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Thank you, Pat, for the education in liberalism that you have given me. It has been my experience that the disease of liberalism is a cancer of the mind, the heart, and the soul. It renders a person completely unable to differentiate between fact and fiction, between good and evil, and between reality and delusion. You and your like-minded comrads have provided an absolute textbook confirming all of the above.
You say that my opinions are pathetically childish. The opinions I expressed in my posts are that the U.S. military is the finest military force in the history of the world, that the members of our armed forces are intelligent and highly trained, and that the civilized portion of the world owes their very civilized existence to the brave Americans who have fought, bled and died for the cause of freedom. That’s childish? No, it’s not. It’s just true. In WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and on and on, up to the present day, American man and women have gone to every corner of the globe to secure the blessings of liberty for millions of people other than fellow Americans. The aftermath of those wars saw the U.S. spend billions of dollars to rebuild infrastructure that had been destroyed in those wars. Many of the countries we have rebuilt were formerly enemies, yet we reached out to them as new allies. There has never, in the history of the world, been a country that has amassed as much wealth and power, and used it for more good, than the U.S.
You deny saying that Hezbollah is not a terrorist organization. Well you certainly provided a link to a site that said that very thing, and you touted that site as complete truth. That is typical liberalism. Say something completely outrageous, deny you said it, and accuse the listener of being hateful simply because we heard what you said. You say that it would be a waste of your valuable time to respond to the facts I have presented. Typical liberalism. It’s impossible for you to respond because I have presented facts which are easily verifiable, so you choose to insult me instead. You say that there are always two sides to every story. That is actually a true statement. Those two sides are the truth and the fiction. The problem with liberalism is that liberals assign the same moral equivilency to both. It’s not so hard to see the truth. I’ll make a confession--when I graduated from college over 20 years ago, I was a true-red, died-in-the-wool liberal. I had faithfully absorbed all of the liberal claptrap that had been spewed on me by my professors, and I just knew that conservatives were the very picture of evil. A colleague said to me one day, “You’re a smart guy Hondo. Do some research on your own. Do some thinking on your own. Don’t believe liberalism just because some college prof said it was cool to be that way. Analyze the issues for yourself and see where you end up.” I did that, and was completey shocked to find that the bulk of what I had been told by the purveyors of liberalism was pure fiction. You say that I am mindless for believing in the opinions I have expressed. I disagree, because I am supported by facts/logic/reason. The truth remains the truth, no matter how loud the liberal screams to the contrary.

Bukko: Thanks for the kind words.

Hondo: Now I will say it and mean it. You and not just your opinions truly are pathetically childish. I disagree with you because I’m full of HATE??? You don’t have a clue! I detest arguing with anyone let alone a total stranger. Why do you live your on-line life like an attack dog? You clearly don’t want to take part in reasoned sharing of differences of political opinion. You just want to be ‘right’. You don’t respectfully share your views. You beat people with them while abusively name-calling and ridiculing. Why is that?

I never said every single member of Hezbollah isn’t a terrorist, or any of the other exaggerations you’ve attributed to me. I only felt the Galloway video was interesting because someone finally had the guts to state to a clearly biased reporter that reporters are not as unbiased as they claim to be. Contrary to your opinion, there are always two sides to every story and I’m sick of reporters, politicians, and narrow minded people like you who insist there is only one side...your side. We’re not all stupid or uninformed because we don’t view the world through your personal red, white and blue glasses.

You love your country. Great. The rest of us are just as proud of our countries but we don’t treat others as inferior because they’re not “us”. Have you ever even visited anther country or do you just get all your perceptions of them from boob tube newscasters?

Even if I took a week to develop reasoned answers to your every single point with evidence of my own you still wouldn’t accept it. Others have tried on this very blog and you called them liars. I tried and you called me a liar and a slut. You’re so locked into your version of “party politics” that for you there is no middle ground...no opinion but your own.

If it makes you feel good and superior to live such a narrow reality fill your boots. You’re going to get the shock of your life one day when you finally find out world history isn’t quite as dogmatically one-sided as you insist it is. Till then, have a great life...at least till marshal law is declared and you can’t even discuss politics without FEMA’s permission.

I’ve met many people in my 57 years. You absolutely qualify as the most closed minded human being I’ve ever met. Enjoy your land of Oz, Hondo.

Pat: I read your long commentary, and let me say “Good onya!” Heartfelt, well-reasoned and well-written. The world needs more Canadians! I hardly see any down here, and this is a land full of immigrants. I’ve met more Maltese than Canucks. Only one was when my wife and I were handing out fliers for an anti-nuclear power rally prior to Hiroshima day, a young bloke who came down because he married an Aussie gal. I guess the Great White North is a good enough place that people don’t feel compelled to migrate to the Great Red South.

Thank you, Pat, for another teachable moment. I have provided solid evidence to deconstruct your liberal lies. The facts that I have provided are easily verifiable for anyone who wishes to look for the truth. You don’t respond to any of the facts I have provided, and you rant and rave about how Hezbollah is not a terrorist group, Iraqis were better off under Sadaam, the American military is composed of ignorant people, Canada derives no national security benefits from the U.S.A., and the rest of the world has received no benefit from America whatsoever. You do this because your liberal ideology has imbued you with a hate that has made you deaf, dumb and blind to all that is true and real in this world. You say that the reason why you don’t respond to the facts/logic/reason that I have presented is because you don’t have time, and because you are being considerate to the other liberals on this site. That’s BS and you know it. Liberals don’t respond to conservative truth simply because self evident truth is impossible to refute.
Let’s end our lesson today with a little current events exercise. Everbody, I’m sure, is aware of the Islamofacist terrorist scheme that was thwarted this week. The U.S. and Great Britain worked together, shared intelligence, relied on info gathered through the NSA wiretapping program, and saved who knows how many lives. Thank God we have a President and an administration that have the courage to defend our country, and other countries around the world, despite the constant barrage of left wing lunacy spewed in their direction on a daily basis. Here endeth the lesson.

Hondo: I just read your last two posts. One of Hitler’s top henchmen was reputed to have made a statement that directly relates to what is clearly your personal brand of ideology. I won’t waste time looking for the exact quote since it is the idea I want to convey rather than the exact words.

