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Battle Cry for Theocracy

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Posted on May 11, 2006
World Can't Wait protests against BattleCry
From worldcantwait.net

Protesters allied with the anti-Bush organization The World Can’t Wait attempt to drown out a March 26 rally by the anti-gay Christian evangelical group BattleCry. The rally occurred on the steps of San Francisco’s City Hall, where homosexual couples had been married.

By Sunsara Taylor

Editor’s note: In this opinion piece, a young activist explores the frightening world of a Christian evangelical youth movement that is holding rock concerts and rallies at city halls nationwide this weekend.

(First column a series of three. Second column here, third column here.)

  • Update: Read what BattleCry attendees are saying about this series of columns.
  •  

  • Update #2: User-submitted photos available: page 1 and page 2

  • If you?ve been waiting to get alarmed until the Christian fascist movement started filling stadiums with young people and hyping them up to do battle in ?God?s army,? wait no longer. 

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    In recent weeks, BattleCry, a Christian fundamentalist youth movement, has attracted more than 25,000 people to mega-rally rock concerts in San Francisco and Detroit, and this weekend it plans to fill Wachovia Stadium in Philadelphia.

    The leaders of BattleCry claim that their religion and values are under attack, but amid spectacular light shows, Hummers, Navy SEALs and military imagery on stage, it is BattleCry that has declared war on everyone else. Its leader, Ron Luce, insists: ?This is war. And Jesus invites us to get into the action, telling us that the violent—the ?forceful? ones—will lay hold of the kingdom.? 

    BattleCry is a part of the evangelical organization Teen Mania, and you can learn a lot about the kind of society that Teen Mania is fighting for by reading up on its Honor Academy, a non-accredited educational institution that offers directed internships to 700 undergraduate and graduate youth each year. Among the academy?s tenets: Homosexuality and masturbation are sins. Interns are forbidden to listen to secular music, watch R-rated movies or date; men can?t use the Internet unsupervised; the length of women?s skirts is regulated. The logic behind this—that men must be protected from the sin of sexual temptation—is what drives Islamic fundamentalists to shroud women in burkhas!

    Teen Mania and BattleCry are multimillion-dollar operations that send more than 5,000 missionaries to more than 34 countries each year. Their supporters and members are some of the most powerful and extreme religious lunatics in the country. BattleCry?s ?partners? include Pat Robertson (who got a call from Karl Rove to discuss Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito before the nomination was made public), Charles Colson (who as President Richard Nixon’s lawyer was knee-deep in the Watergate scandal and who went to jail for obstruction of justice in the Pentagon Papers case), and Jerry Falwell (who blamed Sept. 11 on homosexuals, feminists, pagans and abortionists). BattleCry?s events have been addressed by former First Lady Barbara Bush (via video) as well as former President Gerald Ford. This weekend?s event will include Franklin Graham, who has ministered to George W. Bush and publicly proclaimed that Islam is an ?evil religion.?

    What most of these figures have in common is their insistence that the Bible be read literally and obeyed as the inerrant word of God. And, because Ron Luce leads youth to say in prayer, ?I will keep my eyes on the battle, submitting to Your code even when I don?t understand,” it would be foolish to expect that there is any part of the Bible?s literal horrors this movement would be unwilling to enforce, including stoning disobedient children and non-virgin brides (Deuteronomy 21:18-21 and 22:13-21), executing gays (Leviticus 20:13), and keeping slaves (Peter 2:18).

    Luce’s followers staged a protest in March on the steps of San Francisco?s City Hall because gay weddings had taken place there. Their answer to the scourge of rape and violence against women is to end the right of divorce, spread ignorance and insist on virginity -? the very things that will entrap more women in these nightmares. And this Friday, they are planning rallies at 50 city halls nationwide.

    Of course, like the president, who gave Ron Luce an appointment to the White House Advisory Commission on Drug-Free Communities, BattleCry tells its share of bald-faced lies. For one, it claims that ?a society fortified by Biblical principals and a strong moral code ... is the heritage our forefathers fought and died to secure for us.? But the word “God” never appears in the Constitution. After three and a half months of debate about what should go into the document that would govern the land, the framers drafted a secular constitution.

    BattleCry also claims America has been ?set aside for God?s purposes -? a country established for good and fruitfully blessed so that we might take God?s message to the ends of the earth.? It is revealing that for all its talk about the value of life and the evils of violent imagery, BattleCry never speaks against the real violence and loss of life being inflicted by U.S. troops in Iraq.

    Still, there is one thing that BattleCry gets right: This country is in the midst of a deep moral crisis. We are indeed living through times when business-as-usual is unconscionable.

    As the Bush regime wages unjust wars and conducts torture in our names, as it leaves New Orleans to rot and drags us closer each day to a theocracy in which abortion and birth control are banned, science is pulled under and gays are persecuted, it is no wonder that young people are searching for meaning and morality. However, the truth is that youth will not find the morality they need in a stadium listening to Ron Luce preach about religious war and intolerance. And they won?t find it while buying BattleCry?s keepsake dog tags. 

    These young people need to be challenged to look around themselves and think for themselves. 

    I am confident that if they do, many of them may find that the truly moral way to live is to throw their tremendous energies and dreams of a better world into stopping this madness and driving out the Bush regime.

    This generation ?- and its counterparts around the world -? will have to live with the consequences of this culture war, one way or another.


    Sunsara Taylor writes for Revolution newspaper and sits on the advisory board of The World Can?t Wait—Drive Out the Bush Regime.


    New and Improved Comments

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    By Joanna, August 14, 2006 at 4:50 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    Dear Joe,
          I am 16, I’m sorry that that is the impression that you were left with when you read the Bible. But, God does not approve of slaves. What you need to understand, is that when Christ died for us on the cross, when his blood ran down that tree; He not only conquered death for those who CHOOSE to believe in Him, but He also abolished many of the past criteria to be forgiven. Before, you had to offer sacrifices of animals, but now, you just ask forgiveness. (read anywhere in the New testament.)

      And because of that we no longer have to worry about that. You’re right, we shouldn’t read horoscopes. I don’t read them, because I know, my future is secure in Christ. As far as impure animals. . . acts 10:9-22 shows that we are not to judge anything that God made as impure.

      AS far as sexually immoral conduct. . . 1st Corinthians 5:9-12. If you were to read that you would understand things a lot of people don’t understand. We, Christians, aren’t supposed to judge the world. We aren’t supposed to hate the lesbians, the homosexuals, the murderers, the rapists, or any people, we are supposed to hate the sin, love the sinner. (for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God…..and the wages of Sin is Death, but the Gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 3:23, Romans 6:23)

      But, I understand how you feel. Some people who call themselves Christians don’t give love, they just hate, they don’t seek God, they just want fire - insurance; they just don’t want Hell. And I have met those people and all I can do is pray for them. And I am sorry that this is the impression and the only people that you have encountered. Christianity is supposed to be about love. About forgiveness. It’s a constant struggle. But, Christianity isn’t about us reaching up to God by our works…if it were, it would be religion. But, rather, it’s God reaching down to us. IT’s a relationship.

      So, through us, God perfects us, through our screwy and horrible ways. We are horrible people, but through us, GOD IS GOOD. GOD SHINES THROUGH US and makes us the way we are. Everyone struggles with some sin. . . we aren’t perfect. but we ask forgiveness…forgiveness for seeking material things, for seeking glory, for not loving and He forgives us. . . .

    Once again, I am so intensely sorry that the only type of Christian you have met, wasn’t loving and wasn’t caring.

    Report this

    By Rose, August 13, 2006 at 12:29 am Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    Hmm.. Kind of interesting how in this thread alone one can see the shadows of the spiritual war at hand. As for all of the teens who posted, I am proud of you all. It takes courage to stand up and you did it. = ) Satan talks it up, but there’s nothing behind it. Just fyi this “movement” will never dissolve because there is an all mighty God standing behind this generation of teenagers who want to do His will. I find it kind of ironic how these anti-battlecry individuals are calling “good evil and evil good.” Kind of ironic… Now, why is it so important to bash a youth-event anyways? It’s not ya’lls business and you obviously never went (therefore you know nothing about it.) So why bother unless you are in fact a tool of the enemy?

    Report this

    By Joe London, July 13, 2006 at 11:39 am Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    Brian [13691] speaks about the “standards set by the Bible”!

    Well, according to the Bible one should have a full, untrimmed, beard [Leviticus 19:27], tattoos are forbidden [Leviticus 19:28], you can’t eat rabbits, pigs, shellfish such as shrimp, lobsters, crabs, clams [Lev. 11:10-12], it is ok to have slaves [Leviticus 19:20], you must not read horoscopes [Lev. 19:31] and many other outlandish prescriptions that of course are the result NOT of the word of God, but the words of humans with their cultural habits.

    It seems to me that American fundamentalists are very keen on cherry-picking “standards” from the Old Testament, accepting some, and forgetting about others. And it seems to me that they love a lot the Old Testament because they can find everything and its contrary there (therefore they can choose what fits their vision) while they are often gaily forgetful of the New Testament.

    I am yet to see what Christianity (that is the words of Jesus Christ) has to do with:
    - killing hundreds of thousands of people with wars based on deceit
    - giving to the rich and taking away from the poor (tax cuts to the rich)
    - lack of national health insurance
    - capital punishment
    - torture, rape, extraordinary renditions
    - feverish consumerism
    - polluting and destroying the planet
    - hate towards those who love, even if not sanctified by a piece of paper issued by arrogant authorities
    - hate towards sexual drive in its natural non-violent manifestations

    So, Christians, if you want to be coherent, abandon you “gay obsession” and pursue the true values of Christianity: stop pursuing material possesions, your TV, your stereos [true “evangelical poverty”], supporting war, hate and capital punishment, preach poverty.

    Give some freaking TRUE Christian example instead of adapting ancient books to current hypocrisy.

    Report this

    By brian, July 13, 2006 at 8:24 am Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    To anyone who reads this: this page is linked to"the World Can’t Wait” website, if you look on this site i must ask you, “Which site seems more fanatical?”
    Battle Cry
    or
    World Can’t Wait?

    S.T.‘s link to this site and her beliefs that children should not be tought abstinance?
    that killing an unborn baby is ok?
    That homosexual acts are natural? and ok?

    And it seems funny that the “Worlds” problems are put on a man that is only in office for 4 to 8 years.

    It seems people are missing the point
    When this country was great we didn’t do the following:
    Supported any Gay or Lesbien movements or “rights”
    Openly supported Abortions
    Supported that underage and unmarried sex is “OK”

    These are things that have radicaly changed our country for the worse.

    I have to ask the non-Christian readers and writers to this column this
    If you are not going to live by the morals and standards set by the Bible, then are you going to force others to live by your “OWN” set of morals
    that you have “Made Up” to fit your situations, your “Life Style” choice?

    Don’t blame Bush for this countries lowered set of morals, blame yourself for allowing it in the first place. If there are so many who wanted to stop the so called “Bush Regime” you could have by voting, its a right we have. for now.
    Its Fanatics Who want to overthrow governments, and once they are overthrown, “What are you going to do?”

    Report this

    By Logan, June 30, 2006 at 12:21 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    Bob,

    I am actually more familiar with the history of the early Church and its Fathers than you suppose.  Please re-read my post carefully: “There is absolutely no credible, incontrovertible evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ OR Christianity prior to the adoption (read: invention) of Christianity by the Roman Emperor Constantine in the early 4th century CE.”

    That is, none of the pre-Constantinian documents (to which you refer) are generally accepted as authentic evidence for Christians and Christianity before the 4th century.  Many of these, including Rome’s supposed persecutions of Christians, are misinterpretations of the original text at best; and/or later and deliberate interpolations (what some call “pious fraud”) at worst.  Take, for instance, the rather obvious interpolation of Jesus into the work of Josephus (to which another poster has referred), or the single reference in the reign of Nero to “followers of Chrestos”, not to followers of Jesus or Christians per se.

    To put it quite bluntly, without Eusebius’s treatise we would have no Church history before the 4th century.  The reason for this is that there wasn’t one; and so Eusebius was tasked with inventing it.

    I could on and on, pointing out all the anomalies in pre-Constantinian Church “history”, but I hardly think TruthDig’s server has the space.

    Report this

    By Casey Western, June 30, 2006 at 6:00 am Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    ...Battle cry is Amazing…it changes lives.
    Even if you don’t agree with it. It’s helping teens through morals that sex and drugs are damaging their lives. Most people who don’t agree with battle cry just want something to complain about or their afraid of change. And no the constitution doesn’t say “God”...but look at your money.

    God Bless

    Casey James.

    Report this

    By poppy, June 13, 2006 at 1:08 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    Very needed information found here, thank you for your work

    Report this

    By Aluminum, June 9, 2006 at 1:17 am Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    OK, I can go on about this forever, but I’ll try not to. I want to try and narrow the whole thing down…
    1. Can we try and stay on topic? I don’t understand why Bush and the war have to pop up in every thread discussing Christianity. Just because the guy claims Christianity, does not mean all are like him or support him.
    2. Why does no one bother to try and get information from people who actually know what the heart of the event/ministry are? This is like the protestors outside the event who had no clue what they were even talking about. People offered them tickets, not to try and indoctrinate, but to offer them a chance for intelligent arguments. There is such a thing as research.

