Sucking on Big Corp has been a career for both parties.
That is the problem - not the solution.

RayLan,

Just to explain myself, I meant that there are a number of caring well meaning people on the bottom of the health care ladder who really do care. The ones I was critical of were the ones who have become numb in the maze of files and numbers and room assignments and who just want to go home. I’ve run into both, but we don’t expect that level of apathy in the health care industry.

But my harshest criticism is for the legislators, lobbyists, and health insurance companies who have turned the health of the American citizenry into their own personal cash cow. Couple that legislative arrogance with the same relationships between Big Agra and Big Pharma, and you can see why no one in Washington is paying any attention to why our food supply is no longer supplying the nutrients necessary to keep the population healthy.

Now if you really want to get conspiratorial, you can look into Fritz ter Meer’s involvement in the 1962 engineering of the current version of Codex Alimentarius. Ter Meer was one of I.G. Farben’s worst War Crimes perpetrators, having performed horrendous chemical experiments with tens of thousands of people with a callous disregard that boggles the mind. At one point during the Nuremberg Trials, it had been noted that the one thing the Nazis had forgotten to do was to more quickly control the food supply. Well, now we all have our basket full of fruitcake legislators signing us up for the very system that ter Meer had engineered. They are either totally complicit in this tyranny or totally inept at politics. Which is it?

Either way, the legislature is doing a shitty job and yet it is still collecting the money for it. They’re all fired.

WASHINGTON – The American Medical Association (AMA) on Monday announced its support for passage of the amended Senate health system reform bill (H.R. 3590). Passage of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act by the Senate will bring our nation close to the finish line on health system reform.

“All Americans deserve affordable, high-quality health coverage so they can get the medical care they need – and this bill advances many of our priority issues for achieving the vision of a health system that works for patients and physicians,” said AMA President-elect Cecil B. Wilson, M.D.
http://www.physiciansnews.com/2009/12/22/ama-announces-support-for-passage-of-senate-health-bill/

Overall the bill gained approval by the AMA, with some reservations of course, appealing for certain refinements. BTW this doesn’t mean I approve. It just makes perfect sense that Medical Professionals who for the most part are in bed with corporate interests, would enjoy its benefits.

GYRM
“Parts of those sections are contrary to the point “
Like?

RayLan, - “So much for the scare that Medical professionals are harmed by the bill.”

-

You may want to revisit what’s in the AMA’s 2009 Open Letter to the Senate.  You should read it in it’s entirety. - I’m not certain you fully understand much of what’s in the brief sections you display.  Parts of those sections are contrary to the point I think you’re trying to make.

The AMA has also revised it’s position since the final bill was passed.

Maani,

If you could cite your source of polling data I would be glad to research it.

You have already seen the ABC News/Washington Post poll of this this week showing that 62% see the legislation as increasing the deficit, 54% think it’ll hurt the economy, and 46% think the law will cost jobs.

According to Gallup’s Jan. 18 2011 poll data, 57% of likely American voters want the health-care legislation either “completely” or “significantly” repealed. - Conversely, 24% want the health-care legislation expanded.  Only 13% want the legislation kept as is.

When asked to give the repeal legislation an Up or Down vote, just as was offered by republicans in the U.S. House, likely voters responded 46% to 39% to repeal democratic sponsored health-care reforms.

75% Think Health Care Law May Cost More Than Estimated.

-

“The latest Rasmussen Reports national survey shows that 55% of Likely Voters favor repeal of the health care law, while 40% oppose repeal. Just 40% Strongly Favor repeal, matching the lowest level found since the health care bill became law. Thirty percent (30%) Strongly Oppose repeal.”

Every poll I have seen indicates very clearly what most Americans are concerned about when it comes to the issue of health-care.  Over 70% say it’s a matter of cost.  Less than 15% claim to desire an overhaul of the health-care system as a whole. - This legislation has never enjoyed the support of the majority of Americans.

-

Just as a matter of interest.  Medicare Part B has an unfunded liability of $68 Trillion.

An excerpt of an AMA letter

AMA Letter
Dec. 1, 2009

The Honorable Harry Reid
Majority Leader
United States Senate
522 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510

Dear Senator Reid:

The American Medical Association (AMA) remains committed to achieving enactment of comprehensive health system reform legislation that improves access to affordable, high-quality care and reduces unnecessary costs. We do not believe that maintaining the status quo is an acceptable option for physicians or the patients we serve.

