Liquor Store Larry

You don’t seem very enthused about this latest declaration from the Hamas leadership. Is it because it diminishes your argument for the justification of persecuting Palestinians, and is a diplomatic effort intended to remove an obstacle to the discussion of a two state solution?

Personally, I’m not an advocate of hugs (kiss kiss, how are you darling?) A sincere and firm handshake seems much more meaningful to me, but I do believe that people like you, who are advocates of terrorism, and have no concern for the suffering of others, need to give this concept of love a little more thought.

Forgive me for being trite, but I do believe that this question is worthy of some serious contemplation, “What’s so funny about Peace, Love and Understanding”?

I’m sorry if my previous post seemed a little harsh. I have very little tolerance for things like massacre, indiscriminate killing, torture, the killing of women, children, and the intentional killing of human beings by other human beings, by any means. I’m such a fool; I guess it’s a character flaw.

Have a nice life!

Israeli terrorists or Palestinian terrorists, they look, act and smell the same to me.

‘Hamas accepts Israel’s right to exist’

......... Woooo Hoooo, let’s have a party!!!

Thanks for the “give a terrorist a hug” rap, demonstrating yet again that “terrorists need love too”!

‘Hamas accepts Israel’s right to exist’
Jan. 21, 2010
Khaled Abu Toameh , THE JERUSALEM POST
Hamas has accepted Israel’s right to exist and would be prepared to nullify its charter, which calls for the destruction of Israel, Aziz Dwaik, Hamas’s most senior representative in the West Bank, said on Wednesday.

I will reinforce what I said; there is no, nor has there been, any danger of Israel being driven into the sea by Hamas, before or after this declaration. If Israel is, or was, going to be driven into the sea by Hamas, what has Israel been doing with the 3 billion dollars of military aid it receives annually from the U.S. A rational person might come to the conclusion that 3 billion annually, along with an estimated 200 nuclear weapons would be enough to protect Israel from the mighty Hamas. Hamas can’t even protect Palestinians from Israeli military incursions into Palestinian territory, but you’re worried about Hamas driving Israel into the sea?

Oh yeah, I almost forgot, Palestinians have been driven from their homes and homeland, and they are being prevented from having a homeland, and they are also being deprived of the basic necessities of life, but I guess that doesn’t bother you, because you’re so worried about Israel being driven into the sea and all.

Do you really want to get into a discussion about who has been guilty of terrorism?

On the night of April 9, 1948, the Irgun Zvei Leumi surrounded the village of Deir Yasin, located on the outskirts of Jerusalem. After giving the sleeping residents a 15 minute warning to evacuated, Menachem Begin’s terrorists attacked the village of 700 people, killing 254 mostly old men, women and children and wounding 300 others. Begin’s terrorists tossed many of the bodies in the village well, and paraded 150 captured women and children through the Jewish sectors of Jerusalem.

“Deir Yassin massacre was not only necessary, but without it the state of Israel could not have emerged.” Menachem Begin

But wait, there’s more,

In the exchange that followed four [Irgun] men were killed and a dozen were wounded … by noon time the battle was over and the shooting had ceased. Although there was calm, the village had not yet surrendered. The Irgun and LEHI men came out of hiding and began to `clean’ the houses. They shot whoever they saw, women and children included, the commanders did not try to stop the massacre …. I pleaded with the commander to order his men to…

Zvi Ankori, who commanded the Haganah unit that occupied Deir Yasin after the massacre, gave this statement in 1982 about the massacre, published by Davar on April 9, 1982:

“I went into 6 to 7 houses. I saw cut off genitalia and women’s crushed stomaches. According to the shooting signs on the bodies, it was direct murder.”

On and on, and so it goes…These are only a few of the many accounts of Israeli terrorism. Do a little research Bunky, you’ll see much, much more that might enlighten that bigoted little mind of yours.

Let’s talk about the thousands who were killed in Lebanon, by an admitted act of collective punishment.  Massacres, tortures, hotels destroyed, and on and on and so it goes… If you think you have some moral authority on this issue of terrorism, you’re out of your freaking mind, Bunky.

I don’t believe in war, and I’m sure we could come to a peaceful solution to any problem we might have with Latvia, unless they have oil, or land that God commanded us to conquer, rape, and pillage thousands of years ago.

Your Holy Land is smeared with blood, Bunky.

“Keep repeating words Arab terrorism, and driving the Jews into the sea.

I HATE TO CONFUSE YA BUNKY BUT “DRIVING EVERY JEW INTO THE SEA” is stated in the Hamas Charter. Jews did not invent this nor will they tolerate it. As far as Arab-Moslem terrorism, what fu**ing planet do you live on?

Moslems blow up discos in Bali, Pizza parlors in Israel, train stations in Barcelona, hotels full of Hindus in India, theatres full of hostages in Moscow, fly planes into buildings in New York, torch embassies OVER CARTOONS in Europe , blow up Buddhist antiquities in Afghanistan and shoot kneeling woman through the head in Afghani soccer stadiums, push cripples in wheelchairs off ships in the ocean, and when they run out of Jews and Christians and Hindus to murder they murder each other so naturally geniuses like you conclude the problem is Israel.

Given your sense of fairness maybe you should declare war on Latvia!

Liquor Store Larry,

Your hyperbole is typical, devious, and bears no resemblance to reality.

How about this? Stop expanding the settlements as a first step towards peace, and allow a two state solution, as previously agreed to by the Arabs.

Did you not read the quotations given you by PatrickHenry? Zionist aspirations are clear. My dictionary definition of what a Zionist is states, “A person who advocates for the establishment of a Jewish state.” Unfortunately, my dictionary does not define how big that state will be, and what will be the fate of the former inhabitants of that state.

In order to get a better understanding of Zionist, and Israeli aspirations, one only needs to read the words of their leaders and elected representatives. Not the disingenuous words they use to mollify their critics, but the words they use when they are garnering political support from their constituents.

Keep repeating words and phrases like: anti-Semitism, Arab terrorism, and driving the Jews into the sea. They will be accepted as truth, when the real truth is: Palestinians are a Semitic people, and victims of a hidden anti-Semitism, Arab terrorism would better be described as Arab retaliation (As wrong headed as that retaliation may be,) and there is no danger of the Jews being driven into the sea, but Palestinians having been, and currently being deprived of their homes, and homeland is undisputable.

Liquored up Larry

HAMAS is a creation of Israel, whose chickens have come home to roost.

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/ZER403A.html

To accept Israel as a jewish state is defining that country as the theocracy which it is.  Forget about any claims of Israel being a democratic nation as that would be a joke.  Iran has a more pluralistic society.

Time will tell as 25% of Israel is non-jew and growing, the in-breeding demonstrates a falling population and growing mental illness as indicative of posters such as yourself and Israeli government officals.

No NOT “ALL ARABS” are terrorists but Hamas is clearly a terrorist organization and it is no coincidence that Arabs were allied with Nazi Germany in WW2.

This is SOOOOO simple:

Accept that Israel, “A Jewish state” among many Muslim states is here to stay and quit dying. It is as simple as that.

The alternative is the diametric opposite. Continue trying to disguise the fact that you are the most backwards incompetents on God’s green earth in an eternal melodrama of driving every Jew into the sea and continue to die. Voila, simple!

Liquor Store Larry says,

“The Arab terrorists have gotten what they deserve and they have earned it! If they keep doing what they have been doing, they will continue getting more of what they have been getting. Maybe worse if they don’t learn!”

Spoken like a true authoritarian Fascist. Actual terrorists should be punished (brought to justice,) but clearly you believe all Arabs are terrorists and subject to your punishment. The punishment you advocate would have been condemned and prosecuted at the Nuremburg Trials.

The punishment you advocate is terrorism, and only perpetuates terrorism. You suggest that they (Arabs) need to “learn.” You, and people like you, on both sides of the issue, are the ones who need to learn, from history.

The Arab terrorists have gotten what they deserve and they have earned it! If they keep doing what they have been doing, they will continue getting more of what they have been getting. Maybe worse if they don’t learn!

Even goys like me are subject to being influenced by the myth of Jewish superiority. For a variety of reasons, those of us who object to Israeli policies tend to see Israeli leaders as being intelligent and shrewd, but morally deficient, when in reality they have been nothing more than a conglomeration of Pat Robertson types.

Bigotry is not intelligent. The Nazis were not intelligent, and Israeli leaders and their followers are not intelligent. They are disingenuous and cleverly devious; but intelligent? No.

Jews, like all peoples, have intelligent individuals within their ranks. Those intelligent individuals are opposed to Israeli policies in the Middle East.

Heckler liquor Larry is going down the diversion/sidetracking route.

Watch out for that steep cliff…NO ONE IS BUYING YOUR ORGANIZATION ZIONISM’S GARBAGE!

Keep digging in that deep stinky hole. I can’t help but laugh at your situation.

Here is one even you Neanderthals can enjoy!