    Here’s what it’s about:
    Teen Mania has been doing this for 7 years, only it took a name change and an appearance in a liberal city to really get people riled up. “Day One” as it was called back then was to be a one-time event, one bigger than anything they had done since Acquire the Fire started in 1991, in hopes to see every state represented in one place. It was scheduled to take place at the Silver Dome in April of 1999. Columbine ended up happening about a week before the event was held, and that changed history for everyone. Teen Mania realized that something had to change. When kids are killing kids, something is wrong. They set out to do something about it.
    The events continued under the new name Stand Up until this year when it was changed to Battlecry. The message is still the same- we need to stand up for what we believe is right and fight (not a fistfight, mind you) to see people’s lives change for the better. I don’t believe they are necessarily blaming the media for anything that’s happening, but let’s just say it doesn’t help. You hear about sex, you want to try it. Its human nature. They will hear about it from their friends, but they probably watch TV a lot more so what grabs more attention from the kids usually gets more attention when such things are discussed.
    Anyway, everyone has their own idea of what “better” is, and perhaps that is part of the problem. I can guarantee you that not everyone in the organization agrees 100% with everything anyone else says. (We are all unique). Take it from someone with first-hand knowledge. I am an alumnus from the Honor Academy program (this is the internship that pretty much runs the whole thing). Teen Mania’s heart isn’t to condemn non-virgins or gay people or anyone else involved in any sort of “sin”. I myself was not a virgin when I got married, and two of my friends from there are gay. Yes, Teen Mania as an organization doesn’t agree with these things, but if they say anything to us about these things its because we signed a commitment saying we wouldn’t do that. They take promises seriously and there’s nothing wrong with that. They only want us to live the best way we know how to.
    As for the rules for interns… most of them only apply to “undergrad” (first year) interns. People who stay longer than that don’t have such restrictions. They simply ask that you set aside one year without any distractions. And come on, we all know relationships can get distracting. As for R-rated films, any “inappropriate” material may get cut out and the movie still watched. I myself watched both The Patriot and Braveheart as an intern- in an auditorium full of about 400 or so other interns! And no, the movie didn’t end up only 20 minutes long! They are strict, but not that much so!
    3. Really, I think it all boils down to the fact that we just want the same rights as anyone else. We’re somewhat in the same battle as homosexuals, but with different issues (I can hear the gasps and cursing now!). We want to be able to believe what we want and freely live our beliefs just as anyone else. I’m sorry if it goes too far. The minority tends to wreck it for the majority. Just as not every Muslim is a terrorist, not every Christian is a go-to-hell-you-suck fanatic.
    I have no problem letting you believe whatever you want. The decision to choose God has to be your choice, and I would never shove it down anyone’s throat. A forced conversion is no true conversion and only sparks up all these problems that fuels feuds like this thread. Still, if you believed someone’s life was in danger, wouldn’t you tell them?
    Yes, Christians often come off as rude and brash. Overzealous. I went to Battlecry with a group of 40 teenagers and adults and I had to constantly calm the kids down in the face of the protests. A lot of them were being disrespected as they tried to have casual conversation with the protestors. (Funny how protestors will speak but not listen) The kids just wanted a chance to be heard as well. They got frustrated and hurt and wanted to respond with the same fire they were being offered.
    This is how things get blown out of proportion. City Hall was supposed to be a prayer gathering, not screaming-match protests. But fire breeds fire and all the hot air getting passed around only fanned the flames.
    4. Nobody bothers to listen to each other, and everyone thinks they are the only one who is right. This is what makes everyone so crazy. I honestly can see how some of you can think what you do, particularly when hearing someone talk “Christianese” when it’s not your language. It is a foreign language and even some Christians and Teen Mania followers get the wrong message a lot of time.  But maybe someday we’ll all stop plugging our ears like a third grader, sticking our tongues out at each other and telling each other “you suck”. Someday we’ll get the message that none of us have all the answers. I’m waiting for that day.

    Report this

    By lizzie, June 8, 2006 at 7:33 am Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    i have a battlecry and have no feelings of hate i love God and i am very upset with the way many adults are acting about this what is wrong with you ,you think that we are blinded look around you most of teens know more about what is going on in the world than you do we can see past the fakes and the liars you think Christianity is fascism what is wrong with you God loves us all! he made us! Why are the Christians being the ones atacked sooo much have you ever noticed that its because we are the children of God and people will always attack us i have now excepted i can not change some of the people that think these bad things about Christians but all that i can do is pray for them and i will pray for all the people on here that have said bad things about HIM. p.s i am 14 years old

    Report this

    By mariah, June 7, 2006 at 12:50 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    it is a battle! a battle for souls that we’re fighting whether you believe it, or refuse to. if you don’t believe…fine, do whatever you want to but, just know that the battle is not for our souls…..it’s for yours. God loves you more than you could ever imagine and we love you too. say whatever you want america but, it’s your loss.

    Report this

    By BlueBerry Pick'n is ThisCanadian.com, June 2, 2006 at 3:27 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    Atwood
    “Handmaiden’s Tale”...
    “Oryx & Crake”...

    what the hell is going on?

    http://thiscanadian.typepad.com/this_canadian/2006/03/im_afraid_of_am.html

    BlueBerry Pick’n
    can be found @
    ThisCanadian.com
    “Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced”

    Report this

    By Thomas Jefferson, June 2, 2006 at 1:35 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    All of you from battlecry who claim you are not inciting hate do not understand what you are doing.  You are inciting hate, you are inciting war, you are inciting bigotry, you are a group dedicated to forcing your views upon others.


    Know the actions of your leaders, you are the mere sheep they use to justify themselves.

    Theofascism shall be terminated.

    Report this

    By purcahsed by the Blood of the Lamb", May 29, 2006 at 1:50 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    Liberal:Tending to give freely;generous.
    So many are the debates of the day,and deep are the ills that divide man from adhering to the call to love God with all heartmindsoulstrenth.Next to love ourneighbors as ourselves.This is a selfless love,the giving freely of oneself.This is where peace and joy stem from.Desire pure milk as children of God.

    Report this

    By cognitorex, May 27, 2006 at 4:25 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    REFULGENT EPICENE RESPONDS TO CHRISTIANISM

    The gorgeous and sexy gay man smiles at Jerry Falwell (on Larry King perhaps?) and says:

    “Darling, Reverend, we honestly appreciate that you Christianists at least allow us to do “what we do” in the privacy of our homes. Likewise in the spirit of of turn-about is fair play, no pun intended, we are just tickled to have you do “what you do” in the sanctity of your churches.

    Report this

    By Two Witnesses, May 25, 2006 at 1:37 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    In this debate we are engaged, in the name of “faith”. Faith itself defines abstraction, since we have yet to see concrete sensory evidence of the “truth” some proclaim (in the name of God or in the name of NO God).

    Abstraction is a concept, idea, thought, notion, construct, theorem, or hypothesis.

    Facts are proven detail, information, conclusions, and “undeniable” evidence.

    These things, however, need not connote opposition, as “truth” may intersect both sets of narratives. Fact based individuals remain skeptical toward abstraction, for which there may not be any ready proof. Faith-based individuals, by definition, employ abstraction in a “what if” search for truth beyond fact.

    Facts haven’t always been facts, before being proven, but people who believed sought proof to verify their assumptions. Once proven undeniably, they are added to a compendium of things to be used to prove further abstractions. It is an endless journey toward ultimate truth.

    Be certain of “facts”, before employing them in further conjecture, or your position is moot. This is not to dissuade the dreamer from abstraction, provided they dream with humility. Faith is essential in this world, because we aren’t privy to the entire truth. The emotional state of one’s heart and mind (“The thoughts of the heart”) are paramount in seeking “God”.

    Without a voice that we can hear uttering words in a language we can understand, God will remain unprovable to the skeptics. Unless something miraculous and mystical happens that everyone can witness, we are forced to rely on faith. This faith we choose is either “God is” or God isn’t”; either way it is faith and abstraction, and without “undeniable” evidence that it will remain.

    My experience is indisputable, but I can’t prove it to you. Your truthful spiritual experiences are also real, but how do you recount them to others without concrete facts?

    Let us just call this philosophy. This “wisdom” didn’t come from texts or “golden tablets”. I can’t claim ownership and I realize the psychiatric implications of claiming “audience” with the supernatural. However, I was led to a “conscious?” reality in which I “heard/saw/felt/smelled/tasted” something so glorious that it was overwhelming. The majesty and joy was and is unparalleled by anything I have ever experienced.

    I am attempting to understand the “vision” I had.

    I know I am not worthy to judge anyone else, but still am commissioned to impart seven thunders to the world. The instruction is to reveal these as words, although their meaning transcends anything words can describe. “Sweet in the mouth, but bitter in the belly” are these truths that may bring human salvation.

    .......................DESIRE….....................

    .......................ACTION….....................

    .......................VIRTUE….....................

    .......................TRUTH…......................

    ___EARTHLY____GODLY______NO_______

     

    Peace and Light,
    Two Witnesses

    Report this

    By Michael Mitteer, May 25, 2006 at 12:24 am Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    William H. Leckie,

    Just felt like informing you that perhaps you should check into the Josephus debate a bit more before making a conclusion insofar as that’s concerned; if you do, you may find that the writing was discovered to come much later and not have the same style.  You may discover that Josephus had already claimed ANOTHER as the Messiah.  That’s all I care to say to this right now.

    Report this

    By Krista, May 24, 2006 at 6:58 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    Those who attended Battle Cry are not out to make war on the world. Haven’t any of you people heard of symbolism. When we say don’t follow the world we mean that we want to go to others and not take part in actions that are trashy. WE dont believe in haveing sex before being married. We don’t hate anyone. We just don’t like sex being stuffed down th throats of our generation. I’m 14 yrs of old and Susan, for the record I do think for myself, and I don’t need Ron Luce to tell me my friends are going to hell. Why can’t we just be accepted as human beings and recognized for wanting what is right. how many of the people that commented here actually went to Battle Cry and if you didn’t how would you know we are filled with hate, malice and contemt for others. How can you say we are so evil? what have we done to you?

    Report this

    By Krista, May 24, 2006 at 6:41 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    Susan, did you even attend the sctual Battle Cry event or are you just another person who thinks they know what we are all about. How come almost anybody can have a rally but it seems that every time a group of strong Christians decide to join together they are ridiculed, call names such as faciast and gay bashers!! I am deeply offended by your lack of understanding. Maybe some people want their husbands to be virgins when thay get married. Maybe some people don’t like to see a girl’s butt hanging out of a skirt. Every one has opinions. Every one has a right to display and express their opinions in any way, shape or form. Next time you begin to trash talk my brothers and sisters in Christ think twice.

    Report this

    By William H. Leckie, Jr., May 24, 2006 at 7:50 am Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    One thing that comes through this thread loud and clear is a startling ignorance of both the Bible and the history of the early Christian church—say what?  The Trinity—literally inconceivable without Greek and debates over the nature of Christ that make sense only in terms of Christological controversies that preceded Nicea (which didn’t settle them at all)—in a Hebrew Genesis with sources in much older Mesopotamian ideas? What, a western (Latin)“father” and laterapostate Tertullian said, does Athens have to do with Jerusalem?  If both religious and secular progressives could learn more about theology and church history (someone wrote no evidence for Jesus?  sorry, pal, I ain’t no saint, but start with Josephus and tantalizing hints in Midrash) it wouldn’t phase the totalitarian wackos and airheads, whose skepticism about disagreement is very, very postmodern, indeed.  But you pound, and pound, and pound away, and ridicule their well-financed adult Pied Pipers.  You keep pounding, you don’t apologize, you tell them they are ignorant and dangerous, and you act as if they are.

    Report this

    By Cavalor Epthith, May 24, 2006 at 5:43 am Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    Good morning. I have been in contact with a source within the Navy Department that states these SEALs were filming a movie on these dates. is there any chance that the Navy was not aware of their activities or involvement with the BattleCry event? Has anyone else taken the steps to verify if these men were actors or ID card holding Naval personnel? If the latter holds true why hasn’t the MSM asked any of the litany of questions that this reporter has begun to ask. Excellent work!

