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Ear to the Ground

Convicting Private Manning

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Posted on Apr 23, 2011
Flickr / mar is sea Y

President Obama said in an impromptu interview that accused WikiLeaker Pfc. Bradley Manning “broke the law” by sharing classified documents.

The trouble is, Manning has yet to be tried in a court of law. The 23-year-old has been incarcerated since May 2010, facing a battery of charges for his alleged involvement in releasing state secrets to Julian Assange’s WikiLeaks site. He was moved from Quantico, Va., to Fort Leavenworth, Kan., last week amid growing concern about the severity of his treatment. Protesters in San Francisco had pressed Obama on Thursday to free Manning, spurring his off-the-cuff remarks.  —KDG

Glenn Greenwald at Salon.com

It may be that Obama spoke extemporaneously and without sufficient forethought, but it is—at best—reckless in the extreme for him to go around decreeing people guilty who have not been tried: especially members of the military who are under his command and who will be adjudged by other members of the military under his command. Moreover, as a self-proclaimed Constitutional Law professor, he ought to have an instinctive aversion when speaking as a public official to assuming someone’s guilt who has been convicted of nothing. It’s little wonder that he’s so comfortable with Manning’s punitive detention since he already perceives Manning as a convicted criminal.

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By reynolds, April 28, 2011 at 9:41 am Link to this comment

dipsonymous, eclectra, hernonymous bosh strikes me
as the hormone replacement version of go right young
man- without the sense of humor.
i make a point of reporting it’s comments as
offensive because almost all of it’s comments are
offensive, as best i can decipher what little i
suffer to read.
i’m picturing it as a baltic hybrid of granny
clampett, godzilla and shelley winters as charlotte
haze.
i’m pleased to say i have no idea what it is, or why
it is foaming at the mouth.

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By Shenonymous, April 28, 2011 at 5:17 am Link to this comment

You are a hit and run artist ardee.  In six words “You are an
offensive defensive AH”

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By ardee, April 28, 2011 at 4:11 am Link to this comment

In the two years (next week in fact) I have posted here I have read your diatribes and bludgeoning of any and all who dared to criticize that in which you believe. I have enumerated some of these instances below.

You are so blind as to berate me for the very habits you yourself possess, a common enough psychological condition in fact. If I am a thug then what are you, a “thugess”.

My intention, when first we entered this “field of battle” was to expose you for what you really are, and I believe I have accomplished that. My desire for change, for fairness, for justice forces me to expose you for what you are, a defender of the status quo, and by association, of torture ,endless war, and injustice.

You have posted enough attacks, on this very thread, and on another not me as well, to make my accusations about you plain enough. Thanks for pleading guilty , however involuntary. I now leave the field to you as I tire of this middle school level exchange. I do hope you seek help though.

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By Shenonymous, April 27, 2011 at 8:56 pm Link to this comment

You are a thug, ardee. You always was and always will be on Truthdig.
You show a terrible violent nature.  Whoever doesn’t hold the same
beliefs you do, you want to tear them limb from limb, and you want
to beat them to a bloody pulp to destroy them.  It is an ugly soul you
show.  And if anyone should dare to defy you, as I do, you rip them
up one side and down the other.  You haven’t the slightest idea of how
to debate, you only want to berate.  You show yourself to be a paltry
man with a smaller mind who uses adolescent name-calling to try to
broaden your pathetically wimpy empty chest. It is unimaginable that
such an acrid individual as you show yourself to be has ever had a
moment of happiness.

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By Shenonymous, April 27, 2011 at 8:39 pm Link to this comment

You mean the trooths you post ardee!  LOL

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By ardee, April 27, 2011 at 4:43 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous, April 26 at 10:08 pm
When I think of you, and it is only when I read your scurrilous and lying rants here, I think only that you are a traitor the country in which you live and a troll of the first water.

It becomes ever more obvious that you have no defense against the truths I have posted, and will continue to post, about your inconsistencies, outright lies and attacks upon folks seeking change.

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By Shenonymous, April 26, 2011 at 6:27 pm Link to this comment

The Rachel Maddow show this evening is for anyone interested in
their own rights in America.

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By Shenonymous, April 26, 2011 at 6:08 pm Link to this comment

Awe ardee, you must go to bed thinking of me.  “What a hoot,”
says the Phony Shrew.

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By ardee, April 26, 2011 at 5:46 pm Link to this comment

RayLan, April 26 at 8:06 am

Well done and welcome. This person needs what you serve up. Her latest responses, posted, I assume, while she was lying on the floor, holding her breath and kicking her feet show plainly that you are on the right track ..err make that the correct track, shrew dominates the right track, obviously..

I do not know if you are as aware of her vitriolic past but she has vilified everyone not her in the past.

Shrew:

Hates Greens, or any other third party advocate.
Hates supporters of Assange and Wikileaks and heaps abuse upon them.
In one post of several months ago she actually insulted ten posters in a twelve paragraph post, I was hoping for a Guinness Book entry for that gem.
She does, from time to time, assuming that the meds kick in, attempt reasonable discourse. But it never lasts because the world fails to see that she is correct all the time, how very churlish of us all.
In the end, she is just a phony, a lack of vision democrat and an apologist for torture, murder, endless war and working almost tirelessly against any attempt to move this nation forward.

So sad for her,huh?

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By Shenonymous, April 26, 2011 at 5:31 am Link to this comment

You have no point to prove, RayLan.  Your head does come to a
point though, with a white hood on it.

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By RayLan, April 26, 2011 at 4:55 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous
“Here’s a point for you, RayLan, my middle finger”

Thank you for proving my point - QED.

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By Shenonymous, April 26, 2011 at 4:37 am Link to this comment

Here’s a point for you, RayLan, my middle finger.

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By RayLan, April 26, 2011 at 4:06 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous
“To see
something pointless. take a look in the mirror, RayLan.


Wow.That was logically devastating! A point is not a point. It explains your insurmountable blather on this blog and all your pointless and fallacious ‘ad hominem’ attacks, your only refuge from pointlessness.

