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Ear to the Ground

Most Americans Support Arizona Immigration Law

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Posted on May 3, 2010

Give us your tired and your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, because we already have an abundance of selfish, mean xenophobes. Polls show that most Americans support Arizona’s new immigration law, which makes it criminal to accept the Statue of Liberty’s invitation.

A new CBS News-New York Times poll found that 51 percent of those surveyed agreed that the methods of the Arizona law are “about right.” That backs up an earlier Gallup poll that found that 51 percent of Americans who had heard of the law favor it.  —PZS

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By Rafael, May 27, 2010 at 8:08 pm Link to this comment

And J7 What do you think is going to make a person suspicious for an officer? Obviously some people like you live in Alice in Wonderland.
Am being discriminated before because my accent and cause I look latino before. I remembered when I showed my driver license my first day looking for a job in the F.E. Warren AFB in Wyoming ..... The lady saw the I.D. from P.R. in Spanish and English and the first thing she ask me was I this legal? What a ignorant! and you can find a lot of people like that but after 5 years I really don’t care and I don’t get upset. The only way way a cop can suspect about somebody and make him or her think is from other country is there accent. Most Illegal are mexicans and south americans (latinos) so there is going to be a lot of cops that use that for excuse to ask for ViSA or prove of citizenship. They already doing that and this law is giving them one more excuse. I can not say all cops are bad because there are not all bad but believe me there are some waiting anxious for this law to take effect. This is the reality for most latinos and you need to be latino to understand all things we have to deal with in this country.

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By J707, May 18, 2010 at 11:37 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

@dissentispatriotic:

“I would not support the policy that you mentioned, but not because I think that
it is a bad idea. Simply because I don’t think it would single-handedly solve
the problem.”

Im not saying it would.  Audits and jail time for CEOs dont single-handedly solve corporate embezzlement either.  It would, however, be a massive deterrant to employers.  The vast majority would not risk having to pay those kinds of fines.  And I think you miscalculate the cost vs. benefits of enforcing such a policy.  Similar stings are pulled everyday on prostitutes and drug users.  The exorbitant fines would be a source of revenue and you have to remember, these are taxes that ARENT being paid by that employer and employee in the first place.

I think the idea that “our economy cannot function” without illegal labor is simply false.  Our economy most certainly can function with everyone being paid a legal wage for their work, and citizenship status has nothing to do with what kind of job people will be willing to do.  Regardless of how often this is repeated, the ethnic diversity of workers in all job fields in this country just dont bear out the claim that there are somehow jobs that citizens wont do.  There are, however, wages and working conditions that citizens will not put up with- because they dont have to, and they have legal standing against an employer who tries to get away with it.  Illegal immigrants dont, and they are preyed upon for it by employers seeking bigger profits.  I dont think this should be tolerated and certainly not construed as somehow vital.


“Lastly, the reason that I choose to use the term immigrant or undocumented
worker rather than “illegal” or “alien” is because I think that those terms
contribute to a negative stereotyping of the people. If we are to seriously
address this issue I don’t believe that vilifying the undocumented works is
necessary. It only contributes to further animosity and xenophobia.”

The reason I use the term “illegal immigrant” is because that is what these people are.  I cant draw a venn diagram to show why this is the most accurate term, but suffice it to say, not all illegal immigrants are “undocumented workers.”  Some of them (obviously not the majority) are actually not workers at all.  Some of them are refugees, fugitives, criminals, inmates in our prison systems, etc., but none of this is important- the thing they do all have in common is having immigrated to the country (or stayed in it) illegally, hence “illegal immigrant.”  The term isnt as derogatory as you seem to think…it is simply a matter of fact.  I dont use the term “immigrant” because it clouds the issue in a purposefully dishonest and evasive fashion, conflating the plight of illegal immigrants with that of legal immigrants in order to buttress claims that enforcing immigration laws is “anti-immigrant” and “racist.”  I know enough recent immigrants personally and how they feel about this issue not to equate them and their years of hard work to become taxpaying citizens with those that did not. 

“Illegal immigrant” is not a “negative stereotype,” simply by virtue of the very definition of what a stereotype is.  It is an accurate descriptor which applies to a very particular group being discussed.  “Immigrant” and “undocumented worker” are PC terms which deliberately confuse the entire issue.

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By J707, May 18, 2010 at 10:57 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

@Rafael:

Your post- again, even though this has been cleared up already- presumes that the law authorizes racial profiling and enables police to stop anyone based on how they look or talk.  This is simply not true. 

The law allows law enforcement to determine whether someone already detained for a separate violation is in the country illegally or not.  To construe that as racist policy is simply ridiculous.  Race is not a determinant of citizenship.  Not speaking the predominant language AND/OR having no identification when detained by authorities are grounds for suspicion and that applies in ANY country no matter what color you are.

I am descended from both african slaves and indigenous native americans.  I only point that out because I fail to see how previous racist policies towards blacks in this country have anything at all to do with this, or how you can draw any parallel between illegal immigrants and black americans.

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By Rafael, May 15, 2010 at 12:18 pm Link to this comment

The law enable police to act like inmigration officers so they can stop everyone who they suspect is an illegal. Even if they only ask the people who commit violations such as traffic, which people is going to be suspect of being illegals? Foreign people of course legal or illegals! Any person that thinks is not going to be this kind of ratial profiling is being living in Alice in Wonderland. The comparation with the Nazi Germany is a little exagerated I know. Maybe the fight of african americans could be the best comparasion. i understand that illegal inmigration can be a problem for some people and I get their points even they sound a little prejudice. Look another example here ..... What about if I have a car problem by the road in Arizona, What you people or most people are going to do? Are they gonna help me? Or cause I look latino, people are going to think Im an illegal and because the law their gonna think twice before helping me because fear on being arrested? If i decided to help some latino o foreign on the side of the road, do you guys think am gonna ask him, hey dude show me your papers so i can feel free of help you? 
Obviously people is thinking in a lot of other problems cause by illegal inmigration and forgetting all the more other problems is going to cause.
i’m from Puerto Rico so am a citizen cause P.R. is a U.S. territory. But am latino so am very worry about this law. I only have my license with me but I puertoricans never being obligated to have proof of citizenship required by this law or V.I.S.A.  What the authorities are going to do in this case?
I saw a show talking about this subject in Univision (Hispanic channel). But for about an hour people were just fighting about politics and creating more hate against each other that explaining this to the people. This made me very sad. Latinos groups hating other latino groups that made me very sad. People expressing anger like the hate expressed agaianst african americans years ago. This is not the country I want for my family.

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By dissentispatriotic, May 14, 2010 at 12:02 am Link to this comment

RE: call me roy, May 13 at 11:58 pm

That’s ridiculous. No one is buying it. Your post shows a huge lack of
understanding of this issue. Your idea is cute and all, but people don’t
leave a privileged nation to look for work in a disadvantaged one. Why are
you trying to divert the issue and spread distrust? It does not help solve
the problem. What I really want to know is other the misleading sarcasm
what is your actual suggestion to address this issue?

You post also shows a complete lack of cultural understanding. There are
many LEGAL immigrants for whom English is their second language and these
bilingual programs would be in place regardless. There is nothing wrong
with bilingual teachers, language assistance for students, or people.

We pay a relatively modest price for the social services used by
undocumented workers when you consider that WE ARE EXPLOITING THEM FOR
CHEAP LABOR. And many are here on expired visas and are still paying
taxes. People please don’t fall for this “they are a drain on our economy”
clap-trap. It is simply political propaganda pushing the immigration
debate for the 2010 mid-term elections. 

Undocumented workers are not the enemy of the American people. Lets all
say it together. Undocumented workers are not the enemy of the American
people.

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By call me roy, May 13, 2010 at 7:58 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

MOVING TO MEXICO

Dear President Obama:
I’m planning to move my family and extended family into Mexico for my health, and I would like to ask you to assist me. We’re planning to simply walk across the border from the U.S. into Mexico , and we’ll need your help to make a few arrangements. We plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas and laws. I’m sure they handle those things the same way you do here. So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Calderon, that I’m on my way over? Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:

1. Free medical care for my entire family.
2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need, whether I use them or not.
3. Please print all Mexican Government forms in English.
4. I want my grand-kids to be taught Spanish by English-speaking (bi-lingual) teachers.
5. Tell their schools they need to include classes on American culture and history.
6. I want my grand-kids to see the American flag on one of the flag poles at their school.
7. Please plan to feed my grand-kids at school for both breakfast and lunch.
8. I will need a local Mexican driver’s license so I can get easy access to government services.
9. I do plan to get a car and drive in Mexico , but I don’t plan to purchase car insurance, and I probably won’t make any special effort to learn local traffic laws.
10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from their president to leave me alone, please be sure that every patrol car has at least one English-speaking officer.
11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my housetop, put U S. flag decals on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any complaints or negative comments from the locals.
12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, or have any labor or tax laws enforced on any business I may start.
13. Please have the president tell all the Mexican people to be extremely nice and never say critical things about me or my family, or about the strain we might place on their economy.
14. I want to receive free food stamps.
15. Naturally, I’ll expect free rent subsidies.
16. I’ll need income tax credits so that although I don’t pay Mexican taxes, I’ll receive money from the government.
17. Please arrange it so that the Mexican Government pays $4,500.00 to help me buy a new car.
18. Oh yes, I almost forgot, please enroll me free into the Mexican Social Security program so that I’ll get a monthly income in retirement.
I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things for all his people who walk over to the U.S. from Mexico . I am sure that President Calderon won’t mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely.
Thank you so much for your kind help.

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By dissentispatriotic, May 13, 2010 at 5:23 pm Link to this comment

RE: J707, May 10 at 10:26 pm

I will always admit when I was wrong and I was wrong to respond to your comment
that way. Indeed you were correct that my rant itself was not a productive way
to move the debate forward. I am a little high strung and have very strong
feelings on this issue. I apologize. I hope that we can continue our
conversation and that my last two part post cleared up my position on some of
this debate. I would like to comment on the solution included in your last
post.

