Wildeye, - “The conspiracy is implicit in the statement.”

-

No.  Only an avid conspiracy theorist, or someone not desiring to hear another, would take anything I’ve written and construe my words as portending a conspiracy amongst the so-called News Media.  I implied nothing of the kind.  You only imagined as much. - You saw it on the Fox News Web site.

This “News and Current Events” Web space, mainly populated by the “Left”, is FULL of conspiracy theories daily.  Yes daily.  Let us not try to paint everyone on the right or middle as somehow separate or unique in this human behavior. - Fox News programming does not encapsulate its viewers any more than viewers can be defined by simply watching Reliable Sources on CNN.  No direct offense implied, however, that’s clearly stupid.

I am not a big fan of Fox News.  Why you would use items from the Fox web site to prove you understand something of me is beyond my understanding.  After your next post I’ll simply look up Ted Kaczynski’s manifesto and reply directly to you.

I am equally no fan of the equally ideological MSNBC. But I will defend that both MSNBC and Fox have a voice and each has a right to exist. - Yes, Fox has a much larger voice as it has a much larger percentage of people choosing to look toward Fox for news on current events.

More than prior I am convinced that you personally dislike Fox News because Fox fails to tow your line.  Fox fails to see and present current events as you see them and wish events presented.  And for that you, along with most here, wish Fox News to be no more.  Silencio.  It seems to me as simple as that.

come on people. CNN, MSNBC, FOX are all passionate advocates of a CORPORATE
agenda. fox news is more extreme in their deception, while the olbermanns,
maddows, and jon stewarts snicker and make fun while never significantly
challenging our corporate state either. one is not more evil than the other. it is
ALL total bullshit. support non-corporate media.

“CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, Bridges, HNN and, particularly MSNBC, are all passionate advocates of a liberal leaning agenda.”

The conspiracy is implicit in the statement. However, I will concede you never used those exact words. Mea culpa. On the other hand, the left-wing conspiracy meme is an integral part of how Fox News sells itself so it was an honest inference.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,359741,00.html

http://radio.foxnews.com/2009/11/30/how-the-left-swiftboated-america-the-media-conspiracy-to-make-you-think-gw-bush-was-the-worst-ever/

http://www.foxnews.com/search-results/search?q=“left+wing+conspiracy”

Wildeye, - “If you’ve already bought into the theory that Republicans are the victims of a Leftist media conspiracy…”

-

Please try to remember that you’re not writing to some straw person.  I never wrote anything close to what you conjured from imagination. - With that in mind, you are absolutely correct.  Nothing you’ve written so far would change many minds.

@Go Right Young Man

“CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, Bridges, HNN and, particularly MSNBC, are all passionate advocates of a liberal leaning agenda.”

If you’ve already bought into the theory that Republicans are the victims of a Leftist media conspiracy than I doubt anything I say is going to change your mind but you might want to consider who sold you that idea in the first place and who benefits the most off of your belief that it is true.

“I suspect your dislike and/or distrust of Fox News is due to the fact that Fox beats the hell out of all of the above in ratings and revenue.”

I do not evaluate truth based on ratings or revenue.

Fox News has every right to exist but not to misrepresent itself as something it is not, a news organization. However, that probably means nothing to you if your definition of a news organization includes partisan advocacy.

“The Right has its “Birthers” and the Left has its “Truthers”.”

False equivalence. Truthers are a very, very small fringe of both the Far Left and Extreme Right - just because Jesse Ventura gets air time on the ocassional news show doesn’t make his views legitimate or widespread. Birthers, on the other hand are a significant part of the conservative movement:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/22/us/politics/22birthers.html?_r=1

I don’t need someone to agree with me to respect them as long as they can defend their differences rationally. Cheers!

The following is the latest communiqué from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention regarding Fox News disease; you might find it helpful.

“Due to the Federal Communications Act of 1996 the disease known as Fox News disease has become a national epidemic. Prior to the Fedearal communications act of 1996 the Fox News disease could have been kept to a localized endemic, but alas, the poorly thought out Federal Communications Act of 1996 allowed for the spread of this horrific disease.

