Re: Comment #10208 by Bruce D.

You are either dangerously ignorant or deliberately spreading a murderous lie.  Check some scientific sources for your information about condoms.  The stats you cite are so far off the mark you should be embarassed.  The idea that condoms don’t prevent the spread of HIV is a deliberate lie repeated again and again by religious fanatics who just love the idea that they are increasing the probability that people engaging in premarital sex will die horrible painfull deaths due to AIDS.

Check the Centers For Disease Control and Prevention web site for accurate information you ignorant murderous fool.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchstp/od/condoms.pdf

I’ve wasted a lot of electrons making noise at the Christians over the course of these past couple of threads.

I’m kind of over it.

I’ve spent a good deal of time reading the the battlecry forums (http://forums.battlecry.com/)  and am deeply saddened by this whole thing.  There are obviously a large number of teenagers out there who are in a great deal of pain and are looking for answers and instead of being given aid they are being fed garbage and filth (your natural desires are evil, everyone who does not believe in this particular religion is going to hell, etc.) and their pain only grows.

It’s clear to me that anyone who sincerely believes this rubbish (by that I’m referring to the bible and everything in it) will never be vulnerable to rational argument.

Many so called liberal Christians point out that there is good stuff in the bible too.  That does not make any difference.  There is loads of bad stuff in there too.  Any you can’t pick and choose, not if this is the divinely inspired work of the creator of the whole universe.

For bad stuff in the bible go to The Skeptics Annotated Bible (http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/)which is an excellent resource on the topic.

“...why behold you the mote that is in your brother’s eye, but consider not the beam that is in your own eye?”  To me, this question points us to a psychology 101 defense mechanism: projection.  When a person is unable to look inward and face their OWN capacity for evil, they see that same evil in OTHER people instead of in themselves, a practice that ends in the demonizing of others. George Bush is very good at this, pronouncing whole countries the “axis of evil”, meanwhile HE is the one waging preemptive war, slaughtering the innocent, and stripping us of our rights in this country, and generally fitting the description of “evil” pretty well. I wish that man would pull the beam out of his own eye.
  The interesting thing is, when you honestly face
the dark, shadowy part of your own nature ( I don’t mean wallowing in it or giving it permission to run wild, but being conscious of it) it becomes much smaller and less threatening. It really only acts horrible when it’s being repressed and denied. Think of a dream in which something scary is chasing you, you stop running and turn around to look at it, suddenly it becomes a house cat rather than a tiger, sometimes it’s even helpful.
  Mr. Luce should hand mirrors out to these kids so they can learn to see themselves. That way they won’t project their own evil onto others. A brown shirt is not a hero’s uniform.

Ahhhh…the new Elmer Gantry only with a satanic twist.

“Why would it be bad for some of our laws to be based on Christian principle?”

Because you don’t just want “some” of the laws to be based on christian principle. Because not every American is christian. Because separation of church and state serves to protect democracy.

In the Book of Moses,chapter 1,The Creation,it is stated that God created the Earth and the Heavens in six days and rested on the seventh.It also states that on day l God created light,but on day 4 it says God created the Sun.If God created the Sun on the 4th day,what is the light he created on day l?

President Bush is very Christ-like and that is why God chose him to be our commander in chief.  Jesus was perfect in every way.  President Bush has never made even one mistake.  For instance, the democrats, who hate America, want to waste our tax money by having “competitive biddding” for government contracts, which is just a lot of red-tape and a waste of money.  President Bush saves our tax money by handing out “no bid contracts”.  President Bush is the Decider.  President Bush gets to decide which corporations get awarded hundred billion dollar contracts, and no one should question him.  For those unpatriotic devils who point to the fact that all the no-bid contracts go to corporations that President Bush and his family hold lots of stock—who cares?  That’s just a coincidence, anyway.  AND PLUS: Jesus said that money is the best thing that God ever invented, and President Bush has every right to make himself rich while he has this opportunity.  If you don’t love President Bush, then you hate America.  Jesus says so.

