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Ear to the Ground

Israel: No to Middle East Nuke Talks

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Posted on May 29, 2010
nuclear glove box
Wikimedia Commons

Mordechai Vanunu, a former Israeli nuclear technician who leaked details of Israel’s nuclear weapons program to the British press in 1986, took this photograph of an Israeli nuclear research center glove box containing nuclear materials.

Israel has publicly denied that it has a nuclear program and pointed to the fact that India and Pakistan, two countries with announced nuclear programs, were not criticized in the document but have also not yet signed the nonproliferation treaty. —JCL

The BBC:

Israel says it will not take part in a conference aimed at achieving a nuclear-arms free Middle East, proposed at a UN meeting in New York.

Nearly 200 nations, signatories of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), backed plans for the meeting in 2012.

In a document agreed at the talks, Israel was singled out for criticism.

Israel, which has not signed the NPT, dismissed the document as “deeply flawed” and “hypocritical”.

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PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, June 1, 2010 at 6:28 pm Link to this comment

Ya Pete, the early Jewish settlers had a rich history in America with the masons and George Washington.

http://www.iamthewitness.com/books/Walter.White/Who.Brought.the.Slaves.to.America.htm

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Peter Knopfler's avatar

By Peter Knopfler, June 1, 2010 at 5:48 pm Link to this comment

The Thorn in Thomas Jeffersons side, Patrick Henry, “GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH” Americans need to be more proud of their Masonic History, Founding Fathers were Masons first, then Christians, Look AT the American ONE DOLLAR BILL, Yes WASHINGTONS PRESIDENTIAL SEAL is the STAR of DAVID Dear Henry, YES the FIRST 13 STATES in the configuration of the Star OF David, as far back as YOUR FIRST PRESIDENT THAT SUPPORTED JEWS and was inturn supported by JEWS. Please know your History of March 23 1775 from the Virginian Patrick Henry, no more brain farts PARICK, “just the facts “Henry!

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PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, June 1, 2010 at 4:22 pm Link to this comment

Peter Knopfler, spamming your own tired jewish supremacist BS with all the worn out lies and false dogma.

Israel only knows how to bully the weak and underarmed and would fail miserably if the U.S. were to pull it aid, much of which is obtained by blackmail.

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Peter Knopfler's avatar

By Peter Knopfler, June 1, 2010 at 11:04 am Link to this comment

HERE WE GO AGAIN BBC ANNOUNCES THAT ALQUEDA number 3 gets killed by a drone predator, BBC, CNN, FOX, abc,CBS,... Only Aljizeera, who I dislike told the complete facts that the Alqueda`s WIFE ·3 DAUGHTERS.AND A GRANDDAUGHTER PLUS SERVANTS IN THE HOUSE all are Killed by OBAMA drones, Where is the INTERNATIONAL VOICE, where is the UN, The ARAB LEAGUE, what a JOKE Israel will not let the boats of activists through the 4 year old blockade, Israel will send a message of pre-emption by the handling of the blockade. Yes Israel needs to understand that the International community plus UNITED NATIONS ARE THE First to BETRAY ISRAEL. So I FEEL ISRAEL has to learn from past experience of betrayal from the WORLD COMMUNITY. Israel right from onset stands ALONE, fragments of Help sometimes but never fully accepted by the European Union countries, Arab-Muslim-Islamic nations etc.therefore ISRAEL gives the finger to the world, ISRAEL STANDS ALONE G_D BLESS ISRAEL, always the underdog, throughout history the victim, BUT NOT NO MORE! NEVER AGAIN IS THE MANTRA. BUSH ATTACKED IRAQ against the will of the International Communitee, and they still accept aid from USA, double standard is ONCE AGAIN PLACED ON ISRAEL AND ALL JEWS IN GENERAL considering there is only 14 million Jews world-wide and 1/2, 7 million in Israel, that can`t be left alone by 1.3 BILLION ARABS, go home before Israel kicks your butts AGAIN!

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tihsstaezevahc's avatar

By tihsstaezevahc, June 1, 2010 at 5:39 am Link to this comment

rfidler, June 1 at 8:27 am #

Hey Jay- tell us how you REALY feel about Hugo.