Paraphrased, he basically said that if you want the people to believe a lie, just keep on saying it loud and long enough and eventually most of the people will begin to believe it, (specifically because it’s being said by people they have accepted as being in authority over them). He absolutely proved it was effective (and today’s advertisers make an extremely good living using this same technique).

By the lies Hitler and his cabal told repeatedly to the German sheeple, (because the sheeple chose to believe their leaders rather than their own eyes), Hitler’s propaganda convinced them to accept without protest the deaths of not only millions of Jews but millions of Gypsies, and millions of others...basically anyone who dared disobey the dictator’s commands or simply if he had any prejudice toward their ‘kind’.

There are many people in every country even today who still turn off their independent thought processes and instead believe only what their chosen leaders and their talking head newscasters tell them as if it’s all gospel truth simply because their leaders claim it is. You are clearly one of them. No matter what you see or hear that gives the lie to your leaders words, you still insist on blindly following your leaders, as if they are incapable of ever being wrong.

I originally believed you were just a guy who got his jollies from stirring the pot with nonsense statements just to watch people get mad. Then I went to your site and actually had a look at what you state there as well. Based on your postings on your own site as well as what you continually spout here, it became clear that you actually truly believe the bull droppings you continually spout.

You’re not just a guy having a little fun by prodding people with a verbal stick. You appear to be something far more deadly...a blind bigot...the kind that would happily volunteer to join Bush’s SS if he had one so you could ‘deal’ more effectively with those of us who don’t bow down and worship your personal choice of dictators...George Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfield, et al. No matter how many laws the leaders you worship continue to put in place to take a way your freedoms while ensuring their own, you still blindly insist that all they do is for the good of the sheeple (whether the rest of us sheeple want it or not).

You have continually accused me and others of refusing to answer your “talking points”. I don’t know why others didn’t waste their time answering every single one of your claims but here’s why I didn’t. I made the deliberate choice not to answer each and every one of your so-called truths specifically because: (A) I know most of the world doesn’t believe as you apparently do, so I felt it would be pointless to argue with you; (B) I didn’t want to get into repeated, extremely long personal disagreements with you or anyone else on what is basically a PUBLIC forum.

You yourself repeatedly chose which parts of people’s comments to give answer to and which to ignore at the same time as you were accusing others of this. You also repeatedly and rudely called others, including the author, “liars” when their opinion differed from your own.

In voicing your brand of truth you claim “Christian Conservative” beliefs. It is so-called Christians like you and George Bush who are giving genuine Christians who simply try to live a life without hate and war a bad reputation as fanatic nut-bars. Tell me Hondo, what would the Jesus you claim to serve think of your continual nasty, hateful attitude toward anyone you disagree with? What would He think of your using words like “liar” and “slut” on anyone who merely chooses to believe differently than you?

You love to prate on about teachable moments while being totally unteachable yourself. You are not only a nationalistic braggart but a blind bigot. You’re so in love with your idea of America as being the be all and end all that you can’t even comprehend how racist you truly are. Yours is the only country on this planet worth living in? The rest of the world should be grateful for your largess? What utter nonsense! It’s people like you that makes people from other countries dislike Americans.

The very fact that you can mouth the unbelievable stupidity that Iraq and Afghanistan are better off because America came over and carpet bombed them with Depleted Uranium to effect the regime change America, not Iraq and Afghanistan wanted is ludicrous! When exactly did the Iraq or Afghan people vote for or against America interfering in their lives? How is Afghanistan better off now that it’s only cash crop is opium and it’s people are oppressed by warlords, who charge them even for the rocks to build their hovels, while their American puppet government cowers in soldier surrounded compounds? How is Iraq better off when they live daily with bullets and bombs in destroyed homes, while their American controlled government tells them what to do?

Your belief that your government is always just and good is as foolish as your president’s belief that people on the other side of the world would welcome America with flower strewn parades while they go about the business of burying their dead children and trying to rebuild their destroyed lives. I feel sorry for people like you, because your kind are destroying this planet with your pride, hatred and blind bigotry.

How would you feel if Canada and Mexico decided your country needed regime change (which many of us do happen to long for) and decided to march on Washington? But of course we’d have to weaken you with many years of sanctions first, like your country did to Iraq and Afghanistan. Then we’d have to use the UN to disarm you so you’d be easy pickings like you did to Iraq and Afghanistan. Then we’d have to carpet bomb you with 2000 tons of DU munitions like you did to Iraq and Afghanistan so your soldiers would begin to sicken and die with multiple cancers. Then finally, once we wore you down every which way from Sunday, we’d just trot into Washington and arrest your leaders and put them on trial for war crimes against the countries they’ve invaded, like America is doing in Iraq.

For any that escape we can make up a card game offering big time prize money to any turncoat willing to turn in any American leader who escaped (just like a lottery...wow five million bucks for the Prez or his father or a million for his brother...hey soldier he’s right over here hiding in this basement...can I have my millions now please). After all its all just a game right. Isn’t that what many of your Iraqi troops have said when asked how it felt to kill those they’ve been told are terrorists rather than men fighting to free their homes of foreign aggressors..."killing these Muslim ‘terrorists’ is just like playing a video game!” (Oops that one was just a kid...ah well at least he/she won’t grow up to be a terrorist).

To those Iraqi it’s no video game, Hondo. It’s their babies, not yours, who are dying. It’s their homes, not yours, being blown up by your American war machine. It’s them, not you, who are facing the bombs and bullets and guard dogs and prisons and torture, and hunger and thirst and rape and death and death and death and death, and death!

Right now all of Iraq and Afghanistan are currently “Katrina” victims on a nation-wide and far more severe scale. Only nobody is providing them with FEMA trailers to live in after their homes are blasted to rubble. And there’s no Oprah to encourage others to donate homes and household goods to replace what they’ve had destroyed. And no jobs to go back to. And no farms left to grow their food on because American soldiers were ordered to destroy those farms to try and force them to say where soldiers might be hiding. And for this you believe they’re THANKFUL to America and BETTER OFF? What fool’s paradise do you actually live in?

I wish you could spend just one week in what’s left of an Iraqi home, wearing their clothing and with your skin tanned so you will look just like one of them to those friendly but trigger-happy American soldiers, so you could FINALLY see and experience what you feel they are supposed to be grateful to America for. Maybe then you’d finally stop calling those of us who hate war liars and sluts!

