There will not be an impeachment, this president can not go forward if the Democrats hold their ground, because of sighning statements and the veto why should congress put anything forward, maybe the congress had bad marks but to do anything with Bush is just a waste of time and people should see this side the Republicians are mad that they lost congress so rather than be the better person they will be the mean hateful corrupt people they are after all the matra is win at any costs which brings to mind will the elections be stolen again?

I know that some of you are hopping mad and want the whole administration “impeached “ or likewise.

BUT do you think that these people are such “starter” criminals as to leave a door open for their conviction? I mean do you take these people for Simpletons? or do you think that this is just a new game and these people are not so far experts at it or dont have the advise of “experts”.
If you think the above mentionned then you & I disagree.

In my humble opinion, the game was fixed and they knew what they were doing, maybe you & I didnt know what was going to lead to what BUT they certainly did and they still control the outcomes and future actions, such as implementation of certain new laws to come.

As far as my knowledge goes there is a certain mindset with in the inner circles of the govt which is mandatory to get into those high position jobs, I mean if you are not one of them then you certainly wont get into that office. so these guys been running the show since long and they are very well versed at what they do and this is exactly what they do.

I mean why would a govt in its senses cover up an attack on its ship eg USS LIBERTY ? ( the irony is it was “liberty” under attack and mum was the word)

then ask yourself how can a PRESIDENT BE SHOT DEAD and nobody knows exactly how and why? I mean its not like a bum got stabbed on the streets of NYC late one night, was it?

then did you notice that although UNO tried to stop attack on IRAQ but later after the war began there was a motion and it was sort of “permitted” or “legalised”. Can you get a traffic ticket and have it cancelled despite being at fault 100% and with plenty of witnesses?

then reading the recently declassified reports of the US agencies you will see that VARIOUS presidents lied, this GWB certainly isnt the first LIAR. Look up what lead upto the war on VIETNAM, KOREA etc, in case of Vietnam and Korea, A president went on national television to declare that “we, the innocent, have been attacked” and certain US forces personnel who were on the watch on the mentionned night did tell recently ( not way back then) that there was no such activity that night on board that ship, yet that was enough to cause wars that lasted for long, can you explain that?

if you keep digging the history you keep finding evidence that this is not something new and these is a very old team at work.
And of course, you would be NAIVE to presume that you are not on a certain list despite writing or reading these webpages that are not apart of CNN or FOX or the the governemets approved information channels.
So either your move better be a fast unpredictable one or none at all, and certainly discussing “impeachment” and “war crimes” on panels like this is certainly not a very secure plan and it will never ever result i anything except “GANGSTALKING” or etc etc of the individuals who dare to oppose the govt.

As far as my experience goes, some of my posting (that require 2 hours to show up on webpages due to each site’s posting procedures) have replies to my posts that show that the reply was posted 10 or 20 minutes after i sent it in and REMEMBER it takes about 2 hours for some sites to exhibit what someone sent in. and most posting do have the time stamp.

like they say “May you live in Interesting Times” I guess it simply doesnt get more interesting then in this age in North America and its affiliates.

many people have high expectations from these “impeachment” things BUT frankly i see nothing in it except chatter that makes you temporarily happy but lands you in stressful situations later.

So goodluck!

There is no pardon that can reach to the Hague.

John Dean make a good case that all the underlings could be charged and impeached from only the House of Representatives,and from that could never be allowed to work in government again.

At least they could reduce the number of folk to support the next attack on Democracy.

On the other hand if the momentum could be built, they should b definitely impeach, even if it is his last day. I will still not be amazed if Bush tried to stay on beyond his term, he has not shown any reticence to violate any of the rest of the Constitution.

If Bush is impeached and Chaney does become President by dafault, who will be the new vice president, and more importantely will the sighning statements the president has implemented still be used.  This President must be taken out of office, because he will veto all bills against his stand, and the congress will be again a do nothing cogress, it is thinking ahead to 2008, so what will congress do?  What the american people should realize is that their pay comes from taxes and they are waisting money all the time, the impeachment of Clinton was a waste of money, if this president did not have 9/11 we still would have going to war, this president wrapped his whole presidency on war and making the rich richer, and the war was designed to make Halliburton richer, I wonder would we have had no bid contracts if Chaney had not be the vice president, and I think that Bush could not think for himself which is why this administration looks like a past administration, except that daddyll Bush was a little smarter than junior, and a little bit taller.