By the skilful and sustained use of propaganda, one can make a people see even heaven as hell or an extremely wretched life as paradise - Adolf Hitler

By PatrickHenry, January 16 at 11:30 pm #

Liquored up Larry

The quotes are real, it is you who are a phony.

http://israeliworldapartheid.com/quotes.htm#begin

=========

PH...this liquored up heckler & hardcore racist zionist is beyond help. His head is too infected to know the truth.

~~~~~~~~~~

Heckler…liquor Larry’s Zionist’s tactics are familiar to many of the informed in the US and elsewhere.

Racist Zionists use these familiar tactics to attempt to quiet anyone who helps expose their subversive Zionist “Hasbara/propaganda”.

If that person is a gentile, they cry, “anti-semetic and/or Nazi” which is nothing more than a smoke screen to hide their deceptions.

Then they ignore the charges, hoping the information will not be given widespread distribution.

If the information/facts starts to reach too many people, they ridicule the information/facts and the person(s) giving the information.

If that doesn’t work, their next step is character assassination.

Yep…that deceptive zionist route is very much familiar here on TD and elsewhere.

Liquored up Larry

The quotes are real, it is you who are a phony.

http://israeliworldapartheid.com/quotes.htm#begin

Frau Robert, .... Those quotes are phony.

Why don’t ya just post the “Protocols of Zion”?

ROTFLMAO - enough already. Why am I arguing with a Nazi?

“Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population.”

    David Ben Gurion, quoted in The Jewish Paradox.
    by Nahum Goldmann, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1978, p. 99

“Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country.”

    Speech by David Ben-Gurion, 1938
    Quoted in “Zionism and the Palestinians” by Simha Flapan, 1979

Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate the Jews - Golda Meir

The quote by Uris was right on the money. Spin all you want but that was a spot on accurate desription of A-rab culture! Lo siento Mucho

Heckler Liquor Larry’s...quoted author…

“Leon Uris was born in Baltimore, Maryland, the son of Jewish-American parents Wolf William and Anna (Blumberg) Uris. His father, a Polish-born immigrant, was a paperhanger, then a storekeeper. William spent a year in Palestine after World War I before entering the United States. He derived his surname from Yerushalmi, meaning “man of Jerusalem.” (His brother Aron, Leon Uris’ uncle, took the name Yerushalmi) “He was basically a failure,” Uris later said of his father. “He went from failure to failure.”

Uris attended schools in Norfolk, Virginia and Baltimore, but never graduated from high school, after having failed English three times. At age seventeen, while in his senior year of high school, the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor and Uris enlisted in the United States Marine Corps. He served in the South Pacific as a radioman (in combat) at Guadalcanal, Tarawa, and New Zealand [2] from 1942 through 1945. While recuperating from malaria in San Francisco, he met Betty Beck, a Marine sergeant; they married in 1945.

Coming out of the service, he worked for a newspaper, writing in his spare time. In 1950, Esquire magazine bought an article, and he began to devote himself to writing more seriously. Drawing on his experiences in Guadalcanal and Tarawa he produced the best-selling, Battle Cry, a novel depicting the toughness and courage of U.S. Marines in the Pacific. He then went to Warner Brothers in Hollywood helping to write the movie, which was extremely popular with the public, if not the critics. [2] Later he went on to write.The Angry Hills, a novel set in war-time Greece.

As a screenwriter and newspaper correspondent, he became intensely interested in Israel. In the early 1950s, he was hired by Edward Gottlieb, an American public relations man seeking to improve Israel’s image in the United States, to write a novel about Israel’s origin that portrayed Israel in a favourable light.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Uris

“They are in no position to dictate anything.”

So, in the final analysis,  it is Israel’s military might, not justice that will decide.

I think we are in agreement about the reality in the occupied territories.

“the NY Times”? LMAO -

The bottom line is the terrorists on the West Bank and Gaza have two choices. They can acquiesce to a two state solution for once and for all or they can keep dying. When they rein in their terrorists the blockades will come down and not until. Saying the “Palestinians are standing fast” is like threatening to hit someone in the fist with your chin. They are in no position to dictate anything.

Appropriately, LSL quotes from Leon Uris’ “The Haj” about which the New York Times reviewer said:

“Whatever truth there may be in ‘‘The Haj,’’ it is lost in hyperbole. It is not even good propaganda. After struggling with the bad writing, the oversimplifications, the heavy bias, the endless round of brutality and betrayals, one is glad to get back to the familiar miseries of real life.”

 
Jerry Adler, Newsweek’s reviewer had this to say about the very quote that Larry cites:

They are Uris-Arabs, a species familiar to readers of Uris’s early epic “Exodus.” In intellect, the difference between a Uris-Arab and his camel is not great and in morality the camel wins by a furlong….

See also: Uris Exodus from Reason
Uris’ dissembling was highlighted by Time magazine:

Time Magazine reported to its readers, way back when, during the “Exodus” fever, that “Captain Yehiel Aranowicz - one-time master of the
blockade-running Israeli refugee ship `Exodus’ - reported some reservations about the best-selling (4,000,000 copies to date) novel inspired by his 1947 heroics. `Israelis,’ he said, `were pretty disappointed in the book, to put it lightly. The types that are described in it never existed in Israel. The novel is neither history nor literature.’”

January 14, 2010

A March of Folly

Only Shrinks Can Explain Israel’s Behavior

By GIDEON LEVY

“They should explain how the state prosecutor can announce his intention to expropriate more privately-owned Palestinian land at the settlement of Ofra - the “largest illegal settlement in the territories” (in the words of the defense minister’s adviser on settlement issues) - when Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, in his address at Bar-Ilan University last year, explicitly committed not to do so, and President Shimon Peres did more of the same in a meeting with Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak.

They should explain what lies behind the decision to examine annexing Highway 443, which runs through the West Bank, as Israeli territory - as a way of defeating the recent High Court of Justice ruling opening it to Palestinian motorists. How can a country that preaches the rule of law dare outfox the High Court through “bypass” laws? And how have an insignificant minority - the settlers - sown fear and managed to extort the country for so many years?”

~~~~~~~~~~~

Click on link for the rest of article:

http://www.counterpunch.org/levy01142010.html

Before I was nine I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; the tribe against the world, and all of us against the infidel - Leon Uris, ‘The Haj’

ardee, January 14 at 7:18 am #

Oddly, amidst all the fine posts defending truth and sanity from the stridency and rantings of an obvious disturbed person, that person, Liquored Up Lawrence is the best advertisement for said truth. Unintentionally of course

It is tragically funny and to watch the terrorist sympathizers dance!

Drooling again?

Ardee - I know the truth because I know the truth because I know the truth because I know the truth because I know the truth because I know the truth because I know the truth because I know the truth because I know the truth because I know the truth because -neener neener! Maybe you should have to show our driver’s license to post in here!

remember the star trek episode where kirk fries out the circuitry of a computer, which had taken control of the enterprise, with factual based logic?  kinda like watching brewerstroupe take care of mr. liquor store….

Oddly, amidst all the fine posts defending truth and sanity from the stridency and rantings of an obvious disturbed person, that person, Liquored Up Lawrence is the best advertisement for said truth. Unintentionally of course.

Speaking of crap, how you coming along with that link to the poll?

Her is the Wikipedia entry for the jackass Robert Pape:

Pape graduated summa cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa from the University of Pittsburgh in 1982[1] where he was a Harry S Truman Scholar from the state of Pennsylvania, majoring in political science, and earned his Ph.D. from the University of Chicago in 1988 in the same field. During his doctoral program he was a teaching assistant for a class taught by the high-profile realist international relations scholar John Mearsheimer. He taught international relations at Dartmouth College from 1991 to 1999 and air power strategy at the United States Air Force’s School of Advanced Airpower Studies from 1996 to 1999. Since 1999, he has taught at the University of Chicago, where he is now tenured.[1] He defines the focus of his current work as “the causes of suicide terrorism and the politics of unipolarity.”[1] After presenting preliminary data on his research into suicide terrorism in the American Political Science Review in 2003, Pape founded the Chicago Project on Security and Terrorism, which he directs. The project is funded by the Carnegie Corporation, the Pentagon’s Defense Threat Reduction Agency, the University of Chicago, and the Argonne National Laboratory.

“The claim that Hamas EVER ceased rocket attacks or even suspended them is utter crap”

In that case it is Israeli crap:

“4. An analysis of the situation on the ground indicates two distinct periods:
i) A period of relative quiet between June 19 and November 4: As of June 19,
there was a marked reduction in the extent of attacks on the western Negev population. The lull was sporadically violated by rocket and mortar shell fire, carried out by rogue terrorist organizations, in some instance in defiance of Hamas (especially by Fatah and Al-Qaeda supporters). Hamas was careful to maintain the ceasefire.”

Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center at the Intelligence Heritage & Commemoration Center Israel

I see - if you’re 16 you are old enough to blow yourself up while Mom and Dad watch their big screen and so it’s cool and you have found some jack ass who’s bogus research explains away suicide bombing so that it’s perfectly reasonable and actually a lofty goal, especially for your pre-teen. The claim that Hamas EVER ceased rocket attacks or even suspended them is utter crap and so is basically your entire post.

Fu*k the bunch of ya. This thread reads like a low IQ version of Mein Kampf.

LSL
Couple points.
The first Palestinian act of suicide terrorism followed Baruch Goldstein’s attack on the Hebron mosque which left 29 praying Muslims dead. That attack was itself suicidal.

The youngest successful Palestinian suicide bomber was 16-year-old Issa Bdeir, a high school student from the village of Al Doha, who blew himself up in a park in Rishon LeZion, killing a teenage boy and an elderly man. Where I come from, 16 year olds are capable of doing some pretty dumb things without the coercion of adults. Try Colombine for instance. This is a vastly different picture from that you try to paint.

The Coalition to Stop the Use of Child Soldiers..reported that “there was no evidence of systematic recruitment of children by Palestinian armed groups” .. Human Rights Watch, in its report entitled “Child Soldier Use”, also reported that “there was no evidence that the Palestinian Authority (PA) recruited or used child soldiers.
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2004/childsoldiers0104/9.htm

Robert Pape has researched the phenomenon of suicide terrorism thoroughly. He reports:

Over the past two years, I have collected the first complete database of every suicide-terrorist attack around the world from 1980 to early 2004. ....
This wealth of information creates a new picture about what is motivating suicide terrorism. Islamic fundamentalism is not as closely associated with suicide terrorism as many people think. The world leader in suicide terrorism is a group that you may not be familiar with: the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka…..The central fact is that overwhelmingly suicide-terrorist attacks are not driven by religion as much as they are by a clear strategic objective: to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from the territory that the terrorists view as their homeland. From Lebanon to Sri Lanka to Chechnya to Kashmir to the West Bank, every major suicide-terrorist campaign—over 95 percent of all the incidents—has had as its central objective to compel a democratic state to withdraw…..............Since suicide terrorism is mainly a response to foreign occupation and not Islamic fundamentalism.

“UNTIL the Palestinians are CAPABLE of reining in the militants among them AND have a leader who actually has control over suicide bombers”

Hamas put a stop to suicide terrorism when they decided to become a political party. They also reined in rocket attacks during the truce which Israel did not observe:

The truce, which began in June last year and was due for renewal in December, required both parties to refrain from violent action against the other. Hamas had to cease its rocket assaults and prevent the firing of rockets by other groups such as Islamic Jihad (even Israel’s intelligence agencies acknowledged this had been implemented with surprising effectiveness), and Israel had to put a stop to its targeted assassinations and military incursions. This understanding was seriously violated on 4 November, when the IDF entered Gaza and killed six members of Hamas. Hamas responded by launching Qassam rockets and Grad missiles. Even so, it offered to extend the truce, but only on condition that Israel ended its blockade. Israel refused. It could have met its obligation to protect its citizens by agreeing to ease the blockade, but it didn’t even try. It cannot be said that Israel launched its assault to protect its citizens from rockets. It did so to protect its right to continue the strangulation of Gaza’s population.

“polls that demonstrate that 70% of these so called “innocent Palestinians” believe suicide bombing is acceptable.”

Please provide a link to this information.

The Seventy Two Virgins Quiz

Liquored up Larry,

Proof is in the numbers.  Israel has been trying to wipe out all Palestinians since that pariah nation was founded.

http://www.deathmasters.com/#KING

I would gather that since most of the Palestinian children wait around to be killed in massacres by the Issi terrorists, some decide to make it a proactive death. 

If the U.S. didn’t support, Israel it would have been gone long ago.

A virtual who’s who of pro zionist Israel whitewashers.

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=50

Some other racist Israeli quotes:

http://israeliworldapartheid.com/quotes.htm#begin

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=50

Heckler…liquor Larry’s Zionist’s tactics are familiar to many of the informed in the US and elsewhere.

Racist Zionists use these familiar tactics to attempt to quiet anyone who helps expose their subversive “Hasbara/propaganda”.

If that person is a gentile, they cry, “anti-semetic and/or Nazi” which is nothing more than a smoke screen to hide their deceptions.

Then they ignore the charges, hoping the information will not be given widespread distribution.

If the information/facts starts to reach too many people, they ridicule the information/facts and the person(s) giving the information.

If that doesn’t work, their next step is character assassination.

Yep…that deceptive zionist route is very much familiar here on TD and elsewhere.

brewerstroupe - FIRST of all you seem to have IGNORED THE FACT that “THE QUOTE” as you put it, was A COMPLETE FABRICATION and BEGIN NEVER SAID IT in the first place. It is a RACIST CONCOCTED LIE. Good job and I would expect nothing less FROM you.

My remark which gave you the impression THAT I AM “targeting all Palestinians” was sarcastic because the truth is, that UNTIL the Palestinians are CAPABLE of reining in the militants among them AND have a leader who actually has control over suicide bombers WHO CARES if its “all of them” or “some of them” or “most of them”?  Typical brain dead obfuscation.  When the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor do you supposed the military was worrying about WHICH JAPANESE might NOT be bombing Pear Harbor when we planned our defense?

This is not withstanding polls that demonstrate that 70% of these so called “innocent Palestinians” believe suicide bombing is acceptable. When you hire a hit man you are guilty under the law as the guy who pulls the trigger.

Possibly THE ONLY truly INNOCENT Palestinian is the poor brainwashed kid who’s Daddy tells him “sure son, just strap this dynamite to your vest and blow yourself to kingdom come while I sit here on my fat Muslim ass rejoicing in the knowledge that even if I ask a couple more of my kids to kill themselves for a futile cause that can never be, I will still have a few kids left”.

You want to see ME act like a racist so you can feel better about your own bigotry. OK here goes - only a fuckin’ animal would allow their child to blow themselves up for any reason. Revolutionaries FIGHT WARS, they don’t send their children to die for them. Those who do are LESS THAN HUMAN, SUB-HUMAN AND BENEATH THE CONTEMPT OF HUMANS. I will go ya one EVEN better. Rather than INVENTING all these phony quotes from Jews who never said them, here is one from this JEW that I AM SAYING THIS and it’s something foreign to you, a genuine quote.

YOU will never never never see a Jew send his child out to blow him or herself up. If in fact Begin said that “only a beast on two legs” would do that, then he was spot on.

Now then - tell your baloney “war stories” in which there were tragedies all day long and assign the blame to anyone who participates. There are always tragedies in war there will be even more tragedies for the woman and children who have the misfortune of being the families of terrorists. Your selectivity does not mean sh*t.

Interesting discussion.

LSL defends Begin on the basis that the quote was aimed exclusively at “terrorists”, not the Palestinian people in general. Yet earlier on he informs us:
“That is what they do. Fish gotta swim, birds gotta fly and so called Palestinians gotta blow themselves up. It’s the only thing they are good at! “
Which kinda lends weight to those who assert that Begin’s remarks were understood by people of Larry’s ilk to be targeting all Palestinians. Which is what racists do - take an individual case and apply it to the race as a whole.

Personally, I don’t place much stock in the rantings of Zionists, there are enough genuine ones out there to fill a book, it is the actions of the likes of Begin that speak volumes:

Early in the morning of Friday, April 9, 1948, commandos of the Irgun, headed by Menachem Begin, and the Stern Gang attacked Deir Yassin, a village with about 750 Palestinian residents. It was several weeks before the end of the British Mandate. The village lay outside of the area that the United Nations recommended be included in a future Jewish State. Deir Yassin had a peaceful reputation and was even said by a Jewish newspaper to have driven out some Arab militants. But it was located on high ground in the corridor between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem and one plan, kept secret until years afterwards, called for it to be destroyed and the residents evacuated to make way for a small airfield that would supply the beleaguered Jewish residents of Jerusalem.

By noon over 100 people, half of them women and children, had been systematically murdered.

This is not to mention Begin and his buddy Shamir’s responsibility for the King David Hotel Bombing, sinking of the Patria, the assassinations of Lord Moyne and Count Bernadotte, acts of terrorism too numerous to relate here and the offer of collaboration with Nazi Germany they made.

“Heckler”?

Is THAT what you call somebody who blows the whistle on your vicious racist fabricated internet garbage? ROTFLMAO You’ve been had dummy! “SNOPES” was invented for Nazis like you!

Heckler…liquor Larry

“In August 2001 the UN held an anti-Racism conference at Durban. The conference became a front for virulent Anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism not heard since the days of the “Zionism is racism” resolution. Israel and the US ultimately walked out in protest. Inside and outside the conference hall Jews and Israelis became the targets of hate-filled and politically motivated attacks. Michael Melchior, representative of the Israeli Government at the conference asked: Can there be a greater irony than the fact that a conference convened to combat the scourge of racism should give rise to the most racist declaration in a major international organization since the Second World War?”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

More Zionist quotes

Rabbi Mendel Schneerson

“The body of a Jewish person, Schneerson bragged, is of a totally different quality from the body of members of all other nations of the world. Bodies of the Gentiles are in vain. An even greater difference is in regard to the soul. A non-Jewish soul comes from three satanic spheres, while the Jewish soul stems from holiness.”

