By Sodium-Na, September 14 at 5:38 pm
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Thank you Sodium-Na for your Eid greeting and your other kind words!

I am really impressed by your knowledge of Arabic literature and poetry. And I am particularly impressed with your guessing that Abu Al-‘Al’-Ma’rri(the blind poet)was the poet I was paraphrasing.

Unfortunately I don’t have the time nor the original sources to dig up for you the specific source from among his works at this time. However, if I manage to do that in the future, I will keep you posted.

Besides the intellectual and thought affinity that we share, we are also sharing the trial of having to take care of our spouses’ failing health. I remember you posting something about that.

So while I keep you and your spouse in my prayers and thoughts, I will do my best to stay calm and composed as I see and read about the bigotry of those who are targeting my faith and ethnicity as scapegoats for all the ills that are befalling yours and my adopted homeland.

My latest philosophical attitude to deal with this disturbing trend is to think that shit happens. And when shit happens, it’s not wise to toy with it or stir it up, for it will emit more bad odors. The best way to deal with shit is to flush it down the toilet. And this is the essence of your early wise advice though I am putting it as a parable, using metaphorical language!   

Cheers dear friend!

2.

By Maani, September 15 at 12:25 am

”This is the same person referred to in Revelation (written in ~90 A.D.) who will “causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads, that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark…” [Interesting that a new thread appeared on Truthdig just 24 hours ago on RFID chips, and that there has been talk of just such a use of the technology…]”

I know who it refers to maani. It has to do with the beast from the sea. But the individual and/or state to which it refers is NEVER called “the antichrist.” NEVER! The word only appears in 1 John and in the context of a spirit of antichrist in the world and individuals being antichrists because they are possessed of an antichrist spirit by denying that Jesus is come in the flesh!

In Christianity if you don’t accept Jesus as god come in the flesh you’re lost and you go to hell! Period!

The RFID chip is old news… it’s been around for years. Homo sapien societies have always progressed from less to more complex forms. As the complexity increases so does the desire for the leadership elite to place more controls on the populace. That governments try to control every aspect of human behavior is hardly revelatory.

If the book of the Apocalypse has anything of value to be extracted from it, it’s the look that we get into 1st century society as compared to 21st century society… nothing has changed… the “church” (all religions) working hand in hand in the oppression of the masses!

(Not everyone is in accord on the date of the book! Some, especially the Preterists, hold to an earlier pre-70s date. And there’s much controversy on just who the author also.)

By Maani, September 15 at 12:25 am

”As for whether those who reject Jesus’ divinity, evne if you were correct in your reading of the passage, that would not in any way gainsay Jesus’ own words re loving one’s enemies.”

The reading is absolutely correct… especially when viewed from a 1st century perspective. And this is exactly what your brothers in the lawd are saying and have been saying since the creation of Christianity! That all who deny the divinity of Jesus are lost and they have demonstrated just how adamant they are about that belief by killing multi-millions to prove the point.

Loving your enemy hasn’t a damn thing to do with whether or not one is saved. Even Jesus said that one MUST be born again and you can’t be born again if you are of the antichrist spirit. These are basic tenets of the Christian faith and it surprises the hell out of me that you either aren’t aware of what it is that you hold to or are ignorant of them.

If Christians practiced all of what Jesus said you’d probably all be non-existent. As we have discussed in the past, Jesus also said not to take any concern for the day and that god would provide yet find a middleclass or higher Christian that doesn’t have a retirement plan to save his ass in his old age.

People simply pick and choose those parts that fit in with their world view prejudices. And that goes for ALL religions… Islam included!

It’s all bullshit and no one really believes it maani. Do you know how I know? Because you never see an ayatollah strap on a bomb, the Pope has an armored car, and all elite religious leadership live opulent livestyles.

1.

By Maani, September 15 at 12:25 am

” Once again, you show your truly remarkable ignorance of Scriptural knowledge and interpretation.”

No maani, on the contrary I’m well versed in that so-called scriptural knowledge. And you damn well know it!

By Maani, September 15 at 12:25 am

”The original versions of some of John’s and Paul’s letters not only capitalize the word “Antichrist,” but speak of the Antichrist as the “man of sin,” “man of lawlessness,” “son of perdition,” and other phrases.  That is, they are referring to a PERSON, not a group or body politic or idea.”

I know all about that maani and the FACT still stands that there is NO “the Antichrist.” In 1 John, the writer of the book is clearly speaking of an “antichrist spirit.” He was warning the people of the existence of spirits other than the Christians’ holy spirit! (3rd person of that ménage à trois thingy) He is not speaking of a “the antichrist.” The “man of lawlessness” and the “son of perdition” is/are antichrist in the sense that he does not accept your jeebus as the Christ… incarnate savior… and/or he comes in the place of Jeebus (a world savior)… which follows the secondary meaning of the word in Greek. “Of the antichrist spirit” is a universal label that applies to anyone not accepting jeebus as the second person of the Crister 3 for 1 divinity.

For someone who says I’m lacking in “scriptural knowledge you sure give many reasons to doubt your ability…

”Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.” 1Jo 2:18

OPPS!

Again… that you disagree is by no means a surprise… that’s why there are an estimated 25-37 thousand different Christian sects, denominations, etc. The same happens in all religions. Shiite vs. Sunni? Brahmin vs. Tamil?

Nemesis:

“There is no “the antichrist” maani. That’s why the newer versions of the bible have “the” added to the text…Cristers had to cover their butts on all that apocalyptic fear-mongering gibberish! There is only the spirit of antichrist. Anyone not buying the Jesus is god incarnate theme is by definition an antichrist—opposed to the Messiah (the Incarnate Savior)—as defined by Christians. There are those who hold to the meaning as one who stands in lieu of Christ also.”

Once again, you show your truly remarkable ignorance of Scriptural knowledge and interpretation.

The original versions of some of John’s and Paul’s letters not only capitalize the word “Antichrist,” but speak of the Antichrist as the “man of sin,” “man of lawlessness,” “son of perdition,” and other phrases.  That is, they are referring to a PERSON, not a group or body politic or idea.

This is the same person referred to in Revelation (written in ~90 A.D.) who will “causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads, that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark…” [Interesting that a new thread appeared on Truthdig just 24 hours ago on RFID chips, and that there has been talk of just such a use of the technology…]

As for whether those who reject Jesus’ divinity, evne if you were correct in your reading of the passage, that would not in any way gainsay Jesus’ own words re loving one’s enemies.  The two are completely compatible: I may believe that a Muslim who rejects Jesus’ divinity will not be “saved” (just as they may believe that my rejection of Mohammed as greater than Jesus might put me in “danger”), but that does not mean I should not - do not - love them as a fellow human being, and treat them with the same love, peace, forgiveness, humility, compassion, patience, tolerance, charity, selflessness, service, justice and truth with which I treat fellow Christians, or Jews, or Buddhists, or anyone else.  Including you.

Peace.

Re: Arabian Sinbad,September 13 at 9:35 pm.

Sinbad,

Thank you for your kind words. Although much appreciated,sometimes I wonder if I really deserve your magnanimous compliments,especially when I remember that I was weak as I lost my temper for really very shallow reason/cause. I like to think I am much bigger than losing my temper for morons.

I regret the fact that I have missed reading your exchanged communications with ITW,on the thread of “September 11 Happened to us All”. I do not have the time to review everything being published on Truthdig’s website. Sorry,I missed the exchanges. The first chance I may have,I am going to dig out the thread of “September 11 hapened to us all” and read the exchanges.

You certainly have been up to the task of what I thought you were. I have never lost faith in your noble heart.Never.

Before closing this post of mine,I am curious about the name of the poet-philosopher whose some of his lines of poetry you translated to use as a metaphor in one of your responses to the moron.

Since I am fond,no…..since I am addicted to Arabic poetry of such great poems and poets: Al-Mualaqat Al-Ashara,Abu Al-Tayeb Al-Mutanabi,Abu Ala’Al-Ma’ri(the blind poet),Al-Buhtary,Ahmad Showqi,Hafiz Ibrahim,Elia Abu-Madhi,Nizar Qabani etc…,please tell me the name of the poet you have quoted and translated some lines of his poetry in your response to the retarded mind. I am just curious. Let me guess:

It sounds like from the poetry of Abu Ala’Al-ma’ri(the Blind poet) who is considered by Arab scholars as the “Poet Of All Arab Philosophers” and the “Philosopher OF All Poets”. Was he the one you have translated from his poetry?

Will appreciate a response. Thank you,Sinbad.

And although a little bit late: Koll Am wa antum be khair-Eid fitr mubarak. Short translation for the curious readers: Wishing You a Happy Eid.

Cheers….

By Maani, September 13 at 4:47 pm

”Re your first post, okay - you got me.  I’m actually the antichrist, and I waited until now to announce my presence - just for you, Nemesis! - because, despite your protestations to the contrary, you are so much like me that I am proud to call you my acolyte.  Welcome to the team.
Peace.  (But only fraudulently…) “

There is no “the antichrist” maani. That’s why the newer versions of the bible have “the” added to the text… Cristers had to cover their butts on all that apocalyptic fear-mongering gibberish!

