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Ear to the Ground

Virginia Tech Gunman ID’d

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Posted on Apr 17, 2007
seung
AP

A day after the deadly shootings at Virginia Tech that killed 33 people, police have released the identity of the gunman, who has been counted among the dead.  He was 23-year-old senior Cho Seung-Hui, a “loner,” according to a campus official, who moved to the U.S. from South Korea 14 years ago.


AP via Breitbart.com:

The rampage consisted of two attacks, more than two hours apart—first at a dormitory, where two people were killed, then inside a classroom building, where 31 people, including the gunman, died after being locked inside, Virginia State Police said. The gunman committed suicide.

Police identified the gunman in the classroom attack as 23-year-old Cho Seung-Hui. ... Cho held a green card—meaning he was a legal, permanent U.S. resident—and had been in the United States since 1992, federal officials said. Officials said he graduated from a public high school in Chantilly, Va., in 2003.

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By Frick, September 4, 2009 at 5:11 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Greeting. For me, it’s that I contributed, ... That I’m on this planet doing some good and making people happy. That’s to me the most important thing, that my hour of television is positive and upbeat and an antidote for all the negative stuff going on in life.
I am from Bulgaria and also now teach English, give true I wrote the following sentence: “According in shreck’s idea, not, is mayor hill, who continues such a power plant to be female.”

With love grin, Frick.

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By Douglas Chalmers, April 21, 2007 at 12:52 pm Link to this comment

“Um, Douglas, you are confusing nationalism with religion…...”

No, Frank, but most of the American people are. Then again, they are entitled to if they want their country run to their own standards. When will that ever happen?

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By Frank, April 21, 2007 at 12:39 pm Link to this comment

John Adams (the second President of the United States)

Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli (June 7, 1797). Article 11 states:
“The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”

From a letter to Charles Cushing (October 19, 1756):
“Twenty times in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, ‘this would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.’”


Thomas Jefferson (the third President of the United States)


From Jefferson’s biography:
“...an amendment was proposed by inserting the words, ‘Jesus Christ…the holy author of our religion,’ which was rejected ‘By a great majority in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and the Mohammedan, the Hindoo and the Infidel of every denomination.’”

From Thomas Jefferson’s Bible:
“The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.”

“I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half of the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth.”

James Madison (the fourth President of the United States)

Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments:
“Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise….During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.”
 
Benjamin Franklin

From Franklin’s autobiography, p. 66:
“My parents had given me betimes religious impressions, and I received from my infancy a pious education in the principles of Calvinism. But scarcely was I arrived at fifteen years of age, when, after having doubted in turn of different tenets, according as I found them combated in the different books that I read, I began to doubt of Revelation itself.”

From Franklin’s autobiography, p. 66:
“...Some books against Deism fell into my hands….It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quote to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations, in short, I soon became a thorough Deist.”

Thomas Paine

From The Age of Reason, pp. 89:
“I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of….Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and of my own part, I disbelieve them all.”

From The Age of Reason:
“All natural institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.”

From The Age of Reason:
“The most detestable wickedness, the most horrid cruelties, and the greatest miseries that have afflicted the human race have had their origin in this thing called revelation, or revealed religion.”


Ethan Allen

From Religion of the American Enlightenment:
“Denominated a Deist, the reality of which I have never disputed, being conscious that I am no Christian.”

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By Frank, April 21, 2007 at 12:09 pm Link to this comment

Um, Douglas, you are confusing nationalism with religion. The Unites States of America is not a Christian nation and never was, silly. It is a secular nation, with a constitutionally mandated seperation of church and state. Most of the key Founding Fathers were not Christians, they were Deists and Freethinkers. Many of them loathed the Christian church.

NONE of what you mentioned is attributable to the Christian religion or the bible. That is all nationalism/national security/ politically motivated.

In stark contrast,  all of what I mentioned is taken directely from Shariah, which is Islamic law.

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By Douglas Chalmers, April 21, 2007 at 1:17 am Link to this comment

“...Of all the major world religions, Islam is clearly the most virulent and volatile of our age.  Christianity went through it’s bloodiest and most dangerous expansionist phases centuries ago and has since settled down and become relatively civilized…....”

Utter rubbish, Frank!

Which “Christian” country has just killed 600,000+ people in a foreign land in the last 4 years?

Which “Christian” country has recently installed nuclear missile systems around the world pointing at its main rivals?

Which “Christian” country has had 10,000’s of its soldiers stationed in a foreign country for the last 50 years after it caused the country to be split in two?

Which “Christian” country has expanded relentlessly across the globe in the past 100 years at the inevitable cost of other nations?

Which “Christian” country has used nuclear weapons of mass destruction to kill 100,000’s of helpless civilians?

Which “Christian” country currently has more WMD’s than all the rest of the countries in the world combined?

Which “Christian” country stalks the world’s oceans with nuclear missile-armed submarines and nuclear aircraft carrier attack groups?

Which “Christian” country has created a global war of invading and occupying other peoples’ countries in the past 6 years?

Which “Christian” country has secret prisons around the world in which it tortures and interrogates kidnapped people?