ROBERT IS A LIAR: (and maybe a Nazi)

Dear Robert,

First of all, Mr. Begin never said those words and there is no factual basis for that quote. When we searched for the quote, we found that it looped back to the same text by Texe Marrs, who does not say that he is quoting Begin.

Further research at this site showed that the quote was attributed to “Amnon Kapeliouk’s article “Begin and the Beasts” (New Statesman, June 25, 1982) which was infamous for having misrepresented some remarks Menachem Begin said in a speech to the Knesset, and there are legitimate sources all over the net that make reference to that incident.

However, the misrepresented quote is not the one cited (“Our race is the Master Race”, etc.), but another one entirely (see below). Clearly, someone invented the “Master Race” quote and then tacked on Amnon Kapeliouk as the source, to give it credibility. However, even the REAL (and far less offensive) quote has now been proven to have been misrepresented by Kapeliouk.

The REAL story involving Kapeliouk’s article is provided by a media-watch group called CAMERA (Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America), which regularly debunks bogus news reports and misquotes.

Here:

...Internet hate sites, as well as Fisk, attribute the derogation of Palestinians as “two-legged beasts” to former Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin. The source generally given is:

Menachem Begin, as quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, “Begin and the Beasts, “New Statesman, June 25, 1982

Indeed, the radical French-Israeli journalist, Amnon Kapeliouk, did attribute such a quote to Begin in his New Statesman article criticizing Israel’s invasion of Lebanon. The author posited:

For this reason the government has gone to extraordinary lengths to dehumanize the Palestinians. Begin described them in a speech in the Knesset as “beasts walking on two legs

However, further investigation by CAMERA reveals that the actual speech upon which Kapeliouk based his quote, as well as news reports at the time demonstrate that the journalist distorted the quote, giving it a completely different tone and meaning. Begin was referring not to “the Palestinians” in a general sense but very specifically, he was referring to terrorists who target children within Israel…Kapeliouk neither recanted nor apologized for his deception…
http://begincenterdiary.blogspot.com/2009/05/correcting-misquotation-reputedly-by.html

Oy vey ist mier! - SOME people will always find a way to “blame the Jews” for their problems.  How cleansing it must be for the Europeans who in the most methodic slaughter of humanity in the history of the world sent six million to death factories.

People have been rationalizing and making excuses for Jew hatred for thousands of years. Robert is only one among many.

FAMOUS QUOTES

“JEWS ARE A MASTER RACE”

“Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves.”

By…  Menahem Begin

You Want to Understand Anti-Semitism? Just Look in the Mirror

by Gilad Atzmon?

December 7, 2009

“Benjamin Weinthal, the Jerusalem Post’s correspondent in Berlin wondered earlier this week whether Germany has learned from its Nazi history? The question is in itself very intriguing. Considering its past, one may expect Germany to oppose any form of racist, discriminatory, expansionist and nationalist ideology. Bearing in mind Israelis are considered the ‘Nazis of our time’ by more than just a few commentators, one may expect the Germans to advise the Israelis what not to do. One may also expect Germany to stand by the Palestinians for the Palestinians are, de facto, the last victims of Hitler.

Do not hold your breath. When Jpost’s writer Weinthal refers to Germany learning from its history, he means the complete opposite. What he seeks is German subservience to the Zionist ideology and Jewish national interests. Weinthal, wants to see a clear diplomatic rift between Germany and Iran in the name of the Shoa and its memory. “With regard to its more future-oriented responsibility to prevent Iran’s acquisition of nuclear weapons and its threats to obliterate Israel, critics say Germany is stumbling.” Weinthal makes it transparent that as far as Zionists are concerned, guilt-tripping the Germans is the way forward.”