There is only the spirit of antichrist. Anyone not buying the Jesus is god incarnate theme is by definition an antichrist—opposed to the Messiah (the Incarnate Savior)—as defined by Christians. There are those who hold to the meaning as one who stands in lieu of Christ also.

I did not say that you were the antichrist. I said that IF you deny that Christ has come in the flesh—meaning god incarnate—then you are OF the spirit of antichrist according to Christian tenets. Why do you feel the need to distort what I wrote? Isn’t that wrong in your brand of whatever the hell it is that you believe?

The only reason any of this matters is to prove your evaluation of compatibility with respect to the Islamic and Christian views of Jeebus incorrect. There are foundational differences between the two and these differences have been at the root of the interfaith violence, bloodshed, and hatred between the adherents of the two myths.

Sodium-Na:

Ocne again, thank you for your kind words.  I find that being peaceable with everybody makes for a kinder, gentler world, even if it is not reciprocated.  And God know we need kindness and gentleness in this world!

Jai Guru Deva Om

Thanks, AS.  I’m glad to see that you see me now, as I see you now: Strong-willed on some issues, but not evil for disagreeing on some, because we clearly agree on others.

As much as I despise and hate this “Preacher” Terry Jones, his right to buy and burn a Qu’ran, as offensive as I find that act (and I find it as offensive as burning a Torah or the Constitution), I believe the harm that comes to the REST of us by stopping him is far greater.  If we don’t defend the freedom to commit such reprehensible acts, we won’t be able to defend the freedom to commit necessary and noble ones.

If you believe the Qu’ran is the Word of God, and believe in an afterlife, I’m betting the Preacher will pay there.  But that’s up to God and not you or me.  If you don’t believe it’s STILL a despicable act!

I’m against ALL book-burning.  Burning knowledge, even false knowledge (like Ann Coulter’s or Rush Limbaugh’s books) is, to me, an incredible sin.

I do not hate Muslims at all.  I ADMIRE the 5 pillars of Islam. I constantly remind Christian friends and acquaintances that Jesus is a GREAT prophet in Islam, second only to The Prophet, and that there’s a Book of Mary.  I admire that The Prophet recognized that Jews and Christians worshiped the same God He did and so he turned his attention to the heathens, figuring that Jews and Christians didn’t need his efforts.

I eat lunch with a Muslim friend and colleague nearly every day, when we can.

I FULLY recognize that like Christians and Jews, there can be very evil people who claim to be Muslim, but that most, like most people, are just ordinary decent people trying to get by, to have a happy, prosperous and safe home, and to raise their kids to have a better life than they do.

I even regularly condemn the vicious right wing that currently rule Israel.  To them, I’m not Jewish enough. My marriage to my wife by a Conservative rabbi isn’t a valid Jewish marriage.  My infant conversion of my younger son, including his immersion in a Mikvah run by Orthodox, is, to them STILL not enough to say he’s a Jew—and, if they could, they would bar him from making Alyah because of it. Thankfully, wiser heads barred THAT from happening.  I predicted that these talks would fail and they will, as Netanyahu can’t and won’t even TRY to stop the expansion of the settlements, which MUST be stopped if peace is ever to happen.

I’m not an unreasonable man, nor do I see Arabs or Muslims in general, or the Palestinians in particular as enemies or, worse, less than human.

I, for one, advocate the development of an “EU” for Israel, Palestine, Lebanon, and Jordan because THAT will guarantee peace and prosperity for all of them.

By Sodium-Na, September 13 at 2:10 am

“ITW,

A graceful hand is extended for a genuine handshake.

I profoundly respect such a gesture. It is humanly wise to do what you have just done,ITW.

I will be very disappointed if Sinbad fails to match your genuine gesture.”
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Sodium-Na,

Your post above speaks volumes for your noble character and peace-loving spirit. No amount of words can express my appreciation for what you stand for.

You will not be disappointed since I have already reciprocated ITW’s noble gesture on another thread entitled “Sept.11 Happened to Us All.” At that thread, I made a short comment and ITW responded by agreeing with me, to which I responded with reciprocating kindness. It seems to me that the spirit of the Jewish new year of 5770 coinciding with the end of Ramadan and the beginning of the Eid has contributed to this pleasant reconciliation. Now, with him agreeing with me another time, I am pleased to learn that we are seeing eye-to-eye on several important issues.

As to what you said about nemesis2010 to maani, I understand your anger and frustration. I also appreciate your previous advice to everyone to ignore this bigot and hatemonger. Since it is inevitable to bring his name up for the last time, heeding your advise, I promise to totally ignore him.

The last time I responded to him directly, I said the following:“May you be consumed by your hatred and bigotry till you drop dead!” When I said that, I was paraphrasing an Arab poet-philosopher who said that hate-mongering, bigotry, jealousy and ignorance, can only be conquered and defeated by ignoring its practitioners. This poet-philosopher made a parable of those who have these evil vices to a small fire; as long as it continues to get fuel and fodder it will grow in intensity, but if these are cut off, then the fire consumes itself till it dies out. Hatemongers and bigotry-mongers receive fuel in two ways: one is to have some misguided people agreeing with them; the other is to have people of reason honoring them with responses. Since we cannot do the former, we can do the latter.

This whole thing is a metaphor to say that you uttered a very wise advice when you suggested to stop fueling his evil fires and dignifying him with reasonable responses. No matter what evil enormities the evil one will utter in the future, I promise to never bring his evil name up again.

After all, what one can, say by way reasoning, to someone who denies that man has a soul! And what one can say to someone who has great scorn for holy scriptures and yet has the audacity to use the same scriptures to contradict others!

Maani,

You are horribly Polit.

Horribly Courteous.

Horribly Decent.

Horribly Forgiving.

I would NOT dignify this noisy and rude character with a response.Period.

Look at him: he presents himself so cheaply as the “Field Marshall” for enforcing free speech and free expression because everyone of us is “against?” free speech and free expression!!

It is hallucination of a lost soul,I think.

Even the way he presents his overused garbage in a repulsive,obnoxious and arrogant manner kills one’s apatite to engage in a possitive and constructive exchange of views.

I wish I could be as PEACEFUL as you are,Maani.

Sometimes,I wonder if it is a good thing to be peaceful with everybody!!

Nemesis:

Re your second post (about burning books and building mosques, I think I made it clear that I also support both within the context of the First Amendment, and support both the imam’s right to build the Islamic center on Park Place and the pastor’s right to burn Qur’ans in Gainesville.

Re your first post, okay - you got me.  I’m actually the antichrist, and I waited until now to announce my presence - just for you, Nemesis! - because, despite your protestations to the contrary, you are so much like me that I am proud to call you my acolyte.  Welcome to the team.

Peace.  (But only fraudulently…)

@ Shanana, maani, Arabian Sinbaddie, and ITW:

There’s no hate or bigotry in standing up for a minority’s right to express themselves because it’s a matter of free speech. The Islamists can burn bibles till the cows come home and I’d be right there with them and their right to express what they think of the bible. They can build a Mosque wherever they desire and the money to purchase the land. I could care less.

I hope they build the Mosque and then a topless bar and a gay bar open on either side of it with one of those Anton LaVeigh Church of Satan congregations opening directly across the street. Then the city should put up a big banner welcoming everyone to democracy.

It’s not bigotry to maintain a position that a minority can burn a book in protest of the actions by others that they consider offensive to their sensitivities.

There’s no anger, hate, or bigotry in pointing out the stupidity of someone trying to make the erroneous and absurd connection between 50 people burning a certain book with the acts of a national program of cultural and literary cleansing in Nazi Germany. One may not like looking like a fool before the world but that is easily avoidable if one learns to think before one decides to place his/her foot in his/her mouth.

It’s not bigotry or hate or lies to laugh at those who believe a goat herder flies a magic horse to meet with an angel. It’s not bigotry or hate or lies to laugh at those that believe a virgin can give birth or that hundreds of Jewish undead zombies in different stages of molecular decomposition can rise from their graves and walk about town. It’s not bigotry or hate or lies to laugh at those who believe that a white bull elephant can touch a woman’s side with his trunk and disappear into her and months later she births, from her side, the first Buddha. It’s not bigotry or hate or lies to laugh at people who believe inorganic matter has a conscience or that dead seeds can germinate. You and your beliefs are not above criticism just because you think them sacred. Your beliefs defy all logic and reason and even believers think the belief system of “the other” as influenced by evil and incredible and we’ve centuries of internecine and interreligious hatred and warfare to prove it.

And it’s not bigotry, hatred, or lies to speak of the racists, bigoted, hateful, murderous and too often genocidal behavior of the adherents in mythology. The truth hurts and your reaction to it provides the evidence that that is so.

By Maani, September 12 at 1:54 am

”As for not being worthy of response, perhaps you are right.  And I can even think of a passage or two of Scripture that would support my withdrawal from his tirades (one is about casting one’s pearl before swine…LOL).”