***Comment #10164 by Jesus is proud and He was there on 5/23 at 9:16 pm
Who’s casting stones? No one is judging anyone. We are merely taking a stand for ourselves. Jesus is behind us one hundred per cent. Everything here can be backed up Biblically. Ask me any question you like, and I will gladly answer with Biblical reference.
******

  Please, enlighten me with what Jesus, the person you say is with you 100%, has to say about homosexuality, violence/war, and money in his words (please don’t quote the “Letters” of the new testament which are not the words of Christ himself, and not the old testament i.e. the Old Covenant)
  I feel that the sad truth is that the Christian Right doesn’t seem capable to get their mind around the words “turn the other cheek”, and the fact that homosexuality was so important to Christ that he seems to have forgoten to mention it.
  The truly frightening aspect of the Christian Right movement is not that it is religious, but that manipulates religion, and ignores the words of Christ himself, in order to demand mindlessness and complete obidience of its followers. Christ spoke of salvation, the words coming out of BattleCry seem to be of a neo-bondage of the youth. If anything, if you really want to know WWJD, I can tell you. He would cry before kicking over your tables.

A revolutionary commie is really not well equipped to deal with this topic. Nor can she be considered a credible source. She starts off totally prejudiced against what’s happening and has no basis of understanding the Christianeze that the conference attendees are interpreting. Of course, to an antagonistic outsider it looks crazy…

By the way…“Reality Check?” The author has obviously not “checked” anything but her limited knowledge that is supplied by her cohorts…condoms were never made to stop STDs the were created to help prevent pregnancy AND they only work against PREGNANCY 70% of the time. Look it up and make it a REAL “Reality Check,” Putting hope in condoms to stop HIV/AIDS and other STDs it pure foolishness.

Truthdig has lost so much credibility by publishing this angry ignoramus’ bile.

A brief response to Comment #10164 by “Jesus is proud and He was there”

You ask “Who’s casting stones? No one is judging anyone.”  I guess calling the non-believers pigs is somehow not judgemental.  Calling indigenous Ecuadoreans “The most violent people in human history” is somehow not judgemental.  Calling women “flea-males,” saying, “Did I say that? Well, if you lie down with dogs…” is somehow not judgemental?  Get your head out of your ass and smell what your shovelling - or more acuratly what the organizers of events like this are shovelling and what you are swallowing hook line and sinker with a big smile on your face and a hearty “Thank you!” to follow. 

Also in that post was “Everything here can be backed up Biblically. Ask me any question you like, and I will gladly answer with Biblical reference.”  That’s the real problem with the bible, isn’t it?  It can be used to justify some of the most brutal practices conceivable including ritual human sacrafice, slavery, murder and (one of my personal favorites) the execution of rape victims because they didn’t scream loud enough.

Had he been there and had he a real human conscience, your fairy tale savior would have wept.

Nice, real nice, Onward Christian Soldiers! It’s a Crusade! Once again, that damn mono-theism causes more trouble than it solves.
One good thing about it’s divisivness: Amedinejad and Bush and Kahane all agree on the basic repressions of individual freedom, in fact, they agree on a whole lotta things and if they ever got together, we’d all be screwed.
Lord, save us from your pinhead fundamentalist followers, please give ‘em enough brains to figure out that a real Christian would rather face lions than fight a war.

To Jesus is proud and He was there. Comment 10164
Ok synce you offered a challang, I will respound.
First: I am an agnostic.  I belive their was a creator but I am nither arogent or follish enough to give the creatoer a name.
Second:  My first commandment is “Treat others as you would have them treat you”
Third (i gues ) is to do no harm.  At least if you can avoid doing so.
I think you will find similar thoughts in the teachings of Christ; the teaching of Mohammad; the teachings of many other wise men.
So my question;  how do you know that Christ and Mohamid were not brothers?
Heck, 2000 years ago ther wasn’t TV, or FM or Satellit radio.
Could it be that ?God?  needed many sons?
I don’t think you wil find that answer in the bibel.  I think wou will have to look into you’re heart.
Andy

Wow. You don’t even see that you’ve laid out your entire problem right here.

Ask me any question you like, and I will gladly answer with Biblical reference.

There’s nothing wrong with reading the Bible or Christianity. There is something very wrong with looking to the Bible for answers to EVERYTHING.