    Cavalor Epthith
    Editor-in-Chief
    The Dis Brimstone-Daily Pitchfork

    Report this

    By M, May 23, 2006 at 7:52 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    Interesting article and comments.
    I just found out about the Battlecry movement through an unrelated website and have been researching it most of the day.
    I am a Christian and I must say that youth “movements” like this leave me feeling a little creepy.  I grew up in the church and have seen movements like these come and go.  I’ve always, somewhere inside, had a problem with them.  Here’s why:
    1) Jesus never called us to a political/cultural battle.  As another poster mentioned, if Jesus wanted to overthrow the Roman empire, he could have.  I know this is a matter of faith, but for any non-christains out there just give me this one, ok?  But, as it turns out, he didn’t.  His “movement” was a revolution of the heart, not of politics or policies.
    2) Movements like this have always struck me as high on propoganda and low an any sort of thought or reason.  The media has been blamed for societies problems for hundreds of years.  I am a parent of 3 kids.  I have the right to turn off my tv at will.  I have the right to restrict my kids from the internet. But, more importantly, I beleive I have a duty not to shelter my kids from society but to teach them the difference between right and wrong and show them how to THINK THROUGH THINGS FOR THEMSELVES!! 
    God never says to turn our brains off at the door.  And, unfortunatly, that’s what I beleive a lot of these youth movements ask people to do.
    3) Last point.  Jesus instructed his disciples to love everyone.  He kept company with a lot of people he disagreed with. He was always loving, and encouraging, and sought the best in people.  Who was he the harshest with?
    The religious leaders of the time.  The Pharisees.  The Saducees and other religous watchdogs of the time.  People who eleveated law over love and care of others. 
    I think some of these movements de-humanize the “groups” (homosexuals, secular media moguls, etc) that they speak against.  This is a dangerous thing for anyone, especially youth, to get into their heads. God doesn’t see people as groups but as individuals.Jesus calls us to love everyone and to see the good in others.  Not to condemn, or blame, or rail against. And not to villify those who disagree with you. It’s not the Christian way.
    It shouldn’t be the Christian way.
    I’m realistic enough to realize that we do not live in a “Christian” society. Nor do I think that God has a special place in His heart for the good ol’ USA. I think that is a very narrow and American way of seeing things.
    God loves everyone, of all nations. 
    Any revolution needs to come from the heart. It needs to come from people seeing the love of Christians for others and that sparking in them the curiosity to pursue what these people may have.  The revolution from within is the only true revolution that will matter. This will never be accomplished by passing laws.  It will only be accomplished by love, and example.
    Thanks for listening to my rather long rant.
    God Bless.

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    By mano_sinistra, May 23, 2006 at 7:44 pm Link to this comment
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    I’ve never masturbated in a closet.  Only somebody brainwashed by conservative retards masquerading in the name of Christ feels shame from giving themselves or others pleasure.  Sexual or otherwise.  It’s all the same really just making people (yourself including) happy and satisfied.

    Jesus tells a very interesting story in Chapter 25 of Matthew: “Then shall the Kingdom of Heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth the meet the bridegroom.  And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.  They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them.” i’ll paraphrase to make it brief: so at midnight the Bridegroom goes to meet them and the virgins who neglected to bring oil asked the others for theirs, who told them to get lost and go buy some for themselves, then Christ says, “And while they went to buy the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.” 

    Now this story is interesting to me for the obvious conotation of the word Marriage, as used by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in the King James Bible.  It is quite clear from the story that the Marriage he speaks of is not the Blessed Matrimony between Man and Woman that the Hypocrites today will have us believe, but is the literal marriage, or union, of physical bodies in the act of fucking.  And fucking several virgins at one time!!! 

    Go read it for yourself and then see how your Sunday School teacher tries to brainwash you into refusing to accept the literal meaning of the Son of Man. 

    People who claim that us on the other side of your crazy ass fence are “IDIOTS” for being frightened of such intense maniacial religious hatred being stirred up amongst impressionable youths seem to be expressing exactly the same kinds of arrogant fascist sentiment that allowed Hitler (and Bush apparently) to take power.  Anybody who follows a “movement,” or is a part of any “school of thought” is absolutely incapable of developing or expressing individual thought.  People get so caught up in the feeling of power of a large group of people believing what they believe, whether it’s true or not, that it literally becomes true except for the most strong willed of people, who are then in most cases Crucified by those in power for disagreeing with them.

    Christ’s whole message and martyrdom at the Cross is to me so obviously attempting to get us to reject this kind of groupthink and for everybody to become individuals and freethinkers.  I would say that the entire development of Christianity after his death is based on political motivations that have nothing whatsoever to do with his teachings and in many cases, actively against them!  But of course this was predicted by He himself:  “For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.” (Matthew 24)

    And by the way,

    Luce = Light

    Lucifer = Bringer of Light

    Just though I’d draw that interesting parallel between two tricksters

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    By Willie V., May 23, 2006 at 12:55 am Link to this comment
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    Battlecry is not what you are making it out to be, it doesn’t incite hate, instead it is trying to excite Youth about swimming against the tides of moral decay in our society.  Any true Jesus believer knows the laws of the Old Testament which served their purpose before Christ should not be held to literally after Jesus died on the cross for your and my sins.  Instead Jesus commands us to love Him (God the Father, Jesus the Son and the Holy Spirit) above all else, and then He commands us to love each other the way he Loved Us, this includes the homosexuals, abortionists, as well as those who have committed adultery, started wars for the wrong reasons, lie cheat and steal. All sinner need Christ, for we all fall short of the glory of God.  One day wether we believe or not, we will all take a knee before the Lord of Lords, Jesus Christ, beware watch you say about Him as you can cement your mind into rejecting Him even when He tried to draw you near Him in love.  So much talk against war, but the war on millions of unborn babies seems overlooked, yet when people comment on the immoral behaviors of sexual deviants, murderers, etc. they seem to have an army ready to defend them.  Battlecry is here to defend those who do not have a voice, and to represent the loudest voice of all, Jesus’ voice!

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    By Bob, May 22, 2006 at 5:53 am Link to this comment
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    Logan, it is a little odd for you to be so harsh.  Especially when you don’t have your facts straight.

    It is as if you haven’t heard of the Christian martyrdoms of the early church, or of the early church fathers, like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irenaeus, or the fact that when the first Ecumenical council was called by Constantine, there were already 10 apostolic sees created by 325.  This means that in 10 different countries churches already existed.  There are roman anti Christian documents that show this - because they were in the process of killing them.  It started after Nero burned down rome and blamed it on the Christian residents. 

    There are many Christians who know that something when horribly wrong with Christianity became a state religion.  Our scripture funtcions much better for a persecuted people - but it has a hard time working for a bunch of priveledged rich white folk.  Sorry that my Christian brother’s and sisters have gotten this so horribly wrong, and used Christs name to justifiy their angry work.

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    By Phronesis, May 20, 2006 at 8:38 pm Link to this comment
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    The ignorance that Christians display about the Bible is incredible to me.  To misconstrue the use in Genesis of the word “elohim” which is the plural of “el” which was the name of God as referring to the Trinity is propaganda of the highest degree.  The poor deluded souls are fodder for our contemporary Goebbels, namely Ron Luce.  The propaganda started at the birth of Christianiy with right wing Christianity’s favorite Gospel of John which made Jesus into a god to be worshipped rather than followed.  The deluded “true believers” responding to this article should be more attentive to the Gospel of Mark where Jesus demands to be followed rather than worshipped, and even his closest followers can’t do what is required.  Remember, even Peter denied knowing Jesus after he was excuted.  It’s easier to worship a graven image of Jesus rather than follow him in instituting the kingdom of God.  Right wing Christians have only a name and an ideology, not a faith.

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    By Logan, May 20, 2006 at 5:52 pm Link to this comment
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    Jesus is a myth.  A _myth_.  There is absolutely no credible, incontrovertible evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ OR Christianity prior to the adoption (read: invention) of Christianity by the Roman Emperor Constantine in the early 4th century CE.  From the 4th century onward Christianity has taken great pains to obscure its true origins, pretending all the while that Jesus was a historical person.  With such a suspect history, how can any reasonable, thinking person swallow any brand of Christian theology and morality whole and not choke on them?
    If you want to know more, you’ll have wait to read my upcoming book.  Think of it like “The Da Vinci Code”—only _true_.

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    By craig, May 20, 2006 at 12:15 am Link to this comment
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    “Comment #9691 by July on 5/17 at 5:51 am

    Does this article and dozens of others like it that appear on the LIBERAL internet everyday not stir up hatred of Chrisitans and Christianity? “

    I just love this quote. Love it.

    the liberal internet. July, there is no “Internet Publishing Corporation.” There is no huge organized effort controlling the internet trying to sway you with it’s evil beliefs.

    Anyone in the world with net access can have a web page. Anyone in the world with net access can comment on web pages like this. Even you, July. Even you.

    The question is, why does this alarm you? You used the word liberal as if it were a bad thing, you labelled the internet liberal as an indictment.

    Since the net is nothing more than people speaking freely, no dogma holdy sway over its entirety, no controlling governmental or corporate force, no censorship, anyone being able to have their say, why do you see this as bad?

    Why do you feel the need for some authority to tell you what you can say, what you can think? Why do you feel the need to be protected from the ideas of others?

    In fact, July, you were right. The internet IS liberal. because liberal is a GOOD thing. Freedom of speech. Freedom of religion (no one dogma being forced upon all) Freedom of assembly, so to speak.

    Nobody controlling what you can say or hear or think. NO FASCISM.

    Why, July, do you and your ilk see this as bad? That’s the important question.

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    By The Black Dragon, May 19, 2006 at 4:13 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    So, Jason, your idea of “love” is to condemn gays, force people to adhere to your moral code, and condemn people to eternal torture?

    I’m reminded again why I’m glad your God is a filthy lie.

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    By The Old World., May 19, 2006 at 3:32 pm Link to this comment
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    When my grandfather heard the rallies at nuremberg, he knew that we would soon be at war with Hitler’s Germany. That someone had to take a stand for freedom, life and liberty.

    My nation fought for four years, losing hundreds of thousands of brave men before the rest of the world woke up to the evil we faced.

    Brave men and women from all nations of the world fought and destroyed the Nazi menace, but at terrible cost. We broke our nation in two. Russia lost millions of her young men fighting against pure evil. America lost thousands. Europe was torn in two, and it took fifty years to heal… but it was worth it. Fascism and the Nazi empire was defeated.

    When I see the Battlecry rally, I see Nuremberg.

    The time is coming when Europe will have to fight for her freedom again, and more - to save the new world. There will be a war to save freedom, life and liberty from the evil fascism of christian fundamentalism.

    I hope with all my heart that it isn’t true, but I know, just as my grandfather did, that good men will have to die once more to preserve freedom from great evil.

    Battlecry, Brownshirts, it’s all the same thing.

    You are the Nazis of the 21sy Century, and millions of good men will die to defeat you. It will be a terrible cost. But don’t think for one second that we will surrender - we will destroy the world in a nuclear fireball before we drop on one knee to your fascist religion.

    Freedom! There can be no greater battlecry!

    I.

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    By C. M. Baxter, May 19, 2006 at 2:03 pm Link to this comment
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    Josh, #9812

    I believe that, in order to be a true evangelical Ripped Head, you must first create a secret compartment inside your already overburdened mind, which bears the following instructions:

    WARNING!  THIS COMPARTMENT CONTAINS DANGEROUS, PREVIOUSLY ACKNOWLEDGED FACTS, WHICH MAY CONTRADICT YOUR CURRENTLY HELD DOGMA.  DO NOT ENTER!

    Could this be the “Pastor Josh” I laughed at earlier?  If so, you’re getting funnier by the day.

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    By Marissa, May 19, 2006 at 1:08 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    What is the matter with you people? You’re going to criticize a bunch of teenagers that actually care about what is happening to this world. You’re right, today, our moral state is deteriorating faster than we could ever imagine, and you are calling these people cultists.
    And your standpoint on abstinence? I quote, “virginity…wil entrap more women in these nightmares.” What about the nightmare of STDs? What about the nightmare of abortion? What about those nightmares that so many people face every day? And you blame these people that promote safety for causing nightmares?
    And by “war”, Ron Luce means a war against the society that says it’s okay to have sex outside of marriage, the society that says it’s okay to flaunt yourself like peice of meat for all the world to see so that you can be loved. That is not love, that is lust, which is what the Battle Cry events are trying to prevent. You say that Christian teens should learn to look around and think for themsleves? Maybe you should take a good look around, so that you can see what a sad state our world is in today.
    You talked about the Bible saying that we should execute gays, stine non-virgins, and keep slaves? First of all, let me talk about the slave part. The Bible says that SERVANTS should be submissive to their masters, not everyone should keep slaves. Why don’t you actually read what your talking about before you misconstrue everything the Bible says. And that part abot stoning people and killing gays? The Bible has those rules because of what happened thousands of years ago in the cities of Isreal when the pople were getting so out of control that such strict rules had to be enforced. Today, Christians should accept gays, even though we believe it is wrong. We won’t be killing anyone nowadays, thank you very much.
    Yes, I am a Christian. Yes, I have attended a Battle Cry event. But I don’t blame you for thinking this way, after society has branded into your mind that Christianity is wrong, and that all Christians are complete lunatics. This is what we are trying to stop, this brainwashing of our minds, tearing away all of our morals, leaving only that thoughts that appear on our TV screens and in the music videos or on the radio.
    Maybe you should take a look around and learn to think for yourselves.
    You call us brainwahsed? Now, we don’t spread ignorance, we are spreading the truth. And even if we do turn the TV off, there are messages of lust, drugs, and violence everywhere we go! Billboards, magazines at the local PathMark, it’s in music. IT’S EVERYWHERE, and you’re telling me to turn off the TV? OPEN YOUR EYES! And I’m sorry if I sound angry, but I am. Why is Christianity always the one that gets constanly slandered? Do you not think that if this article was about Jews, or Muslims, that this article wouldn’t be published? I’m ashamed of this webstie for posting such a biased story, and I will pray for all of you that are so vehemently oposed to what actually makes sense. And I will especially pray for you, Sunsara Taylor. I will pray that you will be made new inside and that you will know what the truth is.
    Thank you, and may GOD BLESS YOU.

