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Ear to the Ground

Norway’s Horror: Anti-Semitism Becomes Islamophobia

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Posted on Jul 24, 2011
AP / Thierry Charlier

Members of the Flemish Nationalist Party hold a banner that reads “Europe for Europeans, Islamization Out” during a demonstration in 2007.

A few days ago, before the terrifying bloodshed in Norway, I received an email from the U.S. denouncing the alarming rise of anti-Semitism in France: “Will the world say nothing—again—as it did in Hitler’s time?” The author cataloged a list of attacks against Jewish targets in France over the past few months. He called for a boycott of France and French products: “Only the Arab countries are more toxically anti-Semitic and, unlike them, France exports more than just oil and hatred.”

I’ve been getting such emails now for years since I moved to France. In my view, the major reason for the attacks on Jewish targets is political rather than racial. The leadership of the Jewish community in France (which does not represent the majority of French Jews) has been outspoken in supporting the right-wing policies of the current Israeli government. 

What has long bothered me about such emails, however, is not just a misreading of the cause, but a tunnel vision on the part of many Jews. There is a total disregard for those other Semites and the rampant growth of anti-Islamic and anti-Arab sentiment in France and across Europe over the past few years. The number of attacks on Arab targets and new legislation relating to the practice of Islam in several European countries would have the world’s Jewish community in full cry if they’d been directed against Jewish targets.

Simultaneously, we have seen the rapid growth of right-wing parties across much of the continent. Those parties in the past often had a strong, explicitly anti-Jewish message. The principal targets now are immigrants, mainly Arabs and Muslims. Those parties are no longer confined to kooks and misfits. Anti-Arab/Muslim sentiments are everywhere, from polite dinner conversation to exchanges in street markets to supposedly harmless jokes relayed on the Internet, like the one I received the day after I got the alert on anti-Semitism in France:

Three men, a Frenchman, a Tunisian and an Algerian, find themselves together in a raunchy Parisian bar. They down one beer after another. At one point the Tunisian tosses his empty beer bottle into the air, yells “we’ve got so many empty bottles in Tunis,” pulls out a gun and blasts the bottle apart in midair.

The Algerian also throws his bottle into the air, says “we’ve got so much sand in Algeria, there’s no shortage of glass,” pulls out a gun and shatters the bottle.

The French guy takes a disgusted look at the other two, pulls out a pistol and yells, “we’ve got so goddamn many Arabs in France, I never have to drink with you two creeps again,” and he guns both of them down.

I was still thinking about that the next day when news came of the horrific slaughter in Norway and the gradual disclosures that the suspect was not an bearded Arab terrorist, but a clean-cut white, right-wing terrorist convinced that he was a soldier in the War of Civilizations, defending the Christian West against the threat of Islam.

On his site he wrote approvingly of Islamophobic American blogger Pamela Geller, a frequent guest on Fox News, who also raises the banner of the West against Islam. A poster shows a recent event, which she backed, along with Robert Spencer who operates Jihad Watch.

People like Geller and Spencer, and right-wing leaders across Europe, are already attempting to distance themselves from any responsibility for the outrage in Norway. Their excuses ring hollow, in view of their rabid language and incendiary rhetoric. 

But a more basic question is this: To what degree do the growing anti-Islamic views held by tens (if not hundreds) of millions of “decent” Europeans, folks who would never consider themselves right-wing or racist though they might chuckle at the barroom joke above, contribute to what could be even more horrifying acts to come?

For with growing economic turmoil in Europe and huge numbers attempting to flee the bloody uprisings across much of North Africa, this problem is going to get only worse.

Barry M. Lando spent 25 years as an award-winning investigative producer with “60 Minutes.” He has produced numerous articles, a documentary and a book, “Web of Deceit,” about Iraq. Lando is finishing a novel, “The Watchman’s File.”

—Posted by Barry Lando.

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PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, August 3, 2011 at 4:13 pm Link to this comment

No Lew, you still don’t understand, history is constantly evolving based on the point of view of the witnesses, not the editors.

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By Lew Ciefer, August 2, 2011 at 10:53 am Link to this comment

@ PatrickHenry:

Did you notice that the article you linked to clarified hindsight? That it is NOT history.

If I didn’t understand before I do understand now. You’re a truther. Nuff said.

Sorry I wasted my time.

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PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, July 31, 2011 at 4:54 pm Link to this comment

No Lew, you misunderstand. 

You whine about ad hominem with one breath and go on to dish it out with your own unproven theories and conjucture while crapping on the other posters opinions, in the next.

All you have is opinion to offer from what I’ve seen and I disagree with alot of it.

About hindsight and its impact on ‘history’.

http://historymachine.wordpress.com/2010/10/20/history-in-hindsight-its-nice-but-we-still-have-to-pay-the-bills/

You can accept official history or wait till the evidence is in, based on the ‘hindsight’ and testimony of witnesses, experts and immediate unknown motives not forseen when the official history was proffered.

Kind of like 9/11.

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By Lew Ciefer, July 31, 2011 at 2:52 pm Link to this comment

@ Patrick Henry:

P.H. again you misunderstand. I can take it. I’ve even asked for you hand it to me but all I’ve gotten from you is ad hominem and evidence that you haven’t a clue what the hell you’re talking about. In a dumbarse attempt to give me a shot you demonstrated that you didn’t know what hindsight is. I had to break down a simple sentence that an 8th grader can understand to 5th grade level with explanatory notes. And now you once again try to cheap shot and have again exposed that you’re clueless.

Governments are entities that exist. They are not little imaginary friends up in the sky. No one has asked you to prove a negative. You can counter the claim by simply presenting a case where a government did not grow increasingly worse for the majority that is coerced to support it and increasingly better for those few that compose and control and manipulate it for their benefit.

Here’s how this works. When a hypothesis is made and you disagree, you attempt to prove it wrong by indicating the errors. When you’ve the evidence that counters the hypothesis you present it and everyone says ‘all right!’ And then the individual who presented the hypothesis would have to alter or discard the hypothesis in question. In this case I would have to say ‘almost always’ or ‘with few exceptions’ or ‘with the following exception.’ Get it?

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By PatrickHenry, July 30, 2011 at 7:33 pm Link to this comment

Lew,

If you can’t take it, don’t dish it out.


Prove that it isn’t so.

 


What a moronic statement.

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By Lew Ciefer, July 30, 2011 at 9:05 am Link to this comment

By PatrickHenry, July 29 at 6:32 pm

History is hindsight. If you haven’t learned that in your self proclaimed 7 decades, you haven’t learned anything.

History is not hindsight. We can make decisions, comments, and judgements, etc. based on the hindsight we develop from looking back at the past, at historical events.

