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Battle Cry for Theocracy

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Posted on May 11, 2006
World Can't Wait protests against BattleCry
From worldcantwait.net

Protesters allied with the anti-Bush organization The World Can’t Wait attempt to drown out a March 26 rally by the anti-gay Christian evangelical group BattleCry. The rally occurred on the steps of San Francisco’s City Hall, where homosexual couples had been married.

By Sunsara Taylor

Editor’s note: In this opinion piece, a young activist explores the frightening world of a Christian evangelical youth movement that is holding rock concerts and rallies at city halls nationwide this weekend.

(First column a series of three. Second column here, third column here.)

  • Update: Read what BattleCry attendees are saying about this series of columns.
  •  

  • Update #2: User-submitted photos available: page 1 and page 2

  • If you?ve been waiting to get alarmed until the Christian fascist movement started filling stadiums with young people and hyping them up to do battle in ?God?s army,? wait no longer. 

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    In recent weeks, BattleCry, a Christian fundamentalist youth movement, has attracted more than 25,000 people to mega-rally rock concerts in San Francisco and Detroit, and this weekend it plans to fill Wachovia Stadium in Philadelphia.

    The leaders of BattleCry claim that their religion and values are under attack, but amid spectacular light shows, Hummers, Navy SEALs and military imagery on stage, it is BattleCry that has declared war on everyone else. Its leader, Ron Luce, insists: ?This is war. And Jesus invites us to get into the action, telling us that the violent—the ?forceful? ones—will lay hold of the kingdom.? 

    BattleCry is a part of the evangelical organization Teen Mania, and you can learn a lot about the kind of society that Teen Mania is fighting for by reading up on its Honor Academy, a non-accredited educational institution that offers directed internships to 700 undergraduate and graduate youth each year. Among the academy?s tenets: Homosexuality and masturbation are sins. Interns are forbidden to listen to secular music, watch R-rated movies or date; men can?t use the Internet unsupervised; the length of women?s skirts is regulated. The logic behind this—that men must be protected from the sin of sexual temptation—is what drives Islamic fundamentalists to shroud women in burkhas!

    Teen Mania and BattleCry are multimillion-dollar operations that send more than 5,000 missionaries to more than 34 countries each year. Their supporters and members are some of the most powerful and extreme religious lunatics in the country. BattleCry?s ?partners? include Pat Robertson (who got a call from Karl Rove to discuss Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito before the nomination was made public), Charles Colson (who as President Richard Nixon’s lawyer was knee-deep in the Watergate scandal and who went to jail for obstruction of justice in the Pentagon Papers case), and Jerry Falwell (who blamed Sept. 11 on homosexuals, feminists, pagans and abortionists). BattleCry?s events have been addressed by former First Lady Barbara Bush (via video) as well as former President Gerald Ford. This weekend?s event will include Franklin Graham, who has ministered to George W. Bush and publicly proclaimed that Islam is an ?evil religion.?

    What most of these figures have in common is their insistence that the Bible be read literally and obeyed as the inerrant word of God. And, because Ron Luce leads youth to say in prayer, ?I will keep my eyes on the battle, submitting to Your code even when I don?t understand,” it would be foolish to expect that there is any part of the Bible?s literal horrors this movement would be unwilling to enforce, including stoning disobedient children and non-virgin brides (Deuteronomy 21:18-21 and 22:13-21), executing gays (Leviticus 20:13), and keeping slaves (Peter 2:18).

    Luce’s followers staged a protest in March on the steps of San Francisco?s City Hall because gay weddings had taken place there. Their answer to the scourge of rape and violence against women is to end the right of divorce, spread ignorance and insist on virginity -? the very things that will entrap more women in these nightmares. And this Friday, they are planning rallies at 50 city halls nationwide.

    Of course, like the president, who gave Ron Luce an appointment to the White House Advisory Commission on Drug-Free Communities, BattleCry tells its share of bald-faced lies. For one, it claims that ?a society fortified by Biblical principals and a strong moral code ... is the heritage our forefathers fought and died to secure for us.? But the word “God” never appears in the Constitution. After three and a half months of debate about what should go into the document that would govern the land, the framers drafted a secular constitution.

    BattleCry also claims America has been ?set aside for God?s purposes -? a country established for good and fruitfully blessed so that we might take God?s message to the ends of the earth.? It is revealing that for all its talk about the value of life and the evils of violent imagery, BattleCry never speaks against the real violence and loss of life being inflicted by U.S. troops in Iraq.

    Still, there is one thing that BattleCry gets right: This country is in the midst of a deep moral crisis. We are indeed living through times when business-as-usual is unconscionable.

    As the Bush regime wages unjust wars and conducts torture in our names, as it leaves New Orleans to rot and drags us closer each day to a theocracy in which abortion and birth control are banned, science is pulled under and gays are persecuted, it is no wonder that young people are searching for meaning and morality. However, the truth is that youth will not find the morality they need in a stadium listening to Ron Luce preach about religious war and intolerance. And they won?t find it while buying BattleCry?s keepsake dog tags. 

    These young people need to be challenged to look around themselves and think for themselves. 

    I am confident that if they do, many of them may find that the truly moral way to live is to throw their tremendous energies and dreams of a better world into stopping this madness and driving out the Bush regime.

    This generation ?- and its counterparts around the world -? will have to live with the consequences of this culture war, one way or another.


    Sunsara Taylor writes for Revolution newspaper and sits on the advisory board of The World Can?t Wait—Drive Out the Bush Regime.


    New and Improved Comments

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    By Girl for God, January 30, 2011 at 2:00 am Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    I have been to several Acquire the Fire events and I can tell you something remarkable happens. I see thousands upon thousands of youth desperate for the Lord, who not only find that passion and love for Christ but keep it and share it. It gave me a passion for Christ that I didnt know. The type of relationship I hadnt found. I grew up in the church and I knew about God, and I knew I loved him and he loved me but I found a passion. Ron Luce cares for this generation, if he didnt why would he do so much for it? And you are getting the “warfare” of it totally wrong. We are suppose to be at war for Christ. We are called to go into the world and share the gospel,pass on his love to others. This doesnt mean killing people like it is portrayed, but making a movement for Him. Soldiers give there all when they sign up. We are giving our all to God and letting God lead the way and our paths. Following the plan he has for us. I hope the Bible wont be taken out of context like in some previous comments. Luce and the honor academy do have rules, but its to protect what God wants there. If girls and guys could flaunt everything there, Im pretty sure God wouldnt be what is focus on. Temptations are human but we are suppose to avoid them, not give in and this makes it easier. Same with men not being allowed on the internet alone. When they leave they wont be supervised so while you are learning to resist temptations and live the way God would have you, and finding His plans for your life, wouldnt it be a good idea to have people hold you accountable?

    Report this

    By Timothy, October 7, 2008 at 12:53 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    Oh spare me Michael. That bit where you say homosexuals never hear the verse that follows Corinthians about homosexuals being “redeemed” when they give up their sexual orientation and become christian is an absolute farce. People are always spewing that “Being gay is a choice, you can choose to be straight and love god” drivel. Sorry, it’s not a choice. People don’t “choose” to be ostracized and excommunicated from their families, friends, religious groups and communities. Maybe you should do some research on how big a failure the whole “ex-gay christian” movement is.

    Also, please stop attempting to paint christians as this persecuted minority being oppressed by everyone else. Christians have dominated western civilization for the greater part of the last 2,000 years, they are often the ones doing the oppressing, not being oppressed.

    Report this

    By Michael, October 3, 2008 at 7:46 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    The author of this article is clueless about the motivations and beliefs of Christians.  His article fails to grasp the logical and moral base of Ron Luce’s teaching, and makes no effort to counterpoint a logical moral alternative.  His statement, “It would be foolish to expect that there is any part of the Bible’s literal horrors this movement would be unwilling to enforce, including stoning disobedient children and non-virgin brides (Deuteronomy 21:18-21 and 22:13-21), executing gays (Leviticus 20:13), and keeping slaves (Peter 2:18)” is absolutely ridiculous.  There is no accepted evangelical leader who believes any of those things.  William Wilberforce, because of his belief in Jesus, fought and succeeded in getting slavery outlawed in England.  In Hosea, God tells the prophet to marry a non-virgin; and after she is unfaithful, to take her back again (just as God was willing to accept unfaithful Israelites who returned to him).  In relation to homosexuality, people often take note of 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 which states: “Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders ... will inherit the kingdom of God.”  But they never mention what follows: “And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.”  In other words, there were first-century Christians who were living as homosexuals before they repented and followed Jesus.  And in doing so, they were not stoned, but accepted into the church, having been cleansed of their past sins.
    The author of the article is irresponsible as a writer, biased to the point of ignoring reality, and is attempting to make people afraid of a religion whose top two laws are “Love God” and “Love others.”  This is ridiculous fear-mongering.
    As far as the war, there were hundreds of pastors and church leaders who wrote to Bush and congress in 2003 declaring that the invasion of Iraq was unjust, unnecessary, and unconstitutional.  Unfortunately, there are some Christians who don’t accept Jesus’ teaching to “Love your enemies” and “do not take revenge” and “live at peace with everyone, as far as it depends on you”.  But regardless of whatever high-profile invitations Ron Luce has accepted from violence- and blood-minded governing officials, his “Battle Cry” calls people to wage peace upon the enemies of Christ, and to fight for the truth with weapons of love.  The violence with which Christians conquer the world on behalf of God’s Kingdom, is not a violence they perpetrate on others, but the violence which they endure against their own flesh as they stand firm in the face of persecution.  If it is fear you have of these Christians, it is only fear that they will not believe your lies, or conform to your wicked ways.