“If Israel and its supporters want to tackle anti-Jewish resentments they should stop chasing their critics at once. They instead better look in the mirror and understand once and for all that the problem is inside.”

~~~~~~~~~~~

Click on link for Gilad Atzmon’s article & more:

http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/you-want-to-understand-anti-semitism-just-look-in-the-mirror.html

Ardee - you have to MAKE a point before anyone can “get one”! Thus far you have failed to “make a point”.

Again, Ardee has posted “neener neener” .. I think what I think because I think what I think because that is what I was told and the truth is whatever I say it is. Ardee has NOT refuted the fact that Gaza was part of Jordan, that the Arabs rejected the partition plan LONG BEFORE the Jews had no choice but to take it from them in war, that tiny Israel turned back the combined might of the entire Arab world 3 times, “Egytp, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, etc”. Ardee and those like her HATE FACTS. They confuse her.

FREE SPEECH NO THANKS TO ME? I AM HAPPY WITH FREE SPEECH, YOU HAVE NOTHING TO SAY AND HIDE BEHIND THAT FREE SPEECH CRAP. NOT A SINGLE FACT FROM ARDEE.

HERE ARE FACTS: In 1999, the Palestinian Arabs tried another tactic. Forgetting that it was the Arabs who rejected General Assembly Resolution 181 in 1948 and prevented its implementation, they launched an international diplomatic campaign to revive 181 as a basis to create a Palestinian state. They want another 1947 partition vote because the borders of Israel, under Resolution 181, would be smaller than the negotiated borders called for in the later UN Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338, adopted after the Six Day War in 1967 and generally accepted as a reasonable basis for peace with secure borders. Resolution 181 also provides that Jerusalem:

  * ... shall be established as a corpus separatum under a special international regime and shall be administered by the United Nations.

Since West Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel since it was founded and the whole city has been the capital since it was reunited in 1967, this anachronism is obviously unacceptable to Israel.

The Palestinian Arabs want to use the UN to rewrite history at their convenience, hoping the world will forget the three major Arab-instigated wars of aggression against Israel and the multitude of terrorist attacks since the Arabs originally rejected Resolution 181.

It is no surprise that the Oslo Agreements were negotiated outside of, and contained no role for, the UN. Though Israel has been the subject of aggressive wars in 1948, 1967 and 1973 and the victim of countless terrorist attacks, the Security Council and the General Assembly have never once censured its assailants.

There are increasingly frequent cases of blatantly anti-Semitic remarks by Arab representatives at UN forums. In 1991, Syrian representatives at the Commission on Human Rights accused Jews of using the blood of Christian children in their rituals. On 11 March 1997, the PLO representative in Geneva, Nabil Ramlani, used the same forum to accuse Israel of injecting 300 Palestinian children with the AIDS virus. In May 2000, the representative of Lebanon declared Zionism to be an “elitist racist movement”.

In August 2001 the UN held an anti-Racism conference at Durban. The conference became a front for virulent Anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism not heard since the days of the “Zionism is racism” resolution. Israel and the US ultimately walked out in protest. Inside and outside the conference hall Jews and Israelis became the targets of hate-filled and politically motivated attacks. Michael Melchior, representative of the Israeli Government at the conference asked: Can there be a greater irony than the fact that a conference convened to combat the scourge of racism should give rise to the most racist declaration in a major international organization since the Second World War?

Liquor Store Larry, January 12 at 7:20 pm #

By ardee, January 12 at 7:57 am #

Sometimes repetition is the only recourse:

Liquor store Larry…silly moniker really, but notwithstanding…

Your desire to make truth from whole cloth illustrates the shallowness of your position all by itself, and I do thank you for being so easily uncovered

Do I repeat myself, well then I repeat myself. You still fail to get the point so repetition is a good teaching tool I think.

Rant all you wish, insult away, the facts are immune to your stupid insults. You may distort those facts, you may post all the silliness you wish, we have freedom of speech here yet. But its no thanks to those like you.

By ardee, January 12 at 7:57 am #

Sometimes repetition is the only recourse:

Liquor store Larry…silly moniker really, but notwithstanding…

Your desire to make truth from whole cloth illustrates the shallowness of your position all by itself, and I do thank you for being so easily uncovered

HEREIN ARDEE YOU HAVE STATED “I repeat myself” “my moniker is silly” “I am shallow” “I have been uncovered” and mentioned “whole cloth” ... in keeping with your fellow overly emotional short on information ill informed, mis informed and generally uninformed lib brothers and sisters you throw out QUITE a few ad hominem insults but NO FACTS ... Why don’t you try and rebut Howard there who posted FACTS such as nobody peeped about alleged “occupation” when the West Bank was part of Jordan and Gaza was part of Egypt (ruh roh says the lib, now what am I gonna do?) SEEING AS HOW “my facts are out of whole cloth” why dont you explain to Howard why the West Bank is really Palestinian land and not part of Jordan .... Duhhhh (handing the bib to the lib) Howard there also ask a question: He said WHO ARE YOU GOING TO MAKE PEACE WITH when Mamoud Abbas, Palestinian president will be killed if he visits his most populace city which of course is controlled by terrorists. Sorry Ardee - Ad homs and name calling are a piss poor substitute for FACTS

By Howard, January 12 at 11:45 am #

Since when did Israel follow international law?

There are No occupied territories.  Who had the West bank for all the years before Israel gained the land while defending itself?  Jordan.  Jordan, an artifical country if there ever was one.  Did they give the land to the Pal’s.  NO.
  So Israel has as much claim on the West Bank as anyone. It is not occupied.  Jordan occupied it and no one, no country said ” boo “.
  International law states a country defending itself can hold onto disputed ownership territory.  Imagine.

Sometimes repetition is the only recourse:

Liquor store Larry…silly moniker really, but notwithstanding…

Your desire to make truth from whole cloth illustrates the shallowness of your position all by itself, and I do thank you for being so easily uncovered

Ardee - you are a revisionist and your statements about the creation of Israel are not accurate. Many of the rest of you are simply not worth speaking to. “A two state solution?” What kind of idiot thinks that someone who is sworn to make the entire middle east into Muslim land or die trying wants a two state solution? Are you fuggin deaf, dumb and blind? All you have to do is suggest peace and you provoke another intifada .. why? Because the Muslim fanatics have made a life style of trying to destroy Israel and if they made peace they would actually have to get real jobs.

Again, Mamoud Abbas, the Palestinian President can not visit him own most populace city because he will be killed. LMAO THERE IS NO PARTNER IN PEACE FOR ISRAEL, THERE ARE ONLY TERRORISTS! If Israel did not exist these Arabs who in fact are nothing more than Arabs from the same general region, but are unwanted even by their fellow Arabs would merely kill each other. That is what they do. Fish gotta swim, birds gotta fly and so called Palestinians gotta blow themselves up. It’s the only thing they are good at!

RE Howard:  “3 cheers for Israel.  At least they will start negotiations.  But as always, with Whom.”

Well, I imagine it’s just like it always is and has been for many years now - Israel’s government is just negotiating with the citizenry helping them to decide which Israeli family gets to move into what new settlement.

3 cheers for Israel.  At least they will start negotiations.  But as always, with Whom?

Henry Siegman again:

Israel’s disingenuous commitment to a peace process and a two-state solution is precisely what has made possible its open-ended occupation and dismemberment of Palestinian territory. And the Quartet – with the EU, the UN secretary general and Russia obediently following Washington’s lead – has collaborated with and provided cover for this deception by accepting Israel’s claim that it has been unable to find a deserving Palestinian peace partner.

Just one year after the 1967 war, Moshe Dayan, a former IDF chief of staff who at the time was minister of defence, described his plan for the future as ‘the current reality in the territories’. ‘The plan,’ he said, ‘is being implemented in actual fact. What exists today must remain as a permanent arrangement in the West Bank.’ Ten years later, at a conference in Tel Aviv, Dayan said: ‘The question is not “What is the solution?” but “How do we live without a solution?”’ Geoffrey Aronson, who has monitored the settlement enterprise from its beginnings, summarises the situation as follows:

  Living without a solution, then as now, was understood by Israel as the key to maximising the benefits of conquest while minimising the burdens and dangers of retreat or formal annexation. This commitment to the status quo, however, disguised a programme of expansion that generations of Israeli leaders supported as enabling, through Israeli settlement, the dynamic transformation of the territories and the expansion of effective Israeli sovereignty to the Jordan River.

RE: “A U.S. proposal to resume Middle East peace talks”

I see Senator Lieberman who advocates “neglect” as a policy for the sick is pulling dirty tricks again.  This time he is undermining Obama and George Mitchell’s efforts to stop Israel’s ongoing expansion of settlements on the West Bank.

Shortly after Mitchell mentioned the possibility of the U.S. withholding loan guarantees to Israel, Senator Lieberman – who many U.S. citizens rightfully call Traitor Joe – rushes to appear at a press conference to declare:
 
“Any attempt to pressure Israel, to force Israel to the negotiating table, by denying Israel support will not pass the Congress of the United States. In fact, Congress will act to stop any attempt to do that.”  [Lieberman]

No doubt, Andrew Sullivan’s thoughts about Traitor Joe is right on:

“Lieberman, for his part, is effectively telling the Israelis that Obama does not control US foreign policy with respect to Israel, and that he will be prevented by Congress from exerting any pressure. He says this with a certainty, as if the autonomy of the president is simply moot. And remember that Lieberman and McCain often invoke the necessity for sanctions against foreign countries the US is trying to nudge or persuade in one way or another.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/01/lieberman-and-mccain-back-netanyahu-against-obama-in-israel.html

The Pal’s and hamas’ leaders going back a Long, long way have again refused to make peace.  Any peaceful voices from within are ‘shut down’.
  Maybe if Egypt opens their border with Gaza (after all they held Gaza for decades) and Jordan which is 80% palestinian takes them in as refugees there will be a good start for peace.
    The other 21 arab nations pay lip service only to the conflict as they wish to promote the violence.  It helps them distract their own people.

Liquor store Larry…silly moniker really, but notwithstanding…

Your desire to make truth from whole cloth illustrates the shallowness of your position all by itself, and I do thank you for being so easily uncovered.

Liquor Store Larry, January 10 at 12:14 pm #

ardee, -“impoverished people”? You mean like those in Dubai and Saudi Arabia? You and those like you perpetuate the myth of a “Palestinian people”. There IS NO SUCH THING as a Palestinian people.

While the rulers of those two nations are far from impoverished a nation consists of more than its ruling class. Thought you oughta know….As to the creation of the Palestinian refugees they were created by Israel itself through the medium of ousting seven hundred thousand Arabs from the newly minted state of Israel. What a shallow and flimsy bit of illogic you build.

As to this bit of Goebbels like tripe:

The Arabs have successfully blurred the true history of what happened when Israel was formed in 1948. Six hundred thousand Jewish refugees from Arab nations fled to Israel—many in fear for their lives, most after having their property expropriated. They were assimilated by Israel. About the same number of Arab refugees fled what is now Israel, the West Bank and Gaza. They were not assimilated by the Arab nations, with whom they shared a common religion, ethnicity, history and language, but were instead herded into refugee camps the better to “return” to their homes after Israel was obliterated by Arab armies.(Since the World War II, more than 100,000,000 people have been forced to become refugees.

