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BattleCry: Ron Luce’s Holy War

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Posted on May 23, 2006
Ron Luce
From rogouski.com

BattleCry founder Ron Luce speaks with a man he identified as a U.S. Navy SEAL at the Philadelphia BattleCry rally on May 12.

By Sunsara Taylor

Editor’s note: This is the third in a series of columns about the Christian fundamentalist movement BattleCry, which has produced several massive Christian rock shows across the country this year. For more info on BattleCry and its activities, check out: column 1, column 2)

In this column, Truthdig contributor Sunsara Taylor reports on the second and final day of BattleCry’s rally in Philadelphia, where a “sexpert” claims that “condoms don’t work,” Navy SEALs stage mock assassination raids in the name of Christ, and evangelist Franklin Graham suggests that HIV/AIDS is a punishment from God.


?Do you care more about the pigs around you or God?? BattleCry leader Ron Luce roared at the crowd of more than 17,000 youths gathered at Wachovia Spectrum Stadium in Philadelphia on Friday, May 12. No, this wasn?t a metaphor: After reading a passage from Luke 15 that mentions pigs, he actually brought several squealing, pink farm animals on stage. Got it? You either get with Luce?s hateful, hyper-patriotic, woman-bashing, racist god or ? you?re a pig.

What?s more, it became clear during the rally that all the rhetoric about battles, warriors and war was not just metaphorical, either.

White Man?s Burden

Early on the second day of the Christian evangelical rock concert?s two-day run, a tribal drumbeat filled the stadium and a voice boomed out from the speakers: ?The most violent people in human history.?

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Which race of people, you?re probably wondering, might fit that bill? The Nazis during World War II?  The U.S. slave traders?  How about the George Bush White House?”

In answer to that question, grainy images of indigenous Ecuadoreans running around and throwing spears appeared on the stadium screens. Proof of their ?barbarism?? Forget for a moment that their land and way of life were destroyed by oil prospectors; these ?savages? had killed five missionaries who came to destroy their belief systems decades ago. One of the supposed killers was brought on stage. He had been ?civilized? by the Bible and called on the assembled youths to sign up for missionary trips to convert others in Ecuador.

News flash to Luce?s audience: These indigenous people, whose very existence is hanging by a thread?threatened by the encroachment of a ?modern world? of exploitation, racism, environmental destruction and cultural genocide?are at least a hundred million people short of being ?the most violent people in human history,? even if they did what Luce accused them of.

The reality is that over a hundred million indigenous people were killed by the Europeans who followed Columbus to the ?new world.? And let?s not forget that the genocide against natives was blessed by people carrying Ron Luce?s Bible.

Finally, after being programmed with these racist lies, Luce?s flock flooded down to the floor of the stadium to sign up for missions this summer?to Africa, Latin America, the urban U.S., Australia, the Mideast and beyond. As they went, Luce offered odd encouragement: ?You guys are freaks of a whole different breed?.You guys are a bunch of wild animals. Man!?

Ignorance and Patriarchy

Next up on the agenda: woman bashing. If you?re no fan of misogynist lyrics in heavy metal or hip-hop but you still want to see women degraded, insulted and dehumanized, Luce has just the thing for you.

Lakita Wright, self-proclaimed ?sexpert? who has spoken to members of Congress and more than half a million young people in the past year, stepped up to preach the ?naked truth? (get it?) about abstinence and purity. Her specialty seemed to be the shameless promotion of racist and sexist stereotypes that only a black woman trying to outdo Bill Cosby might be able to get away with.

Wright began with a parable that portrays ?Lies? as female and ?Truth? as male; she then launched an attack on all the established truths about safe sex and resurrected all the old stigmas against people—especially women—who engage in sex outside patriarchal marriages.

Wright reserved special derision for the ?stupid? young women whose lives are disrupted because they have babies. ?Don?t blame him [the baby]. It?s your fault. You should have zipped it up. Locked it down. Clank. Clank.? She drew chuckles from many men when she ?slipped? and called women ?flea-males,? saying, ?Did I say that? Well, if you lie down with dogs?.?

Wright led a call-and-response about sexually transmitted diseases and listed, with great drama, the pain and disfigurement they can cause. Then, while claiming to care about these diseases, she went on to assail one thing that is proved to prevent them: ?Condoms don?t work.?

Wright bemoaned the fact that judges in the U.S. today aren?t required to study the Mosaic books of the Bible. (These are the parts of the Bible that celebrate taking your enemies as slaves, killing their babies and forcing women to be concubines, traded and controlled as possessions and subject to the most horrific of abuses.)

Reality check: Condoms save lives. Preaching ?abstinence? as a way to prevent STDs kills people. Luce and his clan don?t give a fuck about young people?s lives?this war on condoms is driven by literalist messages from a book that demands death by stoning for those who engage in sex outside of wedlock.

Holy War?for Real

After what amounted to a celebration of genocide against Native Americans and a pep rally for death by STDs, things got really gory: Evangelist Franklin Graham took the stage.

Graham began by tossing out the despicable canard that HIV/AIDS is a punishment from God. ?We get outside of marriage and there are consequences,? he told the crowd.

He went on to assert that God sees marriage as a ?relation between a man and a woman. Not a man and a man or a woman and a woman.? This drew him his loudest applause of the day, never mind that the Bible celebrates many instances of marriage between one man and many women. Maybe the next time I go to one of Luce?s gatherings I?ll take a bunch of bumper stickers that read: ?Man + 1,000 Women = Marriage.? People can put them on their cars to promote a model of marriage in the Bible?a model in which King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines (and for some reason God never gave him AIDS as a punishment).

The heart of Graham?s speech was a call for holy war. He preached about the ?battle for souls of men and women from north to south, east to west, over the entire Earth.? There is, he declared, ?No way to God but through Jesus Christ.?

Now, I believe that economic and political forces—not religion—are the root causes of most wars. But how long must we put up with a world where religion plays a role in whipping up people to kill others, as in the case of Christian fascist general Jerry Boykin, who said in speaking about his Muslim opponent in Somalia: ?I knew that my God was bigger than his.? (Boykin?s troops lost that battle, by the way.)

Graham next told the biblical story of Daniel ?taming the Babylonians.? After celebrating the U.S. troops who are killing people by the thousands in Iraq right now, he preached that there is ?no difference between the Iraqis today and Babylon 1,000 years ago.? In the Bible, Babylon is the epitome of evil and decadence. All manner of bloodlust and plunder against it is not just condoned but celebrated. As Psalm 137:9 spells out, even the babies are to be dashed against the rocks.

While calling on the youths present to engage in this ?battle for the souls of men,? he declared: ?No souls can be saved without the shedding of blood. Blood must be shed!?

Shortly thereafter the large screen above the stadium lit up with images of Navy SEALs making their way from backstage. Dressed in camouflage, carrying automatic weapons, kicking down doors and firing blanks into empty rooms along their way, they seemed like the embodiments of the house-to-house raids and indiscriminate killings that have been seen in rare footage that made its way out of Iraq.

Fireworks exploded and flames billowed as Ron Luce greeted the warriors, bragging that all of them had been involved in real battles. They are part of FORCE Ministries, a Christian organization composed of current and retired Navy SEALs, law enforcement members and other military personnel who evangelize at events like these and conduct Bible study sessions at military bases around the world. Among those on stage was a SEAL just back from Afghanistan and a member of a police SWAT team. All of them are trained to kill, and they apparently do so or have done so in the belief that God sanctions their actions.

One of the SEALs recounted how, at boot camp, he had been forced to surrender his entire will to the demands of his instructor. Luce stepped in to tell the audience: ?That is your youth pastor. He?s going to make you a SEAL for Christ.? Of course, the great Commander of this religious army is God, who issues his foot soldiers armor??a shield of faith, a belt of truth, and boots of preparedness,? according to Luce?as well as ?offensive weapons? like the ?sword of the spirit? and the ?word of God.?

This merging of God?s army and the U.S. military echoed the event that opened the day: the reading of a letter of greeting and blessing from George W. Bush. After the reading, a minister led thousands to bow their heads and thank the Lord for giving them George Bush, the commander in chief of America’s military.

The Two Faces of Christian Fascism

BattleCry keeps this bloodthirsty holy war madness in the closet. You won?t find it on the group?s website and you won?t hear it in the major media appearances. For all his onstage bluster and his stacks of books laced with militarism, when Ron Luce debated me on television?s ?The O?Reilly Factor,? he sounded more like a wilting flower: ?Well, there are young people all over America and they are realizing that they are caught in the middle of this culture war?. They are saying, ?You know what? We want our voices to be heard. We love the Lord and we?re not mean.?  ?

I wonder how many of the youths gravitating toward these Christian fascists have any idea that their agenda is as gruesome, bloodthirsty and horrible as the hell myth that they are being scared into submission with?

But whether or not you realize what you are signing on to, when you make your pact with Luce and his bunch, you?re not only signing on to a brain-deadening fantasy that robs you of your ability to understand and change the world, you may end up being led to fight?and shed blood?in a ?holy war? for Bush and all that he represents.


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By mel, August 14, 2010 at 4:43 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Sunsara will not stop until we live in completely
immoral society where sex before mariage, adultry,
abortion as a convenience, etc are norms in this
country.

When that happens families will be in disarray, many
will be suffering from STDS, illegitimate children will
be at an all time high, and the list will go on.

But to Sunsara that is the price you pay for freedom

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By brian, April 9, 2010 at 10:36 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

http://www.comereason.org/cmp_rlgn/cmp070.asp

read this if you think Christianity came from Mithra.

So tired of people scrambling for anything and everything they can use to try and make christianity look bad. From false associations to downright lies and misunderstanding of what the religion (not some far left or far right wing nutbag) actually teaches.

I am not against honest discussion and debate, but Im not going to try and tell a Muslim or hindu what his faith “really” teaches. THEY are the experts…if I want to know, I need to listen to them. Not just spout my own agenda because I have been hurt or offended by someone who claimed to eb a hundu or muslim. Its not just about the texts…its also about how they read them with exegesis.

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By Beast, August 10, 2008 at 2:46 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

It’s when you don’t have sex and desire to abstain from sex before you’re married. Keeping your pants up and using your brain to think through the consequences that may happen if you engage in such activities. AIDS, Herpes, Gonnorrhea are not just fun words but diseases that millions of people all over the world get because they decide to get off and think they’re protected with a condom which even if they couldn’t get pregnant or acquire the fire of herpes or Gonnorrhea they still would be empty only having temporary pleasure that doesn’t last. Sex without a true relationship is crap. I see tons of people every day with funky discharge from their crotch or smells that are even worse because sex is cool and let’s go out and bang every person you see. Just because you can’t control urges doesn’t mean sex outside of marriage is right and justified. The only way to truly have no chance of getting an STD or becoming pregnant is by not engaging in having sex, getting head, or doing anything else with your little midget that you can’t control. Have you ever talked with a girl that’s been banged one guy after another has 30 kids and nothing else but crappy relationships for the last 20 years, she has a worn out nasty looking tool that no one would ever want to touch, not to mention the multiple diseases that she would have or the man that thinks sex is the only thing that matters, pretty soon he’s looking for other things to satisfy but never finds them. 10 different STD’s and 30 kids to boot, never once thinking about who’s going to raise those kids and be a real dad to them or whether or not he really gives a crap or not. But it’s not our responsibility, we couldn’t help it. Our dicks just had to go bang something, try monogamy and get married, it will last longer and be more fulfilling. Go ahead contract AIDS, let your dick fall off because you don’t know crap about STD’s and think a little pill will cure your ills, your body will pay for the things you put it through, just ask the heroine junky or the crack head, or maybe the methman, they all pay in one way or another. Sex isn’t any less addicting than any other drug you just pay different in the end for banging so many people. Increases the chance of Cancer in women, and decrease fertility and makes your dick hurt and ooze green crap. Abstinence what the crap? Let’s just go get a gun and play Russian Roullette. You can argue this issue when you work around all the people that come in to get treated for these diseases and infect thousands of others because they don’t care and just want to bang someone.