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By Shenonymous, April 26, 2011 at 3:59 am Link to this comment

A point is a point is a point.  A point by any other name is still a
point.

Points have neither volume, area, length, nor any other higher
dimensional analogue. Thus, a point is a 0-dimensional object.
Points and pointless have much the same meaning.  To see
something pointless. take a look in the mirror, RayLan.

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By RayLan, April 26, 2011 at 3:40 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous
“My point was that except for his fan club the public-at-large does
not care if Manning revealed anything or not.  “

That is a point? - a rather pointless one.
Regarding your personal attack about reasoning I can only answer -
What does reasoning have to do with what you said?
I just quoted you and proceeded logically from there.
If you knew anything about logical argumentation, you would recognize this as ‘reductio ad absurdum’.

Pvt Manning’s incarceration is not about what the ‘public-at-large’ thinks or cares about. It’s about what the powers that be , namely the military-industrial complex thinks and cares about. This insignificant boy embarassed the Godzilla of illegitmate power and will just end up as another snack. Due process be damned.

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By Shenonymous, April 26, 2011 at 3:31 am Link to this comment

You are obsessed with me, ardee.  LOL Seems your brain is just
as shrunken as your comrade’s.  Misery loves company.  You do
provide amusement.  I always look forward to reading your speech
impedimented comments.  Spit spit spit.  Most TDers are grim, but
you actually levitate.  Must be that lightweight mental capacity. 
Yeah, that has got to be it.

Sigh, the disadvantaged always earns my pity.

Vewy trwewly yerz,
Says the Shrew aka Shrewnonymous aka Shepotamus. I really like that
last one and use it often.  Did I ever thank you for it?  If not, why thank
you ardee!  Havana good day!

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By ardee, April 26, 2011 at 2:52 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous, April 25 at 10:24 pm

Typical Shrewnonymmous commentary and right on target in your typical pattern. Posit some fascist remark, insult any who raise objection to it, change the subject immediately with insult and innuendo, then post “chummy” commentary for a bit until your next political gaffe reveals the real you. You are no longer fooling anyone, broom rider, and your tactics become stale and expected.

I guess any critique of you would have all who dare challenge your call for the status quo and suspension of our constitutional rights in a cell next to Bradley Manning, whose despicable treatment you think just fine, and by your own words too.. Sham and fraud and nothing particularly deeper than that.

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By Shenonymous, April 25, 2011 at 6:43 pm Link to this comment

RayLan, it was not without expectation that one without good
reasoning powers would come to the conclusion you just did. 
My point was that except for his fan club the public-at-large does
not care if Manning revealed anything or not.  But the government certainly did.  And your response to what you quoted me saying
does not quite fit.  It is doubtful you can answer my questions,
RayLan, yourself.

Let’s take the current WikiLeaks about Guantanamo.  The expose of
mismanagement that is being reported today.  Do you think the public
cares a rat’s ass?  Maybe Amnesty International will make some noise,
and maybe some things will be changed, but as far as what it means to
the public, I would venture to say, nada or at most, not very much.  Just
listen to Rachel Maddow’s report tonight.

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By Shenonymous, April 25, 2011 at 6:24 pm Link to this comment

You simply don’t count, ardee.  You are a zero, a zilch, a cypher.

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By RayLan, April 25, 2011 at 6:23 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous
“What makes you think, gerard, that there is truth in the leaked
documents?  “That WikiLeaks are such an important revelation?”

Then Manning revealed nothing.. caused no trouble since it was all dubious - Let the reader beware.
All classified lies - No more dangerous than reading the National Inquirer.

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By ardee, April 25, 2011 at 6:03 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous, April 25 at 9:40 pm

Oh Shrew you are such a joker. To think you would have us believe that you actually have a friend, what a hoot.

Further, you obnoxious and objectionable pitch woman for fascism, you may attempt to change the subject all you wish but the fact remains that you ascribe to the theory ,by your own words, that our constitutional rights are subject to the whims of current events. Yet you dare call yourself a social democrat, what a damnable liar you are.

I do not blame you for believing that no one is paying attention, You must want the govt you work so hard here to defend to remain ignored and their increasingly heinous actions pass below the radar. But more folks than you might hope are waking up.

Just as more here are catching on to your sick and sad little positions. You are a real piece of excrement and no amount of “I dont care what you say” or “my mythical friends all laugh with me” alters that fact. Your increasingly pathetic attempts to change the subject for that matter cannot possibly work in the face of such outrageous disregard for elementary rules of law and justice.


This last position of yours is far from the first time you have given this forum a glimpse into the worms that infest your head , and I care not one whit what you may think of my retort to your crap. It is not for you I stand in opposition to you, little dictatorial guttersnipe , but to defend decency and try to get others to stand against you, as any citizen of this nation should do.

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By Shenonymous, April 25, 2011 at 5:40 pm Link to this comment

For an old man, ardee, you are so childish.  And your compadre
reynolds’ brains appear to be shrunken.  Do you guys camp
together?  What a hoot you two are. Here is a bit of information
that you might file away. The names you call me, Shrewnonymous,
Shrew, Shepotamus, I actually like.  Please feel free to be an ass and
call me names whenever you like.  I’ve told all my family and friends,
and I do have many of both, that they may call me those names any
time they want.  We just laugh with much mirth.  hahaha Heck I even
like hieronymous bosch!  It’s a privilege to be given his name.  I too
have much criticism of the Church as I think religion poisons
everything, exactly as Christopher Hitchens writes. 

What makes you think, gerard, that there is truth in the leaked
documents?  “That WikiLeaks are such an important revelation?”
That they are a revelation at all?  I really think those who sing
Wikihymns are awaiting for The Holy Pages of WikiLeaks to reveal
some arcane knowledge to the inhabitants of this country cannot point
to any effect the exposed documents have had on this government or
this society either!  They might contain some provocative and possibly
dangerous and precariously invidious information that could prove
perilous to real people, but it is actual effects that would show their
true value.  The machinations of the government has not even skipped
a beat since the theft came to light.  There are hundreds of thousands
of documents that the government is reviewing for their possible
volatility, and that is why it is taking so much time.  It is so obvious
that it is comical that there is a question of why he has not been
brought to trial yet.  But in the final analysis at least up to this point,
the potentially damaging documents have not caused even a stir in the
public’s life.  Hardly anyone is paying the slightest attention to them. 
The news services love whatever gets published so they can speak one
or two headlines, but that is it.  However, the state department and the
justice department may have some deeper interest.  I do not believe for
a second that Manning will do anything but serve a prison sentence. 
He will stand trial and you can bet the farm it will be broadcast and
publicized up the wazoo.