    Report this

    By Rob, July 10, 2008 at 6:48 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    Too little, too late kiddo

    That website was good for a laugh though, thanks

    Report this

    By rebecca, July 9, 2008 at 1:11 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    Rob?
    I can’t love you? Ok. I’ll just respect you and care about whether you have the right idea about God and not react when you get unjustly nasty.

    I can’t win against you in a scientific argument about circular reasoning, being 16 years old.  Yet I still believe. The arguments taking place on this board take place everywhere. If you have real doubts about God(understatement), there are plenty of people much smarter than me who can talk to you. My new favorite logic seeking Christian these days is poppy at digitalreason.wordpress.com.

    Bottom line, I don’t believe an ignorant little girl can argue you into belief on a web site, and I know a condescending old college guy(probably) isn’t going to break my faith on a web site. Whatev.

    If you are even still checking this….

    Report this

    By annonymous, April 7, 2008 at 11:19 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    what i don’t understand is why everyone is getting their feathers ruffeled about what other people are doing…  america is a free country people have the freedom of speech and freedom of religion.  if someone is homosexual you dont hear a huge fuss anymore (and oh well, if we worried about ourselves a little more instead of what other people were doing we may get somewhere) but if a person says they believe in God its almost as if thats the new crime.  yea some christians do get quite radical and many are hypocrites but that doesnt mean we should label the ones that arent just because they’re christians…why should anyone discriminate anyone? who are any of us to discriminate against other people? no christians shouldn’t discriminate against people that are homosexual or a diffrent religion or even people that have abortions or do things we dont believe people should be doing because truth is if we as christians are following my Gods example then we need to love these people regardless of what we may think because these are human beings just because others dont believe the same thing as you doesnt mean you should think any less of them, so what!? and why should christians be looked down on? just like different races there are certain people that can make the rest of us look bad, and besides we’ve only got one life…are we really going to obsess about other people or can we just live happy and enjoy the life we have? i was curious to see what people were saying on here since its been so controversial and im amazed to see that people are this concerned as if we dont have more important things to worry about… maybe our country would be a little more successful if we’d start working together instead of hating people that are different from us, but thats just my opinion and im done but you wont see anything else from me im moving on so i hope everyone has a blessed day and regardless of the hate that has been put on these pages i hope everyone is happy healthy and enjoying their life its too short…

    Report this

    By Maxx, March 31, 2008 at 10:32 am Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    Sure, if Christians follow the most common interpretations of the Bible, they probably will not be stoning anyone in the near future.

    However, do you believe that Jesus who was, by all appearances, a pacifist, would approve of Luce’s militaristic approach to religion?

    The way I see it, Luce is not spreading the spirit of Jesus’ teachings, but instead his interpretation of it based on a narrow-minded neo-conservative understanding.  Sure, maybe he’s no Pat Robertson, but he sure is hell is not emulating Jesus H. Christ if you get my drift.

    Besides, Christianity doesn’t exist.  Only Paulianity, because most of the tenets that are thrown around by folks like Luce are not straight from Jesus, but written by Paul and a few other mystery writers, undescribed in history.

    Report this

    By J, March 12, 2008 at 1:09 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    Christians aren’t going to stone anyone. If you read a little more of the Bible, you’d know that when the courts were trying to stone the woman who had commited adultery, Jesus told them that only whomever had NOT sinned could throw the first stone. Of course all of them had sinned except for Jesus, and he forgave her. As CHRISTians we are to follow CHRIST’s example. We are to always forgive, and not to focus our energies on the splinter in a neighbors eye and not the plank in our own.

    Report this

    By whatsgoingon???, February 10, 2008 at 11:07 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    why the wasted energy? you attack what christians beleive, so why shouldnt they fight back? hello - we all have egos to uphold! did someon get hurt or get abused at battlcry? iyiyiyiyi   - fighting for peace in the world? tackle a bigger better issue!
    why attack christians ? through their help aka relief aid- many have better homes, lives, neighborhoods, towns, relationships, health, etcetcetcetcetera.
    chill out. make someone elses life better, then call the christians evilwarmongering fascist blah blah..
    . for both offending parties- its easy to “believe”, hard to actually do something useful to our culture, society, and personal lives. this arguement makes me want to laugh, yet also cry.      its easy to judge, it comes naturally.
    but actually looking at the whole picture and understanding? that is a tough, ego-torturing burden. 

      good luck, in not tearing some other human being down for the sake of your incredibly important “cause”.  hopefully some good will come of this issue.    (unfortunately , “good” could be twisted to mean anything these days).

    its way too easy to judge for judging to have any challenge to it.


    btw. the internet is the worst place to make a point.
    that goes for me too.  looking back, i hope this hasnt been a waste of my time as it may have been yours.

    Report this

    By Rob, February 9, 2008 at 5:01 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    “break through the walls of secular society.”

    Again you contradict yourself. You listed alcohol as something to be abolished, and then said you don’t want prohibition. You say you don’t want a theocracy, then say you want to break through the walls of secular society. So what’s it gonna be?

    Battlecry’s bogus “4%” propaganda has been shot down even by other evangelical groups. Want actual statistics? 22% of the population claims to be certain Jesus will save the day sometime in the next 50 years, with another 22% claiming he “probably” will. This is 44% of the population who practically welcomes Armageddon. Hardly 4% by any means, and truly disturbing. We are regressing at an astronomical rate.

    I could honestly care less about MTV, particularly around the early 90’s when they stopped playing music and focused more on crappy reality tv shows and popularity contests. It’s embarassing if teens are truly “told” to do things by MTV and even more embarrassing if the only alternative is to be “told” to do things by organizations such as Battlecry. Not really much of an emphasis on self-determination, but just a different case of sheep flocking around.

    Report this

    By Danielle, February 7, 2008 at 8:08 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    Rob, I don’t want prohibition. I don’t want sex to be “done away with.” However, I do want the media (MTV) to stop showing teenagers that going out and getting drunk is okay. They make it seem fun, but you’ll notice that they never show what really happens. They don’t show alcohol poisoning, trips to the hospital, et cetera. I don’t necessarily even want laws against alcohol, well, since; we already have one that says you have to be 21 to drink. But hey, if MTV endorses it, it must be okay.

    Secondly, sex is not a bad thing. God created sex for the enjoyment of a man and a woman who have been married. However, when you have sex outside of marriage, you are sinning. And there will be consequences- STDs, pregnancy, etc, which leads to people being married out of obligation, which leads to divorce. Or, the girl could just call MTV. They’re happy to help teens get abortions behind their parents back!
    So pretty much, they endorse sex and abortion too.

    Finally, I can change this generation. And if I can’t do it myself, I’ll help the other hundreds of thousands of teenagers who are on fire for God. We have faith that God can do all things- and He will give us strength to move mountains and shape this culture which is destroying His generation. And, “My” generation does need Jesus more than ever. It’s said to have the lowest number of bible believing Christians ever in America- 4%.
    I do agree with you though- A generation is made up of varying individuals, including people who think and act differently than me. But that’s the beauty of it! God made them all! He knows their hearts and He is the only one who can reach them and break through the walls of secular society.

    -Consumed by the call

    Report this

    By Rob, February 5, 2008 at 7:19 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    Danielle, you’ve simply just regurgitated the ad campaign line I’ve heard from every follower of Battlecry. A bunch of gibberish about “saving a generation” and other blah blah blahs.

    You’ve also just demonstrated that you are for the suppression of freedoms. You listed alcohol on a list of things that you want done away with, meaning you are for prohibition. Prohibition already occurred in America, Danielle, and it did not yield very nice results. If anything, this country could stand to kick it’s drinking age down to 18, the way most of the modern world does, which would allow young people to become acclimated to drinking responsibly at an earlier age if they choose to do so.

    You also listed “sex” as a negative thing, which is telling of the continued mindset of organized religion. Thousands of years have gone by, and we are still told that the act is wrong, that masturbation is wrong, that pre-marital copulation is wrong, that our own body parts are wrong. It’s also telling in that the rate of teen pregnancies, abortions and sexually transmitted diseases in “godless” European countries like Iceland and Norway is far below that of the “pious” nation of America.

    You can’t change an entire generation Danielle. You can influence a small portion of it which follows the christian faith. A generation is made up of varying individuals, including people who think and act differently than you. Every generation has to go through the usual pains. Drugs, rape, and suicide are not regulated to any time period. Our parents’ generation had it rough, as did their parents’ generation and their grandparents’ before them. So you may think “your” generation needs Jesus, but there are just as many people in that generation who might recommend that you need some rational thinking.

