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Ear to the Ground

Foggy Demands May Hurt Wall St. ‘Occupation’

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Posted on Oct 1, 2011
Flickr / _PaulS_ (CC-BY-SA)

Going into their third week on the streets, the protesters who make up Occupy Wall Street are gaining more and more attention from mainstream media. But with the new scrutiny rises an issue that the Los Angeles Times and The New York Times each touched on in features published this week: Protesters lack narrow, unifying demands.

Twice-a-day marches and hundreds of handmade signs are evidence that, while the protesters have seemingly boundless energy and enthusiasm, they also seem to be championing countless causes.

“Wake up!” some signs say, and “We are the 99 percent!” But also: “Justice for Troy Davis,” “Feed the poor!” and “Wall Street is killing our air, our soil.”

Some say the protesters’ lack of direction and tangible goals could be the one thing that keeps the still relatively small movement from becoming one that could actually galvanize change. —BF

Los Angeles Times:

On its website, Occupy Wall Street describes itself as a “leaderless resistance movement” drawn from people of all backgrounds and political persuasions.

“The one thing we all have in common is that we are the 99 percent that will no longer tolerate the greed and corruption of the 1 percent,” the website says. The posters in Zuccotti Park speak to the lack of a narrow platform: “End financial aid to Israel”; “End greed, end poverty, end war”; “No death penalty”; “Tired of racism.”

Some supporters of the premise wonder how far Occupy Wall Street can go in galvanizing others if it does not translate its anger into specific demands.

“I see something beautiful here. I’ve never had a more interesting political debate,” said Carne Ross, a former British diplomat who resigned in protest over the invasion of Iraq, and who now owns a consulting business in New York. But Ross, who stops by regularly to advise Occupy Wall Street, said it needs “far broader outreach” and a narrower message.

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IMax's avatar

By IMax, November 1, 2011 at 5:15 am Link to this comment

From New York to Montana to Arizona to New Hampshire to Massachusetts to California. This is not the way to effect change for the better.

-

Drunk 11-Year-Old At Occupy Missoula, Adult Arrested
MISSOULA COUNTY
http://www.nbcmontana.com/news/29545387/detail.html


Flier at Occupy Phoenix asks, “When should you shoot a cop?”
Copies of an “informational” letter were left on a table for protestors pick up [sic] and read during the “Occupy Phoenix” event at Cesar Chavez Park.  The presence of the letter was reported to the ACTIC by a Maricopa County Sheriff’s Deputy who had responded to an unrelated call and was alerted to it by another deputy working the event.
http://content.clearchannel.com/cc-common/mlib/3359/10/3359_1319803351.pdf

OWS Protesters’ Restroom Issues, Constant Noise Driving Residents Crazy
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/10/21/ows-protesters-restroom-issues-constant-noise-driving-residents-crazy/

Occupy Wall Street Protester Threatens Fox 5 News Reporter
Updated: Friday, 28 Oct 2011, 6:26 PM EDT
Published : Friday, 28 Oct 2011, 8:08 AM EDT
MYFOXNY.COM - A protester, angered by the presence of a news crew inside Zuccotti Park Friday morning, threatened to stab Fox 5 News reporter John Huddy. Police arrested the protester.
http://nation.foxnews.com/wall-street-protests/2011/10/29/fox-5-news-threatened-ows


Home » News » Crime
Woman charged with pimping teen recruited at Occupy NH rally
By PAT GROSSMITH
By PAT GROSSMITH
New Hampshire Union Leader
Published Oct 28, 2011 at 10:15 am (Updated Oct 28, 2011
http://www.unionleader.com/article/20111028/NEWS03/710289961

Oakland Police Department #OccupyOakland Press Release Oct 25, 2011
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/100688407/Oakland-Police-Department—OccupyOakland-Press-Release-Oct-25-2011

