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Ear to the Ground

Right Pushes Back About Rhetoric’s Role in Arizona Shooting

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Posted on Jan 11, 2011
Wikimedia Commons / U.S. Congress

Rep. Gabrielle Giffords of Arizona showed some promising signs Tuesday, but doctors emphasized that she had suffered very serious injuries in Saturday’s shooting and her recovery would happen “at her own pace.”

Is it wrong to make connections between the charged political climate in the U.S., stoked by divisive rhetoric, and the deadly shooting last weekend in Arizona? Some right-leaning politicians and pundits are saying so.  —KA

The Christian Science Monitor:

They say evidence is mounting that alleged gunman Jared Lee Loughner is a disturbed individual with almost incoherent philosophical beliefs. Mr. Loughner is a registered independent who did not vote in the 2010 elections, and his bookshelf includes works more commonly thought to be leftist, such as “The Communist Manifesto,” say some on the right.

“I don’t see any political trend there, more than just a mindless rage. I think to add more to that is to give him too much credit,” said Rep. Trent Franks (R) of Arizona in a Fox News interview on Monday.

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By SuperMike1661, January 15, 2011 at 1:04 pm Link to this comment

We are updating the list of ongoing Right Wing murders.  Post this list far and wide.  Corporation Media does not want you to know.

This latest list contains the murders of February 2010: A software engineer furious with the Internal Revenue Service launched a suicide attack on the agency by crashing his small plane into an office building containing nearly 200 IRS employees, setting off a raging fire, killing two. The suicide note stated, “Violence is not only the answer, it is the only answer…”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

THE RIGHT WING MURDER CAMPAIGN… WILL IT NEVER END?
Version 1.1 updated on 1/15/2011

Post this list far and wide.  Corporation Media does not want you to know.

—July 2008: A gunman named Jim David Adkisson, agitated at how “liberals” are “destroying America,” walks into a Unitarian Church and opens fire, killing two churchgoers and wounding four others.

—October 2008: Two neo-Nazis are arrested in Tennessee in a plot to murder dozens of African-Americans, culminating in the assassination of President Obama.

—December 2008: A pair of “Patriot” movement radicals—the father-son team of Bruce and Joshua Turnidge, who wanted “to attack the political infrastructure”—threaten a bank in Woodburn, Oregon, with a bomb in the hopes of extorting money that would end their financial difficulties, for which they blamed the government. Instead, the bomb goes off and kills two police officers. The men eventually are convicted and sentenced to death for the crime.

—December 2008: In Belfast, Maine, police discover the makings of a nuclear “dirty bomb” in the basement of a white supremacist shot dead by his wife. The man, who was independently wealthy, reportedly was agitated about the election of President Obama and was crafting a plan to set off the bomb.

—January 2009: A white supremacist named Keith Luke embarks on a killing rampage in Brockton, Mass., raping and wounding a black woman and killing her sister, then killing a homeless man before being captured by police as he is en route to a Jewish community center.

—February 2009: A Marine named Kody Brittingham is arrested and charged with plotting to assassinate President Obama. Brittingham also collected white-supremacist material.

—April 2009: A white supremacist named Richard Poplawski opens fire on three Pittsburgh police officers who come to his house on a domestic-violence call and kills all three, because he believed President Obama intended to take away the guns of white citizens like himself.
Poplawski is currently awaiting trial.
—April 2009: Another gunman in Okaloosa County, Florida, similarly fearful of Obama’s purported gun-grabbing plans, kills two deputies when they come to arrest him in a domestic-violence matter, then is killed himself in a shootout with police.

—May 2009: A “sovereign citizen” named Scott Roeder walks into a church in Wichita, Kansas, and assassinates abortion provider Dr. George Tiller.

—June 2009: A Holocaust denier and right-wing tax protester named James Von Brunn opens fire at the Holocaust Museum, killing a security guard.

—February 2010: A software engineer furious with the Internal Revenue Service launched a suicide attack on the agency by crashing his small plane into an office building containing nearly 200 IRS employees, setting off a raging fire, killing two.  The suicide note stated, “Violence is not only the answer, it is the only answer…”

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By zzonerr, January 15, 2011 at 8:03 am Link to this comment

SuperMike
Thank you for the list.  What about the guy who flew his plane into the IRS building in Austin in Feb 2010?

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By SuperMike1661, January 13, 2011 at 10:42 pm Link to this comment

Baseball was in Christina Green’s blood. Her father is a scout for the Los Angeles Dodgers and her grandfather, Dallas Green, managed the 1980 World Series champion Philadelphia Phillies.

She was the only girl on the Pirates, the only one with shoulder-length hair peeking from the green and yellow cap. She brought a mix of playfulness and grit to the team. She spent a week negotiating the terms of a race in the outfield between the players and the coach: kids run forward, coach runs backward, winner gets ice cream. The kids won.

