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Ear to the Ground

Statement From Tea Party Express on Arizona Shooting

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Posted on Jan 8, 2011
teapartyexpress.org

The following statement was released by one of the more prominent tea party groups in response to the Saturday shooting in Arizona that killed six people, including a federal judge, and injured 12 more, including a Democratic congresswoman.

Tea Party Express Chairman Amy Kremer issued the following statement today:

“We at the Tea Party Express are shocked and saddened to hear about the terrible tragedy that took place in Tucson today. It is appalling that anyone would commit such unthinkable violence against Congresswoman Gabrielle Gifford[s], her staff, a sitting federal judge and the many other victims and families impacted. 

“These heinous crimes have no place in America, and they are especially grievous when committed against our elected officials. Spirited debate is desirable in our country, but it only should be the clash of ideas. An attack on anyone for political purposes, if that was a factor in this shooting, is an attack on the democratic process. We join with everyone in vociferously condemning it.

“Our thoughts and prayers will be with all those affected today as the details unfold.”

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JDmysticDJ's avatar

By JDmysticDJ, January 17, 2011 at 5:32 pm Link to this comment

In response to the long list of actual murders and death threats perpetrated by right-wing nuts, GRYMie points to an altercation between a victim of the shooting and a Tea Party leader. I’ll suggest that mental health counseling would be appropriate for all victims of the shooting, and that the authorities knew this, and ordering such was not out of the ordinary, given what occurred.

GRYMie equates a bomb threat with actual acts of terrorism by saying, “It’s doubly ironic that these terroristic threats — and that’s what they are — took place on the eighth anniversary of 9/11, an irony apparently lost on the nutcases trying to disrupt a peaceful demonstration.  It’s simply despicable.”

The “nutcases” are evident on both sides of this aggravated political climate, but there is and has been no immoral equivalency. GRYMie needs to check his own shell for cracks.

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By JDmysticDJ, January 17, 2011 at 7:56 am Link to this comment

GRYMie’s mystery quote, which he seems to feel has some great significance in this debate, was written by Ted Kaczynski (Uni-bomber) and is taken from Kaczynski’s “Industrial Society and its Future,” diatribe.

If GRYMie had any real knowledge of Kaczynski’s deranged excuse for using violence he would have been aware of the chapter from that screed entitled “The Danger of Leftism,” and his analysis of the Left, “The Psychology of Modern Leftism” from Kaczynski’s anti-social ravings.

Here are two examples from that screed.

“213. Because of their need for rebellion and for membership in a movement, leftists or persons of similar psychological type are often attracted to a rebellious or activist movement whose goals and membership are not initially leftist. The resulting influx of leftish types can easily turn a non-leftist movement into a leftist one, so that leftist goals replace or distort the original goals of the movement.”
“214. To avoid this, a movement that exalts nature and opposes technology must take a resolutely anti-leftist stance and must avoid all collaboration with leftists. Leftism is in the long run inconsistent with wild nature, with human freedom and with the elimination of modern technology. Leftism is collectivist; it seeks to bind together the entire world (both nature and the human race) into a unified whole. But this implies management of nature and of human life by organized society, and it requires advanced technology. You can’t have a united world without rapid transportation and communication, you can’t make all people love one another without sophisticated psychological techniques, you can’t have a “planned society” without the necessary technological base. Above all, leftism is driven by the need for power, and the leftist seeks power on a collective basis, through identification with a mass movement or an organization. Leftism is unlikely ever to give up technology, because technology is too valuable a source of collective power.”

I suspect that GRYMie was aware of Kaczynski’s anti-Left perspective, and that is why he failed to directly attribute the quotation, which is typical of GRYMie’s disingenuous obfuscation, and intentional distortion history.

Regarding GRYMie’s other examples, which he offers most tautologically. I’ll stand by my previous analysis. Totalitarian Marxism morphs into a reactionary, authoritarian, right-wing philosophy which is the result of an implementation of an errant, theoretical, failed, utopian left-wing political philosophy.

Marxism is only advocated by a tiny fringe element from the Left. Social Democracy is the preference of the overwhelming majority of people from the Left. Social Democracy does not exclude the Right from participation in the democratic process; it only seeks to defeat the Right at the ballot box.

It’s my belief that defeating the Right at the ballot box is of the utmost importance, and that avoiding a continuation of atrocity causing imperialism, and achieving progress in social justice are dependent on the hoped for defeat of the Right. My ultimate hope is that the right-wing philosophy will shrink in popularity to the point where it will become so small that it will be inadvertently flushed down a metaphorical bath tub drain, and that no one will notice its journey into the sewage system.

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By Go Right Young Man, January 16, 2011 at 12:52 pm Link to this comment

It seems Ms. Gifford had the same weapon on her in which young Loughner used on that horrible day.  How terribly sad.

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By Go Right Young Man, January 16, 2011 at 10:12 am Link to this comment

Bomb threat against Tea Party organizers
posted at 1:18 pm on September 12, 2009

The Washington DC Tea Party appears to be a big success, but it’s not for lack of trying among the movement’s more lunatic opponents.  Yesterday, the DC Metro police evacuated the offices of Freedomworks after several threats, including a bomb-threat phone call that police considered credible enough to investigate:

We owe a big thanks to the Metro police for keeping things secure, but they shouldn’t have had to waste their time in the first place.  It’s doubly ironic that these terroristic threats — and that’s what they are — took place on the eighth anniversary of 9/11, an irony apparently lost on the nutcases trying to disrupt a peaceful demonstration.  It’s simply despicable.

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By Go Right Young Man, January 16, 2011 at 10:07 am Link to this comment

After Week of Blaming Tea Party, Tea Party Leaders Now Receiving Death Threats

While praying for the recovery of the Safeway victims all last week, we also documented the media’s attempts to defame the tea party by tying the actions of Jared Loughner to the conservative movement — all of this done while lecturing America on civility and rhetoric:

The result? Death threats against Sarah Palin are at an all-time high,. Big Journalism contributor Liberty Chick, talk radio host Jon Justice, and more hardworking conservatives and tea party activists than I can expediently include, including many who do not wish for their circumstances to be known as they are fearful for their families. Yesterday during a taping for a national broadcast, Tucson Tea Party organizer Trent Humphries had his life threatened on camera by Eric Fuller, a victim of the Safeway shootings.

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By Go Right Young Man, January 16, 2011 at 10:00 am Link to this comment

Another in a series of dozens of threats against the Tea Party because bigots can’t control their hatred.

Tucson shooting victim arrested after making threat
7:10am EST

TUCSON, Arizona (Reuters) - A victim of last week’s Arizona shooting rampage was arrested on Saturday and ordered to undergo a mental evaluation after threatening a Tea Party leader during the taping of a television show, police said.

James Eric Fuller, 63, who was shot in the knee on January 8, objected to comments from Trent Humphries, leader of the conservative Tea Party political movement in Tucson, during taping of a town hall meeting organized for an ABC News special program on the aftermath of the shootings.

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By SuperMike1661, January 15, 2011 at 10:06 pm Link to this comment

JDmysticDJ

Yes, well, you reached out to GRYM with a moderate hand… and HE DROOLED IN IT.


I believe that you are correct in saying that he is now permanently unmasked as a simple, name-calling provocateur (and probably paid-propagandist)... not a man of reason or enlightenment.

Additionally, he was caught using fabricated quotations of the President of the United States.

But WORST OF ALL, he is a Sayer of Murder… One Who Points the Way to Future Death.

I leave him to you. Of what use such sin drenched person might be, I can not say.

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By Go Right Young Man, January 15, 2011 at 4:47 pm Link to this comment

Super_1

135 posts in the last ten days?  What a prolific young man you are.

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By Go Right Young Man, January 15, 2011 at 4:31 pm Link to this comment

SuperFreaky_1,

Think about “our” list and think about what all of you see on the list.  In fact you can look back at the list of violent and vitriolic behaviors I shared also.  What do all these people have in common?

They’re all unstable individuals.  It’s what I’ve been writing on this entire thread.  Every flavor of politics has it’s Moonbats and extremists.  Only small-minded bigots believe otherwise.

And still, a week later and countless blog and news items past, there is absolutely no evidence, whatsoever, that young Loughner was influenced by the so-called right side of politics.  It appears that he’s a Mein Kampf reading 9/11 Truther posing in a red G-string with a weapon at his crotch and the belief in an global Oligarchy.

Sounds like an avid TruthDig regular.  wink

You may wish to put your vast team of researchers to task on Ted Kaczynski, Pol Pot, Stalin, Adi Amin Dada, Fidel Castro, Slobodan Miloševic and Hugo Chavez.  These greatly known “Leftists” collectively murdered over 100 million human beings.

-

You’re not alone, Super_1.  After reading a small handful of your opinions I know you’ll appreciate the following quote.  The man who wrote it shared your same sense of passion.

“Our society tends to regard as a sickness any mode of thought or behavior that is inconvenient for the system and this is plausible because when an individual doesn’t fit into the system it causes pain to the individual as well as problems for the system. Thus the manipulation of an individual to adjust him to the system is seen as a cure for a sickness and therefore as good.”

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By SuperMike1661, January 15, 2011 at 3:25 pm Link to this comment

JDmysticDJ

Yes, well of course, your ever-moderate hand is to be respected here.  It was you, after all, who brought this shocking list of ongoing atrocities to our attention.

Now if GRYM would acknowledge that the REST of the list is in order… then we will REPEAT our extensive research on the Holocaust denier and right-wing tax protester, James Von Brunn, and we will publish the results.

Note: The Austin killing was done by a hero of the Right Wing Tax Protesters… they are stuck with him.

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By JDmysticDJ, January 15, 2011 at 2:55 pm Link to this comment

Corrections are valuable. They facilitate truth, and point out demagoguery. I’ll suggest that the incidents in question should be clarified, or deleted from the list. However, the preponderance is clear, and the motivations are also clear, and the motivators of the preponderant have also been identified.

GRYMie should be thanked for the corrections, and for the reminiscence. It has been a long time since I’ve heard that particular pejorative used during political dialogue. I can recall that pejorative being used by ugly, unappealing, war mongering, baboons lacking a cogent argument, who occupied their time by throwing poop. Ah, the good old days!

The world of fashion is sometimes interesting to contemplate. It’s interesting to note how trend setters set the style, while those devoid of taste become obsolete and are rejected by those who aspire to being stylish. Poor GRYMie, someone should tell him that wearing overhauls and spitting tobacco are no longer fashionable.

Once again angry vitriolic rhetoric has reared its ugly head. GRYMie needs instruction in the finer art of insult. A good and clever insult first needs to have some substance to it, and secondly it should be delivered with humor, intellect, and maturity. Calling someone a doo doo head won’t have credence, or elicit approval, from any but pre-Schoolers and the mentally challenged.

It’s also interesting to note that GRYMie’s false persona of being a knowledgeable refined gentleman has devolved into the more correct persona of an angry hateful epithet shrieking cretin. I wonder why?

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By SuperMike1661, January 15, 2011 at 2:44 pm Link to this comment

James von Brunn was a well known Right Winger and Nazi!

It is disgusting to watch Right Wing “Slaughter Deniers” refuse to support their people after they have done WHAT THEY WERE TOLD TO DO.

We will continue to hang these murders around the necks of those who who built and energized the killing ROBOTS.

Disgusting Slaughter Deniers will be IGNORED in future.

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By Go Right Young Man, January 15, 2011 at 2:20 pm Link to this comment

Hey, Freakshow, James von Brunn is a self-described 9/11 Truther, hated Jews, Dick Cheney, George Bush and believed the Federal Government is run by the Military Industrial Complex. 

Hating Jews does not make one a conservative.  Anti Jewish screeds are found on this Web space weekly.

James von Brunn never wrote or spoke a word on the subject of Obama’s citizenship.  That was later added as speculation by some in the media and blogs.  His own writings and testimony in Federal Court are available to the public.

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By SuperMike1661, January 15, 2011 at 1:52 pm Link to this comment

On June 10, 2009, James von Brunn, an 88-year-old neo-Nazi, walked into the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, D.C., killed a 40-year-old African-American security guard, Officer Stephen Tyrone Johns, and wounded several others. Von Brunn had previously served six years in prison for attempting to kidnap members of the Federal Reserve at gunpoint. A note left in his car read, “You want my weapons, this is how you’ll get them…the Holocaust is a lie…Obama was created by Jews. Obama does what his Jew owners tell him to. Jews captured America’s money. Jews control the mass media.”