You just keep attacking me. Prove that it isn’t so. And if it is so why the hell do you jump on me? What’s the real beef that you’ve got with me? Let’s have it.

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By PatrickHenry, July 29, 2011 at 6:32 pm Link to this comment

Lew,

History proves every word as well as the conclusion true. It is not hindsight

History is hindsight.

If you haven’t learned that in your self proclaimed 7 decades, you haven’t learned anything.

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By Lew Ciefer, July 29, 2011 at 1:24 pm Link to this comment

By PatrickHenry, July 28 at 3:32 pm

Sweeping generalizations based on 70 years of external experiences varies per person, commenting on the rise and fall of governments is hindsight and dependent on your beliefs, arbitrary.

There are no sweeping generalizations. There is nothing dependent on my beliefs. History proves every word as well as the conclusion true. It is not hindsight. It is a study of human history. All governments, including those in existence presently, grow increasing worse (that means over time) for the majorities (that’s those who produce, who labor) who are coerced to support it (governments compel, force, under threats of imprisonment, death and the forfeiture of all wealth, the producers to pay increasingly larger percentages of the cost of government) which enhances the fortunes of the much smaller in number ruling elite which compose, control, and manipulate government and legislation for their benefit which is almost always and without fail contrary to the best interests of the majority who produces and pays for said governmental system. All governments are parasitical; they’re the type of parasite that eventually kills its host.

If you still do not understand, I would suggest you go to school. And please remove that ‘V’ avatar. You disgrace it as you do the memory of the real Patrick Henry.

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By PatrickHenry, July 28, 2011 at 3:32 pm Link to this comment

Lew, it has to be understandable to be refuted.

Sweeping generalizations based on 70 years of external experiences varies per person, commenting on the rise and fall of governments is hindsight and dependent on your beliefs, arbitrary.

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By Lew Ciefer, July 28, 2011 at 12:26 pm Link to this comment

By PatrickHenry, July 27 at 4:49 pm

Now there’s some real rocket science for ya, I guess it is based on the principle that light is followed by darkness which is followed by more light. A real thinking man.


No P.H., that’s not rocket science. It’s a personal hypothesis—based on almost 70 years of experience and expressed in a single sentence—of ALL human governments. You are free to challenge it and if you’re of a mind to, simply gather you’re evidence to the contrary and have at it.

Man in general is a thinking being, thus the term Homo sapiens. The difference is that some Homo sapiens think one hell of a lot better than others. We two make a perfect example of proficient thinking (me) and one that utilizes his brain only insofar as that which is required to parrot ideological talking points of one’s masters (you).

If you want to talk science ... the universe is expanding and the light which does exist is due to the reactions taking place in objects of mass such as our star, the sun. In many billions of years all the energy sources that produce light will have been used up and there will only be darkness. Most of the universe, despite what you see and feel, is extremely cold and dark. It’s empty, that’s why it’s called ‘space.’ So how will light follow darkness unless this universe is cyclical? That is to say that it constantly expands and contracts—which is a theory, if I’m not mistaken, that is losing popularity in the science world.

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By PatrickHenry, July 27, 2011 at 4:49 pm Link to this comment

“All governments grow increasingly worse for those coerced to support it and increasingly better for those few that compose and control and manipulate it for their benefit.”—Lew Ciefer

Now there’s some real rocket science for ya, I guess it is based on the principle that light is followed by darkness which is followed by more light.

A real thinking man.

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By Lew Ciefer, July 27, 2011 at 9:56 am Link to this comment

By RayLan, July 26 at 7:15 pm

Obviously the fact that followed the statement that you are in denial.

Nothing about your dribble is obvious other than it is mostly incoherent outside your mind. If what you wrote was comprehensible I wouldn’t have had to ask for clarification and I wouldn’t be struggling with this latest round of America-hating tripe.

By RayLan, July 26 at 7:15 pm

The US has butchered millions and spawned ‘indescribable human suffering’ throughout its illustrious history.

Some details of what you’re attempting to say here would help. I don’t know what I’m dealing with; can you calm down and write what it is that you have in your mind?

By RayLan, July 26 at 7:15 pm

Nobody cares because they weren’t Caucasion humans.

Apparently someone did care because you’re here bitching about whatever it was that the U.S. did. I’d bet good money on your being wrong and that many did care, especially all those millions of whom you speak.

By RayLan, July 26 at 7:15 pm

It was multi-cultural atrocity - so naturally you don’t see it as important.”

What was? How is it possible for me to judge something as important or not if I don’t know what the hell you’re talking about?

By RayLan, July 26 at 7:15 pm

What do you need to piece it together?

I need to know what the hell you’re talking about. Have you a dictionary? If you do, please look up the word ‘details.’ How about a few dates, names of countries, peoples, events, etc.?

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By RayLan, July 26, 2011 at 7:15 pm Link to this comment

@Lew
“What denial?”

Obviously the fact that followed the statement that you are in denial.
Namely - “The US has butchered millions and spawned ‘indescribable human suffering’ throughout its illustrious history. Nobody cares because they weren’t Caucasion humans. - It was multi-cultural atrocity - so naturally you don’t see it as important.”
What do you need to piece it together? Denial keeps your comprehension incoherent.

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By Lew Ciefer, July 26, 2011 at 1:40 pm Link to this comment

By grokker, July 25 at 9:38 pm

Does your disdain for multiculturalism extend to the corporate version, globalism, where the Marxist/Socialist God - the state - extends privileges (welfare) to favored segments of the business civilization (monopolists)in return for political expediency that it does not extend to others (99% of everyone else)?

That’s not multiculturalism. What you’ve just described is neo-mercantilism, what many today call fascism. Whatever label you prefer you can rest assured that I maintain as much disdain for it too.

The Ruling Elite is in a constant state of flux. It is not just a group of easily identifiable super wealthy individuals. It consists of humans AND the institutions—public, corporate, and private—through which they exercise and maintain their power. The groups of people are never the same due to mortality, fortunes won and lost, and elections, etc. Institutions aren’t stagnant either, they are modified, they morph, old ones are sometimes discarded and new ones created. Then there’s the henchmen class who do the dirty work because of the privileged lives they obtain in doing their masters bidding. Some, like the military, are extremely powerful parts of both the Ruling Elite and the henchman class.

The Founding Fathers of the U.S. warned all who would give ear about the dangers of corporations. Jefferson even cautioned against the legal fiction of corporate personhood. Early Americans distrusted all corporations and demanded they be well regulated. It’s during and after the Civil War that corporations were able to break many of the chains that bound them.

Like most other human institutions, the corporate charter, which was initiated to serve society, has come full circle and is now its master.

Homo sapiens are stupid.