She climbed mesquite trees after practice. While playing second base during warm-ups on a hot desert day, she sang a pop song to herself, and quickly brought in the first baseman and right fielder into her chorus.
=======================================================
THIS is the murder that the Right Wing will pay for over and over and over again.  They can deny it forever, but this is the one that plays the capstone to their ongoing use of violent imagery.  Let it NEVER be forgotten.

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By garth, January 13, 2011 at 9:17 pm Link to this comment

And I say that all this is really governmet sponsored terrorism. 

Read some history of terrorism.  It’s not just some bulleted list of events that are described in a sentence or two.

The nature of acts like these go back many years and it is all over the world.

Webster Tarpley has an excellent explanation in one of his books.  Robert Fitch of the London Independent has said as much, “These assassins lurk in the shadows and come out for hire.”

It might be difficult for you to put aside your cause, but for your own sake, find out who is behind these assassinations, bombings, and the rest of it.
 
Think about it for a minute. Pictures or no pictures, would someone get up off his couch and buy a Glock 9 with a couple of 30-bullet magazines with no job and living and at home and take a cab to mall across town to Safeway and open fire for no good reason. 

And then the cab driver gets out of his cab and goes shopping in the Safeway to boot. 

Today, they took down the yellow police ribbon and released the vehicles from the parking lot.  Still no mention of a cab.

Why has this cab driver become so unimportant all of a sudden?  He was seen with Jared.  Did you eer get a ride in a cab where the cab driver got out of the cab with you and went shopping?

It’s easy for you to continue thinking the way they tell you to think, but a lot of people are not buying it anymore.  In fact, I think the control of the story has gotten out hand. 

Those mackerels want everyone to join their school.

It just doesn’t happen thataway.  Believe me.
Or not.  I think you’ve got a dog or two in the hunt, anyway.

So, if that’s the case let’s drop this back-and-forth.

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By Inherit The Wind, January 13, 2011 at 6:03 pm Link to this comment

They finally fell into the deep shit-hole and are now splashing around as loudly as they can.  Best thing to do is just step back so you don’t get spattered.

For them, the shit really hit the fan.  This is what they’ve been asking for.  Too bad a whole bunch of dead and injured people will have to pay for it for them.

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By SuperMike1661, January 13, 2011 at 2:34 pm Link to this comment

Garth: First of all, please note that this murder of this baby and these people is only the latest step in an ongoing slaughter by Rightests starting soon after the financial crises of 2008. I post details below from JEP at another site (spread this list far and wide). Why would Right Wing Propagandists turn up the heat soon after the crises? Think.

Secondly, if you EVER feel that the big picture is alluding you, “follow the money”. Deep Throat was one of the most sophisticated cops of his era, and he KNEW what to watch. 

-July 2008: A gunman named Jim David Adkisson, agitated at how “liberals” are “destroying America,” walks into a Unitarian Church and opens fire, killing two churchgoers and wounding four others.

—October 2008: Two neo-Nazis are arrested in Tennessee in a plot to murder dozens of African-Americans, culminating in the assassination of President Obama.

—December 2008: A pair of “Patriot” movement radicals—the father-son team of Bruce and Joshua Turnidge, who wanted “to attack the political infrastructure”—threaten a bank in Woodburn, Oregon, with a bomb in the hopes of extorting money that would end their financial difficulties, for which they blamed the government. Instead, the bomb goes off and kills two police officers. The men eventually are convicted and sentenced to death for the crime.

—December 2008: In Belfast, Maine, police discover the makings of a nuclear “dirty bomb” in the basement of a white supremacist shot dead by his wife. The man, who was independently wealthy, reportedly was agitated about the election of President Obama and was crafting a plan to set off the bomb.

—January 2009: A white supremacist named Keith Luke embarks on a killing rampage in Brockton, Mass., raping and wounding a black woman and killing her sister, then killing a homeless man before being captured by police as he is en route to a Jewish community center.

—February 2009: A Marine named Kody Brittingham is arrested and charged with plotting to assassinate President Obama. Brittingham also collected white-supremacist material.

—April 2009: A white supremacist named Richard Poplawski opens fire on three Pittsburgh police officers who come to his house on a domestic-violence call and kills all three, because he believed President Obama intended to take away the guns of white citizens like himself. Poplawski is currently awaiting trial.

—April 2009: Another gunman in Okaloosa County, Florida, similarly fearful of Obama’s purported gun-grabbing plans, kills two deputies when they come to arrest him in a domestic-violence matter, then is killed himself in a shootout with police.

—May 2009: A “sovereign citizen” named Scott Roeder walks into a church in Wichita, Kansas, and assassinates abortion provider Dr. George Tiller.

—June 2009: A Holocaust denier and right-wing tax protester named James Von Brunn opens fire at the Holocaust Museum, killing a security guard.

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By garth, January 13, 2011 at 1:58 pm Link to this comment

SuperMike,

I can see clearly now. 

By the way, who are your people?  Isn’t the meme going around that we are all Americans, now singling us out from the past claims that we are all brothers and sisters?

I mind my Ps and Qs and try to stick to my last.