But OK smart guy. How do I get my wireless card on my Thinkpad running under Linux?

Comeon. Gimme a biblical reference.

I find this argument

“Most of this is completely taken out of context. When we say that blood has to be shed, we are reffering to Jesus’ blood that was shed for all souls to be saved.”

very similar to arguments apologists for Islamic fundamentalism use. You know, “Jihad” is just a “spiritual struggle”.

It’s bullshit when it comes with the crescent moon. It’s bullshit when it comes with a cross.

Battlecry really is the American Taliban.

Although it seems irrelevant to nitpick Biblical detail when discussing this fascist youth movement, a previous poster asks where in the Bible is Jesus a ‘bad guy,’ as if he, as a religionist is unfamiliar with the Bible.  Jesus is a violent aggressor when he attacks the money-changers at the temple with a weapon in order to run them off.  Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. Jesus warns us not to love our parents or children too much.  He is openly disrespectful to his own mother and siblings at the wedding feast. Jesus angrily destroyed a fig tree simply because it had no fruit on it in the winter. He killed a herd of pigs for no reason by transferring demons to them and having them jump off a cliff.  He asks that his ‘enemies’ be arrested and murdered before His own eyes.  Jesus expresses his approval of slavery and does not speak against any of the atrocities of the Old Testament. Jesus tells a man whose father had just died to forget about burying him and sarcastically quips, “Let the dead bury the dead.” Jesus refuses to heal the Canaanite woman’s possessed daughter. Jesus tells us what he has planned for those that he dislikes. They will be cast into an “everlasting fire.” Jesus explains why he speaks in parables: to confuse people so they will go to hell.  He is openly insulting and disrespectful to His own disciples.

My point is that religionists seems to have no idea what the Bible says.  They are easy ‘marks’ for fascist organizations like BattleCry - the modern day version of Hitler’s ‘Brown Shirts.’  It is ironic that the message of Jesus fits so nicely with the hate, fear, and violence themes of BattleCry.

-Trip

Wow, this has just converted me to Buddhism. 

Clearly what we are seeing here is the contemporaneous reincarnation of a bunch of former Nazis. Grabbing onto the bursting, overflowing, excessive, wonderful energy of youth for their own empire-building purposes. 

You laugh?

Nobody cometh to God but through Jesus—sure.  And nobody cometh to Jesus but through the youth pastor, apparently. 

Total obedience, obsession with purity, pseudoscience and pseudohistory, grandiosity, reliance on slogans, us-and-them hysteria—these are typical earmarks of a cult, not a religion of wisdom.  And where there’s smoke there’s usually fire—hidden agendas, emotional manipulation, progressive twisting of good intentions, misuse of individuals, escalating demands from members, prohibitions against leaving and—almost always somewhere—financial abuse.

Usually they melt down eventually, but not before doing some people a lot of harm.  This one might have political purposes as well —for instance, romanticizing violence to promote future wars. 

Take care out there.

Jesus Is Dead. Get over it!

The Navy “Seal” is indistinguishable from an Afghan militant physically and probably mentally.

Ron Luce is a modern Charles Manson without the drugs (as far as we know, right?) and with the blessing of our dimwit President.
Evil cults like Battlecry must be destroyed.

Kris_19

So, it doesn’t bother you that Luce calls us nonbelievers “pigs”, and then brings out actual pigs to represent human beings? It doesn’t bother you that their “sexpert” willfully uses false information to mislead young people about sex?  And why must blood be shed?  Hasn’t Christ ALREADY sacrificed for your sins? Does he need to shed MORE? Do you think it’s unreasonable to infer that the blood that must be shed be of nonbelievers by his context?  It is common for followers of biblical text to use certain parts of it to “prove” what they believe is true, and yet completely leave other, undesirable parts out, so I would have to say, “No, it would not be good to have some of our laws based on biblical texts.” Because “cherry-picking” parts shows that the bible isn’t authoritative in every aspect. There are universal “truths” that exist in every religion, namely The Golden Rule. There are precepts that a vast majority of the populace can agree on.  For disagreements, we need spirited debate from all sides so we can come to a consensus, THAT is what our Republic is about.  We do not follow simply because it was written down by MEN centuries ago.  As we grow and evolve our ideas, we find that many of the old ways do not work like they used to. Such is the truth of the sciences.  As we discover new information and data, we change our ideas to reflect this new information.  Religion, by contrast, is firm and unyielding, even in the face of contrary data. Galileo was set under house arrest by the Church for his ideas of a solar-centric universe.  When his findings are replicated, we find that, yes, the data points to a solar-centric universe.  It is shown, scientifically, that condoms and other contraceptives DO work in preventing disease and pregnancy.  To say otherwise is either ignorant or dishonest, and do you think Christ would approve of such dishonesty? Which brings me to my other point: what’s so evil about sex?
  If you check it out, the first two centuries of Christianity frowned upon marriage AT ALL, because copulating was believed to be an act of sin: unnatural and of the devil, whole cities were razed by God-fearing men.  Let me ask you this: which is a better way of preventing unwanted pregnancies?