AND???

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By SuperMike1661, January 15, 2011 at 1:40 pm Link to this comment

Go Right Young Man

YOU ARE CORRECT. ONCE THE RIGHT WING ROBOTS ARE UNLEASHED BY THE N E V E R E N D I N G agitation.. an occasional Right Wing body DOES fall.

This is called Blue on Blue causality.

and?

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By Go Right Young Man, January 15, 2011 at 1:31 pm Link to this comment

Super61.

Hey, Freakshow, check the veracity of your list.  Copying and pasting from the internet is never enough.

James Von Brunn, on your list of “right-wing” crazies, actually wrote a 28 page diatribe on how much he hated conservatives.

And the software engineer, the one furious with the Internal Revenue Service, spoke in Federal Court about the evil Dick Cheney running the White House.

LOL…...........and you bigots claim everyone but liberals are freaks?

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By SuperMike1661, January 15, 2011 at 1:08 pm Link to this comment

We are updating our list of ongoing Right Wing murders.  Post this list far and wide.  Corporation Media does not want you to know.

This latest list contains the murders of February 2010: A software engineer furious with the Internal Revenue Service launched a suicide attack on the agency by crashing his small plane into an office building containing nearly 200 IRS employees, setting off a raging fire, killing two. The suicide note stated, “Violence is not only the answer, it is the only answer…”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

THE RIGHT WING MURDER CAMPAIGN… WILL IT NEVER END?
supermike1661 Version 1.1 updated on 1/15/2011

Post this list far and wide.  Corporation Media does not want you to know.

—July 2008: A gunman named Jim David Adkisson, agitated at how “liberals” are “destroying America,” walks into a Unitarian Church and opens fire, killing two churchgoers and wounding four others.

—October 2008: Two neo-Nazis are arrested in Tennessee in a plot to murder dozens of African-Americans, culminating in the assassination of President Obama.

—December 2008: A pair of “Patriot” movement radicals—the father-son team of Bruce and Joshua Turnidge, who wanted “to attack the political infrastructure”—threaten a bank in Woodburn, Oregon, with a bomb in the hopes of extorting money that would end their financial difficulties, for which they blamed the government. Instead, the bomb goes off and kills two police officers. The men eventually are convicted and sentenced to death for the crime.

—December 2008: In Belfast, Maine, police discover the makings of a nuclear “dirty bomb” in the basement of a white supremacist shot dead by his wife. The man, who was independently wealthy, reportedly was agitated about the election of President Obama and was crafting a plan to set off the bomb.

—January 2009: A white supremacist named Keith Luke embarks on a killing rampage in Brockton, Mass., raping and wounding a black woman and killing her sister, then killing a homeless man before being captured by police as he is en route to a Jewish community center.

—February 2009: A Marine named Kody Brittingham is arrested and charged with plotting to assassinate President Obama. Brittingham also collected white-supremacist material.

—April 2009: A white supremacist named Richard Poplawski opens fire on three Pittsburgh police officers who come to his house on a domestic-violence call and kills all three, because he believed President Obama intended to take away the guns of white citizens like himself.
Poplawski is currently awaiting trial.
—April 2009: Another gunman in Okaloosa County, Florida, similarly fearful of Obama’s purported gun-grabbing plans, kills two deputies when they come to arrest him in a domestic-violence matter, then is killed himself in a shootout with police.

—May 2009: A “sovereign citizen” named Scott Roeder walks into a church in Wichita, Kansas, and assassinates abortion provider Dr. George Tiller.

—June 2009: A Holocaust denier and right-wing tax protester named James Von Brunn opens fire at the Holocaust Museum, killing a security guard.

—February 2010: A software engineer furious with the Internal Revenue Service launched a suicide attack on the agency by crashing his small plane into an office building containing nearly 200 IRS employees, setting off a raging fire, killing two.  The suicide note stated, “Violence is not only the answer, it is the only answer…”

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By Leefeller, January 15, 2011 at 10:48 am Link to this comment

JDmysticDJ,

Well aimed synopses, possibly because I am in agreement,  good form and creditably. though we know it goes in one ear and out the other of those who need to understand it. I am glad I read the whole thing or I would have missed the satire in the end;......very pointed!

Mike, interesting premise on the influencing of the conservative mind which seems to me a lucid dream, your proposed idea may have some wind behind its sails.

As I have said many times, the right wing mind makes nonsense!

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By JDmysticDJ, January 15, 2011 at 10:05 am Link to this comment

I wish GRYMie would quit yelling so loud, it’s hurting my ears.

There is no lie. The preponderance of violence comes from the Right, nationally and internationally, and has come from the Right throughout the ages.

It’s a waste of time and energy trying to get the Right to acknowledge responsibility for the political climate, even if the Right were to recognize their responsibility, they wouldn’t admit it. Oh…! the Right is not done attempting to blame the left for this tragedy. Texas Republican, Tea Partier, Louie Gohmert just accused the FBI of hiding evidence proving Loughner was a liberal. Ghomert claims the FBI is concealing evidence because that evidence would discredit Obama and the Democrats. The Tea Party has a high incidence of whack jobs, they always have had, and they always will have.

Personally, I think all this focus on Palin’s map with crosshairs is demagoguery, and talk about gun and military metaphors is much adieu about nothing. However, Sarah’s comments about, “Palling around with terrorists,” “Death Panels,” and her latest, “Blood libel,” did not contribute to a healthy political climate. However, this bleeding heart liberal feels kind of sorry for poor Sarah, so I’ll give her some ammunition for her war on the Left. This left-winger believes the Health Care Insurance Companies are blood suckers, I believe the Military Industrial Complex needs a steady flow of blood in order to thrive, and I believe that calling for blood is a regular part of the Right’s rituals. The Right’s openly displaying guns at political rallies, and in political campaign ads and offering contributors at Republican fund raisers the opportunity to shoot assault weapons at targets representing Democrats, and offering an assault rifle as a raffle prize is another story. These incidents, along with comments about “Watering trees with blood…” and “Second Amendment Remedies,” to election results, are not good for the political climate, and those kinds of comments and actions do influence crazies like Loughner and some Tea Partiers.

Loughner hasn’t been the first, and he probably won’t be the last. There are people, who are currently residing in cells because of death threats and murders, who have acknowledged that Glen Beck has been their guru and their teacher. The first time I heard someone from the Left say that Beck would instigate lunatics to violence, I thought it was hyperbole, I was wrong. Beck is only the most outrageous of the Pied Pipers leading the children into oblivion, there are other more subtle pipers, and these poor mislead children are being manipulated, and exploited by the Right.

I’ll admit to being wrong in another respect, but GRYMie shouldn’t get his hopes up. I was wrong when I said death threats against Obama have doubled, they have gone up by 400%, and death threats against Democrats have gone up by 300%. The political climate has deteriorated rapidly since Obama was elected. In Tucson the old timers say this latest campaign was the worst they’ve ever seen. Loughner’s head was empty of rational thinking, but he did not live in a vacuum, and the idea that he was not influenced by the rhetoric and imagery is absurd.

Fred Phelps has said: “Thank God for this violent shooter.” Of course Phelps isn’t representative of the overwhelming majority of right-wingers, but the comment is remarkable just the same.

Coming up will be a debate about whether Loughner should be treated as a criminal, or be ruled criminally insane. This bleeding heart liberal will argue that this poor demented soul is insane, and he should be treated as such. The Right will call for blood, as is their custom.

(more)

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By JDmysticDJ, January 15, 2011 at 9:54 am Link to this comment

#2

GRYMie, stand before the court.

Old man, you have been: Defeated, and convicted, you have exhausted your appeals, and you have been found guilty by judicial officers of the highest court. The bailiff will instruct you to put your hands behind your head and Go Left Old Man, (Towards the re-education camp.)

I’m jesting. I’m convinced GRYMie will live a long, deluded, irrational life, and die a natural death, unlike his victims. I’m also convinced that GRYMie will take his insidious disease with him into his grave. Bless the healers who will work to prevent him from spreading this insidious disease.

(Wow Man! I’m getting a rush just like Beck must get… or is it… a Beck, just like Rush must get?)

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By SuperMike1661, January 14, 2011 at 11:25 pm Link to this comment

HOW TO DRIVE THE MASSES TO KILL… ACCIDENTALLY

Let us assume that there really ARE such things as highly sophisticated PR campaigns that go awry on occasion.  How do they start, and how do they end?

Such campaigns ALWAYS BEGIN with an analysis of the undefined FORCES IN THE MIND of the target population.  Via highly controlled focus group analyses, the Undefined becomes Defined.

A sophisticated PR operation, FOX NEWS CHANNEL is one, has a complete analysis of these Forces. It MIGHT be a controlled distribution, 542 page, spiral bound notebook AND NEVER A COMPUTER FILE!

Once the natural Forces in the Target’s mind are defined, for example, “my culture is being polluted by immigrants”, then a Narrative can be applied to that Pollution Force that operationalizes it… makes it USEFUL for POLITICAL OPERATIONS. 

A Narrative line might be, “immigrants are destroying the Concept of Christmas”.

As I drive this Narrative over the years, I condition the anger that is ALREADY in the Target’s mind. I CONDITION it so that this anger can be CONNECTED to OTHER Forces that ARE NOT in the Target’s mind… “Obama” for instance.

Obama is an Immigrant… ergo, Obama is “destroying” Christmas.

In this way I take natural, free floating anger, and shape and direct it. If this were a real story, it now has a fatal flaw… at least it would be fatal to anyone but a real PR professional… like say Mr. Roger Ailes.

^^^^^^The little flaw in this technique is that occasionally a disturbed gunman who is ultra-sensitive WILL BE DRIVEN OVER THE TOP TO MURDER. This is understood and accepted by the PR professional… these are “acceptable losses” to him.^^^^^^

A complete analysis of the Anger Forces for the United States Right Wing will cost a few hundred thousand dollars, and needs to be updated Quarterly via subscription. A top-of-the-line expert on the American middle class, Frank Luntz for example, will charge a Million.

If such campaigns really existed they would be very valuable to people who needed to MOBILIZE already angry Americans.  Such campaigns would be the pride and joy of great media owners. These campaigns might be the real POWER that such owners manifest….. no chaos, no chance, just STATISTICALLY ANALYZED FOCUS GROUPS WITH plus or minus 5 percent accuracy.

keep on blogging… your grandchild will be asking you what you DID for her when she was in grade school…. before they made her carry her permanent GPS smart-phone for HER counter-terrorism safety.

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By SuperMike1661, January 14, 2011 at 8:31 pm Link to this comment

This latest corporate poll by Gallup shows that 42% of respondents thought that fiery rhetoric was at least a part of the cause to murder.

This is a surprising admission from a reliable corporate source.

The slaughter at Tuscon is the first sign of real awareness in the mass polity that it is being manipulated.

This is an important event in the Political Awareness of the American mass.

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By SuperMike1661, January 14, 2011 at 8:16 pm Link to this comment

It is often claimed by the paid defenders of Corporate Power that THERE IS NO CORPORATE CONSPIRACY.

This is so true! The truth of CORPORATE power is less obvious.

Like the Laws of Physics that bind an Electron to the Nucleus, the Corporation was OPENLY designed to ACT openly for its secret FUNDERS… who control it. Thus we see the true FUNDER-face of Goldman-GE and its Saudi Princeling Partners.

It IS the FUNDERS WHO CONSPIRE COVERTLY while their CORPORATE robots OPENLY manipulate political systems and entire populations… for the continuous enhancement of the FUNDER’S bottom-line. 

More instructive is how outdated philosophies bind Corporate supporters TO the Robots.  The foolishly dependent Western Middle Classes are presently sentencing their children to centuries of servitude in competition with the Slaves of China. The corporate FUNDERS will grow evermore wealthy, as the Children of Western Middle Classes are so enslaved in competition with the FUNDER’S Chinese Corporate Robots. Thus do the Paid Supporters of Corporate Power sentence their progeny to dark centuries of servitude as foretold by George Orwell.

So we are witnessing the greatest Class-subversion in world history as the Western Middle Class subverts itself. 

How many of you are selling your children’s future so that your Robot Employer can reimburse you at the end of the month?

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By Go Right Young Man, January 14, 2011 at 7:01 pm Link to this comment

Once again, the obvious.  Thank goodness there are so few of you in the world.  You all fall entirely in the minority 20%.

And it’s not a corporate conspiracy either.  Simply put; most people disagree with bigotry.  Most find it reprehensible.