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By Lew Ciefer, July 26, 2011 at 1:38 pm Link to this comment

By RayLan, July 26 at 3:15 am

The denial continues.
The US has butchered millions and spawned ‘indescribable human suffering’ throughout its illustrious history. Nobody cares because they weren’t Caucasion humans. - It was multi-cultural atrocity - so naturally you don’t see it as important.

What denial? And be specific. Can you try to clam down and write something coherently?

Be careful what you wish for. Who will fill all those beggars’ cups in the hands of all those Islamic paradises, the Jewish paradise, and those others nations filled with the Left’s superior virtued oppressed from the African continent should the U.S. fall?

No nation, state, or country is perfect. They’re all guilty of one thing or another. But the proof of the pudding is in the eating; now tell me why all emigration stats show massive immigration from Asian, Middle Eastern, and African continent Islamic paradises to Great Satan nations of the West.

Can you point me to any history where citizens of Western democracies fled in tens and thousands their homelands to any communist, socialist or Islamic paradise? I’m particularly interested in cases that because of the number of fleeing citizens the government found it necessary to shoot any citizen attempting to escape in order to discourage others.

Try not to disappear like Palestinian Boy and that Sinbad dude. Grow a f—king pair and answer!

“All governments grow increasingly worse for those coerced to support it and increasingly better for those few that compose and control and manipulate it for their benefit.”—Lew Ciefer

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By Lew Ciefer, July 26, 2011 at 1:35 pm Link to this comment

By screamingpalm, July 25 at 11:08 pm

I would just like to point out that this is very wrong. The reason so many suffered was from totalitarianism- which had nothing to do with Marxism at all.

Wrong.

“Marxism was a mobilizing theory designed to destroy democracy and prepare the way for an enlightened elite to take power.”—Kenneth Minogue

That’s totalitarianism.

“In this sense, the theory of the Communists may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property.”—Karl Marx

That’s totalitarianism.


“There is only one way to kill capitalism - by taxes, taxes, and more taxes.—Karl Marx

That’s totalitarianism.

“The whole gospel of Karl Marx can be summed up in a single sentence: Hate the man who is better off than you are. Never under any circumstances admit that his success may be due to his own efforts, to the productive contribution he has made to the whole community. Always attribute his success to the exploitation, the cheating, the more or less open robbery of others. Never under any circumstances admit that your own failure may be owing to your own weakness, or that the failure of anyone else may be due to his own defects - his laziness, incompetence, improvidence, or stupidity.”—Henry Hazlett

That’s the reason for hard multiculturalism and political correctness.

“A socialist, carrying a red flag, marched through the gates of heaven. To hell with rank!’ he shouted. ‘All men are equal here.’ Just then the late Karl Marx turned the corner and came into view, meditatively stroking his whiskers. At once the socialist fell upon his knees and touched his forehead to the dust. ‘O Master! He cried. ‘O Master, Master, Master!”—H.L. Mencken

That’s you! smile

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By Lew Ciefer, July 26, 2011 at 1:30 pm Link to this comment

By grokker, July 25 at 5:47 pm

Lew, you and GRYM are wrong to assume that I am a progressive. I loathe even the inference. I’m also not pro - Islamic by any stretch of the imagination. I am an anti-statist if anything. You spew your share of hateful rhetoric in your posts. I, at least, have the integrity to use the word “hate” in describing how I think about control freaks, political and religious.

I apologize if I gave you the impression that I thought you a member of the Left. I was not necessarily associating you with them.

What hateful rhetoric do I spew? The truth?

You admitted to hating people. I hate ‘isms.’ Hating is a natural part of life and I respect your honesty. After nearly 7 decades on this planet I can honestly tell you that there are probably only two individuals that I might—and I stress might—be able to say that I hate. Hate, to me, is a very powerful emotion and I don’t see how anyone can truly ‘hate’ for very long. Are you sure you don’t ‘resent.’?

I haven’t promoted any violence by one group against any other group. I’ve simply stated that Christians and native majorities should UNITE against what I see as a threat to Western liberal civilization. Politicians will go in whatever direction the wind blows. They’re spineless and unprincipled. If Christians and native majorities unite they may be able to reverse a lot of the damage done without violence. Christians—IMO— are the one group capable of forming a strong cohesive unit that can push back with enough force to halt the insane multiculturalist/PC socialism that has taken control of Western civilization. The Left knows this and that’s one reason why we see such anti-Christian bias in the West.

If those who wish to destroy our way of life can unite against Christians and native majorities why can’t Christians and native majorities unite against their enemy? I haven’t advocated violence but sometimes you find yourself between a rock and hard place; better to be prepared. Life, even in the 21st century, is still about survival. And to me the quality of life is worth fighting for.

What I apparently failed to convey, is that if there is nothing but Scylla and Charybdis better to do as Odysseus did. I’ll go with Christians rather than a communist/socialist-Islamic alliance. Better the rock of democracy than the whirlpool of arbitrary power. Western Christianity has been liberalized and the extremists are too small to amount to much despite what Christiaphobes say.

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By Mort Glickman, July 26, 2011 at 10:59 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

If not wanting Europe to become a majority Islamic population in the next few generations labels me as a racist and a Islamaphobe then I guess I am a racist and and Islamaphobe. This violent event in Norway is just another one of those examples of collateral damage from globalization. I expect many more to follow. Globalization is a bitch.

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Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, July 26, 2011 at 7:17 am Link to this comment

grokker,

Human-beings generally act in their own best interest.  The United States is no exception.  It’s still a fact that the economic engine created in the United States has saved billions of human-beings from horrific starvation and dehydration all over the globe (people on this Web space cringe when this is pointed out).

With all due respect: I noticed that both you and Ray avoided a fundamental question.

“If you would like to argue that the world would be a better place today if any one of the above (Soviet Union, Germany, Italy, Japan) had been victorious over the United States, well, feel free to put forth your best argument.” - This is not some abstract question I pose.  This is a matter of very recent human history.

With all her faults the United States is the most homogenous in all of human history.

-

Ray,

With all your perceived grievances heaped on the United States, which nation would you prefer to see as the sole remaining “super power”.  Choose one.

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By grokker, July 26, 2011 at 6:49 am Link to this comment

@Go Right Young Man -
“Consider: In very recent times the United States helped to beat back German and Italian fascism, Russian communism and Japanese militarism.  Each of the above held the goal of destroying the United States as both a competing nation and ideology.”

This is the problem with rabid belief systems and ideologies. We eventually become that which we strive to defeat. Fascism, Communism, and militarism under a laughable veneer of “democracy”. The U.S. rarely acts altruistically. Instead, it determines what it can extract from a given situation, then it constructs humanitarian theater that makes the plunder palatable by the rest of the world.