Margaret from Vancouver, Washington

Impeach? Just file the article.
Why? ACCOUNTABILITY!
Unless there’s another way.

Impeach “W” you have Chaney.
Chaney resigns you have Condi.
A incubment running for President in 2008.

Once the mid-term elections have come and gone and assuming the Democrats secure control of Congress, we must demand impeachment, not ask for it. To sit back and tolerate the behavior of this Administration is to condone it.

I don’t agree with the argument that Mr. Cheney is a deterrent to impeachment. Heck, I half expect Cheney to be implicated during the process. But even if he assumes the presidency, he will be a complete lame duck, without authority.

Finally, once Bush is impeached, I would argue that there is compelling reason to arrest Mr. Bush and turn him over to The Hague, to stand trial for war crimes. Let this serve as a lesson to anyone else who would ever try to turn our republic into a dictatorship.

Mr. Dean makes a good practical argument for not proceeding with impeachment hearings but that does not necessitate that there be no inquiries whatsoever into this administration. The Iraq war and the role of oil in particular need scrutiny.  Surely, hearings can be held, witnesses called and the murky actions of this administration, both known and unknown, can be laid bare for the American people to see that they have elected and encouraged the most corrupt administration in our country’s history. Then, who investigates Congress?

Meanwhile, is there any chance those Diebold machines are going to allow the House to turn over?  If they steal another election, all bets are off.  We’re way overdue for a Tom Paine moment *grin*
John

I agree, job one is securing the elections, so our votes count for something.

::

In everything I have read so far about the possible impeachment of Bush, no one who tends to favor it has ever mentioned who will be president if Bush is removed.  Would it not be Dick Cheney? Even if we were to succeed in removing Bush, having Dick Cheney as president would be just as bad, if not worse.

Impeachment is too good for George W. Bush.  That would be like a slap on the wrist for killing one’s siblings.  This guy should be brought to trial in the Hague as a War Criminal.  Basically, he is no different than Saddam Hussein.  His tactics have been easily compared to Adolph Hitler and Joseph Stalin.  Who are we kidding?  This guy is a tyrant and he is destroying the fabric of American Constitutional Freedom which has been protected for over 200 years.

His high crimes are as follows:

1) Is conducting secret surveillance of American citizens using the highest level of technology available to anyone in the world, despite the fact that this is a flagrant and willful breaking of laws enacted by Congress to control such abuses of executive power.  Compare that to Richard Nixon who just spied on his “enemies”.

2) Lied to Congress about the threat of Iraq to US security by creating a bogus story of WMD.  Prior to this, Intelligence Agencies under the direct control of the President had already made an assessment which showed that there were no WMD.  Investigators in the country of Iraq who had direct access to facilities found no WMD.  The entire world knew that there were no WMD and yet the Bush white House lied to Congress and they lied to the United Nations Security Council about the bogus threat.

3) Used torture and secret prisons of torture against private citizens secretly taken from their country with absolutely no “due process”.  All they were accuse of is being “suspects” of crimes undefined and never given and opportunity to have their day in a court of law.  These people have been incarcerated and even tortured to death with absolutely no accountability by the Bush Administration.  This is direct violation of human rights and the military code of justice.

4)Killed innocent civilians on the pretext of trying to eliminate “suspected” terrorist leaders.  By dropping “smart weapons” on urban areas, the collateral carnage has been appalling.  Some estimates have over 100,000 civilian deaths in Iraq just by engagements between the US forces and suspected terrorist elements.  these tactics are not only inhumane, they actually have done more to create hatred of America in the world then any other act.

The Bush Administration keeps mentioning 911 as the rallying point for all these abuses of power.  About 3000 people died in the WTC from 2 planes being flown into them by a hand full of misguided fools.  Compare that to how many innocents have died in Afghanistan and Iraq and one realizes that George W. Bush is the greatest terrorist and threat to world peace on the planet.  Saddam Hussein should be considered “small fish” compared to this butcher and murderer of innocent men, women, and children.  And for what insane reason?  Nobody knows why this mad man is still loose.

Get him out by any means possible. The American public, as sad as it is to admit, has failed miserably in two consecutive elections!!! Are your citizens really this ignorant, or do they blindly follow the propaganda that the right-winged US media spews out. or is it that the majority of Americans don’t care who leads their country, or what happens in the world....as long as they have their SUV, Sunday Football, and Beer and barbques? You guys are pathetic excuses for citizens letting this administration in for not only one term, but two. he’s set the world back 200 years.