Which “Christian” country has terrorised people of other religions around the world by manufacturing lies about their faiths and their peoples and their cultures?

Which “Christian” country has abandoned its presumed Christian philosophy in favour of a “you’re either with us or against us” belligerent mentality?

Which “Christian” country is still re-living its own insane civil war of a century and a half ago by covertly interfering in the affairs of other peoples’ countries and inciting civil wars?

Which “Christian” country has just decided to restrict the rights of its women to not be allowed medical help during pregnancies?

Which “Christian” country’s political system is run by a group of gun-carrying fanatics?

Which “Christian” country has dozens of murders every day and massacres regularly almost every year?

Commenters, please feel free to add to this list!!!!

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By Robert, April 20, 2007 at 11:14 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Frank…Oh I see who you are quoting & using as a reference to spew your agenda of Islamophobia.

You are quoting Sam Harris, a 40 year old raised by a Jewish mother who is a frequent guest at the ole “Fox Noise” network…Interesting! Its that same ole deceptions route.

I refer you back to my comment #64709 of 4/17.

BTW, you are entitled to your “freethinker/skeptic” beliefs & your Sam Harris’s comments.

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By Frank, April 20, 2007 at 6:01 pm Link to this comment

Robert, for the record,  I am a freethinker and a skeptic, not a Christian. I think all religions are psychological viruses. Who knows why the human predisposition for religious thought was selected for continued propagation through our evolutionary history, but unfortunately it was.  It is an interesting topic for science to address, and there are a number of books being published on the topic right now. 

Of all the major world religions,  Islam is clearly the most virulent and volatile of our age.  Christianity went through it’s bloodiest and most dangerous expansionist phases centuries ago and has since settled down and become relatively civilized, today posing only a mild threat to the seperation of church and state via the political process.  We don’t see many instances of Old Testament punishments being doled out with government sanction these days. But we do see Shariah being practiced in Islamic countries everywhere. Woman being buried up to their head and stoned to death, teenage boys hanged in public for suspicion of homosexuality, hands cut off of beggers stealing food. Woman killed for not wearing a veil in public. Men being sentenced to death for converting from Islam to another religion.  These are not isolated tales of mentally deranged psychopaths. These are common occurances throughout the Islamic world, which generally occur before a cheering crowd of approving, devout muslims. I’m not even going to delve into Iraq or Afghanistan and the recent legacy of Islam in those countries.

What is striking about the Koran is not that there are some occasional hateful verses directed towards nonbelievers, but that this type of vitriol seems to dominate the book. To quote Sam Harris, author of ‘The End of Faith’:

“I invite those who haven’t read the Quran to simply read the book. Take out a highlighter and highlight those lines that counsel the believer to despise infidels, and you will find a book that is just covered with highlighter.”

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By Douglas Chalmers, April 20, 2007 at 5:39 am Link to this comment

“...Cho Seung Hui was mentally ill, not just a troubled student….”

That must be about the dumbest statement possible! It says that it is not possible to discuss this incident intelligently. Is there something about accusing people of being mentally ill even if they are only depressed which satisfies the media? I’m glad that NBC did run the videos if only to prove that all of the drivel the media wants us to believe is inaccurate and irrelevant.

Cho was definitely “a troubled student” and had been for some time. That is the whole point! He had been depressed and had had treatment but no-one had bothered to help him address the underlying issues causing the depression. Looking at him a couple of years later, he was more matured but had developed a resentment and defiance and bitterness as his only defense mechanisms.

No wonder, in a sick society which loves guns and violence, did he succumb to the temptation to solve all of his problems in a macho, Rambo style outrage. That is exactly what the media has spawned with its violence and justification of violence as a “manly” act. Now his aggression has earned him condemnation and horror. It has also cost him his own life as well as costing the lives of so many other good young people. I hope you lot in the media are happy now that you can feed off this bizarre treat!!!

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By Peter RV, April 20, 2007 at 3:02 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Answer to Frank :
  To say that Muslims are killing Muslims in Iraq implies that Bush is a horrified by-stander who is trying to stop the slaughter. This is , of course, exactly what our propaganda machine is trying to make us believe in order to promote the Iraq occupation.
  The truth is quite different.
  Have you never heard of the mysterious “Forces of the Ministry of Interior” in Baghdad, which, by most accounts, is responsible for most of the killings? Including destruction of the Shiite mosque which started the whole mayhem? Well, it is very well known
(outside of the U.S., that is) that these are under the CIA control, and God only knows who is in them.
  Don’t believe either that all those bombings are “suicide” as we love to explain ” the Muslim mentality” to the naive and ignorant Americans. The car-bombs can easily be set up without any fanatic inside.
  Have we forgotten Lebanon and Yugoslavia? It is US who foment the fratricide in order to justify our agressions. The hard truth, Frank, is that over one million of Iraqis would be alive today if Saddam Hussein stayed in power.
  Think about that.

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By Robert, April 19, 2007 at 11:33 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Frank…A few quotations and words that we all know!


“An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a hand for a hand, a foot for foot.”

“If an eye is injured, injure the eye of the person who did it.”