Bwaaahahahahaha… maani made a funny.

Isn’t there a verse of instruction from the Lawd Jeebus where he instructs you—his followers—to learn from people like me because we’re smart and you’re stupid?

Actually your Lawd is telling you to learn prudence from people like us—Children of the world. It even helps get you into heaven.(Luke 16:9)

You enjoy trying to make it appear that I don’t know what the hell I’m talking about but I keep exposing you for either a fraud or someone who belongs to such a bizarre brand of “Christianity” that no main stream Christian church would have anything to do with you or one of the most ignorant so-called pastors in the whole of Christianity.

The whole referenced text in 1 John 4 speaks of Jeebus’ divinity.

”Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh  is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.”

Why would it be important for someone to admit that jeebus came in flesh? Isn’t every man flesh? What John is saying is that Jeebus is GOD come in the flesh –second person of that trinity thingy! And he ain’t taking a back seat to Mohammed because Mohammed isn’t God; Jeebus is!

So it follows that in order to be of God and have the “spirit of truth”—according to foundational Christian tenets—you have to accept Jeebus as the Messiah; the Incarnate Savior. 

The Jews and the Islamists (as well as all non-Christians) do not believe that, thus, according to basic Christian tenets they’re of that anti-Christ spirit!

Therefore Pastor Bob Old is correct in saying that it’s not hate but rather love that motivates his burning of the Quran and exposing Islam as a lie. He’s only trying to save their souls and keep all Islamists out of hell fire and damnation according to his belief system!

And if you… pastor maani… don’t hold to that belief you’re of the anti-Christ spirit! (1John 4:1-3) And if you do believe but are ashamed to admit that for fear of “offending” others then Jeebus will be ashamed to acknowledge you before the angels… because you are denying him and his divinity! (Lu 12:9)

I know of no pastor worth his salt that doesn’t believe and hold to this most important of Christian tenets. I’ll say it again… I believe that you’re a fraud trying to pass himself off as a Christian.

ITW,

A graceful hand is extended for a genuine handshake.

I profoundly respect such a gesture. It is humanly wise to do what you have just done,ITW.

I wiil be very disappointed if Sinbad fails to match your genuine gesture. I know from reading between the lines of his rage,sometimes,that he has a wonderful,good and big heart. Only an old hand like me could detect and understand.

I also lose my temper,once in a while,but I always regret it later.

Well,the only condolence I have when one loses his or her temper is the fact that we are all human beings and have our own short-comings and within the short-comings,part of our human nature resides.

Happy New Year,ITW.

Arabian Sinbad,
I find myself yet again in agreement with your two posts of Michael Moore.  I have, from the beginning of this controversy quickly realized that the mis-named “Ground Zero Mosque” is EXACTLY what we need: A high-profile Islamic community center run by decent and peaceful people who, in the fish-bowl they will now be in, show America what MOST Muslims are like and should be like.

Yet we have the right-ding-a-lings trying to tell us that these are terrorists.  It’s like trying to say Mother Theresa was a terrorist because she’s a Catholic and so was Timothy McVeigh.  It just doesn’t pass the straight-faced test.

But you lose me when you tell Nemesis or whoever that they are going burn in Hell because they want to “frame” this as an attack on America.  What matters is what people do with the lives they have, good or bad.  They will be remembered for their good or evil, or forgotten.  They will be praised or cursed.

The propaganda against Muslims is taking its told as evidenced by the attention this small Florida church preacher has received.  Frankly, Sodium-Na, your posts are much needed on these threads and are at least as important as your course in Islam, if not more so. Strong, verbal putdowns and name calling have become commonplace here, especially when posters are called on as to their spins and outright lies.
Thanks to you Arabian Sinbad for Michael Moore’s daily blog.

Sodium-Na:

While I sincerely appreciate your comments and concern re Nemesis, he and I have tangled before (as you probably guessed), so I am well aware of his troll-ish behavior and his ignorance, arrogance, and diarrhea of the mouth.  He and I both know that neither of us is going to change the others’ mind, or perhaps even come to some respectful disagreement (since I doubt he even knows what respect is…LOL).

Still, I enjoy engaging him just to see what kind of silliness he will come up with, and just how deeply into his own sense of self-righteousness he will go.  I doubt he has ever admitted being wrong about ANYTHING at any time.  I have certainly never seen it on these boards since he arrived.

As for not being worthy of response, perhaps you are right.  And I can even think of a passage or two of Scripture that would support my withdrawal from his tirades (one is about casting one’s pearl before swine…LOL).

However, I do not believe that ANYONE is truly “hopeless,” and so I will continue to engage with him on occasion just to see if perhaps he has undergone some revelatory moment that has changed his transparently angry, disdainful and smug attitude and shown him how to engage with others in a respectful, meaningful, understanding, compassionate and - dare I say it? - loving way.

Peace.

If That ‘Mosque’ ISN’T Built, This Is No Longer America

Michael Moore’s daily blog

“I am opposed to the building of the “mosque” two blocks from Ground Zero.
I want it built on Ground Zero.
Why? Because I believe in an America that protects those who are the victims of hate and prejudice. I believe in an America that says you have the right to worship whatever God you have, wherever you want to worship. And I believe in an America that says to the world that we are a loving and generous people and if a bunch of murderers steal your religion from you and use it as their excuse to kill 3,000 souls, then I want to help you get your religion back. And I want to put it at the spot where it was stolen from you.
There’s been so much that’s been said about this manufactured controversy, I really don’t want to waste any time on this day of remembrance talking about it. But I hate bigotry and I hate liars, and so in case you missed any of the truth that’s been lost in this, let me point out a few facts:
1. I love the Burlington Coat Factory. I’ve gotten some great winter coats there at a very reasonable price. Muslims have been holding their daily prayers there since 2009. No one ever complained about that. This is not going to be a “mosque,” it’s going to be a community center. It will have the same prayer room in it that’s already there. But to even have to assure people that “it’s not going to be mosque” is so offensive, I now wish they would just build a 111-story mosque there. That would be better than the lame and disgusting way the developer has left Ground Zero an empty hole until recently. The remains of over 1,100 people still haven’t been found. That site is a sacred graveyard, and to be building another monument to commerce on it is a sacrilege. Why wasn’t the entire site turned into a memorial peace park? People died there, and many of their remains are still strewn about, all these years later.
2. Guess who has helped the Muslims organize their plans for this community center? The JEWISH COMMUNITY CENTER of Manhattan! Their rabbi has been advising them since the beginning. It’s been a picture-perfect example of the kind of world we all want to live in. Peter Stuyvessant, New York’s “founder,” tried to expel the first Jews who arrived in Manhattan. Then the Dutch said, no, that’s a bit much. So then Stuyvessant said ok, you can stay, but you cannot build a synagogue anywhere in Manhattan. Do your stupid Friday night thing at home. The first Jewish temple was not allowed to be built until 1730. Then there was a revolution, and the founding fathers said this country has to be secular—no religious nuts or state religions. George Washington (inaugurated around the corner from Ground Zero) wanted to make a statement about this his very first year in office, and wrote this to American Jews:

  “The citizens of the United States of America have a right to applaud themselves for having given to mankind examples of an enlarged and liberal policy—a policy worthy of imitation. ...

  “May the children of the stock of Abraham who dwell in this land continue to merit and enjoy the good will of the other inhabitants—while every one shall sit in safety under his own vine and fig tree and there shall be none to make him afraid.”

3. The Imam in charge of this project is the nicest guy you’d ever want to meet. Read about his past here.
4. Around five dozen Muslims died at the World Trade Center on 9/11. Hundreds of members of their families still grieve and suffer. The 19 killers did not care what religion anyone belonged to when they took those lives.”

Michael Moore-continued:

5. I’ve never read a sadder headline in the New York Times than the one on the front page this past Monday: “American Muslims Ask, Will We Ever Belong?” That should make all of us so ashamed that even a single one of our fellow citizens should ever have to worry about if they “belong” here.
6. There is a McDonald’s two blocks from Ground Zero. Trust me, McDonald’s has killed far more people than the terrorists.
7. During an economic depression or a time of war, fascists are extremely skilled at whipping up fear and hate and getting the working class to blame “the other” for their troubles. Lincoln’s enemies told poor Southern whites that he was “a Catholic.” FDR’s opponents said he was Jewish and called him “Jewsevelt.” One in five Americans now believe Obama is a Muslim and 41% of Republicans don’t believe he was born here.
8. Blaming a whole group for the actions of just one of that group is anti-American. Timothy McVeigh was Catholic. Should Oklahoma City prohibit the building of a Catholic Church near the site of the former federal building that McVeigh blew up?
9. Let’s face it, all religions have their whackos. Catholics have O’Reilly, Gingrich, Hannity and Clarence Thomas (in fact all five conservatives who dominate the Supreme Court are Catholic). Protestants have Pat Robertson and too many to list here. The Mormons have Glenn Beck. Jews have Crazy Eddie. But we don’t judge whole religions on just the actions of their whackos. Unless they’re Methodists.
10. If I should ever, God forbid, perish in a terrorist incident, and you or some nutty group uses my death as your justification to attack or discriminate against anyone in my name, I will come back and haunt you worse than Linda Blair marrying Freddy Krueger and moving into your bedroom to spawn Chucky. John Lennon was right when he asked us to imagine a world with “nothing to kill or die for and no religion, too.” I heard Deepak Chopra this week say that “God gave humans the truth, and the devil came and he said, ‘Let’s give it a name and call it religion.’ ” But John Adams said it best when he wrote a sort of letter to the future (which he called “Posterity”): “Posterity! You will never know how much it cost the present Generation to preserve your Freedom! I hope you will make a good use of it. If you do not, I shall repent in Heaven that I ever took half the Pains to preserve it.” I’m guessing ol’ John Adams is up there repenting nonstop right now.
Friends, we all have a responsibility NOW to make sure that Muslim community center gets built. Once again, 70% of the country (the same number that initially supported the Iraq War) is on the wrong side and want the “mosque” moved. Enormous pressure has been put on the Imam to stop his project. We have to turn this thing around. Are we going to let the bullies and thugs win another one? Aren’t you fed up by now? When would be a good time to take our country back from the haters?
I say right now. Let’s each of us make a statement by donating to the building of this community center! It’s a nonprofit, tax-exempt organization and you can donate a dollar or ten dollars (or more) right now through a secure pay pal account by clicking here. I will personally match the first $10,000 raised (forward your PayPal receipt to .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)). If each one of you reading this blog/email donated just a couple of dollars, that would give the center over $6 million, more than what Donald Trump has offered to buy the Imam out. C’mon everyone, let’s pitch in and help those who are being debased for simply wanting to do something good. We could all make a huge statement of love on this solemn day.
I lost a co-worker on 9/11. I write this today in his memory.”
“The man who speaks of the enemy / Is the enemy himself.”
                                                —Bertolt Brecht

elisalouisa,

It is so wonderful to hear from you,elisa. Thanks for your kind words.

A real lady will always remain a lady,even in the middle of the most unpleasent and hostile circumstances.

Please,elisa,accept my sincerest apology for neglecting my own website on which I have promised you and promised others to provide you with a short course about Islam,as I inderstood it. As you see I am unintentionally involved in attempt after attempt on this thread and on other threads,trying to expose some lies,bigotry and hatred showing their ugly heads as liberals while in reality the ugly heads belong to the FAR FAR FAR RIGHT. My sense of smell/detection is stll strong,inspite of my advanced age. Perhaps,it is stronger than the sense of smell of Rofus,an old dog who lives with my daughter,Anna and her husband,Chris in the Northern East coast of good ol’  U.S.A.

I can assure you,elisa,the promise I have made will be fulfilled,regardless how long it takes.

This is a promise,elisa,you can record it in your notebook to make sure you hold me to it.

Again,elisa: Many thanks and good to hear from you,indeed.

By Sodium-Na, September 11 at 5:26 pm
maani and Synbad.
Please ignore this super duper IDIOTIC TROLL. He does not deserve a single response from you. Please do not honor him with one,any more. Thank you.
His hatred,bigotry,loudness,rudeness,repulsiveness empty rhetoric against all religions and above all his UNREAL arrogance are indicative of a RETARDED MIND.
Just ignore him and ignore his posts. Please do not waste your time on his garbage. Thank you.
Let him enjoy his DIARRHEA of the mouth from now on till eternity. He is not fooling anyone with a healthy mind. He is fooling only himself.
——-
What a pleasure to see your post Sodium-Na, with as usual, words of wisdom, so much so that they bear repeating.

The following piece is intended as a refutation of the evil, ignorant ones who insist on equating suicide bombing with Islam, and I acknowledge here my indebtedness to Robert Pape, a political scientist who studied suicide terrorism from 1980 to 2001.

“Religion is not the force behind suicide terrorism,” he says, “The data show that there is little connection between suicide terrorism and Islamic fundamentalism, or any religion for that matter.” He adds that the group responsible for the highest percentage (40 percent) of all suicide attacks has been the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka, who are adamantly opposed to religion. Rather, he suggests, nearly all suicide terrorist campaigns are “coherent political or military campaigns whose common objective is a specific and strategic goal, namely to compel more deadly military forces to withdraw from their homeland.” “Religion is rarely the root cause,” he maintains. Although it is used as a tool in recruiting and can be employed to serve the broader strategic objective.

“From Lebanon to Israel to Sri Lanka to Kashmir to Chechnya the objective was to establish or maintain self-determination. Suicide bombing in the name of Islam is therefore a sociopolitical phenomenon, not a theological one.”

Sodium-Na, September 11 at 5:26 pm
maani and Sinbad.

Please ignore this super duper IDIOTIC TROLL. He does not deserve a single response from you. Please do not honor him with one,any more. Thank you.
========================================
Thank you Sodium-Na for your wise advice which I will heed with pleasure!

Ray Bradbury got it write in 1953 when he wrote “it’s all about Farenheit 451.”
Fifty-seven years later and the collective US of We still don’t get it.

Peace and Love while Going Forth to Prosper.

Sabagio Mauraeno on a rainy afternoon in Decatur, GA, so no fires to put out.

maani and Synbad.

Please ignore this super duper IDIOTIC TROLL. He does not deserve a single response from you. Please do not honor him with one,any more. Thank you.

His hatred,bigotry,loudness,rudeness,repulsiveness empty rhetoric against all religions and above all his UNREAL arrogance are indicative of a RETARDED MIND. Just ignore him and ignore his posts. Please do not waste your time on his garbage. Thank you.

Let him enjoy his DIARRHEA of the mouth from now on till eternity. He is not fooling anyone with a healthy mind. He is fooling only himself.

THE STUPID

Trying to compare the intended quran burning by a very small group of Crister fundamentalists to the organized, state approved, and nation-wide literary and cultural purging by the German students association in 1930s Nazi Germany is the height of absurdity and needless fear-mongering by those who cower and run up the white flag of surrender at the slightest hint that the “Muslim world” might be offended by the criticisms of some in the once free world.

The säuberung (cleansing/purging) was a nation-wide campaign to keep Germany pure and free of non-German influence. The initial campaign lasted several days and over 25,000 books were destroyed.

The quran burning was to be a respondent by fundamentalist Cristers pushing back against what they feel is Muslim indifference to the “sensitivities” of those opposed to a Social Center/Mosque located so close to what is called Ground Zero—the site of the worse attack on American soil by an enemy, all of whom, ironically, were Islamists.

The quran burning is no more than an expression of free speech—no different than burning a flag or hanging a politician in effigy—and is limited to a single book of mythology which, like the Bible, Torah, and any other number of so-called holy books, there are several million other copies around the world and which, because of today’s technology, can be easily reproduced. In other words; there’s no way in hell that 50 Cristers can destroy the quran or erase the book from existence. To compare a symbolic act by a few tens of Crister fundamentalists to a nation-wide campaign of literary and cultural purging indicates that those attempting to do so suffer a really bad case of the Stupid as well as a warped sense of proportion.

RELIGION POISONS EVERY THING.

By Arabian Sinbad, September 10 at 11:45 pm

” Your ugly soul and body must be twisting with pain now that you see your bigoted hero, bastard Terry Johns, defeated and frustrated in his evil plan by the enlightened world opinion.
Keep spewing your venomous hate till you hopefully are consumed by it and drop dead! The world would be a little more peaceful without sick bigots like you! ”

I hate to bust your bubble but there is absolutely no evidence to support the fantasy that we have souls. You’ll have to do better than that.

Actually you’re the one spewing hate and I’ve good news for you! I am very soon going to drop dead but it won’t be due to exposing the hypocrisy of Islamists who claim that Islam is a religion of peace while blowing up pizza parlors and flying planes into buildings. The reason is incurable disease.

I’m only defending the rights of 50 crazy Cristers to burn a few books in protest to Islamist indifference to their “sensitivities.”

The world would be more peaceful if Islamists didn’t strap bombs to deluded, retarded and drugged individuals in order to kill Jews and get to heaven and bang 72 virgins. (Virginity is really overrated!) The world would be more peaceful if Islamic husbands weren’t allowed to lop off the ear lobes and noses of their wives in order to get a newer, younger model. The world would be a helluva lot more peaceful is Islamists could learn to stop slaughtering each other and anyone else they take a disliking to.

If one pays attention one can’t help but notice that it isn’t Western women running to the Islamic world to have their faces reconstructed. It’s the reverse!

What makes you and those of your ilk think that Islam is above criticism? When Haggard goes cruising for a dude to fulfill his sexual and drug appetites the whole of the U.S. criticized him and Christianity. When the Pope’s boys go looking for little children to abuse the whole world decries those actions and demands justice. When Jews go ballistic on Muslims, the world decries those acts. So why isn’t it permitted to criticize a religion and its adherents who have been perpetrating acts of terror on the civilized world since at least the early 1970s?

Allow me to ask you something Sinabaddie… is wishing someone dead an example of Islam being a religion of peace? What exactly constitutes hate in the quran? Bwaaaaaa!

