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New Trial in the Works for KSM

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Posted on Apr 4, 2012

Remember the name Khalid Sheik Mohammed? KSM, as he became known in the years after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, is still accused of masterminding those attacks a decade later and is still being detained at Guantanamo Bay, but Wednesday brought news of movement in his case.

The Washington Post:

A senior Pentagon official on Wednesday authorized a new trial for Khalid Sheik Mohammed and four others accused of orchestrating the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, a step that restarts the most momentous terrorism case likely to be held at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

[...] Military charges against the five men were re-sworn in June, and on Wednesday, retired Vice Adm. Bruce MacDonald, the official who oversees the commissions and is known as the Convening Authority, sent the case for trial after reviewing and approving those charges.

The men face multiple charges, including murder in violation of the law of war, attacking civilians, attacking civilian objects, hijacking aircraft and terrorism. If convicted, they could face the death penalty.

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By Anton, April 24, 2012 at 7:17 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

This is a nice sentiment, but I think it would have been a bigegr moment for the country if we had captured Osama alive, and I think the decision to kill instead of capture may have been at least SOMEwhat influenced by all the political pressure to try KSM in a court of law. More generally, after Boumediene, the last thing the administration wants is more terror detainees. It’s been widely noted that Obama has hugely stepped up the targeted drone killings in Pakistan and elsewhere in the Middle East since 2008 when Boumediene was decided, and I don’t think it’s a coincidence. No one knows exactly how many people have been killed, but it’s in the hundreds. There are other reasons for drone attacks   it’s claimed that there’s usually less collateral damage than you have with a ground invasion, and it obviously avoids putting U.S. troops in harm’s way. But there are a lot of moral objections that can be made to the drone attacks too   we’re killing people when they’re asleep or worshiping, and there IS collateral damage; we miss targets all the time. (Apparently we hit a funeral once.) And the Osama mission demonstrates that we’re pretty good at avoiding harm to U.S. troops even on the ground. (Of course, one might ask, why didn’t we just use a drone for Osama? I think it’s because we thought he’d be sitting on a treasure trove of evidence, and we didn’t want to destroy it.)Anyway, I think it’s nice to get all idealistic about bringing people to justice the real way, but you have to consider how these legal decisions/political pressures influence the executive at the front end. When you’re dealing with terrorist suspects and most of our evidence comes from confidential informants, the normal evidentiary procedures might not work so well. There’s a cost to all this. I think it’s pretty unsurprising that Osama was shot unarmed. Now the CIA can delve through the evidence in the confines of the Hoover Building and not have to worry about people crying for a trial.

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By heterochromatic, April 7, 2012 at 9:25 pm Link to this comment

dog—- another jackass video. bin Laden is photographed wearing a wrist watched
many times.


who was that guy spouting shit in the video?

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By blogdog, April 7, 2012 at 7:15 pm Link to this comment

RE: ...thin… (?!?!) - that would qualify the subject of this:

Real Proof The Government Released A Fake Video Of Osama Bin Laden!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W6QLfXE3wA

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By heterochromatic, April 7, 2012 at 2:29 pm Link to this comment

dog—- the Dubai hospital stay report is really thin…..and that not even Figaro
claims that the CIA guy ever met with bin Laden might say something.

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By blogdog, April 7, 2012 at 11:34 am Link to this comment

CIA agent alleged to have met Bin Laden in July French report claims terrorist leader stayed in Dubai hospital http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/nov/01/afghanistan.terrorism Anthony Sampson The Guardian, Wednesday 31 October 2001 22.17 EST Two months before September 11 Osama bin Laden flew to Dubai for 10 days for treatment at the American hospital, where he was visited by the local CIA agent, according to the French newspaper Le Figaro. The disclosures are known to come from French intelligence which is keen to reveal the ambiguous role of the CIA, and to restrain Washington from extending the war to Iraq and elsewhere.

Bin Laden is reported to have arrived in Dubai on July 4 from Quetta in Pakistan with his own personal doctor, nurse and four bodyguards, to be treated in the urology department. While there he was visited by several members of his family and Saudi personalities, and the CIA.

The CIA chief was seen in the lift, on his way to see Bin Laden, and later, it is alleged, boasted to friends about his contact. He was recalled to Washington soon afterwards.

Intelligence sources say that another CIA agent was also present; and that Bin Laden was also visited by Prince Turki al Faisal, then head of Saudi intelligence,  who had long had links with the Taliban, and Bin Laden. Soon afterwards Turki resigned, and more recently he has publicly attacked him in an open letter: “You are a rotten seed, like the son of Noah”.

[...]

________________________

AFGHANISTAN
http://tinyurl.com/2eac7gu
September 16, 2001

Islamic militant leader Osama bin Laden, the man the United States considers the prime suspect in last week’s terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, denied any role Sunday in the actions believed to have killed thousands.