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By gerard, April 25, 2011 at 12:36 pm Link to this comment

“I have no way to judge nor do you nor anyone else who participates on this blog what goes on at the state level.  We only have hearsay that is unreliable at best and occasional reports by the unreliable news media.”—Shenonymous

Precisely my point:It is BECAUSE we ordinary citizens have only “hearsay .. and occasional reports by unreliable news media” about what goes on in secreted “diplomacy” that the WikiLeaks are such an important revelation. Information is the lifeblood of democracy. Without it, citizens have no way of knowing what their government is doing.  So long as government can keep people from knowing what it is doing, it can commit great wrongs and escape censure or avoid self-correction.  A government that cannot self-correct, or refuses to do so, is not a democracy, for the primary premise of democracy is that “the people” if given accurate information can change their government to rectify mistakes.

Diplomacy in particular, kept secret from all the common people everywhere, secludes itself to the people’s disadvantage worldwide. Diplomacy, in the act of “protecting” the powerful, does great injury to the hapless victims of war, injustice, theft, exploitation and ultimately slavery. If we cannot know what goes on in “diplomatic” procedures, we are doomed to be victims of incessant deceit, bribery, exploitation, power-plays and ultimately wars over misunderstandings, rivalries and economic competition. 
  Knowledge is power.  Whether we ordinary people are wise enough to know how to use it is now the question.

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By reynolds, April 25, 2011 at 6:40 am Link to this comment

dipsonymous

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By reynolds, April 25, 2011 at 6:38 am Link to this comment

disponymous, a corporate stooge? the feckless one who
doesn’t know the meaning of the word feckless- while
sitting in front of dictionary.com? that stooge?
note those who tout america faultless integrity are
those who can’t spell it.

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By RayLan, April 25, 2011 at 3:21 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous
“Freedom of the press is the most precious freedom next to freedom of speech.  But those are both mitigated when the security of one’s country is at stake. “
A whopping contradiction.
The dissemination of information, classified or otherwise, does not mitigate freeom of the press.
That amounts to saying that the free dissemination of information mitigates the free dissemination of information.
Freedom of speech and the press is the first thing to go, when government becomes corrupt and autocratic. See Nazi Germany or Fascist Spain.
At that point everything becomes classified - like uh— the Truth. This tendency to over-classify is firmly on the path to such autocracy.
Crimes need secrecy.

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By ardee, April 25, 2011 at 3:01 am Link to this comment

Freedom of the press is the most precious freedom next to freedom of speech.  But those are both mitigated when the security of one’s country is at stake.

I would offer these words of The Shrew as proof positive that she is not our friend, nor is she a friend of democracy either. The next time she sheds her crocodile tears at being so “misunderstood” or treated so poorly by the “left” I would ask you to recall those heinous and stupid words of hers and compare them to those of Thom Paine, we all know them yet perhaps, in her zeal to defend the status quo and creeping fascism, the shrew has forgotten them:

“He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates that duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself.”

To suggest that circumstances may occur wherein freedom, of any kind, speech or press, can or should be suspended is a very dangerous suggestion. So dangerous as to make clear the intent of this poster and the side she so willingly takes, against us all.

“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserves neither liberty nor safety.” Benjamin Franklin

Beware, forum, this obvious corporate stooge.

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By RayLan, April 25, 2011 at 2:57 am Link to this comment

The President has no business passing judgment on a legal case that hasn’t even been tried. He’s a lawyer, he should know better. What does it take to convince people that he is no more liberal than Boehner, which explains his hawkish favor of the military?
When this kangaroo non-trial actually happens, even if Bradley is still sane, he will be executed, as a scapegoat for their obvious corruption. This is not David and Goliath- it’s Bambi meets Godzilla.

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By legalist, April 24, 2011 at 11:02 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

RenZo and Shenonymous: Legally speaking, there are many types of armed conflict other than war. In order to have even a de facto state of war, you require national governments (or in the case of civil war, claimants to being a national government) engaged in armed conflict with each other. The conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan are de facto not wars because there is no definable enemy government; in both cases, there is an insurrection that US forces are, formally, assisting the national governments to suppress. Libya is not a war because the Libyans are not shooting back.

In all cases, the US is legally not at war because Congress has not declared war.

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By fearnotruth, April 24, 2011 at 10:38 pm Link to this comment

RE: Manning is a criminal who acted contrary to the oath
he took.  He is a hero only to those who hate the US.

wrong again

a do-gooder patsy, who fell into an NSA sting, flipped into a global CIA psy-op
- virtually everyone’s duped on the issue… e.g.

Nihilists of The World Unite: Wikileaks Is The “Cognitive Infiltration” Operation
Demanded by Cass Sunstein

Webster G. Tarpley - TARPLEY.net - January 20, 2011

Awareness is growing around the world that the Wikileaks-Julian Assange
theater of the absurd is radically inauthentic – a psyop. Wikileaks and its
impaired boss represent a classic form of limited hangout or self-exposure, a
kind of lurid striptease in which the front organization releases doctored and
pre-selected materials provided by the intelligence agency with the intent of
harming, not the CIA, nor the UK, nor the Israelis, but rather such classic CIA
enemies’ list figures as Putin, Berlusconi, Karzai, Qaddafi, Rodriguez de
Kirchner, etc. In Tunisia, derogatory material about ex-President Ben Ali leaked
by Wikileaks has already brought a windfall for Langley in the form of the rare
ouster of an entrenched Arab government.