By Maani, September 11 at 1:04 am

”What you don’t understand about the Bible could fill an aircraft carrier.  And your continued taking of Scripture out of context would be laughable if it were not so sad.”

That you don’t agree maani is no surprise and to be expected. That’s why there are 25-37 thousand Crister sects and denominations in the world. They can’t agree on much.

Remember maani, you refuse to own up to exactly what brand of Crister religion you belong to, so I’m in the dark to exactly what dogma it is that I’m dealing with. Personally I’ve always thought that you are a Muslim posing as a Crister or a New Ager with a mixed salad pagan religion that covers all the bases he thinks needs covering.

I know how Jesus is thought of in Islam… I also know how Jesus is believed in the Crister religions also. And the two are not compatible! There are serious fundamental differences. And to the Crister those fundamental differences are at the foundation of the Islam is a religion of the anti-Christ controversy.

I purposely used that verse because I expected that response from you. It’s you maani who is taking the verse out of context and propagating a lie. That verse is to be taken along with others that set the whole theme that anyone who denies Jesus as Messiah is a liar and an anti-Christ. (And we know who John was talking about, don’t we maani? Those Jews that rejected Christ! Islam hadn’t been invented yet.) And maani… please… I know that newer versions have added “the” because they needed it to cover their asses on that “the antichrist” thingy that never existed.

”Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.” 1John 2:22

Your very own words in your post condemn all Muslims and you too if you hold to the belief that Jeebus is second to Mohamed. To Cristers, Jesus is the second person in the Crister ménage à trois godhead. He is second to no one! I’m surprised that a “pastor” of the Crister faith would not know that or not state that rather glaring difference between Islam and Christianity. I hope you’re not going to try and fill us full of your shit by telling us the Islamists accept the concept of the trinity? 

Denying the trinity means that one denies the 3rd person of the trinity thus one is guilty of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit; of course, like anything else in the Bible, it can be interpreted to suit the needs of the interpreter.

Besides… as an anti-Christ it isn’t me that you have to convince maani. It’s your brothers in the Lawd Jeebus like pastor Bob Old:

“To the Muslim church I would say the reason I am doing on Saturday because I believe they worship a false god. They have a false text, a false prophet and a false scripture,”

And who justifies his position with the following:

“How can it be an act of hate when what I am doing is trying to save their souls?”
http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story.asp?S=13129871

Oh… maani… we don’t want to forget your other brothers in the Lawd at Wesboro Baptist Church who made the following statement:

“WBC burned the Koran once – and if you sissy brats of Doomed America bully Terry Jones and the Dove World Outreach Center until they change their plans to burn that blasphemous tripe called the Koran, then WBC will burn it (again), to clearly show you some things,”

http://www.ocala.com/article/20100909/ARTICLES/100909743/1412?Title=Westboro-Baptish-Church-to-burn-Qurans-if-Dove-doesn-t

And we know all about the verses on “love your enemy” maani. All religions claim to be religions of peace and love maani. And we’ve centuries of internecine violence to prove just how much you believe all that crap.

In addition to the list of Islamic countries which Maani provided in his post of September 11 at 10:24 am,the following is a supplement list to his:

Jordan: I was stationed in its capital,Amman,for more than 20 years. During that period I attended at least 10 Christian church wedding and roughly equal numbers of Christian churches funerals. Every government that has formed in Jordan,sofar,has two ministers whose religion is Christianity. In fact,I knew well,Dr. Kamel Abu-Jaber,former Minister of Foreign Affairs,who was a member of the Greek Orthodox church in Amman.Moreover,the Jordanian Parialment has several elected Christians belonging to either the Catholic or the Greek Orthodox church,altough several protestant churches also exist in Jordan but their percentage in the whole population is small.

The following should be added to Maani’s list since they do have Christians churches within their religious structures. I have travelled to the following Islamic countries and they do have Christian churches:

Kuwait.
Bahrain.
United Arab Emirate.
Sultanate of Oman.
Yemen.

Although Lebanon is an Arab country but it has a Christian majority. That is why every elected President of Lebanon has been a Maronite Christian,although other denominations of Christianity exist in Lebanon,but not as many as the Maronite Christians. The Maronite Christianity is closet to the Cathilic church.

Sodium-Na:

Thank you for your kind words.  Actually, while it is true that I try to maintain a peaceable and polite attitude, I believe I too often respond if not uncharitably, then at least not in keeping with Christian patience and humility.  But I am working on it.  LOL.

Peace.

Maani,

Please accept the following words from an old agnostic man,that is me:

You are too polite in using the word “incorrect” because anyone who claims that,and I quote,“Christians are not safe in any Muslim state.”,deserve to be bluntly called “IGNORANT”.Period.

I know,I know that you are a Christian Minister and Christianity dictates on you to be what you are: polite,courteous,helpful,forgiving and above all fair.

Call Me Roy:

“Christians are not safe in any Muslim state.”

This is simply and demonstrably incorrect:

Indonesia: Freedom of religion written into Constitution.  Has mosques, churches, synagogues, etc.

Pakistan: Recognizes Hinduism, Christianity, Sikh. Also has practicing Buddhists, Jews and others.  Has mosques, churches, temples

Bangladesh: Recognizes Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity.  Gov’t recently issued order prohibiting punishment under Shariah law

Nigeria: Gov’t officially recognizes all religions.  Has mosques, churches, synagogues, etc.

Egypt: Though all laws must comport with Islam, gov’t officially recognizes Christianity, and recently made Christmas an official holiday

Turkey: Freedom of religion written into Constitution.  Officially recognizes all practicing religions represented in population.

Iran: Officially recognizes Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, all of whom have seats in Parliament.  [Iran ironically has the largest Jewish population in the Middle East (other than Israel), and treats them remarkably well.]

Sudan: Gov’t officially recognizes all religions.

Algeria: Country is over 99% Muslim, with small Christian population that is officially recognized.

Afghanistan: Country is over 99% Muslim, with small Hindu and Sikh populations that are officially recognized.

Iraq: Even under Saddam, though they were not officially recognized, Christians and other minority religions were permitted to practice freely.

Saudi Arabia: Gov’t does not permit the practice of any religion but Islam.

Syria: Gov’t recognizes Christianity, Judaism.  [N.B. Not including Israel, second largest Jewish population in Middle East.]

Thus, except for Saudi Arabia, and the two or three countries that are 99% Muslim, all of the countries with majority Muslim populations, run by majority Muslim governments, are not only tolerant, but officially recognize some (or many) other religions.

I am not suggesting that no persecution exists within some of those countries.  But your basic point is obviously incorrect.

Peace.

Maani and Sabagio,

The depths of your thoughts are not only excellent, but superbly OUTSTANDING,indeed.

Thank you.

Your profound thoughts are much appreciated by me,a non-Muslim,who had studied Islam,in its original language,for more than four years and understood the true essence and spirit of Islam. In fact,I chant some of its beautiful verses whenever I feel I need to take it easy and relax.

Again,thank you.

Why has no one in the press brought up the issue of muslims
burning Bibles:

Got a link for that, this is all I could find…

http://www.haaretz.com/news/orthodox-jewish-youths-burn-new-testaments-
in-or-yehuda-1.246153
Orthodox Jews set fire to hundreds of copies of the New Testament in the latest
act of violence against Christian missionaries in the Holy Land.

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2010/09/09/the-meaning-of-911/
One would think that after nine years at least some of the anger, the horror and
shock of the 9/11 terrorist attacks would have dissipated: but no. A glimpse at
the headlines, a few days before the somber anniversary, disabuses us of this
hopeful notion: a crazed pastor out in the boonies somewhere is burning
Korans, and the commander of our forces in Afghanistan feels compelled to
respond, as does the President. The proposal to build a Muslim community
center blocks from “ground zero” – modeled on Jewish community centers
ubiquitous in New York – is met with furious opposition, and the “anti-
Islamization” movement spearheaded by bigots takes off, with mosques all over
the country under attack. Physical attacks on Muslims, or people perceived as
Muslim, escalate: a New York City cabbie is assaulted by a crazed Islamophobe,
and people who have lived in this country for the whole of their lives are afraid.

What’s going on? Andrew Sullivan, writing on his popular blog, writes he is “at a
loss to understand why so many have reacted so ferociously to this project.”
After all, Imam Feisel Rauf, the Muslim cleric who wants to build Cordoba
House, is a moderate who has condemned Islamic extremism: Rauf was sent by
the Bush administration overseas to act as an ambassador of good will to
Muslim countries. So where is the ferocity coming from?

To find the answer to this question, we just have to follow the money, and
thankfully Ken Vogel and Giovanni Russonello over at Politico have done just
that. After detailing the money coming into the Cordoba House project from
mainstream donors like the Rockefellers, they write:

“There’s also big money behind the mosque opposition, as highlighted by the
relationship between [David] Horowitz’s Los Angeles-based nonprofit, Jihad
Watch – the website run by Spencer “dedicated to bringing public attention to
the role that jihad theology and ideology play in the modern world” – and Joyce
Chernick, the wife of a wealthy California tech company founder.

