RE: You see, your scenario just doesn’t add up…

not my ‘scenario’ - did not write it - likewise, when gerard writes, fearnotruth: Regarding your statement ...“can lead mainstream media figures into the fever swamps of Internet conspiracy theory.” - not my statement either - quote from the linked article

I agree: ‘Who benefits?’ always has to be asked. - in the ‘leaks’ Pakistan, Iran and Turkey are vilified - nothing of CIA, Blackwater or Mossad operations

as for the complex ‘scenario’ to which they’ve gone “to so much trouble” - again, it’s not mine, but if true, serves very well to build an enticing legend

summing up Webster Tarpley’s analysis: limited hangouts to manipulate the direction of the war - check his KPFA interview here

http://www.kpfa.org/archive/id/63211

note: I rarely posit my own ‘personal’ opinions, simply because professional analysts are really the only ones worth citing - why would anyone care about my opionon

as for suspicions about anyone here - well founded:

2 things to never forget:

1. “Deception is a state of mind and the mind of the state.” - James Jesus Angelton - Director of CIA Counter Intelligence (1954-74)

2. “The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media.” - William Colby - Director of the CIA (1973-76)

“agreed - all the more reason to co-opt it - morphing of the phenomenon is
worth noting, if it’s permitted to borrow from another posting.”

Now let me get this straight: you think the CIA set Wikileaks up so it could leak information which reveals their crimes and the US military’s crimes? For what possible purpose? And if Wikileaks is a creature of the CIA and the Pentagon why are those organizations hellbent on torturing Manning into lying about Assange’s involvement in his leaking of the ‘collateral murder’ video? Why did they go to so much trouble to get Assange locked up in London and why are still trying to extradite him to Sweden so they can put him on a rendition flight to a US prison - or more likely Guantanamo Bay since his abduction would be illegal under American law and international law?

You see, your scenario just doesn’t add up, it makes no sense at all that the CIA would be so determined to destroy Assange if he was actually working for them. There is simply no benefit for the CIA and the Pentagon in anything Assange has done or wants to do and the old question, ‘Who benefits?’ always has to be asked. You’re just off on some frolic of your own which is completely unconnected to logic and the facts and Wikileaks’ purpose. The actions of the CIA and the Pentagon reveal only that they have a hell of a lot to hide, but they certainly do not indicate that Wikileaks is on their side. You’re sounding like someone who works for the CIA, yourself. Isn’t the CIA’s motto a quote from the Bible, ‘And ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set ye free’
Sounds a lot like Fearnotruth, doesn’t it? And it’s a pretty ironic motto in light of how they are trying to put a hand over Wikileaks’ mouth to stop it telling the truth, at all costs.

RE: This was always going to happen and it was beginning to happen before
Wikileaks burst on the scene and it will continue in spite of anything the elites
do to try to stop it.

agreed - all the more reason to co-opt it - morphing of the phenomenon is
worth noting, if it’s permitted to borrow from another posting - e.g.

Wikileaks Rest in Peace

The original Wikileaks initiative is dead, replaced by a bloated apparatus
promising 260,000 cables at slower than a snail’s pace. At the rate of 20 cables
a day it will take 13,000 days to finish—some 35 years.

http://cryptome.org/0003/wikileaks-rip.htm

Sorry fearnotruth but you’re way off course with all that. You clearly don’t know the history of Wikileaks: I do and it has nothing to do with the CIA or the mainstream media that it ever came into being. Wikileaks is their worst nightmare in both camps. And I can assure you Assange has everything to fear from both camps. Even though the model of information for the public that he has established is the future of publishing.

The grey ladies may be publishing Wikileaks’ information but this will be their last hurrah and the more intelligent of them know it full well. The Guardian and the rest are acting as midwives for the birth of the new media, where the rich owner and the gatekeepers become a thing of the past. This was always going to happen and it was beginning to happen before Wikileaks burst on the scene and it will continue in spite of anything the elites do to try to stop it. You can’t put the genie back in the bottle: the old media will go on losing more and more money and becoming more and more redundant. I don’t even read the papers any more and I’m sure I’m not alone. I do read the arts section to keep up with movies and books but the rest of it is spin and I have no use for it.