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    By Jason, May 19, 2006 at 12:18 am Link to this comment
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    I have read many of the comments posted in this forum. There is one common misconception that a lot of these posts have in common. In Genesis, when God creates man, He clearly states, “Let US create man in OUR image.” Therefore, the Bible is clearly reffering to the Trinity (God, Jesus, Holy Spirit). Also, the point to BattleCry is to SHOW love to the people of the world. Not to hate, offend, condemn, curse or judge. Jesus came to this world and He sat amongst the tax collectors, priests and other “sinners.” When approached about this, He clearly replies, “It is not the well that need a doctor, but the sick.” Our goal is to reach out to the youth of our generation and get the truth spread before it is too late. So please don’t think this is a personal attack on anyone persons or beliefs. This is an attack on the morality of our world and how out of hand is has gotten. Thank you.

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    By richard wagner, May 18, 2006 at 11:35 pm Link to this comment
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    Let’s get real people…1. Battle Cry and Teen Mania are no different than a Benny Hill gathering where everyone falls to the ground in a blissful rapture upon the suggestion of the annointed preacher.  It is mass hypnosis based on a predeliction to Religious addiction.  A psychotic state, cured only by rational thought. 2.  You Christian funamentalists are fond of asking “What would Jesus Do?”  Would Jesus bomb the Iraqi peolpe?  Would Jesus condemn your gay brother or sister or best friend?  Would Jesus accept the persecution of the poor and unfortunate among you, whether they are citizens or not? There are many questions yet to ask in your young lives and Battlecry and Teen Mania are asking none of them.  Turn inward to your God and ask for strength to find the truth of human tolerance and love in place of the shameless indoctrination you are receieving at the hands of your so called spiritual leaders. God Bless you and may you find true peace.

    A Seeker of 63 years

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    By SLD, May 18, 2006 at 3:42 pm Link to this comment
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    ????  What the heck are U.S. Navy SEALS doing at an event like this?  That is absolutely verboten according to UCMJ and many, many military regulations.

    I don’t think that they are real Navy SEALS.  A real Navy SEAL wouldn’t do something that stupid.

    That means that they are impersonating a Navy Officer - which is a federal offense.  Someone should contact the Philadelphia U.S. Attorney.

    SLD

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    By Josh Gardener, May 18, 2006 at 12:14 pm Link to this comment
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    Response to Gloria:
    “Prayer & Bible studies in public schools are illegal” NO THEY ARE NOT!
    Yet another illustration of the seriousness and enormity of the problem we face: Americans ignorant of what the Constitution says. The Constitution is very clear on this point and even the Supreme Court gets this one right. Bill Clinton even said in a speech that Bible reading, Bible studies and prayer in Public Schools are protected by the Constitution. If you begin your argument by stating lies as truth we at least now know one thing about you for certain. You cannot be trustred: You are dishonest. It is illogical to attempt to have a discussion with a liar.
    2nd point:
    What kind of philosophy must a person have to believe that it could ever be legitimate to outlaw reading a book or prayer? If this is not the very essence of human rights violations I do not know what a human right violation is. I know our current Administration and its ilk do not.
    3rd point:
    When I find it difficult to discern who is on the correct side of an issue and the arguments seem too complicated I look instead to see who is lying to me and who is spewing hatred. To date I have found the hate spewing liars are the ones on the wrong side of the issue. This is similar to the follow the money method of figuring out what curtain the Wizard is behind and it works every time without fail.
    In closing: “These aren’t the droids you’re looking for. You don’t need to see his identification. He can go about his business. Move along.”

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    By Lena, May 18, 2006 at 2:35 am Link to this comment
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    The majority of my education took place in a Christian school of a somewhat evangelical nature throughout the 80s—in Dallas. I am rather familiar with the various pleas and updated revival calls and other assorted group behaviors frequently exhibited. However, I have never seen nor heard of anything quite like this. It doesn’t suprise me that non Christians find it disturbing—Christians themselves should find this disturbing! It’s one thing to make a call out to individuals and society in general—if groups feel their idea of what’s righteous is to be heard—that they desire to save people from what the group believes to be wrong, etc. It’s a plea, of sorts—one left up to the listener to either reject or accept, critique and so on. But what exactly is going on at these…demonstrations? There’s the familiar call to be saved from various sins and accept Christ—with a bizarre arrangement of military men in uniforms and automatic weapons. What exactly is the message? Thousands are attending these? BattleCry? Teen MANIA?

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    By Robert, May 17, 2006 at 2:04 pm Link to this comment
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    Saying that these acts are that of neo nazi is one of the most stupid things Ive ever heard.  Hitler didnt against the government.  He used the governments weakness’ to try and tell the people they deserved better. Hitler and Ron Luce can never be compared because they are totally different.  Hitler decieved the people of Germany with a lie.  Telling them they should have a better government than what they had that their government couldnt protect them and wouldnt help them.  He also lied blaming the Jewish race for the economic decline of the German population.  Ron Luce presents a truth that for so long has been lost.  You can say how do we know that the Bible is the truth, simply like this Jesus the WAY , the TRUTH and the LIFE.  So you take that and see that Ron Luce presents THE TRUTH while Hitler was nothing but a deceptive man who fell to the Nazi regime.  That would be like comparing him to Jesus because Jesus did the same thing he as well as the people following Him who would come against the government and its pegaen ways. So comparing this movement to the neo nazi regime is assinine and completely farfetched. so everyone bashing this Youth movement can be summed up in one simple everyday word, IDIOTS.  so now you have my opinion if you came against the movement youre stupid because the reason you came against the movement is that you cant think for yourself you just listen to what the world says and say and do what the world tells you to say.

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    By God's Love Announced, May 17, 2006 at 1:27 pm Link to this comment
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    If you go down about 15 comments, you will see one posted by a “C. M. Baxter”, in which he has a problem with another commenter “Warrior” and calls him unknowing. He points out that Jesus wasn’t around when God created the Earth, but mind you, he apparently is in order for some laerning himself, as he obviously ahs not heard of the Trinity. Probably one of the hardest things to understand, the Trinity is in which God, Jesus, and The Holy Spirit are one. God is Jesus, Jesus is God, Jesus is Soly Spirit, Holy Spirit is Jesus, God is Holy Spirit, Holy Spirit is God. No rock-paper-scissors mechanism; all three are equal. So no, persay, one might say Jesus was not around when God created the world, but Jesus is God. Also, God had Jesus planned out long before he was born, just as God has each and every one of you planned out.

    I do, on the other hand, accredit C. M. Baxter as he has read a Bible before protesting Christian rights, and he has probably read it more than me. If anyone would like to combat Christians it is best to have read a Bible before, so you do not sound like an ignorant jerk-off, even though, they will still show you the same love and care no matter how angrily or stupidly you attack them.


    Many other protesters also incriminate the Battle Cry leader, Ron Luce, in the way he has announced waging war, and battle on our generation. He is not instructing us to wage war on the PEOPLE of our generation, but by the LIES produced. He has further instructed us, when met by protesters (which I quote) to remain kind to them, and show them love, no matter how they present themselves toward you.
    We are also often said to be brainwashed by our religion, and not to have opinions. Many, I agree, do not have opinions or objections to what is presented, yet most do. I personally am not one to sit by and absorb whatever is said to me. I hear what is said and choose my side. I can hear facts, and research those that sound untrue. I also do not trust everything told to me. I, as many others do, have questioned my religion/faith; whether it is all just a waste, yet can feel it’s not. The feeling of Jesus is not describable. It is the most wonderful feeling in the world, far better than anything recieved through premarital sex, or masturbating in a closet.

    Also, those that say God would have made our arms shorter had he intended us not to masturbate… I say to you this: God gave us will power. From day one, it has been awarded. God placed the forbidden tree there for Adam and Eve. My point, the same thing occurs. No masturbation, shorter arms. Well then, why didn’t he make their arms shorter so they couldn’t reach the fruit, or put the fruit higher, or just remove the tree. My answer to you, will power. If he removes will power, their is not point to religion or better yet, faith. It’s there, it isn’t a trust, there’s is nothing better to trust.

    We Christians are not here to attack and dishonor those who have denied Him, rather to help them, just as Jesus came to save us. Everyone, including the most devout Christians, have sinned. The difference, we admit our Lord and Savior and ask for forgiveness. Furthermore than asking, we then repent, and no longer commit the sin we have been forgiven for.

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    By jim, May 17, 2006 at 12:41 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    there is no god.  plain and simple.  no god.

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    By Joe Blow, May 17, 2006 at 12:03 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    Ummmm.
    I just don’t get positive Christian vibes from the photos of this rally. It reminded me of Triumph of the Will. This is spiritual misdirection of highest order. The leaders of BattleCry have a lot to answer for.
    Also isn’t Battle Cry some sort of Pro Confederate States of America reference?
    Yuck.

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    By Alex, May 17, 2006 at 11:18 am Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    Sad.. Some people think they know the bible, they seem to be good at twisting things around, misqouting words. it seems to me your the deceiver. Read the Bible open your mind, pray ask God to be real to you.

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    By Jeri Hurd, May 17, 2006 at 8:00 am Link to this comment
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    OH, come on Truth Dig.  I expect more out of you than this piece of inflammatory, ill-thought out “journalism.”  Bob Scheer, you should be ashamed.  This issue is too important to be handled in such a blatantly biased manner.

    I’m also appalled at the level of discourse in the responses.  Everyone has a right to free speech, Christian or non, everyone has a right try to influence policy towards their beliefs. And while I despair at the current trends in the government, and laugh whenever conservative Christians try to claim they’re under attack, when the opposite is so obviously true, I do recognize that not all Christians are neo-fascists, and they do have a right to express their opinions.  They don’t have a right to limit mine, which, unfortunately, is often what happens.

    If TV offends you, turn it off.  If you don’t believe in pre-marital sex, don’t engage in it.  But respect my right to disagree, since it doesn’t affect you.

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    By Questioner, May 17, 2006 at 6:53 am Link to this comment
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    I am about humane and decent behavior. Violent behavior in the name of religion is simply violence rationalized, and one of the oldest ploys there is. To cry “God wills it!” and then commit violence in the name of “God” is to commit the worst sin of all.

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    By July, May 17, 2006 at 5:51 am Link to this comment
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    Does this article and dozens of others like it that appear on the LIBERAL internet everyday not stir up hatred of Chrisitans and Christianity?

    If this were written about Jews would the writer not be accused of bigotry and anti-semitism and be CENSORED?

    I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it.  If you’re not white or Christian.

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    By L. Carter, May 17, 2006 at 5:44 am Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    After reading this piece, I have two words for you:

    Joseph Goebbels.

    This is how National Socialism (i.e. Nazi) proponents got their foothold in German in the ‘30s, and Goebbels, like many of the people working with groups like these, are masters at propaganda dissemination.  Do they encourage young people to question and get the facts?  No, because if they did, these same young people might actually form their own opinions - opinions that just might be contrary to the agenda these “Christians” are trying so hard (and, unfortunately, succeeding) to advocate.

    Hitler got it right:  he said (paraphrasing) that if the adults didn’t come along with him and become Nazis, it was alright because .... he had their children.

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    By Brick Sykes, May 17, 2006 at 5:14 am Link to this comment
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    I just happened by and noticed the fervent discussion. Wow! I had no idea the nature of the dialogue had reached this depth of meanness and anger. My first thought was to say, “Hey, guys, break it up! It’s just Life! Nobody is going to get out of it alive so why are we at each other’s throats so?”

    On further thought I decided it would be best to leave with a little food for thought for those of you who will take up the challenge. Go to the library and check out a 1995 book entitled: “THY WILL BE DONE” by Gerard Colby and Charlotte Dennett. It is very much tied into the practice of Christianity in this very century and many of you will become enlightened in ways that will give you pause.

    In the meantime, please try to be nicer to each other and don’t be too quick to condemn. Democracy is not perfect but it does allow us to lead full lives with most of our beliefs intact. Nothing but ill behaviour will arise from trying to be your brother’s keeper, i.e., Live and Let Live, Please!

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    By pc, May 17, 2006 at 5:08 am Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    To Robert Scheer… while I agree with most of your politics… I don’t think that publishing a piece as poorly wriiten or thought out as this one, really helps in any way… let’s try to raise the level of discourse, to everyone’s advantage…

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    By Gloria, May 17, 2006 at 5:06 am Link to this comment
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    One more time. The United States of America is not a Christian country. Many of the founding fathers were very devout Christians who wrote The Constitution with freedom of religion in mind. The document says you can practice it, if you want to. It does not say a religion can write laws.
    Community Faith Based Initiatives are illegal. Holding religious youth rallies in city halls are illegal. Prayer & Bible studies in public schools are illegal.
    Faith is long suffering. Pushing your personal religious beliefs in the community, city hall, schools without regard to the law is not an example of longsuffering.
    I suggest these young people hold concerts they pay for in proper venues if they want to evangelize. Billy Graham always payed his own bills. I think, at least I hope, no one hates Billy.