Complicating the fight against this disease is the fact that Fox News viewers have poor hygienic practices. Fox viewers seldom bathe, and contact with Fox Viewers can cause contagion. It’s highly recommended that physical contact with Fox News viewers should be avoided. To put it succinctly, Fox News viewers, are, as a sociological sub-group, unwashed and not touching them is of the highest importance. Due to the proliferation of Fox news, and because determining who Fox viewers are can be difficult, it’s recommended that hands be washed frequently and hand sanitizer be used liberally. Also, skuzzy looking people should be avoided. “

(GRYMie is a moron)

I return to my original post.

-

The point here is that Jon Stewart feels that all who think unlike himself are, simply out, stupid in not viewing the world as he does.  He makes it clear that he truly believe this.

Stewart voices an all-too-common belief from the Left side of politics.  About as common as the Right feels the Left is weak on defense and the economy.

The Right has its “Birthers” and the Left has its “Truthers”.  All very human.

Wildeye,

CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, Bridges, HNN and, particularly MSNBC, are all passionate advocates of a liberal leaning agenda.  Many of the above have been doing it for over forty years.

I suspect your dislike and/or distrust of Fox News is due to the fact that Fox beats the hell out of all of the above in ratings and revenue.

Liberal-minded Westerners, unfortunately, detest opposing passions and views (opposing views are “stupid”).  Until the recent Tea Party phenomenon it has been, by and large, liberal crowds which “shout down” opposing points of view. - Example: revisit the comments here regarding Fox News Network.

Fox is no better or worse than competing television “news networks’.  It’s only different.  It’s that very difference that sets it apart.  It’s that very separateness that the liberal-minded detest so forcefully and passionately.

-

I don’t care for FOX News.  But I will defend its right to exist.

@Go Right Young Man

“Fox just happens to be the only television news organ which advocates a conservative view.”

Pravda (Russian: ??????, “Truth”, pronunciation (help·info)) was a leading newspaper of the Soviet Union and an official organ of the Central Committee of the Communist Party between 1912 and 1991.

Advocating a particular viewpoint means not “Fair and Balanced” and not really a news organization so much as a propoganda machine for conservatives. There’s a reason we’re talking about Fox News in the context of misinformation.

D.R. Zing, - “I must sincerely disagree.  Fox News does indeed have the right to exist, but it should not be able to call itself a news outlet.”

-

You write that Fox News has every right to exist, then go in another, very different, direction.  I didn’t see any disagreement with my prior statements. 

Don’t get me wrong.  I dislike FOX News so much that the only program I view on any regular basis is Fox News Sunday.  But then none of this is the topic of this one thread.

What you limn, in my mind, describes every television “news” organ existing today.  Fox just happens to be the only television news organ which advocates a conservative view.  That, and Fox’s stunning success in ratings, brings on the ire of “progressive”-minded Americans. - O’Reily 5a.m. reruns beats MSNBC prime-time programming.

-

I frankly don’t understand your context which puts Fox News in the category of a state run news organ.  I understand enough to know you are not suggesting Fox advocates for the White House.

nash - you misunderstood completely. by criticizing jon stewart, i’m not defending
fox news. they’re both corporate owned and they both mislead their audiences, but
in different ways.
i find it really hard to believe that an honest, well-informed, logical person can
watch the daily show without their head exploding. fox news is OBVIOUS
misinformation, while jon stewart’s deception is more subtle and i would say more
insidious. he makes fun of liars, but then continues to omit the whole truth. what
he DOESN’T say on his show should infuriate true progressives, especially when he
interviews criminals like albright, zbig, kissinger, both clintons, and most recently
RUMSFELD - and kisses their ass the whole time. how can any honest, well-
informed, logical person stomach that?

Although FOX has proven itself over and over again to be a political tool of the Right and by definition not a journalistic medium but a propoganda medium, the media in general have over time sunk to the level of near-tabloid sensationalism which is Jon Stewart’s point. The media are tools of the corporations that own them - it’s just with FOX its painfully obvious.

“the(FOX)network overall did poorly in every poll.” The title should have been ‘Jon Stewart Fails Politifacts “Truth O Meter” but FOX viewers remain the most consistently misinformed viewers.’
Stewart’s point was just as the commenter on this article, JamesC, says it is. 
And apparently there are a few commenters here who are FOX noise’s misinformed. You know who you are by how much you tear Stewart down and try to defend FOX’s lies. Hear me vote and russian paul?
Dusty Bottoms, I hear you, you’re correct.

