The original essay by Mearsheimer-Walt just pointed out the obvious: the national security interests of the USA should come before the interests of any other country. Hardly a controversial point to make!

The fact that this elicits howls and cries from the zionists tells us much: they are treacherous and should be removed from any decision-making positions within government.

What I see as the issue here is freedom of speech.
I don’t particularly agree w/the study, but I also have no problem w/them publishing it. Dershowitcz is an exposed liar & plagiarist & it’s curious he’s still taken seriously in academic circles. The outrage demonstrated by the “nutjobs” is the usual tactic of intimidation & ad-hominems. While our policies are NOT dictated by Israel, I do think we need to base our aid on their human-rights record which is abysmal. Maybe we should send the UN inspectors over there to get details on their nuke program…

Actually, anti-semitism IS the taboo.

For over 50 years we defended Western Europe against the Soviets at great cost…. Was it the European Lobby?

Or a bloody conflict and fifty years of US troops protecting South Korea against the North…The Korean Lobby?

No, just America siding with a democratic ally, as we’ve done with Israel.

And then there’s our Wasp Presidents - all signing onto our “special relationship” with Enland? Are they slaves of their ethnicity putting British interests ahead of Americans?

Or German American President Eisenhower risking nuclear confrontation by committing to defend GErmany (through Nato)  - Dual Loyalties, anyone?

Of course not - So why the hysteria when it comes to Jews supporting Israel?  Especially since polls show consistent 60-70 percent popular American popular support for Israel and low support for Arabs.  The truth is, by Mearsheimer & Walt’s loose standards, the “Lobby” is really the majority of America.

Mearsheimer & Walt needn’t agree with that support, of course, but why the need for ugly, McCarthyesque smears of dual loyalty, acting against American Interests, or lack of Patriotism.  Smears that the accused are not supposed to answer lest they be branded as part of the nefarious, “unpatriotic” “Lobby”?

In short, why the double standard?

Therein lies the real Taboo topic - Anti-semitism.  The “ism” we’re not allowed to mention.  Its as real as racism, sexism; and no, one needn’t be a card carrying Nazi to have their views clouded by it.

But the fact is, there is no valid reason why a Wolfowitz supporting Israel should be viewed any differently than a Reagan supporting England or an Eisenhower supporting Germany; and yet the double standard exists.

And until Mearsheimer and Walt deign to explain it away, the very legitimate criticism of anti-semitic skewing will hang over their “work”.

Is it possible that the war againt Iraq was all or partly about protecting Israel? How many of the neo-cons are Pro-Israel? Wolfowitz, Feith, Pearle, B. Kristol, I. Kristol et al

Most basically, the problem is, what do you do when you live in a neighborhood where you can either be bullied or be a bully? Mental health and human relations nostrums do not work; you know because you invented most of them. Trying to point out the obvious, that the other bullies want to kill you while you just want to limit them and discourage their hostility, is pointedly ignored by third parties in almost every discussion. That leaves you with the holding action of being a bully and shouting “Anti-Semitism” at people who are, in fact, usually talking nonsense or hate speech that is painful to hear.
The cost is, you don’t hear a lot (except when you hide your identity), and you risk losing contact with the minority of people who really are informed and reasonable.

Ms. Ivins, I agree with every single word in your article !  Especially, your observations concerning the Jewish victim mindset.  The immediate reaction and effrontery by those of Jewish heritage if concerns are raised about the Palestinians is ridiculous.  But, just like bullies running this country who proclaim it is unpatriotic to question the leadership’s decisions or policies, I find that many of my Jewish friends get testy and overly sensitive and truly think that everyone should rally around every Jewish cause - right or wrong.

A group I attended read The Blood of Abraham, by Jimmy Carter as a reference point for discussion.  It was appalling how angry my Jewish friends became and how aggressive their conversation towards other friends at the table who were middle eastern.  There was no give and take and no consideration for other points of view.  It was very telling.  Just as you have stated, I am pro Israel, but I am more importantly pro people.  That means the Palestinian are just as entitled to a homeland as anyone else.  It also means that such a small country as Israel should not be receiving the majority of america’s largesse.  There are many poor, homeless, hungry in other parts of the world.

You are a disgusting anti-semite! Any respect I had for you is completely gone.  Lots of groups and pacs try to influence American policy—why single out the AIPAC?

By golly, Molly, but I just heard Weekly Standard editor Bill Kristol say the other day that Israel was not really so much in favor of our invasion of Iraq. In fact, he said that as far as Israel was concerned, pre-invasion Iraq was not really perceived as a threat. That’s what he said.

Actually, I have for years felt as if the Israelis, and certainly the rest of us, might feel a whole lot better if we simply gave the land of Israel back to the Arabs (to include the Palestinians), and gave the Jews Florida instead.

Then, they could begin their history all over again by building a modern temple in Sarasota, or something.

Setting down Israel (in the post-war modern world) amidst all those Mohammedans wasn’t a particularly good idea to start with - more like patriarchal hubris.

As is always the case, name-call when you have no defense for your actions.  Unfortunately, that technique only confirms that you have no defense.  Years ago when I was young and standing on street corners with scrawly little protest signs, the common bluster from passing drivers was “Go back to Russia.” And then there’s if you criticize Bush etc. you’re “un-American.” If nothing else, all these indicate a profound lack of imagination.

It would be interesting to see if one could make a success of a journal or website that published would equal numbers of articles on either side of the Israeli-Palestinian divide.

Both sides have legitimate concerns, and yet, due to the polarization of news sources, these sides are being driven farther apart. One hopes that the fact that this makes even more news is an unintended cousequence of the natural proclivity of the fourth estate, but there does seem to be an ever-growing wing-nut market out there.