I would not support the policy that you mentioned, but not because I think that
it is a bad idea. Simply because I don’t think it would single-handedly solve
the problem. But also because the cost of an enforcement agency large enough to
protect the borders and to carry that out would be staggering. It would
certainly outweigh any supposed financial benefit of catching and deporting
people. It would also be easy for employers to falsify documents or to keep a
lookout and hide employees who are undocumented.

As my previous post stated I also believe that even with a wall at the border
people would find a way in, most likely at the same rate that they can be
deported. So the costs of these mass deportations would be an endless drain on
resources not unlike the war on drugs. A constant flow of tax dollars to shore
up an intrinsically endless problem. Does this mean that we shouldn’t have drug
and immigration laws and enforcement? Of course not. It just means that there
are smarter ways to do it.

I want to clear up my position on the valuable nature of the work done by
undocumented workers. I am concerned that I gave you the impression that I was
o.k. with the exploitation of undocumented people. I am not. I was pointing out
that our economy cannot work without the labor and jobs that they are doing. I
don’t believe that this idea excludes the possibility of paying them a legitimate wage. In fact, that’s why I support a reasonable amount of amnesty.
It is just to say that it is ironic that we depend on them so greatly and show
no appreciation, only animosity.

Lastly, the reason that I choose to use the term immigrant or undocumented
worker rather than “illegal” or “alien” is because I think that those terms
contribute to a negative stereotyping of the people. If we are to seriously
address this issue I don’t believe that vilifying the undocumented works is
necessary. It only contributes to further animosity and xenophobia.

Again, I hope that my words are not responsible for ending our debate and I
look forward to your response. Even if it upsets me greatly.

Thank you.

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By dissentispatriotic, May 13, 2010 at 4:32 pm Link to this comment

PART I

There is so much misrepresentation surrounding this debate. In one of the
posts I read, “Arizona could have survived the relentless surge of illegal
immigrants”. While there always may be people trying to cross our southern
border, this clearly gives the impression that the number of undocumented
workers in the US is always on the incline, and that one day we will be
totally overrun. According to the Department of Homeland Security web-
site, under the INS immigration statistics tab, the number of undocumented
workers in this country has stayed fairly consistent since 2005(10.5
million in 2005). In fact, the overall number has declined by about one
million, since late 2007, in response to the economic downturn in the
US(10.8 million now). There is a point of maximum saturation consistent
with the number of jobs available. In addition, the US and Mexican border
is not the primary entry point for most of the undocumented workers
here(the #1 would be staying after a visa expired). Does this mean that
there is no public safety issue or debate to be had about border safety?
Of course not. It simply demonstrates that we are only arguing the most
controversial part of the debate, during this important mid-term election
year, and that fear is powerful.

The next most common misrepresentation would be that having the police ask
for an I.D. is no big deal or inconvenience if it is in the name of
national security(i.e. airport security). But imagine that you had to go
through airport security just to leave your house every single day of your
life. For many Latino American citizens this is a real and legitimate
fear. They are indistinguishable in appearance from targeted undocumented
populations so their civil rights will most certainly be put in jeopardy
should we implement gestapo style mass deportation. Just put yourself in
their shoes. “Detained” on the way to the store. Fingerprinted heading to
the gym. Arrested because you left your wallet at home and you LOOK and
sound like one of those damn “illegals”. The terms reasonable suspicion
and probable cause are already stretched for racial profiling. The Arizona
law simply gives carte blanche to law enforcement to interpret even more
loosely these already subjective definitions.

The third most common misrepresentation is that undocumented workers are
draining our economy by using social services and taking our jobs. The
terrible irony here is that it is we who are exploiting them as cheap
labor. By definition, an exploited population cannot be taking advantage
of the population exploiting them. Do the math for yourself. If there are
10.8 million undocumented workers here, that means that for every billion
dollars spent it breaks down to about $100 per person. For every 10
billion it would be about $1,000 per person and so on. The Center for
Immigration Studies reported in 2004: “Households headed by illegal aliens
imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the federal government in 2002
and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal deficit of
almost $10.4 billion, or $2,700 per illegal household. Spread that $2,700
per year per household over all of the paychecks in each household and we
are still paying them less than we would a US citizen for the same job.
Making us the exploiters and them the exploited. Notice too that many
undocumented workers, visas expired or border crossers, are still paying
taxes. In 2004 about $16 billion worth. So amnesty and a CLEAR path to
citizenship for most of the people already here as well as serious
revision and lock down of our visa system may be the only way to bring
this problem under control. That would force employers to pay a
competitive American wage to all and we would be able to eliminate the tax
deficit.

CONTINUED….

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By dissentispatriotic, May 13, 2010 at 4:29 pm Link to this comment

PART II

Another big misrepresentation is that Latino immigrant communities are
characterized by drugs and violence. The Central American drug cartels
are a bi-product of our own failed drug policies. South American drugs
manufactured for the US market have put countries like Mexico and El
Salvador in the crossfire. While this does not excuse anyone who chooses
to commit violence against another, it is important cultural context. It
helps to dispel the xenophobic myth that drugs and crime are somehow
intrinsic to the Central American people or culture. People of all
ethnicities and cultures are equally capable of committing atrocities and
we are not without complicity in the Central American drug and gang
epidemic.

In conclusion, undocumented workers did break the law whether upon entry
or by staying after a visa expired. But that does not mean that it would
be healthy for our country to treat them like criminals through mass
deportation. They are human beings simply looking for a better life for
their families. They are hard workers, with valuable skills, who are
already contributing to this society in many positive ways. The debate
needs to be about our visa system and about what is a dignified and
humane way to address the population already here. In my opinion
indiscriminate mass deportation does not successfully address either in a
reasonable way. It will only cause us to cut off our own noses to spite
our face. It will violate the rights of many American citizens. It will
further exploit the exploited and split up families. It will increase
cultural and racial animosity and violence while driving a further wedge
between our two great cultures. It does not embody the spirit of the
constitution or liberty. Most importantly it will not solve the problem.

In addition, if we rebuild the Great Wall of China along our border
people will still find a way in(mostly through the cracks in our visa
system) and probably at the same rate that we can deport them. So let’s
forget this politically motivated attempt to scare Americans and address
this crucial issue with common sense and compassion.

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By J707, May 12, 2010 at 10:40 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

@Rafael:

Where do you get the impresssion that the law enables police to stop and harass people because of their appearance or accent?  It doesnt.  It allows police who are already interrogating someone for another violation (from traffic violations to robbery, etc) to ask the suspect for proof of their citizenship or valid visa.  If the person cannot provide this, the police can then call ICE.  This is the sort of policy followed by almost any country in the world- including mexico, central and south american countries.

When did anyone in this thread attack “latinos overall?”  I’ll say it again- ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION is the issue here, not people’s race.  Some of the 9/11 hijackers were mideasterners who were not supposed to be in the country at the time.

—“I hate when people said that government is wasting money teaching us a second language. What about the legals right to learn and by productive in this country.”—

Legal immigrants do have a right to learn and be productive in this country.  I should point out that part of learning and being productive in an english speaking country is learning to speak english- and most legal immigants do work hard to do this.  But again, the issue here is not legal immigrants- it is ILLEGAL immigrants who send their children to taxpayer-funded public schools and/or receive treatment at hospitals at the expense of taxpaying citizens.  Personally I know full well what kind of money and extra work this costs public schools, teachers, doctors and nurses.  Again- other countries dont allow this and there is a good reason; taxpayer-funded social programs are supposed to benefit the taxpaying citizens of that country.  If people who dont pay into that system with income taxes and all other taxes are allowed to utilize the social programs those taxes create, then infrastructure starts to break down and local governments lose huge amounts of money.  Then the system doesnt work for anybody as it should.

“Arrest people who help illegals?”  I dont call paying someone an illegally low wage and no job benefits or worker’s comp knowing that they have no legal recourse against you “helping” them.  That is what is called worker exploitation and violating workers’ rights.  It has been an ongoing battle all over the world and we shouldnt allow employers to turn the clock back to 1900 under some guise of “compassion.”  Compassion and “helping” have nothing to do with taking advantage of cheap labor.  And what about American businesses who pay their employees legal wages and payroll who find they cant compete with those who are paying illegaly low wages to desperate workers? 

I’ll ask again (and anybody feel free to answer this)...do you really think this is okay?  Or should employers who break workplace laws and minimum wage laws be prosecuted for it?  You need to realize that you cant have it both ways.  Either you are against this exploitation of a desperate second class of illegal immigrants or you are willing to live with it…but if you choose the latter, dont try calling it “compassion.”  It isnt. 

Likening Arizona to Nazi Germany for this law, no matter how often the historically-challenged try to do it to buttress their argument, is simply ludicrous.  If you think the enforcement of citizenship and naturalization laws makes a country or sovereign state into Nazi Germany…then you need to protest Canada, Mexico, south and central american countries, France, Spain, the United Kingdom, Italy, Germany itself, and pretty much every other country in the world FIRST…because they all have MUCH stricter immigration laws and enforcement than the United States.

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By dissentispatriotic, May 12, 2010 at 5:41 am Link to this comment

RE: Rafael, May 11 at 9:44 pm

Muy bien dicho mi amigo. I’m glad you interjected your opinion. This
thread needs that kind of good common sense. Hope you come back
sometime. I’ll keep an eye out.

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By Rafael, May 11, 2010 at 5:44 pm Link to this comment

I can not support any law that take away the freedom of my family to go everywhere we want without being bother by cops or security. The airport is completely different, they can search me all they want. The problem I have with this law is that is affecting people that are here legally. So now your race and accent can be reason to be stop by a cop? I hate when people used this debate to attack inmigrants and latinos overall. Latinos we are not the reason of all crime in the world, or the deseases of the country ..... This can come from everywhere and race. We are not ignorants cause we speak spanish, because most of us are very fast learners and get the english right away. Am not taking jobs from anybody. Is not my fault that people don’t go to college and then want a job that pays more than $12 /h. They don’t want to be gardeners, cleaning houses, construction, etc.
I hate when people said that government is wasting money teaching us a second language. What about the legals right to learn and by productive in this country. In this blog am listening to people that sound not only anti-illegal inmigrant but anti-inmigrant overall. So also you gonna arrest people that help illegals. Sometimes latinos help each other without asking for legality. If we help a ilegal and get cought we going to jail too right? Like the jews with the GErmans? I hope this law doesnot cause more ratial tension because is hard to deal with the ratial tension already. I hope this doesnot end in another nazi era.