-

Most Doubt Political Rhetoric a Major Factor in Ariz. Shootings

Four in 10 say it was not a factor at all; 22%, a minor factor
by Jeffrey M. Jones

PRINCETON, NJ—A new USA Today/Gallup poll finds Americans dubious that the heated language used in politics today was a major factor that influenced the alleged gunman in last week’s shootings in Tucson, Ariz. Twenty percent say such rhetoric was a major factor in the shootings, while 22% cite it as a minor factor; 42% say it was not a factor at all. Democrats are more likely than independents or Republicans to believe political debate played a role.


Drop the hate folks.  It’s unbecoming.

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By SuperMike1661, January 14, 2011 at 6:02 pm Link to this comment

Before I leave this board, I will post an email address so that AntiCorps who are prepared for political organizing can “keep in touch”.  Below is our conceptual overview for Strategic Planning to Counter Corporatist Power in the United States. (for those in Europe and Asia, I will forward your contacts to regional personnel.)  We are not violent people. We are political persons who wish to see our children grow up outside the penumbrae of Corporatist Requirement to Enslave.

THE IMMEDIATE OBJECTIVE:

We need to coalesce a coherent set of ideas VERY QUICKLY.  We cannot unite an AntiCorp party (or any kind of party) without ideology.

Parties need ideology first. The Republican Party probably had its real birth when Lincoln spoke at Copper Union in New York, February 1860. There he set out the party’s anti-slavery principals AND also made himself the logical person to lead. But the IDEAS came first.

Strategically and quickly, we also probably need to embrace or reject the concept that there are useful allies on the Right who fear the forces of global consolidated wealth more than we do.

NOTES:

Those who want to participate in this Open Project can step forth via Truthdig now, or you can wait for our general email address.

Keep in mind that “Organizing” for political action is not blogging.  You must be flexible enough to see that your political allies have ideas that are not like yours, but they have an overriding need to work with YOU… for survival in this case.

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By SuperMike1661, January 14, 2011 at 5:20 pm Link to this comment

There are very few, IMHO, persons here who have a clear view of the huge forces that are presently on-the-move in the United States.  We try to inform even those who are hopelessly enthralled by outdated philosophical constraints.  So for the use of the few fully mature AntiCorp thinkers here, I am copying a recent post that I made to another topic on Turthdig, “Perps in the White House”. 

I will be on Truthdig for only a few more days… if current plans hold.  I do not expect a rousing greeting here, but we have definitely met new people who are fully politicized for the 21st century.

“felicity

In normal times, pre-globalization times, I would agree with you.  Presently however, we are engaged in Resisting the permanent suppression of the people by Technologically Empowered Elites who seek only to enhance their wealth and position in a resource-depleting world.

Once the FUNDERS of Rightest power in the United States have achieved their goal of legal ownership of the Planet, we can expect NO MERCY from them. Saudi Princes and Goldman-GE have only ONE OBJECTIVE: Never Ending Enhancement of Command and Control.

I do not expect you to overcome your 19th Century philosophy to become active in this fight, but at least you can KNOW what we believe the fight is about.  We are peaceable people, but we are being slaughtered. The continuing MURDERS OF Progressive people has already begun (did I document that here?). These ongoing murders are the FUNDER’S signal that they have set no limits to this final battle for Global Control.  We believe that we can push this Corporate power into the political gutter without letting blood as they do… Tuscon being only their most recent Wet Operation. 

Good Luck to You.”

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By SuperMike1661, January 14, 2011 at 4:36 pm Link to this comment

Leefeller

I SALUTE YOU! Going back and re-reading JD’s posts was a gutsy thing to do. Then publishing your apology was almost as gutsy as the re-reading.

These last few days, especially with the funeral of the Baby who played baseball, has been very stressful for many people, and your “learning process”, so openly displayed, is enormously admirable.

What it the situation now on the ground?

The Positional Propaganda Game has stabilized.  Glenn, Sarah and Rush are now pushed back on their heels, and will temporarily moderate.

HOWEVER, The Right and its funders, from Saudi Princes to Goldman-GE, are now ADDICTED to the political gains that they made in the last cycle by Incitement to Murder.  Because The Right’s funders are experiencing an ever-shrinking Base (white people mostly), they MUST continue to aggressively incite their shrinking forces. THIS MEANS MORE MURDERS… A CONTINUATION OF THE SLAUGHTER THAT BEGAN VIA THEIR INCITEMENT IN 2008.

For the long run, the next ten years, Progressive Forces in the West will have to tolerate these Wet Operations until we can reorganize our forces and push Corporatist Power into the political gutter.  This will be a race to the finish: Can they enslave us, re 1984, before we contain their enormous power to enslave and murder?

If THEY WIN we can look forward to Centuries of dark enslavement re George Orwell…maybe Millennia.

We need to

1. URGENTLY restructure our ideology, including a bond with the AntiCorp forces of the Right.

2. Aggressively compensate for the Corporate Media’s FAILER-TO-REPORT the ongoing slaughter of Progressive People.  Keep publishing and building the Murder List.

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By Go Right Young Man, January 14, 2011 at 11:35 am Link to this comment

President Bush was the only President-Elect in American history unable to make the customary walk to the capital on inauguration day, as democrats were throwing things at him.

“I hate President George W. Bush. There, I said it.”

“George Bush hates black people” 

“Save America, Kill Republicans”

“Smoke Out The Taliban But Kill Republicans”

“The world will endure four more years of idiocy. - John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, John Hinckley Jr. — where are you now that we need you?”

It’s hard to locate more hate, vitriol, calls to violence and assignation than the above.

-

What are we to make of Obama’s warning of “hand-to-hand combat” if the Republicans take over; or his comment that one of his supporters could “tear [Sean Hannity] up”; or his Untouchables boast that “if they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun”; or his advice to supporters of his presidential campaign to argue with Republicans and independents and “get in their face”- treat them as the “Enemy”?

Why would a president boast about figuring out “whose ass to kick,” or, in a climate of fear about terrorism, call his opponents “hostage takers”?

In a post-9/11 world, is it prudent for the commander-in-chief to say of his political opponents, “Here’s the problem: It’s almost like they’ve got — they’ve got a bomb strapped to them and they’ve got their hand on the trigger. You don’t want them to blow up”?

Do we really wish to tie crude presidential metaphors, similes, and bombast to the next violent attack on a conservative political figure? Are we to suggest that President Obama’s occasional indiscretions have created a climate of fear that someday will lead to violence against his political adversaries? Or, did Obama merely from time to time indulge in sloppy thinking and clumsy expression? Even as someone who did not vote for Barack Obama, I do not think the president’s ill-advised and juvenile similes and allusions will ever drive a liberal extremist into “bringing a gun” to a political fight or literally “tearing up” a political opponent.

If Arthur Bremmer hated racists and admired black politicians, did such feelings feed on mainstream liberals’ fears of segregationists, and did they alone result in his shooting of George Wallace?

There is no consistent evidence that the Kaczynskis or Squeaky Frommes of the world are less numerous than the McVeighs. If political fervor inspires extremism, is there any evidence that states’-rights zealotry prompts more terrorism than, say, radical environmentalism? Are left-wing nuts more or less numerous than right-wing nuts — and more or less likely to translate warped politics into pulling a trigger? If Sarah Palin has used crosshairs imagery, has the Democratic-party hierarchy never used shooting-range targets to illustrate their electoral strategy to unseat Republicans?

If crazed gunmen are sadly a periodic characteristic of American culture, so are political vultures who scavenge political capital as they pick through the horrific violence.

-

Unhinged public discourse is thrown from all sides.  Don’t allow individuals here on TruthDig to lie with impunity.  Don’t allow haters here to get away with suggesting violence comes only from one side of politics.

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By Leefeller, January 14, 2011 at 10:57 am Link to this comment

JDmysticDJ,

Chastising me did its job, my only excuse is I was tired and did not read your two posts past the first few paragraphs beyond the right and left shootings, a gave mistake on my part;  after going over your posts, now all the way though them, please accept my apologies, they are very well done and I learned something about myself at the same time.

Comprehension of the conservative thought processes has always eluded me, your double posts explain them very well and I need to review them once more and will keep your posts for review.

People handle tragedy in different ways, my satire comes from my military experiences and can be inappropriate at times especially to others, for me it is a coping mechanism.

One thing I try not to do is be emotional with my political opinions, though people like GRYM make it very hard, with his, what I perceive as constant insulting of ones intelligence, hence yet another coping mechanism for me using satire.

Stupid and silly as the right portrays themselves to me, I know they can be deadly and they will never accept accountably for then they would be dead in the water, hence;... why we once again see so clearly the circling of their wagons!

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By Inherit The Wind, January 14, 2011 at 10:15 am Link to this comment

Wait,..... don’t shoot until you see the whites of their eyes!
*************

So keep drinkin’ that korn likker and they’ll stay blood-shot instead….

JD’s impressive treatise aside, the Reagan’s would-be killer voted for the party of Jody Foster (much to her dismay), not knowing she was doubly unapproachable as she recently came out.

The two attempted killers of Jerry Ford were both products of the late 60’s/early 70’s violent far Left. Yes, it was real. Yes, it existed. Yes, it was SQUASHED by both Democrats and Republicans working together. They showed themselves to be failures anyway…and 35 years ahead of the Far Right, the Far Left abandoned violence.  (besides, there hasn’t been a more likable Republican President than Jerry Ford since Ike—who’d want to hurt Jerry? Besides, he was also by far, EASILY the BEST GOP President since Ike). 

All that is known about Arthur Bremer is that he wanted to kill SOMEONE famous—and I’m not sure he cared who.  He stalked other candidates that year.

There have been a lot of killers due to the easy availability of guns, and the apparent eagerness of dealers to sell them (It’s still a mystery how Loughner raised the dosh for his fancy gun and magazines). There’s also been a growing use of military metaphors in more than tough-guy and athlete-speak—it’s now used by politicians who’ve gone from “My worthy opponent” to “pals around with terrorists”.

But Loughner clearly had a thing about immigrants, and that Gabby Giffords was against the most draconian immigration laws.  That makes it a political terrorist crime, and follows the Far Right’s agenda on immigration.

Despite the spin-meisters who will have us thinking he was a liberal agent (!!!!!!)

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By Go Right Young Man, January 14, 2011 at 8:31 am Link to this comment

Rep. James Clyburn (D-SC) has been an outspoken critic of the use of so-called violent or vitriolic political rhetoric. Specifically, he has bemoaned references to targeting candidates or any type of reference to guns.

On MSNBC yesterday afternoon he said President Obama had to put on a “double barrel” effort at the memorial service in Arizona the night before.

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By JDmysticDJ, January 14, 2011 at 8:15 am Link to this comment

Leefeller

Your conclusion from my post is unfair; people from the Right are only better shots because they get more practice. They sometimes practice shooting at representations of Democratic politicians.

Obviously I’ve wasted my time where you’re concerned. I like satire, but I find yours to be a little vague and pointless.

Damn! Just when I thought we were developing a meeting of the minds.

Bigot Brain

The issue is the creation of a “Political climate.” Loughner planned his act, why didn’t he plan to attack the Community College that told him he was crazy, and threw him out? My guess is that he thought killing this politician and her supporters would be more acceptable, and heroic.

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By SuperMike1661, January 13, 2011 at 10:51 pm Link to this comment

Baseball was in Christina Green’s blood. Her father is a scout for the Los Angeles Dodgers and her grandfather, Dallas Green, managed the 1980 World Series champion Philadelphia Phillies.

She was the only girl on the Pirates, the only one with shoulder-length hair peeking from the green and yellow cap. She brought a mix of playfulness and grit to the team. She spent a week negotiating the terms of a race in the outfield between the players and the coach: kids run forward, coach runs backward, winner gets ice cream. The kids won.

She climbed mesquite trees after practice. While playing second base during warm-ups on a hot desert day, she sang a pop song to herself, and quickly brought in the first baseman and right fielder into her chorus.
=======================================================
THIS is the murder which the Right Wing will pay for over and over and over again.  They can deny it forever, but this is the one that plays the capstone to their ongoing use of violent imagery.  Let it NEVER be forgotten.

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By Go Right Young Man, January 13, 2011 at 10:35 pm Link to this comment

Leefeller,

I wish you were not always assuming so much.  I agree with you on gun control.  Hand guns in particular.

And yet there is still no evidence that young Loughner is the product of the right side of American politics.  As has been the subject here, in print news, and blogosphere from the beginning.