Jay is on a secret mission for the PTA down in Colombia. He went down there to be a guinea pig for a scientific taste test on Colombian cuisine. So far he tells me that the food is as good as the women are gorgeous. Too bad for the Chavistas across the border that have to eat their rats drenched in sweat by candlelight. There are chronic power blackouts and food shortages. Well candlelight gives the Boligarchs a sense of romanticism, don’t you think? Even Baby Doc Chavez’s stronghold, Casa de Miraflores, was left in the dark in the middle of a national televised inane rant by the Comandante.

Anyway getting back on subject.
As far as the Palestinian genocide issue Baby Doc Chavez has taken Jay’s lead and completely agrees with Jay on this one, so it seems. Jay says that he doesn’t think Baby Doc Chavez’s support can’t be that sincere because how can he care about the plight of Palestinians when he doesn’t care about the plight of his own Venezuelan people? Its all politics for Baby Doc Chavez. So says Jay.

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tihsstaezevahc's avatar

By tihsstaezevahc, June 1, 2010 at 5:21 am Link to this comment

PatrickHenry, June 1 at 7:47 am #

tihsstaezevahc, the Wikpedia is correct, it was off the coast of South Africa in 1979, the nuclear flash was picked up by one of our satellites.

There you go, Jay’s memory doesn’t fail him.

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rico, suave's avatar

By rico, suave, June 1, 2010 at 4:27 am Link to this comment

Hey Jay- tell us how you REALY feel about Hugo.

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PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, June 1, 2010 at 3:47 am Link to this comment

tihsstaezevahc, the Wikpedia is correct, it was off the coast of South Africa in 1979, the nuclear flash was picked up by one of our satellites.

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tihsstaezevahc's avatar

By tihsstaezevahc, May 31, 2010 at 8:30 pm Link to this comment

PH,

Jay says you were around then, you got to remember something.

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tihsstaezevahc's avatar

By tihsstaezevahc, May 31, 2010 at 8:24 pm Link to this comment

Jay says he remembers there was a report when South Africa was ruled by the apartheid white government that Israel tested its nuclear weapon with the collaboration of the South African government somewhere down in the Kalahari Desert. This is going back maybe 30 years. Jay remembers it distinctively. Jay says that if memory doesn’t fail him Israel nukes where actually developed in South Africa. It was a joint project.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Africa_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#Testing_the_first_device

It’s Wikipedia, but anybody interested do some research and verify it. 30 years ago this was an ope secret that kind of got swept under the rug.

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By Inherit The Wind, May 31, 2010 at 8:06 pm Link to this comment

omop, May 30 at 10:03 am #

The script is the same and parallels the historic as well as the histrionic posture
of the “chosen few”.

  Rabbi Fischer vice president of the Zionist Organization of America tells his
readers and followers (in the US and in the promised land) “If we Jews are
anything, we are a people of history … Our history provides the strength to know
that we can be right and the whole world wrong.”

“We were and still are right, and the whole world was wrong.”

Its like that infamous song “Deutschland uber alles”
******************************************

Another “Stupid Fact”.

Actually “Deutschland uber alles” was never intended to have anything to do with world domination:  It meant Germany first over Bavaria, Swabia, Schleswig-Holstein, Brandenburg-Prussia, Mecklenburg, etc.  It was EXACTLY the equivalent of saying “We are all Americans first” for a nation that was not united as “Germany” until 1871—nearly 100 years after WE declared independence. It was the anthem of the 1848 Revolution! It was twisted by Hitler to imply world domination.  It is still the national anthem of the Federal Republic today.

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rico, suave's avatar

By rico, suave, May 31, 2010 at 2:06 pm Link to this comment

Harges:
Is that photo you attached to your post a brain scan?

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rico, suave's avatar

By rico, suave, May 31, 2010 at 2:01 pm Link to this comment

PatHenry:
“The Israelis have threatened the Arabs to this day far more than the Arabs have threatened the Israelis.”

ARE YOU SERIOUS?????

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By omop, May 31, 2010 at 5:53 am Link to this comment

According to Turkish news reports.

Israeli forces have attacked a flotilla of aid-carrying ships aiming to break the
country’s siege on Gaza.

Up to 16 people were killed and dozens injured when troops stormed the
Freedom Flotilla early on Monday, the Israeli Army Radio said.

The flotilla was attacked in international waters, 65km off the Gaza coast.

Footage from the flotilla’s lead vessel, the Mavi Marmara, showed armed Israeli
soldiers boarding the ship and helicopters flying overhead.

The Israeli Army Radio said soldiers opened fire “after confronting those on
board carrying sharp objects”.

