Junky journalism and manipulative and misleading information might be never
ending because it works. It is hard not to drop the F bomb when you are often
being told that “Hitler was a socialist”. People use Nazi/skinhead comparisons
back and forth. The discussions are polluted by provocative propaganda rhetoric.

I’m blaming the history channel until I find the real source of it.

Anarcissie, you understand what i am trying to say. thank you for the effort.

Your question about the English flag (the cross of St. George) vs the Union Jack is a good one. i had the same question and wanted to investigate.

How the polling question was asked would shed light on the matter. Because the questioning could have been done in such a way as to intentionally engender misunderstanding.

Without the poll all we can do is trace the origin of the poll itself.

The people who commissioned the poll are a group called “Searchlight”. They advertise themselves as an ‘Antifascist’ organization.

So one supposes the poll was created to prove their point, to create some controversy, to win more support, and most of all to increase magazine sales.

Unfortunately that conclusion is speculation on my part.

OzarkMichael—You make an interesting point.  I tried to find out more about the poll, whose findings were, for me, rather counter-intuitive, but the ‘Populus’ site points to the Guardian article and vice versa.  I can’t find the text of the queries, the response choices offered, the population queried, or the statistical procedures carried out on the results.  Shady indeed.

The part about the English flag (the cross of St. George, not the Union Jack) being required was especially odd.  It may well be that nationalism is rampant in England, but we’re not allowed to know much about it here.

DGBJPN—Glad we agree on the states’ rights thing.

As to the question of immigration itself, I think excluding people from outside one’s area contradicts our usual notions of a free society.  For example, I have a friend who is a Latvian, whose company I enjoy.  If the government excludes peaceful Latvians, then my rights of of expression, association and assembly are injured for no reason.

So are the Latvian’s, but I’m pretending here that we don’t care about the rights of people over these artificial lines we draw on out maps.  A questionable approach, but I’m going along with it for the moment.

rico:  ” Hatred of the West has very little to do with what’s happening on the streets of the Mideast.”

an interesting observation.  Where did you get this idea?

Dear Reader,

Do you know anything about the ‘far right swing’ in Britain as a fact?

Truthdig placed a suggestive quote next to a suggestive picture and that got you all going, but is there anything you actually know about that British poll? Something that you can analyse and figure out for yourself instead of jumping through hoops like a trained dog?

The poll in the article is a shady item. The Guardian article about the poll is a dim reflection of the ‘shady item’, and the Truthdig article just adds a nasty photo to a slick one liner taken from the ‘dim reflection’ of the ‘shady item’.

Where is the ‘Truth’ that we ‘dig’ into here? There is none.

Oh, but thats more than enough to get you rightious Leftists to point fingers and pontificate. Two of you even dropped the ‘f bomb’(f is for fascism) on the Brits.

Thats what its all about. Thats the Truthdig way. 

Here is my way: I want to know the information, the data, and then argue about what it means. Is that too much to ask?

Okay, Truthdig. Here is your chance to make this an argument over reality instead of your Leftist emotions and delusions:

Try to find the actual poll so we can have an intelligent discussion over what it really means.

I am talking to you, Truthdig! Or any Truthdigger under whose lazy eye this article falls. Instead of whipping up more bias and prejudice, try to locate the facts.

If you dont do so, lets be honest. You arent drilling for the truth, you are drilling for your own bias, and this time you hit a gusher!

Congratulations, you have proven yet again what a waste of time this website is.

But i have a question or two:

Does it ever bother you that you have no idea what you are talking about? Does it ever bother you that you are teaching others to do the same?

I agree with zonth_zonth.

Race is being used as a tactic in this issue. I feel sorry for people who see it that
way because it must seem terrifying.

Representing the interests of non-citizens vs. citizens is both the wrong thing to
do and political suicide also.

Thank you, Anarcissie, for clarity and decency.

People are for institutional/ corporate/ governmental “rights” when they agree with the institution/ corporation/ government. They also seem to forget that once upon a time immigrants from Germany were frowned upon in the colonies (see Benjamin Franklin) and certainly the Irish and southern and eastern Europeans were viewed with horror and distaste.

Just where are you from, you folks who object to native Americans crossing borders you made up? I’m beginning to think all of us who came here after 1600 need to go home now.

I do not refer to human beings as illegals, it not being the christian or decent thing to do.

Yes, a sizable number of those people coming across the border used to be farmers. One industrialized chicken farm can replace thousands of farmers, get it?