Overview of Provisions that AMA Supports

H.R. 3590, the “Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act,” includes a number of provisions that are consistent with the AMA’s reform priorities. In general, we support the provisions in the bill that: reform the health insurance market to provide more choice and access to affordable coverage for individuals and small businesses, including provisions relating to guaranteed issue, guaranteed renewability, modified community rating, pre-existing condition limitations, nondiscrimination based on health status, adequacy of provider networks, and transparency. We also support: tax credits that are inversely related to income, refundable, and payable in advance to low-income individuals who need financial assistance to purchase private health insurance; establishing health insurance exchanges that offer more affordable choices; reducing overpayments to Medicare Advantage plans; enhancing Medicaid coverage as a safety net; coverage for prevention and wellness initiatives without co-payments or deductibles; and the creation of an independent comparative effectiveness research entity that will develop information to enhance patient-physician decision making about treatment options.

Improved Provisions

The AMA also appreciates that several physician-related provisions in the bill represent improvements over earlier proposals, including the elimination of a five percent Medicare payment cut for “outlier” physicians, changes to the Medicare quality reporting provisions, and reductions in proposed Medicare enrollment fees. Nonetheless, we continue to have serious concerns about certain provisions in the bill, and we look forward to working with you and your Senate colleagues to secure additional changes to promote stable and sound health system reforms.

So much for the scare that Medical professionals are harmed by the bill.

‘House Huffs, Puffs, Blows Health Care Down’
And therefore, “House Republicans, joined by three Democrats” are blowjobs?

Lafayette:

“Anyone remember this from Spiro Agnew, Nixon’s VP?: The ‘nattering nabobs of negativism,’ which he employed as regards Congressional Democrats.”

Not quite.  Agnew aimed that particular epithet at the press, not Congressional Democrats.  He also called the press “an effete corps of impudent snobs,” and “hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history.”

GRYM:

Actually, your poll numbers are already old.  In fact, by the time the vote was taken, 52% of Americans felt that the health care bill should be left alone.  As well, in the past month, the GOPs favorable poll numbers re not just health care but handling economic matters dropped almost 10 points.  Indeed, as the provisions of the health care bill kick in, more Americans are realizing that it works (for them), and do not want it messed with.

On a side note, one of the provisions that is most-liked is the one that allows children to remain on their parents’ health plans until age 26.  I will let Rep. Jim McDermott speak to the relationship of this to the Tucson massacre:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/ns/msnbc_tv-rachel_maddow_show/#41164508

(Fast-forward to 8:45 into the video if you don’t want to hear how the Dems are actually HAPPY about the vote, and why…)

Peace.

“Not everyone in the healthcare industry is evil “
Apparently everyone in Washington is.

BR
“are genuinely concerned with the long term viability of any health care “system”, and they know this one was stupid and political.”
I don’t get it - if it’s not a ‘paycheck’ concern, what is the problem exactly? Are you trying to say that the Bill forces them to give sub-standard service - why? and how?

Layfayette, one more item for the national agenda:

—It’s time to break up the big banks.
Too big to fail is Too big to begin with.
Not to punish them, but the increase competiton.

Go Right Young Man, January 20 at 1:48 pm Link to this comment

Repealing recently passed health-care legislation is a winning stratagem for republicans in the coming 2012 elections.  Republican candidates made opposition to this particular piece of legislation a major issue before taking control of the House and lessening the majority in the Senate in the last election.

Republicans made distorting the nature of the legislation into a winning stratagem. Controlling the media, suppressing the truth about the law is what has swayed public opinion However flawed it is it is still a bit of an improvement over our existing nightmare health care and the lies of the GOP notwithstanding it does save money, ends some of the abuses of the Insurance Industry and covers more people.

An ABC News/Washington Post poll this week showed that 62% see the legislation as increasing the deficit, 54% think it’ll hurt the economy, and 46% think the law will cost jobs.

True enough, but, as more of the truth about this law becomes public knowledge those numbers will change. That is the trouble with telling falsehoods, sooner or later truth will out.