All this is talk, talk, talk.  It is meant to reach a stalemate, just like the abortion issue and bring us back to just where we started.  It’s like a daytime tv soap opera.  Round and round. 

But it’s just too juicy for the slovenly-minded elected officials to reach some agreement. 

This could play out for a long time, and all you’ll get out of it is a big pain in the ass.

What’s behind this story?  What’s behind the abortion talk that seems to be rearing its ugly head? 

David Frum says it’s ‘Reefer Madness’.  Is he that far from wrong?  Not only in accessing this problem as reefer madness but in his supposition that He is smart and all the rest of us are stupid.

The problem is disconnectedness.  Obama’s foisting of Republican policies leads a lot of us to feel (I don’t think most Americans think anything.  They believe and, therefore, they feel.) that we are no longer part of this merry-go-round.

We the ‘poople’, have been dienfranchised, or defecated out as the previous spelling of the word ‘people’ might indicate.

The focus has shifted from the attack itself to the rhetoric (free speech) to gun control (second Amendment) and now to protecting the sorry asses of the Government electees, including the House of Representatives.  They now want to be isolated and armed.  Hmmmmmmmmm.

That’s it.  Elect ‘em and then take pot shots.  As Chuck Berry sang, “Too much monkey business for me to be involved in.”

One of the sorriest revelations of human coldness came when Gifford’s Brother-in-law gave his statement from outer space.  I guess these androids don’t care about any Life, human or otherwise.  His tone of voice and his choice of words were very revealing.

If I were a homicide detective on this case, I’d want to talk to him at length.  What did he know before he left the Earth’s gravitaional pull? 

Kelly?  Wasn’t that the name of a news reporter and the husband of neo-conservative Jewish woman who supported the invasion of Iraq.  In fact, this Kelly died in Iraq. 

But he stuck his head out, as shown on C-SPAN, and used the old stories by Howie Carr of the Boston Herald, to expose Ted Kennedy’s and Chris Dodd’s drunkeness in the fancy-schmancy restaurants of DC.

Who didn’t know or at least suspect that?  But he was fast-tracked to the top of expose writing cabal in Washington circles who followed left-wing liberals.

First, I’d ask Major Kelly, or is it Maj. Mudd, if he wanted to lawyer up.  Major Mudd of Boston tv would say, “I’ll be blasting you.”

Last but not least, what about an apology for the barbaric actions of the Republicans at Senator Wellstone’s funeral?  You people are worse than evil.  You are scumm trying to be evil.

How’s that for setting the tone for compromiso?

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By SuperMike1661, January 13, 2011 at 12:44 pm Link to this comment

garth

I agree with you, yet you do not see far enough.

Let the Right Wing zealots Out-Gun the Left by the current 30 to one.  BUT let Right Wing Propagandists RESTRAIN their zealots. Not agitate them!

If the Right wants its huge Armory, let them have it! But quit SLAUGHTERING MY PEOPLE as a side effect!

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By garth, January 13, 2011 at 11:45 am Link to this comment

“‘I don’t see any political trend there, more than just a mindless rage. I think to add more to that is to give him too much credit,’ said Rep. Trent Franks (R) of Arizona in a Fox News interview on Monday.”

Trent Franks is not only harelipped, he’s also harebrained.  His address to the House about the shooting was as touching as he could be, but he wants to brush the incident into the memory hole.

Boston Police recently employed the use of some military technology that detects when and where gunshots go off.  It locates the shot and police can be there in minutes, no need for a 911 call.

The problem is: the number of stabbings have gone up.

And all this time I thought we were talking about criminals and crime?

I don’t have any dog in this hunt, but I watched a debate between a researcher for the gun lobby and the ex-mayor of Fort Wayne, Indiana.

Both sides had impressive arguments and important points to make.  The gun lobbyist, however, focused the real issue, Crime.

Example:  A knife-wielding drug addict tried to rob a convenience store in central MA last month and he was met with the owner who was licensed to carry a firearm.  Instead of shooting the would-be robber, the owner showed his piece and the robber gave up.

In MA, it is difficult to get a permit to carry a concealed weapon.  One of the reasons for a license being granted is that the applicant carries large amounts of cash. 

A friend of mine was a car dealer and he carried large amounts of cash, and he had to go through the THIRD Degree to get the permit.

Another friend was a chief of police in a well-to-do community north of Boston.  He refused to allow one male resident, who demonstrated low self-control, a permit, and he caused quite a stir.  The chief kept his ground and the resident never got his permit.

Macabre?

Maybe we should arrest persons who take photographs of themselves like the one Jared Lee Loughlin took. It depicts him as a sort depraved, macabre invidual.  And it is being wallpapered all over out tv screens.  I guess the networks are resorting to the adage: A picture is worth a 1000 words.

Maybe mayhem is not macabre to some who still believe in existential threats, eugenics, and the superiority of one race or creed over another.

If that is the case maybe we should take another look at what evolution really means.  Human nature does not seem to be evolving.  We are getting nowhere fast.