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    By Dr. Susan Block, May 17, 2006 at 3:48 am Link to this comment
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    These Teen Mania Teens are just big hypocrites, just like their elders.  They lust after the adrenaline rush of “battle,” but they let their less fortunate brothers and sisters die in Iraq, while they get high on bad rock n roll, pretending to be “soldiers” in stadiums.

    Then they go masturbate in a closet somewhere, as they loudly, obnoxiously condemn this simple safe sex practice.  Speaking of which: Happy Masturbation Month (May is National Masturbation Month):

    http://www.drsusanblock.com/blog/article116.html

    Hey Battle Criers:  Dontcha know if God had intended us not to masturbate, he would have made our arms shorter?

    You think your anti-sex stance is really sexy, don’t you? 

    Take a look at the old hypocrites involved in “Hookergate” to see where you Battle Crying Teen Maniacs are headed: 

    http://www.drsusanblock.com/blog/article121.html

    Keep the faith, Sansara.  Keep faith in yourself, in the truth, in science, in humanism.  You’re a tough, smart, sexy young lady.  You can battle these young loser hypocrites with your wits, your words and your beauty.  And you will win.

    http://www.drsusanblock.com/editorial/terror/terror21.htm

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    By Lover of Christ, May 16, 2006 at 9:24 pm Link to this comment
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    You guys are crazy! God loves you and you should know it.


    Love them like Jesus.

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    By Joe, May 16, 2006 at 9:16 pm Link to this comment
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    It would be interesting if, by hypothesis, all this oh-so-pious and oh-so-righteous young religious fanatics could see how they would be if they were born in, say, Tibet, or China, or India instead of the United States of America.

    They would be NOT Christians, but Induists, Buddhists or Sikh etc., not necessarily equally fanatic, likely less fanatic, but surely different.

    So much for the (presumed) one and only truth attributed to one of the dozens of human-written religious books in the world, legacy of an ancient past of utter ignorance on the world.

    It is sad that young people can be so easily indoctrinated, so unwittingly instruments of the power of the past and of current military-economica-political interests, so myopic, so uncapable of posing questions, so lacking critical capacity, so incapable of learning about the rest of the world and so utterly ignorant and dull.

    A recent survey amongst young Americans aged 18 to 24 made by the National Geographic (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/05/0502_060502_geography.html) gave the following results:

    - 30% think the population of the USA is between 1 and 2 billion (as opposed to under 300 million)

    - 74% said that English is the most commonly spoken native language in the world (as opposed to Mandarin chinese)

    - 63% had no clue on where Iraq is (despite the war)

    - One third could not find Louisiana on the map (despite Katrina).

    Also, the National Geographic article reports: “Fewer than three in ten think it’s absolutely necessary to know where countries in the news are located. Only 14 percent believe speaking another language fluently is a necessary skill.”

    Given the results of the survey is itg really so surprising that there are so many people who fall in the traps of religious fundamentalism?

    What do you expect when a situation of utter ignorance is present in American society and schooling system (except in expensive schools for the rich who will always exploit ignorance)?

    What do you expect when people are dullified by TV, movies, Coke, McDonalds and Evangelical churches, to the extent that they believe more in the Virgin-Mary-assumed-in-the-sky than a science book?

    I really think the “Power” is not interested in creating people who think. They are interested in having people who have some skills for the productive world, and to have a job, to then become faithful buyers and consumers, but surely not people who think, question, and raise doubts.

    The political-military-religious ensemble is interested in maintaining a system where people will gulp down any lie they grow into or that is told on TV by a politicians with phony grimaces of piety. Gullible drones are, for the “power” and its concealed ends, the best voters and the best customers.

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    By hisambassadors, May 16, 2006 at 6:40 pm Link to this comment
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    I hope I am not too late for getting in on this conversation, but I feel I have a point that must be heard. For all the anti-battlecry
    disputants. The battle that we are eager to engage in will not and should not harm you. Our weapons of warfare are love, prayer, kindness and the new covenant of God that forgives you for all your mistakes and forgives you of all mistakes you will ever make. We the Battlecry supporters have found the love of God and it is so awesome that it is painful not to share it with other. It would be so much easier to keep it to ourselves. Please reject any anger that you may feel about this and be thankful that their is a group of people who see the value of you and love you.

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    By Austin, May 16, 2006 at 6:37 pm Link to this comment
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    I feel sorry for the way that many feel about what battle cry supports, but it is not an evil thing. I do not support Bush either, and have voted to have him impeached (influenced by my favorite band Anti-Flag); but the problem is: the Bush regime is corrupt and waging a horrible pointless war, but the Bush regime will go away. It can last, at most, 8 years, all of which are almost up. The horrors of our generation are spreading and the truth is being denied right here.
    Attendees to battle cry are not wanting to enslave people, kill people, or persecute homosexuals. (Homosexuals first of all are not trying to be peresecuted; God does not make a man or woman born gay, they think they are and are confused, as believed by Christians. We simply would like to help them, and the rest of the unsaved world.) What we all want to do and were instructed (not forced) to do while we were at battle cry was to save our generation. We are being asked, but given our will to choose, to help the 96% of people who do not follow Jesus Christ’s way. Also, the reason that men are watched while on the internet is becasue it is hard for every man to avoid temptation to watch porn as it is so easily accessable. Men, and women, are supposed to want to watch porn, ask sex is a gift from God, yet such a good gift that it is supposed to be saved for marriage (masturbation included).
    Furthermore, the issues of stoning people were from the very old times, when more extrmeme measures were taken also when animals were killed as sacrifices for God, Jesus came, and ended the need for sacrifices.
    I apologize if I offended anyone. God bless.

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    By C. M. Baxter, May 16, 2006 at 11:47 am Link to this comment
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    Warrior,

    It’s difficult to respond to a comment that is largely unintelligible.  Maybe a brief bible class is in order.  If only one way can be true, it certainly is not true that Jesus created the universe.  That was God, remember?  Also, that’s not Jesus talking in the Old Testament, that’s God!  Jesus wasn’t around at that time.  Jeremiah, 29:11 is indeed a benign statement from God, but drop on down a few verses to 29:17-19 to see how tolerant He is to those who don’t listen to the prophets He sends among them, then get back to me.  If your war is to be fought with spiritual knowledge rather than physical violence, you are way short on ammo.  Sheesus!

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    By Josh Gardener, May 16, 2006 at 10:06 am Link to this comment
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    It amazes me that anyone calling themself a Christian could support this immoral and illegal war. I am one of those really weird and marginalized Christians who believe the Bible is the inerrant word of the one and only Living God. In it James explains (from God’s mouth to our ears if we will only listen wink that ALL wars are waged because some one has something some one else wants. By such a standard it is clear that anyone trying to promote any war whatsoever is sinning against God. This is much like the infamous murders who said God told them to Kill those people. God does not command his servants to commit murder (No matter what Pat Robertson says). It is only willful ignorance (also a sin in the eyes of God) which causes a “Christian” to see how wicked and evil Bill Clinton is and was as President but to fail to see that the warmonger Bush is doing the Devil’s work on this planet. Let’s do a quick inventory of recent sins of GWB:
    He Lied to the Congress and People of the US when he said Iraq had weapons of mass destruction with which Sadam could strike the US.
    He Lied when he said Sadam had attempted to purchase uranium from Niger. That lie was backed up using a crude forgery of a Nigerian Govt document. When Joe Wilson exposed the forgery as a forgery his wife was outed as a CIA agent (a federal crime and an irresponsible act which endagered all of us and helped the terrorists.) This is not faulty inteligence. You do not use forgery to back up the truth. The purpose of forged documents is to lend legitimacy to lies.
    He Lied when he said that Sadam or Iraq had any connection to AlQeda. The FBI website clearly states no connection found between Sadam or Iraq and AlQeda or the attacks of 9/11.
    He lied when he said that Sadam had helped Osam Bin Laden. The exact opposite was the case: He was an enemy of Osama. Iraq was almost certainly the one country on earth with the fewest (if any) Al Qeda cells.
    How many murders does a man have to commit before we can call him a murderer? How many lies before we can call him a liar?? Christians of America, wake up! God has warned us that Satan will masquerade as a messenger (that is what the word “angel” actually means) of light. He told us that so we would be on the lookout: He does not want us to be fooled. The very best work the Devil ever does is when He is disguised as one of us because we are so gullible we don’t do our homework: If some one says they are a Christian we simply believe it and stop scrutinizing them as we should.
    There is a passage in Scripture where God calls the residents of a certain city, “more noble” than others because they “searched the Scriptures to see if the things Paul said were true”. They did not simply take Paul at his word but they did some rersearch. Research Bush. Look at the history of the Bush family. Why did Prescott Bush have 23 companies seized by the US Govt under the Trading With the Enemy Act during WWII???
    Examine this pattern: Bush (or any other rich traitor) finances a little-known radical leader far away somewhere. (Bin Laden, The Taliban were given tens of millions by US Govt) Leader now strong enough to “try something” and does. What a racket! First we arm them to the teeth. The we declare they are a danger to the security and stability of the USA and declare war or engage in a “police action”.
    One more little thing “Christians” in the US may wish to consider: Bush and many high ranking officials in our Govt gather once a year in Calif in the forest where they cary out a “mock” (who ever is in that burlap sack sure does scream as though they are dying, however) human sacrifice to a giant idol of an owl. (an unclean bird is the icon of this man’s true religion.) Is that okay with you? “Mock” human sacrifice??! Why would anyone want to PRETEND to murder a fellow human being on behalf of an ancient god? Am I the only American who is uncomfortable with the fact that many of the leaders of this nation worship before a stone owl? I think not. And why, pray tell, does all of the Corporate Media find this yearly event of so little interest. Don’t they know we live for this kind of news? Henry Kissinger and Bill Clinton are bowing down in front of a giant statue of a bird and “PRETENDING” (They’re just pretending, folks. Nothing to be concerned about here. Just a bunch of frat boys partying down. Move along.) again, PRETENDING to murder another human being because the stone owl wants them to. If this does not bother you, roll over and go back to sleep. In the Bible we find God telling his people again and again that they need to wake up. Today, we can see why.
    With all of my heart I wish that people (especially my own family, Christians) could be made to see. God never intended for us to live like this but because He is unwilling to strip us of our free will He can only advise and to this point in time we have consistently rejected each and every one of His recommendations. I would like to suggest that we try one of them for a change. A real change. But that will not happen. Satan and his minions can continue to depend upon the Church of Jesus, the Christ, to do his dirty work. What a scam! All we would need to do to win is to believe God. That’s it. No more complicated than that. The Bible is quite clear on this point: It states we suffer as we do because we continue to believe and practice a lie. Actually many lies.
    The Bible states that the path of the Righteous is ever upward. Do we seem to be going upward to you? Or is that whale excrement I see? Are we progressing or are we going around in circles? If the Bible is true then there can only be one conclusion: Americans have rejected the counsel of the Almighty and are being led by small men with big heads. Stop lying to yourself; if we were obedient God promises an upward journey. If our journey is in the other direction it can only mean that the Bible is not true or we are not obeying God. There is no alrernative.
    There is still hope, although not much: To send this cadre of criminals where they belong we need only bend the knee to Christ. He promises to do the rest. We won’t, though, will we? We are too proud to bend the knee. We would rather be ruled over by petty dictators than by the Prince of Peace and so we shall.

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    By mutterhals, May 16, 2006 at 9:25 am Link to this comment
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    “we are fighting Satan and his demons for not only our souls but for yours as well”

    I’m sorry if this comment is vitriolic but I cannot stand anymore. To the people who relate to the above comment I implore you to leave me the eff alone. I don’t believe in the devil and demons, I don’t share your faith in the intangible, and I don’t assume that everyone else in the world shares my beliefs, as you obviously do. I don’t care what you do, but you will leave me and others like me alone.

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    By Steve A., May 16, 2006 at 8:31 am Link to this comment
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    To the people posting here, denying that these rallies encourage people to kill, to stone, to hate:

    They’re asking people to follow the Bible, /literally/ and /unthinkingly/. That /includes/ the old Testament. That /includes/ the killing, the stoning, the hating. They’re promoting hatred of people because of the way they’re born. They’ve got Navy SEALS firing rounds (of blanks) on stage.

    They’re hand-in-hand with the people who run the Discovery Institute, which is devoted to lying about science and biology in particular and to use the ‘wedge strategy’ to force their religion on captive audiences - that’s Howard Ahmanson who funds and sits as chairperson, who has publicly backed groups that outright call for theocracy in the U.S., stoning, killing, hating.

    They’re hand-in-hand with the people who pushed for and wrongfully set up Diebold electronic voting machines (which have recently been shown to be completely hackable) as standards around the country.