    Report this

    By Danielle, February 5, 2008 at 3:37 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    Rob, you’ve got it all wrong.
    Battle Cry’s goal is NOT to form a theocracy. The culture war is against the things that are destroying this generation! Sex, alcohol, drugs, rape, suicide, porn, and so much more! People are dying and we’re just not going to sit back and watch!
    And what’s more, all of that is advertised openly in songs, television, and the internet! That is what we’re fighting against. The basic truth is that our generation needs Jesus.

    Report this

    By Rob, February 4, 2008 at 10:22 am Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    It just goes to show you that fundamentalists of any stipe are dangerous. Islamic fundamentalists are dangerous because, well, they’ll kill you if you don’t see it their way. But christian fundamentalist groups like Battlecry are dangerous in their own way. They are dangerous in that they want to undermine our democracy and turn it into a bastardized theocracy. They want to control education and the personal lives and freedoms of individuals throughout America. This “culture war” is bogus. Since it’s inception America has had a plethora of different cultures. I’m not making war on anyone who follows Biblical literacy, but I will fight back if I see them attempting to drag 21st century America back to 14th century Europe!

    Report this

    By Danielle, February 3, 2008 at 11:18 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    okay.
    First of all, the word of God is available to everyone- not just the wealthy. It’s called the bible. I love battle cry and am looking forward to THIS FRIDAY =] for the one in NYC, and of course it involves reading of the word, but how do you expect TeenMania to pay for the lights, bands, merch, sound, speakers, etc. without charging people?
    And the tears and actions of the youth in the audience were a reaction to the conviction of the Holy Spirit. It’s absolutely beautiful, not cult like.
    And lastly, no one can martyr themselves, the definition of a martyr is a person who is PUT TO DEATH or endures great suffering on behalf of any belief, principle, or cause. As Christians, we are representatives of Christ and His love. We will endure hardship and go to the ends of the earth in order to make Him known, and honestly, we don’t give a hoot if you think it’s extreme! We’re on fire for Jesus!
    I think ya’ll need to go to a battle cry in order to form real opinions.
    =]
    God bless.
    Go to battle cry. =]

    Report this

    By An Infidel, February 2, 2008 at 8:47 am Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    I watched an HBO show on the Evangelical movement in this country.  After watching it I searched out Battlecry and found it very interesting that they charged kids and average of $40 a ticket to spread the “word of God” to them.  Apparently God is only available to the wealthy.  What I found really scary though was watching the cult like tears and actions of the kids in the audience.  I kept wondering how many of these kids would be willing to kill or “martyr” themselves for the Battlecry movement.  After having just spent 15 months away from home deployed in our Global War On Terror, this organization doesn’t look that much different from from the extremist groups in Iraq.

    Report this

    By Paul, January 22, 2008 at 10:58 pm Link to this comment

    Sany,

    People easily can be led astray from reality by con games, persuasion, illusions, enticements, and threats.

    Young minds are an easy target for such programs.

    You and your friend(s) should come to grips with how others try to manipulate you using religion, and not let things like that come between you and your friendship.

    Report this

    By Sany, January 17, 2008 at 10:00 am Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    I have a friend who believes there are invisible super-beings who control the world using their super powers and who communicate with her through telepathy.  She admits her beliefs are based on nothing more than things she read in an ancient book of tales - the Bible.

    Me and my sister still like this girl, but we are curious about why she believes such things.  She can’t tell us any good reason that makes sense.  She says she’s interested in this Christian fascist movement for young people.  So, I guess we won’t be able to enjoy her friendship much longer.

    Good luck to other who are having the same problems as our friend!

    Report this

    By Danielle, January 16, 2008 at 7:55 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    haha. okay, Simon. I should have researched that one. But even so, communism is long gone and we still use those mottos today.

    I’m not writing here because I think I’m wiser than anyone else. I’m writing because I have the Holy Spirit in me and my sole purpose is to spread His truth, love, mercy and grace.

    God bless you all.

    Report this

    By TaShonnTrenn, January 15, 2008 at 1:53 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    Why are you so against christianity? God loves you so much that he sent his only son to be beat and wipped and nailed to a cross. Do you know why he did that? so you could be able to have a bridge to get you into heaven. Jesus loves you, he did not get his life tooken from him, he laid it down willingly for you. So you can believe in him and be redeemed. What more do you want? What does God have to do for you to believe in him? He already has given you life. He created this world for you to live in. What is it that you are so against. That Christianity is against gays? WOW…I am sorry that we have the desire to have the heart of God. I am sorry that he put his heart into me. Actually, I am not sorry. I am Glad that God came into my life. DO you know the reason why Homosexuality is against God? It is because when you are gay you have disobeyed God. He said men be with women and women be with men. He created the two genders to marry eachother. Obviously, it would be against God to disobey his word and think you know better. Why do you write articles and campaigne against the Christian community? Give Me an email. i would like to talk to you about God and his infamous love. Maybe you should try to understand The bible and us. With Love From God.

    TaShonnTrenn

    Report this

    By Simon, January 15, 2008 at 11:07 am Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    ‘And that is to bring God back into this country. (Which, by the way, God WAS what this country was founded on. So, to the author, you left out “IN GOD WE TRUST” and “ONE NATION UNDER GOD.” ‘


    Both “In God We Trust” and “One Nation Under God” were put into the pledge of allegiance and currency in the 1950’s in an effort to counter the rise of communism. They were never used in the constitution or the Declaration of Independence. Sounds like you could stand to do some homework, oh wise 14 year old.

    Report this

    By Danielle, January 13, 2008 at 9:38 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    I’m 14 years old. I’ve been to battle cry twice, and I went to Mexico on a missions trip last summer (with teen mania).
    I’ve seen God work mightily and I don’t need to sit here and give you scientific evidence about why my God is real. I know. I have faith. I’ve seen miracles with my own eyes. I’ve seen hundreds of people convicted my the holy spirit and who have given their lives to Christ. This is real. This isn’t some little brainwashing rally to get kids to wage war on other people. This is a battle to fight the enemy- satan. We are fighting drugs, abortion, suicide, murder, rape, and all of the things that are DESTROYING this generation. And I can guarentee you that this battle is not going away. I, and hundreds of thousands of teenagers and adults are going to fight until this battle is won.
    And that is to bring God back into this country. (Which, by the way, God WAS what this country was founded on. So, to the author, you left out “IN GOD WE TRUST” and “ONE NATION UNDER GOD.”


    And to those of you who were asking about soup kitchens and such, I went to mexico last summer and guess where we worked for a little bit? a soup kitchen.

    To the author of this piece:
    I’d like to point out first that the length of girls skirts is regulated in schools, not just the honor academy (which I want to attend).
    And what is so wrong about it anyway?
    Not every girl wants to be half naked all the time!
    The goal is purity. Not totalitarian regime.


    Above all, God is love. I didn’t write this out of hate, at all. I just wanted to clear some stuff up for those of you who have no experience with teen mania.
    God loves every single person out there- homosexual, abortionist, bi, Islam, EVERYONE.
    “For God so loved the world, He gave his one and only Son. That whosoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.”


    God bless you ALL.

    Report this

    By Rob, January 5, 2008 at 5:09 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    No, it wasn’t much help because it’s more of the same circular logic and double speak I have come to expect. You’re right, slavery was different back then in that was largely accepted as a necessity and a common practice. Such ancient scribblings on how to maintain your indentured servants and slaves are irrelevant as morality today dictates that owning your fellow human beings as property and as tools for labor is NOT ACCEPTABLE IN ANY WAY. Your argument reminds me of arguments I’ve had with Muslim apologists who claim that dhimmis(non-believer citizens) are second class.

    Obedience is a must huh? Well, another abhorrent claim. Unquestioned obedience to warlords, popes, sultans, caliphs, and other domineering figures coped in the garb of faith has seen some of the worst atrocities in history.

    Spare me your claims of love for someone you don’t even know.

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    By Kathryn, January 5, 2008 at 6:01 am Link to this comment
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    What is in, on the inside of a person is what is waiting to come out, and that is why I beleive in God. For when a man is filled with the holy spirit, faith leads him. My God, yes my Lord, puts a hand on my shoulder, He builds me up, on the inside, He lets me see, He opens up the eyes of my heart, He fills me. I don’t need drugs, like you see them putting children on, many, many drugs, He keeps my soul clean and healthy, He gives me reason to beleive, to fight the Good Fight. He gives me a reason to love all of mankind and want His truth for all. He has guided me through all of life’s difficulties, and has given me a reason to beleive that it is only short lived. He give my heart and soul a new breathe, whether you have a sick child, or you are a soilder under attack. I am grateful that our Lord is a loving and forgiving Lord. For what we see in this world, with parital birth abortion, children being put on drugs, children being given the choice to be surgery altered, sex change operations. Parents beating their children, children beating their parents. Yes what is inside is etremely important. Love is not freedom to have sex, Love is respect for oneself, and all others we come in contact with. We see murder, abuse, drugs and sex running rampant, in an out of control soceity. What is inside is crucial to the soundness, sanity and the health of mankind. My God tells me I am beautiful and decent, worthwhile and cappable. All these values, principals are what are important. These values will keep a person sound and strong. So you see, you can’t break me, you can’t convince me that you are right, becasue for myself and my loved one’s we are with God, Here now and forever, for He is inside. One fine day we will go to be with Him for eternity.

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    By Rebecca, January 4, 2008 at 11:10 pm Link to this comment
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    Love ya, Sis!