“Though it was not listed on the public tax reports filed by Horowitz’s Freedom
Center, Politico has confirmed that the lion’s share of the $920,000 it provided
over the past three years to Jihad Watch came from Chernick, whose husband,
Aubrey Chernick, has a net worth of $750 million, as a result of his 2004 sale to
IBM of a software company he created, and a security consulting firm he now
owns.

“A onetime trustee of the …Washington Institute for Near East Policy, Aubrey
Chernick led the effort to pull together $3.5 million in venture capital to start
Pajamas Media, a conservative blog network …

“The David Horowitz Freedom Center had a budget of $4.5 million last year,
according to its tax filings, of which $290,000 came from the conservative
Bradley Foundation, which also gave $75,000 to the Center for Security Policy
last year. Horowitz has received an average of $461,000 a year in salary and
benefits over the past three years, while Spencer has pulled in an average of
$140,000, according to the center’s IRS filings.”

Laura Rozen follows up on her Politico blog, detailing the trail of donations
from 2008 990 filings for Chernick’s charitable foundation, the Fairbrook
Foundation, listing all the familiar suspects – CAMERA, Horowitz, MEMRI, Frank
Gaffney’s Center for Security Policy, the Israeli nationalist “Stand With Us”
campus project – and a few less familiar, such as the American Friends of Ateret
Cohanim, dedicated to thwarting our stated policy of no more settlements
where it counts: in East Jerusalem.

Millions pour into the coffers of these groups, all of which are dedicated to one
overriding principle, one goal: advancing Israel’s national interests in the US.
The

Islam The Eternal Flame of Muslim Outrage

Shhhhhhh, we’re told. Don’t protest the Ground Zero mosque. Don’t burn a Koran. It’ll imperil the troops. It’ll inflame tensions. The “Muslim world” will “explode” if it does not get its way, warns sharia-peddling imam Feisal Abdul Rauf. Pardon my national security-threatening impudence, but when is the “Muslim world” not ready to “explode”?
At the risk of provoking the ever-volatile Religion of Perpetual Outrage, let us count the little-noticed and forgotten ways.
Just a few months ago in Kashmir, faithful Muslims rioted over what they thought was a mosque depicted on underwear sold by street vendors. The mob shut down businesses and clashed with police over the blasphemous skivvies. But it turned out there was no need for Allah’s avengers to get their holy knickers in a bunch. The alleged mosque was actually a building resembling London’s St. Paul’s Cathedral. A Kashmiri law enforcement official later concluded the protests were “premeditated and organized to vitiate the atmosphere.”
Indeed, art and graphics have an uncanny way of vitiating the Muslim world’s atmosphere. In 1994, Muslims threatened German supermodel Claudia Schiffer with death after she wore a Karl Lagerfeld-designed dress printed with a saying from the Koran. In 1997, outraged Muslims forced Nike to recall 800,000 shoes because they claimed the company’s “Air” logo looked like the Arabic script for “Allah.” In 1998, another conflagration spread over Unilever’s ice cream logo—which Muslims claimed looked like “Allah” if read upside-down and backward (can’t recall what they said it resembled if you viewed it with 3D glasses).

Even more explosively, in 2002, an al-Qaida-linked jihadist cell plotted to blow up Bologna, Italy’s Church of San Petronio because it displayed a 15th century fresco depicting Mohammed being tormented in the ninth circle of Hell. For years, Muslims had demanded that the art come down. Counterterrorism officials in Europe caught the would-be bombers on tape scouting out the church and exclaiming, “May Allah bring it all down. It will all come down.”
That same year, Nigerian Muslims stabbed, bludgeoned or burned to death 200 people in protest of the Miss World beauty pageant—which they considered an affront to Allah. Contest organizers fled out of fear of inflaming further destruction. When Nigerian journalist Isioma Daniel joked that Mohammed would have approved of the pageant and that “in all honesty, he would probably have chosen a wife from among them,” her newspaper rushed to print three retractions and apologies in a row. It didn’t stop Muslim vigilantes from torching the newspaper’s offices. A fatwa was issued on Daniel’s life by a Nigerian official in the sharia-ruled state of Zamfara, who declared that “the blood of Isioma Daniel can be shed. It is abiding on all Muslims wherever they are to consider the killing of the writer as a religious duty.” Daniel fled to Norway.
(Continued)

Islam The Eternal Flame of Muslim Outrage (Continued)

In 2005, British Muslims got all hot and bothered over a Burger King ice cream cone container whose swirly-texted label resembled, you guessed it, the Arabic script for “Allah.” The restaurant chain yanked the product in a panic and prostrated itself before the Muslim world. But the fast-food dessert had already become a handy radical Islamic recruiting tool. Rashad Akhtar, a young British Muslim, told Harper’s Magazine how the ice cream caper had inspired him: “Even though it means nothing to some people and may mean nothing to some Muslims in this country, this is my jihad. I’m not going to rest until I find the person who is responsible. I’m going to bring this country down.”
In 2007, Muslims combusted again in Sudan after an infidel elementary school teacher innocently named a classroom teddy bear “Mohammed.” Protesters chanted, “Kill her, kill her by firing squad!” and “No tolerance—execution!” She was arrested, jailed and faced 40 lashes for blasphemy before being freed after eight days. Not wanting to cause further inflammation, the teacher rushed to apologize: “I have great respect for the Islamic religion and would not knowingly offend anyone, and I am sorry if I caused any distress.”
And who could forget the global Danish cartoon riots of 2006 (instigated by imams who toured Egypt stoking hysteria with faked anti-Islam comic strips)? From Afghanistan to Egypt to Lebanon to Libya, Pakistan, Turkey and in between, hundreds died under the pretext of protecting Mohammed from Western slight, and brave journalists who stood up to the madness were threatened with beheading. It wasn’t really about the cartoons at all, of course. Little-remembered is the fact that Muslim bullies were attempting to pressure Denmark over the International Atomic Energy Agency’s decision to report Iran to the UN Security Council for continuing with its nuclear research program. The chairmanship of the council was passing to Denmark at the time. Yes, it was just another in a long line of manufactured Muslim explosions that were, to borrow a useful phrase, “premeditated and organized to vitiate the atmosphere.”
When everything from sneakers to stuffed animals to comics to frescos to beauty queens to fast-food packaging to undies serves as dry tinder for Allah’s avengers, it’s a grand farce to feign concern about the recruitment effect of a few burnt Korans in the hands of a two-bit attention-seeker in Florida. The eternal flame of Muslim outrage was lit a long, long time ago.

In “The Islamic Antichrist,” Joel Richardson breaks new ground with this devastating account of the possible connection between the Biblical Antichrist and the Islamic Mahdi. The Bible predicts that in the last days a charismatic leader will establish a global following in the name of peace. The Quran also predicts that a man will rise up to lead the nations, pledging to usher in an era of peace. The man in the Quran is called the Mahdi, or Islam’s savior. However, the man in the Bible is the Antichrist. Could it be possible that they are one and the same person?
Richardson’s stunning research and analysis suggest that it is.

First every american needs to understand that this fundamentalist, extremist Reverend has the right to do whatever he wants under the Constitution as long as he stays within the law - including local code enforcement regarding open fires. He can say what he wants, and pi*s off anyone he pleases. It is perfectly legal to burn both the flag and the Quran and it’s also totally distasteful to do both. When it comes to deliberately and knowingly endangering others - our troops, the residents of Gainesville, the members of his Church, innocent citizens and anyone else who might be at risk because of his actions, his rights end. Equate it to the legally settled statement - “You don’t have a right to yell ‘Fire’ in a crowded theater - unless there is one.” As a Christian, I will definitely pray for this poor creature because he apparently killed too many brain cells at some time in his life or he likes attention. I guess that the Rev. is an extremist whose predominant interest is: getting attention for himself. Attention, this word brings up an more important matter. 
Why has no one in the press brought up the issue of muslims burning Bibles: They kill Christians and burn churches. Christians are not safe in any Muslim state, or even in a traditionally Christian country such as Ethiopia. This happens every day, but seldom makes the news. Ironically, General Petreus never said a word a popular priest was killed in Iraq. Neither Jews nor Christians have a place in a Muslim world that exists in a constant stage of rage, and they have been in this mood for almost a century, since the Turks slaughtered the Christian Armenians. For example, “Father Manuel Musallem, head of Gaza’s Latin church, told the AP that Muslims have ransacked, burned and looted a school and convent that are part of the Gaza Strip’s small Romany Catholic community. He told the AP that crosses were broken, damage was done to a statue of Jesus, and at the Rosary Sister School and nearby convent, prayer books were burned.” Is the Muslim faith so insecure that people need to commit jihad everytime the Quran is defiled or the Prophet Mohammed insulted? How did the Buddhists react when the Muslim Taliban destroyed the Bamiyan Buddha statues which were irreplaceable works of ancient art and were world heritage, and not copies that could be easily reprinted? Anyone afraid of Buddhists killing non-Buddhists over it? Any Muslims feared for their lives from Buddhists? No. Why is this not being discussed? The fact is Islam, all of Islam, is at war with western culture or any culture it disagrees with. Islam is a political movement cloaked in religion. That is how it skirts our laws and Constitution. Remember, though, you will not hear anything about this watching Pravda America (I mean, MSNBC). Remember, (to quote Ann Coulter) Liberals couldn’t care less about the First Amendment. To the contrary, censoring speech and religion is the left’s specialty! (Any religion other than Islam.)
They promote speech codes, hate crimes, free speech zones (known as “America” off college campuses), and go around the country yanking every reference to God from the public square via endless lawsuits by the ACLU. Whenever you see a liberal choking up over our precious constitutional rights, you can be sure we’re talking about the rights of Muslims at ground zero, “God Hates Fags” funeral protesters, strippers, The New York Times publishing classified documents, pornographers, child molesters, murderers, traitors, saboteurs, terrorists, flag-burners (but not Quran-burners!) or women living on National Endowment of the Arts grants by stuffing yams into their orifices on stage.
Isn’t Ann great.

