Oh, Hetero you are such a damnable liar!

If I put those facts into a pie and pushed it into your face you would still give us all your weak and tired little stupidities that it really wasn’t a pie and anyway it missed your face.

A shame your ideology makes you appear so foolish, as it did when you posted here as GRYM, which, if you will recall led to fewer responses to your increasingly irrelevant comments and your eventual departure.

Oh history will repeat itself I trust.

I don’t know about world court but there are plenty of other sources.

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/10304975-taliban-offered-bin-laden-trial-before-911

or

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/oct/14/afghanistan.terrorism5

or

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=55476

or any of the other 9,340,000 other posts on the matter.  They all state pretty much the same thing. 

spammatic is just trying to deflect the fact that Bush and Co. didn’t have any evidence on OBL any thereby had no legitimate claim to try him for 9/11.

Foreign countries want US officials tried all the time and they have proof, ask Henry Kissinger.

Well Hettie the Mad Hatter sure poisoned this thread into putrefaction.

Anybody know of a site where one can comment and be spared the slings and marbles of those who have lost theirs?

thanks, ardee, but there’s nothing in there to support your claim that they offered
to give bin Laden up and turn him over to the World Court…..it’s the same story,
again and again…..

maybe, maybe this, maybe that, with these conditions, sorta, we’ll think about
it….........nothing but a pocket full of mumbles…

they never stood up before the world and ACTUALLY sent him anywhere…and even
said that they would.

Oh, Hetero you are such a damnable liar!

http://tinyurl.com/3ddtnd

moonie—i’ve not only scrubbed toilets, but have scrubbed bed pans and
sigmoidoscopes…...

toilets are much nicer.

——don’t have to prove that he didn’t do it, loca, as there’s not a singly bit of
evidence that he did.

one of the things that they taught me is that the defense doesn’t have to do a
thing until the prosecution presents some evidence.

maybe ‘cause you live in a country with a different system of law you’re not
familiar with common law practices.

Hettie:  Go out and look for work—any work, even scrubbing toilets at Taco Bell, so you can see how non-whites have it good in Gringolandia.

And leave off hogging every thread on this site!

Prove he didn’t do it, Hettie.

Motive

Means

Opportunity

and he profited very handsomely from the aftermath.

Logic, apparently, has no place in your patriotic racist brain (sic).

vec——- would you be so kind as to link to the public offer to turn bin Laden over
to the World Court.

Never has anyone shown a public offer to turn bin Laden over to ANY western and
non-Islamic authority…...

moonie—- my hatred for Cheney is unabated and no, you loca, he did not “do
9/11”.

vector: 

There are two very overwhelming reasons why the Bush Gang didn’t accept any offer to put Bin Laden on trial:

1.  Putting him on trial would mean getting to the bottom of the 9/11 caper—which Bin Laden had nothing to do with and which the Bush Gang DID.

2.  Putting him on trial instead of invading Afghanistan to take control of the heroin trade and maybe put a petroleum pipeline through it and then following that up with the invasion of Iraq for its petroleum would have mean trillions in dollars of war profiteering down the drain.

These two points are so obvious that anyone with an IQ in double digits can understand them.  Which means that either Hettie has an IQ even lower than GW Bush’s or he has chosen deliberately to keep smearing excremental lies on this site for his own financial gain, pittance though it would be.

Hettie:

Since you are still all het up about 9/11, why didn’t you go after Dick Cheney as well as the heads of the CIA and Mossad?

After all, they DID 9/11.

Going after non-whites for a crime that your own government planned and executed sure as hell looks like racism to me.

Hettie:

Documentation is not the same as proopaganda pieces by the invaders who used Al Qaeda as a pretext to invade.

According to you, Colin Powell showing photos of ice cream trucks in Bagdhad and claiming that they were mobile chemical weapons labs is documentation of the existence of WMDs—which we all know is completely false.

Pull the other one, bogus shillboy.

For the record; the Taliban did offer to turn Osama bin Laden over to the World Court in the Hague. Bush refused because like Obama he wanted to put a bullet in his head without a trial.

What is going on now is nothing but “mob rule” repackaged as the never ending “war on terror”.

