It’s quite funny to listen to people who think Howard Dean represents the democratic party base.  Republicans in Vermont used to run against him by saying, “Why not vote for a real republican.”  He used to go into Windsor County represented in the state senate by progressive democrat Cheryl Rivers and ask people not to vote for her, saying that he could work better with the republican running against her.  Fifteen years ago then congressman Bernie Sanders had worked out with state legislators a state wide single payer health care plan which had very wide-spread support until Dean came out strongly against it persuading enough democrats in the legislature to oppose it so that it failed to pass.  A few years later he took his “health care candidate for president” show on the road.

I do get tired of being told that having any questions about Islams good intentions makes you a bad person. I also get tired of being told that there is no proof that there are valid reasons to look on Islam with doubt as to their good intentions.

Howard Dean hasn’t said to not build mosque and Islamic institutions, but in this particular case it would be helpful if it were built somewhere else in the area. So what is wrong with that?

Historically the periods of inclusion in Islamic controled countries were the work of pragmatic Islamic leaders who knew they didn’t have the religous majority to force Islam down the throats of their captive citizens. This inclusiveness had many good values, but it was not democratic government and the citizens only had what tolerance those at the head wished to give. As time passed and the sons of the leaders were endoctrinated by the Mullahs the atitude of tolerance began to lose ground. This happened everywhere in Islamic society, until the alternate religious were marginalized. And, yes, The Catholic and Orthodox churches did the same thing.

Even today when the Catholic church felt forced to apologize for centuries of murder, the apology was amusingly insencere. “it was done by the secular government, it wasn’t as bad as our detractors said it was” but we apologize anyway. One should keep in mind that secular government was dominated by the church, just as Islamic governments are dominated by the Mosque. Human rights get short attention in these environments, if they are Christian or Islamic or any other Abrahamic Relgion or cult.

Lastly ask yourself what happened to all the Buddist in Pakastan, Afghanistan and even India with the advent of Islam? Frankly I should like very tight oversight on the religious, they are arrogant and always willing to take unfair advantage, we have only recently toilet trained Christianity and even now there is another movement from Christian right to take over the government and exclude those they don’t like.

When the history of this era is written the most shocking thing will be the
complicity of a lot of people who were obviously educated enough to have known
better, including most of academia. America will not vote its way out of this mess.
The Democrats are just playing a slightly different roll in the farce. Just because a
majority of Americans think something does not make it so, and pandering to their
ignorance does not make a man a leader.

“Dean refers to the YMCA-style project as a mosque”

It is a mosque. And most mosques in America aren’t solely prayer places they are also community centers.

“Again, the notion that this is the “Ground Zero Mosque” has been pushed by conservative demagogues but it’s not true.”

The project leaders have specifically identified 9/11 as a location/reason why they choose their specific project.

“We have to understand that it is a real affront to people who lost their lives, including Muslims.”

Yeah, Neda’s mother doesn’t matter, nor Arabians, or another Arab.

This isn’t about islamophobia, it’s about common sense, and it’s not like it hasn’t had precedent.

This is the Repubican Party war on jobs and an attack on the Constitution. The community center through private enterprise will provide construction jobs and employment to the community. The economic multiplier effect will provide $millions to the community. For instance, suppose the project costs $100 million just for construction. This multiplies out to $400 million after the money spent on materials and labor is calculated,through private enterprise. The Repubican’s are opposed to any and all job creation because the wealthy make a lot of money buying distressed properties. The Repubicans want deflation for that sole purpose to enrich their wealthy base.

There was a Greek Orthodox Christian church destroyed
on 9-11 that the NYC rat politicians and the scum Port
Authority have stalled and have no desire to rebuild
the church that was built in 1922. But we fast track a
friggin Mosque to be built….Makes me sick!! Welcome
to the united states of ISLAM, its comming sooner than
you know it.

Howard Dean’s a schmuck. What do you expect?