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By Chris, July 20, 2008 at 1:19 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I have been kind of surprised by these three articles. Having been to a couple of the Acquire the Fire events and to the Honor Academy for a year, I have not found a gospel of hate, but a call the greater commitment to the gospel found in the new testament. Which, by the way, has no provisions for stoning anyone. In fact the discipline of the church was in the worst case to not allow people who claimed to be Christians and yet refused to act like them, to meet with them. It was not even excommunication as the catholic church knows it, because whether a person is a Christian is ultimately only known by them and God. It is also this gospel that instructs Christians to pray for the salvation of our enemies, not something that is easy to do. The call to commitment is a call to allow God to work in my life to forge my character. To build a mature character that has integrity. A character being the collection of habits that guide my daily life. And the practice for the big things is in the little things, which is why Ron calls for honesty and integrity in all things from the smallest to the biggest. It is this honesty and integrity, the willingness to do the right thing that defines honor. As an aside, did you know that the “Golden Rule”: “Do to others what you would want them to do to you” is one of the things that Jesus said? Now, when Ron Luce talks about the need to stop being pew sitters and to abandon the “peace, love, joy” gospel it is to submit to God as he directs my life and to allow him to work through the difficult times of my life to forge the character and maturity that he wants to. It is a call, like the one that Jesus gave that said that life as a Christian is not going to be a cake walk, it will be difficult. But, through it all he will be walking beside me and will show his love for me and be my strength so that I can have peace and show joy and love to others even in the middle of very difficult situations. By the way the Honor Academy has some great opportunities to put yourself in challenging situations to allow God to really work in your life.

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By Chris, July 20, 2008 at 1:18 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

As for some comments about the agreement that Honor Academy Interns make to not watch R rated movies or listen to secular music, it is to allow us to focus more on what we are learning about the bible and following God. As for the dress code at Teen Mania, I would also like to note that guys were also required to keep their shirts on, so as not to provide temptation to the women on campus. The agreement to not pursue romantic relationships is also to reduce the distractions and to build an environment where we can learn to interact with members of the opposite sex as people, with respect, as friends and with out having to worry about whether or not she likes me in a romantic way. This is consistent with the call for the Christian to treat those of the opposite sex as siblings, with complete respect. Another thing that I have read is that the introduction of the bourka has not stopped men from lusting or women from flirting, it is just focused on different areas of the body. (Outside the Wire by Kevin Patterson and Jane Warren - sorry no page number) It stands to reason that a blind man can still lust, the source of stimulation is the only difference. As a Christian I believe that the call to have sex only in marriage is to protect a beautiful thing, and that it is those who are married as virgins who experience the fullness of what it was designed to be, and that goes for BOTH the husband and the wife. The bible’s rules (God’s rules) are to protect us from harm and to guide us to life’s fullest most joyful measure avoiding the cheap imitations as much fun as they seem. As far as activism, I understand and it is taught at Teen Mania that I am responsible for my actions, I am not responsible for your actions. This means that my influence is not to bludgeon you with, but that I must do what is right.  If I do not like the image or message that some corporate entity is portraying, I will not buy their product, even if it is good in and of itself. I will not support their message. I can speak to politicians, and as a citizen of a democracy it is my place to let them know what I think about issues. With regards to the militant theme of the Battle Cry events, the Christian is not fighting against people, it is a spiritual battle. It is stated clearly that the weapons of Christianity are not those of this world: swords, shields, and now guns. Instead, the weapons are prayer, the bible, and our own life stories as we recount how God has been at work in our lives to provide for us, to forge our characters through the tough times of life, and how he has walked beside us the whole way even though we often fail, spitting in his face by doing what is wrong. This is a journey, one that will last the rest of my life, one where I will see God continue to work in my life to build maturity and character so that I reflect more of who Christ really is.

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By Bob, May 19, 2008 at 9:06 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Although this article did point out that some things Teen Mania is doing may be overly-radical, most of the comments about Christianity are very ignorant. I would have liked to see some of the sources which led to these conslusions.

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By Kathryn, February 16, 2008 at 9:53 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Their is a reason for all the violence, hate and murder, we see in society today. This reason being that children are not afforded protections and respect for their innocense. There was a time when
children were protected by their father and mother, a time when two people came together as one, produced children, from their bodies blending as one. This is the reason for birth and life, when two fall in love and create together life. These are the parents that can truley love, each other and their children. Out of this truly diverse relationship, then come together and form a relationship that they can build a life with. For they can flourish in all the natrual and normal aspects of life itself. These two alone, can create life, they have the ability to join together. Joined in a relationship that offers, hope, love and life.

As the sun of the earth must rise, to give sustaining warmth, light and life
The son of man must rise for he has a purpose too
To rise up and bring forth life
With all that God has given him
To honor and protect
To defend the blood of his offspring
To give and receive this love
It takes a heterosexaul
The blue print of the Creator
You are heterosexaul

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By Mijan, February 16, 2008 at 6:53 pm Link to this comment

Maybe because there are plenty of us who DO live respectable lives but don’t like having the Bible shoved down our throat because we don’t share the same religion. 

Who said that liberals are godless?  That’s an assumption that YOU just made. 

Who said that your view of God is correct?  A book that was *assembled* about 2000 years ago from a series of ancient desert scrolls and myths in conjunction with the teachings of a countryside prophet?  Please. 

Who said that we’re acting like barnyard animals?  My house is clean, I take no drugs, I’m monogamous, I barely drink, I’m educated, I work and pay taxes, I treat people kindly, I give to the poor, I do volunteer work, I seldom cuss, I served in the Army for seven years, and I’m a social liberal.

My soul is peaceful.  It’s my nation, and world, that aren’t peaceful.  People are fighting wars over religion, and Christianity is one of those religions.  I don’t have a problem with Jesus… I just wish Christians would actually follow that message of PEACE.

I don’t need the help of those who can barely help themselves.  Why is it so hard for people to accept that my relationship with God, despite not being identical to theirs, is JUST FINE?  I don’t need to be “saved”... my soul is just fine, thank you.  I don’t need to be “born again” in this lifetime… I got it right the first time.  Of course, we’ll all be born again… reincarnation.  But you wouldn’t like me to “preach” at you about that. 

Just understand that I won’t shove my beliefs down your throat… if your type stops shoving their beliefs down mine.

Peace be with you.

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By Mijan, February 16, 2008 at 6:40 pm Link to this comment

The condition of Massachusetts is excellent.  It has the lowest divorce rate in the country.  It has one of the highest literacy rates.  It has some of the finest educational institutions in the world.  It has the best hospitals.  It has low poverty.  And it has a delightfully high percentage of people who believe in the American principle of the separation of church and state… and who also believe that hate and judgment are not positive values.

I love MA.  I’m proud that I was born there.  I’m proud that I was part of the great strides of progress that were made there.  And if you don’t like MA… perhaps you should consider Mississippi or Alabama.  They’re really religious and closed-minded there.  Just your type.  They also have lots of poverty, higher divorce rates, and lower literacy.  Have fun.

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By Jyohan, January 23, 2008 at 11:29 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

It’s not the KKK, that’s an analogy. I’ve done some research into this. On the whole, the event is very nice. The fundamental aspect and conversionary parts are the scary bits. The masses go in and emerge unchanged, except maybe more Christian and more love/peace/etc. The few who become fanatics afterwards worry me.

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By Katrhyn, January 23, 2008 at 7:19 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

To understand the condition of the State of Massachusetts, please visit http://www.massresistance.org. Also google Boston’s Children’s Hospital Sex Change Clinic. We are in need of many, many prayers and support. God Bless!!!

God’s Children

God’s Children have lost their way
Jesus has very much too say]
Will they listen
Those restless souls
Or will they go their own way
Loneliness, trouble and despair
They will meet at their will
But Jesus’ Will shall never fail
To come and heal them
And Bring them home

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By Netbug, January 15, 2008 at 5:55 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

You’re comparing Battlecry to the KKK now? You really have no idea about the other side of the story then.

Battlecry isn’t about actually killing people or even going to a real war. It’s about the spiritual war that we’re all involved in as Christians against sin and hate. The war thing is used as an ANALOGY. I have been to AtF myself, and there is absolutely no support of shedding blood. It doesn’t approve of taking down people. It actually is a loving movement, and it’s fight is against the bad values being put into the media, not the people who follow them.

I would recommend listening to more than one anti Christian bias article before you make such a big assumption as Battlecry is like KKK.

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By Jyohan, January 14, 2008 at 9:38 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Luce speak of the weakness of the “pew-sitters” and how “the Christians who just want love, joy, peace” were a problem? See article 2.

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By Jyohan, January 14, 2008 at 9:32 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I’m sure she hates democracy. Which is why she protests and writes persuasive articles. I mean, everyone knows that’s what people who hate democracy do.
To Netbug: I’d like to see the other side of the story as well, but I fear it would be rather idiotic, much as allowing the KKK a side in a story would be. While some of the quotes are unoffensive, most are. Not only does this group actively support violence and bloodshed as a preferable method to achieve their goals (“No souls can be saved without the shedding of blood. Blood must be shed!” ), they lie. Condoms don’t work? Seriously? Didn’t we leave this stuff behind with the evolution debate? This whole “Aquire the Fire” movement does not at all seem rational, reasonable, or beneficial (to anyone who does not believe them).

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By Netbug, January 11, 2008 at 8:59 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Wow, we’re all the same? Huh. I’m pretty sure I have conservative values but am not a communist.

Learn the whole story before you assume anything. This article is totally anti Christian and bias. If this site was really about truth, it would have the guts to give both sides of the story.

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By danny raspito, January 11, 2008 at 1:36 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

SUNSARA TAYLOR IS A COMMUNIST!!! SHE SAYS SO HERSELF. WE ALL KNOW VERY WELL THAT REDS ARE ALL THE SAME. SHE PROBABLY PICTURES HERSELF AS SOME KIND OF FREEDOM FIGHTER LIKE BACK IN SPAIN IN THE 1930s. WEARING A CHE HAT AND A GREEN UNIFORM LIKE CASTRO. SHE WOULD LIKE TO COMBAT THE EVIL AMERICANS WITH HER KARL MARX BOOK AT HER SIDE. REALLY IT’S ALL SILLY JUST THE SAME. SHE’S BITTER BECAUSE DEMOCRACY WON OVER COMMUNISM. LADY LET IT GO!!!!!

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By Jessica, November 5, 2007 at 4:51 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Ron can you email me i really need to talk to you plasea and thanks!

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By Billy and Bev in Georgia, USA, October 15, 2007 at 9:03 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

girl4christ, you go girl!  We know what you mean.

We’re into Mithra here - you know, the Savior that was born to a virgin on December 25th and came to save us from our sins.  He came before Jesus by a few centuries, but He is awesome!