“If a tooth is knocked out, knock out the tooth of the person who did it.”

{Matthew 5:38, Exodus 21:23-27, Leviticus 21:23-25, Deuteronomy 19:16-21}


The topic of this forum is about a mentally ill young Asian student who shot and killed 32 innocent bright students from all walks of life & different faiths.

I hope that each family, loved one, friends, neighbors and many more…will some day try to get on with their daily lives.

ILL INTENTIONS ONLY BREED ILL INTENTIONS !

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By Fadel Abdallah, April 19, 2007 at 9:59 pm Link to this comment

To: #65085 by Frank on 4/19 at 4:54 pm

Well EVIL Frank! It didn’t take you long to show your true colors. When you were exposed, you did not have any thing reasonable to say except to openly go full swing with your evil venomous propaganda against Islam.

I am wondering how much of your time you spend on websites that spread venomous and false propaganda against Islam?! And you want people to believe the fictitious “Koran” you are quoting from? 

My last word on the subject is that you are an example of what is wrong with America in particular and the world in general; and I feel so sorry and so insecure to have to share this planet with your types.

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By Frank, April 19, 2007 at 5:54 pm Link to this comment

Peter RV, most of the slaughter in Iraq these days is muslims killing muslims, just as they have for centuries, over different flavors of Islam.

Adullah wrote: “Again, I would like to tell that Islam does not teach to initiate hatred or hostilities towards others, but it gives one the theoretical right to reciprocate hate for hate and hostilities for hostilities. In other words, we don’t turn the other cheek.”

Adullah would like to inform us what Islam really teaches, but like most muslim apologists these days, he does not speak for the Koran. The Koran speaks for itself. According to the Koran, the only reason one needs to hate someone else is that they are not a muslim. That makes them your enemy.  Follow this link is a little sampling of what the Koran has to say about it.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/int/long.html

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By Peter RV, April 19, 2007 at 8:01 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

What emerges, so far, from Cho’s background is,
  1. that he was “sick”, and
  2. that he was a Christian.
If he was a sick Christian then his state of mind is not so abnormal as it may seem, considering that our President is one of those. Should we get impressed more with thirty two murders, by one of us, if we remain impassive in front of daily sloughter of Iraqis perpetrated by our very Christian President?
  What was most sickening to watch is, the mass scale murderer, Bush, paying tribute to the victims of a small time murderer, Cho.

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By Robert, April 19, 2007 at 12:28 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Comment #64879 by Frank on 4/18 at 5:42 pm
(6 comments)

“Fadel Abdallah and Robert, did either of you knee-jerk reactionary dummies notice the quotes round the bulk of my post? If you did, perhaps you simply don’t understand what quotes mean in the English language. It means that those were not my words, but were taken from the news source mentioned. There was quite a lot discussion in the media about those words on his arm and what they might mean, including a possible connection to Islam.”


Oh gee…Frank…thanks for the explanation regarding “quotes”. I needed your elementary English expertise & explanation regarding “quotation marks”!

Notice my comment #64709, I posted your phrase / comment that was NOT in quotes.

Could his hatred of the fellow students be based on his Islamic beliefs?

Frank these were your words and/or question since you had NO quotes on this last part of your initial comment #64645. So much for your English & quotes logic!

Now in regards to a lot of discussion in the media,  the words “Ax-Ishmail” or “Ishmail-Ax” were written in red ink on one of his arms. The news media staff commented from a religion’s perspective, the name “Ishmail” relates to Judaism, Christianity & Islam. That is all that I heard on the subject in regards to religion.

However, there was quite a bit of detail from Cho’s English as a major topics.

“Ishmail-Ax” apparently was found in one of a poetry books & other reading sources. If you watched “Nightline” on ABC tonight, 4/18/07, there was extensive details about where Cho might have gotten the words “Ishmail-Ax”. Cho was Christian & his family had strong Christian backgrounds. Cho mentioned Jesus Christ on the tape that was mailed to NBC News.

Frank…you may have had a quick and rushed “knee-reaction” by posting such an inflammatory comment and/or question. You had no facts or truth regarding Cho’s motives and reasons for his bloody killings.

Cho was mentally sick. He had several mental disorders. He was confined in a mental facility in 2005. Sadly no one from Va. Tech., his room mates and the police saw what was coming.

Frank…You rushed to the wrong judgement / assessment.

As a result of the bloody carnage at Va. Tech., there are a lot of grieving people and families from all walks of life & religions: Christians, Jews and Moslems.

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By Douglas Chalmers, April 18, 2007 at 11:39 pm Link to this comment

Quote Fadel Abdallah: “...I would like to tell that Islam does not teach to initiate hatred or hostilities towards others, but it gives one the theoretical right to reciprocate hate for hate and hostilities for hostilities….”

Perhaps this is a time to actually “turn the other cheek”, Fadel Abdallah? If Robert was “outsmarted by a Muslim”, it is better to leave him to learn not to “hate” as a result but to appreciate someone and something more intelligent. Reciprocating “hate or hostility” leaves one merely stranded in one’s own “false glories”. As it is, the main subject of this topic has already escalated to another level in the media which invites our analysis.

