously in the throes of dementia or addiction and a vp turning the country into his personal piggybank/feifdom, or the idiots who still think Bush is a great leader precisely because he is so stupid (and therefore just like them). 

Clue to Hondo et al: Bush is not right in the head. Period. End of story. There is no debate. The guy with his finger on the button is impaired.

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By paul kibble, July 20, 2006 at 3:44 pm Link to this comment
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Re: Hondo (Comment #14478) It’s always entertaining to watch Hondo, our resident poster boy for cretin’s lib, do his pious Boy Scout routine, hungrily burying his face in Dubya’s ass (after Condie’s removed hers from the Dubster’s crotch).

Since, like most Dittoheads, Hondo is constitutionally incapable of fresh thought or original observation, nowadays his act consists almost entirely of channeling the maligin spirit of notorious she-male Ann Coulter, with occasional (really creepy) impersonations of Bill O’.

(In fact, I recently won a modest bet by wagering that Hondo wouldn’t—-or rather couldn’t—-rebut point-by-point my critique of his typically mindless attack on the threatened closure of one of Mississippi’s last “abortion mills.” Predictably I was right. Hondo can’t hold his own in an authentic debate since that involves careful marshalling of the evidence—-rather than regurgitating Foxpert factoids—- and substituting reasoned argument for unsubstantiated assertion.)

Here are Hondo-want-a cracker’s latest squawking points, faithfully recycled from Godless/Treason or whatever subliterate screed Annie is currently peddling her boney ass to promote.

“This will come a a great big surprise to all of you wacky liberals, but Pres. Bush is not an embarrassment to most Americans, insofar as he has conducted himself in the war on terror.”

Notice how Hondo hedges his bet with the qualifying phrase “insofar as he has conducted himself on the war on terror.” He elsewhere claims “Bush was reelected (rehired) by nearly 63 million Americans to continue the job we originally elected him to do.”

Oh, yeah? Then why are so many of “we” unhappy with his performance? Hondo wouldn’t dare cite the Prez’s general approval ratings, so I’ll do it for him. Voila, some representative poll #‘s (including, ahem, Fox’s) over the last month or so:

                Dates   App Dis
  FOX/Opinion Dynamics RV 7/11-12/06 36 53
  AP-Ipsos *          7/10-12/06 36 63   -
  Gallup             7/6-9/06   40 55 .
  Time             6/27-29/06 35 59
. FOX/Opinion Dynamics RV 6/27-28/06 41 50
  L.A. Times/Bloomberg   6/24-27/06 41 56
. ABC/Washington Post   6/22-25/06 38 60
  Diageo/Hotline RV     6/21-25/06 41 56
. Pew               6/14-19/06 36 54
  CNN               6/14-15/06 37 53

For a graphic representation Georgie’s declining fortunes, consult the graph publish in the very conservative Wall Street JournaL at this website:

Since Hondo is a Dittohead, he of course still equates the invasion of Iraq with “the war on terror,” although even Bush himself was forced acknowledge that Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11. (Of course, Iraq now has plenty of Osama lovers.)

And, re that “war,”  those “treasonous rantings from the left” are apparently osmosing their liberal/secular way into the Republican Party as well:

According to today’s Washington Post:

“Faced with almost daily reports of sectarian carnage in Iraq, congressional Republicans are shifting their message on the war from speaking optimistically of progress to acknowledging the difficulty of the mission and pointing up mistakes in planning and execution. . . .”

“Rank-and file Republicans who once adamantly backed the administration on the war are moving to a two-stage new message, according to some lawmakers. First, Republicans are making it clear to constituents they do not agree with every decision the president has made on Iraq. Then they boil the argument down to two choices: staying and fighting or conceding defeat to a vicious enemy.”

“The shift is subtle, but Republican lawmakers acknowledge that it is no longer tenable to say the news media are ignoring the good news in Iraq and painting an unfair picture of the war.”

“Case in point: Mark Fischenich wrote in the Mankato (Minn.) Free Press yesterday that Minnesota Republican “Congressman Gil Gutknecht found the situation in Iraq more bleak than he anticipated during a weekend visit to the war zone, and said a partial withdrawal of some American troops might be wise.”

“Gutknecht, a strong supporter of the war since it began in March of 2003, told reporters in a telephone conference call Tuesday that American forces appear to have no operational control of much of Baghdad.”

“And just how is that reality?”

“Frank James blogs for the Chicago Tribune:
“‘Well, the situation in Iraq is either looking up or the American effort to produce a viable democracy is going to hell in a handbasket, depending on whom you’d rather believe.’”