In a statement issued to the Arabic satellite channel Al Jazeera, based in Qatar, bin Laden said, “The U.S. government has consistently blamed me for being behind every occasion its enemies attack it.

“I would like to assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks, which seems to have been planned by people for personal reasons,” bin Laden’s statement said.

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By heterochromatic, April 7, 2012 at 10:48 am Link to this comment

dog—- the material is old, outdated, exaggerated to
distortion.

a statement such as “the CIA has links to ISI” is
literally true but means nory a thing in that
intelligence agencies have links but do not share
interests or work in common other than when it suits
both….the CIA and ISI are not allied and open with
oeach other and ISI works with and against the
CIA…....


you repeatedly link to things proclaiming that the US
was working with bin Laden long ago as if it means
that they continued to work together and that bin
Laden didn’t brak with us and declare war against us.

dog, if you got food stamps in 1989 does that mean
the blogdog is currently in the pay of and working
for the Department of Agriculture?

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By blogdog, April 6, 2012 at 3:57 pm Link to this comment

CIA funds ISI – ISI funds Taliban, Al Qaeda July 27th, 2010 No Comments
Post By: chrisxstk on: July 27, 2010.
Wikileaks’ War Logs Highlight Global Intelligence Facade Of ‘War On Terror’ http://fdradio.com/2010/07/27/cia-funds-isi-–-isi-funds-taliban-al-qaeda/
Steve Watson - Infowars.com
Monday, Jul 26th, 2010

[...]

Before 9/11, Pakistan worked directly with the CIA to create the Taliban in Afghanistan. Selig Harrison from the Woodrow Wilson International Centre for Scholars stated:

“The CIA made a historic mistake in encouraging Islamic groups from all over the world to come to Afghanistan. The U.S. provided $3 billion for building up these Islamic groups, and it accepted Pakistan’s demand that they should decide how this money should be spent.

The old associations between the intelligence agencies continue. The CIA still has close links with the ISI (Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence).

Today that money and those weapons have helped build up the Taliban,  Harrison said. The Taliban are not just recruits from ‘madrassas’ (Muslim theological schools) but are on the payroll of the ISI. The Taliban are now “making a living out of terrorism.”

Harrison confirmed that the creation of the Taliban had been “actively encouraged by the ISI and the CIA and that Pakistan had been building up Afghan collaborators who would “sustain Pakistan”.

[...]

The US-Al Qaeda Alliance: Bosnia, Kosovo and Now Libya. Washington’s On-Going Collusion with Terrorists http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25829
by Prof. Peter Dale Scott - Global Research, July 29, 2011
The Asia-Pacific Journal Vol 9, Issue 31 No 1, August 1, 2011

[...]

That the U.S. would support al-Qaeda in terrorist atrocities runs wholly counter to impressions created by the U.S. media. Yet this on-going unholy alliance resurrects and builds on the alliance underlying Zbigniew Brzezinski’s 1978-79 strategy of provocation in Afghanistan, at a time when he was President Carter’s National Security Adviser.

[...]

Support for the mujahedin included collusion in law-breaking, at a heavy cost. In the second part of this essay, I will show how government protection of key figures in the Brooklyn al-Kifah Center left some of them free, even after they were known to have committed crimes, to engage in further terrorist acts in the United States—such as the first World Trade Center bombing in 1993.

[...]

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By heterochromatic, April 6, 2012 at 1:57 pm Link to this comment

they never loved Rambo…. they accepted help.


they’re nice spiritual guys who believe in Islamic supremacy, dog. they’re much
more comfortable with Pakistan’s ISI and the Saudis.

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By blogdog, April 6, 2012 at 12:41 pm Link to this comment

RE: Al Qaeda, question is this: who are their task masters, their paymasters, their
travel agents, etc.? Or, in other words, when did they quite loving Rambo?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3Iy47OiKM0&feature=related

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By heavyrunner, April 6, 2012 at 12:35 pm Link to this comment

Isn’t KSM the guy who confessed to betting on baseball while coaching the Reds after the 156th time he was waterboarded?


I would like to know how he got NORAD to stand down on 9/11/2001. Also, how did he coordinate the setting of explosives throughout the World Trade Towers and their detonation in synchrony on that fateful morning.

He looks like he would have trouble keeping the right air pressure in his bicycle tires.

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By heterochromatic, April 6, 2012 at 12:27 pm Link to this comment

dog—- nobody has to pretend that Al Qaeda and other groups of goons
exist….they are out there.