There us no evidence, of any kind, that the left does not have it’s equals on the right.  ONLY partisans -bigots if you will- believe in that nonsense.

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By SuperMike1661, January 13, 2011 at 9:10 pm Link to this comment

Leefeller

Nice joke about Leftists being bad shoots.

TELL it to the families of the dead resulting from the NEXT Wet Operation that your people deploy on mine.

Or better yet, tell your joke to the Mom and Dad of the little baby slaughtered by your robot in Tuscon.


Find another topic.

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By Leefeller, January 13, 2011 at 8:58 pm Link to this comment

JDmysticDJ,

What I gather from your statement, is folks on the left are bad shots opposed to the right?  Attempted vs murdered?

GRYM, Is your comment suggesting anything more than the Yin or yan of it?

Wait,..... don’t shoot until you see the whites of their eyes!

The gun metaphors need to stop!

MIke I am saddened by the whole thing too, I really do not know what this shooters motive was, and it really does not matter, it should never have happened! I also believe he should not have had access to a gun and especially one with 30 round clip which is insane.  I dropped out the the NRA back when they fought to allow gun owners to have dum dum rounds, quite a long time ago!

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By JDmysticDJ, January 13, 2011 at 8:44 pm Link to this comment

Due to this latest tragedy, and the national focus on this tragedy, the Right immediately attempted to blame the Left. What’s obvious to any rational person is that the Right’s knee jerk response to this tragedy was a result of feelings of guilt, and a desire to obfuscate their responsibility for this tragedy. Now some from the Right have backed off from its futile effort to blame the left for this tragedy, and have adopted the dialectic of moral equivalency, or more precisely immoral equivalency.

Take GRYMie for example. GRYMie has not acknowledged the Right’s responsibility for this tragedy in any way. Instead GRYMie, whose comments here for over a year or more, have been focused on denying the existence of a dangerous political element. Now that this danger has become manifest, GRYMie seeks to point out immoral equivalency.

GRYMie himself, has not exhibited the worst aspects of vitriolic language, but has instead concentrated on obfuscation, using his Tautological resort to immoral equivalency. GRYMie’s favorite word is bigot, and his accusations of bigotry are tautological in the extreme. From my bigoted perspective, the thing that makes GRYMie’s commentary so hated and intolerable, by me, is his long lasting defense of the most profound and immense evils. I’ll argue that all religious texts, and moral treatises, contain in their passages intolerance of evil. From a strictly humanitarian perspective, some evils are more than worthy of being hated.

GRYMie in his dialectic of immoral equivalency says go ahead, I dare you, for every immorality you point out, I’ll give you another immorality, as if one should negate the other. I’ll argue that there is no equivalency, because the immorality is heavily weighted to the Right.

Yes GRYMie, it’s true that a deranged individual fired shots at Ronald Reagan, wounded Reagan and others, and shot Reagan’s press secretary in the head. I loathed Reagan, and I loathe his legacy. I have considered, and do consider Reagan, to be a perpetrator and de facto supporter of evils so grotesque that they bare some resemblance to the evils demonstrated by Vlad the Impaler. As an aside, I was somewhat amazed when I shed a tear on hearing that Reagan was shot. That assassination attempt was an evil, and it had evil consequences, perhaps my precognition of those evil consequences elicited my tears. My tears were more justifiably shed for the actual best and brightest, brutally liquidated by right – wing demons.  GRYMie will scoff at my contention of a resemblance to Vlad the Impaler, and offer a demeaning indication of ridicule and laughter, but knowledgeable people are aware of the horrific carnage that occurred in Central America during Reagan’s Presidency, and that Reagan and his right – wing advisors and followers, were indifferent to the carnage, and facilitated that carnage. It is not at all irrational to point out that that carnage would not have occurred if not for decades old right - wing foreign policies. Knowledgeable people from the Right, who recognize that carnage, obfuscate and deny culpability, by attributing that carnage to policy not exclusive to the Right, but that argument is specious, the carnage inducing policies were right – wing policies, regardless of a political faction’s added support for those policies.

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By JDmysticDJ, January 13, 2011 at 8:37 pm Link to this comment

#2

Back to considering fallacious equivalency. There were attempts to assassinate Reagan, Gerald Ford, and Gov. George Wallace, and analysis of those events is beyond the scope of this comment, but I’ll argue that the loss of The Kennedys and Martin Luther King demonstrates a clear lack of equivalency. It’s evident that all of the aforementioned assassinations and attempts were evil, and the result of bizarre actions with bizarre political motivations, but when considering immoral equivalencies, other events must also be considered. The tens of thousands of political assassinations that have occurred in Latin America over the last many decades were undeniably perpetrated by right – wing forces. A significant number of those assassinations resulted in the deaths of perceived, and actual, left – wing political and religious leaders. The fact that most of the death resulting assassinations were not of leaders, does not negate the evil of those assassinations. There are other global examples of right – wing assassinations facilitated and instigated by right – wing policy makers. The facts, though disputed or justified from the Right, are that many global political assassinations that occurred during the Cold War were instigated, financed, and approved of by right – wing policy makers from our country, these facts are well documented, and a part of the historical record, but these well documented facts are denied, mitigated, or justified by ideologues from the Right.

Refuting foreseen arguments of immoral equivalencies is necessary in order to shine the light of truth on the reality of responsibility for horrific events perpetrated on human beings by other human beings. My obvious perspective and contention is that right – wing philosophies, proclivities, and actions have brought about horrific events. When examining these horrific events, the Right has, and continues to, blame the victims of horrific events for their victimization, absolving themselves, and claiming that these horrific events were necessary, in order to preserve virtue and the welfare of humanity. This kind of logic is beyond oxymoronic, and can only be perceived as moronic by intelligent thoughtful human beings, but I digress, the issue here is immoral equivalency.

This is the crux of the issue regarding left/right culpability. I’ll argue that this conflict between Left and Right is ages old, and that examples of this conflict are manifest throughout history. Civilizations have risen born of rebellion and new paradigms, and civilizations have fallen replete with persecutions, tyranny, and suppression. The defining characteristic of right – wing philosophy i.e. conservatism, is authoritarian and marked by a desire for preservation of the status quo. Right – wing movements that have overthrown or agitated against an existing status quo, do so because of an advocacy for a previous status quo. Resistance to change, and an advocacy of reactionary policies defines right – wing movements. Totalitarian Marxist regimes that have been repressive and guilty of atrocity have also been motivated by preserving their status quo. Marxism is rightly considered to be a utopian left – wing philosophy, but Marxist totalitarian governments can only be perceived as being authoritarian, notable for their ideological adherence to dogma, and motivated by a preserving of a status quo. It should be clear that the leap I’m making here is towards demonstrating that Totalitarian Marxism begins with a left –wing philosophy, but ends with a right – wing philosophy. Armed insurrection and rebellion to overthrow existing governments can not be   successful in totality, and armed conflict between factions ultimately leads to suppression and atrocity regardless of outcome. The evils that result from such conflicts can only be attributed to the violence that induces the baser human behaviors.

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By SuperMike1661, January 13, 2011 at 7:53 pm Link to this comment

JDmysticDJ these are superb posts.  I salute you.

My own analysis is much simpler. The long list of Right Wing Murders that you posted here is elegant in its simple power of declaration. Ergo, there was NO reason for Leftists to say that the Tuscon Murders were coming, when in fact the Murders where already here… had they only known of your list then.

Finally, I simply look at the ankle deep blood on the ground, some of it baby blood, and I know who did this.  But I also know that Rightest Propagandists who manipulate unstable gunmen (are there thousands or 10s of thousands?) do there lethal work in service of Masters who do not care if Americans are slaughtered or not… as long as the pot keeps boiling.

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By JDmysticDJ, January 13, 2011 at 7:41 pm Link to this comment

#3

My conclusion is not exactly profound, and my observation is not revelatory, my conclusion and observation is that violence is an evil. However, further elaboration will support my contention that the Right, regardless of political ideology; clearly advocates violence as a solution to conflict, while the Left has and does advocate for peaceful solutions.

It’s clear that certain left – wing movements have wrongfully resorted to violence in response to perceived injustice and tyranny. It’s also clear that left – wing movements have been pushed to violence by extremes of repression of a brutal and intolerable nature, but the outcome has always had the same results in these instances, and the outcome has resulted in more of the same repression and injustice.

In terms of equivalency; the Left abhors violence, repression, and injustice, and constantly strives to eliminate these realities when they occur, while the Right supports violence as a means of conflict resolution. The Right supports the status quo, and reacts to allegations of injustice in a reactionary manor. The Right perceives clear and undeniable incidences of injustice as being an unavoidable consequence of the natural order of things, and feels threatened by demands for change to eliminate or alleviate injustice. The Right has been an obstacle to progress throughout the ages, and the proofs of this allegation are too numerous to mention and beyond the scope of this too lengthy post. In a few words: Wars of conquest, slavery, preservation of elites, labor relations, etc. ad infinitum.

So much for contentious analysis, today’s realities go far beyond any sophomoric analytical dissertation. Absent a meeting of the minds, and a concerted effort to end injustice, atrocity, suffering, and existential threats to our environment, and future welfare, the future looks bleak indeed. Existential actions to combat bleak future potentialities, or inevitabilities, must be implemented or human progress will become human regress.

Human beings are centric in sensibilities, and can become oblivious to realities that don’t impact them directly. This latest tragedy that affects us directly has caused an outpouring of emotionalism, and sadly, this event has led to exploitation. Media outlets compete and advertise their preferable coverage of this event, others have, rightly or wrongly, sought to use this event to create political advantage, while others have subtly and deceptively used this event to promote personal, national, and religious exceptionalism. That’s not to say that reactions to this event have not been heartfelt, but perhaps the focus on this single event has been inordinate when taken in context to the current human experience in its totality. The loss of six innocents, and the corresponding injury and suffering of others is indeed tragic, but in order for this event to be instructive, in a positive sense, this event must be put into a greater perspective. Innocents are dying and suffering on a daily basis. Loughner clearly demonstrated a lack of concern for human suffering, but this lack of concern is not exclusive to Loughner. Clearly some give preference to objectives that sublimate human suffering. Taken in context, a detached observer might consider this world to be overrun with Loughners. Loughner is mentally ill, I’ll proffer that current realities indicate a greater mental illness, or a lack of mental acuity and a lack of humanitarian sensibility. The Left has been pleading, often impatiently demanding, a more human sensibility from the Right, but that human sensibility is not forthcoming from the Right. The Right argues that this sensibility, or mental acuity, is not practical, rational, or, in effect, sane, so the insanity continues.

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By JDmysticDJ, January 13, 2011 at 7:30 pm Link to this comment

#4

Coming down to a less grandiose, and perhaps more comprehensible reality, The Left has been warning of the potential for an event such as we have experienced continuously, while the Right has been continuously denying that that potentiality existed, and now that the potentiality has become a reality, the Right denies any responsibility, and endeavors to redirect responsibility, while continuing the tragedy causing behavior. The Right shows no inclination to moderate its behavior. The Right seems to be incapable of learning from mistakes, not just in this most recent event, but also in respect to all historical events.

I did not believe that Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction, and I remember thinking that if the Right proceeded on its course of action, the non-existence of weapons of mass destruction would be enlightening to the Right, and cause a self-examination. I was wrong, and my expectations of the Right were far too optimistic. I have ceased having even the remotest expectations of the Right moderating its ideological beliefs, and it has become obvious to me that the Right’s ideology supersedes reality in their minds. Apparently the Right’s ideology is the authority that gives meaning to their authoritarian personalities. The broad experience of human behavior runs the gamut from saints to serial killers. I’d like to believe that people from the Right are not as evil as they appear to be, but experience has shown that perception to be naiveté. I believe that people from the Right are cold and calculating, and that they demonstrate a deliberate indifference to human suffering from a sociological perspective. Yes people from the Right exhibit human qualities. They appear to enjoy fun, they have relationships, and they appear to have loved ones, but I wonder about their perceptions of fun, I wonder what motivates their maintaining relationships, and I wonder about their perception of love. I’m aware that people from the Right come from a broad spectrum, and that the qualities of people from the Right vary. My condemnation is a general one, as it relates to a sociological sub – group.

I do not retract my previous comment regarding certain individuals from the Right being intolerable, and that the essence of right – wing behavior is hateful and is worthy of being hated. If that makes me a bigot, then so be it.

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By SuperMike1661, January 13, 2011 at 1:32 pm Link to this comment

Go Right Young Man says, “I wrote that all sides equally have their extreme adherents.”