Editor:

I just sent in my comment, but chose words badly.  Can you correct?  I should have said we should go after Bush after he left office rather than after he quit.

I agree with John Dean.  The effort should be to
bring out what the Bush people have wrought.
A fake Impeachment which could not result in a
conviction in the Senate - and even if it did- would
leave us with Cheyney who as far as I can tell is worse than Bush.

But I am very pessimistic that our media will permit people to understand the enormity of what has happened.

Very few people understand that as a matters stand right now an agent of the President - FBI, CIA, Military etc. merely has to point a finger at any human being in the whole world, citizen or non-citizen, and declare that person an “enemy combatant” and eo instante (immediately) that human being has lost all rights including coming before a court, being advised of charges against him, having representation by counsel and according to the Bushies that human being can be held incommunicado, rendered to another government for torture or just disappeared
into secret CIA prisons. 

The Suprmeme Court on July 11 cast some doubt on these powers but as a matter of fact they are still being excercised with impunity until Congress legislates differently. 

Now it is true that YOU, dear reader are not likely to be arrested but that is not the point.  The point is the government can do this to you.  This means that every right you thought you had under the Constitution no longer applies.

How many citizens are aware of this?  Has the media expalined this to our citizens?  The answer is NO.

Furthermore I have to report that the people to whom I have pointed this out agreed this was not a good thing but were in no way excited or outraged
when I pointed it out.

So we have no Patrick Henry around to say things like “Give me Liberty or give me death”.  Apparently 9/11 has burned up the Bill of Rights with the NY Towers.

To this extent the terrorists have already won.

It’s sad to think that an impeachment attempt might fail on the basis of too few votes, just as it succeeded on the basis of enough votes last time.  I just hope that after he is out (if he doesn’t decide to stay and has enough votes to take that avenue)we will be able to verifiably demonstrate to the entire world what a total failure he has been, as a human being as well as a president.  How humiliating to this nation that we would allow such a man to achieve such a position.

Now that it is legal, we could have Bush detained and tortured in prison forever.

He is a threat to our National Security

The crucial first step is to get an investigation started—whether by prosecutor and grand jury or other official process—so that there is subpoena power to collect evidence, and a report that Congress can then consider and act upon.

Right now there are many indications of wrongdoing, but not on the official record of such an investigation.  There is no such investigator.  And why not?  For much, much less in severity and scale of allegations, there was such an investigation of Clinton.

J. Koch, I could not agree with you more. Since W is making an A** of himself everytime he speaks without the Q cards, just watch and enjoy the snowball pickup momentum as it rolls downhill. Remember, he was the trustworthy presidential candidate who was going to be the uniter NOT the divider etc. etc. etc. All that has vaporized and the “track record” is there for everone to see. The “war on Terra” bucket is full. I am hopeful that American electorate will remove their religious blinders, pull their collective heads out and do the right thing in Nov. I shudder to think what these nut jobs will do if they escape the “voters’ wrath” this Nov.

I suppose your comment exposes the collective “red neck” mentality that has taken over this electorate, mostly in the so called Red states.

On the positive side, all this nonsense is eventually going to make the world safer, for all.

A House controlled by the Democrats would shy away from impeachment.  First, their majority would be tiny at best.  Second, constituents might balk.  Most are sore about Iraq not because of its premise (kill some Ay-rabs in revenge for 9/11) but because the war has not gone well.  Ludicrous conspiracy charges that W or some secret domestic conspiracy caused 9/11 would also cloud and discredit the proceedings.  Everything would appear cracked or crooked.

The Clinton impeachment was, by comparison, slam dunk.  Marital infidelity irks the typical person and outweighs any alleged abuse of murky intelligence, insider contracts, subversion of the Constitution, or incompetence.  It is easy to incite TV viewers with clips of Willie n’ Monica cuddling.  Nixon looked suspicious even when he told the truth.  However, no matter how flawed the outcome, it is difficult to imagine “convicting” W of deposing a creature as odious as Saddam.  Besides, naming Cheney, Frist, Roberts, or even McCain as his replacement would not change prospects much.

No violence, please.