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By Ditto, January 13, 2011 at 10:00 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

One question to ask is “Who benefits?”, second is “Who profits?”
When you find them you have found the ones who designed this hit, gave the orders and got the flunky [Jared Lee Loughner] to execute them.

Ever since the start of USA it’s one specific group that’s been responsible for assassinations of the single nutter gunman type or high profile ones.
This same group goes back in time through all the wars, inquisitions, Roman empire, Palestine and Summer. That’s 6,500 yrs of more.

You can squabble, bitch, complain and whatever else you want but you will never know unless you expose the secrecy at the top and dig deeper, much deeper. Ones you see in media are the puppets or front men to hide behind, behind many layers of deceit.

It is refreshing to see some on Truth Dig have actually started to put the pieces together and it is hoped they continue to do so.

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By Inherit The Wind, January 13, 2011 at 1:23 am Link to this comment

Rico:

For immigrants, especially in Arizona, or even people who RESEMBLE immigrants, especially in Arizona, it has become very clear that the willingness to differ between them and to protect the rights of the legal immigrants and citizens is not there.  Our laws are intended for everyone equally.  Our rights are for everyone equally.  Yet the idea in Arizona that just because someone looks and sounds a) like an immigrant and b) like the large percentage of illegals who had been caught the police NOW have a right to demand proof of legal residency at their discretion is flat-out racist and has been shown to be in similar situations in other states.

Here in NJ every Black driver expected for years to be stopped by the police for even the most minor of offenses—doing 70 in a 65 zone while people were flying past at 80 or 85.  In the most egregious case 4 students were shot by police in a van, stopped for no other reason than it was 4 young black men in a van.

My point being: The reason the Republican party has lost its Hispanic base, despite sharing views on religion, abortion, capitalism, the military and homosexuality came down SOLELY to the calls for cracking down on illegal immigrants.  Why? The reason is obvious!  Remember the GIGANTIC “Si, Se Puede” march on Washington?  Almost every Hispanic in America figured out in super-hurry that THEY would be subject to all sorts of harassment.  Why? Because they look and sound like the vast majority of illegals.

I have NO idea how many illegal East Europeans are here, or Chinese.  Nobody cares about them, even though the prostitution trade is being filled with young women and girls from these regions.  Which is a worse problem: Illegals working jobs Americans don’t want or illegally brought-in women forced into prostitution?  Which would YOU rather control and reduce with limited resources?

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By SuperMike1661, January 13, 2011 at 1:21 am Link to this comment

It is NOT the responsibility of bloggers to explain precisely how Right Wing Propagandists activate their Gunmen.  We do not know how they build all of their sophisticated Dog Whistles.  However it IS our responsibility to cite the growing list of Right Wing Murders in the United States AND TO MAKE THIS LIST GO VIRAL.

This from poster JEP from another site:

•  July 2008: A gunman named Jim David Adkisson, agitated at how “liberals” are “destroying America,” walks into a Unitarian Church and opens fire, killing two churchgoers and wounding four others.

—October 2008: Two neo-Nazis are arrested in Tennessee in a plot to murder dozens of African-Americans, culminating in the assassination of President Obama.

—December 2008: A pair of “Patriot” movement radicals—the father-son team of Bruce and Joshua Turnidge, who wanted “to attack the political infrastructure”—threaten a bank in Woodburn, Oregon, with a bomb in the hopes of extorting money that would end their financial difficulties, for which they blamed the government. Instead, the bomb goes off and kills two police officers. The men eventually are convicted and sentenced to death for the crime.

—December 2008: In Belfast, Maine, police discover the makings of a nuclear “dirty bomb” in the basement of a white supremacist shot dead by his wife. The man, who was independently wealthy, reportedly was agitated about the election of President Obama and was crafting a plan to set off the bomb.

—January 2009: A white supremacist named Keith Luke embarks on a killing rampage in Brockton, Mass., raping and wounding a black woman and killing her sister, then killing a homeless man before being captured by police as he is en route to a Jewish community center.

—February 2009: A Marine named Kody Brittingham is arrested and charged with plotting to assassinate President Obama. Brittingham also collected white-supremacist material.

—April 2009: A white supremacist named Richard Poplawski opens fire on three Pittsburgh police officers who come to his house on a domestic-violence call and kills all three, because he believed President Obama intended to take away the guns of white citizens like himself. Poplawski is currently awaiting trial.

—April 2009: Another gunman in Okaloosa County, Florida, similarly fearful of Obama’s purported gun-grabbing plans, kills two deputies when they come to arrest him in a domestic-violence matter, then is killed himself in a shootout with police.

—May 2009: A “sovereign citizen” named Scott Roeder walks into a church in Wichita, Kansas, and assassinates abortion provider Dr. George Tiller.

—June 2009: A Holocaust denier and right-wing tax protester named James Von Brunn opens fire at the Holocaust Museum, killing a security guard.

Thanks to JDMagicDJ

MOVE THIS LIST OUT.
CAN ANYONE EXPAND THIS LIST?