We are fighting for Mithra, and we love y’all for your fighting for Jesus.  They are two awesome guys!

Maybe we can get Mithra to fight Jesus and make some money from it!  I know our guy will win because He came before Jesus, but we’ll take whatever happens.

In any case, if y’all can’t figure out how to act or what to think without these guys, let’s get together and see if we can make judgements about things using reason and facts.

‘Devoted to God Mithra’
Billy and Bev

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By girl4christ, October 15, 2007 at 3:29 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

i think you are very sceptical in saying that these so called teenagers need to thnk for themselves. They have found what ,akes them happy, jesus and are willing to fight for him. I do not think that is a problem if terrorists also decide to fight for their own god. You need to stop making judgements. God will surely judge Ron luce according to his works, we just need to be thankful that something is willing to step out in faith. After all, faith without works is dead.

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By Hannah Smith, October 6, 2007 at 8:21 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

This article displays a lack of understanding about what the event was about.  The Battle Cry revolution is about teens meeting truth—understanding consequences of our actions, making the choice to live not selfishly, but to serve and care for other hurting teenagers.  The Christianity of the Bible is a religion of love for anyone who realizes they need it—especially the outcasts.  The lesson with the pigs was that we need to renounce our sins, our attitudes and actions that are destructive to ourselves and to others. 
This is not a hate movement but a movement of love—people caring enough about teens to be honest when it’s not popular.

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By brooklynn, September 6, 2007 at 4:28 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

hello. i am so very sorry for those who are christians who read this article and were angered by the angle that we were perceived; however, i offer my sincerest apology to those who are not christians and were talked down to by christians.

everyone has a right to believe what they will, yet those who present a message that bashes those who are not christians are being judgmental. God is to be the judge of that not the christian who knows no better than to pass judgement upon someone based on their opinion which was founded upon pour examples of a relationship with God.

christians, if u who are blameless of sin step forwatd and cast the first stone; if there is no one then hush ur judgement and learn patience, compassion, and love. Christ was these things and u should strive for this.

no one wants to pursue a relationship with christ when the only examples they encounter are ruthless, snooty and self gratifying hypocrits.

god loves EVERYONE. not just the christian. we are not all so self centered. some of us just like to inform people and let them feel the Jesus thing out for themselves. make the choice not be pushed into it.

if there is anyone who would like information about Christ and the Bible and what a Christian really is, please contact me. i promise i will help u as best my ability.

i love you all as christ also loves you.

my email- .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

god bless u all.

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By joe, August 28, 2007 at 8:57 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

There a lot of hate in the article and in the replys.  they really don’t like this guy.  They didn’t like Jesus either because he exposed people for what they are.  Have you ever told a lie, then your a liar.  Have you ever lusted after someone, then according to Jesus you’re an adulterer.  Have you ever stolen anything regardless of size or value, then your a thief and you have to stand before a perfect and holy God on judgement day.  Now that’s offensive but it’s true.  Please search your heart to see if any of these questions fit you and if you answered yes to them please realize your in big trouble unless you turn from your wicked ways and put your trust in what Jesus has done for you.

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By Timothy, August 26, 2007 at 10:07 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Trying to impose a theocracy upon a secular republic doesn’t seem like helping me

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By scotty, August 25, 2007 at 2:55 pm Link to this comment
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why don’t you are liberal/left/and godless , clean up your lives and quit acting like barnyard animals? that way you could shut up gods warriors like ron luce…sound like a peaceful solution?.....
you might even get more peace in your soul,and stop hating those who are trying to help you.

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By Netbug, August 24, 2007 at 10:55 pm Link to this comment
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I find it ironic I’m being told to do research when people here are not doing that. They’d rather just listen to this article that twists Ron Luce’s program into being something that it’s not. Why don’t you do some research and talk to people who didn’t just go to bash the whole thing and arn’t bias against anything conservative in nature?

Truthdig my eye. This article makes the democratic party look bad. Of course, that could be how the party usualy acts. I wouldn’t know. I’m not into politics much. I hope I’m wrong though.

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By Paul, August 24, 2007 at 10:46 pm Link to this comment

I am young and disillusioned. I need other folks to tell me what is right and wrong, what is good and bad.  I am a follower of anyone who can make me feel good about myself.  I am selfish and incompetent.

I do not mind if folks like Ron Luce offer me a worldview that has no basis in reality.  I am only interested in fooling myself about the realities of my own life.  I just want to belong.  I do not care if I am mislead on important matters of life.  I only care about my own satisfaction.

My self-esteem is so poor that I am an easy mark for mind-control schemes, and I don’t care.  I only want to feel secure in my associations, and I need others to manage this for me.

Thank God for folks like Ron Luce who can provide this contrived structure for weak and tortured minds like my own.

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By Everyone should CHECK OUT infowars.com, August 23, 2007 at 9:52 pm Link to this comment
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Everyone should know there is an illuminati our goverment is killing us from every angle and prospect of our life, they ar slowly restricting our rights and freedoms with incidents of terror ,turning entire countrys into terrorist groups aswell as trying to use the bible and religion against the people as means of controlling the people.YOU MUST!! go to infowars.com , prisonplanet.com, GOOGLE ALEX JONES watch his documentaries. humanity depends on it. there is a NEW WORLD ORDER they are slowy destroying humantiy BUSH IS JUST THERE PUPPET THIS IS NO CONSPIRACY THEORY DO THE RESEARCH FOR YOURSELF YOU WILL BE OVERWHELMED…......... WAKE UP…...

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By Kyle, August 15, 2007 at 4:57 pm Link to this comment
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Whether or not this guy is a full-blown Navy SEAL doesn’t change the fact that using such militaristic imagery is completely contradictory to the supposed “turn of the other cheek” nature of Christianity.

My young cousin is involved in Battlecry. It truly makes me sick. I attended a rally with her in Chicago. An earshot away from being the Nuremberg rally, only with more pyrotechnics and awful alternative rock bands.

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By Netbug, August 14, 2007 at 11:31 pm Link to this comment
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If you ask me, it’s this article that’s trying to fool people who don’t do a background check.

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By JH, August 14, 2007 at 9:25 pm Link to this comment
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I would love to get the names of the “so-called” SEALs who were in on this evolution.  Absolutely impossible.  I was an instructor for over 2.5 years and nobody makes any student “surrender their will”....come on.  What a load.
To everyone: Be real careful about the “SEALs” you read and hear about.  I’ve encountered more wannabes and fakes then actual.  Do your homework to avoid embarrasment.  The fakes play on the fact that you won’t do a background check on them when it is incredibly easy with one phone call to the NSW Center in Coronado Ca.

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By Netbug, August 8, 2007 at 11:15 pm Link to this comment
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I’m just annoyed this site is called Truthdig and yet this article twists the truth so much.

The REAL reason this reviewer is angry I’m guessing is because Bush is behind it, so he assumes that we’re all Bush’s minions.

I am totally supportive of Battlecry, but guess what? I’m an independent. When I get older, I’m gonna be an independent voter. I choose to follow no one person but God.

This article is filled with lies. I suggest everybody who reads it to get the other side of the story before you beleive a word of it.

And to the reviewer, thanks for making my chances of voting democrat less likely by showing that the information you guys give out is twisted and filled with lies. I’ll remember to keep that in mind any time somebody asks me to vote for a democratic value, even if it does make sence to me, because fr all I know they’re twisting it up like you are here.

It’s funny how people claim Christianity makes no sense, and yet they can’t make it seem that way without twisting the truth. Huh.

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By Truth, July 26, 2007 at 12:13 pm Link to this comment
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What did you go to the event to do because it seems asthough you went to listen to all the points that would make Christians look bad, i’ve watched Ron Luce’s events and when i read your post i couldn’t even say that sounds like him at all. It’s ashame that you say his a woman basher and what else have you because thats not the case at all, he’s letting the youth in this day and age know what the enemy is doing in this world, it’s a spiritual battle not physical! Men in the biblical time where married to many women, yes, they were but you need to keep reading through the new testiment to read what Paul wrote about marriage before you decided to use what you did as an example because one man to one woman is enough. It’s amazing how people who don’t believe are always quick to pick and choose parts out of the bible to writeup something bad about our belief, but it seems you missed out all the times that Jesus spoke about those who would not understand the truth when they heard it, check the new testiment and see if you don’t find Him saying that many times in many ways also like the man who was born blind, that is an example of us everyone of us, when we’re born we are born blind to the truth but we are able to know the truth so that we can see through Jesus Christ which is where the song Amazing Grace talks about ” I once was lost, but now i’m found, was blind but now i see!” Refering to the lost as the lost sheep (the people) who need to be found (saved)why sheep as an example? Because in the biblical times there was alot of shepards tending sheep thats why, so it would be easy to understand as they could relate to it not that we are actually sheep as i’ve read many people say before which is just being silly. When you read the bible everything is not easy to understand but there is alot in there that can be understood if you really want to understand, but if you want to read it to mock it then it’s a different thing!

Are we sinners? Do we really have sin?

Answer this question, if nothing is wrong with us and we are so good why do we all around the world find it so hard to obey the laws of our countries? Why don’t we all follow the laws exactly as it says we should, whats the problem?

Something is obviosly wrong with us! The bible is about law, obeying the laws of God which only a perfect man can follow, every belief is based on law. The reason why man gets their backs up about the bible is because they don’t want to follow the law not even the law of their own world, that right there is a huge issue. It’s called being rebellious, which you know the word rebellious is not a good word it’s bad!

So i ask you again, why can’t man follow the laws of this world?

This is why so many people turn to Christ because we know that we are not perfect we have something wrong with us which is sin, the Ten Commandments is to show us how imperfect we are and that we need God and He sent Jesus so we could get back to Him, thats why Jesus is known as the Way, the Truth and the Life. I’m not going to say anymore because i know that those who don’t believe and understand it can be too much to take in, but there is a whole lot to understand about the bible and also even when your saved you still won’t understand the whole bible but oneday when Jesus returns and changes us, gives our new bodies we will understand as we will be made perfect like Him. You can’t deny this world is slowly being destroyed thats why scientist are trying to work out ways to solve the problem so people can live on this planet forever but it’s not meant to be like that because the world will come to an end and no man can stop it.

God bless!!

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By cowgirl4jesus, July 9, 2007 at 9:54 am Link to this comment
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Marlon, I agree, a lot of the Christian sects do what you said. But that is at certain churches and not all. You shouldn’t judge the churches of America on a whole.

Why are you so pissed off? There’s a lot of anger in your posts.

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By Marlon, July 8, 2007 at 4:13 pm Link to this comment
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“ok then smart guy, where did the world come from? How did we get here? What’s our purpose? Ya see, I choose to believe in God cause I feel like its hope. I can only imagine how you feel about having no afterlife.”

Ahhh yes, of course. We cannot explain the “reason” or the “meaning” of existence…...so let’s just invent anthropomorphic gods and worship them, then life will make sense! Isn’t that satisfying?

Ok Darkslaye, so who created the creator? If believers are able to pose the question “Where did we come from” to prove the existence of a creator, then who created him? Most of you guys simply say “Oh….well God is infinite and perfect so he has no creator” Whatever. As for the “afterlife”, it is truly tragic that so many religions place value in what they imagine happens after death because they cannot handle the frailty of life. What sad escapism.