S.F.Chronicle

  The owner of Sankofa African Arts and Jewelry said that on the two mornings since protesters returned, her front doorway has reeked of urine.
  She said her business has declined by 80 percent since Occupy Oakland began.
  “I really, really want them to leave,” said the owner, who gave only her first name, Ellen. She has owned her business for 17 years. “What they are doing is making business worse.”
  A camp supporter overheard her lament and shouted: “You would have lost your business anyway with the way the economy is going.”
  Ellen burst into tears.
  Moji Ghafouri said business has gone down 25 percent at her Caffe Teatro. Protesters also smashed one of her windows.
  “I’m a small business,” she said. “If you’re against corporations or big business, I’m not them.”
  Ghafouri said part of the problem is City Hall’s doublespeak – like banning people from 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. and then letting people camp overnight anyway.

  “If they’re not going to enforce it, don’t say it,” she said.

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By Aubrey Clark, October 11, 2011 at 5:30 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The Wall Street protest has Americans struggling with just who these people are and what they represent. So, naturally, they are also questioning their true motivations. Many view OWS as a “spontaneous” extension of President Obama’s own war on the rich which seemed to have conveniently reached a crescendo just as the first protesters appeared on Wall Street.

Others suspect, along with many of the conservative pundits, that it is a George Soros-backed conspiracy to stoke the anti-capitalist flames. And, there are others who see it as a ploy by the unions to build up their stature and their ranks.

Due to the lack of a coherent message or rational demand out of this largely disjointed association of activists, Americans are having trouble accepting it as a pure, grass-roots movement with legitimate intentions. The circus like, and borderline violent atmosphere, as opposed to the serious Tea Party demeanor, raises skepticism that the Wall Street protest is nothing more than a ploy to distract the American public from the abyssmal job performance of the current administration. To comment or read more go here http://www.directbanc.com/about/

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By wanderingi, October 3, 2011 at 4:48 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Wait until the crowds begin to descend on DC, this
week.  Then you can talk about what OWS has
accomplished!  They got the rest of us off our
collective as…. I mean, couches!!  Well, at least,
most of us - those of you who just want to hear
yourself blab, enjoy your reality shows and check
back here to see what you missed.

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Samson's avatar

By Samson, October 2, 2011 at 12:50 pm Link to this comment

The “occupy” everywhere demand .... WE WANT OUR COUNTRY
BACK! 

That specific enough for you?  Of course, that’s what
Wall Street’s media arm doesn’t want to tell you about.

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Samson's avatar

By Samson, October 2, 2011 at 12:47 pm Link to this comment

This is of course what Wall Street wants.  After all,
it was printed originally by Wall Street’s media arm.

The protesters in Tahir Square had foggy demands too.

At this point, the protests need to grow.  Its too
early to have specific demands.  Heck, a lot of the
people who will join these protests aren’t even there
yet.  Do we tell people who come tomorrow that
‘sorry, its too late, you can’t have a voice in
saying what we want’

As usual, if Wall Street’s media tells you to do one
thing, then doing just the opposite is probably the
right answer.  This story is by the people who want
to keep ripping you off.

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bodhidharma's avatar

By bodhidharma, October 2, 2011 at 11:00 am Link to this comment

OccupyWallStreet already has coherent, specific demands, regardless of what the MSM says, easy to look up.  And they need to ally with the unions, for the good of both.  Their demands are very similar and their needs identical.  We need a united front. Don’t let the arrests become the story.  The story is that we are rising up to oppose corporate rule and a system that says that the rich can plunder the rest of us, break the law, and face no consequences.  Sign the petition to deny immunity to the banks by state attorneys general:
http://act.boldprogressives.org/sign/petition_conway/
This is important.  Negotiations are going on now.  Banks want blanket assurances of no prosecution for their criminal activities.  $20 to 50 billion in fines that will help people who got screwed on their mortgages are the bargaining chips.  Get informed if you don’t know this story.