And maybe then you’d realize why so many of them have become guerilla fighters that are using the only means they have to try and stop any more of the giant American war machine from killing any more of their children. Maybe then you’d finally see your war mongering leaders for what they really are. They’re all carbon copies of “Madeline Albright”...no number of innocent dead Arab children too high a price to pay for regime change!

Till you’ve lived what they have to live on a daily basis, YOU KNOW NOTHING!

Pat provides us with a link that states that Hezbollah is not a terrorist organization, and calls that truth that the mainstream media doesn’t have the courage to report. What more proof do we need? This kind of radical liberalism is a cancer of the heart, the soul and the brain. It renders a person completely incapable of discerning fact from fiction or good from evil. Pat, do you truly believe that Hezbollah is not a terrorist organization? How do you expect anyone to take you seriously with that kind of cockamamie belief system? It is, in fact, self evident that Hezbollah is a terrorist organization. Self evident, anyway, to anyone who isn’t blinded by ideology.

Well, here we are at another teachable moment. Comment #17126 contained several facts which, in true liberal fashion, Bukko and Pat ignored. It’s easy to be deceived when you ignore the facts, isn’t it? The one fact which Pat responded directly to was the one about the good people of Iraq and Afghanistan being better off today than they were before. Pat confuses the actions of the terrorists with the actions and beliefs of the law abiding citizens in those countries. I thought that liberals were supposed to be all about nuanced thought processes. Clearly that isn’t true, so I will explain something to you. The terrorists want us gone, so they blow up bombs and they shoot at us. The law abiding citizens are grateful for our military presence and our fight for freedom from terrorism. The war will be over when the terrorists are completely destroyed. We have a president who is committed to that goal, and for that i am grateful.

Here’s a little bit of truth that main stream media won’t print. Thank God there are still a few people with the guts to stand up to corrupt politicians and the main stream media who enable them. Their deliberate manipulation of news storys into corrupted and biased reporting is shameful and disgusting.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14391.htm

Maybe another phony terrorist attack before
November Elections- l. “to preserve GOP control of Congress” (why it works that way, I’ll never understand) 2. Provide excuse for nuking Iran.
WAS CALLED OFF?, since Israel already has the excuse, that Iran is “the support of Hezzbollah”.
Isn’t all this shite Insane? Beyond Insane.. Beyond Sick… so what’s left?

Pat: It is a shame that movements are defined in the public mind by their extremists. The American left wing was tarred by the radicals who bombed campus buildings, Islam has been defamed by terrorists like Osama bin Laden, and Christianity is denigrated by nitwits like those preachers whose names you’re too kind to mention. I worked at several Catholic hospitals in the U.S. and I’d feel honoured when I’d have priests as patients. After the sex abuse scandals broke, I’d look at them and think “Were you one?”

I used to think that Hondo was an intelligent provocateur, spouting outrageous nonsense to get a rise out of people. But when he repeats statements like “life is better now in Iraq” in this forum and his own blog, I believe he’s stating his heartfelt opinion. Utterly wrong, of course. Everyone who knows anything realises life is worse under U.S. occupation than it was under Saddam. Imagine—my country made a living hell even worse! But if you’ve dealt with delusional people, you’ve seen how they can fool themselves.

I know Australia will suffer when what’s coming finally happens. I think they will suffer less, because the people here care for each other. Kinda like Canucks in that respect. Comes from that underlying doughty British spirit, and having to rely on each other to survive in a harsh landscape.

But we didn’t come here for comfort. It was morality. My wife and I aren’t religious, but we didn’t want it on our consciences that we stayed in a country that was going to kill millions with nuclear weapons. That, I fear, is where this will end, with the nuking of Iran, and perhaps Pakistan when the Pakis give H-bombs to Osama in revenge for the attack on their co-religionists.

As for America ucking up Antarctica? Already happening! Look at the melting ice shelves… Global warming will make Canada a more desirable vacation spot, though

Hi there Bukko: You can just bet your boots we have many politically brain dead in Canada too. Some are even in our government...like our new Prime Minister! (I didn’t vote for him. I found him too fond of US/British policy). And no I didn’t know ‘Archie’ had a site where he can rant to the like-minded. But it doesn’t surprise me. That kind of mindset likes an audience.

As a Christian myself, I find “Archie Bunker’s” brand of ‘christian(?)’ belief really sickening because all genuine Christians world-wide have begun to be labeled as crazy fanatics specifically because of ding bats like Bush and Archie and some of the big name American, so-called preachers (I won’t bother to say any names as their money grubbing and war mongering ways and their butt-kissing endorsement of the Shrub’s disastrous war policies are well known.

People like these sometimes make me ashamed to even be called a ‘Christian’. The very Bible the Shrub and Archie claim to believe in stated it clearly...Blessed are the peacemakers. Their very war lust and lack of concern for the innocent non-combatants shows they are not and never were genuine Christians. I only wish more people, especially reporters, could see the difference between the real thing and the ‘lying & deceiving’ hypocrites who preach what they don’t live.

Although I greatly appreciated your concern for my feelings, I was never steaming angry...just disgusted. Before retiring I was an ordained minister and a crisis counselor. I’ve dealt with the delusional before. His statements went so far beyond rational I can’t believe anyone on this planet could possibly be that big a simpleton politically. Not even someone trying to be faithful to their leader out of patriotism could possibly be that unenlightened. He is either: (A) a liar who doesn’t even believe his own drivel but who is simply trying to tick people off to get his jollies (like a little boy who likes to fart and burp to irritate those around him); or (B) he really is a genuinely delusional wing nut seriously in need of medical help. Either way I never took his comments very seriously.

You were right about one thing Bukko...Canada is almost certainly in for some serious trouble in the not too distant future. Some of our leaders have joined the world’s elite, ‘let’s see how many countries we can screw up while making a few extra war profits’ club. Already Canadian soldiers have begun to be specifically targeted by the Afghan forces. Why? Because although we were only there in a peace-keeping/observer role before, we’ve switched to being part of the problem Shrub & Co. created. If it keeps up we’ll end up with the same reputation as America and Briton and will begin to face the same sort of retaliation.