“In Tuesday’s New York Times, Edward Wong and Dexter Filkins showed how U.S. soldiers may be getting caught in the middle of that civil war: ‘As sectarian violence soars, many Sunni Arab political and religious leaders once staunchly opposed to the American presence here are now saying they need American troops to protect them from the rampages of Shiite militias and Shiite-run government forces.’”

Meanwhile, the go-it-alone cowboyism that got us into the Iraq quagmire has been abadoned even by the administration. Compare Bush/Condie’s (for them) relatively subdued gestures on behalf of diplomacy as opposed to the kamikaze gunghoism that characterized the run-up to the Iraw debacle. But of course, per the neocon’s master plan, we will attack Syria nd Iran.

Needless to say, Hondo won’t address any of these substantive points because he can’t. What he can do is perch dazedly on Georgie’s shoulder, parroting verbatim every syllable of propaganda that this administration feeds him. But watch out for those droppings, George—-they’re lethal!

Question: was Hondo one of the original participants in Stanley Milgram’s famous Obedience to Authority study? Well, in spirit if not in person.

P.S.: Re Hondo’s “history lesson” to Jerry Alexander: “Bush the man (sic) was fairly and constitutionally elected by the people in 2000.” But perpetual boy wonder/blunder Bush was, of course, appointed to the presidency by a narrow 5-to-4 decision of the Supreme Court, despite the fact that “We the People” favored Al Gore by an overwhelming 500,000 votes. 

Remember this is recent history, and Hondo still can’t get it right. Which explains why he’s unable to grasp the finer points of our earlier history, like, say, the meaning of the Constituition. It’s apparent who needs the history lesson here. But I’m sure his local junior college is offering a remedial course in our nation’s colorful past, with special aids for the ADD-disadvantaged.

As for 2004, Rollling Stone contained a well-documented article by Robert Kennedy, Jr.,  cogently demonstrating that in 2004 the deck was stacked by the Republicans in Ohio and elsewhere. Sour-grapes paranoia? Really? Then rebut the article point by point.

It’s on, motherfucker.

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By roooth, July 20, 2006 at 2:36 pm Link to this comment
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To Mike Anders, you said: “Unfortunately the last Rhodes Scholar they had in the White House will most likely be remembered by History more for what he left on the front of a White House intern’s dress, than for anything else. And they complain about Bush. For shame! Bush has the right idea.”

1. Unfortunately for all of us, a cabal of venal self-serving hypocritical adulterers, including but not limited to Newt, Dole, Scarborough, Hyde, etc. made sure that what we will remember of Clinton’s presidency is the blue dress, because that’s ALL they could get against the best president of the last 40 years. And, if Clinton could run again he would win in a heartbeat, even with rigged electronic voting machines.

2. Bush does not have the right idea. Bush has no idea. He also has no comprehension of world affairs and not much about anything else. Bush is addled. He is not right in the head. He’s also a liar. But, hey, as long as he looks like someone you’d have a beer with….....

3. Because of people like you - clinging to some bizarre psycho illusion that, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, Bush is thoughtful, intelligent and has a plan - my country is going down the toilet and Bush is using the Constitution as toilet paper.

What’s truly sad about your post is your connection of Clinton’s affair w/Monica and his being a Rhodes Scholar. This is part of the Right’s arguement that Bush is great because he isn’t an intellectual.

In light of the incredible mess Bush has made of everything he has touched and the ruin he has brought on this country, you would think that even the most hard-core right-winger would start to see that there are some jobs where a person of above average intelligence and capabilities, not to mention ambition for more than bike riding might be needed for a job like President of the United States.

But no, you guys are like Nixon apologists, no amount of fact or reality will intrude on your illusions.

Fine. But, please, take your illusions somewhere else, I want my country back.

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By Dream Weaver, July 20, 2006 at 2:33 pm Link to this comment
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Should any of the delusional Republican-types who visit this site actually lack a reason to believe that George Bush is an arrogant cowboy that lacks the mental capabilities necessary to run a small, corner drugstore, much less a large country with nuclear capabilities, just watch:;=  And also watch:;=.

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By Gandersen, July 20, 2006 at 2:23 pm Link to this comment
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In Regards to Mike Anders, Comment 14451

Hmm.  what would be better for America or if you want to look at it from a negative view, what would be the lesser of two evils?

Option #1)
A very intellegent man but A president who can not keep it in his pants and lied about it. But, he is well like and effective with other world leaders, he works hard, he is able to gather support from other nations, is able to build relationships so if we need help it is there and ....

option #2)
An extremely low class hick who can barly pronounce words correctly or complete coherant sentances unless scripted. But, he finds a way to keep us at war constantly, uses god shamlelessly to get support, and like our previous leader “lies” to the american public.
PS: he has had far more corrupt leaders in his admin. than I can count.