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By ctavis, October 2, 2011 at 10:54 am Link to this comment

I agree that Occupy Wall Street needs no list of demands. The situation we 99%ers find ourselves in has been methodically built over many years by the corpocracy. They have quieted our voices, cut our wages, laid us off, denied us health care, kicked us out of our homes. They have bought and paid for our political class, who represent Wall Street not Main Street.  They have already stolen my American dream. But that’s not enough for them, they want my house, my health, my learning, my security, my existence. They have proven that they don’t care. They think they accomplished this themselves, that they are better than us.

The only solution is for their paper walls of protection and greed to start coming down. I doubt even they could enumerate the millions of regulations (or deregulations), bills, pay-offs and court decisions that made this situation possible. But it’s time to start dismantling.

What they need to know is that we won’t starve silently. Broke people can’t buy anything. And those of us who still have good jobs are also the 99%.

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blogdog's avatar

By blogdog, October 2, 2011 at 9:53 am Link to this comment

louiss123, can’t figure out which straw man is leading your charge?

On Libya, I write daily of the NATO war crimes and the Obomber/Cameron/Sarkozey war criminal troika leading the campaign to re-colonize Africa and consult for regular updates: http://globalciviliansforpeace.com/

As for Ron Paul, if no serious anti-war candidate replaces Obomber on the Democratic ticket, I’d risk whatever attempt Paul might mount to promote his Austrian-school economic philosophy, to vote for the only genuinely anti-war candidate on the stump - I trust him on his anti-war stance. Ending the global war of terror is the most compelling issue of all.

It’s hard to determine form your comment, but if you’re taking exception to specifics within the posted quote from Webster Griffin Tarpley, feel free to write him directly to voice it.  http://tarpley.net/speakers-bureau/

On your other points:

1. Unlike most corporations, being human, I recognize my human fallibility.

2. If the Tea Party is genuinely serious about reining in the MIC, we have a point of agreement.

3. Obomber never did and never will get my vote.

as for your hometown, Santa Cruz, like what I’ve seen and have colleagues and friends there - was there in 2008 to contribute to Eike Waltz, Sheila Halligan-Waltz’s polemic multimedia installation “OUT: A Shoutout of Painful Paintings, Sculpitti” - http://www.artofdemocracy.org/galleries/west/gallery_santa_cruz_mill.html - if you missed it, at the opening we presented a live excerpt from THE FALL 01 - http://vimeo.com/21358374

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John R.'s avatar

By John R., October 2, 2011 at 9:47 am Link to this comment

So blind are those whom fail to see.

Tina Susman of the Los Angeles Times, has failed a simple search, but more than
likely CHOOSE not to LOOK for the demands, like so many of you here at Truthdig.

OccupyWallStrret and OccupyLA and many cities across America are unified in our
demands.

Here is the link to the demands.

Instructions first:

Look for the MAIN MENU (left side of page)

Click on #Occupy Demands

http://coupmedia.org/

Yes it is that simple. You are capable of posting to this site which is significantly
harder than READING the demands. And try to remember, Sam Zell owns the LA
times. Zell also maintains substantial interests in, and is the Chairman of, a number of public companies listed on the New York Stock Exchange.

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By louiss123, October 2, 2011 at 8:10 am Link to this comment

Blogdog, the “crackpot school of Austrian economics”? Laughing as I guess
Obama/bernanke using the country’s credit card irresponsibly is just fine. There
has always been a left wing “protester” who can’t see beyond their own nose.
I live in Santa Cruz where I have seen hundreds of young students march on the
town to ‘save a particular tree’ that was supposed to be cut down by the city. My
friend who works for the city, tried to explain the tree was diseased and was
ready to come down on pedestrians.
The best example was the anti-war marches against both gulf wars by both
Bush’s. Thousands took to the streets being very passionate against the two
republican presidents. However when Clinton was bombing civilians in Serbia
and/or Obama drone attacks killing children..I just hear crickets.
You so called intellectual liberals will go to your grave just being an angry
person, never producing results.
Step one:are you willing to be wrong about your opinions:
2: are you willing to see where you have similarities with say..the Tea party?
3: are you actually going to vote for Obama again?
Have a nice day

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By Tobysgirl, October 2, 2011 at 7:36 am Link to this comment

mrfreeze, I heard chants of “general strike” at the demonstrations in Wisconsin, but don’t believe anything came of it.

