ren - you’ve proven my point admirably (“It is native-born Americans who’ve allowed the benefits, etc. to flow to illegals. Don’t blame the illegals for your own failing to manage correctly.”)

Your fellow Americans made it possible for Bola to live, work and remain in the USA illegally. Don’t blame him for taking advantage of the situation to make (what he thinks is) a better life for himself and family.

That was then and this is now. Publishing his name and address 15-20 years after the fact is a hateful and likely racist thing to do. I’m sure you didn’t do it so we could send him congratulations on becoming a US citizen.

I commiserate with you, american citizen in CA.

My own nice, WASP country is slowly but surely being taken over by Orientals and Asians, but at least most of them are legally here. But it sure bugs me when I hear them speak, not in English, of “their country” - not meaning Canada - but China or India. Their bodies may be here but their minds, emotions, allegiences and most of their business dealings are certainly not.

If they were here illegally, I too would be outraged. As I asked in an earlier posting, “So where’s the law? There isn’t one that works because there are just too many “valid” Americans making far too much money off the labor of illegals to allow the system to change. Those in “authority” DO NOT WANT TO SOLVE THE PROBLEMS. THEY JUST WANT TO MANAGE THEM SO THERE’S A MINIMUM OF UPROAR FROM “AVERAGE CITIZEN” WHILE THERE’S A MAXIMUM OF PROFIT FOR ALL THOSE INVOLVED IN THE MANAGING.”

It is native-born Americans who’ve allowed the benefits, etc. to flow to illegals. Don’t blame the illegals for your own failing to manage correctly.

And if you think the police are on your side, you’re dreaming in technicolor. The number one objective of all members of all police forces is to KEEP THEIR JOBS. To do so they absolutely REQUIRE crime to exist if not flourish. The pot MUST be kept on simmer - not too high as to boil over and not too low so some bright spark gets a notion to cut back on policing.

**************************

By american citizen in CA, April 26 at 5:57 pm

I’ll take what you say as true and if it is, it is not much worse or
bleaker than what I imagine from any of those border states.
What makes me wonder is that if any of those ghost terrorists,
such as al qaida, came into america as illegal immigrants, that we
u.s. citizens would be subsidizing them and somehow I don’t
think those congressional, military industrial financial complex
nut jobs would object as it would be easy to cart them out in fear
episode after episode after episode.

By FiftyGigs, April 24 at 11:36 am

““Granted, there are charlatans. And I do believe our
religious institutions—just like our government
and financial institutions—have degenerated under
conservatism. I also believe, however, that there are
people of faith for whom spiritual worth is more a
focus of their lives, and reason for their being,
than is financial worth.”“
************************************

You are very correct about the ‘spiritual worth’ as, at least for
me, it is the crux of the whole matter. If there has to be an
institution of religion, that seems to mean people look or seek to
be told on how to worship and what to worship when all one has
to do is look around them and see.

No one is an expert about religion and everyone is an expert on
their spirituality and to tout or push a religion on to anyone
besmirches the idea of religion, it should be a spiritual and
personal thing because to try and win converts is no more than
trying to get someone to root for your favorite team along with
you, picking sides.

I ‘suggest’ to you that looking into the origins of religion should
help you understand the current state of affairs with people and
the world today. Read Thomas Paines’ works, read what Thomas
Jefferson had to say about it and why he was so adamant about
the separation of church and state. There is another Thomas,
Thomas Inman and Gerald Massey, who along with many
scholars and historians for the last several millennia have
studied and researched the history of religion and I know these
people I named have their works at amazon.com.

Try this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_origin_of_religions

It’s one thing to be arrested and be found out to be in this country illegally, its another to be stopped on the street and hassled over anothers suspicion that you “don’t belong”.

The problem is we have too many police in this country.

Alot of the illegals who work in the trades in Washington are often unskilled and work as laborers, it doesn’t take skilled tradesmen to abate asbestos incorrectly, just a greedy contractor who is willing to risk others lives for the sake of profit.

Many of those who knowingly use illegal undocumented workers need to be held more accountable.

“Because religious charlatans…”

With respect, samosamo, I disagree.