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By Fadel Abdallah, April 18, 2007 at 10:54 pm Link to this comment

You EVIL Robert again, playing the smart this time with punctuation marks! Yes, to your disappointment, I know punctuation marks and what they mean in five languages and I’ve been teaching them for over 20 years, for I am a linguist and language is my game.

To prove to you that I know more than you about punctuation marks and to expose your lame excuse and lie I would like to point to you that placing quotes marks some times is used to express authenticity and approval of what one quotes.

Even if I give you the benefit of the doubt about your quotation, the last sentence after the quote is your own rhetorical hate-loaded statement, in which you say without quotation marks:

Could his hatred of the fellow students be based on his Islamic beliefs?

Again, I would like to tell that Islam does not teach to initiate hatred or hostilities towards others, but it gives one the theoretical right to reciprocate hate for hate and hostilities for hostilities. In other words, we don’t turn the other cheek.

Frankly speaking, Mr. Frank, you are evil and full of irrational hate; for I don’t fail to know one when I see one speak or write, and you are caught in the act twice; and that’s why I have to repeat what I think about you twice. You called for it this second time!

Now that a Muslim was able to outsmart you, you might have another good reason to officially and perpetually become a Muslim-hater! Then you can add this accomplishment to your false glories, and possibly take it to the bank of Zionist AIPAC, so, per chance, they might cash it for you!

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By CK, April 18, 2007 at 7:08 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Before anyone jumps on the “This has no connection to Islam, how dare you…” boat, we might want to wait until the full contents of the videos and manifesto that Cho mailed to NBC are made public. Apparently there was discussion of religion in them, specifically rants against Christianity, references to ‘martyrs’ that came before him who also massacred American students, and so on.  Maybe he was merely borrowing terminology and symbols associated with Islam and wasn’t an actual muslim.  We will have to wait and see.

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By Frank, April 18, 2007 at 6:42 pm Link to this comment

Fadel Abdallah and Robert , did either of you knee-jerk reactionary dummies notice the quotes round the bulk of my post? If you did, perhaps you simply don’t understand what quotes mean in the English language.  It means that those were not my words, but were taken from the news source mentioned. There was quite a lot of discussion in the media about those words on his arm and what they might mean, including a possible connection to Islam.  I was asking for feedback based on what they were reporting.


Fadel, your labeling of me as an ‘evil soul’ based on that post speaks volumes about you, and only serves to reinforce the negative sterotypes of muslims an extremist thinkers, because you clearly are one.  Perhaps you would serve the public image of Islam best by not posting at all.

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By TAO Walker, April 18, 2007 at 12:21 pm Link to this comment

P.S. to Tom Doff (#64680), who knows very well there are, in Bob Dylan’s words, “....no secrets to conceal.”  Thus all the official/commercial smoke-and-mirrors, hiding nothing but the yawning emptiness of “the dominant paradigm.”

The tiyoshpaye knows this old Indian mostly as just plain Granpa, these days….with a “Tunkashila” or two thrown-in on especially ceremonial occasions.  The Old Woman is, as always, a more constant traditionalist, and insists on “Unchee” or Grandmother. 

Tom Doff is right about the all-around “good medicine” of this free wild natural Way of Life Herownself.  Nobody here would have it any other.

HokaHey!

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By Peter RV, April 18, 2007 at 5:48 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Without being a psychopathologue I would suggest a restraint in rushing to an explanation of Cho’s crime. He had his reasons, obviously unacceptable to the rest of us, to commit this atrocity, which he apparently stated in a long letter he left behind.
Let’s see first what exactly he wrote in it.
Cho was litterate enough (he was an English major)
to tell us about his state of mind which drove him to his rampage.
Those who prefer to insult him, let them satisfy themselves by doing so, but I think this is the cheap way out.
Let’s hope they’ll publish the full text (apparently several pages) of this letter without declaring it a “danger to National Security” and classifying it “top secret”.
Knowing my fellow Americans I consider myself lucky not to be a Korean at this moment.

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By TAO Walker, April 18, 2007 at 1:38 am Link to this comment

Among us Indian people it is recognized that human beings do not in fact occur as “individuals” in the natural living arrangement….and even as “by-products of civilization,” they are not even nominally viable except in the highly controlled artificial environment that is the civilized world.  We humans are, naturally, PERSONS….which the civilizing process used originally as the “raw material” it refined into the cheap imitation plastic facsimiles (of actual human beings) known universally today as “individuals.”  Early-on, though, it became possible to manufacture these under-people directly, without all the drawbacks attendant upon the exploitation of captured wild “feed-stocks,” at which time the perpetrators set out to exterminate us….a project they haven’t given-up on to this day.

So Douglas Chalmers (#64697) is quite right in his observation about the low value the global system puts on “individuals.”  It’s a supply-and-demand thing, and 6+ billion of damned near anything is going to seriously erode it’s relative worth in any market.

Of course the owner/operators of the domesticating machinery are notoriously “no respecters of persons,” either….though they are justifiably afraid of the effects we are having on them and their faltering infernal contraption here.  We raise holy hell with the entire apparatus, and are living proof of its damned foolish conceit and ultimate futility. 