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    By Rebecca, January 4, 2008 at 10:59 pm Link to this comment
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    It can get tiresome, but you are as flawed as anyone else, so try to be patient alright? Show them God’s understanding instead of your own anger.
    Love ya!

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    By Rebecca, January 4, 2008 at 10:55 pm Link to this comment
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    I was at Battlecry. There was a lot of support for helping people in need. We also have to look at the fact that there is an entire generation of teens that don’t know who Jesus is, and a rock concert in His name is the best way to wake them up. The people that organize battlecry are few in numbers compared to the amount of a fanbase they attract. The fanbase can make a signifigant difference in the world, and are making a difference. Thanks in part to Battlecry.

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    By Rebecca, January 4, 2008 at 10:49 pm Link to this comment
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    I’m following the Bible. Ron Luce is just a speaker who also believes what the Bible teaches. He isn’t ‘the man’
    All of my beliefs are centered around Jesus and His love for everyone. If Ron Luce was telling us anything that the Bible was not, we would not be agreeing.
    I hope you find Jesus.

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    By Rebecca, January 4, 2008 at 10:43 pm Link to this comment
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    These are all verses from the Bible, yes.
    Matthew 18:25 is a part of a parable that Jesus used to explain the concept of forgiveness. A servant owes his master a great debt. The master, by law of the land, has every right to sell the man and his family into slavery. Instead, the master forgives the debt. This, in the parable, is explaining God’s forgiveness of our great debt. Later in the story, the servant attacks someone who owes him a debt that is small in comparison to the one that he was forgiven. This explains the concept of how terrible it is to refuse to forgive other people, when God has forgiven so much more. Jesus mentioned slavery because it was something negative for the man who would be sold and those He explained it to would understand that there is a punishment that we have been saved from.

    Jesus teaches that we should put others before us, that we should be their servants.
    In Biblical times, slavery was a regular occurence. People understood the concept well. Luke 12:45 is a parable that Jesus told those that gathered to hear Him speak. It was about what His return will be like, and how the punishment will be worse for those that heard about Him and didn’t believe compared to those that didn’t believe because they were never told.
    Ephesians 6:5-9 (hopefully explained)
    Once again, this passage neither confronts nor praises slavery. It is a regulation for obedience, much like the Commandment to honor your parents. Slaves are expected to listen to their masters because they are bound to them by law(“Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s”). Jesus tells both the servant and the master that their good works will be repayed, and reminds the master that he too has a master.(Collosians 4:1 repeats this)
    1 Timothy 6
    This passage is about respect for authority. The servants are expected to honor their masters as a show of obedience because obedience is something that God values. Once again, God neither says to release the slaves or that slaves are moral. I’m not saying that God condones or rejects slavery, but before you jump to conclusions, look at what slavery really was like in Biblical times. Modern day slavery has very little similarity and it is difficult predict what Jesus would say about such a different use of slavery.
    I hope I helped. Yes, I think that in a way you took several of them out of context because they were parables that were not addressing slavery. I hope I was some help to you.
    I love you and Jesus loves you more!

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    By Rebecca, January 4, 2008 at 9:42 pm Link to this comment
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    First of all, I just want you to know that I’m not writing this to start a fight, only to try to explain some things.
    It’s the Teen Bill of Rights. I signed it. It isn’t meant to replace the real Bill of Rights. It is just a battle plan, which brings me to the next point. The fact that it is called Battlecry doesn’t mean we are trying to kill people. It is about a battle against Satan and sin. It is about living righteous lives in the midst of all of the temptations that are surrounding you.
    I’m not a follower of Ron Luce. I follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, my savior and risen Lord because He loves me enough to die for me. Ron Luce is just a man that is trying to prevent the destruction of our generation.
    A revolution does not mean an attack on the constitution. Luce is talking about a revolution of teens and really everyone turning their backs on the sin that has come into their lives and especially turning their backs on the groups that are filling our minds with filth: MTV, Hollywood, magazines, etc.
    Actually, I can pray in school and it isn’t a crime. Youth For Christ and Onfire are two clubs that have prayer breakfasts and meetings all the time in our school(ELCO, PA).
    Abortion really has nothing to do with school, and its not like we have to support everything that is the law.
    Battlecry’s humanitarian work as I see it is asking teens to take a look at whether or not they have a relationship with Jesus. It’s basically missions trip United States. When it comes to what you call Real humanitarian work, well, Christians don’t try to go around boasting about what good works they do, do they? I can give you an example, though. The churches in my community started an organization called Onfire Youth Ministry. There is a building on Main Street in our town where several times a week kids get together, hang out, play games, have a snack, and hear someone give a message based on God’s word. It’s great. Teens you would never see in a regular church hearing about Jesus and experiencing His love. I should know. Onfire is the best church I have ever been to. It is basically a place where you have a relationship with God and other followers of Jesus without all the pretenses. Onfire is a family.
    I’m not saying that there are no circumstances where Christians don’t just help those in need without telling the people about Jesus’ love, but why not? Having a relationship with God is the most important thing. That doesn’t mean we let the hungry starve if they don’t believe.
    What do you mean ‘Hitler had principles too.’ That doesn’t mean we agree with Hitler! You could just as easily say that Mother Theresa had principles too. Principles aren’t a bad thing. Luce is saying that the right thing isn’t always the popular thing.

    I don’t know what you were trying to prove by attacking the notion of honor..

    Respecting authority isn’t the same as allowing yourself to be abused.

    Yes, battlecry and I myself want everyone to believe what I believe. That isn’t a bad thing. The dividing line between us and what you are making us out to be is that we aren’t going to stick a gun to your head. You have a choice, we have a choice.

    Comparing us to Nazis is a….well it’s ridiculous.

    I love you and Jesus loves you even more and I hope you see that and if you want to see what it’s all about, come to Onfire Youth Ministry sometime.

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    By hughrefner, December 23, 2007 at 10:58 am Link to this comment

    Fascism has come to our country as a cross wrapped in a flag

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    By Paul, December 18, 2007 at 8:31 pm Link to this comment

    This is a good flurry of banter on this old web article.  Was there a recent BattleCry indoctrination session or campaign program?

    I hope you young folks can come to some understanding within yourselves over these important matters.

    The current best conclusion is that there are no gods in reality, since there is no indication of them in the observable world.

    All of what is presented as ‘gods’ by folks like Ron are based on ancient literature - hardly a good place to lead a serious search for gods.

    Some of y’all seem to think that if part of your goals are considered moral, then the whole scheme is moral.  You are fooling yourselves, just as your leaders intended.  You are sheep with good intentions and a philosophy that is anchored in shifting sand.

    It does not matter to the leaders what you think or how you get along.  It only matters what you can do to further impeded the progress of civilization.

    Let’s just hope this latest wave of religious ignorance and blind-following does not do too much damage to our young folks and our secular society.

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    By cade yates, December 18, 2007 at 3:22 pm Link to this comment
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    Hey rob now I just want to say one thing when you burn in hell for not believing the word, now yu might know this but i’m 13 but my knowledge is more than yours because I will be risen into heaven when the end comes but you will be on earth dying and suffering now I’m a sourthern babtist who been raised by men who fought to keep me free not only on the battlefield but in the board room my pastor has stood up to the churchs that are wrong in there beilfs he has been almost fired by the higher powers for speeking against them also I’ve been raised by women who are not bad. now rob listen to me go to church try to stay in church and watch 2 movies left behind,and the passion

    god bless you

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    By taijiya, December 18, 2007 at 2:16 pm Link to this comment
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    I am a christian I Am sick of all of you people who think!!!

    I’m sure you are.  wink

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    By Rob, December 17, 2007 at 8:22 pm Link to this comment
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    Greg makes an excellent point.

    Where are the Battlecry soup kitchens? Where are the Battlecry burn clinics? The Battlecry fundraisers for homeless shelters?

    Seems incredibly stupid rock concert-sermons and ironic counter-counter-culture/counter-marketing merchandise has the lion’s share of their money

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    By cade yates, December 17, 2007 at 4:02 pm Link to this comment
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    I am a christian I Am sick of all of you people who think!!!you know god ,who think you know about me about my family ,about my friends ,about my group of so called the next worlds problem what about the muslims that kill our soldiers and attack our peole
    we might be radicals to you but we are nothing compared to that al quade,hesbala,and other terrorists organisations now compare us to those guys would you rather us have a concert or kill thousands of inncent people now you dicide and try to go to church p.s. sunsara taylor may god have mercy on your soul god bless you

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    By hughrefner, December 16, 2007 at 6:56 pm Link to this comment

    This is just such a historically classic situation and group.
    I looked up his teen bill of rights on the battlecry website. I also looked up some info on MR Luce. His degree is from oral Roberts u. The Roberts family and the so called university are having some value, Morals, fidelity and character issues these days.

    Let’s start with a few excerpts from this so called bill of rights.  I find this a very insulting reference also. All our military take an oath. Not to god, Jesus or the president but to our constitution!!! The law of the land, many forget this.


    “It’s time for us to be heard. It’s time we stand up for what we believe and declare it for all. This is our proclamation. And these are our rights as a generation of doers, destined to create positive change.  We stand as one, and with this Bill of Rights, “

    There is only one bill of rights in this country. The rest is free speech. Ron and his followers have as much right as any other citizen to state their beliefs.