Granted, there are charlatans. And I do believe our
religious institutions—just like our government
and financial institutions—have degenerated under
conservatism. I also believe, however, that there are
people of faith for whom spiritual worth is more a
focus of their lives, and reason for their being,
than is financial worth.

Not everyone considers money to be the measure of
their life’s value and meaning. Say that to a
conservative, and he’ll chortle and reply, “Great!
Give me your money then!”

Fine. Here. Now you can see how much stands between
you and God.

Religious charlatans these days generally reside in
the conservative movement, specifically the
Republican Party. They’re easy to spot, because the
more vocal one is about his or her religiosity, the
less likely it actually means anything to them. They
hide behind a public face of family values shielding
a private life of spiritual decadence.

When I refer to religious leaders I don’t necessarily
mean those who run the “business”.

Like Rev. Wallis, there are many good people out
there, and the same forces attempting to subjugate
the political will of the people (liberalism) are
working to undermine and subjugate religious people
like Rev. Wallis who understand Jesus’ teachings.
He’s done a very brave thing in speaking out. He’s
taking on powerful political and monied interests
with nothing but goodliness on his side. There’s
other heroes out there.

You should consider supporting them. If your causes
are good, they’ll help you.

You’d think in a country that is drowning in “R&R” (Rules and Regulations) and overflowing in agencies and cops to enforce them would be at least semi-competent at controlling its borders.

What judge in his/her right mind would release a suspect on bail who has no ID and/or reason to actually show up on a court date?

America is a great country but it isn’t going to be much longer if it doesn’t start to actually SOLVE problems instead of applying one bandaid after another.

The “War on Drugs” is a great example of the profound corruption that, in turn, is at the root of the relentless escalation of America’s march towards a totalitarian/police state society. Rather than using their brains to SOLVE they attempt to use their brawn to MANAGE. Time after time it doesn’t work but that sure doesn’t stop them from trying the same way again and again. Why? MONEY. There’s just far too much money being made by those in power keeping things the way they are.

The solution is relatively simple. Legalize and control drugs. Heroin and all the other junk would be manufactured properly in the USA and distributed and sold (at affordable prices) in the same way as any other controlled substance is now. Result? The number of theft, break and enter - type crimes would plummet, the load on the medical and judicial systems would be cut in half resulting in the closure of hundreds of jails and thousands of social workers and others in the enforcement and judicial systems would be out of work, and so on. In other words… there’s far more money to be made by keeping things as they are than it would be to solve (most) of the problem.

Same with immigration. Any employer hiring anyone without citizenship papers or a valid work permit, and a valid SS number would jeopardize his license to remain in business. By “jeopardize” I mean - first offence - $10,000 fine. Second offence. License lifted, assets seized and out of business. I submit the “illegal immigration” problem would virtually disappear overnight. It won’t take long for those crossing the border illegally to learn they have even less chance to successfully live in the USA than they do in their own country. No jobs and all medical and social services would be provided ONLY on an emergency basis until transport back across the border could be arranged.

So where’s the law? There isn’t one that works because there are just too many valid Americans making far too much money off the labor of illegals to allow the system to change. Those in “authority” DO NOT WANT TO SOLVE THE PROBLEMS. THEY JUST WANT TO MANAGE THEM SO THERE’S A MINIMUM OF UPROAR FROM “AVERAGE CITIZEN” WHILE THERE’S A MAXIMUM OF PROFIT FOR ALL THOSE INVOLVED IN THE MANAGING.

It’s all about MONEY, folks. Sometimes the truth is really, really ugly.

This guy Carl and NABNYC are using racism to defend this law.  STATES DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO NEGATE FEDERAL LAW!

I live in NJ and let me tell you, in the construction industry, immigrants (nobody asks if they are legal or illegal) have a FABULOUS reputation in the trades.  While there are losers in every ethnic group, on the whole the immigrants are known for being steadier, more reliable, less likely to show up for work late and hung over, able to follow directions (assuming SOMEBODY knows the language).  In short, they are used because they are BETTER WORKERS!  Maybe they actually appreciate the American dream more than native-born folks.

Also, here in NJ, Brazilians are also common in the trades.