When people have no war making equipment as America, Briton and Israel do, they are left only with guerrilla tactics to try to defeat their oppressors. Sooner or later we will face those freedom fighters (labeled terrorists by their big bully oppressors) unless we return to a peace keeping role.

By the way, did you enjoy the rant that Iraq, Afghanistan, Japan, and even all of Europe are only free because America and nobody else died to make them free? “ My favorite part was how Iraq and Afghanistan are grateful for America’s help and that they’re now better off. I wonder if that’s why they’re so busy these days thanking their American liberators with suicide bombs and bullets in such great numbers? Maybe they just want to return America’s gift ‘in kind’.

I’m glad you found a better place to live even though I believe when it all hits the fan, it will hit you as well, because Austrailia is part of the ‘coalition of the willing’ too. With the help of all the self-proclaimed peaceniks like Bush, Blair, et al, I doubt there’s a safe place left on this planet...except maybe Antarctica. But give them time. They’ll screw up that continent too sooner or later.

How are you going Pat? When Aussies hear my accent, they ask “Are you Canadian?” That’s in part because I don’t have any particular regional American tone, but mainly because it’s highly insulting to ask a Canadian if they’re a Yank! That’s how horrible it is in the world’s eyes to be an American today. People get angry if someone thinks they are one…

I apologise for the inconsiderate actions of my countrymen like Hondo. He and his ilk are in the minority. However, the current administration in Washington D.C. only cares about the opinion of this deluded few. Sadly, all of President Cheney’s actions are designed to appeal to this paranoid nativist fringe. Do they have many such types in Canada? Do they have any political influence?

I appreciate reading your posts, even though they have no effect on the intended target. Do you know that Hondo has a blog called ChristianConservatives.Blogspot.com I shudder to think what Jesus would think of a so-called Christian who calls a peaceful grandmother a “slut.” It was Jesus who stepped in to protect an adulterous woman from being stoned. The so-called Christians in my homeland are actually Pharisees. I’m so glad I’m an athiest.

My wife and I considered emigrating to Canada. That would have been a lot easier than Australia. Unfortunately, when the U.S. economy implodes due to the financal mismanagement of the Republican cabaal, it’s going to take Canada down with it. Good luck, Canucks. You know what they call you down here? “The world’s second-best Australians”

Pat--Thank you for proving to all of the assembled masses that my characterization of you was 100% accurate. I have rarely seen such a massive amount of ignorance displayed in one written statement. Let’s deconstruct your liberal lies and see what the facts really are.
1. Canada doesn’t need our protection? Tell that to your prime minister, who still has his head firmly attached to his torso thanks to American Homeland Security. It’s mighty cheeky of you to say you don’t need our help, when you know full well that we will continue to protect you free of charge. I would prefer a simple “thank you”, but apparently gratitude isn’t part of your DNA. By the way, how about Japan, all of Europe, Iraq and Afghanistan as countries/regions that are vastly better off because America sacrificed life and limb to help? You ignorance on this subject makes me glad that my kids don’t go to school in Canada!
2. Torture/horrible conditions at Gitmo? Not according to the bipartisan group of U.S. Congressmen who toured the facility. All of them (with the exception of the always amusing Swim Coach--Ted Kennedy) proclaimed that all Gitmo prisoners were well treated.
3. Half a million Iraqi children dead because of U.S. sanctions? Pull your head out honey! You are refering to the U.N. Oil For Food debacle which killed almost as many Iraqis as Saddam did.
4. You cited American reporters as your source for info about military recruitment. You probably don’t realize this, but about half of everything in the American mainstream media is made up, including the info you just cited. In Canada that percentage rises to about 70%. An adequate educational system would probably enable you to think more independently, but, hey, what do I know? I’m just a conservative living in the greatest country in the history of the world that saves your bacon on a daily basis!

I hereby extend an apology, in advance, to those who are actually intelligent, and caring Americans. What I’m about to say is not my view of you who are actually capable of reasoned thought. My apology also to those American soldiers who genuinely care for the civilians they are supposed to be helping. I know not all American military personnel are as hateful as some have become as a result of the horrors they live on a daily basis.

*******************************************

Hey there “low”: (thanks for the “Hondo” name translation, Fadel...it suits him). My final act of time wasted replying to “low’ will be these concluding remarks:

I’ve tried to be civilized, polite and restrained in my comments to you “Hondo” but apparently you just don’t know when to quit exposing your stupidity. So here goes!

Is your real name Archie Bunker, well known to all who loved that show, as the most clueless of American patriots? Are you really as stupid, dense and rudely ignorant as you are working so hard at making yourself out to be? Are you truly only polite to those who bask in and worship your extremely limited version of enlightenment as Archie did”, O ye who art in the extreme minority of world opinion?

Regarding your unbelievably moronic claim that America is all that keeps Canada safe...which is the only reason I bothered to waste my time answering your foolishness…

Canadians have never needed and currently still do not need or want America’s help because even us dumb hick Canadians have clearly seen that every country America decides to help sooner or later ends up as either an American State, an American protectorate, or a DU coated, bombed to stone-age level, useless wasteland full of cancer-ridden, crippled, starving, homeless victims of US helpfulness. Take a look at Iraq and Afghanistan for two excellent and current examples of American helpfulness. Ah well at least your prez found somewhere to store/dispose of his waste DU materials.

Name a country from, oh say, the last 25 years of American helpfulness (we’ll stick to those years you were supposedly a thinking adult since you said you’re 46 now) that honestly believes it’s better off after America has come along to HELP them? And name any of them that actually asked for America’s help in destroying their country! At least under dictator Saddam the Iraqi still had homes and jobs, and food, and live children.

They can’t say that any more after all America’s help can they! But then I just bet you would agree with Madeline Albright who stated on TV before the world that half a million Iraqi children dead of American sanctions over a ten year period was a small price to pay for regime change. And that doesn’t even include the new batch of Iraqi civilians your soldier friends have helped to find freedom over the last three years. Your prez helped them to freedom alright. He just neglected to mention their freedom would be found in mass graves throughout Iraq, as a direct result of the help they received from their liberators.