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By RayLan, July 26, 2011 at 6:37 am Link to this comment

@GRYM
Drink deep of your imperialistic Kool-Aid

The Torture Paradigm

Over the past 60 years, victims worldwide have endured the CIA’s “torture paradigm,” developed at a cost that reached $1 billion annually, according to historian Alfred McCoy in his book A Question of Torture. He shows how torture methods the CIA developed from the 1950s surfaced with little change in the infamous photos at Iraq’s Abu Ghraib prison. There is no hyperbole in the title of Jennifer Harbury’s penetrating study of the U.S. torture record: Truth, Torture, and the American Way. So it is highly misleading, to say the least, when investigators of the Bush gang’s descent into the global sewers lament that “in waging the war against terrorism, America had lost its way.”

None of this is to say that Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld et al. did not introduce important innovations. In ordinary American practice, torture was largely farmed out to subsidiaries, not carried out by Americans directly in their own government-established torture chambers. As Allan Nairn, who has carried out some of the most revealing and courageous investigations of torture, points out: “What the Obama [ban on torture] ostensibly knocks off is that small percentage of torture now done by Americans while retaining the overwhelming bulk of the system’s torture, which is done by foreigners under U.S. patronage. Obama could stop backing foreign forces that torture, but he has chosen not to do so.”

Obama did not shut down the practice of torture, Nairn observes, but “merely repositioned it,” restoring it to the American norm, a matter of indifference to the victims. “[H]is is a return to the status quo ante,” writes Nairn, “the torture regime of Ford through Clinton, which, year by year, often produced more U.S.-backed strapped-down agony than was produced during the Bush/Cheney years.”
http://dprogram.net/2009/05/21/american-amnesia-we-forget-our-atrocities-almost-as-soon-as-we-commit-them/

Likewise the history of Indonesia, the subject of this essay, is a succession of invasions and atrocities. Nevertheless the carefully planned and executed massacre of 1965, in which perhaps a million were killed, can be called a seminal escalation, one whose consequences are still being suffered.

Let me at this point what clarify what I mean by managed atrocities. Atrocities can be used politically in different ways. They can be threatened (this practice is widespread). They can be committed. Or the commission of atrocity can be directed and exploited psychologically to induce further terror among survivors.

This last stage, which I call managed atrocity, is known and taught at special U.S. military schools as part of psychological warfare or psywar. A fully managed atrocity is one in which the pretext for the exploited atrocity is developed by the managers of the atrocity itself. Not all psywar is managed atrocity. But all managed atrocity is psywar, and psywar is responsible for the seminal managed atrocities of today.3

http://www.copi.com/articles/etimorus.html

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By Go Right Young Man, July 26, 2011 at 4:24 am Link to this comment

Raylan - “The US has butchered millions and spawned indescribable human suffering’ throughout its illustrious history.”

-

Have you considered the following?

Consider: In very recent times the United States helped to beat back German and Italian fascism, Russian communism and Japanese militarism.  Each of the above held the goal of destroying the United States as both a competing nation and ideology. 

Consider: The United States is the only nation, in all of human history, that would completely destroyed an enemy only to turn around and expend its own labor and national treasure to rebuild the defeated and leave them to their own sovereignty.

Consider: In the past 80 years the economic engine of the United States has lifted billions of human-beings out of horrific abject poverty.  Literally billions of human-beings have been saved from excruciating starvation and dehydration due to the efforts of the United States.

Consider: The United Nations has estimated that the United States’ Millennium Challenge of the past decade has saved the lives of 50 million living and breathing human-beings in Africa.

If you would like to argue that the world would be a better place today if any one of the above had been victorious over the United States, well, feel free to put forth your best argument.

Never Forget That The U.S. Does Not Reside In A Vacuum.

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By PatrickHenry, July 26, 2011 at 3:16 am Link to this comment

This event has zionista handprints all over it.

Anders, a zionist nutjob, atypical of the zionist mindset of irrational hatred of all things muslim.

It wouldn’t be the first time they put a ‘hit’ on Norway or the people who choose to live there.

Remember Lillehammer?

http://theintelhub.com/2011/07/25/mossad-involved-in-assassination-in-norway-before-the-lillehammer-affair/

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By RayLan, July 26, 2011 at 3:15 am Link to this comment

@Lew
“” it has murdered more human beings and cause more ruined lives and indescribable human suffering than traditional religion was ever able to accomplish.”

The denial continues. We are in a totalitarian government - a corporate capitalist totalitarianism.
The US has butchered millions and spawned ‘indescribable human suffering’ throughout its illustrious history. Nobody cares because they weren’t Caucasion humans. - It was multi-cultural atrocity - so naturally you don’t see it as important.

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By screamingpalm, July 25, 2011 at 11:52 pm Link to this comment

By Robespierre115, July 25 at 12:28 am
Pretty ironic you quoted Napoleon considered he reestablished the Catholic church in France.

Not really, he was a very shrewd politician and knew that religion was a useful tool in crowd control in a volitile period of French history. Any of his famous quotes follow along the same strikingly blunt flavor:

A leader is a dealer in hope.

A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon.

If I had to choose a religion, the sun as the universal giver of life would be my god.

Men are moved by two levers only: fear and self interest.

A man cannot become an atheist merely by wishing it.

The surest way to remain poor is to be an honest man.

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By screamingpalm, July 25, 2011 at 11:08 pm Link to this comment

@Lew Ciefer:

You equate Marxism/Socialism with totalitarianism and say: ” it has murdered more human beings and cause more ruined lives and indescribable human suffering than traditional religion was ever able to accomplish.”

I would just like to point out that this is very wrong. The reason so many suffered was from totalitarianism- which had nothing to do with Marxism at all. Perhaps you can blame Marx for not being specific enough, or leaving loopholes to allow this to happen, but the very same circumstances can happen with an abusive far-right government. One that we are headed towards with every Republican attempting to extend the powers of the Executive Branch.

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By grokker, July 25, 2011 at 9:38 pm Link to this comment

@Lew Ciefer Does your disdain for multiculturalism extend to the corporate version, globalism, where the Marxist/Socialist God - the state - extends privileges (welfare) to favored segments of the business civilization (monopolists)in return for political expediency that it does not extend to others (99% of everyone else)?

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By grokker, July 25, 2011 at 7:22 pm Link to this comment

Actually, GRYM, I was referring to some of Lew’s posts rather than yours in my last comment. Your points, though, are well taken. Thanks.

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By Go Right Young Man, July 25, 2011 at 6:33 pm Link to this comment

grokker,

If you revisit my comments you’ll see that I never do assume you to be progressive.  I thought your description of ideological extremism/religion to be, in general, on the mark.