Then there are the usual accusations that they are all thieves, criminals and drug-dealers. WAKE UP!  EVERY immigrant group had their criminal element and their hard-workers, whether Irish, Italian, Jewish, Asian or Latino.  It’s nothing new and the SAME racist arguments have been made since the 1840’s.

Nothing has changed except the color and language of the accused.

By FiftyGigs, April 23 at 10:19 pm

““Why are our religious leaders impotent against evil?”“
**********************************

Because religious charlatans belong to the oldest corporations
around, religion, and they want their share of the corporate
buck and to maintain their ability, such that it is, to cow the
citizenry into believing that they are sinners, are born into sin,
are unworthy and must wait for the second coming for any hope
of a contrition of salvation.

THIS IS A RACIST LAW

Yes, the race card, a favorite of our corporate masters. Let us not discuss how flooding the nation with cheap foreign labor drives down wages, pushes natives out of work, burdens local governments, fills low-income housing, crowds county hospitals, and increases crime in the inner cities. It hurts America’s poor minorities, while enriching our rich white masters, and some brown and black masters. But when workers complain, they are told they are racists, while millionaires at the country club enjoy a laugh at the bar.

Why do some people think that Mexicans are natives to Arizona? The American Indians in that state have lived there for centuries, are U.S. citizens, and suffer from this unwanted flood of migrants from the south. Google and you will find that leaders of Indian reservations want the feds to do something about intruders from the south that leave trash piles and commit crimes on their land.

And its not just Mexicans, but Ukrainians, Brazilians, and Filipinos have taken advantage of the world’s most open borders. Do some research to discover that ICE doesn’t bother to detain and deport people until their sixth arrest.

There is hope.

Reverend Jim Wallis: “This law will make it illegal
to love your neighbor in Arizona, and will force us
to disobey Jesus and his gospel. We will not comply.”

This is the element we Americans have been sorely
missing. Strong religious leaders defining
Christianity, and weighing political actions against
Truth.

Up until now, the words of the Bible have been
“translated” by immoral, conservative ideologues.

If Jesus isn’t just a Nazi tool—or grist for the
Republican marketing machine—then religious
leaders of all faiths need to say so! And not just
about this issue, but about every issue.

Where does the Bible excuse lying by Mitch McConnell?
Where does it excuse theft by Goldman Sachs? Where in
the Bible does it instruct the Supreme Court to love
thy corporation as thyself? When did refreshing the
“tree of liberty” trump “You shall not murder”?

Why are our religious leaders impotent against evil?

What I have read is that this new law is somehow supposed to
get a handle on illegal immigration not legal immigration or
emigration. For me the whole thing is out of context for one,
because the msm and everywhere else, this just keeps being
reported as immigration and unless the definition of
immigration by itself means illegal then it would be correct, but knowing the msm, I have my doubts about any legitimate reporting.

Seems also that arizona and the rest of the s.w. border states
are unrelentingly having to cope with vast hordes of illegal
immigrants coming into this country and if the feds can’t get a
grip on it why should the states not chip and try to keep people
from illegally entering the u.s.a.?

The one issue I see would be the gung ho law enforcement
being overzealous in their job and that is a problem anywhere
these days at any level of law enforcement.

Who will they put in charge of this? Birthers?
I don’t have a green card. My drivers license proves
nothing. I could probably locate the papers my mother
joined the DAR with, but I would rather make some cop
live with a lawyer on speed dial for false arrest.
THIS IS A RACIST LAW. Most of the racial appearance
that we associate with Mexicans are due to their Native
American ancestry. So here we are in the century of the
fruit bat still discriminating against the true owners
of this land.

Yes, education is dismal in this nation.

Read some history, and you learn that American Indians came from Asia, they are Asian-Americans. Read the dictionary, and you learn that an immigrant is someone who came from another nation, and someone born in a nation is a “native.”

I realize many are victims of corporate propaganda, and respond to rational arguments about what is best for American workers with silly corporate slogans. Since everyones ancestors came from a spot in central Africa, one can argue that we are all immigrants and all African-Americans. But that would be silly, because we are talking about the problem of criminal aliens on our streets, and the problem of high unemployment and low wages (especially among minorities) mostly caused by the federal government’s effort by both parties to encourage mass illegal immigration.