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By reynolds, January 12, 2011 at 10:22 pm Link to this comment

it is an outrage that anyone might imply an association
between gun violence and people who speak the language
of gun violence. these same crack pots accuse sarah
palin of being a soulless, money grubbing
harpy who would seize upon the occasion of a tragedy to
grandstand just because she comports herself in the
fashion of a soulless, money grubbing harpy who would
seize upon the occasion of this tragedy to grandstand.
how dare you?

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rico, suave's avatar

By rico, suave, January 12, 2011 at 9:55 pm Link to this comment

ITW:

Point taken. But let me finish this thread with a few fine distinctions. Is the Tea Party “anti-immigrant” or anti “illegal immigrant”? Was black racism Ferguson’s motivation, or was it the Sharpton grievance industry? Then again, maybe Ferguson was like Loughner, not a racist, not a Tea Party clone, just a nutcase, pure and simple.

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By reynolds, January 12, 2011 at 9:53 pm Link to this comment

yeah, whatever- last year, 1993- same thing.
you distract from miss suave’s riveting sililoquy with
your trifling insistence on factual data. clearly,
guns, gun sight graphics, gun talk, talk of shooting
guns are not about shooting, or guns, or aiming, or
bullets, or shooting guns….
i don’t understand why some folks are so hell bent on
holding people responsible for their words and deeds.
that’s so 90’s, or 60’s, or something… whatever.
come on, you’re better than that.

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By Inherit The Wind, January 12, 2011 at 9:37 pm Link to this comment

Nor can you say WHERE Loughner got his ideas, yet you have no hesitation, and without a scintilla of evidence, in fact with evidence to the contrary, in attributing Loughner’s actions to the Tea Party.

Come on ITW. You’re better that that.
***************

Rico, I guess you missed the key sentence:

******************
Um, Colin Ferguson committed his horrific murders on the LIRR in 1993, not 2010.  I can’t say WHERE he got his racist ideas, but I would never argue that some of the absurd assertions that Black people couldn’t be racist didn’t impact and contribute to his paranoia.
******************

No denial that responsibility falls partly on the extremists of the time (that is, leftist extremists) Remember: We can see clearly that Loughner was anti-immigrant. I simply am not familiar with the documentary trail Colin Ferguson left behind 17 years ago.  I’m not saying it’s not there. I just said I don’t know!

Yes, I am better than that.  A more careful reading of my post shows that.

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By rico, suave, January 12, 2011 at 9:22 pm Link to this comment

ITW:

OK. 1993, not last year. Yes, pre-Gingrich, pre-triangulation, pre-fellatio Clinton, ever heaven to be a progressive, the end of the dreaded Reagan-Bush years, of post-Gulf War I peace and love in the new liberal dispensation. Ferguson somehow didn’t get the message. And was the right then as rabid in laying his crime at the feet of runaway liberalism as the left is at blaming the Tea Party today for Giffords?

“I can’t say WHERE he got his racist ideas…”

Nor can you say WHERE Loughner got his ideas, yet you have no hesitation, and without a scintilla of evidence, in fact with evidence to the contrary, in attributing Loughner’s actions to the Tea Party.

Come on ITW. You’re better that that.

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By Inherit The Wind, January 12, 2011 at 7:54 pm Link to this comment

Um, Colin Ferguson committed his horrific murders on the LIRR in 1993, not 2010.  I can’t say WHERE he got his racist ideas, but I would never argue that some of the absurd assertions that Black people couldn’t be racist didn’t impact and contribute to his paranoia.

I won’t even begin to tell you what I think about Rick Scott.  While I wouldn’t say such horrific things should happen to him, I do expect, like Governor Brewer, that he will institute measures that cost ordinary people their lives, under the phony rubric of “cost-cutting”.  He’s not actually interested in cost-cutting, but rather in using that as an excuse to provide money-making opportunities for other rich people by privatizing.  Kind of like George W. Bush, only with brains.

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By rico, suave, January 12, 2011 at 7:41 pm Link to this comment

Then came Rep Paul Kanjorski (D-Pa.) (he lost) saying during the campaign last year in reference to Rick Scott, Republican candidate for Governor in Florida, “They should put him against a wall and shoot him.”

Ahem.

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By rico, suave, January 12, 2011 at 7:17 pm Link to this comment

Who goes on and on and on about racial injustice here in the US, but the left? How many Al Sharptons are out there?

Then came Colin Ferguson, an angry black man, who gunnned (with a gun that is) down six white commuters on Long Island last year, for no apparent reason other than racial animus.

And when Al Sharpton deplores the massacre, we are instructed to agree that, yes, Ferguson was a deranged psychopath, nothing more. To suggest that he had a politica ax to grind, or even more cynically, that maybe Sharpton put him up to it would be the height of racism and demagoguery. Why, Sharpton’s explications aren’t “spin” at all, but true regret for the unfortunate tragedy.

Ahem.

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By rico, suave, January 12, 2011 at 6:21 pm Link to this comment

ITW;

Kaczinsky (I can’t spell it either)used bombs (the weapon of choice for lefties?), not guns. I’m confident that had he used a gun he would have been vilified as a rightwing nutcase, regardless of his politics.