    “We will ignite a revolution.”

    Ah treason or an attack on our constitution as it stands today.

    “Not on convenience, but on character,
    Not on what is easy, but on what is excellent”
    Based on what and who’s? Oh I know Ron’s intereptation of the bible or maybe Bill and Ted’s excellent adventure.

    “When activists seek to remove God from our schools,”
    The law of the land is no prayer in schools. Abortion is legal too.
    Then if you oppose these laws and the judges that defend the rights to them, You are the activists!
    “We will reach out with compassion to the hurting and less fortunate, both in our society and around the world.”
    Has the ministry taken a bus of teenagers to New Orleans or anywhere else to help out? Or have you only been to events that support Ron Luse and his ministry?  Please send me proof of any Real humanitarian work. Not Christian recruiting or money raising work.
    “Not on what feels good, but on what is good”
    Ok again in whose book of what is good?
    Oh I know do today what feels good tomorrow.
    “Not on popularity, but on principle”
    Whose principles? Oh yeah god. Who’s the interrupter?
    Hitler had principles too.

    “We recognize that God, our Creator, is the source of all truth.”
    You’re entitled to that opinion but it is not a proven truth.
    “We will live with honor, always striving to do the right thing, even when it is unpopular. We will be honest and truthful in matters large and small, regardless of the consequences.”
    Whose honor? Honor like the samurai or the Islamic idea of honor based on the bible. Yes Islamic honor is based on the Old Testament.
    “We will respect the authorities placed in our lives, even though some may not live as honorably as they should.”
    This sounds like something Jim Jones said. What a great excuse to abuse young people in one manner or another. All the great evangelists have fallen back on this when they get busted.
    “We will work to see that every person has the opportunity to see and hear about the true nature of our God.”
    The Satanists and every other religion have the same rights as you now. Sounds like battle cry wants everyone to be of their belief and wants the government to back them. They love the red flag like Nazi’s and communists. They are going after the countries youth like the Nazis and communists too.

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    By Nobdy, December 16, 2007 at 3:15 pm Link to this comment
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    Just a video I think people should see, it bears a well meaning message for anyone who reads, writes, and is affected by this group, and those who have read this article.
    http://www.dotsub.com/films/helloangry/index.php?autostart=true&language_setting=en_1601

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    By Whatever, December 16, 2007 at 3:06 pm Link to this comment
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    Poetry???  Oh come on…..Heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual…it’s all part of nature.  Don’t believe me?  Go watch the monkeys at any zoo you go to.  Or the walruses, or cats, and dogs…oh, rabbits too.  To some humans, homosexuality is an abomination, to the rest of the animals on this rock, it’s all part of their social structure, and most importantly, population control.  So if homosexuality is such a horrible thing, and against your god’s will, then why do “his creatures” also display acts of homosexuality?  The devil maybe?  But why, oh why, would the devil waste his time and energy on animals?

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    By Kathryn Borkowski, December 16, 2007 at 4:11 am Link to this comment
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    You Are Heterosexaul

    As the sun of the earth must rise

    To give sustaining warmth, light and life

    The Son of man must rise

    For he has a purpose too

    To rise up and bring forth life

    With all that God has given him

    To honor and protect

    To defend the blood of his offspring

    To give and receive this love

    It takes a heterosexaul

    The blueprint of the Creator

    You are heterosexaul

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    By Greg, December 15, 2007 at 8:10 pm Link to this comment
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    It is amazing to me that an organization that claims to be a loving god that provides freedom and choice could withhold that from its own followers. By restricting internet access, dating and the length of women shows that they are doing more than trying to “heal” people but withold there freedoms. To preach and protest against peoples love for each oher and commit people to being wrong instead of reaching out there hands with love. They claim to follow Jesus, a man who never judged or gave rules to follow but opened his heart no matter who you were or what your beliefs. He was friends and had love for homosexuals, prostitutes, drug users, and criminals. Never requiring change but hoping for it and working towards it. Battlecry should be using there time and energy to end poverty, hunger, disease, etc. not just enforce there ideals on my life and my culture. I do not need laws or rules to show me how to be a good person, but love and examples of that love to show me what we should be doing with our time on this Earth. In your words, may god help Battlecry and may he show you the way to being an example of light not a executioner of the darkness

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    By Anonymous, December 11, 2007 at 12:31 pm Link to this comment
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    I suppose it could be called intolerent, just as the mother who spanks her child for stealing is being “intolerent” of his ways.  But nazi?  Come on.  As a follower of Jesus Christ, would I persecute a homosexual?  No.  Is it wrong according to the bible?  yes.  I would gladly take the homosexual’s persecution, even if it meant death, that they might live another day with the opportunity of learning what I know to be true.  It’s hard to understand when you’re on the outside looking in.

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    By Eva, December 11, 2007 at 8:34 am Link to this comment
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    So I am part of Teen Mania.  And all I want to know is if you have ever been to a BattleCry before writing what you did.  And just so you guys know, you can’t believe everything that you see in the news.
    If you have been to one to get ligit info, good.
    If not, that’s what I thought.

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    By Rob, October 26, 2007 at 8:47 am Link to this comment
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    Battlecry won’t burn in hell. No one deserves hell. “Hell” is one of the most asinine and damaging creations of the imagination.

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    By ian, October 25, 2007 at 8:35 pm Link to this comment
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    battlecry just wants to hold everyone back. i mean, its not as if God himself wrote the bible, but a bunch of guys in Turkey did. you cant govern using the bible. and to comment on my earlier comment, all those in battlecry obviosly want a neo-nazi style of living.

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    By brandon, September 13, 2007 at 1:24 pm Link to this comment
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    yeah, ummm… Ron luce isn’t a christian terrorist, he isn’t facist and he isn’t like hitler. how dare you say that he deserves to burn in hell, thats not even right. Would you like me to tell people that YOU deserve to burn in hell???

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    By sarah, September 1, 2007 at 2:41 pm Link to this comment
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    I gave up Christianity to follow Jesus Christ. Lord Jesus, have mercy on us, sinners.

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    By juicy cutlets, August 26, 2007 at 12:44 am Link to this comment
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    where are all the lions?

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    By joe, August 24, 2007 at 10:53 pm Link to this comment
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    you are most right about teen mania and battle cry, to me they seem like nazi’s almost with their pure ways ron luce in the cnn special gods warriors even says purification is the only way to live right to me that sounds so much like the nazis did ron luce is just another hitler, he throws his hand up in the air and all of his mindless followers do also

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    By ian, June 2, 2007 at 12:58 pm Link to this comment
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    battlecry are just christian terroists. they should all burn in hell. God dosent want you to hate a certain type of person cause their different, they should have theior eyes opened

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    By jon, June 2, 2007 at 12:52 pm Link to this comment
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    battlecry are just as bad as the islamic terroists. they just want to kill everyone whos different. they’ll all burn in hell assholes.

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    By isabela, May 31, 2007 at 6:14 pm Link to this comment
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    you know the bible warned us of this time…when the world would be against us and wat is right..but you know what? so wat if this article is from 2006, things that happened then is still happening now, teenagers coming suicide, or shootings at school, family problems, abuse, drugs, depression, broken homes, guys the list can go on and on and on! the only real solution is JESUS! thats all i can say! i love Him, his my savior my ny everything,it doesnt matter what the world says..i’ll stay strong…no we’ll stay strong! this is our generation! we will give them back to God!

    Jesus loves you guys (matter how cliche tht might be..its true) i’ll be praying for Battle Cry, as always!! i hope you will too!!

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    By Rob, May 18, 2007 at 12:34 pm Link to this comment
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    I agree about the piss-poor grammar coke is good, but that’s what is to be expected when you get a bunch of adolescent sheep trying to sound intelligent :D

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    By Rob, May 18, 2007 at 12:28 pm Link to this comment
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    The good that a handful of Christians have done is outweighed by centuries of destruction of non-christian cultures, suppression of scientific research, usurping of government, persecution of homosexuals, subjugated status of women, denial and repression of human nature, propagation of guilt, fear, ignorance, superstition, etc.

    Either way, the theocratic bandwagon has obviously come and gone and this debate is boring to me. Good day to you all

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    By onfire, May 17, 2007 at 10:24 pm Link to this comment
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    Me too Darkslaye!! I don’t see the point in arguing with someone who is so dead set in their ways. Personally, I have no use for know-it-alls. Sorry we couldn’t agree, Rob, but…God bless you anyways and have a great life.

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    By coke is good(:, May 17, 2007 at 6:52 pm Link to this comment
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    read 70439.
    typing error.
    thought i would point that out.

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    By coke is good(:, May 17, 2007 at 6:47 pm Link to this comment
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    umm are dictionaries not used when writing these? some people need to get their word usages right before making uncertain ‘certain’ statements.