I don’t understand most of the claimed basis for objecting to this law.  Some people say it will create racial profiling by the police.  Well, if you’ve got 500,000 illegal immigrants moving here from Mexico every year, who do you expect the police to detain?  Swedes?  The “suspect” is a Mexican or Hispanic.  It isn’t racial profiling in that instance.

Of greater concern, nobody who opposes this bill explains what they suggest.  How can we stop this overwhelming influx of illegal immigrants?  Or should we just have open borders?  Ask the communities being overrun by illegal immigrants if they want open borders.

Every time an immigrant moves to this country, but has less than a high school education, it costs the state and city of residence $85,000.  The immigrant does not earn enough to pay substantial taxes, yet they and their families will use social services.  This is a fact, not an opinion.  Who should pay for that cost?  Assuming our national immigration policy allows uneducated and poor people to move here, which it should, can’t we agree that there need to be limitations on the total number allowed in each year, so that local communities are not bankrupt by the influx?

What about jobs?  People who think that illegal immigrants are all in the fields picking lettuce are operating off their own bigotry.  The illegal immigrants quickly move into jobs other than agriculture.  In the southwest they have taken over many of the manufacturing jobs, as well as restaurant and food service, lawn service, and construction.  Each of those jobs was previously done by Americans who spent their money here.  Mexican illegal immigrants send much of their money to Mexico to be spent, which is a further drain on local economies.

Construction work used to pay $18-25/hour on the west coast.  Now it is done by illegal immigrants at $10/hour.  Who profits?  Not the unemployed construction workers.  Developers profit, but not the working people who are thrown out of their fields, but do not have the experience for other work.  They end up in retail, low paying with no benefits.

Local schools, hospitals, emergency rooms, fire, police, sanitation, water, roads are all overused because of the influx.  Who will pay for that?

We need a national ID for all immigrants with biometric ID provisions.  An employer who hires an immigrant who does not have such card should be fined $10,000/day.  End the jobs, you will radically cut down on the illegal immigration.

Long-term residents should be allowed to apply for amnesty.  Anyone who’s been here less than 7 years should leave or be deported.

The bush-cheney regime fired border patrol workers, and had a deal with Fox to radically increase the number of illegal immigrants.  It benefits businesses, but it hurts everyone else.

Finally, if there are 12 million (could be more) illegal immigrants, and they become citizens through an amnesty program, each by law can bring here parents, siblings, spouses, children.  That 12 million becomes 60 million within a few years.  Who will pay for them?  And what about the citizens of this country who do not want more people flooded in crowding our communities?  When do the citizens get a voice in this?

Let me add that many Americans think that illegals are all good ole Sancho that lives in a shack on a remote farm and works 12 hour days for little pay. They are mostly like us, they want to drink and party. Many don’t have jobs, so they resort to selling drugs, burglary, shoplifting, and other petty crimes. Many belong to gangs.

The reason Arizonans are upset is after their police arrest foreigners here illegally and they spend a few days in jail, the Feds “ICE” often refuse to come pick them up for deportation. If they do, the corrupt fed system allows them free if they demand a court appearance and post no bail. Two days later the police see the same guy loitering on a street corner looking for some action.

For those who don’t know, local police expect ALL Americans to have some kind of ID, and often arrest anyone who fails to produce some. If you provide your birth date or social security number, they can check on their laptop. However, if they can’t verify that, and you can’t remember your address or where you went to high school, you are hiding something. Either illegal or a wanted felon.

My wife has a green card and I did all the paperwork. All resident aliens and visa holders are already required to carry their ID at all times by federal law. Since they are foreigners, I don’t see why anyone would object.

The media just doesn’t grasp the problem, since few live near the border. It is not uncommon for the police to stop someone that speaks limited English and has no driver’s license or insurance. He can’t remember his social security number. So if they arrest him under whatever name he provides, then release him on bail, he just disappears, and never shows up in court, especially for a DUI. In a sane nation, they would call ICE to arrest and deport him, but our corporate leaders in DC object.