I take exception to your characterizing what I write as words of hatred.  I am one of the few here who will go to great lengths to hold a civil and polite dialog.  Anyone with cordial intentions will always, unfailingly, receives the same from me. - I have also never once tried to tell someone that they’re stupid for not seeing the world as I do.

I can understand how you may see my words as rooted in hate if it’s what you’ve come expect from this site.  Hatred, true hatred and an insipid bigotry, is rampant here.  For that I have little patience.

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By grokker, July 25, 2011 at 5:47 pm Link to this comment

Lew, you and GRYM are wrong to assume that I am a progressive. I loathe even the inference. I’m also not pro - Islamic by any stretch of the imagination. I am an anti-statist if anything. You spew your share of hateful rhetoric in your posts. I, at least, have the integrity to use the word “hate” in describing how I think about control freaks, political and religious.

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By Go Right Young Man, July 25, 2011 at 3:52 pm Link to this comment

C-Span
Future of Christians in Egypt
July 22, 2011

Report Video Issue

Commission on Security and Coop. in Europe
The Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe, also known as the U.S. Helsinki Commission, held a hearing on the plight of Christians in Egypt and the political future of the country.

2 hours, 46 minutes | 951 Views

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By Go Right Young Man, July 25, 2011 at 3:32 pm Link to this comment

Arabian Sinbad,

Your are free, of course, to refer to yourself in any way you wish.  I would like to point out again, however, that your chosen nom de guerre is highly offensive to Arabs.

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By Go Right Young Man, July 25, 2011 at 3:19 pm Link to this comment

gerard, “Looks like about time to study the fundamental principles and tactics of non-violence here at Truthdig. Step One:  Stop the hate.”

-

My hope is to see you make this an issue more often.  Particularly when it comes from those you happen to agree with ideologically.  It would be nice to see you take a firm stand with some consistency.

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By Go Right Young Man, July 25, 2011 at 3:11 pm Link to this comment

grokker, - “I maintain a hate-filled posture toward evangelicals of all stripes, christian and muslim because they are constantly in our faces, trying to tell us how to live, what to think, and always trying to get their slimy influence into government, as well as proselytizing around the world as hypocrites trying to help the poor.”

-

With great precision you just described how the majority of contemporary American’s feel about Progressive-ism. - Always in your face, always telling people what to think, how to speak and how to live, always trying to get their influence into an ever growing government, as well as proselytizing around the world as hypocrites trying to help the poor. - I have to agree with Lew in this point.  To the most ardent Progressives this is a highly emotional and passionate form of religion.

-

How many times have we all seen this common but extreme sentiment on this Web space?  “I don’t agree with anything you’ve written and that makes you completely stupid!!

See what I mean?  See how sad?  This site is rampant, infested really, with small-minded bigotry and hate for those unlike themselves. All wrapped in a cloak of “peaceful and inclusive” super-human (demigod-like) “intelligence”.

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By Lew Ciefer, July 25, 2011 at 12:55 pm Link to this comment

By grokker, July 25 at 8:09 am

Sorry to burst your bubble Lew….. I maintain a hate-filled posture toward evangelicals of all stripes, christian and muslim because they are constantly in our faces, trying to tell us how to live, what to think, and always trying to get their slimy influence into government, as well as proselytizing around the world as hypocrites trying to help the poor. Just sayin’

Not bursting any bubble of mind. Only a blind man can’t see the blatant anti-Christian, extremely pro-Islamic, bias here at Truthdig and in the West. And you’ve just admitted to being a hate-filled bigot. What more is there to say?

I can’t help but laugh at Western Lefties because the most unscrupulous and deleterious evangelicals produced by Western civilization are those evangelicals of the communist/socialist totalitarian theocracy. And make no mistake about; communism/socialism is a religion and even more deadly than traditional religions with their imaginary friends in the sky. Unlike imaginary friends in the sky ‘God-The-State’ does exist and the commie/socialist version of it has murdered more human beings and cause more ruined lives and indescribable human suffering than traditional religion was ever able to accomplish. And the commie/socialist god—The State—broke all those records in about 75 years.

As for the Left’s new BBF there is simply no comparison between Western Christianity—which played a large part in western enlightenment and has been liberalized—to Islam; which more closely resembles Dark Ages’ Catholicism.  For crying out loud, I’m learning how to properly beat my wife via Islamic videos on YouTube. Name for me any Mosque with a lesbian mullah. Tell me how women, children, and homos are considered under Sharia. There is nothing that proves more the hypocrisy and deceptive aims of the Left than its alliance with Islam.

There is a systemic persecution and targeted discrimination against Christians, Christianity, and native majorities (Whites) with respect to almost every aspect of Western culture throughout the Western world. This is part and parcel of the Marxist/Socialist dogma known as multiculturalism where the Marxist/Socialist God—The State—extends privileges called ‘rights’ to favored segments of society, for reasons of political expediency, that it does not extend too others.

The aforementioned is made possible due to the very subtle but portentous difference between the theocratic totalitarianism known as Marxism/Socialism and representative republicanism. In representative republicanism all are equal under the law; in Marxist/Socialist theocratic totalitarianism all are equal under the law but some are more equal than others.

In the U.S. the last hope—IMO—to throw off the multiculturalist, political correctness iron yoke of slavery from our necks is the many different factions of Christianity uniting under a common banner and pushing back against this insidious State run by criminals and incompetent social-workers who want to control every aspect of our lives.

With regards to your anxiousness about hypocrisy of caring for the poor:

What’s more hypocritical than a 21st century Marie Antoinette without a waist and a derriere as wide as an Abrams tank gorging on taxpayer provided 2,000 calorie lunches while telling others to eat carrots? Just sayin’ smile

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By Lew Ciefer, July 25, 2011 at 12:51 pm Link to this comment

By Arabian Sinbad, July 25 at 10:17 am

Your call upon your Christian fanatic murderers to buy real swords to fight both liberals and Muslims shows your true color thought-terrorism, which in time will translate into real terrorism.

Project much Sinbad?

I didn’t call upon Christian fanatic murderers. I urged all Christians, the backbone of American society, to wake up and smell the coffee. I urge them to unite against an evil alliance determined to destroy Western liberal civilization.

Using your same logic about thought-terrorism we can now condemn so many Islamists that we’ll have to build thousands of prisons to put them in.

The Left is using Muslims like two-dollar whores Sinbad. But then Islam is using the Left like two-dollar whores also. It’s a marriage made in hell. 

By Arabian Sinbad, July 25 at 10:17 am

Making my own rough estimate, the enlightened liberals of the world, , you call the left, and the Muslims of the word constitute at least 90% of humanity. Thus, what you’re suggesting, en essence, is a call to your fanatic minority to declare an open terrorist war on the majority of humanity!

Goodness gracious! Is that all you can come up with? Have you got a lot to learn.