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By blogdog, April 6, 2012 at 11:03 am Link to this comment

...about what? -  the Global War Of Terror is the biggest
Psy-Op/Black-Op ever launched - it’s perpetuation is essential to the
hegemonic designs of the Global Finance Oligarchy - their most dreaded vision
is that scene from the Wizard of Oz, where the curtain is pulled back, revealing
the little man with his hands on the levers

Obama Warns Not To Challenge Official 9/11 Story
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuASoVK8f9c&feature=related

again, O’Bomber plays his role, mimics Shrub, invokes the bogyman Al Qaida,
but…

Are we arming/helping Al Qaeda in Libya?- Michael Scheuer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLGB_9aQAE8&feature=related

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By gerard, April 6, 2012 at 10:29 am Link to this comment

What is all this really about?

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By Robert, April 6, 2012 at 9:35 am Link to this comment

IMax...How is that “Go Right Young Man (GRYM)” doing? Have you seen him…lately…Hmmm?

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By blogdog, April 6, 2012 at 9:24 am Link to this comment

RE: ...why so many people believe in something they cannot prove?

indeed

TUE APR 21, 2009 AT 11:10 PM PDT
Torture is a Red Herring, KSM may be Dead
by The Anomaly - http://tinyurl.com/6vttczt

By continuously arguing aspects of the legality of torture, we may be
missing the bigger picture which is the gross lack of transparency in the
prosecution of terrorists.  For instance, the basic issue of the confirmation
of the identity of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed has been brought into
question.
  It was reported in Asia Times that on September 11, 2002
Shaikh Mohammed was killed in a joint ISI-FBI raid in Karachi, Pakistan.

[...]

ORIGINALLY POSTED TO THE ANOMALY ON TUE APR 21, 2009 AT 11:10 PM PDT.

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By IMax, April 6, 2012 at 9:05 am Link to this comment

Robert,

Thank you.  You have shown us once again how this has been reported.  Is there any question as to why so many people believe in something they cannot prove?

I can display thousands of the like.  But I cannot prove it to be correct.  Can you help?

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By IMax, April 6, 2012 at 8:55 am Link to this comment

vector56,

Perhaps if you begin proving some of your claims and accusations your concern for children will be better understood.

You’ve claimed Khalid Mohammad was water-boarded 183 times but have done nothing to prove the claim.  You further claim Khalid Mohammad’s two children too were tortured but, again, you’ve done nothing to prove the claim.

As an aside: Your attention and insistence that KSM’s children are, as you incessantly repeat for cheap effect, “brown”, is not only a horrible assumption but, tragically disgusting.  KSM’s children are not here on earth for you to exploit.

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By heterochromatic, April 6, 2012 at 8:45 am Link to this comment

Robert—- good for you to post the link to Marcy Wheeler on FDL..

I posted it here yesterday.

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By heterochromatic, April 6, 2012 at 8:41 am Link to this comment

vec—- I WOULD like to know….. I’m not deflecting it, I’m simply without a solid
idea.   


It could well be that the kids are still being held somewhere….or it could be that
they’re NOT in custody but in hiding or it could be something else.

 

Long time ago, someone told me that a prisoner’s kids were brought to him by
a CIA or FBI agent. The guy telling this to me said it was done to reassure the
prisoner that his captors were taking care of his family and would take care of
him if he co-operated.


I told this person that he was being naive and that it was far more likely that
the prisoner would take this to mean that his family were all prisoners and
likely to be harmed.

 

You’ve got me wrong about this stuff.. I truly believe that you avoid harming
children or you perpetuate warfare for generations.


You’ve no call to keep telling me that I believe that dark-skinned people’s lives
mean less and I would greatly appreciate an end to that.

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By Robert, April 6, 2012 at 8:22 am Link to this comment

CIA Waterboarded Khalid Sheikh Mohammed 183 Times In One Month

“FireDogLake:

I’ve put this detail in a series of posts, but it really deserves a full post. According to the May 30, 2005 Bradbury memo, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was waterboarded 183 times in March 2003 and Abu Zubaydah was waterboarded 83 times in August 2002.

Read the whole story: FireDogLake”


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/18/cia-waterboarded-khalid-s_n_188644.html

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By vector56, April 6, 2012 at 8:05 am Link to this comment

“vec—- let me respond simply to your convoluted attempt to impute racial
motivation to my comments.

you’re full of shit and being an ass.”


Again heterochromatic uses misdirection to not answer the question I put forth; What happen to KSM’s 11 year old and 7 year old children that were taken into CIA custody?

This is important because as Seymour Hersh suggest in his reporting that what the CIA and private contractors have done to KSM and a few others is only the tip of the iceberg; countless women and children have also “disappeared” into CIA Black sites only to be Murdered, Raped and Tortured.

Just to show how “cheap” Muslim life is to these guys ; below is a link to a vid I saw yesterday on Democracy Now of a Black Water convoy in Iraq swerving just to run over a woman crossing the street in a burka. 

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=876_1333701967&comments=1

The lives of KSM’s children are just as important as the lives of the 9/11 victims; those 3 Jewish children murdered in France, and the lives of the children most of you Cold Hearted monsters go home and tuck in bed at night. To not talk about what happen to KSM’s children is to participate in the coverup.