The young fella who fell to pieces under the pressure of his half-life as a civilized “individual” certainly did not come to such awful grief in a socio-economic vacuum, though the utter vacuousness of “modern” conditions is no secret to anyone who has ever experienced even a moment of lucidity.  Yet the preprogrammed response to this tragic dis-integration, by the institutional framework in which it occurred, was to treat the “survivors” like the two-legged livestock they are adjudged by its “managers” to be.  And the probable policy changes, “going forward,” will entail only more and more and more of the same inhuman behavior-controls begetting only more and more and more of the same catastrophic “individual” and societal break-downs.

This is the essential nature of the thing, and not merely evidence of fixable glitches in its command-and-control sub-systems.  It IS, as Confucius might say, what it DOES….and that is exactly what it can be seen plainly to be doing all over the place right this minute….eating the Earth and all who sail in her alive. 

The domesticated nations, if they’re not happy with the way things seem to be going in their virtual world, might take a tip from Albert Einstein, and try something different for a change.  This old Indian recommends wholeheartedly the free wild natural Way of Life Herownself.  Almost everybody loves a Song ‘n’ Dance.

HokaHey!

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By Robert, April 17, 2007 at 11:55 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Comment # 64645 by Frank on 4/17 at 5:02 pm
(4 comments)


Frank’s Islamophobia comment:


“Could his hatred of the fellow students be based on his Islamic beliefs?”


Wow Frank…it is clearly obvious what your intentions are from your comment #64645 on this forum / thread. You just want to spread that propaganda of Islamophobia.

After watching the news this evening, it is clear that this young South Korean male student has several stages of mental disorders. His former room mates were interviewed at length. They described Cho as a very strange person. He was a loner and called himself “Question Mark”. He stalked female students & had suicidal behavior. The females reported Cho to the police.

Cho’s English play writings were so strange which prompted one his professors to report him to administrative officials at Va. Tech in 2005.

There was NEVER any mentions of any Islamic beliefs in his writings or even close to it.

Simply put, Cho was a paranoid & psychotic individual according to one of the psychologist that was interviewed. His illness drove him to commit this tragic & bloody massacre at Va. Tech.

Frank…your strange attempts to spread your deceptive attempts of labeling it Islamic beliefs… its just NOT going to work on this & other forums!

Just think about all those young lives that were lost, their parents, their loved ones, their friends…just think what they are going through right now and for a long time.

It is clear that you are NO trusted detective nor a competent psychologist.

Your deceptive attempts & ill intentioned comments only reflect your abnormal wishes.

They have NO TRUTH to them.

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By Douglas Chalmers, April 17, 2007 at 10:24 pm Link to this comment

Quote TAO Walker: “...There is another way.  Us free wild natural human beings continue to walk it, nevermind what our domesticated sistren and brethren are taught to the contrary.  We invite them, as the walls of the virtual world-of-hurt they’re confined behind close-in, to escape from their make-believe “communities” and recover together the natural human form we call tiyoshpaye.  There’s room enough here for all who would “abandon” their institutional baggage for an actual Way of Life…...”

Obviously, this is the result of mental and emotional stress. Young people living alone are usually coldly ignored in the modern society despite their needs. Coming from another country and being in a minority ethnic class doesn’t help, either. Cho Seoung-Hui has sadly taken his own life now as well as the lives of many others. Being forever more referred to only as “the Virginia Tech gunman” does not achieve any kind of understanding of what really happened or who he really was.

People are so obsessed with “control”. Why is “lockdown” now a word so often used in this kind of situation? That is only ever a term used for prison riots! Why, after the previous shooting (Columbine) were all of the surviving students marched out of the building by the police with their arms up and their hands on their heads? Isn’t that only ever a means of dealing with captured criminals?

Even the student’s cell phone video of police arriving at Virginia Tech ended with the howling animal-like rage of some policeman as soon as he/she was noticed filming them. Are we all then merely captives in this uncaring society? Or is it that we are free to roam like grazing animals within the boundary of some imaginary mental “fences” but that is the limit of our freedom? What happened to respect - or is that only for those in authority?

Obviously, individuals obviously no longer matter. Is it any wonder, then, that young people like Cho Seoung-Hui become erratic and then deranged? Somehow, caring and sharing and mutual co-operation seem to have been downgraded and re-classified into irrelevance. Now, we have the consequences!

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By Fadel Abdallah, April 17, 2007 at 9:37 pm Link to this comment

#64645 by Frank on 4/17 at 5:02 pm
(4 comments total)

According to several news reports today:

“Cho apparently had scrawled the words “ISMAIL AX” on the inside of one arm, according to the Chicago Tribune, which may be a reference to the Islamic account of the Biblical sacrifice of Abraham.”

Could his hatred of the fellow students be based on his Islamic beliefs?
================================
Frank! You’re obviously an evil soul to start connecting this murderous act to Islam. The world of Islam might have its share of bad and sick souls, but in general their numbers pale in comparison to the atrocities committed by followers of other religions, including your own what ever that is. This is not the place to start documenting this to an ignorant person like you, but if you insist I will send you all the references and documentation!