By Maani, September 11 at 1:39 am Link to this comment

Sabagio:

Bravo.  Couldn’t agree more.
===============================
By Sabagio, September 11 at 1:30 am
===================================
Thank you Maani and Sabagio for your enlightened posts! I felt so intellectually and spiritually elated by your words of reason and commonsense, to the point that I felt spiritually healed from the hurt that Terry Johns and his few cheerleaders, such as nemisses2010, has caused to me.

To nemesis2010:

After I wrote my latest response to you, I read the following passage and Prophet Muhammad’s commentary on it. Though I have possibly read this verse hundreds of times before, it felt as if I am reading it for the first time. So I felt some remorse about the harsh words I uttered against you because the Qur’an teaches against what I did. Therefore, my gift of apology to you comes from the sublime teachings of the Qur’an, so per chance you might see the light!
====================
From the Qur’an:
“Follow that which is revealed to you from your Lord-there is no god but He; and turn away from the polytheists, leaving them alone. Had God so willed, they would not have set up other gods to be worshiped besides Him. We haven’t appointed you, O Prophet, over them as a protector, nor are you their guardian (i.e. responsible for their disbelief in God). Do not curse the gods they call upon in worship lest they in turn curse God in enmity to you out of their ignorance! Thus have We made every people think their actions are the most beautiful in their own eyes! But eventually all men will return to God (universal resurrection) who will inform them (and consequently judge them) on the basis of what they really did.” (Qur’an, 6:107-109)

[Commentary: These verses indicate that the author of the Qur’an (i.e. God) does not allow aggression against others just because of their beliefs. In these particularly instructive verses, the Qur’an goes further to even forbid verbal aggression against those who reject God, thus instructing Muslims to be pluralists and tolerant to others’ belief systems, even when they are erroneous.]

[In a highly instructive teaching of Prophet Muhammad, reinforcing the above teachings of the Qur’an, he said to his companions: “One of the most heinous acts is for a person to curse his parents,” to which someone asked, “O Messenger of God, how could a person stoop so low as to curse his parents?” The Prophet replied: “When he curses the father of another person, and in retort the other person curses his own father and mother.”]

Sabagio:

Bravo.  Couldn’t agree more.  I want to add the following, which are the lyrics to “Books are Burning” by XTC.  The line, “And you know where they burn books, people are next,” comes from a quote by Heinrich Heine, “Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings.”

Peace.

—-

Books are burning
In the main square
And I saw there
The first eating the text

Books are burning
In the still air
And you know where
They burn books, people are next

I believe the printed word should be forgiven
Doesn’t matter what it said
Wisdom hotline from the dead back to the living
Key to the larder for your heart and head

Books are burning
In our own town
Watch us turn ‘round
And cast our glances elsewhere

Books are burning
In the playground
Smell of burnt book
Is not unlike human hair

I believe the printed word is more than sacred
Beyond the gauge of good or bad
The human right to let your soul fly free and naked
Above the violence of the fearful and sad

The church of matches
Anoints in ignorance with gasoline
The church of matches
Grows fat by breathing in the smoke of dreams
It’s quite obscene

Books are burning
More each day now
And I pray now
You boys will tire of these games

Books are burning
I hope somehow
This will allow
A phoenix up from the flames

Ah, me….I don’t know exactly what Jesus or Paul wrote about treating others as I’d like them to treat me.  Some message implied or not must be in the Gospels somewhere or the idea about religious tolerance and tolerance of those who are different or think different wouldn’t be so ingrained in our national psyche and our view of the rule law that’s about protecting the rights of individuals, first and foremost . (except when the Supreme Court decides that corporations through their employees can buy democratic elections with impunity and take people’s homes and other property using “eminent domain” that used to be reserved for the public.)

So when the Preacher Terry Jones from somewhere in Florida gets all this attention from local, state and national media and the BBC , he MUST be speaking morally for the majority , and he MUST be doing something that all of us should consider doing.  Is the burning of the Quran the First Sign that the end of the world was going to happen and very soon in a biblical firestorm, that The Rapture was coming, and if you are not a True Believer then… lots a luck.  And why why why….. 


Why stop with the Quran?  Once they’re all burned up lets go on to:


1. The works of traitors, emigrants and authors from foreign countries who believe they can attack and denigrate US
2. The literature of Marxism, Communism , Socialists, Union organizers, ... Jefferson, Lincoln, MLK jr and George Santayana who wrote “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it,” .
3. Pacifist literature like the New Testament, The Rights of Man, Buddha’s teachings, Gandhi, Nelson Mandela,
4. Literature with liberal, democratic tendencies and attitudes, and writing like Time, The Wall Street Journal, Bill Buckley and the other Bill…O’Reilly
5. All historical writings whose purpose is to denigrate the origin, the spirit and the culture that denies the force and importance of leading historical figures in favor of egalitarianism and the masses, and which seeks to drag them through the mud. Joe McCarthy, Richard Nixon, Herbert Hoover, Aaron Burr, George Wallace,
6. Writings of a philosophical and social nature whose content deals with the false scientific enlightenment like the Hubble Universe photos, Darwin, and the human genome being The Language of God (Francis Collins, co-discoverer of the human genetic code)
7. Books that advocate “art” which is decadent, bloodless, or purely constructivist
8. Writings on sexuality and sexual education which serve the egocentric pleasure of the individual and thus, completely destroy the principles of
9. The decadent, destructive and damaging writings of literati in New York City and ...
10. Literature by Jewish authors, Muslim authors, Mormon authors, all Catholic authors(except Charismatic and Mel Gibson) and all Christian authors (except those who deem themselves fundamentalist and Pentacosticals) and of course atheist and agnostic authors, regardless of the field.
11. Popular entertainment literature that depicts life and life’s goals in a superficial, unrealistic and sickly sweet manner, like People Magazine and Sports Illustrated.

12. All popular music starting with Camptown Races to the present.

Ah, so much to do and the list just keeps getting longer and longer and longer…. doesn’t this all sound familiar, like déjà vu all over again??????

Sabagia Mauraeno

Just remember if you can,

Nemesis:

“Why aren’t you here defending your brother in the Lawd’s position? He’s right and you know it. According to your New Testament Islam is of antichrist as are all non-believers and believers in different religious myth that do not accept Jesus as the lord… unless of course you want to call John a liar? ‘By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.’ 1John 4:2&3.”

What you don’t understand about the Bible could fill an aircraft carrier.  And your continued taking of Scripture out of context would be laughable if it were not so sad.

Read the Scriptural passage again.  What does it say?  It says, “Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God…”

Got that?  “...come in the flesh…”  In point of fact, every Muslim believes that Jesus came in the flesh because, in Islam, Jesus is second only to Muhammed himself as a prophet. [N.B.  Are you aware that the inscription around the dome inside the Al Aksa Mosque (the “Dome of the Rock”) - in arabic - is a reminder to Muslims to honor Jesus and Mary?]

The passage does NOT say, “Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is the only trueborn son of God is of God…”  Thus, Islam is not “of the antichrist” with respect to 1 John 4.

You REALLY need to actually READ what you read, and not just throw passages around like you know what you are talking about.

And if you are going to cite Scripture, let me refresh your memory as to a far more important passage, from Jesus Himself:

“Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; that ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”

Jesus’ words here are as clear and direct as it is possible to be.  There is no room for “interpretation”: His words are in all respects a “commandment,” not a suggestion.  And He offered no exceptions to it.

As for defending Rev. Jones’ position, I have, if not here than elsewhere, made it clear that, as un-Christian and unhelpful (and probably harmful) as his planned action might be, he does have every right under the First Amendment to burn the books, and that it is hypocritical for those of us who support the planned NYC Islamic center to argue for it on First Amendment grounds, and then turn around and deny Rev. Jones HIS First Amendment protected rights to undertake his planned action.

There.  Are you happy now?

Peace.

2.

b>By Maani, September 10 at 3:41 pm</b>

”That others do not enjoy these freedoms is obviously sad.  However, if you are suggesting that we should somehow modify, curtail or otherwise limit our own freedoms based on what others do elsewhere, you are out of line.”