    They’re hand-in-hand with the Council for National Policy and Project for the New American Century (PNAC). BOTH of those groups have sitting many high-profile ultra-conservatives, among them Oliver North, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and chiefs of staffs and secretaries of education.

    Read the Wedge Strategy! They have nothing less than complete and total dominion over the earth by any means - lying, cheating, bribing, killing, war - as their goal.

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    By reinhart, May 16, 2006 at 7:05 am Link to this comment
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    Battlecry is as more a product of American Culture than conservative Christianity.

    I’ve been living in the US for 5 yrs and am surprised at how much Americans love war. When you can’t find an Iraq, Panama, Grenada, etc. to go beat up on, you declare war on yourselves with a “war on drugs”, “war on poverty”, “war on literacy” (which, judging by the spelling on most posts, has been lost). War is somehow a critical part of the American identity. Even your president is constantly running around trying to convince everyone he’s a war president. Battlecry simply takes the American obsession with war and applies it to evangelical Christianity.

    Don’t blame Battlecry on Christianity. I come from a strong conservative, evangelical community in Canada and everybody I know there thinks Battlecry and American conservative Christianity is just weird.

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    By Rebekah Redmond, May 15, 2006 at 9:57 pm Link to this comment
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    As a Christian, and young woman, and a supporter of Ron Luce and his Teen Mania rallies, I must say some of these comments were very disturbing for me. It is not my intent to say anything bad about anyone else who commented.  I want to comment on the idea of the Christian War and the so called “frightening world of an Christian evangelical youth movement”.  First, “our struggle is not against flesh and blood” from Ephesians 6:12.  Meaning we are not waging a war on the people of this world.  We are NOT against you.  This is a spiritual warfare, we are fighting Satan and his demons for not only our souls but for yours as well.  We, the young people of America, are standing against all the years of garbage that previous generations have let slide by in order for our future children to live lives where pornography doesn’t fill the streets.  All we are doing is spreading God’s love and sharing it with everyone.  Not once have we turned on you and called you names and ran your faith and ways of life into the ground, yet all I see from you is name calling and just trying to destroy the Christian way of life.
    We are not here to fight with you.
    We are here to show you God’s love.
    We are here and we are staying.
    We will not run from this spritual warfare.

    It honestly broke my heart to read the comment from bill (#9148)  From this day forth Bill I am going to pray for you (and everyone that commented on this)  I pray that God would open your eyes and reveal His truth to you in such a way that you can no longer deny Him.  I ask God to move in your hearts and to soften them to His word.  I pray that He would put someone in your lives to show you His love.  I just ask that you listen, because when God speaks you will know.

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    By Jack Johnson, May 15, 2006 at 6:02 pm Link to this comment
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    Not everything Sunsara Taylor is accurate to what happened at battle cry. For one it’s an outreach program and anyone can attend. Also, Sunsara Taylor does not believe in democracy according to her blog she is a communist. And battle cry does not encourage Fascism the strongest points were made against brainwashing.  BattleCry does not support a theocracy the true purpose is to three teenagers from the brainwashing of constant violence on television and other forms of communication because as I said it is a form of control.  Most of the brainwashing used for people to buy certain goods and premarital sex, drugs, murder, and other material is a normal part of culture.  Teens today are getting mixed messages because of people telling them that it isn’t a part of culture.  This is a theory on why teen suicide rates are increasing dramatically, depression is increasing, eating disorders are common, and self the relation is running rampant.  Don’t believe everything you hear, find out what makes the most sense to you.

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    By lukegelinas, May 15, 2006 at 5:56 pm Link to this comment
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    “This is war. And Jesus invites us to get into the action, telling us that the violent—the ‘forceful’ ones—will lay hold of the kingdom.”

    As someone who affirms the beliefs and traditions of historic Christianity, it is very sad and even more perplexing to witness such twisted and misguided expressions of what it means to be a follower Jesus of Nazareth. This is just bad theology—absolutely backwards, in fact: Jesus’ whole message was one of peaceful, non-violent resistance. Given the opportunity to declare himself a political Messiah and initiate a military, guerrilla revolution among the displaced Jews of 1st-century Palestine, Christ resisted. Instead, he opted for a message of non-violent resistance that transcended political affiliation; reached out to the dregs of society in sympathy and love; and ushered in a new way of being in the world. This new way is not one that identifies itself along political party lines. Followers of Christ should not—and must not, if they are to retain their core identity—cast their lot with any political party! This is the upshot of Christ’s instruction to ‘render to Caesar what is Caesar’s.’ Rather, Christians should be ready and willing to critique any political entity that promotes injustice, degradation, and hatred. In my humble opinion, that political entity at present is none other than the Bush administration.

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    By HE IS >THEN I, May 15, 2006 at 12:55 pm Link to this comment
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    For those of you that are against what CHRISTIANS believe…We CHRISTIANS will be praying for your salvation that you may not be so blind to see the truth.I CHALLENGE you instead of judgeing us you COME to one of our events and be open and not ignorant to hear what GOD has to say to you!

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    By NOTHEREFORTHEFOOD, May 15, 2006 at 10:10 am Link to this comment
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    Has anyone noticed how illiterate everyone is who writes in to support this group?

    Doesn’t that just explain it all?

    There is NOTHING as frightening as ignorance in action and that’s what we’re witnessing here.

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    By Warrior for Christ, May 15, 2006 at 10:08 am Link to this comment
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    Mr. Baxter, I don’t know who said anything about tolerance. There is no other way. There is only one North. Only one way can be true. Jesus is the creator of the universe. His entire message is about love and kindness. He even said that if someone slaps you on the cheek to turn the other cheek. That doesn’t sound like he’s mad at anyone. He is all about forgiveness. He loves you. That’s why he wants you to obey him. He has a plan to prosper you, not to harm you. Jer 29:11. It’s not something for you to be angry about.

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    By Follower of Christ, May 14, 2006 at 8:12 pm Link to this comment
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    The poeple who protested the media around the nation on May 12th wanted to say they wre sick of seeing sex and drugs and SIN, glamorized on TV.

    +++++++++++++

    So, you’ve forgotten how to TURN THE TV OFF ?!?!?!

    Puh-thet-ic ....

    —————
    No I havn’t.  I don’t generally whcih more that an hour of TV a day.  But it’s not just TV its on billbaords, and on the radio and in our schools, its all over. and I am Sick of it.

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    By Jack Johnson, May 14, 2006 at 5:21 pm Link to this comment
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    It is a form of control that some companies made to tag us ex: (Nike). People have been labeled and desensitize teens to sex and other material. This is not a good thing and causes confusion and the teen suicide rate had gone up. Explain what could have caused this rate to have gone up.

    Please this is what maters.

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    By C. M. Baxter, May 14, 2006 at 4:25 pm Link to this comment
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    Just had to post this.

    Parallel to the training of the body a struggle against the poisoning of the soul must begin. Our whole public life today is like a hothouse for sexual ideas and simulations. Just look at the bill of fare served up in our movies, vaudeville and theaters, and you will hardly be able to deny that this is not the right kind of food, particularly for the youth…Theater, art, literature, cinema, press, posters, and window displays must be cleansed of all manifestations of our rotting world and placed in the service of a moral, political, and cultural idea. [Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 10.]

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    By Jack Johnson, May 14, 2006 at 3:38 pm Link to this comment
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    The people at the Battle Cry disproved of sex, drugs, violence, ect. Do you think we should have this garbage on TV, music, and other types of communication? I think that women are being hurt the most because of the ways this is showing them. Many of my female friends are vary intelligent one of them only got 1 point off on the SATs. If women are portrayed like this they will become discourage and society will have a loss of grate people like my friend.

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    By PamAlonia McCrary, May 14, 2006 at 1:11 pm Link to this comment
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    As I argue of my blog,

    Were it not for this believer-blindness, we wouldn’t be, and this is important, where we are now–pariahs of the modern moral world that exists outside our narcissistic national reference.

    If anybody out there in the political sphere is paying attention, it matters–this Bible, and its culture and its impact on our way of looking at the world. You pundits of the blogsphere talk, talk, talk about this greed, that lie, the big deception, the assault on freedom, and so on–what goes on in Washington as if it sprouted of itself and can be treated like a localized infection. All corruption, you liberal bloggers–if you’re listening, boils down to how America has bought that the bad god is good.

    Now when are you all going to start talking about the disease rather than the symptoms?

    http://www.godisajoke.com/2006/05/13/churchstate/the-agenda-believer-blindness-feeds-washingtons-scandals/

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    By C. M. Baxter, May 14, 2006 at 10:41 am Link to this comment
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    Before sending his twelve Apostles out in pairs to proselytize in his name, Jesus tells them:  “And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them.  Verily I say unto you, it shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that city.”
    ( Mark 6:11)

    Later, Jesus addresses the Jews:  “And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.  For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death.”  [It seems that Jesus is pissed because the Jews wont kill children who sass their parents]
    (Mark 7:9-10)

    Is this the same gentle, kind, wouldn’t hurt a fly Jesus you folks are asking us to accept as our Lord and Savior?  Is this your idea of tolerance?

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    By GrownAdult, May 14, 2006 at 8:07 am Link to this comment
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    I posted to the BattleCry website last night.  I figure I was one of the last, prior to the forum being taken off line.  As you can’t read it there, I thought I would post it here, although it makes more sense in context on their site.

    ——————-

    Came to read your comments after hitting the Truthdig article.

    You should know that there are a lot of people in the world that are very scared right now about what your President is doing.  The term “World War III” is already being bandied about - not as imminent; but as already here.

    Psygirl wrote “Wait a few years” for Bush to go… why?  When he has been shown to be a liar and a criminal - just read the blogs, not the corporate media, to find out the truth.  Blindly waiting a few years to see him replaced will simply see another like him ensconced by a fawning media.

    You are living in a totalitarian state and you can’t even see it.  Our beautiful religion (it is as much mine as it is yours) is being used against you to control you, to help a misguided (I’m being charitable) leader take the whole world into the maw of a nuclear holocaust.

    Islam - scares me.  It should scare anyone in its present form as represented by Iran’s mullahs.  But you lot scare me more, because you have the tools around you to educate yourselves and help pull us all out of this morass.  You are all mushrooms, being fed by Fox News, Entertainment Tonight and USA Today.  Growing up to be the next generation of ignorant Americans, blindly following your government into war.

    Wake up before it is too late.  Stop thinking about minor issues such as homosexuality (face it - not being “against” it, as long as you take a vow that you won’t be one is about as tolerant as not spitting on the black lady as she gets to her seat at the back of the bus), sex in general and why you shouldn’t do drugs and instead think about what your leaders don’t want you to spend your time thinking about - why they are doing what they are doing.

    No easy answers.  Everything in life is shades of grey.  As I said before, Islam scares me; I personally think that Iran needs to be stopped or Israel is as good as toast.  But I don’t think that Bush has the moral authority to be the man to do it.  America doesn’t.  Things are complex and whatever someone tells you in a rock concert venue is likely to be either an outright lie or the truth twisted up to serve some obscene purpose.

    So, there you go, A “Grown Adult”, judging you, without even knowing you.  There are many like me, mentally fitting you all out with brown shirts.  Now please - prove my judgements wrong. Please.

    Please.

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    By Rev. Groove Smoothly, May 14, 2006 at 7:59 am Link to this comment
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    Jesus’ message is that if you follow his example you will be able to realize heaven (peace) on earth. I think some of you get this, what so many don’t seem to get is that the Ron Luces and George Ws don’t get it. Salvation is not a commodity that you can trade on nor is it something that will be handed out to you in the afterlife for your being pious.

    Jesus did not rally against the whores and the gays and the outcasts of his time he reached out to them. When frustration would get the better of him he rallied against the pimps and the players and against those that used God to line their pockets.

    He would not have struck out against the choices of a girl impregnated through force or circumstance he would have protected her from the man that rapes her or the father that would sell his daughter to the sex trade. 

    Why is it so hard for us to realize that in all of our historys the only men and women that are believed to have reached enlightenment have done so through the realization that LOVE of God and ALL of His creation is the path to salvation not force nor righteous patriotism to ones country or religion?

    It is neccessary that we be able to recognize the good and the bad in ourselves.

    Besides, bleeding heart liberals have all the fun because we know there aren’t bad words just bad ways to use them.

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    By malcontent, May 14, 2006 at 3:27 am Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    Always remember that xtianity is a lifestyle choice.  It just happens to be disgusting lifestyle choice but because it’s just a lifestyle choicse these misguided fools can be saved. It will be really hard to convert them to rationality and it may not be possible for all of them but it’s worth trying.

    It’s urgent that all of us rational people do our best to convert these people and free them from their brainwashing cult leaders. We all know what happens when xtians achieve power. They have a 100% record of murder and mayhem. Never ever let xtians achieve power. They always kill. Always, without exception, ever. Throughout the history of mankind whenever xtians have achieved political power they have always comitted massacres.

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    By Werebear Walker, May 14, 2006 at 2:25 am Link to this comment
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    Comment #9307 by Follower of Christ

    The poeple who protested the media around the nation on May 12th wanted to say they wre sick of seeing sex and drugs and SIN, glamorized on TV.