Assange is now in the same position that the pamphleteers once were. The position Tom Paine was in.  You’ve got to remember that Zola was driven out of France in fear for his life after he wrote his ‘J’accuse’ letter revealing how corrupt the French military were and how they had framed and imprisoned Dreyfus, an innocent man. As the French say, ‘The more things change, the more they stay the same.’ But the change to new media is completely inescapable. It’s a new paradigm and the spies and liars will just have to get used to it.

...does any of this sound remotely legal?

begging the question: if they wanted him silenced, what’s stopping them?

enough demagoguery has charged the airwaves, calling for a kill, staging a
‘lone gunman fanatic’ to do just that is Black Ops 101

consider this as perhaps the more pertinent question: Whom does it best serve
that Wikileaks, it’s founder and the whole issue move forward as a ‘hot button’
and perceived source of ‘trustworthy info.’ in an acknowledged sea of ‘disinfo.’
and naked lies?

A little bit of background on rendition.

” N221SG

N221SG is a nondescript Learjet 35 with the tail number “N221SG”, reported in the media to possibly be used as a US Department of Defense prisoner transport. The plane is registered to Path Corporation of Rehoboth Beach, Delaware, identified as a CIA front company.

When the aircraft landed in Copenhagen, Denmark on March 7, 2005, the Danish opposition party Red-Green Alliance demanded an explanation of the plane’s presence.

N313P

N313P was a Boeing 737 that the Chicago Tribune reported on Tuesday, February 6, 2007, flew from Tashkent to Kabul, Afghanistan on September 21, 2003, and then to Szczytno-Szymany International Airport in Poland, landing at 9 p.m. “It stayed on the ground for 57 minutes before taking off for Baneasa Airport in Bucharest, Romania, an airport that, according to the Marty Report, ‘bears all the characteristics of a detainee transfer or drop-off point,’” states author Tom Hundley on page 14 of the Tribune. The 737 then continued on to Rabat, Morocco, and Guantanamo Bay, the Marty Report said.

The N313P registration for a Boeing 737 was subsequently cancelled, and it was reassigned to an experimental RV-7A.

N4476S (manufacturer’s construction number 33010/1037) is a plain white 737-7BC[6] Boeing Business Jet (BBJ) with the tail number “N4476S”, owned by Keeler & Tate Management and is reported by news media to be used as a US Department of Defense prisoner transport. It is also known as the “Guantánamo Bay Express”. The aircraft was previously registered N313P, and owned by Premier Executive Transport Services.
According to an in-depth investigation into the worldwide network of detention and interrogation facilities employed in the War on Terror, by the British Guardian newspaper, (March 2005).

“We were able to chart the toing and froing of the private executive jet used at [an abduction in Sweden] partly through the observations of plane-spotters posted on the web and partly through a senior source in the Pakistan Inter Services Intelligence agency (ISI). It was a Gulfstream V Turbo, tailfin number N379P; its flight plans always began at an airstrip in Smithfield, North Carolina, and ended in some of the world’s hot spots. It was owned by Premier Executive Transport Services, incorporated in Delaware, a brass plaque company with nonexistent directors. Rendition was used by the Bush administration to evade justice.

Robert Baer, a CIA case officer in the Middle East until 1997, told us how it works. “We pick up a suspect or we arrange for one of our partner countries to do it. Then the suspect is placed on civilian transport to a third country where, let’s make no bones about it, they use torture. If you want a good interrogation, you send someone to Jordan. If you want them to be killed, you send them to Egypt or Syria. Either way, the U.S. cannot be blamed as it is not doing the heavy work.”

The executive jet with the tail number N379P was again brought to public attention by Swedish TV4’s documentary, Det brutna löftet (“The broken promise”), aired May 17, 2004. The documentary claimed that the expulsion of two men, Ahmed Agiza and Muhammad al-Zery - ordered by the Cabinet - to Egypt on December 18, 2001 was carried out by hooded U.S. agents. The plane booked by the Swedish Security Police (SÄPO) was cancelled when another plane arrived - N379P - a Gulfstream V executive jet supplied by the firm (Premier Executive Transport Services, Inc.) which works exclusively for the U.S. Defense Department.”