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By J707, May 10, 2010 at 6:26 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

@dissentispatriotic:

Whether you choose to abandon the conversation claiming such blatant and pointed offense to you personally is immaterial, since nothing of the sort was ever done.  So I’ll respond to your outrages anyway.

I never once called you “anti-immigrant” (can we drop this silly term please; we are talking about ILLEGAL immigration here, not “immigrants” in general). 

You DID make very clear (and not just once) that you considered the cheap labor performed by illegal immigrants to be invaluable and vital to the economy.  This would lead one to believe that- on this specific issue at hand- you would oppose deporting illegal immigrants on the grounds that we need their labor…specifically as opposed to the labor of American citizens.

Now since you’ve asked me for my own ideas or solutions…I support law enforcement making visits to american businesses and workplaces and asking the employer (not the workers) for their employees’ documentation.  For every non-citizen that employer is hiring without workers’ comp, payroll, social security, medicare, and all a legal wage to an american citizen would entail, I say fine that employer 5 to $10,000 per person.  The illegal immigrant workers themselves would be left alone entirely.  Would you support such policy?

Im happy that you are a “community organizer working towards immigration reform,” whatever that specifically means.  Im not going to provide you my own ostentatious resume and drag this discussion into the personal, the one-upping, and the ad-hominem, but suffice it to say that my life and my experience with immigrants both legal and illegal involves much more than posting on a blog. 

That you feel the need to call all of this into question or boast about what you do in your personal life is confusing.  It does not advance the discussion at hand at all.  What would advance the discussion is if, rather than going on an emotional rant, you simply clarified why- in defense of amnesty for illegal immigrants- you repeatedly underscored the american economy’s exploitation of them for cheap labor and called it “invaluable,” if you in fact oppose it so strongly.

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By dissentispatriotic, May 10, 2010 at 11:07 am Link to this comment

RE: J707, May 10 at 2:23 pm

I don’t know why I would respond to smarmy arrogant condescension. But
here it goes.

You paraphrased the things that I said inaccurately. I never justified “the mass exploitation of over 10 million desperate workers as cheap
labor with no legal recourse or proper workers’ rights justifies itself
because I can buy cheaper produce”? I never even came close. In fact I am
pro-amnesty for many of the undocumented workers here because of the
labor and human rights violations. The irony of painting me as anti-
immigrant or as bigoted is that I am a community organizer working for
humane immigration reform. What the F%#k have you done other that post on
a blog?

Undocumented workers are a valuable work force who pushes our economy
forward. That statement does not exclude paying them a living wage. It is
just to say that it would be foolish to support gestapo style mass-
deportation.

You don’t read very well, so let me clear up just one more thing.
American’s pick up a relatively modest bill for services rendered to
undocumented workers, when you consider that while they are here we
EXPLOIT them for cheap labor. I stand by that. the phrases that you
conveniently skimmed over are “relatively modest” and “when you consider”
add those clauses and read it again Homer.

I will not be responding to any more of your posts. Because the
conversation that you want to have is not productive to the issue. Rather
than just trying to pick apart other people’s opinions, try having one of
your own. I didn’t hear a single SOLUTION to the problem and you made no
debatable argument.

Goodbye.

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By J707, May 10, 2010 at 10:23 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

@Virginia777: “the only reason that most Americans are anti-immigrant, is that right-wing media has been given total freedom to spread extremism - via brain-washing techniques - all across our country. The radio, the t.v., the internet, the works!!

As long as we continue to allow - and I mean Allow - them to do this, we can count on America becoming an extremist country.”

Nonsense.  I personally know of two families who just finished a very long and arduous and expensive naturalization process so that they and their families could finally call themselves taxpaying American citizens.  Obviously none of these people are “anti-immigrant”- they are immigrants themselves…but they vehemently oppose ILLEGAL immigration and extending social services to people who are not supposed to be in the country they just worked so hard to become a citizen of. 

Second, your characterization of America as some sort of “extremist,” immigrant-hating country is frankly as outrageous as it is categorically false.  America looks the other way and allows illegal immigrants to utilize social services and remain in the country more than almost any other country in the world, and that is a FACT.  I would like to see you sneak into (or overstay your visa in) Canada, Mexico, or any European country.  Take up indefinite residence there.  Send your children to THAT country’s taxpayer-funded schools.  Access that country’s taxpayer-funded social and welfare programs.  Do all of this in a country of your choice without going through a strict naturalization/citizenship process.  Try and see how long that lasts before you are spotted for looking and talking different, asked for your paperwork, and immediately jailed and deported.  THEN you can call America an “extremist country” all you want for having such lax immigration enforcement and allowing illegal immigrants to access taxpayer-funded social programs, medical care, and education.

@dissentispatriotic:
“Most undocumented workers did not break the law upon entering this country.
MOST CAME HEAR LEGALLY ON A WORK VISA AND THEN STAYED.”

And the moment they stayed- they broke the law.


“in fact their
labor is an invaluable resource that pushes and vitalizes our economy every
day.”

So the mass exploitation of over 10 million desperate workers as cheap labor with no legal recourse or proper workers’ rights justifies itself because I can buy cheaper produce?


“Besides what gave your family more of a right than theirs to dream of a
better life in the US? Do you think that you made it here because you are
more intelligent, harder working, or more savvy to the system than they are?
Or can you accept that your family simply got lucky and theirs didn’t.”

Luck has nothing to do with spending years and going through mountains of paperwork and fees so that your family can call themselves American citizens.


“American’s pick up a relatively modest bill for services rendered to
undocumented workers, when you consider that while they are here we EXPLOIT
them for cheap labor.”

That bill isnt as modest as you think. Ask any prison warden or any public schoolteacher with ESL students. 


“Our economy would not be what it is without that labor.
We are taking advantage of them. Not the other way around.”

You are right to point this out, though you are wrong to deny that illegal immigrants are also taking advantage of taxpaying American citizens by utilizing social services and education.  What really baffles me is that while you rightly acknowledge their exploitation and routine infringements of workers’ rights, you seem okay with it.


“The problem is not the
guy washing dishes down the street. He contributes more hard work every day
than many citizens. It is the attitude that causes people to treat him as a
subhuman that is the bigger concern to me.”

But paying him as a subhuman- knowing he has no legal recourse against his employer- is fine?

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By Hernan Cortes, May 9, 2010 at 8:08 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Sorry for my bad english.

These are some of the existing immigration laws in Mexico.

“A native Mexican citizen may detain an immigrant for you to take the police and sport.

“If you are a foreigner in Mexico can be expelled from the country” DANGER IS THE MEXICAN ETNIA in terms of demographics “

“In Mexico, an immigrant can be deported if they criticize the government.


Im support arizona from Spain

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By dissentispatriotic, May 7, 2010 at 1:22 pm Link to this comment

G Ramirez:

Amendment:

The problem is NOT the guy washing dishes down the street.

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By dissentispatriotic, May 7, 2010 at 1:14 pm Link to this comment

G. Ramirez:

You seem to be playing the compare who’s injustices are greater game. Why can
we not address both gay rights and humane immigration reform? They are not
mutually exclusive. We don’t have to just address one or the other. And they
are certainly not in competition with one another. I know because I have been
an advocate for both. And what about gay “illegals” how do they fit into your
scenario?

Most undocumented workers did not break the law upon entering this country.
MOST CAME HEAR LEGALLY ON A WORK VISA AND THEN STAYED. For those tens of
millions crossing the border was not an illegal act. (and I will keep
pounding this drum because it is monumental to this issue) A huge majority
continue to live and work peacefully. THEY ARE NOT THE ENEMY! in fact their
labor is an invaluable resource that pushes and vitalizes our economy every
day. Besides what gave your family more of a right than theirs to dream of a
better life in the US? Do you think that you made it here because you are
more intelligent, harder working, or more savvy to the system than they are?
Or can you accept that your family simply got lucky and theirs didn’t.

American’s pick up a relatively modest bill for services rendered to
undocumented workers, when you consider that while they are here we EXPLOIT
them for cheap labor. Our economy would not be what it is without that labor.
We are taking advantage of them. Not the other way around.
I will say this again as well. The cost and logistical barriers of locating,
arresting and deporting tens of millions of people would hurt us more than
help us. Particularly when those people are very often skilled workers.

A single stroke of the pen in Washington pertaining to how visas are
distributed and enforced would do more for the immigration issue than any
gestapo style mass deportation ever could. The biggest problem here is our
xenophobic behavior and our visa policy and enforcement. The problem is the
guy washing dishes down the street. He contributes more hard work every day
than many citizens. It is the attitude that causes people to treat him as a
subhuman that is the bigger concern to me.

By the way according to the Department of Homeland Security web-site (under
the INS immigration statistics tab) the number of undocumented workers in
this country has remained fairly constant since 2005. In fact the number has
declined by about 1 million since late 2007 in response to the economic
downturn.

Please stop trying to scare people just because it’s a mid-term election
year. There are better ways to be civically active that are far less
dangerous to the very idea of liberty.

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By G. Ramirez, May 6, 2010 at 10:00 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I’m Latino, Democrat, Gay, and I support this Arizona law!

The fact is, illegal aliens have “more” rights than gay people. Illegal aliens can see their opposite sex partners in hospitals, and up until just 3 weeks ago when Obama signed an executive order allowing same-sex couples to see one another in hospitals, same sex couples would have been continually barred from seeing one another. Illegal aliens can marry an American citizen, gay people cannot marry in most states in the US. Illegal aliens can march on Washington and request some type of amnesty from a president who supports selective amnesty, gay people can march on Washington, but Obama doesn’t support same sex marriage.