I have a lot of respect for Dean, but he has that conservative way of looking at things.  Despite what you hear, it’s not the conservatives who are passionate patriots.  In truth, are conservatives ever passionate about anything?  This country has been wronged egregiously and it needs to heal.  We need to investigate and reveal everything.  If there is a groundswell for impeachment, fine, go for it.  If there is simply understanding and resolution, I’m fine with that too (although somebody ought to kick Bush’s butt good either way).

Meanwhile, is there any chance those Diebold machines are going to allow the House to turn over?  If they steal another election, all bets are off.  We’re way overdue for a Tom Paine moment *grin*
John

I am not smart enough to agree or disagree with Mr. Dean. But I do feel there should be effort in establishing and correcting the official record for posterity, regardless whether or not impeachment goes forward.

John Dean’s arguments are sound against an impeachment. Sound, logical and correct.  But he’s still wrong.

The Republicans, in their arrogance and ignorance, learned NOTHING from the Nixon Impeachment. 

If John Conyers is smarter than Henry Hyde (and I know he is), he won’t try to stifle the Republicans on the committee as Hyde and Sennsenbrenner stifled the Democrats.

Conyers will follow Peter Rodino’s lead and let the Republicans question witnessess to their hearts’ content.  He’ll lead them down the primrose path the way Rodino did, give them enough rope to hang themselves, until the evidence ENSURES they cannot vote against articles of impeachment.  That’s what Rodino did--he had a TRUE non-partisan concensus. Hyde did not.  Rodino would NEVER have let the Articles go to the House floor without at least a couple of Republicans voting for it.  Hyde did the opposite.

Meanwhile, in the Senate, Trent Lott was too stupid and incompetent to figure out how to keep the Articles from reaching the Senate.  I cannot believe that Bob Dole would EVERY have let such losers of articles get to a trial.  Lott KNEW they couldn’t win the impeachment trial, he didn’t want it but he couldn’t prevent it.  Dole could have.

Inept, incompetent, and just plain mean Republican leadership lead to a TOTALLY partisan impeachment trial, one that failed.

I think Dean’s right about not impeaching if there’s no possibility of conviction. Instead, lay the groundwork for charges to be levelled after Bush is no longer president. Without the protection of office he’d be in jail or hanged so fast our collective heads would spin.

The nature of law in a republic demands that we indeed impeach this criminal and his staff. I have seen enough and my support is 1000 percent behind the effort. We as Americans deserve to see this. It will set the example for the next President. The Romans knew that the mob rules. I am part of that mob. I will join a march, I will carry the torch. I will strike the iron while it is red hot. I am a patriot willing to fight. I would rather die than see this continue in this manner. The loss of innocent life demands it. Lets take the White House back today.

Although I have a great admiration for Mr. Dean. I disigree with his reason of not bringing Articales of Impeachment against Bush. I hope that Mr. Conyers will not worry about political implications and do what is right for the country and file the Articales against the entire administration including Colin Powell. Our Country needs a good hot bath to remove the stench of this administration. I am a Viet Nam Vet. and I can tell you this, we didn’t lose the war in Viet Nam. What we lost was our Honor an Dignity as a Nation of Laws and Righteousness. Our Country is dying, and people must be held accountable sooner then later.

Gee, so many pat, trite reasons not to do the right thing.

Start acting like you live in a democracy!

Impeach the lying, murdering gangsters!

Now.

Even I, a political naif, can think of half a dozen reasons why it would be utterly foolish for the Democrats to advocate impeachment proceedings against Bush.  Impeachment is a colossal stinking contest, and I hope the pols learned to avoid getting to stinking contests with skunks.

He is so right about getting the facts before the public in order to get the groundswell of public demand for an impeachment of Cheney - Bush.[ Clinton did right about workfare; the Republicans want to undermine it .]

Unfortunately, while I would definitely support impeachment, it doesn’t look likely - particularly with only two years to go.

Unless the media launches an unlikely, massive information campaign against the president that gains public support for impeachment, we and the rest of the world will have to live with this monster we have for a president.

Moreover, the unanswered issue of Cheney as successor remains, unless he hopefully learns some humility in the impeachment effort, which is again unlikely, to me, considering that, 1. hope cannot a strategy, and 2. what I would easily his sociopathic attitude towards human beings as is what characterizes this administration.  The direction of these Radical Republicans agenda simply wouldn’t change.

Legislation will not force this murderous, corrupt administration out of power. 

Violence can.