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By IMax, April 6, 2012 at 3:32 am Link to this comment

Robert,

Here’s the problem.  There’s a link to the IG report embedded in this thread.  What you’ve come to believe to be contained in this report are not actually in the report itself.  Do you not find that disturbing?

I don’t know from where your information was derived.  If memory serves the report itself is only forty pages.

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By Robert, April 5, 2012 at 11:22 pm Link to this comment

“Yet in arguing against the IG Report, Bradbury reveals much of what the IG Report finds so problematic. It reveals:

  CIA interrogators were not performing waterboarding as it had been approved in the August 2002 Bybee Memo; in particular, they were repeating the process more frequently (83 times for AZ and 183 for KSM) and using much more water than described in the Bybee Memo


By CIA’s own admission, they used waterboarding with Abu Zubaydah at a time when he was already completely compliant with interrogators

  No “objective” doctors had been involved in the interrogation sessions (the CIA subsequently added them to its program)

  It appears that after the CIA integrated doctors into the program, they lowered, by three and a half days, the length of time a detainee could be kept awake”

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By heterochromatic, April 5, 2012 at 9:00 pm Link to this comment

vec—- let me respond simply to your convoluted attempt to impute racial
motivation to my comments.


you’re full of shit and being an ass.

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By diamond, April 5, 2012 at 8:16 pm Link to this comment

“I’ve never seen a credible report documenting KSM being “water-boarded” 183 times.  This being one of your signature narratives I’m sure you’ve seen what I have not?  For the benefit of all now is the time.”

It’s not my narrative: it’s the narrative of the Pentagon and the CIA not to mention the Bush administration. How typical that you expect me to take responsibility for what those war mad, amoral, crazy as a loon hillbillies have done. Instead of chirping like a demented canary over whether KSM was waterboarded a million times or ‘merely’ 183 or maybe as some have suggested in various reports well over 200 times wouldn’t it make a lot more sense to consider WHY he was waterboarded again and again and again at all? Where is the evidence that this man did any of the things these reckless, degenerate economic illiterates say he did? I have never seen one shred of credible evidence that he had anything to do with either the planning or the execution of 9/11.  That explains why he was waterboarded, even by your own admission, almost 200 times because if they had the ‘goods’ and could have got a conviction on it they would not have needed to do anything they’ve done including arresting his minor children in order to use them against him. They also would not need to put him on trial in a kangaroo court but could have put him on trial for the crime of terrorism in a normal court of law. But, of course, they couldn’t do that because they don’t have the evidence to get a conviction.  One thing you should learn, Imax, because you don’t seem to know it, is that you can’t defend the indefensible and you also don’t hand down the conviction before you have the trial. They only do that in ‘Alice in Wonderland’ and witch trials.

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By vector56, April 5, 2012 at 7:55 pm Link to this comment

No, hetero; I don’t think so!  You and your intellectually dishonest buddy (IMax) can’t hide the fact that neither of you cold callous racist monsters could give less than a dam about what the CIA did with those two children.

KSM’s life obviously holds little value to those of your elk; you try and cover up your outright racism by hiding behind the new word for N*igger, Terrorist! How bigots like you and IMax (some say you are both the same person) must love this new age of renewed racism? An age where we are encouraged to speak openly about the outright murder of those we have labeled Terrorist; the fact that the “lynching” party is being lead by what passes as a Black man (Obama) probably makes the irony just that much sweeter for subhuman, knuckle dragging monsters like heterochromatic and IMax (a two head monster)?

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By heterochromatic, April 5, 2012 at 7:20 pm Link to this comment

vec——don’t tell me waht i value. that’s a bit too arrogant of you…. ignorant as
well.

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By vector56, April 5, 2012 at 7:07 pm Link to this comment

Fact: KSM two little “Brown” Children (ages 11 and 7) were picked up by the CIA.

Fact: neither child has been heard from since.

I realize their “little Brown” lives mean less than nothing to racist such as you IMax and heterochromatic.

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By IMax, April 5, 2012 at 5:27 pm Link to this comment

vector56, - “how many times was he subjected to American-Water-Torture? 183 times in one month. - I wrote a little piece awhile back about old KSM:”
_

Perhaps if you could assure us all that your first narrative is proven and factual we could lend more weight to your next theory concerning, what you see as, KSM’s “brown” children?

You make several weighty claims here.  Can you offer anything concrete?  Can you offer anything verifiable.

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By heterochromatic, April 5, 2012 at 5:14 pm Link to this comment

vec——maybe not really all the callous.

maybe someone who thinks that taking crimes of the parents out on children is a
sure way to insure that the world gets worse rather than better.