Why not have a forum that tries to present both sides of the debate and have reader feedback act to keep the balance?

“Many Jews are so accustomed (by reality) to thinking of themselves as victims, it is especially difficult for them to admit they have victimized others.”

It is a well-known psychological phenomenon that until you tend to your wounding you will wound as you have been wounded.

The Jews really need to come to the truth about how their God victimized them and killed them to force their worship of him.  The God they now worship is not the God of their people, for none at all would exalt him (Hosea 11:7). 

It is wholly understandable that the Holocaust was inspired by Hitler’s study of the Bible.  If you read Mein Kampf you will appreciate Hitler’s biblical gestalt. 

Because of the evil Holocaust people are afraid of being called anti-Semitic for confronting the tragedy of the Jews who bowed to the God that their people would not worship.  I, however, am not afraid of the label.  The most pro-Jew thing a person could do is call evil the people, Jew, non-Jew, who worship the God that terrorized the ancient Jews into promoting his regime of evil.  The Jews that we know today are not the Jews who courageously rebelled against this regime of violence, terror, bloodshed.
http://www.godisajoke.com/2006/04/18/bible-as-satire/you-dont-need-a-cryptex-to-crack-the-goddess-code/

Goddess Love you, Molly! It seems like anytime someone is in danger of being wrong and unable to come up with a decent argument, it is all too easy to yell racism. As always, it is great to see your point of view.

Dear Molly,
Thank you for all that you are doing for us. Your voice is greatly appreciated.
I’m a relatively obscure person but even I find that questioning the merits of America’s involvement in Israeli affairs and interests brings a really shrill and accusatory response from my jewish friends and acquaintences.
In one case I chose to forfit a mutually beneficial personal relationship rather then bow and remain silent.
I am an indigenous man. I know what it’s like to be a victim. Sometimes I kind of resent that one tribe has chosen to claim special status because their ancestors were mistreated.
Anyway Molly, you take real good care of yourself.

In the Spirit of Crazy Horse,

Art Durand AKA Whitebear

You disgust me.

YOU ARE AWESOME MOLLY IVINS!

WE MUST EXPOSE THE JEW TO ALL THE WORLD!

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!

Excellent article Molly!

If you or anyone else is really interested in bringing down the Jewish State and defeating the Jewish stranglehold on our government and media, come to http://www.stormfront.org.

HEIL HITLER!

Molly, incisive as ever; thanks so much!

This is truly an issue that requires more unemotional discussion, less reactionary name-calling. 

And I think you hit the nail on the head by pointing out that many of Jewish extraction may be so blinded by their own horrifying history of victimhood - and understandably so - that they cannot see their own acts of victimizing others.  On an individual psychological level, this happens all the time; those who have been abused are at the highest risk for abusing others.

Right after Reagan was elected, I was in a religious studies class on death and dying, and a guest speaker was a rabbi who talked about the holocaust.  I could not resist, even more than a quarter century ago, asking him if any Israelis recognized that they were committing many of the same atrocities on Palestinians that were committed on them by the Nazis.

To the man’s credit, he did not react like Dershowitz, but he was clearly taken aback.  Still, he acknowledged it was a good question that merited consideration.  As we all dispersed after class, he asked me to talk with him a little more about it, and seemed genuinely concerned.

A quarter century later, we still do not see open signs of discussion of this problem within the Jewish community.  Individuals who try get the “self-hating Jew” label, while similarly Muslims who try to openly discuss their rejection of extremist actions risk threats from those extremists.

It is the same ancient dysfunction of “justified” vengeance after suffering unspeakable pain.  So few are willing to point out that there is nothing to be gained but eternal and perpetual bloodletting until we realize that this will never make the pain go away.

That feat is left to forgiveness.

Thank you, again and always.

Israel has admitted the problem, but did not create it. If one goes back to the first war between Israel and the Arab League, Egypt and the UNRWA created the stateless Palestinean. Not Israel. The Arab League has been using the Stateless Palestineans for decades as fodder. While Jordan absorbed the residents of Trans-Jordan, Egypt did not.

To debate policy in the Mid-East, one has to look at the origins. It just wasn’t the Partition, but an active and ongoing policy of disenfranchisement of the Palestineans by the Arab League. It suits the League to have them without a state…

1948 - Two Nation-States were created. the world has forgotten that. and rather willfully, I might add

The American Israeli alliance is a one-way street.  It might be debatable but, if you believe it is anti-Semitic, you’re admitting it’s true.  If America benefits from the alliance we should hear about it.  Attacking folks like Molly is divisive.  Is that good for the relationship?  Anti-debate is anti-American.

We long for the day when Israel will be no more and no less important than say, Finland. We don’t worry about the Finland Lobby.  Hopefully some day we won’t have to worry about the Israel Lobby,  But now we do.

All I can say is, “Good luck! I hope you are successful.” ... that is, if you are trying to inject rational discourse into the discussion about Israeli influence on US policy ... here in these United States of America.

From my perspective you make a lot of sense, as did Mearsheimer and Walt in what I read of their work.

My personal observation echoes yours, “It seems to me the root of the difficulty has been Israel’s inability first to admit the Palestinians have been treated unfairly and, second, to figure out what to do about it. Now here goes a big fat generalization, but I think many Jews are so accustomed (by reality) to thinking of themselves as victims, it is especially difficult for them to admit they have victimized others.”

Thanks for attempting to pursue this discussion rationally. I believe we all are better off when we do.

After getting flack about this article I wrote earlier this year, I agree with this completely:

“In the United States, we do not have full-throated, full-throttle debate about Israel. In Israel, they have it as a matter of course, but the truth is that the accusation of anti-Semitism is far too often raised in this country against anyone who criticizes the government of Israel.”