Teaching a child that sex is evil in the eyes of God unless sanctified in a mystical ceremony…
OR
Teaching a child that sex is the ultimate act of consummation, and the only way our species reproduces.

Mystery breeds curiosity, and it’s shown that a majority of “purity promises” are not upheld, and teens who make these promises are more likely to engage in alternative or “kinky” sex acts.  Rationalisation: “If there’s no chance of pregnancy, is it really sex?”  Well, if you ask Oprah, then yes it is.  My point here is that we, as a species, live to breed.  It’s easily our most powerful drive next to feeding, resting, and deficating.  Not only physically, but socially, too. It takes a great force of will to stave off the pressures of sexual congress.  Even men of God cannot keep to their vows, and secretly seek out relief in perversion.  Now if the Church EVOLVES the idea that priests and nuns must remain separate from their flock because they are held to a “higher” ideal and allow them to marry, how many children do you think will be violated?  Of course, this can never be, because you don’t believe that evolution is a scientific theory, despite the evidence that is clearly abundant if you would only do a bit of research.
  It saddens me that Christ’s humanist ideas are being perverted by those who claim to love and follow him. Were he to return, I imagine him fuming and raging as he did in the temple marketplace, weeping tears of hurt and sorrow, for I truly feel that you are being misled into hatred and anger.  You cannot change the world by turning me into one of you. Oh, and one more question for you to ponder:
How can you believe in something when you don’t understand it? Honestly, is Christ asking this of you, or is Ron Luce?

I was wondering the same thing about that beard. I didn’t think the military has had the pleasure of sporting the giant beard since the civil war.

As an atheist, there is an overwhelming temptation to say “I told you so.” BattleCry is just the tip of the iceberg. These Bible-thumping fascists are present in virtually every community in the U.S., and our tax dollars are subsidizing them through generous tax breaks.

Check out the comments below by the “true believers” and even the “religious moderates.” These people are delusional. They are mentally ill in that they believe in supernatural beings whose existence is not supported by one shred of evidence. If they believed just as fervently in leprechauns or woodland fairies and said so publicly, they probably would be committed to a mental hospital for treatment.

But the madness of religion has been with us for so long and is so accepted that the inmates now are literally running the asylum.

So-called religious moderates—who presumably are less deluded—are especially culpable in the spread of this kind of fanaticism. They are too cowardly to put aside their religious fantasies and face the universe as it is, so they have become the enablers for a new generation of raving Christian fascists.

To hell with you all, I say.

I don’t think anyone is saying that Jesus WASN’T a good guy— The issue that those opposed to Ron Luce’s crusade is that he is NOT following the principles espoused by Jesus.  Jesus preached a message of love and acceptance.  Luce is preaching war, violence, non-tolerance and hatred.

These sociopaths preach genocide in the name of the god of “love”, and their brain dead sheep cry “hosanna!”.  Christianity hasn’t changed since the Inquisition, has it?  Who would jesus torture? Sane people better start taking our local taliban seriously and wake up.  Die Hitler Jügend is alive and well, and flourishing here in the so-called land of the free. The idiotic comments posted here attest to this.  Is it child abuse, to warp the minds of our young people into murderous, misogynistic bigots, merely to serve as robotic cannon fodder for the Bush Imperium?