And we won’t even discuss the many reports, by female American soldiers, let alone Iraqi women, as well as men and boys imprisoned at Abu Graib, of how frequently a few of America’s brave boys can’t even keep their peckers in their pants, let alone their bullets in their guns when they’re around innocent civilians, or female military personnel who make the mistake of not travelling in packs even to the bathroom or shower. It’s pretty bad when American military women are in more danger from their brothers in arms then they are of the enemy. But I bet you will say you never read any of those storys, right!

And before you say that Iraq and Afghanistan are better off because their leaders killed and tortured some of them, kindly remember the whole world has seen the Guantanamo and Abu Graib photos and it wasn’t Saddam’s soldiers doing all the rape, torture and even murder of civilians and prisoners in those pictures and reports but American and British soldiers.

I believe it’s also America’s leaders who say the Geneva conventions are outdated and should be dispensed with. But, when they torture, it’s probably justified in your view, because your prez says so, right!

My family and many like them have worked hard to keep Canada safe. They are genuine heroes, unlike yourself. You are just a blow hard couch warrior who’s bravery is all in his big mouth rather than his actions.

Canadians don’t need multi-million man armies or multi-trillion dollar war making factories, because we’re not trying to take over the world’s assets for our rich corporations.

We also don’t need your help to be safer from ‘terrorists’ because unlike your buddy and his neo-con-artist friends, Canada doesn’t run around the world stealing other people’s real estate and assets by bombing them with DU till there’s nowhere left in those countries that’s safe to live. Canada doesn’t need to have something like 122 military bases in countries around the world because we don’t try to be the world’s unwanted bully-boy police force.

Our government also hasn’t hired Haliburton to build a bunch of new detention (concentration) camps to hold, I believe the report was up to 2,000,000 dissidents in the near future either. They must be for dissidents because it can’t be for the illegal aliens the Shrub has welcomed to swarm over the border so he can supply cleap labor to all your country’s rich business owners so they won’t have to pay an actual living wage to those who already live in America legally.

My comment re teens and out of work people being part of your military recruitment efforts related directly to repeated news stories from American TV and newspaper reporters, who interviewed a broad selection of your own countrymen. I’ve read many stories of parents and students who continually fight to keep recruiters off school property and of the fact that your schools lose federal funding if they refuse access to recruiters. Why does your military recruit in Junior High and High School? Because your war machine has to get it’s new cannon fodder before their minds develop enough to realize they’re being conned with promises a mature, thinking adult would see through immediately.

I’ve also read American news articles that your valiant ‘war prez’ (who did all his fighting for American freedoms while hiding in the National Guard) is offering American citizenship to Mexican and other foreigners willing to serve two years in your military. Of course they’ll probably be dead or dying of bullets, bombs or DU by the time they’ve finished their two years service (unless your prez institutes his stop-loss program with them, like he’s done to current troops), but hey at least they’ll have an American passport while they’re eating DU dust and killing on demand for George and the Veep. If the comments of America’s current war veterans are anything to go by, the ‘new’ passport holders will also have no job and little or no medical coverage in America once they tour of duty is over...if they miraculously survive America’s endless supply of DU munitions...but you can’t have everything can you.

I read just yesterday that 40,000 Americans have gone AWOL since 2000. If that story is true, I guess a lot more (smart) Americans are getting sick of your leader’s never-ending wars too. Hey, I have an idea! Why don’t you go and offer to enlist and go in place of one of them. Ask your teenage kids to go with you if you’re really such a patriot, being as how you’re so brave and such great a supporter of the Shrub’s war efforts. After all, if it’s good for other people’s kids it should be good for you and your kids too. Just don’t come crying when they come home in a body bag or a wheel chair, because, after all, you claim to be in full support of the Shrub’s war effort so if you lose a few of those you love, at least you’re bringing Bush’s version of American democracy to the world.

It was American reporters who mentioned all the recruiters dogging the steps of America’s youth in high schools and universities. It was those they interviewed who said they didn’t see any other choice but to join up because so many can not find work in any other types of jobs. BUT...To any of those who’ve actually WILLINGLY CHOSEN a military career whom I may have offended by my comment I offer apology, but to you “low”, as you said, I offer NONE.

Your comments on this and at least one other blog where I’ve seen your “name” and read your bombastic drivel show you are a foolish and childish boy in a man’s body, who belittles anyone he thinks he can get away with on the flimsiest excuse. You are a verbal bully. Are you a bully in person too?

I think if someone were to steal all your generalistic verbal labels like “liberal”, “conservative”, “Marxist”, “liar”, etc, you would be like a Frenchman with his hands tied behind his back. They talk while gesturing with their hands continually. (I know...my husband is French.) You are unable to address a single point without your never-ending labels and if someone disagrees with you, you’re convinced they’re one of your ‘pet’ labels. For example, I’ve stated clearly that I’m not a “liberal” but your tiny brain insists that anyone who disagrees with you must be a liberal or they’d agree with you.

The last time I directly addressed you I stated that your attitude was pathetic. I’m very sorry for that. I was mistaken. Someone has to actually be able to reason intelligently before thinking people can legitimately call them pathetic. You are living so far inside your own “Archie Bunker” dream world that you are totally incapable of seeing anything that doesn’t fit your own narrow world view. That doesn’t make you pathetic. It just makes you self-deceived. So I apologize for calling you pathetic.

But Fadel, it’s so much fun to irritate these trolls! The trick is to stir them up whilst expending as little effort as possible. Ideally, one writes a short comment which inflames them to blurt out a stem-winding diatribe. The ratio of response to provocation is key! They’re so enraged that it’s not hard to do. Cruel, I admit, like rattling a stick on the fence which encloses a frustrated, barking dog… I used to do that, too!

Pat--Nowhere in your long, rambling screed did I see an apology to our brave men and women of the American military for the way you characterized them (high school kids, out of work moms and dads). Nowhere in your nutty liberal diatribe did you respond to the link that I provided concerning recruitment goals and education level of the recruits. Typical!
You are right about one thing--I overlooked the fact that you are from Canada. My mistake. That does bring up an important question, however. Why are you so ungrateful for the national security that America has freely provided for you? Why aren’t you thanking God daily for the existence of the United States and the freedom we have secured for you and your fellow countrymen? You thank God you are not an American, but you gladly accept the national security perks of being our neighbor. The brave men and women of the U.S. Armed Forces have fought, and bled, and sometimes died to defeat the forces of tyranny which threaten both you and I, and then you demean them. My characterization of you stands, and I make no apology!