If GRYM will only look into the mirror NOW, he will see someone who plays with words that lead to MURDER.

It is NOT “extreme adherents” who commit MURDER ON BABIES. It is the armed-with-intent-to-kill horde of Right Wing extremists how slaughter my people. Your people OWN THE GUNS. And you OWN the words that EXCITE the scum who do the MURDER.

You MUST take responsibility for your fellow Rightists. They will kill again.  And you will be complicit again! If the Right is to escape this hideous monster that it has built, start here. Say what you did, and set the example for your betters.

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By SuperMike1661, January 13, 2011 at 1:01 pm Link to this comment

Go Right Young Man

You need to look in the mirror and see what YOU ARE.

Of course there are extremes on both sides, BUT it is YOUR side that fields its huge arsenal of ready-to-kill semis, re-engineered autos, and BIG CLIP Glocks.

And it is you and your owners who agitate these armed-with-the-intent-to-kill maniacs.

These are YOUR PEOPLE. Look in the mirror and take responsibility for what you have done and are doing. If you make excuses for them today, what is to stop them from continuing the carnage tomorrow??

Do you take responsibility for your people?  Will you caution them AFTER the next blood letting, or will you look in the mirror today?

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By Go Right Young Man, January 13, 2011 at 12:40 pm Link to this comment

LeeFeller, - “Of course extremes exist on all sides, so all sides use divisive acrimonious violence with equality? Now it becomes clear to me,..... we can use Hitler as a right wing template of hysterical equality!”

-

Then, if we employ your rationale equally, we can use Pol Pot, Stalin, Adi Amin Dada, Slobodan Miloševi? and Hugo Chavez as a template of the hysterical, and very often murderous, left-wing! Add up the brutal deaths from the all of the above leftists and we observe nearly 100 million murdered souls.

And still there is no evidence, whatsoever, that young Loughner was driven by the same type of hate-filled politics on display right on this very thread. 

-

BTW; I did not write that all sides use divisive acrimonious violence with equality.  I wrote that all sides equally have their extreme adherents.

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By SuperMike1661, January 13, 2011 at 12:07 pm Link to this comment

Leefeller

Well where to start with you?

Do you agree that Right Wing zealots are, by an overwhelming margin, the Owners of GUNS with Intent to Use? I mean yea, it is great that we are all “jes the same”, but are we?  HAVE YOU BEEN TO YOUR COUNTY FAIRGROUNDS RECENTLY FOR THE LATEST GUN SELL? If you have been their, did you listen to the tone of the political talk from the Merchants and future Perps?

Is the POTENTIAL FOR VIOLENT GUN PLAY THE SAME ON THE LEFT AS IT IS ON THE RIGHT?!

Have you noticed that I am a little upset at the murder of MORE of my fellow Leftists… and a Baby? 

I have not yet begun.

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By Leefeller, January 13, 2011 at 11:36 am Link to this comment

“I read the Almond essay.  Interesting and I agree with much of what he’s got to say.  Here’s the thing, however; I cannot, and do not, agree with the notion that one side of politics is any more divisive, acrimonious or violent than another.  Extremes exist on all sides.”

Of course extremes exist on all sides, so all sides use divisive acrimonious violence with equality? Now it becomes clear to me,..... we can use Hitler as a right wing template of hysterical equality!

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By SuperMike1661, January 13, 2011 at 9:54 am Link to this comment

The Right HUNTS the Left… that is the difference!

GRYM and the other paid High School debaters continue to make a single point: The vitriol on the left is as BAD as the virtual on the Right. This IS PROPAGANDA CRAP!

When Rush, Glenn and Sarah aim there murderous words at their bully boys, the words are aimed at robots who have GUNS.  The words are ALSO aimed at robots who have the INTENT to use these guns.  If a Left Wing speakers uses the precise same words, which they NEVER do, the words DO NOT FALL on the ears of Gun Toting, Gun USING, future murderers. 

NO DAMN IT!  This is the difference between the Right and the Left:  The Left is HUNTED by the Right! THEY WANT US AFRAID AND HUNKERED DOWN or DEAD.  As in Tucson they WANT us to have only a chair to defend ourselves against the death spewing POWER of a 9mm Glock… LONG CLIP!

High School Boy and the other paid “fingers” will not confess that they target and excite an Angry, Armed and Dangerous horde.  So now they have finally crossed the line. They speak to a dangerous horde, and they now refuse to confess to the MURDER of a Baby and a Judge and others over the last few years; so they can expect the Left to come back ARMED and READY.  They are very close now to achieving their goal of a FULLY ARMED ELECTORATE.  The Blood Storm will scour the land.

High School Boys, no matter how well Sourced by their betters, should NEVER draw an equivalence between the Hunter and The Hunted.


SuperMike1661 says, “There may be 60 months left to replace the entire American Political elite before it completes its sale of America to its owners on Wall Street, K Street and the Saudi Peninsula”.

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By Go Right Young Man, January 13, 2011 at 7:54 am Link to this comment

Leefeller,

I read the Almond essay.  Interesting and I agree with much of what he’s got to say.  Here’s the thing, however; I cannot, and do not, agree with the notion that one side of politics is any more divisive, acrimonious or violent than another.  Extremes exist on all sides.

For every dark deed one can put on display concerning the left side of politics I and every other person willing to see it can do the same concerning the right.  Only bigots think otherwise.

And still there is no evidence, whatsoever, that young Loughner was driven by the same type of hate-filled politics on display right on this very thread.  Only blind bigots believe otherwise.

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By JDmysticDJ, January 12, 2011 at 11:58 pm Link to this comment

Leefeller

Thanks for the link. It was well worth reading. Steve Almond covers all the bases, without being vitriolic. Hopefully GRYMie will read it. Maybe if GRYMie reads it, it will give him some clarification and cleansing. It would be nice if ITW, you, me, and others, didn’t have to deal with his obnoxious neon, self-important, refined drivel so often.

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By Inherit The Wind, January 12, 2011 at 9:52 pm Link to this comment

Leefeller, I read it.

Now several REPUBLICAN Party officials are resigning in Arizona, including the only Black official who has had his family’s life threatened by tea partiers. His “crime” and the “crimes” of the others?  Did they support Obama? No! Did they support Nader? No! Did they support Pelosi? No!

They supported John McCain in the GOP primaries in Arizona. JOHN MCCAIN! THAT is their big “crime” that justifies death threats. The guy who BROUGHT us Sarah Palin!

The extreme right has left Democracy and is now truly a fascist movement—threaten any deviation from what THEY want!  Study how fascist movements achieved power in the past, starting with the most famous in Italy and Germany, all the way up to modern Africa and the Taliban.  These maniacs are the same.

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By Leefeller, January 12, 2011 at 8:21 pm Link to this comment

JD, Nice Gryme update Have you read the Steve Almond essay, a dose of reality and enlightenment. FYI:

http://therumpus.net/sections/blogs/steve-almond-blogs/

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By JDmysticDJ, January 12, 2011 at 8:03 pm Link to this comment

GRYMie has worked very hard to deny the undeniable. I’m wondering if GRYMie ignored the numerous acts of violence committed by the Right directed at Obama since he was elected. I wonder if GRYMie is aware that threats on Obama’s life were double that of previous presidents. I wonder if GRYMie is incapable of recognizing and processing the virulent hatred expressed at town hall meetings, and certain Tea Party candidates stating that if ballots don’t work, “Second Amendment Remedies” would have to be resorted to.

I’m surprised that GRYMie hasn’t dittoed Rush’s blatant and bald faced lie regarding Sheriff Stupnik’s prior knowledge. Apparently Sheriff Stupnik’s comment about the political climate in Tucson exposed a reality that Rush wants to obfuscate. I wonder why Rush believes he can get away with these bald faced lies; he was exposed as being a “Big Fat Liar” years ago. Apparently there is no accountability where Rush is concerned, and Rush is aware that his followers will accept everything he says without question.

Isn’t GRYMie aware that Glenn Beck contributed to the political climate by continually and constantly warning of the most dire consequences, and that he attempted to recruit former Special OPPs military personnel to combat the apocalyptic threat coming from the Left, i.e. Obama and the Democrats. Isn’t he aware that loonies are running rampant?

Is GRYMie aware that one of Sarah Palin’s followers contributed to the political climate by stating that the death of a nine year old girl is a good thing, because that nine year old girl would have grown up to be a liberal.

Is GRYMie aware that 3 elected Democratic officials in Arizona have resigned their offices because of the political climate, and because of threats and fear for their lives? What are we living in; it reminds me of a Narco State.

Doesn’t GRYMie get it that the primary victim in this tragedy is on record warning about the dangers of the political climate. Is GRYMie really as blind as he appears to be, or is it that he is just bound and determined to deny reality because reality is inconvenient.

Maybe GRYMie isn’t aware, but I am. The documented list of violent acts and threats is absolutely astounding, and there are a large amount of additions to that list that were previously unknown to even me. Hearing the near endless manifest of accounts of threats coming from Right – wingers is a clear indication of a dangerous political climate, but GRYMie refuses to recognize that reality. GRYMie is the worst kind of hack propagandist, he is not concerned with reality as it is; he is only concerned with denying that reality.

I’ll refrain from vitriol, but I must say that GRYMie disgusts me.

Incidentally, GRYMie’s prime witness, Zach Osler, has had no contact with Loughner for over 2 years, so Osler’s credibility as a witness to Loughner’s recent habits and political peculiarities is non – existent.

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By Go Right Young Man, January 12, 2011 at 7:26 pm Link to this comment

After Osler said that Loughner wasn’t on the left or on the right, never listened to political radio, Ashley Banfield said…

BANFIELD:  Instead he points to this online documentary series called Zeitgeist as the gas on Loughner’s fire.  It’s a documentary movement that rails on currency-based economics.

OSLER:  I really think that this is Zeitgeist documentary had a profound impact upon Jared Loughner’s mind-set and how he viewed the world that he lives in.

-

It wasn’t just Zeitgeist. “According to reports, Loughner’s favorites included little-known conspiracy theory documentaries such as ‘Zeitgeist’ and ‘Loose Change’ as well as ‘A Scanner Darkly.”

According to CBS News “Zeitgeist is “a 2007 documentary that asserts Jesus Christ is a myth, that 9/11 was orchestrated by the government, and that bankers manipulate the international monetary system and the media in order to consolidate power.” 


Review: It wasn’t Palin and right-wing acrid political discourse that likely fired this sad young man up to kill people, it may have been a few conspiracy movies (put together by deranged leftists, it turns out) according to his best friend, that was the most influential media of this young man’s life.

Interesting…..9/11 Truther and the belief in an economic Oligarchy.  Sounds like a potential TruthDig regular to me.  Has anyone heard from MarthaA of late? - RIGHT-WING?!?!?!?!?!?

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By Go Right Young Man, January 12, 2011 at 6:50 pm Link to this comment

FOR REVIEW

A portion of an interview this morning on Good Morning America.  Ashleigh Banfield with Zach Osler, who is a high school friend of the shooter Jared Loughner. 

Ashleigh Banfield: “What was his motive in Saturday’s attack and what about the speculation that he may have been fueled by partisan politics and rhetoric in the media?”

OSLER: “He did not watch TV. He disliked the news. He didn’t listen to political radio. He didn’t take sides. He wasn’t on the left; he wasn’t on the right.”

-

Of course this is just one person’s opinion.  A person who claims to know the shooter a good deal better than Paul Krugman, Keith Olbermann and the handful of all-to-quick-to-judge, small-minded, bigots on TruthDig.

Bigot: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group with hatred and intolerance i.e., white Christians, white bald men, anyone who doesn’t vehemently hate Sarah Palin and moderate, independent and conservative American voters.

-It’s time for some liberals to reflect inward and understand that they are not the angels of all things compassionate.  They simply believe in a different approach to the same human, not evil, goals. The same, on the reverse, applies to Hannity and Limbaugh.

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By Inherit The Wind, January 12, 2011 at 6:21 pm Link to this comment

Lee, JD:

The wagon-circling was until they worked out their response and coordinated counter-attack—all the statements from Limbaugh, Angle, others, now Palin…all in lock-step, carefully attuned to each other, with, dare I say it? MILITARY precision!

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By Leefeller, January 12, 2011 at 6:11 pm Link to this comment

I had an adversity to plastic horizontal butt strokes, plus the M16s had just started to arrive before I left. The only frustration I had at the time,.....  was as enlisted men, we only had access to beer at the E.M. club, so no hard liquor for us, (for me no Tequila)  because, I suppose they figured with hard liquor, we would all get to damn rowdy sleeping with our M14s!