The longer this issue is around, the worse it’s likely to be for Democrats. This year’s ObamaCare-mandated Medicare cuts are geometrically larger than last year’s. Dissatisfaction among health-care providers will continue rising as the new health-care law adversely affects their profession. The concerns of business leaders will become more pronounced as the law’s mandates limit their choices while increasing their costs. And consumer discontent will grow as promised declines in insurance premiums and health-care costs don’t materialize.

Your so-called “Obama Care” is a GOP piece of crap, bearing no relationship to the truth of anything. I would be careful what you wish for, as the facts materialize the public will turn on you guys…Certainly Medicare cuts are serious, but the discussion was about the new Law was it not?

Perhaps if your boy Georgie hadnt wrecked our economy and lied us into an interminable and ghastly expensive war Medicare cuts would not be necessary…..

RayLan,
““The only people who liked it were those in the health insurance industry. “
That would include the health care professionals.”

No, it wouldn’t. There are, admittedly, many card carrying union socialist thinking Obama supporting nurses and technicians who only see their paycheck as a reason for working. They dress in their togs, pin on their badges, and trudge off to work, many of them oblivious to the number of iatrogenically induced deaths. Many others, on the other hand, are very much attuned to their patients and are genuinely concerned with the long term viability of any health care “system”, and they know this one was stupid and political.

Not everyone in the healthcare industry is evil and hovering outside your window while you sleep.

BR549,
“The only people who liked it were those in the health insurance industry “
That would include the health care professionals.
The premium will be paid by somebody - if not entirely by the individual consumer, by a subsidy of that consumer.
So much depends on how the health care professionals are organized - as a group, partnership etc..
Kaiser has its own staff and hospitals…
The fees are determined by that health care entity - not the insurance companies. The bill does put some restraints on fees, but mostly it is supposed to make the expense to the patient more equitable - that is they will not be rountinely denied coverage.

GYRM
“While you appear mired in class-warfare”
I already know the stock answer for protecting the corporate interests - duh - class warfare - what self-serving rubbish. I’m not mired in anything but class fairness. Certainly protecting the middle class from being gradually but constantly underminded by Right Wing policies lip-locked on the Oligarchy’s anal cavity.

Nobody’s asked the question: Why is it legitimate to put aside the nation’s business and use the precious House time to do NOTHING but position for another election?  There isn’t even the veneer of doing the People’s Business, because this isn’t REAL legislation.

The GOP in the House knows that this is going nowhere, but they are doing it anyway, wasting time that could be put to VIABLE legislation, solely to position themselves for 2012.

Talk about waste fraud and abuse.

Manni: The GOP has no health care plan.As for America being the richest nation and all the other B.S. they keep feeding the sheeple,how come we have so many people uninsured in this country?It is known that some of the elected people have been trying for decades to get coverage for all Americans,but they run into the same GOP excuse of needing to study it more and they have had well over 60 years+ of studying already.If other countries can do this for their people,why can"t America?

That’s right.The MIC comes first,then all those over inflated incomes for the “for profit” insurance companies and then the mega corps and their billions in profits every year.

If America had eliminated the “for profit” insurance companies as the rest of the worlds other countries have done,perhaps people could afford to but into medical insurance programs.And for those who complain that Americans should not be forced to pay for medical insurance and rather it should be a choice,not realizing that many cannot afford it,then how come we have to have car insurance to drive a car and ever notice that they really do not insure “just the car”,these crooked insurance companies want to know all about everyone else who might drive the car and add excessive and often illegal fees into the premium payments for people who never drive that car or have anything to do with it-the last fact from personal experience.Also when you purchase a house,you have to insure it until the house is paid off.You have no choice,you have to pay.

Since the Repugs want to do another 2 more years of gridlock and non stop campaigning rather than do the work they were selected to do,perhaps there should be mandatory rules somewhere that make these same idiots who have held up everything the past 2 years with their ignorance and poor loser attitudes,to have to pay all the expenses with their repeal of the health care bill out of their wages and also make them pay for all the other things they have deliberately held up just by saying no.

The taxpayers should not have to foot the cost of continual gridlock and these politicians should have been fired long ago for lack of progress on anything and in the real business world, would fire someone for what they call “not being a team player.” Enough of them wasting our tax dollars,once they have to start paying for this out of their own pockets,they would stop all this B.S. and also since they are going over the same thing of the past 2 years,they should not be allowed to collect any wages.They were already paid for this same gridlock already.And since they hate socialized medicine so much,lets take away all of their health coverage,they can afford to buy their own,they have enough money or their lobbyists can get it for them wholesale.

