L2kf4c:

You’re strong response is exactly what I am talking about.  We discuss
pedophilia and you’re mind jumps to anal raping three year olds.  I’m just
saying the desires and realities of the situation may be a little more complex
and nuanced than we know.  I would hazard a guess that you have not read the
work in question and are ready to behead the author for committing “the single
most vile, contemptible act that one human can perpetrate upon another.”  In
the end, questions about where to draw the line will always arise in a
functioning society.  I am merely suggesting that the propaganda that you have
been given over the years might not be allowing you to think so clearly on this
issue.  And like RAE, I would suggest you don’t know much about human
sexuality if your “hetero male” example is the “typical menage a trois”.  And
besides, neither of us made anything close to that comparison.

RAE:

Your “quibble” is not minor; rather, it’s the lynch pin to this issue.  How does a
society find the balance between order and individual freedom?  These
questions are always tough because they matter a great deal.  Like you, I agree
that there should be a “no touch” boundary, no exceptions.  I like your grey
zone and I support a more nuanced understanding of human sexuality in its
development.  It is the knee jerk reaction of moral righteousness that seeks to
strip individuals of their personal freedoms, and for that, we must always be on
guard.

As for the governing body being wrong, well I’m afraid that’s generally the case. 
A slow moving, ill informed body of rule makers might just be the price we pay
for the style of democracy we supposedly cherish.

To L2k4FC…

Strong, perhaps even violent, visceral reactions as you have described tells me that you would be one of those parents who would instantly take a bad situation and make it worse by further traumatizing the child.

Research has PROVEN that children suffer more PERMANENT DAMAGE by witnessing domestic violence in the home, and a parent out of control is certainly a form of domestic violence.

There are many “levels” of molestation ranging from a casual fondle by a favorite uncle right through to rape and murder. They are NOT the same crime, in my opinion, and do NOT deserve the same sanction. Parents who make a mountain out of what was a molehill do far more damage than the “perp.”

I’m sorry you are “disturbed” by your interpretation of my viewpoints. To even insinuate I am supportive of pedophilia is not only an affront but means three things to me.
1. You read only what you wanted to read in my postings.
2. You have a limited understanding of the human sexualities.
3. You want to protect kids from sexual interference and you don’t care what chaos and damage you generate in the process.

If you put your kids under 24/7 surveillance from birth to adulthood, THEY WILL NOT DEVELOP THE SKILLS TO BECOME FUNCTIONING ADULTS. Inform them, warn them guide them - but you cannot raise them in a protective bubble and expect good results.

To thethirdman..

Thanks for the cogent response… you have a clear writing style… clear to me, at least.

I agree with almost everything you’ve stated. I have only a slight quibble. A “governing body” may have assumed the right to decide such things as age of consent but that doesn’t assure us that what they decide is correct.

I guess the point I’m stumbling all over the place to make is that just as each youngster reaches physical sexual maturity at a different age, he or she acquires sufficient emotional maturity to decide if and when to participate in sex at a different point in time. Of course, thrown into the cauldron of confusion is the “raging hormone” issue which most often plays havoc in its own wonderful way.

In an ideal world the legal system would devise a method to accurately assess an INDIVIDUAL’S “readiness” rather than just settle on an arbitrary one-age-fits-all criteria because it’s too difficult to do otherwise. I just wish those set in authority over us, who much of the time do NOT know what the hell they’re doing, would have the wisdom to perhaps fix age RANGES rather than hard and fast points. For example, absolutely NO sexual touching of anyone before puberty - no exceptions. Then, as some jurisdictions have done, define that from puberty to say 16 years, those of similar age may consent to mutual “play” without having the law go bananas. (Say a 15 year old and a 17 year old or some combination in those teen years.) It’s difficult, I know, but it’s also really unfair to set hard and fast rules that clearly do not apply to many at the edges of the Bell curve.

Parents and society feel strongly about protecting the children from abuse, and rightly so. But we must be really, really careful that we don’t cause or generate problems by being too rigid and narrow minded. That’s asking a lot of an American considering the level of ignorance and immaturity rampant in sexual matters in that society. Can you believe there are still school boards that won’t allow age-appropriate education in the human sexualities in their schools? These are the same arrogant jerks who are surprised to discover all sorts of unsafe sex play is happening with the predictable results - teenage pregnancies - STDs and so on.

Oh well, maybe next millenia.