When you can’t convince people (as I have tried) that when they spend money they are voting, you can hardly convince them to go on a general strike. My husband and I have realized that we are very alone in our decision not to patronize Walmart, Maine businesses that supported LePage for governor, etc. People want what’s cheap and shoddy, and don’t give a damn for the consequences.

And, please, don’t anyone write and tell me that we are comfortably off enough to make such choices. When we were living in poverty, we never shopped at Walmart. As my grandmother (a waitress) said, “Poor people can’t afford to buy cheap stuff.”

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By C.Curtis.Dillon, October 2, 2011 at 12:46 am Link to this comment

OccupyWallStreet:

Don’t sharpen your message. Everyone who’s been listening at all for the last 30 years knows what you’re fighting against. Why cater to the idiots in the media? They want you to create a coherent message so their financial pages can talk about the impact on GDP of your one or two demands, so their pundits can pick apart your list and try to destroy you. We know what you’re after and so do they. If you remain nebulous, you keep them off guard and confused. Keep up the pressure, don’t give up.

And, be very careful of the union participants. Don’t let them hijack your message. If your demonstration is seen as a union activity, it loses a great deal of support. Unions have their own ax to grind, their own crosses to bear and it has less to do with Wall Street greed and a whole lot to do with their own agenda. Don’t let them take away what you have started. They must be subservient to you and your objectives. If they cannot be held at bay, push them away. Stay pure and strong.

I’ll be leaving Ukraine pretty soon and I’ll join you and the October2011 activities once I clear customs. I’m in this for the long haul. Don’t give up!

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By traynorjf, October 1, 2011 at 11:54 pm Link to this comment

Strange. The MSM didn’t seem confused about the tea party’s demands

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By glider, October 1, 2011 at 11:00 pm Link to this comment

Occupy Wall Street looks to gathering steam through web social media and may only need a some further critical mass to become a movement if it is not there already.  There is plenty of general dissatisfaction to serve as the catalyst, and there is time to develop more specific agendas.  A big test will be if it can withstand more serious attempts to use the police to break them up.

Ultimately, meaningful change necessitates getting big money out of politics and the media, and developing a truly democratic election system to replace the current fraudulent one.  So I would hope some focus goes there.

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blogdog's avatar

By blogdog, October 1, 2011 at 10:38 pm Link to this comment

An Emergency Program for Anti-Wall Street Protestors:
Don’t Let Soros Hijack the Movement

Webster G. Tarpley, Ph.D.
http://tarpley.net/
September 29, 2011

Political mass strike dynamics have been at work in the United States since the
Wisconsin and Ohio mobilizations of February and March. Now, there are
demonstrations in lower Manhattan and Boston specifically directed against the
Wall Street banks. Another protest demonstration is scheduled for Washington,
DC, starting on October 6. Good: a political challenge to Wall Street is indeed
long overdue.

The Occupy Wall Street demonstrators are skeptical in regard to Obama. There
is no sizable constituency for Ron Paul, and the crackpot Austrian school of
economics is hardly represented. Above all, there is a desire to break the power
of Wall Street. This much is promising, but still not enough to win.

The demonstrations appear initially as leaderless groups, engaged in an organic
process of discussion from which specific demands are supposed to emerge.
But so far, these demonstrations have put forth no specific demands, reforms,
or concrete measures whatsoever to fight Wall Street. This is a fatal political
weakness. A movement that attempts to go forward with vague slogans like
“Freedom” or “Abolish capitalism” is likely to become easy prey for foundation-
funded operatives on the left wing of the Democratic Party.