I agree that the ‘60s radical lefties changed tactics, but I believe it was because they found them widely unpopular and counterproductive, not out of any moral compunction or second thoughts. They still held onto Mao’s “power from the barrel of a gun” trope. As for taking responsibility for the misguided use of violence, well…

And as much as I really despise Palin, her denial that the TP had anything to do with Loughner and vice versa (which more and more appears to be accurate) is not spin.

Show me an example anywhere of someone who has said, “I demand my second amendment right to shoot people.” This is what the left, especially here on TD, is trying to portray the TP as standing for.

If a madman drives his Chevy Volt into a crowd and kills a bunch of people, one of whom happens to be a Republican politician, are we to vilify all Chevy Volt owners (most of whom probably have “Kucinich/Nader in 2012” stickers on them), indeed all drivers of cars, as Republican haters?

Once again, this Loughner guy is looking more and more like a Chapman or a Hinckley: Someone who wanted to be noticed for killing a notable person. There is no politics, only a gun. Had he used a bomb or a knife, none of this ridiculous name-calling back and forth would be taking place. (We could get back to the far more productive name-calling over health care or the wars.)

It’s as simple as this for me- The Tea Party is sympathetic to the concept of private gun ownership. The left is antipathetic to the concept. I personally hate guns, don’t own one, don’t plan to. But I have no problem with the concept, particularly since it’s constitutional and legal.

It is no more logical, or fair, to automatically blame and vilify the TP when a gun is used in a crime than it is to blame and vilify car owners (read TP adherents), or car makers and dealers (read TP leadership), when a nutcase intentionally runs over someone with a car.

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By Peetawonkus, January 12, 2011 at 4:51 pm Link to this comment

rico
At the first reading, that almost resembles logic. Then we read through your post again and find that it’s the kind of logic that says if one man can dig a posthole in 60 seconds then therefore 60 men can dig a posthole in one second.

As for “demonizing and incendiary rhetoric”, come now, don’t play so coy. Are you really going to make us quote, yet again, the numerous exhortations to patriots to grab their guns and enact 2nd Amendment solutions? Or the death threats to Democrats (Giffords, for instance), offices vandalized, abortion providers shot (in church), clinics and government buildings bombed. We could go to almost any comments section on Yahoo right now and find plenty of “demonizing and incendiary rhetoric”, including murder fantasies of killing liberals.

You can live in denial about the brutal ugliness of what you believe in—but don’t try to sell it to the rest of us as mere philosophy. Nobody is buying it.

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By rico, suave, January 12, 2011 at 4:29 pm Link to this comment

Maani:

“Because it is the “Tea Party mentality” that is associated with easy access to guns, and lax ownership and carrying laws.”

As I said, this is rhetoric practice for you.

Premise: The Tea Party has no problem with the Second Amendment.

Premise: Some people use guns to kill people.

Conclusion: The Tea Party is to blame for guns deaths.

I heard an interesting analogy the other day. A study found that the most popular type of hat worn by violent criminals is the New York Yankees baseball hat. (Who has the time to come up with a stat like that anyway?) Are we to conclude that Derek Jeter (read Sarah Palin) and Yankee fans generally support violent crime?

The only “Tea Party mentality” legitimately attributable to Loughner is the fact that he knew how to use a gun. There was NO Tea Party philosophy or politics which drove him to his crime. The term “Tea Party mentality” is meaningless. Does al Qaeda have a “Tea Party mentality” because they use guns? Do the Mexican drug cartels?

And what does “demonizing and incendiary rhetoric” include? Being anti-tax, anti big government, pro free market? Or is it even more inclusive- being anti-progressive. And what TP “leader” beside that nitwit Palin engages in such “constant” rhetoric?

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By felicity, January 12, 2011 at 2:51 pm Link to this comment

A question was recently asked of the men and women
sitting around the ‘Morning Joe’ table if Saturday’s
incident was a “surprise” - “Were you surprised by what
happened Saturday?”  After some thought, each said,
“No, not really.”  Their answer probably contains more
information than all the millions of other words and
opinions floating around the event.

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By Maani, January 12, 2011 at 1:44 pm Link to this comment

Rico:

“It seems the more we learn about Jared Loughner, the harder it becomes to identify him with the Tea Party. But, that’s not important. What’s important is the rhetoric practice the progressives are getting when it comes to gun violence: make a blanket, sweeping generalized accusation, irrespective of its accuracy, then sit back and criticize the “falseness” of the Tea Party’s mea culpas. The next time a loony tunes shoots a prominent national figure, it will, ipso facto, be blamed on the ‘Tea Party mentality.’ It won’t matter if the shooter is head of the Socialist Workers Party and the victim is Sarah Palin- it will be the fault of the Tea Party.”