WILL HILARY THREATEN THE ISREALIS LIKE SHE THREATENED NORTH KOREA
OVER THE ATTACK ON SOUTH KOREA’S BOATS?

ONE WORD FOR THE US AND ITS ONLY DEMOCRATIC ALLY IN THE WORLD ” 
“DISGUSTING”.

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Ed Harges's avatar

By Ed Harges, May 30, 2010 at 9:22 pm Link to this comment

OK, OK. We know the Israelis are complete a$$holes. They’re pigs. But the only
reason we (we Americans, that is) have to care so much about this is the fact that
our government slavishly and lavishly supports the Israelis.

Solution?

Let’s just end that support, OK? Then we can still deplore what Israel does, but at
least we can look at it more philosophically, like, “OK, this is bad, but it’s
somebody else’s problem….”

Ah! Sweet detachment!

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By P. T., May 30, 2010 at 8:55 pm Link to this comment

We can now expect Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton—because we know they are not hypocritical—to call for sanctions against Israel until it ceases to defy the international community.  wink

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By ofersince72, May 30, 2010 at 7:12 pm Link to this comment

Peter,, you have been duped…

If the BBC is your news sourse.

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Robert's avatar

By Robert, May 30, 2010 at 6:57 pm Link to this comment

“The Unspoken Alliance”: New Book Documents Arms, Nuclear and Diplomatic Ties Between Israel and Apartheid South Africa


Part I


SASHA POLAKOW-SURANSKY:OK, well, another revelation in the book that the Guardian didn’t pick up on. Let me explain this one. It’s a little bit more complicated, but basically South Africa began to supply Israel with yellowcake uranium in 1961. South Africa has a great deal of natural resources, including uranium, and Israel needed it. It started in small amounts, and the shipments went to Israel. They were protected under bilateral safeguards, so not IAEA-style safeguards like we see today. This was an agreement between the two countries that the uranium would only be used for peaceful purposes. Between 1961 and 1976, the stockpile built up in Israel to about 500 tons of uranium.