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By JDmysticDJ, January 12, 2011 at 5:50 pm Link to this comment

Lee Feller

Sleeping with an M14 for 13 months? Didn’t that cause you sexual frustration? After all, there must have been M16s available at the time. You are to be commended for your apparent fidelity. Or is it that you just needed a better pimp.

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By Leefeller, January 12, 2011 at 5:14 pm Link to this comment

After reading the Steve Almond essay, the circling of all those wagons seems even more amusing. I hear Glocks are flying off the shelves in Arizona now what does that mean while they line up the wagons?

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By Inherit The Wind, January 12, 2011 at 4:23 pm Link to this comment

Yeah, Leefeller.  Go ahead and try to pretend you’re a dummy…I ain’t buying it.

What you don’t understand is how someone can be so dishonest and disrepectful that he expects you to accept a blatant contradiction as “truth”.

I’ve given up responding to certain trolls, no matter how much they try to bait me.

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By Go Right Young Man, January 12, 2011 at 3:20 pm Link to this comment

Don’t allow a few individuals here on TruthDig to lie with impunity.  Don’t allow haters here to get away with suggesting violence only comes from one side of politics.

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By Go Right Young Man, January 12, 2011 at 3:16 pm Link to this comment

ABC News ran an interview with a youn man who claims to be young Loughner’s closest friend, Zach Osler. - Never a mention of anger toward immigrant or Latinos.  No mention of super secret and scary “Clear Code Words”.

OSLER: He did not watch TV. He disliked the news. He didn’t listen to political radio. He didn’t take sides. He wasn’t on the left; he wasn’t on the right.

Osler said that Loughner was angered at the world.

“He wasn’t shooting people, he was shooting at the world,” the friend said.

-

I’ve never known any rational person who believed vast swaths of the U.S. population used Secret Code words.  Only a true bigot would take the words of a deranged young man - The Government Is Brainwashing Using Grammar - to mean Latinos or brown people.  That type of wholly bigoted attitude is all too common on this Web space.

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By Leefeller, January 12, 2011 at 1:47 pm Link to this comment

Interesting,....... I do not carry a concealed or exposed weapon, nor do I feel required to understand some strange desire to inaugurate it into a public announcement while suggesting an other is acting as an azz and bigot?

Wait,..... is this more attempted right boot forward Irony?

Now, I may have some chronic comprehension problems, but it seems prudent to believe it is not in the cards to expect anyone to understand the inconceivability of Imbeciles!

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By Inherit The Wind, January 12, 2011 at 1:27 pm Link to this comment

Anyone walking around in public with a firearm,concealed or not, who is not a LEO, miltary, a uniformed armed guard, or a hunter entering or leaving a hunting store is, or, is in their place of business where the risk is high (Pawn shops, liquor stores,etc) is, IMHO, in serious need of mental health care.

IOW, if you carry a gun around for “protection” without a specific need, you are, IMHO, a dangerous, paranoid lunatic and EXACTLY the kind of person who should be denied access to guns.

I’ve never met any exception to this rule.

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By SuperMike1661, January 12, 2011 at 1:03 pm Link to this comment

It has a lot of “explanations” but the key problem that GYRM does not explain is WHY RIGHT WING MURDER squads continue to murder Americans.  It continues to wiggle but the murders are firmly raped around its neck.

Put on the ignore list. I have.

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By Go Right Young Man, January 12, 2011 at 12:36 pm Link to this comment

Leefeller,

I have carried a concealed weapon for over 25 years and I still don’t care for it.  But let’s not be an azz toward people simply because we don’t understand them.

Bigot.

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By Leefeller, January 12, 2011 at 11:52 am Link to this comment

Instead of defending the cross hairs, in Palins sites, lets take them out of the rhetorical arsenal and not use them?  Denying gun rhetoric for what it is and how it was used in the past, seems to be once again a denial problem.  How about admitting guns are not a very positive way to politically promote values, ideas and opinions, unless intimidation is the goal?

Touting guns (firearms) with juvenile glee like the fixation of an 8 year old should be insulting to the small number of thinking people out there.  May I suggest no place in public or political debate or conversation should guns be metaphord, suggested or used as frolic symbols. Guns should be like pedophile it should be frowned upon in public and considered mostly unacceptable except in religious experiences. By the way….what ever happed to football metaphors?  It always seems to me, rhetoric is used to sway opinions or motivate people in some way or do something suggested or as a guide to move people in a cretin direction.  To unite under one rallying banner of implied acceptance.

I have nothing against firearms, I even slept with an M14 for 13 months, though I do not reccomened it. Now I have no idea what Palin sleeps with nor do I care, but I do find Palins gun infatuation, demented in some strange way.  Yeah!  I know Palin lives in Alaska and she can gut a Moose with one hand while thumbing though a comprehensive name list of the Seven Dwarfs for her future offspring’s. What is with the gun infatuation?

How did that saying go?  “Annie, get your gun”

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By Go Right Young Man, January 12, 2011 at 9:56 am Link to this comment

January 12, 2011 12:00 A.M.
Massacre, Followed by Libel

Washington – The charge: The Tucson massacre is a consequence of the “climate of hate” created by Sarah Palin, the Tea Party, Glenn Beck, Obamacare opponents, and sundry other liberal bêtes noires.

The verdict: Rarely in American political discourse has there been a charge so reckless, so scurrilous, and so unsupported by evidence.

Among all Loughner’s writings, postings, videos, and other ravings — and in all the testimony from people who knew him — there is not a single reference to any of these supposed accessories to murder.

Not only is there no evidence that Loughner was impelled to violence by any of those upon whom Krugman, Olbermann, and other rabid partisans are fixated. There is no evidence that he was responding to anything, political or otherwise, outside of his own head.

A climate of hate? This man lived within his very own private climate. “His thoughts were unrelated to anything in our world,” said the teacher of his philosophy classe.

“He was very disconnected from reality,” said classmate Lydian Ali.

“You know how it is when you talk to someone who’s mentally ill and they’re just not there?” said neighbor Jason Johnson. “It was like he was in his own world.”

His ravings, said one high-school classmate, were interspersed with “unnerving, long stupors of silence” during which he would “stare fixedly at his buddies,” reported the Wall Street Journal. His own writings are confused, incoherent, punctuated with private numerology and inscrutable taxonomy. He warned of government brainwashing and thought control through “grammar.” He was obsessed with “conscious dreaming,” a fairly good synonym for hallucinations. - Notice: not a word about immigrants or Latinos. Only a true bigot would conjure such a nonsense.

This is not political behavior. These are the signs of a clinical thought disorder — ideas disconnected from one another, incoherent, delusional, detached from reality.

These are all the hallmarks of a paranoid schizophrenic. And a dangerous one. A classmate found him so terrifyingly mentally disturbed that — as she e-mailed friends and family — she expected to see his picture on TV after he had perpetrated a mass murder. This was no idle speculation: In class, “I sit by the door with my purse handy,” she wrote, so that she could get out fast when the shooting began.

Furthermore, the available evidence dates Loughner’s fixation on Rep. Gabrielle Giffords back to at least 2007, when he attended a townhall of hers and felt slighted by her response. In 2007, no one had heard of Sarah Palin. Glenn Beck was still toiling on Headline News. There was no Tea Party or health-care reform. The only climate of hate was the pervasive post-Iraq campaign of vilification of George W. Bush, nicely captured by a New Republic editor who began an article thus: “I hate President George W. Bush. There, I said it.”

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By Go Right Young Man, January 12, 2011 at 9:55 am Link to this comment

January 12, 2011 12:00 A.M.
Massacre, Followed by Libel

PT. II

Finally, the charge that the metaphors used by Palin and others were inciting violence is ridiculous. Everyone uses warlike metaphors in describing politics. When Barack Obama said at a 2008 fundraiser in Philadelphia, “If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” he was hardly inciting violence.

Why? Because fighting and warfare are the most routine of political metaphors. And for obvious reasons. Historically speaking, all democratic politics is a sublimation of the ancient route to power — military conquest. That’s why the language persists. That’s why we speak without any self-consciousness of such things as “battleground states” and “targeting” opponents. Indeed, the very word for an electoral contest — “campaign” — is an appropriation from warfare.

When profiles of Obama’s first chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, noted that he once sent a dead fish to a pollster who displeased him, a characteristically subtle statement carrying more than a whiff of malice and murder, it was considered a charming example of excessive — and creative — political enthusiasm. When Senate candidate Joe Manchin dispensed with metaphor and simply fired a bullet through the cap-and-trade bill — while intoning, “I’ll take dead aim at [it]” — he was hardly assailed with complaints about violations of civil discourse or invitations to murder.

Did Manchin push Loughner over the top? Did Emanuel’s little Mafia imitation create a climate for political violence? The very questions are absurd — unless you’re the New York Times and you substitute the name Sarah Palin.

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By Inherit The Wind, January 12, 2011 at 9:16 am Link to this comment

Cong. Foxx of course ignores obvious evidence:

1) Loughner also had Mein Kampf on his book shelf, as well as the Communist Manifesto.

2) Possessing Marx doesn’t make one a Communist. I keep my copy of Marx’s Capital on my book shelf next to Adam Smith’s Wealth of Nations, Milton Friedman’s Free to Choose, and Paul Samuelson’s Foundation of Economics (But I do NOT have a Glock 9mm with a 33 round magazine…don’t even have a Glock with or without an extended magazine. Nor do I have Mein Kampf—too creepy).

3) Loughner posted, on YouTube, an anti-immigrant rant.  Hard to find a Liberal or a Communist who rants and raves about immigrants but among the Right, why they’re a dime a dozen (including the Governor of Gabby Giffords’ state).

So the extreme Right first:
1) Circled the wagons
2) Took down incriminating web material (Palin’s “target map”)
3) Started the “spin machine” to obfuscate and deny and cover up their responsibility—and, as is their usual, BLAME DEMOCRATS AND LIBERAL!

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By SuperMike1661, January 12, 2011 at 3:21 am Link to this comment

Leefeller. Spot On!

And you are truer than you know. What you see before you now is fully Operational Irony… to wit: The Right Wing Propagandists who manipulate Right Wing Gunman have finally talked themselves into a corner. 

On the one hand, if they manage to shift the blame for this most recent Bloody Rampage onto someone else; then they will have simply “increased the playing field” for FUTURE agitation for further Wet Operations.  Therefore, at some point in their future slaughters, even the most forgiving American well awaken to the ongoing carnage.

On the other hand, even if they fail to shift the blame, the Shifting Operation itself will agitate the Next Gunman to open the innocent veins of our compatriots.

In either case you can expect the next RIGHT WING MURDERS soon.

No! The ONLY way that their God might save them is if they openly confess to WHAT THEY HAVE DONE.  Let them come to their countrymen NOW with open hearts and talk about the murderers that they have created. In the meantime, in the face of their hideous denial, there is nothing that we can do for them.

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By Leefeller, January 12, 2011 at 12:33 am Link to this comment

Am I Capable of appreciating irony? A little cut and pasty for Rico!

“Rep. Virginia Foxx (R-NC) says political rhetoric doesn’t really incite violent behavior at all—but not before describing Arizona shooting suspect Jared Loughner as a “communist” and “the liberal of liberals.”

“This guy appears to be a communist,” Foxx told the Winston-Salem Journal. “His beliefs are the liberal of the liberals [sic]. There is no evidence whatsoever that this man was influenced by Sarah Palin or anybody in the Republican Party. This man is not a conservative; he’s a fan of communism - that’s the opposite of conservatism.”

“I don’t think members of Congress incite that kind of rhetoric,” Foxx added. “I don’t think the things we say incite that kind of behavior. And I don’t know that the things other people say incite it. I just think we have deranged individuals in this country and occasionally they do bad things.”

source: TPMMuckraker

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By SuperMike1661, January 11, 2011 at 9:45 pm Link to this comment

Directy @ GRYM

You are profoundly wrong when you state that your Murderous Robot “shot and killed a nine year old girl”.

No! You filthy gutter snipe!  Your monster MURDERED A BABY.

Wake up to what you have done!

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By SuperMike1661, January 11, 2011 at 9:28 pm Link to this comment

Go Right Young Man does NOT want ITW commenting on the postings of the RIGHT WING MURDERER.  GRYM states that we should NOT comment on someone who is “mentally imbalanced”.