First, you are evil when you want to insinuate that Cho was a Muslim, which he is not and cannot be. And, at least, one of the victims of this tragic incident is a Muslim I could recognize from her name. True Islamic teachings, for your information, consider a killing of one single innocent human being as if killing all humanity. Moreover, the Islamic account of Abrahm is a symbolic thing based on a dream and Ishmael was not sacrified, but given a life of mission to become a Prophet in his own right.

Instead of starting these evil rumers and insinuations, you should be asking how a poor refugee student was able to get money to buy the two deadly and expensive weapons from a local merchant of death! Then you should start questioning the security arrangements at this institution that allowed one little guy to acquire these two large deadly weapons and bring them to a dorm he was sharing with other students!

You must be getting your screwed up ideas and thoughts from the Zionist Christian neocons propaganda machine!

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By A. Moss, April 17, 2007 at 9:06 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Society doesn’t take domestic violence seriously - if it did we wouldn’t have heard repeatedly how students weren’t notified for two hours because they thought it was ” a domestic violence” situation”.

Even if it wasn’t a domestic violence situation, if we as a society took domestic violence seriously, a crazed violent person with guns, who had already killed, would not have been presumed to be a minimal threat - he would have been seen to be a violent dangerous person running loose on a campus with thousands of innocent student, and perhaps better responses and outcomes would have happened. I really blame our societal view for the delayed warning.

We need to change our view of domestic violence.

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By Tom Doff, April 17, 2007 at 9:00 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Hey, there, TAO Walker, (Is your life-mate GAIA Strider, and together are you known as TaoGaia in your community?), you tricky old KY-OH-TAY, what are you doing here on Truthdig revealing the secrets of a contented, useful, happy life?

YONOSAY

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By TAO Walker, April 17, 2007 at 8:00 pm Link to this comment

Yesterday’s news reports were filled with officials and papered professional experts referring to, for example, the Virginia Tech “community.”  The law-enforcement “community” also received several (mostly honorable) mentions, as did other groups involved in the incident.  This “community” mantra is such a common and constant refrain everywhere these days, that no one seems even to wonder anymore whether there’s any actual validity to the claim….and the vast majority of domesticated people go blithely about their day-to-day affairs believing themselves to be members of some kind of organic and viable human configuration.

This old Indian, who has lived all his days in a real life organic arrangement called by the Lakota people “tiyoshpaye,” suggests here, respectfully, that there is a whole world of difference between our natural human form and the random collections of ersatz “individuals” designated so casually and carelessly as “communities” today.  The generally grid-patterned spaces occupied by nearly all of these variously special-interest groupings, a preponderance of them more-or-less temporary and gathered together around some particularized and almost always artificial organizing principle (or, often, principal), reveal clearly their essentially artifactual nature.

So long as the institutional substitutes for the natural (but too ungovernable to suit the extremely limited, and limiting, purposes of civilization) human responses to such things as, say, danger, hold-up and perform as advertised, things appear to go along tolerably well from day-to-day.  When the substitute system fails, however, as it is doing much more often lately, it’s unfortunately now congenitally disabled random collections of “individuals” have no immediate access to the communal attributes of intuitive alertness and spontaneous response-ability innate within the organic form of the tiyoshpaye.  So that despite apparent “warning signs” exhibited by the “individual” who ran amok in Blacksburg yesterday, for example, and even in the midst of his rampage, no cohesive, instinctive, effective communal response was forthcoming from the other “individuals” who found themselves in the path of the mayhem.

The same condition prevails at every “level” of the global pyramid scheme, from the nucular (sic) family to the nation-state, to the worldwide “market economy.”  And “individuals” within it are basically as helpless in the face of both abberant and organized violence and exploitation as were those who succumbed to yesterday’s shocking yet only-to-be-expected outburst in the Commonwealth of Virginia. 

When the ruling ethic of an “individual” or any-sized gang of ‘em is that of predation, as it is among the most dedicated adherents of “western” civilization, everyone and everything not of the in-crowd is assigned the inferior place of prey.  About the only real effect that tightening-up the institutional framework can possibly have at this point (besides strengthening the already iron-fisted death-grip on their lives of today’s reign-of-terror) is to render the inmates even more susceptible to both episodes of psychotic sociopathy as overstressed “individuals” in the midst of inhuman conditions, and much greater vulnerablility, among the general population, to becoming the “random victims” of such reactive violence.

There is another way.  Us free wild natural human beings continue to walk it, nevermind what our domesticated sistren and brethren are taught to the contrary.  We invite them, as the walls of the virtual world-of-hurt they’re confined behind close-in, to escape from their make-believe “communities” and recover together the natural human form we call tiyoshpaye.  There’s room enough here for all who would “abandon” their institutional baggage for an actual Way of Life.

HokaHey!

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By Frank, April 17, 2007 at 6:02 pm Link to this comment

According to several news reports today:

“Cho apparently had scrawled the words “ISMAIL AX” on the inside of one arm, according to the Chicago Tribune, which may be a reference to the Islamic account of the Biblical sacrifice of Abraham.”