Now, tell me, does any of this sound remotely legal? Those who don’t see this as illegal are the problem and they include, apparently, Barack Obama who is a constitutional lawyer.

diamond…I totally agree with you.  However, I am looking at this from a political rather than a legal perspective.  No current regime in power has any respect for Assange and would rather see him used as an example.  However, neither the British nor the Swedes will extradite Assange without bona fide legal documentation that a crime has been committed.  Of course, publishing secrets, either by newspapers or WikiLeaks is not a crime, but stealing them is and that is where Manning comes into play.  He will eventually break and turn “states evidence” and that’s all the documentation needed to extradite Assange to the USA.  The only person to get away with “stealing” of secrets was Daniel Ellsberg, but he was fortunate to have done it in regard to a wholly unpopular war and was acquitted.  Assange will not be so lucky!

I don’t see it Blackspeare: legally the US can’t do a thing. The rendition aspect is the only one they can use to get their hands on Assange. Whatever Manning says because he wants the torture to stop, it’s his word against Assange’s who says he never even heard of Manning until he read his name in the media. No doubt Assange has people who can vouch for that and if Manning is being subjected to what amounts to torture, that evidence will be inadmissible and it wouldn’t be hard to make a case that he is being tortured right now.

Furthermore if it is legal to arrest Assange then they would also have to arrest the editor of the New York Times, Le Mond, Der Spiegel, the Guardian and every journalist who has written articles on the information contained in the leaks. They can’t have one law for Assange and another for people who work for corporations of the media variety. That’s not how the law works. And in the final analysis what Wikileaks has done with regards to the United States is reveal crimes and misdemeanors committed by the government and military of the United States: there is a law to protect whistleblowers in America and the First Amendment protects both freedom of speech and freedom of the press. It’s the criminals who committed the crimes who should be arrested, not the whistleblowers or the editors who revealed their crimes to the world. The shadow of Daniel Ellsberg and the Pentagon Papers loom large over all of this. There is simply no legal means to arrest or prosecute Assange and you can’t extradite someone who hasn’t even been charged with a crime and I would like to remind everyone that Assange has not been charged with anything. Only rendition would deliver him into the hands of the CIA and the Pentagon but if the United States did that it would have finally given up on any semblance of democracy or decency. It would be saying to the world, ‘Fuck you. We are above the law. We are Fascists and the rule of law is whatever we say it is.’

Assange has only one fear and that is the turning of Manning to implicate him.  Once they have Manning’s certified affidavit admitting to Assange’s collusion, then extradition can be completed and Assange will be a very old man by the time he is freed from a US prison.

RE: ...the Internet has tremendous potential for revealing things that should
be revealed as public information if democracy is to survive….

agreed - but, question everything - no source is beyond question

2 things to never forget:

1. “Deception is a state of mind and the mind of the state.” - James Jesus
Angelton - Director of CIA Counter Intelligence (1954-74)

2. “The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major
media.” - William Colby - Director of the CIA (1973-76)

fearnotruth:  Regarding your statement ...“can lead mainstream media figures into the fever swamps of Internet conspiracy theory.”  It seemss as if anything under the sun could be inserted to fill in the dots, as mainstream media figures find it very easy to lead people who are blind-sided by their ignorance of the facts into any chosen swamp of deceit, Internet or otherwise. 
  The point is that the Internet has tremendous potential for revealing things that should be revealed as public information if democracy is to survive.  Governments, if they tell their people the truth, will be better governments.  Democracies, particularly, simply cannot survive unless people know what their government is doing. 
  There have never been so many levels of evidence of that truth as we have at present, and the United States is suffering bitterly because of unadmitted deceits on the part of both media and government.  The collusion between them permits—even encourages—corruption.