Illegal aliens broke the law entering our country and are using their “anchor babies” (born here in the US) to anchor onto benefits that taxpayers pay for which include: public housing, free rent, food stamps, and free healthcare (when they go to emergency room, guess who pays? YOU!). Additionally,there’s nothing to stop them from having more kids in order to convince a judge to let them stay in the US. On the other hand, many states don’t allow gay Americans to adopt children.

Illegal aliens should all be deported now. We need to end birthright citizenship, and deny illegals social services. Americans are ultimately left to pick up the bill for the billions in services they receive for free all the while paying nothing into the system and send all their earned money back to Mexico to help our their country, not ours.

Citizens paying taxes into the system, regardless of sexual orientation, should come FIRST before illegal aliens who are leaving struggling Americans footing the bill. Illegal aliens are also blatantly disregarding our citizenship laws, that is, the LEGAL and the RIGHT way to enter our country and are abusing the public assistance system to their advantage. This needs to stop NOW!

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By dissentispatriotic, May 6, 2010 at 1:15 pm Link to this comment

Virginia777:

Excellent point. I would also add that Americans are anti-immigrant
because the “rugged individualism” and “us against them” ideologies
are ingrained deeply into the American experience. We have always
been taught to hate one group of people or another. Separating us
from any real cultural identity, other than that of the capitalist
culture, creates a system which allows us all to contribute to the
exploitation of people in our families countries of origin and all
over the world without protest. It allows us to say things like,
“developing nation” rather than admitting that we are exploiting
people and hording resources.

Natural resources, and therefore monetary wealth, are finite.
That’s why the “developing” nations never graduate to “first world”
status. And it is definitely why we are all taught to hate and
mistrust “foreigners”.

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By dissentispatriotic, May 6, 2010 at 12:47 pm Link to this comment

South Of The Border:

Just in case you come back to this thread I wanted to clarify a little
further the discussion into which you came. My statement “Yes we could go to
Mexico and work and protest, they would even give us medical attention but
there are no jobs to be had there” was inaccurate and I’m glad you pointed it
out.

The sentiment that produced that inaccurate statement is this. The idea that
undocumented Mexican nationals have rights here that we would not have as a
legal immigrant there, is apples and oranges because people don’t flee in
numbers from a privileged country to a disadvantaged one to look for work. We
can cross the border heading south any time just for a visit because they are
not as worried about us “taking their jobs”. I am, however, full of
admiration that you are willing to use your valuable skills there.

In addition I was pointing out that that same economic disparity that has
caused mass migration was largely caused by our own actions. We have a stake
in the Mexican plight whether we like it or not. (I know that I am preaching
to the choir here as you are already involved in the struggle south of the
border, South Of The Border.)

There are other posts from me to you on this thread. Please check them out.

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By Virginia777, May 6, 2010 at 11:20 am Link to this comment

the only reason that most Americans are anti-immigrant, is that right-wing media has been given total freedom to spread extremism - via brain-washing techniques - all across our country. The radio, the t.v., the internet, the works!!

As long as we continue to allow - and I mean Allow - them to do this, we can count on America becoming an extremist country.

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By dissentispatriotic, May 5, 2010 at 7:56 pm Link to this comment

j707:
Thank you for responding. I think a little bit of context is important
sometimes. I am also glad to know that you were not drawing equivalence
between entering Auschwitz and the United States as was my impression
upon first read. Hence, the semi-knee-jerk reaction.

This immigration debate is a brain buster. Not because it is inherently
complex or multi-faceted, but because I couldn’t exactly figure out what
the Arizona bill actually does. So I read a lot more and it never became
any clearer. If it does not encourage racial profiling and immigration
papers only have to be produced when you are already committing a crime,
then how does that a change from the rights that the police already have
to search anyone with “probable cause”? Are they really saying that this
bill gives them the right to search people which they already had the
legal right to search? The other side is saying that this bill is
Orwellian in nature and will allow our government to detain large
numbers of people with no questions asked and to put them in detention
centers with no due process until they can sort out your status. This is
not science fiction ICE was doing it for years under George W. Bush. I
recognize the need for comprehensive immigration reform. I just don’t
want to disregard the civil liberties of millions of Latino American
citizens, or any American citizens for that matter, to do it.

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By J707, May 5, 2010 at 1:40 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

dissentispatriotic:

“Why can’t you?” was directed at the author of this article, and refers to an ability to understand the importance of context when interpreting flowery poetry stamped into particular national monuments.

As to “what Im talking about,” I was referring to the poem on the Statue of Liberty which the author seems to believe invites illegal immigration.  I think I was fairly clear on why this is plainly nonsense, but I’ll try and explain again…

The poem on the Statue of Liberty welcomes people from all walks of life (here comes the all-important context) entering the country through Ellis Island- which was just ahead of it- to become citizens.  The sign above Auschwitz promises freedom for hard work (here comes the context) on the way into a camp where workers were actually shot and cremated.

To think that the poem on the Statue of Liberty actually condones illegal immigration requires about as much literalistic idiocy and ignorance of context as thinking that prisoners at Auschwitz were rewarded with freedom for their hard work because the sign said so.

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By dissentispatriotic, May 5, 2010 at 12:21 pm Link to this comment

South Of The Border:
By the way. Your post was a legitimate critique and not just an
argument of semantics. You caught me TBT (typing before thinking) and
called me out! Nothin’ wrong with that my friend. We should all be as
thoughtful as we can be, because our actions and words can affect
others.

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By dissentispatriotic, May 5, 2010 at 11:54 am Link to this comment

J707:
Why can’t I what, Read the sign above Auschwitz. Well
for one I’m not in Germany. By the way what are you
talking about?

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By dissentispatriotic, May 5, 2010 at 11:49 am Link to this comment

Liberties Libertine:
Hello again. I am glad you were pumped a little by the last post. I have
to admit sometimes I just like to push buttons to see what happens. It
is interesting to get a legal immigrants perspective. Wait, you are
legal right? Can I see some ID? I’m just kidding. I always found it
fascinating that many naturalized citizens have a greater appreciation
for American democracy than many of the people born here. Always glad to
see people who care about the world willing to engage in healthy debate.

I hope you have read some of my other posts. I’ve tried to touch on a
little bit of every part of this issue, as I understand it anyway. Hope
you don’t mind if I just comment a little on your last post.

Race in America. That is a complex issue to say the least. But here are
some reasons why it is more than relevant today, particularly as it
pertains to the immigration issue. A simple conversation about genealogy. Ask the average African-American when did their family
immigrate here and from where? Do you know why that could be offensive?
Simply put slavery, although “abolished” here in the later half of the
19th century has left behind many legacies. One of which is a loss of
genealogy. If you don’t know where your family originated, there is also
a loss of identity both personally and culturally. In addition there are
African-Americans now in their 60s and 70s who remember when their
families couldn’t vote and had to be totally segregated from society.
Even 100 years after the abolition of slavery there was a lingering
legacy of racism. Saying to someone who has memories of segregation that
race is merely one layer of an onion could be perceived very poorly.

I have attended many workshops and classes of race reconciliation,
cultural racism as well as race and privilege. I am no nay sayer and
believe in the effort of racial reconciliation, but I also understand
that some of these legacies never will be and should not be forgotten
out of respect for and in memorandum of the the people who struggled for
equality. But also in order to remember the past in order to avoid
future atrocities.

Also please do not assume that because I criticize this country that I
take my civil liberties for granted. Indeed the First Amendment was hard
won and gave me the right to criticize. I wouldn’t be able to express
most of these opinions in most of the rest of the world. I take my user
name from a Thomas Jefferson quote in which he said that dissent is the
ultimate form of patriotism. Being an anti-national and being suspicious
of all nationalism are two different things. And indeed the source of
our responsibility to speak out against injustice is derived from our
great privilege.

The next comment is about what I said regarding this being a multi-
cultural nation from the beginning. When Europeans first landed here
there were untold millions of Native Americans with nations, tribes,
clans and thousands of years of culture. Although the ensuing genocide
killed untold numbers some of the cultural beliefs, rituals and
languages persist to this day. In addition African slaves were brought
to this continent very early from the European perspective and in fact
by the early 19th century there were millions of African descended
people in the southern US alone. The wealthy plantation owners were
greatly outnumbered and lived in fear of a revolt. This community too
had it’s own cultural beliefs and customs. Irish, Chinese, free African
descendants. Right from the beginning there were literally hundreds of
distinct cultural experiences. Of course, the culture of the oppressors
became dominant and ultimately demanded assimilation and therefore was
the one whose stories are largely told. But there is no doubt that many
cultures have affected the outcome of our current cultural expressions.

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By J707, May 5, 2010 at 10:17 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Lets see.  That was the slogan that millions of transatlantic immigrants saw (along with the Statue of Liberty) IMMEDIATELY BEFORE they were processed at Ellis Island a stone’s throw away and handed their paperwork…but we are to believe that this slogan was an invitation to sneak into the country illegally?

So…by this logic, “ARBEIT MACHT FREI” means that Auschwitz was simply a happy place where people worked hard and were free?

CONTEXT is really sort of important when interpreting flowery poetry stamped into a country’s monuments.  The millions of LEGAL immigrants who read those words before being taken to Ellis Island understood this concept…and in a much more tragic sense, so did millions of europeans who werent any less terrified after they read the sign above Auschwitz.  Why cant you?

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By dissentispatriotic, May 5, 2010 at 9:22 am Link to this comment

South of the Border:
Thank you very much for your comment and your work as a nurse. I think
that there are few professions so noble.

