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Ear to the Ground

Mississippi Legislators Decide When Life Begins

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Posted on Nov 4, 2011
Wikimedia Commons

Now? No, not yet.

Conservative types sure are liberal about whom, or what, they’re willing to call a person. Hey, corporations are people too! And according to Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour and other like-minded state legislators, so is a fertilized egg.

Barbour opted to vote and tell on Friday about his decision in the latest ballot battle over where exactly to pinpoint life’s starting point. Despite some vague burblings of doubt he made earlier in the week, the governor left no room for any pro-choice compromises by supporting an amendment to the state constitution that would mark the moment of conception as the official beginning of personhood from a legislative standpoint. 

This initiative, of course, would have a serious impact on a number of related interests and practices of the medical, legal and sociopolitical nature. And if you thought it might have something to do with, say, the possibility of upending Roe v. Wade, you’d be right.  —KA

CNN:

Initiative 26 would define personhood as “every human being from the moment of fertilization, cloning or the functional equivalent thereof.”

Though the text of the amendment is simple, the implications if it passes couldn’t be more complex. If approved by Mississippi voters on Tuesday, it would make it impossible to get an abortion and hamper the ability to get some forms of birth control.

Because the amendment would define a fertilized egg as a person with full legal rights, it could have an impact on a woman’s ability to get the morning-after pill or birth control pills that destroy fertilized eggs, and it could make in vitro fertilization treatments more difficult because it could become illegal to dispose of unused fertilized eggs. This could lead to a nationwide debate about women’s rights and abortion while setting up a possible challenge to the landmark Roe v. Wade case, which makes abortion legal.

The ballot initiative is part of a national campaign brought by Personhood USA. The Colorado-based group describes itself as a nonprofit Christian ministry that “serves the pro-life community by assisting local groups to initiate citizen, legislative, and political action focusing on the ultimate goal of the pro-life movement: personhood rights for all innocent humans.”

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Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, November 9, 2011 at 6:37 am Link to this comment

Okay, but…  Americans are permitted by law to terminate life in
four types of situations: abortion (Supreme Court decision in 1973),
capital punishment (the Supreme Court struck down the death penalty
laws of 39 states in Furman v. Georgia, (but nineteen states not yet
ready to fire the executioner restored the penalty), war (declared and
undeclared), and, in some jurisdictions, suicide.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/abortion/mag.htm

Suicide is legal in Oregon upheld through the federal courts so there is
no valid federal law that supersedes it. The Supreme Court declined to
hear it, therefore the decision stands.

A little more:  The constitution of any country confers certain inherent
fundamental rights and freedom to its citizens. These rights include but
are not limited to right to live, right to education, right to employment,
freedom of speech and expression etc.  Having said so, it is important to
state here that that the rights are discretionary in nature, i.e. right to
work does not essentially mean that one is required to work. Similarly,
right to business does not compel any one to have a business. The rights
are PERMISSIVE in nature but not MANDATORY.

The so called fundamental rights are however subject to reasonable
restrictions as may be more specifically laid out in Constitution of a
particular State like decency, public morality, etc.  It is felt that attempt
to commit suicide is a crime belonging to a genre that signifies societal
disapproval of an act against sanctity of human life. Thus by declaring
attempt to commit suicide a crime the law seems to uphold the dignity of
human life. In fact, in the case of Euthanasia and physician assisted
suicide(s), the countries that advocate ‘mercy killing’ are Holland,
Northern Provinces of Australia as well as some states in the United
States of America. The Netherlands is the first country in the world to
legalize euthanasia. ‘Right to death’ is different from euthanasia.
Euthanasia means ‘a good and peaceful death’. The term ‘terminal’, as
defined by medical experts, as a disease that cannot be cured or has no
remedy. However, the final remedy is death.

One may however conclude/argue that right to live includes right to die
(on the basis of permissive nature of these rights). This is because for
those whose basic necessities of life are yet to be met the promise of
right to life still remains as the last hope. I would, of course, not agree
with this one.  Desire of communion with God may very rightly lead even
a very healthy mind to think that he would forego his right to live and
would rather choose not to live. It would be my opinion that this idea is
unhealthy in all cases. But, a dying, terminally ill person or one in a
persistent vegetative state seeking termination of his or her life may be
covered by the ambit of the right to die with dignity, as a part of the
right to live with dignity, when death due to termination of natural life is
certain and imminent and the process of natural death has commenced.
These are not cases of extinguishing life but only of accelerating the
conclusion of the process of natural death, which has already
commenced. However such termination is also unlawful in many of the
countries.