These young people are only following their elders.  They are parroting their blood-stained Leaders in Christ, George W. Bush and Dick Cheney, as the Hitler Youth idolized their Fuehrer.  Of course, one big difference is that Hitler actually fought in a war.  Bush and Dick are Chickenhawks and the Battle-Cry-Babies are being groomed to be chicken feed - er, cannon fodder.

Jesus wept. (John 11:35)
What hath God wrought? (Samuel F.B. Morse)

are navy SEALs allowed to have beards like the guy in the picture?

Who’s casting stones? No one is judging anyone. We are merely taking a stand for ourselves. Jesus is behind us one hundred per cent. Everything here can be backed up Biblically. Ask me any question you like, and I will gladly answer with Biblical reference.

Can anyone give me a good example of how Jesus was a bad guy? If not, then why are Christians so scary? Our main goal is to be Christ-like. What is so scary about Ron Luce spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ? Clearly he is not talking about a physical war involving murder. This is not completely political. That is a small part of the plan to bring morals back to this nation. Why would it be bad for some of our laws to be based on Christian principle? If the laws have to be made through our legislative system and they have to be constitutional, no ones rights are going to be taken away. The only way that we are connected to Bush is that he is openly a Christian. We also choose to forgive him for any mistakes he makes. Well I love you all.

-in service of the King

Most of this is completely taken out of context. When we say that blood has to be shed, we are reffering to Jesus’ blood that was shed for all souls to be saved. The reason the Seals are used for this event is that most of the things they learned can be used analogously with the spiritual battle. This is a battle that the apostle Paul mentions in Eph 6. That is also the reference that Ron was using when he was talking about the shield of faith, and the sword of the spirit (emphasis on spirit). Lastly, none of us are scared into anything. God has not given you a spirit of fear, but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. Those who went to the rally chose to. We are obeying God. There is no fear in that. If anyone would like to discuss it further I would be glad to answer questions. .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

Right Wing Christianity has been building toward this moment in history for decades and now they are beginning to really come out in the open and show their true colors.  Their movement is truly one of anachronistic, fascist, mysticism.

The increasingly strident militancy (and militarism) of this movement points clearly at their true intentions; the fulfillment of the apocalyptic prophesies of the Old and New Testaments by willful and purposeful action, the establishment of ‘God’s Kingdom on Earth’, and the empowerment of themselves to rule over this kingdom as ‘God’s Chosen People’ for the next thousand years (the Millenium).

The war in Iraq and the ‘war on terror’ are just fronts.  It’s not about terror, it’s not about liberation and democracy, it’s not even about oil.  It’s about religion—period!

There were some sheeple defending these nutcases (and I am guessing some of them were the selfsame nutcases) in previous articles stating they were being mischaracterized and such.  Where are they now?  Blood must be spilled?  Defend away dolts.

addendum:  Of course I meant to call out Ron Luce’s misuse of Christianity, as well as a fearful, heaven help us, cry that anyone would offer a prayer of thanks that President Bush is our military leader.  I doubt that all the thousands and thousands of maimed and killed young Americans, nor the the multiple thousands of maimed and killed Iraqis, as well as Afghans in situ are thankful that Mr. Bush is leading.  Recall, an old sage once said, “where there is no vision the people perish.”