And Michelle Bachmann,new head of the Lack of Intelligence Department,give up your corporate welfare on that farm which you get government monies for that you do not farm anything on along with your socialized medicine you hate so much.Put your own money where your mouth is at.

Lafayette, mon ami!
We only have this year for consiliaton.
2012 is a presidential election year and you know what that means consensus-wise.
Gridlock is for kids (c’est quelle domage), and gets us nowhere.
Gotta at least try.

As for an agenda, I’d recommend, in order:
—eliminating payroll taxes and replacing them with a non-regressive 3% national sales tax
—raising the top income tax rate to 39.6%, then making all the Bush-now-Obama cuts (including the 5M/35% estate tax formula) permanent.
—line-item improvement of the 2700 page health care bill

what say you?

GRYM,
The bill had the doctors and staff at the clinic I visit in a tizzy. They all hoped the legislation would fail. The only people who liked it were those in the health insurance industry and, of course, their back pocket politicians who took so much pride in fleecing the people. I see Pelosi’s face, just glimmering with satisfaction over the Democrats’ version of “Mission Accomplished,” and it makes me want to puke.

What does it say about a group that claims to represent us when they can’t even come up with a bill that represents us on a topic so important?

I just started reading the book by Thomas Woods, “Nullification, How to Resist Federal Tyranny in the 21st Century,” and loved the way he framed the issue about the Feds’ continual use of the Supremacy Clause. He states, “The supremacy clause says the Constitution and laws in pursuance thereof shall be the supreme law of the land. In other words, the Constitution and constitutional laws shall be the supreme laws of the land. That’s precisely the issue; a nullifying state holds that the law in question is unconstitutional and not “in pursuance thereof.”

He’s not quoting the Constitution here verbatim, but the point is that the Constitution, as stated, becomes the law of the land and that Constitution gave only restricted power to the federal government. All other laws, therefore, in the “in pursuance thereof” portion, must therefore follow the meaning and intention of the Constitution, which again, continues to give the ultimate power to the states, NOT the federal government, again because the powers of the federal government were to be restricted.

Our Congress, not to be outdone, continues to abuse the now famous “Necessary and Proper Clause” to justify its own agenda, thereby feeling empowered to negate any state’s legal refusal to comply. Alexander Hamilton, in true Federalist fashion, continued to assure others that the clause would not give the Congress unlimited power; Patrick Henry argued that it would inevitably menace individual liberty. And just look where we are now.

RayLan,

While you appear mired in class-warfare and personal remuneration, I was thinking more on the administrative nightmares the new law mandates. along with the health-care provider’s inability to make medical decisions directly with health-care consumers i.e., the ill.

Perhaps you also believe that higher costs to doctors will be born on themselves and not passed onto the consumer?  Perhaps you have not sufficiently considered the matter.

“Dissatisfaction among health-care providers will continue rising as the new health-care law adversely affects their profession”
Stop—your breaking my heart. Those poor health care providers. They’ll have to cut their six figure salaries.

Repealing recently passed health-care legislation is a winning stratagem for republicans in the coming 2012 elections.  Republican candidates made opposition to this particular piece of legislation a major issue before taking control of the House and lessening the majority in the Senate in the last election.

An ABC News/Washington Post poll this week showed that 62% see the legislation as increasing the deficit, 54% think it’ll hurt the economy, and 46% think the law will cost jobs.

The longer this issue is around, the worse it’s likely to be for Democrats. This year’s ObamaCare-mandated Medicare cuts are geometrically larger than last year’s. Dissatisfaction among health-care providers will continue rising as the new health-care law adversely affects their profession. The concerns of business leaders will become more pronounced as the law’s mandates limit their choices while increasing their costs. And consumer discontent will grow as promised declines in insurance premiums and health-care costs don’t materialize.

-

Here is the crux of the matter.  In 2007-08 73% of Americans said that the cost of health-care was the major concern.  Only 18% of the voting public required an overhaul of the health-care system.

There were several positive aspects of the Health Care Bill, one of them being the committed percentage toward non-administrative expenses, but the whole way the Democrat went about this was so sneaky; not unlike what the previous administrations had done back to and including Reagan.