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that
all men are created equal, that they are endowed by
their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that
among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of
happiness. “

Notice the above speaks to humanity as a whole, not just US citizens. Believe it or not, the people you call your enemy are still “men” (human beings). The very thing you present to make your point disproves your assertion.

The constitution was not written to save your sorry ass from the bad people of the world, it was to protect them from the likes of you!

vec——- no, the Geneva Accords do not over ride the
US gov’t's duty to safeguard the lives of US
citizens…...and you really should understand that. 

there’s not a nation on Earth that doesn’t put the
lives of its people ahead of the lives of
others…...

it’s a very basic fact of life.

just in case, you missed it,

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that
all men are created equal, that they are endowed by
their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that
among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of
happiness. That to secure these rights, governments
are instituted among men, deriving their just powers
from the consent of the governed. That whenever any
form of government becomes destructive to these ends,
it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish
it, and to institute new government, laying its
foundation on such principles and organizing its
powers in such form, as to them shall seem most
likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Troy—- thanks for the link and the story about the
offer…...

would be nice if there was any support for the guy’s
that the Taliban agreed to let us come in and kill
bin Laden…....

you think that at some point somebody else would
corroborate it…..maybe now that bin Laden is dead
someone from the Taliban might say “yeah, that’s
right”

but obviously no one from the Taliban say ever done
that and there’s obviously not gonna be any kind of
recording or documentation of such an offer…

thanks though, and if you have any proof I would be
grateful.

The Law works best when it protects the rights of the “unpopular”. Blacks in the South, Jews in Germany, Native Americans in the “wild, wild west; and yes, young Muslim men accused of being terrorist!

Is Terrorist the new N*gger?

Thanks Troy, it is one of dozens of articles which support the fact that OBL was given up for trial immediately after 9/11.  America was negligent for not following through with the protocols necessary for putting him on trial.

The race to hang the guy before any trial and presentation of factual evidence subject to scrutiny is an insult to the majority of Americans.

The sad thing is that callous sociopaths like heterochromatic seem to be the norm.

“what it implies is that it is the purpose of the American govt to prevent attacks
that kill Americans and it’s an obligation of the govt to place a far, far higher
value on American lives.”

People like heterochromatic don’t seem to have the tools to understand what a civil society and the rule of law truly mean.

Allow me to correct you; the primary purpose of the American Government is to uphold the Constitution of the these United States and the rule of law!

“it’s an obligation of the govt to place a far, far higher
value on American lives.”

No, the government does not decide what human life holds more value than another; the government follows the law; both domesticate and international!!!  Remember the Geneva Conventions?

Here is the story concerning Osama Bin Laden and the failure of the Bush administration to accept the offer from the Taliban to hand him over to Saudi Arabi
a BEFORE 9/11.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2004/11/01/how-bush-was-offered-bin-laden-and-blew-it/

Back to the future—one of those statements from Holder that you have to remember:  “The Fifth Amendment provides that no one can be “deprived of life” without due process of law.  But that due process, Holder said, doesn’t necessarily come from a court.”
  Then where does it necessarily come from?  Sounds like the Wonderland craziness:  “It means what I want it to mean”—or Mr. Obama, or whoever occupies the Oval Office at the time. That’s pretty far from the Fifth Amendment, don’t you think? When the law becomes whatever someone says it is, we are down the tubes.

ardee——never did they set up conditions under
which they would give up bin Laden so that we could
have him and put him on trial…...

please, if you can, demonstrate where and when they
ever did any more than agree to review all the
evidence that they wanted us to send to them so that
they could read it and get back to us.

please…. save me from my folly….show me where
they said…..“you can come next Tuesday and take bin
Laden back to the USA.”

that’s your bullshit, Troy…...

..and yours, hetero,is following the Bush/Cheney line of illogic. When a nations government offers to negotiate and you do not do so then the fault is not theirs. You can spin it any way your little neocon heart desires but those are the facts.
The Taliban set conditions under which they would give up binLaden and we (your buddy Georgie) refused to speak to them. I guess he, like you, was thinking about all those billions in war profiteering that wouldnt have happened had we pursued a peaceful settlement.

yeah, moonie….because I thought it was a good idea to go after alqaeda after
9/11….. that’s sure proof that I’m a racist.

chiquita, the racism is in your heart and head.