American steps in it´s own poop and looking for
others to blame, like calling for the Murder of
Juliann Assange by Senator Pete King, Minister
Huckbee asking for murder, you got murder and now
your whining, cry baby, America asked for it, so with
this 22 year old same kids we send to Iraq and
Afghanistan where they smoke Hash and Heroine and
kill people lots of people, Drone killings, bombing
Yemen BUT YOU CRY WHEN THE MURDER COMES HOME where it
all started. False Flag operations friendly fire and
50,000 long term solitary confinement, largest prison
population in the world, Folks can you imagine the
bad Karma America has where President Bush Tortures.
You asked for AND PAYBACK IS NOW! stepping in your
own poop is like pissing in the wind.

recommended reading - approach it very critically, keeping in mind this
question: typically, what is the goal of l’agent provocateur?

Assange’s Extremist Employees
Why is WikiLeaks employing a well-known Holocaust denier and his disgraced
son?
Michael C. Moynihan | December 14, 2010

http://reason.com/archives/2010/12/14/the-assange-employees

Last week, I wrote that the widely-linked article positing that the CIA was
behind a Swedish woman’s accusation of rape against Julian Assange was
authored by a Russian-born, Swedish-domiciled, multi-aliased anti-Semite
and Holocaust denier currently writing under the name “Israel Shamir,” a.k.a.
Adam Ermash or Jöran Jermas. The broader point had little to do with the
efficacy or morality of WikiLeaks—there are plenty of debates available on the
narrower issue of government transparency; this isn’t intended to be one of
them—but was concerned with how ideology and confirmation bias (WikiLeaks
is a good thing, therefore Assange must be defended, and the CIA has done
bad stuff in the past so—cui bono?—Assange’s accuser must be a Langley
asset) can lead mainstream media figures into the fever swamps of Internet
conspiracy theory.

suave the fairy tale queen.

The Americans love or hate them either way, killers
on loose. Accusations about Julian´s mental health,
Ha Ha have you seen the medication floating around in
the Senate and house. America´s love for Micheal
Jackson the real narcissist, Julian a responsible
HUMAN letting us know what is really going on with
the TAX money. So Bless him-Julian for being a party
pooper, When they come for you, the general public,
cry for the truth, you too will be another Julian, we
all need to be like wikiLeaks DEMANDING TO KNOW, THAT
IS YOUR ONLY RIGHT TO KNOW, so you can do something
about your lack of control over your own life, more
Nazi attitude disguised by Homeland Security
Patriotism is Police state, Justice means JUST US AND
YOUR NOT ONE OF US. Julian now becomes most
important, it´s a no brainer, America dumbing down to
land of idiots and mickey mouse, I smell Rats in the
house.

Rico,
A few years ago I, too, would have thought the man nuts.  Prior to the “Patriot Act”, the MCA and the revised FISA, I would have sworn on anything you like that “extraordinary rendition” was a spy novel fantasy.

Then it happened to a Canadian, changing planes in NY, who was kidnapped and spirited to Syria where he was tortured for over a year.

Then an American citizen, native-born, was arrested IN THE USA, and held without charges for years, unable to even have a lawyer represent him, tormented and tortured until, when he could FINALLY get to a civilian court, he plead guilty just to end it all.  His name is Jose Padilla.  I have NO idea if Mr. Padilla is a criminal, or even a traitor.  He may well be.  But his extreme and total robbing of his, and OUR rights to justice make Constitutional questions of being “forced” to have health insurance look silly.

If the US Government could get away with what they did to Mr. Padilla, and to a Canadian, Mr. Assange is wise to be frightened.  One of my great disappointments with President Obama is that he didn’t call for a return to justice for people like Padilla.

Please note that the death threats against Assange by Senators and Congresscritters rivals the frenzy that led to the shooting of Dr. Tiller, by a man to this day thinks he was doing God’s work.

If I were Assange I’d be terrified, too.

rico, suave, January 12 at 3:51 am

Opinions are what they are, and the criticisms of those opinions are what they are as well.

This latest worthlessness from you is more a condemnation of your style, politics and refusal to look past your nose. It says nothing whatever about Assange. Are you slowly becoming your hero, Grym the fairy tale king?