Could his hatred of the fellow students be based on his Islamic beliefs?

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RAE's avatar

By RAE, April 17, 2007 at 5:47 pm Link to this comment

It’s hard to argue against the conclusion that if ALL the students and faculty had been ARMED, this fellow wouldn’t have made it past victim ONE.

And that statement comes from me - one of the world’s most anti-gun proponents!

However, that would likely mean that on any given day, in a population of 20,000 students, under high pressure to perform, we’d see the creation of one or two “victims” PER DAY, as a matter of course.

Until we divest ourselves of the notion that we MUST ACHIEVE while spending our pathetically few years on this planet, we will have those who cannot cope with relentless competition. Looked at the suicide rate amongst businesspeople in Japan lately?

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By kingdomkid, April 17, 2007 at 5:43 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

How about trying to stop this from ever happening again? So far,not one person has come up with a logical,reasonable way to try to avoid things like ...you know ....killing students who are innocently sitting in a classroom doing something to make them selves better. Hello…does anybody out there understand? We are talking about a mass murder that just took place here, not polutatics. Come on…where are your guenious ideas on security in this country? You can do better than this. We should be working together to come up with a plan to stop things like this from ever happening again. I feel we need metal detectors and more security measures in place….plans to lock down and find the perpitrator.

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By David P Vernon, April 17, 2007 at 5:20 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Several reports indicate that the Virginia Tech gunman, Cho Seung-Hui, had been reported to police and other authorities for displaying various kinds of mentally disturbed behavior, and even was on some kind of medication for some kind of mental illness.  According to federal firearms law, any person who is taking medication or is in treatment for mental illness may not legally purchase a handgun, so, if Cho was being treated more than 36 days ago, when he bought his guns, those purchases were not in fact lawful, contrary to the report from the Associated Press.  However, here is the rub - while there are records of felony convictions, available for background checks by firearm dealers, there are no such records for drug addicts (another prohibited class for handgun purchases) or for mental patients.  In fact, due to the privacy provisions of the HIPAA, a federal law binding health care providers, it may not be legal to report names of mental patients to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms.  So, one federal law prohibits selling guns to nut-cases while another prohibits identifying nut-cases to gun dealers!

If you want to keep guns out of the hands of dangerous mentally ill people, you must have a registry of mentally ill people to check purchasers against.  You certainly can’t trust a fellow like Cho to answer the “mental health” question on the form truthfully…

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By DaShamu, April 17, 2007 at 5:09 pm Link to this comment

It’s sad to see how many people are dealing problems with violence.
Some religions encourage people to take revenge on others; some regimes use violence to control their people. While some media teach kids how to be violent; some adults show to kids how to solve problems with violence without noticing what influence they might give.
It happens not only between people and people, but also between nations. As one of the leading country in the world, the U.S. government should not show their leadership in a violent way. Bush’s “War on Terror” is one of the great examples.
It is clear that the military solution is continuing to worsen the situation in Iraq, so now is time to reinforce a humanitarian aid to bring peace to the world.
Instead spending $522 billion on U.S. military budget and wasting our precious lives by sending more troops, we can use the money to save so many lives by providing food, water access and sanitation. According to The Borgen Project, it only costs $19 billion to eliminate global hunger.
I hope our next political leader will make a commitment to the U.N.’s Millennium Development Goals to stop the global poverty and make the world a better place.

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By Rob, April 17, 2007 at 4:38 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“Let’s put this blame where it really belongs. Video game violence”

Still trying to remember the last time I played a violent video game and murdered a bunch of classmates, hmmmmmm…..

How about we put the blame on Cho instead, not like there’s any evidence he played video games anyways.

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By Peter RV, April 17, 2007 at 3:28 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Cho was a troubled boy but whatever else he was, he wasn’t a coward. There is no point foaming from the mouth about this crime since we are the world’s number one exporter of of arms and crime.
When thirty two people get killed in Baghdad we call it a quiet day.

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By QuyTran, April 17, 2007 at 2:27 pm Link to this comment

Weapons do not have eyes ! Please rest in peace all of you. Just try hard to find a new world where hatred never exist !

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By kingdomkid, April 17, 2007 at 2:07 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

No reason what so ever why there was not a lockdown. Look at what happened at Colimbine High here in Colorado. Now this…innocent people were killed or injured because you had NO LOCKDOWN!!! What were you thinking? I mean…come on, this is not like you did not have the warning signs on this guy and what did you do to help prevent this? I am appauled at the sinceless killings that happened here at VA Tech and from what has been said, it should have never happened. Lockdown!!!!!!!!Until you have everything under control…LOCKDOWN…This could have possibly saved innocent lives you think? I’m grieved for the victims and the families….more than this…I believe the President of the school and police department should be accountable for their actions. This is tragic…..I’m so asshamed of our security measures here in the U.S. and how lightly we seem to take things that are serious. We are living in very dangerous times and I believe we should not take anything for granted and never assume…always be sure. This way you don’t gamble with other peoples lives. I mean please…look at the guy who called in to VA Tech and wanted to know if everything was ok. He was told to PROCEED….not STAY HOME,,,,no, it was to proceed with caution. The police assumed it was domestic violence before they had all the answers. So carelessly they led others to believe the same and to go on with their lives cautiously…How can you do this? I’m so distraught over this ....How can I send my son to a college like this? NO WAY!!! Why didn’t the president of the school along with the govenor of the state ever even mentioned the loss of the lives and give condolences? Did they tell you they were working on a plan to prevent this in the future? NONONONONONO! Talk to the people at Columbine High in Colorado. You might learn how to deal with this better. In the mean time ,,,,May God have mercy on you and help you…in Jesus Name