A reasonable argument: The above claim however does not hold firm.
The principle that fundamental rights such as freedom of speech also
include the negative aspect of the right, i.e., that there should not be
compulsion to exercise the right, is not applicable to the right to life
because of the difference in the nature of the rights in question. This is
because it is the right to life that gives right to such other rights. If there
is no right to live, other rights would have no significance to mankind. 
Suicide is an unnatural termination or extinction of life and, therefore,
incompatible and inconsistent with the concept of right to life.

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By heterochromatic, November 8, 2011 at 8:58 pm Link to this comment

Sher—i don’t think that too many of the laws making suicide a criminal offense are
still on the books. Last time i checked it, was decades ago and it was only a
handful of states still hadn’t given it up.

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Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, November 8, 2011 at 8:43 pm Link to this comment

Actually Chiristian, November 8 1:31am you are wrong, it is
illegal to attempt suicide.  If it is successful there is nothing
to worry about, but if not, the suicidee can be prosecuted.

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By heterochromatic, November 8, 2011 at 9:29 am Link to this comment

dear Christian…..  most folks don’t see it as committing murder, and Americans
don’t understand it to be murder.

matter of fact, it isn’t murder. matter of law, it isn’t murder.

put a fish egg in a Petri dish and fertilize it…...and you don’t have a fish on your
plate.

you want to define something as a human being, you’re going to have to look past
the moment of conception.

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By Chiristian, November 8, 2011 at 1:31 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I agree with this :
I understand that a woman has the inherent right to commit murder because it is her body.  we also have the right to kill ourselves because it is our body.  Liberty!
This just about puts Mississippi on the same level as the most destitute and backward third world country in the entire world, where women are forced to have intercourse, forced to bear the children that result, and forced to take major responsibility for their care and education - and without adequate resources, at that! With the world already over-populated such policies are flat-out cruel, inhuman, and insane. Period. Exclamation mark.  All Caps. Underlined. Italics.

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By heterochromatic, November 7, 2011 at 5:22 pm Link to this comment

it won’t pass into law and it will be struck down if it does.

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By Bill, November 6, 2011 at 1:15 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

This from a governor of a state that had no trouble recently executing a man when their is very serious credible evidence he was innocent of the crime. Most all of the testimony against him was recanted as those ‘witnesses’ all claimed great pressure
from the police to indicate guilt, and another man said he was the killer, while the man executed consistently claimed innocences, and that claim constituted his last living
words.

They sure care more about the unborn than they do the living in the state of Georgia is seems.

The irony is tragic.

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Shenonymous's avatar

By Shenonymous, November 5, 2011 at 12:45 pm Link to this comment

A quote, comments and a few objective websites and articles on
the topic might prove helpful in coming to an informed conclusion. 
“A sperm and an unfertilized egg jointly comprise the full genetic
blueprint for a human being. Under certain circumstances, after
fertilization, they can develop into a baby. But most fertilized eggs
are spontaneously miscarried. Development into a baby is by no
means guaranteed. Neither a sperm and egg separately, nor a
fertilized egg, is more than a potential baby or a potential adult.
So if a sperm and egg are as human as the fertilized egg produced
by their union, and if it is murder to destroy a fertilized egg–despite
the fact that it’s only potentially a baby–why isn’t it murder to destroy
a sperm or an egg?” 

The problem I see is that cells from a human body may be cloned into a
human being.  If this is so, then each and every human cell is potentially
a new human being.  What are the implications of that?!  Stem cell from
skin cell research for the cure and prevention of human afflicting
diseases is in fact cloning human cells.  It is further a fact that each
such cell is also potentially a human being.

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1472-6939/5/9
Variations and voids: the regulation of human cloning around the world

The implications of cloning will nullify the abortion laws based on
the moment of fertilization, since it has no real meaning.  It cannot
be determined when an ovum has been fertilized.  That means some
women will be able to be prosecuted because they were found to have
aborted a zygote or a fetus of just a few days, but others not making
the law unconstitutional by singling out a type of woman.  Furthermore
at what point would laws of human rights be determined.  One egg
versus millions of sperm.  Each sperm potentially is a human.  There is
insanity in this kind of thinking.  Imagine all the potential humans that
have lived and died in the existence of humans, about 108 trillion.  Say
50% were men, no actual figure is available, but of those men who were
virile and could have fathered children, and the number of sperm each
produced in their lifetime, the number of potential humans is staggering
and gives the law in Mississippi and elsewhere its sheen of stupidity. 
Usually one sperm will fertilize, but on occasion it is know that two
sperm fertilizes an ovum but an embryo created this way doesn’t
usually survive, though a few cases are known.
http://www.baby2see.com/multiples/twins.html

http://emerald7tfb.wordpress.com/
Introduction and Index to articles on Reproductive choice

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1704580,00.html
Scientists Clone Human Embryos
Michael D. Lemonick Thursday, Jan. 17, 2008

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robjira's avatar

By robjira, November 5, 2011 at 10:15 am Link to this comment

What gerard said…with a half dozen exclamation
points.