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By vector56, April 5, 2012 at 5:07 pm Link to this comment

“vec——where do you think the kids are/ “

heterochromatic; at least in your own callous way you posed the question; personally, I think they are both dead. The CIA had to cover up what they did, and a couple of non-white kids held little value in their eyes.

What is up with the rest of you rat bastards who don’t even feel that what happen to KSM kids is even worth talking about? IMax would rather distract us with the the number of times he was subjected ti “American Water Torture”.

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By IMax, April 5, 2012 at 5:02 pm Link to this comment

diamond, - “I promise to answer your question after a bit more time goes by.”

-

What a golden opportunity for you, diamond.  An opportunity to prove one of your global theories, yes?  And not just any theory, but rather, a truly fundamental and integral aspect of your theories.  I should think you would jump all over this.

I’ve never seen a credible report documenting KSM being “water-boarded” 183 times.  This being one of your signature narratives I’m sure you’ve seen what I have not?  For the benefit of all now is the time.

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By diamond, April 5, 2012 at 3:20 pm Link to this comment

“I promise to answer your question after a bit more time goes by.”

And pigs might fly. There goes one right now, his trotters just skimming the treetops. And if you don’t answer the question Imax, I must warn you that you could be waterboarded 200 times, especially if you don’t give the RIGHT answer. If you have children we will use them too, threaten them and maybe even torture or sexually assault them in front of you. If you have a wife, we can do the same thing to her and guess what? We are totally unaccountable for anything we do so don’t go squealing to the law because they can’t help you.

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By blogdog, April 5, 2012 at 3:03 pm Link to this comment

RE: ... Literally billions of people have been influenced on the subject of KSM -
his role, his value, his treatment while in custody, the indictments against him,
even whether or not the man breaths. ...

voila: a ‘legend’ bigger than life,  whose every ‘confessional’ word is
‘golden’, who required a world-record number of torture sessions to ‘give it up’ -
almost the best ‘theatre’ US taxpayers’ have yet to bankroll - OBL still gets ‘top
billing’, but when it’s ‘curtain time’ for the trial, KSM may ‘steal the spotlight’

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By jr., April 5, 2012 at 2:05 pm Link to this comment

KSM and the others could face the death penalty, but, obviously, american ethics is going to make certain it tortures them all, as much as humanly possible, before that time.

Don’t be surprised Mr. Hedges if your efforts receive the same standards and get lost in the process for decades before a decision is rendered.  The powers that be must have time to test their theories before any certainty can be decided.  That be the american way.

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By IMax, April 5, 2012 at 1:53 pm Link to this comment

hetero, - “Do you agree that he was boarded a whole lot?”

-

I promise to answer your question after a bit more time goes by.  I think a very important point needs to be made here.  Literally billions of people have been influenced on the subject of KSM - his role, his value, his treatment while in custody, the indictments against him, even whether or not the man breaths - is effected by a wide-spread narrative which I have yet been able to prove.

I’ve looked over archived TruthDig comments on this very subject spanning the past 2 years.  The belief that KSM was subjected to the technique nearly 200 times, used as a major indictment against the U.S. (and its case against the defendant), is near 100%.

If the most common narrative is true (183), then that fact alone would have real bearing on the case going to trial.  If, however, it is not true it should be given equal weight in people’s perceptions and deliberations.  Not only regarding KSM, but in how we view his roll, his capture, his claims of guilt and the important subject of how detainees are treated while in U.S. custody. - In a phrase: If true it changes everything.  If not it changes everything.  Or, to put it another way, if true everyone in the world should be made aware of it.  The same holds true if turns out to be an irresponsible and dangerous falsity.

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By heterochromatic, April 5, 2012 at 12:34 pm Link to this comment

IMax—- OK, I’ll stopped flogging the specific number.


Do you agree that he was boarded a whole lot?

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By IMax, April 5, 2012 at 11:44 am Link to this comment

hetero,

I appreciate your help.  Sincerely I do.  Particularly if you continue.

I’ve studied both the GC document and the IG report.  In each I found scads of useful and enlightening information.  More people should be privy to those documents.  But what do each of these documents not contain?  Neither report indicate that Khalid Mohammad had been water-boarded 183 times.

See what I’m getting at?  I have yet to find one credible source which supports what so many people believe.  The common belief that KSM had been water-boarded nearly 200 times.

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By heterochromatic, April 5, 2012 at 11:13 am Link to this comment

IMAX—- I’m being completely serious now… the CIA Inpsecter

General’s report isn’t credible enough for you?

and the Bradbury memo where it’s said that


The CIA used the waterboard extensively in the interrogations of KSM and
Zudbayduh”

http://tinyurl.com/ctw9nk


these are government docs, IMax…....what are you looking for?

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By blogdog, April 5, 2012 at 11:03 am Link to this comment

RE: ...KSM being “water-boarded” 183 times… - the legend grows

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By IMax, April 5, 2012 at 10:55 am Link to this comment

hetero,

I’ve never seen a credible report documenting KSM being “water-boarded” 183 times.  Moreover, each time I ask those who make the claim to provide credible evidence of the claim they have, without exception, come up wanting.