I think that you are referring to my response to overmycoffecup. The post
was a list of ways in which “illegal immigrants” cost us all by bringing
crime and stealing jobs. I quote “you have people coming here, giving
nothing back, robbing, murdering, breaking the laws, killing our police”.
While these concerns may or may not be validated, the implication was
that all “illegals” share these traits. This particular post also
protested public funds being used for ESL (English as a Second Language)
which many legitimate students obviously use. Just ridiculous, millions
of American citizens have learned English as a second language. You can
judge for yourself, but honestly I found it to be offensive, xenophobic
and a complete misrepresentation of this issue. I realize that I did not
make my point well. I misspoke and appreciate you making an effort to
clarify.

The bottom line here is that negative stereotyping of all immigrants is
rampant, diversionary and not relevant to the larger immigration debate.
An overwhelming majority of the tens of millions of undocumented workers
in the US are peaceful and hard working. They are not the enemy! In fact
the violent drug wars in Mexico are caused by our drugs. We are the
buyers of virtually every gram of narcotics that has ever passed through
Mexico. But somehow in the immigration debate they are bringing their
drugs into our country. The theme is recurring. We don’t look hard at our
own drug laws. Instead we say if only they would stop bringing it in. We
aren’t actually addressing immigration comprehensively as a nation now.
Because deep down we know that America will never turn down an
exploitable resource. We just need someone to hate in an election year.   

I also wanted to address your point about undocumented Mexican immigrants
demanding rights here that a legal immigrant would not have in Mexico. In
many cases people do not sneak hushed across a border. Often people stay
here illegally after their work visa has expired. Whole families that
have built a life here. They know that deportation means economic
uncertainty, fear of a partially naturalized family being split up, and
concerns for the well-being and safety of their families. This is at the
heart of the immigration issue. People protest because their families
best chance for a secure future rests on outdated and often unfair
immigration policy that brought them here and now want’s them out. I have
heard people in this debate equivocate being here illegally with robbing
a bank. I mean in both cases the law is broken. There is a difference!
One is a desperate act of violence. The other is a desperate act of love
for one’s family and their well being. The other difference is that the
laws prohibiting bank robbery are just and well defined while our
immigration laws are not.   

Is the goal here to actually find a viable resolution at all? Do we have
ICE round everyone up into detainment camps for deportation? Is it cost
effective or good for the economy to find, arrest and deport ten’s of
millions of skilled workers? If the Arizona law does not use profiling
and allows police the right to stop someone for immigration papers only
if they are committing a crime, then what exactly changed? Couldn’t they
already do that? Do Americas powerful special interests really want to
loose a massive cheap work force? Democrats are not eager to approach
another heated issue, Republicans are forcing the debate and it’s a mid-
term election year. So I’m not holding my breath for anything meaningful.
I’m sorry to bear bad news, but it’s just election fodder. That’s the
real shame here.

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By South of The Boarder, May 4, 2010 at 10:33 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Dissentispatriotic, this may seem like only semantics to you but as you make
many very good points I do feel the need to clarify a few things. I’m an
American as well as a nurse who has been living in Mexico for about 3 years.
I’ve worked in the U.S. as a nurse from Miami to Tampa to New York City. First,
the U.S. absolutely does provide health care to immigrants. Legal or illegal. I’ve
personally cared for illegal Mexican immigrants including one who received a
heart transplant. We cared for these individuals without judgment or concern of
immigration status. I also feel it is important to point out that
OverMYCoffeeCup was very correct is stating that immigrants like myself living
in Mexico are not allowed to partake in protests of any kind, especially those
against anything Mexican, without risking deportation regardless of the
situation. In addition, I as an immigrant in Mexico am expected to carry my
immigration paperwork with me at all times. I’ve been stopped in the airport
by airport police to ensure I had my documentation with me. If you go to any
Mexican hospital, private or public, direct admission or through the Emergency
room, the first thing they ask you for is a credit card. And yes, we foreigners in
Mexico get pulled over by the police because we look like foreigners. In their
intent “to find something wrong” they usually want a bribe. As much as certain
Mexicans may be poor due to “if we had ?not intervened and stopped the
nationalization of their ?industries, in the name of fighting
communism/socialism, they ?would be better off financially”, a very large
amount of Mexicans are poor because that’s exactly how Mexico wants them to
be. The majority of Mexico’s people may be poor but Mexico is NOT a poor
country. The richest man in the world is from Mexico, how do you explain that?
The lower socioeconomic Mexican who doesn’t immigrate to the U.S. live in
Mexico doing the same type of work for probably more hours a week (as the
average Mexican work week is Monday through Saturday 12 hours a day
minimum) for a fraction of the pay, no benefits, more racism because the truth
is, as seen by any foreigner in Mexico, the higher socioeconomic Mexicans hate
lower socioeconomic Mexicans more than anyone else.  They receive no
respect, they have no voice. Yet when going over to the U.S. illegally they
demand rights that not even a legal immigrant in Mexico has. They demand
respect and a voice from the U.S. as illegal immigrants but as legal Mexican
citizens they don’t fight! I’m not saying in anyway that this Mexican behavior is
correct but I do find it amazing that these same Mexicans don’t fight for these
rights in their own country but have no problem doing so as an illegal in
another.

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By Liberty's Libertine, May 4, 2010 at 8:42 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

D.D. just because this multifaceted onion has race
as a layer in it, does not make someone with an
opposing viewpoint from yours rascist. You talk about
this country being a multi racial country from the
get go, now this is semantics. You know damn well
Europeans (anglo-saxon, indo-aryan) are genetically
almost the same thing, with very similar values, and
upon arriving to America a very similar language.
Through out history upon arriving in America these
people assimilated and made America the country today
that in your deluded world you take for granted. (I
am British and I thank God every day to now be an
American.) It is a shame that the powers that be
(tptb) have exploited people South of the border as
badly as they have. (Their doing here, there, and
every where else) This still does not give them a
right to ILLEGALLY slip into this country and then
defy the people who live here; 1) by refusing to
learn English. 2)Abuse the very few perks Americans
have 3) By doubling the crime in every city they
reside in. Now this is not to say all of them are
bad, and it is truly sad it has come to this. Let me
say that again, “This is TRAGIC for everyone
involved.” We both know the danger that these poor
people face, the hell they go through just to get
here. Shows us how terrible it must be where they are
from. You need to realize something though, alright
please consider this. TPTB want to totally eradicate
national sovereignty around the world. (They have
done England GONE) Is this easier to achieve when a)
you have a UNIFIED country steeped in cultural
tradition, who speak the same language, who are at
the least patriotic and can understand each other?
Who relate and trust one another? OR 2) A country
divided into factions. Who can not understand or
relate to each other. Fearful and untrusting due to
the tremendous increases in crime and drugs
destroying any semblance of a progressive western
democracy all together.3)Total intellectual
stagnation in the schools. Seriously you seem like a
half way intelligent person, calling people who feel
this way “racist” is a cop out because these are
unfortunately very valid concerns. Turn the Black
Eyed Pea’s off put down your latest bio of Karl Marx
and take a stroll outside into one of these once
prosperous neighborhoods. Or you can always go and
visit London.

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By dissentispatriotic, May 4, 2010 at 7:06 pm Link to this comment

Another big up to skulz fontaine. Very concise and articulate
observations. Glad to hear a voice of reason in this great big bowl of
crazy soup.


Just in case, I would like to clarify that my last post was pure
sarcasm and should not be used for educational purposes. It should also
not be used as a far right-wing mantra or battle cry!

Thank you in advance!

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By dissentispatriotic, May 4, 2010 at 6:57 pm Link to this comment

Hey everybody. I’m here in America now. My family and I are doing great. I just
bought the new Hummer and some $200 sneakers. The food is really good and there’s
lots of it. In fact I’m starting to push maximum density. I am sorry to inform you we
are now closing the doors. No one else gets in. Unless you can jump through a big
flaming hoop with some pink poodles and the poodles don’t get here first. All of the
opportunities we have to offer here are now totally exclusive. I hope your kids don’t
have to work in the textile factory, but if they do screw ‘em. I already got mine.
It’s now officially YP, your problem. Hope you don’t mind $.50 a day to make my $200
sneakers. It’s all our companies can pay you as there is a recession and we are in
dire straights. I’m doing my part though, only one latte per day and five movie
rentals a week. Your welcome. 

P.S. We are the most awesome nation in all of history and deserve all of this success
while you are stinky and poor. So we may break you off a few scraps so that we can
still feel good about ourselves, but show some class and don’t come asking.

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By dissentispatriotic, May 4, 2010 at 6:04 pm Link to this comment

No, but really, the word Arizona is most likely derived
from the Aztec Indian word “arizuma” meaning “silver-
bearing”. Although, it may also be derived from the
Tohono O’odham Indian word “aleh-zone” meaning “small
spring”. In any event it is unfortunate and ironic that
the descendants of the Aztecs living in Mexico are now
barred from entering a state which is derives it’s name
from their own culture.

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By dissentispatriotic, May 4, 2010 at 5:52 pm Link to this comment

That’s crazy that your Phoenix Suns are wearing jerseys that
say “Los Suns”. Especially in a state with all American city
names like Mesa, Casa Grande, Ajo, Sierra Vista, etc…

In fact I think Arizona is Spanish for intolerant and ignorant.

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By dissentispatriotic, May 4, 2010 at 5:42 pm Link to this comment

Big ups to Red Horse for the hilarious post. Scroll on
down and check it out. It’s worth it!

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By Barb AZ, May 4, 2010 at 5:37 pm Link to this comment

Our Phoenix Suns are now proudly displaying a shirt that reads, “Los Suns.”

The world has gone MAD.

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/immigration/los-suns-jerseys-5-4-2010

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By dissentispatriotic, May 4, 2010 at 5:33 pm Link to this comment

Although I do believe that racism is at the heart of the immigration issue, we
have digressed to a discussion for another blog. The issue is that 50 million
people that are already here and working are being made the villains. I also do
not want this debate to become about undocumented Mexican nationals only, as
people from around the globe reside and work here without documentation.
Although if you live in a border state I can see why you might have thoughts to
the contrary. They are all simply doing what any good parent would do and
looking for a better life for their children. There is an inherent value to
having them here and many pay taxes and social security, dubious though some of
those Social Security numbers may be. Again, most undocumented workers did not
cross the border illegally. Many stayed after a work visa expired AND STILL
WORK AND PAY THEIR TAXES. We simply should not deport millions of people who
are productive members of our society. The burden is on us to correct our own
immigration law instead of being hateful and blaming people for wanting a
better life.