At Foggy Bottom and Langley, a manic fit has been building since the flight of
Ben Ali. US imperialist planners now believe they can re-launch their shopworn
model of the color revolution, CIA people-power coup, or postmodern putsch
against a whole series of countries in the Arab world and far beyond, including
Italy. The color revolutions had been looking tarnished lately, as a result of the
failure of the Twitter Revolution in Iran back in June 2009. Previously, the
Cedars Revolution of 2005 had failed in Lebanon. The Orange Revolution in
Ukraine had been rolled back with the ouster of NATO-IMF kleptocrats
Yushchenko and Timoshenko. In Georgia, the Roses Revolution was increasingly
discredited by the repressive and warmongering regime of fascist madman
Saakashvili.

[...]

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By Shenonymous, April 24, 2011 at 10:07 pm Link to this comment

You are probably right, gerard, about the low calibre of diplomatic behavior, but who in particular no one ever says.  Do you have inside information?  I dare say no one on Truthdig does.  The argument that government must be transparent is crucial.  I am not arguing against that in the least, though there are those who have their own fanatical scheme would say I do.  What I am arguing is the necessity for the security of this nation.  No one in their right mind would say the United States does not have enemies who would in a blink of an eye blow you or me up if they had the opportunity.  I do not know that diplomacy is feckless.  What do you mean by feckless?  Useless, worthless, incompetent, inept, good-for-nothing, ne’er-do-well; lazy, idle, slothful, indolent, irresponsible, shiftless, no-good, of no-account? What is the basis of the accusation of feckless? Deceitful, I would tend to agree but world politics demands deceit.  The world is not without its deceits.  It is naive to think it doesn’t.  It takes very careful negotiations to work through possible annihilation not only for Americans but for others as well.

I have no way to judge nor do you nor anyone else who participates on this blog what goes on at the state level.  We only have hearsay that is unreliable at best and occasional reports by the unreliable news media. 

Of course it is not Manning’s nor Assange’s fault if the US fails.  But that does not exonerate Manning’s theft of American documents and putting them in the hands of those who would publish them for enemies of America to use as they can.  Exactly what improvement have you seen that Wikileaks has provided?  I would wager none in the nine months since the PFC leaked the documents!

From a Tulsa World article last December, “While at Fort Huachuca, Brad was reprimanded for putting mundane video messages to friends on YouTube that carelessly “revealed sensitive information.” The infraction must not have been serious, because by August he’d graduated from training as an intelligence analyst with a security clearance.”  Did he harbor anger for the reprimand and therefore used his skill and clearance to get even?  Pure imaginary conjecture to be sure, but within the realm of possibilities.  Anger among soldiers is not unknown.  He did sustain nerve damage in one of his arms from an injury. 

Freedom of the press is the most precious freedom next to freedom of speech.  But those are both mitigated when the security of one’s country is at stake.

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By Textynn, April 24, 2011 at 8:50 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Oh don’t worry. Manning will be tried behind close doors and none of us will hear a word of it.  In fact, Manning probably won’t either. Wait, that already happened.

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By RenZo, April 24, 2011 at 8:34 pm Link to this comment

My apologies to SPOOKY, it was Legalist who asserted that the US has not ‘been at war since’ WWII (still shaking my head).
But SPOOKY did assert that Manning is a criminal for distributing restricted information (quod non erat demonstrandum).

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By John P., April 24, 2011 at 8:07 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Well said Gerard -

For me its all a fight against greed, and at a very basic level. I read somewhere that theres way more than enough food to feed the world, but those holding the food stuffs refuse to ease the prices and hold out for larger profits.

Several countries are operating with a type of universal health care, and it is working.

I’m pretty sure that most of us here already know that the ‘other’ governments around the world are happy to see U.S. secrets revealed, moves revealed, that U.S. diplomats/agents etc.
are making, and that, of course - in this deadly game of one-upsmanship, would give them an advantage at some level.

I studied civics in high school, then political science in college and know enough now that it sickens me. What I have learned from those teachers and the text, is that there is a constant
deadly game with plenty of murders that we never know about, going on in deadly relations with other governments cold wars or not. As we all know here at TD, murders also take place within are cities and countrysides ect.

The people at the top are elected by us, and paid by our taxes. We have every right to hold them accountable. That is what this site is about. When I find out they are making moves and statements that are not beneficial to the poor, lower, and middle class - then I will bark and howl, and its my right to.

At the deepest level, we make choices, i believe these choices reflect on who you really are. If a politician chooses to better himself for financial gain - and doing so - at the expense of the poor, lower and middle classes, then I have a problem with that individual, organization, affiliation etc.

Where I work we are divided, by belief, Repubs, Demos, etc. The main core always came down to: how does it effect the poor, lower and middle class? Because I live with those classes every day, I want them to be in a normal state of mind whenever possible. This statement i apply to the world since I do travel a bit each year, and even if i didn’t, it would still apply.

I’m an idealist for sure. And i will die one. I hate war absolutely, I will not pull that trigger, I will not push that button. And yes i have played those violent video games when i was younger. Now i know better, they desensitize your mind, violent movies too.

Question authority. We pay their salaries.

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By RenZo, April 24, 2011 at 7:41 pm Link to this comment

SPOOKY - did you not think it laughable (and ironically so) to assert that dropping bombs, shooting planes, flying attack drones, aiming at combatants and killing civilians with great foresight, planning and deliberation are all NOT-war? 
War is, you assert, only a state of diplomatically hostile arrangements?

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By RenZo, April 24, 2011 at 7:27 pm Link to this comment

And, DEAR SPOOKY, the concept you seem to espouse of “my country right or wrong” (aka ‘just following orders’) is more or less what the Nürnberg judicial panel rejected as being insufficient defense for war crimes (war of aggression, genocide, deliberate targeting of civilians, etc).

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By RenZo, April 24, 2011 at 6:58 pm Link to this comment

The idea that anyone in this country (including the President of the United States) believes the accused are innocent until proven guilty is naive, simplistic and misbegotten. I believe the notion began as a strictly legalistic device to make prosecutors work harder. Its propagation is mythology, urban legend or deliberate propaganda.