I didn’t call for any war Sinbad. As for terrorist or not that depends on who ultimately wins and gets to write history. It’s not the number of people, it’s the determination, technological ability and a helluva lot of luck.

I use liberal in its traditional sense Sinbad. Enlightenment came out of the Middle Ages. Christianity, despite all its many failures, played a part in that. Many of the great minds of the enlightenment were Christians and most—if not all—were probably educated in Christian universities.

You err in counting on your new BFF on the Left. They will not back you. The Left leadership is comprised of mostly intellectual self-appointed arrogant morons. They are the people that decry the evils of capitalism while nursing their inches thick portfolios. They’re the people that live in guarded Ivory Towers encouraging others to go out and fight. They’re like Dugout Doug; they sit in bunkers after having confiscated foods and medicines from hospitals and phone friends to buy stocks when they should be in field leading the troops to battle.

By Arabian Sinbad, July 25 at 10:17 am

Good luck with that! It seems you’re, en essence, calling upon your fellow thought-terrorists to become martyrs in the cause of what you idiotically call “Western Liberal Civilization”!

Wrong! I would never call on any of my allies to become martyrs. I want them to survive.

Now I’m an idiot? That shows just how close to the truth I am. Western liberal society is why you can comment. Western liberal society is why you can go to a dentist and save a tooth, painlessly, rather than have three of your friends hold you down while a theocrat jerks your rotting tooth out with a pair of pliers.

I can’t get Palestinian Boy to answer this question; perhaps you have a pair and will.

Why do Muslims emigrate from Islamic paradises to Great Satan nations?

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By gerard, July 25, 2011 at 11:37 am Link to this comment

Looks like about time to study the fundamental principles and tactics of non-violence here at Truthdig. Step One:  Stop the hate.

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By OzarkMichael, July 25, 2011 at 11:13 am Link to this comment

But a more basic question is this: To what degree do the growing anti-Islamic views held by tens (if not hundreds) of millions of “decent” Europeans, folks who would never consider themselves right-wing or racist though they might chuckle at the barroom joke above, contribute to what could be even more horrifying acts to come?

As far as the joke was concerned, I did not find it funny. Nor have i ever heard a joke like that anyway. Not in emails or in conversation.

But as far as the gist of the quote above, i have to draw the line there. Certainly i feel bad about what happened in Norway. i feel bad when anyone is hurt or persecuted, even if it is people i disagree with.

But even for their sake i cannot let this pass. I draw the line at any attempt by the Left(or the Right for that matter) to silence dissent, and certainly wont go along with the author who seeks to establish a rationale for censoring inconvenient ideas, or making certain ideas into a thought crime.

However, it is a Truthdig tradition, taking one man’s guilt and using that to impugn all conservative people, thereby hoping to shame us all into silence.

Sorry, but I do not accept your muzzle. Not under any condition.

Really, the muzzle must be thrown down and stomped upon with defiance, and the whole affair needs to be transformed into an unpleasant experience for you Leftists so you dont keep trying to do this. We(I take the liberty to speak for conservatives) need to nip this in the bud. 

In the face of an attempt to silence criticism, it is all the more urgent to speak out clearly, to deal with problems honestly, which usually results in being called ‘racist’ or ‘Islamophobic’ or ‘fascist’... but apparently now it also means to risk being blamed for terror attacks. 

Nevertheless, silence is not an option. i have opposed and will oppose any attempt to make it illegal to criticize any religion, or illegal to criticize any group of people, or to criticize government policies.

Free speech, free thought. isnt that the constant refrain here? Because there isnt enough of it? Isnt that what you wring your hands over and claim to desire?

Yes, but only for yourselves, only for the causes that you support.

If that isnt hypocrisy i dont know what is.

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By RayLan, July 25, 2011 at 10:58 am Link to this comment

@Lew
” wouldn’t give it much thought. The multiculturalist, PC, Left in the West has always maintained a hate-filled, discriminatory posture toward Christians and Christianity; especially evangelicals because they tend to be—thus vote—conservative. “
Here we go with the double-twist gambit so knee-jerk of the Right - Hating hate is NOT hatred any more than sending murderers to jail is hatred.
When the protaganist of ‘conservative’ bigotry and intolerance plays the victim - it’s just too funny - however disturbing.

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By Roger, July 25, 2011 at 10:41 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

With the growing number of Muslim immigrants in Europe, it was only a matter of
time before they became the new Jews in Europe, and the subject of hate
campaigns.

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By GoyToy, July 25, 2011 at 10:32 am Link to this comment

Wow! Didn’t realize so many Americans know Arabic. But I guess they do when I see so many using words like “jihadists,” “sharia,” etc. Amazing!

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By Arabian Sinbad, July 25, 2011 at 10:17 am Link to this comment

By Lew Ciefer, July 25 at 8:00 am

“You Christians had better wake up. It’s time to sell your coat and buy a sword – a real sword not a metaphorical one. The two—Islam and the Left—are united thinking each has the other fooled. Communism/Socialism and Islam are not compatible. They are allied much in the same way that the U.S. and Russia were allied in WWII. They are allied against Western liberal civilization. It’s a marriage of convenience. Should they prevail against Christianity and Western civilization, they’re going to quickly turn against each other and I don’t think many doubt who the victor will be. I, unfortunately, won’t be around to see it.

Christians are—IMO—the last refuge of hope to save Western liberal civilization.
===================================================
Your call upon your Christian fanatic murderers to buy real swords to fight both liberals and Muslims shows your true color thought-terrorism, which in time will translate into real terrorism.

Making my own rough estimate, the enlightened liberals of the world, , you call the left, and the Muslims of the word constitute at least 90% of humanity. Thus, what you’re suggesting, en essence, is a call to your fanatic minority to declare an open terrorist war on the majority of humanity!

Good luck with that! It seems you’re, en essence, calling upon your fellow thought-terrorists to become martyrs in the cause of what you idiotically call “Western Liberal Civilization”!

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By Queenie, July 25, 2011 at 9:13 am Link to this comment

grokker: Bravo!

May I add I, too, maintain a hate filled posture towards all evangelicals because their end game is the destruction of the planet in a horror-filled fantasy they call Armageddon. They are insane.

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By grokker, July 25, 2011 at 8:09 am Link to this comment

Sorry to burst your bubble Lew….. I maintain a hate-filled posture toward evangelicals of all stripes, christian and muslim because they are constantly in our faces, trying to tell us how to live, what to think, and always trying to get their slimy influence into government, as well as proselytizing around the world as hypocrites trying to help the poor. Just sayin’

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By Lew Ciefer, July 25, 2011 at 8:04 am Link to this comment

@ Robespierre115, July 24 at 6:15 pm
“Capitalist society is puking up the undigested barbarism, such is the physiology of National Socialism.”- Leon Trotsky.