Cowgirl, as I stated before, you are not telling me anything new. You missed the point of my comparison of various Christian sects. Yes, I know that there is considerable difference between the Catholic papacy and of the reformation. Yes, I know the story of Martin Luther. The point I was making is ALL of these sects claim to be the one true path. They all claim to be right, and consider their brethren to be misguided and fallible. It’s just like shopping for a particular product; each brand will tell you it is the right one and that the competition is wrong. Yes, baptism and communions are rituals just like any other, they may be voluntarily chosen by the people who receive them but they are rites just the same. In ancient times, most human sacrifices chose and volunteered to die.

And as for your taking issue with a simple four letter word I uttered, deal with it. It’s just a word and I have free speech, as do you. Your linguistic morals do not apply to me. The only way a word can be offensive is if the person who hears it interprets it that way. I’ll say it again, SHIT! Whoop de doo! You give it the power to offend.

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By cowgirl4jesus, July 7, 2007 at 11:22 pm Link to this comment
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First off…Darkslaye, take a chill pill. lol. No need to get so fired up. We know the truth, so don’t let it get to ya, we’re gonna be facing all sorts of opposition.

To Marlon…about all your religion stuff. I still beg to differ. If you look at all those religions they each have tons upon tons of rituals. Just for example. I studied Islam in school awhile back, but I’ve slept since then and like I said, it’s been a few years so it’s kinda vague. smile But I think there’s something where they have to stop whatever they’re doing and pray at least one time a day. Key word here is “have”. As a muslim, they have no choice in the matter. The same with all of those other religions. Some people say that baptism and communion are rituals, but I have to disagree. A ritual to me is something that is FORCED upon someone. You HAVE to do it. Catholicism is very ritualistic. Reformed Christianity is something completely different. In all the churches I have been to, baptism and communion are free choice. So there IS a difference.

Also, like I pointed out above, the roman catholic church is VERY different from the reformed church. You might be interested in watching the movie, Luther, to find out more about that. I don’t know if that clarified anything for you, but I hope so. There’s a lot of differences…

ALSO…I’d like to point out one of your statements. “Religion in any of it’s various forms is the same shit, only from varying directions.” It’s easy to talk big on the internet, but it’s a huge pet peeve with me and very immature. That’s not saying I’m perfect or trying to insinuate that I’m any better than you, because I slip and say words I shouldn’t more times than I’d like to mention, but…it’s still really immature. So please don’t talk like that, at least not to me. I’d appreciate that.

Have a great day to everyone on both sides of this debate! God bless you all (whether you believe in Him or not).
CG4J

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By Darkslaye336, July 7, 2007 at 4:34 pm Link to this comment
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ok then smart guy, where did the world come from? How did we get here? What’s our purpose? Ya see, I choose to believe in God cause I feel like its hope. I can only imagine how you feel about having no afterlife.

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By Marlon, July 7, 2007 at 11:08 am Link to this comment
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Cowgirl, here’s the problem: You’re not telling me anything new. Yes, I know christians are fond of maintaining that the christian faith “is not a religion, but a relationship”, but do you ever stop and think that EVERY religion can lay claim to the same statement? Muslims believe they have a relationship with Allah. Hindus believe they have a relationship with the myriad of gods they worship. It’s just a promotional slogan meant to downplay the competition and win people over.

Essentially, this is how I view religion….

Christianity: We alone have the truth
Islam: Wrong, we do!
Judaism: You guys are both wrong, we are the ones who have it right
Hinduism: Haha, whatever, our religion is older than all of you guys
Zoroastrians: What are you guys going off about? We alone follow the truth

And essentially this is how I view christianity….

Catholic: We are the true church
Baptist: No, you guys are idolaters. We are the true church!
Methodist: Nope, that’s us
Evangelical: Wrong, that would be us
Presbyterian: Are you kidding? We alone follow the true book
Pentecostal: You’re all wrong, our church got it right!
Greek Orthodox: Are you people daft? We alone know the truth that is Jesus

Bottomline: All religions claim to be right and infallible. How can an ultimate truth have so many different versions? And yes, christianity is a religion, deny it all you want. It still follows the basic aspects of what constitutes as a religious faith(ritual, doctrine, dogma, holidays, guideline, clergy). Religion in any of it’s various forms is the same shit, only from varying directions

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By cowgirl4jesus, July 6, 2007 at 9:38 pm Link to this comment
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Hey there, Marlon! smile I was reading through some of your comments to Darkeslaye and I read the one about being raised in a baptist church. Maybe you should try a different church. I attend a baptist church every sunday, but we’re not a very conservative one. A lot of Baptist churches turn people off with the “no dance” rules, etc., etc. About some of your other arguments…since what Darkeslaye said was based off of something I had said in an eariler post about atheists being a religion. I wouldn’t say atheism is a religion due to the fact that’s it not ritualistic. Christianity isn’t a religion either, contrary to popular belief…it’s not based on rituals. Nothing we can do can ever get us into heaven accept believe in Jesus Christ and try to live as He would. If you’ve heard otherwise you’ve been sadly misinformed. Back on the subject of athesim, it’s not a religion, but they are so obsessed with proving Christianity and all the false cults out there wrong that it almost could be considered one.

Oh and if you try to piss me off like you do everyone else…ain’t gonna work. smile
I love you in Christ’s love!
Natty

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By Darkslaye336, July 6, 2007 at 9:21 am Link to this comment
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Also, Christians aren’t perfect. So I’m sorry if I go all bezerk on you.

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By Darkslaye336, July 6, 2007 at 9:20 am Link to this comment
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You mis-understand what it means. Making it your own means you challenge the belief and you look up historic documents and such to see if Jesus really did raise from the dead and did such miracles.


Have you ever been to one of his ATFs or Battlecry? Before ya talk bad about him. Go to one of his events.


I won’t stop posting cause I have hope for you to see my side of life. If I get so pissed off, well thats worth it to have someone see life in the eyes of a Christian.

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By Marlon, July 5, 2007 at 9:31 pm Link to this comment
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“You’re a bit to late on making it your own.”

Wow, so the sum of all human knowledge and religious experience resides within a 14 year old?

You continue to reply to these articles, so get off your high horse.

Yes, I’m not surprised you were swayed easily by Ron Luce and his evangelical rock concert. He’s a slick huckster and a cunning businessman, so if he’s able to win people over like that he must be doing something right.

You say if I’m so angry I should stop posting. Well Darkslaye, if you’re so moral, good, righteous and “saved” why do you continue to post when it’s evident you’re pretty angry as well?

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By Darkslaye336, July 4, 2007 at 9:10 am Link to this comment
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Anger does nothing except add pain. I am really amazed by how many say that I’m brainwashed. I went to one of the Acquire the Fires, that was a awe inspiring experience. He is a amazing speaker and I can see how people can call him a brainwasher. But seriously, if your so pissed, stop replying. Your trying to get rid of your anger by lying to people. Now I lived in a catholic home. But I have made my religion my own now. I have checked the books on whether he did this and that. You’re a bit to late on making it your own.

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By Marlon, July 3, 2007 at 7:46 pm Link to this comment
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I’m here because I was raised in a strict conservative baptist home for much of my life and taught fairy tales and legends as literal fact. It is only recently that I have begun to think for myself.

I’m here because Battlecry has brainwashed the hell out of some of my closest friends and are very active with their propaganda campaigns in my town.

I’m here because I see organized religion in the 21st century as a painful vestige of an unenlightened period of time which stands against everything people expected the 21st century to be.

I’m here because I want to make it known that Battlecry DO NOT speak for ALL teens. They are NOT looking out for the interests of all people and they do NOT have the answers that EVERYBODY seeks, yet arrogantly assume everyone needs to join their club.

I’m here because I care, and I’m angry as fuck.

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By Darkslaye336, July 3, 2007 at 6:30 pm Link to this comment
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Did I just insult you? I don’t believe so. But yet you insult me. Now, I’m age 14, turned that a few months ago. I am here because Christianity is under-attack by Sunsara and if I don’t say something. No one is going to have the guts to. It’s like in the civil war. People from the south are insulting the blacks and people who help them. Now, if ya look at it now. Its not much different, only, people are pissed off at Christians and such. So teen to teen, why are you here? Ya have nothing to fight for, we aren’t attacking you. ANYWAYS! Why are you here?

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By Marlon, July 3, 2007 at 5:23 pm Link to this comment
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I am a teen, just turned 18 in fact. Any pithy comebacks?

So why are you here Darkslaye336? You keep telling people here who have atheistic/agnostic/deistic/humanist viewpoints that they are simply angry and confused. So….why do you continue to reply to this page and other pages about Battlecry if you didn’t have an axe to grind with nonbelievers who challenge the tenets of the Christian faith? Obviously, despite your irritating smiley faces and supposed stance on the moral high ground, what people are saying definitely irks you quite a bit. Can you at least be as honest and “open-minded” as you are asking people to be? Or is that not a very “Godly” measure?

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By Darkslaye336, July 3, 2007 at 12:50 pm Link to this comment
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You say I follow something really hollow, well, I can say the same to you smile. I know about people like you. People who are just pissed of at Christians due to one bad encounter. So you figure that if you take out your anger by insulting the Christian’s way of life. You can feel better but yet you keep on getting pissed off more.


Ya do know that you don’t convert people through anger correct? Notice how I am, I am freaking pissed at people like you right now. But do I go around shouting “Your all idiots! You’ve got no brains! The rapture is going to come and your all going to be slaves for Satan!” No, I wouldn’t do that. Now your speaking hollow words until ya open your mind and speak like a normal non-pissed off guy. You’re heart is a tad hard. I feel sorry for that but ya gotta open your mind and eyes! You’re not going to achieve happiness through arguing to teens on the internet.

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By Marlon, July 3, 2007 at 11:45 am Link to this comment
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In the end if we are “screwed”, if homosexuals are “screwed”, if Siberian nomads who have never even heard the name of Jesus due to geographical isolation are “screwed”, it proves what a monstrous and petty being the Judeo-Christian god of Abraham is. Completely unworthy of praise and worship.

“Also, I don’t get “brownie points” in heaven, thats not the Christian Way, the Christian Way is believing in The Trinity and helping as many as you can.”

The Christian way is a system contingent upon obedience, punishment and reward. Your ultimate goal is this assumed afterlife rather than the here and the now. It’s a pretty hollow pursuit.

“But you guys got guts, believing in nothing except in something you seen and hear”

It doesn’t take guts, it simply takes brains and common sense

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By Darkslaye336, July 3, 2007 at 9:17 am Link to this comment
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But you say you don’t believe in anything, so you claim you do not believe in anything, we Christians believe in something, so I consider you guys a religion smile Also, I don’t get “brownie points” in heaven, thats not the Christian Way, the Christian Way is believing in The Trinity and helping as many as you can. That doesn’t mean you get points for the “ticket”. But you guys got guts, believing in nothing except in something you seen and hear (and yada yada yada) Like I said before, You win, everyone is screwed, if I win, you’re screwed

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By Marlon, July 2, 2007 at 6:37 pm Link to this comment
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Atheism a religion? Wrong smart guy. Atheism is a simple lack of belief in superstition and deities. Atheism has no ideology. Atheism has no set doctrine. No two atheists are the same.

Atheism work for the good of others because of kindness and generosity, not because they will earn brownie points with the creator of the universe so they can get a ticket to some LaLa Land in the clouds after they die.

Atheists generally prefer to believe what they can see, taste, smell, touch, feel and hear. Concrete evidence tends to, you know, help the credibility factor? They often use rationale and logic, as opposed to taking books of ancient mythology and legend as fact.