“Try as I may I can not escape the sound of suffering. Perhaps as an old man I will accept suffering with insouciance. But not now; men in their prime, if they have convictions are tasked to act on them.”—Julian Assange, 2007 blog entry

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” Nobel Peace Prize Winner Barack Hussein Obama at a Philadelphia fundraiser

*********************************************

“No question in my mind these are tough times for America. But there’s no question in my mind we’ll prevail. Right is on our side. And we’ll prevail, because we’re a fabulous nation, and we’re a fabulous nation because we’re a nation full of fabulous people.”  Former President George W. Bush

**********************************************

Lesley Stahl on U.S. sanctions against Iraq: “We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that’s more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?”

Secretary of State Madeleine Albright: “I think this is a very hard choice, but the price—we think the price is worth it.”—60 Minutes (5/12/96)

*******************************************

“My fellow Americans, I’m pleased to tell you today that I’ve signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes.” President Ronald Wilson Reagan telling one of his favorite knee slappers

*******************************************

No wonder some people are worried about Wikileaks

‘Oh, Phuuuuuleeeze!

Rendition??

What a flaming narcissist.

Julian- Get ovah yo sef!’

How is it narcissistic to believe that the United States wants you dead when certain of its elected representatives have stated publicly that they do? And why would innocence keep Assange out of Guantanamo Bay when the Department of Defense itself stated in a report that around 90% of those in Guantanamo Bay have not committed a crime? And why would the CIA not torture him when they have tortured so many others, including guiltless women and children and young men rounded up in night raids at random?

You’re the one who needs to get over yourself, Rico-who-thinks-he’s-suave, because your intellect and your comprehension of facts and your understanding of your own country’s history are mediocre to say the least.

It is most convenient that Assange met these accusers in Sweden; no other
country is as cozy with the US on extraditions, not even England. This is no mere
coincidence. Assange has every reason to fear extradition. This is a crass political
move and setup, with collusion.

Instead of scrouging around to find or cook up a law to use to kill the messengers, our government should recognize the Leaks as a golden opportunity to self-correct.
  The government knows that present methods of diplomacy are not working; results prove it as we see a America increasingly defeated and on the defensive. Using secrecy, bribery and “deals” is very expensive and tends to backfire.  Secrecy also prevents citizens from knowing what is going on so they cannot participate helpfully in their own government’s policies. We can’t expect other countries to attempt democratic methods if we ourselves don’t use them.
  A short-sighted “kill the messengers” response from our government will make it “fall on its own sword”, but welcoming needed changes that the Leaks suggest would strengthen the U.S. internationally and eliminate some of our bad reputation for exploitation and hauteur.
  Whatever we citizens can do to defend Assange, Manning and WikiLeaks will ultimately help the entire country to move intelligently into the 21st Century.

Oh, Phuuuuuleeeze!

Rendition??

What a flaming narcissist.

Julian- Get ovah yo sef!

Thank you, TruthDig, for keeping this issue above the
fold.  Donation to follow for this.

Assange is right to be concerned about the Empire
striking back.  This craven US-driven political
persecution must not stand.  Justice forbids it.

They have cut off all Assanage’s Wikileaks funding,
but checks can still be sent to it and also his legal
defense fund (please do it). Justice being the
commodity that it is (thanks to US-brand capitalism),
Assange nonetheless needs the best lawyers money can
buy.  If we all give a little, that will be enough. 

Please help this man, someone brave enough to be on
the people’s side, who is no more guilty than is the
New York Times, among other major corporate “news”
outlets, his crime being that the CIA/FBI complex
does not ‘own’ him as it owns the 5 Sisters and the
major newspaper editors.  We cannot fail ourselves by
failing him and those who would let us know what is
being done hidden under Old Glory, all the things the
WaPo and NYT (and too often even here on TD, sad to
say) and all the rest habitually tell half the story, 
but more often, letting the whole thing fall to the
cutting room floor.  As I said, thanks for keeping
this on the front page.

He should.

The lawless arm of the U.S. has a knack for violating another nations sovereignty.

The U.S. fears the ICC, many of our former leaders like Cheney and Kissinger would be rotting in third world jails if there was true quid pro quo justice in the world.

http://www.globalissues.org/article/490/united-states-and-the-icc