Jon Stewart is a satirist, a modern court jester tweaking the noses of the most powerful who are quite apt to lop off his head when he stops making them laugh. 

He’s doing what all court jesters have done throughout the ages: Saying what no one else can say.  Were the television news not so pathetic and fanatical about not admitting their fatal flaws, Stewart would be making jokes about something else. 

@ Go Right Young Man: I must sincerely disagree.  Fox News does indeed have the right to exist, but it should not be able to call itself a news outlet. 

In its current state, Fox News should be forced to remove the word news from all its marketing, logos, and multi-media branding. It should be forced to refer to itself as Fox Entertainment, because that’s what it is, an entertainment station posing as a news outlet. 

A better solution would be to break it up into a single corporation, a corporation not owned by another corporation, a corporation that does not own other corporations. 

I must add that you are making a mistake.  Would it have been a mistake to disintegrate the state-owned news networks of the Soviets?  Would it be a mistake now for China to label all of its state-owned media as “for entertainment purposes only”? 

Allowing free speech is one thing.  Bastardizing the word news and allowing it to be applied to an organization that specializes in disinformation, distraction and divisiveness—that is the hallmark of dictatorships and tyrannies.

You’re looking at the wrong end of the horse and wondering why he has no teeth and black gums.

BobZ, - “Fox News is a brilliant media at exploiting the anti-intellectualism element in America. Progressive don’t need to reward that by appearing on Fox News.”

-

I’m sure several “Progressives” will wholeheartedly agree with you.  Look at what you wrote. -  You’re saying that all who come from a different background, those who see things differently, those who disagree with you are really stupid people and never important enough for even an acknowledgment. - The Great Unwashed. Untouchables.

My question is this:  Do you understand yourself to be an extremely dangerous pompous ass?

You are the reason a meager 8% of the electorate identify themselves as “progressive”.  Your horrific attitude has proven many times to be terribly dangerous to an open society.

Only in a closed, dictatorial, heavily regimented society would a cable channel like FOX News be free from cogent criticism, and statistical analysis.

(GRYMie is a moron!)

NABNYC:

That’s why I liked Keith Olbermann so much. He didn’t waste his time or his
viewers time by bringing on right wing guests. The Republican’s haven’t had a new
idea in generations, and most informed viewers know the right wing talking points
by heart. How many times do we have to hear, reduce taxes, cut entitlements,
increase the military, and deregulate. Bill Maher insists on bringing on Andrew
Brietbart who is a raving lunatic. Stewart should not have gone on Fox News and I
hope he wasn’t as surprised as he said about Wallace drinking the Fox News
Koolaid. Wallace is no better than the other Fox hosts. Fox News is a brilliant
media at exploiting the anti-intellectualism element in America. Progressive don’t
need to reward that by appearing on Fox News.

I see a very disturbing impulse on the part of liberals to debate the right-wing, to try to show themselves as being open-minded and fair, that they can win on the facts, are not deceitful like the right.  Let’s ask this question:  suppose a liberal was standing in Libya watching the U.S. drop bombs onto schools and hospitals, blowing up the bodies of little children, the sick, the disabled.  Would the liberal then proceed to “debate” with the right-wing the legitimacy of the U.S. bombing Libya, attacking the population of a nation that has never attacked or threatened the U.S. or any other country, dropping bombs supposedly because a few hundred traitors on the CIA payroll were play-acting as “rebels.”  Would a debate be worthwhile in that situation?  Of course not.  These people don’t make decisions based on facts, so it’s a waste of time.  Why try to curry favor from the right-wing?

That’s what this whole silly episode is, starting with Jon Stewart’s rather bizarre decision to appear on Fox in the first place.  Bill Maher does something similar:  he packs his show with right-wingers so he can show how clever he can be in debating them.  I’m not interested.  I like Bill Maher, but I find his actions in giving a forum to the right-wing to be disgusting, motivated by some silly vanity.  They already have Fox 24 hours/day, they don’t need to also gain access to more liberal forums.

Jon Stewart sometimes confuses his role.  He’s a comedian.  He’s funny, topical.  But when he went on Rachel Maddow, he did not look quite so good when he didn’t have a crowd of writers backing him up.  I’m sure he’s a smart guy, but maybe he’s confusing himself with a character he plays on TV.