Those Jews who immigrated to Israel did so voluntarily, though there has of course been both cooperation and persecution in that region for centuries. That history though is certainly no reason for you to make up, out of whole cloth, an absurd unreality you proffer as truth.

The Arabs, on the other hand, were summarily ousted from Israel in order that the Jew would be the majority of the new state.This had been planned by Ben Gurion while he and about a dozen future leaders of Israel planned for the new state.The history book “The Red House” clearly notes this. Here is a link to a review of said book by a sometimes contributer here:

The Red House
by eileen fleming

In Tel Aviv “on March 10, 1948, eleven men had a meeting in the Red House headed by Ben Gurion. The eleven decided to expel one million Palestinians from historical Palestine. No minutes were taken, but many memoirs were written about that fateful meeting. A systematic ethnic cleansing of Palestine began and within seven months the Zionists managed to expel one half of all the Palestinian people from their villages and towns.”-Dr. Ilan Pappe.

Dr. Pappe is Israeli born and a graduate of Hebrew University and Oxford and is currently teaching at Haifa University. He is a well known revisionist or “post-Zionist” Israeli historian who has been both acclaimed and demonized. His most recent work is A History of Modern Palestine: One Land, Two Peoples which documents the expulsion of Palestinians as an orchestrated crime of ethnic cleansing.

http://www.crossleft.org/node/2405

In short, Larry, one finds that you need to invent, distort and create fictions when , should one’s position be authentic, only the truth would be necessary.

Liquor Store Larry.

Your moniker is appropriate - your fulminations carry the stench of cheap booze.
You may well believe all the nonsense you spout but, taking into account your user-name, it has all the credibility one would attribute to the ravings of a chronic drunk - until you post some links to substantiate it.

You post a gory video and infer that this is how the Palestinian people act. Now if the actors in the video were Palestinian, your implication would still be less logical than posting this and asserting that the common characteristic of Jews is gangsterism. Unfortunately the language spoken in the clip is not Arabic so the perpetrators have as much in common with Palestinians as Bugsy Seigel has with the Pope.
I have run the video past an Imam of my acquaintance who says the Koran allows beheading as a form of execution for the crime of murder only when the accused admits the charge and for the crime of rape where there are multiple witnesses. The beheading must be performed in one blow. The Koran is very specific about this. So it is neither Arabic nor is it Islamic in any pure sense.

My guess is its a fake. The deathporn site imprinted on the film does quite well out of that sort of thing I’m told.

As to your various assertions regarding Hamas, I think the opinions, well substantiated with fact, of Rabbi Henry Siegman (director of the U.S./Middle East Project in New York, a visiting research professor at the Sir Joseph Hotung Middle East Program, School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London and former national director of the American Jewish Congress and of the Synagogue Council of America) are more persuasive. At least he sounds sober.
Sir Jeremy Greenstock might have raised a few pink gins during his career as Britain’s top diplomat but he sounds sober here.
Both have a very different view of Hamas than a guy from a liquor store.

mr. liquor store: “your threats sound very similar to the threats of those who you defend.”

threats!!!...what threats?  and i wasn’t defending anyone…just showing solidarity with TD’ers who oppose post 1967 israeli expansionism and who believe the palestinians forced off their land in 1948 deserve justice.
_____
mr. liquor store: “What is it you are suggesting anyhow?”

u that street stupid?  i’m suggesting your cyber personna wouldn’t make it for 5 minutes on an urban street.  if u don’t act that way in real life, why do it on the net?
______
mr. liquor store: “I suppose if i was trying to defend an indefensible position…”

u mean ‘settling” on another’s land is a defensible position?  the world community recognizes the west bank as palestinian land.  now, i’m not opposed to some israeli security presence on the west bank as long as israel hasn’t reached peace agreements with its neighbors. but ‘settling’ the land?  only someone who’s lost common decency could defend something like that.

But wait!
Theres more
http://www.shovrimshtika.org/index_e.asp

And for NZDOUG who posts photos ALLEGEDLY of damage done by Israelis (when we know that many primitive rocket making facilities have accidentally blown up killing Palestinians and that many Palestinians have executed their own people who dare suggest peace or a two state solution) HERE are pictures for you too. One good turn deserves another: http://www.pbase.com/yalop/bomb

By Amon Drool, January 10 at 11:16 pm # - bet when he swaggers down a multi-cultural urban street, he lets the ragheads, blacks and progressive ‘lemmings’ have it like he does here…oh yeah

Mr. Drool - your threats sound very similar to the threats of those who you defend.  What is it that you are suggesting anyhow?

That when I “swagger down a multi-ethnic urban street” a suicide bomber will jump out of the bushes and blow me up, or that a black man who has embraced Jesse Jackson calling New York “Hymie Town” or Louis Farrakhan calling Judaism “a gutter religion” or Al Sharpton calling a Jew a “white interloper, who is also “swaggering down a multi-ethnic urban street” will jump out and shoot me or cut me? I suppose if I was trying to defend an indefensible position and was intellectually outgunned I might feel the same way. In the mean time -

Drool ... Hmmm I’d have to say your handle fits like a glove!

dat larry…he a real keyboard tiger…talkin’ all that smack from the safety of cyberspace…bet when he swaggers down a multi-cultural urban street, he lets the ragheads, blacks and progressive ‘lemmings’ have it like he does here…oh yeah

This link to photos has disappeared.
Strange….
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7942

liquore store larry/lefty/lilmamzer

Its has been a little while since we had such a rabid racist zio-nazi poster with your colors on TD. I must ask if you attended the same brain washing/mind infection zionist school(s) that lefty/lilmamzer attended. Your bigotry & sick racism are glowing quite well here on TD. Israel’s IDF is made up of so many racists like you. They shoot 9 & 10 year old Palestinian children in the head and they never have to spend one (1) hour in prison for their horrific crimes.

Your zio-nazi narrative needs to be seen by more Americans, their billions of taxpayers $$$ are going to your Apartheid Israel each day/year to fund zio-nazi settlements & its IDF killers who have been on an ethnic-cleansing mission & killing trails of the Palestinian people.

So larry/lefty/lilmamzer…just keep spewing your zio-nazi racist garbage, maybe your rabid zio-nazi cheerleaders, like ed-tru-lib & others, will step in from the sidelines to cheer your sick racism on…!!!

Arabian Sinbad, the settlements should be completely dismantled?  Why not just make the Israeli’s reatreat to pre-1967 borders, but let those homes and infrastructure be used for the Palestinean refugees who need to return?

As to cause and effect, human history has contained many “lessons” illustrating the counter-productivity of violence, but none more long-lasting and devastating than the Israel/Palestine situation.
  Israel was built, at least in part, as a device to “compensate” for centuries of persecution of Jews by other nationalities and faiths which culminated in Hitler Germany. A vague awareness of shared guilt for previous violence was present from the beginning.
  Yet no overt admissions of guilt were produced, no significant rejections of prejudice.  Without acknowledged responsibility for prevous gross injustices, no codification of alternatives, nnw those against whom the Holocaust was aimed have reverted in their turn to cruelties against the Palestinians that are little less than another holocoaust.  The response to this is the same passivity of others that made the German holocaust inevitable.
  Now in many places, both action and lack of action seem to point in the direction of ever-increasing violence engulfing nations even beyond the immediate conflicts. Complications compound, and no force or agency seems able to say to Israel, unequivocably, and secondarily to Hamas, simply STOP. 
  Yet if the world were to unite at last over this one necessity with heart-felt human awareness, and protest, demand in one voice, that the killing, theft, hatred, cruelty of Israel’s war power and occupation agaubst Oakestube be stopped, the “axis of evil” of world violence might be shifted in a more humane direction and other “hot spots” could be cooled.
  Of course this involves a deep re-thinking of present processes, ideologies and economies, and a sense of worldwide mutuality—an undertaking vaster and more conscious than the Renaissance or any previous Golden Age.
  I am not suggesting here a return to the Garden or any such irresponsible dream, but to the grave and scientifally predictable necessity for the world in general to give up dependency on violence and the fear and hysteria that inevitably accompany it; to face the possibilities of human BEING rather to persist in the habituated reliance on punishment, and the human love affair with revenge and death.
  Is there no leadership to take on this proposition?  Are their no nations ready to step up to the plate?  Regrettably, the US is far down on the list of possibilities—and that to our abject disgrace. We are missing a great human opportunity as well as adding immeasurably to the world’s misery with our own insensate violence.

By Liquor Store Larry, January 10 at 4:14 pm #

No Palestian people?  An old disproven zionist claim you are parroting here.  As far as the film you provided, If real, I’m sure the Irgun have done much much worse.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/mapstellstory.html?q=mapstellstory.html

John Ellis

It is best to let posters like Liquored Larry rant and give their opinion so the world knows how twisted those with such ideas rationalize such grevious wrong.

n(ITW)its often give themselves away.

That further Zionist land grabs had to stop used to be the American position.  Then Obama and Hillary retreated and asked the Palestinians to accept the U.S.‘s embarrassment for it.

Liquor Store Larry…wrote:

“When Mark Twain visited the Holy Land in 1867, he found to his dismay that the land was barren. “Stirring scenes ... occur in the valley (Jezreel) no more. There is not a solitary village throughout its whole extent—not for 30 miles in either direction. There are two or three small clusters of Bedouin tents, but not a single permanent habitation. One may ride 10 miles hereabouts and not see 10 human beings.””

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ahad Ha’Am - A Brief Biography & Quotes    

BASED On Declassified Israeli Documents & Personal Diaries

Ahad Ha’Am, a liberal Russian Jewish thinker and a leading Eastern European Jewish essayist, who visited Palestine in 1891 for three months.

In 1891 Ahad Ha’Am opened many Jewish eyes to the fact the Palestine was not empty, but populated with its indigenous people when he wrote:

  “We abroad are used to believe the Eretz Yisrael is now almost totally desolate, a desert that is not sowed ..... But in truth that is not the case. Throughout the country it is difficult to find fields that are not sowed. Only sand dunes and stony mountains .... are not cultivated.” (Righteous Victims, p. 42)

In 1891Ahad Ha’Am similarly wrote of the Palestinians:

  “If a time comes when our people in Palestine develop so that, in small or great measure, they push out the native inhabitants, these will not give up their place easily.” (Righteous Victims, p. 49)

Ahad Ha’Am published a series of articles in the Hebrew periodical Hameliz that were sharply critical of the ethnocentricity of political Zionism as well as the exploitation of the Palestinian peasantry by the Zionist colonists. Ahad Ha’Am sought to draw attention to the fact the Palestine was not empty territory and that the presence of another people posed problems:

  ” ....[the Zionist pioneers believed that] the only language the Arabs understand is that of force ..... [They] behave towards the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, trespass unjustly upon their boundaries, beat them shamefully without reason and even brag about it, and nobody stands to check this contemptible and dangerous tendency.” (Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 7)