Report this

By Rodney, November 5, 2011 at 9:08 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

This whole issue about abortion and where life begins
comes down to one thing. Preventing white women from
not only having abortions but also limiting their
access to birth control and pregnacy prevention.
Southern white racists I mean conservatives, realize
that with the large influx of Latinos and blacks they
are beginning to lose nationwide and even statewide
elections in the south. America within the next
twenty years will no longer be a majority white
country. The only way to slow that down is to keep
white women from having abortions and limiting their
access not only to the morning after pill, but to
birth control altogether. That’s one of the reasons
they managed to keep health care providers from
covering abortions, and prescription plans from
covering the morning after pill. They are even trying
to force women to bear children even if the are the
victims or rape or incest in order keep a majority
white country. Their goal is to make another Barack
Obama from ever happening again. So they have come up
with a new strategy, the civil whites legislation.
That means a drivers license with a picture, or
governmental issued picture identification in order
to vote. No early voting. No voting if you ever have
a felony conviction, even if you payed your debt to
society. Can’t use a college ID to register or to
vote, but a hunting license is allowed. It all ties
in together. Abortion or a lack there of is just
another means for the racists I mean conservatives to
keep their grip on the presidency. Or at least keep
the south as racist I mean as conservative for as
long as they can.

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johnnyfarout's avatar

By johnnyfarout, November 5, 2011 at 7:52 am Link to this comment

•  So Mississippi has new citizens now bloodless and skinless and looking as unlike actual human beings as possible. Adding to ‘legal’ human existence tiny little unformed cellular clumps, along with business filings by fee minded lawyers creating charters as thick as an actual child’s fingernail. Heady with abstractions, marching into the evolving future, confident with declarations, they are making the future safe for things that are not true. Actual human beings, the real flesh and blood ones, are left out in the cold heartless world where things hurt and do go bump in the night. Are these people thinking at all…or just taking advantage of centuries of real ignorance? Truly abstractionists, with no respect whatsoever for the material world, they are going about making the human condition darker, more alone, something in between the legislature and the slamming jail door straight from a courtroom hearing, and sadly even more tragic.

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By larrypsy, November 5, 2011 at 7:09 am Link to this comment

Repugnicans are going to require more volunteers to
engage in warfare - we really should bring back the
draft so people become concerned about their own kin.

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By rumblingspire, November 4, 2011 at 8:23 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I choose to believe that my life began at the point of fertilization.  at that point the physical me was in place. 

i also believe it is murder to stop the process once fertilization begins.

I understand that a woman has the inherent right to commit murder because it is her body.  we also have the right to kill ourselves because it is our body.  Liberty!

the female has a unique position under the law, she has the right to decide life or death.  and only she need wrestle with her soul.

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Outraged's avatar

By Outraged, November 4, 2011 at 5:57 pm Link to this comment

Again, were back to the same crazy “Christian Nation”
people.  These people are psychotic.  They want to
get the US ready for the second coming of Christ.  At least their idea of “the second coming”.  They’ve aligned themselves with big money so the problem isn’t going to go away anytime soon.

“The head of Personhood Mississippi is right wing
activist Les Riley, a featured blogger of the group
Christian Exodus, which has “goal of forming an
independent Christian nation that will survive after
the decline and fall of the financially and morally
bankrupt American empire.”

Christian Exodus had attempted to move thousands of
supporters to South Carolina in order to “form a
biblically inspired government and secede from the
United States,” and also has close ties to the
separatist and Neo-Confederate League of the South.
Christian Exodus also is encouraging adherents to
move to Panama and Idaho in order to build theocratic
settlements.”

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/leading-republicans-embrace-personhood-amendment-and-“christian-exodus”-separatist-advocate

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By gerard, November 4, 2011 at 3:50 pm Link to this comment

This just about puts Mississippi on the same level as the most destitute and backward third world country in the entire world, where women are forced to have intercourse, forced to bear the children that result, and forced to take major responsibility for their care and education - and without adequate resources, at that! With the world already over-populated such policies are flat-out cruel, inhuman, and insane. Period. Exclamation mark.  All Caps. Underlined. Italics.

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