The first part of this story is actually covered in Seymour Hersh’s book The Samson Option. What I do in this book is take it further. What happened in 1976 is the head of Israel’s scientific intelligence agency, called Lekem, its Hebrew acronym, he contacted the prime minister of South Africa and said, essentially, “We need this.” And the South African prime minister—

~~~~~~~~~

Click on links for Part 1 & part 2:

http://www.democracynow.org/2010/5/25/israel

http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2010/5/25/part_ii_the_unspoken_alliance_israels_secret_relationship_with_apartheid_south_africa

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Peter Knopfler's avatar

By Peter Knopfler, May 30, 2010 at 6:37 pm Link to this comment

Sorry I forgot to say I have been watching BBC cable
for years and in Cancun BBC is on cable, when living
in Canada or Hawaii I listened to BBC radio, for
years.  Sad to say that when it comes To Israel Jews
in General BBC is not fair 100% bias against Israel
down plays Muslim - Arab violence to Jews in Europe
and Israel. Yes BBC stinks on this one, I`m over
sixty and listened to BBC 35 years and I have never
never seen a country more intimidated by Islam as the
English people I do expect a backlash and young
English Men will take back what is rightfully theirs
ENGLAND. Just as Jews will Keep what is rightfully
theirs the City Of DAVID! JERUSALEM! Long live the
Jews!

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Peter Knopfler's avatar

By Peter Knopfler, May 30, 2010 at 6:18 pm Link to this comment

Israel 7 million Jews being threatened by the whole
world of Nations, 6.5 billion people going after 7
million jews which comprise of half the Overall
Jewish Population of only 14 Jews after 5770 years of
history and only 7 million compared to 1,2 billion
Muslims-Islam and 2,2 billion Christians with less
than half the History, yes, compare 5770 to 2010 or
1450, like killing your own great grandparents in
their own home. Shameful when Iran announces to wipe
out Israel, world does nothing, like WW2 Hitler
killing millions and the world did nothing, came
late.Multiple Arab countries attack Israel at Will
every few years like 1967, world does nothing!  Hamas
and Hezbolla bombs Isreal 10 years world does nothing
Israel Has Nukes So WHAT THE WORLD DOES NOTHING which
part of NEVER AGAIN don`t you understand Thank you

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By radson, May 30, 2010 at 12:51 pm Link to this comment

Inherit the Wind

How is the wind in Jersey these days ;I got a chuckle with your last post .Somehow NK’S bomb is not much compared to Israel’s ,so why all the fuss with North Korea and are you telling the
readership that the Israeli policy is not as ambiguous as the US says it is .Does Israel actually have to Test a nuke ,when Yankee big brother actually tested hundreds of them ,perhaps more ,and
wouldn’t that -the testing -actually negate the policy of Ambiguity.The great equalizer in order to halt the ten million man Arabic Horde is rather far fetched ,don’t you think?,but then again Wahabihism
is a fanatical Arabic ideology that can leave the most open-minded to think twice.Your mention of Iran possessing Nuclear Weapons is premature at the moment and merely an echo of the MSM ,which
your’re well aware of,but who not to trust with such weapons is an exercise in conjecture with Israel and Pakistan probably leading the international consensus.

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By gerard, May 30, 2010 at 9:15 am Link to this comment

ITW:  Trusting any nation or political entity with nukes is a grave risk indeed, all people being human and all politics being highly inflammable.  “More than….” is an odd conclusion under present circumstances.  Getting rid of the terrible danger hanging over our heads requires, unfortunately, the agreement of everyone.  One nation can hold up the entire process.  That Israel would be the one to do this is shocking indeed. It justifies all others if they, too, refuse, and we are back to square one after years and years of false starts.

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By gerard, May 30, 2010 at 9:15 am Link to this comment

ITW:  Trusting any nation or political entity with nukes is a grave risk indeed, all people being human and all politics being highly inflammable.  “More than….” is an odd conclusion under present circumstances.  Getting rid of the terrible danger hanging over our heads requires, unfortunately, the agreement of everyone.  One nation can hold up the entire process.  That Israel would be the one to do this is shocking indeed. It justifies all others if they, too, refuse, and we are back to square one after years and years of false starts.

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By Géza Éder, May 30, 2010 at 8:51 am Link to this comment

“Naturally, everybody wants Israel to give up its great equalizer, which has NEVER been even threatened to be used (yet many Moslems want Pakistan to nuke Israel). “

Stop with this stuff please, it is very unfair and demagogic. I’m pretty sure you can find “many” super radical idiots in any country, including Israel and in the US, but also in any “civilised” country in the world, who also want to destroy whatever they don’t like.  I’m pretty sure it’d be exactly as accurate to equate the US population with the neocons, the KKK or the tea party folks as equating Muslims with their own madmen.  If you base your image of a group of people on this thinking, you’re doing the same as people who hate Jews based on similarly bad logic.

Another piece of demagogy is the “never threatened anyone with nukes” part.  Thing is, they don’t explicitly threaten because that would include admitting to having nukes, which is impossible - and counterproductive, as everyone already knows they have them, which is pretty much enough of a threat.  Israel’s willingness to use force is demonstrated every few years anyway, so there’s not much need for explicit threats. 

“Still, if the Arab world wanted to send 10,000,000 soldiers at Israel all at once, it would be hard to repel them—without nukes.”

While “repelling them” with nukes would be completely impossible, unless you just want to destroy the world. You can deter an attack with having nukes, but actually using it for protecting your own territory (which is pretty small in Israel’s case, which increases the dangers a lot) is mostly out of the question in any rational system.  And seriously, you don’t need nuclear subs and ICBMs for defense against the Arab world, those obviously serve a more aggressive purpose.  We’re not talking about a few nukes for deterrence after all, we’re talking about between 150-300 warheads, nuclear submarines and so on. 