One of the proposals has been amnesty for everyone who already is here. Indeed
this may be the only way to actually even identify all of the undocumented
workers. They will certainly never come forward for voluntary deportation and
it would take more resources than even the U.S. could deliver to find, arrest,
and deport 50 million people. For those of you worried about the affects of
this kind of amnesty on our jobs and economy I would say this. If these
millions of people were to stay and do the work they are already doing above
board at an American wage, there would a be more healthy and competitive
playing field. There would clearly be a larger tax base and employers could no
longer offer them a lower wage than they would to you because minimum wage laws
would then apply to all of us. What is for certain is that spending billions to
find, arrest and deport 50 million workers, many of them skilled laborers,
would have a negative affect on our economy no matter how you slice it.

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By Rafa, May 4, 2010 at 3:46 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Obviously this coffe guy doesn’t give a shit about the legal inmigrants that live in this country.
Obviously he doesn’t care if my family goes to a mall in Arizona or a baseball game and started to be bother us with questions because we are latinos and cause we are latinos there is a chance we are illegal right?
He said that California pay a lot of money for crimes involving mexicans, what a freaking prejudice guy. So that’s mean white or other races don’t committed crime ever.
Complaining about money paid to translators for our education? Common if we are legal we have the right to get a little help if we need too. So inmigrants can no come to this country to study?
Inmigrants stealing jobs, so is there fault that people don’t go to college and even that, they only want jobs that make $15/ HOUR or more. Because of that they don’t like to work in gardens or construction. So who is going to work them.
A lot of inmigrants in this country are making great contributions to this country so I don’t know where the generalization is coming from.
I know we need laws to control illegal inmigrations but affecting inmigrants overall is not the right approach cause this is going to have bad consecuences at the end.
So why coffeguy you don’t make a concentration camp to put inmigrants or when you going to make a Nazi club where you can talk about your white american power?
I don’t have nothing against white cause am kind of white too but I don’t support any kind of racism or prejudice in this country. The sad thing about this law is that there is going to be a lot of cops that thinks like coffeguy and are going to be creating problems in Arizona instead of find the solution.

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By dissentispatriotic, May 4, 2010 at 2:30 pm Link to this comment

Actually there were other arguments and some good ones, but the “race
card keeps coming up” because slavery left behind a legacy that is
still alive and well today. Also because institutionalized racism in
America in general still exists and to bury our heads in the sand and
deny it is an affront to democracy and justice and all the things we
hold dear.

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By dissentispatriotic, May 4, 2010 at 2:24 pm Link to this comment

I appreciate your comments about Mexican Constitutional law and I am
certainly not encouraging Americans buy up Mexican property or to
participate in protests of the Mexican government on their own soil. To
clarify, the point was that the idea that Mexicans have rights here that
we would not have there is apples and oranges because people don’t flee
from an advantaged county to a disadvantaged one to look for work. I
would bet that Mexico would naturalize an American professional much more
readily that we would a Mexican professional. Moreover, the deplorable
economic and political situation in which many Mexicans live has been exasperated by our own trade agreements so we have a stake in their
plight and cannot dismiss it as “their problem”. Why are we arguing
semantics and not asking the more important questions like why is the
neighbor of the wealthiest nation on earth so poor that it’s people risk
their lives in the desert to cross the border?

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By OverMyCoffeeCup, May 4, 2010 at 2:19 pm Link to this comment

How many of your descendants were slaves? One of my ancestors was sent to America as a slave. Give me a *&%#@ break. WHY does the RACE card always show up when there are no other arguments.

Impact of Immigration Policy on Black Americans
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI8xDMMNWLE

T. Wilard Fair, the President & CEO of the Urban League of Greater Miami discusses the affect illegal immigration has on the American job market.

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By dissentispatriotic, May 4, 2010 at 1:57 pm Link to this comment

I wonder if the descendants of slaves think of it as a
“red herring”.

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By dissentispatriotic, May 4, 2010 at 1:54 pm Link to this comment

Well, Libertiny, I guess we are doomed then because our country was actually
defined by an onslaught of immigration. We are truly a melting pot, so there is
no master race to keep pure. In fact this has been a multi-cultural nation from
the beginning there is no one day, maybe or if about it. I am happy to see more
of the old us and them neo-conservative rhetoric though. It is like an old
friend. You even threw in a “third-worlders” which is classic. The reason people
in the third world resent us is because of our opulence. We exploit them in
order enjoy trivial things. Do you think that the diamond digger in Sierra Leon
or the child textile worker in Honduras are thinking about how great it is that
we are indulging ourselves? Or do you just think that we’re just better than
them somehow and it doesn’t matter what they think? We do not deserve and did
not create the wealth that we have. It was all stolen or made on the backs of
others and the empire will fall unless we acknowledge that and move toward
change. So you’ve got it backwards it is we who are profiting off of their
demise not the other way around.

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By OverMyCoffeeCup, May 4, 2010 at 1:45 pm Link to this comment

http://www.travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_970.html

Demonstrations:  The Mexican Constitution prohibits political activities by foreigners; such actions may result in detention and/or deportation.  Travelers should avoid political demonstrations and other activities that might be deemed political by the Mexican authorities.  Even demonstrations intended to be peaceful can turn confrontational and escalate into violence.  U.S. citizens are urged to avoid areas of demonstrations, and to exercise caution if in the vicinity of any protests.
———————-
The Mexican Constitution prohibits direct ownership by foreigners of real estate within 100 kilometers (about 62 miles) of any border, and within 50 kilometers (about 31 miles) of any coastline.  In order to permit foreign investment in these areas, the Mexican government has created a trust mechanism in which a bank has title to the property but a trust beneficiary enjoys the benefits of ownership.  However, U.S. citizens are vulnerable to title challenges that may result in years of litigation and possible eviction.
———————
Additionally, U.S. citizens should be aware that many Mexican facilities require payment ‘up front’ prior to performing a procedure.

The Social Security Medicare Program does not provide coverage for hospital or medical costs outside the United States.  Please see additional information on medical insurance abroad.

——————-

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By OverMyCoffeeCup, May 4, 2010 at 1:32 pm Link to this comment

The Slavery Issue is a red herring. The South was already phasing out slavery and had already begun freeing slaves. It took the North another 10 - 15 years AFTER the end of Civil War before they finally did away with THEIR slaves.

http://overmycoffeecup.blogspot.com/2009/09/warning-lincoln-and-obama-history-is.html

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By Barb AZ, May 4, 2010 at 1:28 pm Link to this comment

If you support this legislation, please visit The Governor’s site here:

http://janbrewer.com/

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By dissentispatriotic, May 4, 2010 at 1:22 pm Link to this comment

More terrible irony. OverMyCoffeCup, from where do you think that coffee
came and why is it so cheap that you can afford to drink it at your leisure? It is cheap because somewhere in South or Central America
someone is being exploited. Maybe they just want the chance to come here
and sit enjoy a cup rather than slaving away in the fields all day for
our pleasure.

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By dissentispatriotic, May 4, 2010 at 12:58 pm Link to this comment

Yes we could go to Mexico and work and protest, they would even
give us medical attention but there are no jobs to be had there.
If Mexicans are that anti-American and pro-nationalistic why
would they leave? It is because Free Trade Agreements have taken
their industries away from them and put them in the hands of
American and other foreign multi-national corporations and they
do not receive the benefits of their own resources. If we had
not intervened and stopped the nationalization of their
industries, in the name of fighting communism/socialism, they
would be better off financially, more self determined and less
desperate. It is very ironic that we are a “Christian” nation
and are not more open and willing to sharing our vast resources
with our impoverished neighbors. The added irony is that we want
to deny people, who are contributing to our society with massive
amounts of labor, access to things like health care. After all,
Jesus was a healer. Do you think he had a policy about only
healing Judeans?

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By Liberty's Libertine, May 4, 2010 at 12:48 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

When are you people going to wake up!!! Never in the
history of our world has a country (or empire) ever
survived an onslaught of immigration that changed the
demographics of the country. When countries are
founded they have a shared vision and culture that
allows for growth and expansion and more importantly
UNITY! A nation of divided peoples, tribes and
languages that cannot relate or even understand each
other cannot stand. A nation founded by a people
because of their self-determination, intellect, and
faith cannot prosper when the founding peoples
principles become perverted and they become
intellectually stifled and stagnant by the influence
of third worlders. I suggest you naive white liberals
out there get a clue and start thinking realistically
for yourselves about the world in which we live. When
(if) this country finally becomes a multicultural
nation offsetting its founding people. You wait and
see what will become of white morons like yourselves
when you are no longer represented politically. You
idiots have no clue the hatred and envy third
worlders feel towards you. Why don’t you read about
South Africa and Rwanda. Wake up!!! Quit letting
other people do your thinking for you. Especially
when those are the very people profiting from your
demise.

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By dissentispatriotic, May 4, 2010 at 12:35 pm Link to this comment

let’s add abolition of slavery to the list of just and
honorable things that never would have happened if left
up to the popular vote.

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By OverMyCoffeeCup, May 4, 2010 at 12:33 pm Link to this comment

1. Illegal Aliens vs Legal Immigrants. Call them what they are. Illegal invaders.

2. Perhaps 100yrs ago they did the jobs Americans wouldn’t do, but today, they take the jobs in crafts, trades and service industries that Americans use to have to take care of their families. They are stealing the jobs, doing them for a wage a Citizen wouldn’t do the job for. Road crew, painters, landscape & lawn care, cement workers, bricklayers, fast food service (our teens use to use as their first job or during summers breaks in high school).