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By Darkslaye336, July 2, 2007 at 5:41 pm Link to this comment
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Cowgirl is right, Aethiesm is considered a religion. Hehe, I gotta admire a man that has 10x more faith then all of us smile Cause, if your right, we’re all screwed, if we are right, you’re screwed.

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By cowgirl4jesus, July 2, 2007 at 10:11 am Link to this comment
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Hey Paul, I have a question for you. You say how stupid it is to give our hearts and minds to anything. But aren’t you kinda giving YOUR heart and mind to atheism?? That’s personally what it seems like to me. You are so dead set in NOT believing in God that you seem a little obsessed with it. Don’t tell us what isn’t and is stupid b/c I don’t think you’re in the position to, as wise as you might think you are. smile Have a great day!
CG4J

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By Darkslaye336, July 1, 2007 at 9:00 pm Link to this comment
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Yo Paul! Why do you attack us christians? Why do ya attack one Teenmania for what it is trying to do? Why?

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By Paul, June 29, 2007 at 9:57 am Link to this comment

‘Giving your heart and mind’ away to anything is not a good idea, even if it’s only an abstract idea.  Giving your personality to imaginary spirits is downright stupid, in my opinion. 

Why not maintain your own feelings and thoughts for yourself and accept responsiblity for yourself?  That way, you won’t be as susceptible to influence by groups like BattleCry that simply want to take your money by preying on your religious gullbility.

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By prayerwarrior, June 28, 2007 at 10:01 pm Link to this comment
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Teresa@,
You are just another exampe of someone who has bought into Sunsara Taylor’s lies! smile Battle Cry isn’t about PHYSICAL battles at all. If you get your Bible and turn to Ephesians 6:10-18, THAT is the Battle that Ron Luce is talking about!!

People this is NOT a physical battle!! It’s a SPIRITUAL battle. Most of these statements WERE made at the Battle Cry event. They’re not talking about getting up, grabbing guns, and going to war. They’re talking about giving not only your hearts but your MINDS to God.

PLEASE check the facts before you go bashing Battle Cry, people.

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By TERESA@, June 21, 2007 at 10:28 am Link to this comment
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i do NOT agree with ron luce.

I WILL NOT! step up and FIGHT and be a physical warrior..
i am not religious, but i do belive that Jesus Christ is my savior.

We’re called to serve and love others.. not to bash!
whoever ed raby is… keep going!
ALL PRAISE BE TO G-D!

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By cowgirl4jesus, June 11, 2007 at 12:25 am Link to this comment
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Wow. I am BEYOND sickened reading this stuff. Is this all y’all have time to do is sit around hating on people all day? No offense, but…that seems pretty immature to me.

I’ve been reading some of your arguments against Battle Cry/Teen Mania. After reading Sunsara Taylor’s article, a lot of them would seem pretty rational but what about Sunsara Taylor. Since she obviously doesn’t seem to believe in absolute truth, or morals of any kind, is her word to be trusted? My suggestion is go to a Battle Cry event and see for yourself. At least if you have the guts….how many of you have the guts to get off of your computers and actually go see for yourself?? I, for one, have been to 2 Acquire the Fire events and I have heard a lot of the same stuff that Ms. Taylor twisted and took out of context for her article. It was said alright, but…without a belief in absolute truth, let’s just say that Ms. Taylor doesn’t believe in TELLING the truth.

I’m not hating anyone…I’m just telling you to get off of your computers and get out there and do something. If you feel that strongly get out there and do something about it. Go see what Battle Cry is all about.
God bless you guys!
CG4J

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By Darkslaye336, June 9, 2007 at 9:36 am Link to this comment
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OK! I am really pumped to defend. (Hello Paul & Rob)I heard some interesting stuff today.

*Funny how the lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene pass freely through cyberspace…


but the public discussion of Jesus is suppressed in the school and work place.

*Funny how simple it is for people to trash God

 


and then wonder why the world is in the condition it is today….

I think I am catching on to this attacking. World Can’t Wait is supported by Revolutionary Communist Party (or something like that) and it is trying to get rid of Battlecry. So they can have a straight shot for the teens, so the teens will grow up to become president. So hopefully, for them, they will have a communist at the head of the office by next generation….Don’t fight for a communist, fight for someone who belives in freedom, who belives you can have the right to vote, who belives you can talk for yourself other then have your dictator talk for YOU!

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By Netbug, June 2, 2007 at 3:10 am Link to this comment
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We have to deal with all kinda of anti-Christ rallies and anti-God’s plan protests and one set of Christian rallies gets you people all worked up. It’s amazing how we’re the ones being considered intolerable when you guys can’t seem to tolerate us. What’s even more amazing is how people who seem to say that don’t care cause such an uproar over some teens protesting.

If you actually took in Battlecry without coming in with an anti-christ attitude, you may see that most of what we’re protesting is junk in the media. So it’s bad to be against porn and sexual garbage in the media, huh?

I’ve been to Aquire the Fire, I sister event of Battlecry, and I can tell you that the racism and sexism this writer says is happening is flat out lies.

Also, just because Bush decided to hop onto he bandwagon doesn’t mean we’re all his minions. I’m an independent. Some of the Battlecry members are probably not happy with everything Bush does. I don’t pretend I am. Our leader is God, thank you very much.

This site claims to dig beneath the headlines, yet it’s spreading it’s own lies. It’s turned a fight to help give people hope and stop garbage in the media and turned it into an anti-conservative article.

Do you care that teens watching sexual images are more likely to get pregnant?

Do you care that violence is sweeping the nation in media?

Well, so do we. We are Christian teens standing for better values in the media and fighting against the corruption of our generation. If you want us to watch pron, you can keep on wishing, because we don’t want that crap in our faces. We’re sick of it.

P.S. If you hate us, you hate God. You may not believe in him, but sooner or later you’ll figure it out. We pray that it’s sooner, for your sake.

OUR VOICES WILL BE HEARD! WE WON’T BE SILENT!

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By Rob, May 25, 2007 at 9:25 pm Link to this comment
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I’m going to get kind of cheesy like a afterschool tv special, but let’s face….being a kid is tough. It is tough for everyone, and all kids go through problems REGARDLESS of where they grow up. If Ron Luce has told that up until the 1950’s kids were happy as can be by living in an uber-conservative christian society, that’s a load of crap.

Everyone is different, and everyone has problems. This generation, the next generation, your parent’s generation. Sometimes people have to make mistakes to learn and grow up.

I’m not saying some problems shouldn’t be confronted. But why not try simple solutions? A gigantic multi-million special effects and rock show extravaganza with constant zealous preaching and totalitarian overtones? Or how about just some friends getting together, getting parents in on it? A support group? Hell even a church group, whatever.

Somewhere in one of those Battlecry gatherings there is a kid who is not happy. He chants the slogans and still isn’t happy. He hangs his head and closes eyes and raises his hand and sings along with the christian nu metal band onstage, but he still isn’t happy. He wasn’t happy before and he still isn’t happy now, because he doesn’t know who he is. A generation is made up of individuals, and individuals shouldn’t feel guilty for being as such

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By Paul, May 24, 2007 at 10:16 pm Link to this comment

Rob does not sound scared to me.  His thoughts are clear and soundly based on observations of reality. He does not seem to accept that fantastical stories found in ancient writings are actually true, and he has good reasons for not doing so. I expect that he is infinitely more capable of analyzing the problems of modern society than folks who are distracted by misperceptions of reality and selfish desires for eternal life and ‘brownie points’ with the invisible gods.

I say again - the believing in made-up stuff is not all that bad in itself, if one does not mind remaining ignorant. When the ‘stuff’ is basically immoral, like the Bible fantasies, that could lead to bad things. But, deliberately trying to rally large numbers of young people to a mind-control program based on Bible morality is truly evil.  World history is replete with examples of the devastating effects of allowing religious organizations to permeate and influence society.

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By Rob, May 24, 2007 at 8:57 pm Link to this comment
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I’m not scared Jessica, more than anything I’m sad. Sad that, in the 21st century we still have conniving charlatans masquerading a saints and claiming to foster a revolution when all they do is perpetuate guilt, fear and superstition.

You claim to speak for your generation. What is a generation? It is a collective age group of individuals born around the same period. You don’t speak for your generation, despite what Luce claims, you speak for a faction. There isn’t much you can do to change this generation outside of giving money to Teen Mania/Battlecry and congregating at mega-stadiums to cheer at pyrotechnic shows and enjoy feel-good messages of combating pop culture conformity with dogmatic conformity.

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By jessica, May 24, 2007 at 10:25 am Link to this comment
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you know what i realise u are scared you are scared of what out generation can do well guess what you in for the ride of your life buddy cause we will not back down we will stand up and we will let our battle cry be heard!

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By Rob, May 16, 2007 at 4:16 pm Link to this comment
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yawn@people using imaginary demons and devils as scapegoats for the perceived societal ills that they vow to fight

I would take the time to read Luce’s book, just to get a clear understanding of how warped his archaic world view is to encourage ignorance, blindness and fanatical zealotry

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By Eric, May 16, 2007 at 2:25 pm Link to this comment
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I almost forgot. As for this literal war, you should all read “Battle Cry for My Generation.” pg 72 says

“This war is NOT being fought with tanks and bullets. The fight is a lot more subtle. Usually the devil is trying to do whatever he can to stay incognito. The war is being fought by small hanges to our culture through media and other influences that end up taking our focus off God. While it is true that this war is being fought by different means than most NATURAL wars we are used to, the results are the same: lives are destroyed.”

This proves it is all a metaphor for a spiritual batle raging inside us. When Luce says we must go into battle he is saying when must stand up to Satan and put an end to his control over our generation. Ms. Taylor should probably start trying to be a real reporter and look at the facts by doing actual research before ranting and raving like some drugged up conspiracy theorist.

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By Eric, May 15, 2007 at 2:06 pm Link to this comment
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Did you even listen to Ron Luce’s message at battle cry? I’ve read his books. You take what he says out of context for your own personal gain. The “battle” is a metaphor. He’s refering to a battle between ourselves and Satan.
You speak of being “brainwashed” but you let the author of this article brainwash you. None of you were at the battle cry but you all simply believe what has been written. You have been brainwashed to believe what a self righteous reporter has written.
Furhtermore, the Bible does not say that we stone anyone. As a matter of fact, Christ tells a crowd who is about to stone an adultress caught in the act that if anyone of them is free of sin to cast the first stone and they all leave. Really look at the facts and quit trying to manipulate truth by taking biblical stories out of their context.

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By Rob, May 15, 2007 at 11:59 am Link to this comment
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“does no one realize that without morales violence would consume the globe?  people could rape and murder and steal and kidnap at will because it would “be wrong” to say that they are doing wrong.”

Where do christians get off thinking that A) they essentially “own the rights” to morality and B) people outside their scope of thinking are incapable of morality?

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By Geoff, May 14, 2007 at 9:30 am Link to this comment
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I’m seeing the word brainwashing a lot here, not just in your post jacob.

I don’t condone the brainwashing of teens which is why I support the only group I see taking a stand against madison avenue and saying, “We the consumers decide what we want to consume.”  they also happen to say, “we consume what brings glory to God.”  I don’t disagree with or oppose either.

as for Teen Mania brainwashing teens themselves… you’ve obviously missed the point.  Ron’s messages during this season of battlecry events have been punctuated with the phrase, “count the cost” in other words “think before you decide and decide for yourself.”  He and his organization never have forced anyone to follow Christ, they have never called for physical or verbal abuse for those who don’t agree with Christianity, and they don’t support any sort of violent protesting.