If you are right, and the next shooting of a prominent national figure by a loony tune is ascribed to a “Tea Party mentality,” it will still be correct.  Why?  Because it is the “Tea Party mentality” that is associated with easy access to guns, and lax ownership and carrying laws.  It is the “Tea Party mentality” that is associated with CONSTANT (not just occasional) demonzing and incendiary rhetoric by its leaders.  It is the “Tea Party mentality” that equates dissent with treason.

The left supports gun controls (even with some Dems spinelessly unable to take on the NRA), refrains (in MUCH larger part than the right) from demonizing and incendiary language, and may (foolishly) use the term “enemies” to describe the opposition (for which Obama apologized IMMEDIATELY - where are the apologies from the right?), but does not throw the word “treason” - a truly poisonous, inciteful word - around lightly.

Peace.

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By reynolds, January 12, 2011 at 1:16 pm Link to this comment

itw;

i know that you know that she knows it’s nonsense

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By Inherit The Wind, January 12, 2011 at 1:08 pm Link to this comment

Rico,
You know that’s nonsense.  Nobody blamed the Right Wing for the last Left-wing terrorist, Ted Koczinski (however the hell you spell it) and his actions.  The Unabomber, who murdered one victim not far from here, right in NJ.

The Left figured out long ago that its rhetoric had led to the Weather Underground, the SLA, and the Unabomber, and the language used changed drastically.

RESPONSIBILITY WAS TAKEN! CHANGES WERE MADE!

Meanwhile, now 4 days after the shooting, Sarah Palin, the most prominent denizen of the language that opponents are “enemies” to be “in the cross-hairs” and “taken out” has lashed back with the usual right-wing spin, spin, spin tactic.

She even dares to use the term “Blood Libel”.  This woman has no shame, no ethics, and NO understanding of what America and the Constitution means.

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By sharonsj, January 12, 2011 at 1:05 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The crazy right will learn nothing from this.  In fact, they are already claiming that the shooter is a liberal!  If you listen to right-wing hate radio, all you hear is how everything wrong and evil comes from the left, the Democrats, and liberals.  Not only can the Republicans do no wrong but if you listen to Limbaugh, he never even mentions Republicans—it’s like they don’t exist and the Dems do it all by themselves.

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By reynolds, January 12, 2011 at 12:21 pm Link to this comment

black posting pervades this site. there are enough
volunteers to obviate any need of paid
participation. 
go on and on and on and on and on old man,
chaviztathing, miss suave are all nonsense.
por ejemplo;
“it seems the more we learn about jared loughner,
the harder it becomes to identify him with the tea
party.” spoken with all the mental acuity, moral
authority of a sky waitress. that’s right;
the shooter is more in league with all the other
factions which use gun sights to make a point.
like saying ‘the more we learn about melting
glaciers the harder it is to blame warmer
temperatures’. if a pedestrian with the right of way
is run down in the cross walk, suave and company
will tell you how it was the pedestrian’s fault.
suave is an emotional as well as physical eunuch and
i’m going to ride her like a rented mule. eunuch.

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rico, suave's avatar

By rico, suave, January 12, 2011 at 10:38 am Link to this comment

It seems the more we learn about Jared Loughner, the harder it becomes to identify him with the Tea Party.

But, that’s not important. What’s important is the rhetoric practice the progressives are getting when it comes to gun violence: make a blanket, sweeping generalized accusation, irrespective of its accuracy, then sit back and criticize the “falseness” of the Tea Party’s mea culpas.

The next time a loony tunes shoots a prominent national figure, it will, ipso facto, be blamed on the “Tea Party mentality.” It won’t matter if the shooter is head of the Socialist Workers Party and the victim is Sarah Palin- it will be the fault of the Tea Party.

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kerryrose's avatar

By kerryrose, January 12, 2011 at 7:46 am Link to this comment

The Right is scrambling to regain the national narrative. 

Just as they know phrases like ‘second amendment solutions’ and ‘Don’t retreat RELOAD!’ and ‘Obama is PURPOSELY weakening the economy’ stirs people to anger and hatred, they know the consequences of that narrative has put them in a defensive position.

You will see them (as they are doing now) trying to shame people into making any kind of connection.  Whether it works or not is up whether or not the Dems roll over (which is generally pretty likely).

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By Inherit The Wind, January 12, 2011 at 12:34 am Link to this comment

Wait a second, this doesn’t make sense: A guy shows up at a Presidential rally with a rifle and when he gets back to his car his tires are flat and the windows are smashed…
There are two obvious flaws in this story:
1) If you show up at a Presidential rally with a gun and you ain’t a cop or Secret Service, you’re not walking back to your car anytime soon!
2) How did they know which car was his or where it was?

Sounds like an urban myth to me.

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rico, suave's avatar

By rico, suave, January 11, 2011 at 11:22 pm Link to this comment

“When the guy returned to his car, all his tires were flattened and the windows were smashed.”

By whom, pray tell? By peace loving progressives mayhaps?

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By garth, January 11, 2011 at 10:37 pm Link to this comment

One last post on this issue:

My brother went to see Obama in NH when that guy showed up with a rifle.  People were startled.

When the guy returned to his car, all his tires were flattened and the windows were smashed.