If a movement pretends to have no leaders, then it is the corporate media,
themselves controlled by Wall Street, who will choose the leaders. A few days
ago, a Wall Street protester named Kelly Heresy was anointed as principal
honcho by Keith Olbermann, who used to work for the hedge fund called
General Electric, and who now works for Al Gore. This is no way to select
leaders.

The demonstrations may appear spontaneous, but it is easy to see gatekeepers
and countergangs operating in their midst, often with a frank
counterinsurgency agenda. Occupy Wall Street in particular shows the heavy
influence of union bureaucrats [...] complete aricle -
http://tinyurl.com/3spfg3d

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Robespierre115's avatar

By Robespierre115, October 1, 2011 at 10:22 pm Link to this comment

“To issue specific demands at this stage would be a mistake.  The 1% at whom the
protest is aimed have too much power and resources to accede to a demand.  If
one were made and it was rebuffed, what then?”

This is the problem with the current postmodern attitude. What do you mean “what then”? You form movements ready to take over the political process and win power through the ballot box as they have done in Bolivia, Venezuela, Argentina etc. If you already believe the oligarchy is too powerful to issue demands what’s the point of even protesting? To just vent?

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By Patriotgames, October 1, 2011 at 9:18 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Good point Supak. They/we should demand that the FTtax become a means to rescue the unemployed, arrest the foreclosure rate, and stabilize student loan defaults. A TARP-like bail-out for America’s “99ers” would help “even the keel”.

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Anarcissie's avatar

By Anarcissie, October 1, 2011 at 9:14 pm Link to this comment

I think it’s funny how bourgeois publications and liberal commentators have all this advice for the Occupation.  For better or worse, the Occupation has done something while they accomplished nothing.  The last thing the protesters need is advice from the New York Times.

Or any of us, for that matter.

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By Patriotgames, October 1, 2011 at 9:09 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Yes, Zimway, occupy(!).... and good going thus far -but Robespierre is correct: The key now is to parlay the attention toward a general strike. Additional methods such as boycotts of GE, Verizon, Walmart and other tax-cheating “Blue Chips” are called for. Lets show how “persons” can go “corporate” -i.e. prepare them a plate of shyt in return for there collective greed.

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By DWiser, October 1, 2011 at 8:55 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The fact that this is going on in NY and Wall Street is ridiculous!  Why aren’t these people in DC screaming at the administration and gov’t officials.  They are the ones who need to know the thoughts of the people and where the movement is going.  Why aren’t these people demanding explanations for the Solyndra Bankruptcy and how this administration thru away 500 million of our tax paying dollars to a company going bancrupt?  Does anyone really think Wall Street will ever take notice. No!  Do you think the people that these groups are targeting are even in Wall Steet?  Sorry they are not.  Its unfortunate that such large groups of people can be so wrong and sorry to say, stupid in wasting so much valuable time. I think the article is correct in saying that without a focus, these people are accomplishing Zero!!!!

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mrfreeze's avatar

By mrfreeze, October 1, 2011 at 8:43 pm Link to this comment

The problem with these protests is that they don’t hit Wall Street (or the corporate bullies that run this country) where it hurts the most: in the pocket book. Don’t you all “get it?” Until their wallets start to empty, the powerful don’t have to do anything. Until the powerful get a stinger in the nose, they couldn’t care less about protests, “bad” media coverage or anything else.

The only way to get their attention is to stop working, stop spending, stop investing and stop supporting their enterprises. “Not-showing-up” would do more to shake them up. Everyone should resolve to “starve” this particular beast by simply not cooperating.

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By Jeff, October 1, 2011 at 8:42 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The teatards had one demand to start with, then they got all
greedy with all the rest of their stupid demands afterwards, like
union busting. ‘OccupyWallStreet’ is not a demand, it’s a slogan.
We demand financial economic freedom from Wall Street Ponzi
scheming and Wall Street gambling with our banked money. We
demand Wall Street perp walks. We demand banksters in jail for
frauds and robbery. We demand our money back. We demand
cop free assembly anywhere we want. We demand our lives back.