The way I see it when Clinton was in office, at least only one person really got screwed, sort of. 

It is sad.  American politics is not about good leaders and bad leaders, good policy or bad policy… it is only about “the parties” 

This is so tragic and people do not even realize it.  Bush is a good example of electing a poor leader just becasue he happens to be “republican”.  Sure Clinton was not perfect, but who is.  I can understand wanting a change after 8 years of clinton, but there has to be someone in the republican party better suited to lead.  Oh, wait, it is not about leading, it is about being “electable”  the name “Bush” is electable, regardless of his ability to lead.

In my opinion, Amercians(both parties) do not want a return to Camalot, nor a perfect president as this is not possible.
We would settle for just an honest, hard working leader who really has American interests at heart also also understands we can achieve our goals with out pissing off the world in the process. It is possible to do both.

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By ItalysBadBoy, July 20, 2006 at 2:08 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Hmmmmm….. Let’s turn on the TV and see what our $15 million per day investment into Israel is getting us…... YIKES!!!!  Think it’s about time to trim that allowance and send it the Palestinians?  Maybe write a word or two about how sorry we(US) are about what has happened in their region due to our actions?

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By Gandersen, July 20, 2006 at 1:41 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

This is in response to Hondo comment #14478 or 14424, doesn’t really matter.

Obviously, you are on this site just to have some fun and stir the pot a little, because no one can be this fanatic unless they are on the pay roll of Karly Rove.

If you are the type of American that wants people like Bush in office, then this country is goin to hell in an offering plate.

Since when did it become treasonous to dissagree with your president, or event to call him a feak oil loving rich kid who lied openly to the American people and rigged one probably two elections to get where he is. Or, when did it become treasonous to voice our collective opinion about an administratin that is so corrupt it boggels the mind.  It makes Nixon look like an amature. When is it treasonous to say the moron in charge does not even have the manners to close his mouth while eating, not talk with his mouth full and sit up straight a a table, especially one where you are reprenting 300 million Americans!

When did secular ideas become “Anti-American”?

It became Treasonous when President Bush got in office.  When Clinton was in office bashing the president was almost a national sport.

The current sheep who follow Bush and his corrupt administration have called anything critical of the current dministratin “Treasonous”

You my friend are the real problem with our society, not Bush.  Bush is a moron with crafty devioius advisors.  It is people like you who spend so much time hating democrats and anyone who does not share your belief that you will sacrafice your own rights to get you way.

For the record, I am neither Republican or Demacrat.  I have voted for both depending who the candidate is. That is what will make this country great again, voting for the best leader, not the party.

You, on the other hand would probably vote for satan if he was a republican but not for Jesus if he were a demacrat. 

This will be the undoing of America.  Voting “only your pocket book or only your faith”  Both will ruin this country.

We were once a great country and had the respect of other nations.  Now, we are a bully throwing our weight around by imposing our beliefs on everyone else and using “God” as our excuse.

Many nations throughout history have gone down the road we are and look at them now.  We are not invincible.

If god is watching, and I would bet he his, he is probably crying at all the things being done right now in his name.

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By Craig Emmanuel, July 20, 2006 at 1:11 pm Link to this comment
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Did someone quoted Bill O’Reilly,#14415 by John. John are you really serious about discussing politics? If your answer is yes please don’t bring Bill O’Reilly comments here, he and his comments are laughable. neoconservatives need to remember what got us here in the first place, noeconsevativism, and that is a deadly disease that is eating away at the world we live in. Liberalism is also a disease, but the main think is that it kills no one. If everyone could put idiocy aside for a minute and think rationaly, we could get somewhere. Peace is achievable by knowing your enemy, not killing them.

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By joe, July 20, 2006 at 1:09 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I have to respond to #14415 John…

How many years of catastrophes, incompetence and ignorance do we have to experience before a segment of the population wakes up and sees that their president is an absolute moron of appalling ignorance?

John-are you really that stupid? Are you comparing Bill’s interest in women with GW monumental fuckups?

It seems Miguel was correct, Fascist can only see things one way to the day they die.

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By Merle, July 20, 2006 at 12:34 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I read this website because I cannot watch Bush on TV.  I cringe at his stupid remarks and it makes me sick to my stomach that he is our world leader.  When will he realize that the MIddle East has been in crisis since the time Jesus walked the earth and the people will be at war with each other until the end of time.  We can’t change them or give them peace.  Why don’t we worry about our own country and leave them alone and let them kill each other. I am not a Democrat or Republican.  I hate some of the D views and hate some of the R views.  I do not believe in abortion for myself but I do support stem cell research.

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By sulphurdunn, July 20, 2006 at 11:49 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Where the hell is the Praetorian Guard when you need it?

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