Troy——- “negotiations”  do not an offer make…. the Taliban had two years
BEFORE 9/11 when they were asked, through the UN, to turn him over ..........

they always refused…. after 9/11 when it was clear that we were coming, they we
willing to talk about what they might do if we did stuff first…....they would have
been happy to talk about stuff untill bin Laden died of old age….....

that’s your bullshit, Troy…...

moonie—- here’s a little bit

  “Under Taliban protection, Al Qaida established a number of training camps in
Afghanistan, however, most were destroyed in the international military action
that followed 9/11. Individuals who passed through Al Qaida’s camps have
been involved in a variety of subsequent terrorist attacks in Europe and
elsewhere. Although a significant number of Al Qaida’s “graduates” have been
killed or arrested in the worldwide campaign against terrorism, many trained
terrorists remain at large and continue to pose a serious threat. They include a
number of UK citizens and foreign citizens resident in the UK.”

https://www.mi5.gov.uk/output/terrorist-training.html
———-

“Some 70,000 people received weapons training and religious instruction in al-
Qaeda camps, German police say.
The claim came at the retrial of Mounir al-Motassadek, a Moroccan man
accused of involvement in the 9/11 attacks, which were partly planned in
Germany.

A German police officer told the court recruits at the camps were taught they
had a duty to kill US citizens.

Mr Motassadek says he received training in Afghanistan and knew some of the
9/11 hijackers - but not of their plot.”

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4146969.stm

————

@hetero:

Clearly, you are the one full of shit and want to justify the unnecessary war in Afghanistan. The Taliban was in negotiation with the Bush administration to handover Bin Laden to a “third party” when Bush [I suppose really it was Cheney and Rumsfeld since Bush II was not only a puppet but an idiot to]pulled the plug on negotiations.

The MIC had decided that WAR and only WAR was in order and they wanted no part of Bin Laden since it would haver required a trial and evidence of the culpability of the MIC in 9/11 would have been forthcoming.

To reiterate, YOU are full of shit and it seems obvious to all who post here that it is an undeniable fact.

Hettie:  Give it a rest, man.

Your infantile patriotic pimping makes me want to throw up my lunch—and I haven’t even made it yet!

Shillboy, you are a shameless racist.

Troy Davis—-“Everyone seems to conveniently forget that America did NOT have
to go to war in Afghanistan [The Taliban offered to hand over Bin Laden but Bush
II, the war criminal] refused.”—-

no matter how many people repeat that shit, it’s still untrue…..they NEVER said
that they would turn bin Laden over to us….....

and you can’t show that they ever did…...just a bunch of noise about how we
should forward all our evidence to them and they would think it over.

vec—-“I have notice you seem to repeat the phrase “Killed more Americans” a
lot? It seems to imply that a dead American is some how more tragic than any
other dead human being somewhere else in the world?”——

what it implies is that it is the purpose of the American govt to prevent attacks
that kill Americans and it’s an obligation of the govt to place a far, far higher
value on American lives.

personally, my philosophy is to assume all lives are of equal value sans any
information about the person…...

I obviously placed no value on the life of al Awlaki because his words and deeds
placed him outside of human decency. while I believe that it was not at all a bad
thing that he was killed and that it was legal and moral to kill him, I have
reservations as to the wisdom of it…....for its effect upon the rest of us.

Let’s see documentation of those Al Qaeda training camps, Hettie the Holehead.

The CIA operated those training camps in Afghanistan.  Al Qaeda members participated in that training.  Some say it was just a coverup for the running of heroin.

But hey, I don’t see the two undercover activities as being mutually exclusive.

Someday, if you are not locked away in a rubber room for good, maybe you will grow up and have two digits to rub together to make an IQ.

Then again, maybe you won’t.

Hettie hettie hettie:  Get thy ass to a nuthouse—or a nunnery—what little grey matter you had leaked out some time ago.

Afghanistan, by your schizo logic was fair game because WHY?  Bin Laden wasn’t there—he was on a dialysis machine in Dubai.  And he didn’t do 9/11 anyway.