As far as other media outlets “covering” the Jon Stewart appearance on Fox, what is the point?  This isn’t news, it’s just silliness.  Who was the most clever?  I think we know everything we need to know about Chris Wallace from his prior statements slamming and humiliating his own father who apparently was suffering from dementia.  Chris Wallace is a pig, even without the Fox job. 

It’s obvious that Jon Stewart meant Fox viewers are the most stupid, and poorly informed, of the viewers from the major network news shows.  That’s it.  To debate his statement as if a proclamation from on high, with nuanced analysis, is truly pathetic.

Jon Stewart is an entertainer, with a terrific show.  He really shouldn’t be appearing on Fox as a newsmaker, because that just serves to further confuse and inflame the already stupid people who watch Fox.  Chris Wallace is a pig.  That’s it.

gerard,

In so many of your posts you appear to bitterly dislike people who view the world differently.  FOX News is no exception.

With the exception of PBS News Hour and Charley Rose I am no fan of television news, however, only in a closed, dictatorial, heavily regimented society would a cable channel like FOX News not have a right to exist.

It’s obvious that the dems’ base is much more intelligent than the repub base. After all they voted for Obama. Ha, ha, ha, ha! Bwaaaaaa!

@ Russian Paul, June 21 at 5:20 pm

and what about jon stewart’s viewers? it’s easy to make fun of other mainstream
news shows, but what does he offer? perhaps a morsel of truth now and then, but
mostly just cheap jokes and the same regurgitated partisan rhetoric. and when he
gets called on it he claims “hey it’s just a comedy show!” right. he gets to interview
some of the most powerful people in the country and he tosses them softballs.
there is nothing honest about him and his show keeps people misinformed on real
issues.”

ZING!

Stewart was right, Polifact is wrong.
http://www.desmogblog.com/jon-stewart-1-politifact-0-
fox-news-viewers-are-most-misinformed

Carolyn Kay
MakeThemAccountable.com

In a real participatory democracy that provided every citizen with a high school education adequate to qualify him/her to really participate in democratic government, Fox News couldn’t exist—except perhaps as a comedy show.

An article which attempts to assassinate the very concept of truth.

Forget the polls.  There was an independent university study that showed Fox viewers were the least informed and the most misinformed.

All one has to do is watch Fox for a while to see that 99% of their guests are right-wingers who are never challenged about what they say.  Although, to be honest, whenever Rove or Cheney show up I immediately change the channel.

What’s really tragic is the degree of general ignorance
of history by the vast majority of our citizenry. What
percentage of the population can correctly answer any
basic question pertaining to our nation’s past?  If you
asked a random sampling of the population who is buried
in Grant’s Tomb, most would not know who Grant was.

Seems like a “pile on Jon Stewart party here. Since no one is without some merit, I’ll go to his corner with a styptic.

Well, maybe the “mea culpa” he offered last night,(something you’ll never hear from FIXED News), will offer a bit of contrast. He openly apologized for not having included his own show in the mix. He may be schtick(y) comedian with a clever take on the nonesense proffered by our elected officials, but he at least has a sense of honesty.

After the apology he went further to elaborate PolitiFact’s focus on truth in which he delineated the lies that FOX has perpetrated over the last few years, some of which were quite telling and none of which have been recanted or corrected. Where else in the MSM do you find that kind of reporting? If MSN were doing their job, Jon Stewart would be schlepping a monologue at the comedia centers.

The average citizen, who, to his or her own detriment, whether it be a time constraint or laziness, can not or does not explore deeper into policy matters, is being led by the nose. Stewart’s intercessions may not measure up to Twain or Will Rogers, nonetheless he is cut from the same cloth and is often quite refreshing.

Stewart knows the length of his leash:

http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2010/10/31/trick-or-truth/

The point here, it seems to me, is that Jon Stewart feels that all who think unlike himself are, plainly put, stupid for not viewing the world as he does.  He makes it clear that he truly believe this.

Stewart voices an all-too-common belief from the Left side of politics.  About as common as the Right feels the Left is weak on defense and the economy.