“Israel has never admitted to having nukes, yet few doubt it, and, since the US doesn’t deny it, it’s probably true. Frankly, I trust Israel with nukes far more than Pakistan, NK or Iran.”

I think you should trust them exactly as much as Pakistan, NK or Iran (or rather, for practical reasons, less than the last two, because of the huge disparities in capabilities).  The main problem is that they’re much stronger and have backing from the US, which means it’s much easier for them to use any kind of military force proactively…and tbh I trust the US far less than any of these countries, seeing how aggressive and powerful it is.  I mean, Israel does have a reason not to be completely friendly with its neighbours to say the least (even though it’s not purely the neighbours’ fault), but US appears to be acting like a madman who fears made-up stuff and can’t differentiate between a crime and a war and between real threats and bad dreams.

Anyway, there’s a very simple principle also: the general mood and outcome of any discussion will be much more easily influenced by the stronger party, which, in this case, is Israel (because of US backing).  Even if you don’t believe that it’s their moral obligation to behave in a more peaceful and accomodating fashion, it’d surely be more practical in the long run, seeing how it can’t keep depending on America forever.

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By PatrickHenry, May 30, 2010 at 7:28 am Link to this comment

Inherit,

“which has NEVER been even threatened to be used”

http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/20070107_israel_considers_nuking_iran/

Given Israels aversion to attack its neighbors over its own paranoia, I do not trust Israel.

The Israelis have threatened the Arabs to this day far more than the Arabs have threatened the Israelis.

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By omop, May 30, 2010 at 6:03 am Link to this comment

The script is the same and parallels the historic as well as the histrionic posture
of the “chosen few”.

  Rabbi Fischer vice president of the Zionist Organization of America tells his
readers and followers (in the US and in the promised land) “If we Jews are
anything, we are a people of history … Our history provides the strength to know
that we can be right and the whole world wrong.”

“We were and still are right, and the whole world was wrong.”

Its like that infamous song “Deutschland uber alles”

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, May 30, 2010 at 4:31 am Link to this comment

PatrickHenry, May 29 at 9:50 pm #

Israel denies ownership of nuclear weapons but has offered to sell them to apartheid S.A.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/23/israel-south-africa-nuclear-weapons

At least N.Korea, Pakistan and India are honest enought to admit they do have them.
*********************************************

Let me see….Apartheid ended in South Africa in, what? 1991?  India TESTED its first bomb in the 70’s as did Pakistan.  More recent testing about 10-12 years ago was less “news” than it was made out to be.

NK’s “bomb” is still not much of a bomb.

Israel has never tested a nuclear weapon, unlike the USA, USSR, UK, PRC, France, India, Pakistan and NK.  However, as Tom Clancy pointed out, it’s possible to overbuild it in so many ways that testing is unnecessary—and when you have the quality scientists Israel has, overbuilding was easily possible.

Naturally, everybody wants Israel to give up its great equalizer, which has NEVER been even threatened to be used (yet many Moslems want Pakistan to nuke Israel). Still, if the Arab world wanted to send 10,000,000 soldiers at Israel all at once, it would be hard to repel them—without nukes. Israel has never admitted to having nukes, yet few doubt it, and, since the US doesn’t deny it, it’s probably true.

Frankly, I trust Israel with nukes far more than Pakistan, NK or Iran.

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By leesmith, May 29, 2010 at 10:25 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The United States is the world’s greatest nation, the American people to live happy, comfortable life. They wear stylish clothes, the advanced car driving in the countryside to enjoy the sun, breathe fresh air, how pleasant their life, how wonderful, enviable. I wish I could be an American, wearing the
nike]http://www.nikeairmax90.org”]nike air max 90[/url]
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By ofersince72, May 29, 2010 at 7:05 pm Link to this comment

A rather AMBIGUOUS statement !!!!!!

Of course,  Hilary will say “see , I told you.”

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By rollzone, May 29, 2010 at 6:37 pm Link to this comment

hello. come on you weaklings, set your freaks free: and first strike Iran. show everyone you are able to control your own destiny. nuke them away. nuke anyone that doesn’t like it. nuke ‘em in the evening at sunset, and nuke ‘em again at sunrise. nuke ‘em after brunch. nuke ‘em until the sand glows at night. and go ahead and nuke yourselves, just to fully profit from the experience. its nukamonium. Nukistan. nuclear cleansing- am i clear? make no mistake about playing with your nukes. no flashing. no exposing fake warheads. no hiding behind dollar diplomacy. show ‘em, use ‘em if you got ‘em- it’s lonely here at the top. do not just whip ‘em out and shuttle them back away. push the damn button. launch. impeach Oboymamma.

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PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, May 29, 2010 at 5:50 pm Link to this comment

Israel denies ownership of nuclear weapons but has offered to sell them to apartheid S.A.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/23/israel-south-africa-nuclear-weapons

At least N.Korea, Pakistan and India are honest enought to admit they do have them.

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By gerard, May 29, 2010 at 4:44 pm Link to this comment

Too bad for simpletons!  The rest of the world will just have to get together and outlaw nuclear weapons proliferation,  and then advertize worldwide that Israel is the only nation that refused to sign up. Make them look as silly and dangerous as they really are.  Make them sorry.  Make them eat their words. Poor stubborn little old Israel with all its mean, backward, shortsighted fascistic policies.  Shame on them!
  In addition, liberal Jews worldwide need to get behind the struggling, active liberal minority of Jews in Israel to whom the Israel government largely denies a voice in national policy.

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