Wasn’t Yugoslavia a part of that communist paradise known as the former U.S.S.R.?

How many millions were PUKED up in only 75 years under the black boots of Comrades Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, and the eternal president Kim Il-sung? In excess of 110 million, wasn’t it? Even that fool Trotsky got his just deserts. Wasn’t it an ice ax to his fat head?

Is there anything better than commies and socialists killing other commies and socialists? No, say I!

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By Lew Ciefer, July 25, 2011 at 8:00 am Link to this comment

@ christian96, July 24 at 4:35 pm

I wouldn’t give it much thought. The multiculturalist, PC, Left in the West has always maintained a hate-filled, discriminatory posture toward Christians and Christianity; especially evangelicals because they tend to be—thus vote—conservative.

The Left has, recently, found a new BBF in Islam. The problem is that Islam presents the Left with a very big problem. It exposes the Left’s hypocrisy about professed ideals by forcing the Left to turn a blind eye at Islam’s treatment of women, children, and homosexuals, human rights, class, etc. Then there’s the 40+ years of Islamist terrorism perpetrated on the civilized world which is a constant source of embarrassment.

Any act by an individual or group that can be associated with the political right or Christian evangelicalism is immediately jumped on as if to the Left two wrongs make right. Remember the shooting in Tucson? The press went wild until it was revealed that the nut was a liberal. So far it appears that the Norwegian acted alone albeit he’s now claiming that there are two more cells. One man cells? He’s probably a nut. But it doesn’t matter, native majorities are fed up with all this multiculturalist and PC bullshit and they are going to push back.

You Christians had better wake up. It’s time to sell your coat and buy a sword – a real sword not a metaphorical one. The two—Islam and the Left—are united thinking each has the other fooled. Communism/Socialism and Islam are not compatible. They are allied much in the same way that the U.S. and Russia were allied in WWII. They are allied against Western liberal civilization. It’s a marriage of convenience. Should they prevail against Christianity and Western civilization, they’re going to quickly turn against each other and I don’t think many doubt who the victor will be. I, unfortunately, won’t be around to see it.

Christians are—IMO—the last refuge of hope to save Western liberal civilization.

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By sharonsj, July 25, 2011 at 7:42 am Link to this comment

Ralph, you say Israel is the most anti-Arab nation in the world But the reverse is absolutely true, that all the Arab nations would destroy Israel if given the chance.  The problem is that Arabs can’t do it, so they go after individual Jews living in other countries.  In fact, I believe several of the Muslim fundamentalists have issued decrees, urging their followers to do just that.  As for Muslim violence, check out a site called TheReligionofPeace.com.

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By RayLan, July 25, 2011 at 6:17 am Link to this comment

@spooky
Now give credit where credit is due - the unfailing capacity of religion to bypass critical thought. Look at the bloody history of every religion including Buddhism.

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By Spooky-43, July 25, 2011 at 4:59 am Link to this comment

The role of religion is highly overestimated in this tragedy.  Anti-Christians and Anti-Islamists will beat the religion horse to death, because that is the motivation of their intolerant politics, but it really was not the motivation of the killer.  He did not kill for the glory of Jesus Christ or the church, as far as I can understand it so far.

He killed, in his perverted mind, to save his culture, which may have been incidentally some weak brand of Christianity.  But it could have been voodooism for all it matters.

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By PatrickHenry, July 25, 2011 at 3:28 am Link to this comment

Seems this bat shit loon Anders is nothing more than a sayanim.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/215928

I understand he attended some reich-wing training at some ‘christian’ camp in Minnesota run by Michelle Bachmann’s husband.

It figures.

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By RayLan, July 25, 2011 at 2:33 am Link to this comment

So Norway is now a ‘safe haven’ for terrorists - oh yes - and France, and Pakistan along with all the Arab Countries - we should deploy troops and occupy all such potential threats - cause, let me see , how does that go…oh right - if we fight them there - they can’t come here. We’ll be bankrupt but at least we will have promoted democracy. Who knew that all the while it was those darn French, and now the treacherous Norwegians.

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By christian96, July 25, 2011 at 1:45 am Link to this comment

I would like to thank the folks who responded to
my question, “What is a right-wing Christian
Fundamentalist?”  I decided to approach the
phrase word by word using my small Webster’s
Dictionary.  For “right-wing” Webster uses the
following words, “The more conservative or reactionary section of a political party or
group.”  Well, I was stumped right out of the gate.
What does “conservative” mean? So, it’s back to
Webster’s Dictionary. Conservative means, (1)
“tending to conserve,” (2) “tending to preserve
established institutions; opposed to change.”
Webster deines “Christian” as “having the qualities
taught by Jesus Christ, as love, kindness, humility, etc.” So, a right-wing Christian must be someone
who wants to conserve the qualities taught by Jesus
Christ.  That leaves out the Catholics and the
majority of Protestants.  Jesus kept and taught
the Sabbath was from dusk Friday until dusk Saturday.  In the 4th century AD the Catholic leaders got together and changed the Sabbath to
Sunday.  They also added Christmas and Easter.
No where in the Bible does it say to worship the
day of someone’s birth.  However, the Bible does
mention the heathen keeping a birthday.  It was
King Herod’s birthday.  His wife hated John the
Baptist because John had been getting on her nerves. She left Herod’s brother Philip and married Herod.
John the Baptist kept telling them they had committed adultry and many other sins.  Herod’s
wife ask him to have John arrested.  Herod did so.
Herod not only married his brother’s wife but he
had the hots for his teenage daughter-in-law.  During his birthday party Herod ask the girl to
dance for him.  He promised to give the girl anything she wanted.  It’s amazing what alcohol and
lust will do to a man.  Herod’s wife’s called her
daughter aside and informed her to ask for the head
of John the Baptist when she was through dancing.
That’s exactly what happened.  There is another place in the Bible where a birthday is mentioned.
I think it had to do with a Pharoah in Egypt.  But
if the Bible does not mention keeping birthdays
it does have something to say about death.  Ecclesiastes 7:1 reads, “the day of one’s death
is better than the day of one’s birth.”  The word
“Easter” is only mentioned once in the Bible but
it was a mistranslation.  The word was acutally
“passover.”  So, the Catholic Church changed the
Sabbath and added Christmas and Easter. When Martin Luther broke away from the Catholic Church he still kept the Sunday Sabbath.  He also kept Christmas
and Easter as did the multidtude of protestants
that followed him.  Since the Catholic Church and
majority of Protestants have failed to keep the
principles taught by Jesus it would be safe, according to Webster, to say they are not conservative Christians.  Since Jesus also taught
people not to kill one another it is fair to conclude the fellow in Norway who killed the people is NOT a “right-wing Christian.”  I’m not even going to deal with the word “Fundamentalist.”  I’m running out of words.  Now, I have a better idea of what a
“right-wing Christian” is and IS NOT! I could get
into the area of quantity of sins.  Do you have
to keep the principles of Jesus 100 per cent during a day to be a “conservative Christian?”  How about 95 or 90 per cent?  I’ll get into quantities later.