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    By Darkslaye336, May 17, 2007 at 8:57 am Link to this comment
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    Rob…your really ticking us off, please stop, onfire, don’t let him get to you, I have been called “a little ****” before, I experienced worst smile. But man, Rob, all you are proving is that you are bitter and you want to look like your right. I know how your heart is, it is black, it is under chains. I know I won’t get into their. But I can prove you are taking it to far and telling white lies. I want you to do me a favor. Look at all the things christians did in the world, now I want you to see how much things aethiests have done in the world. Christians have done more good then aethiests. So it seems silly that you guys are looking at the bad from our hearts. Besides, if we were facists, you would be a “Christian Facist” by now smile Anyways, I am going to be leaving this board. Everytime I head on this, I get some jerk calling me wrong and trying to prove it. BYE!

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    By Rob, May 17, 2007 at 8:34 am Link to this comment
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    How old are you onfire? 16? 17? The sum of all human knowledge and experience resides in someone who hasn’t even finished high school?

    I’m 26, I guarantee you I’ve been through more, seen more and had to deal with more things than you have.

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    By onfire, May 16, 2007 at 10:25 pm Link to this comment
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    OK. That’s enough, Rob. Trying to prove your stupid point is one thing calling me or my friends a bitch is another. I’ve had enough of that in my life. Do you think my life is a frickin’ bed of roses? ‘Cause it’s not. I’m dealing with more now than I ever have, what with high school, relationships, and other things. So don’t tell me I’m whining. I’m NOT whining. I’m telling you how it freakin’ is. You shouldn’t assume my life is perfect that I’m WHINING. If you’d been thru half the stuff i’ve been thru you probably wouldn’t have made it. so don’t you DARE ever call me or my friends that again, K?

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    By Onnah, May 16, 2007 at 9:44 pm Link to this comment
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    Wow…I’ve never had so much fun reading people’s arguments…It’s the blind leading the blind. 

    And seriously, what good are threats and insults on a monitor screen????????

    I’m done here, this is no fun anymore.  Seriously people, do what I’m gonna do and do something OTHER than spend all this time ranting on a keyboard.

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    By onfire, May 16, 2007 at 9:13 pm Link to this comment
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    exactly, darkslaye. I think you’re dealing with matters you don’t know a thing about, Rob. Would you writean essay about something you didn’t have a clue about? B/c when you’re arguing with us about our beliefs it is basically the same thing.

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    By Rob, May 16, 2007 at 7:56 pm Link to this comment
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    You’re getting ticked DarkSlaye? OOOOOO SCARY! PLEASE DON’T HURT ME.

    Give me a friggin’ break, you two claim you are being “insulted” when all I am doing is CHALLENGING the claims you, your religion and your organization make. You’re basically becoming whiny little bitches and if you are going to become High Priest Ron Luce’s shocktroopers for theocracy, you need to toughen up!

    I can comprehend what I’m taking on DarkSlaye, I’ve been taking it on for quite a while now. It’s a 2,000 year old institution which I am willing to stand against, much like you and your Battlecry comrades are willing to stand against internet porno, Victoria Secret ads and this pop culture you claim to be at war with.

    It seems the kitchen’s heat might be a bit too much for you guys.

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    By Rob, May 16, 2007 at 7:42 pm Link to this comment
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    “Which GOD? Hmm there AREN’T any other gods that I know of that are as powerful as mine. Come to think of it all the other gods are FALSE.”

    You’re half right….ALL gods are false. All people are atheists in respect to other gods, some of us just go one god further.

    According to the Hindu or the Zoroastrian, it is YOU who follow a false god. But according to the Muslim, it is they who worship a false god.

    The cycle continues, and no one seems to realize “Wait a minute, why is that I believe in this god but the dude in this other country worships a different one and the guy in this country worships the same one but goes by a different doctrine than me?”

    Gods automatically disprove themselves if they are exclusive to one culture

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    By Darkslaye336, May 16, 2007 at 5:48 pm Link to this comment
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    ROB! Your being a jerk! Did you seem to notice that we never insulted you BUT YOU WON’T STOP INSULTING! I want you to stop this silliness before SOMEONE is hurt emotionally. I have dealt with more people like you then you have with people like me. I can tell you also,  ALL of them belive they are right, ALL! Now, I went through alot of failure. (ever got half of your math wrong in one day? smile ) But did I got bitter? Did I say “I’m never going to do math again” or anything like that. Now, I am expecting people like you to come up in my life. But what I can tell you, all of them are bitter, never happy, always angry at christians as if we screwed up their lives. So why don’t you quit these comments before I get ticked. Your taking on something to big to comprehend.

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    By onfire, May 16, 2007 at 5:28 pm Link to this comment
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    I found your comment pretty humorous, actually, Rob. You can go around talking smack to everyone else but when somebody gives you a taste of your own medicine and tells you how pathetic you really are, you get ticked off. I could send you a link to a youtube video giving the names of the evolutionists (not a “world”, as you say?) but I can’t remember what it was called. I will keep looking though.

    Which GOD? Hmm there AREN’T any other gods that I know of that are as powerful as mine. Come to think of it all the other gods are FALSE.

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    By Rob, May 16, 2007 at 4:33 pm Link to this comment
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    onfire, the only pathetic arguments here are yours, they are laughable and tragic. I notice you mention various “evolutionists”(not a real world, by the way), yet you don’t seem to list any of them by name. So who are we talking about here? Gould? Dawkins? Care to list any holes in the evolutionary theory aside from the fact that it does not subscribe to the Genesis creation myth?

    Yeah, I’m sure that the reason those folks cling to their gathered data, researched theories and countless pieces of evidence is because “they’re not willing to give their life over to God’s hands”. By the way…..which god are we talking about here? There’s quite a few. Zeus? Odin? Krishna? Mithras?

    Sorry onfire, but deep down I don’t buy any of this superstitious crap about some omniscient, omnipotent, culturally-exclusive patriarchal being who worries about things like two women having sex or pop culture or whether or not people work on the Sabbath. I know you’d like to think I’m holding out just for the sake of rebellion. Sorry, but I value reason, logic and critical thinking. I don’t value mysticism and ancient, outdated fairy tales that are little more than cultural product.

    Here’s an example of creationist arguments via Battlecry getting bitch-slapped by reality
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1CTWmtczn4

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    By onfire, May 16, 2007 at 2:25 pm Link to this comment
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    Rob. Hmm. One question. You included my quote about being homeschooled. What does that have to do with anything? There have been quotes taken STRAIGHT from evolutionists, quotes that say that it is either one or the other, creation or evolution. There have been quotes from these evolutionists, saying that evolution is impossible. One guy actually said that, but went on to say that he would still rather believe in it than creation. There are a lot of scientists like that. The only reason they keep holding on to their silly arguments is b/c they know if it’s true, their lives have got to change and they’re not willing to give their life over to God’s hands. I know it’s true, I think deep down YOU know it’s true, and so does everyone else. So don’t come to me with your “ass backwards” stuff b/c I know in my heart what is true and did you hear that, Rob? I KNOW. Whether or not you want to believe it is YOUR business so don’t come to me with your pathetic arguments anymore, OK? I KNOW Jesus is who He said He was, I KNOW that. There is scientific proof! There were something like 400+ prophecies concerning Jesus in the Old Testament. But since you don’t believe that, I’ll just say prophecies about the Savior. Every single one of them was true in Jesus except for the ones that haven’t been fulfilled yet, the ones that concern Him coming back. If you don’t believe the ones such as the ones that are in Isaiah 53 let’s go to some other ones such as the prophecies that the Savior would be born in Bethlehem. Is that just coincidence to you that He WAS? Someday my Jesus is going to come back. You’ll see His face Rob. You’ll see His face and you’ll wish that you would have believed. That’s all I have to say for now.

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    By Rob, May 16, 2007 at 1:26 pm Link to this comment
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    “About evolution. It has been scientifically disproven so many times. I am homeschooled and we use Christian science curriculum.”

    Ok, “homeschooled” and “Christian science curriculum”........therein lies the problem.

    Go to any gathering of respected scientists and ask if evolution has been “scientifically disproven”

    Onfire, do you have any idea how utterly ALONE American creationists and intelligent design advocates are in the greater developed world? There’s the old saying “Only in America…..”, well only in America are people still wrestling with this silly issue and giving credence to bogus psuedo-sciences like intelligent design.

    Outside of America, people got over it LONG ago. I’ve lived in three countries. You will not find superstitious knuckleheads in, say, Austria or Norway who are pushing for creation “science” to be taught in schools. You will not find bogus studies and idiotic counter-arguments to evolution that are rooted in biblical concepts that recieve tax funding in Japan, Sweden, or even our northern neighbors in Canada.

    The rest of the Western and developed world LAUGHS at us for continuing to find ways to uphold the Genesis myth and disprove evolution, despite OVERWHELMING scientific evidence that people seem to pretend does not exist. Utterly tragic and ass-backwards

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    By Rob, May 16, 2007 at 1:10 pm Link to this comment
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    As I expected you refuted these claims. Sorry, but referring to slaves and servants in the Old and New Testaments is not metaphorical, it is literal. Slavery was of the norm back then. Protestant and Catholic colonial powers used those very passages to defend the enslavement of blacks and indigenous peoples.

    People cherrypick the Bible. They extract what they consider to be the good points, and neglect the bad. When someone confronts them with the bad points, they either look the other way, change the subject, or say that they have merely been misread. Of course, if people didn’t “misread” the Bible there would be no reason for the myriad of Christian sects(Presbyterian, Pentecostal, Methodist, Greek Orthodox, etc) to exist today.