In a pamphlet under the heading line of “Truth from Eretz Yisrael” published in 1891, Ahad Ha’Am wrote of how Jewish settlers at the time treated the indigenous Palestinian people:

  ”[The Jewish settlers] treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, trespass unjustly, beat them shamelessly for no sufficient reason, and even take pride in doing so. The Jews were slaves in the land of their Exile, and suddenly they found themselves with unlimited freedom, wild freedom that ONLY exists in a land like Turkey. This sudden change has produced in their hearts an inclination towards repressive tyranny, as always happens when slave rules.” ‘Ahad Ha’Am warned: “We are used to thinking of the Arabs as primitive men of the desert, as a donkey-like nation that neither sees nor understands what is going around it. But this is a GREAT ERROR. The Arab, like all sons of Sham, has sharp and crafty mind . . . Should time come when life of our people in Palestine imposes to a smaller or greater extent on the natives, they WILL NOT easily step aside.” (One Palestine Complete, p. 104) How accurate ‘Ahad Ha’Am description was even after more a 100 years plus of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict! The conduct of most Israelis, especially in the occupied territories, is very much similar to the way ‘Ahad portrayed early Jewish settlers’ conduct over a century ago.”

@@@@@@

Click on link to rest of Ahad Ha’Am’s truth, humanity and wisdom:

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Famous-Zionist-Quotes/Story642.html

Throughout the course of history national changes in a country come from within rather than from the outside.  While outside forces do exert some influence, major changes come from the evolving national population itself and I am not referring to nationalism——that is a whole different animal though it does come from within the state.  We see the greatest changes in countries where the population is heterogeneous.  Homogeneous countries like Japan and China change only in the form of government——the nationality of the state remains the same.

In deference to this article,——a virtual fifth column is forming that will be difficult to impede without a serious setback to democratic principles.  As Israeli Arabs become politically more powerful, the state of Israel will be altered into a “secular” state losing it’s “Jewishness.”  The only way to avoid this is to create loyalty requirements backed up by laws and then you’ll have a state closely approaching that of Saudi Arabia——my way or the highway.

A while back I made a comment about a “one-state” solution which is getting closer!

As a person of Palestinian background I demand not only that the settlements be frozen before any so-called peace negotiations, but that the existing settlements must be dismantled up to the last and the smallest. Any thing short of that is a betrayal of what is left from the Palestinian just cause and a recipe for continued conflict among the Palestinians which only benefits the terrorist occupiers.

Moreover, official USA, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Jordan are not be trusted to be mediators for peace on behalf of the Palestinians. It is a well-known fact that that Official US is in the pockets of the Israelis and will only work as their agents. As to official Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Jordan they are the puppets of the US and by extension of Israel.

The Palestinians must not fall to the illusion of a false peace, but must continue their struggle for liberation by all means possible, including what is negatively labeled as “terrorism” for it was continued unprecedented terrorism that created Israel. Learning from the enemy is the most important thing the Palestinians have to do to achieve their goals; for history, justice and birth rates are on their side!

Furthermore, you people are siding with Hamas, a terrorist org plain and simple. (like yourselves) What part of popularly elected by people who when polled vote 70% support suicide bombings, even blowing up their own children? Can you imagine Jews doing this:
http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/2009/06/05/muslim-child-and-friends-behead-man-while-praising-allah-video/  Teaching little boys to cut the throat of conscious victims? What do you suppose this Arab did to get his throat cut by a terrorist child? Possibly a high crime like supporting peace with Israel and a two state solution? President Abbas has not visited his most populace city in 5 years because he himself would be killed there and you expect someone to talk peace with who? I don’t know how an American or European or any civilized person becomes “Lemmingized” to the point where they empathize with savages that blow up their own children but I can tell you, something is seriously wrong with you psychologically for you to be so! You can call me a bigot and a racist all that trite clap trap all you like but I did not invent any of this. These are murderous thugs and it is no more racist than stating that pygmies are little and cannibals eat people. I myself have serious problems with any state predicated on a religion or ethnicity but no people every had a more conspicuously mitigating circumstance than the Jews and these people are surrounded on all sides by Muslim theocracies (several of which have already expelled the so called Palestinians for their own reasons I might add) and you guys don’t seem to have the slightest problem with that. For 4000 years only the Jews became targets and for what? The crime of defending their own lives. Ya know what? Let the damn Arabs pick up the pieces of their damn mess for once! Don’t miss the film clip I posted and please let it remind you of the mentality of those you are sticking up for.

ardee, -“impoverished people”? You mean like those in Dubai and Saudi Arabia? You and those like you perpetuate the myth of a “Palestinian people”. There IS NO SUCH THING as a Palestinian people. The West Bank and Gaza were called Egypt and Jordan until the 100% fabricated Arab mythology was created in order to complete the job the Arabs were tying to do from the turn of the century, decades before the creation of the state of Israel, and than failed to do again while allied with the Nazis during WW2. Those that you have been suckered into calling Palestinians are merely “Arabs” from the same region indistinguishable from ANY OTHER Arabs by culture, language, cuisine or any other denominator you can think of. But don’t let that influence your thinking.

The Arabs have successfully blurred the true history of what happened when Israel was formed in 1948. Six hundred thousand Jewish refugees from Arab nations fled to Israel—many in fear for their lives, most after having their property expropriated. They were assimilated by Israel. About the same number of Arab refugees fled what is now Israel, the West Bank and Gaza. They were not assimilated by the Arab nations, with whom they shared a common religion, ethnicity, history and language, but were instead herded into refugee camps the better to “return” to their homes after Israel was obliterated by Arab armies.(Since the World War II, more than 100,000,000 people have been forced to become refugees. Nearly all were forced to assimilate into nations with different cultures and traditions.) Further, these Arab refugees had no ancient tie to the land of “Palestine.” Most were recent immigrants, a fact implicitly acknowledged by the United Nations when it altered the definition of refugee to apply to those who have lived “at least two years” in a location.

When Mark Twain visited the Holy Land in 1867, he found to his dismay that the land was barren. “Stirring scenes ... occur in the valley (Jezreel) no more. There is not a solitary village throughout its whole extent—not for 30 miles in either direction. There are two or three small clusters of Bedouin tents, but not a single permanent habitation. One may ride 10 miles hereabouts and not see 10 human beings.” But when large numbers of Jews began to resettle the land in the 1880s and made it more prosperous, large numbers of Arab migrants began to arrive. The whole idea of a Palestinian nation and a Palestinian people is an invention of Arab propaganda. Arafat was himself an Egyptian. The only people to have lived continuously on the land “from time immemorial” are Jews. So many others have conquered, ruled, thrived and ultimately perished there that the list would take hundreds of pages. A mere sample would include: Byzantines, Persians, Arabs, Turks, Circassians, Kurds, Abbassids (Iraqis), Egyptians, Kharezmians (Genghis Khan), Mamluks, Mongols, Latins (Crusaders), Ottomans, French and English.

It is not and never was “Palestinian land.”

Possibly you should pay more attention to unrevised history and your own conscious or sub conscious bigotry and pension for swallowing sales pitches whole and pay less attention to my typos.

Liquor Store Larry, January 10 at 12:00 am #

And when suicide bombers, murderers in kaffiyas and those who use their own children as “human sheilds” are hell bent on exterminating you, your family and your entire race you are supposed to defend yourself non-violently how?

Larry, your really need to stop thinking with the wrong head and review the history of Israeli outrages against an impoverished and almost hopeless people, made such by the imperialism of Israel.

Oh, and its I before E except after C…..

Liquor Store Larry buys into one of the most egregious slanders imaginable - the “human shields” myth. It is “beyond chutzpah” for a huge military to first attack a densely populated area and then make this accusation. The IDF has been caught time and time again directly applying this technique.
Here are two examples:
http://www.btselem.org/english/human_shields/20060720_human_shields_in_beit_hanun.asp

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1073243.html

During Operation Cast Lead, Gazans flocked to the roof of a building in the targeted area and stared down the incoming aircraft. This extraordinarily courageous demonstration of pacifist resistance was trumpeted by Israel as the use of human shields. I have seen no other evidence of Palestinians using human shields.

Liquor Store Larry…wrote:

“and those who use their own children as “human sheilds” are hell bent on exterminating you”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hmmm…!!! Just click on the link below & see who is using children as a human shield!

Take a good look at the photo in the link and see where Israel’s brutal IDF has tied a 13 year old Palestinian boy. This photo is worth more than a 1000 words; one can see the real story in the eyes of the Palestinian boy.

******

“The day Israel used a boy aged 13 as a human shield”

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/purity-of-arms-courage-under-fire/

Israel has killed 100 times more Palestineans than the other way around—and actually, the Goldstone Report found there was no ‘human shields’ being used by the democratically elected Gazan government—there was indiscriminate, deliberate destruction of civilian lives and infrastructure by the IDF.  And yes, the Palestinians are resisting the violent occupation, blockade, theft of their land and constant murder of Palestinians.  The people of Gaza don’t have bomber jets, they don’t have checkpoints that the Israeli’s have to pass through in order to go to school, work, or otherwise; they have killed few Israeli’s, enormously fewer children, and never even suicide bombed before the 1990’s, when the ‘closure’ policy of Israel became clear. 

Israeli’s live a comfortable, secure life, hogging the region’s water resources and sitting on nuclear bombs.

And when suicide bombers, murderers in kaffiyas and those who use their own children as “human sheilds” are hell bent on exterminating you, your family and your entire race you are supposed to defend yourself non-violently how? How do you reason with this?
http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/2009/06/05/muslim-child-and-friends-behead-man-while-praising-allah-video/

The Savagery of Israel’s attack on Gaza

“The brutal attack on a school in Gaza by Israel’s IDF & the use of white phosphorus on civilians in the December 2008.”

Click on link to watch this short video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhG0cCGEpxg

NOAM CHOMSKY: “Gaza: One Year Later”

12.24.2009 | Democracy Now

“On December 27, 2008, Israel began one of the bloodiest attacks on Gaza Since 1948. The three week assault killed some 1400 Palestinians and 13 Israelis. One year later, little to no rebuilding has taken place and the siege in Gaza continues.

Speaking in Watertown, Massachusetts on December 6, 2009, linguist and social critic Noam Chomsky delivered a talk entitled “Gaza: One Year Later.””
~~~~~~~~~~