Battlecry is just that… a battleCRY.  It is a determined effort to make a shout for integrity.  It may be a fight but Rosa Parks, Ghandi, and Martin Luther King fought in the same ways and though they were all hated by opposition they were never considered violent and no one today would say they brainwashed any of the people who followed them.  Battlecry is not trying to silence anyone else’s voice merely make their voices heard in a world that stifles morality especially when it pertains to Judeo-Christian principles.  does no one realize that without morales violence would consume the globe?  people could rape and murder and steal and kidnap at will because it would “be wrong” to say that they are doing wrong.  How is it violent, how is it brainwashing, how is it deplorable to implore that our young generation embrace integrity and morality? 

I will not comment on this article anymore because I have begun to realize that the majority of the people commenting here are just like sunsara taylor in missing the point of Teen Mania Ministries.  I would venture to say that few of you even know anything about Teen Mania beyond what you have read above.  so either believe everything you read online, or you could do some more research and try to be as accurate as possible in your assessment rather than consider an editorial to be your gospel even though it heralds no good news at all.

GEOFF

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By Darkslaye336, May 12, 2007 at 10:07 pm Link to this comment
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Hate….......Hate is in this blog…...hate screws things up…..hate kills…...Why must you hate us?

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By Paul, April 13, 2007 at 1:07 pm Link to this comment
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Many religious folks will inevitably go along with anything, if a charismatic leader couches his program in Jesus-talk. They can be made to give away their money for the benefit of their leaders, exclude other good people, and even kill others in the name of Jesus. This has been going on for thousands of years.

Ron Luce does not try to hide the fact that his is a militant hate-group that wants to control young minds.  He wants to strip each victim of his personality, will, and reason.  He uses the Jesus idea as a brainwashing tool.

Here are some quotes from Luce, “quotes that should scare you shitless”:
———————————-
http://audiolight.livejournal.com/323595.html

“We’re an army of God and we’re ready to die…. Let’s paint this big ol’ town red…. We see nothing but the blood of Jesus….”

“pew-sitters ... passive Christians ... the Christians who just want love, joy, peace ... [are the problem]”

“you’ve been amongst pew-sitters—watered-down Christians. Welcome to the reign of total submission to the Lord.”

“He doesn’t just want to be in your heart, He wants to own your heart… There’s only one good reason to come to Christ: because He’s the rightful owner of your life…. You don’t have to know much about Jesus, just enough to surrender your whole life.”
————————————-

This type of thing is harmful to individuals and to society as a whole.

Paul

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By pac, April 12, 2007 at 10:12 pm Link to this comment
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Hey, god-loves-you, It’s to bad that god hates the native americans, and disobediant children. I love you too, so i’ll let you throw the first stone at the child

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By Jacob, April 12, 2007 at 10:03 pm Link to this comment
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Geoff,
I quote
As for the things your friends said when you returned from this Teen Mania event, have you ever heard someone get fired up before a sporting event and say “we’re going to crush the opposite team!!” do they actually mean they will crush them?  Of course not!  it’s a matter of being excited and caught up in one’s own passion, such a man would not intend to do the irrational things he says and even if he did… his passion may not be untrue just misguided.

End quote

and yet, Mr. Luce repeatedly stated that “It is not a metaphor”, how can you justify the brainwashing of teens? (I am not checking this for new posts so I may not respond)

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By Jacob Atkins, April 12, 2007 at 9:54 pm Link to this comment
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If you believe in god, thats a personal choice, but don’t force it on others. And don’t try to say condoms don’t work and that stoning children is right.

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By God_loves_You, April 12, 2007 at 7:25 am Link to this comment
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i’m sorry that you feel this way about battle cry and teen mania. I’m soory that you aren’t a christian. I’m sorry that you haven’t taken the Jesus in as your lord and savior. i’m sorry that you wont have eternal life.
  But you can be saved just except Jesus in your heart as your lord and savior.

    (: But God still loves you smile

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By Lori Amythe, March 26, 2007 at 5:57 am Link to this comment
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I am just responding to some of the comments about Ron Luce and his Teen Mania events.  My daughter wants to go to Teen Mania (Honor Academy).  It is all she talks about.  I am hearing so much about Ron Luce and what he is doing with our teens, not letting them really think for themselves, from collecting extra money at concerts when they pay $50-80 anyway. Is it a cult, I wish I knew, is he brainwashing our children. I wouldnt mind hearing from more that have gone to his academy that didnt like it for whatever reason.  All we hear are the positive ones.  When you call the place they are very vague about everything. They can email me at .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

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By Karen, March 21, 2007 at 6:54 pm Link to this comment
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I spent a year at Teen Mania’s [Battlecry] internship, the Honor Academy. Previous to my year there, I was young and in love with the ministry and their ruthless leader, Ron Luce.
After a year of being scolded for my rebellion and watching my friends get sent home for breaking rules, I learned that TM doesn’t very well reflect the God of Love that I have spent my life seeking. They represent a load of fundamentalist bullshit that leads hundreds of thousands of youth to committing to live their lives in a certain fashion of depravation and self-denial that generally leads them to realizing humans aren’t supposed to live that way - stifled and emotionless - and then hopeless when they see that they can’t follow through. Awesome, right?
I’m glad someone is fighting for freedom from the bullshit that this ministry crys.

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By Rob, March 9, 2007 at 12:38 am Link to this comment
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Battlecry and Teen Mania both sicken me, yet I doubt they will have the impact they desire, at least not any time soon. 8 years of Bush hasn’t exactly made the landscape fertile for Christian fundamentalist movements.

So what does Battlecry do? Not really much of anything. They travel around the country in happy groups of boisterous teens who proceed to head with Luce to protests in major metropolitan cities. What do they protest against? The illegal occupation of Iraq? The diminishing rights of Americans? Poverty and violence in the inner cities? Nope. Battlecry are there to praise their beloved imaginary friend, stress their deep sadness that not everyone believes in or worships their imaginary friend, and believe that this country must be brought under the control of their imaginary friend so that America will begin to resemble the America people like Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell(who appears in one of their promotional videos) want to see exist. They are convinced that the America that was a twinkle in the eye of people like Thomas Paine and Thomas Jefferson was actually intended to be a protestant theocracy.

Of course, they deny allegations of wanting to install a theocracy. But remember, according to Christians, their religion is not a religion but a “relationship”. It doesn’t matter than pretty much every religion on earth can lay claim to the same identity, they truly believe that they are right.

Back to Battlecry. After rallying against nonbelief and rationality in the cities, they then proceed to actual Battlecry event; a hybrid of a Benny Hinn service mixed with Navy Seals teaching kids the godly virtue of M-16s, pro wrestling-style fireworks and Christian nu metal bands and hard rock bands…...really really HORRIBLE music I might add. And the kids cheer! They pump their fists in the air and summon as many hallelujahs and hosannas as they can muster. And then High Priest Ron takes the stage, instructs them that they need to be warriors for a long-dead Jewish reformer. That Jewish reformer was reputed to preach peace and compassion but High Priest Ron doesn’t want that. He wants war. And the enemies? Well, Battlecry, at first, seem to share a common enemy with the Left in that they say they are against corporate corruption. But this isn’t Enron we’re talking about. It’s Victoria’s Secret, Myspace, MTV and various other elements of society that are supposedly corrupting youth. Pre-marital sex is a big target and must be vanquished. Pop culture is an instrument of Satan himself. But they mean secular pop culture. As long as pop culture mentions an omnipotent anthropomorphic deity and his half-god Jewish reformer son, it’s okay. Look around the crowds of Battlecry, and you’ll notice the kids seem to be taking quite a shine to pop culture.

But that’s pretty much all Battlecry does. They amass and listen to terrible Linkin Park-like bands, cheer fireworks, pray to their imaginary friend while High Priest Ron incites them to some sort of action, albeit vague. Once the show is over, they go back to their lives as normal teens doing normal teen stuff. The pep rally sure made them feel fired up, but at the end of the day they are not accomplishing the great social change they seek. The Hitler Youth were scary because they were active in their communities and dedicated to the whims of the Third Reich. They didn’t just congregate and feel good talking about doing things, they actually went out and did them.

Until I see tank battalions rolling down the street adorned with Battlecry flags, I’m not going to be worried. Christian groups have been trying these proto-revolutionary youth organizations since the 60’s and while they appear to be forces to be reckoned with, they sort of whither and fade as people move on with their lives. Chances are the kids who attend Battlecry will probably be very different in 10+ years, and I doubt they will become the pro-theocracy rebels they claim to be.

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By peter bloom, February 26, 2007 at 2:20 am Link to this comment
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as a canadian, there is a detail that concerns me when i detect a ‘battlecry’ against immorality in the united states - it’s called ‘history’.  how often does one culture need to make the same mistake?  the bible seems to have been used time and time again to promote conservative politics down there - remember slavery?  thank goodness there is an emerging liberal voice…

peter

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By Ingrid, February 7, 2007 at 1:50 pm Link to this comment
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I am saddened and distressed by the teenmania organization and the battlecry events.  I was raised a Christian and still have a strong faith.  However, that faith has been born from not only my Christian background, but my studies of other cultures and religions.  I have seen footage of these events and they make me want to cry.  Not since watching Hitler Youth Rally footage have a seen events on this scale, and I might remind you that they too firmly believed and had faith that they were in the right.  It is impossible not to draw the parallel between the Hitler Youth Movement and teenmania & battlecry events because one monumental similarity links them:  their use of glorified militaristic images to mold their followers way of thinking.  No one can deny that the youth of America are impressionable, but I find it interesting that Ron Luce condemns the press and media for their advertising campaigns and yet employs the same tactics to further his own agenda.
Embrace your faith, be strong in it, but do not for a moment close yourself off to other ideas and opinions.  Remember, Jesus said that the greatest of all things is love, even greater than faith.  So let’s all undraw the “battle lines” and focus on cultivating love for one another because in Jesus’ eyes, we’re all neighbors.

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By GEOFF, January 23, 2007 at 11:37 pm Link to this comment
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Paul I would appreciate it if you did not speak so knowledgeably of an organization you obviously know very little about.

battlecry isn’t even the name of the organization… it’s the name of an event put on by teenmania.  teenmania’s mission is merely to speak out to the young generation to call them to passionately pursue Christ.  nothing is forced on them, nothing is presented in a fashion to brainwash them and they are not required to believe anything that they don’t want to believe; that doesn’t fit the description of a cult whatsoever.  It’s just a call… the choice to answer is up to them.

this young generation also sees calls through the internet to pursue pornography, or through the television to pursue whatever product happens to be selling, or from boyfriends, girlfriends and peers to try casual sex, drugs, alcohol, and other self-destructive behaviors… but no one who protests battlecry’s call will say that any of the above is not a call worthy to be sent.  why is that paul?  why is that?


battlecry is also geared towards calling teens to pursue morality and purity… how can this be perceived as immoral?  your statement seems to contradict itself.

concerning the warlike nature of battlecry: the call is not to shed human blood or any physical blood but to combat the evil desires of our own hearts and the things which tempt us.  if someone said they were battling cancer you would not assume they were going to rise up and shed blood would you?  And yet the atrophy of our society can only be credited to the cancer of immorality, of lack of responsibility, of lack of character.  should we not oppose them? 

concerning “unseen ghosts” the dark forces of the world don’t speak audibly my friend; they don’t speak with voices that you are concious of.  they are very real though, they plant the motivation behind the dark crimes that plague our headlines, their words are plastered all over adult internet and tabloid covers, their messages slip unconciously through your eyes through the cries of the pop culture and the ads employing models of promescuity and materialism.  Battlecry calls teens to stop listening to them and expose them to others, but I wonder what kind of evil that you or any other unaware person might do if they talked you into it, especially considering that everyone has been “hearing” them since birth. 