    So, I guess I should read a little harder then? How silly. Often when I debate Christians about the Bible, they merely say I need to read it more. What they are basically saying is “You need to believe it”

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    By onfire, May 16, 2007 at 9:27 am Link to this comment
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    Your comments make me sad, Onnah. You say you believe in God. James 2:19 says “You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe - and tremble!” I know the concept of Jesus is hard to imagine. But…he DID come to life. Some “Christians” say that he didn’t really die in that tomb, that he passed out for 3 days and was revived on the third. But if Jesus didn’t DIE there wasn’t a victory. No one could have survived those wounds that he had. The Trinity is hard to imagine sometimes but…it’s kinda like a 3-leaf clover. Three different leaves on one plant. I wish I could help you to see the truth, but it’s a decision you’ll have to make on your own.

    About evolution. It has been scientifically disproven so many times. I am homeschooled and we use Christian science curriculum. In my Freshman year we learned SOOO much about all this stuff that we have been discussing on this site. The Dead Sea Scrolls, evolution, etc. IDK if you have ever read the book “The Davinci Code: A Quest for Answers” by Josh McDowell. It has a lot about the Dead Sea Scrolls, etc. It is from a Christian viewpoint (Josh McDowell was an evolutionist that set out to get evidence that there was no God and ended up coming to Christ through that.), but you might at least find it interesting if nothing more. Also, here is a link about The Davinci Code, Dead Sea Scrolls, etc.
    http://www.planetwisdom.com/seanmcdowell/davincicode.php

    Anyways…God bless you onnah. Have an awesome day!

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    By Darkslaye336, May 16, 2007 at 8:00 am Link to this comment
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    Onnah, I know how you felt having many questions and no one to answer. I know it can starve you, this is how I kept my faith. I was one of the lucky ones, my mother is a teacher to newly weds so she knows alot answers smile. But I’m sorry that non of us answered your questions :’(. Onto the Jesus and being JUST a prophet. Sorta sounds like Jehovah Witnesses, WITH A TWIST! smile. Now, I am not going to bring science into these topics so I am just going to stop talking smile

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    By Onnah, May 15, 2007 at 11:51 pm Link to this comment
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    Actually I do believe in God.  I just never believed in Christianity.  Kinda ironic considering that my grandfather’s was a preacher with the Assemblies of God here in Texas for the past 50+ years.  His name’s Rev. Dockray if you ever wanna look him up.  I spent my whole childhood sitting in the choir like a good little girl.  But I had questions no one wanted to answer.  I always felt a presence in the church.  Not a bad one, just a presence.  One that let me know that I did not belong there. 
    God is God is God.  No matter what you call or how you percieve God.  Jesus, however, was NOT God.  God is omnipotent and immortal.  Nothing immortal can die, they just keep on ticking.  Thusly, anything held in a corporeal body is therefor mortal, thus negating the notion that Jesus was God.  It’s blasphemy.  Jesus was a great JEWISH prophet and christianity didn’t even surface until..what…200-300 years AFTER he died.  No stories were written about Jesus until at least 150 years after his death.  And if there ARE scrolls written about Jesus during or directly after his death, please let me know where I can go to read them.  I love reading that kinda stuff. 
    oh, and i don’t believe in heaven and hell.  i believe in reincarnation.  we create our own “after-life” through the actions we carry out this time ‘round. 
    also- did you know that when christianity first gained popularity, there were 7 different versions of it.  out of those 7, 5 believed in transmigration of the soul and NONE believed that Jesus was a “god”.  they revered him as a prophet.  he was voted into his godhead during a great council meeting where the 7 sects were condensed into one and the various religious books floating around were condensed and edited into one big book.  thats because there was so much confusion among the churches as to what to preach because they were all saying different stuff and confusing people.  i THINK that’s one of the reasons why the dead sea scrolls were hidden, because they were to be destroyed because they didn’t make the cut.  but again, i could be wrong on that.  i’ve got so many tidbits of history floating in my head these days that i could probably host jeapordy on a regular basis.
    anyway…yes i believe God created the world and mankind and all that good stuff.  but i also believe that he did it using evolution. 

    the greatest miracles are done in such a way that no one believes you did anything at all.

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    By Darkslaye336, May 15, 2007 at 11:36 pm Link to this comment
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    Oh, and on number 1, thats a parable smile

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    By Darkslaye336, May 15, 2007 at 11:33 pm Link to this comment
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    Rob, This is what is says with 26 and 27, 25 He couldn’t pay, so his master ordered that he be sold—along with his wife, his children, and everything he owned—to pay the debt.
    26 “But the man fell down before his master and begged him, ‘Please, be patient with me, and I will pay it all.’ 27 Then his master was filled with pity for him, and he released him and forgave his debt. Way out of context you have it. 2.Ya can’t see a person’s past and know them. Also, only God is perfect, no one else is. 3. If you are bought, you have to work by this code. If you are good enough. Your master will set your free. (From Roman and Greek times smile) Like I said, you focus too much on the past and not on the present. Back then it was legal to own people. Now for something for you. John 13:4-5 4 So he got up from the table, took off his robe, wrapped a towel around his waist, 5 and poured water into a basin. Then he began to wash the disciples’ feet, drying them with the towel he had around him. Use your bible to read the rest of it smile

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    By onfire, May 15, 2007 at 11:16 pm Link to this comment
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    Rob…I’m sorry but you DID misunderstand those. The Bible says that we ARE to be servants. Does that mean we go sell ourselves into slavery?? no. It means we put others before ourselves. Kind of a principle of “leave the last piece of cake for someone else”. BUT…you do have to mean it with your heart and not begrudge them. That’s what those scriptures mean. People back then WERE slaves. Paul, being only human, couldn’t change their position. But he could tell them how to truly live for Christ.

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    By Rob, May 15, 2007 at 10:02 pm Link to this comment
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    Too bad these “lies” are coming straight from the Bible which I own Darkslaye

    Here’s a passage from the New Testament which describes people being sold into slavery because of debt:

    -Matthew 18:25: “But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.”

    Here’s a passage defending physical punishment for slaves and servants:

    -Luke 12:45-48: “The lord [owner] of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.”

    Here’s good ol’ Paul, formerly Saul of Taursus, on slavery:

    -Ephesians 6:5-9: “Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free. And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.”

    On proper conduct for slaves and their masters:

    Colossians 4:1: “Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven.”
    bullet   1 Timothy 6:1-3 “Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honor, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed. And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort. If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;”

    Would you like more proof? Or is now the time where you say “Oh well….you just misunderstood those/took them out of context”?

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    By onfire, May 15, 2007 at 9:04 pm Link to this comment
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    I didn’t tell you to back off with your opinions I said back off with the smart comments. It’s a lot easier to pick on someone online than it is in person. Stop being a bully, OK? That’s all I ask.

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    By Darkslaye336, May 15, 2007 at 8:01 pm Link to this comment
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    Look at us from our point of view. We are under EXTREME pressure. I go through pain everyday. I was on the verge of turning into a goth until I figured. “Hey, Life is Short” Depends on how you treat life. You be bitter, life is Crap, you have hope, Life is forever. Now please, to all of you against Christians. We are just like you, we want to be complimented and win arguements. We are not perfect and we will screw up at times. But you guys, are just blowing it out of proportian. Would you like it if I pointed out your faults everytime you screw up? Life would be so hard for you. At least I can find comfort when I hear that Jesus has been there and he knows how I feel.

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    By Rob, May 15, 2007 at 6:49 pm Link to this comment
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    Point is, I will not back off with my opinions because they are not “nice”

    Report this

    By Rob, May 15, 2007 at 5:31 pm Link to this comment
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    Oh…......“yes ma’am”

    Gimme a break. This is free debate forum. There’s a difference between challenging and attacking

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    By Darkslaye336, May 15, 2007 at 4:47 pm Link to this comment
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    Argh, really testing me here. What the crap is with this “sexual slavery and conquest”? Where do you draw your ideas from? The internet? YOU KNOW HOW MUCH LIARS ARE ON IT? Rob, please, stop lying and be careful what you say. THIS is our religion. All you are doing is coming in and taking from our souls without asking. Also, you said that missionaries have caused the greatest transgressions. HAVE CAUSED! Why must you all insist we are from the past and want to destroy you? Wake up from your lies and bitterness.

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    By onfire, May 15, 2007 at 3:01 pm Link to this comment
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    Rob - if you don’t have anything good to say don’t say anything at all. You mess with Darkeslaye and that is like messing with my brother. Don’t do that, K? Just wanted to get that clear. Thanks.

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    By Rob, May 15, 2007 at 1:43 pm Link to this comment
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    Considering you draw your ethics from a book that advocates sexual slavery and conquest, it’s a little hard to divorce christians from the dark roots of their faith.

    Missionary work doesn’t get a pass from me, sorry. Traveling to someone else’s country and helping to build hospitals or schools while simultaneously attacking and destroying the culture of the locals and replacing it with your own is not what I consider to be a good deed. Missionaries have committed some of the gravest transgressions in history.

    It seems you could use a little more research.