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By anonymous psych graduate student, April 17, 2007 at 2:00 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“Video Game Violence”? What a popular folk psychology reference! Violence has many roots, Video games is cited as the reason currently. Previous generations have cited alcohol, television, radio… Violence isn’t going away, regardless of our initiatives and finger-pointing. What needs to be studied is Hate. We all create hate in ourselves and others through unkind speech and actions privately and publicly. This hate has consequences. We see it privately through depression and anxiety and publicly through violence and genocide.

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By Douglas Chalmers, April 17, 2007 at 1:19 pm Link to this comment

“A SOUTH Korean student railed against ‘rich kids, debauchery and deceitful charlatans’ in a note he left behind before carrying out the deadliest school shooting in US history…....The 23-year-old student wrote: ‘You caused me to do this,’ in a several-page-long note that he left in his dorm room…...The note began in the present tense and then shifted to the past tense as Cho Seung-Hui explained his actions amid a rambling list of grievances cited by the Chicago Tribune….......
Cho wrote the note in his dorm room after he killed two people in another dorm room, ABC reported. He then re-armed and went to a classroom building on the other side of campus where he killed 30 more people before shooting himself in the head, sources told ABC. Cho had also shown recent signs of ‘violent, aberrant behaviour’, including stalking women and setting a fire in a dorm room, investigators in Virginia told the Chicago Tribune…....”

If it helps in understanding, something like this only on a smaller scale happened at Monash University in Melbourne, Australia too almost 5 years ago (search “Monash Melbourne shooting”) or see http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/10/21/1034561430158.html

It seems that there are a number of depressing circumstances and anxiety-producing situations affecting foreign students in Australia as well as the USA. Some of these relate to their courses and university management and expensive housing/accomodation is a factor often too.

Another problem some students face is a lack of empathy from local people and a feeling of being shut out of society generally. I have always gone out of my way to make friends with as many of these young people as I meet. It is a little late, though, after psychological stress turns to desperation - and then to doing desperate things!

Also blogged at http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/virginia_tech_massacre/

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By Virginia Tech, April 17, 2007 at 1:03 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

<a >Virginia Tech reports shooting (multiple)</a>

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By Tom Doff, April 17, 2007 at 12:59 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

From South Korea, huh. Hmmmmm. Based on our 9/11 Iraq logic….............

Look out, North Patagonia. You’re gonna get democratized, like it or not.

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By Hammo, April 17, 2007 at 12:10 pm Link to this comment

There may be some connections between increasing violence in the world on many levels and on many fronts.

US national leaders who promote invasions, violence, torture, the killing of half a million innocent Iraqi civilians (including children) and similar activities don’t exactly contribute to an atmosphere of peaceful problem-solving.

Food for thought on this at:

“Events at home and overseas trouble our souls: New directions provide opportunities”

PopulistAmerica.com
October 13, 2006

http://www.populistamerica.com/events_at_home_and_overseas_trouble_our_souls

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By sharon ash, April 17, 2007 at 12:09 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

There is an effort to establish a U.S. Department of Peace and Nonviolence.  In the House of Representatives it has more than 60 co-sponsors.  It is H.R. 808.  One goal of the department is to teach non-violence in our schools.  The ultimate goal is to move our country from a culture of violence into a culture of peace.  It is estimated to cost 2% of the federal budget to fund this department.  The 2008 proposed federal budget from Mr. Bush contains an allocation of approximately 51% to current and past military operations.  Therefore 2% is a rather modest request by comparison.  The United States is the most violent country in the industrial world.  That is a sorry statistic.  We need to give the proposed U.S. Department of Peace and Nonviolence a chance to see if we can improve that statistic.

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By Rob, April 17, 2007 at 11:52 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

What a cowardly murderous piece of shit this guy was. Please, do not show ANY sympathy for this guy. Don’t give me that crap about him being “troubled” and “depressed”.

Guess what? There was a time where I was dealing with depression, anger and anguish. Did I ever think of massacring unarmed innocents? Ummm, nope.

All of these “people”; Cho, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, the monster who murdered those Amish girls, that Columbine-wannabe idiot in Montreal….they’re all the same. If you make the decision to murder innocent people or children because of your own fucked up pathetic life, well, you’ve pretty much forfeited your right to be considered a human being.

It’s my only regret that Cho, just like the rest of these cowards, offed himself in the end. He deserved to be slowly tortured to death for the atrocity he committed.

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By ShockandAwe, April 17, 2007 at 11:47 am Link to this comment

Let’s put this blame where it really belongs. Video game violence.

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