I have doubts that this will make sense to you if it does reach your eyes, because you hold up reality to symbolism so I would ask you as a fellow seeker of the truth: define reality?  try to give me a practical and logical explaination of the world we live in without any sort of symbolism or imagery.  I had come to the conclusion that the meaning of life and the universe was a thing to vast and intricate to describe in anything but an image, and the only image that appears to make sense to me is that we are in a conflict, a conflict threatening the safety of the minds, hearts, and souls of this generation.

I would like to conclude saying that I do respect whatever decision you have made as to what you believe for it is your choice, but I would reiterate that you at least research the organization that you speak ill of before you do so.  I have met Mr Luce, heard him speak on several occasions, and maintain his acquaintance; I don’t agree with everything he says or the eccentricity with which he says it, but I will say that he has a heart only for bringing life and joy to this young generation, especially the life he has found through Jesus Christ.  Before you speak ill of him or of teenmania again… at least think about what you’re saying, and know enough about whom you say it.

I also hope you’ll not look at the above as heated anger because after reading it over again I realized it might come across that way…  it’s merely a friendly discussion to me even if there’s a slight debate involved.

May God bless you and His Spirit lead you into all truth.

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By Paul, January 23, 2007 at 11:48 am Link to this comment
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Anne’s previous post illustrates the dangers of mind-influencing cults like BattleCry.

Anne has come to think that it is good to embrace the symbolism of war and fighting.  She advocates some kind of violent overthrow of imaginary ghosts.  She seems to say that we should not follow the laws.  She wants to look at the world in terms of bizarre mental imagery rather than in terms of reality.

Most alarming are the heightened emotional tone and Anne’s apparent feeling that her delusions are somehow very important on a larger scale. It makes you wonder what kind of evil Anne could be talked into committing based on messages from unseen ghosts, as delivered by BattleCry?

This type of disordered thinking is definitely made worse by reading verses from the Bible and attending cult exercises in mass hysteria.

The activites of organizations like BattleCry are immoral and serve to divide people against each other.  Such groups often use the powerful mind influencing power of religious superstition to prey on young people.  It is immoral to instill violent images and fantasies about fighting imaginary wars into young people.  It’s wrong to make youngsters think that evil spirits exist in reality.  If this type of movement is allowed to fester and grow, it could undo all the advancements that have been made by science and secular society in the past two hundred years by tainting the minds of our descendents with the Bible virus.

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By Anne Marquez, January 20, 2007 at 9:03 am Link to this comment
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1.  The militaristic drama on stage is SYMBOLIC of the holy war we are to engage with evil influences that ensnare people.
a.  Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armour of God so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. For our struggle is NOT AGAINST FLESH AND BLOOD, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Ephesians 6:10-12
b.  This means that we are to use the ‘armor’ and ‘sword’ of the Lord, which is his Word (the Bible). Please do not fail to misunderstand the metaphors intended in the Bible
2.  For every argument against the Bible that calls it ‘sexist,’ ‘violent,’ and ‘ridiculous’ and uses the Old Testament to back it up. I want to let you know that Christians are now LIVING UNDER THE NEW TESTAMENT (NEW COVENANT)
a.  “10All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” 11Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.” 12The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, “The man who does these things will live by them.” 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.” 14He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
The Law and the Promise
15Brothers, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. 16The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ. 17What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.

19What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator. 20A mediator, however, does not represent just one party; but God is one.” Galatians 3:10-20
b.  Here are our two greatest commandments, and you tell me yourself if they truly make Christians fascist or violent. “12:30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’12:31 The second is: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’There is no other commandment greater than these.” 12:32 The expert in the law said to him, “That is true, Teacher; you are right to say that he is one, and there is no one else besides him. 12:33 And to love him with all your heart, with all your mind, and with all your strength and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.” Mark 12 and Matthew 22.

JUST TRULY STUDY THE BIBLE MORE AND PRAY THAT GOD LETS YOU UNDERSTAND HIS WORD AND YOU WILL FINALLY SEE THE TRUTH.

Love, Anne Marquez

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By TruthGiver, December 23, 2006 at 11:04 pm Link to this comment
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Mrs.Sunsara Taylor, You need to “study” some more, and stop your biased opinions, clearly you know nothing about Ron Luce(who is more educated than you and the other biblical “critics” who commented on this site), so why don’t you go study the organization you strongly stand against, and also, study the God you seem to “hate” so much, Overall, you display ignorance to Christianity and to Teen Mania Ministries, I would even go as far as to call you a conspiracy theorist. Read some more books, Attend some more classes, abandon your biased anti-Christian views, and then you’ll be a step closer to questioning Ron Luce and/or Teen Mania Ministris.

With The Love of Christ,
David

P.S-For those of you reading this; seek truth, and he will reveal himself to you-Jesus

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By Paul, December 6, 2006 at 8:37 am Link to this comment
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Having fantasies about gods and spirits is not so bad in itself, but using these fantasies for mass manipulation of young people is wrong. Infecting young minds with the Christian virus will have a negative affect on the future of our society.  It would be much better to educate young people on critical thinking and rational morality.

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By Found Truth, November 30, 2006 at 10:05 pm Link to this comment
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This is regarding the comment #36252 by suzanne gagne. Suzanne, the only reason Teen Mania would have called for those reasons is if your daughter told them that she was interested in going on a mission trip this summer. I am one of those people who have received those calls (twice now), but they were in no way a surprise to me as everthing was explained at the event. I am glad that your daughter is a new Christ-follower but it seems that you need to communicate your concerns with her and see what she has to say. Also I just want to say that if your daughter does go on a mission trip that she will see God’s miracles. I personally saw a Setswanan (I think that is what you call people from Botswana though I could easily be wrong) who could not walk for years get healed right in front of me. This cannot be explained by anything but God’s awesome power.

As for the BattleCry, though I admit that I don’t know Ron personally, I severely doubt that a physical army against non-believers would exist under him. I do support BattleCry but I would not support some of the things that Sunsara Taylor is trying to make it out to be.

One last thing, I think Ron Luce’s comment on Sunsara’s anger was pretty obviously out of love and not an attempt to run away from defending the bible. I am only a 16 year old teen, but I would like to try to help any Christians who are confused about all of this or any non-believer that has an open mind.

Though I am not perfect (not even close), I am only trying to love.

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By fyrefly, November 30, 2006 at 6:33 pm Link to this comment
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I don’t believe in the “God” of the Bible, because I’ve read the Old Testament.  Anyone who calls themself a “Christian” and quotes the Bible on a day-to-day basis: do you ever quote the Old Testament?  Leviticus?  What about in 2 Kings, when “Elisha is jeered” by some youths who make fun of him for being “bald,” so he asks God to curse them and two bears come out of the woods and MAUL forty-two of them?  A God who causes 42 kids to be attacked by bears… now THAT’S the Almighty Creator I’m going to pray to.  Oh, and in Leviticus - who could forget Leviticus?  “Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed;” “Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material;” and my favorite - “If a man sleeps with a woman who is a slave girl promised to another man but who has not been given her freedom, there must be due punishment…yet they are not to be put to death, because SHE HAD NOT BEEN FREED.”  Hm, a God who approves of slavery (in women, no less).
“Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.” According to these “rules,” the greater part of American men are screwed.

What is up with all these ridiculous rules?  And why don’t all CHRISTIANS withhold them?  I understand that those who call themselves “Followers of Christ” PREFER to focus on the New Testament, but how can they deny THE ORDERS OF GOD written in the Old?  Obviously, they are the WORDS OF GOD.  If we don’t all go sacrifice rams and doves on a weekly basis, we are sure to go to Hell.

I could go on listing these ridiculous quotes, but I haven’t the time or desire to type out the entire Old Testament.

Thanks guys!

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By Tammi, November 20, 2006 at 6:39 am Link to this comment
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Hello,
  I really disagree with everything that you said.  you wrote that “‘abstinence’ as a way to prevent STDs kills people”.  Wow.  I’d really like to see the clinical study on that.  Also, you seem to bash the troops in Iraq a lot.  You need to understand that Battle Cry is NOT a political organization.  It is CHRISTIAN, NOT POLITICAL.  We are not supporting nor bashing the war in Iraq. (Even though I myself support it.)  You also put a video of Battle Cry up.  That was not a good one.  All it was is pictures of the youth group who went.  If you truely want people to know the truth about Battle Cry, they should have watched this one- http://youtube.com/watch?v=2XwZ11mbaXE&mode=related&search;="battlecry" concert.

Thank you for reading this.

In Christ’s Love,

  Tammi

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By Ryan Tucker, November 16, 2006 at 10:03 am Link to this comment
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WOW!!!  I can’t believe all the hate streaming from so many “Christian’s” mouths!!! There is no room for hate if you truly love. Jesus spopke of love and love only… show me once where he said it is okay to judge others… just once. The only people he evr condemned were those who made money off of those seeking spiritual guidance (turning over the tables in the temple, etc. etc.) so if that is the case…. hey doesn’t sweet old Ron charge people to come to his Acquire the Fire rallies…. something like anywhere from $35 to $99. Hmmmm? What would Jesus do about that? I think he would kick Ron in his a$$. So For thosse of you who want to preach about sin and damnation… why don’t you really read the words of Jesus and see what he has to say… and leave Ron to ponder his own thoughts…. essentially I’m telling you to all grow a brain and a heart… becaus people who judge and hate anything don’t know squat about love.

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By joseph, November 8, 2006 at 1:28 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

God is not into vengance hes very loving towards all but he does hate our sin, and hes not punishing us unless the great punishment is leting us have our way.depends how you look at it.  see we all have to make acount at the end of our lives then is when we really resieve punishment.  for all the bad we did.


so God doesnt cause wars and huricanes to punish us he lets us have our way ... there are consequenses of coars like aids and other known s.t.d.s those our are choice.  think about it im out pease… all the love….

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By amy hope, November 7, 2006 at 10:11 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

hi there,

i would just like to say that i’ve also gone to ATF and wow!

i must say that some of the things you said are simply outrageously false and show just how deceived those on the extreme left are. i don’t want to sound proud or self righteous but, i’m praying for you :>

here’s one thing that i wanted to say, A God of justice demands that there be a clear right and wrong, good and bad. and if he didn’t punish those who rebel agaisnt all that is good (himself) and who love evil then that would make God a hypocrite.

After all someone cannot love what is good without hating what is evil!

i could not say really say that i truly loved and valued each human baby conceived without also hating that abortion is legal and opposing all the bloodshed.

how does abstinece kill people? i’ve never heard of someone dying because they waited.

my sister got married at age 20, and now 21 she has a beautiful baby boy, both she and her husband waited till marrige to have sex. 

please truly search for the truth! you will find it if you look past all the lies, predjudices, hate, and fear.

don’t settle for less.


love in Christ,

+me

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By Geoff, November 3, 2006 at 10:37 am Link to this comment
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I don’t know if you’ll be monitoring this comment list to read this response, fyrefly, and yet I cannot help but respond.