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    By onfire, May 15, 2007 at 1:15 pm Link to this comment
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    If there was a whole city I think that the relative of Cain’s was probably very distant. I think even today it is legal for you to marry something like your second cousin??? IDK…I never planned on it so I didn’t look into it that much.

    About the Bible. We all have our different versions but they are basically the same. It is amazing how much they worked to keep the meanings the same. OK…so just wondering. What ARE your beliefs about God?

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    By Darkslaye336, May 15, 2007 at 11:10 am Link to this comment
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    To Rob, Your whining about Battlecry and not doing any deeds. Battlecry is helping teens with problems, they aren’t missionaries. There is a part in Teenmania that sends teens out on missionaries (IF the teens so choose to go). Heck, one of my friends just went to Panama last year, and now he is going to New Zealand this summer. So please, would ya mind looking up stuff before you make claims. Thats what Sunsara Taylor is doing, making false claims. Don’t think of Christians from back in the medieval ages. Think of us now.

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    By Rob, May 15, 2007 at 11:05 am Link to this comment
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    It’s their choice whether or not they do porn. Whether or not I take issue with it, it’s not my life and not my decision, it’s hers

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    By Elizabeth Susan, May 15, 2007 at 7:00 am Link to this comment
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    People used to terroize African Americans and treat them like dirt.  They were hanged for the mere suspision that they committed a crime.  They held boycotts on buses, and many protests.  Then they were violently opposed.  Now, their heroic efforts for equality are applauded.  Are we to be like them? Are we as Christians, black AND white, to be violently opposed as they?

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    By onnah, May 15, 2007 at 2:00 am Link to this comment
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    sorry about the dude comment, its just a general term…that and really i wasn’t responding soley to you but to the readers in general. 
    ok so if Adam and Eve were the first created humans and all are descended from them then are you SERIOUSLY trying to tell me that Cain married his sister and/or neice?  No species can survive on two sets of chromosonal material alone.  Everyone knows what happens when a family inbreeds for too long.  Or did no one ever pay attention in biology?  and i hate to break it to you but they didn’t actually live that long.  they misinterpreted some stuff when they wrote that version.  or am i the only one on here that knows (from a rabbi AND a pastor thank you) that the King Jame’s version of the bible is around the 40th or so edition of the bible, give or take.  you want accurate?  read the dead sea scrolls. thats as close as you’re gonna get.  or the torah.
    people back then didn’t live any longer than they do now.  they just had different ways of telling age.  like by seasons.  divide 935 by 12, the number of full moons in a year and you get….77 years…wow.  how wonderfully…human of them.

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    By onfire, May 14, 2007 at 7:37 pm Link to this comment
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    Also I’d really rather you call me by my username or if not that cowgirl. I don’t appreciate being called dude.

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    By onfire, May 14, 2007 at 7:34 pm Link to this comment
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    onnah - you’re exactly right! There WEREN’T any other humans around to marry Adam and Eve. BUT…considering that while they were in the Garden of Eden, they DWELLED with GOd, we would assume God married them. Sex AFTER MARRIAGE must be pretty important assuming it is mentioned in only the second chapter of the Bible! (Genesis 2:24) “For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.” Did you see that?!? It says “and be joined to his WIFE”. Pretty cool stuff.

    About the land of Nod…Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden of Eden after the fall. And they had other children besides Cain and Abel. Seth (another son of Adam’s) is mentioned in Genesis chapter 5. ALSO…people lived CRAZY amounts of time back then. It says in Genesis 5:5 that Adam lived 935 years!!! So all the towns and stuff…they were descended from Adam. Cain probably would have married a distant relative.

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    By onnah, May 14, 2007 at 5:04 pm Link to this comment
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    Wait a minute.  God created sex to support intimacy and should only be done by a man and wife?  Ok…so who married Adam and Eve???  Where in Genisis say that Adam and Eve were “man and wife”.  where was the ceremony that celebrated their union?  They were two people that ran around naked and then had sex and then had kids.  Just like the rest of the cavemen runnning around…while I’m on the topic…would SOMEONE..ANYONE…please tell me where in the bible it tells the story of how god created the land of Nod that Cain went to to find a wife??? See I’ve read Genisis up down and backwards and the only people they writeabout…the ONLY ones he created was Adam and Eve…and then it says that Cain was cast out of the garden of eden and sent to the land of Nod to find a wife….WTF dude?  where did this place come from?  where did this new tribe come from?  if god created all the people then don’t you think it would have been a good idea for the writers of the bible to say that god created Adam and Eve and the people of Nod??? why did these tribespeople get left out until Cain had to find a chick?

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    By Concerned Youth, May 14, 2007 at 4:12 pm Link to this comment
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    I don’t think the point is whether or not you’re getting married. Think about it in this way: would you want to see your daughter or sister or even MOTHER to pose nude on the internet or magazines? This is from a totally non-religious standpoint, and not a “scare-me” tactic. But just think about it…all of those girls are daughters, sisters, even mothers, and people are looking at them in deemably inappropriate ways (said by most of society…because both Christians and non-Christians can think this is wrong). What if they were related to you? What if they were married to you? Would you like for other people to be looking at her like that?

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    By onfire, May 14, 2007 at 3:57 pm Link to this comment
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    Also, I never said that sex is a bad thing. God created sex to support intimacy and procreation. It’s only wrong when you take it outside of marriage.

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    By onfire, May 14, 2007 at 3:53 pm Link to this comment
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    Rob, chill out, OK? I wasn’t getting all ticked off at you. I will say that your arguments didn’t really make sense to me, but that could just be me.

    Report this

    By Rob, May 14, 2007 at 12:29 pm Link to this comment
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    Darkslaye:

    “But what are you doing to help them by whining about Battlecry?”

    How exactly is Battlecry helping this generation by whining about some outdated domineering religion and some silly imaginary god? Having worked with children in burn clinics, I can tell you Darkslaye that kids need deeds, not words and certainly not superstitious opiates to help them through the day. And also, why is marriage a priority for everyone? “You find a person to marry and when ya try to be “Intimite” with them. It comes into your head.” I suggest you speak only for yourself. My girlfriend of 5 years is the only person in my head during intimacy.

    onfire:

    “Porn causes men to look at women in a very sexual manner”

    Wrong onfire, HUMAN NATURE and being male causes men to look at women in a very sexual nature. Notice how you essentially equated the word “sexual” with a dirty word. As I said before, Battlecry does a disservice to young men and women by teaching them that their sexuality is wrong, unnatural, potentially dangerous and “sinful”. This is not to say that sex can cause harm, it can. But usually because the individual partaking in sex is not using their brain or using ethics or common sense. Some promiscuous girl getting pregnant at 17 or some high school junior getting an STD on a trip in Mexico does not automatically mean that this is everyone’s fate.

    Your “sister raped by porn enthusiast” scare-me scenario is pretty pathetic. I would channel my anger at the guilty invidiual, not the models he was looking at or the publication. How about if my sister was raped by someone who had never viewed pornography? Would you be able to cough up some scare-me counterpoint then?

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    By onfire, May 13, 2007 at 9:32 pm Link to this comment
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    Rob, I agree with Darkslaye completely. I would also like to add that just b/c a person views porn does not mean that he/she is a cutter. Porn causes men to look at women in a very sexual manner. Let’s say your sister got raped by someone who was a porn addict and couldn’t control themself. I imagine you’d be pretty mad at the person and probably wouldn’t think too highly of porn. Face it. Like it or not, porn is not healthy.

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    By Darkslaye336, May 13, 2007 at 4:16 pm Link to this comment
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    All I gotta say to Rob is that pornography screws up your future relationships. You find a person to marry and when ya try to be “Intimite” with them. It comes into your head. Besides, we are trying to reach the kids that go through all those troubles. But what are you doing to help them by whining about Battlecry?

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    By Rob, May 13, 2007 at 10:23 am Link to this comment
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    I continue to get a chuckle out of where Battlecry places their priorities. Apparently pornography trumps most other concerns as a dire and insidious evil that will consume us all. They, like most other fundamentalist christian groups, treat puberty and sexuality as a disease that needs to be abstained from, or completely done away with.

    I looked at my first pornographic magazine when I was 11, and this was before the internet was available to computer owners. Did my life spiral downward from there? Nope. Did I attempt suicide? Nope. Did I cut myself? Nope. Did I plunge headfirst into drug or alcohol addiction? Nope. Was I promiscuous? Nope.

    Battlecry doesn’t seem to get too uncomfortable about the fact that there are millions of children in this country with no access to food, shelter, clothing, education or health care. The more they claim that pop culture or a 16 year old looking at a picture of a naked woman online is the downfall of society, the more I will continue to laugh at them.

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    By Darkslaye336, May 12, 2007 at 10:45 pm Link to this comment
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    Wait a sec….Why are we listening to her? She is mainly one of those (dare I say?) “Loonies” who wants to have people look at her. Type “Sunsara Taylor” in Wikipedia and you’ll find “World Can’t Wait”. It clearly says “Some of the founders of World Can’t Wait are public supporters of the Revolutionary Communist Party including Sunsara Taylor, a writer for Revolution Newspaper, and long-time radical activist and journalist Charles Clark Kissinger”. Also, World Can’t Wait was sponsored by this “Revolution”. Do we want to have communists running this country or do we want free speech?

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