3. Their presence here is using the Educational dollars for American students by spending it on interpretors for class rooms (ESL - English as a Second Language)instead of books and updated schools.

4. Health Care dollars are used in the hospitals and clinics.

5. The cost of incarcerating illegal Mexican murderers, rapist, drug runners, etc. has cause California to spend $970 million just in 2009. It is the same across the nation.

If you want to be my friend, you don’t start out by breaking into my home. If you want to come here to be an American, you don’t do this by breaking into the country.

Here is the rub…they don’t want to become Americans, LIKE OUR IMMIGRANT ANCESTORS DID. our ancestors came here to become American, learn and assimilate in America, to contribute to America. They came with nothing and worked hard. Sure there were some criminals, it is the same every where but today, you have people coming here, giving nothing back, robbing, murdering, breaking the laws, killing our police, protesting our laws, demanding rights they have not received by virtue of being an American.

If an American (or any other nationality) went to Mexico, you could not fly your countries flag, could not involve yourself in protest, could not hold a job unless you had a work permit, you could not do any of the things Mexicans do when they come here ILLEGALLY.

Arizona has the right to protect its Citizens. If the Feds refuse to deal with the issue, each state has a Right, a Duty to protect its self.

I support Arizona!

http://overmycoffeecup.blogspot.com/2010/04/arizona-is-line-in-sand.html

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By dissentispatriotic, May 4, 2010 at 12:14 pm Link to this comment

I was shocked to read all the statistics in one of
the previous posts. They claim that 95% of all murder
warrants in Los Angeles are for “illegal aliens”.
That is a lot of scape-goating! I do however agree
with an earlier post stating that 51% of all
Americans are clueless. Lets talk about the just and
honorable things that never would have happened in
this country if it had been left up to the popular
vote.
1. Independence
2. Voting Rights for Women
3. Civil Rights
4. Desegregation

The fact is that even if we could identify and deport
every undocumented worker in the US, the economy
would collapse. We are so opulently racist that we
can’t even appreciate that these 50 million people
are doing our dirty work every day. I mean if you saw
a white person with a German accent buying groceries
you wouldn’t even think twice about their immigration
status. Lastly, most undocumented people in this
country did not cross a border illegally. According
to the INS, most simply stayed after a visa expired.
So building walls and putting the military at the
border addresses a minuscule part of this issue.

If you live in the United States overwhelming chances
are you are in the top 5% of income earners in the
world. We are wealthy enough to eat appetizers; you
know the food that makes us hungry for more food. We
have this wealth because our stolen lands are
bountiful and our economy, in it’s infancy, was made
one of the strongest in the world by cotton, tobacco
and slavery. So just enjoy the plunder. Stay
comfortable and well entertained and stop projecting
your insecurities onto people who are trying to do
the same thing for their families that your immigrant
fore-bearers did for yours.

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By gallego71, May 4, 2010 at 10:27 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Here we go again! Looking for a scape goat to point blame at when in reality it is all our fault! Regardless America was built by immigrants whether legal or illegal. Did we forget that our ancestors came here from another foreign country to then point at others trying to find prosperity as well is being an outright hippocrite! Why not look at the corporations shipping huge amounts of jobs because its cheaper to get 10 guys to work for the same amount you make. So instead of just wasting your time listening to what these politicians, news anchors, whatever find out for your self! The internet is not just for shopping or celebrity gossip! So use it right!

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By Carl, May 4, 2010 at 10:24 am Link to this comment

The Statue of Liberty was a gift from France to celebrate the end of slavery; it has chains around its ankles. Yet most corporate spinmasters say it means we must accept all the desperate poor refugees that want to flee here. They don’t come here to farm dirt in the wilderness, but want to use our first class infrastructure. In other countries, their democracy matters and they don’t allow this massive influx. If you want to help, become a missionary, but I don’t want the USA to become Brazil with the superrich and the workers living in slums.

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By skulz fontaine, May 4, 2010 at 8:29 am Link to this comment

“Oh no” said the one-legged soul just back from the war. “It’s ‘apostrophe
apostasy’ and how should we live with that?”
“Well” cried the two-legged grammarian who just so happened to have studied
the “english” as a second and possibly proper language, at a “prestigious and
‘upper crusted’ boarding school somewhere in the East.”
“We’ll just have to see how the Amerikanese is bent and then spent on the
pages of ‘irreverence’.”
“Fine and dandy with me you see” mourned a recently demised coalmining
daughter that just so happened to have flunked out the schooling process. “On
account of see, some state’s board of edumacation has been bankrupted and
set most miserably on a ‘back-burner’ if/and/or/until there’s ‘money’ to be
found.” Somewhere up in the black “mining” hills of ‘Dakota’!
It’s (al-Qaeda) “about the business of long wars of linguistic terror” so as to
‘strike’ fear into the hearts of suburban polling participants.
Beware of functional illiteracy that eats at the heart of the “Amerika” we all
know and love so patriotically well. Well? Well!

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By kiwi101, May 4, 2010 at 8:26 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Wow, a lot of bitter things said. They all have one thing in common.
They are opinions.

The one that started it out and everyone thinks is great is the statement on the
Statue of Liberty.
Give us your tired and your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free
...

That phrase was put there by an artist.
It is not a law. It is not our constitution. It is not a mandate.
It is just a very good idea at a time that needed hope.
It is a warm fuzzy to those who came to America for the hope of freedom.

It is not something to beat up other Americans who may think differently.

There are a lot of phrases out there that people use to make their point.
Don’t let it consume you and don’t quote it as if it is the law of the land. It is
not.

———————

As for illegal immigrants do the jobs we don’t want to, and that illegal
immigrants don’t collect unemployment.

I still believe words have meaning.
They are called illegal for a reason.
Just do it the legal way. Then no one can complain.

Those who say all Chinese or all Thai people should go home, are frustrated.
They see illegals and group everyone into one category.
Legal is the way to go.

Another way to look at this may be that we might not have our own, here at
home, collecting unemployment, if there were jobs.
Who knows, maybe given the chance, some may work those jobs you think we
don’t want to.
If the jobs were there, we may not have as much unemployment.
But if illegals are filling those jobs, then we will never know.
Don’t make the assumption that illegals are doing jobs we don’t want to.
Someone here was doing it before the illegals filled them.
The only reason illegals got a foothold is because they were cheap.
Not because they do a job we won’t.

Remember, the shoe may someday be on the other foot, when you lose your
job to an illegal. When it hits closer to home you may not be quite so
sympathetic.

I had a great career in the building industry. That market has been decimated
by illegals. And now by the economy.
That is not an industry with jobs that no one wants. It was about cheap labor.
When you base everything on cheap, you get what you pay for.
Remember that the next time you have to fix or replace something that should
have lasted longer. (including your home)

If you remember nothing else, remember the main point here.
Illegal is illegal no matter how you try to justify it or gloss it over.
(Undocumented is just another term for illegal. It doesn’t make it right)

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By thebeerdoctor, May 4, 2010 at 8:24 am Link to this comment

This has been a mean country for a very long time. In fact, from the very beginning.

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By REDHORSE, May 4, 2010 at 8:23 am Link to this comment

” Oh—-cluck-cluck-cluck—-the sky is falling—-the sky is falling—-cluck—cluck—cluck—-”. Meanwhile, back in Washington….

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By Southern Gal, May 4, 2010 at 8:10 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

We have laws regarding illegal immigration, but those laws are violated every day. I think that many people in this country did not realize just how many illegal immigrants were in this country until they began to see the hundreds of thousands attending demonstrations in our cities.

In these times of a poor real economy (not the stock market) and not enough jobs being created, people begin to understand that there are people here who are not citizens who are competing for available jobs and resources. This becomes a personal issue, when families are faced with loss of jobs, hunger, foreclosures and headed toward homelessness.

It is also difficult to get real facts, when we are inundated with biased information from every side and viewpoint on this issue. People understand that illegal immigrants come to this country to get jobs and provide better lives for their families. We also understand that trade policies with Mexico and other countries have made life harder for their workers. Our government has turned a blind eye for so long regarding the workers in this country and based policies and resources on rewarding corporations that want cheap labor and don’t want to pay a living wage.

There seems to be no way out of this mess until workers begin to get a voice and have their concerns for a living wage and humane working conditions satisfied. In the mean time we have citzen workers in this country and illegal immigrant workers from other countries fighting each other for jobs while the corporations make out like bandits. It becomes so easy to focus your anger on other people, when the government continues to ignore their people and give away billions to corporations, while doing little to provide resources for jobs. We need to unite and focus our anger and advocacy on our government.

We have seen fewer illegal immigrants in our communities in this state since so many jobs dried up and as service agencies have had their budgets cut due to the state’s huge deficits. After all the bottom line for illegal immigrant workers and for citizen workers is for jobs and for resources to care for their families.

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By Theresa Peters, May 4, 2010 at 7:45 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“Polls show that most Americans support Arizona’s new immigration law, which makes it criminal to accept the Statue of Liberty’s invitation.”

The “invitation” was always to the legal immigrants who entered the country through Ellis Island.  At no time did the “invitation” apply to anyone from anywhere who felt like walking in. Your reference is intentionally misleading.

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By Greg, May 4, 2010 at 7:41 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I’m against illegal immigration. period. I’m sick and tired of the Federal
Government looking the other way and not enforcing immigration laws, while
American businesses hire illegals to use as near-slave labor with zero workplace
rights. Stop the duplicity! They are here illegally, so send them back and penalize
businesses for hiring illegals. There are LOTS of American citizens who are
unemployed.

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By Tobysgirl, May 4, 2010 at 7:34 am Link to this comment

What I am amused by are the immigrants and first- and second-generation Americans who are gung-ho that no one else get in! My Thai sister-in-law thinks the Chinese people who run the store she shops at should “go home.” A man whose in-laws are obvious immigrants has become enthused about secure borders. I really enjoyed Letterman’s comment about Native Americans’ perception of the rest of us: “300 million illegal immigrants.”