I do not accept that this Right Wing Murderer is mentally unbalanced.  He simply DID the work for which he was programmed.

It is profoundly disgusting to see Right Wing Propagandists who created the murderous atmosphere in Tuscon now claim that their robot is actually some sicko not of their ilk. GRYM, embrace him!  Your robot is you.

It is you who pulled the trigger.. from afar.  Until you accept your role as the maker of this monster, you can not be redeemed.

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By Go Right Young Man, January 11, 2011 at 9:16 pm Link to this comment

“(S)poke in “code” making it clear”...

-

HAHAHA….. Tell us you didn’t just try to go there.

Now we’re interpreting the “clear ‘code’ words” of an mentally imbalanced young individual who shot and killed a nine year old girl.

Now that, my friends, is a display of a balanced perspective. wink

-

Sorry, ITW, no way I was about to let that pass.

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By SuperMike1661, January 11, 2011 at 8:48 pm Link to this comment

JDmysticDJ posts the devastating partial list of recent RIGHT WING MURDERS AND MURDEDR PLOTS.  The RIGHT WING MURDER MACHINE IS IN HIGH GEAR.

What is the purpose of political debate with supporters of this machine?  Do we have anything to gain from engaging with those who only wish to slaughter us?

The only function that I see that rico and GRYM serve here is to justify and fudge the true purpose of their political betters.  Where is the humane and reasoned political discourse? There is none. It is all obfuscation while the bloody WORK is done by their robots and the LOOTING is done by their betters.

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By Inherit The Wind, January 11, 2011 at 8:35 pm Link to this comment

Loughner in the midst of all crazy mishegoss, clearly posted anti-immigrant materials on YT. Like all who can’t say it straight, he spoke in “code” making it clear that he wanted to do something about those who had a problem with grammar, clearly a reference to Latin immigrants.  He then shoots a Congresswoman who wanted saner laws for immigrants….

But he’s not right-wing?!?!?!?!?!?

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By SuperMike1661, January 11, 2011 at 8:19 pm Link to this comment

Re rico and his bride:

There is only ONE healthy outcome for the two of them. They NEED to openly embrace the MURDERER that they covertly support.  They simply can not continue to wage their Right Wing Propaganda campaign that will CONTINUE to stir up their robot shooters AND SIMULTANEOUSLY deny that they ARE DOING IT.

Let these boys come clean, for after all, CONFESSION IS GOOD FOR THE SOUL.

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By SuperMike1661, January 11, 2011 at 8:08 pm Link to this comment

Regarding rico and his bride, GRYM:

If Truthdig is a site for digging into the CAUSES of the deeply dysfunctional and potentially morbid disease that ails the American polity, then I see NO REASON for the alibiers and facilitators of MURDER TO BE HERE.

On the other hand, it Truthdig is a place where professional political propagandists ply their grizzly trade, let us engage with them and NOT think about Reasoned Inquiry.

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By SuperMike1661, January 11, 2011 at 7:59 pm Link to this comment

Rico and his bride, GRYM, have one essential problem, and they are presently squirming wildly to evade it.  THE TUSCON MURDERER IS THEIR GUY. 

EVERYTHING that they say now is designed to PUT THESE MURDERS ANYWHERE BUT AROUND THEIR TWO NECKS. 

But I believe it is clear to any thoughtful person that they BOTH should acknowledge their ONGOING complicity in these grizzly deeds.  Until they confess that this is THEIR GUY… what is there to say to them?

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By JDmysticDJ, January 11, 2011 at 7:56 pm Link to this comment

Rico Suave

My dim bulbed friend. The point is that the perpetrators were right-wing in both cases.

If Loughner’s choice of victims was random as you suggest, and not influenced by vitriolic rhetoric, was it just a matter of coincidence. Is that your contention?

I don’t suggest that all right wingers are perpetrators of individual acts of violence. Most right-wingers prefer institutional violence. Clearly they prefer to be disconnected from their murderous mayhem.

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By SuperMike1661, January 11, 2011 at 7:44 pm Link to this comment

If it is true that Right Wing Gunmen are unmotivated by Right Wing Political Agitation then there is MORE room for such agitation. This is the true purpose of GRYM’s and Rico’s denials.  They both facilitate the continuing distraction of their murder’s work while making more room on the national stage for this work.

Also while they keep our eyes on their shooters, they make room on the darker parts of the stage for their political superiors to collect more and more loot.

It is unclear to me why we should engage with such nonsense.

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By rico, suave, January 11, 2011 at 7:36 pm Link to this comment

JD:

Let me see. You list a pattern, then tell me not to bother listing a competing pattern because it would amount to obfuscation. Oh, I see.

What’s the point? Is this some debate team assignment? Your self-righteousness is breathtaking.

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By JDmysticDJ, January 11, 2011 at 7:30 pm Link to this comment

Rico Suave

It disturbs you that more rational less bigoted people won’t allow you to equate terrorism with Islam, doesn’t it?

I’ll concede a little, perhaps it will help to enlighten that dim bulb on top of shoulders. It’s clear to most that fundamentalist (i.e. right-wing) Muslims are more prone to participating in terrorism or condoning it. However, it’s also clear that the majority of, more moderate, Muslims to the Left of these extremists are opposed to terrorism.

This from poster JEP from another site:

•  July 2008: A gunman named Jim David Adkisson, agitated at how “liberals” are “destroying America,” walks into a Unitarian Church and opens fire, killing two churchgoers and wounding four others.

—October 2008: Two neo-Nazis are arrested in Tennessee in a plot to murder dozens of African-Americans, culminating in the assassination of President Obama.

—December 2008: A pair of “Patriot” movement radicals—the father-son team of Bruce and Joshua Turnidge, who wanted “to attack the political infrastructure”—threaten a bank in Woodburn, Oregon, with a bomb in the hopes of extorting money that would end their financial difficulties, for which they blamed the government. Instead, the bomb goes off and kills two police officers. The men eventually are convicted and sentenced to death for the crime.

—December 2008: In Belfast, Maine, police discover the makings of a nuclear “dirty bomb” in the basement of a white supremacist shot dead by his wife. The man, who was independently wealthy, reportedly was agitated about the election of President Obama and was crafting a plan to set off the bomb.

—January 2009: A white supremacist named Keith Luke embarks on a killing rampage in Brockton, Mass., raping and wounding a black woman and killing her sister, then killing a homeless man before being captured by police as he is en route to a Jewish community center.

—February 2009: A Marine named Kody Brittingham is arrested and charged with plotting to assassinate President Obama. Brittingham also collected white-supremacist material.

—April 2009: A white supremacist named Richard Poplawski opens fire on three Pittsburgh police officers who come to his house on a domestic-violence call and kills all three, because he believed President Obama intended to take away the guns of white citizens like himself. Poplawski is currently awaiting trial.

—April 2009: Another gunman in Okaloosa County, Florida, similarly fearful of Obama’s purported gun-grabbing plans, kills two deputies when they come to arrest him in a domestic-violence matter, then is killed himself in a shootout with police.

—May 2009: A “sovereign citizen” named Scott Roeder walks into a church in Wichita, Kansas, and assassinates abortion provider Dr. George Tiller.

—June 2009: A Holocaust denier and right-wing tax protester named James Von Brunn opens fire at the Holocaust Museum, killing a security guard.

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By Go Right Young Man, January 11, 2011 at 7:30 pm Link to this comment

New York Times.

By SERGE F. KOVALESKI, MARC LACEY AND TIMOTHY WILLIAMS
Published: January 11, 2011

Kim Janes, manager of the Pima Animal Care Center in Tucson, said in an interview that Mr. Loughner volunteered at the facility in January and February last year as a dog walker. In his application, Mr. Loughner wrote that he was interested in volunteering at the center for “community service, fun, reference and experience.” But after about two months, Mr. Janes said, even though Mr. Loughner had been told not to walk any dogs in an area of the kennel where parvovirus had been detected, he did not appear to appreciate the seriousness of the situation.

“He did not seem to understand why this was important and how deadly the virus could be for dogs. He never really acknowledged our concerns,” Mr. Janes said. “We were concerned about him not following the rules that the supervisor had passed on to him, and we told him not to return until he was willing to abide by our rules.” That was the last the center saw of him.

In his application, filled out in late November 2009, Mr. Loughner said he was a student at Pima Community College and intended to major in liberal arts, Mr. Janes said.

Mr. Loughner also said in his application that he had worked for an Eddie Bauer store in Tucson from October 2008 to November 2009 .

Over all, Mr. Janes said, referring to Saturday’s shooting, “It is very disconcerting that someone who showed compassion for innocent animals would do what he did to human beings.”

-

“He did not have many friends,” said Zane Gutierrez, 21, who met Mr. Loughner in high school. “We stopped talking to him in March of 2010. He started getting weird.”

Mr. Gutierrez’s descriptions of Mr. Loughner’s behavior provide new insight into his mental state. Mr. Loughner’s parents were expected to make their first public comments since the shooting on Tuesday afternoon.

Mr. Gutierrez said Mr. Loughner would call at 2 a.m. and ask, “Are you hanging out in front of the house, stalking me?”

“He started to get really paranoid, and said he did not want to see us anymore and did not trust us,” Mr. Gutierrez said.

“He thought we were plotting to kill him or steal his car or something,” Mr. Gutierrez added. “It got worse over time.”

Mr. Gutierrez said Mr. Loughner had mentioned Ms. Giffords only once, saying that he had been unhappy with how she had responded to a question he asked at a public appearance about the nature of government. Mr. Gutierrez said Mr. Loughner had shown little interest in politics.

“He was a nihilist and loves causing chaos, and that is probably why he did the shooting, along with the fact he was sick in the head,” he said.

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By rico, suave, January 11, 2011 at 7:28 pm Link to this comment

SuperMike:

Your first post here was sober and well presented. But it seems that the drugs are starting to take effect. Bring back Amanda.

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By rico, suave, January 11, 2011 at 7:27 pm Link to this comment

ITW:

You’re not confused at all. As long as you are capable of separating wheat from chaff (I just made that up) you will be fine.

Loughner has become a proxy for “lock and load”, etc. The irony is that it appears he has nothing to do with the “lock and load” crowd. And the sad part is that, to most truthdig commentators, IT DOESN’T MATTER! It’s a Tawana Brawley thing. Who cares if he’s not a Tea Partier, the thing is, there are some TDers who think he thinks that way, so he’s their new bumper sticker.

You shouldn’t blame ANY right-wingers for creating Loughner. Blame Loughner, blame his parents, blame his third grade teacher, but not “right-wingers”. I don’t blame bin Laden for creating Hassan. I blame Hassan. I take issue with lazy conservatives who smear all of Islam for Hassan, just as you should take issue with progs who are too lazy to get up from the barcalounger and make some effort to look for distinctions.

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By JDmysticDJ, January 11, 2011 at 7:22 pm Link to this comment

•  Rico Suave (Cont.)

—February 2010: An angry tax protester named Joseph Ray Stack flies an airplane into the building housing IRS offices in Austin, Texas. (Media are reluctant to label this one “domestic terrorism” too.)

—March 2010: Seven militiamen from the Hutaree Militia in Michigan and Ohio are arrested and charged with plotting to assassinate local police officers with the intent of sparking a new civil war.

—March 2010: An anti-government extremist named John Patrick Bedell walks into the Pentagon and opens fire, wounding two officers before he is himself shot dead.

—May 2010: A “sovereign citizen” from Georgia is arrested in Tennessee and charged with plotting the violent takeover of a local county courthouse.

—May 2010: A still-unidentified white man walks into a Jacksonville, Fla., mosque and sets it afire, simultaneously setting off a pipe bomb.

—May 2010: Two “sovereign citizens” named Jerry and Joe Kane gun down two police officers who pull them over for a traffic violation, and then wound two more officers in a shootout in which both of them are eventually killed.

—July 2010: An agitated right-winger and convict named Byron Williams loads up on weapons and drives to the Bay Area intent on attacking the offices of the Tides Foundation and the ACLU, but is intercepted by state patrolmen and engages them in a shootout and armed standoff in which two officers and Williams are wounded.

—September 2010: A Concord, N.C., man is arrested and charged with plotting to blow up a North Carolina abortion clinic. The man, 26-year—old Justin Carl Moose, referred to himself as the “Christian counterpart to (Osama) bin Laden” in a taped undercover meeting with a federal informant.

Are we seeing a pattern here? Go ahead and try to obfuscate, but you won’t be able to, nor will you be able to obfuscate the events of recorded history.