Comment # 16821 by Pat:

Thank you dear Pat for your well-reasoned response to this “low” hondo; for “low” is the Spanish nom de plume he himself unwittingly has chosen for himself.

Your’s is the really the final ultimate words to be said about this ugly character. In light of this, may I suggest to everyone who has been annoyed by this evil animal just to stop reading him or responding to him. That would eventually kill him, since he’s a parasite who only thrives on others’ reaction to him.

Hondo: Let me clear up a couple of your misconceptions (not that it will do any good with one as closed-minded as yourself):

1. I’m a 57 year old grandmother and no “slut”, but since you clearly enjoy being so crude fill your boots if that’s what gives you your jollies. I’m also not a liberal or a conservative, but since you obviously believe so strongly in labels as well as in making assumptions, what I really am is very tired of blow-hards like yourself who use the American constitution (which was once one of the greatest documents ever written, but is now, according to your ‘commander in chief’, just another goddamn piece of paper) to try to shout down any opinion other than your own.

By the way, I’m not even American...something for which I thank God on a daily basis. I clearly stated where I’m from in an earlier post, which you might have noticed if you ever read more than the parts of what others say that you don’t like.

2. Not everyone who thinks your president is a dumb-ass war mongering moron is crazy simply because we don’t worship him or his policies the way you clearly do. As you yourself pointed out, your own constitution...you know, the one you so proudly brag about...gives others the right to disagree with your personal world view. But then, apparently you believe your right to freedom of speech is greater than the rest of the world’s since you use terms like “slut” or “Marxist” or “liar” on anyone who has the temerity to dare to disagree with you.

3. I was calling your attitude pathetic, not you personally. Of course I doubt you’d be able to understand that there is a definite difference since subtlety clearly isn’t your strong suit. If I wasn’t clear enough the first time, allow me to reiterate...It was George Bush and his neo-con friends I called war-crazy thugs. At least get your facts straight. If you’re going to quote me at least be accurate.

4. Apparently you really love name calling, since only a pig totally lacking in manners would use such a derogatory term as ‘slut’ on someone who simply disagrees with him politically. Apparently your mommy didn’t teach you how to disagree without using such disgusting and childish words. I didn’t notice you using such sexual slurs with the men who disagreed with you. Was it because I’m a woman that I got the sexual slur included in your diatribe?

5. At no time did I say you had no right to support Bush unless you’re willing to fight America’s bloody, life destroying and never ending wars. I simply asked why you don’t put your money where your mouth is. (And by the way, I didn’t ask why you weren’t fighting in THIS particular conflict. Specifically because I didn’t know your age, I asked where you were in ALL the conflicts America has taken part in during your lifetime. That pretty much took your current age out of the equation. And I guess your answer shows where you’d be if asked to enlist...hiding behind your constitutional right to stay home while others do all the fighting for your freedom to call other people ‘sluts’. Too bad you don’t practice what you preach. You must have been REALLY relieved when that bill your friends in Washington were trying to get approved stated that they wanted to be able to draft all males and females from 18-46 into a minimum of 2 years ‘military or related’ service. What a relief for you. By the time they get it into law you’ll have made it over the cutoff age.

6. I happen to come from a military family and married into the military, so I fully understand the concept of fighting for truth and justice and freedom from oppression, unlike yourself who according to your own words hides behind your constitutional right to stay safe while others fight for you so you can continue to be an armchair warrior like your best buddy George Bush. I just happen to disagree with war mongers who want everyone else but themselves and their children to do the fighting and dying, especially when those wars are nothing less than conflicts fought for power and profit. But then that concept is apparently beyond your understanding.

7. As to the freedoms I enjoy as the result of the efforts of others...My own husband of 39 years spent his entire adult life in the military and saw duty in many places around the world, including alongside Americans, so before you shoot your mouth off any further about my lack of understanding regarding the quality of people willing to serve their country, at least attempt to recognize that others might actually know as much of what they’re talking about as you claim to. My family put their ‘patriotism’ where you only put your flag-waving rhetoric.

If my country were threatened by another my husband would be the first to re-up even though he’s now retired, and I’d be proud of him for doing so, and would look for some way to aid in the war effort myself...but ONLY IF MY COUNTRY WAS ACTUALLY UNDER DIRECT ATTACK FROM A REAL ARMY WITH REAL AIRPLANES, BOMBS AND TROOPS. Unlike America, who has designated itself as the world police when it can’t even take care of policing it’s own borders and who has more criminals and jails to put them in per capita than any other country on this planet according to your own US statistics. Clean up your own country before you seek to clean up everyone else’s, armchair cowboy.

Now to Sheer’s article...You said he had basically nit-picked an ‘off the cuff’ remark in order to ridicule your ‘commander in chief’. Well, since these comments were only one of a whole list of seemingly never ending foot in mouth statements made by you much vaunted ‘commander in chief’, and heard round the world by millions through television broadcasts, why shouldn’t a reporter have the right to comment on them? After all it isn’t as if your ‘commander in chief’ isn’t well known for his verbal gaffs, now is it. He’s not exactly the brightest light bulb in the box. He failed to finish university, he flunked the National Guard, and was even a failure in his own oil business. So it’s hardly a surprise to anyone but you that he sucks as a president too. As far as I’ve ever seen the only thing he’s ever apparently been successful at is his Skull & Bones club and his sending other people to kill for him while he and his family and friends stay home and get rich off the war profits.

Finally...If I’m a ‘slut’ for daring to disagree with you then I guess that would make you George Bush’s ‘pimp’ since you keep trying so hard to sell him to people who can clearly see what you are obviously totally unable to. Thanks anyway but I’d rather have a real man and neither you or Georgie qualify.

Pat: Don’t you realise what this Bush adoration is? A cult! Just like with the Moonies, Jim Jones, David Koresh and others. Kim Jong Il in North Korea also comes to mind. They slavishly devote themselves to defending every twist and turn of the dear leader.