    +++++++++++++

    So, you’ve forgotten how to TURN THE TV OFF ?!?!?!

    Puh-thet-ic ....

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    By Bluein Texas, May 13, 2006 at 9:48 pm Link to this comment
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    For all of you right wingnut christofascists; if you don’t like what is in the media, turn it off. You can always watch that idiot on the 700 club, or reverend bob. Wake up and get off of the koolaid. Your religion is just superstition, exploited by the elites to keep you passive and compliant, cannon fodder.
    The war analogy that these nuts use is dangerous. They wan’t nothing less than to impose their warped views on the rest of society. How many unstable individuals have been driven to acts of violence by listening to this drivel?

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    By Hannah, May 13, 2006 at 8:42 pm Link to this comment
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    im sorry, but you are a mite confused. we are not waging war on the people of america. not on homosexuals, bisexuals, transvestites, abortionists, muslims, hindus etc. (it would take too long to name them all). we truly love these people. we dont spread ignorance; we spread the truth. if telling people what sleeping around really does to a person, they may be well informed and choose not to have sex before marriage. if we just went along with what TV tells them (its just a good time, you wont get pregnant, you wont get an STD, its the only way to show love) people will just continue to do it. when you have an abortion, you are not disposing of a fetus. you are killing a child. sice when does something go from non-living to living simply by getting larger and more developed? research shows that when you read to a baby still in the womb, their brain activity increases. are you to tell me that is just a lump of tissue? people wait for years to adopt a baby in america. the waiting list is huge. if a parent really cannot support a child, put it up for adoption! someone will love that child, and take care of them. i am sorry you are so confused and i will pray for you. Christ is not an ideal. He is my Lord and my God. i could not live a day without him. i hope that someday, you may know Him too.

    Yours in Christ, hannah

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    By Jeremy and Christy Newnum, May 13, 2006 at 8:23 pm Link to this comment
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    God still loves you! You have believed lies of the world, the Bible is the only infallible truth. Believe today.    Love, Jeremy and Christy

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    By bill, May 13, 2006 at 7:19 pm Link to this comment
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    I have to say, that my positions lie with those of the author. However, by spouting such a piles of unresearched nonsense and flame baiting references (such as “[this is w]hat drives Islamic fundamentalists to shroud women in burkhas.” and my favorite “As the Bush regime wages unjust wars and conducts torture in our names, as it leaves New Orleans to rot and drags us closer each day to a theocracy in which abortion and birth control are banned” ) he reveals his own fanaticism, at the expense of his objectivity. These vague left wing generalities sound more like his own battle cries, than legitimate debatable positions or reporting.

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    By Joanna, May 13, 2006 at 6:43 pm Link to this comment
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    I think some people here are confused. Even I am, we are not about battle cry, we’re not about Ron Luce, he isn’t our God, he isn’t our King. We aren’t about killing. At least, I’m not, I’m a Christian, but, I don’t believe in killing, I don’t believe that God wants us to kill, infact, we are to love our enemies; “live peaceably with all men…do not overcome evil for evil rather repay evil for good”(Rom 12:17-18,19)

      I don’t hate homosexuals, bisexuals, or transvestites or any person, I don’t like the sin because God is against it. I have a ton of friends that are different than me, whether skin color or religion, but God calls us to love them.

      The verses you quoted, in leviticus, deteronomy, and 2nd peter. Are misquoted. The Jewish nation was called to follow those laws, then when Christ died for us on the cross and paid our sins, all we had to do was to believe in Him. Read the Bible, it tells you the Truth. But, you need to read the New Testament. But, I just wanted you to know, that most true Christians, don’t believe in murder or anything like that. We’re not for it. We don’t want blood. And Ron luce does have his mistakes, that’s the whole thing about Christianity, we’re all screw ups and God loved us enough to send His Son to die for us. We don’t have to be perfect - we’re forgiven. We strive to love to show our love for Christ.  That’s the whole thing.

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    By Follower of Christ, May 13, 2006 at 6:18 pm Link to this comment
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    I have more than one issue 3 paragraphs into this article.
    “The leaders of BattleCry claim that their religion and values are under attack, but amid spectacular light shows, Hummers, Navy SEALs and military imagery on stage, it is BattleCry that has declared war on everyone else.” 

    BattleCry hasn’t declared on eveyrone else.  They have delared war on the media, on seeing sexaual referances every other second.  We don’t want to see it. 

    “Homosexuality and masturbation are sins. Interns are forbidden to listen to secular music, watch R-rated movies or date; men can’t use the Internet unsupervised; the length of women’s skirts is regulated.”

    Homosexuality and masturbation are sins anyway.  The Honors Academy isn’t making up new sins.  If they can’t whatch R- rated movies then they can’t whatch The Passion of The Christ.  If men can’t use the internet unsupervised why couldn’t women.  You mean The Honors Academy doesnt allow micro-minis, good!

    “Teen Mania and BattleCry are multimillion-dollar operations that send more than 5,000 missionaries to more than 34 countries each year. Their supporters and members are some of the most powerful and extreme religious lunatics in the country.”

    So about 80% of all Christian Teens are lunatics because they have gone or went to an Aquire the Fire.


    ” And, because Ron Luce leads youth to say in prayer, “I will keep my eyes on the battle, submitting to Your code even when I don’t understand,” it would be foolish to expect that there is any part of the Bible’s literal horrors this movement would be unwilling to enforce, including stoning disobedient children and non-virgin brides (Deuteronomy 21:18-21 and 22:13-21), executing gays (Leviticus 20:13), and keeping slaves (Peter 2:18).”

    God calls us to follow him even when we don’t want to, when we don’t knwo whats going to happen, and when we don’t understand.  The books Deuteronomy, Leviticus, and Peter are in the old testement.  When reading the Old testement one has to take into account the times they lived in.  show us why we don’t follow the old testement.

    “These young people need to be challenged to look around themselves and think for themselves. ” 

    Thats what Aquire the Fire strives for teenagers to do.  They don’t brainwash us.  They tell us to challegde what we know, and ask what we don’t.

    -Follower of Christ

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    By Follower of Christ, May 13, 2006 at 5:51 pm Link to this comment
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    The poeple who protested the media around the nation on May 12th wanted to say they wre sick of seeing sex and drugs and SIN, glamorized on TV. 

    -Follower of Christ

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    By Keith, May 13, 2006 at 1:08 pm Link to this comment
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    I believe there may be a misconception on at least two major points concerning the Battlcry rallies and events.

    First off, Teen Mania Ministries is not trying to impose their beliefs on the youth to take away their ability for making their own choices, but are just voicing what many have already believed.

    The beliefs that are put across to the youth are not new, they are beliefs CHRISTians have held for over 2000 years.

    They are not shaping our beliefs but encouraging our own convictions. They are not changing our thoughts, but giving us an opportunity to express them on a national level.

    Yes, there was a war theme with the stadium events. This is because even the Bible describes a battle that every CHRISTian is a part of. But it’s not a real physical war, but a spiritual one.

    The scripture says, Ephesians 6:12 For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world’s rulers of the darkness of this age, and against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

    Which means we are not battling against people, and that it’s not a physical war. If you read further it even describes what our armor and weapon is…

    The helmet of salvation which is simply trusting in Jesus for the cleansing of our sins.

    The belt of truth which is the basic truths that are understood by us and helps to keep our armor together.

    Then the breastplate of righteousness which is a pure heart.

    And so on…

    The only weapon mentioned is the sword of the Spirit which is simply the word of God. The scripture.

    It also says that..2 Corinthians 10:4 for the weapons of our warfare are NOT of the flesh, but mighty before God to the throwing down of strongholds,

    Which means we don’t use real weapons. But we fight on a spiritual level, throwing down spiritual strongholds that hold us in spiritual darkness.

    Even Jesus didn’t command his servants to fight when he was delivered up to the man that ultimately gave the order to have him murdered.
    Jesus’s reply to him was..

    John 18:36 Jesus answered, “My Kingdom is not of this world. If my Kingdom were of this world, then my servants would fight, that I wouldn’t be delivered to the Jews. But now my Kingdom is not from here.”

    A real war will not profit us at all. But the spiritual war is of much more importance.

    If you read through this I want to say that I appreciate you taking the time to attempt an understanding of where we are coming from.

    It is noble to seek truth based on understanding and not just purely on emotion.

    I hope this will help to clarify what we really mean when we do the things we do and say the things we say.

    Keith

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    By C. M. Baxter, May 13, 2006 at 11:05 am Link to this comment
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    Dear Pastor Josh,

    Who here has forcibly shoved anything down your throat?  Is someone standing behind you with a knife, forcing you to read these comments?  Roughly 84% of Americans believe in a personal god and a good majority of them, like you, habitually whine about being persecuted.  This is not ancient Rome, there are no lions and you are not being persecuted.  You are simply being laughed at, as you should be.  I certainly do respect your right to speak out for what you believe.  I also respect that same right for the KKK, the holocaust deniers and the flat earth advocates.  Meanwhile, whether you respect my rights or not, I will continue to consider your beliefs hilarious.  I must ask, however, what, exactly, are those biblical principles upon which America was founded?  I ask that question with great trepidation since you may think I really don’t respect your right to make such an idiotic claim.

    And this thing about stripping you of your bibles in schools.  That is just too funny!  What are the tens of thousands of tax-free churches for if not to study the bible?  Does this mean you would have nothing to say to “little Jimmy” if he were to bring his copy of Darwin’s Origin of Species from school and browse it during church services?  Lol, Sir.  LOL!

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    By Bluestocking, May 13, 2006 at 10:24 am Link to this comment
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    As much as you disagree with it and possibly even hate it.  The United States was founded on biblical principles, and Christians make up a fairly large percentage of Americans.—Pastor Josh

    ***********************

    With all due respect, sir…you have either been misinformed, or you are engaging in a deliberate deception. I can understand the former, even though ignorance in the day and age of the internet is a pretty feeble excuse—however, I would not be willing to countenance the latter and especially not from a self-professed member of the clergy.

    Your statement is only half-true—Christians do indeed make up a large percentage of Americans. *However*, anyone who knows the history of the events leading up to the Revolutionary War knows that the United States was NOT in fact “founded on Biblical principles”.  There’s no question that nearly all of our Founding Fathers professed a faith in God—however, many of them were not Christians in the same way that many conservatives would define it today.  Many of them were in fact Deists and as such were opposed to the idea of blending religion with politics.  This was, after all, one of the very objections they had against British rule. The Colonists were, as everyone knows, required to pay taxes to the British Crown. Among these were taxes specifically paid to the official state church, the Church of England founded by Henry VIII. From that time forward, the reigning sovereign of England has been and continues to be considered the head of the Church of England—to this day, one of the sovereign’s official titles continues to be “Defender of the Faith”.  The Colonists were required to pay taxes to the Church of England regardless of whether they belonged to that church or not—many did not and had traveled to the Colonies for precisely that reason—or even if they were not Christians. mPartly as a result of this, the Constitution is not in fact based on the Ten Commandments as some people have tried to claim (some with good intentions, others not) but is instead based on British common law. Note, for example, that the Constitution includes no references to idolatry or adultery or honoring one’s parents—one would think these might be present if this country was “founded on Biblical principles” and if our Founding Fathers specifically intended this to be a Christian nation instead of a nation populated largely by Christians—the two are not the same, sir. Indeed, there is no specific reference to God or to Christ in the Constitution. The Declaration of Independence does use the word “God” but only once—and it does not specify that this is the Judeo-Christian God of the Bible.  It reads “...and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them…”

    One thing which is specifically mentioned is the Freedom of Religion which was purposefully included precisely in order to prevent what Battle Cry desires to accomplish—enforcing their interpretation of their own religious morality on the American public wholesale regardless of whether or not the majority share those views or even wish to do so. This, in my opinion, not only runs contrary to the principles for which our Founding Fathers were willing to lay down their lives but also directly contradicts the teachings of Christ.  Jesus always invited or entreated people to follow Him—He never forced Himself on anyone. He always respected the right of the individual to choose for himself or herself, even if that choice led down the wrong path.

    I have no objection to Christians voicing their views on various topics—after all, that’s what Freedom of Speech is all about.  However, I have a bone to pick with evangelical Christians who claim that they’re being persecuted simply because many other Americans choose to hold different moral and political beliefs. In my estimation, evangelicals are to some extent simply reaping what they’ve sown. The very nature of evangelic Christianity contains at its heart a fervent wish to transform nonbelievers into believers—and unfortunately, at least in my experience (and I’m sure I’m not the only one), many are guilty of going overboard in this endeavor and being less-than-respectful to say the least of other people’s rights to live their own lives as they see fit. Respect is a two-way street—Jesus knew this very well, and you yourself pointed it out with the example of the smoker. If you want other people to give it to you, you must be willing to give it to others—and there, I’m afraid, a considerable number among the evangelicals have been rather remiss over the many years. Christians are of course fully entitled to voice and practice their religious beliefs—but don’t expect the public school system to teach your children about the Bible, because that is NOT THEIR JOB. If you want your child to have a religious upbringing and moral code, that is YOUR job as a parent—and if you want your child to have a religious education, then either cough up the extra money and send them to a Christian school or teach them at home. If you want your fellow Americans to act like adults, a good place to start is to treat them like adults—not like children who really aren’t capable of knowing what’s good for them and need to have their decisions made for them.