As for the things your friends said when you returned from this Teen Mania event, have you ever heard someone get fired up before a sporting event and say “we’re going to crush the opposite team!!”  do they actually mean they will crush them?  Of course not!  it’s a matter of being excited and caught up in one’s own passion, such a man would not intend to do the irrational things he says and even if he did… his passion may not be untrue just misguided.  Regardless, I can assure you that God has no intention of raising up NAZIs for Him.  His battle isn’t even with people, it’s with satan and the dark forces of the world(if you want more on that read my previous comment on this site or read Eph 6:12)

As for your statement, “Our job in life is not to convert others, to help them get “saved.””  I will totally agree with you on that.  Our job is not to get them “saved”, that’s God’s job and the choice of every man whether or not he will let God save them much like a man trapped on his roof during a flood while a rescue chopper hovers above him has a choice whether or not to drown or take the rescuer’s hand and be saved.  God does call us to ““Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.” (Mark 16:15 NIV).  this passage goes on to say, “Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned”.  We have turned from God you cannot deny, something has gone terribly wrong with the human race and that can only be attributed to moral decay; this is a moral standard set by God that we have strayed from.  Even though, as our creator, he would have right, by any standard, to wipe us all out and start over, he instead decides to give us our ENTIRE LIVES to “believe and… be saved”.  You can call that unfair or say that you will never worship a God who sends people to hell but I say that a God who will do that for such a twisted creation of his as man has become deserves more praise than I could ever give.

You left your comment with a question to think about: “God gave you your life.  Why are you giving it back?”.  I took your advice and thought about it and what I came up with is that that question is on the same level as asking a bride on her wedding day, “He gave you his love.  Why are you giving it back?”  The answer is obviously, “because I love him that’s why!”  God gave us life so we could have a relationship with him.  He loved us enough to give us life.  He never asks us to go to hell for Him like He did for us.  He asks us to love him and to live for Him, which is easy enough to do for the man who took not just my punishment or yours (which was an eternity of death and hell by the way), but he took the punishment due to the entire world for eternity in only three days.  So that’s why I give him my life, because he spent Himself to rescue me, it’s the least I can do to show I’m grateful.  frankly, the selfish and ungrateful thing to do would be to keep it for myself or live it in a way that did not please Him. 

As for your comments about Christians being brainwashed or close-minded I would say that yes, some are and it’s lamentable that they are… but they don’t have to be.  I can see you are a person who wants to find the truth, I would encourage you to be open-minded yourself and don’t shut this out until you are absolutely convinced that everything you’ve been taught about God, or Jesus, or the Holy Spirit is farce.  If you need a place to look I would encourage you to read “Mere Christianity” by C.S. Lewis.  Lewis examines nearly every type of philosophy or religion in a very open-minded manner that I found essential to my own search for truth. 

Just know that I have come to believe in God after much trial and error that I’ve gone through looking for the truth, and that I will pray to Him that he reveal himself to you in an unmistakable way.

GEOFF

P.S.: if you want to contact me with any other questions you may encounter on your search or if you find any information to prove me wrong then I would like to know about it.  please visit my blog on http://www.xanga.com/captain_awesome__o.

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By joseph, November 2, 2006 at 5:59 pm Link to this comment
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when i went to this event at the city hall i was skepticle ron sounded wierd but i listened to him and realized that thing have got out of hand media is poluting my mind and the minds of my entire generation. its not easy living pure in a world with decaying morals. our generation is falling we need a change. this lady directly opposes our right to live life the way the contitution says we can this taylor lady is wrong.  shes playing a political game for your teens votes..  please dont let my gen fall

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By suzanne gagne, November 2, 2006 at 1:22 pm Link to this comment
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my daughter attended one of those rally first thing we know is she gets a phone call asking her for money and where does she want to go in the ministry to another country ,,,,,,,come on now she is just a new christian she doesnt even have absorb all that happened to her yet ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;i would like to know who else had that kind of experiences ........bad or good please let me know
        god bless
and yes i am a christain but those guys are scary and Ron Luce raiks the money from the kids

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By joseph, October 26, 2006 at 11:27 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

these comments are face less and emoral and there is no reason to condem the kids who just want a change

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By fyrefly, October 15, 2006 at 7:53 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Whoever wrote this article should be praised for doing so.  I attended “Acquire the Fire” last January, in which Ron Luce came and preached to us about many of the afore mentioned issues.  I must admit, I was pretty sold over - I swore that I could “feel God in the room with me,” though looking back I now realize that the impressive base speakers and excitement caused by the “famous” guest bands amounted to an overwhelming sensation I had never felt before - a new sensation I tragically attributed to God’s “presence.”  After the program, I went home and announced to my family that I had been “saved,” that I wanted to “dedicate my life to Jesus,” and that I needed to go out and buy a Bible as soon as possible.  This whole conversion nearly killed my mother, as she has always encouraged me to be open-minded.. and there I was, closing up my mind like thousands of other brainwashed teenagers.
I detest organized religion, but more importantly - I hate this idea of “free-lance” Christians, or “Followers of Christ” who have a “relationship with Jesus,” rather than an established “religion.” After the ATF program, I went back with my friend’s youth group and we all discussed what we had heard… one of the kids there vehemently suggested that the “Warriors of Christ begin establishing a real, physical army - so that we can fight the non-believers when the time comes.  A mental army is not going to be enough.” If THAT doesn’t suggest a NAZI-like influence, then what does?
I think that these “Followers of Christ” are terribly, terribly selfish.  Our job in life is not to convert others, to help them get “saved.” God would not put people on Earth just so they could go to hell if “Christians” failed to save them - that’s an absolutely ridiculous idea, and I would never worship such a God.  I’m extremely spiritual… I love God.  I just hate Ron Luce.

Think about this: God gave you your life. Why are you giving it back? It just seems rather insulting and ungrateful.

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By Jesus follower, October 7, 2006 at 10:33 am Link to this comment
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ok, something that a lot of people that are against Christians don’t seem to get THE BIGGEST PART of Christianity… Jesus, we are called to have a personal and intimate relationship with Jesus, and people like Sunsara Taylor don’t quite understand that a lot of us (us Christians, that is) were people like her, that we didn’t understand it, so we didn’t like it, my uncle used to be very atheist-like, now he works for Youth For Christ, and he is an awesome person. I, myself, didn’t really care about it all, i didn;t see any point in having a good realtionship with Jesus until they OPENED MY EYES (battlecry) all thanks to Ron Luce, i now want to get a stronger relationship with him every day because of how awesome it is to have him as a friend, to trust in him, how he’ll put jokes in my head and make me laugh, every part of the relationship is wonderful becasue he loves me so much,and i love him so much… i hope and pray that even Sunsara Taylor becomes Christian, and grows a strong and persoanl and intimate relationship with Jesus before she dies.


in Christ,
A Jesus Follower

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By Geoff, September 12, 2006 at 7:07 pm Link to this comment
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I think the reason for such confusion on the part of non-believers as to what Christians really believe is that Christians aren’t even sure of that.  the diversity of beliefs, out of context interpretations, and distortion of basic biblical truths over the past 2000 years have led non-believers to distrust anything with the name Christian on it.

I am not a Christian, in that sense… I am a follower of Christ and a servant of the God of Love that the bible really talks about.  and while I do take offense, both at Ron Luce’s mistakes in portrayal of God’s character and of the above article, I prayed for you when I read it and for those who have also read it.  That truth would be revealed to you

this site is about digging for the truth.  the truth about God is not found by looking at people, even his people are human.  I am human.  you will never find the truth of God’s nature by looking anywhere but God.  I’m not trying to tell anyone what to believe by the way.  I just want the truth to be understood instead of made up, philosophized, and speculated by people who have done inadequate research.

In regards to Battle Cry’s nature, followers of Christ have no intention of starting a bloody battle and kill off people who don’t believe what we believe.  The battle is not against people at all, it’s between God and Lucifer.  people have a decision as to which side they take, but God’s will is that none of them would side with his enemy, because his enemy has come to steal, kill, and destroy.  whether you believe in either or not this is what followers of Christ believe.  we are fighting a battle yes but it’s not against people, it’s against satan.  some people have sided with satan, it’s not our intention to destroy them, but to rescue them, or at the very least, to make satan’s tactics through them void. 

No one sees a pep rally as dangerous, it’s merely a gathering of people in support of the same cause (a sports team’s victory) to get pumped up and excited about what will happen.  Battle cry should not be seen as a facist call to war, merely a gathering of people in support of a same cause (rescuing people from what will eventually destroy them) to support each other and call them to excellence.  No one discourages school spirit, why should the Holy Spirit be that way.

Ultimately though, we believe we were all on the way to the same destruction.  We can’t brag about anything except that Christ has rescued us.  and Whether you believe that or not I will tell you that in my life that is the truth. 

think of it this way.  a man is alcoholic but a functioning one.  he can hold a job, hold his life together well enough, he has friendships (some of his friends may be drinking buddies even), but he has a constant desire for alcohol that needs to be met, that need will eventually cause him health problems that can kill him.  He realizes this and decides to quit drinking.  he sees a skilled doctor who specializes in recovering from alcoholism.  it’s a hard struggle but he goes back to see the doctor regularly and experiences more freedom every day that he keeps the commitment up.  eventually he’s totally off the bottle.  Now he has experienced a total release from his addiction, what’s the first thing you would do if you were in his situation??

What I would do, and what many followers of Christ think is the most loving thing to do is go to the people still stuck in their alcoholism and share with them the freedom we’ve come to know. (note: I don’t condemn the consumtion of alcohol in moderation but everyone knows that large amounts lead to serious problems and so works for the analogy).  once you’re free you don’t have the heart to see anyone else in bondage when freedom is within their grasp, just one decision… and a far easier one than chosing to quit drinking: “...Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved…” (Acts 16:31 NIV).  That’s what we’re really trying to do with all this.

I apologize on behalf of any believers in Christ’s redeeming power for any misinterpretation of our intentions regarding evangelism, or for methods used that did not glorify God and so blemished our testimony.  Frankly, God is so glorious that nothing any of us could do would wreck his true image.  so look to Him for the truth “...seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened to you.” (Matt 7:7 NIV)

Continue seeking the truth…  I will continue praying we all will find it…

GEOFF

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By Ragus, August 25, 2006 at 2:22 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Young people are being duped into thinking that Biblical values are ‘good’ values.  That is not so bad in itself, but hate groups like this also seek to influence public policy and enact into laws their lower standards of moral judgement.  That is the pragmatic problem with these groups.

The ultimate problem with groups like this is that god simply does not exist.  The idea of god is a product of the human imagination.  Magical thinking is not a good method of deciding a proper course of life.

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By KD, August 24, 2006 at 6:26 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I and many people will be praying for you.

Sex is meant as a good thing AFTER you get married.

Serving Him and Him only

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By John Chalus, July 31, 2006 at 8:51 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The SEAL in the photo is probably the REAL DEAL. His weapon is pointed down and he is no doubt using blanks. So there is no real danger. John Chalus

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By rodney, July 30, 2006 at 3:40 pm Link to this comment
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Are you sure that guy is a Navy SEAL? I was never in the service but I know that you should never point the muzzle of a gun at anything you don’t intend to shoot.

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