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By heterochromatic, April 5, 2012 at 10:47 am Link to this comment

how many times is too many, IM?

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By IMax, April 5, 2012 at 10:36 am Link to this comment

hetero,

Unfortunately, as you cannot produce this audio/video for the purposes of this inquiry, what you have is inconclusive, yes?

Does this video you have show KSM being water-boarded 1 time, 8 times, 183 times?

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By heterochromatic, April 5, 2012 at 10:36 am Link to this comment

dog——-  this gets to the heart of the problem

http://youtu.be/UwOr_Z7MeRI

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By heterochromatic, April 5, 2012 at 10:28 am Link to this comment

WHY? because my copy is a second-gen one snuck out by a disaffected gov’t agent
and possession of same is felonious as well as not being proof enough for those
who think that it’s of real import as to whether it was 183 times or 182 or 82.

my emphasis is on the fact that each instance was felonious and disgraceful.

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By blogdog, April 5, 2012 at 10:24 am Link to this comment

RE: ...truth… - only the spooks who create these legends know the truth
- the patsies, so often witless useful fools, don’t even know - and rarely can they
do the deeds we’re told they’ve done ( e.g. fly sophisticated airliners like fighter
pilots, as per Hani Hanjour)...

...instructors at the airfield in Maryland said, “It was like he had hardly even
ever driven a car. He could not fly at all.” ...yet, the official narrative of 9/11 asks
us to believe that Hanjour pulled off a stunt that would press the limits of even
the most experienced aviation test pilot.

http://www.911hardfacts.com/report_14.htm

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By IMax, April 5, 2012 at 10:19 am Link to this comment

hetero,

Why are you not sharing this video/audio and does it show Khalid Mohammed being water-boarded 183 times?

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By heterochromatic, April 5, 2012 at 9:56 am Link to this comment

vec——where do you think the kids are/ do you think that they were taken into
custody because their hair wasn’t blue and their eyes blonde?...or maybe there
were other non-chromatic considerations.

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By heterochromatic, April 5, 2012 at 9:53 am Link to this comment

the government agent says “that’s 183, guys. let’s knock off till next month and
see if we can’t set a new record.”


but the part where he says “three” is a little garbled.

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By IMax, April 5, 2012 at 9:45 am Link to this comment

Hetero, - “I have a videotape of the waterboardings with a guy counting off the number of instances that KSM’s breathing was interrupted…........”

-

Does it show Khalid Mohammed being water-boarded 183 times?

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By vector56, April 5, 2012 at 9:38 am Link to this comment

“I’m looking for tangible, credible, evidence that Khalid Mohammed was water-boarded 183 times. “

Any one but me wonders what IMax would consider “credible” evidence.

Again I ask about KSM’s two sons; any of you racist bastards give a rat’s ass as to what happen to an 11 year old and 7 year old that were taken into custody by our government?? If they had blonde hair and blue eyes would tug at your hearts a little more?

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By heterochromatic, April 5, 2012 at 9:27 am Link to this comment

IMax——I have a videotape of the waterboardings with a guy counting off the
number of instances that KSM’s breathing was interrupted…........


would that be about the level of proof you’re looking for or would you require a bit
more?

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By heterochromatic, April 5, 2012 at 9:20 am Link to this comment

dog—- your statement amounts to saying that the truth is less important than the
belief.


I found this statement completely consistent with your posts and the level of
things to which you link…. and might even, somehow, believe.

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By blogdog, April 5, 2012 at 9:14 am Link to this comment

KSM legend (captured or dead in 2002, then captured in 2003) as confused as that
of OBL (dead in 2001, again in 2011 w/many versions on tape in between) -
essential ‘legends’ that outlive themselves… live as long as they’re useful

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By IMax, April 5, 2012 at 9:09 am Link to this comment

Hetero, thecrow,

Thank you both for your help but I’m looking for tangible, credible, evidence that Khalid Mohammed was water-boarded 183 times.  What you both offered is what is most commonly found.  “Reports” of the claim.

As far as I am aware there are two credible accounts of the technique being used on Khalid Mohammed.  If you look closer you’ll find the reports you both located are based on these two accounts.  Neither account, however, makes the claims that KSM was water-boarded 183 times.

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By heterochromatic, April 5, 2012 at 8:57 am Link to this comment

dog—- the article from Syed Saleem Shahzad was from, as you noted, March
2003


by July 2004, Shahzad had become convinced that KSM was captured and in US
custody

 

 

“Jundullah was allegedly headed by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the al-Qaeda
operational commander of the September 11 terrorist attack in the US. He was
arrested in Pakistan early last year. “


http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/FG20Df05.html

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By blogdog, April 5, 2012 at 8:37 am Link to this comment

Terror Mastermind KSM is an Imposter - The Confession is Fake
March 16, 2007 - http://tinyurl.com/88cdabs

The U.S. government claims this man is Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of 9-11 and other terror atrocities.