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    By Hilding Lindquist, May 13, 2006 at 8:50 am Link to this comment
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    Oops, re:#9186 should have read: “I escaped from a Fundamentalist Christian childhood into a wonderful creative life as a transcendental existentialist.”

    The human capacity to creatively imagine possibility and choose what ought to be, and then work to make our choice of oughtness our isness ... this is the totality of our humanness.

    Our awareness arising out of our preceding existence is so rich in creative possibility ... that to block this potential in any child by religious fearmongering is what is truly evil in the human condition.

    To be afraid of the joyful exuberance of life without fear is the obscenity.

    Anyone who trades the freedom to play for attaining wealth and power has lost his or her humanity. Wealth and power should be used to enhance and secure the playground, not become ends in themselves.

    To the extent we allow others to play with us, we have peace. To the extent we exclude them, we have conflict.

    Conflict in itself is not bad, but abuse always is. And, if by winning we end play, we will have lost.

    Fundamentalism is based on fear. Fear that prevents us from experiencing the fullness of life does more harm than good.

    This I believe.

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    By Scott Gilley, May 13, 2006 at 7:42 am Link to this comment
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    Ron Luce doesnt literally mean to go out and physically hurt the gays and non-virgins. he wants the youth of today to reach out to their generation and knock some sense into them because the media is perverting them with sex, drugs and lies. if any of you had gone to a Battlecry event, you would know exactly what Ron means by the “battle” theme. personally i think if people would just think for themselves and not let the media do it for them, that they would realize the truth in Mr, Luce’s message. i also believe that if u dont like our president, then shut your dang mouths until election and vote for someoe you like. or even better, move to a better country. even though i dont agree with what yall are saying, i still Love everyone of you, and God does too so dont forget that while you are putting down a man that Christ is working through.

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    By Vira, May 13, 2006 at 7:28 am Link to this comment
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    I would first like to say that BattleCry is not of hate towards any human being and his or her rights to live the way they choose. BattleCry is a call for the “cultural Christians,” the ones who give Christianity a bad image of being hypocrites and such, to change and become what Jesus Christ was and is. He showed God’s Love to every person no matter their religion, sexual preference, diseases, or criminal background. Even as He did all these things, Jesus never allowed them to go without hearing the truth.

    The truth is:
    =There is a Heaven and a Hell.
    =If you have sinned you can not enter Heaven.
    =All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God.
    =The only way to have your sins forgiven is through Jesus Christ. He died on the cross for the sins of every man and woman, including YOU.

    We, Followers of Christ, are not here to condemn you. We are here to stand as an image of Christ, so that all may see the Glory of GOD, our Creator, Father, and Friend.

    I apologize for any actions taken by someone under the name of Christ that did not reflect His Love. I apologize for the actions that I took in the past which may have hindered anyone’s opinion of a Christian because I was not acting as such.

    We, the BattleCry, are fighting for our rights as people, not as any part of a group or religion. We do think for our selves. We know what we believe, just as you know what you believe. Do you think that our age has anything to do with that? We are so aware of everything that is going on in our country. We have all the information that we need to make a decision of what we believe. We have chosen our beliefs.

    Now we stand up for them, just as you stand up for your beliefs, but we don’t judge you by what your brother or sister or other family member does. We judge you for who you are. Even though the things you do are not Godly, we will still show you the love and compassion that you, one of God’s Creations, deserve.

    Jesus Loves You, whether you like it or not.
    I love you, also, because Christ first loved me.

    I would like to encourage you to think about what I have written. Did I show hate or love? Did I condemn or encourage?

    Thank you for taking the time to read what I have to say.

    p.s. We are not supporting Bush or any other politician. We are not fascists. We will not become violent. We will not fade away.

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    By bfranky, May 13, 2006 at 5:30 am Link to this comment
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    Check out “The Department of Homeland Decency: Decency Rules and Regulations Manual.” It’s a hilarious satire of what these people want. You can read about it and find out how to order it at http://www.homelanddecency.com

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    By Bluestocking, May 13, 2006 at 4:36 am Link to this comment
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    Paging Margaret Atwood…!!

    The code of behavior which these people apparently subscribe to (and want all of America to subscribe to) is not only a Christian version of the Taliban, it’s like something out of “The Handmaid’s Tale”. This Luce fella doesn’t happen to be a disciple of the late Rousas John Rushdoony by any chance…?  Sure sounds like it—can you say “Dominionism”?

    This man claims to be a Christian, and is advocating violence??  Funny…I seem to remember a passage in the New Testament to the effect that “those who live by the sword shall die by the sword”.

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    By bobby johnson, May 13, 2006 at 1:42 am Link to this comment
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    god does not have an army,nor has he told anyone to do anything,its human evil-gelicals who are directing this on their own,there hypocrisy is driving a wedge between peoples,god hasn`t spoken to anyone in years,too disappointed in humans.peace

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    By Pastor Josh, May 13, 2006 at 1:06 am Link to this comment
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    Wow.  What an extremely narrow minded article.  As a youth pastor, and as one who has shared a rather disagreeable feeling toward evangelical Christianity in the past.  I must say that this article misrepresents pretty much everything that Christianity and the Battle Cry coalition is all about.

    As I open my mind to the possibilities of your perspective being impervious to error, please consider that mine may not be just as fascist and pro-Bush that you have forcibly shoved down my throat.

    If I were to assume correctly, America is no longer a nation that can politely ask you to put out your cigarette when it causes me to cough.  In fact, when the owner of the restaurant we are sitting in politely agrees you should do so, we now have the rights to demand that the owner be removed from his position and that a more “enlightened” owner be put in his place.  One that would see the disgusting fascist error of those who don’t smoke and expecting those who do to simply “politely put out our butt”.

    Look people, Christians have just as much of a voice in this country as you do.  Whether you happen to believe in the absolute authority of the Bible, or in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ really makes no difference, it doesn’t take away our rights.

    Strip us of our bibles in schools because little Jimmy doesn’t want to hear that it’s wrong to steal is ok.  But when we try to take away the “right” for gays to legally marry, which by the way is not a constitutional right at the moment, you all freak out and want to crucify someone over it.

    We hold a peaceful rally that explains how we feel when people crap all over us and our kids because we feel that culture strongly pushes against our beliefs, that by the way is a constitutional right, we suddenly become a fascist, anti-gay, narrow minded, group of cult leaders.

    The fact is, America’s smoking habit is causing us trouble to breath.  We are politely asking that you put out your cigarette.  Of course you enjoy smoking, but the people around you don’t.  When something you enjoy doing is harming other people, it is no longer ok for you to do it.

    As much as you disagree with it and possibly even hate it.  The United States was founded on biblical principles, and Christians make up a fairly large percentage of Americans.  So when we stand up and say that some particular TV program is horribly offensive to our values, or that we feel marriage should be between a man and a woman, or that we support our troops, we have just as much of a right to say something about it as anyone else.

    As a Christian man/husband/father/brother/son/uncle/etc.. to someone who may not necessarily share my beliefs.  I would ask that you respect my rights to speak out for what I believe.  And don’t place me in some narrow minded cliché of what a Christian is, or assume that you know everything there is to know about my beliefs and passions.

    As a friend of those who pursue truth,

    God Bless you,

    And thank you for allowing me to share my opinion with you.

    Pastor Josh

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    By Pam, May 12, 2006 at 11:17 pm Link to this comment
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    We are not trying to belittle you in any way.  We as teenagers are taking a stand and saying enough is enough, with all the sex images and the provative learics we are hearing today.  We want to let the politicians and government know that we want some changes made and we actually stood up for what we want.  We are in no way judging you or anything of that nature.  We didn’t say anything hurtful about or to you, because that is not our goal. We do take to heart what the Bible says but not all things are meant to be taken literally.  Like the things mentioned above like keeping slaves, and such and such mentioned.  That was the covenant made before Jesus was here on earth.  In the new Testament a new covenant was made because He died for YOU and ME.  Sure you combat the Bible but do you actually read it and try to understand it?  If you only read bits and pieces sure it will look like a meaningless book. But until you read before and after the passages you will not truley understand what the Bible is saying.  “Religion” is man’s attempt to find God.  The GOSPEL (God’s words found in the Bible) is God’s plan to reach man. God says to love your neighbor as yourself and to love the people who hate you.  So I love you guys not because that’s what God says to do, but because the more I read the above comments I began to realize how lost this generation and the generation before us is.  I pray that somehow God will reveal himself to you.  By the way we don’t force people to accept Jesus Christ, we plant “the seed” and the choice is their’s. PLEASE FEEL FREE TO E-MAIL ME ON YOUR OPINION I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY.

    Consumed by the Call,
    Pam

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    By R, May 12, 2006 at 11:02 pm Link to this comment
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    I am a Christian.  In response to bill’s “Who would Jesus kill?”—no one.  But no one is perfect, either.  Christians are no exception.  We never said we were.  But these BattleCry rallies do NOT encourage stoning of people, or keeping of slaves, or anything like that.  Please understand that.  No one’s life should be ended just because they believe or practice something we believe is wrong.  Life is sacred.

    In response to the other names and profanities some of these comments contain…hey, you’re entitled to your opinion.  You’re entitled to your right to free speech.  But let US speak, too.  The First Amendment applies to everyone, whether you like them or not.  And since we’ve said that, how can you call us fascists?  We are letting you have your opinion.  Please let us have ours.

    I believe BattleCry is doing a good thing.  They are trying to wake up a generation that is going to end up in a mudpit of moral degradation if we don’t do something.  Does that mean you have to agree with what their interns wear or do or say?  No, but keep in mind that the interns also choose to become interns; no one forces them to.  And we are not trying to say that anyone is less than human just because they don’t believe what we believe, so please stop calling us “Hitler youth”.  And we are not trying to oppress scientists; I am pursuing a career in science.  Do I expect everyone in my field to believe as I believe?  No.  But I’m not going to shake my finger in their face day in and day out.

    I’m not asking you all to stop having opinions.  I’m just asking that you find out a little bit more about what Ms. Taylor is so avidly persecuting before you judge the people involved.

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    By BruceMac, May 12, 2006 at 11:02 pm Link to this comment
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    Send TeenMania an email telling them you think they suck: .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address). This is indeed the Hitler Youth.

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    By Linda Flores, May 12, 2006 at 10:29 pm Link to this comment
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    To the poster who asked if anyone had any ideas about how to drive out the Evil Empire—-


    everyone should go to http://www.worldcantwait.net, which is the site for an organization dedicated to driving out the Bush Regime before it’s too late ... you should check out, support, and get with this worthy and very important organization. Their site is full of tons of news, articles, calls to action, etc.

    and for further theoretical knowledge, there are two major pieces by Bob Avakian, Chairman of the Revolutionary Communist Party, that are really worth digging into:

    http://rwor.org/a/029/avakian-civil-war.htm

    http://rwor.org/avakian/avakian-works.html#newseries

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    By Fwee, May 12, 2006 at 9:55 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    Has anyone ever read this?

    http://www.vaniercollege.qc.ca/Auxiliary/Psychology/Frank/Thirdwave.html


    I just thought that maybe some of you might be interested in it.

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    By Vic Anderson, May 12, 2006 at 7:57 pm Link to this comment
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    Looks more like the Orwellian Youth League. We simply must get beyond belief here in this country and throughout the world.

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    By Hilding Lindquist, May 12, 2006 at 7:01 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    I escaped from a Fundamentalist Christian childhood into a wonderful creative life as a transcendental existential ... but god! it was pretty squirrelly unlocking the mental and emotional chains of a childhood in which I doubted that Moscow with its funny looking buildings was real, but knew for a fact that heaven and hell were real.

    I have recently completed the rewrite of my 3-act play, HUNTING THE ROAD KILL MOOSE—dealing with the issues of conflicting attitudes toward our sexuality because of religion—for a coming dramatic presentation workshop off-off (really off) Broadway in the Village in the near future ... and I have made the text available non-commercially for discussion and education on The Blog Lattice ( http://www.bloglattice.org/ ). the play itself can be accessed at:

    http://www.bloglattice.org/Hunting_the_Road_Kill_Moose-Act_I.html

    It has been well received in its initial dramatic reading last year at the Symposia Bookstore in Hoboken, NJ, and then later in a series of in-depth workshop critiques this year with the Write Group in Montclair, NJ.

    Feedback is invited ... and you can contact me through my blog at:

    http://www.ncswede.blogspot.com/

    Report this

    By Peterson Toscano, May 12, 2006 at 6:41 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    Yikes! This coupled with the ex-gay programs insistence on targeting youth in their campaign to dehomosexualize America reveals just how extreme the fear these folks feel and the dangers that can arise from that fear.

    Report this

    By D Allen, May 12, 2006 at 6:32 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    Anybody have any ideas on how to overthrow the evil empire?

    Report this

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