He made his point, but it must’ve cost him a few thousand dollars.

Also, the excerpt from The Christian Scienc Monitor is worthless.  They were last to even begin printing Ellsberg’s Pentagon papers.  They were afraid at first until after five days of the NY Times and Washington Post making the six o’clock news they jumped on the bandwagon.

I cancelled my subscription in 2005 when they printed a bunch of gibberish about George’s Social Security plan and how ‘it was good thing for you and for me’

Their motto should read, ‘Harm no rich man.’

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By garth, January 11, 2011 at 10:21 pm Link to this comment

“PARTICULARLY those of a seemingly disenfranchised, undereducated, underemployed WHITE population. To argue otherwise demostrates naivete or ignorance.”

Hate speech begins at home. 

Naivete?  I think you mean, “And that’s the way it is.”

If everyone heeded your warning and the advice of the President of Google and went and got a PhD in Computer Engineering at MIT or Cal Tech, we wouldn’t be in this pickle.

Thanks for your terse observation.

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By skimohawk, January 11, 2011 at 7:00 pm Link to this comment

“Circling the wagons” is the most apt description of what’s going on at the moment.
Slice and dice and spin it any way you want to.
The motives of the shooter are unknown.

What is known is that the right-wing nutjobs ( in office, on the airwaves, or as “consultants” ) have garnered a good share of the electorate by preying on the fears of the public, PARTICULARLY those of a seemingly disenfranchised, undereducated, underemployed WHITE population. To argue otherwise demostrates naivete or ignorance.

Don’t expect any response from Sarah this week. She’s ducking for cover while they get those wagons tied together.

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By gerard, January 11, 2011 at 6:59 pm Link to this comment

Great wrongs are done under the influence of secret deceit and silence.  Great wrongs are done under the influence of open, violent, threatening invective.

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By John F. Butterfield, January 11, 2011 at 6:24 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The political rhetoric is to blame. Otherwise it would have been the star player of an opposing sports team, the current cheating wrestler, or an actor playing the bad guy in a movie that would have been shot.

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By Inherit The Wind, January 11, 2011 at 6:06 pm Link to this comment

They are all on the defensive “circling the wagons”.  That’s as good as an admission of complicity.

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By garth, January 11, 2011 at 5:59 pm Link to this comment

Human Sacrifice is not done with in our current religio-political states.  Giffords was sacrificed for a gambit at control of Congress.  The NRA versus the AIPAC.

I don’t want to mis-characterize these strategies as right ot left.  Both seem to be insane.  So put away your guns and ammo.  You look and sound like assholes.

The AIPAC side with its media wants to keeps us in suspended adolescence, reactionaries.  (Oh my God!  This has to stop.  Do anything, just stop it.)

First the horror of the sacrifice, then the glutting of the airwaves with anti-hate speech rhetoric.  Then comes the anti-gun move, a fave of the limp wristed myopic Liberals, of which I am one.

What they are really after is the NRA’s influence over Washington.  They don’t care if all you grungy goy go out and shoot each other tomorrow.  They really want control over Congress plain and simple.  They want to remove the threat of a armed uprising in the west and midwest possibly with Jews in the crosshairs.

That’s why Giffords was sacrificed.

I can hear it all now, and I’ve heard it all before umpteen times.  The play is always the same.

Americans have to turn off and grow up.  Reactionary adolescence is no where to be.  It’s like being a caged, abused animal.  They have no decency.  Now it appears not even for their own.

Stick to your guns and let your Congressmen know.

NRA vs AIPAC, the main event.

You like things just the way they are.

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By REDHORSE, January 11, 2011 at 5:47 pm Link to this comment

The Tucson Tragedy opens American dialogue on the definition of what “violence” is. For the “Right” to knowingly steal a citizens home with fraudulent paperwork, letting loved ones die for lack of health care, gutting American industrial cities with no regard to consequence or destruction of a National Economy isn’t violence. Mass for profit “double standard” incarceration of a populace isn’t violence. An open lie to enable a for profit war that continues to kill innocents isn’t violence. Kidnap, torture and murder isn’t violence. It’s just business.

  There may be a “Left” and a few willing to stand in support of human reason and a very few in open protest but for the majority their silence is violent. It allows. They call for leadership but their is no shared common ground and humanity from which the voice of leadership can spring. Their silence binds as surely as a chain.

  Is Man a brute or beast undeserving of home, family, community and worthwhile occupation if it stands in the way of avaricious greed? Does the Mother holding the hand of a Child dying of treatment denied experience less violence and damage than the gunshot victim?

  America itself is wounded and dying, the victim of violence far greater than that in Tucson. More terrible is the dying of the Light it represents. Tucson for a moment merely exposed the wound. How different from ourselves is the shooter lost in delusional confusion unable to decern truth from lie or fact from fiction, friend from foe, Soul starved and wounded striking blindly out. “There but for fortune go you or I.”

    This “violence” shocked many awake and the “violent machine” is fighting hard to replace the curtain and the illusion that all is well. It isn’t.

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