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By Anthony1223, October 1, 2011 at 8:24 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Job,Shelter,and Dignity are the problems facing
everybody and every government on earth.It’s time for
us to review the old socioeconomic and political system
and find out the one suitable for 21st century.

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By SteveS, October 1, 2011 at 8:11 pm Link to this comment

To issue specific demands at this stage would be a mistake.  The 1% at whom the
protest is aimed have too much power and resources to accede to a demand.  If
one were made and it was rebuffed, what then?  Why continue the occupation of
course.  What is needed now is to be relentless, to persevere, to keep adding
reinforcements when folks are arrested.  (It worked in the South in the 60’s). 
Besides, the demands are both obvious and legion.  There is no need to
enumerate them now.

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By Tanya, October 1, 2011 at 8:03 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Are you kidding?  The writer is only identified as “BF”?  I hope Chris Hedges sees this.  BF is clueless.  Ask Chris to educate him please, or keep this guy off your contributor list.

The movement is leaderless by design. If a leaders was identified, how long to you think it would take before he or she would have an “accident?”

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By bob zimway, October 1, 2011 at 7:12 pm Link to this comment

The site flubbed my comment. “This is not a cognitive exam…” should be in my
post below.

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By bob zimway, October 1, 2011 at 7:10 pm Link to this comment

The first thing is to occupy. If you feel it, join in. This isn’t a cognit, the minds of
millions have already been made up, and it’s the heart that has to lead.

The MSM (main street media)  is hounding activists to work up some manifesto.
Well, screw that. TAKE UP SPACE. We have a surplus of progressive thinkers and
writers. All this will come.

My answer to the bobble heads of the MSM: IF YOU DON’T KNOW WHY WE’RE HERE,
YOU HAVEN’T BEEN PAYING ATTENTION.

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By Mary Good, October 1, 2011 at 6:54 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I don’t understand why everyone seems confused about what the Occupy Wall Street protests are about. 

Think about it.  The protest is called Occupy Wall Street.  They hold meetings, eat and sleep about as close as one can get to Wall Street.  They march and protest daily near Wall Street.  The fatted calf is heavily guarded and protected.  Wall Street is completely blocked, 24/7.

Then think about how, for the past decade or two or three, our democracy has been dismantled until it’s become a corporatocracy.  It has been sold to the highest bidders—Wall Street, corporations, interest groups, lobbyists, financiers, speculators, et al.

The confusion isn’t what are they protesting, but rather, where do we begin to repair and reform this mess? 

It’s difficult to keep track of all of the corruptions, cheap scandals, manufactured conflicts, bitter revenge cycles.  Where do we begin to repair and reform our failing democracy?

It seems very clear to me—Occupy Wall is about occupying Wall Street, due to Wall Street et al’s reckless and irresponsible behaviors. 

I bet if you asked anyone working in the financial industry, they’d be able to tell you what the protestors are protesting about.

And look who the younger generations have as role models, adults who should know how show America and the world how to practice the democratic decision-making process.  Instead, there’s a minority of obstructionists holding Washington hostage—elected officials carefully reading the rules in order to better scam the rules to get their way, by sneak or by crook—adults who prefer to watch our society disintegrate rather than try to reform and repair what needs reforming and repairing immediately if not sooner.

Compare the protestors with the Congress, the Senate and Washington, who have been at it for a few centuries now.  They meet in lavish surroundings.  They are given expense and travel accounts.  They own apartments and houses.  They have a good life, protected from what the protestors are not protected from.

Americans seem to enjoy competition.  Why don’t we arrange a Protestors vs. Washington “game,” to see who accomplishes more in their sessions?

It has been proven, time and time again, that many one day protests are under-reported or ignored by mainstream media, even protests of millions of people around the world, while Tea Party protests attended by two dozen people are over-reported.

We who are Democrats, liberals, progressives or leftists, et al. need to be grateful for what the protestors have been able to accomplish in this very difficult time.  So few of our voices are allowed onto the mainstream so-called “news” media.