I apologize for saying you’re bigoted, insults alienate, but that particular insult is “Incontrovertible truth” as it applies to you. Be thankful that I didn’t say, “I hope you bleed out your ass get cancer and die.” That is of course a quotation from a right-winger upset with his democratically elected representative.

Please don’t respond with a list of, or point out, incidences of right-wing Muslim terrorism, doing so would be illogical, more obfuscation, and irrelevant to this discourse.

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By Go Right Young Man, January 11, 2011 at 7:02 pm Link to this comment

Rico, - The lead article on this thread is a plea from the Tea Party to not paint them with an all-inclusive broad brush.

-

The second I saw this TruthDig blurb I understood what was about to begin.  It was obvious what Bob Scheer, his Son and the rest of the editors had in mind.  And I actually like and enjoy Bob Scheer.

While nearly everyone and their Mother had been condemning the actions of the shooter, it was the Tea Party response that interested the editors more than any other. 

I too have seen nothing that would indicate that this sad young man had any affinity to the Tea Party, Sarah Palin, talk radio, or anything on the right side of politics.  Nothing whatsoever.

Your opinion: What will be said and written if this sad and demented individual turns out to be born of the left?  Will the narrative suddenly shift?  Will the two of us be pummeled for our fear-mongering bigoted beliefs?  Will we be condemned in how we would dare to lump the actions of a single individual in with the compassionate, all inclusive and warm-hearted liberals?  Or will the conversation abruptly end?

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By SuperMike1661, January 11, 2011 at 6:21 pm Link to this comment

All of this emotional bile tends to obfuscate the facts on the street.  There are gigantic forces moving in the darkened background… completing their crime.

Somebody made off with one or two Trillion USD as part of the CONTINUING, brutal rape of the United States that began in 2008. 

Since the “leaders” who arranged this caper still dot the landscape, we KNOW that they are almost clean in their getaway.  In fact very few so-called leaders were knocked out during this last election.  Only a few dozen national politicians who operated at the thin red line of political competition paid the price.  The rest continue to draw evermore bloated paychecks from their private employers.  If you care to know who these rape facilitating employers are, look at the list of K Street swine who constantly crash our vanishing American table.

http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php?indexType=c

Let me be one of the FIRST paranoid observers to stand up and point the finger at nearly ALL of our so-called leaders, and their K Street Masters (the Masters work for the PRC and the Middle East Sovereign Wealth Funds also).  Why did you do this to us?! Why are you still here? Why do you agitate the people now about immigration, abortion, religion, health-care , POLITICAL MURDER… and all of these less than central things?!  Why do you direct our attention AWAY from your brutal rape of our country?

Since so very little of the real power structure of the United States has changed since the rape of 2008,  I assume that it is over for the United States.  The bile constantly puked up at Truthdig makes me certain that the thinking portion of the American polity is looking elsewhere.  The getaway is clean, and since they “work” so well, more MURDERS are to come.

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By Inherit The Wind, January 11, 2011 at 6:13 pm Link to this comment

Rico:
I’m getting very confused.
Personally I find the events at Ft. Hood as disturbing as you do.  I don’t blame ALL Islam—but I do blame radical Islamists for helping create Major Hassan.

Likewise I don’t blame ALL Conservatives or Right Wingers for creating Loughner.  But I DO blame those who use all the military/hunting rhetoric, “Reload!” and “2nd Amendment Moment”, cross-hairs on targets, etc.

I don’t see anything inconsistent here.

But are there those who see a conspiracy in everything?  Sure! They ALREADY said they see Major Hassan as a patsy and the Tucson shooting as a “Black ops.

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By rico, suave, January 11, 2011 at 5:44 pm Link to this comment

Leefeller:

Are you capable of appreciating irony? The lead article on this thread is a plea from the Tea Party to not paint them with an all-inclusive broad brush. Whereupon, almost every truthdig commentator proceeds to do just that. Then you complain when I satirize the tendency of truthdiggers to wallow in absolutes.

As I said before, you would be the first to plead for restraint and apply nuance to the Ft Hood episode, but have no compunction about making Loughner the poster child for the Tea Party, without a shred of evidence to support it. In fact, despite the mountain of evidence that contradicts it- atheist, truther, flag burner, etc!

You view anyone who disagrees with you as a “cloned right-wing…Palin…”, while progressives are all thoughtful and independent minded, untainted by Olbermann, Maher, Maddow, Schulz, Matthews, O’Donnell, Whoopie, etc.

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By Go Right Young Man, January 11, 2011 at 4:36 pm Link to this comment

rico, suave,

You are 100% correct regarding the Ft. Hood incident. 

“DON’T YOU DARE RUSH TO JUDGMENT!  It’s wrong!  It’s bigoted!  It’s racist!  It’s fear mongering!  It’s profiling! 

It’s hypocrisy, is what it is.

-

Don’t allow haters here to get away with suggesting violence comes only from one side of politics. - It’s wrong!  It’s bigoted!  It’s racist!  It’s fear mongering!  It’s profiling!  Only small-minded bigots believe in such nonsense!

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By Go Right Young Man, January 11, 2011 at 4:23 pm Link to this comment

Leefeller, - “Yes YOU! progressive liberals on TD causing all the problems.

-

What is that prevents you from actually seeing what others write?  Or, conversely, why must you always get it wrong?  Is it intentional?

I’m curious, which individual here, on this thread, has written anything close to the narrative you characterize?  Who has attempted to blame all progressives/liberals/TruthDig aficionados for anything?

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By Leefeller, January 11, 2011 at 3:58 pm Link to this comment

“We Hunt Democrats
Another one from 2009: Rep. Gregg Harper (R-MS) told Politico that he hunts Democrats. Asked about the Congressional Sportsmen’s Caucus, he said, “We hunt liberal, tree-hugging Democrats, although it does seem like a waste of good ammunition.”

Yes, the this healthy right wing sense of humor is real and seems very clear to me?

source: Muckraker had a comprehensive list of great right leaning sayings, boy the good old boys are so darn funny!

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By Leefeller, January 11, 2011 at 3:40 pm Link to this comment

Yes, all you Liberals and progressives out there, every damn one of you are the problem, it has absolutely nothing to do with the Russ Limbaugh’s and cloned right wing retching Palins or Glen Becks, spewing their constant driveling sales pitch of hate!.... Yep, it is all you, ....Yes YOU! progressive liberals on TD causing all the problems.

Everyone attending TD is a card carrying liberal progressive according to the exceptional one or two, who like to accuse everyone else of being a card carrying liberal progressive, why not add socialist Pinko Commie? Using the all inclusive everyone, supports the standard right wing foundations of absolutisms,  clearing the fog from the the simple mind. Absolutisms provide the clarity required to fill the bast void between those right wing ears!

All everything is absolute; ....right?

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By rico, suave, January 11, 2011 at 2:58 pm Link to this comment

Obfuscation indeed.

Major Hassan yells “Allahhu Akbar” as he kills a dozen people, and we are not allowed to connect him with Islam generally. Indeed, progressive and liberal apologists bent over backward to vilify those who did so.

Loughner shoots a dozen and progressive inquisitors require us to accept his total immersion in the Tea Party ethos. This, despite the fact that, unlike Hassan who explicitly invoked Islam as he carried out his crime, Loughner demonstrates no explicit or implicit affinity or affiliation with the Tea Party ethos. There is NO evidence he took his marching orders from Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, et al. But that’s an inconvenience for progressives, so they obfuscate by stating that unprovable opinion as fact.

Loughner is an out and out nutcase stalker in the fashion of Mark David Chapman or John Hinckley. Giffords’ politics was irrelvant to him. He’s insane. No more, no less.

Obfuscation indeed.

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By JDmysticDJ, January 11, 2011 at 11:38 am Link to this comment

Having silently followed this thread, I’ll have to report that, according to my analysis, the obfuscation and distortion has been successful to a certain degree. People here who are justifiably angry and outraged by the obfuscation and distortion have fallen into the trap. They are disputing irrelevant truths, and false equivalencies.

These obfuscators like to equate political humor intended to amuse supporters with comments about “Second Amendment Remedies,” “The blood of tyrants and patriots,” etc.  Apparently these obfuscators want us to believe that political humor is as inflammatory as very real references to violent action.

George W. Bush’s supporters and handlers at his Inauguration celebration considered protest, a thrown egg [1], and a thrown tennis ball [1] as an unforgivable and dangerous threat to their hero. There are many things associated with George W. Bush’s Presidency that were unforgivable; a thrown egg and a thrown tennis ball seem to lack significance taken in context. These obfuscators cite the actions of mentally unhinged individuals who demonstrated threatening behavior towards George W. Bush, leaving out the fact that these very same unhinged individuals also demonstrated threatening behavior towards Barack Obama, while attempting to portray these unhinged individuals as being typical democrats, liberals, Leftists, whatever. Such distortion is despicable sophistry, only clever in its ability to obfuscate the vitriolic violence inducing rhetoric which came from the Right.

These obfuscators want us to believe that the vitriolic riotous behavior of gun toting Tea Partiers at demonstrations and so called town hall meetings were business as usual, and that the recorded very real threats and actions perpetrated against elected representatives were understandable and nothing out of the ordinary. Perhaps I’m biased, but I do, and I will, make a distinction between protest to end war and injustice, and protest opposed to providing Health Care to those in need.

There is a lesson to be learned from this most recent event, but political realities will prevent this lesson from being instructive. Those on the Right immediately began to spin this event in order to misdirect culpability. If those on the Left don’t counter this spin, the spin will be successful. The Right wants to use their knives of obfuscation to slice away their culpability, but the gun brought to this debate was a glock hand gun, with a 31 round clip, wielded by an anti-Government mentally deranged individual whose mentally deranged condition was enhanced and directed by vitriolic lies, distortions, and violent rhetoric from the Right, and far-left.

The greatest obfuscation will be that this event will serve as a diversion, will increase the division, and draw attention away from much greater and more profound brutalities perpetrated by those of a right-wing militaristic perspective, from both of the primary political factions, who foolishly, and cruelly, pursue a counter productive quest for U.S. hegemony, regardless of cost.

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By Leefeller, January 11, 2011 at 10:40 am Link to this comment

Damn! I had forgotten about Tiller, and the lack of shame and responsibility by those who would deny any wrong in his death. This makes me want to puke!

Me thanks (ITW) for keeping us refreshed of those recent past absurdities and abuses. For some of these absurdities I had forgotten.  Absurdities perpetuated by the same people promoting copious quantiles of flack, attempting to induce that we forget.

What war?

Teabaggers manipulated by their hefty cockroach contingent of sponsors, benefactors attempting to be well hidden behind the curtain. Manipulators promoting and creating nonstop illusions. Why do I see tebaggers as nothing more than puppet ignoramus’s standing on a hill lighting fires with zombie like demented conviction;.... possibly only in their deluded minds, do they believe otherwise. Yes in their minds they are doing the right thing, similar to the mental delusion of perpetrator of this heinous act in Arizona!

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By Go Right Young Man, January 11, 2011 at 9:58 am Link to this comment

It would prove helpful if one of the bigots here, these political opportunists shamefully exploiting a tragedy, could outline how Loughner’s supposedly favorite books, Mein Kampf and The Communist Manifesto, can be attributed to the aspirations of today’s contemporary liberal or conservative thinking. - It would be equally helpful if one of these small-minded bigots could explain, in detail, how the DLC’s use of bulls-eye targets during election cycles has brought anyone to actual violence.

It would be helpful if one of these intolerant bigots could explain how, precisely, is the President of the United States to blame for this recent tragedy after he talking of “whose ass to kick?” Or his comments that one of his supporters could “tear [Sean Hannity] up”?  Or his Untouchables boast that “if they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun”; or his advice to supporters of his presidential campaign to argue with Republicans and independents and “get in their face” and treat them as “the enemy”.

The truth is these bits of political rhetoric cannot be attributed to the actions of a sad and ill young man.  Only the sick mind could blame this individual’s actions on anyone but the young man himself.  To equate an irrational mind to rational thinking is, in and of itself, a form of unhinged thinking. Or worse, insanity.

Hate is indeed a blinding pathology.

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By RayLan, January 11, 2011 at 8:58 am Link to this comment

“It would be merciful if, when tragedies such as Tucson’s occur, there were a moratorium on sociology”
Why? So we don’t learn anything. I guess that’s how you keep your bigotry intact.
LOL I didn’t think it could get any dumber -

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