The US government—even before it WAS the US government has done nothing but wage war against non-whites on the planet for their land and their resources—and sometimes just for the hell of it. 

Anything else you might claim is unadulterated patriotic pimping.

Hettie:  Let’s see YOUR employment contract with the gringo government first.

Then we’ll talk.

Maybe.

@prisner:

If you read the fifth amendment to the US Constitution it allegedly guarantees “due process” and this is a quote:

“except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger”

Clearly, since America is now engaged in the endless, perennial, on going “war on terror” the fifth amendment no longer applies.

The US Constitution has been effectively “shredded” leaving us to the tender mercies of the Military Industrial Complex [MIC] and the fascist military police state it represents.

The US Patriot Act effectively usurped and replaced the US Constitution after 9/11, therefore all of this talk of freedom and rights under the auspices of the US Constitution is just so much blather from those too stupid or too frightened to acknowledge that the Great Experiment in Democracy is over; dead, eradicated; defunct; demolished; destroyed; nothing more than a superficial ghost of its former self and to continue to rely upon “rights” that no longer existed is pathetically naive and counterproductive.

Far better to embrace the new fascist state and work within the confines of it when you can and suffer the consequences of it when you cannot.

The truth hurts and in this instance the truth most definitely will NOT set you free.

Everyone seems to conveniently forget that America did NOT have to go to war in Afghanistan [The Taliban offered to hand over Bin Laden but Bush II, the war criminal] refused.

We most certainly did not have to go to war in Iraq. A clearly illegal war and the so-callled “war on terror” is deliberately nebulous and nondescript to justify every illegal action taken in support of it.

President Obama stated after the murder “assassination” of Osama Bin Laden, “Justice has been served”.

Utter hyperbole, complete hypocrisy and total nonsense.  When they come for you, under the guise of fighting the “war on terror” then you, all of you, will fully understand the folly of support for a false concept that puts everyone at risk in a fascist world.

I wanted to comment on this subject but, it’s just so
crazy. Everything is so crazy now. I live in New
Hampshire, last Sunday there was a story in the local
paper; the town of Keene NH had just accepted a DHS
grant to be given an armored personnel carrier. This
little NH town, has a two hundred and eighty six
thousand dollar armored personnel carrier. It’s to help
Keene NH fight the never ending, global war on terror.
Keene NH, battleground in the global war on terror——-
—-crazy!

Yet another reason to get rid of Obama.

By vector56, March 7 at 2:28 am

I read with interest your debate with our resident neocon, HeteroGRYMchromatic. I think that his increasingly radical diatribes make such responses unnecessary as he is doing a fine job of discrediting himself.

Once I swore an oath to defend the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic.

I wonder if Holder is aware that he is the one they were talking about as a domestic enemy of the constitution.

“the 9/11 attacks killed more Americans than the
attack on Pearl Harbor, vec and it was not the first
attack from Al Qaeda and there wasn’t a reason in
hell to think that it would be the last.”

heterochromatic;

I have notice you seem to repeat the phrase “Killed more Americans” a lot? It seems to imply that a dead American is some how more tragic than any other dead human being somewhere else in the world?  A kinda if White Supremacy that replaces race with Nationalism.

Odds are there are many more in this country who agree with you and your philosophy of “unlimited and unending” retaliation murder (Hatfield-McCoy); this may go on for generations.

We will never leave their lands until every drop of oil is drained from the ground. Generational slaughter of young Muslim men will become a carrier choice for young red blooded Americans yet unborn. The military will fill the vacuum exporting our industrial base created. Now that Gays along with Hispanics and Black can share in the blood soaked “opportunities” in the Middle East what we do now shall set the pattern for the foreseeable future.

When the oil is gone we will leave their lands. Stop pretending all of this blood shed is about anything else but their oil!

vec——I understand what you’re saying, but it’s just
not a good parallel.

These weren’t 19 people who were acting alone or on a
whim. they were sent here and they were trained
abroad and then trained here to do just what they did
and to do it when ordered.
they were part of a very large number of people and
Al Qaeda was operating training camps in Afghanistan
that had turned out thousands of folks all dedicated
to killing whomever the leadership wanted killed.
——

the 9/11 attacks killed more Americans than the
attack on Pearl Harbor, vec, and it was not the first
attack from Al Qaeda and there wasn’t a reason in
hell to think that it would be the last.

vec——I understand what you’re saying, but it’s just
not a good parallel.