And what does destroying local agriculture have to do with outsourcing jobs? I will once again stop reading your comments; they seem to be the product of too many prescription meds or something.

Isn’t the concept of a far-right nationalist party which eschews violence and fascist ideology an oxymoron?

DGBJPN, February 28 at 5:08 am:

What’s the problem with reducing or even halting immigration? Anyone? A nation state has the right to choose.

First of all, I don’t think states have rights.  Only people have rights.  States are artifices created by people, existing at their pleasure, and ‘derive their just powers from the consent of the governed.’

In the matter of immigration, I prefer a social order based on peace, freedom and equality.  I think that implies that, as long as visitors come in peace, to work, trade, or just hang out and look at the sights, they should be freely able to do so, as long as they abide by the rules and traditions of the locality.  I live in a county (Queens, New York) which has about 150 different ethnic groups, and we all get along just fine most of the time.  We’re also fairly well off, although we send much more money to Washington and Albany than they give back to us.  So I don’t see what benefit is achieved by using force and threats of force to keep visitors out.

Robespierre said: “Instead of attacking the “multiculturalists,” why don’t you protest the oligarchy sucking the country dry?”

Now you are basically saying the article is a distraction. Instead of asking me the question, ask Truthdig why they ran the article.

Better yet ask yourself why you fell for it!

After you read the article you said this:

By Robespierre115: “It looks like the fascist UK of films like “V For Vendetta” and “Children Of Men” will soon become a reality. How sad.”

You dropped an ‘f bomb’ on the British people. Just like Truthdig wanted you to. You are the one who made the issue by calling it fascism. Now you wont defend what you said. you keep trying to change the subject.

Robespierre again: “Why does immigration and “waving the British flag” matter more than the drastic cuts in education and basic services for the population?”

Again, I am not deciding what the important issues are. Truthdig does that. Robespierre took that idea and ran with it. Robespierre got dropped his ‘f bomb’ on target. Now he wants to change the subject.

Just for once, Robespiere… either defend what you said or apologize for it.

As I said somewhere else, it’s kind of funny for the English to be complaining about mixed ethnicities and multiculturalism in the the homeland after starting out as an ethnic hodgepodge (Celts, Romans, Germans, French, Danes, Norse) and having run a world empire for a few centuries and afterwards still being one of the great centers of commerce and finance.  They just can’t handle it any more.  It’s probably a sign of the end of the end of Great Britain as a major power.  I wonder if the Welsh and the Scots will be inspired to break away.

I don’t think its racism as much as Islamophobia.
After all, not all Arabs, Africans or Indians are Muslim. Background checks are always necessary to weed out the wackos, but Reason like Charity begins at home.

Robespierre said: “so the EDL are just a bunch of misinterpreted champions of democracy? Please.”

So now you want to bring up the EDL when neither you nor i mentioned the EDL at all so far? Please.

Tobys:

“...trade agreements which allow us to flood their countries with cheap, industrialized food. We have destroyed corn farmers, chicken farmers, etc, and where else do they have to go?”

Oh, I see- All those illegals pouring across our border used to be corn and chicken farmers, priced out of the market by ADM, Conagra, Cargill and Perdue?

Aren’t you one of those who laments big corporations “outsourcing” jobs FROM the US, TO other countries? But now you want it the other way around. You can’t have it both ways.

“Why do the ignorant love to trumpet their stupidity?”- Indeed.

“...said they would consider supporting a new anti-immigration nationalist party that was void of the violence and fascist imagery.”

So, I guess the guys in this picture are OUT!. They look like a Klu Klux Clan meeting after they took the robes off. Or Skinheads after a night on the town. 

Hey Look! There’s Rico in the back row!

You idiots. If you don’t like people from Latin America coming here, you might try opposing so-called trade agreements which allow us to flood their countries with cheap, industrialized food. We have destroyed corn farmers, chicken farmers, etc, and where else do they have to go?

As far as the UK goes, let us remember they have accepted immigrants from their own COLONIES. If they had stayed home and not tried to rule the world, perhaps they would not now have people wanting to escape nations the UK did their best to pillage. See, for example, those of you who know no history, how many farmers in India committed suicide in the nineteenth century because they were being forced to grow indigo rather than food crops by the giant corporation (the East India Company) which essentially controlled the subcontinent.

Why do the ignorant love to trumpet their stupidity?