Sincerely,
Mary

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Robespierre115's avatar

By Robespierre115, October 1, 2011 at 6:42 pm Link to this comment

400 arrested today at the protests. If the Unions joining them were serious they would call for a mass, general strike demanding the resignation of the mayor or other city officials and would form workers’ committees ready to take over.

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kerryrose's avatar

By kerryrose, October 1, 2011 at 5:53 pm Link to this comment

Why is TruthDig quoting the Washington Post in one article and The New York Times in another… on the same webpage?  I thought this was TRUTHDIG DIGGING BENEATH THE HEADLINES which means underneath just the MSM articles that Truthdig is actually quoting and posting.

What a disappointment.

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mrfreeze's avatar

By mrfreeze, October 1, 2011 at 5:18 pm Link to this comment

Too bad Americans are such sheep. I’m certainly inspired by these Wall Street protests, but something far larger must happen to get the attention of the bullies that own this country. A truly powerful 99% movement would follow the Gandhi model:

99% of working Americans should engage in a week-long walk-out from their jobs (a week of prayer & reflection). Let NOTHING get done for a week. Let the petty tyrants who own this country watch all economic activity stop for a few days…....let them reflect on who really does the work around here….....

BUT this is nothing but my stupid fantasy…because Americans are so deep in debt, so scared of their masters, so afraid that this phony thing we call “the American Dream” might fail, that they wouldn’t dare “stick it to the man…....” Strange isn’t it that millions of Indians were able to get rid of their problem with such a strategy but we are seemingly incapable of coming together?

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Robespierre115's avatar

By Robespierre115, October 1, 2011 at 5:14 pm Link to this comment

@bob zimway, but see that’s the problem, if all you focus on is occupying…then what? Obama won’t give a shit, he’ll just leave you sitting there if you’re not threatening to take concrete action to overturn the system.

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Robespierre115's avatar

By Robespierre115, October 1, 2011 at 5:10 pm Link to this comment

The criticisms of the protests are right in the sense that they need a unified, clear, organized goal or demand, whether revolutionary or reformist. For example in Chile the students are demanding free education for all, in the Middle East people are fighting and dying to OVERTHROW their governments. Occupy Wall Street needs to get beyond simple sloganeering, as seen today at the Brooklyn Bridge, the state will always respond with violence, the fatcats will not do the changing for us.

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By bob zimway, October 1, 2011 at 5:06 pm Link to this comment

Hey, quit worrying about demands, just take up space.

Don’t let the MSM badger you to come up with a pretty document.

OCCUPY.

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By FRTothus, October 1, 2011 at 3:20 pm Link to this comment

Gerard, you are correct in suggesting that there is
so much wrong, any list would be limiting… where
does one begin?

Ignore the MSM, the corporate vultures are circling
and desire easy prey.  A moving target is the best
defense.

Those involved in what I hope is the beginning of the
revolution and awakening this country needs
desperately are on the right side of history, and
have millions of us behind them, a fact which scares
the oligarchy to no end, for which I am delighted and
encouraged.

They are doing what they came there to do. They have
withstood the beatings and assaults, and have stood
their ground.  Their presence and perseverance is
greater than words, and no “expert” or media opinion
on what they should or should not do is at all
appropriate.

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By Textynn, October 1, 2011 at 2:57 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

It is pretty apparent that the message of Occupy Wall Street is that bankers should not be running the country, making laws that allow them to do anything and everything they want to people starting with illegal foreclosures, exploding mortgages, credit card interest rates that would choke a horse, realigning payments to cause delinquency fees, gambling against the economy they control, designing reasons to throw people in the streets, giving themselves bonuses for gross incompetence and illegal behavior, and forcing the people, for any reason they can dream up, to owe them more and more. But all of that just covers the crimes within their businesses. The real crime is they have taken over the levers of our government.

It was Wall street that ordered the killing of Single Payer as Wendell Potter let America know and it is Wall street behind the iron grip of war, the oil industry, big pharma, etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6aZPPSsryw&feature=channel_video_title

All of this must end. What idiot needs this all spelled out for them.