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By Robespierre115, July 25, 2011 at 12:28 am Link to this comment

Pretty ironic you quoted Napoleon considered he reestablished the Catholic church in France.

As for “jihad” and Crusades, if Christianity had never existed the monarchies of Europe would have found another excuse to try and conquer swathes of the Middle East, loot the region and expand their power. You don’t need religion to be greedy. And before there were “Jihadist” groups there was quite enough violence in the Middle East to cast off the yoke of colonialism, the armed movements in Algeria and Palestine were already using bombs and AK-47s when they were socialist, secular movements.

Religion or whatever other idea is around simply provide fuel for deeply human passions and grievances.

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By screamingpalm, July 24, 2011 at 11:27 pm Link to this comment

Napoleon Bonaparte said it best:

Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich.

Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet.

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By screamingpalm, July 24, 2011 at 11:14 pm Link to this comment

Perhaps the same conditions would exist, but there would be no empowering beliefs to recreate the Knights Templar ready to put your life on the line and go to heaven with just capitalism. :D

Besides, who’s to say how the world could have turned out without crusades or jihads?

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By Robespierre115, July 24, 2011 at 10:55 pm Link to this comment

Typical post-modern crap, instead of having discussions about the social, economic and political realities which produced the tragedy in Norway, people start blaming Jesus as if the same thing wouldn’t happen if Christianity didn’t exist. You could get rid of religion and capitalism will still produce these nightmares.

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By screamingpalm, July 24, 2011 at 9:27 pm Link to this comment

It’s certainly hard to relate the same man who said something like: “if you want to be perfect in all things, sell all your possesions and give the money to the poor” with modern day “Christianty”. On the other hand, the way women are treated in the Bible, sure fits. At any rate, the dangers of organized brainwashing- errr religion- cannot be overlooked. While the MSM jumped at the chance to blame video games for what happened, they miss the true problems entirely (probably preaching to the choir here at TD).

Video games can be used for the greater good, but stories like these get no press (not enough doom and gloom I guess):
http://www.teamliquidpro.com/news/2011/05/18/tlo-streaming-marathon-starcraft-without-borders

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By diamond, July 24, 2011 at 7:30 pm Link to this comment

Heavens above, Christian96, you ask a very interesting question and the answer is that no, Jesus was not a right wing anything: Jesus was an out and out radical in complete rebellion against everything the religious conservatives stood for and they hated him for it and eventually crucified him for it. I regard Jesus as being one of the great genii in history along with Akhenaton, the Egyptian pharaoh, known as the heretic pharaoh. Akhenaton has been called the first individual and the first genius in history. They both turned religious conformity on its head and even though neither of them had any interest in conquering territory or military glory THEY are remembered while their enemies are forgotten - apart from Pontius Pilate who is only remembered because he washed his hands of Jesus’ execution and Herod because he allegedly had all those babies killed. If I had to define a right wing Christian fundamentalist I would say: usually a poorly educated sectarian bigot with violent fantasies and a feeling of divinely ordained entitlement.

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By MeHere, July 24, 2011 at 7:04 pm Link to this comment

christian96:

The man who murdered the people in Norway is a self-described “Christian
fundamentalist” who acknowledges his involvement in extreme right-wing
political work.  Moreover, he has said “his actions were necessary.”  No one with a dislike for Christians has been spinning phrases.

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By diamond, July 24, 2011 at 7:00 pm Link to this comment

All very well and good Lando but this shooter in Norway is reportedly fanatically pro-Zionist as well as fanatically anti-Muslim. Which makes sense. The only thing he can’t claim to be is a Christian but that won’t stop him doing it.

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By Robespierre115, July 24, 2011 at 6:15 pm Link to this comment

“Capitalist society is puking up the undigested barbarism, such is the physiology of National Socialism.”- Leon Trotsky.

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By PatrickHenry, July 24, 2011 at 6:11 pm Link to this comment

The arabs call them crusaders and for good reason.

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By gerard, July 24, 2011 at 6:09 pm Link to this comment

Christian96:  Words are slippery and dangerous, some more than others.  When using words you always need to be careful.  People are usually not careful enough. They just throw words out into the air without thinking about their effect, good or bad. It’s calld “irresonsibility of speech.” Some people think “irresponsibility” means “freedom”, but it doesn’t.

Take a lesson from HumptyDumpty in “Through the Looking Glass” who tells Alice that “words mean what I want them to mean, no more and no less.”

Naturally Alice is puzzled by this statement.  How can she know what he means words to mean without getting into his head?  Alice, being only seven or eight years old, thinks words mean what the dictionary says.  She is wrong. Words mean what the speakers mean—and even at that, you can’t be sure because you can only guess what is in somebody else’s head. If you know the “sommebody else” it helps. Also you can sometimes tell by the “tone of voice” or the “body language” or ... the “context.”

Some words activate more tone of voice, more body language, more context than others.  Religious words and political words are the worst.  People who take religious and political words like “right wing Christian fundamentalist” too seriously are apt
to go to war to prove they know best—a huge mistake for everybody.  Eggs break.

Sometimes people use words like that to tease other people into responding.  It’s called “baiting”, like when you put a worm on a hook to catch a fish. Try it sometime.You might end up in a whale of a lot of trouble, tryng to deal with people who “knoweth not their left hand from their right.”  Etc.

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By christian96, July 24, 2011 at 4:35 pm Link to this comment

In various sources including one article on truth-dig the fellow in Norway who carried out the terrorist
act has been described as “a right-wing Christian fundamentalist.”  Sounds like to me the people who
spin such a phrase have a particular dislike of
Christians.  Perhaps, some of the intellects on this site can define “a right-wing Christian fundamentalist.”  Was Jesus a “right-wing Christian fundamentalist?”

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By Ralph Kramden, July 24, 2011 at 4:09 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

First, as I agree with your comments, I have a deep sense of sadness. We feel the sadness when 100 of us are murdered. And I share in that. However, when NATO murders just as many DAILY, not a tear is dropped by these media types. Libya, Pakistan, Iraq. Moreover, anti-Semite also implicates Israel because Arabs are Semites. And Israel is the most anti-Arab nation in the world. I recall senator Feinstein saying, regarding terrorists and racial profiling: “You will not be looking for a blue-eyed, blonde Swede.” Apologies forthcoming Feinstein?

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