No maani, I’m here pointing an accusing finger at all those cowered in fear American hypocrites who love to spew their vile and talk high-mindedly of rights and blah blah blah yet the first time their principles require that they take a stand they run up the white flag of surrender to appease the Islamist enemy.

That the President of the U.S. and the Secretary of State can actually take the time to call out the actions of 50 Crister loons because of their fears of Islamic sensitivities when this nation is suffering through historic economic crisis, home foreclosures and 2 conflicts in Islamic nations is beyond the pale.

Even the Pope spoke out on this matter! The Pope! The Vicar of Christ, whose position on birth control and the use of condoms is causing unspeakable suffering and starvation of millions of Africans, can take the time to address this issue. One would think that given the Church’s obsession with little boys and love of child abuse that jeebus would order him to STFU! The Vatican is anything but a source of light, reason and moral rectitude.

Why aren’t you here defending your brother in the Lawd’s position? He’s right and you know it. According to your New Testament Islam is of antichrist as are all non-believers and believers in different religious myth that do not accept Jesus as the lord… unless of course you want to call John a liar?

”By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.” 1John 4:2&3.

It’s like I told you months ago maani… you religious loons won’t be happy until the whole earth is aflame and blood flows as high as the horses’ bridles!

Here you go maani… the crazies reacting to an act that hasn’t even taken place!

Thousands protest Koran burning plan in Afghan north
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6891AM20100910

Notice the smoke in the background… I wonder what’s burning? Pic #1 (below) reveals the mystery… what can we do about my being offended at what they’re burning maani?

As a former Marine maani I’m deeply offended… what are the odds the president, the Secretary of State, the Vatican and other world leaders will decry what they’re doing on behalf of all veterans in this country? This whole issue is nothing less than the continued undermining of Western values by a concerted Islamist 5th column attack.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/10/afghanistan-quran-burning_n_711943.html#s137309

1.

b>By Maani, September 10 at 3:41 pm</b>

”First, you assume that, just because Sinbad commented on “some sad Americans” and not Muslims in other countries, he does not also condemn that behavior as well.  Try to start out by NOT presuming via sarcasm and confrontation, but by simply asking.”

No maani you’re the one assuming that I assumed and cannot see that I did ask. I asked because I didn’t want to assume. Have you noticed that instead of answering plainly he wrote several paragraphs of song and dance?

I’m surprised at you maani… he has just labeled your loony brother in Christ a bastard and you come here defending him rather than your brother. Why don’t you ask him what evidence he has that your brother in the Lawd Jeebus’ mother had him out of wedlock?

By Maani, September 10 at 3:41 pm

”Second, there is a difference: we live in America, where we (thankfully) enjoy many freedoms that others don’t, one of which is freedom of speech, another being freedom of religion.”

That’s precisely the point that I’ve been making maani! Thanks for seeing the light! And speaking of rights… your 50 brothers in the Lawd have as much right as anyone else to freedom of speech. Their burning those dumb books is no different than someone burning a flag or hanging an effigy of a crooked politician.

It’s American fear and cowardice that is making this an issue! If the American people would stand united—on those principles of freedom that they so love to talk about—and tell all the whiners to piss off this wouldn’t even be an issue.

Sure the man is a total attention seeking moron. And sure it is insane and idiotic
to burn any books, especially those held dear by a religion. Sure the MSM are also
total morons as usual for giving him any coverage at all.
What also troubles me though is why one would threaten and actually kill others
for this. are even a milliion burned holy books worth one human life. I welcome
other posters opinions on this subject.

As we are talking about a hot current affair issue which dominated the news for about two weeks, Christian-Zionist propagandists, like the one who calls himself nemisis2010, insist on digging dubious sources from June 2007, reported by unknown writer, known Kimberly West, and published only in unknown dubious web-sites called Associatedcontent and Israel Today.

If what these dubious sources reported was a real important piece of news, it would have been reported worldwide in more reliable and known news outlets, and I would be one of the first people to learn about it and condemn it; that’s because Christians and good Jews in Palestine are my brothers and sisters in humanity and monotheism and I am bound by the dictates of my religion to defend their human rights, unless they are proven to be spies and trouble makers against their fellow citizens.

If not for any other reason, I would have done it for the sake of my late noble mother, who was a Spanish Catholic married to my late Muslim father and leading an exemplary marriage life. As a testimony to the noble teachings of Islam and its universal humanistic worldview, Muslims are allowed to marry from among the People of the Book (i.e. Christians and Jews) and the spouses can keep their original faith and don’t need to convert.

If we are to start digging history to divert attention away from contemporary problems, then a bigot propagandist like nemises2010 will find himself herself at loss, as I can overwhelm him with volumes of criminal history about the Spanish Christian Inquisition against both Muslims and Jews, the Crusaders against Muslims and Jews, the crimes of white European Americans against the natives of America, and in more recent history the crimes of Christian Nazis against the Jews and other minorities, and lately the crimes of white Christian-Zionist Americans against the people of Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan, to confine myself to the Middle East and not talk about other parts of the world.

Nemesis:

“If you’re going to defend Muslims bubba… you’re in for a world of hurt because we can paste links and articles that attest to their barbaric behavior until the cows come home.”

First, you assume that, just because Sinbad commented on “some sad Americans” and not Muslims in other countries, he does not also condemn that behavior as well.  Try to start out by NOT presuming via sarcasm and confrontation, but by simply asking.

Second, there is a difference: we live in America, where we (thankfully) enjoy many freedoms that others don’t, one of which is freedom of speech, another being freedom of religion.

That others do not enjoy these freedoms is obviously sad.  However, if you are suggesting that we should somehow modify, curtail or otherwise limit our own freedoms based on what others do elsewhere, you are out of line.

Peace.

By Arabian Sinbad, September 10 at 6:36 am

”This pastor (sorry! I mean bastard)Terry Johns represents what is worst with some sad Americans: bigotry, racism, hatred incitement and ignorance.”

Wow, those are strong words Sinbaddie! Strong indeed!

Since you are an apparent xspurt on bastards Sinbaddie would you be so kind as to verify whether or nor those responsible in the linked article are bastards too?

Christians in Gaza Fear for Their Lives as Muslims Burn Bibles and Destroy Crosses
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/285123/christians_in_gaza_fear_for_their_lives.html

If you’re going to defend Muslims bubba… you’re in for a world of hurt because we can paste links and articles that attest to their barbaric behavior until the cows come home.

I guess this is akin to yelling fire in a theatre.

Burning someones belief system is a sure way to getting yours burnt as well…..karma 101.

Here is a legal question for the lawyers out there. Is the burning a good
example for the use of the Brandenburg Test?

The Brandenburg test was the Court’s last major statement on what
government may do about inflammatory speech that seeks to incite others to
lawless action. It resolved the debate between those who urged greater
government control of speech for reasons of security and those who favored
allowing as much speech as possible and relying on the marketplace of ideas to
reach a favorable result, leaving the law in a state along the lines of that which
Justices Louis Brandeis, and, post-Schenck, Oliver Wendell Holmes advocated
in several dissents and concurrences during the late 1910s and early 1920s. As
of 2009, the Brandenburg test is still the standard used for evaluating attempts
to punish inflammatory speech, and it has not been seriously challenged since
it was laid down in 1969. Very few cases have actually reached the Court
during the past decades that would test the outer limits of Brandenburg, so the
test remains largely unqualified.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio

Why does Obama defend the mosque, the LOCATION (not the EXISTENCE) of which is deeply offensive to the vast majority of 9/11 victims’ families and an huge majority of Americans generally, yet condemn the pastor for wanting to exercise his free speech right to be a total asshole, bigot and hatemonger?

Once again, when you start prohibiting speech you don’t like, it’s all over.

This pastor (sorry! I mean bastard)Terry Johns represents what is worst with some sad Americans: bigotry, racism, hatred incitement and ignorance.

It always saddens me to see that those types of low-life and lost souls would capitalize on a sad solemn occasion, in which many lives, including some 300 Muslim-Americans lost their lives, to stir hatred and fear-mongering.

The saddest part of the 9/11 memory is that it has been terribly exploited by evil souls for political, economic, fame and show-off of false chauvinist patriotism. Worst yet, those types insist on treating 9/11 as if American history started and ended freezing on that day!

Our government, under evil Bush, admitting either failure in protecting America, or involvement in orchestrating that tragic event, has generously compensated the the families of the victims with large sums of money, to the point that I wish I was one of the victims so that my daughter and wife would have received what all my hard work over thirty years would not ever provide. That settlement should have been good enough to bring that sad event to closure for the families of the victims, instead of making its anniversaries an occasion for cheap and evil political theatrics by the worst among us!

Shame of you bastard Terry Johns for sadly reminding us that in plain twenty-first century in America there are those who want to revive the spirit of Nazism and Fascism!

This story is already outdated.  No such agreement was made - or even discussed - between Jones and Rauf, so the book-burning may still go forward.

End of story.