We DO need healthcare reform but our corrupt politicians are always trying to repackage the same theft program in some way that the public isn’t aware it is getting fleeced.

Note to Congress:  You idiots have fleeced this country so much already and sold it down the river to placate your corporate sponsors. When there’s only one penny left in the piggy bank, it becomes more apparent who the last person is who is trying to steal it. Hope you bastards are proud of yourselves.

The only bad thing about the bill is that it isn’t reform - it is in many ways a corporate blow job -
Reform means socialized medicine - while the Right wing hounds howl I’ll repeat - socialized medicine.
Most of the industrialized world has it - like gays openly serving - it’s the rabid capitalism which is destroying us that keeps the nation from this essential reform.
Socialism, socialism socialism - yep - deal with it Right wing wackos.

Everyone paying attention knows that each and every single Democrat that supports this obscene giveaway to the Insurance Industry (CEO: $15M/YR or more)via mandated purchases with penalties assessed by the IRS (no less) would support the exact same bill if proposed by the (R)epublicans.

Wouldn’t they.

Sure they would.

If McCain had won, and his administration passed a law (with 40% overall approval) that required each and every citizen to purchase, with no public option, a policy from a for profit insurance company they would enthusiastically support it, because it would be the best thing for the country, politics be damned.

Yup. Sure you would.

If the citizens are this stupid they deserve the fleecing they get.

This (D)emocrat (R)epublican thing is absurd and if the people getting raped don’t even see it by now there is no hope.

The GOP indulges in empty rhetoric and an meaningless vote. Knowing that this bill will never see the Senate floor, much less pass the President’s desk sans veto, it is obviously a stage show to appease their radical supporters and nothing more.

If the Democrats were competent, which they are not, they would launch a campaign of education explaining all that is good about the Health Care Reform Law, explaining how it will save money and provide better care. But they won’t of course.

The Law is certainly not a thing of beauty, far from it. It is rather a guarantee of profit for Big Pharma and the Insurance Industry and still leaves much to be desired in gaining the American people decent care. What it is, however,is a small and incremental step towards better health care. If coupled with enforcement it will help somewhat.

Our nations system of government has always been a place where compromise is a way of life, where change is always incremental in nature and such compromise remains today the way towards progress. But we are in the midst of a ,hopefully cyclical, climate of extremism on the right, deafening silence on the left and complicity and incompetence from the Democrats. Hopefully this cycle can be broken, perhaps by the rise of third party politics, by the presence of elected legislators not fully in the thrall of big business cash.

OS: ... and perhaps Congress (both houses) can go forward in the spirit of compromise and consensus-building and work around the edges

After all the grief the Nitwit Replicants gave us over the past two years?

No, they don’t deserve it. And neither do we ... after all, who put the Replicants back into Congress? We did.

Rather, let them simmer in their own juice.

NEW BUSINESS

Now that the House has had it well-predicted Circle Jerk, perhaps we can leave the mental masturbation behind and get on to New Business?

What New Business? That’s just it. There is none.

There is not one idea out there to fix the Mess we are in. Not one. Not even on the horizon. All that is left are the palliative measures that BO & Co were able to get through a recalcitrant Congress. And they are not nearly enough, given the urgency.

So, it’s back to Circle Jerking ... and dithering.

POST SCRIPTUM

Anyone remember this from Spiro Agnew, Nixon’s VP?: The “Nattering nabobs of negativism”, which he employed as regards Congressional Democrats.

Pardon my French:

Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose

Maani, now that the symbolic House vote has taken place, Repubs can show their Tea Party supporters they at least tried.

..and perhaps Congress (both houses) can go forward in the spirit of compromise and consensus-building and work around the edges—“repealing (selected) PROVISIONS of the bill - and “keeping the good”,” just as you wrote.

Call me a PolyAnna, but that’s my hope & I’ll wager at least SOME progress will be made.

Let’s be really honest here.  There are both good things and bad things about Obama’s health care bill.  Given this, what is wrong with this vote is that the GOP is simply showing how extremist it is: i.e., rather than simply repealing PROVISIONS of the bill - and “keeping the good” - they want to deprive people of the legitimate benefits of the bill.  As an aside, it is also amazingly hypocritical, since THEIR health care plans would not be affected by the bill.

HA!  Funny and true, re the tan. 
The House vote was an exercise in creating awareness. 
We still need to fix health care.