Obama promised transparent government, I recall hazily, but must politically be seen as tough on “anti” American spies & traitors (before election). Criminals who are “pro” American or pro Oil or pro Saudi Royal Family are let alone, ignored and treated as not only innocent, but as totally above suspicion.

Justice The Statue is blind, remember? Justice The System is political. Ask the nine US Attorneys who resigned rather than prosecute political enemies of the administration; ask them now, while the remaining 84 US Attorneys of the same administration are still in office. Ask Manning, while Cheney is free. Ask the pee-ons who went to prison for torture at Abu Ghraib when Baby-Bush himself later admitted that he ordered torture, in a book he himself supposedly wrote.

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By Spooky-43, April 24, 2011 at 6:54 pm Link to this comment

By ardee, April 24 at 9:21

“The comments of Spooky are just exactly that,
spooky,and self serving. They ignore that FACT that
every released comment was carefully vetted so as not
to disclose anything that would potentially bring
harm to anyone.”
——————————————————————————-

Who told you the documents were vetted?  How about Charge II, Specification 16:  “Between May 11 and May
27, 2010, taking the US Forces–Iraq Microsoft
Outlook/SharePoint Exchange Server global address
list.”

The Exchange Global Address List contains all the
email addresses and distribution lists of everyone in
the organization, including: job titles, assignments,
phone numbers, and chain of command, in addition to
almost any other data you can tie to an individual.

You don’t have to be very bright to understand what
type of damage could be done with a list like this in
the hands of insurgents. This stupid act alone is
enough to put Bradley Manning away for the rest of
his life.

Manning is a criminal who acted contrary to the oath
he took.  He is a hero only to those who hate the US.
Because no matter what your politics are, when you
are engaged in armed conflict, you do everything you
can to protect your own.  That is what the Code of
Conduct is all about.

And Legalist, who stated, “The US has not been at war
since 1945.” is totally incorrect.  For a country to
engage in war, it does not have to be declared or
legally sanctioned.  If the uniformed, organized
armed forces of a nation or state are actively
engaged in armed conflict with those of another
country or state, a state of “WAR” exists, declared
or not, and the Geneva convention applies, declared
or not.  Declarations do not make war, acts of war
make war.  Currently, a state of war (active armed
conflict) exists between the USA and at least three
other entities. 

And this is why Bradley Manning is in deep doo doo,
even though he is a hero to the anti-American radical
left.

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By legalist, April 24, 2011 at 6:54 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Shenonymous: “Everyone” is mistaken or, in the case of government officials and their supporters, lying in order to justify “wartime emergency” powers.

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By reynolds, April 24, 2011 at 4:23 pm Link to this comment

and you are a fool

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By gerard, April 24, 2011 at 3:43 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous:  You said: “...documents that
affect the security of this country”
Here’s whee I differ:  It is not the documents that affect the security of this country; it’s the low calibre of diplomatic behavior (otherwise known as “international relations”) that affects the security of this country and all other countries entangled in this web of deceit and endless animosities.

The rightness and necessity of getting this information out is that revealing it tells people specifically what they already suspect generally:  That is, that “diplomacy” is so feckless, so deceitful, so deliberately prejudicial that it actually encourages errors of perception, lacks level-headed judgment and amounts to no more (nor less) that a game of one-ups-manship.

As long as such methods are allowed to continue we will all be victims of war and disaster.  The only hope is that, if people know what to work against, they will work against it.  Even that is doubtful, sad to say—but it’s not Manning’s fault (or Assange’s) if we fail.  The Leaks provided our best opportunity for improvement. Those outlets who realized this fact are the ones who published some of the materials released, and that’s why—and that’s freedom of the press at work for more transparent democratic governments.

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By Shenonymous, April 24, 2011 at 3:37 pm Link to this comment

reynolds, April 24 7:06 pm - “hernonymous bosh; you have, in
another thread, seemed to be defending gay people while referring
to them as “the gays”.”
 

reynolds, you are a liar.

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By Shenonymous, April 24, 2011 at 3:35 pm Link to this comment

Yes, Patrick Henry, you like others on TD who want to hear only
your own voice and your own as-usual anti-American sentiments
repeated ad nauseum, would put words into others’, my, mouth. 
I never said jingoistic phrases like ‘freedom is not free’ or ‘we are
over there so they are not over here.’  But I can see how sleazily
you try to make your own case by saying so.  Neat trick, but still a
dishonest trick.  I bet you aren’t even aware of your habit of doing
that.

Manning exposed more than the inner memo’s of the American
people’s nation state department employees.  You can hardly call
it “your” nation’s state department.  Manning did indeed betray
you and all Americans with his theft.  There is a difference between
intentional whistle blowing and exposing state secrets willy nilly. 
Have you read all the hundreds of thousands of documents he stole? 
Of course not.  Do you think even he read them?  I highly doubt he
read over 250,000 documents and with no care if the security of his
country was in jeopardy or not.  But he did have a sneaking feeling
they were sensitive, else why bother to try to “leak” them?  He showed
himself to be reckless and a sensation seeking betrayer of Americans
who put their trust in him as a serviceman who took an oath to protect
this country.  It is all well and good to be heroic but since he did not
even know what he had unleashed, I do not see him as a hero but a
foolish geek, with a let-the-chips-fall-where-they-may kind of
mentality.  Well the chips all fell on his head!  If he were a Chinaman
or an Iranian he would have been put to death already!  At least in
America he will probably get off with a prison sentence. 

Of course there are those who would love to see the United States
compromised and weaknesses exposed.  Sympathizers with those
who hate America.  Are you one of these?

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By reynolds, April 24, 2011 at 3:06 pm Link to this comment

hernonymous bosh; you have, in another thread,
seemed to be defending gay people while referring to
them as “the gays”. foolishly, i tried to point out
to you how offensive it is to refer to people as a
block (the deafs, the blinds). it reads as “those
people”. this is when i learned that anyone who
disagrees with you is treated to bile and contumely.
it was never my intent to insult an unfortunate, nor
to be insulted by one.
this is an opinion page. you don’t own it. other
people get to speak, too, even if they disagree with
you. 
given your misuse of english language, i suspect you
are not a native speaker. from your anger and
invective do i suppose you are sometimes drunk. i am
making an excuse for you as you seem in need of at
least one.
hernonymous is a play on your name. bosh is what you
spew constantly. my sympathies to you.