By the way, I’m quite sure San Francisco has many illegal immigrants. Who else buses the dishes and cleans the offices? Ditto for Arizona. How dumb do people have to be to not realize these are the people doing a lot of our dirty jobs? And, no, undocumented workers aren’t busy collecting government benefits. It is incredible that anyone believes this; they obviously have no experience of the difficulty that citizens face in collecting benefits.

One more thing: Can people learn to write clearly and show some respect for the language? Learning where to use apostrophes is not rocket science.

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By skulz fontaine, May 4, 2010 at 7:34 am Link to this comment

“A new CBS News-New York Times poll found that 51 percent of those
surveyed agreed…”. Those “surveyed” agreed to whatever perspective was
slanted in the polling. 51% means nothing. The “polling” is bullshit. Dick those
funky numbers white boy and twist that meaning til the cows come home.
So, 51% of “Americans” find that Mexicans are ‘illegal beaners’ and are
undeserving of basic human decency? Polling numbers would suggest…
The immigration system is broken and corrupt. “Secure borders” isn’t even an
argument can be made. Hitler championed “secure borders” and we all know
how that turned out.
So after America is done with the ‘beaners’ then who’s next? What marginalized
grouping or ethnicity is up for vilification? Muslims might be a possible.
Pakistani? Syrians? Irish? Polynesian? Red-haired strangers? Bapitist high
school girls that spit on other high school students? Nose-picking Tennessee
flood water victims that need a bailout? Those nose-picking Tennessee flood
water victims are a suspicious bunch for sure. Who’s next?
Pills Limbaugh would be ‘suspicious’ if only for being a fat-assed lying
demagogue. Bill O’Really gots them throbbing blood vessels that pop up on his
nose while he’s screaming derangedly and that’s pretty dang suspicious.
Arianna Huff ‘n’ Puff employs an entire “regiment” of ‘illegal beaners’ to primp
pamper and buff-her-bod and nobody says squat about that. Suspicious?
51% of ALL Americans are clueless as the day is long. So that speaks volumes
about what?

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By omygodnotagain, May 4, 2010 at 6:38 am Link to this comment

The very first responsibility of government is to protect its people. Having secure borders one can defend is a requirement. I have no objection to temporary work visas, but everytime that is brought up racial profiling and civil liberties are invoked.
So please tell us how we can secure our borders and control who comes into the country. What if a few hundred Al Qaida or Taliban decide to pay us a visit.
I sometimes think thats what the Government wants to they have a reason to go to war

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By cwbystache, May 4, 2010 at 6:19 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

... and probably always would have.  This has been a nation of hypocrites from its beginning but hey, hypocrisy is a most useful tool by which great wealth is built.

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By diman, May 4, 2010 at 5:26 am Link to this comment

I didn’t expect it to be otherwise.

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By Der_Zed, May 4, 2010 at 2:18 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I’m just not clear on how this is an “Immigration Law” if someone crosses the border in clear violation of US law how are they an immigrant? Are they not a felon?

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By Rpse, May 4, 2010 at 1:58 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

We live in a world where Sarah Palin is taken seriously as a Presidential candidate, and where Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck are listened to and believed.

We live in a world in which corporations can make bilions of dollars in a city where the poor and homeless squat outside their buildings.

And people don’t care because the middle class is reduced to survive-mode, not morality mode.

How did we found a country with wonderful principles?  It’s descendants would be incapable of it.

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By Ignatz, May 4, 2010 at 1:23 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I guess it is ok to sacrifice our principals for comfort or feelings of security, not that this type of sacrifice is new to our country.

Oh well, let’s support white privilege while ignoring the fact that we Americans have lost far more jobs due to corporations moving service jobs to other continents. Wal-Mart (oh-so-American, no?) sells us billions of dollars in cheep imports, things we used to make here…yet, you never hear any xenophobic Americans decrying those practices, just whining about immigrants (legal or otherwise) ‘coming to take our JOBS!’. And then driving their import car burning foreign oil to buy sweatshop created goods because they are cheaper. If anyone is costing us our American jobs, it is American consumers buying mindlessly.

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By P. T., May 4, 2010 at 1:04 am Link to this comment

Anyone know of a country with open immigration?

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By miller, May 4, 2010 at 12:21 am Link to this comment

Forget the talk of ‘selfish, mean xenophobes’,
although I agree with the sentiment.  More basic is
the abandonment of the fourth amendment and habeas
corpus rights. To cede any power such as this to any
government is dangerous. The mindset behind this law
is no different than the mindsets of the Stalinists
or German fascists or the current Burmese government.
In my perfect world legislators would be required to
a real world ‘veil of ignorance’ experience before
they could vote on any legislation. If that were the
case this new Arizona law would not have become law.

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By canyon critter, May 3, 2010 at 10:59 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

the statue of liberty was there to greet immigrants as they came to ellis island. illegal immigrants are not what made this country great. what part of illegal dont you people understand. i have sponsered an immigrant and let me tell you there is a lot of b.s. that you have to go through. immigration has been good for this country but illegal immigration is bad. i lived on the border for 16 yrs and the crime is bad. i used to camp on the border you couldnt do that now. how you like people walking through your property? you cant leave your house unattended. this is all around bad for america that $45 billion a year they send home is money taken out of our economy. it used to be people came here an assimilated not today. they want to work here and thats it. there not interested in citizenship. how often do you see spanish people when your watching tv? not very often, they have there own radio and tv stations all gov’t services are in spanish they dont need to learn english. they are being catered to. we are being balkanized as we type. we are already a two culture society. do you know what la raza means? have you ever heard of mecha? wake up america these illegal alien lawbreakers will ruin a good thing

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By Commune115, May 3, 2010 at 10:52 pm Link to this comment

Instead of just slamming people as racist or crazy etc., how’s about the government actually do something about unemployment and the terrible fate befalling most of the working class? The best way to fight growing racist attitudes and paranoia would be to actually take care of our society instead of worshipping the idol of capitalism which is creating the conditions and divisions making Arizona’s policies popular.

Of course Limousine Liberals just like to gasp, wag their fingers and then go hang out at Starbucks.

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By P. T., May 3, 2010 at 10:20 pm Link to this comment

If cities denouncing Arizona, such as San Francisco, would offer to take in Arizona’s illegal immigrants, the cities would appear less hypocritical.

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By Prudence, May 3, 2010 at 10:02 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Enforcing laws which already exist would have the same effect;
however, the US Government neglects their sworn duty to
uphold the law. 

So of course most Americans want the law enforced—- by
somebody.  Arizona is protecting it’s borders and stopping
illegal activity!  The state has to do what the US government
neglects to do—and the US government should pick up the tab
and be roundly shamed!  All states should protect their borders
and stop illegal immigration.  The US has defaulted on its duty.

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By G.Anderson, May 3, 2010 at 9:57 pm Link to this comment

The American people have their own agenda, a much different one than the daily psyop’s of the corporations, it’s called survival.

Morality, is becoming unaffordable.

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By mrfreeze, May 3, 2010 at 9:34 pm Link to this comment

I have a solution that may please everyone:

Bring home 95% of our military stationed in other countries (especially Germany, Italy, Okinawa, etc.) and let them guard the border with Mexico. If a majority of Americans feel a quasi-military solution to illegal immigration is necessary, then let’s at least get our money’s worth out of all those military families doing essentially nothing for our “empire.”

This should make all the soldiers of fortune and crypto-nazi type Americans very, very happy.

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By c00p, May 3, 2010 at 7:29 pm Link to this comment

Surely this is not surprising.  Most Americans are a tad short on many things.

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By blindjustice, May 3, 2010 at 7:13 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Check it out…illegal immigrants strengthening the fabric of America.

INS/FBI Statistical Report on Undocumented Immigrants
2006 (First Quarter)

95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.
83% of warrants for murder in Phoenix are for illegal aliens.
86% of warrants for murder in Albuquerque are for illegal aliens.
75% of those on the most wanted list in Los Angeles, Phoenix and Albuquerque are illegal aliens.
24.9% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally
40.1% of all inmates in Arizona detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally
48.2% of all inmates in New Mexico detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally
29% (630,000) convicted illegal alien felons fill our state and federal prisons at a cost of $1.6 billion annually
53% plus of all investigated burglaries reported in California, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona and Texas are perpetrated by illegal aliens.
50% plus of all gang members in Los Angeles are illegal aliens from south of the border.
71% plus of all apprehended cars stolen in 2005 in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and California were stolen by Illegal aliens or “transport coyotes”.
47% of cited/stopped drivers in California have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 47%, 92% are illegal aliens.
63% of cited/stopped drivers in Arizona have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 63%, 97% are illegal aliens
66% of cited/stopped drivers in New Mexico have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 66% 98% are illegal aliens.

BIRTH STATISTICS
380,000 plus “anchor babies” were born in the U.S. in 2005 to illegal alien parents, making 380,000 babies automatically U.S.citizens and, under our laws, entitled to invite the rest of their family to join them.
97.2% of all costs incurred from those births were paid by the American taxpayers.
66% plus of all births in California are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal whose births were paid for by taxpayers.

Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/illegal-immigration/92360-statistics-destruction-american-society-due-illegal.html#ixzz0mvGyEp8H

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By Jimnp72, May 3, 2010 at 7:01 pm Link to this comment

sure they do. they re elected Bush, after all.

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By SWAIN, May 3, 2010 at 6:20 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I AM A SUPPORTER OF ARIZONAS LAW BECAUSE HAVING A AUNT DIE AT
THE HANDS OF AN ILLEGAL & BECAUSE THE ILLEGALS ARE DOING THE
DIRTY WORK &  POINT MAN FOR MEXICOS AGENDA WHICH IS TO DO AS
MUCH DAMAGE TO AMERICA AS THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH WHICH
INCLUDES DRUGS ETC. AMERICANS THAT CODDLE ILLEGALS ARE DOING
MEXICOS BIDDING THINKING THEY ARE DOING THE CHRISTIAN WORK BUT
THEY ARE BEING MISLED.

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