The Right has its “Birthers” and the Left has its “Truthers”.  All very human.

wildeye - and that’s the same excuse he uses every time. call the show
whatever you like, it’s extremely popular and for better or worse millions of
young people tune to the show not just for comedy, but for news. and he
chooses to not significantly challenge the corporate democrats, he chooses to
perpetuate the myth that there are two parties and instead of being bought out,
the democrats are just cowardly and weak-spined. he plays down the ways in
which obama’s administration is mirroring his predecessor’s. and again, there is
no excuse for having an extremely powerful person on your show and lobbing
softballs to them. he’s really awful when it comes to that.

as “vote” aptly put it:

  Are you Bill Hicks or are you Bob Hope?  You can’t be both at once.

@Russian Paul

Journalists are supposed to be objective and impartial. Comedians, not so much.

Also to the extent that comedy is based on truth and that empirical facts are often used on The Daily Show to expose lies and hypocrisy than I’m sure some people do get their “news” from a comedy show. That doesn’t make it a “mainstream news show.”

Jon Stewert knocked Crossfire off the air.  They deserved it.  He knocked Tucker Carlson all the way to PBS!  He called out Cramer the phony stock barker.  He deserved it.  But when someone criticizes him, he hides behind “Oh, well, we’re comedians here, we make d**k jokes.”  Which is it? Are you Bill Hicks or are you Bob Hope?  You can’t be both at once.  Also he viscously attacks Christianity and Islam, then makes a couple dradle jokes and claims to be equal in his treatment of religion.  Having said that, if the same level of scrutiny was applied to Fox ‘news’ that is being applied to Mr. Stewert here, there wouldn’t be enough time or resources to cover it all.

mrfreeze- that’s just it. stewart’s claim that he’s only a mere “comedian” and
therefore should not be subject to the same criticism as other mainstream
news outlets is a cop out. millions of young people tune in to hear stewart’s
take on current events. whither he likes it or not, the daily show has turned into
an extremely influential mainstream news show, albeit with a comedic slant.

i think what he does is more crafty than the talking heads at fox. their bullshit
can be seen through miles away, but stewart is far more crafty. he’s a talented
comic, he makes a few decent points here and there and make fun of democrats
too so that people don’t think he’s completely partisan, but for the most part
he tacitly supports the corporate democrats and makes fun of corporate media
without offering anything in its place. the fact that he’s had all these politicians
and former presidents on his show and he just kisses their ass the whole time
shows that he’s not only dishonest, but a coward. yes, i do think true
comedians are honest, there’s a lot of humor in uncovering the myriad of lies
we are told, that’s what the best comics tend to do.

Fox so called news is a lie and distortion machine.  Examples:  The way they handled the Shirley Sherrod story and page after page on Media Matters.  Fox cannot operate in Canada since they take their laws against broadcasting lies and distortions seriously.  Doubt that Rupert Murdoch could operate like he does in the U.S., in his native Australia.  Fox would not know a liberal if one bit them on the backside.  Whenever someone goes even a little left of center and criticizes them they go nuts.  In a good world the U.S. would pull Murdoch’s citizenship and toss the a-hole out of the country.

So PolitiFact is right because they relied on crappy polls to prove their point?

Or perhaps Stewart is right when you consider Fox’s audience of birthers, deathers, and deniers most recently. Yeah, it does matter what questions you ask.

Here’s another take on PolitiFact:

http://solidaritywisconsin.com/content/politifact-cant-see-either-forest-or-trees-just-wmcs-point-view

Assuming PolitiFact’s Pulitzer was originally justified, they have now succumbed to the cowardice of the rest of the media by twisting the truth to avoid criticism from the Right; just the opposite of objective and impartial.

Russian Paul - Since when are comedians judged by their “honesty?” And as for throwing softballs….what about the last travesty-masquerading-as-serious-public-discourse…the “Republican Debate?” I can forgive Stewart for not living up to some Platonic Ideal of journalism but the very fact that Stewart can show up at FOX propaganda-network’s HQ and eviscerate their main talking head just goes to show how utterly vapid and useless the MSM has become.

Just like if you view MSNBC, you’re likely to hear all day about the crimes of the republicans, but you will be uninformed about the right wing, corporatist, warmongering policy of the democrats.

and what about jon stewart’s viewers? it’s easy to make fun of other mainstream
news shows, but what does he offer? perhaps a morsel of truth now and then, but
mostly just cheap jokes and the same regurgitated partisan rhetoric. and when he
gets called on it he claims “hey it’s just a comedy show!” right. he gets to interview
some of the most powerful people in the country and he tosses them softballs.
there is nothing honest about him and his show keeps people misinformed on real
issues.