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By PatrickHenry, April 24, 2011 at 2:52 pm Link to this comment

She,

He did not violate this government, he violated your
freedom and your safety with his arrogance to publish documents that affect the security of this country.


Manning didn’t violate my freedom or security, he did however expose the inner memo’s of my nations state department employees portraying them to be the inept turds they are.

Please don’t insult us with the jingoistic phrases like ‘freedom is not free’ or ‘we are over there so they are not over here’, its all pure hogwash.  This nation could do just fine without a standing army and with a national guard only.

We are armed to the teeth in America.

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By Shenonymous, April 24, 2011 at 11:30 am Link to this comment

legalist, you may be strictly right, but everyone says America is
involved in two wars.  Can you explain that?

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By Shenonymous, April 24, 2011 at 11:29 am Link to this comment

You, reynolds, are an absurdity that proves my several points. 
Manning is a hero only to those who are desperately looking for
a list of heroes that happens to be extremely short.  I’ve never
said anything about his being gay, but you in your stupidity just
did.  One of my kids is gay so I have no problem with Manning
being gay.  Is he gay?  Where did you find that out?  It doesn’t
matter.  It has nothing to do with what he did.  IMO: he is a
criminal and often criminals get hero status by the frustrated and
disaffected.

Hieronymus Bosch, and your ignorance is showing not even knowing
the correct spelling, FYI was the classic protestor…against the Church! 
I would agree that Manning’s actions did provide a nightmare for the
people of America.  He did not violate this government, he violated your
freedom and your safety with his arrogance to publish documents that
affect the security of this country.

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By legalist, April 24, 2011 at 10:14 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Shenonymous: While reviewing your Constitution, look up the power to declare war. No war has been declared by Congress since 1941. The US has not been at war since 1945.

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By reynolds, April 24, 2011 at 9:51 am Link to this comment

diamond; in benefit of doubt, i think the problem is as
much about sobering up as it is growing up.

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By reynolds, April 24, 2011 at 9:45 am Link to this comment

does not the constitutional guarantee of the right of
free expression necessarily include opinions?
i think it fair to allow that hernonymous bosh is at a
distinct disadvantage in an exchange between people who
speak english. in any exchange, one must accept the
possibility, and in her case probability, of divergent
opinion.
bradley manning is a hero. incidentally, he is also, as
she puts it, one of “the gays”. perhaps that’s what she
finds so offensive.

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By bogi666, April 24, 2011 at 9:32 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The fact that ObomberBush has publicly prejudiced the case against Manning is grounds for dismissing the case. Serving on a Court Martial board for Manning’s trial and voting for acquittal of manning would be career suicide for anyone serving on the board.

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By Shenonymous, April 24, 2011 at 7:40 am Link to this comment

I see the Leftist Truthdig Thought Police are at it again denigrating
and berating the ShepotamousShrewnonymous!  What fascists are
the ultra-leftists?  Yeah, big ones who are so somnambulant they
aren’t even aware they are such pigs. While opinions are not precisely
guaranteed in the Constitution, yours are not any more worthwhile than
mine.  I’ve stated why I have the opinion I do, and if you don’t like it,
boopie, lump it.  Civilized, you might look that word up ardee!  You do
not qualify, nor do your chums.

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By ardee, April 24, 2011 at 5:21 am Link to this comment

I am most disturbed,frankly, by those who defend the treatment of Bradley Manning, especially those who judge him guilty prior to any trial.

The comments of Spooky are just exactly that, spooky,and self serving. They ignore that FACT that every released comment was carefully vetted so as not to disclose anything that would potentially bring harm to anyone. I probably should have simply ignored this seemingly unstable poster.

But those of Shenonymous are ,frankly, heinous, and ignore even the appearance of fairness. She would have us believe that any criticism of Obama must ,perforce, be racist. I include the comment to which I refer in case the Shrew posts another invective filled diatribe claiming the high moral ground:

Nevertheless, and while I am not exactly an Obama supporter these days, taking the moment by his detractors to once again criticize him
for everything and anything he does under the sun is just another moment of self-righteous racist-tinged-over-the-edge.

That Manning’s guilt or innocence is yet to be established is moot, at least to the civilized among us. That treatment he is currently receiving is absolutely defenseless and illegal, and further puts this nation yet again into shame is obvious. Excepting of course to those who post here only to defend the status quo, the ruling class and ally themselves with such as GRYM and the other right wingers, despite treacly and ridiculous comments that they do not “fully” support Obama, the Democrats and the sick and corrupt system itself..

While I have been over the top critical of the fairy tale king at least he is honest in his positions here if not in his presentations, his facts, or his suppositions. Regrettably,Shrewnonymous cannot claim such, as she once again proves with her position here.

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fearnotruth's avatar

By fearnotruth, April 24, 2011 at 1:02 am Link to this comment

RE: Bradley Manning is a traitor to those whom he took on an obligation to
protect.

baloney - naive in the extreme

he’s honest and well-meaning, but he’s also a patsy in an NSA sting operation;
and a useful fool in a larger CIA psy-op to dump loads of damning intel into
the world media - nothing even classified as ‘secret’ yet useful enough in
articulating disruptive so-called ‘color revolution’ operations, intended to
dislodge ME despots, not sufficiently compliant (Mubarek in particular and now
Gadafi) - very complicated psy-op… but, if he could be seriously interviewed
by honest media, the whole thing could start to unravel in the MSM - for this
reason he’s held incommunicado

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By John, April 24, 2011 at 12:34 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Wars based on lies have not one shred of honor in them. 
Anyone who makes such a war possible is showing
depraved indifference to the millions of people killed
and injured in such wars.  Talk of honor and hierarchy
is meaningless in an immoral war.  Our governments and
armed forces have become tools of sociopathic
corporations that rape nature and the future to grab
resources and make quick profits.

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By d, April 24, 2011 at 12:14 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Spooky is a scary stupid human who would fit very well
in Nazi Germany with his venom and ignorance. No way to
reason with this moron.