These weren’t 19 people who were acting alone or on a
whim. they were sent here and they were trained
abroad and then trained here to do just what they did
and to do it when ordered.
they were part of a very large number of people and
Al Qaeda was operating training camps in Afghanistan
that had turned out thousands of folks all dedicated
to killing whomever the leadership wanted killed.
——

the 9/11 attacks killed more Americans than the
attack on Pearl Harbor, vec and it was not the first
attack from Al Qaeda and there wasn’t a reason in
hell to think that it would be the last.

prisnersdilema; I share your sense of hopelessness.

“nor
have we wantonly slaughtered great numbers going
after Al Qaeda and affiliates across the world. “

Consider this hypothetical ssituation; 19 remembers of an organization, lets say Louis Farrakhan’s Nation of Islam (Black Muslims) go nuts and drive a Bus loaded with C4 into a rich White country club killing 300 upper middle class club members. We send out Seal Team 6 to put a bullet in Farrakhan’s head, kill his off Spring like we did Sadam and Anwar al-Awlaki (16 year old son) and systematically assassinate by drone or special forces every last member of the Nation of Islam in America.

Congress in this scenario has given the President a “blank check”; like Bond, a “license to kill!” So, why stop at exterminating all of the Black Muslims; Rev. Jeremiah Wright hung out with Farrakhan (guilt by association), and he did say, “god Dam America!”
So, lets send drone to his home at the dinner hour when he is eating a meal with his family. Boom! Don’t you just love that “collateral damage?”

Any one who has ever donated money to the nation if Islam we can lock up as “Terrorist sympathizers”. Any one who speaks out in defense of the Black Muslims can become a legitimate target like al-Awlaki. The best part is we get to kill them all!

You see this is what we have agreed to do to al-Qaeda without blinking an eye. We speak openly of murdering every last person who is loosely affiliated with the group or anyone who tries to present their point of view. We don’t murder neo-Nazis on sight; yet you still claim that racism plays no part in the unchecked slaughter of countless little Brown Muslim men?

Its a very sad Vector, that this country has butcherd so many people. What is even
sadder is that so many people don’t even notice.

vec——- believe me that the Iraq war didn’t have
shit to do with 9/11 or the proper response to those
attacks and the invasion of Iraq was NOT authorized
by the AUMF.

and also believe that I don’t defend the Iraq
invasion and see it as a criminal stain on this
country…...

———-

the invasion of Afghanistan followed the attacks and
was a proper military response and we sure as hell
didn’t kill vast numbers of people there .... nor
have we wantonly slaughtered great numbers going
after Al Qaeda and affiliates across the world.

heterochromatic; just when I was starting to think that you might be something more than a blood thirsty Goon, you make a liar out of me.

“congress tells president to find
the people that KILLED a couple thousand Americans
and go make war on them… and make sure that they
can’t do that sort of thing any more….”

Since 9/11 our government has killed close to 2 million human beings! Is that enough for you? For the 3,000, we took 2 million!  Is there no limit in your mind to the “blank check” given to our “special Forces and Seal Team 6. About now, these poor young red blooded American must be soaked in blood?

Like Republican who are pro life, yet support Capital punishment and War, you seem to be “selective” as to what human life you value.

You speak of “American lives” as if they held more value than any other human life. You are an “embarrassment to nature!”

Try to see beyond yourself for a moment…killing of American citizens is unlawful. Denial
of due process is unconstitutional.

When drone attacks were ordered that killed that Islamic writer and his 16 year old son
that was murder. It was an unlawful order.

That has nothing to do with terrorists who alegedly did 911. If that was true then why did
we use Al Caeda our sworn enemy in Syria and Libia? If congress indeed identified Al
Caeda as the enemy then how can we use them, and legitimize them?

So we find the people who killed a few thousand Americans and we befriend them, turn
them into military assests. 

It only proves that you can believe two diametrically opposed facts as true. That all you
need is an hysterical reaction, to validate your beliefs. The stronger your reaction the
more valid your beliefs. Which makes you just another reactionary, without a clear
reason or thought to be found swirling among the delusions in your head.