RAE:

Thanks for the thoughtful response and sharing.  I obviously don’t want children
to be abused and I think it is well within the right of a governing body to set
agreed upon limits concerning the acceptable age at which a young boy or girl
does not have the capacity to make sexual decisions.  I only wished to point out
that pedophiles are made out to be crazy freaks in our culture when I’m sure they
have no more choice over their attractions than we do.  That doesn’t mean they
don’t have to follow the laws our society agrees upon.  But they’re such an easy
target for the media and righteous moral grandstanders.  I agree with you about
protecting EVERY citizen’s right and about the hypocrisy of the American public. 
Writing about or reading about pedophilia is not the same as committing
pedophilia.  I’m pretty sure pedophiles have First Amendment rights…

To thethirdman:

We don’t apply the same rules because we assume that adults are able to choose with whom they share sexual experiences and likewise we assume that those who are not yet adults are not able to choose. Both are unproven, untested assumptions and likely as not do not apply to any given individual.

As far as deviance is concerned, I agree with you. Most of us think there is some “norm” or “normal.” Most of us are wrong. I’ve never met anyone who practises his/her sexuality in the same way. So what’s “normal?” I submit that most of us consider what WE do is “normal”... and IT IS… FOR US. But it sure may not be normal for the next guy/gal. So NORMAL doesn’t exist except in our legal system.

It’s kinda like using “Leave to Beaver” or “Ozzie and Harriet” as the norms against which all families are judged. But I can’t even imagine Ozzie & Harriet engaged in some horizontal huffing and puffing. Can you? We’re all bent out of shape when it comes to our sexualities. Our societal, religious and other cultural phobias and fantasies have perverted our interpersonal intimate relations beyond recognition. We wouldn’t know NORMAL if it bit us in the ass.

All that said, almost all of us agree that fooling around with young people before they are physically and emotionally mature enough to handle the complexities involved in the sexual experience with another… or others, is a taboo of the first order.

I also agree with you that if your son or daughter is molested, it will most likely be by a relative - sibling, parent, uncle/aunt, grandparent or close family friend. We don’t hear about the vast majority of these “in house” abuses for a thousand reasons. Other than putting your children under 24-hour supervision until they’re “of age” there is no practical defense. In a few cases you can’t even trust a female to not molest.

But I can tell you one thing… IF you should discover your child has been interfered with, it is YOUR REACTION to the crime that will likely make a much greater lasting impression on the young one, than the interference event itself. Parents who go ballistic ALWAYS MAKE MATTERS WORSE. A calm, quiet, supportive approach is by far the best for the child. If you must start WW3 over it, MAKE SURE you don’t do any of it in front of the child. NEVER. It’s a messy business, especially if you’re about to send daddy or uncle or grandpa to the slammer for a decade.

.... a former MSW registered social worker

I think any adult with a sexual deviation that enables & allows him/her to sexually interfere with a child has a mental deficiency beyond which most of us can understand and beyond which medical science can treat. Castration doesn’t alter sexual proclivity - only the ability to perform a penetrating sexual act. Sexuality exists BETWEEN THE EARS not between the legs. To write a “how-to” manual of this sort is an odious, disgusting thing to do.

A society that cannot even consistently define what a “child” is (some arbitrary legal age may define it for legal purposes but that’s simply a convenience - I’m sure there are young people over the age of puberty who are aware of their sexuality and can enjoy giving it expression without emotional damage, just as I’m sure there are those in their 20s, 30s and up who still are not emotionally stable enough to deal with it), and a society cannot even define what “obscene” is (beyond “I know it when I see it”), and ESPECIALLY when that society has a FUNDAMENTAL CONSTITUTIONAL LAW that protects a citizen’s right to express his/her views publicly, IT HAS A REAL PROBLEM. To allow an author to publish his/her thoughts is a fundamental right in the American philosophy.

Under those circumstances, to arrest him/her for doing so is clearly not allowed under the law. But then that minor detail has never stopped “authorities” before. The hypocrisy inherent in the American psyche is damn near as odious as pedophilia. This is censorship which, IMHO, is as ugly a word as pedophilia. At least with child molestation there is an end to it at some point. Once censorship begins there will be no end.

whoops, wrong post on wrong story.  obviously meant for “net neutrality” story.

Of course a bill of this type would be called “net neutrality.”  Orwell rolls, once
more, in his grave.