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By John P., April 23, 2011 at 11:29 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I hail Bradley Manning as a hero for truth.

The war that he fights is above and beyond the enlisted man/women. He has stepped up to a higher level and begun his war against deception itself.

I can only wonder why someone before him did not have the guts to do this leak?

He knew his actions would get him where he is now, but bravely he carried on, knowing that sometimes, in the field, you must make decisions, not unlike a soldier or an agent in an enemies territory.

I call that - a damn good bit of soldiering !

We truthdiggers are, as so properly named, pretty much obsessed with getting the truth as you might have guessed.

After all, our current government now (14 Trillion in debt to China = roughly 46K per person in the United States) has nearly collapsed the dollar.

China and Russia have announced that they will no longer use the dollar to trade.

Notice how the media has kept that silent?

Our current plutocracy of making weapons, selling weapons, declaring wars, fighting wars, and in the media; painting the rosy picture that someone has to stop this dictator or that
dictator, has brought on the following numbers;

Source: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics 9.2%

Source: Gallup Poll 19%

Nearly one in five Americans continue to be unemployed or employed part-time looking for full-time work, according to the latest Gallup unemployment report, which states that the underemployment rate in America stood at 19 percent at the end of December, up from 17.2 percent at the end of November 2011.

The lies and deceit with those giving the orders to the armed forces remain in charge.

Unfortunately, all of this may end with the collapse of the dollar.

We all know what’s going to happen then.

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Spooky-43's avatar

By Spooky-43, April 23, 2011 at 10:20 pm Link to this comment

Bradley Manning is a traitor to those whom he took on an obligation to protect.  I am not talking about those in leadership positions who were embarrassed at best, and deservedly so, but I am talking of operatives in the field, allies, who also took on that same obligation at one level or another.

Having taken on that obligation myself, I understand the brotherhood of those who serve in the military, including the operatives who serve on the fringes for the same cause.  The military man does not create or determine the conflict at hand, and in many, many cases, does not agree with the politics of the conflict, obviously. 

But that is why we have hierarchies, where major decisions are made at the top, and those who serve at the bottom are not performing a valid service when they second-guess every decision.  If you don’t agree with what you signed up to do and receive money to do, then QUIT!!  It is that simple.  If you feel strongly about it, then you should be willing to jeapordize your own well-being in the process of quitting.  That is a personal decision.

But in no case, should someone put others in danger during their personal process of disagreeing or quitting.  That is unacceptable. 

While operating in the central highlands of Vietnam, I carried a detailed map with the coordinates of homes, villages and installations which were known to be sympathetic and would provide shelter to Americans in the E&E mode.  The map was stamped “TOP SECRET”.  Would it have been legitimate for some Private First Class in the Army to unilaterally release documents which may contain some information of this sort, which would probably result in the murder of those people who were probably just peasants who were willing to help?

Manning showed he did not understand the primary nature of classified documents, which is not to prevent the embarassment of top officials, (although I do not doubt that many documents are classified illegaly for this reason) but to protect the security of a nation, innocent lives and the lives of your brothers who find themselves in these precarious positions, for one reason or another.

If you want to embarass the people at the top, fine.  But do it in such a way that it does not endanger the people at the bottom.  In this regard, Manning is a criminal and a traitor to his brothers.
Would you expect his brothers, understanding all of this, to treat him like his momma would?  I don’t think so.

And if those who disagree with the way Manning is treated, were serious, they would elect to the highest offices in this country, people who were serious about stopping wars and stopping torture and stopping the need for classifying embarrassing information. 

And don’t say we thought we were by electing Obama.  Obama was, and is, a completely unknown.  He hangs around with leftist radicals but acts more like Bush than Bush did.  Try to find someone you actually know, whose records are not sealed up at great expense.

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By berniem, April 23, 2011 at 6:34 pm Link to this comment

Dear Mr. POTUS: Perhaps you should re-read all of the UN conventions as well as our own constitution and clarify for yourself just how many laws YOU ARE GUILTY OF BREAKING! Also, you may want to recall all of those lies you told us gullible voters back in ‘08 to get yourself elected! As far as I’m concerned you falsified your job application and are duly subject to discharge! You sir are a hypocrite and before I would ever consider voting for you again, I’d just as soon see the reactionaries hold sway so as to facilitate and hasten the demise of this wretched system to which we are currently subjected by you and a criminal, greedy, and at best amoral governing class!

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By johndot, April 23, 2011 at 5:57 pm Link to this comment

Obama’s comment is entirely consistent with his record
since his inauguration and the US’ record in the world
since WW2.

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By john from ojai, April 23, 2011 at 5:18 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The clearest and most useful message from this, is that the Obama administration is not more moral than the Republicans. They both work for the same corporations and lobby groups like AIPAC. We need publicly funded elections and a break up of the media conglomerates/

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By diamond, April 23, 2011 at 4:41 pm Link to this comment

God, Shenonymous, are you ever going to grow up? America invaded two countries on lies and deceit and the invasion of Iraq was illegal, not being authorized by the UN. You can say America’s at war as much as you like but the truth is much more shameful than that ridiculous claim. Ask the 700,000 widows of Iraq, maybe they can explain it to you but I don’t hold out much hope. You’ve got a little wooden head just like Pinocchio’s, so keeping the constitution on your desk is a complete waste of time. Your reference to ‘full wars’ makes me wonder what the alternative would be: a half war, a quarter war? A phony war? In war as in the constitution, the devil’s in the detail. And the way you blur the manufactured colonial neo con wars in Iraq and Afghanistan with a UN/NATO intervention in Libya to prevent Gadhafi murdering an entire generation of activists and razing Benghazi and Misrata to the ground along with their inhabitants proves you just don’t get it.

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Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, April 23, 2011 at 3:54 pm Link to this comment

I keep a printed copy of the US Constitution and Amendments on my
computer desk at all times.  I would direct you to Amendment V
paying special attention to the compound phrase,... “when in actual
service in time of war or public danger…” 

We are in a state of war (2 full wars and one as a NATO member) as
most Americans think so.  We are in a time of public danger, as 9/11
and more recent smaller terrorist episodes testify.