And they’re so ANGRY. You ever notice when debating with a right-winger that the hostility leaps right out at you? They should be happy as pigs in slop, because they control every branch of the U.S. government, but they’re still frantic that things are slipping away. That’s part of the mind control tactics cults use. “You are under threat; bad people want to take things away from you.” That’s why Fox News has to harp about “the War on Christmas.” It fires these people up if they think there’s something to fear.

If it’s any consolation to you, the mindset shown by Hondo is in the minority. Even in the U.S. they’re outnumbered. In Canada, Europe, here in Australia and other parts of the developed world, people accept the reality of global warming, for instance. There are differences of opinion on what to do about it, but people know it’s real. I think that might be the reason such people feel so surly. They know that reality does not conform to their cultish beliefs, and the dissonance is too much for them to handle. So they have to flounder about and insult anyone who tries to shake their false beliefs. They can’t handle the truth. Im pity them…

Thank you, Pat, for living up to every one of my expectations. You have provided us with a teachable moment. Let’s go through all of your “points” (liberal lies) one by one and refute each one with facts.
1. You say that this site has devolved into my personal name calling rant corner. That’s pretty typical of liberals. When a conservative uses facts, logic and reason to refute liberal lies, the conservative is “mean spirited.” If you can’t handle the heat, Pat, stay out of the kitchen.
2. After you criticize me for name-calling, you start calling me names (pathetic, crazy thugs, etc.). So it’s OK for liberals to call conservatives names, but not the other way around. Pat, that makes you a hypocrite. Well, maybe I misspoke there. Being a liberal makes you a hypocrite; everything that follows just falls under the category of “act naturally.”
3. You tell me that I have no right to support Bush’s war policy unless I am willing to sign up and go to the war. I happen to be 46 years old, so that’s impossible, but let’s pretend for a moment that I am actually 22 and perfectly capable of volunteering. If I was 22, and I didn’t want to volunteer, would that disqualify me from supporting the war? Absolutely not. You see, Pat, here in the U.S. we have this thing called a Constitution. Maybe you have heard of it. That Constitution has what’s called a 1st Amendment that guarantees me freedom of speech. I know that freedom of speech is a concept that liberals oppose, but it’s something that conservatives absolutely treasure. That freedom of speech gives me the right to speak the truth to liberal liars like yourself, on a blog that should be called Untruthdig. Besides, you can’t believe how much fun it is for me to read your responses, Pat, and imagine you spitting and cussing and foaming at the mouth. You amuse me!
4. Now the amusement is over. You absolutely pissed me off by characterizing our military as a bunch of high school kids, and out of work moms and dads. Pat, you ignorant slut! You live your life, basking in the glow from the blessings of liberty secured through the blood, sweat, tears and lives of the brave men and women of our armed forces, and then you DARE to insult them. The 1st Amendment gives you the right to do that, but it also gives me the right to repudiate you. Take a look at the following:  http://www.defenselink.ml/News/NewsArticle.aspx?id=334
It will give you some facts about the quality of person who volunteers to fight for the freedoms that you take advantage of.
5. Now, back to the original point of Robert Scheer’s column. I know that you don’t want to discuss that; nobody on this site will debate me on the merits of that column. I’ll give it one more try. Robert Scheer tried to ridicule our Commander-In-Chief because of some off the cuff, small talk kind of remarks that Pres. Bush made. My response? Who cares! Pres. Bush is competent enough at his job that he has kept America safe, and America’s interests safe, from terrorist attack ever since 9/11. That’s a much better record than the Sex Offender-In-Chief had during the 1990’s. Of course, it’s much easier to pay attention to little details like terrorists who want to kill us when you aren’t preoccupied with where your next blowjob is coming from!
Pat, I’m not going anywhere. I will continue to speak the conservative truth on this blog all the way through the 2006 elections. The only way I will stop is if the Dems recapture control of either house (that’s a promise I made in a previous post). I don’t anticipate that happening, so my plan is to continue with my comments up to the 2008 election! Have a ggod day!

It has finally become clear to me...This blog has nothing to do with discussing this or any other article of actual “news”. It has devolved into “Hondo’s” personal name calling rant corner. Anyone who doesn’t see things “according to Hondo” is ignorant, illiterate, and nuts.

Hondo, if you really believe all the crap you continually spout, you are pathetic! The world does not revolve around Saint George and his gang of neo-con war crazy thugs. Nor does it revolve only around you and your personal opinion of everyone who doesn’t happen to agree with your world view.

If you can’t say anything constructive why don’t you just shut up and go somewhere where there are people who believe like you do. Why do you insist on hanging around people you claim are the “insane...Cracked Nut Brigade”, on a site you feel is spouting errors and lies? Go preach to your own choir.

Better yet, (as I said once before) since you believe Georgie’s policies are so good and are saving the world from terrorists rather than creating new ones, why don’t you put your money where your mouth is and go sign up to “fight over there so we won’t have to fight over here”. I hear George’s friends are having trouble getting more high school kids and out of work moms and dads to sign up as cannon fodder. Surely someone as ‘convinced’ as you has the courage of your convictions! Or are you just a bag of piss and wind who doens’t have enough guts to do anything more than sound off with your mouth but not with your actions?

Where were you during all the conflicts America has taken part in? Did you hang out with Georgie in the National Guard or did you just hide from the recruiters under a chair in your own living room? If you like Bush’s policies so much, support him with your actions instead of with your mouth!

To Mad as Hell--You, sir, are insane. “King George” is going to suspend the 2008 election, personally “shut you up”, and institute a facist dictatorship? Wow! I knew going in that there were a lot of crazy people here at truthdig, but you win the golden straitjacket! Do you tape aluminum foil to your bedroom windows so that FOX News and George Bush don’t monitor your brainwaves? Just curious.
Let’s try some facts, Mr. Cuckoo’s Nest. Not one of Pres. Bush’s national security programs has been ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. After all of the weeping and gnashing of teeth, your liberal Democrats voted with the GOP to renew the Patriot Act. Electing Pres. Bush (twice) has allowed the U.S. to suffer only one terrorist attack on U.S. soil or against an American target abroad, as compared to the carnage of the 1990’s (if you need any help refreshing your memory, just ask and we’ll compare lists). Do you ever wonder why Democrats can’t win major elections anymore? It’s because the Democrat party has been hijacked by The Cracked Nut Brigade, and you, sir, are the Head Nut!