In fact thats all you do here react, react, react, but those reactions mean nothing outside
of yourself.

pris-not quite——congress tells president to find
the people that KILLED a couple thousand Americans
and go make war on them… and make sure that they
can’t do that sort of thing any more….

this is a very good thing and is what governments are
supposed to do…..

——

talk shit about congress authorizing killing of
peaceful people (and why or how they could) when it
happened and don’t try to drag into a set of facts
and circumstances to which it doesn’t belong….

why not ask “what happened when congress authorizes
the president to burn the crops and slaughter all the
goats”

it’s something to think about, but not to confuse
with the AUMF

lets see now, congress identifies people plotting to kill American citizens, so therefore it
o.k’s their death.

Then what happens when its congress that plots to kill American citizens who are non
combatants?

What happens when, politicians order the military to violate the military code of conduct?

They have a duty to disobey, because those orders are unlawful. Killing American
citizens, is an unlawful order.  At some point if we survive the madness created by the
one per centers to establish a totalitarian regime, free of constitutional rights, there will
be war crimes trials.

vec——-“shall we apply this to another who joined the the “Hitler Youth” at age
16?
I refer to Pope Benedict XVI who was a real life NAZI.”

anybody affiliated with and fighting for the Germans, including US citizens,
during the time when the US was in military conflict with Germany was duly
subject to military action from our armed forces.

had Benedict been fighting he was fair game…...had he been in the middle of a
bunch of German fighters when we attacked them, then no blame would attach
to us if he should die in the attack.

moonie—- you stop popping out undigested birdseed and print out the US govt’s
employment contract hiring Al Qaeda and the salary disbursements for there
associates and I’ll thank you.

ardee——due process is something for which I’ve great respect and affection  
.... and I was taught a bit about it.  perhaps you’ll note that a person engaged in
attempting to kill American citizens and a member of a group which the Congress
has publicly and formally authorized the govt to conduct military operations
against should expert to be duly processed

The US Govt.: Financial supporter and purveyor of state sponsored global terrorism!

Ah, but Hettie, Al Qaeda was founded and continues to be funded by the US government.

You shoulda been so lucky.  I bet they are paid more than you are—of course that may include such fringies as bulletproof vests, Ak-47s and combat pay….

posted in wrong forum:
when I hear AIPAC and AG Holder claim that “terrorism is a new threat and needs new laws to confront it”, I’m hearing the echoes that ‘Jesus was a new threat to the established order (a terrorist) and deserved crucifixion’. AG Holder is just a new pharisee in high places, bereft of 2,000 years of human progress.

These fools actually believe that drones are a force for good. We’re being led further into the desert.

So then how do we explain the fact that we have used Al Caeda in Libyia, and Syria?

Doesn’t that mean in effect that we support them and have joined Al Caeda? What
about 911?

Murders always have ways to jusify their crimes. This is really just about attempting to
excuse our government for its attrocities, and becquse it has lost control of its killing
machine.

It views death as the easy way out. Something it shares with the monsters of many
brutal regimes throughout history including Al Caeda.

All emotional arguments aside; Eric Holder is a fraud. Holder claims that the constitution guarantees US citizens “due process”, not “judicial process”. Bull shit argument in my opinion, but let us assume he is on to something. If al Awlaki was guaranteed “due process” by the constitution of the United States, then the burden of proof should fall on the shoulders of those who took his life to show that he and his son received due process. This “right” should trump “state secrets” or another gimmicks put in place to avoid transparency.

Bottom line is we on the left did not kill 3 American citizens without a trial; the burned to prove that their killings did not violate the constitution rest on Attorney General Eric Holde’s shoulders.

“little kids that meet their death because
their parents take them into terrorists camps deserve
more sympathy that a 16 year old who decides to join
up. “

heterochromatic comment above; shall we apply this to another who joined the the “Hitler Youth” at age 16?
I refer to Pope Benedict XVI who was a real life NAZI.

As one would anticipate, “bullies” only pursue the weak; when was the last time AIPAC pointed out that the Pope was a NAZI, or went after him politically?
The Catholic Church would crush them (AIPAC) like a bug!