Robbes:

“drastic cuts in education”?? No, the Brits are not cutting education, they’re tell people they have to pay for it; that it’s no longer free.

“While the Middle East fights for freedom…”

You make it sound like they’re fighting the evil West for their freedom. No, they’re fighting their own (i.e., ethnically, culturally and religiously identical) leaders and power structures. Hatred of the West has very little to do with what’s happening on the streets of the Mideast.

How does, “While ethnic Brits fight for freedom…” sound?

@OzarkMichael, Instead of attacking the “multiculturalists,” why don’t you protest the oligarchy sucking the country dry? Why does immigration and “waving the British flag” matter more than the drastic cuts in education and basic services for the population? Apparently mosques worry some Briths more than social inequality and useless, foreign wars.

@OzarkMichael, so the EDL are just a bunch of misinterpreted champions of democracy? Please. Is that why they go around smashing immigrant-owned stores and terrorizing communities? While the Middle East fights for freedom, the Brits and French and the Swedes are turning into ranting, paranoid lunatics yearning for a fascist party to make them feel safe. Your pathetic brand of nationalism will only lead to ruin.

By Robespierre115: “It looks like the fascist UK of films like “V For Vendetta” and “Children Of Men” will soon become a reality. How sad.”

It looks like the people of the UK would like to fly the English flag again after the multiculturalists took them down because certain immigrants were offended. Maybe English people are a little more proud of their heritage than we thought.

Truthdig pulls the old switcheroo, and blurs that fact with more radical views and presents it as fascism. The photograph always helps the almost illiterate Truthdig readers to draw the desired conclusion.

Robespierre falls for it as usual. How sad.

14 REASONS WHY AMERICA IS GOING BROKE!

1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare
to illegal aliens each year by state governments.
2. $22 Billion dollars a year is spent on food
assistance programs such as food stamps,
WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on
Medicaid for illegal aliens.
4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on
primary and secondary school education
for children here illegally and they
cannot speak a word of English!
5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for
education for the American-born
children of illegal aliens, known as
anchor babies.
6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to
incarcerate illegal aliens.
7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison
inmates are illegal aliens.
8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on
illegal aliens for Welfare & social
services by the American taxpayers.
9. $200 Billion dollars a year in suppressed
American wages are caused by the illegal
aliens.
10. The illegal aliens in the United States
have a crime rate that’s two and a half
times that of white non-illegal aliens.
In particular, their children are going
to make a huge additional crime
problem in the U.S.
11. During the year of 2005, there were 4
to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that
crossed our Southern Border, also,
as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from
Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds
of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and
marijuana, crossed into the US from
the Southern border.
12. The National policy Institute estimated
that the total cost of mass deportation
would be between $206 and $230 billion
or an average cost of between $41 and
$46 billion annually over a five year
period.
13. In 2006, illegal aliens sent home
$45 BILLION in remittances to their
countries of origin.
14. The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration:
Nearly One million sex crimes committed
by Illegal Immigrants In The United States .

EDL, ENGLISH DEFENSE LEAGUE, young people who know they
are getting the shaft, and middle east people in the
street, yes another French Revolution globally, Good
luck boys hand in there eventually the old farts will
get of the way, in the mean time get mean nasty wear
them down, yes EDL:

Unfortunately, racism does tend to play a large part in the anit-immigration movement, especially in europe and the US. But they have been the primary locales for most of the 21st century exodus from the third world (and in the US case, we had it coming. It was after all our imperialist and facist policies in central and south america in the past 60 years that have directly led to our immigration problem).

What we are seeing in the UK and USA are the beginings of far more restrictive immigration policies. The walls are going up in a last ditch effort to prevent the starving third world from migrating to the first world in an effort to avoid the our changing climate, and the poverty and religious fanaticism that is causing it.

It looks like the fascist UK of films like “V For Vendetta” and “Children Of Men” will soon become a reality. How sad.

It is a tight rope to walk trying to look after one’s citizens without ones appearance being transmogrified in the media into racism. (flag-waving masses dont help the effect)
A distinction must be made between ignorant jingoism and managing a stable integrated society
Stable attractive nations have selective immigration policies.  The selection criteria should be two tiered.  Firsty that the immigrant will contribute to society.  Secondly circumstances such as asylum and or refugees where one can help.
Ever try to emigrate to Australia, NZ, or Nordic countries.  Difficult to say the least.  They have selection criteria.