Click on link to watch video:

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/chomsky-on-gaza-aftermath/

There really isn’t anything to talk about; all parties (including Hamas, Iran, Egypt, the UN…) have agreed to the two state solution based on pre-1967 borders.  There is nothing to ‘talk’ about with Israel, except ordering them to do it; to get out of the golan heights, gaza, the west bank, and east jerusalem immediately, and fully recognize an independent, viable, sovereign Palestinian state that will also have the ability to defend itself. 

However, it must be noted that Israel has preconditions; bizzare, abstract, impossible ones; that Palestinean’s renounce their ability to respond to Israel’s ongoing violence, and that they betray the right to return and Israel’s non-jewish population.  Israel prefers to stall “negotiations” where they will give absolutely nothing, meanwhile stealing and encircling more land, killing more people.  They need to be brought to justice

The legitimate voice of the Palestinian people is Hamas. The MSM rarely publishes what they say, only second hand commentary from those whose purpose is to distort the nature and negotiating position of this highly principled organization.

I make no apology for a long post. The following should have been on Truthdig’s front page.

“The political leadership of Hamas is probably the most highly qualified in the world. Boasting more than 500 PhDs in its ranks, the majority are middle-class professionals - doctors, dentists, scientists and engineers. Most of its leadership have been educated in our universities and harbour no ideological hatred towards the West. It is a grievance-based movement, dedicated to addressing the injustice done to its people. It has consistently offered a ten-year ceasefire to give breathing space to resolve a conflict that has continued for more than 60 years.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article5420584.ece

“Our message to the Israelis is this: we do not fight you because you belong to a certain faith or culture. Jews have lived in the Muslim world for 13 centuries in peace and harmony; they are in our religion “the people of the book” who have a covenant from God and His Messenger Muhammad (peace be upon him) to be respected and protected. Our conflict with you is not religious but political. We have no problem with Jews who have not attacked us - our problem is with those who came to our land, imposed themselves on us by force, destroyed our society and banished our people.

We shall never recognise the right of any power to rob us of our land and deny us our national rights. We shall never recognise the legitimacy of a Zionist state created on our soil in order to atone for somebody else’s sins or solve somebody else’s problem. But if you are willing to accept the principle of a long-term truce, we are prepared to negotiate the terms. Hamas is extending a hand of peace to those who are truly interested in a peace based on justice.”

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jan/31/comment.israelandthepalestinians

“The logic of those who demand that we stop our resistance is absurd. They absolve the aggressor and occupier - armed with the deadliest weapons of death and destruction - of responsibility, while blaming the victim, prisoner and occupied. Our modest, home-made rockets are our cry of protest to the world. Israel and its American and European sponsors want us to be killed in silence. But die in silence we will not.”

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/06/gaza-israel-hamas

“There are plenty of examples where no recognition does not mean war. China and Taiwan for example have not recognized each other but they trade and cooperate with each other. – By withholding a formal recognition we just don’t want to give Israel the legitimacy for having taken our land in the first place.”

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=4192

“U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton on Friday said that the United States is working with Israeli and Palestinian authorities”

I say bullshit to Hilary Clinton. She has not spoken one word to the legitimately elected representatives of the Palestinian people and the reason is clear. Hamas mean what they say and they will settle for nothing less than an end to Israel’s colonial enterprise.

The PNA is being far too generous, in my view.  The illegal occupation must cease, and the illegal “settlements” must be razed to the ground.  If not for US support for the illegal occupation, and crucial US (taxpayer) money that provides the weaponry, this would have been settled decades ago.

I give TruthDig about 24 hours before they move this to page 2 to keep it out of sight.

“For the most part, Israel is the subcontractor for American arms to the ‘Third World.’ There is no terrible regime-Colombia, Guatemala, Uruguay, Argentina and Chile during the time of the colonels, Burma, Taiwan, Zaire, Liberia, Congo, Sierra Leone-there is not one that does not have a major military connection to Israel…. So this is the missing piece… Israel is a key member of the empire.”
(Jeff Halper, Israeli activist and analyst)

“...The charge that criticism of Israel is implicitly anti-Semitic—is regarded in Israel and the United States as Israel’s trump card. If it has been played more insistently and aggressively in recent years, that is because it is now the only card left. The habit of tarring any foreign criticism with the brush of anti-Semitism is deeply ingrained in Israeli political instincts: Ariel Sharon used it with characteristic excess but he was only the latest in a long line of Israeli leaders to exploit the claim. David Ben-Gurion and Golda Meir did no different. But Jews outside of Israel pay a high price for this tactic. Not only does it inhibit their own criticisms of Israel for fear of appearing to associate with bad company, but it encourages others to look upon Jews everywhere as de facto collaborators in Israel’s misbehavior. When Israel breaks international law in the occupied territories, when Israel publicly humiliates the subject populations whose land it has seized—but then responds to its critics with loud cries of “anti-Semitism”—it is in effect saying that these acts are not Israeli acts, they are Jewish acts: The occupation is not an Israeli occupation, it is a Jewish occupation, and if you don’t like these things it is because you don’t like Jews. In many parts of the world this is in danger of becoming a self-fulfilling assertion: Israel’s reckless behavior and insistent identification of all criticism with anti-Semitism is now the leading source of anti-Jewish sentiment in Western Europe and much of Asia…”
excerpted from the article
(“The Country that Wouldn’t Grow Up”
by Tony Judt. Ha’aretz http://www.haaretz.com 5/5/06)

“An officer for whom you are responsible has sentenced me today to twenty-eight days in military prison for my refusal to serve in reserve duty. I did not refuse only to serve in the Occupied Palestinian Territories-as I have for the past fifteen years. I refused to serve in the Israeli army in any capacity…
“Your army that calls itself the ‘Israeli Defence Force’ is nothing more than the armed wing of the settlement movement. This army does not exist to bring security to the citizens of Israel; it exists to guarantee the continuation of the theft of Palestinian land. As a Jew, I am repelled by the crimes this militia commits against the Palestinian people.
“It is both my Jewish and human duty to resolutely refuse to take any part in this army. As the son of a people victim to pogroms and destruction, I cannot be a part of your insane policies. As a human being, it is my duty to refuse to participate in any institution which commits crimes against humanity.”
(Sergio Yahni, Israeli army ‘refusnik’)

Settlements are theft.
You can have peace if we can steal from you and kill you.
O.K.?
The solution
67 borders.
Article 242 of the UN.
You cant take land by force.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_242
The problem with Peace is that the Arabs would unite and gas would go up and
they would kick out whitey and stop that theft.

Best let mad dog Israel keep them divided.
3.3 billion per year in US aid for mad dogs military.
Thats O.K. because Israel has “purity of weapons”.
How can humans be so sick?

Predicating negotiations on “without preconditions” is like giving a kid a lick on a sucker and then pulling it away and expecting the kid to beg for another lick. It’s juvenile in content and therefore a non-starter, probably not serious to begin with, but a kind of grim joke.
  In view of the degree of mass suffering of Palestinians inflicted by Israel with its military force, any peace ought to be predicated on justice, or at the very least a hope of justice.  But Israel is not interested in justice.  If it were, its battle with the Palestinians could be settled in a week. 
  Israel does not think settlements are an injustice.  It does not think expropriating and monopolizing land and water is injustice.  It does not think using vastly “superior” weaponry against a poor, half-starved population is injustice.
  So where to begin?  Who should offer what?  How can the dominators be brought to a sense of fairness, balance, proportion, justice when they permit the most ungenerous, militant, fearful sectors of their population to dominate national decision-making?
  There are small forces (consisting of Arabs, Jews, Christians and miscellaneous internationals) working in Israel and in Palestine together in small ways for peace. (Christian Peace Teams, Beth Shalom, The Other Israel, etc.)  Ask them, and listen to them.  They could probably help to start the process.
  But not on the basis of “no pre-conditions” at this late date in the history of events.