Hondo:
You are right.  I MUST be “Crazy as Hell” to argue with someone with such congitive dissonance.

I have not seen you present ONE fact that is verifiable by ANYTHING but your favorite right-wingnut sources.

Sorry.  Quoting Fox/Pravda and Nazi-Anne Coulter and other similar low quality sources, while denouncing anything and everything reputable is neither “proof” nor “fact”.  It’s nice to say that if it’s in the New York Times or the Washington Post or on CNN it must be a lie, but that simply is a mark of being delusional.

Which you are. 

But don’t worry.  If Mad King George keeps going the way he’s going, he’ll find an excuse to suspend the 2008 elections, I’ll be FORCIBLY shut up, and you’ll either be deliriously happy to be living in a true fascist dictatorship, or you’ll wake up and say “What have we done? But I didn’t know!” and trust me, you won’t be forgiven.

Pat--I’ll ask you the same questions I have asked others before you. Do you have difficulty with reading comprehension. Is the inability to comprehend simple English a liberal trait? I commented directly on the Robert Scheer column, the liberal toons yelled, screamed and changed the subject, and here we are. I would love to debate the merits of the Scheer column, but I find myself responding to off-the-topic rants from the cuckoo’s nest.

I happened to read this qoote tonight and immediately thought of you Hondo.

The dangerous patriot: “The one who drifts into chauvinism and exhibits blind enthusiasm for military actions. He is a defender of militarism and its ideals of war and glory. Chauvinism is a proud and bellicose form of patriotism . . . which identifies numerous enemies who can only be dealt with through military power and which equates the national honor with military victory.”: Marine Corps, Colonel James A. Donovan

It sure sounds just like you and your best friend George Bush, Hondo. Did Georgie hire you as his personal cheering section and to promote all his bananna-brained BS about how he’s trying to free the world of terrorists? Or do you just spout your nonsense to irritate people.

I’ve yet to read a single posting of yours that is anything but a bunch of rambling personal rants against anyone who happens to have a different opinion than you, mixed in with a few quotes from some of the neo-con-artists you apparently hero-worship.

Ok...we get it....you like George Bush. Now give it a rest.......Please!!! Other people are as entitled to their opinions as you are to yours, so if you have nothing constructive to say regarding the actual article “What Bush’s Open Mike Revealed” then pleeeeeeese take your rants elsewhere.

Mad as Hell should rename himself “Crazy as Hell”! You continually confuse fact with fiction, which of course is a trait of the insane. You may not like the facts that I have presented here. These facts may make you uncomfortable. That doesn’t change the fact that they are indeed facts. I have presented facts refuting your idiotic claims; facts which come from sources other than the lunatic liberal blogosphere. My facts come from easily verifiable sources. Of course you never respond directly to my facts. You ignore my facts, throw more lies in my direction, and congratulate yourself on what a smart fellow you are. The lunatic fringe of the secular progressive movement never ceases to amaze me!

“Not one of these wingnuts ever responded directly to my comments.”

Yet another lie by Hondo. I, and others have dismantled WITH FACTS each and every one of your parrotted talking points.

The fact that you refuse to listen or acknowledge that your arguments have been addressed and countered is simply a symptom of your own congnitive dissonance.

That means: You don’t like what you see so your brain blanks it out and says it doesn’t exist.  Yet everyone reading your comments and the responses, everyone but you, can see that your points have been addressed, and demolished.

Here’s what reading your posts is like (remember this is an analogy):

Hondo--"It’s raining green cheese over NY,NJ and Ct.”
M.A.H.--"No, It’s not. I’m here in the NY, NJ and Ct. area and it’s raining ordinary water.  Here are pictures and here is a news blog on it.”

Hondo--"M.A.H. How come you won’t respond to my valid points? How come you traitorous liberals never can respond to my points?”

M.A.H.--"But I AM responding, I can SEE the rain out my window, it’s not green cheese. I was just out in it 2 minutes ago and got wet!”

Hondo--"All you lefty commies are destroying the country, and the main stream media is helping you to pretend there is no green cheese raining in the NY, NJ, CT area. That’s why you are helping the terrorists.”

M.A.H--(in exasperation)"Hondo, you are hopelessly deranged.”

Hondo-"AHA!  All you Marxists do is call me names. You can’t refute any of my facts!”

And on and on and on it goes. While this was an exaggerated, invented, fictional discussion, it was EXACTLY like real arguments with you.

Arguing with your cognitive dissonance is pointless.

Sayeth George: I’m almost ashamed that I’ve wasted the past couple of minutes writing a response to you.

Heya mate, don’t be ashamed that you’ve wasted a couple of minutes. I feel sorry for Kibble and others who have taken time to write well-reasoned rebuttals to a deaf person. Better to channel that energy into actual work like putting up political posters, attending activist meetings
in the real world or volunteering to be a poll watcher at the local elections board so the Repigs don’t steal another one.

And take a moment of pity for Hondo. This board is the only socialisation he gets. Here’s a guy with a wife and three kids who spends HOURS banging away at the keyboard instead of being with his family. But they just don’t care what he’s up to. My wife NEVER lets me waste time wanking on blogs at home because she wants to spend that time with me. (Lucky thing that work in my Aussie hospital is so slow that I can do this. Cheers for their high-speed connexion, too!) So talking back to Hondo makes him feel important, like people are actually taking notice of him. I’m sure he wakes up at night with his pulse racing, thinking of how he’s going tom answer back to those treasonous liberals. It’s what Ann Coulter’s book about “How to Talk to a Liberal (if you really must)” told him to do.

Bravo George (#15685). I was going to say exactly the same thing to “Hondo” earlier today but I figured it would only feed his need to argue.

In relation to R. Sheer’s comments about Bush and his perpetual foot in mouth conversations and behavior - What amazes me is the American polls that claimed Bush received such high approval ratings from the American public re the Israel/Lebanon conflict in spite of his continual war mongering comments. There has to be something screwy about those poll figures. Either they are based on HOW the questions were worded (i.e. - to manipulate the results), or who was being polled (i.e. - choosing to poll those likely to be his supporters). One can only believe they’ve been manipulated as effectively as Bush’s last two elections.

I absolutely refuse to believe such an enormous percentage