The person who is said to be Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (KSM) clearly does not appear to be the person who masterminded the attacks of 911. It does not appear that he has ever masterminded anything. He seems to be an imposter, a feeble- minded “fall guy,” who has been tortured and whose mind has been manipulated in order to make these incredible claims.

[...]

“According to the local media, Khalid was seized while in the house of one Ahmed Abdul Qudoos, who, it turns out, is a mentally feeble person - he is also being held in custody as an al-Qaeda member - and as such receives a regular stipend from a United Nations organization,” - Pakistani journalist Syed Saleem Shahzad, early March 2003.  Source: Khalid: “A test for US credibility,” Syed Saleem Shahzad, March 6, 2003

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/EC06Df04.html

[...]

The person said to be KSM and Ahmed Abdul Qadus…

http://tinyurl.com/6t4776v

...The confessed terror mastermind is actually Ahmed Abdul Qadus. The real KSM was killed on September 11, 2002, as was reported in the Pakistani press at the time.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/DJ30Df01.html

[...]
This Ahmed Abdul Qadus is the person who is being presented to the world as Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. This is an imposter and the confession is a fraud - and the military and government know it.

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By heterochromatic, April 5, 2012 at 7:46 am Link to this comment

vec—- what we know about his kids is that we don’t know anything…... “possibly
murdered by the CIA” is rather a very large conclusion that you’re jumping off.,
possibly.

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By heterochromatic, April 5, 2012 at 7:39 am Link to this comment

IMax—- start here and follow back.

http://tinyurl.com/c4wqgj

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By thecrow, April 5, 2012 at 7:39 am Link to this comment

@IMax

“The C.I.A. officers used waterboarding at least 83 times in August 2002 against Abu Zubaydah, according to a 2005 Justice Department legal memorandum. Abu Zubaydah has been described as a Qaeda operative.

A former C.I.A. officer, John Kiriakou, told ABC News and other news media organizations in 2007 that Abu Zubaydah had undergone waterboarding for only 35 seconds before agreeing to tell everything he knew.

The 2005 memo also says that the C.I.A. used waterboarding 183 times in March 2003 against Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the self-described planner of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/20/world/20detain.html?pagewanted=print

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By vector56, April 5, 2012 at 6:07 am Link to this comment

“The million dollar question is:  Do we love OUR children?  If we did, what would we be doing? Why? “

heterochromatic, what the hell does your statement have to do with the CIA kidnapping KSM’s two small children and possibly murdering them to cover their tracks? What you are doing is trying to minimize the importance of what was done to those two children and redirect attention to children in general.


A 11 year old and a 7 year old disappears in CIA black site and no one wants to even talk about; I will ask again “Where are KSM’s two children?

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By IMax, April 5, 2012 at 6:01 am Link to this comment

I’ve never seen a credible report documenting KSM being “water-boarded” 183 times.  Moreover, each time I ask those who make the claim to provide credible evidence of the claim they have, without exception, come up wanting.  Any lack of credible evidence is not the incredible part.  What’s incredible, to me anyhow, is that those same people who have been unable prove the claim still repeat it.  Now that, I find, is incredible. - For the record: I am against water-boarding.  My personal feelings on employing the technique is not the point.

Also, those who have seen and heard Khalid Mohammed speak over the years are quite certain he is alive today.

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By thecrow, April 5, 2012 at 5:48 am Link to this comment

So you have a confession of responsibility “from A to Z” tortured from a man now mentally unfit to stand trial, a man whose CIA-filtered statements are the primary source of the Official conspiracy theory as related in the 9/11 Commission Report, which is itself this easily proven to be a fraud:

http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2011/11/11/pulverized-to-near-power/

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By blogdog, April 5, 2012 at 12:53 am Link to this comment

KSM is DEAD - as central to the Global War Of Terror as OBL - both
legends that may never die… die a thousand deaths and still be useful patsies

e.g.

from the telling article By Syed Saleem Shahzad
(himself abducted and brutally murdered in 2011) - http://tinyurl.com/7lftg7r

A chilling inheritance of terror - Oct 30, 2002

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/DJ30Df01.html

KARACHI - Ever since the frenzied shootout last month on September 11 in
Karachi there have been doubts over whether Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the
self-proclaimed head of al-Qaeda’s military committee, died in the police raid
on his apartment.

[...]

But now it emerges that an Arab woman and a child were taken to an ISI safe
house, where they identified the Shaikh Mohammed’s body as their husband
and father. The body was kept in a private NGO mortuary for 20 days before
being buried, under the surveillance of the FBI, in a graveyard in the central
district of Karachi.