“spend a little more of my sympathy for
people who don’t believe in the necessity of killing
people with differing religious viewpoints and for
those who don’t believe that their god requires
slaying those who oppose the imposition of
fundamentalist Islamic regimes.”

This is another lie pushed by the ones who promote never ending war. The idea that “they” want to kill us because we won’t convert to Islam. Kinda sounds like the “they hate us for our freedom argument”. What heterochromatic and his ilk won’t admit is that odds are if we pulled out of “their” lands, they would leave us alone. It is not about Religion, or “freedom”, it is about their OIL!

Lastly, al Awlaki’s 16 year son being killed in a “terrorist” camp ; show me the evidence? Yes, I forgot, it is all “classified”. When Crazy Horse 18 gunned down 15 people in cold blood (Collateral Murder) one of the pilots said after shooting two kids in a van “he should not have brought his kids to a battle!” At the time the father of those two kids was driving them to school when he spotted the wounded Reuters reporter (they had shot and hovered over waiting to finish off). The “Good Samaritan” stopped to help a dieing man, and had his life and the lives of his children almost taken by these monsters in the air! When you turn their country and the world into a battle field for a never ending war no one is safe!

hetero, you and others like you are living proof that the “terrorists” have already won. Bin Laden told an interviewer back in 1999 that he didn’t need to wage war on the west, all he needed was to slap them, and then watch as they abandoned all of their “civilized” ways and turned against their rule of law in search of ghosts.

Judging by messir Holders comments, I’d say he’s been pretty damn successful.

By heterochromatic, March 5 at 8:04 pm Link to this comment

I’m short of sympathy for people joining Al
Qaeda….

You are certainly short of something. Due process is not an ambiguous concept, excepting perhaps in the minds of neocons like you.

This is the problem with declaring war on a tactic. Make no mistake, this was done for a
reason by the Bush administration and the Obama administration has continued (even if
they don’t call it a war on terror anymore). Having the country at war means it’s easier to
ignore the proper judicial process. 9/11 didn’t have to “change everything” if we didn’t
allow it to.

I’m short of sympathy for people joining Al
Qaeda….spend a little more of my sympathy for
people who don’t believe in the necessity of killing
people with differing religious viewpoints and for
those who don’t believe that their god requires
slaying those who oppose the imposition of
fundamentalist Islamic regimes.

would have been nice if his father hadn’t led him
into darkness or if he had made a better choice, but
even the little kids that meet their death because
their parents take them into terrorists camps deserve
more sympathy that a 16 year old who decides to join
up.

heterchromatic:  Well, just sort of out of human sympathy or something like that?  Or would that be asking too much?

vec—- why should anyone mention the son?  is there any
evidence that he was specifically targeted?
didn’t he just get killed by an attack on an Al Qaeda
encampment where he was a junior member?

we in the US get to determine our legal definition of
terrorist, P.H.

they shudda learned you that in sckool.

Strange how al Awlaki’s 16 year old son is rare mention or the other fellow who was a US citizen?

Bottom line is this; it is open season on Muslim/Arab men! If this was being done to any other group (Jews, Blacks, Gays…) there would be outrage! Because of 9/11, Muslims are now considered expendable.

Also, anyone who knows anything about American history should realize that we have always been a nation of “men” and not law.

Pretty sleazy, i.e. testimony from someone else under suspicion, with no details about under what circumstances that “evidence” was received—coercion or otherwise?  And no mention of the accused’s young son being also killed—for what? 
  Scare plus terror causes error? 
  And what about heresay?
“Holder said Abdulmutallab told the FBI of al Awlaki’s specific instructions to wait until the airplane was over the United States before detonating the bomb.”
  Evidence has now become “some theoretical end stage” for which “the president” is not obliged to wait.???

Who’s gets to determine which group is terrorist or not?

http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2012/02/29/us-preventing-interpol-arresting-12-mko-terrorists-87662/

One mans terrorist is anothers freedom fighter and vice versa.

“Let us here no more of confidence in man, but let him be bound by the chains of the constitution”.

I guess now that we have wiped our asses with the bill of rights, I guess its okay to take a big dump on the steps of Montecello.