QED

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By California Ray, April 23, 2011 at 3:42 pm Link to this comment

The Commander-in-Chief is just now getting around to saying what we already
knew:  the presumption of innocence was removed in July 2010 when the
punishment phase began at the USMC Quantico Brig.

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By Big B, April 23, 2011 at 3:38 pm Link to this comment

Sheynonamous

I would like you and all the other Manning detractors to do two things. Look up and read the fourth amendment. Then look up and read the Miranda act.

And if you are looking for further enlightenment, check out the oath that president Obama and Bradley Manning took before assuming their duties.

Just like the soldiers that released pictures of Abu-Gaib, Manning was following his oath to the letter, and should be considered national heros.

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By Jim Yell, April 23, 2011 at 3:27 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The documents so far evaluated have been judged by many in authority to be of little value. But, it still goes to the fact brought up in this article—Bradley Manning is not a convicted criminal, he hasn’t even been charged.

It is illegal and high handed for government officials to circumvent the intentions of the law to protect their sorry asses. We the people have need to know what they are up to and they use secrets to protect their misdeeds more than public welfare.

It is documented that many things labeled secrets are well known to be well known by the countries they are supposed to be secrets to. What a farce and I wish i could have my vote back. And as far as people who are not stupid enough to follow blindly being UnAmerican I can say to you that my families have been here since at lest the Mayflower, so shut your unamerican mouth.

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Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, April 23, 2011 at 2:23 pm Link to this comment

In this particular context, I don’t think Obama is afraid of anything
except the enemies of the United States who would use Manning’s
exposed documents to breach the safety of America.  Those who
don’t think so I consider anarchic enemies of the United States.
There is such a thing as justified fear.  Expected is the knee jerk
response to anything Obama would say or do, it doesn’t matter if
it is pre-conditioned Republicans or reactive ultra-left wingers.

And while I have no argument that there have been laws have been
and probably more than we can even guess that have been broken by the violators such as those of Valerie Plame’s covert identity, and it was
egregious let there be no doubt, or the uncountable other violations
and infringements of both legal and moral laws, it does not exonerate
Manning. It is ironic, though, that Plame who was acting as a CIA
operative is being defended by leftists, yet it was immoral of the Bush
castle guards to put her in harm’s way.  Do we know if it was illegal? 
Each case is unique and needs to be adjudicated individually.  Manning,
caught red-handed is obviously guilty, but guilty or not what kind of
treatment he gets as a prisoner who broke the law does matter and
that is the real issue.

Objective investigating and reporting is what needs to be done, neither
of which either those for or against his incarceration have provided. 
That is the travesty.  The State Department spokesman, Crowley, did
criticize apparent treatment of Manning, but he also said he thought
there is no question Manning was guilty.  So he is not really a credible
judge.  He did not actually see any treatment given to Manning.  There
are only reports that have been made by “interested” parties.  I don’t
consider Greenwald a credible witness either as from various interviews,
he is prejudiced for a number of “personal” reasons.  Nor do I consider
the military above telling lies about what they do to prisoners. 

Nevertheless, and while I am not exactly an Obama supporter these
days, taking the moment by his detractors to once again criticize him
for everything and anything he does under the sun is just another
moment of self-righteous racist-tinged-over-the-edge.

Report this

By FRTothus, April 23, 2011 at 1:21 pm Link to this comment

“President” Obama has not enforced the law, ignores
US law where it interferes with corporate interests
of the top 0.01 percent…what’s the diff?

Seems to me what Manning is ACCUSED of doing is far
less significant than ignoring the previous and
continuing crimes of war for empire that Obama the
Compromised practices, whereas Manning has shown a
bravery unknown to most all who go into politics. 
When it comes to actually outing a US spy by US
officials, actually putting people at risk of their
lives, the Law and Order Obama will not prosecute the
‘outing’ of Valerie Plame. There is an honorable
solution: Either put Bush the Lesser and Cheney the
Vile in jail under the same pre-trial conditions,
forced to stand naked, woken up every five minutes,
or release Manning, but the US government does not
know from Honor, is a lawless state with lethal
force, a clear and present danger to itself and the
world.

“The most formidable military machine depends
ultimately on the obedience of its soldiers, ... the
most powerful corporation becomes helpless when its
workers stop working, when its customers refuse to
buy its products.

The strike, the boycott, the refusal to serve, the
ability to paralyze the functioning of a complex
social structure - these remain potent weapons
against the most fearsome state or corporate power.”
(Howard Zinn)

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By gerard, April 23, 2011 at 12:52 pm Link to this comment

Truly shocking breech of justice and of common sense.
Shows how even the United States of America is NOT too big to fail. And is failing, sad to say. Justice is not prejudgment. 
  Fear muddles clear thinking and causes a desire to repress. What and/or who is the President afraid of?  What is he repressing? Why is Bradley Manning a “threat” to him?  (And apparently to many other government officials?)
  Officials who do not feel threatened would see the release of the classified cables as information that illustrates that US and international diplomacy as
presently conducted is a mine-field of lies, bribes
and conflict-inducing misunderstandings. 
  Truly intelligent officials not enslaved by fears would see the cable releases as an opportunity to
self-correct.  The most important advantage of a democracy is the ability to allow criticism and to self-correct.
  Putting critics and whistle-blowers in jail is a sure sign of the decay of self-government. Justifying that act is another sure sign.

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nefesh's avatar

By nefesh, April 22, 2011 at 8:42 pm Link to this comment

They don’t want MTV.
They want to get rid of the brutal police state that Assad represents.

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PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, April 22, 2011 at 6:11 pm Link to this comment

Revolution is in the air of Syria and will not stop till the old regime is out and a new younger one is in place.

They want their MTV.

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By TDoff, April 22, 2011 at 4:19 pm Link to this comment

What has it been, a month now, in which every day is ‘The Bloodiest Day Yet’ in Syria?!

Those who love war are going to be disappointed soon, when the Syrians run out of blood, and the war has to come to an end.

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