The widow subsequently underwent exhaustive interrogation in the custody of
FBI officials, during which she revealed details of people who visited her
husband, and of his other contacts and plans. News of the death of Khalid
Shaikh Mohammed was intentionally suppressed so that officials could play on
the power of his name to follow up leads and contacts.

[...]

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By diamond, April 5, 2012 at 12:08 am Link to this comment

The reason they can never give this man a fair trial within the normal framework of the rule of law is that he was waterboarded over 200 times and THAT is all the evidence they have. Tortured evidence is banned and cannot be used in a normal court of law. Therefore the only way they can put him on trial is in a kangaroo court where they already know that he will be found guilty. Whatever guilty means in this particular context. Think about it: over 200 times. If they had any evidence that would stand up in a court of law - if, in other words, they had genuine evidence they would never have had to waterboard him over 200 times to wring a ‘confession’ out of him. Clearly they had no evidence and they still have no evidence that an ethical judge wouldn’t feel bound to throw out. The fact that they’re using his young sons to force him to ‘confess’ also is sickening but completely part of their modus operandi. I no longer feel disgust for the creatures behind all this: all I feel now is contempt.

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By heterochromatic, April 4, 2012 at 9:03 pm Link to this comment

gerard—- do you have children?

what have you done for them that you think we might all benefit from by doing for
ours?

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By gerard, April 4, 2012 at 8:53 pm Link to this comment

The million dollar question is:  Do we love OUR children?  If we did, what would we be doing? Why?

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By heterochromatic, April 4, 2012 at 7:22 pm Link to this comment

vec—- not a distinct category of persons, just a group at risk…....Aafia Siddiqui’s
kids and others.


yeah, they probably do love their kids just like most folks.

Nizar Rayyan of Hams probably loved his children although he sent one of his
sone out as a suicide bomber.

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By vector56, April 4, 2012 at 7:10 pm Link to this comment

“questions and concern for “disappeared” and abused
children of terrorists and terror suspects “

“Children of Terrorist” now there a new category. Hell, I thought they were just “children”?

I wonder, do “Terrorist” love their children the same we “normal” humans do?

Who cares if the CIA took an 11 year old and a 7 year old out back and put a bullet in their heads; the ocean is a great place to get rid of unwanted bodies.

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By El_Pinguino, April 4, 2012 at 6:51 pm Link to this comment

One disturbing aspect of this article is: “A senior Pentagon official on Wednesday authorized a new trial for…”

The military justice system.

Do you think when they label American citizens *terrorists* and arrest them under the NDAA that they will see a civilian judge? (if in fact they ever actually see anyone again)

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By heterochromatic, April 4, 2012 at 6:37 pm Link to this comment

vec—- those are questions that Wheeler (and her
commenters)  have raised.

I think that you’ll be quite attuned to all the
questions and concern for “disappeared” and abused
children of terrorists and terror suspects
there…particularly from attorney/commenter/sometimes
author Mary

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By vector56, April 4, 2012 at 6:32 pm Link to this comment

I will make it a point of checking Marcy Wheeler out; but that still does not answer the question of what happen to Yousef al-Khalid, nine, and his brother, Abed al-Khalid, seven who were picked up by the CIA and never heard from since?

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By heterochromatic, April 4, 2012 at 6:23 pm Link to this comment

I’ll add that Marcy’s work on KSM was outstanding and
her Emptywheel blog was the best thing ever on
firedoglake and the blog continues to thrive on its
own.

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By heterochromatic, April 4, 2012 at 6:20 pm Link to this comment

vec—- Jim White is not the guy to go to for this…..
Marcy Wheeler, formerly of FDL, IS the person who dug
through the documents and uncovered the severity of the
torture that was administered to KSM.

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By vector56, April 4, 2012 at 6:16 pm Link to this comment

Khalid Sheik Mohammed; how many times was he subjected to American-Water-Torture? 183 times in one month.

I wrote a little piece awhile back about old KSM:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/11/07/1033911/-The-Face-of-Evil

The above is from a Post by Jim White (FDL):

http://my.firedoglake.com/...

“Two young sons of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the suspected mastermind of the September 11 attacks, are being used by the CIA to force their father to talk.

Yousef al-Khalid, nine, and his brother, Abed al-Khalid, seven, were taken into custody in Pakistan last September when intelligence officers raided a flat in Karachi where their father had been hiding.”

“There will be no way to put this awful episode of torture behind us until we know where the children of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed are and if they have been mistreated while in US custody. As I pointed out this diary, two children of Aafia Siddiqui also are missing. ”

So, yes lets give old KSM a trial before we kill him; not much left of his mind at this point anyway.

Hell, maybe we might even find out what happen to his two sons?

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By heterochromatic, April 4, 2012 at 5:38 pm Link to this comment

I had hoped that he and the others would be tried in
federal court in NYC.

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