Wall Street has seized control of our government organ and is using it to pour the country’s money into their private coffers and cannibalizing the systems of our country,that we built and paid for, to control the lives of everyone for profit.

Wall Street has stolen our government and our democracy. These news paper articles are just part of the OnePercent’s bought and paid for monopoly trying to veil the truth and the reality. “OH we don’t understand. Oh we don’t know what this is suppose to mean. Oh we don’t see what the actual problems are that are.”

Give me a break. WE want our country to be turned back into a democracy. We are not children to be dictated to as the banks have decided and the banks were never elected to run our government. The government belongs to the people NOT Wall Street.

Any questions. No clear message, my eye.

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By out of the loop, October 1, 2011 at 2:52 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

It appears that the LA Times and the NY Times want Occupy Wall Street to arrive
with a neat pre-digested headline and sound-bite demands.  You know, like the
sorts of product introductions put together by MBA graduates of Marketing
Departments.  Protest done in the manner of selling soap or insurance policies. 
That they have this criticisms only reveals that although something is going on,
they just don’t understand it.  Something is happening, but you just don’t get it,
do you Mr. Jones? We don’t have to give you no stinking demands.  We are an
organic happening that hasn’t been pre-determined by any corporation or political
party.  We don’t operate like minions of the oligarchy, as the NY Times and LA
Times do.

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By zonth_zonth, October 1, 2011 at 2:40 pm Link to this comment

well said Gerard. 
In particular (2).  We have already witnessed fanatics making promises.  A leader will usually be perceived after a revolution takes place, not beforehand,—organizing and dispersing demands.  The point it not to look for one.

You are spot on regarding there being so many things wrong that various grievances appear aimless.

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By gerard, October 1, 2011 at 2:30 pm Link to this comment

1. These well-meaning people have been demobilized for years by being uninformed (by media), scared (by “surveillance”), and prevented from having direct and meaningful access to a government/business system that emphasizes being aloof, infallible, and disdainful of “the public.”

2. Be glad that so far they have NOT been persuaded to adopt rage and follow some screaming fanatic with big promises who is short of conscience and willing to exploit them for some hidden agenda.

3. Pray for them, (I mean hope, have faith) that their goals will evolve and “gel” democratically and that they will hold to nonviolence.

4. Those with political insight and abilities based on past experience, phone them, blog them, email them with your suggestions such as:  Concentrate specifically on the huge amounts of money and resources spent on useless, destructive wars. Advocate immediate withdrawal from war and organized violence and spend that money on schools, hospitals, trains, bridges, feeding the hungry, closing down the military/industrial complex and replacing it with a peace-oriented economy.
  Or, Replace all the original Constitutional rights taken away by the Patriot Act.
  Or, Petition the Supreme Court to revoke its disastrous ruling that “corporations are people, etc.”
  Or, Prevent lobbyists from literally buying candidates and elected officials.
  Or, Appeal to the public in absentia to organize local meetings, talk over the nation’s problems, and take surveys on what they think is important.
  Truth is, there is so much wrong that nobody knows
which issue is the most in need of change and what change is most likely to succeed.  Their aimlessness is only a reflection of our own.  Don’t knock it.
Take responsibility and deal with it whoever you are, wherever you are. Consult your own soul, perhaps?  Voice your opinion on local papers and radio stations?

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By zonth_zonth, October 1, 2011 at 2:24 pm Link to this comment

I wonder if the LAtimes and NYTimes authors dont think Libyan protestors have various grievances as well??

I reckon they would have thought the 60’s protestors were also not unified.

Seems like a silly conjecture to undermine what appears to me a very directed protest.

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ssupak's avatar

By ssupak, October 1, 2011 at 2:06 pm Link to this comment

I hope the protesters start talking about a Financial
Transactions Tax…

http://www.makefinancework.org/home-english/financial-
transaction-tax/

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