It is tragic when a writer’s words are displaced from their historical context and used to promote malice, and false ideology.
The apostle Paul, the writer of the text that analogizes a christian’s armor(Ephesians 6:10-15)to that of a warrior, has been perverted by Mr. Graham, et al, in order to comport to a personal dogma, not to be confused with Christian tenets.  Paul’s speech to the Ephesians was an argument in which Paul promoted a successful strategy to overcome powers that were not flesh and blood, but, existed as evil - a concept.  Paul ended his oratory quoted in the passage with a military analogy which included: clothing composed of truth, and peace and prayer.  Use of military terminology was presented to express the power and enablement of doing good, promoting peace, and maintaining truth.  Most likely used for rhetorical punch.  The passage is not a battle cry against human beings. 
Graham’s quote from Psalms 137 is equally misplaced. What does a Psalm have to do with Christian dogma?  Nothing.  It is Old Testament -old law, and inapplicable to any Christian tenet.
It is time that all true Christians stand up, speak out, and reprimand Graham and his ilk for being the true anti-christ.  Christ was emphatic and very clear in his teachings. He posited that we, the people should demonstrate acts of mercy. We should share with the poor and care for the afflicted.  In fact, his position against causing injury was crystallized when he instructed the Apostle Peter to put away his sword, that those who lived by the sword would die by the sword. I add here that I was saddened that Graham and his crusade would attempt to exploit our elite military forces to persuade the audience. We need our elite military, and they serve America well in matters of just cause.
Yes, Christ was all about peace, love, and brotherhood.  Not a hippie slogan, but a true way to live. Whether one’s belief system is extant or interminable. 
It is outrageous that our youths are being incited to commit acts of violence and prejudice against others based on cultural and religious differences concerning belief practices.
When I consider America’s youth being encouraged to such acts, I cannot help but think of the brown shoe Nazi youth incited to hate Jews. It also calls to mind KuKluxKlan members who incite members and others to execute horrific, racist, biased acts.  Recall both these groups, KKK and Nazis did acts of violence in the name of Christianity.  Women were burned at the stake in the name Christianity.  Catholic Spaniards exercised the first biological weapons (small pox blankets given to native americans) in the name of Christianity and country.
Every true Christian must take a stand and speak out against such inciters who encourage the hatred of others based on religion or their history(Graham’s discussion of Iraq/Babylon).  These men who encourage such hate against Muslims or Hindus or others, are false Christians. Reprobate.
It is not enough for individual Christians to speak against such wrongs, such hatred, and injustice. It is imperative that all organized Christian groups, such as the Quakers, Church of Christ, Episcopal Council, Catholic Archdioceses and the Pope, Presbyterian Union, Methodist Council, Baptists, and all other peaceable practicing Christian groups to PUBLICLY, UNEQUIVCABLY DENOUNCE THESE FALSE CHRISTIAN CONSERVATIVE GROUPS WHO FAIL TO PRACTICE THE TRUE FAITH OF PEACE AND BENEVOLENCE AND LOVE FOR ALL MANKIND, but instead teach hate for other faiths, and incite wars and cruelty.  Those who feign Christianity, yet support prejudice and violence against “unbelievers” are little more than false prophets.

I don’t know which Mosaic books you refer to, but: slaves were released after a set period of time, women could remarry, be head of the household. Yes, there was a harshness to the code of conduct. but it did hold the society together as it developed. Also, the Laws were re-interpreted over time. Like the way laws here in the USA get re-interpreted.

Also, within the Mosaic Law are the injunctions to not humiliate the poor or to let them go hungry. Social Justice was embedded in the Law. It’s just never referred to. or practiced. Jesus preached Mosaic Law.

Where is Sam Harris in all this? Isn’t this exactly what his book predicts? That our willingness to make a space for any kind of religious expression, no matter how horrible and antithetical to our existance as a country is the greatest danger to our speices?

I read these types of articles and fear for our Republic.

People are such sheep. I have so little hope for the long term survival of mankind.

Boot camp for future Tim McVeighs.

A truly chilling article, and being from Philadelphia, it truly saddens me that my fellow neighbors, so close to home, can be so easily filled with hatred and malice. What truly makes us so different from one another apart from trivial details? We’re all composed of the same stuff, share many of the same experiences, is it really so much a stretch to learn something new from someone whose culture and background is alien to us?  I admire your courage for appearing on the O’Reilly Factor, despite there was no way the debate would have been treated objectively. . .“No Spin Zone” my ass.  The discrepencies between Luce’s media appearances and his rallies only shows his hypocricy, and I imagine Christ himself attending one of Luce’s rallies wide-eyed with horror before falling to his knees, weeping with the sorrow of all the lives lost. . .in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.  What a great disservice, humiliation, and grave insult…to be so misunderstood. . .

“Let he who is without sin cast the first stone”

Alas, people go from one myth to the next.

The USA has lost consciousness in oh so many ways. These indeed are times of study - i propose a good sober look at the period from about 1900 to 1950 for starters. Familiar contours are taking shape, this time in the ‘new’ world.